This Week in Publishing Normal This Time
Whew! I may have missed a few items in publishing news this week as I chipped away at the mountain that sprouted in my office while I was out, but here are a few of the many things that happened over the past week.
Don't forget about Page Critique Friday! The page up for critique is up for critique in the Forums for critique. UPDATE: my critique posted here.
Now for the news.
The NY Times had a widely linked-to article about the decline of picture books, citing ambitious toddlers who are purchasing chapter books for their parents in order to prepare them for a bright future (or maybe it's the reverse of that), and also the pesky economic downturn. (Downturn, could you please go away already, can't you see NO ONE LIKES YOU. Seriously, take a hint.)
Mother Jones summarized the maladies of fictional characters as diagnosed by various health professionals. They diagnose Darth Vader with borderline personality disorder (borderline? I think he's quite past the line), and Bartleby with Asperger's.
A lending feature will soon be coming to the Kindle, allowing users to lend a book for 14 days, during which time it won't be available to the original user (assuming publishers and rights holders approve). Pretty cool.
Eric at Pimp My Novel has a great list of publishing myths that he slays like a samurai fighting some dude who was crazy enough to mess with a samurai. The lesson: don't mess with samurai.
There has been a debate percolating on the Internet about the presence or lack of presence of strong female characters in young adult literature, including in the Forums. Natalie Whipple had a great post about this phenomenon, pointing out how complex this issue is given that what constitutes "strong" and "weak" varies so much from person to person and character to character. And editor Sarah Jae Jones and agent Sarah LaPolla had very interesting follow-up posts to Natalie's post.
Michael Stearn from Upstart Crow wrote an upstanding post about some of the differences between middle grade and teen literature, including the levels of complexity and interority (a word I cannot say out loud for the life of me).
There are some beloved novels headed for the silver screen. GalleyCat had an early look at the Hunger Games script, and Peter Jackson announced the cast for The Hobbit, including Martin Freeman as Bilbo Baggins, which I think should be spectacular. What sayeth you?
Moses Siregar uncovered plans by Nielson to begin tracking e-b
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Nathan Bransford is the author of JACOB WONDERBAR AND THE COSMIC SPACE KAPOW, a middle grade novel about three kids who blast off into space, break the universe, and have to find their way back home, which will be published by Dial Books for Young Readers in May 2011. He was formerly a literary agent with Curtis Brown Ltd., but is now a publishing civilian working in the tech industry. He lives in San Francisco.
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There's a temptation to think that once an author has "made it" and made it bigger than anyone else, this author will have achieved boundless happiness and contentment and couldn't have a thing to complain about.
In the comments of my recent "When Dreams Become Expectations" post, as Ermo pointed out, people tended to think of true satisfaction always being perennially elusive, unless you're a Rowling and King. Then, it seems, people believe that would be completely satisfying.
I don't know these mega-authors personally, but signs point to this not being the case. In the recent Oprah interview, Rowling said, "You ask about the pressure... At that point, I kept saying to people, ‘Yeah I’m coping…’ but the truth was there were times when I was barely hanging on by a thread."
Not the sound of someone who feels like they have it made in the shade. I personally doubt Rowling would trade in her success and the sheer level of love for her books for anything, but I also don't think there's anyone who ever feels total and perfect contentment and satisfaction with their station. We keep striving no matter how high we've climbed, even those who have climbed the highest. Pressure can cut into satisfaction, and the spotlight can be uncomfortable.
It all reminds me of the speed of light (or at least my own understanding of the speed of light, which is likely wildly flawed). The way the physics of light works is that no matter how fast you personally are traveling, from your perspective a beam of light will still look like it's traveling at the speed of light. You can't travel alongside a beam of light. There's no catching up.
And I think there's actually something great about that. There will always be something to chase, always something to strive for, always another horizon to pursue. Who wants to be perfectly contented? Where's the excitement in that? There will always be something great to chase around the bend.
Photo by Mila Zinkova via Creative Commons
Great post.
"Someday, when I'm famous . . ." is the name of my blog. Of course I meant it as a joke, but it's fun to pretend what could happen if I were ever to become a famous author. Usually it runs along the lines of, "Someday, when I'm famous, I'll live in a house with more than one bathroom." Yeah - I dream big.
