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This is why I’m reasonably certain that when archaeologists dig up America in 4000 years, they are going to think that we thought superheros were real and we worshiped them as gods.

Eh… it balances the bad karma from this:
http://www.pophistorydig.com/topics/tag/port-authority-jackie-gleason-statue/
Ralph Kramden and Jackie Gleason who both lived at 328 Chauncey Street, in Bed Stuy.
Yes, Ralph drove a city bus (Madison Avenue), not a Port Authority coach. Tell that to Viacom/TV Land…

It joins a long line of fictional character statues, even of comics characters…

Apparently Heidi is learning from the Outhousers with lines like this

When the statue reaches its final destination it can become shrine of sorts for garbage, dog poop, graffiti, flaming dumpsters and other protests over Marvel’s shitty behavior over the years.

Not sure that was necessary in an article about a statue but hey what do I know?

I’m a Captain America fan an all that but really a corporate brand permanently placed in a public park? Plus, I was a bit unsure about the Brooklyn thing, now it turns out Cap wasn’t from Brooklyn anyway. Oh well, no need letting facts get in the way of a good story.

To be a worthy statue it would have to be from the original Kirby design, anyway,

It’s depressing how often these things are clear in hindsight. Leibel dumped his pregnant wife, leaving her & his other child; had sexual assault charges brought up by another woman & wound up murdering a third.

This after his “concepts” of exploring the nature of evil via “Syndrome”. From its summary: “With the help of a naïve Hollywood actress, a tormented motion picture director, and a condemned serial killer..”

Ya notice that the actress is naive? All the better to murder her.

This all makes me want to scrub my eyeballs & brain from having read it.

“Cap has been evil before and he’ll be evil again.”

Captain American has not been evil before. He’s been brainwashed, manipulated, impersonated and mistaken. He’s never been evil. Or least he never was when I was reading Marvel Comics, which admittedly stopped back in the early to mid 2000s. So I guess I can’t speak to much after that or about any continuity changes made that would explain how, for example, Hydra would even have been a thing in 1930s/40s America since it was actually created by Baron Strucker in World War II-era Japan.

And for anyone who doesn’t think this whole thing is stupid and lame, what do you think the reaction would be if “The Walking Dead” came out with an episode this fall where they revealed that Rick Grimes has secretly been the scientist responsible for the zombie plague all along?

If anything can happen, then nothing that happens can mean anything.

Mike

Totally agree with MIke’s comment (above)..

As a writer, I like to think that if I were given the awesome privilege of writing a story for a character who has been around for 70+ years or more, I wouldn’t take the opportunity to totally screw up who he is and what he’s about. That is what bothers me the most. They sacrificed Cap’s character and his legacy for the sake of a stupid story that will “get people talking!” and supposedly make them money.

“If anything can happen, then nothing that happens can mean anything.”

Nobody tell him about the magic time travel bullets.

Holy fuck, there is no sacrificing of legacy. It’s obviously going to be a fakeout. Have you brain donors read a comic before?

It’s ridiculous for people to get angry over what is obviously a gimmick designed to get media attention and (hopefully) beef up sales. Didn’t we learn from the “death of Superman” (and later the “death of Captain America”) not to take these “shocking” twists seriously?

Mike said: “Captain American has not been evil before. He’s been brainwashed, manipulated, impersonated and mistaken. He’s never been evil. Or least he never was when I was reading Marvel Comics, which admittedly stopped back in the early to mid 2000s.”

Mike is utterly correct. Cap was brainwashed in that Lee-Kirby story where he salutes Hitler. I stopped reading Captain America in 1996 (after Rob Liefeld’s first issue), so I can’t speak to the last 20 years of Cap. But the character was never evil when I was reading the book.

“There’ve been other stories where he’s been a Nazi/Hydra agent … those were not attempted at a time when racial hatred were already at a recent high, specificlly in the context of addressing that heightened racial hatred.”

Kirby’s Cap-as-Nazi story was drawn in 1965, in the middle of the Civil Rights movement, when racial hatred was at a much greater high than it is now, with much greater repercussion than there are now.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t be outraged by that recent panel if they want to be outraged, but why aren’t they equally (or more!) outraged by the Kirby panel? At that point the Holocaust was only slightly further in the past than 9/11 is to us now.

Heidi, I love this piece! You framed the discussion around this story so well.

In the 15ish years I’ve been a comic book internet human, I don’t remember seeing people incensed about a comic book while invoking so much… I dunno, ethical high ground? It’s a bit surreal. Fun to see people argue it, though!

I really love how Marvel’s marketing bit them on the ass this time. But it’s also one of those any press = good press sorta things, I guess.

Still, it’s been a while since they had this kind of backlash! Probably since the Jemas days, right? Or maybe Joe Q’s Spider-Divorce was like this too and I’m not remembering it well.

“You voted with your attention and hate won.”

For what it is worth (little?) we sold roughly 4x the copies of REBIRTH on Wednesday than we did of the new CAPTAIN AMERICA, so I’m not sure that this is an accurate hot take.

-B

^^^

I think the writer forgets that Captain America just had a worldwide blockbuster success in the cinemas, and people know him from not just the comic books – who have also been joining in this discussion. Of course it will seem like it’s more popular, when Rebirth only really effects long time DC fans.

I think what everyone else is forgetting is that the issue you’re all talking about with the Hitler salute panel, is in tales #67. The cover for that story SETS UP the premise, doesn’t leave it till the end, and the cliffhanger, so to speak, is not on the topic of HOW this could be the case, because it is completely explained within the pages of the book, but how Bucky is going to rescue Cap. A completely different problem. No one tricked anyone, in fact the COVER was the selling point – when covers were used to tease the inside of a book, not just look pretty.

I don’t buy DC’s love and optimism because I feel that their efforts are empty and hollow. It’s a show, and it’s a show that they aren’t even very earnest about.

I also don’t buy Marvel’s kayfabe in telling us “Yeah, Cap’s evil, always was,” but I don’t know why kayfabe is necessary at all.

