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I loved Pushing the Limits too. It was fabulous! My only other recommendation is For Darkness Shows the Stars by Peterfreund was so, so good. LOVED it.

I'd still recommend Sam Cruz's Infallible Guide to Getting Girls. I got my copy at NetGalley. Also, Dante's Girl by Courtney Cole was a super cute read.

Jess, I have Sam Cruz' Infallible Guide to Getting Girls. I will be reading that one soon. It sounds adorable! Haven't heard of Dante's Girl. Will have to look that one up.

Sarah, I LOVED For Darkness Shows the Stars. Persuasion updated for the time. I'm having such a great time reading lately, that I just can't seem to stop! I hope I kinda go over my 100 book goal this year. I fell short last year.

I'm sorry to hear about the problems with your dog. What a drag. I'm glad he's OK now.
I'd recommend Drowned by Therese Bohman for a good creepy suspenseful read!

This is absolutely brilliant. And it’s also not surprising, due to the arguably obvious influence of BDSM/fetishism on super-hero comics. I’m also glad to see no one from Shuster’s estate or family is refuting this is indeed his work, as one might expect from stories like this. Great find!

I always think that people will either assume that I have experienced them or that I fanatasize about them. In fact, my mother doesn't want to read my book because of the sex scenes!
:-/

Honestly, the sex scenes that I have written in my book are appropriate to the characters. There are two male characters whose lives revolve around sex. Of course I want them to be believable, so there are some pretty hot scenes involving the two of them and my female main character.

I haven't done many of the things my characters do! They are different people in a different world. After all, my life would be entirely too boring to hold a reader's attention.

I have to say, if I had readers who nudged me knowingly, I would most likely assume they tried the scenes I wrote and I would have to nudge them back.

I tend to think like a man might. If people are assuming I am experiencing the sex scenes in my work, than by all means, give me props. Or better yet, it gives my husband props. He might be even more appreciative of the thought than I would. Wink-wink-nudge-nudge.

But heck no, I would not pseudonym for that. It might be a chance to embarrass my mother-in-law as well.

I already use a pseudonym in the Blogosphere for personal reasons. One of my mentors said I should use it published too, because people have gotten to know me as moderator of the Enduring Romance book review site. So, the Pen Name issue is taken care of for me.

Here's what I've learned about how readers feel about sex in books-

1) They're smart and they can tell if you feel comfortable writing it, and they think it comes off lame or ridiculous. Lesson: Don't write more graphic than your comfort level.

2) They're smart and they can tell if you only added the sex scenes to sell the book. Again, lame and ridiculous. Same lesson: Don't write more graphic than your comfort level.

I'm not sure how other writers feel, but when I write at my comfort level I'm not self-conscious about it at all. The pseudonym for this reason would be a non-issue.

I publish under a half a dozen pseudonyms, but that's more for marketing purposes than because anything I publish makes me squirm.

The people whose opinions of me as a person matter to me tend to be intelligent enough to discern between the fact that I write fiction and the fact that I have an actual life separate from that fiction.

As for those who make ridiculous assumptions, I always ask myself, "who is this person in the fabric of my life and do I really care?" Most of the time, the answer is no, so I nod or shrug or smile or laugh at them and move on.

My energy is better spent in my work or in living my life and enjoying it. I don't owe anyone explanations or delineations between work and life. Peer pressure wasn't a factor when I was in school; if people still act like we're in school, why would it affect me now?

I don't write under a pseudonym, because I'm quite proud of what I write and I don't have any extraneous reason to do so. I have friends who live in the Bible Belt, and whose life would be Mud if they didn't, friends with small children who help out in the kindergarten, but I have none of these things.
I research my sex scenes just as I'd research any other aspect of my books. I've never taken part in a menage, but with a bit of help from my daughter's old Barbie dolls and some research into what people do it for, why and what they get out of it, I've managed okay.
The old way is to say that I also write about murders, but I've never killed anyone either, but that's getting a bit sad.

I write YA, but it's not particularly graphic. However, my MC is having a lot of comical romantic experiences. People in my critique group are wondering if it's all autobiographical. Of course, it isn't - some things are based on real scenarios but I twisted them for fictional purposes and completely made up much of it. Honestly, the absolute truth would be harder to believe than the fictional accounts! I have to say, though, that I was very taken aback the first time someone asked me if it was autobiographical. I'm kind of used to the fact now that they might suspect some of it's true or based on reality, and it doesn't bother me anymore. So if it ever gets published, I don't think I will use a pseudonym. I'll just refer my parents to the disclaimer in the beginning: "Any semblance to real people blah blah blah is entirely coincidental."

I just smile. If people assume I write from personal experience, then evidently I did my job in making the characters' interaction believable.

Of course, if the one doing the nudge-nudge-wink-wink is unpleasant about it, I just extend the comparison to suspense writers and serial killers. It helps that the suspense comparison also applies to my books. =)

No matter what you write some people are always going to assume it refers to you somehow (experiences, desires, wishes…) and although that might be true sometimes, it mostly isn’t. I’ve never so far changed anything in a story for that reason. In fact I’ve only deleted one scene for a similar reason (and only because deleting it didn’t ruin the story).

It was high school. A teacher had asked to read a FIRST-PERSON short story of mine. I chose to delete a rape scene of the protagonist, to avoid any assumptions, in case the teacher was one of “those” people. But I chose to leave an explicit sex scene in the end anyway a. thinking that a mobster was excused to have such a sex experience, b. because the scene was crucial to the story.

