How to use this Page

Always a hard road to move on for an author... but most of the time it's the right call.

I thought your advice was pretty standard form--in almost any industry, not just publishing. If I were that dude, I'd totally be all over writing something new for the American market--I mean, why not? It would be a challenge and an exciting one at that...I kinda feel bad for his previous agent, though. I mean, ouch. If they needed help selling the book across the pond, then they would have called their agenty-friends here, right? That's what I'd do...

I'd think if the guy was doing well outside the US and had a pretty good rep that an agent would want to jump onboard on at least the potential of the author, even if it meant getting his book published at a smaller house. That is, it's a start. If the guy has promise, there will be rewards sooner or later.

I'm so glad I have found your blog! I see lots of relevant tips for me, as I am about to submit my work to an agent or two.

Thank you!

Stephen

Wow your a nnice agent. no wonder you get so many queries a day

Considering how challenging it is to achieve paying (any kind of pay) publication *at all,* I am not even remotely concerned with this issue.

I'll be querying everyone, editors and agents, big press, small press, and epubs too, all at once, and taking the best deal I'm offered, if I'm offered at all. I certainly won't turn one down because it won't lead directly to New York.

Wow, this really sheds light on a recent event which unfolded for me recently.

I accepted a publishing agreement from a small Inde publisher because it was an offer to get published.

It was only after the fact (before I signed a contract) in which I did the math and realized I would only be making 1.60$ a book, with no advance. Yes, I consider that very low.

But I could have lived with that, it was the demand of putting the publisher's very large, very tacky unprofessional looking logo across the top cover of my book that broke the deal.

My cover art didn't allow room for it and he refused to budge.

So, I'm back to the drawing board with querying.

I think all aspiring authors should research many things before breaking into print.

Thanks for your insight.

I have several romantic suspense novels published with small presses. My true love, however, is traditional mystery, and I just finished writing one. I've begun the query process, but this post certainly opened my eyes to the reality of what's likely to happen.

Too bad, because I, for one, much prefer mystery over suspense and wish publishers would offer a wider variety of genre choices.

Great points! I also would point to an article in the recent Romance Writers Report about "author mills" -- small presses who publish very low print runs of each book and spend most of their efforts begging authors to buy extra copies of their own books to distribute for sale, along with making authors do all the work when it comes to marketing the book...and bookstores refusing to carry the book. Before I signed with any publisher with whom I was unfamiliar, I'd first make sure the local bookstores will carry books by those publishers.

Author mills

Thanks for this post, and to those who have commented thus far--lots of good information.

Personally, my goal isn't only to be published, but to build a writing career. I am slightly nervous at your comment, Jessica, that "there aren’t that many publishers actively looking for new mystery authors" as my heart is into writing cozy mysteries. But, if I follow Ms. Stanely's advice from yesterday, I should also stay true to my voice. I know it's a risk, but I'm going to take my chances (for now) with my cozy mystery and hope for the best.

Thanks again.

I just had my debut novel published with a small press, which was no small decision for me. It's been an excellent process, though, and while I'm doing lots of marketing myself, it's no less than I'd expect to do with a larger publisher, especially if I wasn't one of their top tier writers.

My questions for you, Jessica, is this: You mentioned that agents and publishers look for how many books have sold, but what happens if I'm ready to query a new novel with an agent within six months of publishing the first? If my first book hasn't sold 5,000 copies in the first few months, is that a drawback, or do agents accept that a book from a small publisher might take a little more time to gain momentum?

Jessica's core comment, "it depends on what your goals are," pretty much nails it.

That said (and I have to admit to being incredibly biased, here, as someone who happens to own a small press), I say go with the small press. Why? A few reasons:

* The small press is much more likely to care about you as a person, and to actually like your book themselves. That's not the same as money, but there's something to be said for working with people who can actually give you the time of day.

* The small press is much more likely to engage you and respect your feelings about matters such as cover art.

* Average per-title sales across the entire industry are probably a lot lower than you think. Selling 5000 copies is WAY above average, and a committed small press ought to be able to do that.

* If your book does amazingly well, the smallness of the press isn't going to matter. If the book does well enough to interest a big house, the small press will probably say yes to a buy-out offer for your book; in effect, the small press just agented the book to the large press for you. On the other hand, if the book does super-amazingly well, then the small press isn't going to be so small anymore. Problem solved!

* Speaking of agents, much as they perform a valuable service in the industry, with a small press you're much more likely to get a deal without an agent, and keep that agent's commission for yourself.

* Either way, at the end of the day a lot of authors just want to be able to say that they're published, in a for-real, not on LuLu.com kind of way. Sure, it's a big deal if Tor picks up your new epic fantasy novel or whatever. That's major street cred. But it's a big deal if a small press agrees to put their name, reputation, and often quite limited marketing budget behind your book. All presses are choosy, but small presses are choosy in a way that bigger presses aren't necessarily forced to be. A big press can absorb a few duds, but the small press has to be sure they can at least break even on everything. So for a small press to back your book, that's no small testament to how the people at that press feel about your book's overall quality. It's different from major publisher acceptance, but it's something to be genuinely proud of just the same.

If you have the incredible luxury of choosing between offers from a large press and a small press, obviously you'd be a fool not to choose the large press. But your odds of getting an offer from a small press are higher to begin with (being as there are so many more small presses to choose from), and those presses have their own good points that are worth considering, too.

Happy publishing!

I don't write mystery, but I did start with an small epublisher in 1998 before anyone knew what ebooks were. Sales were abysmal, but at the same time, I was learning more about my craft. My first NY sale came from a series that was selling online through a small epublisher, and I know of many other authors who've made the leap from epublishing to print: MaryJanice Davidson, Dakota Cassidy, Michele Bardsley, Shiloh Walker, Lora Leigh--but all of those, myself included, write erotic paranormal romance, and all of us happened to hit the market when that genre was hot. In a perfect world, an author writes a book, finds an agent and gets a contract. The world is far from perfect and competition is growing stronger each year.

There's a lot to be said for learning more about publishing through working with a small press, but to really take a career to that next step, I can't imagine doing it without a good agent and a big publishing house as my ultimate goal.

I just checked the NYT bestseller list and I'd say almost HALF of the top novels are MYSTERIES! So why aren't pubs looking for unique mysteries from debut authors?

The number of mystery readers aren't going down--in fact, they seem to be more loyal to the mystery genre and an author than a fickle teen who likes YA. What will she read in a few years?

I think pubs who don't actively seek mystery/suspense are missing a big chunk of the market. Their loss--and ours!

Not only the post, but the comments are interesting.

I see alot of benefit to small press or e-book publishing, but I think people are wise to really thoroughly research what they are getting into.

I also want to say there's a third option, which is to wait for the market.

If mysteries aren't selling now, they may be selling later.

I guess this depends upon your goals, but it does seem like so many people are in such a rush. Why not wait abit and see if the market changes?

Of course, it's hard to know sometimes what the market is, but you can also guess. In economic hard times, people will want things that are fun and/or comforting to read. If you write horror, this may not be the time to try to get published, for example. Of course, I could be completely wrong - maybe horror is jumping off the charts, but that would be my guess.

Good luck to the author on finding a home, whatever they choose!

To Anonymous speaking of the NYT list. Bookshelves lump mysteries, suspense and thrillers together. Ms. Faust was drawing a line between mystery and suspense, which are two sub-sets under the larger mystery umbrella.

In romance, the genre is all lumped together as 'romantic suspense' although it's suppose to cover the gamut from cozy to thriller. However, having given in the 'suspense' moniker, readers assume the books will be suspense. But there are differences.

Anonymous #1 said:
I'll be querying everyone, editors and agents, big press, small press, and epubs too, all at once, and taking the best deal I'm offered, if I'm offered at all.

I suggest you rethink that approach. If you are unknown, and you query "everyone" simultaneously, you've already got a strike or two against you.

A query is a request that you be invited to go into business with the agent or publisher. You are offering your book, and asking them to back it with their reputation and financial resources. If you have not already built a reputation to bring to the deal, it is unlikely that the publishing industry will beat the path to your door. Your best chance is to understand where your book fits in the current market (and current market trends), and query the agent or publisher that is the best match for your work. Sending blanket queries to "everyone", without regard for the suitability of your manuscript to their interests (and current needs) will build you a reputation - but not one you'd care to have.

There are several literary agent blogs running; read 6 months of a couple of those, and you've got a better chance to avoid self sabotage.

Jonathan, I agree that reading agent blogs prior to querying is an excellent idea. However, I might be wrong, but I don't think multiple queries will build you a reputation. Agents get so many queries. I doubt they share info about who queries them....?

Interesting answers. I'm hoping if I self-publish in one genre and keep submitting to publishers in another, maybe the self-pubbed bit won't hurt too much. Not that anyone, big or small, has ever said yes. If they did, I'd find it extremely hard to say no.

I've not run into the problem of small press publication causing issues with obtaining a NY publisher. I signed with a big press this spring after three years at an indy Canadian press. The awards I won while at that press helped me sign with my agent and I'd like to think they might have helped with the NY contract.

My time at the small press paired me with an incredible editor who helped me hone my skills. I don't believe I would be writing for St. Martin's now if I hadn't spent the time at Dragon Moon Press.

One disclaimer, however. I switched genres (SF&F/historical mystery to Y.A.) so that does give my new publisher's sales reps more leeway when it comes to those dreaded numbers

Thank you, Jana, for weighing in. Your experience is very encouraging. It's good to know that starting with a reputable small press can lead to bigger things.

Congratulations on your St. Martin's deal!

Just a perspective from an indi-publisher’s point of view: when XYSTUM Publishing begins taking manuscripts the deal will basically be something like this:

A $500 advance.

A 50/50 split of net e-book revenues.

Quality original cover art.

Editing, line-editing, and probably the best e-book formatting in the industry.

Placement on every e-reader platform in existence.

And we will sell it as hard as we can. Because we want to make money off it--I'll bet even more than the writer does.

But we are a small indi-publisher; there won't be any TV trailers or that sort of thing. The author may not get all that a big publisher could give them, but I'll bet we give all that a big publisher will give them. We are a legitimate North American publisher, our ISBN is 9802475. If a writer comes with us as we start up, then they have to realize it’s a start up company—but we came to play. And indi-publishers, just like us, are going to dominate the publishing world in the next few years.

On top of that, we’re completely transparent in our dealings. In fact, I'll tell you right now, our motive is simple: we want a massive slush pile of gothic manuscripts and we want to go panning for gold. We're small, we're start up, but we believe in gothic literary art, we will accept nothing less, and we believe one day we'll discover the next Edgar Allen Poe or Emily Bronte. We’re small, but we’re passionate. Our first title is coming out in March (No doubt it will be late and come out in June, but what can you do?).

I resent that small publishing and self-publishing were mention in the same sentence-breath in the OP. I think that’s unfair, but hey, that’s life. What role will agents have in an indi-publishing environment? Probably none. We won’t deal with agented manuscripts—we can’t afford to. Let the big dogs have the agents. Because the next Mary Shelley or Bram Stoker will come from an indi-press. You watch.

Just a perspective from an indi-publisher’s point of view: when XYSTUM Publishing begins taking manuscripts the deal will basically be something like this:

A $500 advance.

A 50/50 split of net e-book revenues.

Quality original cover art.

Editing, line-editing, and probably the best e-book formatting in the industry.

Placement on every e-reader platform in existence.

And we will sell it as hard as we can. Because we want to make money off it--I'll bet even more than the writer does.

But we are a small indi-publisher; there won't be any TV trailers or that sort of thing. The author may not get all that a big publisher could give them, but I'll bet we give all that a big publisher will give them. We are a legitimate North American publisher, our ISBN is 9802475. If a writer comes with us as we start up, then they have to realize it’s a start up company—but we came to play. And indi-publishers, just like us, are going to dominate the publishing world in the next few years.

