How to use this Page

OK, this is exciting To be critiqued by John would be a very cool thing. Of course, the way things are going, I don’t know if I can squeeze it in (though I did get an idea for it! lol). I’m sure you’ll get some good first pages!

I just joined SCBWI, and this prompt looks so interesting. I’ll have to get to work!

Kristin, just like a real-life outing, the journey is often times more interesting than the final destination. As such, I only draw up the 'road map' after my 3rd or 4th revision, concentrating on interesting side trips and other characters I meet along the way (as long as they are important to the plot).
Love the blog, keep it coming. Quite a few of us out there gather in as much info as you have to offer.
Thanks again,
J.W.

Great tip. To me it's all about the story, so I mull the story arc over a lot before beginning. I don't write the storyline out though. It's like starting out on a East to West cross-country road trip without a AAA triptych. But I know where I'm trying to get in the end. What happens on the journey is another thing. I get sidetracked by an intriguing little town off the interstate, or decide to bypass the Grand Canyon. After that, all bets are off.

I'm more favorable to Discovery Writer. I do this less now than a few years ago. It used to be I'd write wherever my characters took me and more than once ended up in a Doomed World where it was absolutely impossible to give a satisfactory end to the book. Since then I tend to mull over where it's going and have a general idea where I want to take it (though this too often changes).
The roadmap is a good way to make sure you don't get too far off track, though as Kristin said at least one revision should be given so you don't lose the creative vibe.

Both? Neither? More like an outliner who then trashes her outline every ten minutes and then writes the story as it should be written, causing another outline to be 'written.' There's always an outline in my head (I killed too many trees trying to write them out!), but it's constantly under revision as the story shifts.

So I guess that makes me panster with delusions of plotting.

I am an extreme panster (maybe I can get a Mountain Dew sport commercial for "extreme pansting?" ;)).

I grab some amazing characters, then we take off and run. I do get frustrated sometimes with the amount of re-writing involved in my style, but at the same time, so many wonderful things have happened in my stories that I never could have planned (ok, not so wonderful for my characters, but good to read ;)).

I think I will always be this way, as for me the joy is in the journey- I figure if I can't wait to see what happens next, hopefully the reader can't wait either.

That being said- a road map would be a VERY helpful thing during the re-write/editing process.

I'm an outliner and I do the road map at least 2x. Outlining is the first - I tweak it as I write the first draft. The second is what I call a story revision. I go through and do as you suggest; ask what each scene does for the story/characters and fill in blank spots and take out what isn't working.
Then I write draft 1.5. That's the draft I revise (times whatever it takes) and polish.
great advice.

I'm a pantser that writes everything by hand for the first draft. Once that's done, I set up a road-map before starting the rewrite, converting the story to a computer-read format.

The reason why I did this: it's the only way I can improve the story I'd written. Without the map, I'd just come up with more versions similar to the original, but not the same, so there wouldn't be an improvement.

Pantser, as far as I know. :) Still learning. But it is incredibly useful to make the roadmap once the book is 'done'. It helps, not just with subsequent drafts, but with writing the dreaded query letter and synopsis. Holy cow. I don't know how I would have written an intelligent summary without it.

Yup, I'm definitely a panster then. Thanks for helping me to clear that up :)

I've tried pantsing and tried outlining bur found that a nice middle ground works best for me. A nice skeleton to give me a little bit of direction but nothing tight and restraining because I know my characters may have a few detours in mind.

Pantser for sure. Then after first draft I tread more carefully, although sometimes even the best plans need alterations. I'm glad there's a name for it ^.^

Pantster, as in fly-by-the-seat-of. I get it--I was wondering what the 'ell a panster was.

I'm a pantser, but I'm going to try to have at least a vague outline for my next novel. It kills me to cut out all the great scenes my characters force me to write. Better if I don't write them in the first place.

I'm some weird hybrid, but I'm learning I lean towards pantster. I tried to force a recent wip to form from outline, and it's ruined the story for me. But I tend to see the plot coming as I get to know my characters. When I do, I write with more purpose.

I agree with Daisy - I'm some odd combination of the two. I usually just write down an outline of scenes or basic points, look for flaws and then proceed to write. My biggest problem comes when I try to outline every detail of the story. That does suck all of the creativity out of me!

If I'm writing for the pure fun of it, I'm a panster. If I'm writing with the intention to share my work with the wider world - whether published as a book or just uploaded to a random internet site - then I'll outline the narrative. Is that pretty standard or...?

I started as a pantser and it took years to finish a first draft. Then I expanded a novella into a novel in a crazy two weeks and developed an "outline" process that worked for me without realizing it.