When I don’t try to avoid such assumption-based behavior from others, I try to deal with it with humor.

Once, when my mom asked what the story I was writing was about I told her:

“Well, I’ll tell you, but don’t tell dad cause the story is about a girl having her father killed.”

Insert the equivalent of nudge-wink-wink.

“But it’s only alleged that she did it…besides they weren’t close.”

“Why would you want to hurt your father?”

“Mom, it’s just a story, besides if I really wanted to harm anyone, it would be you. Dad doesn’t bother me at all.”

I don't worry about it, mainly because I don't write graphic sex scenes. I tend to employ the whole "fade to black" technique, but it's mainly because what I write doesn't have sex as a main part of the storyline and it would just be gratuitous.

Also, it makes me uncomfortable writing it, but that's just me :P

I tend to think that people use psuedos less for a feeling of discomfort than just to keep that portion of their writing more detached from their personal life.

For me, the erotic novels are something I very much enjoy writing. I'd love to know that anyone who read them enjoyed them and any knowing smiles would be most welcome.

On the flip side of that - I work at a preschool, am a member of the school board, am a den leader for both girl and boy scouts.

I wouldn't want my more 'flavorful' writing to cause discomfort for me or any of the parents I have relationships with and so I choose to keep that area of my writing behind closed doors.

JMO

I like what Kathleen said! Stephen King writes about murder but he doesn't murder people.

However, writing a good sex scene may be somewhat cathartic! ;-)

Everyone I know of who's read my erotica and other fiction is able to draw a distinction between author and narrator. That said, my husband and some of his friends do like to wink a little at some of the things I've written. It doesn't embarrass me. I never considered that someone wouldn't separate me from the narrator.

My reaction to the question is honestly: who cares? So what if someone associates you with your author? It means you're writing with veracity. Isn't that a measure of success?

I dabbled in writing romances. Only to discover sex scenes required more than tab A into slot B.

I think one should write what they know. Now I write murder mysteries. Perhaps I’ve said too much.

Confucius says; wise man never plays leapfrog with unicorn.

No matter what you write some people are always going to assume it refers to you somehow (experiences, desires, wishes…) and although that might be true sometimes, it mostly isn’t.

This brought back memories. When I was a teenager, I wrote short stories. One of them my mother happened to see while it was still in progress. In it, one of the characters said something about being pregnant. First question from my mother was if I was pregnant. When I told her it was just something in the story, I don't think she entirely believed that. At the time, it wasn't exactly like I had just decided to write one story--I'd been writing them for years!

I've never assumed that writers draw from their own experiences for sex scenes. Rather I think they have a fantastic imagination and a gift for describing a relatively "messy" interaction in a way that makes their readers hot. I was a little nervous when my friends read the first draft of my novel (several sex scenes included) - but I'm not going to publish under another name. I'm proud of my characters and their creativity in the bedroom!

Most people I know use a pseudonym for one of two different reasons, 1) a 'difficult' last name (my reason) or 2) they want to separate their identity - there's a woman in my local RWA chapter who writes erotic and inspirational.

There is truth in the statement "Write about what you know." In my critique group it is painfully obvious when someone writes a sex scene which misses or goes terribly wrong that they don't have much experience with or knowledge of sex. One otherwise talented writer in my group wrote (I'm paraphasing) "Three hairs sprouted from her nipple like palm trees on a tropical island". I wanted to hurl, but that was not the reaction the author was trying to achieve.

Knowing one's subject doesn't mean one has to have done everything one writes about, but the author must have enough understanding to make the leap into new territory believable, hot, or whatever the goal is.

Writing Sex is different for everyone. I actually do base a great deal on personal experience for my erotic romance, and I don't use a pen name. I did when I first started, but I got over it.

I do use a pen name for some things now, but that's usually because I'm stepping out of my genre.

I think writers use pen names because they are always thinking of the future, and if you want to hop from one genre to another, it's hard to use the same name.

Easy! Use a pseudonym! I'm a prude, and I need to use the pseudonym because I'm a teacher and because I have to protect my ability to be emotionally honest and as explicit as the writing demands. A pseudonym protects all that.

As far as readers assuming I've experienced the sex scenes? I'm okay with that. My whole "message" as a writer is pretty much summed up with "You're okay just as you are."

When writers go around saying "I don't do this act, just my character does," I think that starts to send a message of judgment on the sexual act they're denying. In fact, if someone who writes my kink goes as far as to announce on their blog that they "write about kinky stuff but don't do it," then I never read their kinky stuff again.

Sex is a tricky subject with lots of landmines personal to every reader and writer. As erotica writers, we're in a special position to give love and acceptance fulfillment to a reader's most intimate dreams and desires. That's not something to squash with a careless remark or our own personal hang-ups.

That's certainly an interesting point. I'm cautious to write certain stories that have been floating around my head because of my mother's reaction. I like the idea-- a lot, actually-- but if she ever saw it, she would assume that some parts were taken from my life.

Which they are DEFINETLY not.

I decided a few days ago that I want to write it anyway. She can read it when it's done if she wants to, but first I'm going to talk to her and explain that it's all fiction and make sure she understands it before seing page one.

On the subject of pseudonyms: no matter what I write, I'm proud of it. I don't think I'd use another name when publishing because I'm happy to let people know that I write. It's an important part of who I am as a person.