Psst….
http://www.comic-salon.de/
Erlangen, Germany. Running since 1984. They are very accommodating to English speakers (it’s a university town), and they have a good mix of programming.
26.-29. May. Arrive early in the week, and you can partake of the oldest beer festival in Germany, the Bergkirchweih. (The natural refrigeration of the local hills is perfect for storing beer!) 12.-23. May.

Except that this movie (TFA) is really well done. The actors are great, the story is good, the CGI is 21st century, there is no input from George ‘franchise killer’ Lucas and, wait for it…. Jar Jar is nowhere to be seen!!!

If you don’t know why the bad guys are on that planet in the beginning then you clearly weren’t paying attention to the movie

swing and a miss, or something

No, it’s a retread of the original Star Wars. A pretty shameless one, but it seems to be working.

“Except that this movie (TFA) is really well done.”

Except that wasn’t the focus of the article. Oops.

Was someone actually paid to write that?

Here a more interesting topic. What does it say about the future of movies and movie-making that the 3 biggest box office successes (not adjusted for inflation) are films where a high level of skill was applied to utterly formulaic melodramas?

Mike

What it says is that TV is the future of the medium. Because hollywood’s photocopiers must sooner or later run out of toner.

The point is, those that argue that TFA is lifted from the original star wars would be just as reasonable in saying that it was lifted from the Phantom Menace. This satirical article is highlighting the manipulation and cherry picking that needs to be made in satisfying the former argument by using it to equate phantom menace, which people do not complain about being too similar to the originals (they complain about other things) to the new movie.

Or you could look at it like this.

Random droid with important map installed in it, wonders a sandy planet.
Main character happens to find said droid
Main characters flee an attack in a “piece of junk/garbage” spaceship that just so happens to be the Millennium Falcon.
Bad guys have a Death Star, an Emperor/Supreme Leader and main bad guy who wears a back, helmet like mask. Which is totally fine cuz we already we already who his super favorite sith lord is in the trailer
Main characters meet up with rebel’s / resistance, and find out that said death star has a weak point and plan an attack with x-wings. at least Naboo fighters where new.
One of the main characters is killed by one of the main bad guys as the main character looks on and shout’s “Nooooooo”….. Oh wait Obi Wan did that when Qui-Gon got killed.. Nah Obi Wan was killed and Luke shouted Nooooo… or did Darth Vader say it in III? such confusion.
Death Star blows up Alderaan and a bunch of other planets cuz the new Death Star is a planet, that absorbs mass from stars so it can shoot cause something or whatever.
Death Star gets blown up.

I think rhyming was what Lucas called it when he made his prequels, they mirror a lot on the originals. Personally I just thought this film had more of a IV vibe going put that’s just me.

It all just boils down to a certain point of view, point of view? point of view.

“The point is, those that argue that TFA is lifted from the original star wars would be just as reasonable in saying that it was lifted from the Phantom Menace.”

That’s a stupid point because it’s NOT TRUE.

The similarities with the original Star Wars are clear and concrete, both plot-wise and in the emotional beats of the story. The comparisons made with Phantom Menace in the article are vague and obtuse to the point of being ridiculous. For example…

“They need to find a new ship or repair parts so they can get off this planet”
.
The reason why they go to Maz Kanata’s planet in TFA has nothing to do with they they go to Tatooine in the Phantom Menace. Literally. Nothing.

Again, did someone get paid to write that?

Mike

[…] THE LAST UNICORN Author Peter S. Beagle Sues Business Manager for Elder Abuse The original report had already cost him an opportunity to purchase life insurance, and damaged his self-esteem considerably.” Beagle's children have apparently cosigned the statement on Cochran's Conlan Press website, which claims that Beagle's … Read more on Comics Beat […]

[…] am also curious as to the timing of everything, since Conlan Press is being sued by Peter S. Beagle.  While I am grateful to finally have my money back, I do find the timing of it all suspicious […]

Frank is allowed to have any and all opinions about his own creation that he wishes to express. I was in the room when he created her. He knew what he was getting into and he had a plan. Some of that plan came to fruition. True, promises were made. But the ownership of Marvel changed, Frank moved on to DC, etc. Things changed.

I have a personal attachment to Elektra, too. I provided her last name. I helped conceptualize her costume. I was there.

Time and commercialization march on. Frank — and every other commenter on the internet — has an opinion about it. Fine. Bring it. You’re allowed.

Well, I don’t understand the usefulness of this paper. I thought at one point that Miller would have added why he doesn’t like the TV version of Elektra. But no, nothing.

Of course, we can enjoy whatever we want, I agree on that but was an article (this long) needed ?

Elektra is my top, most favourite comic book character. I give Mr. Miller his due and I always will. However, excusing dismissive comments that affect real people (the actors themselves, other creatives given control of the character) is never going to happen with me. What he said wasn’t very nice and saying so isn’t an opinion, simply stating what should be obvious.

Him being Elektra’s “father” and all, you’d think he’d have her best interests at heart and let her go. Us simply folk are capable of seeing the character in different stories, in different universes, and still be able to determine who the “real” Elektra is. Having the character participate in an incredibly successful show is a good thing. Throwing shade on it is not just sour grapes, but immature and weirdly possessive. Elektra belongs to Marvel, not Mr. Miller. All due respect, of course.

Miller did create Elektra! And that gives him protective rights all the way. No creator is required to love an adaptation of their work, whether it’s deliberate (creator controlled work) or via the work for hire framework of mainstream comics.

I don’t know if you intend “work-for-hire” to mean that Miller created Elektra on a freelance basis for Marvel. But Miller doesn’t appear to have been a freelancer when he was writing and drawing Daredevil in the early 1980s. He was working for Marvel between 1979 and 1982 under contract. While I haven’t seen his specific agreement, there are enough Marvel creator contracts from that period in the public record for me to feel fairly certain he was in fact a staff employee. Perhaps Laurie Sutton can clarify this. But even if Miller was working for Marvel on a freelance basis, the paperwork for that would have clearly spelled out that the company owned and controlled everything he did for them

Marvel had agreed not to bring back Elektra without Miller’s approval, a very rare concession to the creator that was made while Marvel was still a privately owned company and the stakes of multi media aren’t what they are now.

