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Folks!
Read...set...QUERY!

If a manuscript catches the interest of one agent, it likely will garner interests of several other agents, too. I think the rise in multiple offers is due to writers being able to query many agents simultaneously. It also helps that writers can notify agents with partials and fulls of any offer of representation. :)

This is somehow encouraging news to a unrepresented writer such as myself. I know it's no fun for you, so sorry for that... but for me... yippee!!

Possibly it's because writers are taking their cue from the publishers, who are influenced by the economy. Knowing that the publishers are taking on fewer projects, means our writing has to be better than ever to get noticed.

To me, it's a win-win situation. Better books to read. And huge motivation to become the best writer I can be.

Well then. When I'm ready to query (hopefully by summer)I'll include you in my list. I can only hope I'm lucky enough to have agents fighting over me. :)

On the other side of this, it makes me want to take that little bit of extra time to make sure I'm ready. I'm sure the lack of authors is not due to a lack of queries on your table.

It's nice to hear something that positive. Thanks

Interesting. Is that good or bad that things are getting more competitive?

Makes sense. My theory: As things tighten, everyone focuses on the “sure things.” There is much more agreement about this group, since its members probably have stronger objective credentials (platform, track record, recommendations, etc).

At the same time, writers now know more about the industry. They know to query widely. And they know that weighing options is acceptable.

Top universities face this same issue every April – they go from big-bad rejecter to heavy recruiter once the acceptance letters are mailed.

Surely this really means that some writers are hot commodities at the moment. :)

That's actually very inspiring to read.

As a writer who is working in the first-draft trenches and unrepresented this is very encouraging to read. Gives me some hope for my future.

That's good to know. If only your agency took inspirational, I would have queried you by now.

I do agree with the person above who belives writers are striving more to give agents a better product. A better product generates more interest.

Gee, I haven't sent any queries out yet, but I am on the market for an agent. Feel free to contact me with an offer of representation before I'm off the market too. LOL!

It's posts like this that make me wish I was an optimist. If I were an optimist, I'd think, look at that. You see? It's possible. But I'm not an optimist. I'm a pessimist, and the post is absolutely crushing. Maybe they (the abstract they) are hot commodities, but the form rejections haven't slowed down in my inbox.

Some days are just harder than others.

I think this is great, and am antsy to get to querying.

I was actually being poached at this year's PPWC (and it was nice to see you there!). I'm not going to say who because that's not really polite, but it's nice to see authors being fought over. Now if the editors will just start fighting over our projects, we'll ALL be much happier. :)

I lay all the credit at early blogging agents like you and at the stiletto heels of the Late Great Miss Snark ... she started off the move to educate us idiots about how to write a great query ... and it taught us a lot about writing in general.

Aren't you proud?? We listened!

Five? Five? Seriously? Now I'm kind of depressed. I've been hoping to get just one person interested. If the people getting picked up are getting that kind of interest, it makes me wonder if I'm just nowhere near good enough. :/ I mean, I've had a little interest, but nowhere even close to having five offers.

Wow, that's encouraging news. It'll be a while yet before I'm querying, but still... : )

An arguement could be made that this simply shows the lack of diversity in what the industry is looking to publish.

Is it because there are less quality submissions that the same amount of agents are fighting over, or are there the same amount of quality submissions that more agents are fighting over?

It seems that there are more and more agents these days, with writers becoming part time agents and editors leaving their desks to become agents.

I follow Publishers Lunch deals, and it seems like there are more deals lately too, which is a good sign. So maybe there are more quality books and more agents and more interest from publishing companies? One can only hope...

kfran

I'm betting it's the same reason most agents say they are seeing so many more queries than in the past: the majority are now on the web and accept queries via email.

Querying used to be a tedious and somewhat expensive process of researching submission guidelines, printing various components, assembling contents, and mailing packets. I'm betting the average writer did their querying in quantities of five or ten at a time, and waited for responses before going through the process again.

Now we have web sites like QueryTracker and Publishers Marketplace that aggregate current submission guidelines and web site URLs to make research easy, and a query letter is often just a matter of copy-pasting the right ingredients. It wouldn't surprise me if many writers send out queries in batches of 20-30 at a time, or even more.

So while the bad part is that you're all buried under piles of electronic slush, when that one needle does show up in your haystack the odds are good that it's in all the other haystacks as well.

As a writer, as much as I appreciate the ease and affordability of e-queries and QueryTracker, in some ways I miss the old days. Sure, it was a pain to put together query packets, but it meant that a query represented a real commitment to writing and getting published. Nowadays I suspect a lot of queries are from folks who are out of work and figure, "Hey, what the hell, I'll write a book and see if someone wants to buy!"

I suspect this also explains why several agents have mentioned the recent frequency of partial- and full-requests that go unanswered for months or years at a time. It's so easy to send a query now, I bet a lot more people do it before they've finished (or maybe even started) the book itself.

I feel this states that agents have narrowed what they will accept due to the overwhelming amount of queries they receive as compared to a few years ago.

This has caused a higher demand for work that fits into a set of standards. It requires everyone writing to raise the bar higher to become one of the few writers who is going to be sought after by numerous agents.

This may have always been the case, but it is being magnified now as all agents are looking for more 'sure' things.

Call me a skeptic, but I don't think it has anything to do with the writing or book. I think that it's the "grass is always greener on the other side" thing. If one agent likes something and makes an offer, then the others are suddenly alerted, thinking they are going to be left out, and they scramble to read that ms, but they are reading with rose colored glasses, knowing it might be out of their reach. Nobody wants to be the one person missing out.

I had an agent who'd only read a partial of my book offer to rep it thirty seconds after I notified him of another agent offer. I thought it was unprofessinal and bizaare.

(The agent that "won", btw, never sold the book.)

Question: How many of these "hot properties" are *new*, unpublished writers, *without* "previously established platform" (i.e., popular blogs, millions of Twitter followers, etc.?)

This is heartening news only if it's *new* writers and not less risky, "proven" writers who are getting all the attention.

That is nice to know from an authors view. But don't worry, you have great cients and I'm sure you'll have many more to come...

Dawn Chartier
www.dawnchartier.com

I think we can all agree that taste is subjective. And I believe most agents are good at what they do, or else they’d be in another line of work. Since agents are receiving thousands upon thousands of queries, and they obviously must have different subjective tastes, why are they all fighting for the same books? I just can’t accept the “needle in the haystack” theory. Because accounting for taste, everyone’s needles would be different. It has to come from what the publishing houses are buying. So to rise from slush, it seems that you must write a book that publishing is already looking for. I don’t see this as particularly encouraging as a writer, nor does it excite or stimulate me as a reader. Maybe I'm being too cynical or too sour-grapey for this generally upbeat blog, but it seems a logical conclusion based on the facts at hand. Maybe Kristin or some other insiders can refute this and cheer us up!

Hummmm...I imagine the YA, fantasy, romance genre is hotter than usual. This is good news for one slice of the giant writer-hood pie out there.

Kristen, I received your April newsletter today and read about your participation on an "ebook panel" and the many resulting changes in publishing business models, etc because of the new technology...

You mentioned to your readers about four or so excellent resourcces (PW, PM & Shelf Awareness, etc) to become informed RE the latest happenings in the tumultuous publishing industry..

I would like to mention two other excellent free resources...

I find this industry fascinating and full of intrigue (especially now) and, If I may, I would like to mention my two writers blogs that search & research the entire trade resources for the latest happenings:

Writers Welcome Blog (est Oct,2008) http://alturl.com/4z88

Writers Thought for Today Blog (est Nov, 2009) Http://alturl.com/tnap

Please take a look at some of the posts and I think you will agree...

Thanks for any time you give me,

John R. Austin

WOOT! Time to start querying...
Thanks for the great post.

Wow... I had no idea things had become THAT competitive. Is it just in the genres, though? Or do you think it's that way for literary and mainstream fiction, too?

May this trend continue for at least another year, because by then I'll have a project ready to go.

SLIDESHOW: Music fans...Check out David Cook performing last night in Charlotte, NC http://bit.ly/6XXHYv

At least you had a fighting chance--you were on the writer's list of agents to query!

It was great to meet you today, Kristin!

Nice to know editors are still buying books. And as always, it's nice to nice we writers aren't the only ones facing rejection from time to time:)

Oh wow! Looks like we'll be hearing a lot about that book in some time. Still, you can never win em all but that doesn't mean you won't win sometimes. :)

Just curious...what genre was that book in?

what's the name of the project? I'm really curious!

Could you tell us if the author is a debut author or if they are previously published but didn't yet have an agent? Just curious and hope you're having fun.

Can't get them all.

But with your inspiration and leadership, I'm certain you'll get what books or deals you need to make you forget about this one. You’re in my top 3 agent wish list. I can only dream of you being my agent.

Best of luck.

OK, so this one got intercepted, but you have great hands and there's no reason the next touchdown pass won't come your way. (Just finished writing a bio of a football player for a reference book, so that's where my head is today.) Anyway, enjoy your time in NYC.

The interest shown by the other agents confirms your instincts are bang on :)

I don't want to ask for specifics, but what kind of project can get so many publishers and agents all hot and bothered these days?

Sorry about that...

But it must be a wonderful story for there to be that much interest--and the fact that it went for a good price too at auction.

I'll be curious to see what book it is when it comes out--do you think when it's published you'll be able to let us know? :)

I'm sure you're still happy for the writer who sold in such a big, exciting way. And it's normal to be bummed that you weren't part of that process.

Thanks for blogging the good news. I've got a ms out right now, and am thrilled to hear publishers are opening their checkbooks. (Xing fingers and toes.)

I can't wait to find out what this mysterious book is called.

I guess for an agent "the one that got away" has an especial poignancy to it. (Or is it pungency? Sometimes I confuse the two).

Please do at least tell us the genre.

Did it have vampires in it?

You've piqued my interest. Can you tell us a little more about the project that got so many publishers and agents interested? Specifically, I'm curious to know the genre and if the author is established or debut?

Thanks for sharing all of your insight. Keep fighting the good fight.

There are things I'd rather not know, too.

I am also intrigued to know what would warrant such a response for representation?

Good news for new authors, but we're sorry about the news on your end :P. Oy. Well, here's to more awesome projects coming your way soon!

Chin up dear. At least you know a good one when you spot it. Don't have to second guess your eye for talent.

Though I have been reading your blog and newsletter for a time, I haven't yet dropped a comment. I'll begin here.
Keep your chin up, eyes open and follow your heart - good things will come... but you knew that.
Munk

New York is a persuasive town. Pay it no attention when its in a grumpy mood.

munk

Was it a love-story about teenage vampires? I hear they're all the rage at the moment... My local bookshop even has a section devoted to "supernatural romance" now.