But yikes! I would *not* want to be Stephen King, J.K. Rowling, or Stephenie Meyer. Success isn't all good. Just give me an agent, a publisher, a decent following, and time to write each day. I'd prefer NOT to have the negative fame.
Spoken like a true aspirant still on the nether side of 50 and still climbing the hill of life.
Ah, to be so young again ...
Very true. It's also worth remembering that poor Stephanie Meyer is absolutely hated by a lot of people and there is some really nasty stuff levelled at her. I'm sure her riches more than make up for this but still, that's not nice. All three of those authors have some strong critics out there, and I bet even after all that success - and even bearing in mind you're never going to please everybody - knowing some people hate your stuff that much can't be pleasant.
If you started a cult, I would totally follow you...wait, is that what's happening?
Awesome post!
Oh Nathan, I heart you. And yes, when people love those books it makes things a lot less bizarre and a lot more interesting at the same time. I guess whether or not the emperor is wearing new clothes is in the eye of the beholder. Some readers see the beautiful garments, and some people are shocked at how flaccid and doughy he looks in his birthday suit. I'm going to give the emperor's other books a try. I heard he wore garments to be admired there too.
You actually can catch up to the speed of light, you just cannot surpass it.
I think this blog demonstrates that Nathan already is a cult leader. I completely agree and follow the 'it's the journey, not the destination' line of thinking. I've felt happy and fortunate while pursuing various dreams over the years. Each time I attain a dream goal, I choose another because if I'm not stretching myself and growing, I feel stagnant. Great post!
Interesting. I used to interview high achievers in all kinds of fields - sporting, artistic, business, creative. And one quality the very top people shared was that they never rested on their laurels.
No matter how much success these writers achieve, they're always going to carry some insecurity, some deficit. King complains that no one ever asks him about "the language," and in many circles he'll never be given the respect he deserves. Same for Rowling. Some look at her success and say "so what, she's just a kids' author." No one's ever going to be loved, admired, and respected in every circle (except Nathan of course).
"Making it" really is an illusion. You have to define it for yourself and be prepared to redefine it constantly. Today "making it" is making my 2000 words. Next month "making it" is finishing a novel in 4 weeks.
The one immutable law of the universe is change, and that means changing what each of us means by "making it" word by word, day by day, book by book.
I'm not really an Oprah fan, but that interview with Rowling was pretty great. In addition to her talking about the pressure she felt, I really loved it when she said something to the effect of: "I didn't have a lot of confidence in myself, but the one thing I knew I could do was tell a story." That's a writer.
I think she means pressure as in, "The next HP book better be awesome or the mobs will kill me." I don't think she means pressure as in, "Will I sell another book? Will I be able to pay the rent?"
I'm sure she has aspirations in life. I think we all have those until we die, but as far as the book publishing industry goes, I'd say she's definitely made it.
When you think of all the people who try for years and still don't sell a book, or sell a book but it goes by largely unnoticed, it's hard to think of these caliber of writers, like Rowling and King, as not having "made it". At least professionally, they have.
Maybe their personal lives are a mess or maybe they have a host of other problems, but if you're strictly talking publishing, I think it's safe to say they're good.
This reminds me of the "30 Rock" episode. Liz Lemon considers quitting her job when she meets a bunch of women in her building who spend days taking yoga and getting pedicures. After a few days of bliss, LIz discovers the women beat one another up to feel alive again.
We must always strive to feel alive. Coasting is stagnating.
Great post, Nathan, and one that has universal application regardless of one's vocation. The verb "striving," can be dangerous, because it is very close to "chasing," as though we're a hampster trying to get to the end of our wheel. Contentment, on the other hand, gets a bad rap... as though it means complacent or apathetic. But I believe contentment can take on a broader, richer meaning, because the ultimate contentment--at the end of a day's work or the completion of a book or other project--is inherently coupled with a desire to reach that state again.
I've known many people who've "made it" in various industries (mostly show biz though), and I've got to say that several who made it to the top of their field continued to carry with them those same neurotic securities that drove them to achieve that success in the first place. THE most successful are sometimes THE most messed up.
I learned a long time ago no matter how great (or how badly) I'm doing there's ALWAYS someone who's doing better and ALWAYS someone who's doing worse. Wishing I could be in his/her shoes (the better, not the worse) is a waste of my time when I could be working on being the best I can be. When I achieve MY best and feel good about myself...I've found my personal success.