I’m not sure about this, either. There doesn’t seem to have been any written agreement between Marvel and Miller to that effect. There’s just a claim that an editor made a promise to him. The editor, namely Ralph Macchio, doesn’t appear to have corroborated that claim. As such, it appears to be just a rumor.

But even if Macchio had promised that, it should have been understood that Macchio meant that it was for only as long as it was Macchio’s decision to make. I would think Miller was savvy enough to know that unless Marvel was willing to contractually grant him project approval, Macchio’s promise was not binding on the company.

When I met Miller at a signing for the first Sin City collection in early ’93, I asked him if he had any kind of agreement in place regarding use of Elektra by others. (Elektra Lives Again was a year or two old at that point. Marvel had not yet brought back Elektra, but they had brought back Bullseye, which negated the entire book, and it seemed like the writing was on the wall.)

Miller told me that, no, he had no agreement at all.

Now it may well have been that he just did not want to discuss his private business arrangements publicly (to some random nobody), and it may have been more complicated than he made out, but his answer to me (random nobody) at the time was straightforward enough.

I remarked “I’m surprised that we haven’t already seen “Elektra #1″ written by Tom DeFalco out there.” He responded “Well, when you do, do me a favor and don’t buy it,” which seems to me that he saw the same writing on the wall…

Comics fans, or at least those who post comments online, seem unique among fan groups in their disdain for creators who express displeasure over their treatment by the big companies.

I’m not aware that Frank Miller, or anyone else, has ever claimed that Miller had a “written agreement” with Marvel, re: Elektra. And I don’t think Miller, or anyone else, has ever challenged Marvel’s legal right to do with Elektra as it pleases.

What I HAVE heard/read Miller say is that the company promised him something and then broke that promise, and that he is unhappy about that. Which is a perfectly legitimate and understandable reaction. And yet it always seems to provoke the tired old “he should have known what we was doing” finger-wagging comments from fans.

Is there a comic connection here that I am missing? Or will any story filed under “Controversy!” now do, regardless of relevance?

How refreshing that, for once, Tarantino’s bellicose iconoclasm is directed against a weightier target than the likes of Daniel Day-Lewis and Cate Blanchett.

A fine article, but why is it on The Beat?
Because Tarantino read comics when he was a kid?

“A fine article, but why is it on The Beat?”

Probably for the same reason all those Star Wars and James Bond articles are on the Beat. It’s all pop culture!

Tarantino can be obnoxious, but he has the right to speak his mind. It seems the nation’s largest police union feels otherwise. This sounds more like something a bunch of Brownshirts would say:

ww.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fraternal-order-police-quentin-tarantino-837394

With the recent demise of the Dissolve and Grantland, I’m grateful for any intelligent movie news, commentary and reviews. This kind of coverage grows more endangered every day.

[…] Legal | No, the lengthy battle over the rights to the Man of Steel still isn’t over. Attorneys for Warner Bros. and the family of Superman co-creator Jerry Siegel on Tuesday were back before the Ninth Circuit to argue once again whether Siegel’s daughter Laura Siegel Larson was entitled to rescind a 2001 settlement agreement. The outlook doesn’t appear promising for the Siegel family. [Courthouse News Service, The Beat] […]

I see minimization here. Cause and affect not seen for what it is. When one offers no real change (say by firing or diminishing Allie’s role in the company.) and one offers excuses for behavior (his mishandling stress) one shows they don’t understand the seriousness of the incident, and the affect it had on others.

I’d like dark horse to do more than issue a statement. How about hiring more women? How about offering a workshop in regard to womens issues in the work place? How about making a handbook with real guidelines and rules of behavior?

“I’d like dark horse to do more than issue a statement. How about hiring more women? How about offering a workshop in regard to womens issues in the work place? How about making a handbook with real guidelines and rules of behavior?”

I’d like to point out a few things here, simply because, unless you’ve been “in the trenches,” it’s easy to make up your own narrative about what goes on there.

1) “How about hiring more women?” I’ve never seen any gender discrimination in hiring. None. Not in any department. The company is not one big “boys club”.
2) “How about offering a workshop in regard to womens issues in the work place?” A lot of the sexual “harassment” issues come from a “men behaving badly” on-the-road situation. I put “harassment” in quotes because the misbehavior is more than sexual-misconduct. Think “stereotypical frat party” without the roofies (again, at cons and such). Not that any level of sexual harassment in the workplace is okay, but the behavior went into other areas. Note that the article mentions Scott drunkenly punching someone.
3) “How about making a handbook with real guidelines and rules of behavior?” There’s an employee handbook. Plus, you know, Oregon State law. The big problem has been that nothing is enforced unless they want to use it against you in your job review or to punish you for causing trouble.

Sounds like Allie has a problem he needs help for. Sad stuff.

I don’t get the point about bringing up his daughters; you shouldn’t need to have daughters in order to understand how harrassment affects people.

Pretty sure a vagina was required in some way for your existence too, Mr. Richardson, so alluding to your daughters and past work in terms of gender equality, etc isn’t relevant in any way in regards to this.

Your house is a mess. Clean it up. Only this time, throw out the garbage.

For fuck’s sake! Not tolerating harassment is very, very easy. Just fire the guy.

And this sort of stuff usually starts at the top. Serial harassers don’t rise through the ranks because the guy in charge takes dealing with allegations seriously.

Everyone in this lame-ass thing known as the “comic book industry” needs to attend some harassment training MANUALLY. The shit that goes on here is, well, disgraceful. This boy’s club needs to grow up and act responsibly. Losers all.