Kristen,
Just followed formally. Great--no unbelievable site. If they choose another Agent I would suspect they didn't read Pub Rant for the last 6 months. I'm impressed with you.

Thanks for an inspiring post! It's always nice to hear some optimism :)

I know it's nothing that hasn't been said before. It's much-needed encouragement in a time that is slightly discouraging. Thank you Kristin and Megan.

This is a great post. One of my best friends, for years, is a long time Lit Agent. He has all the contacts anyone would ever need. But, we've NEVER mixed business with friendship.

I found my own agent through queries and constantly working on publishing credits. It wasn't easy, especially when one of your best friends is an agent (talk about weird Karma), but it was worth it.

Fantastic post. Very inspiring for all of us out here in aspiring-author-land who've been hearing all those horror stories and depressing tales about how knowing nobody gets you nowhere. Glad to know it's just a myth! :D

Well, don't I feel like an ass.

I was wrong on at least two counts: Apparently Kristin does read at least some of the comments left on her blog, and she does--at least in one case--handle ghost stories.

Why do I get this feeling there's already a form rejection letter stamped and ready to go and pinned to a voodoo doll wearing a white shirt and tie. It's this feeling I get.

To quote Micheal Keaton from the movie Night Shift: "I'm feeling a lot of love in this room...I don't know, it was there a minute ago."

Seriously though, I normally don't read YA, but I bought a copy of this book a few minutes ago from Amazon. Hardback and less than twelve bucks; not a bad deal. There's even some sample pages to read, and Megan Crewe, I must say, seems to write some pretty good prose. I can't vouch for the story yet, but I'm looking forward to reading it, maybe do a review at Amazon on it.

What's on my Itunes right now? What else? Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word, Sir Elton John. God, I hate the taste of crow.

Hasta

I have been saying this for years. I am delighted that Megan has proved it and delivered some stats as well.
I shall use your stats at a presentation I'm giving on Saturday, crediting Megan of course.

Really worth saying - TY!

Megan and Kristin, Great post! It's always nice to know you don't have to be a friend of a friend to get your foot in the door. Thanks for sharing the good news. I'm going to tweet this link on Twitter. ;-)

Congrats Megan on your book debut. I'm glad to see this post. It really all does come down to having a great, saleable book.

Hi Megan and Kristin:

Great post and very encouraging. I'll second all the comments and the results because I too found my agent via an email query and she went on to sell my YA novel! Now, agents -- we want them to have connections! But that's the point -- you need an agent because they know the editors and they know how to find the perfect fit for your book.

Megan, your book looks great and I hope it hits the Kindle store soon!

Great post. I can second your sentiments too, as I'm yet another agented writer who had no connections before. My dear friend also had no connections when she snagged her agent—she's publishing in 2010. It does happen, rather frequently.

I'm constantly lurking on here and it looks like Give up the Ghost is what'll pull me out. In response to Gordon, I can vouch for the story. It's so good I want another helping! I'd love to find out more about Cass someday :)

Thanks for the great post Megan & Kristin. I personally didn't need the numbers, the story was enough.

I have felt bogged down with all the "branding, networking and industry savvy" an author needs now to get published. This is followed by the "marketing, selling and networking" the author needs to do after the sale.

Yes, I am aware that as an author I am a business. For me, it's a really simple business plan, the most basic structure.

Create an awesome product, present it professionally to customers. Follow up with another awesome product comparable to the first. And so I am now inspired again, to relax, and continue to create that awesome product. Because those with the connections, they will come... :)

Megan, congrats on the debut! And thanks for doing this, it's refreshing to see results like this.

Congrats to Megan! I was in a bookstore this weekend and saw this book in the YA section, proudly faced out. Great job!

I wasn't aware that other people thought you needed connections in the industry -- any agent blog will tell you different. But who knows? Lots of people want to make excuses for their stuff not selling, and maybe that is an easy one.

This does not give me hope.

Ouch, Anonymous, a little harsh.

I'm not using "it's who you know" as an excuse. The other published writers I know don't use it as an excuse, either. We keep on honing our craft and keep on querying.

It's discouraging, though, when we read about others getting their first manuscript published when they knew someone in publishing or knew someone who knew someone. We begin to wonder if it's all about east coast/west coast connections. I wouldn't blame agents and publishers for adopting this attitude. They've got to know that you can deliver the baby on time and that you are willing to edit your baby to boot. It's a business to them, and it's a huge risk dealing with an unknown quantity.

Congratulations to Megan. And thank you, too, for the encouraging words and giving us thus-far-unpublished-writers hope that we can get our fiction published without contacts.

And thank you to the agents and publishers who are willing to take a risk on the unknowns.

@ Alan
"This does not give me hope"

Why ever not?

I'm currently in the submissions to editors stage having secured an agent for my first novel with no previous connections other than sending out lots of queries - yes, there were lots of rejections, but our agent actually showed an interest within a couple of days of all the queries going out, and we signed within a few weeks.

I'd say this gives a lot of hope, I just don't understand why you would think otherwise.

I'm glad you shared this here too, Kristin (and Megan). Great writing speaks for itself! :)

Thanks, Megan. As a fellow resident of the True North, I often find myself worrying that geographical isolation from the center of the publishing universe will make it more difficult for me to sell my work.

You've been very reassuring.

Congratulations on the success Megan! Can't wait to read it. Thank you for taking the time to share your journey with us.

As a Canadian writer with no connections and no money to make said connections, this gives me hope like you wouldn't believe.

Thank you for this post and congrats Megan! I'm already putting this book on my To Fangirl Over List.

Hope I join you there in Published Land one day :)

Wildfire -- I said "lots" of people, I didn't say "you." :)

Heck, my own stuff isn't selling at the moment, either. It's not from not knowing an agent.

--Anon 7:47

Thanks for the encouragement, it will help me! And of course congrats on your book.

All that and Megan's book is fabulous too!

I had no connections either.
I did, however, follow the agent's submission guidelines.

Perhaps I also finally wrote something worth publishing? lol.

I don't really know what to say except to repeat (but to you) what I thought when I read the previous entry: "Wow, I'd have thought that was fast."

But apparently there's always someone slightly faster. Must have been some amazing MS, and good luck to the author in any case.

If you were any faster you would need a time machine. Which actually, would be awesome, because you could offer representation to a writer before they had even finished their book. Plus you could bet on sport events and make lots of money.

What if a writer had a time machine? Who could resist the temptation to go uptime a few years, buy the best-sellers, and then come back and type them up with their own name on them? That could rip a hole in the space-time continuum and leave us all spinning into a temporal vortex. Or maybe not---I don't know.

Hi Kristin, I'm just wondering, what happens if some agents ask for a partial and some agents ask for a full? What happens when the agent who read the full makes you an offer?

I know most agents say, "All bets are off, let me know straight away". But does that mean you send them the full without their asking and say, "I have an offer, so here's my full- read it!"

And how long do you give them- a week? How long is too long to keep an interested agent waiting?

This may be different in the UK, but I've been asked not to submit to other agents even at the query stage. And reading times are longer here too, 4 months is not unusual for just first three chapters. I've learned to be patient. The whole sorry tale is on my blog.

Question for you Kristin: If an agent has a full and another agent requests a partial, do you still advise the agent asking for a partial? Or do you wait until (if and when) they ask for a full. I guess I worry about coming off cocky because the agent is only requesting a partial, but your post makes me wonder if I should have mentioned it. :(

'I could have spent those 8 hours on a different manuscript.'

... and there's your problem.

I'm a professional writer, I had half a dozen novels out on the shelves and selling before I looked for an agent. I'm happy with my representation now, but it was harder finding an agent than getting that first book published, and that's manifestly the wrong way round.

Read back the bit I quoted. You spent *eight hours* reading an entire manuscript by an author. The author will have spent eight *months* on it. This is someone you've pre-screened and that you're excited about? The agent who wants to represent the book demands a full manuscript, then skim reads it and makes a gutfeel decision. That's the best case scenario for an author?

And if the author goes with another agent, the agent resents losing those eight hours simply because they could have spent the time on another from the pile.

Here's what happened with the agent I went with: she liked my contact email, she emailed to ask if she could phone, she was actually only an hour away so we arranged to meet up for lunch instead, I sent her three chapters, we met up for lunch, she explained what she saw her role as being, all framed in terms of the work she would be doing, she discussed my book in a way that suggested she'd read it, we shook hands. Contact email Thursday, lunch the following Tuesday, contract with publisher the next month.

... and a month after that I got an email back from another agency I'd submitted to on the same day saying they weren't taking any submissions at that time.

I did submit to Nelson before that. After a week I got a form email telling me how to use the website to submit, a week later you asked for a full, and two weeks later sent a three line form email saying the book 'wasn't right for our agency' without any explanation why. It felt like queuing in the post office, rather than the start of a mutually beneficial working relationship.

You didn't want the book, that's fair enough, and it's possible both of you read it carefully, passionately debated its pros and cons, had very strong opinions about it ... but that's not how it came across. You read sample chapters and requested a full, so you must have had some enthusiasm, but absolutely none was transmitted to me, no sense of what you liked and disliked about it at any stage, why you liked the opening but not the rest, or even that you'd really read it.

The joke of it is that you are *way* up on the list of 'pleasant experiences trying to find an agent'. I feel a little guilty picking you out. You were quick, your site made it clear what you're interested in, you didn't leave me hanging for months before rejecting.

But that quote from you sums it up, I think - you're not seeing it from the authors' point of view, the months they've already spent on the book, you're seeing it in terms of you wasting an hour or two. Please, instead of getting defensive about your current practice, try thinking of a way to improve it. Or at least acknowledge that authors probably spent eight hours of their lives working on their *cover letter*, so don't lament that you spent eight hours reading their full manuscript.

Annonymous,
As an unpubbed writer, I really can't agree with you.
A writer devotes 8 months of the year to one book, 8 months next year to their next book i.e. a writer only needs to devote themself to approx 1 book a year.
An agent cannot make a living on 15% of 1 book a year. Agents need to devote themselves to an enormous number of manuscripts in order to add just 1 client to their list.
I'd say that 8 months of writer devotion is probably equivalent to 8 hours of agent devotion to the same piece of work

How bad is it, really? You spent eight hours reading a book you really liked. I could think of many worse ways to spend your time.

'I'd say that 8 months of writer devotion is probably equivalent to 8 hours of agent devotion to the same piece of work'

Right ... as a 'pubbed' writer, can I just say what a load of tosh. For a start, there are very few writers who can make a living just writing one novel a year.