On top of that, we’re completely transparent in our dealings. In fact, I'll tell you right now, our motive is simple: we want a massive slush pile of gothic manuscripts and we want to go panning for gold. We're small, we're start up, but we believe in gothic literary art, we will accept nothing less, and we believe one day we'll discover the next Edgar Allan Poe or Emily Bronte. We’re small, but we’re passionate. Our first title is coming out in March (No doubt it will be late and come out in June, but what can you do?).

I resent that “small publishing” and “self-publishing” were mention in the same sentence-breath in the OP. I think that’s unfair, but hey, that’s life.

What role will agents have in an indi-publishing environment? Probably none. We won’t deal with agented manuscripts—we can’t afford to. Let the big dogs have the agents. Because the next Mary Shelley or Bram Stoker will come from an indi-press, you watch.

Thanks, writergrrrl. It's been one heckuva ride.

Gordon - I didn't mind the fact that self-pub and small press are mentioned in the same breath. They're just different points on the publishing continuum and I didn't sense the intent to tar small with self-pub "cooties". The takeaway message is that each writer has to decide how they're going to tackle their career, then live with the consequences.

Jana Oliver wrote: "I switched genres SF&F/historical mystery to Y.A."

Why the switch from mysteries? Over time, it seems easier to have/build a larger, more loyal fan base with a mystery versus YA.

Actually, I think the potential is greater in YA than in straight mystery if your books appeal to both teens and adults (as in Stephenie Meyer, P.C. Cast, etc). Teen sales numbers are amazing. Often Y.A. advances are higher and foreign rights are purchased a bit quicker. (At least they were in my case).

Since I wrote genre-blended mysteries the switch to urban fantasy wasn't difficult. I had intended to write an adult U.F., but a friend persuaded me to consider writing a Y.A. protagonist given the success of her novels. To my delight the story actually worked. Of course, at the heart of the series is a mystery (grin).

So there was a conscious financial component to my decision, but it was tempered by the demands of the story. If that hadn't worked I wouldn't have moved forward with the project. Extra money is always welcome but not if the book sucks. That's way hard to walk back.

Sold a "mystery" (although I billed it as a thriller, as does the publisher but it's technically a whodunnit style mystery) to a small press for a $5,000 advance, without an agent, last year, for a MMPB release. Asked me to write another one but wouldn't contract for book #2 until seeing it (or perhaps until seeing how #1 sells?).

"I'll be querying everyone, editors and agents, big press, small press, and epubs too, all at once, and taking the best deal I'm offered, if I'm offered at all. I certainly won't turn one down because it won't lead directly to New York."

I generally agree with this strategy with the following caveat: the larger players (i.e. agent-NYC house route) take longer to respond than do the smaller players. So I recommend giving the big players a 3-month head start before you approach the smaller ones.

This post has me wondering, do you and the author usually see eye-to-eye on career directions? Or does the author sometimes have a wildly different (or wildly unrealistic) idea of how his/her career is going to progress?

Wow, this post's timing is perfect. I just had one of those Eureka moments earlier this week.

Wow, it gave me chills just reading it and knowing that feeling.

Goosebumps. I know that Eureka moment!

I would guess that everyone does...we're all creative beings...I wonder what it is, though. What is that 'Eureka' moment? :)

Whatever it is, it's wonderful.

But it's good to talk about this, because part of the 'Eureka' moment is trust. Trusting that it will happen, even when it feels really far away. That all of the struggle and hard work is heading toward something; that moment of clarity and direction.

Thanks, Jessica! Nice Friday morning inspiration.

My problems is I have a Eureka moment, then decided a few weeks down the road that it wasn't such a Eureka after all. Maybe I am jumping the gun on my Eureka moments.

Just wanted to say (and I write kid's lit, so this isn't butt-kissing), I cannot wait to have an agent. I know that's obvious; we all do for the selling our work part, but you guys are so supportive and understanding of writers and the shenanigans involved in our work. Great post, Jessica

Having had one such moment while writing the proposal that will launch me in mass market after writing trade for the past four years, I can honestly say that it's an amazing feeling, the sense that everything suddenly clicks into place. I imagine it like all the tumblers in a huge combination safe lock falling into their proper sequence and the door swinging wide open. The proper combination was there all the time, but you have to line them up perfectly to access the rest of the ideas. I came close with my first shot at the proposal, but after reading it through, Jessica was able to see the obvious that I had missed. This was much more a team effort than Wolf Tales. In that case, I wrote it and Jessica sold it, but with my new DemonSlayers series, we tossed ideas around, I wrote, Jessica critiqued, I revised and THEN she sold it. The whole thing was a pretty amazing experience.

Wendy:

There is no usually to anything in this business and certainly for all authors there are moments when author and agent don't see eye-to-eye on the direction a career should take.

--jhf

Jessica, I tweeted this very thing yesterday: "Falling in love w/my new wip! It's taken 50+ pages to feel the love, but what a great feeling!"

Until that point, I was sort of trudging along, just having faith in the process. Then, all of a sudden, the clouds parted and the angels started playing their golden trumpets. To quote The Dead, "What a long strange trip" this writing this is...

Coolest post ever!

(Because, as much as writing is about skill and craft, those magic moments cannot be denied.)

love your blog!

Shelley

I know I need an agent, but this post reminds me of why- to have partner for my writing career who isn't a blood relative or friend, but believes in me anyway.

Of course, I don't know, but I sure imagine that this is near the top of the list of what every unagented author yearns for when they sit at home, struggle, and wish they had an agent!

These are the moments we live for, that will help improve our mss. and land us a good agent.
Just wish they happened more often--LOL

I love those moments. They don't come often, but when they do, it's something to savor.

On another note, are most historicals all about the sex? I guess my book is gonna be different in that sense since it doesn't really have any :P

Jessica,
I like how you both guide your client but also have a respect for their creative ides. But I do have a question for you. My book is about to go on submission. I've been working with my agent for quite awhile on revisions. At the same time, I do have an almost complete draft of a second novel--but I hesitate to talk about this with her because I feel the focus is on book one (my contract is specific to book 1) and I feel that the reasonable thing to do is to wait and see what happens with book 1 submission before moving on to discussing book 2. Am I thinking right about this? I have mentioned book 2 to her and she said she'd be happy to look at anything I send her-- but I guess I feel, in a way, that the proof is in the pudding--that we need to take book one to its conclusion before going on to the next thing. Appreciate your advice.

The worst part about a Eureka moment is not having anyone around who would completely understand and appreciate it.

When you call your writer friends, it sounds as if you're bragging. You husband nods and says "that's great" with a bit less enthusiasm than he said it when you told him what was for dinner. And your kids just smile that patronizing smile and ask if they can get back to their WOW quest, or do I expect them to watch me dance a little longer. As if I ask them to watch me jump around every day!

It's really nice to know my future agent might be the perfect one with whom to share 'Eureka!'.

I keep reading author blog posts about "muses" and I'm not sure what "muses" are. I'm thinking this is the same thing...

The eureka moment is wonderful when we have them of course, but I wanted to comment on your other point. How you, and other wise agents, will plan a career for your authors. It’s nice to hear that your concern is for the long term relationship and not a single book. Thanks for that. When I’m finally represented, I hope it’s by an agent that shares your views.

It reminds me of how the music business used to be. We could all name dozens of artists from the 70’s that are still around but nowadays, they’re mostly one-hit wonders.

I love this. I'd swear you are a secret writer, Jessica.
So many of us (perhaps all of us) do go through day6s, weeks, even years of feeling that what we're writing is just not right, but we don't know why, and then suddenly, one day, it registers. After having a half dozen mysteries published, I got it in my head that I had to write a mainstream, just had to or I'd never be taken seriously as a writer. I spent quite a few years starting novels, writing maybe 30,000 words and then nothing. I had no idea what to do with these characters, and to make this short, it came to me one day that the only thing I truly enjoyed writing was a mystery, and that mystery plots were the only decent plots that came to me. I'm back writing mysteries, DO NOT consider the time wasted in the least b/c my writing vastly improved with the experience.

I actually agree with Charlie. I liked the part of the post where you talked about sitting down with the client to discuss their future. I would guess that some agents are better at teamwork than others. Even though we know it, it's just nice to hear teamwork plays a major part in career planning.

If you could bottle the feeling of the Eureka moment you'd make a gazillion dollars. It is the best feeling in the world.

And no one would ever go to rehab for it since it's usually followed by incredible productivity.

Malia Sutton

"I keep reading author blog posts about "muses" and I'm not sure what "muses" are."

When I get a sudden flash of insight into a plot I'm working on, a sudden idea for a scene, a sudden interaction between two characters, or just a sudden creative burst of energy that inspires me to write something - I call those my "Muse Moments". A muse was usually defined as a spiritual or divine being, or even a mortal person that inspires that divine feeling, that is an artist's companion and inspiration for their creativity. For me, I use it to describe the moments where I get a sudden desire to be creative, as if my muse used a little bit of her magic on me.

That's just me, but hopefully that helps define it a little better. By contrast, I see "Eureka" moments as times when everything 'clicks' into place and it just feels like you're on the right path. I believe the source of it is our intuition telling us that we made the right decision.

I love Eureka moments! Knowing they are out there always helps me during my down days.

I had one of those moments with my current wip. I tried several different ideas and it just wasn't working. Finally something clicked and it made sense. I had to cut 45 pages, but it's SO much better now.

The worst is when I try to force something that isn't natural to me. I want to be writing A so badly, but B is what is in my heart.

It just comes through on the page when the work is from the heart and when it isn't.

So I guess it's a matter of getting out of your own way :)

Fascinatin, because one of the things we're often told in the UK by agents is that if an author has any success with a first book, an agent will insist they write more of the same, and as an author that's a scary thought, because it takes a lot of books, and a lot of experimenting to push the boundaries in every direction and discover "your" voice - what you don't want is to be stuck in literary adolescence.

I had a Eureka moment a couple of weeks ago. I've known for years I wanted to write a love story with a middle-aged woman as lead, falling in love with a younger man. But I've never had a story to hang it on. I even changed my last novel to shift frommother to daughter because it's what the story needed. The 2 weeks ago I was on the bus and the whole thing came to me. So when I finish my curent novel in 5 weeks' time, I will begin Life Drawn freehand, the story of Ella, the 53 year-old life-drawing teacher whose son dies whilst volunteering in Africa, who decides to give her work and herself away for free for one year, for the sake of his lost life, and her lost ambition. She becomes a minor celebrity until she falls for a wealthy 17 year-old boy who takes her on a once in a lifetime trip to the place her son died. I haven't been so excited about a new project since, well, the last one.

And to show how web 2.0 the literary world is, the first thing I did was posted the synopsis and opening chapter on my blog, and put a link on twitter and all my friends' Facebook walls.

I had one of those moments about a month ago. My agent had asked me about the sequel to my latest work and I had to admit that I'd stalled on it because I couldn't figure out which direction to take it in, namely which characters to use for POV's. I had actually set the story aside, half written, for close to a year. Suddenly, I realized that one of the characters had kept showing up in scenes and I knew she was the one who needed to be heard. There's a certain sense of relief and renewed confidence that comes with those moments that just fills you with energy and enthusiasm.

These are some of the best feelings out there, and its good to know that agents can appreciate them in the exact same way that authors can.

I'm also glad to know that agents often have our careers in mind, and I hope that when I get an agent she doesn't mind selling four or five different genres with my name attached to it. I couldn't imagine just writing one genre, but that's me.

That moment is why I'm writing at all. Funny how those "moments" can make such a huge impression on your life...isn't it?

I think it's great that yo can share the passion and magic with your authors.

Kinda like that golden moment in second grade or thereabouts when it just clicks in that you can read now! Oh, the freedom and mystery at your disposal.

This was a really great post to read since I am about to start sending out query letters for agent representation- I'll have to bookmark it for when the inevitable "no thank you's" come in, knowing that there's a "yes, please" somewhere on the horizon.

Paige, your post made me laugh because I had a HUGE Eureka moment in the middle of Costco one Tuesday afternoon, with all three of my kids in tow, and literally wrote half of a scene from my novel on the side of a box that once contained something like 10 pounds of Stacy's Naked Pita Chips. Gotta tell you, people stare at you when you do that :) Then I had to make sure that I kept that box! Just goes t oshow that your inspiration will hit you whenever it feels like doing so, and you're really at its mercy rather than the other way around.