If Scott Allie is on a panel at NYCC, will an audience member ask him if he has assaulted anyone this weekend? Please!

As a matter of fact, if this question is asked at EVERY Dark Horse panel at EVERY con, regardless of whether Allie is present or not, Dark Horse might get tired of their company being associated with assault and remove him.

Plenty of misogynists have been married for decades, Tony. Plenty of people who have enabled harassment or engaged in it themselves have daughters. You or Mike Richardson being insulted by that reality means absolutely nothing.

2 things.

1. Whats the endgame with this specific case? What are we really asking for besides a complete culture change in the entire industry? Are we asking for heads on a lance? Fired and blacklisted from the industry forever? I feel that as horrible as these accusations are, the thirst for blood and stringing a noose from a tree from fans and industry pros is even worse. This guy could be a monster, but do we want to see him get help or just personally get destroyed?

2. In regards to this letter. Its a nice sentiment but DH seems to be like so many other small to medium sized businesses. Open door policies at small companies are most usually just a token statement people throw around as a morale booster. Employee handbook rules…oh those only apply to mid and junior staff members when you need legal cause to fire them. Not to managers or partners.

You really think the intern or the 25 yr old junior staff member wants to risk their job and career by filing a formal harassment complaint about a huge industry name and senior staff member? This has nothing to do with men and women but just a culture of small business power trips.

Without a video or some sort of undeniable (to a lawyer) proof, that’s like walking into an office and demanding to be fired. Its just better to cut your losses and find a new job most times. These types of things are culture issues and its enabled from the top all the way down.

That was…really too long an exchange of Twitters to digest for an article. I would have found a summary with one or two excerpted tweets more effective.

And, not to ignore the wider problem this article presents but enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know…will Batman ’66 and Sensation will continue to be released digitally, or will they be cancelled as well as the floppy reprints?

DC is still publishing comic books? ;)

Hi John,

Thanks for your comment. I got overzealous with the tweets– didn’t realize how long the conversation was because it seemed much shorter in my head! I’ve parred them down some.

According to solicits, the December issues for these titles will be the final issues for all formats. I will look into this further and clarify if I hear anything to the contrary.

I doubt that the Digital First comics will continue.
The numbers seem to have been calculated from “can we sell enough via digital + paper + graphic novel?”
If those numbers don’t add up to a profit, then it’s not going to continue with just one format.
In the old days, it was “newsstand + direct market + subscriptions”. Many marginal titles had better profits when newsstand copies were omitted (Ka-Zar, Micronauts, Moon Knight).

How well did DC market these new titles?
Why did Ms. Marvel become an overnight sensation, but not Prez?

I see the point TalesOfRacShade is making — I’m one of (I assume) many people who pick stuff up late, or purchase and then read late. I picked up a couple of the relaunched titles in June and didn’t get to reading any of them until Labor Day. (That’s what happens when your to-read pile is taller than the nightstand it sits on.) Now I’m going back to catch up on the ones I liked, but the damage has been done and the books that didn’t show strong interest by August will be canceled. Because most books simply don’t get a fighting chance, they’re often gone by the time their audience finds them.

It’s just the nature of the beast, though. I think it’s more of a general issue with monthly superhero comics and its sales channels than any bad decisions made at DC.

A lot of ground covered here:

Sad to see both Batman ’66 and Sensation Comics go. I bought both occasionally, but they were pretty confused packages.

The Batman book had the trappings of the TV show and good likenesses of the actors involved, but *unlike* the show it was played straight, not camp. So what audience was this for? I assume the nostalgia crowd (and in this day and age, that can’t be a very big crowd), but then it didn’t go all in. Sort of like putting on a production of Grease and taking out the songs. The stories were fine, but without the parody, it ended up being pretty mild (though the Kevin Smith/Ty Templeton mini with the Green Hornet was fun and the Len Wein/Harlan Ellison/Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez special was quite beautiful.)

Sensation Comics had a similar schizophrenic profile. Some of the best, accessible, all-ages Wonder Woman stories in a long time, unfortunately behind covers that often portrayed The Amazon Princess as a crazed warrior splattered with blood. I know covers in comics have a long history of not reflecting the exact contents, but I can’t imagine the audience for either one of those types of books being satisfied with that combination.

It makes me both sad and angry to hear these stories of sexual harassment behind the scenes. Especially when it involves people who are working on characters that are supposed to be heroes — examples of our best ideals, not our worst demons. DC, if this is going on, please get to the bottom of it and root it out. Not only for the sake of your workplace, but for Superman, Wonder Woman and all the other inspiring icons that the world looks up to.

And Torsten, I think Ms. Marvel had the advantage of a lot of media coverage outside of comics *and* being a superhero comic in the Marvel Universe. Prez is on its’ own in its’ own little corner of the world with no capes and tights.

The problem with DC is that they don’t give the smaller books a big marketing push. Although, I did notice that there was some attempt for The Omega Men with it having a big spread in the back pages for a month or two. Hopefully this is the kind of title that does alright in TPB and warrants a new miniseries in the not too distant future.

All of the Digital First titles have had limited lifespans, such as Adventures of Superman and Legends of the Dark Knight. Sensation had 48 digital weekly releases. That’s no small potatoes. After each one wraps up, a new one with a new character comes around the corner. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Flash or GL anthology Digital First series next up to bat.

For the record, Cullen Bunn confirmed on Twitter that “Lost Army” ends with issue six.

@Hardy: Ouch. So Lost Army wasn’t just cancelled; it was stealth cancelled. That must hit hard for the creators, to say nothing of readers who invested in the story.

Yeah, the Omega Men news hit me kind of hard, particularly after having been geared up for a twelve-issue run with a clearly laid out beginning, middle, and end. Add my voice to the choir of being cheated as a reader to be paying money for what will never be more than half a story.