For another thing: you just said that an agent's time is worth 750 times an author's. You missed the point of my original post - if I'd have had a whiff of the sense that Nelson had even read my manuscript (and I'll say it again, they requested a full, after chapters, after a cover letter - I was someone they *liked*), I'd have been much happier. Even if it had been a three line rejection letter with the *title* of my book in it, that would have helped.

I'll say it again - this isn't personal against Nelson, they were one of the better ones. But there's a better way of doing business.

Anon 6:13, if agents spent as long reading books as authors did writing them, response times would be even longer than they are now, don't you think?

If an agent makes the decision about whether or not they want to represent the author after reading the MS through once, I don't see a problem with that. The author can still have a conversation, ask the agent questions about how they see the relationship going, making sure their goals are aligned, etc -- after the agent has decided that representation is on the table. If an agent had a half-hour discussion about the agent-author relationship with evey author who submitted a query, or even a partial, they'd have no time for current clients.

And as much as everyone wants helpful feedback from the query process, current clients have to be the top priority. They just do.

@Anon -
I would be incredibly grateful to have a stellar agent like Kristin spend *eight* hours of her weekend on my manuscript. She knows there's no guarantee the MS is still available, or that the client will choose her in the end, but she still devotes the equivalent of a full business day to a single MS? To me that's dedication, and nothing to be bitter over.

Kristin, from what I've read (both her and on other sites) I think you are one of the most dedicated agents out there. Keep it up!

I just wanted to share my experience getting an agent. After more than a dozen rejections--it's hard to remember, I guess really more like 2 or 3 dozen!--an agent finally called, on a Monday, and wanted the book. Obviously, she had a full.

When I got her offer, I emailed everyone I'd queried--people with fulls, with partials, and even agents who still hadn't responded to my query. I had one more agent (who already had a full) get back to me on Wednesday, and she wanted it too. I liked both agents, the second better than the first. It was a nice problem to have.

Then a third, one of those I had queried who hadn't yet responded, had my followup email about my offers forwarded to him by his assistant. He asked for 50 pages on Thursday, then the whole thing over the weekend, and on Monday called and was ecstatic and said he'd give his eyeteeth for it! Guess who I went with?

So the moral of the story is if you get an offer, let EVERYONE know. Who knows whom else you'll flush out! And wait, if possible, till someone is jumping up and down about it.

And the second lesson is that things can go very slowly (months of rejections) and then heat up very quickly! BTW all this happened in August, when everyone, including me, was on vacation. As a matter of fact a fourth agent, who was also on vacation, wanted it too (alerted by my followup email--she also hadn't repsonded to my initial query). She had her assistant read first, and by the time she got the ms. I was committed to Mr. Enthusiastic, who is a dream come true.

Oh--and by the way: anyone who can write a novel in 8 months is a freak of nature, as far as I'm concerned! And any agent who spends 8 hours on a submission is doing her job very, very well.

Anons--very good points! But this all comes down to the inherent problem: if most people think any AGENT's time is more valuable than a writer's time, then we'll continue to have this imbalance of power. After all, we create the product--even if they don't fly off the shelves, books are the basis for TV and movies as well. Without us, agents have/do nothing.

I'd say a writer's time is MORE valuable than an agent's time since we can only focus on one book or project at a time...
Equal rights for writers, please!

You and Sara are so wonderful to take this in stride! And you're right, the match just must not have been quite there.

Can I just ask, I've seen several comments on here about people with several agents vying for their project; what about if one has asked for exclusivity? I've had multiple agents interested, but the first asked for exclusivity, so I haven't given the others the fulls. Is this not a smart move on my part? (Sorry to digress slightly).

Why the competition about whose time is more valuable, author's or agent's? Each person's time is equally valuable. We simply do different things - equally valuable things - with our time.

'if agents spent as long reading books as authors did writing them'

I'm not asking for that, I'm only asking that agents don't act like they're down on the deal when they're sent a free, complete book to read but they don't like it.

I had books published before I went looking for agents, I wrote a book that I thought was strong and commercial - and the agent I ended up with signed it up for a little more money than I hoped for, in a couple of weeks, deal done.

I understand that not all books are for agents, I just didn't appreciate the attitude that if I spent a year writing a book understanding the market, that's required a tiny amount of editing, that two publishers instantly liked ... that the agent is doing me a favor when I contact them, jump through their hoops and so on, so they can spend (so they say) a couple of hours skimming it.

As I say ... my name or the book's name on the form email would have been something. And, as I say, it's very possible these agents did all sorts of amazing stuff with the manuscript, but it certainly *looked* like they didn't.

Anon 10:28, if you've already granted the exclusivity you need to honor it, but there always needs to be a defined time limit. If there isn't one, you can set it, and say "If I haven't heard from you by X date (if they've already had it more than a month, I'd set a date one or two weeks away) I'll plan to distribute the material to other agents who have requested it." You can wordsmith it if you like, but an exclusive without a time limit is very unfair to you.

I wish there was an official manual that came along with the desire to be a published writer.

One item would read: "Do not grant exclusives unless the agent is so far and away your No. 1 choice that you would regard any other agent as sloppy seconds. If asked for an exclusive, simply say, 'I'm afraid I can't do that, but I can guarantee that if someone else offers representation, I won't say yes until I've spoken with you first.'" Which naturally leads to:

The second item: "If you receive an offer of representation while your ms is still being considered by other agents, by all means do internal somersaults, but calmly tell the offering agent that you're thrilled but it's such an important decision you need to process it first. Then advise other agents of the offering agent's offer and give interested parties a reasonable time period in which to finish up their own deliberations."

Anon 6:13 --

I understand your frustration and feel your pain, but you're missing the point. To an agent, your book is no more than a business transaction. It's a JOB for them. It's not their responsibility to tell you what they liked or didn't like. They aren't writing coaches, or friends, or crit partners.

I see your point about the balance of power, but there's another way to look at that as well. In the beginning, the agent has all the power. That changes later on, though. Once the relationship is formed, the writer has more power. The writer gets paid more than the agent. The agent works for the writer.

Try not to be so frustrated. You're an artist. The agent is a businessman. And that's really how it should be.

'It's not their responsibility to tell you what they liked or didn't like.'

It is their *job* to like or dislike, though. There's no 'pain' or 'frustration' - I found another agent. I didn't need a 'writing coach' - the book they read is three slight edits away from the book that's being published.

A swift rejection with no explanation is better than one that takes months and says something vague about 'it just didn't hook me'.

The tone of the original post, the idea that the only sacrifice involved and time lost was the agent's eight hours but it's OK because there's another one just like it on the pile ... all I'm saying is that rubs at least this author up the wrong way.

I got pretty far through the Nelson process - full manuscript. It didn't feel personal or enthusiastic, however far I progressed, it felt like ... well, a process.

Lots of pros and cons here. I agree with Nelson as much as I agree with the anonymous writer.

Plenty of this comes with how an agent is trying to get their image across. Are they trying to look all hand-holdy and comforting friend, or are they trying to come across in a strictly-business sort of way? Does the agent pick through those thousands of queries in an attempt to find someone they can cuddle with (figuratively, of course), treating all the rest with business appropriate efficiency?

Having met Ms. Nelson, I can tell you she comes across as very professional, with a very no-nonsense and business-like approach. You aren't going to get reassuring hugs as an unpublished writer, though I imagine that changes if she's in love with your book and thinks she can do something with it... as it should.

That said, I assume there are agents out there that specialize in the cuddling aspect of the biz-- keep the writer writing by making them feel calm and important. I also imagine that these are the agents with lucrative clients, a small roster of writers and a considerably smaller slush pile to get through... the ever elusive 'word-of-mouth-agent'. You don't meet this person unless it's through some arcane channel of intros; there is no billboard saying "QUERY ME!"

The anonymous writer above points out that the inequity in time spent on the parts of agent and author seems rather sinister... but it isn't. It doesn't take someone eight months to read a book, not a good one. Perhaps a weekend, for someone with the time and inclination, will be spent lost in the pages. Books take a helluva lot longer to write than to read, just like movies, and if we go by money/time spent in that model, we'd be spending two days in the theater and paying eighty grand to get a ticket! It's a volume business, not a 'time-spent-crafting' one. Period. The writer spends the time writing for the love and hopefully, for some financial gain.

If we look at this endeavor in terms of people appreciating the work we put into the product, rather than just the end product itself, perhaps we'd all be better off working for construction companies.

Incidentally, I'm not a client or even an ardent supporter of Kristin Nelson... she rejected me (as she should have) and hammered in the whole concept of "Find an agency that's a good fit for you and your work" rather than "Find any agency that will take you." An older, wiser me looks at what she represents and says, "Boy, was she right... we don't mesh well, literarily speaking."

I didn't want hand holding or writing coaching or to feel important or a pat on the head telling me I must have worked really hard. I don't want them to spend as long reading my manuscript as I spent writing it.

As I say, I was a previously-published author and since then I got representation and a deal. I'm not bitter or frustrated, although I know it must come across like I am.

I'll try to sum up my objection: I don't think Nelson simply set up their email to email me back automated responses a set time after I emailed them and never bothered reading what I sent ... but I can't be sure of that. I sent them 100,000 words, I have no proof that they even read the title.

And that's wrong, surely, when I've got as far as sending a full manuscript and agents are in the business of building a relationship with an individual author and championing their material?

Sorry ... I honestly didn't want to go on about this forever, I just want to make it clear that all I'm trying to be is constructive. Whatever Nelson's intentions or motivations, the end impression, for me, wasn't one that would have me rushing to sign up with them.

To Anon., 2.25 PM
Despite your better intentions you do come across as bitter and frustrated and like a child complaining that Kristin didn't read my book but she read some other book. The comparison between time spent writing and reading a novel is spurious at best. It is not the time spent to but the weight given to the hours/minutes that will actually allow a comparison. For example, a writer is expected to take 8 months or whatever to write. An agent simply cannot out in an equivalent amount of time. Their 8 hours of reading actually is equivalent to your writing time within the context of their business. It is entirely up to the agency to read, like, reject, or not read your submission (yes even after they request the full or partial). This is a business, whether you like it or not. The agent is a business person. Selling a book is a business transaction. Take it or leave it - that is the reality. Some agents send a form rejection others send a personalized one. Some banks have a live person, some use a phone system to respond to customers. Some stores have great salespeople, others are the pits. You make an informed choice to use the business based on your personal preferences. Please do the same in the business of writing. The Nelson Agency is a business like any other - better than many in fact. And no, I am not one of their authors.

Anon published author, I get what you're saying. Thank you for giving us another picture. This blog is a great resource and I appreciate that Kristin allows honest discussion.

I think the author was too hasty - why not wait until all interested agents have read and you have a chance to compare what they have to say. If an agent wants you enough they'll understand. I was lucky enough to hae three agents interested, I gave them all time to read, interviewed them all and went with the one who felt right. It was an incredible position to be in...and nice that my agent knows she had compettion!

