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STATUS: The appointment schedule is firming up! Get ready for some posts on what editors will be looking for in 2012.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? THIS IS IT by Kenny Loggins
It's pretty simple. We agents go to conferences and really drive home the fact that writers need to master their craft. Wow us with masterfully written opening pages. Stop butchering the English language.
Then a work comes along and blows that advice out of the water.
Readers have called 50 Shades of Grey any number of things: campy, fun, spirited, hilarious, worth the money, a fast read.
But well written has not been one of them.
So what do we say when a novel inexplicably becomes wildly popular, sells like crazy, and part of the cultural lexicon?
You got me. Maybe I can say this is a one-in-a-million happenstance of all stars aligning.
But I can say it does make our jobs harder. There will be any number of writers who will be convinced they can do same. Gosh I hope my query inbox doesn't become inundated. No matter what 50 Shades is, I would not have been the agent to spot its "genius."
Plain and simple.
67 Comments on Why 50 Shades of Grey Makes Agent Lives Harder, last added: 5/14/2012
Don't you think one reason for that book's success is that the average reader is not really that discriminating about things like style or even grammar? When a writer "hones his craft," it's at least partly because he has to get his work past an editor, and editors have more discerning taste than the average reader. That's one reason they're editors.
And for this, I am happier than I can express while typing on a smart phone. I don't care how campy, or whatever, a story is. If the writing is as bad as it is in that book, I can't get past it. I want to take a red pen and mark the crap out of it, and I'm not even an editor.
Glad to know there is still sanity in the publishing/ agent world. Thank you.
I actually like that, in theory at least. It's punk rock publishing: No skill, no talent, no ability, just three chords and a message that resonates with your audience. And that's all you need, really: the ability to speak to your audience. Lack of musicianship is not only not a problem, but can be parlayed into a selling point: it's proof of your authenticity.
The thing to keep in mind is that this does not diminish the value of good craftsmanship. During the era of punk, we still had traditional rock and pop bands that succeeded in selling records. We also had people who could make themselves heard with less. One does not negate the value of the other. Is it for everyone? No. But it's a way to get noticed. -LupLun Shooting for the Moon
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2012 6:51:00 PM
I won't lie, it's an odd message for those of us wanting to go into the industry. It's like, I obsess over style, grammar, pacing, prose, structure, but should I? I may be stylistically proud of a book in the end, but will it sell? Have I been wasting my time obsessing over something that might become 'old fashioned'? Should I put the grammar books down and crack open some Twilight or pull a Cassandra Claire and run a fanfiction piece through search and replace and call it a day? This is a very odd time for writing, a very odd time indeed. Agents, editors, books and history all tell us one thing, but the bestseller list goes out of its way to tell us the exact opposite. It's not discouraging, it's more confusing.
For some people junk is what they want all the time. For others, junk is an occasional guilty indulgence. For still others, they only try the junk once. Add all those people together and that is a lot of Twinkies.
Thing is - the market won't withstand 100s of types of Twinkies. And it is difficult to pin down exactly WHAT makes a Twinkie appealing anyway - except its vague resemblance to cake which you already love.
Editors who are looking for the 'next' 50 Shades are looking for the 'next' Twinkie.
Good luck.
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2012 7:34:00 PM
It's not that hard to explain if you know why the book took off in the first place. Fans of the fanfiction the writer wrote for Twilight pushed the book to their friends. If not for the established fanbase and the idea that the main characters were actually Bella and Edward (shh... don't tell, it's a dirty little secret, wink, wink) it never would have been a success at all.
People who first bought 50 Shades, weren't buying 50 Shades at all. They were buying Twilight porn. They passed the book around to others, creating hype, and then others bought the book because of the hype.
I am glad someone else is in agreement with this one. I posted on this one and was suddenly bombarded by people thinking this was a piece of great writing. Personally it scares me, if they think this was good writing, what do you think their writing will be. I, like you would not have been an agent to have seen what the "genius" was in that book.
I haven't read it, but the success of well-written novels makes me want to be a better writer.
And as much as this might make me sound bitter, the success of "not well written" novels makes me bang my head into my keyboard.
BUT
I'm wondering if this is part of the deal. People like it for the reason that it's bad. That they feel they could do better, if they had the time and could be bothered? It's not so well written that people feel threatened?
I don't know.
What the heck, I'll bang my head on the keyboard and see if I feel better.
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2012 8:13:00 PM
It's not consistently good writing (though it isn't consistently bad either) -- but it is good storytelling.
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2012 8:23:00 PM
It's accessible literature that doesn't speak down to the reader. Everyone I've spoken to who has read the stories either as fanfic or as "original" fiction agree that it's not mentally engaging but it grabs them emotionally, the characters grab you by the left nipple clamp and drag you along for the ride.
Just like with the people in our lives, if you love something enough you can see beyond the scars, scabs and other imperfections.
The twinkie post is spot on, as was the post about the Twilight fan base. The trilogy is an anomoly, and I don't think it's because the average reader can't tell good writing from bad. As much as I cringe while reading (and I am reading it), there are other parts I enjoy. The author has managed to make me care about these characters.
I have no interest in reading this "hot" book, so I totally can relate to how you feel. I prefer women's fiction with intelligence. If I want a 50 Shades... vibe I'll read Penthouse Letters. ;-)
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2012 9:01:00 PM
50 Shades of Grey is not my cup of tea. I can't get past the horrific prose to enjoy the story.
But worse than the author's repetitive descriptions, cardboard characters, and use of the term "inner goddess", are the people who say, "If this can become a bestseller, I should write a book". Or worse, "If this is a bestseller, why can't you even get an agent?" (I've heard that second one twice. Makes me want to beat my head against a wall).
I don't know why this book has been successful. I'm going to agree with the previous poster who talked about the Twilight fanbase and hype.
With the rise of the Kindle, there was always going to be a break out "mommy porn" bestseller. In my opinion, this was the wrong book being hyped up at the right time.
That's interesting. I haven't really paid much attention to the reviews, because I haven't paid the book. But I just assumed that it was well-written because it was a best-seller. On the other hand, I've read plenty of popular books that I didn't like very much.
Dittoing "twinkies" and "Twilight porn" and "breakout mommy porn bestseller" comments above. Those are all spot-on.
FWIW, as a real book, it's pretty bad. As a sexy fanfic, it's pretty good. And a lot of people read sexy fanfics that are a whole lot (a WHOLE LOT) worse and enjoy them.
I'm still "wtf"ing that a fanfic is a NYT best-seller, but then again, it's not like it's the first time a really terrible book has hit it big. Da Vinci Code, anyone? I have a book called Killer Crabs that was apparently a best-seller in the 70s. I've never read it all the way through, but when I feel down on myself I crack open a few pages and it makes me smile.
I'm kind of hoping the slush pile floods with 50 Shades clones. Then it'll be that much easier to discard them and see the really good queries ;)
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2012 11:08:00 PM
The thing is, as a fanfic reader, knowing this story was originally fanfic, I find it a little hilarious. Because there are at least hundreds, probably thousands or more, stories of similar content, quality, and length across various fandoms--all available for free, written and read for the pure enjoyment of it. There's absolutely no need to pay money for this kind of story.
Honestly, I bet a lot of the reason it's popular is because it started as fanfic. Posted first as fanfic for Twilight, rode Twilight's coattails to gain an audience, then published with an already established fanbase who's internet-savvy and likely posted early rave reviews. I imagine that had a lot to do with it, because it certainly doesn't seem like it would have been successful if it had come out of the gate as an original novel.
People may notice and get excited about shooting stars, but those burn out and are completely forgotten. People may not pay much attention to the stars, but they've been burning for billions of years.
I work in a library, and I have no interest in reading 50 Shades (yet), but I will occasionally flip to a random page if a copy passes through my hands as I put it up on the hold shelf. It may actually be the first book I've ever encountered that falls into the "so bad it's good" category. It's the Birdemic of books.
The page I remember that made me snort ran something along the lines of, "I knew Dr. Greene was curious about my relationship with Mr. Grey, but I doubted she could possibly imagine his RED ROOM OF PAIN, or what went on between us there." (Emphasis mine.)
I bet she could if you tried her. She is a doctor, after all.
I haven't read it but it makes me cringe to hear libraries are pulling it off shelves. If I choose to read it, the library is where I'd go because I wouldn't want to drop a dime. And libraries are not supposed to censure, even in Florida and Georgia.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 5:44:00 AM
I read 50 Shades when it was a fan fic at the urging of my sister, who is, and I'm loathe to admit this, addicted to the Twilight saga and reads a huge amount of fan fiction. I'm a writer and after I read the first few pages of Ms. James story, I commented that the writing was horrific. My sister begged me to keep reading, saying that the writing got better. Um, no, it really didn't, but here's why I think it's such a success-the author took the Edward and Bella characters to a whole new level. What Stephenie Meyer wouldn't do with the characters, E.L. James did, and for those women who became obsessed with Edward, this was just the perfect thing for them. Yes, the writing is awful, and yes, as a writer who is trying to be published and doing everything 'right' to make that happen, the fact that this author got a seven figure deal for these books is just plain disheartening.
I agree wholeheartedly. If you are a real writer, you are SUPPOSED to care about things like grammar and punctuation. Unless you are doing it on purpose like e.e. cummings, there is no excuse for shoddy grammar. I agree that telling a good story is more important than grammar overall, but I think being lazy about grammar just makes you a hack. I'm curious to read the book but I don't want to support it by buying it. People may be able to overlook the problems as they get into the story, but why should they have to? Get an editor and show some respect for the craft!
Like a lot of writers, I can't help but be impressed when a self-published book takes off because it just shows that nobody really knows what will sell. Right now I'm being told that my gay-themed book won't sell because the audience is too small (as if only gay people would read it...I'm not gay and I wrote it!) I will probably self-publish it eventually because I am really passionate about the story. If it sells 10 copies, that's better than nothing. But I'm going to learn how to self-publish, hire an editor, and do it RIGHT because I care about my craft.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 6:56:00 AM
What exactly has changed since time immemorial? Isn't The Davinci Code the best selling novel of all-time? there have always been, and always will be, literary geniuses and mass-market bestsellers. there is a story well-written and a story well-told. Sometimes they converge, sometimes they don't.
It's all a matter of taste and unfortunately, the public's taste is growing crasser every day.
As far as the cultural acceptance of poor literature, I personally blame the American education system.
But it comes right back to what people want and it's really not so surprising that what they want is publically displayed sex.
I guess that makes the second culprit in the case Hollywood.
And who has been in charge of the American educational system and of Hollywood for DECADES?
Liberals.
Mags said, on 5/11/2012 7:13:00 AM
Don't overthink it. As others have said--the initial success was from the Twilight fans and now it's expanded via word of mouth into the mommy porn group (which has some crossover with Twilight).
But I think Kristin's real concern is that she's now going to see 50 shades of imitators (and I fully expect publishers to publish imitators). I feel sorry for the slush pile readers!
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 7:19:00 AM
I wonder, in 50 years will our grandchildren be singing its praises? The Great Gatsby is a classic now, but it's riddled with pages and pages of dialog that honestly is very difficult to follow. Yet, my rather intelligent professor in college explained that the vague-ness and all of the things left out of the story were part of what made it great and is an extension of the period.
IMO, 50 shades is a product of our time - good or bad.
The story, like several other best sellers, isn’t written well but if you get past the writing sometimes the story can suck you in. Although with this one the first two books were easier to get through then the third. The third jumped a lot in the start, I think it broke several more literary rules then the first two.
All the same a story is all most people need. It does make a writer cringe to know that we pour our hearts out to make our stories look their best and then something else gets published that is ...subpar. Maybe it’s jealousy who knows. All I know is that I want my work to looks it’s best because that is what people will know me by. So yes she got published but she will forever be tainted as the writer with a good story that was poorly written. That does taint any further writing she might do.
That being said i know people are crazed that it was fan fiction. Well maybe it was but it is original enough that if you didn't know it was fan lit you probably wouldn't have made an Edward Bella connection.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 9:02:00 AM
Maybe the devil still makes agreements for 7 years?
I'm not sure this a one-in-a-million instance. Did we all read "Twilight?" I don't know if any one used the moniker "well-written" for that either.
As an aspiring writer it is frustrating that these blockbuster titles are so sub-par from a craft standpoint. Of course, "The Hunger Games" has been an exception to that trend.
Courtney said, on 5/11/2012 9:52:00 AM
I agree with MegS-Twilight was very popular, but well-written it was not. I think some authors are good story tellers, not necessarily good writers and vice versa. If it makes things harder for agents, it certainly has to make things harder for writers who actually come up with original stories. I'm less troubled by the fact that the writing is so poor (which I think universally acknowledged) than the fact that this was FAN FICTION originally.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 10:23:00 AM
Obviously the story resonated with many, many folks, or they wouldn't haven't bought it, told their friends about it, blogged about it, etc, etc.
Complain all you want about the grammar and other such issues with the books. E L James is now very rich because of her books. Doesn't matter how it started. Fanfic, or whatever. She's enjoying her day in the spotlight. As writers, we should all be congratulating our fellow writers on their success -- not browbeating them because you thought their work was sub-par.
Her work isn't going to affect your work. Her books are not going to affect the future of printed works. Not even the saleability of your work. Don't worry about it.
Let's not all forget one specific point: books are not a zero-sum game. Just because consumers are buying up her books doesn't mean that they won't buy yours!
Don't trash her fans. You might loose a fan because of it.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 11:05:00 AM
I saw this at Barnes and Noble and skimmed through a few pages and immediately put it down. Erotica isn't remotely my taste to begin with, and the writing sealed the deal. Then I was at Costco with my mom, turned the corner around the book table and BOOM: 50 Shades of Grey. At Costco?! That's when you know something's blowing up. I'll echo what some others have said: Twilight. Twinkies. Good storytelling does not = good writing. If you look at all of the juggernaut books of the last 15 years you'll find a common theme: good storytelling. Harry Potter, Twilight, Da Vinci Code, Hunger Games, The Help - all written with varying degrees of skill but also with a compelling story and characters people connect to. I think what the success of this book proves is that the public is willing to ignore bad writing if the story is something they're invested in. I know if I were published, though, I'd want to be known for my writing skill AND my storytelling. It's the authors who land in that sweetspot whose books live on the longest.
I think these things just happen. As an aspiring author, this in no way gives me any ideas about not going about things the right way! People should chalk this up to being a fluke. I would never want to have a bestseller that people refer to as "not well written". (Well, I might appreciate the money...but I digress.) If I get published I want to be darn proud of what I put into the world. I think the person that would want to try their hand at this kind of luck would be the same people to write poorly anyway. Maybe not, just my thoughts! :) It makes me think of this quote.
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 11:57:00 AM
There is nothing at all surprising about the success of this. You may love creme brulee or Godiva chocolates, but every once in awhile (and MUCH of the time for the more crass ppl out there), you just want--you guessed it: a twinkie. --though I never much liked twinkies myself. A Hershey bar will do just fine.
I haven't read this novel. But have been seeing a lot of tweets and blog posts about it.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2012 12:26:00 PM
This post (okay, mostly the comments) makes me feel sad and tired as both a reader and a writer. The writing in 50 Shades won't win any prizes, sure, but it was not unreadable despite all the verbal shuddering going on in this thread. In fact, I'd say it was comparable to many, many, many other genre books out there. Yes, the prose is merely serviceable (and that is more than okay for millions of readers, you must realize), but it isn't some garbled, unreadable mess like people are making it out to be. As to the book's success...most people read the book for the story, and the story is pretty gripping. Ms. James spins a good yarn. There was a spark there.
For the record, I'm not some 50 Shades fangirl. I'm not even 100% sure the author's last name is James, haha! Erotic lit is not really my cup of tea. I read the first book, but not the subsequent ones, etc. And when I picked it up, I had no idea it originated as Twilight fanfic. I just thought--hey, this looks like a fun and fluffy and slightly kinky read, I've seen a lot of people raving about it, and I feel like taking a break from heavy literature right now. And you know what, I enjoyed it. It was fluff, some of it was cheesy, some of it was repetitive. Okay. But when everyone starts wailing that THIS IS THE END OF GOOD LITERATURE FOREVA OMG WE ARE DOOMED, or worse, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE UNWASHED MASSES WHO LIKE THIS DRIVEL??, that's when I start to roll my eyes. Are we so out of touch with the world? People enjoy interesting stories. People like something that grabs them, even if it isn't a breathtaking masterpiece of literary genius. Let's not be hipster snobs here and pretend we can't comprehend this. I get a little confused/frustrated sometimes when people DON'T like a breathtaking masterpiece of literary genius, but not when people like the lighter fare. And yes, you can like both.
I'm sure Ms. James aspires to improve her craft. She's admitted the writing isn't brilliant. She knows she has room for improvement. And hey, not everybody gets to be (or wants to be) Jonathan Franzen or Jeffrey Eugenides. I hope she continues to grow as a writer without losing the spark and passion that brought her so many fans in the first place. But I wish writers didn't feel the need to hate on each other so much, especially when someone they deem unworthy achieves success. I've observed the same phenomenon with Stephenie Meyer (from fellow writers, mind you), and it just baffles me. I understand that she isn't going to win the next Pulitzer for fiction, but she's still a author telling stories people love, and I think that deserves at least some respect from her community of fellow writers. But no, she's treated with a lot of scorn and derision. It just makes me sad.
FWIW, I'm not against discernment when it comes to writing. In fact, I think that's extremely important, and I'm studying the work of authors like Flannery O'Connor and Joyce Carol Oates (and not the work of Ms. Meyer or Ms. James) when I want to learn something about excellent writing, sure. But I am against all the fellow author-bashing. It isn't very classy.
What can I say? I've never heard of this book. Which puts it in company with my book, Tainted Souls, which most people have never heard of. So I'm good company, I guess?
Twilight wasn't so well written, either, and that didn't seem to hurt sales.
Because for some reason women like to read about a poor girl getting beat all in the means of sex?
No thank you. I'd rather read Twilight again then suffer through the series.
Anonymous said, on 5/12/2012 1:10:00 AM
I haven't read Fifty Shades of Grey and I won't either. The story doesn't interest me in the least. So I went to Amazon and read the first two pages.
James's prose has the same quality that Stephanie Meyers, Dan Brown, Nora Roberts, Clive Cussler, WEB Griffin, Janet Evanovich, James Patterson, Stephen King, John Grisham, Julie Garwood, Jayne Anne Krentz, Susan Elizabeth Philips, Robert Ludlum, Ken Follet, Anne MCCaffrey, et al all have. It is compelling to read. It is so compelling that the reader loses themselves in the story and doesn't notice mistakes in spelling, punctuation, and grammar. That is talent. That can't be taught. And quite frankly, I would rather write like one of these authors, than some literary genius no one but the literati have ever heard of or will ever hear of.
Unfortunately if you're the type of person who notices spelling, punctuation, and grammar mistakes when you read, then you will not be able to recognize compelling prose even when it sits up and slaps you in the face.
And I feel sorry for you because when I read a book and get lost in story, it's like riding on Space Mountain. If I'm noticing the spelling and the grammar and the punctuation, then I feel like I've been dragged into The Hall of Presidents. If I get to choose between the two, then it's Space Mountain every time.
What tees me off about this discussion is that there is a lot of mudslinging about the book, but no in depth analysis of why it is bad.
I've read an analysis of Da Vinci Code written by an Ivy League literature professor. His analysis was so stupid, it wasn't funny. What's really scary is that he has a PhD in literature and he is teaching creative writing.
Here is a good in-depth analysis of the book: http://therumpus.net/2012/05/the-trouble-with-prince-charming-or-he-who-trespassed-against-us/
Anonymous said, on 5/12/2012 8:34:00 AM
I've read books that were perfectly lousy and still kept me reading. 50 SHADES wasn't one of them. Fortunately, the Amazon "look inside this book" feature saved me. What put me off so much I couldn't get into the story of a modern young woman in college with NO COMPUTER and no e-mail address who was also a virgin? This deathless simile about the hero's voice, which is “warm and husky like dark melted chocolate fudge caramel…or something.”
At that point I decided that it wasn’t worth reading even for free (from the library). Of course, your mileage may vary....
LOL. I love the comment that compares it to twinkies. Too true. Fifty Shades is a bandwagon everyone can't wait to jump on. Enjoy the ride. It's short.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I'm going to say this anyhow, and I won't even post it anonymously.
As a reader and a writer, it makes me sad that there is a fanfic on the bestseller's list. As a reader, because I want to read fresh stories, not pay for something I already own. As a writer because I don't want someone borrowing my characters, and it's not something I ever would do. I DO think there is a place for fanfic. I think it's supposed to be just for fun not a cash cow. I think there is more artistic integrity in creating your own world, and your own characters.
Thanks for the link. I am the anonymous at 2:10 AM (sorry I was too lazy to log into blogger)
That analysis is of the story, not the prose. And I absolutely agree with that analysis. It is not a story that I want to read, and it is troubling that it is popular. But I can also see that her prose is compelling to read.
Whether one likes a story or not, doesn't indicate the quality of the prose. I don't like Stephen King's stories, that doesn't make him a bad writer or his stories poorly written.
So when we say that something is poorly written, what are we talking about? Is it the prose, the plot, the characterization, or what? In terms of plot and characterization and all the other elements of fiction, yes it is poorly written. In terms of the prose styling, the actual stringing together of words to tell the story, it is compelling to read.
And yes, I do feel empathy for you, your inbox will soon be filled with Fifty Shades of Grey clones. That's human nature. We see someone becoming hugely successful for something and then everyone rushes in trying to mimic that person's success instead of finding it on their own.
Anonymous said, on 5/12/2012 2:55:00 PM
We don't need no, education, we don't need no, grammar skills..
..Hey, editors! Leave those kids alone!
It's like a DADAist approach to writing: Why should you have to be intelligent to write a story? Why should you have to study the english language to write a story? After all, Daniel, you said so yourself: The ability to write so well you don’t *need grammar* comes from talent and can’t be taught. Much like how affluent artists are simply born with a pencil in their hand and can render a beautifully drawn human body without even having to look at one. There's no learning involved in writing, it's just a talent.
I don't fear agent Nelson's inbox being flooded with 50 Shade Clones as much as I fear the fact that due to a rise in people making a conscious choice to be intellectually lazy, there will be hundreds of people like Daniel thinking you don't need to study or work hard to become a writer, all you need is ~imagination~. Grammar, structure, plot and progression are just the product of people who, what was it? Ah yes, "the literati have ever heard of or will ever hear of." Stephen King, Nora Roberts and James Patterson were just born knowing how to write.
Now, since you've made it quite clear reading isn't exactly your thing, I imagine you didn't actually read the article Nelson posted, what with all those multi-syllabic words in there and all. To address your point of James' prose. This:
“My subconscious is frantically fanning herself, and my inner goddess is swaying and writing to some primal carnal rhythm. She’s so ready.”
“white Pinot Grigio.”