And Alex DeCampi’s remarks just make me sad as a consumer. I loved Sensation Comics for its diverse storytelling, its introducing me to the work of a number of spectacular creators, and its being the iconic Wonder Woman book that I’ve felt had been missing from the stands since Gail Simone’s run on the title ended. (Azzarello and Chiang are a good “alternate” take, but separated from their storytelling, the N52 character is Generic Warrior Woman #49, not Wonder Woman.) Agreed with the poster who lamented the covers never matching the tone. That’s been a real sticking point for me with the book.

Basically, what made Sensation distinct is that between its covers, it was a feminist book. De Campi’s revelations about the Superman office at DC… I sincerely wish I could say I were surprised to hear her statements out loud. And it saddens me. The DiDio / Lee / Harras regime needs to topple. It feels to me like they set this new direction up for failure from the get-go, between the timing, the horrifyingly awful marketing, and now the company’s failure to see through on their own promises to their readers…

Is there any good news to come out of DC? I mean… Batgirl, Black Canary, and Doctor Fate are cool, and they’re still going. There’s that, right…?

As a artist in this industry. after a long day of work I like to wind down and read gossip and get into some mischief. Having been present at some of the alleged allegations of antagonism and first hand accounts not so nice naughtiness. The whole situation would be better presented in a comic book!
The underhandedness, lies, corruption and betrayals, all within cliquish secret society’s would make for some damn good reading. We got the writers! let’s start lining up artists and making money instead of putting it out there for free.

I really appreciated this break down of something I’d seen swirling around a lot on Twitter. I also agree with Spurgeon and appreciated the Rich Johnston tweets – it’s easy to toss around rumors on blogs, but I think everyone should hold themselves to old school journalism standards if they can, which means chasing leads, getting a source (even anonymous), and being confident before publishing allegations as truth. That isn’t to say this isn’t true OR that this story isn’t worth more digging, but I 100% agree with having reservations publishing allegations that aren’t directly sourced.

So, who is worse? Chris Sims or this guy?

Does Charles Brownstein still run the CBLDF?

I’m confused. Are you calling Edmonson a rapist?
Or do people just not like him because he’s conservative? If so- YAWN.

I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here (and frankly, I’m on the opposite political side of Edmonson) but:

– isn’t all this a legal matter? We can talk how much we want about somebody’s behavior but if the victims don’t go to the proper authorities, what are theu searching for, another kind of self-justice?

– what is the purpose of all this: to make it so that this kind of guy will never have any job ever available to him? Newsflash: if people can’t find a job and sustain a living, don’t expect their behavior to improve, it will not work! Now, I could understand if they guy was supposed to become the head of a firm with values opposed to his behavior, but here, he’s only writing a comics. Assholes and people who have been convicted can write comics, and I frankly don’t want to live in a world with, on one side “so called pure people who can work and do what they want” and on the other side “bad people” who can’t find a job and have limited freedom. People are not either 100% right or wrong.

– on the fact that Edmonson is, as I understood it, a right-right wing guy, writing a comics on a native super-hero character. Well, let’s see what he’s gonna produce. If you make your memory time bubble work, you can probably remember how some others far-right writers have depicted for exemple how poor people were living in the streets, and they did it right. The guy can probably write something good, if he doesn’t let his political judgment take over. He’s a writer, it’s their job, they usually know how to do that. There are probably tons and tons of racist people handling a business who, in the context of their business, in their business relation to colored or foreign people, are not assholes and behave as they should, with all the courtesy they should. People are allowed to be assholes and racist in the privacy of their home, as long as they don’t hurt anyone.

– so, this Edmonson guy has hurted some other people. Sue him for that, not for writing comics. He’s allowed to write comics, to have a job and make a living.

Now, on the other side, because I don’t want to play devil’s advocate so much for someone who would have such an inapropriate behavior, it’s true that people who complain about such behavior for sure should not be put away or silenced, that’s a problem.
And yeah, putting a far right writer on their first native ongoing super-hero serie in 40 years is either stupid from Marvel, or the controversy was exactly was exactly what they were searching for to advertise it for free. (even if I’m not sure that’s good advertising)

@TheDudePerfect – I don’t see how you could genuinely read this article and think that it’s just about the guy’s political views. He’s been accused (unfortunately without specifics) of sexual harassment.

“He’s been accused (unfortunately without specifics) of sexual harassment.”

But he hasn’t actually been accused of that, apparently. People have talked about bad behavior in the comic business and then mentioned this guy’s name. That seems to be about it.

And on another stupid subject, if stories about American Indians can only be told by American Indians then we can expect no such stories to be told. Should Steven Spielberg not have directed “Amistad?”

Mike

Thank you for writing this, Heidi. I’m an outsider who likes to remain an informed consumer. I keep up here and on Comics Alliance and on Bleeding Cool (much as I loathe the sensationalist culture of the latter, there’s some genuine wheat in the chaff), because I want to make informed choices about the comics I buy. Sometimes that means making moral judgments based on where my money will ultimately be going, and that why I pay close watch to what little legitimate comics journalism I can find in the time I have to work with. Your work is pretty much the tops in my book, incidentally, and this article is the perfect illustration of why. I wish I had the teeth for journalism, but I can only wear so many hats, especially when none of them really provides particularly meaningful cash flow. ;)

Down to the specifics here, everyone on the comments seems to be focused rather intently on Nathan Edmondson, and while he’s at the center of the article, it’s not about him at all. His story is certainly at the center of this, but seriously, read the article, the whole thing. This is a story about gossip, about the fact that this story *is* a void, either through lack of digging, people not asking the right questions of the right people, the right people not coming forward, or there not even being a story at all. It’s a snapshot of an insular industry that can’t progress, because it can’t talk about itself above a whisper. By all means, talk, but remember, this article is not fact regarding the writer in question. It says so itself many a time. It’s about the fact that the truth of the matter just isn’t coming to light, which is a damned shame if the cited rumors are true. As much as there’s a lofty cold, academic ideal to divorce the work from the artist, I can’t do so in good conscience. Maybe it’s a virtue, maybe it’s a failing on my part, but I don’t want my money going to someone who (insert specific act of unwanted advancement here, because I won’t feed into rumor-mongering by citing a nonexistent “for instance” out of a hat). But again, that’s all “if.” It’s all speculation without credible journalism investigating… credibly.