Oh and I do know how to spell competition!!!!!

The way I see it,the author sent out multiple queries, an agent asked for a partial before, and the wires were crossed. This is a writers dream. It's my dream!!!!

The author should have extended Sara the opportunity to respond. Like Anon 12 AM, I also had 3 agents interested. And I am sooo glad I waited for #3 to return from travels. All 3 offered representation, but by the time I'd interviewed all 3 and talked to their authors, I knew beyond a doubt #3 was the one. She's even more fantastic than I expected. To those seeking representation, give all interested agents the courtesy of a read. You won't regret it.

You failed to mention that was ten calendar days NOT ten working days. That is an amazing turnaround. Or do you work 24/7. I really hope you dont.

That's how you know an author has something.

I guess when the writing is excellent, things can move very quickly. Congrats to the writer! And good luck, Sara, on the next one!

Gosh, sorry to read about the one that got away--maybe the author just didn't know any better, but I've always read (and personally experienced) that when an offer comes in, you alert the other agents who have requested pages about it to give them a chance to chime in. Ditto Anita--lucky author to have so much interest, but this blog post gives us a peek at how agents face disappointment, too.
Tara

Sorry to read that. Perhaps something more interesting is around her corner however. :-) Keeping good thoughts.

As for fast enough... wow! She must have approached the other agent first. That's my guess, anyway.

Blessings,
Lil

That's very fast, but them's the breaks. I suggest dark chocolate.

Dang, never thought of that kind of disappointment from Agent's POV. Maybe something good is in her inbox??? Hint, hint. Rubbing a magic lantern here...

The first Anon had a good point. The author should've emailed Sara and given her the chance to read the Full, since she was still reading the Partial. Unless, of course, the author was certain, and she probably was, that the other agent was the right one for her.

I prefer to thoroughly examine all my options before coming to such an important decision.

Sara shouldn't feel bad, that author could have been submitting for six months or longer before they sent the query to her. And if that author met up with rejection after rejection, I’m sure they were pleased to find someone to champion their work.

That writer clearly has something seriously great going on. Sorry, Sara, but we writers experience that kind of downer all the time. A great agent has our partial or full (look.in.mirror) and decides to pass. I agree with Kimber An - dark chocolate to the rescue!

I don't think the writer did anything wrong by accepting the other agent's offer. Writers query widely, and sometimes it shakes out this way. The venerable Miss Snark urged writers to continue to query even when partials/fulls were out. That's what I did, and I'm not sorry, especially when three agents wanted me all at once.

But, I'm sorry that you guys had to be on the losing end this time. Rejections are tough all around.

Are you kidding? Most writers would kill for that turn around time! Definately fast enough. Any time someone asks for a partial it's kind of time for us as writers to put the breaks on giving it out to anyone else in the same manner. If they were in that progressed of a submission state with someone else they should have mentioned it.

I have a feeling that author is going to regret not going with you guys!!

For a completely different perspective, I had an agent offer, notified the other agents, and then had a second agent offer.

I ended up taking the second agent, and was wrong. I firmly believe that some agents "jump on the bandwagon" with an offer if they know another agent is interested.

In my case the book didn't sell and the agent later dumped me. (I'm not suggesting Sara would do this) The agent I chose swooned the loudest over my book. But that dedication plummeted after one round of submits to editors with no takers. I confused flattery with commitment to selling my book. A mistake I'm trying not to make again. So difficult, these things. Live and learn.

Looking back at my first go-around with agent representation, I should have kept searching and not settled. I was green and blind to the fact that the writing had promise but needed a damn good spanking with edits. She sent it out as-was. Needless to say, she never made a sale, but I learned a lot.

As to turn around time, that's the kind of response time us authors dream of. Now that I'm on the agent hunt again, I can only hope for that swift a reply (prayerfully, a request, too ^_^)

It might have nothing to do with speed. Maybe the author just really hit it off with the other agent and just *knew.* Or maybe, as someone else said, the author had been querying for months and it just shook out that way.

This was fascinating, although a bummer for Sara. Thank you for sharing!

It's so interesting to see the agent's perspective. I never thought you'd ever be benefitted by having a faster turnaround time. I just thought you'd have to pace yourselves with everything just to keep sane ;).

Kristin, when you find something with potential, do you try to jump all over it? Or do you let Nature take its course?

To all the commenters who are saying the author should have given this agent a chance to read the full before signing with someone else: perhaps that first agent was her dream agent, or someone she really hit it off with.

Still, that's an amazing turnaround time! And I wish the author the best o fluck with ehr career.

Typically, I have to agree. Writer should notify agents who have requested pages about impending representation. Having a choice is not such a bad thing really. However, if that agent was someone I really wanted and the other agents weren't, I probably wouldn't worry so much.

I have to say I think it was a bit tacky of the author to not let Sara know that it was being considered/ that she/ he had an offer. I had multiple agents interested and even when I thought I knew who I was going with, I waited for all the responses (and am glad that I did, as I changed my mind).

Apparently it wasn't fast enough in this instance. About the only thing the author might have done was alert Sara to another agent's offer of representation and give her the opportunity to read the full and make her own offer if so inclined. Other than that, sometimes you git the b'ar and sometimes the 'bar gits you'

First of all... here we authors are waiting to hear from agents, meanwhile, agents can't get through the pile fast enough. Amazing.

I'm not sure if I did it right or not, but last October your agency requested a partial of my manuscript, within a day or two of sending it, I received an offer from another agent and took it. I immediately sent out emails to all agents with partials that I had taken an offer. It hadn't dawned on me that you might not see that email until you've already invested your time. I hope that wasn't the case, you guys are awesome. And super busy.

I did try to use proper etiquette.

If you or the other agents had the FULL manuscript, I would have allowed for reading time, of course.

Having suffered through some bad experiences in this industry... I just didn't want a really great offer to slip away. We authors are a very pessimistic bunch.

Yeah, that is a bummer.

I, too, suggest chocolate, but I'm partial to milk chocolate. :-)

That's a fast time frame. You'll get the next one, Sara. It's all good.

So from query to asking for full—10 days. Ain’t that fast enough? Ah, the old "ya snooze, ya lose." I had a query from a Los Angeles news icon. It arrived on a Friday night - 8 p.m. I read it right then and there - and immediately called his representative. We talked again over the weekend. Short story; we signed him that next weekend.

Random House called to ask if we'd really signed him (they saw the announcement in PM). Yes, indeedy, sez me. Bummer, sez they. I never felt so great in all my life.

On the flip side, an agent snared an author (totally fair and square)that we took too long to consider. I blinked, and she signed with the agent and went on to nab a gabajillion dollar deal. Way cool for her.

So I sympathize with Sara. Sometimes you blink, sometimes you don't, and it feels great. Next time, Sara!

Talking about not fast enough: a member of a writers' forum I'm on received a request for a full on Friday and wondered if it was OK to do some final polishing over the weekend before submitting it on Monday. Of course, we said, a couple of days is never an issue. Early Monday morning the agent emailed and said he was offended by her lack of response and was withdrawing his request.

I don't think I've ever been so floored. Never heard of that kind of nonsense before. We told her she'd dodged a bullet. She came to see it our way, but she was pretty shaken at first. She was only five minutes away from sending it.

And no, I don't know who the agent was, just that it was a man. He sounds like a prima donna anyway.

This is a case by case basis kind of thing. In most cases, one ought to inform the other agents of the pending offer before accepting. BUt if you know in advance that this agent is The Agent that you want to work with, then why not just take the offer?

We don't know what the situation is with this writer and the agent -- maybe they have a long history of looking for the right project together.

My agent and I went back and forth on three projects before I sent her one she thought she could sell. And when I sent it, she offered within half an hour.

It's weird how these things happen sometimes.

Hmm, I wonder if in hindsight, it was a clue that it took the author four days to send the sample pages. He/she didn't sound as radically exicted frothing at the mouth as I would have been.

Sorry Sara.

At the point when I got an offer of representation, I had two requests for partials from agents (that I had not yet responded to), one partial in an agent's hands, and one full manuscript in another agent's hands. (It was at the very beginning of my query process.)

The person I got the offer of representation from was my dream agent.

I informed the agent with the full that I had an offer of representation and got a rejection within minutes.

I scheduled a long phone conference with her; I discovered she got my book, and had good ideas for revisions before going on submissions, that she shared a philosophy with me on writing, and was someone I could work with. I accepted her offer and then informed all the other agents that I was withdrawing my materials.

I thought about doing otherwise, but ultimately it just didn't make sense. I could have gotten the other agents to read quickly, but once I felt like my dream agent "got" my book and was going to do the best she could for me, that was it. Why ask an agent to take hours and hours out of her busy day if I know I won't consider her? If I'd thought there was any chance I would consider the other handful of agents, I would have given them a shot.

It sucks for Sara, but in a case like that "faster" might not have helped.

The really good ones are going to be obvious to most agents, and will be snapped up quickly. Like a lot of things in publishing, sometimes it comes down to luck.

Maybe next time the luck will be on Sara's side.

I think you're a victim of other literary agencies that are too slow. Authors are forced to contact many agents at once; otherwise it would take years to go through them all.

That said, the author would have been wise not to accept the other agent's offer right away, and waited to hear back from you (and notified you that they've had an offer). Would you have been willing to give concenssions on your standard contract in order to land the author? Or would you drop the author for trying to wrangle a better deal?

Janet, I agree. She dodged a bullet. Sending out a manuscript within one business day of a request is incredibly fast. Most people I know respond within one week.

The guy sounds like a loon.

Wow, an unpublished writer turning the tables on an agent and bumming her out? Disappointing an agent with a small hint of rejection?

How novel.

Who is this innovator? I simply must buy his work when it comes out. Maybe I can get a signed copy...

That's okay, Sara-- you just go and reject the next thousand queries and show those unpublished weenies who's the boss! Vengeance is mine, sayeth the agent.

To me, a partial request doesn't indicate serious interest. I think the writer was right in going w/ the agent who wanted the full right away...I had an agent sit on a 20-pg partial for over two months until I nudged--at that rate, I'd be waiting forever (still am)...

Some agents request a partial with the query. Big deal. When agents constantly boast of how many tens of thousands of quotes they get a year, the numbers are against the unpublished writers; hence, they've got to query and query heavy. I know agents would like to live in that old fantasy world of "Query one agent at a time!", but the stone cold truth is not every agency has a fast turn around like Nelson Literary; anyone else ever wait six months for a form letter saying no?