Oh, by the way...now I keep a pen and pad in my bag at all times. And next to my bed. And in my car. And...

GOOD TO GREAT: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Other's Don't, by Jim Collins.

Most excellent.

For general philosophy, thinking outside the box and general good having a business reading I recommend an older book called Growing a business by Paul Hawken. It was very useful to me when I started a small business in college.

No one can live without money. So why do I find finance so dry and - yes - boring! I love the clever name of your blog, but why have you referred to 'Irish' pubs particularly? Pubs are everywhere. The great British pub is an institution! I'm sorry to be so curious, but I'm Irish, you see!

*rubs hands* I have several recommendations:

1) Thou Shall Prosper by Rabbi Lapin
2) I second The Millionaire Next Door that's in your list.
3) The Millionaire Mind by Thomas Stanley.
4) The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey (for people who want to live without using credit... lots of interesting facts, fabulous budgeting tools)
5) The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach

How about the Motley Fool Personal Finance Workbook: A Foolproof Guide to Organizing Your Cash and Building Wealth (by Gardner, Gardner, and Yochim)?

Hear, hear! Honestly, The Millionaire Next Door changed my whole mindset about who's rich and who's merely LOOKING rich. Another good book: The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach ... it's my default gift to graduating seniors.

What about Your Money or Your Life? It can be a little preachy, but its point about how money reflects values was really compelling to me.

Anyone reading what's already on your list should also check out Business Week. They usually devote part of each issue to personal finance. Recently they've run some very timely articles.

"Get A Financial Life" by Beth Kobliner is terrific and easy to follow. It's the only book I've read that actually explained the difference between regular IRAs and Roth IRAs in a way I could understand, and it's filled with practical advice.

I'm sorry, but do you actually critique queries on your blog? I know sites like query shark did...

The Wealthy Barber is highly readable and often funny. A great guide to managing personal finances.

Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin - loved the philosophy from a financial, personal fulfillment and environmental standpoint. Sigh...if only I had more willpower to live my life less ordinary.

I don't know if you're into stock trading as opposed to investing, but if you are then you should check out How to Make Money in Stocks, by William O'Neil. He's the founder of investors.com and extremely knowledgeable when it comes to stock picking.

I love anything written by Suze Ormand. I've had long talks with my single girlfriends about what was your first Suze book, what made it great, how did it change your life, etc. I love how she addresses the emotional side of money and connects it to very sound money advice. My first Suze book really helped me change my life financially and gave me the tools to pay off my credit card debt and student loans and get to the point where I could buy a condo AND increase my retirement savings. Really. Suze Ormand. You can't go wrong!

Awesome advice here.

I sometimes ask people, "if you suddenly won a million dollars, how would you spend it?"

The winner is the person who says "I wouldn't".

Kristin,

I've owned my accounting practice for 26 years now and would like to clarify some tax ideas listed in your post.

Many businesses do not need to rush out and organize as an entity (LLC or S-Corp). However, an LLC has advantages over a straight S-Corp. An LLC can be treated as a single member (sole prop tax rules) or as an S-Corp. It is a simple process to elect either. You can be a single member LLC this year and a LLC treated as an S next year by election.

I think once you have a sale and before the any revenue reaches your paw, you need to be an LLC. Example: Assume you will have a $10,000 profit in year one. Not enough to justify an S-Corp, but as an LLC (single member) you can do a triple-net lease back of your home office. If reasonable rent for your home office for $500 per month, you have shifted $6,000 from Schedule C (earned income subject to the 15.3% self employment tax) to Schedule E (unearned rental income only subject to ordinary income tax), about a $900 tax savings per year.

If you have a larger profit, say $50,000+, it is time to elect to treat your LLC as an S-Corp. You are now an employee of the company and must pay all payroll taxes. The beauty of this beast is that you pay yourself a reasonable wage and the rest flows to your personal return without self-employment tax.

The risk of the S-Corp is that it is under assault by Congress. Rep. Rangle would like this loophole closed. Then, S-corps without employees would see no advantage from this strategy.

I agree, a tax professional will save you more than you ever pay her, just like having an agent pays.

I love it when people talk taxes. Makes my blood boil. A good boil. So I get off saving people money, sue me.

One final note: Do not take advice from a blog or a blog comment. Seek a tax pro. Comments on retirement info require further explanation.

And HSAs were not covered and are a valuable tool as well.

Hope this posts only once. Computer is jumpy.

I dream of winning a million dollars and paying off my mortgage, credit card and student loan with one big check each. But its not going to happen, sigh, and I'm not going to hold out hope to sell as many books as Rowling or (what's that Twilight author's name again) which is probably what I'd need to do to see that much from writing. I guess I'll just have to work it away slowly like everyone else.

I hadn't thought about what to do w/ the money...b/c it never really occurred to me that my book might make money!

This is all very good advice. If and when I see my book starting to have revenue, I'll be seeking the help of a tax adviser!

This is awesome advice! Makes me want to sell my manuscript. Wait...I wanted to do that already:)

This remind me I'd better enter my recent expenses right away.

This year I've been much better at keeping track of my expenses than before, but I've been falling behind this month what with all Kristin's whip cracking getting me to work. :-)

I'd like to suggest that people find a SYSTEM that works for them, and use it, to record expenses, revenues, and schedules.

For writers, whose business is, after all, relatively simple, that system could be an accordion file, and some sort of calendar/contact program. (Do your schedule and call-backs/contacts on something computerized, though, so that you have the ease of searching.)

Next, get comfy with Excel. It's amazing what you can do to organize your approach, and to answer questions with that. And even simple businesses need to be able to add columns of numbers with accuracy, and to sort things based upon time, type, etc.

Oh, and don't forget back ups. Everything should be backed up at least twice, and I like a third.

Kristin,

One more thing about the Roth IRA. And this is really just informational--I wouldn't encourage people to use this feature--but you can get the money back if you really really need it. Because you're not contributing pre-tax money to Roths, like with regular IRAs and 401ks, there is no penalty for withdrawing your original contribution (there is a penalty for withdrawing anything earned on that income).

So, people can feel good about paying themselves first, as well as knowing if the direst of emergencies occurred, they could still tap into that (though that is strongly discouraged).

All good advice, but you left out the part where a new author spends as much if not more than s/he earns for publicity, appearances at conferences, office supplies and equipment, etc., etc. I've sold through on both of my mass market series' first books, and I've made a profit, after expenses, only one year, and that was in the low four figures.

I'd be thrilled to be able to set up retirement funds or make investments. But most of us don't have that luxury.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't tell you how many of your posts I've printed and refer to often.

My advice to anyone who hopes to one day be a full-time writer is to start saving money now. If you get a raise, keep living at your old standard and put the money into savings, and put any money you earn from writing into savings.

That way, you have a nice cushion before you quit the day job (or get laid off), and that makes waiting for publishers to send checks a lot less stressful. The publisher checks just replenish the nest egg.

In my case, the savings made it possible for me to freelance and work on my books instead of looking for another job when I got laid off seven years ago.

Thanks for the advice! I have to admit, I had to read this over a few times before I really got some of what you were talking about--I'm a bit slow when it comes to investment talk, even put as simply as you did!

Also, in that list of things a writer should pay for is very often his/her health care. Depending on the State you live in, your age, and what kind of coverage you need, this can be pricey. I wouldn't necessarily say that setting up a HSA is the better way to go in health care as referenced by an earlier poster. When I looked into it, having a HSA didn't drop my monthly premium by all that much, and it wasn't worth it to set aside money in an account for tax purposes--there were other deductions I could take. I also wouldn't bank too much on interest in any account. Interest on accounts is not real high at the moment for Money markets, savings, etc.

Also, don't forget in some states, you need to pay a state business tax (WA State for example) once you make over a certain amount of money. (And it's not that high, I believe around 28K or so for WA State) So along with your federal tax, you will also be paying a state tax.

In other words...don't quit the day job writers...

Great advice! I tend to avoid thinking about taxes until January. Of course, I don't make enough (yet) to owe a huge chunk of money, but some day. . .

Couple things:

Make sure your financial/tax advisor understands the quirks of taxes for writers.

And if you have a day job, boost your withholding to cover the added income. That way you don't have to start paying quarterly taxes until you are able to quit the day job, and it's one less thing to have to keep track of yourself. Several years back we had a lucrative contract deal. I went from withholding as Married with 2 dependents to single with none and had them withhold an additional $100/mo. No quarterly filing, just larger withholding (MUCH larger) and when April rolled around I had already more than paid what we owed. (And you don't have to pay your payroll department to adjust your withholding - the CPA will want to be paid for doing the quarterlies. They aren't difficult and you can easily do them yourself, but why not avoid it altogether if you can?) If you file a joint return and your spouse is the one with a "day job" then adjust his/her withholding for the same effect.

Excellent post and thank you Keith Schroeder for adding your professional advice. Also, for those of you who are RWA members, Stephanie Bond gave an outstanding seminar at the DC meeting on managing your writing business(including advice on contracts). You can check out the RWA site and see about purchasing a copy of the tape.

hi, your blog is very helpful to writers. I'm hoping one day I'll be a published writer. I hope some day you can check my blog out.

My son, the author (ian@ianthealy.com) forwarded this blog post to me. I've been doing his taxes "forever." I agree with much of what Keith wrote, but I'll provide some contrasting opinion:

An attorney may have other thoughts, but I think the use of an LLC for a person with no employees is overblown; it makes for a nice cachet, but doesn't really afford liability protection; a good attorney can always sue you the person in addition to your LLC.

Charging the LLC triple-net rent for an office in the home doesn't work because of Code Section 280A(c)(6). If the home is jointly owned, the spouse can rent his half to the writer, but the writer is limited to the normal office-in-home deductions.

I'd suggest using a 35% tax rate instead of 20% so as to include self-employment tax. Figure the 35% on income after deductible retirement contributions and business expenses. Whether you pay this through increased withholding from your day job or through estimated tax payments is immaterial.

If you really hit the big time, consider a Solo 401(k) plan instead of a SEP. You can sock a lot more away on lower income.

Don't rely on my ideas to avoid IRS penalties without getting the full skinny (IRS Circular 230 says I need to say this).

Kristin-

THANK YOU for dishing out the real deal. Writers (myself included) appreciate it. :)

Thanks Kristen!

In these days of steadily lowering advances...one wonders whether the publishing industry at large expects any author to earn enough to even be a nice addition to the day job.

Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you! Increasing your web traffic and page views Add, add your website in www.directory.itsolusenz.com/ site, it's pretty awesome too!

Looking forward for more of your postings. I know everyone is eager to read informative topics like yours. Thanks for sharing.

What a great post! I, too, am a tax accountant and financial writer. I agree with the above post that an LLC for 10,000 worth of income is probably overkill. LLCs cost money to organize, and it might not justify the tax savings, especially if the taxpayer is paying an attorney to set up the LLC.

I like parnerships (for small businesses) and C-Corps (for larger businesses) the best. Since most husbands and wives work together anyway, just forming a partnership can drop your audit rate from 3.9% all the way down to 1%. This is a huge percentage drop. That's because self-employed sole-proprietors get audited at a higher rate than any other business. A partnership return usually requires a field auditor and the IRS just doesn't have enough qualified people to do it.

I've been through about 10 audits this year already and they have all been awful. I definately feel that the auditors are feeling pressure this year to produce tax revenue. Anything you can do to lower audit risk is good.

When querying for new books, if an author has been previously published and earned out the advance, is that something to mention in the letter, or would that be too mcubh info?

e.g.

About me:
Previously published under name XYZ, TITLE, PUB, YEAR, advanced earned out.

Or would that come off as braggacio?

Great advice, most writers focus on just getting published, but its important to realize that it doesn't end there and finances still need to be taken care of. Thanks for the helpful tips!

