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That was…really too long an exchange of Twitters to digest for an article. I would have found a summary with one or two excerpted tweets more effective.

And, not to ignore the wider problem this article presents but enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know…will Batman ’66 and Sensation will continue to be released digitally, or will they be cancelled as well as the floppy reprints?

DC is still publishing comic books? ;)

Hi John,

Thanks for your comment. I got overzealous with the tweets– didn’t realize how long the conversation was because it seemed much shorter in my head! I’ve parred them down some.

According to solicits, the December issues for these titles will be the final issues for all formats. I will look into this further and clarify if I hear anything to the contrary.

I doubt that the Digital First comics will continue.
The numbers seem to have been calculated from “can we sell enough via digital + paper + graphic novel?”
If those numbers don’t add up to a profit, then it’s not going to continue with just one format.
In the old days, it was “newsstand + direct market + subscriptions”. Many marginal titles had better profits when newsstand copies were omitted (Ka-Zar, Micronauts, Moon Knight).

How well did DC market these new titles?
Why did Ms. Marvel become an overnight sensation, but not Prez?

I see the point TalesOfRacShade is making — I’m one of (I assume) many people who pick stuff up late, or purchase and then read late. I picked up a couple of the relaunched titles in June and didn’t get to reading any of them until Labor Day. (That’s what happens when your to-read pile is taller than the nightstand it sits on.) Now I’m going back to catch up on the ones I liked, but the damage has been done and the books that didn’t show strong interest by August will be canceled. Because most books simply don’t get a fighting chance, they’re often gone by the time their audience finds them.

It’s just the nature of the beast, though. I think it’s more of a general issue with monthly superhero comics and its sales channels than any bad decisions made at DC.

A lot of ground covered here:

Sad to see both Batman ’66 and Sensation Comics go. I bought both occasionally, but they were pretty confused packages.

The Batman book had the trappings of the TV show and good likenesses of the actors involved, but *unlike* the show it was played straight, not camp. So what audience was this for? I assume the nostalgia crowd (and in this day and age, that can’t be a very big crowd), but then it didn’t go all in. Sort of like putting on a production of Grease and taking out the songs. The stories were fine, but without the parody, it ended up being pretty mild (though the Kevin Smith/Ty Templeton mini with the Green Hornet was fun and the Len Wein/Harlan Ellison/Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez special was quite beautiful.)

Sensation Comics had a similar schizophrenic profile. Some of the best, accessible, all-ages Wonder Woman stories in a long time, unfortunately behind covers that often portrayed The Amazon Princess as a crazed warrior splattered with blood. I know covers in comics have a long history of not reflecting the exact contents, but I can’t imagine the audience for either one of those types of books being satisfied with that combination.

It makes me both sad and angry to hear these stories of sexual harassment behind the scenes. Especially when it involves people who are working on characters that are supposed to be heroes — examples of our best ideals, not our worst demons. DC, if this is going on, please get to the bottom of it and root it out. Not only for the sake of your workplace, but for Superman, Wonder Woman and all the other inspiring icons that the world looks up to.

And Torsten, I think Ms. Marvel had the advantage of a lot of media coverage outside of comics *and* being a superhero comic in the Marvel Universe. Prez is on its’ own in its’ own little corner of the world with no capes and tights.

The problem with DC is that they don’t give the smaller books a big marketing push. Although, I did notice that there was some attempt for The Omega Men with it having a big spread in the back pages for a month or two. Hopefully this is the kind of title that does alright in TPB and warrants a new miniseries in the not too distant future.

All of the Digital First titles have had limited lifespans, such as Adventures of Superman and Legends of the Dark Knight. Sensation had 48 digital weekly releases. That’s no small potatoes. After each one wraps up, a new one with a new character comes around the corner. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Flash or GL anthology Digital First series next up to bat.

For the record, Cullen Bunn confirmed on Twitter that “Lost Army” ends with issue six.

@Hardy: Ouch. So Lost Army wasn’t just cancelled; it was stealth cancelled. That must hit hard for the creators, to say nothing of readers who invested in the story.

Yeah, the Omega Men news hit me kind of hard, particularly after having been geared up for a twelve-issue run with a clearly laid out beginning, middle, and end. Add my voice to the choir of being cheated as a reader to be paying money for what will never be more than half a story.

