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[…] help from his older sister on the hands. I love it! I think he must’ve been inspired by this robot display photo, sent to us by a friend while she was in London. The robot a continuation of the Cardboard […]

Cardboard is a great art resource for kids. I remember when Austin was about 3-4, Shane took a couple of large cardboard boxes and made him a very realistic locomotive. Shane is also pretty good as an artist and painted the locomotive to be even more realistic. Have fun, kids.

GD Bob

What a great story! Homemade toys are often the best-loved, even if they aren’t meant to last forever.

Sounds like a good read.

What a wonderful benefit! I really admire folks that use their talents to benefit others. You're an inspiration!

Some white accents here and there might have been nice in this drawing. Jeweler designers often draw on grey paper because it makes shiny things painted in white really stick out, such as gold, diamonds and pearls ... that would otherwise be impossible to draw on a white piece of paper.

Nice to see you back:-)

Nice to see you back:-)

I adore all your drawings! -^___^-
What a amazing piece oj art!

I loved to meet you in Clermont. You are on my blog.
I hope you liked the exhibition. I guess it was hard for you with all those people walking in front of you and no time to visit the other booths.

Thank you, guys.

Chelle, yes, I think you are right. It would have been a nice addition. Wish I'd thought of it at the time. maybe next time. A good tip.

Lilotte, thanks so much. It was wonderful to meet all the lovely people who came to the exhibition over the course of the weekend. It's true, I had just half an hour to go and look at what others were doing. So much amazing work.

Cheers, guys.

I am in sales, and used to be an agent. I went back to sales because I didn't like agenting...hard to imagine, huh? I did learn a few things though, one that I don't have the patience for being an agent! The business moves at a snail's pace.

I did learn quite a bit about the business though, especially about querying and why agents choose to work with books they love. It's not just books. The biggest key to sales is genuine enthusiasm. When it's real, it's often contagious. You can't fake it. Would you rather be represented by someone who raves about your work, say's it's the best thing ever and makes that editor eager to read it because they know that when that agent gets that excited, there's a good reason? Or do you not care? If you don't care, then keep in mind that you'll be competing with writers whose agents do love their books....and editors will read those books first and will be expecting to like it...maybe even love it, that's the hope anyway.

Meanwhile your book will languish in a pile along with books from other agents that are known for throwing stuff against the wall to see if it'll stick. The agent didn't rave about the book, so the editor is in no hurry to read it, and the last few submissions from that agent haven't been anything to get excited about.

Do you see a pattern here?

Really, what kind of agent would you rather have representing you?

And regarding query letters, one thing I've seen over and over again is that writers stress so much about getting the query letter formula down, that they strip all the life out of their query in their attempt to boil it down to a mere sentence or two. Don't be afraid to get your voice in there. The ideal query letter will give the agent a sense of what the writing in your book will be. Really take your time with that and let your writing shine, focus on telling them what the story is about, the way you'd tell a friend about a book they just have to read.

Often times it isn't the writing in the query, it's just that the idea of your story doesn't excite them. Maybe they don't like kids, so your story about a secret baby makes them shudder or maybe they love knitting, so your women's fiction about knitting is an automatic yes.

Don't take it personally, it's the most subjective business ever...but that also reflects the buying tastes of the reading public. Some people want Joyce Carol Oates, others prefer James Patterson...something for everyone.

:) Pam

I'm unpubbed but I'm certain I want an agent who loves my work and knows where to sell it.

That said, I agree with anon that we miss out on a lot of great books because of query letters. I know that there must be a system to weed out the submissions but writing a query is much different than writing a romance. The agent/editor misses a lot of what makes that manuscript special.

For example, there is a woman in my writing group that has written a wonderfully quirky, romantic suspense. All of us who have read it, love it. But for some reason she can't seem to convey her voice in the query. It's a shame.

And as another poster questioned (that wasn't answered) - what do you do when you are able to improve your query? Have you really burned all your bridges if you already sent out the bad one? What do you do with that wonderful 90K manuscript that took you a year to write? Bury it under the bed when there hasn't been an agent or editor that has even read a single word of it? That seems unbearably harsh.

I just read the 'anonymous' you have referred to.

I think this person makes very good points, and I happen to agree with most of them.

But what I am most struck by in your latest blog entry is yet another example of your defensiveness.

Not all the folk who read or comment on your blogs are sycophants.

Some of us read your blog for insight into an industry that we are interested in or trying to break into.

I can't imagine how much of your very valuable time you waste smarting over real or perceived slights.

Lauralou,

I'll give you my opinion on the question of what you should do if you send out a not-so-good query letter and get rejected by everyone:

*If* an agent or editor rejected on the basis of a query letter, and you feel it was because your query was poorly written, I'd change the name of the manuscript and resubmit the new query letter. I'd also suggest you submit queries in batches of two and three at a time. That way, if you're striking out, you can revise the query letter in-between submissions.