"Ana says or thinks, “Jeez,” more times than I can count. There are so many repetitive tics, this trilogy would be ideal for a drinking game where the aim is to destroy someone’s liver. Drink every time Ana thinks, “Jeez.” Drink every time Ana bites her lower lip, which, by the way, makes Christian want to ravish her. Drink every time the palm of Christian’s hand twitches because he wants to spank Ana. Drink every time Ana thinks of Christian as enigmatic or mercurial. Drink every time Ana reflects on his extraordinary good looks. Drink every time Ana gets possessive of Christian because every single human woman in the world eyes him lustily and becomes instantly tongue-tied. Drink every time the narrative continuity goes wildly off track. The game goes on and on."
As well as this,
“I want you to become well acquainted, on first name terms if you will, with my favorite and most cherished part of my body. I’m very attached to this.”
“My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.” “My inner goddess sits in the lotus position looking serene except for the sly, self-congratulatory smile on her face.” “My inner goddess jumps up and down with cheer-leading pom-poms shouting yes at me.” “My inner goddess looks like someone snatched her ice cream.”
Is at the level of a twelve year old writing fanfiction porn. That is not good enough. You may base writing success on sales numbers, but Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian also can outsell many things far better than them, that doesn't make them good. The books you dismiss as elitist and forgotten because they haven't had a Lifetime TV movie made about them are still read to this day because things that are good are enduring, and to be good, things have to have quality. If you cannot understand why The Great Gatsby is better than The Da Vinci Code, or what quality in writing is, for the love of god, see if your community college offers a basic class in English Comprehension.
Thank you for saying this. 50 Shades is insulting. There's better written and less offensive erotica out there that ISN'T find-and-replace-name fanfic. And bottom-of-the-barrel fanfic, at that. (I say this as someone who wrote Harry Potter fic for years.)
I mean, awkward prose aside, there are TYPOS and MISSPELLINGS (not just British to American English misspellings). Nothing should go for seven figures and make this much buzz with DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS OF SPELLING ERRORS at the very, very least.
If none of this silly grammar stuff matters, why should we have to have classes in our own language during school? Because it DOES MATTER.
I feel like the publishing industry owes millions of authors, already published, seven more figures. Because if 50 Shades is worth that much...
Anonymous said, on 5/12/2012 3:51:00 PM
@anonymous 3:55 PM
Wow, can you be any more arrogant, condescending, rude, and insulting?
It is posts like yours that stifle constructive discussion of books such as these.
Clearly the one in need of a class in reading comprehension at the local community college is yourself as you didn't understand a word that she said (You didn't even get her name or gender right when you went on your tirade.)
And while you are there see if they teach a class in manners as your are sorely lacking.
Lucy said, on 5/12/2012 6:57:00 PM
Kristin, thanks for posting the link. That really was a pretty comprehensive analysis, and I agree with the writer--it's the wrong message, wrong kind of fairy tale.
Glad you shared it.
Anonymous said, on 5/12/2012 9:19:00 PM
I was bottle-fed on the three-act structure, so my heart breaks every time I see another book, film or television show clearly missing those Campbellion (and many other) beats.
Still, I make it a point to never berate other writers. This industry is hard. If another writer figured out how to tune into our cultural zeitgeist, and make a mint in the process, God bless.
We live in an age where books are the underdog. In my mind, every time a book succeeds, we all (writers, agents and publishers) win. It’s good for all of us. No need to worry. :)
If it is not well written, I can completely understand why you wouldn't be the agent to go for it. At the very least, any agent who does should at least have had it edited so that it would be well written by the time it hit shelves. Thanks for sharing.
Anonymous said, on 5/13/2012 3:36:00 PM
I never knew that writers and wanna be writers were so bitter and elitist . If all of you are so talented, why are you writing comments instead of bestsellers?
I bought it to see what all the hype was about. I had to stop reading somewhere in chapter two because the plot was so implausible, the writing was on an eighth-grade level (that's being generous), and there are so many other books actually worth my time.
Anonymous, I'm not bitter and elitist (unless by your definition, it means I have standards). As applied to this book, better terms would be confused, perhaps mystified. I just don't get *why* this book is a bestseller unless it's some sort of mass hysteria leftover from Twilight. I bear the author no ill will. Good luck to her. I wish all of us could be hit by the same lightning.
Here's my take. Frankly, I'm not really surprised this book has done well, because the subject matter sells. I neither read nor write this kind of fiction, so I can't rely upon the subject matter *alone* selling my work to anyone (naturally, I hope the subjects I write about will be of interest to people). I simply want to write stories I care about, and write them as well as I can. I want to be proud of my work, and be able to hold my head up and say "this is a good example of my writing skills." Personal integrity is very important to me.
From the interviews I've read/heard (and correct me if I'm mistaken), Ms. James doesn't consider herself a good writer, and doesn't think her book is really all that good. If I had that attitude about something I'd written, I would never have allowed it to be published.
Just my 2c.
Anonymous said, on 5/13/2012 9:18:00 PM
This elitist attitude is WHY publishing is in such trouble. THIS book got people to read. THIS book made money. And THIS book made the so-called gatekeepers stop and wonder.
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It's very sad and disheartening that works like 'Shades of Grey' get published with very little effort, while many TALENTED writers' works are left to stew in the slush pile. Many writers are now going the 'Self-Publishing' route, taking the traditional Agent and Publisher out of the equation. If publishers and agents don't pull their collective heads out of their ...holes in the sand, they may soon find themselves as archaic as typewriter repairmen. Wise up, people. Don't let 'Trendy' overcome 'Talent.'
An interesting discussion, slowly morphing into anonymouses taking potshots at one another.
As an out-and-proud elitist, I am not going to read it. But she got one thing right. 50 Shades of Grey is a pretty good title. (Unless it's some Twilight fanfic in-joke that went completely over my head.)
Anonymous said, on 5/14/2012 7:00:00 AM
This book deserved to be published because millions of people are reading it and enjoying it. That's the only criteria.
Any agent or editor who represents books in the romance genre and passed on this book doesn't know her field. Period. Stop making excuses. And whining. A key rule of business is to know your target audience. If you want to make your job easier, stop representing dull books only a few thousand people want to read.
And to all those writers struggling to "perfect their craft," wake up and learn what really makes a marketable book.
Anonymous said, on 5/14/2012 7:46:00 AM
I'm with anon@8:00 AM.
But then is the capacity to objective there? In other words, the norm has been for agents and editors to choose books for publication based on their *subjective* taste...for the most part. And if that subjective taste is not geared toward marketable books that people want to buy and read, are agents and editors capable of looking at their businesses objectively?
Frankly, I'm not sure they are. Fifty Shades of Grey would have been turned down by most agents just like The Help was turned down by most agents. Two very different books with two very different subjects. And yet both became bestsellers.
Something is broken. Plain and simple.
Anonymous said, on 5/14/2012 7:50:00 AM
I'm the anon above. I wanted to add one more thing so no one thinks I'm attacking agents.
Publishing and authors are going to need agents more than ever as things change. But a little less gatekeeping and subjectivity and a lot more objective representation is what they need.
I enjoy erotic romance novels. I made a valiant attempt to read "Fifty Shades ..." and couldn't get past the first four chapters. There was something disturbingly familiar about the dynamic between Ana and Christian (Read: Bella and Edward)that I found off-putting. It was just *so* 1970s Harlequin Romance. But, this simply suggests that I don't find this type of male-female relationship compelling enough to read about, and that perhaps I prefer a more modern tale of courtship between a man and woman who treat each other as peers.
Quality of writing aside, the most important question to ask is why such a large number of female readers *are* riveted by the naive, quivering 21-year-old virgin and the older man equipped with looks, power and extreme wealth when clearly a lot of us writers have been told that this plot device is outdated. I suggest that "Fifty Shades ..." isn't wildly popular just because it introduces a little bit of vanilla kink into the plot; it's popular because women relate to/want to be Bella/Ana.
FIFTY SHADES OF GREY was picked up after it had sold over a quarter of a million copies. That alone justified the advance.
It was picked up by its original publisher, The Writer's[sic] Coffee Shop after it had amassed an audience of somewhere in the neighborhood of two million readers on fanfiction.net.
It was not picked up because of the quality of its writing, and any writer who thinks that writing that way will get them a million dollars is frankly, nuts. It wasn't even picked up because Vintage thought it would sell. It was picked up because it was already selling.
That's a huge difference.
It was a one-in-a-million shot that is likely never going to be repeated. A book with characters so archytepal and flat that they could be exploited by a fanwriter in a way that created an AU far enough to avoid a copyright suit. A fandom around that book so willing to pour its energy into works which had little to do with its source. A history of works within that fan community that had already laid the groundwork for desire for more of Edward Cullen as a human dominant rather than a domineering vampire. The surge in the epublishing industry and in tiny e-publishing mircropresses that allowed some fans to create their own press to publish name-changed fanfiction that most publishing professionals would never lay their hands on.
That's what led to the original sales. And that's what led to the deal.
It was a perfect storm. And a writer who understands the industry and understands the provenance of FIFTY SHADES OF GREY will understand that...how large that number is, however, I couldn't tell you.
I don't think any agent or publisher who would have passed this book up if it had been presented without that original fanbase is in any way misguided. It would not have done as well had it not come from where it did, at the time that it did, and with the huge groundswell of support moving beneath it.
Anonymous said, on 5/14/2012 11:18:00 AM
"And to all those writers struggling to "perfect their craft," wake up and learn what really makes a marketable book."
*Wow*
Guys. Game over. You just. You can't get better than this?
I can only hope that if I ever pitch something, that's the kind of writer I'm competing against. Anonymous, could you send us your email, maybe post a date around when you'd like to talk to an agent or an editor? Just. You know. For reference?
Hey, all other writers in this thread, all of you who are passionate and dedicated and working hard? Could you listen to that anonymous? Yeah, all that hard work stuff. Totally unimportant. Yep. Agents and editors are just looking for stuff that's marketable. I hear there's a Battleship movie coming out, maybe you can do something in that vein? Like, a Candyland saga? Avengers sold out, maybe you can write a young adult novel about the adventures of Sargeant United States and his buddy Steel Guy. I think this is the way to go. Yep. Totally.
STATUS: Will I or will I not catch this cold? Verdict is still out although I stayed home the last two days hoping that would tilt it in favor of the "will not."
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? AIN'T NO SUNSHINE by Bill Withers
Selling a book is not the same as selling a widget--at least for me (although I do know any number of agents who treat it that way and take on a whole lot of projects, throw them out there on submission, and hope maybe 2 out of 5 will stick).
On Facebook, I mentioned that I had recently seen a sale for a project that I read all the way through but in the end didn't decide to take on and that I was thrilled for the author. One commenter just couldn't fathom why I had passed if I could see the sell potential in the project.
The simple answer? Time. I only have so much time to offer to a new client and I simply have to love love love it to make the time investment.
Often times I work with the author through one or two revisions before submitting to an editor. It's not like I offer rep one day and throw it out there the next. I want it to be the most amazing I can make it be. After all, it's been a tried and true way for me to get really amazing money for my authors.
And what if the project doesn't sell? Then chances are very good I'll be spending a lot of time helping them get the next project into shape. And if I only took on a project because of its sell factor, chances are good I may or may not like the writing of the new project. That feels a bit risky to me.
I like taking on the things I feel passionate about because of the very fact that books aren't widgets. Otherwise it's just about the money and though that is one way to agent, it's not right for me.
19 Comments on Why Don't We Take on Any Old Thing If We Think It Will Sell?, last added: 5/1/2012
I like your style. If I were an agent, I would probably feel the same way.
I actually kind of do feel the same way about my own writing. I have tons of ideas, but I don't write every single one... I only write the ones that I love love love.
I think the way you do it is best. I know I wouldn't want someone representing my work if they didn't love it. It makes it all about the money and that should never be what books are about.
I think you're right, Kristin. Publishing is a long slog and if you don't love the project, you might be tempted to give up on it. I wish all agents were like you!
Ashley B said, on 4/28/2012 2:52:00 PM
I think it's commendable that you didn't take on the client. A writer should have an agent who truly loves and truly believes in his or her work, not someone who was just in it for the money.
By choosing not to represent the writer, you allowed them to find someone who did feel that way about the story.
This make complete sense to me. I'm sure your current clients also appreciate you being choosy with how you add to your work load since it will affect your time for them.
I really respect that. Publishing is hard enough when everything goes right, and if you take on a client that you're not crazy about, it becomes that much harder. I wish all agents operated the way you do.
This makes a lot of sense. When an agent rejected my full, she was very kind in explaining that the ms was great. That she found nothing wrong with it, and that she was rejecting it for personal preference only. It broke my heart and I wanted to have my work published so badly, that I wished she'd just take it on anyway. But since then I've realized that I want an agent who gets my stories, loves my writing, and yearns to see my books on the store shelves just as much as I do.
Although it means that I'm less likely to get accepted by an agent, I'm glad that there are agents out there who value a story they're passionate about over money and sell-potential.
I've often wondered about this time thing. Specifically, is it okay to requery an agent for the same project after a certain amount of time? Maybe the first query hit their slush pile at a busy time. Do agents have slow periods and busy periods, or is it always busy?
My gut feeling says no. It's never okay to requery for the same project. But I still wonder...
Thank you for this blog. I am helping my husband research agents, and so far this has been the most helpful place. You have answered all of my questions and then some!
I do the same thing. I make some authors very mad because I won't accept their "best novel ever." But we all have our standards and we need to live by them. I cannot tell you the number of Kindle edition books I read that I ask, "is this self-published?" and then find out it was not, giving me time to reflect on the value of a literary agent who takes time to make sure the best edited product reaches the publisher. We need to set our standards and live by them in our practice.
Anonymous said, on 5/1/2012 8:34:00 AM
"I cannot tell you the number of Kindle edition books I read that I ask, "is this self-published?" and then find out it was not, giving me time to reflect on the value of a literary agent who takes time to make sure the best edited product reaches the publisher."
You need to step up your game, dude. Not all self-pubbed Kindle books are unedited. Many of them are being released by published authors with many publishing credits. And, they are making money.
Another point: no publisher expects an edited book. They expect a neat, clean, tight mansucript with a good storyline. When the publisher buys the book they do the editing, and the copy editing. At least that's how it's always worked since I've been in publishing.
It's great to hear you take on the projects you really feel passionate about. This is definitely the way to ensure that the books we read will be of the best quality possible.
STATUS: A lovely lovely spring day. I'll work for a bit and then simply enjoy the day.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? WHY by Annie Lennox
As a writer, are you a panster or an outliner?
I ask because your answer determines when you'd assemble the road map of your novel.
If you are a panster, don't attempt the road map until you have finished a full draft and at least one revision.
Why? Because if you do it too early, the process of outlining can suck the creative spark or essence of storytelling right out of your project.
I've seen it happen with several of my clients who are not intrinsic outliners. It is simply not how their creative process works and the process of doing so dampens the story voice.
But eventually, once the story is down on paper (or should I say computer screen) then I highly recommend the road map. It reveals, very clearly, the bones of the story.
More importantly, it also reveals what is structurally weak in the plot.
26 Comments on Panster And The Editorial Road Map, last added: 4/11/2012
Kristin, just like a real-life outing, the journey is often times more interesting than the final destination. As such, I only draw up the 'road map' after my 3rd or 4th revision, concentrating on interesting side trips and other characters I meet along the way (as long as they are important to the plot). Love the blog, keep it coming. Quite a few of us out there gather in as much info as you have to offer. Thanks again, J.W.
Anonymous said, on 4/7/2012 7:58:00 AM
Great tip. To me it's all about the story, so I mull the story arc over a lot before beginning. I don't write the storyline out though. It's like starting out on a East to West cross-country road trip without a AAA triptych. But I know where I'm trying to get in the end. What happens on the journey is another thing. I get sidetracked by an intriguing little town off the interstate, or decide to bypass the Grand Canyon. After that, all bets are off.
I'm more favorable to Discovery Writer. I do this less now than a few years ago. It used to be I'd write wherever my characters took me and more than once ended up in a Doomed World where it was absolutely impossible to give a satisfactory end to the book. Since then I tend to mull over where it's going and have a general idea where I want to take it (though this too often changes). The roadmap is a good way to make sure you don't get too far off track, though as Kristin said at least one revision should be given so you don't lose the creative vibe.
Both? Neither? More like an outliner who then trashes her outline every ten minutes and then writes the story as it should be written, causing another outline to be 'written.' There's always an outline in my head (I killed too many trees trying to write them out!), but it's constantly under revision as the story shifts.
So I guess that makes me panster with delusions of plotting.
I am an extreme panster (maybe I can get a Mountain Dew sport commercial for "extreme pansting?" ;)).
I grab some amazing characters, then we take off and run. I do get frustrated sometimes with the amount of re-writing involved in my style, but at the same time, so many wonderful things have happened in my stories that I never could have planned (ok, not so wonderful for my characters, but good to read ;)).
I think I will always be this way, as for me the joy is in the journey- I figure if I can't wait to see what happens next, hopefully the reader can't wait either.
That being said- a road map would be a VERY helpful thing during the re-write/editing process.
I'm an outliner and I do the road map at least 2x. Outlining is the first - I tweak it as I write the first draft. The second is what I call a story revision. I go through and do as you suggest; ask what each scene does for the story/characters and fill in blank spots and take out what isn't working. Then I write draft 1.5. That's the draft I revise (times whatever it takes) and polish. great advice.
I'm a pantser that writes everything by hand for the first draft. Once that's done, I set up a road-map before starting the rewrite, converting the story to a computer-read format.
The reason why I did this: it's the only way I can improve the story I'd written. Without the map, I'd just come up with more versions similar to the original, but not the same, so there wouldn't be an improvement.
Pantser, as far as I know. :) Still learning. But it is incredibly useful to make the roadmap once the book is 'done'. It helps, not just with subsequent drafts, but with writing the dreaded query letter and synopsis. Holy cow. I don't know how I would have written an intelligent summary without it.
I've tried pantsing and tried outlining bur found that a nice middle ground works best for me. A nice skeleton to give me a little bit of direction but nothing tight and restraining because I know my characters may have a few detours in mind.
Pantser for sure. Then after first draft I tread more carefully, although sometimes even the best plans need alterations. I'm glad there's a name for it ^.^
I'm a pantser, but I'm going to try to have at least a vague outline for my next novel. It kills me to cut out all the great scenes my characters force me to write. Better if I don't write them in the first place.
I'm some weird hybrid, but I'm learning I lean towards pantster. I tried to force a recent wip to form from outline, and it's ruined the story for me. But I tend to see the plot coming as I get to know my characters. When I do, I write with more purpose.
I agree with Daisy - I'm some odd combination of the two. I usually just write down an outline of scenes or basic points, look for flaws and then proceed to write. My biggest problem comes when I try to outline every detail of the story. That does suck all of the creativity out of me!
If I'm writing for the pure fun of it, I'm a panster. If I'm writing with the intention to share my work with the wider world - whether published as a book or just uploaded to a random internet site - then I'll outline the narrative. Is that pretty standard or...?
I started as a pantser and it took years to finish a first draft. Then I expanded a novella into a novel in a crazy two weeks and developed an "outline" process that worked for me without realizing it.
It wasn't until a couple years ago when I realized that what I called an outline was a very rough first draft written often out of order in Excel that I then sorted, cleaned up, and expanded into my "first draft." What this, and teaching other writers, has taught me is that people are either drawn to or repelled by the word outline, but whether they organize things in their heads as they write or map it out into plot, character, emotion, etc. sections, writers find ways to gain an understanding of the shape of their novel. And yes, some do it before, some after, some during, but I see developing the ability to create this road map as an important step in the journey to a consistently productive writer.
Yes. Exactly! I've been saying that to my plotter friends who shake their heads at my denial of their creative organized genius.
But I'm not denying their genius, just saying it doesn't work for me. I've done a synopsis, outline, etc. thinking it was how "real writers" do it. But those stories, they haven't been written.
I have a novel right now, for a small press I've done shorts for, which I'm working on. I had to write a synopsis, answer questions from the editorial team, and by then? I was bored with the story. Lost my voice had to put the synopsis away and JUST WRITE. Now I'm 55k into it. It's going much better. I'll go through in the revision and make sure I did what's needed to be done according to the approved synopsis, but until then... What synopsis? LOL
I write until I get completely and utterly stuck, then I revise and outline, so I guess that means I'm a panster, though I'm delving into the world of outlining first now that I'm writing my first "official" outline. I can see where it will make writing the book easier, but I'm not sure I'll be able to do it if I haven't gotten some of the story down first. Often times, I don't know where the story is going until my characters tell me.
I am a total outliner. I write traditional puzzle cozies, and can't imagine not having a full scene-by-scene outline with estimated word count and clue plantings. When I count the scenes and have an estimated word count of 60,000 I'll start my draft. Inevitably I'll revise it about half way through, usually to do what another commenter said about stabilizing chapters, usually a few "sequels" that need to be added in order for the reader to know how the main character is feeling. My estimates are fairly accurate. I'm writing book three in my series this way, and can do up to 2,500 words a day when I'm drafting. Then when the draft is done I start examining the internal scene structure to make sure it works, has some kind of conflict, and adds to the overall arc.
I learned the hard way that I can't let myself go too far without a road map. Though pansting is fun for the first couple chapters, it gets progressively more difficult for me to keep writing without having my world, characters, and plot line set up as a guide. I forget things, ramble, or find that all I'm doing is writing scenes, not a story. With the outline in place, I can start dropping hints early on, revealing backstory and whatnot naturally instead of all at once when I realize I need it.
At the same time, I don't think a writer should be afraid to deviate from the outline if they end up writing things that don't feel right. I've seen friends get some awful blocks from that.
Oh I was a panster with my first novel and I zipped right through it. I'm on my second and I've got outlines, maps, etc and it's taking me forever. I don't even want to mention the serious block I have with this story. A part of me wants the story to write itself so I'm throwing away the map for now. That may change as the story progresses.
Pants-ed it all the way through my first novel, but plotted my second (which I'm currently working on) and I think I'm in love with drawing the road map first!
Laurie said, on 4/10/2012 10:04:00 AM
A bit of both, so far. I start with an outline, and I have to know the ending, but I discover a great deal as I write the first draft, even without deviating much from the outline.
On the current story, I did a road map between the first and second drafts, and while writing the second draft, I'm trying filling out a detailed spreadsheet keeping track of the different characters so I can follow their arcs for the final polishing draft.
I'm a middle-of-the-roadster. With my first novel, I outlined extensively. Writing it turned out to be grueling and the end product was lifeless. Technically fine, but not interesting even for me. With my second novel I started writing with only a basic idea of where I wanted to go and what I wanted to say. Mostly I needed to prove I could actually write a novel with small kids in the house. Loved the process and the end product, but when I workshopped it I got feedback that not enough happens. I needed to raise the stakes. Now I'm starting a third novel with the same characters, setting etc of my second novel and I've put more thought into the skeleton of the plot in advance. Here's hoping the third time is the charm!
STATUS: I'm feeling this strange desire to belt out Men At Work songs. Wait, that's because I'm jet lagged and actually in Australia!
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? ENGLISHMAN IN NEW YORK by Sting
Last Thursday, Angie and I got a chance to do informational interviews at the Denver Publishing Institute. As 2002 grads (and I can't believe it's been that long!), we were happy to give back by chatting with the graduating students looking for careers in publishing and specifically those who were interested in agenting.