I learned a long time ago no matter how great (or how badly) I'm doing there's ALWAYS someone who's doing better and ALWAYS someone who's doing worse. Wishing I could be in his/her shoes (the better, not the worse) is a waste of my time when I could be working on being the best I can be. When I achieve MY best and feel good about myself...I've found my personal success.
Love the photo! 'Just a walk in the park, you said. You forgot to mention it's a NATIONAL park, and this part is tilted at nearly ninety degrees!'
But seriously, Nathan, you're right. It's not enough that I achieve a level of success that is unsurpassed, boundless happiness and contentment, and true satisfaction. EVERYONE ELSE MUST FAIL!
Just as well we can't travel as fast as light. Think of the jetlag THAT would produce.
What do people do when they've made it? They start making another one.
I am willing to role the dice on making it and not being content. It beats not making it and not being content.
Even those who have made it to the top have to worry about falling (or being pushed). There's enormous pressure to duplicate past success, and when your past success was phenomenal, any shortcomings in your later efforts will just be magnified.
It's best to learn to be content with what you have while still striving for something greater; that way, you (hopefully) grow but aren't disappointed with what you have been able to achieve.
Kathleen is right. Money may not buy you happiness, but it can get you a better class of misery.
Interesting Blog post. I agree with the basic sentiment, that you should strive to be happy wherever you are in your writing career. And there are so many ways to be happy as a writer today. For many, being an indie or self-published author can be glorious because, even though no real money might be made, it’s possible to belong to the wonderful online world of writers. And, in the case of Paul Harding, his indie-published novel TINKERS won the Pulitzer Prize (Pulitzer Prize!) in Fiction, and that’s a glorious thing. Really, in today’s electronic world, all things are possible in the world of writing.
On the other hand, I feel for writers and everyone else who’s out of work, homeless, seriously ill, or at a point in their lives in which they are unable to work toward making their dreams come true because hardships have made that too difficult to even consider. Physical health and having enough money to get by definitely allow people to achieve a degree of contentment that keeps real despair at bay.
I also think there are people for whom the simple joys of daily life are enough and, given good physical health and a dependable income, probably achieve contentment much more easily than writers or other artists do. Artists tend to suffer through a great deal of existential despair.
We all just need to find our wormholes (i.e., devices that allow us to travel faster than light ;)
As Hilary Mantel said of winning the Man Booker, "it has to be seen as an event in your career rather than an event in your writing, your writing life goes on."
I think of happiness as the waves on the ocean. They change direction, height, frequency and is unreliable. But contentment is deeper, underlying, like the steady swell of transatlantic currents which isn't much affected by weather.
Whilst I agree that the temptation of thinking someone else has made it may corrode your own self esteem and cause you to think of "true satisfaction always being perennially elusive", I am not sure how much of a link there is with achievement. There is a lot to be said for being happy with being and not with doing. Happiness comes from what and who we are, not from what we do. Yes, we may feel elation or pride or contentedness through achievement, but as you say, because (virtually) every achievement can be surpassed your goalposts are constantly moving and everyone's expectations and measures of achievement are different. Being happy for me, is an appreciation of life as it is, in the moment. I look forward to things, and I look back on much, including achievements, with anticipation or recollection of happiness, but a state of contentment cannot be pursued through achievement, in my opinion.
"Who wants to be perfectly contented?" I think everyone does. People who are intrinsically unhappy don't want to be. Being content in oneself, doesn't have to mean you are complacent or lazy. There can be plenty of excitement in looking ahead to new challenges and chasing new dreams, but my core level of contentment will not be affected by their achievement.
I went to Bouchercon last week in San Francisco. It was fabulous, and HUGE. 1,400 people there, including over 350 published authors in mystery/suspense/thriller/noir. Those published authors were working hard, doing panels and presentations and encouraging apprentice writers. I think even the greats--David Baldacci, Lee Child, Laurie King, Denise Mina and so many others-- were buoyed by digging in and being part of the writing tribe, the one that is always striving for great writing.
Great blog post. I was just considering this recently. Spooky too about Rowling because I was thinking -- "What *does* she do next??"
A few weeks back I signed my first contract with a very small (but real) publishing house. My mind's first reaction was "there must be something wrong here" my second was "yeah but I'm going to have to work that much harder to make the book a success" and I stopped myself before my third negative thought. I realized precisely what you wrote: there will always be something else. So I took the time to just sit back and ENJOY what was happening.