Good luck!

Faye

Re: anon 5:46.

I for one am offended at your use of the word 'sycophant' to describe someone like myself who happens to agree with the OP. I'm just as interested in learning about the business. She posted about the topic because she thought it warranted discussion, not for platitudes and assurance. If that were the case, why bother making the post at all and bringing the negative comment to the fore?

I fail to see why someone who has been blamed for the downfall of the entire industry on her own website *wouldn't* be defensive, and further, when someone accuses you of something, you present a *defense*.

Lots of interesting opinions, here. And I'll add mine to the mix. Basically, writing is an art and all art is subjective. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think the bad salesperson would be the one trying to sell something they didn't believe in.

I want an agent to love my work, because I know they will do a better job representing me and selling my work to editors.

An agent should have just as much right to choose the type of books she represents as an author does to choose the type of books she wants to write.

When an agent or editor comes back and makes suggestions, a writer has the right to say..."I can't do that."

I can honestly say that I think a good agent or editor places value in what the writer thinks and feels. This isn't to say that a writer is always right. A good agent/editor can help a writer improve their work.

So far, all the suggestions that have come from my agent and editor have all been something that I felt made the book stronger.

My two cents.

Christie Craig

I'm coming out of lurkdom due to the interesting debate.

Anon 4:47 (aka Pam) makes a good point about throwing things at the wall to see what will stick. Writers are also guilty of sending out mass queries to many inappropriate editors/agents.

How do writers hope to sell their absolutely fabulous novel to Jane Public if they can't sell them to an agent? That's the whole point of a query. Part of learning the commercial publishing ropes means learning how to write those blurbs. No matter how much you hate them.

And I know it's hard to accept that our "babies" may be, well, pretty darn ugly. We may love them dearly, but the lady behind us in the checkout line is thinking, "Holy ****!" And this is the person we want to buy our "baby."

Now, you may be in total denial that your baby (i.e. novel) has a bad case of cradle cap, but the truth shows in your query (i.e. the baby picture). How do you expect the agent to hire your baby for the Gerber commercial until you get the rash cleared up?

A friend of mine is represented by Kim Lionetti and is pleased with Kim's representation. Would I submit to Kim? No, because I don't write the style of book she represents. Why waste both of our time by doing so? It has nothing to do with Kim personally; I've met her and she's a very sweet lady. And if such a statement makes me a sychophant, so be it.

Have I offended Kim by saying I'm not sending a query to her? Probably not. Actually, she's probably wiping her brow and whispering prayers of thanks.

Will I ever send a query to a different agent at Bookends? Maybe, but first I have to get that cradle cap cleared up on the baby's head.

Great post and lots to think about. There are probably some agents who don't represent the genres they love, simply because they are starting out and working for the "boss." But primarily, I'd want an agent who thinks she can sell my work--because she knows the genre and has the right contacts. Also, I want my work to be accepted based on the writing and marketability combined. An added bonus would be if the agent personally loved it to death.

I agree that queries are really tough to write. I'm sure most writers would love it if agents would look beyond the query and read the first few pages of the manuscript before making a clear-cut decision.

The synopsis seems to dissect the story in the worst possible light. I don't write them until my publisher forces me.

I agree with those who said that we work so hard writing the darn things that we want to rush out and get it looked at right away. One of my goals right now is to stop that, to take time, because there is no rush, and pushing it has only resulted in missing typos and making silly little mistakes.

Plus with my most recent work writing a rough query helped me focus on the important things in the last draft.

Is this a crazy idea?

I am a designer, and I have to tell you that I just love to design letterheads and other bits of stationery. But when it comes to designing my own, I am like most designers, and find it incredibly, incredibly difficult. Why? Because we are creatives, and selling ourselves is tortuous. Selling others is a piece of cake.

Now,writing a query letter is essentially a sell. And a person's ability as a novelist may bear no relationship to how they can sell themselves in a query letter.

We have all just seen some terrific 'first 100 word' pieces. Wonder what their pitch would have been like. I strongly suspect the pitch would not have been nearly as good. Ad copy writers rarely make good novelists (I know there are exceptions here, but I believe they just prove the rule), and I suspect the reverse holds true.

My crazy idea is this. Would Bookends be willing to consider the idea of reading the first 100 words of a novel TOGETHER with the query pitch, irrespective of how bad the pitch is?

It's not much more to read, and it would be really interesting to see what happened. And hey, you may be absolutely right about there being a direct correlation between the voice etc and the query pitch, and you could quieten us all down on this matter once and for all.

Dear Jessica & Kim,

Without a shadow of doubt, I stand by what you say.