It’s a very small pool of people with (as I understand it) a very small pool of resources, and that’s the problem. Credibility and integrity are at the heart of this matter, on all levels, from the rumors conduct to the reporting of it. And it’s eye opening and heartbreaking, all at once. Anyway… Bravo, Heidi, and thank you again.

Thom – if this article isn’t about accusing Edmonson of ‘something’ which is heavily implied to be rape or sexual harassment but never explicitly stated (“Ha~! Take that libel!”) – then i’m not sure what it’s about.
That’s all the article talks about.

We Kickstarted the BAD KARMA hardcover and later offered it through Diamond (selling copies we had overprinted) via Dynamite.

My guess is we sold more copies through Diamond thanks to awareness of and response to the Kickstarter than we would have had we just offered it cold to the marketplace.

Kickstarters are a ton of work…I had to actually slow down on them a bit but picking back up in fall with a new one. The thing is you always have to look at your kickstarter as a store and try to offer the best product you can and show as much of it as you possibly can on your page. I love doing them because it creates a real connection with me and my audience and a certain kind of relationship that is just impossible to have anywhere else…but my point is that it is not an easy thing and you will judged by how well you communicate, and deliver a solid product. Like Todd says in this excellent piece, a lot of the after kickstarter income is made after the book is released and keeping digital as well as some of the books in stock like I do on the Paperfilms.com site is very important to those that might have missed the chance to become part of the kickstarter. As pictured, we have ABBADON now featured in the diamond catalogue under our partners Adaptive imprint and we are hoping word of mouth from the kickstarter helps its sales to a brand new audience.

[…] How To Make Crowdfunding Sustainable For Comics – A little while back … to your customer list each time. If you’re doing a series and you have some copies of the previous volume(s) in hand, offer a bundle of the whole series as an upsell. It can help you raise more … […]

[…] Crowdfunding | Todd Allen, author of The Economics of Digital Comics and veteran of several Kickstarter campaigns, discusses how crowdfunding fits in with the larger comics market — and how it could work better. [The Beat] […]

Standard 70 ain’t half bad. I use it for advance review copies and it’s noticeably less premium, but only if you’re comparing the book to offset-printed ones on your bookshelf. The print quality is nice and crisp, on bright white paper, and most people who look at them think they’re finished books until I tell them they aren’t.

If you don’t think they’re doing what is implied why act like they did something wrong?

FWIW, Hercules has never been known in the Marvel universe as anything but straight. We are currently going through Secret Wars, which shows different riffs on different characters; certainly a riff on an alternate Hercules COULD be bisexual as the mythological one. The one of Marvel’s past hasn’t been, so let’s not act like they rewrote their own character.

To clarify, Chris, my opinion is that Marvel didn’t set out to hurt anyone when they made the editorial change, but they should have been more aware of how fans would react to this change before they made it. Then, when they heard the fans lashing out, Alonso and comapny reacted by trivializing the fanbase’s concerns, escalating a misunderstanding into an argument. That latter bit, ultimately, is where Marvel err’d.

what editorial change? hercules in the 616 MU has always been straight and still is. man, marvel cannot win. they change the color or gender of a character, they get shit over it, they keep a character that’s always been straight, straight, and they get shit over that. does every character have to become someone else to what they were, and if not , there’s hell to pay? does every character have to stay the same and if not, there’s hell to pay? alonzo & co. were just as insensitive to fans that were pissed about a female thor as they are to fans that are pissed about not having a bi-hercules. but i guess depending on which side you’re on, you may or may not have a problem with who they’re being jerks to. by the way this “all-new , all-different” nonsense this just that, nonsense. except for spider-man and maybe a few other characters starting from scratch, every character is picking up right where they left off before secret wars and we’re catching up to them eight months later. just a lot of characters being shuffled around onto different teams, settings, etc. this is not a “new52″ type reboot. it’s just the illusion of being an “all-new, all-different” reboot.

Speaking as someone who actually does have a horse in the race, abc, the difference comes down to which group is in a position of power. The mainline Thor whose adventures we will be following is a woman now? Great! Chalk one up for representing women readers searching for more heroes they can relate to. And hey, Odinson’s still out there, so fan’s of the *character* can still follow his brave deeds aplenty, and moreover, look kids! Reprints! Collections and catalogues full of thousands upon thousands of pages all sorts of manly Thor-ness across many a title over many a year!

Meanwhile, who do I, as a bi-male reader have in the Marvel U? Alright, Loki, could be inter — oh, wait. That pretty much just came up in interviews and didn’t really get explored in the title. Also, there’s that whole “trickster” stereotype that causes complications if he’s going to be the only rep for bi pride out there. Okay… Ah! How about that Herc guy? As the author stated, most of the Marvel U version of Hercules’ implied bisexuality was invented in years past on the readers’ part due to his connections to the Hercules of Greek mythology. Enter Pak & Van Lente, who bring this just a little bit into subtext in the book itself very slowly over the course of their run. Cool! Maybe this is something we can run with, right? Oh, and there was that cool alt-universe stuff going on between him and alt-universe Wolverine in that X-Men book that about twelve people read? Hey, in-story precedent! Cool!

But…wait…Mr. Alonso? What’s that? Not even a “Wait and see” or “This isn’t a road we’re going to explore at this time…? Just a…”No, you’re all wrong?” Well, that’s… That’s just… What’s the word for that? Oh yeah, it hurts. Bloody smack in the face the way he said it (and not the fun kind).

Before Secret Wars, I was picking up about a dozen Marvel books a month and a fair share of collected editions, anywhere from $100-$300 worth per. I dropped the monthlies during the big event, while I waited for some other favorite creator-centric runs to wrap up, but after this? Bye, Marvel. Already cancelled pulls of titles I would have been picking up; my money’s already where my mouth is. I’m sure you won’t miss it, but it’s all I can do. Sometimes I love you guys at the House of Ideas, but this is ugly disdain.