It wasn't until a couple years ago when I realized that what I called an outline was a very rough first draft written often out of order in Excel that I then sorted, cleaned up, and expanded into my "first draft." What this, and teaching other writers, has taught me is that people are either drawn to or repelled by the word outline, but whether they organize things in their heads as they write or map it out into plot, character, emotion, etc. sections, writers find ways to gain an understanding of the shape of their novel. And yes, some do it before, some after, some during, but I see developing the ability to create this road map as an important step in the journey to a consistently productive writer.

Yes. Exactly! I've been saying that to my plotter friends who shake their heads at my denial of their creative organized genius.

But I'm not denying their genius, just saying it doesn't work for me. I've done a synopsis, outline, etc. thinking it was how "real writers" do it. But those stories, they haven't been written.

I have a novel right now, for a small press I've done shorts for, which I'm working on. I had to write a synopsis, answer questions from the editorial team, and by then? I was bored with the story. Lost my voice had to put the synopsis away and JUST WRITE. Now I'm 55k into it. It's going much better. I'll go through in the revision and make sure I did what's needed to be done according to the approved synopsis, but until then... What synopsis? LOL

Thanks again!!

I write until I get completely and utterly stuck, then I revise and outline, so I guess that means I'm a panster, though I'm delving into the world of outlining first now that I'm writing my first "official" outline. I can see where it will make writing the book easier, but I'm not sure I'll be able to do it if I haven't gotten some of the story down first. Often times, I don't know where the story is going until my characters tell me.

That's really good advice. I'm a big fan of Save the Cat.

I am a total outliner. I write traditional puzzle cozies, and can't imagine not having a full scene-by-scene outline with estimated word count and clue plantings. When I count the scenes and have an estimated word count of 60,000 I'll start my draft. Inevitably I'll revise it about half way through, usually to do what another commenter said about stabilizing chapters, usually a few "sequels" that need to be added in order for the reader to know how the main character is feeling. My estimates are fairly accurate. I'm writing book three in my series this way, and can do up to 2,500 words a day when I'm drafting. Then when the draft is done I start examining the internal scene structure to make sure it works, has some kind of conflict, and adds to the overall arc.

I learned the hard way that I can't let myself go too far without a road map. Though pansting is fun for the first couple chapters, it gets progressively more difficult for me to keep writing without having my world, characters, and plot line set up as a guide. I forget things, ramble, or find that all I'm doing is writing scenes, not a story. With the outline in place, I can start dropping hints early on, revealing backstory and whatnot naturally instead of all at once when I realize I need it.

At the same time, I don't think a writer should be afraid to deviate from the outline if they end up writing things that don't feel right. I've seen friends get some awful blocks from that.

Oh I was a panster with my first novel and I zipped right through it. I'm on my second and I've got outlines, maps, etc and it's taking me forever. I don't even want to mention the serious block I have with this story. A part of me wants the story to write itself so I'm throwing away the map for now. That may change as the story progresses.

Pants-ed it all the way through my first novel, but plotted my second (which I'm currently working on) and I think I'm in love with drawing the road map first!

A bit of both, so far. I start with an outline, and I have to know the ending, but I discover a great deal as I write the first draft, even without deviating much from the outline.

On the current story, I did a road map between the first and second drafts, and while writing the second draft, I'm trying filling out a detailed spreadsheet keeping track of the different characters so I can follow their arcs for the final polishing draft.

I'm a middle-of-the-roadster. With my first novel, I outlined extensively. Writing it turned out to be grueling and the end product was lifeless. Technically fine, but not interesting even for me. With my second novel I started writing with only a basic idea of where I wanted to go and what I wanted to say. Mostly I needed to prove I could actually write a novel with small kids in the house. Loved the process and the end product, but when I workshopped it I got feedback that not enough happens. I needed to raise the stakes. Now I'm starting a third novel with the same characters, setting etc of my second novel and I've put more thought into the skeleton of the plot in advance. Here's hoping the third time is the charm!

I'm sensing a wonderful workshop idea there!

As I read your post I was thinking, 'And? How do I do this?!!'

Great post and I hope you do a workshop of it :). Have a great time at RT!

YES! I a workshop or at the very least some kind of "how to" blog post please.

As an unpublished author I value any opportunity to see my plot with new eyes and to learn a new skill that will aid my writing :)

When I did a rewrite on a story I really loved but that needed major work I created an outline for it before beginning on a new document. I used a very basic plot arc and then expanded it accordingly. (I liked using the numbered list function on Microsoft Word where it's easy to add things before and after and have different levels.) It helped so much for staying focused on the plot. Also helpful was planning a preliminary one-sentence pitch that got to the heart of my conflict so I could make sure it all went back to that.