Getting a book on the shelf is part of the dream; of course it is. I would be a fool to claim otherwise. But to have someone slither up to me and say, “Ahma playin roooooulette! Who’s with me now, hoot hoot!”

Uh. Hell no. Next!

I’d rather die than succumb to such defeat.

A thought: Vanity publishing. If you are unwilling to wait for the right agent, self-publish and get it over with. In fact, that might even be safer than being represented by the wrong agent.

This is a relationship; hence, the wise writer/agent chooses in much the same way one might choose a significant other. If I were to get up on a dance floor—let’s say for a two-step—I damn sure want it to be with someone who knows how to dance, who doesn’t creep me out while in my space, and who has the graceful ability to lead the way (or at the very least not stomp my toes or fling me jive-style into hardwood traffic).

I believe in myself and in my dream. Part of that rests within the faith that someone else will believe in me, and will know why they believe in me. Seriously. I’m not even close to being done learning, why would I choose to learn from someone who isn’t qualified to teach me? You don’t send your college kid to kindergarten, right?

I want an agent who can see me as both person and writer, hear clarity in my voice and who, most importantly, can echo that voice out to the rest of the world. If that isn’t possible, I will be the first to accept it, wring the tears out of my shirtsleeve, and keep going.

Dean Koontz struggled (I know, hard to believe, but he did). His wife believed in him, and kept him believing in himself. Had Koontz married his cousin’s-best friend’s-sister’s-next-door neighbor’s Auntie Elma because her cookies sold at the farmer’s market last week…?

We would have lost 30+ years of damn good story telling.

One more thing to add to my (Anon 11:31) comment:

Bookends is one of the few agencies out there who dedicate time to teaching aspiring writers how to write good query letters/pitches.... even if she rejects a writer, simultaneously, she opens the door wide. To stronger writing. To greater hope. And to eventual success.

To literally a world of potential writers, these ladies have already done their part--and then some.

It's up to the writer to cross the threshold.

I know writers today that have up to three agents to represent their different books. I assume that's okay. I have my hands full with one. The reason I have my hands full is because I listened to my agent. The agents at BookEnds know what they're doing. Do not mess with success.

My first thought is Anon 11:59’s work has been rejected and he/she is not happy about it. I have to give major props to my local chapter and RWA for teaching us that ‘rejection happens’, get over it and go on. Okay, that might sound a little blunt, but it’s the truth.

I look at the Q-letter, much like a resume. If I’m applying for a job, I have write the resume, giving the best highlights of who I am in a very short amount of space. And in today’s work force, they really don’t want more than two pages on said resume, one is better. How much can I really tell them in one or two pages? What makes me the best candidate for the position, and my accomplishments, nothing more. I have to sell me to them, not the other way around. Everything else, all the extra things I want to tell them about me happens in the interview, IF, they like what they’ve read on the resume.

So, give the agent what makes my book great and a little about what makes me great, all in a limited amount of space. Does it take work to accomplish this? Yes. Does it take writing the thing more than once before you send it out? Yes. Is it worth the time and effort. Absolutely. I didn’t write any of my books in one day. The query is no different.

I also know that it’s my job to find the agent who represents the type of books I write, not the other way around. Yes, the query is hard to write and the synopsis (I have a writer friend who calls it the sucknopsis), is harder still. But it is part of the job. It’s the resume that will sell my book.

Anon 11:59 said, I don't like mini vans or SUV's and I wouldn't buy one but lots of people in the world do. But what if it’s the best mini van or SUV? You still wouldn’t buy it, why, because it’s not something you love. Agents are the same and I wouldn’t want one who didn’t love my book.

Jessica;

When I first started selling real estate I entered at a time when interest rates were starting to make massive jumps. Every experienced Realtor in town was crying we would never sell another house. I worked for a developer so I didn't need a license or experience. I just loved the houses.

Because I loved them and that enthusiasm showed, I was selling 10-20-30 houses a month when we might get one contract from an outside real estate agent.

Later when I got licensed and built my own company, I noticed the properties we sold first were quite often the ones the agents loved. So much so I told the agents to find a specialty and stick with it.

A person is a better representative of something they are familiar with and love. My little school teacher hated country property and always called me in to handle it. She was sweet and a very good salesman, but she just hated the nasty, dirty country stuff and if she stepped in a cow pie, while she was out there we heard about it for days. She didn't want to understand country property, she didn't want to look at it and she didn't want to show it. She also didn't sell much of it.

I think that is one reason these blogs are so much of an improvement over the old Literary Agents Guide. I have that book sitting on my table and will use it extensively, but when I get down to submitting, I am also going to start checking for agent blogs and get to know them better. If they are not pretty enthusiastic about what I write I am going elsewhere.