Oh man, my grammar is atrocious when I’m angry. Spot an error? I probably already did and am secretly ashamed, weeping at the lack of an “edit” feature.

Thom, seriously, if you’re willing to drop Marvel over this, they won’t miss your dollars. The character has always been depicted as heavily straight, so why should they change it to accommodate a tiny handful of readers? Guarantee you it would piss off a lot more readers than it would please if Marvel decided to go this route. Many would view it as a publicity stunt, since homosexual rights and transgender issues are the hot topic at the moment. Marvel is a business so they’d be more willing to lose their one to two percent of bisexual readers rather than the the 30 to 40 percent(estimate) of the fanbase that would probably not be down with this idea/storyline.

“The character has always been depicted as heavily straight, so why should they change it to accommodate a tiny handful of readers?”

Because there aren’t enough gay and bi characters represented in comics and this one with his already existing historical background would be pretty much perfect.

“Guarantee you it would piss off a lot more readers than it would please if Marvel decided to go this route.”

I’m sure it would. Maybe that would be a good thing. If you really think 30-40% of the readers would have a problem with Hercules being bisexual you have a very low opinion of those people.

“Marvel is a business so they’d be more willing to lose their one to two percent of bisexual readers rather than the the 30 to 40 percent(estimate) of the fanbase that would probably not be down with this idea/storyline.”

Wait… Marvel’s “Hercules” has a “fanbase”? Because, like, as a retailer a see a character that was d-list at best, until Marvel (nearly) literally *forced* “Incredible Hulk” readers to buy his book with a character/title swap that kept the underlying series code in every retailer’s database. Which, as I recall, did nothing but shed readers month-by-month, and held on to the schedule largely because of crossover tie-ins and the spikes they brought. So, maybe profile raised to c-list?

You’d kind of HAVE to do something radical with the character (er, not that bi-sexuality itself is radical, but having sexuality be anything but a prop for a one-dimensional character like Herc, now that would be a radical thing in Marvel comics) to get retailers to order enough copies to be able to launch an ongoing… and succeed. My native order for a non-superstar team on a Herc book would be like maybe 15-20 copies, max? Less than half of what I’d order for the B-List characters, and twice that for the A-List. That way leads to cancellation. If it were the “All-New, All-Bi Herc #1″, dunno, I am in San Francisco so maybe that would move it from C-level to B-level orders for curiosity seekers, but even if I was some place more conservative I’d probably split the difference because there’s nothing inherently commercial about the Marvel version of the character.

(which is why you haven’t had a Herc comic any time lately)

So, yeah, as a retailer, I think the market would very much reject your math — a “controversial” Herc comic would sell better than a “boycotted by partisans” one.

-B

I find the invocation of “power” ironic, since it’s pretty clear who has the power in these situations. Hint – who found a more receptive audience online, the people who complained about making Rawhide Kid gay or the ones complaining about restoring Hercules’ heterosexuality.

And just to be clear, I’m talking about the initial, prepublication reaction. Once they actually saw the all-new, all-gay Rawhide Kid, I would guess the reaction was largely unanimous across all sorts of lines.

Mike

Good for Tony! I hope that everything works out between him and DC Comics.

Today in TONY ISABELLA’S BLOGGY THING…Cats and dogs, living together: http://tonyisabella.blogspot.com/2015/07/black-lightning-2015.html

(Yes, I am shamelessly stealing Jeff’s very funny line from Ghostbusters.)

[…] Isabella to confirm via Facebook that he and DC were back on speaking terms (as publicized by The Beat’s Jeff Trexler). Isabella later told the story of the reconciliation on his personal […]

Just a side note to the Beat, I know that there has been some changes made recently to the website. Well, the RSS feed has died for those small few people who still read from an RSS feed. :-)

I think you mean “kvetching” not “kvelling.”

Actually, I haven’t changed anything! Unfortunately either foul play or a database corruption is leading to some problems.

IF anyone sees a particularly wacky front page make a screen shot and send it to me please!

…and even the Eisners (sibling to the Harvey Awards) are a bit mysterious, as the rules are not published.

Are the rules to the Harvey Awards available online?

http://www.comic-con.org/awards/faq

“Matt Fraption”

Wait… are you sure you want exactly that wording?

Marvel’s text ads were house ads — all pitching some book or other. I don’t remember seeing any for advertisers’ products. Harvey also ran at least one of these I remember, in 1974; again, a house ad.

Quality ran in-story half pages in Doll Man and other titles in the early 1940s, so it started very early. Even when there weren’t ads, comics art would sometimes share pages with Statements of Ownership — this happened at DC in the 1960s, and all of Gold Key’s ran on comics pages. Those tended to appear on the last story page.

A search of Heritage past auctions turns up quite a lot of half-page art; my sense has always been that those pages have been less desirable by collectors. I don’t remember seeing regular ad positions sold after the 1970s, though.

Reprising my comment from the previous story:

As someone who once oversaw DC’s ad sales business and worked with the team there to nurse it back to relative good health, I applaud this effort. As the concept appears to be an extension of the well established “Left Twix / Right Twix” campaign, it’s a pretty smart strategy . And if the creative teams were advised in advance and given time to accommodate (or even make it work for them), the better. And if DC scored a PAID ad (rare these days for them), kudos to all involved.

It should be obvious to anyone with a marketing sense and an understanding of brands that an initiative like this is not an indication of the establishment of a half-page ad unit. What it is is a vote of confidence by a national brand in the relevance of pop culture comics as a medium and the power of comics readers as a distinct demographic.

I am on Team Comics, which means that whatever keeps the publishing model viable is a good thing. The Twix ad is ugly and the use of a photo is poor match with the content of the magazine. Still, more money flowing in the publishing end of DC is a win.