J. S. Hawley: Newbie author.

Wish this had been written out like this when I first signed my initial contract. What I was pleased to see was that my books earned back their advance and I was able to make some small repairs on house and car and make the holidays and birthdays nice for the kids. As a currently middle of the pack author, they'll be no living off my writing for awhile. But is is nice to have the advice spelled out so simply.

J. S. Hawley
Author of
'Come With Me' & 'If You Were Mine'

Thank you for the post. I am saving for the day I actually make money!

Thank God i'm irish, and whenever i do get published i'll be exempt from taxation (as i'm living in ireland)but i've read that "I should point out that even if you are a bona fide artist living in Ireland--the Arts Council of Ireland makes the decisions on these things--you still have to pay taxes (usually) on income earned in the United States. . . you have to pay a flat 30 percent tax on royalties on books and whatnot sold in the U.S. "

Is this true? and would it be the same for every country?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/358/can-artists-live-in-ireland-tax-free

I should forward this to my literature-major daughter, who keeps asking why I'm not writing a "real" book. I tell her, I like what I'm doing. Other people like reading what I write. You want a real book, you write it.

Jessica, what a wise post. Er, first off I spent years trying to get my hair to go Flock of Seagulls but it just didn't want to know.

An agent recently said in a blog on the Harper Collins site Authonomy that when an author gets their first deal, the first bit of advice she gives them is "write more of the same". I'm nearly finishing my fourth full-length book. My first two were, respectively, a travelogue and a thriller. Both taught me an incredible amount about writing, but they were both attempts to "write something commercial" taht I thought I could do but my hert wasn't in. I nearly got a deal with both of them.

If I HAD made it with either two things would have happened. I'd have stopped learning, and I'd have been stuck doing something that wasn't "me".

I now write what I love writing, magic realist literary fiction. It's not particularly commercial, but it IS me. I still don't think I've stopped learning, though - I KNOW my nexct project will be women's fiction, and the one after that will either be SF or a manga collaboration before I go back to litereray fiction. That's one reason why I am now self-publishing and ONLY querying the one or two agents I would kill to work with (fortunately one of the two has said she wants to see my next projects). I do have the confidence I'll "make it" one day, maybe even write the kind of books that win little prizes, and that for me would be success. But if I "make it" and get a publisher for my current book, there's a very grave danger - for me, maybe because I'ma slow learner - that my writing will never get the chance to develop in the areas I want it to

Of course, self-publishing is no way for everyone - probably only for a very few. But before you sub that script, you reallyshould ask yourself, "Do I really want to make it with this novel?" Of course the aswer seems to eb yes, but what I mean is, see yourself in 20 years' time, having made it with the novel you're subbing. If the answer's yes, then go watch Misery, and if the answer's still yes, great, sub it. If not, get as uch feedback as you can, learn everything you can from it, and move on.

Thanks for a much-needed reminder. I wrote three so-so novels before finding my niche in medical suspense. Now, when I find myself itching to "do something different," I think about the non-reception those works received.
Once you're contracted and published, the approach to writing does--or at least, should--change. Of course, the biggest hurdle is getting published in the first place.

I don't get this -- the supposed bashing of commercial fiction and the authors who write it. I don't see it.

In fact, on most agent blogs and at most writers conferences everyone DOES write commercial fiction.

Who exactly is looking down on it? If anything, I see the opposite -- genre writers calling lit fiction writers' work "boring," "pointless," and "navel-gazing," as if people that don't need a huge plot, murder, or car chase banging them over the head are less of a reader/writer.

God forbid anyone should want to write a quiet or thoughtful novel nowadays. They immediately get pegged as someone who is pretentious or trying to write The Great American Novel. I've had "quiet" novels get passed over again and again, by editors that praised my writing but said that in todays market they need something "big."

Thanks for a terrific entry, Jessica. I started writing and went to an advice website - where you can ask a real live professional something about writing/the publishing world/agents - whatever.

The question I asked was if vampire books were still selling. The industry professional that responded told me no. That it was hot two years ago but that no one was buying it now. I was crushed.

Did I stop writing my book? No. I had a moment of clarity. I read these books all the time. It's all I buy. Everything paranormal with an edge. At the time I wrote to the 'professional' I was reading two to three a week (this was this past winter).

I realized I was the market audience and the books were still making the bestseller lists. I ignored the expert and finished my book. I'm proud (okay, almost) to hold my head up and say, "Yes, I write Erotic Urban Fantasy."

And, yes, you guessed it - it's the 'erotic' part that makes me stumble when I answer ; )

Excellent post, Jessica!

It took me a few years to figure out who I was as a writer. The learning curve is freakin' steep!

Once my confidence in my writing ability grew, I had to explore various genres to pinpoint my areas of strength, because as much as I love reading historical romance, I couldn't write it if my life depended on it!

Trying to write a genre because it's hot, or everyone else is doing it, or your writing group will dump you if you don't write a particular genre will stifle your writing voice.

Each writer must follow his/her own path. You will be happier as a writer and your voice will shine if you discover a genre that you enjoy writing.

I may never sell a story, but I'll have fun writing them!

"I tried over and over to do the kinds of books that weren’t true to me, but that I felt were “cooler” than the kinds of books I really had a knack for."

That was SO me! Is so me? No, I've at least realized that, right now, I'm not a literary writer, even if I really love literary books. Don't get me wrong, I love genre books too. In fact, they're what got me reading in the first place! So even though I don't put a stigma on genre books, I know other people do, and I'm working through my irrational annoyance and fear of that. {sigh}

Great post, though. I think writers (young/new ones especially) need to hear this from industry peeps.

One great example of this is Jeff Abbott, who (somewhere in his blog explained that) for years he tried to write literary novels -- like the ones he loved and people respected -- but he could never make things come together until he realized he just was NOT a literary writer. Now he's a successful thriller writer!

http://www.jeffabbott.com/

This is awesome. You should put some inspirational theme playing in the background when this post is opened.

Like Eye of the Tiger.

Yeah. That would work.

Now, off to throw out that cowboy hat ... :)

Jessica, This is a FABULOUS post. Love it! All so true. And *very* well said.
;-) Bella

I couldn't love this post anymore if I tried. I enjoy what I write and I'm damn proud of it! To me, making people laugh and bringing them along for a good mystery at the same time, is a true gift.

I'm writing the second in a mystery series right now, and I'm dabbling in changing the POV from first person to third. I've been having a similar conversation with myself: "Do I naturally write better in first person? It's easier, but does that mean I shouldn't give third person a go?" It's not exactly should I change genres, but it feels similar. Hmmm....

I posted a short series of rants on my blog about "chick lit" for exactly this reason. Just because a genre is popular, or commercial, or lighthearted, or fast-paced, or WHATEVER, does not mean it is crap.

A good story is a good story, and most of us write best when we write the story that calls to us, not the one someone else tells us we "should" be writing.

I got a VERY small taste of this in the blogging world. I built a huge readership on another site based on blogs I wrote while I was single. They were very Sex and the City. Soon they came to expect this was how my blogs were going to be. The problem was, once I was in a relationship, I couldn't write about the difficulties of dating in your 30s and my readership dropped. So I began writing about the difficulties within relationships and built my readership up again. It became exhausting, though, because any time I veered off to do something different, people would lose interest. It definitely takes away your freedom.

Great post! Thank you, Jessica.

It was clearly important to you to convey your idea here, and I thought you did so splendidly.

It's been a long while since I've been truly inspired or impressed by a blog post. I've been amused, entertained, and so forth. But this was phenomenal and I think I know exactly what you mean.

We are who we are. We can change if it fits us to change and is part of our metamorphosis, but if we force the change it can be detrimental.

I'm pretty certain I've tried wearing others' hats and found they were too big, too small, or made me look funny or uncomfortable. In the end you gotta put on the one that fits.

Bravo! This post deserves 5 stars! .

You hit me with this on the perfect day. I can't even tell you how much I've been struggling with this in the last month, there's not enough comment space.

Thank you for the reality smack.

I've long suspected that for most of us there are certain types of books and/or writing that works best for us. Some of it's a matter of style but some of it's a matter of who we are and how our brains work. I'm good at a certain kind of thriller with a propulsive plot. When I try to write slower things I often run into trouble (which makes sense, because I often have problems reading those books, too). I'm also good (perhaps very, very good) at a certain type of nonfiction writing, which is probably why I'm so successful at it.

I think it's worthwhile for a writer to ask themselves what they value in writing. Is it lyrical prose? Evocative description? Fast pace? Complicated plotting. Lengthy characterization?

I value clarity and efficiency over lyrical and poet prose, fast pace (which often has to do with efficiency). In fiction I also want a generally high level of incidence and an approach to characterization that's more of a lightning rod to the character than a textural backstory. Depending on the writer I value all the other things, too, but I find that what I like in other's writing is what I value in my own.

Excellent advice. I look at genres as a classification of the elements of the story, not the writing itself. Each genre has its own good, bad, and ugly. Strive to avoid the latter two and you can retain your pride whatever genre you choose.

I was once given the very wise advice to 'choose your rut carefully' which came back to me as I read your excellent post. The only problem I have is that I'm torn between something I'm having fun with and something a bit darker which is also calling. Hmm, hearing two voices? That can't be good!

I usually just lurk here but I had to come out of lurkdom to say thanks for this one.

As a person with a literary and academic background who writes genre, I've had to deal with this my whole career.

I wrote an article, now a blog entry, on what to say to people when they ask you "why don't you write a real book?"

Here's a link:
http://mbyerly.blogspot.com/search/label/real%20books

My husband thinks I'm selling myself short because I'm writing paranormal romance. I told him about Eloisa James who in near tears told us how she pours her life into what she writes. I told him about the workshops I took at RWA's Annual Conference where the room was full of anywhere from a few dozen to over a hundred women all trying to better our craft. That is real writing. He's lucky I didn't go into the role sexism plays in denigrating the romance genre.

I had a first draft done of a book that was good. I put it in the closet and realized a better direction to take it in. It involves more research, writing 50% from scratch and reworking the other 50%. I could edit and start pitching the first book, but I don't remember where I read it, but that first book is the first impression I make. Do I want to make that with something that is good or something that is me?

I chose to go with what is me, so now I'm enduring "when are you going to be finished?"

Great post today! Full of inspiration!

I add my voice to the chorus of praise... I'm a big advocate for being yourself. I envy writers who are natural commercial writers, but I don't want to BE them. I'm just hoping that one day I will discover I absolutely love writing something that just happens to be very sellable. In the meanwhile, I'm still having fun.

Thank you, Jessica. This post means a lot.


Shelley

such very good sound advice. I agree with Dan's comment here. I'll write what I know, I'll gladly stick to my "niche" writing style.

I don't care, just as long as I'm lucky enough to land a publishing deal and build myself a brand!

A friend of mine who is a best-selling author has a completed novel that she is sure will never be published because it's not what her readers have come to expect, and her publishing company thinks it would just draw readers away from her established market. How sad is that?

I tend to be a Pollyanna and it shows in my stories and on my website. But every so often I have the urge to write a whole lot darker, and I know that sooner or later, I'm going to devote a couple stories to the dark side.

I've created a pen name in preparation for that day, and have a MySpace page for that alter ego. No website yet, but I'm thinking about it. I may never get published in either form, but I want to make room for the possibility.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!! Several times I've felt like my genre is not 'real' writing...just fluff. Well women spend billions of dollars a year on this 'fluff' so who's not 'real' now??? LOL!!!

And my fav stories to write (and read) are romantic fiction, but offense taken what so ever!!

After I was orphaned by Bombshell, I wrote a paranormal that didn't sell. That was painful because I'd never written a book I loved quite that much. I still do, but it's never going to be published and I have to live with that.
I wrote a women's fiction that rocked my world, but my agent didn't like - it's now on it's 3rd rewrite and I'm shopping for a new agent.
My current project is a dark, edgy very romantic YA, which is out with several agents.
It's like I have ADD, except I don't.

I was successful with what I wrote for Bombshell, once called 'brainiac Stephanie Plum' by a reviewer. I won a RITA for my 1st book. But after the line closed, I began a long process of finding something new to write.