I've spent years writing. I want them to love what I do as much as I do. I want them to know what sells and what doesn't and what I need to do to make my work as presentable as possible. If it isn't something they enjoy, they will miss the subtle changes I need to make.

It's like making a shopping list for a companion, I suppose. You can go down the list and fill in the blanks--nice teeth, sense of humor, tall, Wrangler butt, pretty eyes--but chances are you aren't going to feel that spark if they aren't also enthused about what you love.

In the past I've started reading a few "well written" novels ... and didn't finish them. I did not like them.

Everyone has different tastes.

Selling is a difficult enough job without trying to sell something for which one has no enthusiasm. Yes, it must ALSO be marketable.

Isn't this a large reason why most agents specify which genre they represent? By keeping with the genres they like, this helps agents narrow down, from the overwhelming submissions they receive, the handful of novels they know they can represent.

I believe most writers who argue how publishers and agents do their business ... do so out of rejection frustration.

As emotionally connected as we feel to our novels, writers must understand publishing IS a business.

If we want to break into the business, then we need to learn how the market works.

It takes more than writing a good novel.

It involves learning how to write a strong synopsis, a catchy query letter, and proper formatting. It means researching for reputable publishers and agents. Knowing who accepts submissions for your kind of writing. It means accepting rejections without giving up and being a professional about accepting criticism and suggestions. Perhaps even learning a thing or two from them.

Even after all that. There are no guarantees. As writers, all we can do is work hard to improve our odds.

We can not blame an agent if, even after all that, our story just doesn't do it for them.

And guess what? Even an acceptance and getting published does NOT mean automatic fame and fortune. Promotion is a whole other ballgame.

It's supply and demand. In a market where there are more than enough publishable manuscripts, agents can afford to be choosy. The market allows.

What I don't necessarily agree with is the advice to write what you love. Is writing a business or not?

I write for a living. Marketing and sales copy for a large technology firm. If I had the option of making a good living writing what I loved, I would be writing for small non-profit animal rescue groups. But that's not an option if I want to pay the mortgage. Do I feel my writing suffers because I don't love writing about data centers and networks and storage arrays? No. I'm a professional. I know my craft and I know how to write persuasive sales copy for any situation. It's business. I can fake it.

If you approach fiction writing as a hobby, then, yeah, write only what you love. If you approach it as a business and depend on an income that you can retire on, then you'd best be looking at a career path that will get you there. And sometimes that means writing the types of stories that fit on the shelves, not in your souls.

It's great when what you love happens to be what's most marketable. But that's not a luxury you can count on. You may love selling pink widgets, but if no one wants to buy them no matter how persuasive your spiel, you can either starve or start selling the green ones that everyone wants. And when the market is glutted in green, be adaptable enough to start selling the next hot craze in blue. Doesn't mean you have to give up on selling the pink ones completely, but selling them becomes your hobby, not your primary business.

Binary Brain Strikes Again

Binary: "A numbering system with only two values: 0 (zero) and 1 (one)" colloq - either/or black/white thinking.

Re: "If you approach fiction writing as a hobby, then, yeah, write only what you love. If you approach it as a business and depend on an income that you can retire on, then you'd best be looking at a career path that will get you there. And sometimes that means writing the types of stories that fit on the shelves, not in your souls."
____________________

Well, I have so many responses to this, but I guess I will stick to hobby/business "binary" - oh, if only it were that simple! I picture those back-of-magazine ads for bottle cutters, or candle making kits, or metal detectors..."turn your hobby into a lucrative business!" As if writing fiction were as easy as making candles, or turning bottles into vases, or digging rusty wristwatches out of the sand. Or even - writing "Marketing and sales copy for a large technology firm."

Oh, I just laugh, ex-perpetual temp moi, imagining those tasteful slate gray or slate blue or slate something cubicles that you traverse with your sales copy, paying your mortgage, and disdaining that nervous temp with her vintage jewelry, excess of green clothing and half-hour lunch spent jotting in a too-expensive-for-a-temp hardbound journal, who-knows-what pitiful and/or self-pitying crap. Lines of poetry, even, the futility of it! Pathetic! But that chick in marketing, did you see her, she is H-O-T!

I could never write sales copy for a tech company and get paid for it. A) They would never hire me in the first place, and even if they did, B) I would quit after a few weeks, f*** it, I'm not writing this s***!

But, on the other hand - this isn't the way I feel about sci-fi, or "women's fiction" (still trying to figure out what that is, truthfully), detective novels - not too crazy about fantasy genre - books set in ancient Egypt are pretty interesting - Jodi Picoult is interesting - enjoyed Harry Potter series (would have liked a female Henrietta Potter main protag, though) - and I can imagine there are books I could write in these genres that would fit BOTH the "shelves" and "my soul."