Workshop! Yes!

Workshop = win. In the meantime, I recommend STORY ENGINEERING, by Larry Brooks. If I ever see publication or sell a spec script, it will be thanks to that book teaching me to see and love the structure.

I think a lot of problems we'd find in a manuscript could be eliminated by making a detailed plan and thinking about the pace and story arcs before we actually start the writing. Conducting your idea at the end would be like double checking, so even better again! Definitely a good idea, thanks for sharing :)

I would take that workshop.

This is something I'm trying to learn to do, but I find myself stumbling. I think it's a fantastic idea though to see how an entire finished story stacks up in a brief overview.

I do that!! So excited to know I'm on the right track. Of course, I'm not sure that I'm doing it WELL...

Wonderful idea, and so many of us can utilize that same principle toward our novel's summary. Thank you!

I write from an outline to make sure I am covering all the important parts of the plot and foreshadowing appropriately. Of course things change a little as rewriting occurs. What I find is that I need more in what I call "bridging chapters" than I expect. A bridging chapter for me is one that has internal conflict and ties together the heavy action in the external conflict chapters. They set the stage, describing the world, and revealing the characters. These chapters are chock full of information but sometimes bog the story down too much. The outline helps me find ways to keep up the pace or even redistribute the information in my "bridging chapters"

I had a rejection that commented on pacing which spurred me to create a roadmap. I write the scene, the GMC of it, and lay it all out. It's easier to manipulate when everything is right there in front of you.

Here's another vote for the workshop. I think I made a roadmap when I wrote my synopsis, but I'm sure it was not as thorough as it could have been.

I actually already do this as a writer, and I've really enjoyed the results. It lets me so how the chapter needs to work in relationship to everything else. What is ultimately it's most important facet? What could be trimmed? It's also helped me when I occasionally re-arrange pieces to re-pace the work.

I agree with Bonnee--it seems like it'd be a good double-check at the end if you are (or are working with) a writer who creates an extensive outline at the beginning. (I sure do.) It'd be interesting and very useful to compare how one planned the story and how the story turned out, and let you more easily determine how scenes relate to each other, whether all the subplots have been carried through to conclusion, and so on. A workshop would be nice!

I do this as well, between the first and second draft. Since I'm a pantser, I often end up with scenes that are great but in the wrong place. So the first thing I do with a rough draft is skim over it and make a detailed outline of all the important things.

Then I can edit the outline for structural problems. I can see where things need to be added or moved or taken away. Gives me a road map for the whole second draft.

I like to do a plot board after the first draft. I use a giant posterboard for each act and have a grid for each scene. Then I use colored post-its to indicate plot points, turning points, romantic turning points, and other important elements. For example, with a mystery, you could a clue post-it to note where in the story the different clues fall.

Then I step back and look at it. If I see a big gap in a certain color, I know that something is missing. It also helps me ensure that each scene has at least two purposes.

It sounds like what I do with my books. After I've written the first draft and edited it a time or three for the major stuff I know in my head is there, I create a detailed outline for the book. Scene by scene and chapter by chapter I break it down, outlining characters, locations and events. Then I use that for the next revision because it just shows the skeleton without all the flesh. So helpful. The first time I did this, I ended up creating a new outline after I'd revised a couple more times to work off of since there were some major changes.

I recently did this on a big, white poster board. A bit primitive, yes, but it helps me to see the story all at once when I'm revising. I had a one-line summary for each chapter. If I need to move chapters around, it's much easier for me to identify a chapter by that one line rather than scrolling through the entire document on my computer, looking for a certain section. It also helps me when it comes time to revise my synopsis.

I would love to know how to do this. I find it very hard to outline before I began writing, but maybe if I knew the best way to get it started...

http://writeyourownworld.blogspot.com

I'm learning the joys (insert sarcasm) of outlining. While the process is enough to make me want to scream, I am seeing where my story is definitely going (and where it's coming from). I think it is ultimately going to be very helpful in the final draft. It already showed me one area of the book that was simply there because it was a neat scene idea, not because it adds anything to the story. Yeah, that scene goes in the "I hope a situation comes up where it's useful one day" pile. *sigh*

I desperately needed to read this!

I haven't been able to finish anything in years and just finished a new ms over the weekend. I'm having trouble contemplating how to even tackle it. Thanks for sharing an editing strategy!

-Lera

What's the difference between this kind of an outline, and a synopsis?
Is it just because the outline is segmented per chapter?