I'm still in the process, but had a Eureka moment when I heard Janet Evanovich speak at the RWA conference. She began in romance, but was never uber successful because she kept adding elements to her stories that didn't quite jive with the romance market. (Been there, done that.) Frustrated, she eventually stopped writing and reassessed her career. She decided to write mysteries, never looked back and now has a brand recognizable to countless readers.
Her advice - be true to your voice and your strengths.
Pretty much what Jessica says in today's post.

In genre fiction, especially romance, it's tempting to follow the market, to write to trends, but unless your voice fits, you're wasting your time. I believe you have to find your strengths, and write to that.

As for me, I'm reviving the protagonist from my Bombshells and breathing new life into her story. Will it sell? I don't know, but I'm having a lot of fun revisiting her world, and it feels right, so maybe.

I love this and I think you explained it perfectly.

Sometimes my husband gets overly enthusiastic about an idea and tells me "You could write about that!" and I have to reply no, no I really couldn't.

Stephen King has said that he has taken criticism for his writing and been asked why he does not write real books. His reply is he writes whats in his head and has stated that he thinks he is the Big Mac of the literary world. In other words, he writes cheap fast food compared to the succulent steak dinners of more literary works.

I would love to be the small order of fries next to his Big Mac.

A "real" book? I wonder why commercial fiction is marketed as not being real or meaningful. Just like I don't get why some commerical fiction writers think literary fiction is pointless and boring.

Perhaps I just don't understand why there seems to be such animosity between lit fiction and commercial fiction writers.

Anyway, thanks for the post! :)

Great post!
I write like I read...um...eclectic. (Did I spell that right?)
I've written a thriller that's in drafts, a paranormal romance that I think I love and that has spawned ideas for two others, and I have a manuscript where I ended the world with visions of the Virgin Mary and aliens. However I'm unpublished at this point. So this means if I sell something I'm going to have to stick with that until I'm so established it won't matter any more?
If Stephen King switched genres right now wouldn't we still read?
Is this why some authors like J.D. Rob are pen names for there other-genre counterpart?

Thanks for the Jessica. I've struggled with feeling "less than" with my work. The commercial vs. literary argument is about as pointless as the Mommy wars. There are enough books and genres for all readers. I like to read several genres, but currently only write in one. It doesn't have to be either or.

Great advice!

I have an historical romance that doesn't contain much sex out with an editor and an agent. Which may be an oxymoron in today's world, because all I hear is "write sex!" I may not be able to sell it to NY.

What my story does contain is comedy, which is the way my mind tends to run. I'm hoping the comedy will make up for the lack of sex, but the world may not be ready for a funny historical that doesn't have lots of sex.

You're being aggressively reasonable again. :)

Way back when I was in college -- the first time -- I took a creative writing course. Well, I did for a few days. I dropped when the professor said for the third time that he wrote literary fiction, calling everything else 'genre' with derision, or 'dime novels.' Now when people ask what I write, I tell them I write genre fiction. While I know where fantasy fits on the bookshelf, the word fantasy seems to open and I just like taking his word and using it proudly.

Great post, Jessica, and one that has a lot of meaning for me. I'm very proud of what I do, and that takes some explaining at times, since I write very erotic, "over the top" paranormal romance. The thing is, I know I'm good at what I do and I have no problem telling people what I write. It's not easy to write a story with explicit sex, a strong plot and characters that readers can become emotionally involved in, and I'll be damned if I'm going to feel less than an author because the stories don't fit someone's definition of what a book should be.

As writers we need to learn how to exploit our strengths--I can make jokes about turning my inner slut free, but the truth is, writing any kind of fiction and making it work takes a lot of skill and we should all be proud of what we do. If we're not, it shows in our work--I can tell when an author is uncomfortable writing a sexually explicit scene because it makes ME uncomfortable.

If you don't believe in what you're writing, you can't possibly expect your reader to believe in it. As you said, you have to own your own work. It has to resonate with you as the creator on an entirely visceral level or the reader will know you're a fraud. It's not easy, but damn, you know when you get it right.

What a wonderful little therapy session!

Writing has always been one of my first loves, but not something I have allowed myself to indulge in until recently. I am currently handling three different business/IP lawsuits with my husband - and no lawyer. I found I have a gift for legal writing, but the learning curve and research is positively exhausting. To keep my witing fresh, I began to blog about the experience. It was a wonderful outlet and helped to keep me inspired, however before long I was thinking more about my "audience", and what they want to hear. Fact is, my best posts were written when I was completely immersed in the experience and 100% myself. When I forget to "Be True to (me)", it's no longer fun, theraputic, OR good writing!

Sound advice indeed. I hear about other writers dabbling in various genres and I wonder how they manage such versatility. I'm most comfortable writing historical fiction. Immersing myself in research and filling in the blanks to bring the past to life just *feels* right. The couple of times that I attempted another genre - general fiction or YA - it felt more like putting my shoes on the wrong feet. Fortunately, I realized that early on and they never got past the first chapter.

A post for bookmarking when I go 'argh' at writing in more than one genre. Thank you!

What if being true to you means writing something different each time out? A mystery and then something comtemporary?

I feel the pressure to write certain kinds of books, especially since I am an adjunct English instructor at a university. All of my colleagues are writing academic books and nonfiction life stories, while I dabble in fantasy and romance.

Certainly I have felt embarrassed to have to explain what I'm working on. I'll never forget, however, when I was sitting next to the Assistant Provost, who asked me to explain my novel. When I did, and then tried to apologize for the material, he waved me off and said, "Write what you want to write and screw all the others."

Of course, this is the same man who tried to convince to elope with my then-fiance right there, considering we had several ministers present, instead of going through the hassle of a big wedding. So.

Anyway, if you enjoy it, then do it. And if it gets published, I'll read it!

Awesome post . . .

::dons bunny ears::

My name is Terri and I write genre fiction. I like stuff that goes boom and things that go bump in the night.

I just got a check today for my first piece of paid writing. I placed in a contest and made it into the anthology and got a $25 check to boot!

It is a short story where the murderer is a literary snob who kills her husband because he hit the big time with a horror story about cannabalistic zombies. She had to kill him - it was to save literature . . .

A couple of years ago I wrote an essay called 'Confessions of a Genre Hack.' I concluded the difference between genre and 'literature' is that literature is what you tell people you read and genre is what you really read.

::ducks thrown rocks::

I still stand by it. A good story is a good story. But, I have to have some plot. Give me "Raiders of the Lost Ark" over "Waiting for Godot" any day.

Terri <----- genre writer

verify word 'tings' - the cool feeling you get when you pick up a book that you really like.

Thank you for this. I spent years trying to write what I thought I should be writing (after having been published in what I REALLY should be writing) and I wasted those years and very likely messed up my writing career, because it has now been years since I've submitted anything. I must say I learned a lot during that time and improved my writing overall (it actually helps to write in a different genre just for the experience). My other problem, however, is that my first books didn't sell very well (at least, I don't think they did--how can I know?) so now I worry I'll never be published again if I stay with the same genre. I don't suppose I'm likely to get any answers to these questions/worries today.

I echo everyone's comments - this is a great post! And parts of it feel so much like you're writing them directly to me—HEY—get out of my head!!!

I have a feeling this post will be on a lot of peoples' "saved" lists.

Jeanne - I immediately thought about Mary Bly/Eloisa James too and how her mother never did accept James' genre writing. This, along with commentary about the Romance genre getting "smart," can be found in a USA Today article:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2009-07-06-romance-novels_N.htm

Personally, I find this twist of "scholarly writers empower the Romance genre" rather insulting. Does it mean that writers without Ivy League degrees and/or PhDs shouldn't be taken seriously? And what about readers? It's okay to read romance -- or any other genre -- as long as you've proven yourself academically? (And I say this as someone with lots of letters after her name.)

Marilynn, I hopped over to your blog. Thanks - I think. I see a new source of procrastination as I check out your archives.

Thanks for the reminder, Jessica.

Chryssa

Jessica,

Thanks so much for this post. I cannot write literary fiction no matter how hard I try, and so, I don't bother.

I write thrillers with a high technology content, and I am fine with that.

No, my books won't be hailed as the next epic novel. That's OK.

No, my books won't be pointed to as examples of great literary writing. They're not.

Do my readers expect that? No. Are they entertained. Absolutely. And that's what makes me happy.

Thanks, Jessica. With so much negativity out there aimed at those of us who write women's romantic fiction,
a little validity tossed into the mouth of our writing caves goes a long way.
:)
G.

Jessica, in the context of this post -- and your own preferences -- where does upmarket fiction fit?

Douglas said:

"I write thrillers with a high technology content, and I am fine with that."

::Flips head around, bunny ears gracefully flopping into place::

Huh? Does stuff go boom? I visited your website, techno-thrillers? WOO-HOO! Will check out your Amazon offering.

We agree almost completely on writers, have you read any Larry Bond?

This post gets a vote to go on the 'gotta read' list!

verify word 'corplad' - a really tacky business suit you wear because your boss has one like it.

Terri

Yay - Flock of Seagulls were the soundtrack to my early dates with my husband.

And I totally agree with working to one's strengths although it can be disheartening when ones strengths aren't commercial enough for the publishers, even when my last less-than-commercial effort won a readers choice award. And I write children's fiction which also apparently qualifies as something less than 'real' writing in some peoples opinions.

Someone told me to take a look at this post -- and as a cross-genre writer who's published literary, commercial, adult novels, kid novels, books of poetry ... I can say that it's not that one type of book is heavier lifting than the other -- as some would have you think. (Or not at least for me.) They're all weighty, the burdens are just different ...

And yes to ANON who talked about every project being different ... I say then yes embrace that too.

Julianna Baggott
aka Bridget Asher
aka N.E. Bode

Ah, you've captured it perfectly, write because you love to write, write for career later. Reminds me of my mom's advice, "Marry the first time for love and the second for money." She's still on the first, which I think was the point.

Thanks for that post. I also believe in being true to yourself, in every aspect of your life, not just writing.

I think it's sad that in response to a lovely post about embracing everyone's individuality, so many people have felt fine about denigrating "literary" writing.

If you don't like when people put down your genre, don't put down other people's genres.

Sheesh.

Great article, now can you tell me what my strengths are?
That's the hardest part the way I see it.

Thanks for post. It’s really imformative stuff.
I really like to read.Hope to learn a lot and have a nice experience here! my best regards guys!
--
rockymeet
--
seo jaipur--seo jaipur

Thanks for post. It’s really imformative stuff.
I really like to read.Hope to learn a lot and have a nice experience here! my best regards guys!
_____________
manishfusion

seo jaipur--seo jaipur

You're "not a literary reader, and you don't know what makes a literary work marketable"?

Why on earth are you in the business? "Literary" agent, isn't it?

LOVE this post. I write commercial fiction, and I know I've apologised for that in the past, especially to other writers. Then I read Richard Ford's Pulitzer prize winning novel 'The Sportswriter' and came across this line, which I have stuck to my PC:

"There is a place for literature, but a bigger one for sentences that are meant to be read, not mused over."

That line changed everything for me- thank you Richard. Since reading it right when I started writing I've been signed by a wonderful agent and sold the US rights of my novel (I'm an Australian, hence commenting so late) to the publisher of my dreams- but it was still that line and not those sales that made me own what I do and take joy and pride in it. It bears repeating though, and I really enjoyed this blog- good stuff.
Kylie in Aus

The word you're looking for is 'powerful'...real/not real, fiction/nonfiction, genre/non-genre...all are relatively meaningless distinctions.

The most meaningful distinction is that distinction which exists between works of greater/less power...power as the ability to move people, touch people, change the world.

Power...that's what a great artist wants and what an ambitious writer pursues.

Power.

Thank you...Scott

I feel the same way when someone suggests I try writing for a fad. Vampires, zombies, whatever specter-flavor of the month. I'm sure there are many good authors who can do this genre justice.

I'm just not one of them.