Key to happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you have.
There was some study which I'm too lazy to look up to cite properly, but I believe it was in the field of the "study of happiness" which looked at how happy people said they were a year after something horrible, like losing their legs. Turns out: about as happy as they were before losing their legs. Same with a "happy" event, such as winning the lottery. People tend to return to their baseline levels of happiness.
"You can't travel alongside a beam of light. There's no catching up."
Nah. I have proof we'll be traveling at the speed of light by the year 2050. Coincidentally, that's also the year I achieve perfect happiness.
When J.K. Rowling was working on the last book of her series, I remember wondering how anyone could possibly survive that pressure! I so admire her for writing with the whole weight of the world's eyes on her. I can't think of any other author who has had to deal with that kind of public pressure. Personally, I would have cracked. I suck at pressure.
In terms of never being content, what you say is very wise, and I believe a Great Truth, Nathan. In fact, there's a whole religion based on the reality that desire never ends - Buddhism. Personally, though, I don't agree with the Buddhist conclusion that desire is therefore the root of suffering, and one should detach from desire, and the world, to rise above it(although I greatly admire Buddhism and agree with many of the teachings, just not that one). I think it is in the striving and the journey where the real gold lies.
I believe there is a reason humans were created to constantly yearn and strive, and never quite arrive for more than a few moments.
It's our fate - tragic, comic, always noble, and perhaps divine - that there is always another mountain.
(Not that resting isn't important too. Rest is good. Resting between steps.)
But, anyway, don't take my word for it. As proof, I submit to you this very wise song. I remember I deleted it the last post, and I'll post it here again because it fits just as well. Sung by Ms. Miley Cirus, written by Jesse Alexander and Jon Mabe:
"There's always gonna be another mountain
I'm always gonna wanna make it move
Always gonna be a uphill battle
Sometimes I'm gonna have to lose
Ain't about how fast I get there
Ain't about what's waiting on the other side
It's the climb"
I absolutely agree that it is human nature to keep striving.
Well said Nathan. I completely agree. e
Nathan - Wonderful blog. First time I've had to comment. As I read your words I thought of my favorite passage from John Nichols in "On The Mesa."
He wrote, "We are touched my magic wands. For just a fraction of our day life is perfect, and we are absolutely happy and in harmony with the earth. The feeling passes much too quickly. But the memory-and the anticipation of other miracles-sustains us in the battle indefinitely."
I saw that interview with Oprah and J.K. It was very interesting and confirmed my opinion that it's all about perception and beliefs. J.K. said that she found it difficult to believe in herself, but she always believed in her writing ability and the future success of the first Harry Potter book. I feel her relationships would be more challenging for her than her work, despite the pressure, as her confidence doesn't lie in this area.
Oprah, on the other hand, came across as a force of nature. When I checked her past accomplishments, what she'd achieved by the age of twenty one was incredible.
This is universally true. It’s the basis of economics—there are unlimited wants and limited means. Thank God! How boring would it be to have nothing to look forward to, nothing to make you try harder?
Forgot to mention that I loved your mentioning speed of light theories! My favorite part of doing research for my sci fi novel was reading physicists’ theories about the possibility of time travel as related to speed of light. As the velocity of an object approaches speed of light, time slows down. Turns out that scientists have noted that even astronauts traveling in the space shuttle – which moves incredibly fast, but nowhere near the speed of light – moved forward in time by a few nanoseconds. Time distortion occurred for those astronauts – only by about 0.001 percent, but enough to prove Einstein’s theories correct. Also, scientists were surprised to discover that inside the Bose Einstein condensate, light slows down and stops, and now some physicists are thinking that this discovery could possibly lead to the development of a time travel machine. Pretty weird and fascinating stuff. Hope I didn’t wander too much off-topic. It is very cool that you included a mention of speed of light in your Blog post today.
Talk about reaching for a huge goal – physicists who are actually developing and testing theories related to possible time travel are fascinating to read. They are incredible dreamers, and their books are filled with inspiration.
Oh, I also like your underlying point (I think) about envying a hyper-successful author. They've acheived something, but it is transitory, and has to do with their journey, not ours.
It's not like they've achieved the end-all and be-all of existence. They are still struggling like the rest of us. So jealous - although very hard to escape...is probably abit misplaced. Much better to concentrate on our own journeys.