Kudos for a ten day turn around, ladies. If everyone could be depended upon for such speed and consistency, we would be able to follow the old rules and go one agency at a time. And if only gas were free and carbon dioxide wasn't a pollutant...

Maggie -

How the heck was it tacky? The author found another agent and accepted representation. Then he or she notified Sara of such. The author covered his or her bases.

I'm sorry that Sara is disappointed, but at least the author didn't waste Sara's time.

Anon -- I think it's tacky because if the author was interested enough in Sara to query her, then she should've been interested enough to give her an opportunity to read and offer and give her two cents worth as well.

Just my thought on the matter -- obviously, as that's what I did. ;)

I know of another (otherwise reputable) agency who takes 6-8 months to read a query and either say no or request a partial. Come ON. Who wouldn't query multiple agencies with this going on?

There's also those web sites that say, "If we don't want it, you'll never hear anything." No, thank you. This is just poor business practice. I put all those agencies on my C list and never wound up sending them anything...I signed a year ago with the agent at the very top of my A list, who WAS into responses and businesslike things of that nature.

A couple of years ago, however, I received an e-mail, unsolicited, from an agency I'd never heard of, to whom I'd never sent anything. It rejected "my books" and wished me luck establishing representation elsewhere.

I sent an e-mail back saying that unfortunately I could not accept unsolicited rejections at that time, and since that was true, I now considered them my agency of record, and would expect the contract very shortly.

Don't think they were amused, though.

So where did Sara go wrong? She didn't ask for the full in the first place. She took six days to read the sample pages. Never mind when the writer uploaded it, that is her perogative.

Maybe Sara was busy with other clients. But don't cry when you find out another agent didn't wait. Obviously he/she was so impressed with the query that he must have asked for the full and read it promptly.

The writer did nothing wrong (other than write a great manuscript). It was not like YOU HAD A FULL AND INVESTED THE TIME IN READING IT. And even then, she'd still have the perogative to choose the agent she felt was best to sell her manuscript.

The only time an agent can cry foul is if the writer had signed with another agent and didn't bother to email the ones she was rejecting.

Now that it doesn't cost a writer for the paper and shipping, better to ask for the whole file if the query shows such promise. You have only yourselves to blame if you miss out.

Anonymous 1:44, as a writer you should brush up on reading for meaning. Nowhere in the post did Kristen blame the author or say she had done anything wrong. She was just expressing disappointment at the one that got away, especially because it got away at such speed. And why not? Writers lament quite publicly about these kinds of frustrations all the time. Them's just the breaks.

There was no need for a snooty comeback here. You're the only one assigning blame.

Boo hoo hoo--cry me a river! When will agents realize they're not the only fish in the sea?
A smart writer knows not to wait forever (or even 10 days) on a partial request when an offer is in the works. Way to go!

Janet, you may be a pastor's wife, but I don't appreciate the preaching here.

Anyone hoping to become a published author should know about subtext. I think you may have missed it.

I offered words of advice to Sara that I hope she takes to heart. Next time, she'll be able to snag that great catch in time and not be, as Kristin said, "hugely bummed."

Wishing everyone, agents and writers alike, success.

I think it must be very hard to be an agent.

Almost as hard as it is to have a finished manuscript you're desperate to find representation for : )

Seriously, thanks for a peek at the other side : ) : ) : )

Kristin, What a nightmare for the writer and potentially new agent! I hope this is a rare occurrence.

I appreciate your list of reasons why you, as an agent, would want this type of information. I've heard agents mention it's so they know how much a project has already been shopped, but these specifics illuminated some angles I hadn't considered before.

I've read multiple times that before signing with an agent, you should ask for a client list and possibly talk to some of those authors. Assuming that is acceptable protocol, it seems like it could be a good indicator of whether an agent is likely to give up on you after only a few attempts. (Of course, if they are, it'd be better to have a list of *former* clients and find out if this is why they parted ways.)

I always give verbatim feedback to authors within 24 hours of receiving it, but I don't give names, just imprints. If we part ways, I give out names only to the author's new agent. Same thing if I take on an author who has been previously represented: I ask the author if I may call his/her previous agent and get the info. I think it's better when it's agent-to-agent. As an agent, I feel more confident that I'm getting the right info, and I feel more comfortable giving the info to a fellow agent.

I'm pre-submission at the moment. Recently, my agent made an off-hand comment that we would be submitting to a strategic number of editors for a one round offer. A ONE ROUND OFFER?!? My little brain translated this to, "You're very low on my totem pole and since my giant agency just merged with another giant agency, I'll have little time to devote to you...unless you get sold."

Needless to say, I'm torn. On one hand, I feel a bit betrayed. On the other, I feel I owe him some loyalty for the extraordinary effort he's put into 2 line edits and one global. The book is much better for his involvement. I don't understand pouring months of effort into a book only to go for one round of submission.

Thanks for the post. It helps (a little).

- Sleepless in Alabama

@ Kristin: Do you provide that information to your own clients up front? Or only when requested?

@ Laurie: Speaking for myself, I would not feel comfortable with an agent that felt it appropriate to keep any information related directly to my work secret from me.

@Joseph: Totally with you on that. If the agent can't trust the client not to go bugging editors directly (arguing about rejections or whatever), then the agent doesn't need to be dealing with that client. A friendly, professional conversation about What Not To Do would work wonders in this situation.

IMO, it's vitally important for the client to know which editors have seen the work, not only from a shoppability standpoint (after a break-up) but also in case the client attends the same conference as an editor who read the manuscript. It'd be awkward as all hell if that editor came up and started talking to the client about the book and the client looked like an idiot for the first half of the conversation 'cause she was unaware the editor ever saw the project.

That would terminally piss me off, and I'd drop an agent for a stunt like that. It's my career, and I deserve to know what work is being done on my behalf.

Awesome post. I enjoyed reading it.

I think in thirteen years of operating P&E I've had only one agent name reported for failing to divulge where a manuscript was submitted. Thankfully, it was a scammer who was trying to avoid letting the author know that nothing had actually been done and the scammer was already not recommended by P&E.

Thanks for popping in Dave!! Most of the time, it's just that authors are too shy or scared to confront agents (and even former agents) about issues. Thanks for pointing that out.

As an agent, I feel more confident that I'm getting the right info, and I feel more comfortable giving the info to a fellow agent.This attitude bugs me on so many levels. It's like you think your clients (and writers in general) are so beneath you and other agents that they do not deserve to know which editors have seen their projects.

In case you've forgotten it's their career and their projects. They deserve to know.

Seems like the writer has to do so much of the legwork, why don't they sell it themselves? If only publishers would open up their slush piles and hire "slush readers" like agents do, then writers can be more in control of and more informed about their own works! Why are we often the last to know (and to be paid)?

Laurie,

Got to agree with the other commenters here. That wouldn't really help an author who was trying to *get* a new agent, especially if they only had the one manuscript and the agent's decision depended on knowing how much it had been shopped before taking the author on as a client.

Another post illustrating that getting an agent doesn't mean it's all roses from that point on!

Thanks for the post, Kristin, it's good to be prepared for all eventualities if the dream ever comes true. . .

OK, I fell in with a “new” agent about 8-9 years ago. She had 0 experience and sent my poorly-written, overlong MS too many editors, relying on the “AGENT” on her letterhead to get it looked at. She quit the business. I’ve spent the intervening time to learn more about the craft, and my much-revised MS is completely different and has a new name. Am I shopped around or not?

While I hope to never be in such a situation, I will remember your advice.

Sleepless in Alabama -- is that what ONE ROUND OFFER means?

I took it to mean that the agent is going to try to sell it in one round because she has three or four editors she knows will love it?

Am I wrong?

If Laurie doesn't trust her own clients with info on where a book has been (excuse me, it is THEIR book) then why is she an agent?

Good Lord, what is this industry coming to?

Check one off my agent list.

How can you check her off her list? We don't know her last name! (If you do know her last name, please share, as I'd like to check her off my list as well.)

I find it rather heartwarming that Kristin knows agents that have a story of a ms being rejected by 30 editors before it sells.

My question, where ARE these agents? Do they really exist?

I've been agented. After 10 rejects my agent (established agent/agency) was done. Now my book is shopped -- no other agent is going to want a book that's been to 10 editors. I'm screwed.

I know Kristin doesn't answer comments but can someone else tell me how many houses their own agents send to before they give up?

Anon 7:22 -- I'm assuming Laurie is her real first name... how many Laurie's can there be in the business, with that spelling?

@Anonymous 7.25 - but 10 rejects is nothing! Some of them may have rejected because it was great but too similar to other authors on their list. Or not right for now. Or they were just too busy to take it on. Can you do just as Kristin suggested, go back to your ex agent and ask for the names and the reasons? Even if they all hated it it is useful feedback for you.
My agent shared a lot of feedback with me, and although it was incredibly frustrating - whether it was a 'I loved it but..' or 'it's not right because' - it was all useful. And eventually (after more than 10 rejections) it all came right and a publisher offered a two book deal and it'll be their lead book in January. Don't give up.

Anon 8:31 -- (I'm 7:25) thanks for your reply. I had the feeling that 10 rejects was nothing. I actually do have the names that rejected it, but still don't feel I can offer it to another agent without writing a fresh book that hasn't been shopped yet.

I suppose I'll add to my list of Things to ask a Potential Agent: "How many places do you send to before giving up?"

And then run away screaming if they say, "Ten."

BIG HUGE CONGRATS on your two book deal! :)

My ex-agent was good at sending me the actual reject letters from the editors. But she only shopped it to seven before putting it on the back burner and losing interest. Needless to say, I eventually woke up and moved on. I have a new agent and first question to her was: how many rejections will you get before you give up on a book. Her answer: depends on the book but she said that seven seemed a pretty small number. We shall see. So far I'm pleased with her.

Dear Kristin,
I love your blog. I have learned so much from you! The agent/author relationship is such a mystery even now that I have an agent and I would love to hear your take on how things go down step by step. Once you take on an author what is your next step and what do you promise as far as the revision process? Thanks again!

Thank you so much, this is exactly what I'm going through right now. It is a huge relief to have someone offer advice in relation to it. You're the BEST!

Anon 7.25 - from Anon 8.31 - Can you at least try to get the feedback from the old agent? If all 10 said the same thing, then you can learn from that. If not - you've been unlucky. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Rejection is horrible, and this unfinished situation might affect your confidence with the next book.
But I am sure you can succeed - you have come very close. Good luck! And thanks for congrats.

Hey, you know who we should see another book from?

Paris Hilton. NO ONE hires a ghost writer like Paris Hilton.

Anonymoe!

Yikes! Just TODAY I got my submit list from my agent who just dumped me. It was a lot longer than ten. So I guess I should feel... okay about that?

H.