Months ago, I read this on a blog somewhere and it has stuck with me: Don't be ashamed of the genre you love. I think it perfectly sums up this post.

Hmm thanks for this post. I don't know why, but when I tell people I write fantasy I get the whole shuffle-away-and-give-frightened-side-glances reaction. But me trying to write a mystery or a romance novel would just fly apart. Writing something you're not passionate about is just a waste of time, and it probably won't get anywhere.

...and then there are those who break all the rules and write in several styles they like. There's the writer who made her name in 'how to' books, went on to become a major, major romance writer, and in a final closing of the circle, her book on 'how to write a romance'(an excellent book for any writer regardless of genre)has gone into second edition and stands on its own.

...and the writer who couldn't get her novel accepted and made a big name with non-fic books. She submitted her YA novel again, none of the publishers wanted to read it because she'd already made her name in non-fic. She sent it out under a pen-name and publishers vied to publish it. She became a big name again (her own name again by this time!)in that genre.

Then she finished the novel that had haunted her for many years, in yet another genre. Again, no one wanted to know - and now she has a three-book contract in that genre...

Yes, it can be a battle to change horses, but it can be done, and done very successfully.

Great post. I had the hardest time with this in applying to MFA programs for creative writing. My first step was to send an e-mail to almost every such program in the country, asking whether they'd seriously consider the application of a dedicated writer whose craft is solid, who wants very much to teach writing at the college level - and whose primary interest is YA fantasy. Many said, "no." Most of the others said, "Weeell, we mostly handle literary fiction and poetry, but of course writers of any genre are welcome if they're reeeally goooood . . ."

A number of people suggested that I just write literary fiction for a couple of years to fit into the MFA community. Um, no thanks. All the respect in the world, but that isn't me.

I'd still like to teach, but in the end, I decided that perhaps the MFA can wait until I have more publishing credentials. I want to be accepted - both by MFA programs and the teaching community - as exactly the kind of writer I am. Better to do the whole thing a little later than to trade my real passion for a faked one.

I write horror/thrillers!! Yeah!!!

i have always been of the opinion that literary writers are trying to create art, whereas genre writers are trying to create entertainment.

...obviously both don't always succeed.

i prefer to read and write literary fiction. not because i like 'art' better than entertainment... i'm not even sure of how to tell the difference usually.

i think that more than anything, when literary fiction adherents put down genre fiction they're complaining about two things in general: craft and emotion. if a genre story writer avoids cliches and writes solid, well-structured sentences, and they avoid the overly maudlin, they tend to get positive 'literary' reviews

actually, i don't know. in the end, i don't think any of us know what we're talking about

Ms. Sefton's encouragement is a tonic for this parched writer. Last week I felt down about the process and to be reminded about risks and listening to characters is just what I needed. Thank you for not talking about query letters or when to send one to an agent.

I'll be checking out your books too!

What a wonderful, encouraging post. I think we writers sometimes get our feet a little too grounded and we let the cement dry, afraid of taking a few steps over to something less familiar.

I just started something new, at least for me (my MC is a seventeen-year-old male), and I was a little freaked out about it at first. But now, I'm going with it. The worst that can happen is that I have a manuscript that won't sell, but that I 100% enjoyed writing.

Thanks, Jessica, as always. And thank you, Maggie! :)

While trying to decide why some folks stay mucked up in messy lives, my friends and I decided the 'bad known' is better than the unknown. May it never be so in our writing! Thanks for the reminder to s_t_r_e_t_c_h.

Thank you, Maggie, for sharing your writing wisdom with us.

Oh I knit with a bunch of other girls at work on Monday, during our lunch hour. I'll have to pick up this book.


”Kim Kasch’s Blogspot”

Thanks for the post! I've been at a place career wise (and writing wise) where I've been debating taking that risk. I have made that jump and now I'm feeling better about it after this post!

Writing wise, I've recently decided to also take a risk, switching from a historical to more of a historical paranormal--something I would've never considered at one point in life. As you said, it's about the characters. This new story of mine would've never materialized if I ignored the characters that were speaking to me to get it written.

Amazing, isn't it Maggie, how people tend to think that the stories we write are OUR ideas? LOL...there's nothing better than when a character hijacks a story and takes over. Best of luck with your new release.

Maggie~

Your words are a balm. I’m at a crossroad and taking that risk you talk about right now. I’m really excited about this new WIP as it’s almost finished and I will get to see what my agent thinks about it. It’s truly a story of my heart….

Keep your inspiring words coming.
I’ll be picking up your books too.

~Caroline

"...the whole point of what happens is not the trauma, but the transformation that follows. For me—it’s all about the characters. Always has been."

This sums it up for me! Thanks, Maggie.

What a great post, and just when I needed it too. I've been feeling bad that my WIP is so different from the novel I'm querying. Now I'm going to try to stop doing that. It's good (for a rough draft) and it's true to the characters and the story I want to tell. That should be what matters.

This advice seems to contradict the advice given by Nathan Bransford here-

http://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2009/06/stepping-up-your-game.html


Seems to me that right now no one can take any chances and you'd better color well within genre lines and hope and pray you just happen to land in the middle of a trend or forget it.

Clarification?

Thank you. Sounds like perfect timing as I've been wondering whether to try something different and just started in a new direction a few days ago.

Kimber An:

I'm not sure Nathan meant that you shouldn't take risks. There's no doubt that the market is tough right now and his post is right on target, all authors do need to step up their game, but if you want to really shine you need to also stand out. So while I wouldn't recommend putting a serial killer in a cozy mystery, I think that risks are what make you stand out from the pack and what make an editor stand up and get excited.

I hope this helps.

--jhf

Hey, everyone---thank you, thank you for your heartfelt comments. I'm so glad that my post touched many of you. And encouraged you. It's so hard when we start out, writing away on our projects, hoping we'll sell eventually, working hard on our craft.

That's why I think writers need to reach out and network with other writers. It's such a lonely business. There we are---working all alone, except we're not. We've got all these people inside our heads. That's why we need to get together with other writers periodically.

No one understands you like another writer. And yes----we're probably all certifiable.

Timely column, Ann.

"[F]ound myself at age 35 with no degree."

At age 35? Shit, at 51 I realized my employment possibilities were nil, and I knew the part-time work I had would be eliminated.

So I went back: first one class, then two per semester. Took almost 4 years, so I got a BS 40 years after graduating from high school.

The upside was I've been and will be employed, at least for now. At a similar age, my wife went back, got her BA and went on to get her MA, this summer. She too will be employed.

Yes, both of us were "old", empty-nesters, but I know an immigrant mexicana with 3 small daughters, who helped her husband run his business, while she accomplished the same. She's now employed.

There's no guarantees--my son's got a BS and has been unemployed for a year--but going back to get a degree is a lot less challenging than trying to live on part-time or unemployment checks.
RudyG

Wow, thanks Rudy. I love hearing about people who have done this work as well. I talked to a friend yesterday who is 45 and a retired police officer and says she is too old to go back to school. Pah! I know a woman who earned her B.A. at 70! I figure the only time I will truly feel old is when I stop striving to learn. (Or for those few minutes every morning when I creek my arthritic knees to standing! :)

This letter just plain scares me. Are other people thinking this way? Overthinking this way? I know what this person means but the thinking is just so wrong. It's inappropriate and sorry, kind of pathetic.

Writing. It is about writing.

"If you’re freaking out about getting published you’re a writer."

Bwah! Finally! A criteria I can meet with ease!

Maybe the "easy writer" is under the assumption that their query isn't getting past the front door because of the blurb about themselves rather than the blurb about their MS.

I know I've read several times that agents are looking for the personality of the writer in their query.

They probably don't realize that just being the best person in the world isn't going to get them rep'd. It's about the writing.

At least that was my impression on what they were trying to say. Maybe? I'm thinking the focus is just off.

Great post! Thanks.

I think it boils down to show and tell, just like writing does. Don't tell the agent you are easy to work with, show them by querying according to common standards and the agent's preferences. Showing that you are easy = acting like a professional.

Write what you think is right. Walk into a bookstore and look at all of the books in one long, sweeping glance. Take it all in. For each book, several people thought it was right, that's why it is on the shelf.

Do you want to read every book in the store cover to cover? No? Then you should understand the subjectivity in the publishing world.

WORD VERIFICATION: outriess. To riess more than the next person.

Is this a real letter? It sounds like begging to me...and I don't think writers (or anyone) should beg, esp if they're proud of their work.

Anonymous at 8:12 am, I think that’s a little harsh. When I first learned about agents, I had no idea what went into a query letter, and I’m sure I asked a lot of questions that were much stranger than this. People just want to make sure they are giving the best impression possible, and while they may not always go about it the right way, that doesn’t make it inappropriate or pathetic.

To the easy writer, Jessica gave you lots of good advice. While publishing is a “group sport” and willingness to work with others in a professional manner is essential, a query letter is more about the book you’ve written than it is about you. As Rick Daley said, if you query according to the agent’s guidelines and are respectful in your correspondence with him or her, you are more than halfway there. The only thing you need to tell an agent about you in the query is whether you have any professional publication credits – and if you don’t, you can pretty much leave the bio section out altogether.

Sounds like a newbie. We were all there once, so a little patience and compassion is in order.

Here's the way I've boiled down all the query-writing advice-

The only thing that matters at the query stage is the story itself, unless you have real writing credits. If you don't have real writing credits, you simply don't mention it. By real, I mean you got paid for it.

Tap 'query' into the search feature at the top of this blog and all the other agent blogs and learn all you can. Then, put a LOT of hard work and time into perfecting the query, which, remember, is all about the story. "I can't write a query" is no excuse. None of us could starting out. The fact is *YOU CAN LEARN.*

If you're worried about an agent liking you, simply make sure you're on-line presence is both honest and polite in case you get Googled.

Otherwise, I've really not seen where it matters what you're like until an agent is seriously considering offering representation. That doesn't happen until after they've read and fallen in love with a Requested Full of your story. Unless you're Stephanie Meyers, it can take a few years of learning and trying before you reach that point.

I think the writer is using "easy" in place of "professional," and I understand where she's coming from.

She wants agents to know that she's flexible,willing to learn, and hardworking. Some of that can be conveyed in a well-crafted query--tone goes a long way.But it's only after she lands an agent that she'll have to prove those things.

Her questions aren't necessarily "pathetic" and I don't think she's begging. She's just getting ahead of herself--something I suspect many of us are guilty of.

I wonder if the writer is nervous about the biography section of the query. He has a day job and has spent his evenings writing a novel, and he's ready to start querying. Maybe it's a great novel and maybe it's a typical first novel. He does his research and does everything right in the query until he gets to the biography section. He doesn't have an MFA, he hasn't had short stories published in the New Yorker, and he doesn't know any industry insiders. Basically, he has no platform, but he wants to put something down. What do you put then without sounding like a nobody or a newbie who doesn't have a clue?

If an agent sees basically the same query from two different writers, and the only difference in the queries is that one has no publishing credits and the other has already established some sort of credentials, will the agent pass on the first and request on the second?

To the writer of this letter:

I know just how you feel. Many moons ago (hmmm...two years...so that's what, 24 moons?) I wrote to Miss Snark with sort of similar questions about a conference I was about to attend and an agent I was meeting wit there. Like you, I wanted the agent to know I'd be easy to work with, and that I was ready and willing to take advice. I had the advantage(?) of meeting the agent in person, but that also meant I couldn't carefully craft the words I would use in advance.

If you follow the link, you'll see that what Miss Snark said is that it's more about not coming across as a freak than it is about coming across ready, willing and able. As Jessica says, not being "easy" is just not an option. Since agents will assume you are "easy", you don't have to tell them. What you have to do is show how good a writer you are and not come across as "difficult" (or any of those people Miss Snark told me not to be).

By the way, I didn't mess up my chances with the agent at the conference. She didn't want the work I pitched to her there, but when I queried her with my next work, she took me on.

Jessica, I think your comment on publishing being a team effort is key. The only thing we have any control over is the initial writing.