Shelves/soul, profession/hobby, career path/garden path, mortgage/on the street, bestseller/great literature, yada yada yada...I want to say: I've known so many men like you - but maybe you're a woman...that painful, excruciating "binary brain" - it's either 0 or 1! When will you get this through your thick head, you weird, broke temp female! 0 or 1! 0 or 1! No one will want to marry you (and share a mortgage) if you can't choose between 0 and 1! Pick!

I remember those posters and so forth of Einstein, and hanging in the background would be the equation "e=mc2," and maybe an artist's rendering of an atom (They usually leave the mushroom cloud out, hmm, wonder why) - maybe 50 years from now we'll have posters of Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs, with suitably visionary expressions on their faces, with the phrase "It's either 0 or 1" hanging in the background.

On behalf of female what-the-hell-am-I-doing-here? temps and ex-temps everywhere,

Wanda B.

"As if writing fiction were as easy as making candles, or turning bottles into vases, or digging rusty wristwatches out of the sand."

Have you ever tried metal detecting? It's not as easy as it looks. And you can find better stuff than rusty wristwatches.

Wanda:

Wow. No offence, but…What on earth are you talking about????

I’d have to be on a variety pack of hallucinogenic meds for that abstract tangent to fit anywhere into the topic at hand. Never in my life have I seen it take so many words to say so little. I read the entire piece thinking I would find gold at the end.

Nothing. Nada.

Even the snow-shoveling-menstrual-yoga thing made more sense.

Truly. Stabbing my eyelids with pins would have been less painful.

Dear Anon:

Thanks for the bouquet (well it was rather small, so I'll call it a posey)-

You wrote:

"I read the entire piece"
_____________

Hmm, on second thought I just looked up the definition of "posey," it means "chamber pot," so I guess I meant posy instead...nosegay, boutteniere...

Wanda B.

Wanda: I'm Anon 10:10, not the other two anons who've already responded. I'm not really sure how gender fits in, but I'm female, single and a couple of years shy of 50. And I work from home, which is a 20-acre farm complete with chickens and goats. I work to support my current menagerie and to put aside enough money to be able to take in and care for a few more abused animals once I retire. Being broke is not an option for me or my charges.

During lunch, you can catch me working on my hobby -- writing something I love: a novel or another fantasy or SF short story (I've sold several). I have worked with, lunched with, and shared many a giggle with a number of temps over the years, many of whom were as clothes-horse clueless as me. But I am a realist. And if that makes me some binary-thinking bitch from hell, I'm not at all concerned. In fact, I'm quite happy with my life.

I truly, truly wish you could be as happy with yours.

Write what you know; write what you love; write what you have to write in order to survive. Agent what you know; agent what you love; agent what you have to agent in order to survive.

As an author, I want to know that my agent is passionate about my work. Otherwise, she's not going to be able to put that passion into her sales pitch to the editor. If you don't believe in something, how can you possibly make someone else believe? I think a good editor should be able to tell if the pitch is made out of love for a project, or merely to make a sale. I would feel cheated as a client if my agent felt otherwise.

Huckleberry Finn doesn't "start slowly" at all.

In fact, the first sentence is "You don't know about me without you have read a book called Tom Sawyer by Mr. Mark Twain" (I'm doing this from memory, so excuse me if it's slightly off).

Given that Tom Sawyer was a best-seller, I think that's pretty much a slam! bang! beginning.

Oh, this is ADORABLE!! Do you think you could post a PDF with a little pattern so we could try to make one too?

Shena (=

This is a genius idea! So very cute!
:)

http://picasaweb.google.com/mommydoodles/CardboardElephant

Check out these photos - maybe they will help

So glad you love it! it was fun and easy... email me if you need anything else!

OOOH, there's directions in the book? Maybe we'll have to check it out! What is the name of the book?
Shena (=

very cute - looks like you have been very busy with the new room.

Shena (=

I got my first agent through a referral. The agent I'd queried referred me to a new agent in NYC who was just starting out and building her list. This agent and I were together for a couple of years and and she was really wonderful, I miss her. But she decided to stop representing genre fiction. Her name is Doris Michaels and she's still agenting, but her focus is non fiction.

Another good post. I wouldn't think I'd want to share with a new agent that I've been rejected. Wouldn't you want the agent to look at you with a fresh, unpredudiced (sp?) eye?
Of course, if asked I'd think you'd have to tell the truth as you'd want an honest relationship. Aren't most manuscripts sent out to more then one agent? So, chances are someone somewhere rejected it.
Random questions: How often do you take on writers whose manuscripts that need work? Of course we know they should be perfect when we send them, but I've also heard writers are asked to change things. What percentage need no work at all? What is the usual things that need fixing?

Jessica - I read your blog daily and I have enjoyed most of your posts, often learning something useful. But the tone of this one gives me pause.