Hopeful - did you get feedback? Reasons? Never give up!

Ahh well I know a western and crime writer who is not represented.

A Google search for 'literary agent Laurie' comes up with five possibilities in the first page of results. So striking anyone off a list could be problematic for that reason alone....

It might be better for one's overall career path to put this issue on the list of 'questions I must ask agents when we are discussing representation'.

Laurie:

I am concerned about your practice of not giving this information to leaving clients, but only to the new agent. It is possible to imagine a number of unpleasant scenarios.

For one thing, it might take a couple of years to land a new agent. What if, in the meantime, you lost the records or even perhaps died?

Another scenario could happen as well: what if you give the records to the new agent, the client ends up eventually leaving that agent too, and that agent never gives the records to the client?

Kristin, once again, I must profess my undying gratitude to you. I've seen more than my share of retreads, and I couldn't figure out why I was seeing them again.

I always thought it was because the agent didn't keep good submission records. I never considered that the author had new representation and was working without a safety net.

I'll have my secretary, the unreliable beagle, mix you a fresh pitcher of margaritas.

Wow. A lot of negative comments here. I'm guessing that Laurie doesn't want to mess with a third party and goes straight to the source. Give her the benefit of the doubt.
Or at least the courage to post with your name and not anonymously.

Amber Argyle--

"Laurie doesn't want to mess with a third party?"

What?

Her client is not a THIRD PARTY. Clients are the only reason agents have books to sell to begin with. Her loyalty should be with her client, not a random editor. Wait until you are in the situation and then I bet you'll understand.

I post as an Anon because I don't have a blogger account, and my name is quite common, not because I'm a coward.

Kristin,

I wonder if you could clarify something. You suggest that if an editor rejects a manuscript submitted by your old agent, then leaves a publishing house, your new agent is free to resubmit to the same publisher without triggering the "agent of record" policy that often appears in agent/author agreements. I was under the impression that the first agent would be the agent of record for that publishing house exclusively.

My question is similar to Anonymous 5:55 AM -- my ms was shopped two years ago, and since then, I've done a mega revision on it. It has a completely -- miles and miles different -- main hook, a different title; I'd say 95% of the whole thing I've re-written from scratch. Still, some of the main character's names, settings and a couple subplots have been carried over. (Albeit revised.)

I'm about to part ways with my agent and query new ones.

At what point (if any?) do I say that a very, very different incarnation of this book was shopped 2 years ago?

Anon 2:35 AM, I would change the proper names and not say a word about it. If you've truly done that major an overhaul, then it's a different book, IMO, and changing character and place names will break the last ties to the old manuscript.

I was dealing with an nutso agent some years ago who "pre-shopped" my manuscript without my permission or any kind of agency agreement in place. I guess she was arrogant enough to assume that of COURSE I was going to accept her offer of representation, so she felt it was okay to go ahead and start pitching it. Uhhhh, no.

I pulled the manuscript from the market completely (including from another agent who would've been a great fit for it) and started over with a blank screen and a blinking cursor in the upper left corner. The central questions of the story and core conflict are the same, but everything else is different. Not one sentence remains from that original manuscript. I killed off some of my favorite scenes and descriptions in the process.

It was worth it, though. I learned a lot. I burned away everything that wasn't essential to where I was going with the story. And I'm not stuck with a psycho agent. :-)

I'm so glad you posted this--I hadn't realized there were different levels of meaning to the full manuscript reading. You're preparing me to keep it realistic no matter how far people read into my manuscript! :)

Kristin,
I love being able to read your blog and garner insights into the agent/editor's mind. It helps immensely from my perspective as an aspiring author.
Coming here each evening also helps me motivated, and I'm sure it's the same for many others.

Thanks for your contributions to the publishing cyber world!

Hi

I'm 'anonymous graphic designer' from this weekend. Thank you for a sensible and practical answer to my question.

Honestly, why you said you need a full manuscript did not surprise me. I mean, how many times have we read books that have wonderful beginnings, yet crappy endings? I totally understand what you mean.

I described a work in process sci-fi novel to a published author at a writing training. In a one-on-one session, he said that my story premise and opening scene had a lot of potential. Since I'm not published, I wonder if my writing skill is strong enough.

I wonder how much an agent is willing to work with an author on editing.

Again, fascinating. Someone you know passed on a partial of mine recently and after the initial let down, I took the "coaching" to heart and went straight back to work. That's what you have to do if you want to succeed in this business. I'm already feeling a thousand times better about my ms, so if you run across you-know-who, tell her I said, "thanks!."

Thank you for this and to me it seems like perfect common sense. Of course you would need to know the entire story and how it ends to know if you could sell it!

It makes sense to me. Thank you.

I think it's great that you take the time to offer advice/criticism, despite passing on a manuscript. But as for needing the full novel, that makes plenty of sense, anyone who doesn't get that, should read more books.

Thanks Kristin, for taking the time to post.

As newbie writers take time to learn their craft, from contact with your advice, I believe the quality of writing and story will improve, making your life easier.

This means you slush piles will be smaller, but the potential for greatness within, higher.

Great post. Makes sense!

Thank you so much for explaining it so thoroughly. I talk with a lot of writers who are working on their first novel and often times they don't realize how much work will go into it after they submit it. This helps give people a much clearer picture of just how much work this career really is and why it's important for the agent to read the entire manuscript before offering representation.

You're wonderful for taking so much time to help us new writers!

Wait a minute, so you're saying if I write a fabulous historical fiction set in the Revolutionary War but twenty pages from the end of the book, aliens come down from the sky and abduct the main character, that you might have a problem with that? No way!

It makes perfect sense for an agent to want to read the whole thing before signing an unknown. Who wouldn't want to be sure they can "bring it"? I also know that I didn't want to begin querying until I was certain I could deliver a decent ending to my first submittable manuscript - and honestly, it was the most difficult to write. Not that I didn't have lots of ideas that would work well, but more so because I wanted something a little unexpected - but still satisfying. It was sort of the choice between good, better and best. 'Cause yeah, I'm a nerdy perfectionist like that...

I'm so glad to read this. I have a manuscript out with an editor so it's nice to know what's going on while it's out of my hands...

I have slumping middle syndrome. The work I'm currently pitching is no exception, I learned recently to my chagrin. Revising now based on contest comments before sending full to Sara.

It's pretty easy to write three good chapters, but that's like watching an exciting movie trailer. The let down can be awful.

"And I can name two current clients who I asked to revise a full novel significantly before I offered representation."

That was my lucky day!

Very good to know, I'm actually hoping for something like that with my last submission, actually.

Yeah, I know that doesn't make too much sense, but that's how I roll.

Very cool. Congratulations to that author and the agent who signed her.

haven’t you ever notice that sometimes it’s the thought of starting the task that keeps you from diving in?

Oh yes, usually this is my biggest obstacle. Even if I can envision a scene perfectly in my head, I'll get intimidated thinking it will disappear before I have time to type it out/write it down, and spend a few minutes (at least) staring at the blank page before getting the nerve to dive in.

Glad to hear about recommending agents, especially for unpublished authors. Even if you do it rarely, it's comforting to know that it still happens on occasion.

I can vouch for this happening for THIS unpublished writer. :)

I sent a query and first chapter (as per guidelines) to an agent, who praised the writing but said it wasn't for her. However, she suggested I try another agent and said I could use her name as a referral. I'd already queried that agent but heard nothing, so it gave me the opportunity to give a polite 'nudge'... And after immediately requesting the full, 3 months later I have signed with her!

I was very happy to be able to write back to the referring agent, so she knew how things turned out. :)

I have to admit I was surprised to get an e-mail recently from an agent I very much respect. He had done something I was really impressed by and I thought, "I would love to have an agent like this." I commented on his blog about the need to start hanging out at blogs for agents who rep epic fantasy. He sent me an e-mail with recommendations for two agents. One I already had on my list, but the other was new and, indeed, a very good match.

Of course, it's entirely possible he was just trying to get me to leave his blog alone, but I prefer to think he was being a sweetheart.

"...It rarely works out when agents take on projects that aren't a good fit but they try anyway..."


If only other agents felt this way the industry would be a lot less chaotic. Because, sadly, other agents would absolutely take on this previously publised author to make a quick buck, only to have it fall apart somewhere down the road.

When an agent says, "Yes, I absolutely want you/this, lets work together" the writer thinks they actually mean it. Cruel world, this.

Kristin, apologies for an off-topic question, but: I always notice the "What's playing...?" bit you always include, just after the status report, at the top of each post. What happens to be playing seems to be random to me (I'd be astonished to see a song/artist appear above more than one entry). Just out of curiosity, is there a particular sort of music you listen to when you're working on queries, vs. working on partials or fulls or...?

(When writing, I know I cannot listen to anything at all vocal, unless it's something like Enya.)

Hi Kristin,

I love reading your blog and the comments for encouragement. I am glad you went the extra mile for an author who you knew wouldn't be a client. If everyone showed more consideration, this world would a nicer place.
Sometimes I get bummed out by how tough the publishing business can be and then I read through your blog. Thanks for cheering me up!

I'm glad to hear agents will help one another out like this, which does nothing but benefit those of us who are trying to get something published for the masses to consume.

I do have some questions regarding your post. Between this blog post and many others, it seems as if naming names (e.g.: author X is a client of agent Y) is almost taboo until the author's book hits the stands. At that time, the agent does a little marketing on the blog by announcing the book.

I have a question related to this. I am nearing the end of piece of work that I feel is similar in style and voice to a particular author. Something in my tiny little brain tells me if I can find that author's agent, then I may have a better shot at missing the rejection train. Is this even a viable, intelligent, and reasonable thought? If it is, then how do I go about finding out who represents certain authors? If my thought is totally off-base, then could you please explain why?

Thanks.

Beosig,

This is a good idea, if your book really matches the tone, style, etc. of an agent's client. You could add something to your query like, "Readers of Author X would like My Latest Novel, and I know you represent Author X." Not only will you personalize your query letter, you'll also be targeting appropriate agents for your work.

I wasn't clear if you're saying the work you think is in a similar style is not yet published, so you don't know who the agent is. If the soon-to-be published author has a website, you can use Google ("Author X" + agent), and may find it. Or you could spend a worthwhile $20 and go to Publisher's Marketplace where you may find info. But if the work is published, you could find that info by reading acknowledgments pages of published books, or you could go QueryTracker.net

Good luck.

- not Agent Kristin (who has mentioned that she usually doesn't field questions in the comments section)

It was certainly nice of you to help this published, much-talented author. However, since she is obviously made of awesome, it is quite likely that she would have found representation all on her own, just by querying widely.