So easy writer, relax. Concentrate on producing the best book possible. That's your part of the publishing equation, and it isn't about how nice you are, how old you are, what you look like, how you dress, so long as you present yourself in a professional manner and your story has a fabulous hook, you're golden.

This letter was a plea for guidance through their insecurity. Naïve, probably. Immature, most likely. Touching, absolutely.

When the ripples subside, though, what is left is the knowledge of who they asked—someone they trusted.



Confucius says, "Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous."

Great post. Anything else I say will be superfluous.

So do I qualify? I'm trying to freak out quietly so as not to disturb the family.

"I have a day job so I'm not starving and freaking out trying to get published."

I certainly don't think you need to be starving (I had a very supportive husband watching my back before I sold) but if you're eye isn't glued to the idea of writing well enough to get published, then you don't really want to be published. It can't just be an impossible dream, something you "might do some day." If you really want publication, you'd damned well better REALLY WANT PUBLICATION. This is not a career you step into in a half-assed fashion. I truly believe it's an all or nothing way of life.

Considering all the recent press about queryfail and the ensuing fracas, not to mention all the "don't do this" advice on various agents' and editors' blogs, I can understand how a writer trying to break into the industry would worry. There are a million ways a writer can reveal him- or herself to be undesirable to work with. The trick, I think, isn't to prove that you *are* ready, willing, and able. The trick is *not* to prove that you're a pain in the butt. And the key to that is educating yourself on what agents are (and are not) looking for. Most PIB writers probably don't realize they come across that way, simply because they don't know that it's inappropriate to call agents, send 300,000 word manuscripts that haven't been requested, etc. Educate yourself, and you'll have more control over how you come across. Oh, and also, if you're as laid-back and easygoing as you say, then apply some of that to the long, slow query/publishing process. You'll need it!

Be confident and trust yourself.

Sounds VERY exciting and informative!!!
Will definitely be there, and thanks for setting this up!!
:-)

Time off is good! :O) Don't think I've been to Jasper, but I loved Banff.
Nice pics, thanks for sharing!

Yes! I think we all need a reminder that we can take a few days and not draw and think about our careers. Especially the summer time we need to enjoy time with friends and family. Good for you!

But seriously, a writer retiring at age 62? Just as the career is hitting a high point? From my perspective as a writer, this is just about unimaginable.

Unless, of course, I'm suddenly diagnosed with an incurable disease at age 62 and told I have just months to live. In which case, it's quite possible that I'd write faster than I ever had before, just to get one more story out there.

It takes so long to become proficient at this craft, and a writer has to work so hard and suffer so much rejection, that anyone who persists to the point of a)getting published, and b)making a comfortable living at it, is hardly likely to quit simply because it's time to collect Social Security.

One of the great joys of this work is the knowledge that we can do very good work-- perhaps our best ever-- as we hit the years when people in other professions are slowing down. The craft is solid, the rejection is substantially less, the way has been paved by previous successes, and what is left is the delight of honing an already sharp instrument, and the joy of telling a rattling good story. Too much fun to give up!

And even when it's not so fun (of course every book has its grindingly difficult patches, and the usual hide-the-knives angst), still if one is a writer, one writes. It's a necessity right up there with food and drink, and doesn't go away-- at least for me.

But perhaps from your perspective it's different. Do agents frequently see writers falling off in energy and/or skill at a certain age? Or giving up somehow?

Oh, gosh, I hear about the baby-face. I'm cursed with a baby face and a baby voice. Just last week, a father called me to teach his little one lessons, and within seconds he got really aggressive, attacking everything I said. A few seconds later, he burst out with, "Well, how old are you?" Not even a question. It was more a statement of who the **** are you to say anything? I'm pretty sure he asked me if I was teenager.

Ageism exists everywhere. I just think there should've been age where I looked my age AND didn't have gray hair yet.

Interesting that it came up in a book about freelancing. As a freelancer, I don't even see how it comes up and so much about freelancing--at least getting gigs--depends on having a body of reliable work to build on, that age is practically a requirement.

On the other hand, from all accounts, breaking into TV writing is a young person's game. I more or less said so to my brother, whose 17-year-old son wants to be a writer. I told him the how-to of breaking into TV writing was fairly straightforward (doesn't mean it's easy, just straightforward): write a spec script or two, get an agent, get lucky. However, I also pointed out that at the age of 44 I wouldn't bother unless I was totally, totally passionate about it because there's such a bias in TV Land about youth.

Seems to me there's a fair number of good examples of novelists who don't even get started until their 40s, 50s or even 60s--Michener comes to mind--that this probably doesn't really apply to novels.

But to be safe, why mention your age at all?

I just lie. It's no one's business how old you are. And as long as I can lie and get away with it I will.

I signed my first NY contract at 55 and I've never lied about my age. I honestly don't think it's hurt me, but it has given me some good laughs. My favorite was at a very nice lunch in NY when an executive from a large book chain looked over his wine glass at me and said, "You don't LOOK like you write those books!" "No," I said. "I look like a 56 year old grandmother of four." (Which I was at the time.) It's not age so much as imagination and ability. Some of us have it at nineteen, others take a bit longer to mature. (But did it have to take me THIS long? :-) I'm sure ageism exists in the publishing world--it's everywhere else, so why not. I merely refuse to let it bother me, and to be honest, I enjoy my age and the confidence it's given me.

I am old; I recognize it but I don't realize it. I wonder if a person ever really ceases to feel young--I mean, for a whole day at a time.

- Mark Twain, Letter to Mr. and Mrs. William Gordon, 1/24/1906

Thanks for raising the question, Jessica. I don't know the answer but it IS a -- well, let's just say a concern.

I'm with LJ on the "retire at 62" issue. OTOH, when I first read that sentence in the post, I was thinking in terms of retiring from my day job, not from writing. Whenever I do retire from the day job, I like to imagine cracking my knuckles and hunching over the keyboard to get some real work done, y'know?

This is related to another question I have: what if you had one book published years ago -- long enough ago that it's not only out of print, but pretty much off the radar (and online resources for tracking book sales). Is that worth mentioning in queries?

You ask if, all things being equal, would I choose an agent who is 25, 45, or 60?

In the writer/agent relationship there is so much more than age. Can things really be equal?

Is the 60 year old just starting as an agent and so has little experience or publishing relationships? Has the 25 year old worked in NY, doing summer interns for Harper Collins since she was 16? Is the 45 year old getting burned out working 80 hours a week and still trying to make it to all her kids' sporting venues?

Finding the right agent involves some things that might be attached to age (experience, motivation, track record, reputation, enthusiasm, energy, the possibility that the agent may be looking at retirement soon) but might not be (I know 85 year olds who travel the world and 25 year olds who can barely get out of bed).

It's the personality as much as anything, the chemistry between the writer and the agent that matter just as much as those other things.

When a stock broker friend had an elderly client who wanted long-term investments, he told her, "Lady, you shouldn't even be buying green bananas!" But he sold her the stocks anyway, and made himself a tidy commission. And she lived long enough to see the profits and use them.

Interesting discussion. Believe me, I curse how old I am everyday. In YA right now you would not believe how many people who are teens and early twenties getting book contracts.

Honestly, at 32 there are definitely times I feel as if my ship has already sailed for my genre.

I can only hope I look younger than I am. ;o)

Thanks for the insight, Jessica. I had a very good laugh and the same time as some serious thoughts.

Why? I've been told repeatedly by members of a writers' group that my writing and understanding of life will grow as I "mature." Came to find out that several of these well-intentioned folks thought I was 10-15 younger thn my actual age. (It gave almost as good a feeling as when I get carded.)

Does ageism exist? Yup, especially in YA.

Should it be relevant in this profession? No, because creativity is not ageist.

What is old anyway? Every single one of my grandparents "retired" only to pick up a new career because they were bored! A majority of of both the grandparents and the great-grandparents live into their nineties with their mental abilities intact. I've got PLENTY of time to build a career in publishing.

Thank you for responding to my concerns. The book in question dealt with a lot of freelancers' concerns (focusing on magazine writing), but there was also a lot dealing with book publishing.

It's funny. I had gotten over the usual worries unpublished writers have -- manuscript formatting, including SASEs, how to find an agent -- but worrying about my age blindsided me, I guess because I've been working for so long at it. Maybe I'm feeling my age.

I was feeling pretty depressed until I read Kate Douglas' comment.

I will never tell anyone my age (I’m really old, but don’t look it). Not that I'm ashamed of the number. Quite the contrary. But if people knew, they'd say things like, "How's your pacemaker doing?"

Your age alters the way people think of you. All I can say is, if you're old, try not to become hypnotized by the number.

It’s real. It hurts. I made the mistake of meeting my dream agent face-to-face at a conference. Her shock and disappointment were obvious. Despite all her previous interest and encouragement, a few days later I received a generic “not right for us” letter.

I read that Writers digest article and shuddered. Not much hope for me, eh? Grin. But I still persist.
It's hard for we writers who are still struggling to get a foot in the door while looking at retirement looming ahead. We suffer ageism on many levels.

I tell myself that life experience counts in writing. Maybe it does, or maybe it locks you into a past lifestyle that is passe. I think the key is to stay engaged in life, be active, keep on experiencing.

I can see both sides of the story, the agent/editor wanting to help build the author's career, looking for longevity of career. But life happens. I'm sure there are many aspiring youthful authors who get sucked into life's vortex and write one book. Or never finish their first manuscript until their kids end up in college. An agent/editor could take on someone who is forty and they put out a couple of books and find they have nothing left to give. Or the one book wonder. Or the extremely slow writer who puts out a book every three years.

Its all about how much passion you have about writing, how determined you are, how tenacious and how much imagination and creativity you can tap into. Writing isn't just for the young. It's something you can keep doing until your eyes give out and your fingers stiffen up with arthritis. Hell, then you could hire someone else to type and just dictate.

The book should be all that counts. Not how you look, how old you are, who you you know in the business. I don't care if a book is written by someone fifteen or fifty-five, if it's a good yarn it's good.

So often I would hear people exclaim about what a baby I was or how young I looked or ask outright my age. I knew this put me at a disadvantage.

I'm in the same boat appearance-wise, and this is exactly why I don't plan to reveal my age in my cover letter. (I never really did in the first place, because, as you said, I wouldn't put it in any cover letter for a job application, as it's not relevant.) The writing should be what sells, not how long it might be until I kick the bucket.

In the "good old days," when someone at a dinner party brought up a novel they were reading, everyone jumped into the fray, talking enthusiastically about that and other books they were reading. Sadly, that hasn't happened, at least for me, in a very long time.

With publishers (and some agents) focusing on celebrity memoirs, gossipy tell-alls and putting marketing budgets behind writers deemed worthy by virtue of their youthful good looks, willingness to disrobe for the cover while eschewing books written by writers above a certain age, is it any wonder publishing is in trouble?

I have a good friend who writes and produces plays and runs an acting studio - he's in his 70's. He's retired from the "day job" (teaching), but he's still going strong in the career he loves best.

If I were able to make a living writing, I'd hardly consider retiring at 62 - because it's not really "work" when it's something you love.

I'll just use pictures of my youngest daughter, who's 24. She looks exactly as I did at her age. Ha! 8^)

I can't imagine anyone retiring at age 62, but I suppose it happens. What would you do with yourself? I'd be bored silly. I'll be writing until my fingers stop working, and even then I might start using voice recognition software.

Anyway, the concept of age is changing. 40 is the new 30, 50 is the new 40, etc. etc.

Just remember, Charles Darwin was 50 when he wrote the Origin of Species.

When you said something about a 19-year-old I had a moment of panic. I never thought about my age being an issue, but I understand that some people will see it as one. Being 19 can help me and it can hurt me. I haven't "seen the world", but I know how teenagers think, talk, and interact. Writing a book at my age is hard work, it is at any age, but I'm at the point where there are a thousand things I want to do with my time, and yet, I put those things aside to write.

I love telling people my age because they say I look ten to fifteen years younger.

I certainly hope I don't have to face ageism in my quest for a good writing career. Maybe we have nothing to worry about anyway since fifty is the new forty.