And Alex DeCampi’s remarks just make me sad as a consumer. I loved Sensation Comics for its diverse storytelling, its introducing me to the work of a number of spectacular creators, and its being the iconic Wonder Woman book that I’ve felt had been missing from the stands since Gail Simone’s run on the title ended. (Azzarello and Chiang are a good “alternate” take, but separated from their storytelling, the N52 character is Generic Warrior Woman #49, not Wonder Woman.) Agreed with the poster who lamented the covers never matching the tone. That’s been a real sticking point for me with the book.

Basically, what made Sensation distinct is that between its covers, it was a feminist book. De Campi’s revelations about the Superman office at DC… I sincerely wish I could say I were surprised to hear her statements out loud. And it saddens me. The DiDio / Lee / Harras regime needs to topple. It feels to me like they set this new direction up for failure from the get-go, between the timing, the horrifyingly awful marketing, and now the company’s failure to see through on their own promises to their readers…

Is there any good news to come out of DC? I mean… Batgirl, Black Canary, and Doctor Fate are cool, and they’re still going. There’s that, right…?

The job of lettering has changed pretty profoundly since 1978, become less time-and-labor intensive than it once was (in a way that that writing, penciling, and inking have not) so it isn’t surprising that it’s been devalued.

Here’s the deal, and basic economics, say you raise the rates of these creators (and believe me, I have a lot of sympathy, as I’m a creator, too), you have to raise the price of the material compensate for that, and when prices rise, buyers cut back, you lose sales. The end. It’s a terrible catch-22 with no fix. There will always be us grunts who will suffer for our art.

Personally I find myself hustling non stop to make a living as an artist. Small press children’s book here, small press comic book there, commissions, print sales at conventions, and my own comic book… which just about breaks even but only because I can do all of it myself. Once I start hiring out parts of it, the story changes.

But – there seem to be a LOT more people now cranking out GOOD QUALITY STUFF than what I remember, growing up in the 80s and 90s. So dollars are spread around a bigger pool of comics. Which is great for the comics fan…. doesn’t bode well for the moneymaking aspects of the indie cartoonist but, honestly, how many of us are in it for the money??

This isn’t necessarily true:
Basic economics… say[s] you raise the rates of these creators (and believe me, I have a lot of sympathy, as I’m a creator, too), you have to raise the price of the material compensate for that…
Creators are one paycheck of many in comics. You could pay creators more if you paid company executives, editors and other non-creatives less. Or maybe if you paid creators more you’d get a better product, which could perhaps sell more?

Trans? You decided to force Transgender into the article about if comic artists make enough money? Maybe when you ask why you are not making enough money as a writer, Heidi, you will realize it’s because you get too distracted to stay on topic.

A lot of factors to consider here regarding the relatively low wages, such as supply and demand (i.e., the number of people wishing to break in versus the number of available spots, let alone how much money publishers make), historical lack of union representation/advocacy, etc. And how does this compare with other arts-related fields? For example, one always hears how little money most actors make, except for the top tier of stars. And they DO have union representation in many cases.

Perhaps you’re too distracted to understand the topic, Rich.

If there was any truth to the whole “rising rates means rising the produt’s price” angle, then serious publishers of both books and magazines would be paying a lot less than they actually do… but they don’t.
The problem is, in comics you got a bunch of small companies pretending their business and readership is bigger than it really is, demanding top level results, but not really able to pay top dollar for it; so instead they become meat grinders for young men and women who don’t know any better, or those who like to think a person should invest his/her time/life for the enjoyment comics alone bring.
This isn’t new by any chance, but the law of the land in comics world.

Who are the people making the money in comic books? Note to Rich: Stop being so mean. Transgender is pervasive. Welcome to the Twenty-First Century!

As for the supply and demand aspect Randy mentions, the sad truth is in an industry fueled by fans and geared towards them as their main audience, no publisher would risk alienating all the fans who want to turn pro by telling them that the number of people wishing to break is far greater than the number of available work spots… it is far mor convenient to keep them hopeful and standing in line at comic-conventions portfolio reviews, so they’ll keep buying.

There are always more people who want to make comics than there are available opportunities. So, the pay is low. It’s that way in much of the arts. And that’s terrible, of course. We are people who are so passionate about our creative work that we’ll do it 20 hours a day for very little pay. You don’t see bridge engineers sending a cash deposit to apply for an apprenticeship, or interning for free. But again, that’s the Arts.