Gosh -- I hope my readers understand it's not me in those scenes. Then again, not long ago, I told someone I wrote a series about werewolves... thirty seconds later, she asked me if I wrote everything from personal experience. So maybe not.

And as for writing to your comfort level, I think at times we as writers have to stretch -- and sometimes (I speak from personal experience here), you have no choice but to stretch. It's amazing what you can do when there is no alternative. :)

ANON 10:44

I have different reasons for the pen name. I have a boring name, and I prefer my to be just plain old me to my neighbors and friends.

I use my own name, although one of the first questions people ask when I say I'm a writer is, "What name do you write under?" (Probably because they've never seen my books on the shelves at Wall Mart.) I use mine--I'm too old to start training people to remember more than one name for me.

The lady at the Post Office read one of my short stories (not erotica by any means, but sensual) and said, "Wow, I can't look at you the same way ever again."

But since my books are also mysteries, I'm like other commenters here and just say I haven't had to kill anyone to get it 'right' for my story, and let them draw their own conclusions about the sex parts. My mother wanted to know if I tried everything out, or if I just 'copied' other authors. My kids are still freaked that I know about "that stuff."

I will confess that hubby has (more than once) said, "Hmm...are we writing another chapter?"

People are going to see what they see, and assume what they will. Others will totally miss things that you wrote directly about them.

My writing teacher wrote an excellent book to great critical acclaim. He drew the MC's angst from some of his own experiences. The MC had some issues with his dad, and my teacher wrote some details from his life with his dad into the novel. Some of the details were quite extensive.

When his dad read the book on its release, he called my teacher laughing and said "that thing the dad does at the dinner table - I do that! You got that from me!" My teacher was surprised and asked "wow, is that the *only* thing you see that's like you!?!?"

People see what they want to. I have some very conservative people in my family, and I'll warn them that a book may not be to their taste, but I can't stop them from reading it.

I fully expect some family members to see certain details and assume that I'm talking about them, or assume that I've had sex with 27 men at once, or assume that I'm some sort of sexual deviant - and I just don't care. Those same people have been causing trouble my whole life, and this will not be any different.

I liked Devon's point of "who is this person in the fabric of my life, and do I really care?" Most of the time, the answer will be that I don't care at all.

I'm more concerned with strangers reading the work, if you would call it actual concern. Some folks just aren't subtle, and I've seen it before. I'm a bellydancer, and many people equate being a fully dressed, highly trained dancer with being a stripper or prostitute. I didn't spend thousands of hours in class and thousands of dollars on performance clothing for it to be assumed that I'm available after the show for $50 a pop, but a lot of people assume that is so.

There are 6 billion people in this world with different cultural backgrounds and history. Even if you edited your work, you still will not be in every single person's comfort zone. Some people have no imagination of their own, and they assume that it MUST have been you - that brain muscle for them just doesn't work, so they only have fact as a frame of reference. I pity them.

Inevitably, this will happen. People will assume that the things that you write about are you, even if it makes no sense. In the reverse, some will assume that *everything* is completely invented when it is certainly not. You can't stop it or change it. Be honest and truthful to the work, or don't write it. Writing a dishonest work is a pointless exercise, since it will be neither purchased nor appreciated.

I had to laugh when I read this post because it is so true. Now I write paranormal romance, so the sex isn't as graphic as it would be in an erotic story. Still, there is sex and it surprised me to no end when my book came out and people really did assume I was some sort of wild diva writing about my own sex life.

I mean, nobody assumed I've hunted demons, or sliced a werewolf's head open with a switch star or performed an impromptu exorcism. But the sex? It must be what Angie does all the time.

I don't know what an author can do but shrug it off and grin. And keep writing those scenes that get people talking, of course. ;)

I just say it's not me, it's my characters - because that's the truth. I write under two names and get as much flack for the tame love scenes I write under my other name as I do for the erotic scenes I write under this name.

I use a psuedonym for my highly sexual books. But it is out of respect for other people'e belief systems. There are those I have come to know well and love that would be embarrased to read that scene, escpecially if it is written by someone they know.

I do not want them purchasing a book to support me and then read what would be uncomfortable for them. If they ask me, I tell them I write sex scenes, as I am not ashamed of it. However, I also understnd others have a different belief system than I do.

It also keeps the genre seperate as I am about to be published in the sci-fi arena. I don't want to be prejudged either way.

It's funny how we all act about sex. In my perfect world, I would be much more embarrassed to be able to convey the depths of depravity that leads someone to murder than to write a compelling and adult love scene.

Yet somehow, I have a part of the dedication to my first novel (which includes both murder and sex) written:

I would like to thank my parents (who I really hope never read this book) for always believing in me, no matter what crazy schemes I cooked up.

I've gotten these questions before. I think it's a sign of lower intelligence if people can’t discern the difference between fiction and real life. The sex scenes I write are between my characters, not me.

If you're ashamed or embarrassed by the things you write, then you might want to rethink it. I decided long ago I wouldn’t use a pen name just because I wrote sex. I’m proud of my work and no one can make me feel bad about it. My two cents. :)

I recently sold my first story to SPICE Briefs under a pseudonym. The running joke between my husband and me is that I've finally sold something to a respected publisher but I can't share the news with my family, because they would be horrified to learn that I wrote a piece of erotic fiction.