I know other readers will jump all over me, but it's as if you're saying, "How dare a lowly, unpublished writer ask me, big successful agent, for a referral? And as far as a colleague sending a referral, that is simply beneath contempt."

Every successful writer was once lowly and unpublished. But aren't the writers the reason agents are in business? I think it's great some agents refer writers, not because they believe the writing isn't worthy of publication, but something about it seems a better fit for a colleague.

By the way, I've never asked for a referral after getting rejected. I have, however, been referred to other agents, one of whom I am waiting to hear back from right now. And I very much appreciated the hand up.

Aimless:

I can answer this more extensively in another post, but the changes would probably have to be minor. In the past I used to be more willing to take on books that I thought needed a great deal of work. What happened more than once though was that the author was incapable of doing what was needed. Because of that I'm more cautious now.

Anon:

I apologize for the tone. Certainly that's not what I meant. I thought I made it clear what I did mean in the post, but if not let me clarify/summarize... what I meant was be wary of the agent who gives every rejection a referral. That's not a referral, that's simply an out. And yes, I am a little contemptuous of agents who do this. It's not another's responsibility to do your rejecting for you. However, many times I have received referrals from agents. Agents who, like me, give referrals sparingly. In those cases I've been very happy to receive them and have looked carefully at the work. After all, it came highly recommended. However, when you receive submissions daily that say So-and-So referred me to you you begin to wonder.

As for authors asking for referrals after receiving a rejection. It doesn't hurt to ask, it's just that I won't do it unless I really strongly believe another agent is perfect for a project that seems fabulous. In which case I will definitely refer without being asked.

saPlease forgive me if I got the wrong impression (my brain is already tired), but: Agents say that they reject manuscripts that are publishable but aren't something they're excited enough about. I can understand that. I've tried to read published books that are well-written and others love, but I just can't get into them. So, if that's true, why should an agent immediately think "I don't want some else's rejects" if the person was referred by another agent? I'd have expected you to assume it was publishable material but simply something the other agent wasn't excited enough about.

I'll grant that a referral from an agent who knows your reading tastes quite well (even if they represent the genre in question) would hold more weight than a complete stranger doing the same, but are you saying that you'd automatically think "reject!" in both cases?

I've never gotten referred to another agent, BTW. I'm just confused. :) Thanks, Jessica, for the informative blog.

Jessica, we were typing our comments at the same time. I think your response to anon also answered my post. Thanks.

From anon 10:23:

Jessica, thank you for the clarification. BookEnds had been at the top of my list of agencies to query (with an almost-complete medical thriller) until I read today's post. Then my heart sank as I thought,"OMG! I could never work with people like this."

Now I see that I misinterpreted the spirit of your post and I am so relieved. Your reply to my angst-ridden comment has renewed my faith in the BookEnds team.

I'll give y'all a holler after the holidays. Happy, Merry.

I think this is one of those things that comes down to the interactions of human beings, one on one. If the referral is mechanical and somewhat automatic, then what you have is a mechanical response to your work. Not good. In fact, it's an insult, allbeit a passive-agressive one.

If a referral is a hearfelt, "I think you may get along with this other agent", then that's something from one human to another that takes into account differences between people. That's a good thing, and should be taken as a compliment.

The problem many of us have with the process of queries, etc, is that it seems so darned mechanical. I have started hanging around here because I want to have a good idea who these agents are (even though I tend toward YA, which you don't do!). I don't follow instructions on how to do this and that very well, but I respond to the audience I have.

What I read here is that despite the impersonal nature of the biz at times, you're trying your best. Thanks for that, I really do appreciate it.

Hi Jessica, I'm glad you clarified your position. The thing is that this type of referral isn't something that most writers are going to toss away, and to put the onus on writers for things that agents do bothers me. I understand how getting these referrals would drive you crazy, though, I really do. But is it really so bad? Maybe it's something that should be discussed with other agents, however, and not the writers who are only doing anything and everything they can to get their work in front of your expert eyes. I think new writers have it far tougher than agents, and while I empathize with your dilemma, I have to say please deal with it. Sorry.

Honestly, I don't get all of the hostility directed at Jessica about her comments today. Where is the hostility directed at the unnamed agent who misled writers into thinking they were receiving a referral, when all they really got was a rejection?

Or, maybe it was never the unnamed agent's intention to offer a "referral" in the first place. Maybe all he/she was doing was passing along information and the recipient misinterpreted. I've heard one agent say that, when rejecting a manuscript, she always adds a line such as, "I've heard that So and So is acquiring new writers; perhaps you could contact them." In those cases, she's NOT making a referral; she's passing along information.

Faye

Hostility - huh?