Beosig-
You might try agentquery.com for some listings of agents and the books they represent, as well as an opportunity to find the agent of a particular author...and if you look up query letters on this site, author Jamie Ford caught Kristin's eye by using a similar comparison of his work to Amy Tan. She featured his as an example on this blog a while back. It worked for him--and you will be amazed at how well!

It happened for this unpublished writers, too. :) One wonderful agent requested my full manuscript, and when she emailed to say it wasn't quite right for her, she also asked if she could pass it along to someone she thought might be interested.

Of course, I said yes (having heard great things about the agent she was passing it to). He read it over Memorial weekend and made an offer on Tuesday. So yes, referrals happen, even for the unpubbed. :)

can't wait to read more about your process behind this. thanks for sharing great posts, as always!

I found this entry very reassuring. I must admit that I had thought that if there were plot or character issues in a book, that would be the end of the line for it. I am really pleased to know that you dig deeper.

Have you ever tried MSWord's comment feature, instead of Track Changes? It's ALT + I + M. I like it a lot better. It puts a little pink bubble on the right side of the page with your comment in it, with a line leading to the exact spot in the text it refers to. I like it because the comments are off to the side, not interfering with the continuity of the passage. Also, different readers can leave comments, and MSWord will automatically tag them by who left them.

Open Office has a similar feature, though I don't remember the shortcut off hand.

Thanks for this post! It's very helpful. I'm especially pleased with your explanation of how/why you do the types that you do. Perfect!

I'm glad to hear you do this. Not that I intend not to have the manuscript as good as I can get it, but I just assumed most agents today would pass if there were any problems.

Icarus - You can do that in track changes too. Tools>Options>Track Changes>Balloons. Just FYI.

Excellent post! I find that when I get near to submission (to an agent) I really do need someone else's eye on the manuscript. The way I figure it, having an agent willing to do some editing is icing =)

I think most writers like this type of edit.

Re: comment feature. On a Mac it's command-shift-a (for annotate).

An agent recently responded to a requested partial with lots of inserted comments (having to do with the protagonist) and an invite to rewrite and resubmit. I can't tell you how helpful that is, and how much we writers appreciate even the smallest of scraps that are thrown to us in the way of comments/editing help.

I once had an agent write a little comment in the margins of a form rejection that was really helpful - and very much appreciated.

I'm sure your clients are appreciative for the edits/feedback. And thanks for the blog - I've learned a lot from it!

The more feedback, the better! I guess since editors are now too busy to edit, agents are filling the breach.

Does anyone else beside me have trouble posting comments in Firefox? The "Leave your comment box" is too small to read the text, and there are no scroll bars. I have to use IE, which I dislike doing.

I'm really glad to know that ^.^

And, no, Karen, Firefox is fine with me...

Karen,

I'm using Firefox right now - no problems. The box isn't as big as my monitor (I don't think I'd want that anyway ;-)), and there are vertical scroll bars.

You might want to check the Mozilla site for the latest version, if you don't have it.

Other than that...not sure why you're having problems. (I hate Internet Exploder, too. :-))

Great post.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it's in the interests of the agent and the author to have the best (and most marketable) book possible before submitting it to publishers. Thanks for describing how you do this.

As for posting comments in Firefox, it is a small box, but if I fill up the box and keep typing, the vertical scroll bar appears; there's no scroll bar until I go past the bottom of the box. Good luck

I just blogged about the edit Kristin did last month on my first-time manuscript. She put a lot of work into it... so now I'm putting a lot of work into it!

Kristin, I totally understand your frustration and agree that your way is the way pitch sessions should be run. And what I'm about to say obviously doesn't apply to you. But I have been to conferences where the agent bios provided did NOT say what the agents were interested in, none of the agents had any web presence at all, and a poor writer would have had to hire a private detective to find out any useful information ahead of the conference! So I hope the conference organizers are reading this, because some of them have even more to learn than you think.

I totally agree. Actually, I was surprised to hear that so many paid the money to go to a pitch session without an actual finished product. It's just . . . pointless.

As for the "mini application," I squirmed when I saw the previous publication question. I'm an author with no credits to my name, and I plan on attending writers conferences and pitch sessions for that very reason.
It's hard enough to have the glaring empty author's bio on my querys. But, if an agent selected pitch sessions based on experience, I would feel, yet again, at a big disadvantage.

I can definitely see your point, as an agent and a business person; the problem lies with the nature of many writers' conferences. They are aimed at beginning or unpublished writers. Thus far I have not seen any with an application just to get into the conference- conferences for the published only, people with a good idea of what the biz is, what it means to be professional, and how careful they should be in choosing when and who to pitch.

Conferences are filled with newbs. There's no way around it. A lot of them will be going there just to practice pitching, and just to meet an agent for the first time. At my first conference, I was actually scheduled to meet Ms. Nelson for a pitch session-- I canceled when I realized that my pitch was faulty and I didn't yet have the confidence in my project that I should. I had enough experience in the business world to understand that wasting her time with a project I myself was iffy about wasn't very professional. And I am glad I had second thoughts, because at that very same conference I realized that there were tons of people present with much less sense than I had, and that has to be murder on agents & editors.

I have to agree that there should be a screening process for pitch sessions, but it should be limited to Title, Word Count, Finished or Not, and Genre. To add more makes it look as if the writer is querying, and frankly they did not have to spend the time and money on attending a conference to do that. New writers don't need to feel rejected when attending a conference, they get plenty of that at home.

This comment leads into a funny. Sometimes agent & editor appointments are set up so far in advance that it gives plenty of time for circumstances to change in the interim. I had an editor appointment set up in May, for a September conference. In the meantime, a different editor at the same house asked for a full. By the time of the Sept. conference, that full was still under consideration by Editor #2, leaving me with nothing to pitch Editor #1. Not Editor #1's fault. Hardly mine.

I sat down and said, "Hi, my name's Deb and I'm not trying to sell you a novel."

She brightened immediately! Which made me chuckle. I then explained the situation and asked her, "Do you mind if I ask you about today's romance market, instead of pitching you my books?"

She said, not at all, and we had a very productive chat, at least on my part.

It CAN work, but in very particular circumstances. Had this been an agent appointment, I'd have canceled and left it open for another writer who wasn't dangling between "send the full" and "here's the contract."

Amen. As someone who unsuccessfully pitched at a conference last weekend (not the same one you attended), I recommend that coordinators attempt to get the latest information from agents/editors on what they're looking for. I did as much research as I could prior to my appointment--perusing the editor's house website, googling for blog interviews, knowing a few authors whose work had been recently requested--and yet I got it all wrong. She's no longer looking for the type of manuscript I pitched. A waste a time for both of us--not to mention a personally depressing experience. I heard similar stories relating to other participants on both sides--mismatched genres all over the place. Too bad!

I was at the same conference that Jessica was at this past weekend. We had all day pitch sessions (ouch) and of those, I think I only got three pitches that were for completed projects, suitable for my company.

Of my other pitches I had two that were books still in the "idea" stage, two who wanted to ask me about how to become an editor or agent (and honest, I know very little about being an agent), two who had partially completed manuscripts that would be done in the next year, and one that was a partially completed manuscript of a book the author wasn't really entirely sure of the genre or what his book would be about.

It's...discouraging to sit all day and to have this happen. Like you, I think it would be wonderful to have some guidelines to be met before authors can sign up for pitches.

Thanks for this post. My local writing organization has a conference coming up, and I'm grumpy about the way the organizers handled it. In the conference info, they advertised all the attending agents as handling "all genres of fiction and non-fiction." This simply wasn't true. I knew that from a glance at their names, and a trip to Agent Query confirmed it. I was wary of signing up for a pitch session because I didn't want to wind up pitching my contemporary YA to the lit fic / serious non-fic agent, or to the mystery / thriller-specializing agent.

The other thing the organizers did was advertise in the e-mail that a critique appointment could lead to the agent offering you a contract. As in, on the spot! On the basis of a single chapter!

Ha.

All attendees had to do to sign up for a critique or pitch was send in their check. Critique pages aren't due until a few weeks before the conference. At the last meeting of this organization, one person confessed to me that she'd signed up for a critique, but hadn't yet written the pages she was going to have critiqued! And here I am with a completed manuscript, and I've been shut out of all sessions.

I suppose I'm still 10% bitter for my own sake, but mostly I'm annoyed that other writers with complete, ready-to-shop manuscripts may have gotten shut out of getting useful feedback.

Kristen, I have a suggestion, which may fall in that 'this may seem heartless' category, but would certainly aid those writers who are actually ready and prepared to pitch. If you get a person who is not pitching a full novel or a category you represent, then you get to respectfully stop the pitch session right there, hopefully after a minute or so. I could be wrong, but I believe there are usually folks who are on a wait list of some kind, hoping that someone who signed up doesn't show or what have you. If a session or two gets canned due to inappropriateness, then you have extra minutes at the end of the scheduled sessions to squeeze in one or more pitches that are actually ready for you. I think a lot of folks tend to forget that they aren't the only ones forking up some money to come to the conference, and hoping to get their money's worth.

JDuncan

I agree 100%-- targeted pitch sessions would be more efficient for everyone!

On the subject of word count, is there an ideal word count for YA books?

Well, I don't think that was harsh at all. I went to my first (and only) conference last year and felt so bad when I sat down at an agent appointment because my manuscript wasn't complete. I didn't realize before signing up that it should be, and he was really nice, but I felt like I was wasting his time. You have a great idea here. Conference newbies would never know to have a completed manuscript. And I did tons of research on publishing and the agent before I went. Thanks for the post! I read this blog everyday and, obviously, love it. :-)

It's also frustrating for authors who really want to meet with a particular agent, but there are other authors "just practicing" in my way! Argh!!!

Kristin, is there any chance you'd consider a conference pitch for a partial from a multi-pubbed author hoping to sell on proposal?
If so, a mini-application with the question about the manuscript being complete would rule that author out.

I've been guilty of taking a pitch appointment with an unfinished manuscript so I could get face time with an agent I'm really interested in. I did it because I was a Golden Heart finalist at the time and so had first crack at my choice of agent appointments at RWA National. Yet, I felt I couldn't pitch the agent in question my GH manuscript, because it's category and the agent doesn't generally represent category. I couldn't pitch her a full manuscript I'm currently marketing myself (and which I've recently revised at an editor's request) because the agent had seen sample pages for this project in an earlier incarnation and had already rejected them. I couldn't pitch my novellas, because I knew this agent prefers to hear pitches for single titles and then novellas can come later. So I just laid it all on the line about what I *couldn't* pitch to her, and we ended with that I'd be in contact when I finished my latest ST wip.