I did about 15 interviews and during the day, I have to say that something completely crystalized for me.
Q: What does it take to be a good literary agent?
A: The ability to handle conflict.
Q: What does it take be a happy literary agent?
A: The ability to be sanguine about all the conflict you deal with on a daily basis.
I know. This should have been obvious but I had never boiled it down to the above. Ninety percent of agenting is troubleshooting and do conflict resolution.
And I'm not exaggerating.
An agent's job is to be the author's advocate. Plain and simple. And that means it's the agent's job to sometimes be the "bad guy" so the author can have a warm and fuzzy relationship with his/her editor and publisher.
The agent is the person who says the tough things when they need to be said.
So if you are by nature, a conflict avoider, then being a literary agent is not going to be a happy job for you. It's not like anyone loves conflict (or maybe some folks do!) but some folks are more hard wired to deal with it with equanimity.
Definitely something to keep in mind if you want to pursue this particular career.
16 Comments on Hard Wired For Conflict Equanimity?, last added: 8/11/2011
Yes, this is a great point. It still amazes me how ambitious my agent is, how up-front, direct, and non-fluffy she is when she needs to be. She protects me and I lubs her. I, on the other hand, am Ms. Thank-You-Sir-May-I-Have-Another.
I know you had a post in there somewhere too, but... you know. Australia. We don't get a lot of spiffy visitors, especially of the publishing world variety. Have fun!
What about conflict with clients? I'd hope that it wouldn't come up very often, but if you work with confrontational clients, I imagine interactions get heated at times. How do you handle those clients?
This is SO TRUE and, like you, I'd never crystalized the job in quite this way before. I've linked to this post on my blog today, which is also about the requirements for being a literary agent!
Good points. I think a lot of people think agenting must be this glowing, happy-type job because you get to represent books you love. But the deals don't happen by magic. They don't realize that you're salespeople who must have the ability to push and argue on our behalf. I can't imagine you'd succeed if you were weak-willed or avoided conflict.
I can see from the comments that I'm far from the only one who said, "Ooh! Australia! How exciting!"
Melbourne is a great city - sorry about the rain :) I was there for the Melbourne Writers' Festival last year and it was my habit of eavesdropping on public transport that made me realise how artsy it really is.
Louise Curtis
Lucy said, on 8/10/2011 4:14:00 PM
@ Jessie
The question is answered from time to time on agent blogs, but it hasn't come up for a while, so I'll give you what I remember.
You do not have to have a license, or a degree to become an agent--one of the reasons so many questionable/inexperienced/damaging agents exist is precisely because of the lack of regulation. I'm assuming you don't want to be any of the above.
Most people who go on to become reputable (and respected) agents follow a career track that either begins as an agency intern, or in an entry-level position in a publishing house. With the former, the would-be agent is mentored through the ranks, often moving through an assistant-ship into supervised agenting, and eventual partnership or at least working "on their own." For those who take the publishing track, a corresponding rise through the editorial departments--preferably for a recognized, reputable publisher--is the most common, though experience in sales and marketing shouldn't be overlooked.
Many agents do not make enough sales to have agenting as their only job; those that do, tend to work what probably comes close to 80-hour weeks, if all the query/partial/full manuscript reading is included.
I never realized conflict was such a huge factor. I guess you have to be very skillful in being confrontational, but still remain likable so editors will want to work with you...lol...I met you at Backspace last year and you're certainly pleasant so I know you've got that aspect down to a science :-)
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? MY HEART BELONGS TO ME by Barbara Streisand
Holy cow! Can't believe I missed this article yesterday. I'm so glad an agent friend forwarded to me. Take a moment to read it and tweet it on but in short, it's an appeal to support literature with gay and lesbian characters and the fact that there are some appalling agents and editors out there who are making requests that the writers make a gay character straight.
Seriously? What year are we in?
I cannot tell you how delighted I was to see a link to a list of YA literature that features gay/lesbian characters and my author Sarah Rees Brennan's THE DEMON'S LEXICON series was on it.
This author of mine is brilliant. It's a wonderful series and her new trilogy that I just sold to Random House also has an absolute kick-a** gay/lesbian main character. The first book UNSPOKEN publishes in fall 2012.
Not to mention, I have a Monica Trasandes' debut adult literary novel coming out in spring 2012 from Thomas Dunne Books/St. Martin's Press. It's called BROKEN LIKE THIS and features three main protagonists: a bisexual character, a gay/lesbian character and a straight male character (had to throw that last one in there-LOL).
A multicultural author to boot. I'll tell you right now it was a tough sell but I loved the novel and I sold it.
So add these to your wish lists if you want to show support via your buying dollars. If I had cover art or anything yet for these two titles, I'd post it here but we are in the middle of the cover design and the buy links aren't available online yet.
And let's not forget the incredibly brilliant, witty, impeccably dressed and extremely powerful Lord Akeldama from Gail Carriger's The Parasol Protectorate series.
I must admit it never occurred to me to add to my agency's submission page that we are open to accepting material with LGBTQ characters because I kind of thought it went without saying but I'm rethinking it now.
Feel free to link to this blog post that it's a-okay with us and I have NEVER asked an author to change a character's ethnic background or orientation.
And because we are talking about multicultural too, check out my author Kimberly Reid's debut YA novel MY OWN WORST FRENEMY. It's an African-American urban Nancy Drew series. I mean, just how cool is that?
Note: LGBTQ stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning.
STATUS: If I hear that "I want a hippopotamus for Christmas" song one more time...
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? ANOTHER YEAR HAS GONE BY by Celine Dion
Traditionally, December is the month where publishing starts to quiet down as editors get ready to be away for the holidays. Kind of like how August tends to be an unofficial slow down period that then picks up after Labor Day.
If it's true this December, I certainly can't tell yet. We close next week but we are working like there is no holiday around the corner. Sara just wrapped up a deal earlier in the week. I'm announcing on Pub Lunch a deal I closed recently. I'm in the middle of two other negotiations--one of which was out of the blue from a publisher who couldn't offer earlier in the year but now is.
Love that!
And lots of agents are obviously hard at work during this month as some fulls we've requested have gotten offers of representation--literally only days after receiving the actual manuscript.
So I would say it's kind of like business as usual and probably will be right up until we close a week from tomorrow.
7 Comments on December--The Slow Month?, last added: 12/12/2011
I don't think much slows down this time of year. My life only picks up pace, in all areas. Congrats on business going well. Way to end 2011 with a bang!
I think a lot of businesses get a little crazy in December because they're trying to get a lot done before the break. I work in a university library, and we've certainly been crazy the last two weeks as students have been finishing up their quarter.
I guess the next two weeks will be a bit slower, though. Huh.
You don't like the hippopotamus song? Change it up!
"I want a hypothalamus for Christmas, Only a hypothalamus will do! Don't give me glands To hold in my hands, No adrenals, pancreas or thyroid, But only a hypothalamus will do!"
STATUS: This morning I thought I had a mild day in front of me. After the third fire before 10 a.m., I gave up that notion.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? REMINISCING by Little River Band
So yesterday's announcement is not the be all end all of this topic. I'm happy to chat some more about our new Digital Platform.
As I said yesterday, we developed our model in conversation with our clients. In fact, their input modeled it. I went to them and said, "If an agent was going to offer a supported environment for self publishing, what would make sense to you? What would be of concern? What would make it worth an agent's commission?"
And they told me. They also were gracious enough to review various model outlines and the DLP agreement that any author interested in using the DLP would need to click "I Agree" to use it.
And their help was absolutely invaluable and I feel quite comfortable that what we've created is the right approach--that we have not created something that will be a conflict of interest in representing clients and is a very ethical way for an agent to provide yet another facet of services to our authors.
My client Courtney Milan was graciousness enough to post a blog entry on the topic today if you'd like some insight from an author who is currently self pubbing happily and successfully and not through our DLP--which by the way, bothers me not at all. I support her choice. Another client plans to do a guest entry on why she is using the full-service option and why she has been over-the-moon to do so.
Just wait until you see her totally kick-a** cover--something I don't think she would have gotten on her own. It's stunning.
I imagine that if a writer believes that all an agent does is sell books to publishers, there might be questioning on why an author would bother using an agency's DLP. After all, a writer can certainly write the book, convert the efiles (or pay someone to), and put the titles up on Amazon, BN, Smashwords, Apple, what have you.
But you see, my authors know I do so much more than that.
And as an agent, I have relationships with folks that most writers can't even imagine. Will all of them be valuable? No. Have some already proven to be? Yep.
But let's talk DLP stuff.
1) First a correction. In yesterday's entry, I realized that I typed "term of license." Oi! In our DLP agreement, it's a "term of liaison." Not quite the same thing in a rather big way. So my apologies. For our full-service option, NLA foots all the upfront costs--which is why we specify a 2 year term of liaison. Could you imagine plunking down the money and have the author pull it a month later and we are simply out of luck? Quite frankly, my authors are awesome and I can't imagine any one of them doing that but as an agent, I still have to be smart about it.
In short, for full-service, it needs to be on our DLP for 2 years and that's it. After that, authors are free to do as they please and we will even give them their files. After all, they own it. They didn't grant rights to us.
If we haven't recouped in 2 and they take it, are we screwed? Yep. But I'm betting that it's so worthwhile, that they are happy to keep it there. Nothing is in perpetuity. Why would an author do that?
For distribution only venue, an author can come and go as they please. All we are providing is access to venues they can't access. It's our standard 15% commission. For anyone who doesn't think that's worth it, they obviously have not wrestled with google's very unfriendly platform. Not to mention, we have venues that authors individually do not have access to. And let me tell you, having been there and done that, it's probably not worth the headache for an author. Amazon and BN h
10 Comments on Talking NLA'S DLP, last added: 2/3/2012
Thank you. It sounds well thought out, ethical, and fair.
Anonymous said, on 1/31/2012 8:48:00 PM
The only comment I'd like to add is that authors who agree to other venues fully understand that most sales of digital books are generated through Amazon. Or through digital publishers web sites. In other words, an e-book can be sent from one venue to another but the sales still come from Amazon as it stands right now.
I think the whole kit and kaboodle is genius. And I've been wondering for a while when an agent would embrace in something like this.
I hope you have great success with this model.
Quill2006 said, on 1/31/2012 8:58:00 PM
This is really interesting to see, and I hope it works out well for you and the authors who decide to use the service. It sounds like you've spent a lot of time and effort to work the kinks out in advance and to maintain your ethical standards. I'm pleased to see an agent who's looking to the future and attempting to find ways to help authors publish ebooks in more venues.
I've only seen this from the consumer end, where I'll want a book in a particular format and not be able to obtain it, even though it's readily available in another, similar format.
I'm a librarian, and we're pretty much stuck dealing with Overdrive (and their, in my opinion, terrible system) and our patrons don't understand why we aren't getting ebooks in the formats they prefer, nor why we keep using a system that doesn't function well. We can finally get Kindle books, but it's been a long battle and there are a lot of issues still to be resolved.
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This last year, I decided to self-pub the middle grade novels I'd written (2 series novels and 3 related short stories), and I'm currently editing #3 for uploading.
And NLA's DLP would be something I would jump at. Like anything new, there is a HUGE learning curve with self-publishing. I know numerous authors who are doing well and making decent money at it.
Many of them have a few added advantages: 1) a known name (published traditionally) 2) writing in an established genre (romance, erotica, etc). MG is relatively new in ebooks because the parent is still monitoring downloads and most kids don't have an e-reader(though they were big gifts this last Christmas!) 3) a networking platform that reaches out to potential readers, prior to SP endeavor.
I've had a tough time finding reviewers for my MG novels. In fact, I've been on one waiting list for over 7 months. Having an agent who has access to numerous reviewers would be wonderful.
Finding a designer for cover art is hard . . . and a crap shoot. What I want to see on a cover isn't necessarily what sells the cover. To that end, I LOVE my covers.
Don't even ask me about foreign sales. True, Amazon has opened new shops in numerous countries, but they want to read TRANSLATIONS and not the English version. Finding (and paying a translator) is totally out of my abilities.
I'm sure there are a few more points I'd like to make, but I need to walk my kidlet to school!
This is a very intriguing offer, in my opinion. I recently read about another book that used a similar idea, where the agent offered help for it.
I personally am hoping to go the traditional route, but something like this is just as viable to me, for example, if no publishers show interest.
My question is, how do you choose people to use this service? I know the author elects to do so, but do they need to query you first, specifically for it? Or is it a case where the book didn't sell to a publisher, and you offer to give them this sort of representation?
I just wanted to say that I really liked your entry for Erica's contest. It's delightfully awful!
Lucy said, on 2/1/2012 11:13:00 AM
And if Blogger eats my comment for the third time, I want to know why. :D
Just to say I think this is a great model, Kristin, and I love the idea. Thanks for all you do to support your authors. Even if I'm not one of them, it gives me the warm fuzzies to see an agent so involved.
Anonymous said, on 2/2/2012 7:13:00 PM
I find it interesting that a new type of service is still compensated by the "old" standards.
Why 15%? Why put in the loophole of having a two-year minimum in your liaison agreement to cover your risk? Why not price the service for what it is?
I'm still waiting to hear about that "fresh new idea" from an agency on how they can help the writer in the e-market. (Gee, haven't we heard that request before?)
I've followed this blog for quite some time and appreciate all the insight you've provided. Please keep this conversation going. The agent's role in the new way of publishing has yet to be clearly articulated and NLA is an agency who could make this happen.
Thank you, Kristen, for your honesty and putting yourself out there in the best interest of all writers, not just your clients.
STATUS: A have slight cold so not feeling 100 percent today.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? MOONDANCE by Liz Longely
When a writer emails us to say they have an offer on the table, for the most part, we do read the pages right away. After reading some of these submissions, and I feel awful admitting this, but I think the offer is a little suspect. Sometimes the pages just aren't strong enough for me to believe that an agent has offered. That it was simply a ploy for a fast response.
Luckily, for the most part, I do believe the writer as I can see it. The work might still not be right for me but it's strong enough that the offer is probably real.
Today takes the cake though. We received an email with "offer of representation" in the subject line. Upon reading the email, the writer revealed that he had had this offer in a biblical vision.
Yep. This one would definitely get the WTF stamp.
37 Comments on Don't Cry Wolf With "An Offer Of Representation" In Subject Line, last added: 3/2/2012
Unfortunately, Elijah won't be able to actually SELL the book until he returns to Earth to help usher in the Messianic age, by which point all print publishers will be dead.
Too bad people waster your time like that. I am glad you read more seriously when you get those type of e-mails. Because I'd definitely want to send you an e-mail like that if someone else ever offered me representation.
I don't doubt what you say for one minute, Krisin. However, haven't we all read at least a couple of books that have left us shaking our heads saying, "A literary agent actually thought this was good??!"?
I just checked the last two books I queried you on. One, the response came in one day. Another, the response took three. You guys are some of the fastest responders in the business. How much faster do these people want to hear back from you?!
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of publishing, I will fear no deadline: for thou art my agent; thy rod and thy staff they represent me.
With family, friends, and acquaintances, I'm constantly fighting the stereotype that artists and writers are insane and/or alcoholic. I think I'll stop fighting now...
Actually, this ploy was recommended by a young, recently-signed debut author on her blog. This writer was answering questions from her followers as to how to make sure their submissions were taken seriously & therefore read by agents.
I was wondering if anyone had done that before too (I would never risk it). Since some agents take months to respond to partial and full manuscript requests, this ploy might actually work. It would be dumb to do it after an initial query though.
STATUS: I'll be out of the office all next week for the RT Convention in Chicago. Wait, wasn't I just out of town?
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? PYRO by Kings of Leon
More and more as of late, I find myself creating what I call an editorial road map for any novel.
Now, when I edit a client manuscript, I use track changes to make comments as I read along. That's pretty standard
But lately, after I finish the entire read, I then go back through the novel to construct the road map. In this process, I literally skim through the work, chapter by chapter, and I create an outline of all the major plot points by chapter for the novel.
I find that the process of formulating the outline allows me to create a framework for writing up my editorial letter.
Via the outline, I can clearly point out what works, what doesn't work, where it should build tension or escalate the stakes, what could be deleted to tightened or even if the story has gone off the rails completely.
It's definitely more work on my part but I think it a valuable exercise. In fact, my "road map" critiques are becoming a bit legendary with my clients. *grin* They love it (or maybe they are too afraid to say otherwise!)
And to be blunt, from a lot of the sample pages and full manuscripts I've read within the last 6 months, I think many writers could benefit from doing a critique road map of their own. It really does force you to ignore character, dialogue, description and boil the story down to its plot skeleton core.
A lot can be revealed about pacing and story arc.
Hum…. I'm sensing there may be a workshop idea here.
22 Comments on Creating An Editorial Road Map, last added: 4/9/2012
When I did a rewrite on a story I really loved but that needed major work I created an outline for it before beginning on a new document. I used a very basic plot arc and then expanded it accordingly. (I liked using the numbered list function on Microsoft Word where it's easy to add things before and after and have different levels.) It helped so much for staying focused on the plot. Also helpful was planning a preliminary one-sentence pitch that got to the heart of my conflict so I could make sure it all went back to that.
Workshop = win. In the meantime, I recommend STORY ENGINEERING, by Larry Brooks. If I ever see publication or sell a spec script, it will be thanks to that book teaching me to see and love the structure.
I think a lot of problems we'd find in a manuscript could be eliminated by making a detailed plan and thinking about the pace and story arcs before we actually start the writing. Conducting your idea at the end would be like double checking, so even better again! Definitely a good idea, thanks for sharing :)
This is something I'm trying to learn to do, but I find myself stumbling. I think it's a fantastic idea though to see how an entire finished story stacks up in a brief overview.
I write from an outline to make sure I am covering all the important parts of the plot and foreshadowing appropriately. Of course things change a little as rewriting occurs. What I find is that I need more in what I call "bridging chapters" than I expect. A bridging chapter for me is one that has internal conflict and ties together the heavy action in the external conflict chapters. They set the stage, describing the world, and revealing the characters. These chapters are chock full of information but sometimes bog the story down too much. The outline helps me find ways to keep up the pace or even redistribute the information in my "bridging chapters"
Sara said, on 4/6/2012 6:41:00 AM
I had a rejection that commented on pacing which spurred me to create a roadmap. I write the scene, the GMC of it, and lay it all out. It's easier to manipulate when everything is right there in front of you.
I actually already do this as a writer, and I've really enjoyed the results. It lets me so how the chapter needs to work in relationship to everything else. What is ultimately it's most important facet? What could be trimmed? It's also helped me when I occasionally re-arrange pieces to re-pace the work.
I agree with Bonnee--it seems like it'd be a good double-check at the end if you are (or are working with) a writer who creates an extensive outline at the beginning. (I sure do.) It'd be interesting and very useful to compare how one planned the story and how the story turned out, and let you more easily determine how scenes relate to each other, whether all the subplots have been carried through to conclusion, and so on. A workshop would be nice!
I do this as well, between the first and second draft. Since I'm a pantser, I often end up with scenes that are great but in the wrong place. So the first thing I do with a rough draft is skim over it and make a detailed outline of all the important things.
Then I can edit the outline for structural problems. I can see where things need to be added or moved or taken away. Gives me a road map for the whole second draft.
I like to do a plot board after the first draft. I use a giant posterboard for each act and have a grid for each scene. Then I use colored post-its to indicate plot points, turning points, romantic turning points, and other important elements. For example, with a mystery, you could a clue post-it to note where in the story the different clues fall.
Then I step back and look at it. If I see a big gap in a certain color, I know that something is missing. It also helps me ensure that each scene has at least two purposes.
It sounds like what I do with my books. After I've written the first draft and edited it a time or three for the major stuff I know in my head is there, I create a detailed outline for the book. Scene by scene and chapter by chapter I break it down, outlining characters, locations and events. Then I use that for the next revision because it just shows the skeleton without all the flesh. So helpful. The first time I did this, I ended up creating a new outline after I'd revised a couple more times to work off of since there were some major changes.
I recently did this on a big, white poster board. A bit primitive, yes, but it helps me to see the story all at once when I'm revising. I had a one-line summary for each chapter. If I need to move chapters around, it's much easier for me to identify a chapter by that one line rather than scrolling through the entire document on my computer, looking for a certain section. It also helps me when it comes time to revise my synopsis.
I'm learning the joys (insert sarcasm) of outlining. While the process is enough to make me want to scream, I am seeing where my story is definitely going (and where it's coming from). I think it is ultimately going to be very helpful in the final draft. It already showed me one area of the book that was simply there because it was a neat scene idea, not because it adds anything to the story. Yeah, that scene goes in the "I hope a situation comes up where it's useful one day" pile. *sigh*
Anonymous said, on 4/9/2012 9:49:00 AM
I desperately needed to read this!
I haven't been able to finish anything in years and just finished a new ms over the weekend. I'm having trouble contemplating how to even tackle it. Thanks for sharing an editing strategy!
STATUS: And no one ever talks about the late nights we agent keeps.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? CORNFLAKE GIRL by Tori Amos
I have to say I was highly amused to read a hypothesis from a writer that agents make their money from attending conferences.
If that were true, it would certainly be a poor way to make a living.
For the record, the good majority of conferences pay for travel, hotel lodging, and food. Occasionally, a conference will pay a small honorarium. I’ve personally seen remuneration of $150.00 to $250.00. Let’s say an agent attends 8 conferences at that level. That would be a whopping $2000.00. To put that into perspective, that would just about cover my business class internet for the year and maybe one-quarter of my yearly phone bill. As the honorarium stands now, it might cover our yearly office coffee budget for Starbucks and Common Grounds. Big grin here.
Now I have heard rumors of conferences paying anywhere from $500 to $1000 as an honorarium but I’ve never had the good fortune to participate in any of those conferences (although can someone tell me where I could sign up?).
No, agents don’t attend conferences to earn money. We attend conferences in the hopes of meeting an author and finding a project that will, in turn, earn us money.
It’s actually pretty simple. Agents make money by taking a percentage of what authors earn when an agent sells a project on that author’s behalf.
And there are a variety of revenue streams: 1. The initial sell to the US publisher 2. UK sale 3. Foreign translation sales to foreign publishers 4. Audio 5. Film 6. Other subsidiary rights such as first serial, book club, etc.
And trust me, I’m in my seventh year of agenting and this is certainly not the path to get rich quick. However, it’s a more than comfortable living—for which I feel extraordinarily blessed.
13 Comments on How Agents Make Money—Hint: It’s Not By Attending Conferences, last added: 10/2/2009
I'd really like to thank you for doing this blog. I tried to explain to a friend once how real agents make money when she said a friend of hers from college was paying someone a few hundred dollars to be an agent--"After all, you can't expect them to just work for free!>"--and I couldn't seem to get it through. The more of this plain talk out there of how the business works, the less likely it is for scammers to get a foot in the door with naive young writers.
Perhaps you've posted about this before, but how did you get into being an agent, Kristin?
What skills and qualifications do you think people need to be a good agent? What helps an agent be successful? How do people make a start in the business?
It seems to be an interesting way to make a living, albeit with its own frustrations!