Writing under a pseudonym allowed me to write vivid, imaginative, erotic scenes that I might not have been comfortable writing had the little voice in my head kept saying, "Your grandmother is going to read this!" And like others have said, the scenes were appropriate for the characters involved - not for me personally.

I have a stage name for my "musical" side and I've found it to be a somewhat schizophrenic experience. For a while, some people in my life knew me as Jamie, others as Debbie, and still others as both. It got confusing. I'm sticking with my real name for my writing endeavors. I've got a bisexual gal in my finished novel and WIP and I'm sure that makes my dear friends and family ponder (and keeps my husband hoping *wink*). Fine. Let them wonder. It makes life much more interesting!;-)

Because I write two very different genres--fantasy and erotic romance--I use two similar pen names. Anyone who read one would notice the other, as they share a first name and the last name is shortened to an initial for the erotica. It just makes potential shelving conflicts a little easier to sort out. (I also work in a bookstore, so.)

The best advice ever for writing good sex scenes is from Steve Almond.

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/out_there/documents/02844055.htm

Tamara

Sorry. The link didn't come across. Search for "Steve Almond" and "Writing Sex" and you'll find it.

Tamara

Thanks for a really interesting article and discussion. Maybe one day I'll have to think about answering the question too, and I'll be grateful for all this advice.

My first two novels had some steamy sex scenes, but they were just that - spice with a little nice. I didn't mind having my name connected to them even though many family members including my parents read them.

My latest falls in the erotic category, and after much thought I decided to keep the same pseudonym. I don't know if it will affect my future career, but that's a risk I'll take.

I write really over-the-top erotic romance and I think I've been asked every question out there, but it really takes a lot to throw me for a loop, so if the question is honestly asked I give the person a straight answer. A lot of my stories have explicit same-sex scenes or group sex scenes. I have friends who live in those relationships and are very forthcoming about confirming whether something I write is physically possible or potentially painful--or even physically dangerous. Even though what I'm writing is pure fantasy, it still has to have the ring of truth for my readers to accept it. I figure if I can make them believe that people can become wolves, it's not going to be all that difficult to get them to accept the polyamorous relationships within my stories.

And as for using a pseudonym--I do only because there is already a romance author out there published under MY name! (How DARE she?) Otherwise I would use my own name.

If you're not comfortable with the language, the descriptions or the complex physical and emotional attributes of an explicit sex scene, don't write them. Your readers will know, because you will have distanced yourself from the scene, and it shows. if you don't want to write it, they're not going to want to read it.

Currently I'm trying to break in as a YA writer and I'm using a form of my real name for that. However, some day I'm planning to hop the fence to Romance and I know I'll need to publish those under a different name than my YA so I figure, "Hey, if I have to change my name I might as well go nuts." So, I've got a fabulous pen name all picked out for the Romance, but if I do use it it won't be because I'm uncomfortable with what I've written, or because I'm worried about people *wink wink-ing* me.

My stories can be pretty dark and twisted and my mother has a tendency to worry that they are about me until proven otherwise. So when I wrote a piece of flash about a sex worker, she immediately wanted reassurance that it wasn't personal experience I was drawing on. The same thing happened when a female character wrote in the first person about being drunk and staying drunk (for weeks, forever).

I'm not sure there's a lot you can do about it other than laugh. I agree that if the reactions are coming from people who know you, a pseudonym is probably not the answer.

A very interesting observation by Kate..........

"If you're not comfortable with the language, the descriptions or the complex physical and emotional attributes of an explicit sex scene, don't write them. Your readers will know, because you will have distanced yourself from the scene, and it shows. if you don't want to write it, they're not going to want to read it."

Initially when I started writing my novel, I was nervous about my father reading it (the sex scene is pretty tame, but even so), but I've since realized, I'm more afraid of him seeing the horrible relationship my protagonist has with her father, and thinking I secretly hate him.

I've written some pretty graphic scenes in other work, and I didn't find it embarassing. Though, I'd be kind of amused if I found out people thought that I've experienced all that, especially since I'm a virgin.

As to writing from experience--I can imagine sex as well as I can murders, gunfights, ghosts, demons, and anything else. :)

Okay, I now want to start writing sex scenes that will shame me into getting a new pseudonym (grin)! I'll have to check out that Steve Almond>Writing Sex link. Thanks, Anonymous!

I write under a pen more for convenience than anything else. I debated this issue for a long time, and finally felt it was better for privacy reasons and not content that I use a pseudonym.

The sex scenes are a combination of real experiences, fantasy and what girlfriends have described to me. It a mosaic of real/fantasy and wishful thinking.

Actually, I have found writing the sex scenes to be easier than any part of the story. It just flows naturally for me.

I have no problem with explicit sex as long as it has a context in the book. If it's shoved in because someone (either author or editor) believed that a certain number of sex scenes was required, it usually shows (and you can skip right over it). At the same time, I don't think the writer has to detail each and every move.

But I can't write one without giggling.

I've never become upset by a book because it was too explicit, though I have been surprised by some scenes. I've recently started reading books that are a little more, um, racy than what I'm used to reading. I was still fine with it. I might even admit to liking it. ;-) I did, however, just finish reading a book in a series that almost took the sex too far. And it really wasn't even the sex part - it was the other person/icky creature thing the protag was considering getting into bed with. She didn't, thank God, but that was the first time I ever thought about not reading the rest of a series based upon the erotic-ishness of a scene. If the rest of the book hadn't been great, I would have ditched it.