Great post, great discussion. Thank you.
Thank you for this thoughtful post. I think all of us who write secretly hope (I know we do) that we will end up like King or Rowling. At this point in my life, I'm so far from contentment, it isn't even funny. But I keep striving and like you said, it's the striving that keeps us going.
People don't realize how difficult success can be - sometimes even more stressful than failure. After all, we can always blame that on someone else.
Success brings expectations, and that is often the hardest thing to deal with. That being said, people who are successful at being successful - I want to be one of them. :)
Striving is the drama of life, but often what we treasure most are the things we already have.
Sebastian Junger put it this way:
If you haven’t crossed over, you think the people that are well known have got something you want. And then when you get over there, you realize the things that give you pleasure are still all back there on the other side.
I've just finished reading about some of Rowling's plagiarism suits, and I'd think that having to constantly fend off grasping/greedy/delusional lawsuits would take at least a bit of the shine off world fame and fortune. Everybody has their crosses to bear.
I think the next novel idea is always just around the bend, waiting for an Author to chase it down.
I imagine once the high of accomplishment - after each successful completion - lasts only so long before a new project is needed to fill the void.
I hope someday I get to test that theory . .
..........dhole
Love your blog--great post
This kind of reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be enthusiastic about." --Charles Kingsley
Melissa D
Let me share a secret with you. After you've lived an exciting life, been around the world two or three times, and are satisfied that you don't really have anything left to prove, it wouldn't take a lot to become truly contented...and there's a lot to be said for contented. Getting just one piece published would just put the icing on the cake. Ambition's for the young. Great post.
We create our own happiness. Contentment and happiness can be attained whether the world inhales our every word or spits it out with distaste. Thanks for the reminder.
Great post and I love the photo.
Yosemite National Park?
I feel perfectly contented when writing.
Thank you for the good post again Nathan. Hearing about Rowling feeling that way is amazing. There will always be more for us to do, no matter how far we make it. I think it is true for most people.
In meeting a lot of authors, I've noticed that none of them have a lack of things to do. We have so many stories in our head, it would be impossible to write them all. There is no end to our imagination. If all of the world is a dream, then our dreams may be a world; what are books, but dreams?
Thank you for another wonderful read.
Draven Ames
Excellent post. In my journalist work I have met several celebrities and what always struck me, no matter what their field of fame, is that they are just people too. They have their everyday worries and cares - theirs may be different that ours but they have them just the same.
Thinking that those who have reached a higher pinnacle of success than the common folk are happier is giving into that old "grass is alwsays greener on the other side of the fence" philosophy or falling for the notion that money can buy happiness when, of course, it cannot.
Is it wrong that I feel like I've "made it" by being referenced in Nathan's blog?
In another life, I covered sports. One thing I noticed about all successful athletes is that there was no greater pressure than the pressure they put on themselves. It worked for and against them, helping them achieve their goals but leaving them unsatisfied that they weren't the greatest ever (or some other nonsense). Still, like many have said, what's life without goals?
Great words of inspiration, Nathan! It gives meaning to the unsettled feeling that we get. It means we still have so much more to do on this Earth. The race is not over - keep on running!!
I like what jewel fern said about striking a balance. you don't want a life without goals, without something to strive for. But a life in which you are always striving and never accomplishing is equally empty.
I think the pressure of living up to an expectation of maintaining a level of greatness that one has achieved pretty early in one's career must be very daunting.
Who wants to be perfectly contented? Where's the excitement in that? There will always be something great to chase around the bend.
Trust me. This is not a sentiment to share with your wife.
Writers like Stephen King and Jay Lake impress me because they keep writing no matter what life throws at them. King is going blind and Lake is battling cancer.
They refuse to be content with what they've done, but keep thinking about, working on, what could be next.
King says in his memoir/essay On Writing that he writes 2000 words per day, 6-7 days per week. He may have "made it" but his daily approach is "chop wood, carry water." Writing is what he does. "Being a writer" is not what he does. IMO.
I think it kind of comes under the category of, "I'll be happy when..."
I thought like that for a long time in many areas of my life. I'll be happy when I have a cool girlfriend. I'll be happy when I make xxxx amount of money. I'll be happy when I have big muscles and a six pack of abs.