As a reality check on those 1978 “recommended rates” by the (never actually formed?) “Comic Book Creators Guild”, we know by his 1977 contract (made public through being involved in a lawsuit) that Steve Gerber’s rate at Marvel at the time was $26.50 per page, and when he signed that contract Gerber was as hot a name as a writer in comics at the time could be, so I’m sure getting close to the top rate offered. So that $100 per page that the “Guild” recommended was 4x what was realistic, and the other rates are probably similarly inflated (never mind that a 25% of original rate for foreign rights was compared to the 0% that most publishers at the time offered, and the 50% of original rate for reprints was probably closer to 10% for those few publishers that paid anything for reprints).

@Doug — when you look at some of the actual numbers behind publishing projects, though, you see that there’s almost never that one to one relationship between the creative costs and the net loss/gain, especially with page rates. A million dollar advance, sure, that could kill a profit margin, but paying an artist an extra $1,000 for their work won’t make a dent in a serious publisher’s bottom line (but it would mean the end of poverty for some artists).

The main reason creators get paid so little is because publishers don’t value their contribution as highly as the marketing and sales and other home office staff. That doesn’t mean they’re evil, it just means they see the other stuff as more necessary, maybe higher skilled, less easy to replace. You can easily build a spreadsheet around a fair wage for creators — heck, maybe even a salary — because those costs are small compared to your more dramatic cost savings from reducing page count or changing printers or selling more books (which few comics publishers actually try to do).

Just wondering if the income for creators is any better at companies like Image where the creators have a better deal with their creator-owned material?

“You don’t see bridge engineers sending a cash deposit to apply for an apprenticeship, or interning for free.”

I don’t know about engineers in particular, but in the current job market there are a lot of non-BFA college grads who resort to interning for free.

* rabble-rouser
a person who speaks with the intention of inflaming the emotions of a crowd of people, typically for political reasons

Paragraph 1: “The Phoenix Comicon pro-actively sends emails with links and forms provided so this wouldn’t be an issue.”

“I was told to go get my city sales license, and I just ignored it. That’s what I normally do…. I got a little bit grumpy because I thought that the least the convention can do is email us beforehand and warn us, or simply apart of the table fee.”

So she was told and ignored it, but then was still annoyed with the con—that sent out advance warnings and form links. Maybe she should have checked her e-mail…?

I always check with cons about sales tax licenses because odds are good the tax people will always show up, especially since pop-culture cons like NYCC and SDCC have proven there’s money to be made; the states want their cut, even if it’s a few dollars. If the con doesn’t provide the information on their site, I ask what tax bureau I should contact to apply. I had to get a sales tax license just to sell in my own state (NY). It’s just normal business.

I want to believe this is one of those cases where being quoted in print (or its digital form) makes the person come off worse than would be the case in conversation. But, yeah, de Campi does sound almost willfully unaware about some fundamentals of convention selling. That she chose to turn her unpreparedness into upside for the good work the Hero Initiative does is definitely great, but her underlying problem being unready for mercantile capitalism are (as she seems to acknowledge) entirely her own.

If Alex de Campi is a progressive/liberal then why is she trying to get out of paying taxes?

If you’re an artist just hoping to make back the cost of going to a convention and usually making no more than that, getting a sales tax license in dozens of localities is a colossal hassle. Anyone who’s had to do it will tell you some cities’ and states’ licenses and taxes take almost as many hours to apply for and file than you’d spend actually working at the show. A lot of tax hungry districts are going after cons and craft shows, many of whose out-of-town artisans just won’t show up any more.

If getting the fee and the $3.62 in sales taxes from creators really is that important, the zillion different tax authorities really ought to get a single national one stop clearing house for filing all cities and states at once. But that’s science fiction.

The taxes in Arizona are primarily going to the privatized prison system. Schools are closing, bridges are crumbling, and various areas aren’t getting the funding they deserve. If a creator is going to make a couple of hundred books, then i say who cares.

You must be new to the Untied States, Rokan. :)

@Henry – So deprive them of further taxes and retreat? That’s pretty lame. It would appear she was given the info and ‘ignored it’. Most business people don’t/can’t do that.

Must we insist that every creator be a business? Must every guitar player on the street pay taxes on what falls into his or her case? Should we not, as a society, realize that artists’ time is better spent creating art? Or do we declare it just another commodity?

Then do what she did and give it away and continue to do so. Making money off it and NOT paying taxes is antithetical to making money in a shared economy.

We will have to disagree. What artists contribute to society is well worth public subsidy. If the government won’t pay them all a living wage, what they create should at least be free from taxation.

I always thought people who tried avoiding taxes are deadbeats. It’s okay for the rest of us but some people feel they are above the common people and don’t have to contribute. Cheapskates.

Ooh, this had totally passed me by! Must get, it looks fabulous.