Can't say I have. Not a fan of the rating system. with a half naked woman and man on the front cover (typically in some embrace), do we really need an "R for sexual content" slapped on the side? I know not ALL books have such showy covers, but in the information age when prices of everything are incresing, I don't see a need to pay someone to decide a universal grading system on books.

I have heard it's better to write hot when in doubt (so long as you're comfortable with it) because it's so easy for the editor to turn it down.

I'm with Sheila Connolly. As long as the explicit scenes are in context, I don't have a problem with them. I still skip over most of them, but that's my choice - I want to get back to the plot. The only time I have a problem is when they seem like they're thrown in for effect, or worse shock value.

And I'm against rating books. Usually doing a little research before you buy can keep you from spending money on books that are too racy for you.

I don't mind explicit sex, as long as it, and the relationship as a whole, make sense.

I started reading a book recently where it seemed like every man and woman spent 95% of the time thinking about banging the opposite gender. And no, this wasn't an erotic or romance novel. It was a standard sword & sorcery fantasy. When two of the main characters started kissing each other out of the blue, I hurled the book across the room and stopped reading, because it just seemed that unrealistic. I dunno, maybe I didn't reach the part of the book where the author revealed the air in his world contained traces of ecstasy and viagra.

I agree that explicit sex in romance novels doesn't bother me unless it's written just to add sex. There needs to be meaning behind it and a change in relationship/emotions because of it.
I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of erotica, but it's not because of the explicit sex. It seems in these books the focus is on sex and the plot may be limited or interrupted to keep that focus.

Suffering a Miss Manners attack of the vapors here:

I have no problem with explicit sex as long as it has a context in the book. If it's shoved in... Sorry, dears, I stopped reading right there! :)

Seriously, though... Long before I even met her, The Missus had acquired a set of those Beauty books by Anne Rice/"A. N. Roquelaure" (The Claiming of Sleeping Beauty etc.). I picked one of them up once and flipped through it. Mostly it struck me as... weird.

Emphatic NO on rating systems.

I think the only time I'd become 'upset' if a book was more explicit than expected is if it was in a children's (probably YA) book -- or a book that's clearly marketed to YA. Even then, however, I generally read fast enough that I can keep ahead of my kiddos (they're years from being teens), so hopefully I'll find out early enough to either have a nice discussion about it or hide the book away for a couple of years.

Like others around here, I don't mind explicit sex scenes if they have a place in the story. And on the other side of the debate, if a sex scene is intrinsic to the plot and the writer leaves it out because she feels uncomfortable writing it, that can harm a story just as much as having a sex scene when one doesn't need to be there.

I agree about not mentioning these scenes in the query. In a query, you want to come across as confident. If you mention these scenes as something you feel on-the-fence about, I think that makes you look less self-assured about your work.

Not upset but, like Jes, I was caught a bit off guard by Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty series...though, the fact that I read all three may be telling, ha.

No, no, no rating system, no.

Explicit content is the main reason I started the Enduring Romance book review blog. A lot of the readers I knew were annoyed with buying a book thinking they were getting one thing, only to find out it was something else. It seems to me, and them, that Romance novels have become more explicit since the boom of Erotica. Not all readers like that and for a variety of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with morality. The major problem with this is these readers leave the New Releases for books they know will not shock or gross them out, and sometimes they never come back from the used bookstore or library. Since authors earn their money by the sale of new books, this cannot be a good thing for the publishing industry. I am of the opinion that anything which reassures a reader is a good thing. I'd support a rating system for Romance novels. Anything to draw the disenchanted readers back into the fold, I say. This is why we rate novels by Heat Level at Enduring Romance.

However, I do not think Heat Level should be included in a query letter. It really is irrelevent at that stage, unless it's being pitched to an Erotica, Christian, or Young Adult publisher. Heat Level can be modified to suit the market any agent or editor feels the story is most suitable for.

P.S. We're throwing a Cyber-Launch Party to celebrate the release of SHADES OF DARK by Linnea Sinclair all day tomorrow (August 7th) at the Enduring Romance blog. Hope to see you all there!
;)

Not a fan of rating books but I have picked up, started, and put down books that are too explicit for me. Usually because the book was recommended to me or because the author previously wrote less explicit books that I enjoyed and I mistakenly thought the new release would be in the same vein.

It would be nice to have some way to tell. A "hot-meter" of sorts. But as with films, it would only shift over time. What was considered R-rated twenty or thirty years ago is now simply G.

Only one book upset me because it was explicit, but not because it was too explicit for my tastes. The book was part of a series I enjoyed and it came a a shock.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with a rating system, but I would have read this book with a different mind set if I purchased it from the erotic section.

Jenny Crusie taught me that sex scenes are action scenes. That means the emotional conflict has to increase after one of these scenes. If it doesn't, if nothing changes, it isn't needed because it isn't advancing the story.

It does annoy me to have gratuitous sex scenes in both books and movies. And you can always spot them. While there are ratings for movies, I do think rating books on sexual content would be difficult to achieve.

Erotica doesn't appeal to me so I don't buy it. A lot of my friends write it and that's fine, it's just not for me. I still think some of the most memorable books, the hottest I've ever read, focused on sexual tension and the emotional journey of both the hero and heroine, rather than sexual gymnastics.