Right. So long as you are going to someone else's conference. The profit matrix is a bit different if its a conference you are putting together. If that were the case, then you'd want the biggest following of wannabe writers you could get--especially the ones with no hope of actually writing something that can sell.
But, if you aren't doing the conference, then sure, the only motivation would be to find new talent. And I certainly wish you the best of luck in that.
I like what Noah Lukeman does: he writes a free guide to crafting a query letter and then constantly refers in it to a twenty-dollar guide he's written on finding a literary agent, presumably on whom to test out one's much improved query letter. I'm not knocking it. I've got two of his books (The First Five Pages and The Plot Thickens) and I've got the free guide and may well buy the twenty-dollar guide.
Like I said, I'm not judging the man or woman who finds it more lucrative to sell the gold mining equipment rather than mining the gold; I'm just pointing out that there is a vast reservoir of wannabe writers who, like the main character in Stephen King's UR, will never publish in any possible universe. But we still have viable checkbooks.
Life is what life is. I'm not judging it. I'm simply pointing out how it works beyond the facades of utter nobility.
But I hear you: you don't make money at conferences. I think you should; that's all I'm saying.
And unless the agent is married/has a partner, gets a salary (rare) or is independently wealthy, most agents also work a second and/or third job while agenting because agenting doesn't actually pay the bills for at least 5-7 years.
I wish more writers understood that, and that more agents would be upfront and honest about how difficult it is to make a living doing this for the first few years.
If we're not doing it for the money (and trust me, we're not; just like nobody chooses to work in publishing for the money), then it must be because we have a genuine passion for the books.
I recall Old Will here not in a personal sense but for her stallwart defense of the industry at-large "methinks the lady doth protest too much!"
I was a newspaper reporter for seven years. There is a 50/50 chance, I believe, that a public official's motivation for getting into office wasn't of snow-driven purity.
This flitting off to conference business bothers me, as in deeply. At last check a round-trip ticket to Hawaii was pretty expensive.
We consider that most agents, like most writers, aren't running in the black like Ms. Nelson is; these days they aren't successful, aren't running at a profit or even breakng even. She seems very honest, forthright and undoubtably the exception, the "honest" fifty percent.
Then we come to those others who seem to looooooooveeeeee this conference business. In fact, some are more often than not, AT a conference rather than look at YOUR manuscript you sent them three months ago! Do..you...LOVE IT!?
Satriales was the locale where the envelopes were exchanged in the Supranos, we recall.
How and where might an agent, not among the other fifty percent, best be "coaxed" shall we say? Well, you would need FACETIME wouldn't you?
Human nature IS what it IS especially in these tough times. Writers who were desperate when times were good, just got more desperate, didn't they?
Plus it's a job you love (most of the time from what I gather) :) That alone is worth it.
Oh to be blessed with a job I loved and felt passionate about...you are indeed extraordinarily blessed!
Patrice said, on 9/30/2009 7:09:00 PM
I think I remember the same comment, regarding agents profiting from attending conferences. The commenter was apparently suggesting that those ten minute "one-on-one" sessions, which the attendees pay for, are a source of big money for the agents. While the Hawaii conference charged $50 for a slot, I wouldn't imagine that the agents get a portion of that... do they?
Like most arts concerns, writing conferences are struggling this year. No one is rolling in the dough.
As to the commenter higher up that indicated that a ticket to Hawaii is expensive -- from the East Coast, where I live, a ticket to Hawaii is about $500. Some people travel, and consider it just a normal thing to take a trip like that once every year or so. Others find it almost a shocking indulgence. It's all in where you spend your money. I bet nearly everyone on this board could save up for a ticket to Hawaii eventually.
If you could find $500 to spend on a sick child, you could find it to go to Hawaii... you just don't want to spend it that way. And surely it isn't true that agents OWE it to potential customers to stay home and read their manuscripts when they have an offer of a free trip to Hawaii...?
Me? I'd sooner coach my kid's soccer game, or even sit through one of their swim meets than spend a minute locked indoors at a conference, making nice, smiling so hard my face hurts, for a bunch of agents who are only there for the free eats, laugh at the wannabees and a few minutes on the plastic lanai by the pool; agents who will forget me, and all my whiny writer nonsense before their plane touches down again on the mainland.
In a hotel conference room in Hawaii!? Really? That's a good time?
Sistah, if I am going to Hawaii, I am bringing the whole family and our surfboards. And hope I don't get my haule ass beat too bad by the locals after riding the North Shore.
More bedda than sitting in a room bribing agents in an industry that's changing faster than people can write contracts.
STATUS: October is a big royalty month for us so a lot of statements and a lot of money coming in.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? I CONFESS by The English Beat
So my blog entry on Tuesday totally got me thinking. Agents can make money from conferences and here’s a terrific example.
I have a debut middle grade novel coming out this week (October 6) and this novel totally made me money from a conference.
How?
I actually met Janice Hardy at the Surrey International Writers Conference two years ago. She had scheduled a pitch appointment with me. She sat down for a 10 minute session and pitched me the project.
I was immediately intrigued and asked for sample pages. I emailed my associate Sara Megibow and told her to be on the lookout for it. The sample pages came in. I read and liked them so asked for the full.
Then I signed her. We did a revision (because the ending needed work). When ready, we went out on submission to editors.
I accepted a six-figure pre-empt for the Healing Wars trilogy.
I’d say that’s making money! It’s a project I may not have landed if I hadn’t attended the conference so technically, this is money I made from a conference. Grin. Just not in the way that writers mistakenly assume.
I actually can’t remember if Surrey charges an extra fee for the pitch appointments or whether that’s part of the general conference price. Either way, agents don’t receive that money; the conference does.
I am so happy for Janice! I met her recently at Ally Carter's book signing and she is seriously one of the nicest people. I loved hearing about her road publication and cannot wait to read her book!
I am thrilled to hear the news that this book was signed up at SiWC. I am teaching in Vancouver on Saturday and need an example of success from both the author and agent's POV.
I love reading Janice's blog (her advice on craft is wonderful), so I'm sure The Shifter's amazing. I'm waiting for my copy to be delivered any day now. So glad you "discovered" her!
Well, I hope the book does well. I hope the trilogy does well, but I couldn't let an agent revise the ending of one of my novels. As an author, could you?
To offer a comparison: what gallery owner would ever take a painter's painting and suggest they paint over some portion of it with some other image? It would be ludicrous to even suggest such a thing.
Yet, if this author wanted the six-figure deal, I guess they were willing to compromise. But that makes the book more of a work-for-hire than a work of art. And for someone like me, the consumer, it's also kind of a rip off, because there's a name on the book and it's not really a product that name could have produced on their own.
I realize Stephen King did this with The Stand, but I think it's safe to say that he regretted that a great deal, and as it happened, when he had the weight to do so, he got the full-length version published.
And it's not necessarily a good thing for the editor over at Harper Collins, either. Because what if while working on the second book of the trilogy, the writer can't come up with a plausible story? Will her agent write the book for her as a ghostwriter?
But hey, what do I care? I got Milli Vanilli going on YouTube right now, and I don't care who was actually singing. I'm just saying no one's going to change the content of my novel(s). Does that mean I won't get published? Life is what life is—most of it hasn’t gone the way I would have wanted it to. We make plans, we have hopes and dreams and the bus hits us the next day just the same. But my stories, in the end, will be my stories.
And here's something that sticks like a splinter in my mind: why would an agent tell the public they helped fix their author’s ending? I mean, here I am a member of the reading public, and I’m left thinking the author is incapable of writing a novel without her agent’s help. And one thing I know about any literary agent: they never type or speak even one word by accident. Sometimes why someone says something is far more interesting than what they say.
But hey, again, why should I even care?
Marie Lu said, on 10/1/2009 9:51:00 PM
I've been looking forward to reading The Shifter too! I loved the opening pages on Amazon and can already tell I'm going to love it. Many, many congratulations to Janice!
I was also lucky enough to read an ARC of this book (I first heard of it on this blog and thought it sounded fantastic), and CONGRATULATIONS to both Kristin and Janice on the nice deal! I can't wait to read the next books in the series. :)
@Gordon: I would definitely let an agent suggest changes to my story. Just like I'd let an editor make changes. Just like I'd let beta readers suggest changes. I probably wouldn't change all of their suggestions, but other eyes help make a story far better than it was before!
I can accept that I, on my own, can't make my stories the best they can possibly be. Everyone needs help.
And Kristin didn't say she changed the ending: she said they revised it.
To be honest, from what I've heard of the work that agents and editors do with books, I'm impressed it was only the ending that needed work. That probably means the book was pretty damn good to begin with.
(Also, I suspect the gallery owner either wouldn't buy a painting he thought was sub-standard; or would buy it for a reduced price, and sell it for a reduced price.)
I don't think many authors could write a really good novel which needs absolutely no revision whatsoever, let alone write such a novel without any outside help - beta readers, critique groups, agents, editors, whatever.
@Ruth - I couldn't agree more. Isn't that precisely what editting is all about?
I know my current novel's ending is potentially controversial because I've had mixed reactions to it - some love it, some not so keen. I would be loathe to change it, but if it makes the difference between published and not published, then I'll certainly listen to any suggestions.
Ruth in bold: @Gordon: I would definitely let an agent suggest changes to my story. Just like I'd let an editor make changes. Just like I'd let beta readers suggest changes. I probably wouldn't change all of their suggestions, but other eyes help make a story far better than it was before!
A zillion people can "suggest" all of the changes they want, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the agent saying this or that part doesn't really work, and then requiring a revision that does work in his or her opinion before they will submit it to editors.
I can accept that I, on my own, can't make my stories the best they can possibly be. Everyone needs help.
That's not true. Everyone does not need help. I don't. You can like or dislike my work, but you can't help me write it. My themes are my themes; my illustration of them is my original work. If you can't make your stories the best they can be on your own, then you are not an author. You may be a writer of some sort, but you are not an author.
And Kristin didn't say she changed the ending: she said they revised it.
I apologize. I realize we're in a post-Clinton world where we have to debate the meaning of "is" but in my opinion revision includes the concept of change.
(Also, I suspect the gallery owner either wouldn't buy a painting he thought was sub-standard; or would buy it for a reduced price, and sell it for a reduced price.)
Exactly. That's how it should be. That's the only power an agent or an editor should have over an author.
But that's the problem with money, isn't it? To quote Lou Mannheim (Hal Holbrook's character in the movie Wall Street): "The problem with money is that it makes people do things they don't want to do."
I don't think many authors could write a really good novel which needs absolutely no revision whatsoever, let alone write such a novel without any outside help - beta readers, critique groups, agents, editors, whatever.
Well, if you mean copyediting, yes. But revisions and the like? If you put all those people in the pot, how could you ever delude yourself into thinking that it's your soup?
If you can't spin a story from beginning to end and write it in a way that is pleasing to yourself first and then to readers in general, you're not an author. You're just some wannabe hack hoping for a lottery win at the expense of a publisher.
I won't go on about it here, but I think I'll write in my own blog about the glory of being an author and why so many want to share in it and steal it if they can. You're attitude suggests you want everything a world famous author has, but you don't have the talent or the dedication to get there, but you don't consider that a barrier.
Gordon, Kristin discussed her ideas with me about the ending before I singed with her. I just loved her ideas and knew they would make the book better. And what I changed was just detail stuff. The story never changed one bit, just how things played out to deepen what was already there. Plus, she never said, do this so that, just made suggestions on a more general thematic level and I ran with it.
Publishing is a group effort. People will and do make suggestions, but in the end, all those suggestions are made with the sole purpose of making the book better. And authors have the right to say no if they disagree. Lots of folks have made suggestions throughout this process, but the story has NEVER changed from my original vision.
Side note to everyone else, thanks for all the kind words :)
Shiny-Happy people (REM) don’t have to do what’s naughty. Good for you, K-Rock. Actually, I would rather read a real(ish) story with believable struggle from someone gifted in their craft. Not fluff with a pretty, shiny-happy cover. But that’s beside the point. Where was I? Oh yes, now I remember: the utter waste of time, money and energy the Writer’s Conference is, particularly from the male writer’s perspective, unless they are willing to shed a li’l somp’n somp’n. Know what I’m sayin’? (Play Funk Cold Medina here) Even then, MEN? Look at the cover. Read the name. Guys, is your name Janice? Are you thirteen or can you pretend you are? If not. You’re out. If you go, once again, this time wear a dress, and high heels to the conference, change your name to Janice, or Mary, or whatever. Also, bring a story about a tiny little girl, in a tiny little village, with all sorts of magical whatnots; something like that, see? Or, or….oooh, I know, make it about a rebel “highland rogue” type guy with good abs. Be sure to tell the agent your personal story of struggle about – who knows – dealing with an abusive husband, uh, uh, chronic fatigue syndrome, uh, you know, something you can share on Oprah. See? Easy! Path to success! Little engine that could sort of deal, tinged with a hint of the victim. You know, men? Don’t be such a whiner! Improve the total package, everything about yourself, (namely erase your masculinity) okay? And then! See? This, this stuff up here is what sells, see? Don’t you get that? Didn’t you get the memo! Clone JK Rolling, repackage, rewrite in a different setting, re-submit. Why? Because agents and publishers have lost their damned minds and think that nothing new or original will work, see? And they run the show as evidenced by the fact THEY tell YOU how to END YOUR STORIES! Not, how to improve flow, grammar et al; but HOW TO END THE THING!? If you are not willing to go through all of the above, bring a cake of cash in an envelope, just like on Sopranos, because (and this is mostly for the men) it’s the only shot you’ve got. Not that this process is actually working when it comes to the overall health of book publishing, reading, and writing.
We love that Janice is one of your success stories! At the Surrey International Writers' Conference, we do not charge extra for sessions with editors or agents -- they included with registration. Our 2009 conference takes place October 23-25th this year -- and we're looking for more success stories like Janice's! Details at www.siwc.ca
~kc dyer conference coordinator Surrey International Writers' Conference
Having attended the Surrey conference for years and being lucky enough to speak at it this year- I can attest they have a great conference. It's a great chance to meet some impressive authors in workshops and the pitch sessions do not cost extra.
Gordon, Kristin discussed her ideas with me about the ending before I singed with her. I just loved her ideas and knew they would make the book better. And what I changed was just detail stuff. The story never changed one bit, just how things played out to deepen what was already there.
Well, that's good news. I hope The Shifter does well along with the rest of the trilogy.
Plus, she never said, do this so that, just made suggestions on a more general thematic level and I ran with it.
Thematic level? I thought you said it was just details? But, whatever, it's your deal, and if you're happy with the end result, then great.
Publishing is a group effort. People will and do make suggestions, but in the end, all those suggestions are made with the sole purpose of making the book better.
So, who's the author then? Look, I'm not saying that editors and agents shouldn't point out mechanics, or contradictions, or timeline problems--that kind of stuff. In fact, that's what they're for, in my opinion. But to change things around to "make the book better" is kind of like what a screenwriter does. But that's a copyright that has to be granted by the "author" of the novel.
Publishing is indeed a group effort. Writing a novel is done alone. It is done to try to bring balance to the themes that have been branded onto us by our life experiences.
Otherwise, you have James Patterson. You have a trade name, not an authored work of art. That's all I'm trying to say.
And authors have the right to say no if they disagree. Lots of folks have made suggestions throughout this process, but the story has NEVER changed from my original vision.
Again, that's good news. I'm not sure how your agent can make thematic suggestions that you run with and the story not be changed from your original vision, but I'm sure you have that worked out. Don't you find it kind of strange though, that I know about it, and we're having this discussion? Be that as it may, I don't want anythnig I say to be construed as suggesting that the book is not a quality story that is well worth the money to buy and read. I'm sure it is.
And, again, I wish you the best of luck, and a sincere congratulations for having been published by a major publisher. I hope the trilogy really takes off.
Thanks Gordon, I have my fingers crossed for it as well.
Let me clarify what I meant by thematic level. Kristin never told me what to do with my theme in any way shape or form, she suggested something more like this (generalized of course to not give the ending away). “Is there a way to raise the stakes yet again, tying it into your theme and making it really personal for Nya?” She never gave me specifics, just a general thought. She liked my theme and thought I could use it to really add something powerful to the story as a whole. I then looked at what I had, and found a way to make the ending matter more to Nya and deepen the theme I’d already established, so it all tied together in an impactful way. The ideas were mine. The encouragement to push myself came from Kristin. And she was dead on, because my original ending didn’t raise the stakes. It was very similar to a major event that happens two-thirds of the way through the story. There was really no reason for the reader to keep reading past that point, because the stakes didn’t matter to Nya on a personal level. It was just plot form plot’s sake. Kristin saw that, I didn’t, and she thought changing how the ending unfolded would make it a better book and enhance the story I was already telling. And she was right. It’s a much better ending and one I would not have come up with had she not pushed me to think deeper.
At no time in my publishing experience has anyone EVER said: do xyz. I’m the author, it’s my story, it’s my vision. “Making the book better” is my phrase, and I made all the changes to it. If I didn’t agree with something and didn’t genuinely feel the story would be stronger because of that change, I didn’t do it. I made only the changes that made MY story better. And no one minded. My agent and editor are more like coaches, supporting me and encouraging me to jump a little higher, run a little faster, do one more sit up or stick that landing. How I do that is entirely up to me. These folks have vast experience in this, and I’d be a fool to ignore their advice. But how I apply it (if I decide to) is my call.
Selling your novel does not mean you give up control of it. You get opportunities to learn and grow as a writer from people who have been through this many, many times. I’ve found the process quite enjoyable and have learned a great deal about writing and storytelling. I know it’s made me a better writer, and I’ll bring that to the next book, and the next, and the next, and that’s what I want. To be able to continue to tell stories that people will enjoy reading. I’ll use everything I can to do that
That all sounds very positive. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me; you certainly didn't have to, so I appreciate that.
I don't typically read this genre, but I have it down for the 15th of October to buy a Kindle copy. I'm glad the publisher went with a Kindle version. It's much easier to read a book on Kindle.
Glad I could help. I think a lot of folks don't know how this all works (I know I didn't before I got into it all), and it can be scary thinking you'll have no control over something that matters so much to you.
I hope you enjoy it! Take care.
Anonymous said, on 10/2/2009 6:22:00 PM
"Guys, is your name Janice? Are you thirteen or can you pretend you are? If not. You’re out."
Seriously, men. If you aren't named Janice--if you're stuck with some piece-of-crap name like "Dan Brown" or "Stephen King," or even, God forbid, "Patrick Rothfuss" or "Garth Stein," you might as well just hang it up now because nobody will ever publish you.
Frisky said, on 10/3/2009 11:19:00 PM
Gordin and David: You sure are representing your sex admirably!
One of you is so certain of himself and his genius tales that he won't change a word. The other has just given up because poor men never get anywhere in the publishing world. Hmmm... wonder why J.K.Rowling used her INITIALS instead of her name, so she wouldn't be rejected because of her gender?
Not being willing to take constructive criticism is not artistic freedom, it's arrogance. Thinking that a man has to write "fluffy" stories about 13-year-olds is just nonsense. Men make more money writing and sell more books. Fact. Look at the bestseller lists.
But go ahead and tell yourselves whatever makes you feel better, while Janice enjoys her royalties on this and all the books to come.
STATUS: I had a routine Doctor’s appointment late this afternoon. The first thing the nurse asked me to do was step on the scale. Right. Exactly what I want to be doing the Monday after Thanksgiving.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? 21 GUNS by Greenday
I had an agent friend call me today because she was just feeling a tad blue. A client she had loved working with had unexpectedly decided to leave her agency last year. In the past couple of weeks, this agent friend had spotted the sale for the project they had been working on together before the author left.
That’s just hard.
But I had just the thing to cheer her up. I said, “You can’t help when a client chooses to leave. It happens. But at least you didn’t pass on a novel that has been on the New York Times Bestseller list for more than 16 weeks.”
Yep. Yours Truly.
That and a pot of tea cheered her up immensely!
Grin.
24 Comments on Brightening An Agent Friend’s Day, last added: 12/3/2009
Life is all about perspective, isn't it? Good friends always remind us of that!
Anonymous said, on 12/1/2009 4:59:00 AM
What? Kristin has made a boo boo? :(
Um, which book on the NTY bestseller list?
I think I'm turning into scrooge, though, because having been dumped (in a bad, bad way) by an agent before, I know there are two sides to every story. One can get caught up in losing a "sale" rather than the larger sorrow, which was losing the author's faith.
I think that's what can be so frustrating about this industry. All the time, we hear, "this industry is subjective." Sometimes, when I see this on a rejection letter I take it as encouragement. But other times, when I'm really frustrated (or I really wanted that agent) I pray I don't hear the word "subjective."
As writers, we send query letters to all our favorite agents, hoping beyond hope the agent likes our work. Agents, (and I'm just guessing here), have to sort through zillions of query letters to find the next best seller. But does anyone ever really know? It all comes back to that darned subjectivity thing again...
Fishermen have nothing on publishers when it comes to "the one that got away." But without those stories, how could we stay grounded in an intoxicating world like ours?
Ouch. Been there. I once passed on the opportunity to publish a game that sold over 2 million copies. Now I work for the company that didn't make the same mistake.
Life can bite at times, but good things come back to good people (that work that rear ends off).
I'm with you about stepping on the scale right after Thanksgiving!
I love your blog's friendly insights on the agenting side of things. It's helpful for me, as a writer, to remember that being an agent is a tough, often thankless job too. I hope the next client you pick up goes NYT#1. ;-)
A nice, hot cup of tea always makes me feel better. Tell you agent friend my heart goes out to her.
And, Agent Kristin, I'm sorry about yours, too. But I have to say that it gives me hope that when one agent turns my work away another just might fall in love with it. Thanks
Anonymous said, on 12/1/2009 10:28:00 AM
Your friend can be comforted in the knowledge that she knows a best-seller when she sees one. And when it does she will spot it.
Oh my goodness! Yeah, it just goes to show how subjective this business is. You read so many projects a day that you can never really know whether that project you reject will become the next big thing. I guess crap happens, but it's just kind of the way things are. You just gotta pick up and move on :)
Oh wow, that's a tough one. A client leaves, then the book sells? Oh boy, that's just a bummer.
Hey, can't win 'em all, right?
Anonymous said, on 12/1/2009 2:40:00 PM
I respect agents and the work they do, but so many pretend to be infallible. Glad to see you’re aware that you don’t always get it right and honest enough to admit it.
That sounds painful. At least the authors are the decent sort and not rubbing your nose in the fact that you passed.
And, who knows, maybe things wouldn't have worked out so well if you did agent those books. From what I understand the agent needs to be 100% behind a project to make it shine. If you passed, you had a reason. And that means you probably wouldn't have gotten behind the project 100%. And it probably wouldn't have done as well.
Be happy for the authors and go find something you love.
This business sure sounds like a whole lot of intuition and a whole lot of luck. Playing those odds you just can't win all the time. Glad for the ones that did make it for you.
STATUS: Back at the hotel for 30 minutes before I need to run out again.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? COME BACK TO ME by David Cook
I mentioned in our November newsletter a couple of weeks ago that Sara and I just absolutely loved a submission that came our way, offered rep, but alas the author went with another agent (as there were many agents interested).