Differing opinions to a point in Jessica's blog doesn't mean we're hostile to her personally. It means we happen to disagree and try to give reasons as to why we don't agree or think it doesn't work. Please sharpen your pencils. Thanks.

Jessica,

Another interesting post and one I think writers need to know about. We would all like to believe that an agent recommending us elsewhere is doing so with good intentions. But if not, it’s wise for writers to be aware. And this is for several reasons. First, the writer might assume a recommendation of a the manuscript means the work is perfect and doesn’t need to be reworked before sending it off to another agent, when in truth it may have been rejected because it’s weak in one area; second, if the names are given without sincerity, then perhaps, some writers may assume the other agents are reputable, and if the recommendations are not coming from honesty, they might not always be.

Any honest post about this business often brings out the difficulties and emotional side of publishing/writing. And as with any subject that is emotional, when you speak up, you risk becoming a target due the frustrations of the business.

Thanks for putting yourself out there and giving us the insight to what goes on behind those closed doors.

And as for the comments about rejections in general . . . I have over ten thousand of those little suckers—most of them are from the freelance business. But I also have over 3000 credits in that market. So a rejection doesn’t mean something isn’t publishable. However, I’ve learned to read them, try to find some value in them, and then I move on.

CC

First: Jessica thank you for your answer. And I'm amazed an author wouldn't be open to working their story into a marketable product. As much as I love my story the way I wrote it I think there's a time when you have to remember theres an "artist" side to this stuff and then there's the business side. If you want to be published you have to be willing to make your creation marketable. I would love to see your answer expanded upon in a later post--thanks!
Second: I didn't see this post as having a negative tone. I thought it was more "just the facts". A referal would leave me with mixed feelings unless I targeted an agent who no longer covered the genre or perhaps was sending me to a friend who was just starting out when the first agent was no longer accepting. But if big agent refered me to other big agent without a reason I'd just be confused. Why wasn't I good enough for the first guy?
Okay, I'm blond, I confuse easily--thats why I need an agent!
;-)

Jessica, thanks for this topic.

Personally, if I were an agent, I wouldn't want my name (or my agency) to be the one the other agents whisper angrily about because I pass along every writer or manuscript I don't want to handle, regardless of quality.

So what happened with the agent who was sending you everything and everyone?

Thanks for the information. I have a question, and wonder if you would clarify something regarding your agency. I know that your past posts have indicated you don't like someone querying multiple agents within your agency, but I am wondering whether this refers specifically to not querying the same projects simultaneously to multiple agents at BookEnds or whether it also refers to separate projects. For example, I have one book that would best fall under what you represent and another book that would fall under what a different agent in your agency represents. Should I still just do one at a time or is it okay to query both these projects within your agency? Thanks very much for clarifying this.

Its always good to get an update like this one. I keep track of a few of my favorite agents and sometimes when its time to send out I have to go back and see who wanted what as I write in a few different genres.
I think the hardest part is finding which slot your book belongs in. A book about the end of the world that has a little girl who talks to the Virgin Mary fits in which genre? What if there are zombie type creatures in it? Does it automatically go in horror?
A book about a pychic who meets a serial killer- mystery? paranormal? And I still don't know where the woman reincarnated as a chihuahua goes! Inspirational?
Now I have to go polish that Creative Parenting book I shoved in the closet...
I'd like to see the rules for catagorizing books so I know how to tag them.
Jessica; It was nice to meet you at NJRWA. Your Polishing the Pitch seminar was great. (I met many writers there who wanted to pitch to you but you were booked up.)I think the hardest thing when facing an agent is not to get so nervous I sound like an idiot and start to ramble.
Thanks again! I'll be ready to pitch soon!

Oooohh, a question? I love romantic suspense too, but I like the Suzanne Brockmann, Tara Janzen style of rs. I think you can still have dark adventure rs, but it seems to be a hard sell. Is there a certain kind that you think of when you think romantic suspense. Or is it simply called something else?

:)

Thanks so much for the update! This is timely for me since I've just started shopping a romance.

However, much as I'd like to query BookEnds, I don't want to waste your time, either.

So, Jessica and Kim, are you open to science fiction romance? (meaning a very romantic tale that is accessible to readers who haven't read much or any SF.)

Thanks!

As a follow-on question to anonymous 9:25's:

Where you have cross-over interests (historical romance, for example), if one agent has rejected a requested partial, does that mean the agency has rejected it, or could I query another BookEnds agent about the same project?

Submissions etiquette seems to change from one agency to another, so it's hard to know what to do in special instances not spelled out in the guidelines :o)

I really appreciate all the insights you provide through this blog!

I'm sad to see none of you represent what I'm writing (memoir) but I love this blog and have learned a lot of valuable information here. I'll keep reading and maybe by the time I'm ready to submit you'll open up to fish-out-of-water-type memoirs.