I believe that you need to foreshadow the graphic level of your scene at some point. A linguistically graphic scene coming when nobody in the book has ever once had a sexual thought or used a word stronger than "darn" doesn't work. But if body parts are heating up at various stages through the book, we as readers are forewarned that there will be sex.
Body parts are like guns: you shouldn't take them out if you don't plan to use them at some point, but you can't just have one appear without letting us know they're there either. :-)

No, I've never been upset by something being too explicit. I just wanted to ask, do you really think that books might be someday rated?

These days I would never reject a book simply because it was racier than I expected. But when I was about 13, I ran into a book that turned out to be a pretty explicit erotic version of the King Arthur stories, which I found scandalous at the time. In cases like that, there should be SOME hint on the cover that it's an erotic story instead of a knights-adventuring story. But these days it seems boring to me to choose a book based on whether or not there's sex, and how explicit the sex is. If I'm hooked after the first chapter, the writer can take me anywhere they want.

I don't like explicit sex scenes mainly because they seem to take away from the story. I skim them to get to the good parts, the plot. But I will read them if they're written well, though it seems very, very few authors have the ability to write an engaging sex scene without it being melodramatic and over-written. It's like getting Jujubees stuck in my teeth. Gah!

As a writer of detective thrillers the issue has come up with me as well. I've deliberately toned down some sex scenes because I feared they may be too explicit. I didn't want an agent thinking I was writing pornography. But perhaps I'm being overly cautious here? I've tried to use comparable authors as a guidepost, i.e. Michael Connelly, Lee Child, Dennis Lehane, etc. Some of their passages can be extremely graphic, but mostly they seem to write sex scenes in a fairly innocuous presentation. So I'm thinking for my genre, explicit sex should be a minimum....

Perhaps it's a genre-related call. Some genres are more open to explicit sexual descriptions while others are less so.

I love to read mystery and I have run into many books with explicit, disturbing violence that has taken me by surprise. I do wish there was some sort of warning for things like that, just because I don't like to have those really awful images in my head.

I don't like explicit sex, excessive cussing, gratuitous sex or violence, or predictable plot lines. Which means I have trouble finding books of any genre to read these days. That's why I started my Genre Review blog, to rate books along those lines so that others don't have to buy a book blind.

I don't really know what I think about a book rating system on a larger scale, but my first thought is it might encourage authors to write for a particular rating instead of what is correct for the story.

As for telling agents: it sounds like her story isn't just "standard romance with an explicit sex scene" but might be categorized differently because of those scenes. If she isn't sure if a certain agent accepts romances of that type, it might be a good idea for her to say something so that no one wastes their time. I'd probably put that information at the end of the query, though, so that the agent can get a feel for what the story is about before that.

Just my 2 cents.

This is a great subject. As a reader, I don't require a rating system. I have only once been offended by a book and felt there should have been a "warning" of some sort, because there were explicit rape scenes, written like erotic sex scenes, told from the POV of the rapist. The book was marketed as erotic romance, and needless to say I was squicked. However, I like my romance hot.

As a writer, I've had one reader complain that a book was "too hot." She rated it a 1/5, and said she wouldn't have read it at all if she'd known it was erotic romance; she liked the characters and the story, but gave it a low rating for the sex level.

A lot of smaller presses have implemented a rating system, and I wouldn't be surprised to see one set into place with the larger publishers eventually.

Yes, several in the "thriller" genre. I put them aside, mostly because they were poorly written, but also because the sexy bits fit poorly with the rest of the story.

I would hope that by researching your agent and what he/she has represented, as well as the standards for the genre, would hint at whether a prospective agent would be offended/put off/not interested in your work due to the level of sex. If the agent has only repped squeaky-clean projects and hasn't indicated an interest of getting out of that mold, he/she is probably not interested in anything too erotic.

As a reader, I don't require ratings. Sometimes I think it might be nice to know if a book has something that wouldn't be expected for the genre (e.g. a graphic rape, perhaps), but I'm fine doing my own research beforehand.

I'm not a fan of the hotter books in romance. I will put a book down if it becomes too explicit for me. In truth, that is rarely the only problem a book has though. I realize that this isn't 100% true, but I've noticed that in an awful lot of the books I've read lately, the bigger the sex, the lower the quality of the rest of the book.

However, I don't feel a need for a rating system. Covers say a lot. Does it have naked people in it? People losing their clothing? Lots of skin? Guess what... It's probably going to be high on the hotness scale and not something that would interest me.

Same thing with the back blurb. If the story is about 'wild passion' etc., etc., then I put it back.

What does upset me is when a book cover/blurb don't give an accurate portrayal of the story inside. And in truth, that is a greater problem than just the sex.

I only have a problem with sex scenes if they're: A.) gratuitous, since no scene should ever be gratuitous, B.) poorly done, because there's nothing worse than a bad sex scene, C.) obviously there to fill a quota [must have 5 sex scenes per novel], or D.) violent- and I don't mean lost in the throes of passion.

I have been caught off guard by explicit stuff in books. I don't think I'd go for a rating system per se, but I would like to see some language in the back cover copy, for example, that would give an idea of what one is getting into. (This doesn't apply to the category romance lines, where I suppose the name of the line alone pretty much tells you what to expect.)

I ran into a graphic sex scene in a sci fi which through me off. I wasn't expecting it from the genre, and while the sex was expected, there was little lead up to how explicit the description would be.

Rather than a rating system I'd want more information. I can't tell anymore from the cover or the blurbs whether "hot" means explicit or erotic. And I HATE it when the cover doesn't have anything to do with the story.