I heard today that the project sold at auction for some money--with tons of houses bidding on it.
Ack. Hate that. But you know what? We tried for it; we were in the game. We loved it. Obviously lots of people agreed.
And for all of you, this is good news. This means Publishers are willing to step up to the plate for projects—something I was rather worried about as of late.
But truthfully, I wish editors hadn’t told me about it. Ignorance can be bliss…
LOL!
25 Comments on Things You Don’t Want to Learn While In New York!, last added: 12/4/2009
Oh wow! Looks like we'll be hearing a lot about that book in some time. Still, you can never win em all but that doesn't mean you won't win sometimes. :)
Just curious...what genre was that book in?
Anonymous said, on 12/2/2009 3:22:00 PM
what's the name of the project? I'm really curious!
Could you tell us if the author is a debut author or if they are previously published but didn't yet have an agent? Just curious and hope you're having fun.
But with your inspiration and leadership, I'm certain you'll get what books or deals you need to make you forget about this one. You’re in my top 3 agent wish list. I can only dream of you being my agent.
OK, so this one got intercepted, but you have great hands and there's no reason the next touchdown pass won't come your way. (Just finished writing a bio of a football player for a reference book, so that's where my head is today.) Anyway, enjoy your time in NYC.
But it must be a wonderful story for there to be that much interest--and the fact that it went for a good price too at auction.
I'll be curious to see what book it is when it comes out--do you think when it's published you'll be able to let us know? :)
Anonymous said, on 12/2/2009 9:00:00 PM
I'm sure you're still happy for the writer who sold in such a big, exciting way. And it's normal to be bummed that you weren't part of that process.
Thanks for blogging the good news. I've got a ms out right now, and am thrilled to hear publishers are opening their checkbooks. (Xing fingers and toes.)
I guess for an agent "the one that got away" has an especial poignancy to it. (Or is it pungency? Sometimes I confuse the two).
Anonymous said, on 12/3/2009 3:31:00 AM
Please do at least tell us the genre.
Nicole Chardenet said, on 12/3/2009 6:16:00 AM
Did it have vampires in it?
Shannon said, on 12/3/2009 6:51:00 AM
You've piqued my interest. Can you tell us a little more about the project that got so many publishers and agents interested? Specifically, I'm curious to know the genre and if the author is established or debut?
Thanks for sharing all of your insight. Keep fighting the good fight.
Though I have been reading your blog and newsletter for a time, I haven't yet dropped a comment. I'll begin here. Keep your chin up, eyes open and follow your heart - good things will come... but you knew that. Munk
Was it a love-story about teenage vampires? I hear they're all the rage at the moment... My local bookshop even has a section devoted to "supernatural romance" now.
Kristen, Just followed formally. Great--no unbelievable site. If they choose another Agent I would suspect they didn't read Pub Rant for the last 6 months. I'm impressed with you.
STATUS: Just a twinge of a cough remains. Kristin—9 flu—1
What’s playing on the iPod right now? HOME by Daughtry
Rumor has it that several of the big 6 publishers are coming out with new boilerplate contracts in the next couple of weeks. I know for sure that Hachette is working on a new one as is HarperCollins.
With these new “boilerplates,” I already know there is going to be a significant difference in opinion about what a Publisher thinks is a boilerplate item and what an Agent will consider as a boilerplate item versus a right that needs to be negotiated up front.
I have a feeling (call it intuition—snort) that the definition of what constitutes an “enhanced ebook” or a “multimedia product” (that’s a new catch phrase I’ve been hearing as of late) will be at the center of these new boilerplate contract debates between publishers and agents.
I, myself, have yet to see a new “boilerplate” contract but am waiting with bated breath… Oh being an agent is just daily fun.
Just thought you'd be interested to know that open-publisher Lulu.com has taken a huge leap towards creating the world's largest book store today by adding traditionally published books to their library. You can see the announcement from CEO Bob Young here: http://lulublog.com/2010/04/12/message-from-bob/
Huh, "multimedia product" could mean anything from a brochure with illustrations to a video card to an iPad. Googling that phrase gives you a vast array of random stuff. Very tricksy.
I'm glad I am a humble engineer who doesn't have to deal with this business trickery. I have no patience for such shenanigans.
Why a writer needs an agent. The terminology has become like reading a lawyer's document -- unintelligible except to the insider, and probably not then
By incorporating phrasing like "Multimedia Product" into the boilerplate, is this implying that such terms are non-negotiable for the publisher? In other words, they are just expecting authors to sign away all rights to any existing or forthcoming format, and unwilling authors just have to walk on the deal?
Is there anything about multimedia product clauses that limits transfer of medium (say, turning the book into a flash animation/game, just for sake of outlandish argument)? With language that broad, what even constitutes a transfer of medium beyond the scope of the contract?
Hi Kristin. I'm curious what royalty % publishers will pay authors. Considering that you can self publish an ebook and get up to 70%. J Konrath has lots to say about ebooks on his blog. I still see the benefits in having an agent, and I see how hard you all work, but newbie authors can make good money controlling their ebook rights.
If we put aside the quality of some self published books and concentrate on revenue, I think more writers will go down this path. Konrath has made me think about the traditional path of agent and publisher. Low priced good quality ebooks at 70% royalty. Makes me think.
Do you have an opinion you can share about this. What do you think is a fair royalty % for ebooks if the publisher has the rights.
I'm very interested to see how "multi media product" is defined. I have this company in my head called "Multi Story." The image is a multi-storied building. The first floor is the traditional book. The second floor includes the book plus an interview with the author (formatted for e-readers). The stories keep going until you reach the top floor--- will that be a movie, or a Wii game based on the book? I would love to see books presented with so many different options to experience them. I would also love to tap into my husband's database of investors and start such a company. Maybe some of your romance writers could give me tips on seduction... :-)
One of the downsides of being a non-New York agent is you can't arrange a meeting and pass your flu bug on to the publisher's staff. (Grin)
It's easy for me to say it because I'm not the one doing the work, but you and the other agents who debate with publishers over these boilerplate changes are going to help define 21st century publishing. So do good work, and, you know, no pressure.
Thanks for letting us know. It's worked out well for authors to hold on to some electronic rights, especially in the short fiction markets. But as the industry changes, it will be harder for authors to interpret what these rights are, and even worse if the industry as a whole doesn't know.
Different definitions for those things?? Ya'll in the publishing industry must still be behind the times in ho you can make your content work for you... when I started as a tech writer in 1998 the move was just happening in manuals to move to PDFs rather than printed materials, and we've been dealing with it since. It's not a lot of effort to take one source and plug it into multiple formats to generate two totally different end products... you can take something authored in Word, plug it into two different InDesign templates and hit the generate button... two different outputs (note: I live in a world where Adobe Acrobat is king). Seriously... there are a lot of out of work technical writers who could generate different formats in their sleep (or at least on a Monday morning before the coffee kicks in). Look outside the box!
What’s playing on the iPod right now? STAY UP LATE by Talking Heads
From a lot of my posts lately, I imagine that you think all my recent conversations with contract directors at the big houses have been contentious.
In reality, that hasn’t been so. I have to say, that I personally like all the contracts directors at the major houses. They are under the gun and yet they’ve handled differences of opinions with good temper, grace, and with reason—even if I don’t agree with their stance.
In fact, one of the contract directors from a big six house even made me spit coffee and sputter with laughter in our last conversation.
When I mentioned that I didn’t agree with the 25% of net publishers were currently sticking with and that I was not inclined to accept the same percentage if we were to negotiate an expanded or enhanced electronic book, the director, totally deadpanned, quipped in return that I must obviously share his opinion that the split percentage to the author should be lower for an enhanced ebook as they are more expensive to produce.
I was so surprised that I just burst out laughing as did my contracts manager. You gotta respect a contracts director with a sense of humor. Grin.
That's hilarious. I also love that as an adult I find the nerdiest stuff funny. I made a joke about encryption to a computer programmer the other day. And then I shook my head.
You really do need a sense of humor to make it through the day. There are too many crinkly eyebrows in every day dealings. Hooray for a good sense of humor. I love hearing that. There's hope.
I guess someone has to type all of those 1's and 0's. I'm afraid you may get more of the same from other publishers. Just try not to spit coffee on them. ;-)
But pound for pound, an ebook is more expensive to produce! Let's assume a $30 hardback that weighs half a pound costs $5 to produce. That makes it $10/lb. Now let's be generous and say a $15 ebook that weighs nothing (because bits are weightless) costs a penny to produce. (And don't your publishers wish they could pull that off?) That still makes it infinite dollars per pound.
Love it! This also highlights the importance of having an agent who has such positive working relationships with others in the business - even when they disagree.
STATUS: It’s been a little quiet. Fewer emails than normal. Let’s me get stuff done!
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? DREAMGIRL by Dave Matthews Band
Ah, I just so love torturing my blog readers. Just to be nice, I’m doing my blog entry early today.
So as I mentioned yesterday, the one thing everyone else wants to know is why did the editor change her mind and decide to offer for a book she had initially passed on?
Before I answer that question, here’s another fun facet. A day or two after I got that call from the editor who originally passed but now was offering for the book, this same work received another offer from an editor at another house.
All this after the project had been on submission for a little while. It’s like one offer knocked the universe open for the other.
So not only did we have one offer, we had two. There is no better place for an author to be. So I had the author do phone conferences with each interested editor. Get their vision for launching the title. For us, it just wasn’t about the advance. We wanted to be with the editor who best “got” the book—especially given the unique circumstances of one of the offers. Ultimately, the author did go with the editor who originally had passed.
So why did that editor change her mind?
She couldn’t stop thinking about the project and decided she had been wrong to pass on it. She figured out how to do the book and once that answer was clear to her, she called me to offer for three books—not just one.
The author and I were super pleased. After all, when we were working on the novel, we totally had this one editor in mind for it. We were actually flummoxed when she passed as we thought it was tailor-made for her.
So, I love an editor who can say, “hey, I was wrong. Is the book still available and if so, I’m going to offer right now for it. On top of that, I’m going to show you some serious commitment by offering for more than one book.”
And I’m just saying I’m around today if any other editors want to call me about past submissions they passed on…
42 Comments on Best. Story. Ever. (Part II), last added: 6/12/2010
This, this is why I love the business. Because you never know what could happen, so you should never give up if publishing is your dream. Great story and fantastic news for both of you. Congratulations!! :D
This is a great story- for you, the author, and that editor. We often hear the negative sides of publishing, it's great to see the positive side. And I'm very impressed with that editor's actions.
So lets hope sometime soon you have a Best.Story.Ever.(Part III) ;)
Any story that can stick with an editor like that (as-is before editorial input, no less) is sure to stick with a reader, as well, and that's a killer combination for novel.
Congrats to the writer and you (and the editor, too).
Wow. This story reinforces that editors really do LOVE stories. Maybe her allergies were making her miserable that first day, but once the antihistamines kicked in... :)
This post reminded me of something I read on another blog the other day. I had never considered that something like that would happen, and wondered if you had experienced it and if so, whether you would extrapolate.
Your author just got a deal for three books. So she's written the first. She goes and writes the second. Then the house doesn't like it. They reject it.
How does that work? Does the author have to keep churning book after book until the house finds something they like?
After all this, you are going to tell us what book it is, right? I totally want to hear about the kind of book that an editor can't get out of her head months after the fact.
It's great to hear a story that offers up hope. Question: Does this ever happen to agents? Have you ever contacted the author of a work you rejected and asked for a second look?
I've been reading myself numb with horror stories of the industry, and it's nice to hear the good stories as well. I've been waiting for this part of the story with great anticipation, thanks for sharing it.
Great story, Agent K! Now tell me this, have you ever had a first time author try to avoid a multiple book deal? As in offered a three book deal and preferred to only go with the book that was ready? And how do editors and publishing houses react to such a thing?
What a wonderful happy-ever-after that is -- I hope it keeps getting happier for the author, you, and the publisher!
On the other hand, for me it just stinks, because the next time I get a 'no', I'll still be hanging around the phone waiting for someone to possibly *change her mind* LOL
Ha! This has been my recurring dream about agents, that one who rejected me after the partial will realize that there was too much promise there, and despite the necessary elbow grease it would be worth it to take me on.
This put a smile on my face. So nice to have a door opened that had previously been shut. Congratulations to both you and the author and I second those that would like to know what book this is so we can look out for it in the future
Billie D. said, on 6/9/2010 6:26:00 AM
Don't know if this question has already been asked or addressed(and please forgive me if it has). But I was wondering: Was this author a "debut" author by any chance? Or, did this author already have a book (or books)previously published?
Just curious if this *too*, might have added to the editor's new vision for this author's work.
And of course, HUGE congrats either way, to Kristin and the author for this remarkable story.
STATUS: I think we managed to conquer my home tech issues.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? 6 O’CLOCK NEWS by Kathleen Edwards
So much of what an agent does on a daily basis is rather subtle and not written into the job description per se. For example, today I changed an editor’s mind. She was only going to offer for one book and I talked her into going back to her boss and getting permission to offer for two.
Now this didn’t happen just because I asked her to. This happened for a couple of reasons: 1) I gave her good ammunition to use in persuading her boss to reconsider and give the okay and 2) because we’ve had a business relationship for years and the editor trusts that I’m not just blowing hot air when I say that I will make XYZ happen.
In all the discussions about agents and what we do, I’ve never heard this particular aspect spotlighted--that part of our value is in our established relationships with editors—and not just in terms of getting submissions read or larger advances offered for projects etc. because that I do hear a lot of times.
Today was not the flashy stuff but equally as important. And every agent I know does this kind of stuff regularly.
11 Comments on Not The Flashy Stuff, last added: 6/18/2010
Then that's all the more reason to appreciate an agent. Really, it's too bad these things aren't talked about. I think if you work this hard, you should definitely get the credit for it. Your clients are lucky to have you. In fact, anybody who gets an agent who works as hard as you seem to is very fortunate.
As one who sits on that particular side of the desk, I can attest to the fact that great agents can do many great things. Establishing relationships is Step 1. Consistently bringing top dog work is Step 2. Staying involved with the production process is Step 3.
All those elements go into creating trust - which is all important in this business, and there are agents for whom I drop my margarita because I trust them.
I have no doubt that you engender trust within the hearts and minds of the editors you work with. Brava!
STATUS: I was “this close” to getting to everything on my TO DO list today.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? MY WAY by Frank Sinatra and Willie Nelson
Last year, a fellow agent friend and I gave a workshop on doing a single-book contract versus a multi-book contract. I was a little surprised at how many writers showed up for it. Hey, maybe these would make a few good blog entries.
First Q: When is doing a single-book contract ideal and when is a multi-book contract best?
Answering this question takes into consideration a lot of different factors. Let’s start with the obvious. If you write genre fiction, it’s almost always to an author’s advantage to do a multi-book contract.
For example, if you write fantasy and the first book being sold is the first in an envisioned trilogy, well, it would be better to have the publisher commit to three books. That way the entire series has a shot of being published. It often takes several books for a series to pick up momentum. What’s important is the publisher commitment—even if in the end a series does well and it was “undersold” initially in terms of the advance.
More common case is that a series has to build over time with the subsequent books and then the books start to earn out. Besides, who wants to sell book 1 in a trilogy only to be left in a lurch if the publisher doesn’t pick up the other books? It’s not easy (read "nearly impossible) to sell books 2 & 3 to another house. If sales are sluggish, it’s really unlikely another house will pick it up.
For another genre such as romance, careers build best if an author can release books within 6 to 8 months from each other. That means really tight schedules/deadlines for the author to make that work so doing multi-book contracts make sense. It’s also best to do multi if the stories are “linked” (as in they stand alone but have characters that might have been introduced in first novel).
Is there an advantage or disadvantage for doing 2 books vs. 3 or 4? Sure. Lots of agents differ on their opinion of this so I can only speak for myself. In general for me, the number of books sold at one time depends on the author (how fast he/she can write), on the project (how many books envisioned) and whether I think the author was undervalued. What I mean by that is if the offer was initially too low for a 3 or 4 book deal or if I thought the monies should have been higher in the auction and I don’t want to lock the author in for too many books at the lower rate. Obviously, reverse is true. If the monies are good, then why not lock in for more books as the commitment is strong from the publisher.
As you can see, lots of factors at play. How does an agent know? We’ve been doing this long enough that we pretty much use our gut sense of what feels right as the offer unfolds. I’ve yet to be wrong.
I’ll talk about single-book contract tomorrow.
16 Comments on One Book or Two? Maybe Three?, last added: 6/22/2010
Stella and Erinn, what I've heard is that you should make the first book strong enough it can stand on its own, but has series potential. Then you query saying exactly that--written as a stand alone with series potential. Hope that helps!
Thanks for the post, Kristin! I think as writers we tend to look very favorably on multi-book deals, and forget that the advance money needs to be a good sum for all those books. I guess that's one more reason we need agents!
For a first time author, is it best to stay away from series all together?
The sort of series I'm referring to would be similar to The Inheritance Cycle or Lord of the Rings (an extreme example), where the story isn't complete until the end of the last book, so the first book queried couldn't be stand alone.
I ask because I'm currently working on a book which I'm not sure I can fit into the fantasy guidelines of 110k words, and is looking more and more likely to span two full length novels. Is this going to cause a problem when I get to the query process?
I was wondering if you would offer a critique of someones query letter? I wrote my first novel and showed some old army buddies. They showed their friends, and, well, they all pooled together for a line editor for me. Now that the novel is in that stage I was wondering if it was time for me to start putting together a query letter. I've got a lot of people betting on me, so I want to do them right. Would you be willing to critique a query letter in private? I don't want to give away a ending before it publishes. The first two short stories I wrote were accepted to magazines and I have two new ones I am going to send out. I'm about to undertake my second novel, but I am afraid of doing to much writing and not enough agent searching. Any help would be great.
I am reading your blog and it will be helpful when I get to the right stages.
I hope you have a wonderful day,
Draven Ames
Anonymous said, on 6/22/2010 6:01:00 AM
"the first book queried couldn't be stand alone"
Each book needs to work as an individual unit, though. Star Wars, say, is a good example of a standalone film that very clearly would justify sequels if the demand is there. One of the ways it does that is by hinting at a bigger picture - the main one, though, is it works so darn well as an individual movie.
So, rather than try to commit a publisher to ten books before, show them one brilliant one.
Think of this from the readers' point of view. If your story *really* doesn't work until they finish book ten ... well, are they going to stick around that long?
Concentrate on the first book. Get that right and the sequels will look after themselves.
Query/agent research is a snip :) First visit queryshark (http://queryshark.blogspot.com/) and read the six years of query critiques. This will give you an idea of the dos and don'ts of query writing. Then read the blogs and websites of agents who represent the type of book you have written. Then you're ready to write your own query, and submit your manuscript. Good luck!
If you are a genre writer- specifically fantasy, what if you don't have a series? I am in final edits to a story that I consider complete, stand alone. I am sure the characters still have adventures and trials, but I am very happy with where they end and have no further inspiration with them. Also, the novel is around 85k (in final edits, so might move a little from that but not much). Can I get such a short, stand alone fantasy book published?
Another point you may want to cover with the multibook contract are some of the contract land mines you want to avoid like having all of the royalties held until all of the author's books in that contract have earned out.
Claudine said, on 6/22/2010 12:32:00 PM
Kristin, how long on average does it take for editors to respond to you with an answer, one way or the other, after you've submitted a manuscript to them? Thanks very much!
Thanks for talking about this; my project happens to be a YA/urban fantasy series, so of course I'm looking at multi-books...it'll be cool to know hos this works. You always talk about the right stuff. :)
STATUS: A nice and productive day. I think I want summer hours though. Leave by 1. Play in the sunshine. I know Chutney is all for it.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? DO YOU SLEEP by Lisa Loeb
Today let’s tackle the single book contract. What are the advantages and disadvantages to doing just a one-book deal? Considering what we discussed yesterday, it seems ludicrous to sell just one book!
Well, not really. Most one-book deals are for literary fiction and occasionally for what we would call the “big” commercial literary fiction. Commercial literary fiction is really just literary fiction that has a commercial hook or slant. For example, WATER FOR ELEPHANTS is a good example of commercial literary. Or TIME TRAVELER’S WIFE. Or HOTEL ON THE CORNER OF BITTER AND SWEET.
Does this make sense?
And there are lots of reasons to do a one-book deal.
1. Literary fiction takes longer to write. Sometimes it’s not feasible to write a second book on a prescribed deadline so authors will contract one book at a time. Wally Lamb (SHE COMES UNDONE) is kind of known for never selling a book until it’s written and then he sells that one book only.
2. A one-book contract can alleviate the pressure on the author. The sophomore effort can be a tricky thing. I know from experience that every author hits a stumbling block with that second novel and it really doesn’t matter the genre you write in.
3. Literary fiction—especially those that lean commercial—often get undersold initially and then break out big later. If there is a sense that that could happen, why lock the author in for a certain amount of money?
4. The author might not have a second novel to propose and he/she just doesn’t want to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. And the author might take 10 years to write next literary novel. It happens.
5. If the author’s editor leaves and there is just a one-book contract, it can make it cleaner for the author to follow his/her editor to a new house. One’s editor tends to be really important in literary fiction. There is a certain trust that can be very beneficial to the literary writer.
Now having mentioned these things, you can kind of see the flipside to the argument.
1. A two-book contract might be preferred if there is a lot of hype and a book sells for a lot of money and then doesn’t perform. How nice would it be to have a commitment to two books already lined up if that’s the case? A chance of redemption or getting those numbers back up.
2. A Publisher may delay acquisition of a future book until they have sales figures for the first book. Since books easily take 18 months to publish, it’s a long time to wait to get a new contract—especially if the author is trying to earn a living here.
28 Comments on The One-Book Deal, last added: 6/25/2010
I had the same question. I thought of Dan Brown and how he had more success with THE DA VINCI CODE than he did with ANGELS AND DEMONS, which he'd written first. Just one example, but it'd be great to have the "stumbling blocks" clarified. :)
Are several "stand alone" novels ever sold as a multiple book contract? I understand selling a series in a multiple book contract, but there are a lot of non-literary books that stand alone. I am currently querying a contemperary YA novel and writing a second. The second novel doesn't have any common characters with the first and both books are meant to stand alone. Do publishers actually give multiple book deals to writers like me? I always assumed I'd be selling each book individully.
Aww, does that mean no more Jamie Ford? Or is he off writing for ten years?
This is interesting though. I mean, all authors' nightmares consist of books not selling a dime and them never being published again. Those two-book deals don't seem too bad for those writing single novels.
But, like said, I won't worry. YA series and various other novels to share. I could never write literary or nonfiction if I was forced-fed poison...well, I could, but it'd be awful. BTW, though this would be cool for you to know - there was this contest I was enterering to win some awesome YA books, and one was "GIVE UP THE GHOST". And one of the questions to get it was "What was your favorite kiss scene in any YA book?" Not only was PERFECT CHEMISTRY mentioned (a given) but so was THE DEMON'S LEXICON! Three in one blog post! :)
Kristin--I'm a genre (fantasy) writer. My current goal is to eventually get a novel published but I already know I'm not one of those writers who can write to a deadline, and many of my fantasy projects are looking to be standalones. I don't intend to sign a mutli-book contract if I can help it at all, but I can think of only one fantasy author who isn't writng copious numbers of novels (Robin McKinley). How likely is it that I'd be able to get a one book contract, for each book as I finish it, instead of having to do a multi-book one and failing miserably?