The only problem with that kind of thinking, is that you miss out on the great things that life has to offer each and every day. It's a no-win, self-defeating mentality.
I applied it to writing, too. I'll only be happy when I'm published by a traditional publisher. I'll only be happy when I get critical acclaim as a writer. I'll only be happy if I can peck out 1,000 words per day.
The funny thing is, writing wise, when I removed all of those restrictions and expectations, writing became fun again. I actually wanted to do it and didn't feel disappointed or overwhlemed.
There is an ancient scripture that says "...but I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content."
This blog was an important reminder to me.
While being constantly drawn toward the Porch Light of "getting published" like a bug on a Summer's night, I must also avoid the "zapper" of unrealistic expectations that would leave me lying dead and underfoot on the porch as others fly by me on their way upward.
I must find balance between my inward and outward journeys in order to maintain my sanity! (and a stable day job.....) I must find my sweet spot where writing is for the joy of it, and not for it to feed me!
thanks, Nathan. And I enjoyed the guest posts last week. Saved some of them, too!
Excellent post, Nathan. I haven't been by in a while but a friend pointed me to you today, and boy am I glad she did. Wise words indeed!
I think yearning for some higher goal (my fingers keep typing gaol - hmm what does that mean about me?) keeps successful people sharp.
How often have you read the latest book from a 'made it' artist and wondered why they are just phoning it in.
No one is guaranteed that next book - maybe King and Rowling level authors get the next book, but if it's not great, they don't get another.
What I think is, if I get into the 'made it column' I would be considering retiring at the top, or finding a way to keep my ego hungry.
Thanks for the post
Before success the pressure is applied by yourself and after it's applied by everyone else. Just a thought.
Reality verses Illusion.
The Wave verses The Point.
That's why the art and business of writing can never be separated. Even the unpublished writer has to be clever enough to pay the rent and buy groceries.
I never met a rock star movie star or writer that wasn't struggling through that particular day I met them; whether fretting over the creative process or protecting their ability to engage in it by securing their economic priorities.
I pursue the Great American Novel.
I may never actually catch up to it similar to the beam of light allegory but the chase is a good and engaging kick that keeps me focused on thinking feeling growing and learning ever more precise ways of stating and achieving life portraits in words and thought-scapes.
"Some of us pursue perfection and virtue and if we're lucky, we catch up to it. But happiness can't be pursued. It either comes to your or it don't. You can always say, if only this and if only that, but if only is a state of mind that we get into when we feel deprived."
Jack Fate - Masked and Anonymous 2003
Cool. My new icon showed up.
That's a Blobfish. Not a Starfish or a Tuna.
I hope to write a great book someday. What aspiring writer does not? I wrote my first novel five years ago.I'm still learning the mechanics and rules of writing. of course I think my novels are interesting. Good?maybe. Great?possibly. I'm too close to tell.maybe if you have to ask,you aren't. I love to write and weave a story and I guess when all is said and done,that is what counts the most. However,I would be a liar if I said I didn't want to be as good or even better than Roberts,King,Poe,Rowling.Bottom line is A writer is judged by how many books they sell.They don't have to be a literary genius to write a bestseller or a technically perfect writer.But,they have to tell a damn good story. I will keep butt in chair,keep learning, and maybe someday Nathan will be commenting on my bestseller.
I personally think it would be a little terrifying to be so successful - EVERYONE will notice if you mess up or write something sub-standard. As for being perfectly happy having 'made it,' I think writing is a bit like falling in love. It's tempting to think that the perfect person is going to 'fix' everything and make us happy. But it never works that way. If you can't be happy as an obscure, unpublished writer chances are that fame and success aren't going to change anything.
I recently read that we need to remember that our leaders, idols and great writers are just people. When we make them more than that we are taking away the possibility that we could ever achieve their success.
Yup, you're right about the speed of light (I'm a physicist). As long as you are in an inertial (nonaccelerating) reference frame, you will always measure the same speed of light as anyone else in an inertial reference frame. Nice analogy!
Its the journey not the destination that brings happiness.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/20/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: You Tell Me, How to Write a Novel, Add a tag
The leaves are beginning to change, the days are getting shorter, and the air is filled with a faint whiff of "I'm going to write me a novel." Yes, it's nearly November, which means nearly time for NaNoWriMo, or National Novel Writing Month, wherein thousands of people around the globe attempt to write a novel in a month and opt for plot over pumpkin pie, turning points over turkey, and foreshadowing over football.