I'm for less is more. If the stage is set for sexual tension, your own mind fills in details according to what you find attractive -- someone's hand going up somone's thigh can be much more exciting than giving a play by play of what happens next. Too explicit details take you out of that, sometimes, I think.

But I write YA, so maybe I should let the romance writers answer this one...

I'm with the consensus that the language of the book should warn the reader on some level. In my very first crit group, there was an author that wrote historical western romances. Each time she was in the hero's POV, she always had him curse a time or two in his dialogue. She told our group that this indicated to the reader early on that the book would be racier in other ways as well, i.e. sex scenes. Also, the scene must be necessary and must change the dynamics of the hero/heroine's relationship from that point on.

As to what is too explicit? That's tough, because it is so subjective. But personally, I don't think you can go wrong so long as you follow your characters and be true to them. THEY will tell you how hot the scenes will be between them in the bedroom, according to their pasts, their personalities, their needs. It only feels forced and explicit if you stray out of character.

Stephen King said in his autobiography that the only way to wrong a reader is to lie to them. As fiction writers, that's sort of our job ... so it seems like a catch 22. But, I think what he meant was don't let your CHARACTERS lie to the readers. So long as the heroes/heroines are true to themselves and the world they live in, the reader will never feel slighted or deceived ... or violated, for that matter.

If I pick up a romance novel and it gets a bit hotter than I usually read I don't mind, I may skip, but I don't mind as long as the scene fits and isn't filler.

I do mind having an erotic scene in a book where I'm not expecting it. If I picked up a fantasy or sci-fi book where the back said it was a hard-boiled detective novel (or something similar) and I find erotica I'm not happy. I like some fair warning.

As for ratings.... as a reader I'd probably ignore them, but as a parent I'd kind of like to have some rating system for novels. When we're at the bookstore I don't necassarily have the resources to read the reviews and find out if a book my daughter wants has content that we need to talk about ahead of time or that as a family we've agreed don't meet our standards. I know teens get into all sorts of things, but when you have children reading ahead of their age level the maturity isn't always there to balance out things. A sticker on the shelf saying "mature YA" or something would be nice.

Oddly, I get a lot of comments from readers who wish I was MORE explicit...

I don't imagine there will be a mandatory, age-restricting rating system for books unless something widely offensive happens like it did with movies with The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Even so, since readers generally have some kind of taste and expectation in play when they pick up a book, having a clear indication of what they're getting would only benefit sales, I think.

Though perhaps people reading on the train to work would rather not have the "SUPER HOT SEX" indicator displayed on the spine... :)

This is where recommendations and book blogging can be so helpful. I don't favor a rating system, but it can be impossible to know. I"m a Christian and while I read just about everything, I know some people who want to stay away from certain stuff. Explicit sex scenes or a lot of language being the main things. So for some readers, it is important to know up front, and they will not buy books if they aren't sure.

As far as sex and profanity go, nothing offends me. I have a harder time with extreme violence, but I wouldn't expect to be warned about it via a ratings system. Chances are I won't be caught off guard because the violence will fit in the story and I will be prepared for it by I've read so far. If it doesn't fit in the story, I'll put down the book not because I'm offended, but because the story is obviously not well written.

Book rating system = boo. It would only lead to restrictions on who could access which books, and frankly I'm sick of unnecessary restrictions.

Really, the only thing in a book that would offend me is if an author's bigotry is showing. And there mustn't be a ratings system for that, either. It would result in the worst kind of labeling and pettiness.

I don't think I'm too explicit in my writing. In fact, I think I might be a bit too tame compared to some of the really hot authors out there.

I stick to my comfort level, which may rise and fall according to the story. If an agent or editor asks for more or less heat, I'll comply to the best of my ability.

When I was younger, I often raided my parents' library and stumbled across some really explicit stuff. I knew it was taboo, but didn't shy away from it. I like to think I learned a thing or two!

I agree that a rating system might create more problems than it solves. But readers do need some kind of hint about what may be coming.

John Ringo's Ghost series (military/techno thrillers) shocked his Sci Fi readers with its graphic and often violent sexuality. But he did an excellent job of setting the tone early so that we had some clue of what we were getting into. I can't remember all the intros, but Chapter 1 (not the prologue) of Unto the Breach begins with the main character saying, "F*** me." Two for the price of one, and if the reader can deal with that intro, they can probably survive everything else Ringo throws at them.

Readers will forgive surprises but not disappointment. Well-executed first paragraphs are the only rating system we need.

I'm definitely with the "no ratings" crowd. You really can't put an objective label on something subjective like "hotness" anyway.

And I agree with those saying poor plotting and writing are a bigger turn off than explicit scenes. I've never put down a book because it was too sexy or violent, but I've quit when the sex or violence made no sense to the story.

When Kensington Publishing launched Aphrodisia, they knew they were coming out with very sexy books that some readers might find offensive, so they opted for a warning. On the back of each book is a small notice: "WARNING This is a really hot book. (Sexually Explicit)" We still get Amazon.com reader reviews that complain there's too much sex in the books!

As far as putting a warning in the query letter, I would say absolutely not. It's so subjective--everyone's squick threshold is different and it's better to let editors decide for themselves whether or not the material is too graphic.

I've never been upset by a book, never felt it to be too explicit. I've been bored by books, disappointed by them, disgusted by them, but never shocked, not really.

I think if we start rating books on content, we need to start rating thoughts and conversations. Maybe we should have designated 'explicit' zones where people can be graphic or gruesome freely, and other 'safe' zones where the innocent and naive can play...