I think I'd prefer one book deals, I'd rather have a book written and available than all the stress of writing to a deadline - that wouldn't be creatively inspiring
Gosh, you're gorgeous in that photo! Wow. Mama mia. I so love mature women. Thank God! I will see you Upstairs in the Great Beyond for my BIG-OL party for years and years celebrating our resurrection!! Very cool. Can't wait...
Can you talk a little bit more about why an editor is more important to a literary fiction author than to a genre author? Is the nature of the editor different (ie, does the editor of a literary fiction novel do something different than a genre editor)?
I've heard of various writers struggling to write a second book because now there is more pressure to be as good or better as the first book.
The first book is something you can take as long as you want to write and edit--while the second you might be under the gun to produce...or just feel a creative block, especially after you've been in the editing mode for so long.
Thanks for posting on this, Kristin. It really is comforting to know that not every agent will press a writer to take a multi-book contract if such a contract doesn't work for that writer's needs.
Personally I'd rather build my reputation one high-quality book at a time than rush out with a second or third book that just isn't ready.
I have a question for you. I've done a lot of research on the publishing market, and that includes self publishing. In a blog about self publishing (http://www.fonerbooks.com/contract.htm), I read the following statement:
Here the author grants the publisher the right to publish the work, as protected by copyright law. For most authors this means the exclusive worldwide rights, including all derivative works, etc.
I understand that it's natural for the publisher to own the right to publishing the books, but all derivative works as well? Does this mean that if I write my fantasy series and manage to sell the trilogy to a publisher, I can't ever write anything else from that world or use those unique magical characters I've created and sell it to another publisher (if the trilogy publisher doesn't want to buy it)? Or even just write short stories and publish it on my webpage or whatnot?
Very interesting post. I'm thinking maybe I'm pitching my YA novel wrong. Maybe it should be classified as literary like "Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet."
I'll have to think about that.
Anonymous said, on 6/23/2010 11:32:00 AM
Yes, I also want to know the answer to Katie's question @ 9:21 -- what about that?
Love this post, this is the crap no one else talks about!
This is great information. I'm currently writing a novel and if I manage to sell it, I already know I would lean toward a one book deal. I think the second book is such a huge undertaking and I could never write it on deadline. I firmly believe the quality would suffer and I'd hate to have a crappy sophomore novel because I had to rush the process.
My last fantasy contract was a single book contract because it was the last book in as series and we wanted a clean break between book five of the last series and the beginning of the next. Current contract is three books.
Lucy said, on 6/23/2010 1:08:00 PM
@ Tessa
I'm not up on the finer points of contract, but I would not sign anything that looked like that. For starters, agents often hold back and manage foreign rights separately. In such a case, a U.S. publisher would only get North American rights. Another point is that you should hold onto film and certain other subsidiary rights wherever possible--another thing your agent can help with.
"All derivative works" is an insane clause (unless a list of derivative works is given and has limitations). Theoretically you couldn't even publish a short story based on your novels without their permission.
This is why you need, need, NEED a good agent.
If you're going to self-publish, it makes more sense to be a true self-publisher, where you do the dealing with the printers, designers, etc., pay full costs and retain full control of your rights. Otherwise you may end by giving up more than you want for a package of services that does less than you hoped for.
That helps. Thanks so much :) And yes, self-publishing is my last resort. First is to try to get an agent. Second to get a publisher. If neither work, I'll re-write the story and try again. If that doesn't work then I might look into self-publishing.
I think the best thing to do in this situation if a writer insists on a one book deal is put in a solid option for the second book in the contract.
This will keep your options open, if they choose to write a second book, you get "First Dibs" on the deal. Throw in better terms than the first to get the author interested b/c you are only going to want to publish the second book if the first one performs anyway.
What’s playing on the XM or iPod right now? WE DON’T TALK ANYMORE by Cliff Richard
I get that a good majority of you might be thinking “could I just get to that place where I’m asking agents questions because they want to rep me” but in the event that you do, I think there is one more question you should add to your list:
Do you enjoy agenting and do you see yourself being an agent for the long-term?
Now, of course, an agent can always agree in an enthusiastic affirmative and still leave 6 months or a year later but I imagine authors don’t often ask this question. The answer could be interesting or telling. (Or it might not.)
I bring it up because I recently read about an agent leaving the agenting biz to take an in-house publishing job.
Big deal, right? Well, not really but we here at NLA were kind of bummed because this agent-no-longer had landed a client or two that we had been vying for when the author was on submission to agents.
This doesn’t mean that they would necessarily have gone with us at the time if the author had asked that question.
But do you really think an agent would answer, "Actually, I plan to leave in six months?" Knowing that this would mean that the author probably wouldn't sign with them, wouldn't it basically put them out of work until they decided to leave for the next job?
Maybe I'm being overly cynical, though. It's definitely a question I'd like to ask!
Anonymous said, on 8/26/2010 6:48:00 PM
Well probably, had those clients asked that agent at the time, she would have replied that of course she planned to continue agenting.
That is a great question to ask, especially since it'll have such a huge impact on the client(s). I've been hearing a lot of stories about agents just dropping off the face of the earth or moving up, so I think it's a nice thing to consider whether you'll be together for a while or whether that won't be the case. I'd definitely want someone to be with me throughout my entire career, and if the agent doesn't think that'll happen, I should get a heads up, I think.
Anonymous said, on 8/26/2010 7:25:00 PM
Agents don't make a salary; they live on commissions.
Newer agents, those without a track record, while they may be looking to build a client list and therefore easier to connect with for a new writer, may also be a risky bet.
Especially in the current economic climate. How do they survive? Most have other jobs. If they don't make it within a year, they leave. No choice. Not an easy business in which to survive, let alone succeed.
Great question to ask. Just as agents probably want to know how we envision our careers five, ten years down the road, we should want to know the same thing about them.
I wonder how often this happens, especially since a lot of agents used to be editors.
That seems a valid question, but it's possible that someone wouldn't anticipate a career switch in six months (or job switch within the same industry).
I could see several situations where a person is going along just fine, and then finds either another opportunity that simply feels right or things don't work out as hoped - and a change is needed.
I guess it seems like your post is suggesting that the agent was not forthcoming about her or his career plans. That might not have been the case. But maybe I read the post the wrong way.
Anonymous said, on 8/26/2010 9:09:00 PM
A valid question along similar lines is this: "Do you agent full-time?"
This happened to a friend of mine a few years ago, but his agent was independent so he was faced with the prospect of starting all over again to look for representation. It was pretty sobering.
I agree with other comments that suggest that an agent may not be able to anticipate how her/his career or life is going to unfold ... life is uncertain, after all, if it weren't what would we write about?
Might it be appropriate to ask an agent what the authors relationship would be to an agency if the agent herself left? And to follow up -- assuming the answer involves an author's obligation to stick with the agency for the term of a contract -- with questions about how the author should expect to be represented if other agents in the agency don't feel as enthusiastic about the author's work?
A few years ago, an agent offered to represent me. This person was based in the midwest, but since Kristin is as well, I decided that alone should not be held against her. However, there were a few other red flags, namely that she was extremely new, had gone into the business initially to represent her friend, and had only one or two sales to just one publisher. She was nice as kittens -- not a predator -- and there were no other agents fighting over me, (more's the pity), but I decided not to go with her because I was afraid her interest in agenting was only a passing fancy.
I was right. She is no longer in the business. Yet she was very enthusiastic at the time.
Anonymous said, on 8/26/2010 11:03:00 PM
I have to agree, it really won't help you to ask this question of the agent. But I do think that when you evaluate an agent you must take into account how long they have been in the business and what the rest of their agency is like.
Your contract will state what happens to you if the agent leaves the agency. Typically, you are reassigned to another agent in house. That is never as good as having an agent who picked you herself, but may still work out.
Ouch! A few weeks ago, I was wondering the same thing about Colleen Lindsay's clients when she left being an agent. And I continued to wonder about other agents who have other preoccupations like writing as well or into business, what if they left suddenly? Well, here's my answer.
Anonymous said, on 8/27/2010 6:09:00 AM
Call me a cynic, but if an agent really wants your ms, they're not going to answer anything but what you want to hear, no matter what the question is.
Anonymous said, on 8/27/2010 7:52:00 AM
When you're interviewing agents as a way of choosing between offers, in a lot of cases, the answer doesn't really matter, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask the question. To wit:
Q: Do you see yourself still agenting in six months? a year?
Possible A1: Absolutely! I love it! I was born to agent and I can't imagine not waking up every morning looking forward to working with authors!
Possible A2: Sure, of course I do, it's great. You can count on me.
Possible A3: What? That's none of your business.
None of these answers guarantee that the agent will still be around in three years -- nothing can! -- but they all tell you something about the person you're talking to, and that factors into your decision.
The best story I have here is the young agent who called me after I submitted to tell me she was getting out of the business because she couldn't handle all the rejection.
I'm going to be so good here, because I know exactly who you are talking about.
I wish the clients who had to deal with this all the best. If nothing else, it's a very good experience in the area of anything can happen in publishing :))
The first client I signed actually asked me that, and I gotta say, it threw me. Not because I wasn't sure but because I couldn't even fathom not continuing to be an agent. I thought I was the luckiest person in the world to be an agent assistant at my agency and the idea of leaving was just unthinkable.
Still is, of course, only now I know that that is a valid question because some agents do leave. Even if I can't fathom it myself. :)
Thought I'd just step in here and end some of this speculation since I'm one of the authors being referred to. I'll admit I dislike the way some of these comments are going and while I can't fault anyone for forming whatever opinions they have, please understand that for the most part, the client-agent relationship is private, and really should remain that way.
Gossip benefits no one.
I went with Colleen because I thought she was the best fit at the time. Within 36 hours of going on submission, I went to auction. About a week later, I landed a 3 book deal at Pocket.
And yes, I have a new agent at Fine Print - Suzie Townsend. I'm perfectly happy with that.
For those of you wondering if I didn't do my homework, please note that I had 4 fabulous agents who had made offers and about a week in which to make a decision. I spent several hours talking to Colleen on the phone and via email. (As I did all the rest of the agents.) Many questions were asked and answered.
It was a nerve-wracking, wondrous experience.
It was not a decision I made lightly and in the end, I went with my gut.
Every author's circumstances are different - how they get to where they are, the choices they make, the luck of the draw. It's unfair to make comparisons after the fact, because no, you will *never* know what might have happened if you chose a different path.
Things change.
Life happens.
Hindsight makes everything look rosier.
One thing I *can* guarantee?
Had I asked Colleen if she would still be an agent in six months, she would have said yes - because the doctor hadn’t told her she had cancer yet.
http://murraychronicles.tumblr.com
hanillas said, on 8/28/2010 12:58:00 PM
Awesome. I'll throw this in the same pile as my ideas for surviving on a desert island and things to buy when I win the lottery.
One agent who was handling two of my screenplays (based on novels I had written) had a nervous breakdown after she lost her father and a son a week apart in an auto accident and, advised by her doctor, closed down her agency that she ran successfully for years.
Life sometimes gets in the way of good careers. Hers, and, perhaps, mine. I often wonder where I would be right now had she optioned or sold one of those screenplays that she was in love with. That was 13 years ago, and soon after I began teaching full time at a university and went through a divorce/custody battle and writing or marketing my work, especially my screenplays and novels, for the most part, got derailed.
Recently I opted to walk away from teaching and I'm back to rewriting those novels and screenplays right now...
Wow, this really makes me think.
Thanks, it's time for me to move on (obviously!) and get back on the saddle in a big way; I can't do anything about the past, but I definitely can about my writing future, this second time around...
Status: It’s pouring rain and the temps feel anything like spring but I’m eating ice cream right now anyway.
What’s Playing on the XM or iPod right now? DON’T GIVE UP ON ME NOW by Ben Harper
Today we officially wrapped up our negotiations on the new Macmillan boilerplate contract. It only took 6 months, 2 weeks, and 3 days from start to finish. It was worth it to get a decent contract.
Oddly enough I was excited to sell yet another book to a Macmillan imprint. THAT contract will only take several weeks. All the heavy lifting is done.
Then I get a new Random House contract in. Basically the same except for 2 rather key clauses that come at the very end of the contract but are referenced throughout.
Great. Publishers will certainly let you reserve rights but are now inserting clauses that hamstring the author from exploiting those reserved rights.
This seems to be the latest fashion.
13 Comments on Tales From The Contract Wars, last added: 5/20/2011
Wow, I'm curious what percentage of agents don't take the massive effort required to work out these "kinks" in the contracts? Where does that leave their authors?
Since you once mentioned that you don't lots of comments on these type of posts, let me say that reading this stuff makes me very happy there are agents like you that look very carefully at such things!
Anonymous said, on 5/20/2011 4:50:00 AM
When authors leave traditional publishers in droves and agents reinvent themselves as editors and marketers as the whole thing goes to self-pubbing, I am not going to feel bad for the crumbling corporations who bought this on themselves...
I'm very pro-traditional publishing, but each time I hear about these kinds of changes, the less I feel I want to work with people like that. And I work for a publisher! Agent or no, there's a line between "good business" and "exploitative business."
Caroline said, on 5/20/2011 6:44:00 AM
When you have those 'gotcha' clauses, how do you get them out? And what advice do you give clients if the publisher refuses to budge?
One agent I asked dismissed concerns over some things that looked sketchy by saying "publishing doesn't work like that, they're not out to get you," and basically blamed it on a hyper Legal dept. Given that most agents are not attorneys, I've begun to wonder if many agents just don't GET what the contract is really saying.
I'm hoping any agent I am lucky enough to get is at least as diligent as you are, Kristin. Even the one ePub contract I signed had things in it I should never had allowed through.
AAR is having this great series on contracts this summer. The first one was all the things cropping up in boilerplates, and this issue came up. Oh more battles to wage.
One takeaway was that it can now pay to see a publisher's boilerplate before accepting a deal, taking it into consideration when choosing between publishers. Definitely something to keep in mind.
Veeery interesting, particularly with some of the publisher-agent-contract talk popping up in the blogosphere in the past couple of weeks. One gets the feeling that authors new and established really have to watch their backs in the legal dept. In case you had any doubts, Kristin, contract talk is *not* boring.
Remarkably absent in all the talk about how to "save" traditional publishing is the simple concept of treating the creator as a partner.
If traditional publishers had actually offered fair terms to their legacy authors instead of the current insults, the authors or their heirs would have stayed.
If traditional publishers were true partners, established authors wouldn't be leaving to self-publish.
Even some agents now are as abusive as the publishers have become.
It would be truly lovely if all those who make their money off our creative effort realized they should be gardeners tending a rose garden of creators and creations, not rose maggots and bugs destroying everything in their path.
For anyone who wants to read about what some of us are alluding to, I suggest Kristine Rusch's business section articles at http://kriswrites.com/
I hope Random House doesn't make things too difficult to negotiate. Is there anything you can share about the way they're hamstringing authors, so we know yet more things to watch out for if/when we all get our own contracts someday?
And thanks for doing this on behalf of the authors you currently represent!
Marilynn, thanks for referring us to that link. I'll read it, but I've already heard plenty of other things and have to agree with Joseph, David, and Anonymous, that publishers are shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of stuff.
I'm taking it all in and weighing my options. This all makes me wonder how long will traditional publishing remain traditional?
What’s playing on the iPod right now? LONG HOT SUMMER by Style Council
It sometimes happens that a writer lands an agent, goes on submit, but then the agent gives up after just a short time or a few submissions.
Personally, I can’t figure out what the agent was thinking. Why bother taking on someone if you don’t think you can commit for the long haul? Besides, every agent I know has a story of getting 30+ rejections and finally selling the book. It only takes one! Such a cliché but often true. I’ve even heard of agents taking up to 2 years and 5 years to sell a project.
But that’s an aside. Let’s say this has happened to you (as awful as that would be). Here’s the info you need to be an animal about getting from that former agent. Bug that person with emails and phone calls (politely of course—I always advocate being professional and polite) but do annoy them until you get the exact names of the editors who saw the work and the imprints/houses. And if you can get the responses, that’s even better!
Why?
Because if a new agent is going to take you on, it’s imperative to have that info. (And just about every agent I know has taken on at least one client who has been previously submitted so it happens.)
Here are a couple of reasons why we need the info:
1. If I have the submit list in hand while contemplating offering representation, I can clearly see if I think the former agent sent the work to the right editors or not. If they haven’t, heck, I’ve got a clear field and can probably sell the work by getting the project into the right hands.
2. Having the info allows me to weigh my decision on whether I think there are enough viable other places to take it to.
3. The editor list lets me see if an editor has left publishing or has moved to another house and suddenly, I’ve got a clear shot at that imprint again. It’s musical chairs in publishing.
4. The editor list allows me to pinpoint an editor who has already seen it (maybe a year or more ago) and I can sway him or her to look at it again if we’ve done a big enough revision on it that I can pitch it like new.
5. Some editors are notoriously bad at never responding and if that’s the case and I see that on the list (and the responses you have—or lack thereof), I can target a different editor at that imprint and it’s like submitting fresh.
6. There’s nothing worse than not knowing that a project you took on was previously shopped and you, the agent, now have egg on your face when an editor writes and tells you that they’ve seen it before and it was NO then and it’s still NO now. Ouch. That pisses me off and so if you have the editor list, then you can give it to me before this can happen.
Not to mention, it’s your right to know who has seen your manuscript, who turned it down, and what they said about it so even if you are parting ways, get that info. Most agents (I hope) are good people and happy to give you that info as a matter of course but if the agent isn’t doing it, be wonderfully annoying and politely make it clear that you will continue your inquiry until they do. They may just send it your way to make you go away!
39 Comments on Get Specific Names, last added: 5/22/2009
I appreciate your list of reasons why you, as an agent, would want this type of information. I've heard agents mention it's so they know how much a project has already been shopped, but these specifics illuminated some angles I hadn't considered before.
I've read multiple times that before signing with an agent, you should ask for a client list and possibly talk to some of those authors. Assuming that is acceptable protocol, it seems like it could be a good indicator of whether an agent is likely to give up on you after only a few attempts. (Of course, if they are, it'd be better to have a list of *former* clients and find out if this is why they parted ways.)
I always give verbatim feedback to authors within 24 hours of receiving it, but I don't give names, just imprints. If we part ways, I give out names only to the author's new agent. Same thing if I take on an author who has been previously represented: I ask the author if I may call his/her previous agent and get the info. I think it's better when it's agent-to-agent. As an agent, I feel more confident that I'm getting the right info, and I feel more comfortable giving the info to a fellow agent.
Anonymous said, on 5/6/2009 7:51:00 PM
I'm pre-submission at the moment. Recently, my agent made an off-hand comment that we would be submitting to a strategic number of editors for a one round offer. A ONE ROUND OFFER?!? My little brain translated this to, "You're very low on my totem pole and since my giant agency just merged with another giant agency, I'll have little time to devote to you...unless you get sold."
Needless to say, I'm torn. On one hand, I feel a bit betrayed. On the other, I feel I owe him some loyalty for the extraordinary effort he's put into 2 line edits and one global. The book is much better for his involvement. I don't understand pouring months of effort into a book only to go for one round of submission.
@ Kristin: Do you provide that information to your own clients up front? Or only when requested?
@ Laurie: Speaking for myself, I would not feel comfortable with an agent that felt it appropriate to keep any information related directly to my work secret from me.
Anonymous said, on 5/6/2009 8:18:00 PM
@Joseph: Totally with you on that. If the agent can't trust the client not to go bugging editors directly (arguing about rejections or whatever), then the agent doesn't need to be dealing with that client. A friendly, professional conversation about What Not To Do would work wonders in this situation.
IMO, it's vitally important for the client to know which editors have seen the work, not only from a shoppability standpoint (after a break-up) but also in case the client attends the same conference as an editor who read the manuscript. It'd be awkward as all hell if that editor came up and started talking to the client about the book and the client looked like an idiot for the first half of the conversation 'cause she was unaware the editor ever saw the project.
That would terminally piss me off, and I'd drop an agent for a stunt like that. It's my career, and I deserve to know what work is being done on my behalf.
I think in thirteen years of operating P&E I've had only one agent name reported for failing to divulge where a manuscript was submitted. Thankfully, it was a scammer who was trying to avoid letting the author know that nothing had actually been done and the scammer was already not recommended by P&E.
Anonymous said, on 5/6/2009 11:16:00 PM
Thanks for popping in Dave!! Most of the time, it's just that authors are too shy or scared to confront agents (and even former agents) about issues. Thanks for pointing that out.
Anonymous said, on 5/6/2009 11:21:00 PM
As an agent, I feel more confident that I'm getting the right info, and I feel more comfortable giving the info to a fellow agent.This attitude bugs me on so many levels. It's like you think your clients (and writers in general) are so beneath you and other agents that they do not deserve to know which editors have seen their projects.
In case you've forgotten it's their career and their projects. They deserve to know.
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 1:06:00 AM
Seems like the writer has to do so much of the legwork, why don't they sell it themselves? If only publishers would open up their slush piles and hire "slush readers" like agents do, then writers can be more in control of and more informed about their own works! Why are we often the last to know (and to be paid)?
Got to agree with the other commenters here. That wouldn't really help an author who was trying to *get* a new agent, especially if they only had the one manuscript and the agent's decision depended on knowing how much it had been shopped before taking the author on as a client.
Another post illustrating that getting an agent doesn't mean it's all roses from that point on!
Thanks for the post, Kristin, it's good to be prepared for all eventualities if the dream ever comes true. . .
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 6:55:00 AM
OK, I fell in with a “new” agent about 8-9 years ago. She had 0 experience and sent my poorly-written, overlong MS too many editors, relying on the “AGENT” on her letterhead to get it looked at. She quit the business. I’ve spent the intervening time to learn more about the craft, and my much-revised MS is completely different and has a new name. Am I shopped around or not?
While I hope to never be in such a situation, I will remember your advice.
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 8:09:00 AM
Sleepless in Alabama -- is that what ONE ROUND OFFER means?
I took it to mean that the agent is going to try to sell it in one round because she has three or four editors she knows will love it?
Am I wrong?
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 8:16:00 AM
If Laurie doesn't trust her own clients with info on where a book has been (excuse me, it is THEIR book) then why is she an agent?
Good Lord, what is this industry coming to?
Check one off my agent list.
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 8:22:00 AM
How can you check her off her list? We don't know her last name! (If you do know her last name, please share, as I'd like to check her off my list as well.)
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 8:25:00 AM
I find it rather heartwarming that Kristin knows agents that have a story of a ms being rejected by 30 editors before it sells.
My question, where ARE these agents? Do they really exist?
I've been agented. After 10 rejects my agent (established agent/agency) was done. Now my book is shopped -- no other agent is going to want a book that's been to 10 editors. I'm screwed.