Melanie

You ladies are getting me so excited! I can't wait until my current WIP is ready to roll. It's nice to see detailed preferences rather than a grocery list of general genres.

Kim,

When you say historicals not overly light, can you give an example of what is too light for you?

It was good this posted on a holiday. Publishers are closed and I definitely have the time to check in and answer questions. Some of these I might do follow-up posts later on in the year--so no one misses them. But for now here's what I can tell you...

We prefer that if you query any BookEnds agent with a project you do not query anyone else within the agency with that same project. Even after it's been rejected. Many, many times I forward projects on to Kim and Jacky if I think they would be more appropriate for it. However, if you've queried me, been rejected by me, but on your next book feel that either Kim or Jacky would be a better fit go ahead and send that new book to one of them.

Aimless--there are no rules for categorizing books. Sometimes you just have to take a guess. My general guideline is if you aren't sure of the genre what author would you best compare yourself to or what author's readers would most be attracted to your book. Another question to ask is what are the prevailing elements. Is it primarily a romance with suspense elements (romantic suspense) or a suspense with romantic elements (suspense). And sometimes what you think it is will be corrected by an agent or editor.

Jodi--When I think romantic suspense I think everyone from Suzanne Brockman to Lisa Jackson to Karen Rose to... You get the picture. I want action, adventure, and suspense. Not necessarily all in one book. No matter what though I want to sit at the edge of my seat.

Heather: I am open to SF romance.

Great questions!

--jhf

Thanks for answering our questions, Jessica!

Now go enjoy your holiday!

aka Anon 12:22 (didn't mean to post anon the first time...)

Great questions!

Heather - You're probably better off sending your SF romance to Jessica.

Rianee - I don't usually respond to historicals that are largely written in a tongue-in-cheek tone and more modern writing style. There's certainly a market for these faster-paced, frolicksome tales, but it's just not my cup of tea. That's not to say I like great big epic sagas either. I gravitate toward the more dramatic historicals that may have moments of witty banter between the hero and heroine, but eventually come to a very emotional, very complex conflict. And I like to feel as if I'm in the time period. Not necessarily reading about every detail of architecture, dress, etc., but steeped in the atmosphere of that time because of the writing style, the dialogue and the subtle period references throughout the book. As I mentioned before, I'm a fan of Elizabeth Hoyt and Samantha James.

What about time travel? Woman of this time going back to pre-civil war era?
Is there any market for that stuff now? I don't see any agents requesting such things anymore.

Thanks Kim,

I like to think mine are witty but very emotional and conflicted historical romances...oh, and hot too.

Aimless:

I think the straight old-fashioned time travel are tough. To work these days I think it has to have more of a supernatural element and be less about the confusion of being in another time. Since I know you were at my workshop this past weekend I think you'll know what I'm talking about when I mention the great time travel pitch I heard there and how different it was from anything else I've ever heard. For everyone else, the woman essentially traveled to the past at night, but lived her very contemporary life during the day. And of course there were other things happening.

--jhf

Yes, the time travel pitch at NJRWA was definately unique. It also sounded like it would be very complicated to write. Kudos to that writer for tackling such a concept. I would have to read that book just to see how she did it. Intriguing!

Thanks for the blog as always. Idle question, do you happen to have any of the names of those agents who like red-headed men?

Just askin'.

When I started looking into querying not so long ago, I began to notice this was the case, and from reading agent blogs, I also realized that even things like having your query read on the wrong day can screw up an otherwise possible chance. If you've got a headache, had a shitty day, or not had enough coffee, it can effect the read. So, I assumed going in the 3/4 of my queries were likely going to be a 'sorry, not for me' response. Writers just need to assume that a large chunk of their querying is going to get rejected for reasons that have nothing to do with how good the story is. Query far and wide. I think Miss Snark mentioned the magic 100 number. If everything is good, the query, writing, etc. then it's just a matter of time and timing to get it dropped in the right lap. Writers really can't afford to fret so much over rejected queries, it's not a reflection on them or the writing.

Oh, hope to meet you at RWA, Jessica. If not, have fun!

JDuncan
www.jimnduncan.com

Aren't agents in the business of finding books that will make them money; sussing out what will appeal to the end user?

Are editors like agents, i.e. do they choose books based on their personal likes, dislikes and phobias? Seems to me, that would constitute a very bad business model.

Since agents are the conduit for getting a product to market, one would hope they would choose the products they feel are most likely to sell, setting aside their personal foibles as much as possible.

Not trying to be argumentative here. Just honestly wondering.

Considering agents receive so many queries it would be natural that their own "preferences" would get factored in with what they say they will look at.

I'm with the above comment suggested by Miss Snark - query 100 times before you think of giving up.

Tammie