Well, speaking as someone with marketing sense and an understanding of brands, I think you’re missing the point.

If the ad is divisive and produces alienation in the target demographic (deserved or undeserved) then it can’t be said to be an effective promotion of the product. It’s failed to do its job. Whether or not this initiative is a massive “vote of confidence” from a “national brand” is ultimately irrelevant in the face the response it has received… which thus far has ranged from bemused indifference to anger. Hardly a positive reception, and unlikely to meet its basic function in selling candy. Smart advertising strategies ought to be eye-catching, compelling, but unobtrusive. Why do you think people hate pop-ups?

I don’t think that any reasonable person expects ad-free comics. But I think that it’s a terrible idea to insert advertising material onto the same page as comics material. Nobody looked at this and thought that it was a clever allusion to the “Left Twix/ Right Twix” campaign, they just saw a disruption to the story they were reading. This was many of the many reasons why the use of the half-page ad unit was dropped decades ago, and its return indicates a failure of marketers to understand the demographic. It’s very hard to accept that this was a good move on the part of DC or the marketers of Twix. It’s a plainly an ill-conceived campaign.

ARCH – calm down and stop lying to yourself.
To quote you:

“Nobody looked at this and thought that it was a clever allusion to the “Left Twix/ Right Twix” campaign, they just saw a disruption to the story they were reading. ”

These comics are literally not out yet. No-one, (I repeat No-one) has read this story. You’re working yourself up into a frenzy and lying to yourself.

Chill out.

A paid advert is a good thing, it means continued survival of the comics industry. Huzzah.

And I agree with Steve – this ad split fits with Twix’s current Right/Left campaign. It may not be ‘clever’ but it’s also not haphazard. A global brand wanted to be in a comic book! AND designed an advert specifically to appear in a comic book! This is cause for celebration!

For those here proclaiming that this is some sort of trailblazing epiphany in innovative advertising, I seem to recall one of salesmanships basic tenets: advertising is supposed to entice, not repel. The overwhelming reaction to the news so far looks like it isn’t going to make DC comic book fans run out and buy Twix bars.

Ad men might be high-fiving themselves over this, but maybe they don’t realize that comic fans are a very special audience and a very special breed of consumer. They take all aspects of their books very seriously — from the content to the physical package. You can’t just waddle into the middle of someone else’s house, make an unsightly mess and then have us all stare at it and say ‘thank you’.

I’ll bet you one crisp Canadian $5 bill that this will have a negligible effect on the amount of DC books purchased in the near future. I base this assumption based off the fact that every time a comic company has increased the price of a comic or decreased page count in the past eight years I’ve been working in the industry, I had maaaaaaaaybe a couple people raise a stink in store, and of those people, maaaaaaaaybe one of them actually didn’t buy the book on general principle.

DC would have been stupid to not take this money. They might lose a few people, but I guarantee you the money they made by having the ad run more than offsets that. Just like losing a few people while gaining a dollar for every comic sold or gaining many dollars for every page cut makes sense. Of course, there is a point of diminishing returns, but this isn’t that.

I never thought I would say this, but the two best books on my pull list these days are from Image: they’re both by Warren Ellis, which means they contain actual content; they’re beautifully drawn by artists who actually have some idea of how to tell a story in pictures; they cost $2.99 rather than the standard $3.99 for most everything else; and they HAVE NO ADS. AT ALL. How Image can afford to do this in comics with no superheroes in them is a mystery, particularly when one of the Big 2 now finds it necessary to interrupt not just the story but the PAGES in a story with advertising. It’s just inexcusable. I’m a DC guy from since childhood, and this past year I feel like I’m witnessing the death throes of something that doesn’t need to die. DC’s management needs to be replaced.

It’s a trial run that will not go over well. Of course, people will accept the change, but I can’t see a lot of people enjoying a half page comics. It will break up the flow of a lot of stories.

Best thing to do: wait for the trades, or buy digital. (I assume digital comics don’t have ads?)
The Twix “left / right” campaign is pretty stupid. Though not as stupid as those insipid Sonic commercials.

People are still buying those pamphlets? Why?

So what happens when these stories are reprinted as trades? A big blank panel in place of the ad?

At Al@ – they will put the two half-pages together as one page.

As to what others are saying, what ticks off hardcore comics fans who visit comics websites tends to blow right by most comics readers with nary a problem.

“As to what others are saying, what ticks off hardcore comics fans who visit comics websites tends to blow right by most comics readers with nary a problem.”

HA! True that Glen. The # of fans who visit comic website is minuscule compared to the # who buy comics.

Heidi,

Definitely a good point on the outrage about the one panel. I’ll agree that even if it was primarily a scholarly panel, they should have at least included Trina Robbins on it since she was a guest of the convention.

As someone who has programmed 100+ panels for several years in the author track at a similar sized comic con (and who was dismissed from said con this year when I objected to cutting said programming by 50%), 400 panels for a con that large is not really that much. It does take someone who knows the subject matter (both in specific areas as well as general areas) and makes the effort to get familiar with the participants and their strengths and interests. Each pop culture con can make themselves unique in their programming outside of the big media guests but it seems most of them aren’t really putting a lot of effort into it or have no clue how to do it.

I had fun reading the interview. It’s very interesting. Great!

With all these Alan Moore interviews that have been done I wonder why no one will ask him why the big reveal behind Jack The Ripper in FROM HELL is exactly the same as the reveal in the 40 year old Sherlock Holmes movie MURDER BY DECREE. It isn’t just similar or kind of the same, it is exactly the same.

I find it funny how internet wen crazy over that older Moore interview and he barely recalls doing it in the first place.

The nice thing about mentioning GuffleGub is that it quickly shows you who is a closet wackadoo.

“a bizarre idealized girl gamer who coexists with men in some peaceful wonderland”

Sorry, is the implication here that actual male and female gamers are incapable of coexisting peacefully? If that’s really the implication, it’s a very odd claim that flies in the face of literally every gaming community I’ve ever been a part of.