Karen, you beat me to it. I thought I was being clever. Okay, we're both clever...

I pretty much decided I wanted to be a writer straight out of high school. I enrolled in a college writing course that was mostly made up of mature-age students. I remember one day we had a guest speaker who was a published author (of only one book, mind you, but he was so up himself you would have thought he'd written 10 best sellers) who had the very set opinion that anyone under 30 couldn't write anything WORTH publishing becuase they didn't have enough life experience. Needless to say since I was only 20 it pissed me off and I was detirmined to prove him wrong and get my work published.
Well, today I'm a lot closer to 30 than 20, but I've still got a bit of time up my sleeve!
In saying all of that, I've seen personally in many different aspects how people have been totally ageist against me becuase I'm so young... or was!
In terms of an agent's age, this wouldn't bother me. I'm more interested in who she's represented, which houses she works with, what she can do to get my work out there. If she's doing that at 25, then good luck to her because she'll probably be very, very successful.

ok, hide my age, don't tell anyone I have kids in their twenties, and slather anti-age cream in the crease!
Yikes! I never thought this would matter. Most writers keep writing till they're old and well, really old, don't they?
Think of the experience with older writers. We've seen a lot, dealt with all kinds of peeps and probably forgot more then those younger have even seen.

OooooOooo, one more thing...
How could a writer stop writing no matter what age they reach? The stories don't stop flowing just because of a number.
I rejoice in my age! Each new year is an adventure.

I choose an agent on how many deals they've got under their belt and what kind of authors are in their stable. I don't care how old or young they are.

The big question I have is: How does anyone know your age? I guess if you go to a conference, and they see you in person, they can guess. Or if you're already published with some success--there would be publicity photos and interviews where your age would be at least estimated.

But for me, I finished my first novel ms at age 30, sent it out to agents, got some partials and one full request, but never sold it--nor did my age ever come into play (never asked, never told).

Now I'm 40 and currently shopping a 3rd ms (never sent #2 out), getting considerably more action on this one--but once again--age has never come into play--never asked, never told.

So, for me, anyway, I can't see how age is a factor whatsoever when I've never been asked how old I am, nor volunteered the info. All professional discussions I've had this far have centered exclusively on the work itself, nothing else.

Growing old is always better than the alternative. It saddens me that anyone would judge a person by something as arbitrary as the number of years they've lived. How very shallow.

If a person should feel my age is somehow an impediment to my career, I don't want to work with said person anyway.

And, as many have pointed out, why would I want to "retire" from writing at any age?

Now it's become the norm to put photos of authors on the back inside covers of many books, it's not easy to hide your age - unless you use a gorgeous stand in! I always wondered why we need a photo. The book is all that matters.

"It’s real. It hurts. I made the mistake of meeting my dream agent face-to-face at a conference. Her shock and disappointment were obvious. Despite all her previous interest and encouragement, a few days later I received a generic “not right for us” letter."

This is a little scary. I'm planning on going to the Surrey conference and now I wonder if that is wise. Of course, I really had no expectations of interesting an agent there, but it worries me now.

Ah, well. I can't change my age. I have to live with it and make sure my work is compelling enough.

I'm in my fifties and getting ready to start taking sword fighting lessons. I guess someone forgot to tell me to act my age. Or, maybe I'm going through my second childhood.

"Anonymous said...
In the "good old days," when someone at a dinner party brought up a novel they were reading, everyone jumped into the fray, talking enthusiastically about that and other books they were reading. Sadly, that hasn't happened, at least for me, in a very long time.

With publishers (and some agents) focusing on celebrity memoirs, gossipy tell-alls and putting marketing budgets behind writers deemed worthy by virtue of their youthful good looks, willingness to disrobe for the cover while eschewing books written by writers above a certain age, is it any wonder publishing is in trouble?"

I couldn't agree more with you. And that's why, this year, I started my own little experiment. I'm only reading fiction that I decide is right for me, and I'm going after it. I've been seeing so many self-published writers for so many years pushing their books, I decided it was time I started to choose my own reading material, suited to my own tastes, and not the tastes of an agent or editor. And so far, twenty self-published novels into the experiment, I'm pleased with most. But more than that, I'm seriously confused as to why these writers have not been published and why they don't have agents.

I have worked as an editor and writer in the publishing industry for a long time, and I've never self-published anything of my own. I'm looking at the self-published material I read strictly as entertainment. So for anyone who IS interested in reading fiction and not being disappointed completely each time you spend money, start going after your own books (you can start by clicking on the names of commentors on blogs) instead of trusting the subjective tastes of so-called publishing professionals. You will be very surprised at the good material out there that has been ignored.

It's also empowering to know that we have choices now, and that we are not at the mercy of what a handful of people think we should be reading. There are some really good books out there you don't want to miss.

It's hard for me to imagine my world without having read, then listened to, Angela's Ashes. I guess Frank McCourt didn't get the memo about being too old.

Then, again, Mary Higgins Clark is how old?

What the younger than I am folks should keep in mind
is when you get to be my age, you won't think you are old at all ... but the younger than you are, will.

How you treat us now, will come back to you then.

Be smart!

Thanks for raising an important issue. If age discrimination were really a bad thing, it would not be so popular everywhere in the business world. We get so hung up on quality and performance we forget age is really the important thing. Age discrimination needs to be rehabilitated. We need to recognize age for the outstanding screening tool that it is. Age. Focus on it. Use it.

If I were an agent I would not sign anyone younger than 50.

Sorry, kids. Maybe when you’re older.

Congratulations Crystal!! That is amazing news! :o)

Congratulations!!! I'm so excited for you! I hope you start to feel better soon - 2nd trimester should bring you renewed energy and overall good health. Hooray!

Huge congrats!!! Best wishes to you and the little one :)

Aww congratulations!! That is fantastic! (And yay for more art inspiration from babies and future babies :)

Aw Crystal, Congrats! That's big news! I honestly can't think of too many friends who AREN'T expecting right now, so you fit right in. =)

WOW! Super Fantastic!!

I am so happy for you and Greg! You will be a fantastic mother I already know. May God bless you (both) with health and strength during this amazing period of your lives!

-Mike

Congratulations!- Get plenty of sleep now - sleep is never the same again but it's all worth it!- feel good!

Congratulations! What wonderful news! :)

Congratulations Crystal!!
That beats any publication news by far :)

WOW!! What wonderful news!!! Congratulations!!

Congratulations!!!! this journey will be the greatest experience of your lives...enjoy!!!

I hope we have another baby soon...our son is the greatest gift ...

Hugs
Diana

hat a wonderful night. Thank you everyone for your kindness.

appy news! I was invited to be a panelist at the South by Southwest Interactive conference next month, as part of their ScreenBurn track. I’m on a panel called “Funologists live and in person: Guerilla Game Research.”

I’ll share my experience starting some low-budget user research cycles for Second Life, and my work translating those frustrating observations into shippable engineering requirements.

There will be pretty pictures, and possibly cake.

The cake is a lie, but you should stop by anyway. There could be cake.

There certainly won’t be cake and not cake. Not at the same time, I can assure you.

That's such great advice, thank you. I'm constantly reassessing the business of my writing both in terms of finances and in terms of passion about the project. We so often forget that success is often backed up by years of hard work. And you have to grow and change during that, or you get stagnant.

I just wanted to say thank you for your posts. I only recently found the wealth of blogs from agents and other publishing professionals and, after a couple months, have begun pulling away from them because their outlooks make me feel walls surrounding my writing that I truly believe shouldn't (or don't really) exist. For example, the negative opinion about writing in more than one genre leaves me stifled. This is a case where the business side overwhelms the creative side too much. Your post today about the willingness to change and evolve during a writer's/business's growth is very helpful. And I truly believe that regardless of which genre I write in, if the book is good and marketable, I will be able to move forward telling the stories that I am inspired to tell.

My husband and I decided on "The Five Year Plan" and I set a goal to be NY published (or well on the way) by a certain time.
Interestingly, an epublishing career began and I've managed to make a few sheckles with my writing. However, I keep my eyes on the prize.
This past year, I did more submitting than previous years. My plan for the next year is to keep at it.

Anonymous 8:37 made one of the points I was about to - that sometimes change is good, and it is great to read that there is an agent out there who thinks the same thing. (Though I will admit the five year plan had me freaking out a little bit when I read the title, I calmed down as I started breathing again and kept reading.)

As for following the market, I think you are right that people shouldn't write something "just because" it is what the market wants. On the other hand, just because you want to write something doesn't mean you are following the trend - it might just mean you want to write it. Otherwise, after yesterday's post, we would have all started on our 'commercial women's fiction' pieces.

Thanks again for presenting such a useful and positive blog.

Great post.

I'm in my 5th year of writing full time, so I would add two observations.

1. Writing careers evolve. When I started writing, it was all about novels. I signed a contract for my 4th novel last week. But I make my living writing magazine articles and market research reports and editing a technical journal, among other things. Who knew? I'm currently interested in adding ghostwriting and collaborations and nonfiction books to the mix.

2. Writing careers fluctuate. Some years are better than others. Clients come and go. Types of work comes and goes. Rolling with the punches is a way to keep your business alive and still stay sane.

Ummmmm, I think you forgot to mention the other reason 2004 was so momentous....

Jessica, Kim's post cracked me up! I love the idea of agents evolving, too. As a writer, I enjoy the natural creative evolution that occurs (how Darwinian!). The novel I've finished and am currently seeking representation for is, as you may recall, women's fiction/humor. My next endeavor is a series called, "The Doctor's Wives Murders" based on two characters from my finished novel. I love mysteries and true crime, so it will be fun delving into this arena. As a writer, you have to write what you love and what gets you jumping out of bed in the morning to write.

I agree that writers shouldn't chase the market. But it seems these days that's exactly what agents and editors do--follow trends, buy what's "hot."

They seem too easily influenced by current fads to make the easy sale (*paranormal, YA, erotic romance). Seems they think too short-term and not long-term, waiting until the economy improves and the market rebounds.

So what's a writer to do when our novel doesn't fit in these categories?

As someone who's been working on a novel nearly five years your advice is timely and well put.

Fabulous advice, thank you.

My five years have come and gone. It doesn't bother me though, because with no publishing contract this is my time to explore and grow. Looking back to 2004, I see amazing progress, can't beat that.

Excellent advice. I'll try to think in five-year-plan terms more often!

I remember reading something like this when I was in high school; my teacher was (and still is) one of my sounding boards, and he gave me an article that said to write what you love, and then sell it like no tomorrow. Chasing the market only ends up in heartache.

Interesting look from the business perspective of publishing--thanks for posting.

Great advice. For me it's been five years, and a lot of growth has happened, so I can say that I'm happy where I'm at. Here's hoping to five more great years of productive growth for all of us.

Good advice Marissa! When I started my book I had no intentions of publishing. It was just a story that needed to come out. As it reveals itself, I learn. So, either it's meant to be published or it's meant to teach me something. Either way I am happy.

Great post, Jessica! My two cents: five years is quick! Many writers take longer than that to break out. I've been writing novels for 11 years -- four of them so far -- and am on agent #3. I'm optimistic that the third time's the charm. What's kept me going all this time is positive feedback from agents and editors, and a passion for writing. If novel #4 doesn't sell I'll just concentrate on novel #5. I guess the moral of my story is: if you are growing as a writer and love doing it, don't give up!

You've just given me a fantastic lift.

I knew writing was going to be a long haul, but I'd forgotten that my other way to pay the bills was going to be equally hard.

Right article at the right time.

This is really good advice, thank you for it. I'm 2 and a half years into my five year plan and I am happy with how things are progressing. I'm just learning to roll with the punches :)

As an entrepreneur and a writer, I just want to say how much I enjoyed that post. My company is three years old and while we're financially successful, we too go through internal changes continually. Letting your company grow in this flexible, organic fashion is such a joy. Thanks for the topic.

I must beg to differ. Any "writer" who has not sold anything in fiev years is a crank. Forget five years, they should quit after five rejections. If they keep writing after that they need to have their fingers broken.