I know Kristin doesn't answer comments but can someone else tell me how many houses their own agents send to before they give up?
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 8:27:00 AM
Anon 7:22 -- I'm assuming Laurie is her real first name... how many Laurie's can there be in the business, with that spelling?
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 9:31:00 AM
@Anonymous 7.25 - but 10 rejects is nothing! Some of them may have rejected because it was great but too similar to other authors on their list. Or not right for now. Or they were just too busy to take it on. Can you do just as Kristin suggested, go back to your ex agent and ask for the names and the reasons? Even if they all hated it it is useful feedback for you. My agent shared a lot of feedback with me, and although it was incredibly frustrating - whether it was a 'I loved it but..' or 'it's not right because' - it was all useful. And eventually (after more than 10 rejections) it all came right and a publisher offered a two book deal and it'll be their lead book in January. Don't give up.
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 10:11:00 AM
Anon 8:31 -- (I'm 7:25) thanks for your reply. I had the feeling that 10 rejects was nothing. I actually do have the names that rejected it, but still don't feel I can offer it to another agent without writing a fresh book that hasn't been shopped yet.
I suppose I'll add to my list of Things to ask a Potential Agent: "How many places do you send to before giving up?"
And then run away screaming if they say, "Ten."
BIG HUGE CONGRATS on your two book deal! :)
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 10:21:00 AM
My ex-agent was good at sending me the actual reject letters from the editors. But she only shopped it to seven before putting it on the back burner and losing interest. Needless to say, I eventually woke up and moved on. I have a new agent and first question to her was: how many rejections will you get before you give up on a book. Her answer: depends on the book but she said that seven seemed a pretty small number. We shall see. So far I'm pleased with her.
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 10:48:00 AM
Dear Kristin, I love your blog. I have learned so much from you! The agent/author relationship is such a mystery even now that I have an agent and I would love to hear your take on how things go down step by step. Once you take on an author what is your next step and what do you promise as far as the revision process? Thanks again!
HeatherM said, on 5/7/2009 10:49:00 AM
Thank you so much, this is exactly what I'm going through right now. It is a huge relief to have someone offer advice in relation to it. You're the BEST!
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 10:58:00 AM
Anon 7.25 - from Anon 8.31 - Can you at least try to get the feedback from the old agent? If all 10 said the same thing, then you can learn from that. If not - you've been unlucky. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Rejection is horrible, and this unfinished situation might affect your confidence with the next book. But I am sure you can succeed - you have come very close. Good luck! And thanks for congrats.
Anonymous said, on 5/7/2009 1:14:00 PM
Hey, you know who we should see another book from?
Paris Hilton. NO ONE hires a ghost writer like Paris Hilton.
Anonymoe!
Hopeful said, on 5/7/2009 2:38:00 PM
Yikes! Just TODAY I got my submit list from my agent who just dumped me. It was a lot longer than ten. So I guess I should feel... okay about that?
H.
Kez said, on 5/7/2009 2:57:00 PM
Hopeful - did you get feedback? Reasons? Never give up!
A Google search for 'literary agent Laurie' comes up with five possibilities in the first page of results. So striking anyone off a list could be problematic for that reason alone....
It might be better for one's overall career path to put this issue on the list of 'questions I must ask agents when we are discussing representation'.
I am concerned about your practice of not giving this information to leaving clients, but only to the new agent. It is possible to imagine a number of unpleasant scenarios.
For one thing, it might take a couple of years to land a new agent. What if, in the meantime, you lost the records or even perhaps died?
Another scenario could happen as well: what if you give the records to the new agent, the client ends up eventually leaving that agent too, and that agent never gives the records to the client?
Kristin, once again, I must profess my undying gratitude to you. I've seen more than my share of retreads, and I couldn't figure out why I was seeing them again.
I always thought it was because the agent didn't keep good submission records. I never considered that the author had new representation and was working without a safety net.
I'll have my secretary, the unreliable beagle, mix you a fresh pitcher of margaritas.
Wow. A lot of negative comments here. I'm guessing that Laurie doesn't want to mess with a third party and goes straight to the source. Give her the benefit of the doubt. Or at least the courage to post with your name and not anonymously.
Anonymous said, on 5/10/2009 2:45:00 PM
Amber Argyle--
"Laurie doesn't want to mess with a third party?"
What?
Her client is not a THIRD PARTY. Clients are the only reason agents have books to sell to begin with. Her loyalty should be with her client, not a random editor. Wait until you are in the situation and then I bet you'll understand.
I post as an Anon because I don't have a blogger account, and my name is quite common, not because I'm a coward.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2009 12:14:00 AM
Kristin,
I wonder if you could clarify something. You suggest that if an editor rejects a manuscript submitted by your old agent, then leaves a publishing house, your new agent is free to resubmit to the same publisher without triggering the "agent of record" policy that often appears in agent/author agreements. I was under the impression that the first agent would be the agent of record for that publishing house exclusively.
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2009 3:35:00 AM
My question is similar to Anonymous 5:55 AM -- my ms was shopped two years ago, and since then, I've done a mega revision on it. It has a completely -- miles and miles different -- main hook, a different title; I'd say 95% of the whole thing I've re-written from scratch. Still, some of the main character's names, settings and a couple subplots have been carried over. (Albeit revised.)
I'm about to part ways with my agent and query new ones.
At what point (if any?) do I say that a very, very different incarnation of this book was shopped 2 years ago?
Anonymous said, on 5/11/2009 6:18:00 AM
Anon 2:35 AM, I would change the proper names and not say a word about it. If you've truly done that major an overhaul, then it's a different book, IMO, and changing character and place names will break the last ties to the old manuscript.
I was dealing with an nutso agent some years ago who "pre-shopped" my manuscript without my permission or any kind of agency agreement in place. I guess she was arrogant enough to assume that of COURSE I was going to accept her offer of representation, so she felt it was okay to go ahead and start pitching it. Uhhhh, no.
I pulled the manuscript from the market completely (including from another agent who would've been a great fit for it) and started over with a blank screen and a blinking cursor in the upper left corner. The central questions of the story and core conflict are the same, but everything else is different. Not one sentence remains from that original manuscript. I killed off some of my favorite scenes and descriptions in the process.
It was worth it, though. I learned a lot. I burned away everything that wasn't essential to where I was going with the story. And I'm not stuck with a psycho agent. :-)
STATUS: Yesterday, one blog commenter said they didn’t want to hear any more doom and gloom so in good news, I’ve done three deals in the past 2 weeks for already established clients. All six figure deals. That’s positive.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? YOU’RE THE ONE THAT I WANT from Grease soundtrack
Yesterday, my author Simone Elkeles flew into town to do some research for her next YA title that is going to be set in Boulder, Colorado (sequel to her wildly successful title Perfect Chemistry (almost 100,000 copies in print!).
She has never been to Boulder, Colorado and since she’s a big believer in experiencing what she plans to use in her books, here she is.
Well, little did I know that she also wanted to have her main character, Carlos, do white-water rafting in this new novel.
Yep, you can see where this is going. Who else is going to take her to go and do white-water rafting but her Colorado agent?
Hey, I never want to hear that I don’t go the distance for my authors.
So tomorrow morning bright and early (heading out at 5 a.m.) we are tackling the class III and IV rapids of the Arkansas river through Brown’s Canyon.
Don’t worry, it’s mandatory to wear life vests (not to mention Simone’s editor emailed and said her author had better be wearing one and I don't want to upset her editor).
Hope to see y’all back here on Monday…
36 Comments on Beyond The Call Of Agent Duty, last added: 7/27/2009
Wow, Kristin, I'm impressed. It's not every agent that would risk life and limb just to help an author research a book. Your dedication is priceless. I hope Simone realizes what a gem of an agent she has got! (I'm sure she does.)
Kristin, You will have a blast. Just keep your head above water and wear a helmet in the event that you don't (also helps prevent head wounds from the wild paddles of newbie, client rafters). Jean
Haha, that's awesome. :D Hope you guys have some wild times!! (The rapids in north Cali often contain long stretches of just paddling in calm waters, so it just becomes a lot of suntanning. :) )
What a blast! Class III and IV rapids aren't easy. I used to raft every summer on the south fork of the American River near Sacramento. You are such a cool agent! Have fun!
Kristin I'm so jealous! I've only been reading your blog a short while and you've been to England, Nyc, Washington, DC and now white water rafting! What a life. I'm thinking about giving up writing to become an agent - sounds like more fun!
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 2:22:00 PM
I must admit, even if I seem like a beezy, I’m a little pissed since I have a novel set in Boulder County, Colorado…and I thought it was pretty original, because I don’t know of much books set in CO. But aw well, I suppose…
Relax. I've gone white water rafting every year since I was seven, and unlike most people, have never been in the water.
One tip: keep your feet firmly wedged into the raft when you're in the raft, as they're the best way to STAY in; and if you fall out, keep your feet up, so they don't get caught on anything and drag you underneath. Do that, and you'll come through fine.
Whoa...3 deals in two weeks, all over 6 figures. That's more than positive, isn't it? That's sing a song, jump for joy, do a ditty, etc. It's very cool. Go buy something fun now. :)
I think the economic depression is good for the country. Gets people to focus more on what really matters rather than devoting all their time to thinking about money. (Money is nice though.)
Try to veer away from any large rocks while rafting, if the boat flips onto a rock the force of the impact can...well you know. And we really need nice agents like you in the world. (Makes a teenage novelest feel a little bit about the prospect of getting an agent.) :)
Hmmm... white water rafting is totally not my thing. But for research? I truly wonder how far I'd ever go. It's really cool that you took the time to help out a writer. Good job on your deal-closing these past two weeks. Hope you still have room for new clients ;)
I'm so jealous. I mean, I'm right here, just a few hours away from some serious whitewater rafting, and yet I just can't seem to get there. Oh well. :)
OMG, I'm SO jealous! It looks like you guys had a blast. I've always wanted to go. Even my kids have gone (with my parents, no less!) but not me. Do you feel sorry for me? Yeah, well you should. I'll have to add this to my sooner rather than later "to do" list.
I've never been white-water rafting and these photos don't help me decide if I want to or if I'm terrified to do it. I hope to get the chance someday, but I'm sure I'll scream the entire time.
Good for you two hanging in. I did a white water rafting trip in the Rockies and it was terrifying to me. Luckily the guide took pity on me and tucked me in near the front of the boat and I never got thrown out. My feet were very tucked in and I held on very hard....
Hooray! Looks like fun. So much better than my first time, when i fell out, got sucked under the raft for a space in time, and made very painful acquaintance with some rocks on the way down the rapids... But, hey, that's what lifejackets are for. :) [You can see why i saved comment on rafting until AFTER you'd done it.]
Awesome pictures. My husband and I just got home from white water rafting on the Main Salmon in Idaho (class III and IV rapids.) It was our first time and it was incredible. I highly recommend it.
Now that I've done it, I can write it into my main character's activities, since she is quite the daredevil.
STATUS: Heading out for the night but plan to do some much needed client reading in the next couple of nights. Hubby is out of town. Amazing how much more work gets done when that happens.
What’s playing on the iPod right now? SUNDAY MORNING by Maroon 5
Early this year, I realized I was spending in ordinate amount of time talking with editors and in-house marketing and publicity people about my clients’ upcoming releases.
In fact, I was spending so much time doing that, I started wondering when I would have the time to read new material and take on new clients. After all, I’m an agent, not a marketing coordinator.
And that’s why this past March, I hired Lindsay Mergens to be out Marketing Director here at NLA.
Here’s a link to her bio so you can see what a great background she has for this job. However, being a Marketing Director for an agency is not the same as this corresponding title in a Publishing house. What exactly would she be doing? Would she be duplicating Publisher effort by actually doing marketing and publicity? Nope, that’s not what Lindsay does.
So here’s what she does—think of it more like coordinating.
1. Tracking all upcoming releases and doing a timeline of what is being done in-house and when we need to be following up with the author’s assigned publicist about the marketing plan.
2. She works on the marketing plan with all our authors so they have something to say other than “I don’t know what I’m doing with this.” All authors know more than they think they do. She adds these things to the Publisher’s plan and helps to tweak what will be done.
3. Sometimes she gets money out of the Publishers for an author visit that they might not have done otherwise if we hadn’t simply requested it.
4. She is the liaison for the in-house publicist and marketing person assigned to the author.
5. If the author would like to hire an external PR company as well, Lindsay hooks the author up with the right people. She also reviews any PR proposals that an external company might present.
6. She attends meetings with me in New York when we are meeting with the Publishing marketing and publicity people. As she used to be one, she knows exactly what to ask.
7. When the marketing plan is formed and finalized, Lindsay is the point person to see that all things get implemented and that all the info is disseminated to me, to the author, rights co-agents, etc.
8. She helps authors fill out the client Author Questionnaire (which can be a huge deal as that is often the in-house template that will be worked from).
9. When folks contact us about having one of our authors come and speak, Lindsay handles that and coordinates with the publisher,
10. Book Trailers. Marketing Materials and so forth, Lindsay reviews it all, requests changes if necessary or generally helps guide this whole process.
11. Book tours abroad. Lindsay handles it and coordinates with US publisher.
This list could go on and on. In fact, I’m probably leaving out tons of stuff but this should give you an idea of why I would hire someone to do this for the Agency. As the main agent, I’m cc’d on all communications but honestly, I’m not sure how I did without her for so long. It’s a job in and of itself.
16 Comments on Why We Have A Marketing Director, last added: 8/22/2009
I'm not sure if I should thank you or not, all this recent business advice makes me feel I should begin the agent search, again, for my memoir.
I was planning, when I get it back from my grammar maven, to just post it as a .PDF on my website. That way I could let it do it's own thing and focus on writing romances.
Sigh. LOL!
I'll think about it after Labor Day. There's too much summer yet to enjoy. Thanks for this blog, it's awesome.
Anonymous said, on 8/19/2009 10:32:00 AM
Good morning Kristin,
Not to nitpick, but in your first paragraph you say, "Early this year, I realized I was spending in ordinate amount of time...".
Shouldn;t that read, "...I realized I was spending an inordinate amount of time..."?
I am working on BBAW (Book Blogger Appreciation Week)and your blog, Pub Rants, has been nominated for an award! More information will be forthcoming, but please e-mail me your e-mail address as soon as possible, within the next 24 hours at the latest. My e-mail address is skrishna [at] skrishnasbooks [dot] com. Thanks!
Anonymous said, on 8/19/2009 11:27:00 AM
My nemesis, the semi colon button placed next to the apostrophe button. Thanks Nkrell. =)
As for the correction, I wasn’t pointing it out in a harmful way, but a helpful way. I operate under the mantra in which I would prefer someone to point out inconsistencies as they note them, rather than asking me afterward why I didn’t stop at the red light or why I added three cups of salt to the cake batter.
Marketing is sometimes quite a mystery to the untrained; glad to know there are organized people like you and Lindsay to delegate and coordinate that mystery.
As Coral Press expands, we can only hope to find people as talented to help us out with marketing madness!
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Don't you think one reason for that book's success is that the average reader is not really that discriminating about things like style or even grammar? When a writer "hones his craft," it's at least partly because he has to get his work past an editor, and editors have more discerning taste than the average reader. That's one reason they're editors.
And for this, I am happier than I can express while typing on a smart phone. I don't care how campy, or whatever, a story is. If the writing is as bad as it is in that book, I can't get past it. I want to take a red pen and mark the crap out of it, and I'm not even an editor.
Glad to know there is still sanity in the publishing/ agent world. Thank you.
Thank you.
Plain and simple.
Because as both a reader and a writer, I'm still lost on the 50 Shades excitement :-)
I actually like that, in theory at least. It's punk rock publishing: No skill, no talent, no ability, just three chords and a message that resonates with your audience. And that's all you need, really: the ability to speak to your audience. Lack of musicianship is not only not a problem, but can be parlayed into a selling point: it's proof of your authenticity.
The thing to keep in mind is that this does not diminish the value of good craftsmanship. During the era of punk, we still had traditional rock and pop bands that succeeded in selling records. We also had people who could make themselves heard with less. One does not negate the value of the other. Is it for everyone? No. But it's a way to get noticed.
-LupLun
Shooting for the Moon
I won't lie, it's an odd message for those of us wanting to go into the industry. It's like, I obsess over style, grammar, pacing, prose, structure, but should I? I may be stylistically proud of a book in the end, but will it sell? Have I been wasting my time obsessing over something that might become 'old fashioned'? Should I put the grammar books down and crack open some Twilight or pull a Cassandra Claire and run a fanfiction piece through search and replace and call it a day? This is a very odd time for writing, a very odd time indeed. Agents, editors, books and history all tell us one thing, but the bestseller list goes out of its way to tell us the exact opposite. It's not discouraging, it's more confusing.
There is one thing that can explain it:
Twinkies
For some people junk is what they want all the time. For others, junk is an occasional guilty indulgence. For still others, they only try the junk once. Add all those people together and that is a lot of Twinkies.
Thing is - the market won't withstand 100s of types of Twinkies. And it is difficult to pin down exactly WHAT makes a Twinkie appealing anyway - except its vague resemblance to cake which you already love.
Editors who are looking for the 'next' 50 Shades are looking for the 'next' Twinkie.
Good luck.
It's not that hard to explain if you know why the book took off in the first place. Fans of the fanfiction the writer wrote for Twilight pushed the book to their friends. If not for the established fanbase and the idea that the main characters were actually Bella and Edward (shh... don't tell, it's a dirty little secret, wink, wink) it never would have been a success at all.
People who first bought 50 Shades, weren't buying 50 Shades at all. They were buying Twilight porn. They passed the book around to others, creating hype, and then others bought the book because of the hype.
Kristin,
I am glad someone else is in agreement with this one. I posted on this one and was suddenly bombarded by people thinking this was a piece of great writing. Personally it scares me, if they think this was good writing, what do you think their writing will be. I, like you would not have been an agent to have seen what the "genius" was in that book.
I haven't read it, but the success of well-written novels makes me want to be a better writer.
And as much as this might make me sound bitter, the success of "not well written" novels makes me bang my head into my keyboard.
BUT
I'm wondering if this is part of the deal. People like it for the reason that it's bad. That they feel they could do better, if they had the time and could be bothered? It's not so well written that people feel threatened?
I don't know.
What the heck, I'll bang my head on the keyboard and see if I feel better.
It's not consistently good writing (though it isn't consistently bad either) -- but it is good storytelling.
It's accessible literature that doesn't speak down to the reader. Everyone I've spoken to who has read the stories either as fanfic or as "original" fiction agree that it's not mentally engaging but it grabs them emotionally, the characters grab you by the left nipple clamp and drag you along for the ride.
Just like with the people in our lives, if you love something enough you can see beyond the scars, scabs and other imperfections.
The twinkie post is spot on, as was the post about the Twilight fan base. The trilogy is an anomoly, and I don't think it's because the average reader can't tell good writing from bad. As much as I cringe while reading (and I am reading it), there are other parts I enjoy. The author has managed to make me care about these characters.
I have no interest in reading this "hot" book, so I totally can relate to how you feel. I prefer women's fiction with intelligence. If I want a 50 Shades... vibe I'll read Penthouse Letters. ;-)
50 Shades of Grey is not my cup of tea. I can't get past the horrific prose to enjoy the story.
But worse than the author's repetitive descriptions, cardboard characters, and use of the term "inner goddess", are the people who say, "If this can become a bestseller, I should write a book". Or worse, "If this is a bestseller, why can't you even get an agent?" (I've heard that second one twice. Makes me want to beat my head against a wall).
I don't know why this book has been successful. I'm going to agree with the previous poster who talked about the Twilight fanbase and hype.
With the rise of the Kindle, there was always going to be a break out "mommy porn" bestseller. In my opinion, this was the wrong book being hyped up at the right time.
That's interesting. I haven't really paid much attention to the reviews, because I haven't paid the book. But I just assumed that it was well-written because it was a best-seller. On the other hand, I've read plenty of popular books that I didn't like very much.
Have chosen not to read SHADES OF GREY, but I'm curious. Was the book neither professionally edited nor copyedited or was the poor writing deliberate?
Dittoing "twinkies" and "Twilight porn" and "breakout mommy porn bestseller" comments above. Those are all spot-on.
FWIW, as a real book, it's pretty bad. As a sexy fanfic, it's pretty good. And a lot of people read sexy fanfics that are a whole lot (a WHOLE LOT) worse and enjoy them.
I'm still "wtf"ing that a fanfic is a NYT best-seller, but then again, it's not like it's the first time a really terrible book has hit it big. Da Vinci Code, anyone? I have a book called Killer Crabs that was apparently a best-seller in the 70s. I've never read it all the way through, but when I feel down on myself I crack open a few pages and it makes me smile.
I'm kind of hoping the slush pile floods with 50 Shades clones. Then it'll be that much easier to discard them and see the really good queries ;)
The thing is, as a fanfic reader, knowing this story was originally fanfic, I find it a little hilarious. Because there are at least hundreds, probably thousands or more, stories of similar content, quality, and length across various fandoms--all available for free, written and read for the pure enjoyment of it. There's absolutely no need to pay money for this kind of story.
Honestly, I bet a lot of the reason it's popular is because it started as fanfic. Posted first as fanfic for Twilight, rode Twilight's coattails to gain an audience, then published with an already established fanbase who's internet-savvy and likely posted early rave reviews. I imagine that had a lot to do with it, because it certainly doesn't seem like it would have been successful if it had come out of the gate as an original novel.
People may notice and get excited about shooting stars, but those burn out and are completely forgotten. People may not pay much attention to the stars, but they've been burning for billions of years.
I'd rather be the star...
I work in a library, and I have no interest in reading 50 Shades (yet), but I will occasionally flip to a random page if a copy passes through my hands as I put it up on the hold shelf. It may actually be the first book I've ever encountered that falls into the "so bad it's good" category. It's the Birdemic of books.
The page I remember that made me snort ran something along the lines of, "I knew Dr. Greene was curious about my relationship with Mr. Grey, but I doubted she could possibly imagine his RED ROOM OF PAIN, or what went on between us there." (Emphasis mine.)
I bet she could if you tried her. She is a doctor, after all.
I haven't read it but it makes me cringe to hear libraries are pulling it off shelves. If I choose to read it, the library is where I'd go because I wouldn't want to drop a dime. And libraries are not supposed to censure, even in Florida and Georgia.
I read 50 Shades when it was a fan fic at the urging of my sister, who is, and I'm loathe to admit this, addicted to the Twilight saga and reads a huge amount of fan fiction. I'm a writer and after I read the first few pages of Ms. James story, I commented that the writing was horrific. My sister begged me to keep reading, saying that the writing got better. Um, no, it really didn't, but here's why I think it's such a success-the author took the Edward and Bella characters to a whole new level. What Stephenie Meyer wouldn't do with the characters, E.L. James did, and for those women who became obsessed with Edward, this was just the perfect thing for them. Yes, the writing is awful, and yes, as a writer who is trying to be published and doing everything 'right' to make that happen, the fact that this author got a seven figure deal for these books is just plain disheartening.