Are you participating? What do you think of NaNoWriMo? Is it a great opportunity to finally get over the hump and get that novel going? Or is writing best done when not in a mad dash?
Let this also serve as a preview for a NaNoWriMo themed week on the blog next week, wherein I will attempt to get those who are participating in the right frame of mind to write pages like they have never written pages before.
Yup. I'm participating. :)
I like it as an excuse to hole up for a month and put words on paper. Everyday life gets in the way for me the rest of the year. Nano's a convenient time to just be: "Look. Writing. Go away. You want me to /win/ don't you?"
Others step back in the face of a 'contest', and it makes it much much easier for me to claim time for one of my pre-planned projects. ^^
I HAVE to do NaNo. I've been participating for so long now it feels as much a part of November as Thanksgiving!
This will be my 6th NaNoWriMo, and I wouldn't miss it for the world.
Like Alii, I use NaNo as a time to put writing higher up the priority list than it is the rest of the year. It's also my favourite way to write the first 50,000 words of a first draft. I love spending November crazy, exhilarated, sleep-deprived, and amazingly creative - along with thousands of others doing the same thing. There's nothing else like it.
I'm doing it.
Just when I think I've got my own motivation for writing, and I've got my own habits and goals and timetables, something like summer comes along and knocks it all off track.
Then the first NaNo email lands in my inbox, and I'm slowly drawn back in.
My goal this time is to write something I like... and that I continue liking long enough to edit enough so it's smart enough for me to get the free proof copy from CreateSpace.
I'm participating! This will be my 5th year! It's a lot of fun and some great writing has come out of it. The only challenge is getting around to revising. Ugh.
According to Hemingway, "The first draft of anything is _ _ _ _," so why not? After all, Hemingway did pretty well for himself literature wise.
Absolutely.
NaNoWriMo is about as far from my normal writing MO as you can get. I write mostly flash fiction and poetry. I get very picky about minimalist and precise wording. I edit and re-edit as I go.
So, NaNoWriMo is like a month-long exercise in expanding my writing process horizons. I may not write anything in November I would ever consider sharing with another person, but every year I've participated, I've woken up on December 1 feeling like I've leveled up my writing-fu.
As a bonus, it's a great excuse to get out of doing Thanksgiving dinner dishes!
I'm doing NaNo for the first time! I'm using it as a chance to take a break from writing kids' stuff.
As a past marathon runner, I picture NaNo as the writer's version of completing 26.2 miles.
My goal is to apply the strategies I used for completing the Chicago Marathon to NaNo:
1) Keep the pace steady. No sudden spurts of energy only to exhaust yourself quickly.
2) Listen for the cheers of your supporters--you can accomplish a lot on the adrenaline rush you get from their encouragement!
3) Don't worry about how you look in the end as long as you finish.
4) Enjoy the little moments because before you know it, the race--I mean, month--will be over.
No. Never have and most likely never will play the NaNoWriMo game. Quality items aren't usually crafted in a condensed time period.
If it suits the person, they should go for it, but each of us should be aware of whether such an exercise is really helpful, or just a way to show you how so many words can be produced in a short period of time. It all depends on what your objective is in relation to NaNoWriMo. It may be encouraging to some, but to others, it's a waste of time.
Nathan, what do agents think of NaNoWriMo, aside from the fact that agents are sent many of these 'novels' after the hubbub dies down?
Definitely doing it! Last year was my first year and it was a revelation. Just sitting down and forcing myself to write and not worrying that everything is perfect changed the way that I write now for the better. I can't wait to do it again. If only I could decide on a story...
This will be my 7th NaNoWriMo, and I can't imagine November without it! NaNo taught me that I *could* write a novel, and I learned how to silence that devilish inner editor until the first draft is done. It even got me a copywriting job!
I am definitely doing this again. In fact, last year's novel is in its second round of editing and I've just realized how to revamp the entire beginning. This year's novel will be a futuristic dystopian and I'm very excited about it. I've found that NaNo really forces me to get the story drafted due to the challenge of the entire month.
Nope. I can start a book just fine, thank you. It's finishing it that causes me the most frustration. Life keeps interrupting my keyboard time. My plotting time (which happens when I'm driving, among other times) has far exceeded my needs in the last year and a half.