Sorry, that was a bit cynical, but I get that way when it comes to ratings.

No. Absolutely not. :/ One of the major weaknesses of fanfic as a community is that not only does custom require all stories to carry movie-style ratings, but anything that might make anyone blink, much less go "Ick!" or "Eww!" is warned up, down and sideways, even to the point of spoiling a plot twist. I find it frustrating and annoying, and would hate to see commercial fiction go the same way.

Angie

I was reading fantasy and sci-fi from the adult section of the library when I was 11 or so, and so I ran into sex scenes at an age when perhaps I shouldn't have. It didn't bother me, on the whole, but on two occasions I still remember I found myself reading rape scenes, and as a young girl, it was not so great.

While I really hate the idea of a rating system, I also hate the idea of strictly confining voracious young readers to the YA section... some kind of notification of sexual violence--very subtle--might be a good thing. Particularly in cases when an author writes some books that are more or less YA-appropriate and others that are not. One of the rape scenes I accidentally read was in a book by an author who also writes a series that, while in the adult section, has many young fans... I think in that case at least there should be a warning.

(By the way, I've just found your blog, so this is my first comment. Hi! I look forward to reading more! :)

I would like Jessica to post a few of the novels she feels are good examples of erotica.

No rating system. Big Brother's watching too many of our private activities as it is.

Like many others explicit sex doesn't bother me. I prefer it be in the mix of a great story. If I start to feel like its just sex-for-sex sake then I start skimming until I find the story again. No biggie.

I'm not sure about the rating thing. I know many review sites provide a rating and that's great for readers who may not want something so hot.

I think that's the great thing about our genre. There are so many heat levels. So many themes, genres, subgenres. There's something for everyone.

I'd be leery of a ratings system, for fear that the book-banning crowd would jump on it, wanting to ban R-rated books from libraries and things like that.

That said, this is one area where I think fanfic is ahead of profic. Fanfic includes in its header a warning line for any potentially disturbing content. The interesting thing is that while this very helpfully steers me away from stories I don't want to read (for example, stories involving physical abuse of heroine by hero), the warning line also acts as a hook sometimes! When reading fanfic, I often check the warning line before the plot summary, because it's there I'm most likely to be hooked!

About a year ago, I read a very popular book that I was under the impression was a sweet time-travel romance. Then I came to a scene where the hero beat the heroine for disobeying him, and that was followed by numerous torture and rape (or near-rape) scenes. I really felt blindsided. I would not have read the book if I'd known that content was in there.

Ironically, I've read more disturbing content than that in fanfic, but in those cases I knew what I was getting into because I'd read the warning line. I thought, "Well, I don't care for X, but maybe I'll just take a look...?" And in those cases I wasn't bothered by the content--at least I wasn't blindsided--because I'd made an informed choice to expose myself to it.

I agree with colettegarmer: If Jessica (or any of you readers) could list a couple examples of "good" or well-written erotica, and maybe a book or two from different ends of the explicit scale, that would be super helpful.

I'll admit that this was my question that I sent in, and although I'm pretty set on NOT mention the explicit scenes in my query, I'm still confused. Several people mentioned "standards of the genre" but I haven't been able to find any clear cut standards. I'm not writing a romance like the ones on the shelves with the Fabio-like men on the covers. I'm pretty firm in my idea to market it as women's fiction. I think some of my readers have concerns because the book starts when the MC is only 17, though by the second half (where most of the explicit scenes take place) she's in her 20's. I'm certainly not afraid of writing an erotica novel (indeed, that's one of my next ideas lol) but this one isn't it. It's not a YA novel either, but I guess there will always be readers who are uncomfortable with more than a closed-mouth kiss from anyone under 18. :-)

Sorry to steal the thread haha. But if anyone could point me toward some clear genre standards, or toward some good examples that I can read, I'd be super appreciative!

Lea -- my very favorite erotic romance right now is Bad Case of Loving You by Laney Cairo. Every time I read it, I'm startled all over again by just how much sex there is in it, because it doesn't feel like it when I think about the book.

I don't like pointless sex in stories, and when I run into it I skim through it. If I do too much skimming I feel cheated by the book. None of the sex in Bad Case is pointless, though; it's very explicit and gets into one or two kinks which one doesn't usually see in the mainstream romances, but it all works -- it reveals character and develops the relationship and furthers the plot, and just generally pulls its weight through the story. (Aside from being wonderfully well written and hot.) This is the best example I can think of of how to get a lot of explicit sex into a book without going over the line into "Too Much" either in quantity or explicitness.

Angie

I was frequently squicked by explicit sex from the time of twelve when I really Did Not Get It. And I am still annoyed by explicit sex scenes and books that focus on sexual relationships; if I wanted to read porn, I'd read porn.

If it were me, I'd like a warning the query letter. Whether it's 'a dark and disturbing tale' and 'without mercy' or 'hot' 'sexy'. That should be enough of a clue for me to know whether I want to read it.

Worst book I read? First volume had a bit of fighting and death. Second volume described, step by step, the killing and dismemberment of a child. By the good guy. The victim was his own nephew whom he had befriended.

Now I could just have lived with that if it had been perpetrated by a villain... but by the guy I'm supposed to cheer for? Only reason I wasn't physically sick was that I read it on the morning of a sunny day. Would I have wanted a warning?

You bet.