I agree wholeheartedly. If you are a real writer, you are SUPPOSED to care about things like grammar and punctuation. Unless you are doing it on purpose like e.e. cummings, there is no excuse for shoddy grammar. I agree that telling a good story is more important than grammar overall, but I think being lazy about grammar just makes you a hack. I'm curious to read the book but I don't want to support it by buying it. People may be able to overlook the problems as they get into the story, but why should they have to? Get an editor and show some respect for the craft!
Like a lot of writers, I can't help but be impressed when a self-published book takes off because it just shows that nobody really knows what will sell. Right now I'm being told that my gay-themed book won't sell because the audience is too small (as if only gay people would read it...I'm not gay and I wrote it!) I will probably self-publish it eventually because I am really passionate about the story. If it sells 10 copies, that's better than nothing. But I'm going to learn how to self-publish, hire an editor, and do it RIGHT because I care about my craft.
What exactly has changed since time immemorial? Isn't The Davinci Code the best selling novel of all-time? there have always been, and always will be, literary geniuses and mass-market bestsellers. there is a story well-written and a story well-told. Sometimes they converge, sometimes they don't.
It's all a matter of taste and unfortunately, the public's taste is growing crasser every day.
As far as the cultural acceptance of poor literature, I personally blame the American education system.
But it comes right back to what people want and it's really not so surprising that what they want is publically displayed sex.
I guess that makes the second culprit in the case Hollywood.
And who has been in charge of the American educational system and of Hollywood for DECADES?
Liberals.
Don't overthink it. As others have said--the initial success was from the Twilight fans and now it's expanded via word of mouth into the mommy porn group (which has some crossover with Twilight).
But I think Kristin's real concern is that she's now going to see 50 shades of imitators (and I fully expect publishers to publish imitators). I feel sorry for the slush pile readers!
I wonder, in 50 years will our grandchildren be singing its praises? The Great Gatsby is a classic now, but it's riddled with pages and pages of dialog that honestly is very difficult to follow. Yet, my rather intelligent professor in college explained that the vague-ness and all of the things left out of the story were part of what made it great and is an extension of the period.
IMO, 50 shades is a product of our time - good or bad.
Ummm. And maybe because it's about sex?
The story, like several other best sellers, isn’t written well but if you get past the writing sometimes the story can suck you in. Although with this one the first two books were easier to get through then the third. The third jumped a lot in the start, I think it broke several more literary rules then the first two.
All the same a story is all most people need. It does make a writer cringe to know that we pour our hearts out to make our stories look their best and then something else gets published that is ...subpar. Maybe it’s jealousy who knows. All I know is that I want my work to looks it’s best because that is what people will know me by. So yes she got published but she will forever be tainted as the writer with a good story that was poorly written. That does taint any further writing she might do.
That being said i know people are crazed that it was fan fiction. Well maybe it was but it is original enough that if you didn't know it was fan lit you probably wouldn't have made an Edward Bella connection.
Maybe the devil still makes agreements for 7 years?
I'm not sure this a one-in-a-million instance. Did we all read "Twilight?" I don't know if any one used the moniker "well-written" for that either.
As an aspiring writer it is frustrating that these blockbuster titles are so sub-par from a craft standpoint. Of course, "The Hunger Games" has been an exception to that trend.
I agree with MegS-Twilight was very popular, but well-written it was not. I think some authors are good story tellers, not necessarily good writers and vice versa. If it makes things harder for agents, it certainly has to make things harder for writers who actually come up with original stories. I'm less troubled by the fact that the writing is so poor (which I think universally acknowledged) than the fact that this was FAN FICTION originally.
Obviously the story resonated with many, many folks, or they wouldn't haven't bought it, told their friends about it, blogged about it, etc, etc.
Complain all you want about the grammar and other such issues with the books. E L James is now very rich because of her books. Doesn't matter how it started. Fanfic, or whatever. She's enjoying her day in the spotlight. As writers, we should all be congratulating our fellow writers on their success -- not browbeating them because you thought their work was sub-par.
Her work isn't going to affect your work. Her books are not going to affect the future of printed works. Not even the saleability of your work. Don't worry about it.
Let's not all forget one specific point: books are not a zero-sum game. Just because consumers are buying up her books doesn't mean that they won't buy yours!
Don't trash her fans. You might loose a fan because of it.
I saw this at Barnes and Noble and skimmed through a few pages and immediately put it down. Erotica isn't remotely my taste to begin with, and the writing sealed the deal. Then I was at Costco with my mom, turned the corner around the book table and BOOM: 50 Shades of Grey. At Costco?! That's when you know something's blowing up. I'll echo what some others have said: Twilight. Twinkies. Good storytelling does not = good writing. If you look at all of the juggernaut books of the last 15 years you'll find a common theme: good storytelling. Harry Potter, Twilight, Da Vinci Code, Hunger Games, The Help - all written with varying degrees of skill but also with a compelling story and characters people connect to. I think what the success of this book proves is that the public is willing to ignore bad writing if the story is something they're invested in. I know if I were published, though, I'd want to be known for my writing skill AND my storytelling. It's the authors who land in that sweetspot whose books live on the longest.
I think these things just happen. As an aspiring author, this in no way gives me any ideas about not going about things the right way! People should chalk this up to being a fluke. I would never want to have a bestseller that people refer to as "not well written". (Well, I might appreciate the money...but I digress.) If I get published I want to be darn proud of what I put into the world. I think the person that would want to try their hand at this kind of luck would be the same people to write poorly anyway. Maybe not, just my thoughts! :) It makes me think of this quote.
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." Thomas Jefferson
There is nothing at all surprising about the success of this. You may love creme brulee or Godiva chocolates, but every once in awhile (and MUCH of the time for the more crass ppl out there), you just want--you guessed it: a twinkie. --though I never much liked twinkies myself. A Hershey bar will do just fine.
I haven't read this novel. But have been seeing a lot of tweets and blog posts about it.
This post (okay, mostly the comments) makes me feel sad and tired as both a reader and a writer. The writing in 50 Shades won't win any prizes, sure, but it was not unreadable despite all the verbal shuddering going on in this thread. In fact, I'd say it was comparable to many, many, many other genre books out there. Yes, the prose is merely serviceable (and that is more than okay for millions of readers, you must realize), but it isn't some garbled, unreadable mess like people are making it out to be. As to the book's success...most people read the book for the story, and the story is pretty gripping. Ms. James spins a good yarn. There was a spark there.
For the record, I'm not some 50 Shades fangirl. I'm not even 100% sure the author's last name is James, haha! Erotic lit is not really my cup of tea. I read the first book, but not the subsequent ones, etc. And when I picked it up, I had no idea it originated as Twilight fanfic. I just thought--hey, this looks like a fun and fluffy and slightly kinky read, I've seen a lot of people raving about it, and I feel like taking a break from heavy literature right now. And you know what, I enjoyed it. It was fluff, some of it was cheesy, some of it was repetitive. Okay. But when everyone starts wailing that THIS IS THE END OF GOOD LITERATURE FOREVA OMG WE ARE DOOMED, or worse, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE UNWASHED MASSES WHO LIKE THIS DRIVEL??, that's when I start to roll my eyes. Are we so out of touch with the world? People enjoy interesting stories. People like something that grabs them, even if it isn't a breathtaking masterpiece of literary genius. Let's not be hipster snobs here and pretend we can't comprehend this. I get a little confused/frustrated sometimes when people DON'T like a breathtaking masterpiece of literary genius, but not when people like the lighter fare. And yes, you can like both.
I'm sure Ms. James aspires to improve her craft. She's admitted the writing isn't brilliant. She knows she has room for improvement. And hey, not everybody gets to be (or wants to be) Jonathan Franzen or Jeffrey Eugenides. I hope she continues to grow as a writer without losing the spark and passion that brought her so many fans in the first place. But I wish writers didn't feel the need to hate on each other so much, especially when someone they deem unworthy achieves success. I've observed the same phenomenon with Stephenie Meyer (from fellow writers, mind you), and it just baffles me. I understand that she isn't going to win the next Pulitzer for fiction, but she's still a author telling stories people love, and I think that deserves at least some respect from her community of fellow writers. But no, she's treated with a lot of scorn and derision. It just makes me sad.
FWIW, I'm not against discernment when it comes to writing. In fact, I think that's extremely important, and I'm studying the work of authors like Flannery O'Connor and Joyce Carol Oates (and not the work of Ms. Meyer or Ms. James) when I want to learn something about excellent writing, sure. But I am against all the fellow author-bashing. It isn't very classy.
What can I say? I've never heard of this book. Which puts it in company with my book, Tainted Souls, which most people have never heard of. So I'm good company, I guess?
Twilight wasn't so well written, either, and that didn't seem to hurt sales.
Because for some reason women like to read about a poor girl getting beat all in the means of sex?
No thank you. I'd rather read Twilight again then suffer through the series.
I haven't read Fifty Shades of Grey and I won't either. The story doesn't interest me in the least. So I went to Amazon and read the first two pages.
James's prose has the same quality that Stephanie Meyers, Dan Brown, Nora Roberts, Clive Cussler, WEB Griffin, Janet Evanovich, James Patterson, Stephen King, John Grisham, Julie Garwood, Jayne Anne Krentz, Susan Elizabeth Philips, Robert Ludlum, Ken Follet, Anne MCCaffrey, et al all have. It is compelling to read. It is so compelling that the reader loses themselves in the story and doesn't notice mistakes in spelling, punctuation, and grammar. That is talent. That can't be taught. And quite frankly, I would rather write like one of these authors, than some literary genius no one but the literati have ever heard of or will ever hear of.
Unfortunately if you're the type of person who notices spelling, punctuation, and grammar mistakes when you read, then you will not be able to recognize compelling prose even when it sits up and slaps you in the face.
And I feel sorry for you because when I read a book and get lost in story, it's like riding on Space Mountain. If I'm noticing the spelling and the grammar and the punctuation, then I feel like I've been dragged into The Hall of Presidents. If I get to choose between the two, then it's Space Mountain every time.
What tees me off about this discussion is that there is a lot of mudslinging about the book, but no in depth analysis of why it is bad.
I've read an analysis of Da Vinci Code written by an Ivy League literature professor. His analysis was so stupid, it wasn't funny. What's really scary is that he has a PhD in literature and he is teaching creative writing.
anonymous 2:10 a.m.
Here is a good in-depth analysis of the book:
http://therumpus.net/2012/05/the-trouble-with-prince-charming-or-he-who-trespassed-against-us/
I've read books that were perfectly lousy and still kept me reading. 50 SHADES wasn't one of them. Fortunately, the Amazon "look inside this book" feature saved me. What put me off so much I couldn't get into the story of a modern young woman in college with NO COMPUTER and no e-mail address who was also a virgin? This deathless simile about the hero's voice, which is “warm and husky like dark melted chocolate fudge caramel…or something.”
At that point I decided that it wasn’t worth reading even for free (from the library). Of course, your mileage may vary....
LOL. I love the comment that compares it to twinkies. Too true. Fifty Shades is a bandwagon everyone can't wait to jump on. Enjoy the ride. It's short.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I'm going to say this anyhow, and I won't even post it anonymously.
As a reader and a writer, it makes me sad that there is a fanfic on the bestseller's list. As a reader, because I want to read fresh stories, not pay for something I already own. As a writer because I don't want someone borrowing my characters, and it's not something I ever would do. I DO think there is a place for fanfic. I think it's supposed to be just for fun not a cash cow. I think there is more artistic integrity in creating your own world, and your own characters.
Kristin,
Thanks for the link. I am the anonymous at 2:10 AM (sorry I was too lazy to log into blogger)
That analysis is of the story, not the prose. And I absolutely agree with that analysis. It is not a story that I want to read, and it is troubling that it is popular. But I can also see that her prose is compelling to read.
Whether one likes a story or not, doesn't indicate the quality of the prose. I don't like Stephen King's stories, that doesn't make him a bad writer or his stories poorly written.
So when we say that something is poorly written, what are we talking about? Is it the prose, the plot, the characterization, or what? In terms of plot and characterization and all the other elements of fiction, yes it is poorly written. In terms of the prose styling, the actual stringing together of words to tell the story, it is compelling to read.
And yes, I do feel empathy for you, your inbox will soon be filled with Fifty Shades of Grey clones. That's human nature. We see someone becoming hugely successful for something and then everyone rushes in trying to mimic that person's success instead of finding it on their own.
We don't need no, education, we don't need no, grammar skills..
..Hey, editors! Leave those kids alone!
It's like a DADAist approach to writing: Why should you have to be intelligent to write a story? Why should you have to study the english language to write a story? After all, Daniel, you said so yourself: The ability to write so well you don’t *need grammar* comes from talent and can’t be taught. Much like how affluent artists are simply born with a pencil in their hand and can render a beautifully drawn human body without even having to look at one. There's no learning involved in writing, it's just a talent.
I don't fear agent Nelson's inbox being flooded with 50 Shade Clones as much as I fear the fact that due to a rise in people making a conscious choice to be intellectually lazy, there will be hundreds of people like Daniel thinking you don't need to study or work hard to become a writer, all you need is ~imagination~. Grammar, structure, plot and progression are just the product of people who, what was it? Ah yes, "the literati have ever heard of or will ever hear of." Stephen King, Nora Roberts and James Patterson were just born knowing how to write.
Now, since you've made it quite clear reading isn't exactly your thing, I imagine you didn't actually read the article Nelson posted, what with all those multi-syllabic words in there and all. To address your point of James' prose. This:
“My subconscious is frantically fanning herself, and my inner goddess is swaying and writing to some primal carnal rhythm. She’s so ready.”
“white Pinot Grigio.”
"Ana says or thinks, “Jeez,” more times than I can count. There are so many repetitive tics, this trilogy would be ideal for a drinking game where the aim is to destroy someone’s liver. Drink every time Ana thinks, “Jeez.” Drink every time Ana bites her lower lip, which, by the way, makes Christian want to ravish her. Drink every time the palm of Christian’s hand twitches because he wants to spank Ana. Drink every time Ana thinks of Christian as enigmatic or mercurial. Drink every time Ana reflects on his extraordinary good looks. Drink every time Ana gets possessive of Christian because every single human woman in the world eyes him lustily and becomes instantly tongue-tied. Drink every time the narrative continuity goes wildly off track. The game goes on and on."
As well as this,
“I want you to become well acquainted, on first name terms if you will, with my favorite and most cherished part of my body. I’m very attached to this.”
“My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.” “My inner goddess sits in the lotus position looking serene except for the sly, self-congratulatory smile on her face.” “My inner goddess jumps up and down with cheer-leading pom-poms shouting yes at me.” “My inner goddess looks like someone snatched her ice cream.”
Is at the level of a twelve year old writing fanfiction porn. That is not good enough. You may base writing success on sales numbers, but Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian also can outsell many things far better than them, that doesn't make them good. The books you dismiss as elitist and forgotten because they haven't had a Lifetime TV movie made about them are still read to this day because things that are good are enduring, and to be good, things have to have quality. If you cannot understand why The Great Gatsby is better than The Da Vinci Code, or what quality in writing is, for the love of god, see if your community college offers a basic class in English Comprehension.
*Excuse me, Daniel - Diana
Thank you for saying this. 50 Shades is insulting. There's better written and less offensive erotica out there that ISN'T find-and-replace-name fanfic. And bottom-of-the-barrel fanfic, at that. (I say this as someone who wrote Harry Potter fic for years.)
I mean, awkward prose aside, there are TYPOS and MISSPELLINGS (not just British to American English misspellings). Nothing should go for seven figures and make this much buzz with DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS OF SPELLING ERRORS at the very, very least.
If none of this silly grammar stuff matters, why should we have to have classes in our own language during school? Because it DOES MATTER.
I feel like the publishing industry owes millions of authors, already published, seven more figures. Because if 50 Shades is worth that much...
@anonymous 3:55 PM
Wow, can you be any more arrogant, condescending, rude, and insulting?
It is posts like yours that stifle constructive discussion of books such as these.
Clearly the one in need of a class in reading comprehension at the local community college is yourself as you didn't understand a word that she said (You didn't even get her name or gender right when you went on your tirade.)
And while you are there see if they teach a class in manners as your are sorely lacking.
Kristin, thanks for posting the link. That really was a pretty comprehensive analysis, and I agree with the writer--it's the wrong message, wrong kind of fairy tale.
Glad you shared it.
I was bottle-fed on the three-act structure, so my heart breaks every time I see another book, film or television show clearly missing those Campbellion (and many other) beats.
Still, I make it a point to never berate other writers. This industry is hard. If another writer figured out how to tune into our cultural zeitgeist, and make a mint in the process, God bless.
We live in an age where books are the underdog. In my mind, every time a book succeeds, we all (writers, agents and publishers) win. It’s good for all of us. No need to worry. :)
And your blog is fabulous.
If it is not well written, I can completely understand why you wouldn't be the agent to go for it. At the very least, any agent who does should at least have had it edited so that it would be well written by the time it hit shelves. Thanks for sharing.
I never knew that writers and wanna be writers were so bitter and elitist . If all of you are so talented, why are you writing comments instead of bestsellers?
I bought it to see what all the hype was about. I had to stop reading somewhere in chapter two because the plot was so implausible, the writing was on an eighth-grade level (that's being generous), and there are so many other books actually worth my time.
Anonymous, I'm not bitter and elitist (unless by your definition, it means I have standards). As applied to this book, better terms would be confused, perhaps mystified. I just don't get *why* this book is a bestseller unless it's some sort of mass hysteria leftover from Twilight. I bear the author no ill will. Good luck to her. I wish all of us could be hit by the same lightning.
Here's my take. Frankly, I'm not really surprised this book has done well, because the subject matter sells. I neither read nor write this kind of fiction, so I can't rely upon the subject matter *alone* selling my work to anyone (naturally, I hope the subjects I write about will be of interest to people). I simply want to write stories I care about, and write them as well as I can. I want to be proud of my work, and be able to hold my head up and say "this is a good example of my writing skills." Personal integrity is very important to me.
From the interviews I've read/heard (and correct me if I'm mistaken), Ms. James doesn't consider herself a good writer, and doesn't think her book is really all that good. If I had that attitude about something I'd written, I would never have allowed it to be published.
Just my 2c.
This elitist attitude is WHY publishing is in such trouble. THIS book got people to read. THIS book made money. And THIS book made the so-called gatekeepers stop and wonder.
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It's very sad and disheartening that works like 'Shades of Grey' get published with very little effort, while many TALENTED writers' works are left to stew in the slush pile.
Many writers are now going the 'Self-Publishing' route, taking the traditional Agent and Publisher out of the equation. If publishers and agents don't pull their collective heads out of their ...holes in the sand, they may soon find themselves as archaic as typewriter repairmen. Wise up, people. Don't let 'Trendy' overcome 'Talent.'
An interesting discussion, slowly morphing into anonymouses taking potshots at one another.
As an out-and-proud elitist, I am not going to read it. But she got one thing right. 50 Shades of Grey is a pretty good title. (Unless it's some Twilight fanfic in-joke that went completely over my head.)
This book deserved to be published because millions of people are reading it and enjoying it. That's the only criteria.
Any agent or editor who represents books in the romance genre and passed on this book doesn't know her field. Period. Stop making excuses. And whining. A key rule of business is to know your target audience. If you want to make your job easier, stop representing dull books only a few thousand people want to read.
And to all those writers struggling to "perfect their craft," wake up and learn what really makes a marketable book.
I'm with anon@8:00 AM.
But then is the capacity to objective there? In other words, the norm has been for agents and editors to choose books for publication based on their *subjective* taste...for the most part. And if that subjective taste is not geared toward marketable books that people want to buy and read, are agents and editors capable of looking at their businesses objectively?
Frankly, I'm not sure they are. Fifty Shades of Grey would have been turned down by most agents just like The Help was turned down by most agents. Two very different books with two very different subjects. And yet both became bestsellers.
Something is broken. Plain and simple.
I'm the anon above. I wanted to add one more thing so no one thinks I'm attacking agents.
Publishing and authors are going to need agents more than ever as things change. But a little less gatekeeping and subjectivity and a lot more objective representation is what they need.
I enjoy erotic romance novels. I made a valiant attempt to read "Fifty Shades ..." and couldn't get past the first four chapters. There was something disturbingly familiar about the dynamic between Ana and Christian (Read: Bella and Edward)that I found off-putting. It was just *so* 1970s Harlequin Romance. But, this simply suggests that I don't find this type of male-female relationship compelling enough to read about, and that perhaps I prefer a more modern tale of courtship between a man and woman who treat each other as peers.
Quality of writing aside, the most important question to ask is why such a large number of female readers *are* riveted by the naive, quivering 21-year-old virgin and the older man equipped with looks, power and extreme wealth when clearly a lot of us writers have been told that this plot device is outdated. I suggest that "Fifty Shades ..." isn't wildly popular just because it introduces a little bit of vanilla kink into the plot; it's popular because women relate to/want to be Bella/Ana.
FIFTY SHADES OF GREY was picked up after it had sold over a quarter of a million copies. That alone justified the advance.
It was picked up by its original publisher, The Writer's[sic] Coffee Shop after it had amassed an audience of somewhere in the neighborhood of two million readers on fanfiction.net.
It was not picked up because of the quality of its writing, and any writer who thinks that writing that way will get them a million dollars is frankly, nuts. It wasn't even picked up because Vintage thought it would sell. It was picked up because it was already selling.
That's a huge difference.
It was a one-in-a-million shot that is likely never going to be repeated. A book with characters so archytepal and flat that they could be exploited by a fanwriter in a way that created an AU far enough to avoid a copyright suit. A fandom around that book so willing to pour its energy into works which had little to do with its source. A history of works within that fan community that had already laid the groundwork for desire for more of Edward Cullen as a human dominant rather than a domineering vampire. The surge in the epublishing industry and in tiny e-publishing mircropresses that allowed some fans to create their own press to publish name-changed fanfiction that most publishing professionals would never lay their hands on.
That's what led to the original sales. And that's what led to the deal.
It was a perfect storm. And a writer who understands the industry and understands the provenance of FIFTY SHADES OF GREY will understand that...how large that number is, however, I couldn't tell you.
I don't think any agent or publisher who would have passed this book up if it had been presented without that original fanbase is in any way misguided. It would not have done as well had it not come from where it did, at the time that it did, and with the huge groundswell of support moving beneath it.
"And to all those writers struggling to "perfect their craft," wake up and learn what really makes a marketable book."
*Wow*
Guys. Game over. You just. You can't get better than this?
I can only hope that if I ever pitch something, that's the kind of writer I'm competing against. Anonymous, could you send us your email, maybe post a date around when you'd like to talk to an agent or an editor? Just. You know. For reference?
Hey, all other writers in this thread, all of you who are passionate and dedicated and working hard? Could you listen to that anonymous? Yeah, all that hard work stuff. Totally unimportant. Yep. Agents and editors are just looking for stuff that's marketable. I hear there's a Battleship movie coming out, maybe you can do something in that vein? Like, a Candyland saga? Avengers sold out, maybe you can write a young adult novel about the adventures of Sargeant United States and his buddy Steel Guy. I think this is the way to go. Yep. Totally.