The problem? I write under two names, and a few weeks after National suddenly my pen name was hopping with editor requests (that had nothing to do with appointments at National). However, they were mainly novella requests. When I met the agent at National, I fully intended that my ST under my real name would be finished in the late fall and then I'd be in contact. But the truth was I wound up having to put away the manuscript to work on the other requested projects, which did lead to sales of those I've submitted so far, so it wasn't a bad choice.

The end result? I don't regret that I put aside the project I mentioned to the agent during our pitch session. But I feel really stupid for talking about a project I thought I could finish within the time frame I mentioned...and then I didn't finish it. Never mind that I sold other stuff myself in the meantime, I now totally agree with not pitching something until it's finished. I don't regret taking the appointment **for myself**, but I do feel like I wasted the agent's time and how will she feel about my submission when it finally comes?

Lesson learned

Wasting people's time is a two-way street.

Sure, it's bad for an agent to be pitched mss that aren't finished or in genres they don't represent.

But, it's also cruddy to for writer's who do have completed ms and have signed up for an agent/editor pitch session only to hear that same agent/editor shout out proudy during a Q&A panal that, heck no, they aren't looking for new clients. They haven't anyone from a writer's conference in ten years!


Um, then what are they doing there?

Usually these same agent/editors aren't participating in any other workshops, either. Way to waste everyone's time.

What if you're a published author with a track record of several books and decent sales? What would be the appropriate protocol there? If you're already selling on proposal or less, what would be helpful to an agent? A sample of a published book?

Thanks for the information. I've always been curious about the notion of "practicing" your pitch. Thanks for clarifying your feelings. I'm sure other agents feel the same. I'm planning a workshop with pitch sessions for the fall and will use your mini-application to weed out the practicers (is that a word?)

We want the writers to be successful in their pitch sessions, but we also want the agents to not feel like their time was wasted. Thanks again.

I'm glad this seems to be a popular subject. My novel will be finished and polished by the time I hit the conferences, but it's sad to hear people actually pitch ideas.

My main fear is not being able to communicate what Paladin is really about. That would still make it a waste of time for both agent and myself.

Seeing the different comments about conferences at least gives me an idea of what to expect.

Excuse my (honest) ignorance, but if you're an author with a track record, don't you have better ways to shop for an agent than plunking down twenty bucks at a local writers' conference?

-o-

I have a hypothetical question on this topic. What if I have a project in an area that an agent at a conference doesn't represent, but which is represented by one of that agent's partners? Is it okay to pitch something to an agent in the hopes that someone else at their agency might be interested in it? Like, say an agent mostly does romance, and I have a fantasy novel, but I know that one of the other agents in the agency represents fantasy?

Do you think an editor pitch session at a conference should meet the same criteria?

Loving the questions here on how to pitch an unfinished book when the post says, um, don't.

I purposely did not scheule a pitch session (with Kristin) at an upcoming conference because my manuscript is incomplete. Would I have liked to hear her say it's a great idea and she wanted to read it when it was finished? Sure, but that's not the purpose of a pitch session.

I'm going to the conference anyway, will sit in on Kristin's workshop and soak up the info and energy of the writers, editors and agents around me. I'll get my "first" writers conference under my belt, and come away, hopefully, restored and renewed and ready to finish and polish my work.

I think the problem with the conferences is that the "rules" are out there, but there are always those who think said rules most certainly do not apply to them.

Icarus; most conferences cost two or three hundred dollars. When you register for a good one, you find out in advance what agents and editors will be attending. You have some time to do research on each agency beforehand, narrowing your field. As for pitching someone who might know somebody who'd like your book... they don't work that way.

I've been a lurker for a while but want to add my comment today.

I go to agent pitches as much to see if an agent and I am compatible as to pitch my work. Those quick 'speed dating' minutes can tell me a lot about whether we would be a good match. I'm a published author and I am counting on my agent to take care of selling my work so I can keep being a published author. If we don't have the same general vision of the industry, I'd rather know, for both our sakes, before I sent anything to be evaluated.

I'm a published author and so far, I've sold my manuscripts on my own. (There's still a few romance houses who are good with unagented submissions.)But I would like to branch out and have more opportunities than I have now, being unagented.

So I take advantage of agent pitches even when I'm not ready to send in a manuscript to interveiw prospective agents. Kristin, I would greatly appreciate your opinion on using pitches for this purpose.

I agree. These slots are like gold, don't let just anyone get them. If I got shut out by the 'idea' guy... I'd be ticked.

I do have to agree with anon 1:10. Why would an agent do the Pitch session if they are not taking on new clients and have no thoughts or wants to do so? That one does confuse me.

However, pitching to an agent or editor with an unfinished manuscript or ‘idea’ only makes no sense to me.

That said, if you are a new writer or even a published author who is looking for an agent and your book is not complete then I have a great suggestion for you.

Volunteer to work the appointments. Hold on; don’t get too excited just yet. This is isn’t a ticket to pitch on your own. But you will be able to say hello and introduce yourself. That in itself is big. Take very good care of them, if they want to keep the appointments coming, then by all means do so. If they prefer to have the few extra minutes between pitches, honor it. Make sure they have water, coffee, or tea, something to drink. Talking for hours can be rough.

Now for what might happen. An editor or agent may ask you to sit down when they have a break and pitch your book. By all means be prepared for this in case it happens.

Above all else be honest with them if they do. Tell them your book is not finished, or it’s still in the idea stage. If they ask you to pitch it anyway, take a deep breathe, smile, and pitch your baby.

This happened to me last year at Nationals. My current book was not yet complete and when I was asked to sit down and pitch it to an editor, I told her that. She asked me to pitch anyway. And yes, she did ask me to send it to her once finished if it met their guidelines (word count).

All of this said (yes, I know it is long), do not volunteer and then pitch without being asked to. The editors and agents are on a very tight schedule. They have limited time for the pitch sessions and more often then not, have scheduled appointments with their clients from there.

I have a question.
One of the things that's been suggested to me is don't just have one thing to pitch.
So, I have a romantic suspense to pitch that's finished BUT the agent isn't very interested. THEN I pitch an erotic book that's started (but not finished)
Is that "bad form"? I'm curious because I'd like to sign up to pitch, but I don't want to screw it up.

Maybe this is because I'm now looking at this from the other side of a couple of book contracts, but this boggles my mind. I agree with Kristin 100% -- if you're pitching at a conference, you should be at the same level of completion you would be for a query letter. Would you send an agent a "practice" query letter?

Uh, no. Because that agent is going to remember your name -- even more so I would think in a pitch session when there's a face to go with it -- and if you show up and waste their time with an unfinished proposal, it screams "unprofessional."

Anon 1:28, I got my (wonderful) agent after I had a book contract and wanted someone to represent the sequel. I don't see the point in going to a conference at that stage -- I just shot off e-mail queries to my favorite agents that I'd researched and had an agent in a few weeks. Why spend money and take up a slot that someone else who was still trying to get their foot in the door could use? Yes, the project that was currently on the table was incomplete. But I did have a track record of finished pieces and the editor was looking to sign on a proposal.

So Kristin, I think you could absolutely be harsher! Unless you have an editor breathing down your neck for your three chapters and synopsis, FINISH THE BOOK!

There are so many resources online that say the same thing -- there's no excuse for going unprepared or thinking you're above the guidelines.

Ahem. End rant.

Kristin,

I totally agree with you. Why pitch if you only have an idea. When I do my online conference, I offer online pitches. I make sure the pitch is correct for the agent/editor and I also make sure its finished.

I like your list and will use it for my next conference.

Acually, I feel better about a recent pitch session I had after reading this. It made me realised I'd done several things right.

I'd like to point out that at many conferences, when attendees send in their fees and paperwork, they are told that they may pay $25 (or whatever) extra for a pitch appointment, BUT that the way it works is that you list your choices 1, 2, and 3, and IF there are any slots left with those agents, you'll get one . . . otherwise, you'll go on the waiting list. Now, in practice (and I am sure I'm not "outing" anyone here), the staff members who organize the con will select their own choices first, and then the people in their local organization (for example, the Dallas RWA or MWA or whoever is putting on the show) will have priority, and then the Golden Heart or Lead Foot finalists. ONLY THEN will your average conference attendee who isn't in one of those groups get slotted in. This is how you get people pitching a mystery to an agent who really hasn't ever repped any mystery--the attendee felt he/she had to list three choices, and there were only two agents who repped mystery. Occasionally there will be a cancellation by an agent who has had a crisis and cannot attend, and if someone fills in, this may also cause a genre mismatch (because the writers are still hoping to talk to an agent and see what color their scales and fins are and what flavor of fire they breathe. *GRIN*) Writers really aren't trying for a mismatch when they sign up for the pitch appointments; it's just a consequence of the way the system works. At larger conferences, it's worse. Smaller cons may work better for pitching, actually.

That said, I was at the Dallas RWA conference a couple of weekends ago, and the agent I was matched with was a really good match for me! She was my first choice, but that was serendipity, as I couldn't find out that much about her other than she had sold a number of YA series novels and was open to mysteries and chick lit/women's fiction.

Agents should not be put into those little rooms and have writers herded at them every eight minutes for four hours at a stretch, IMHO. That's what generally happens, and I don't know how they survive it. I know the organizers are trying to keep agents on as many panels as possible and still have pitch appointments, but wow . . . maybe the pitch appts should be in the bar, so agents could "relieve stress" when needed. *GRIN*

This year I tried something different. Instead of having a little index card and reading a sentence or two about my book off of that as my palms sweated, I walked in and started talking about the area of Texas we're in and its interesting qualities and how it's a tourist attraction . . . and then explained that this is the reason I set my murder mystery at the attraction! Because aren't you tired of reading all those scenes of cell phone calls, driving the car, and talking heads in some restaurant or bar? My scenes are set in a hot-air balloon, inside a tortilla factory, and in the desert on the viewing platform for the Marfa Mystery Lights. This seemed far more interesting and more fun as far as a talk with the agent went. (Those read-off-the-synopsis things must be awful for agents.) We discussed the area and places the agent might want to hit while she's in Texas. It gave both of us much more of an idea whether we'd be compatible working together than one of those awkward read-aloud sessions. I recommend this conversational approach to all of you who pitch!

Thanks for the info. This gave me an idea on life as a writer. I have been thinking of it as a part time job.

You might be interested in the Young Entrepreneur Society from the www.YoungEntrepreneurSociety.com. A great documentary about successful entrepreneurs.

Whew! Am finally getting caught up on old blog posts after a crazy month. Just wanted to tell you that this makes sense. Yes, it may be more work for the people running the conference, but in the long run I think it could benefit everyone, including the organizers. After all, when agents find out that they have such stipulations for appointments, I imagine some of them may be more likely to attend. This can make it easier to find agents and can raise the overall caliber of the conference.