It frustrated me so much that I declared October FiThDaBoMo*. Due to being so ill writing hurt, I'm extending October's effort into November.
I tried doing NaNoWriMo twice. Unless I have another story trying to take over the current story's creative process, it does nothing for me. Mostly because I loose one whole week to the Thanksgiving holidays.^ Family is as important to me as writing.
---
*(Finish The [explicative deleted] Book Month.)
^ I'm convinced that the guys who came up with NaNoWriMo don't:
1) travel for the Thanksgiving holiday
2) cook and clean for the Thanksgiving holiday
3) do both
4) do either
Absolutely. NaNo #4 here, and I'm looking to keep up my perfect win record. I'm anxious about the story -- Is there too much? Will it be interesting? Can I finish in a month? -- but I look forward to the rush.
Heck yes I'm NaNo'ing. It'll be tough to win this year, I'm abroad and have lots of trips planned (all in Nov of course), but if I can't win I'm at least aiming for 30K.
Ok That's synchronicity. My blog on Nano went up today at Pen and Ink http://thepenandinkblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/write-novel-month.html.
I am on the 3rd revision of my Nano novel from last year and I still love the story.
Well...OF COURSE I AM!
silly question...
Wishing everyone the best literary luck!
I'm echoing T.Anne. I need to pump up the volume and double the word-count of my current draft. So much time and so little to do..... Reverse that.
I am participating and I am determined not to give up like I did last year. I think this is just the motivation I need to finally get started and I feel that I'm in the right mindset this year.
It doesn't work for me, but to each his or her own. Have fun!
I've done it (and won it) the past 2 years, so I think I have to continue the tradition. Just wondering how I'm going to fit it all in! Again.
I'll be taking part. I don't expect to get any brilliant writing out of it, but 1) it's fun, 2) I rarely write long things otherwise, and 3) it's fun!
Yes! I always experiment with something outside my comfort zone and genre during NaNoWriMo.
What confuses me is how people constantly belittle it as writing really fast and nothing can come of it.
Does anyone know any published writer with a good career, aside from the literary crowd, who writes less than 1500 words a day? Most write 2000-2500.
So why is it a "mad dash," LOL?
I am participating. I've a good start on the sequel to my book, which came out yesterday, and will use NaNo to complete it.
We hosted a half-marathon this month as a practice for Nano and, um, I've found I'm more of a sprinter than a marathoner. 400 meters (words) at a time, not 3,500. Good luck to everyone who can go the distance!
erica
My problem with NaNoWriMo each year as it comes around is that we have to start a new novel to participate. I'm usually in the middle of a novel when it comes around!
No. I'm already in the middle of one novel and don't want to start a new one, and I like my self-imposed word count goals more than NaNo's. Since it's only a deadline for the sake of being a deadline, it seems arbitrary to me. I'm a slow writer anyway, so I think forcing myself to do it without allowing time for revision would just frustrate and stifle me.
Wow. 127 comments. Crazy! I did the NaNoWriMo thang last year, and it was great for the writing muscle (not so great for the butt muscle). The best part of it for me, though, was a group of my writer friends and I shared our "last paragraphs of the day" at the end of every day, and the practice not only spurred us on, it made us salivate to see what would happen next in our colleagues' novels. I'm thinking of dedicating my blog to this practice (www.letstalkaboutwriting.com) for the next month just for the community atmosphere.
Yep, I'm in along with my 65 middle school students!
I'm in. And I'm going to do it this time, too.
I do NaBloPoMo (National Blog Posting Month) as there is no way I can write a book in November with Thanksgiving travel and Christmas shopping. Why isn't it a thing to write a book in January, Febuary or March when often there isn't a lot going on?
I think it's a good idea for those (like me) who have trouble pushing out 50 words in an hour. But every time I think about doing it I remember I have 9 kids and am not an absent father :-/
I did my own NaNoWriMo in Oct. last year and am on track to finish another novel by the end of this Oct. I plan to use Nov. as my editing/revision month. I think it's a very cool idea and don't understand why my inspiration keeps coming a month early!
I hate NaNoWriMo. And I am sure if I am working for an agent I will hate it even more. At my internship, the worst words I saw were "I wrote this during NaNoWriMo". All of them were horrible query letters. It makes everyone think they can just write a novel. . .and in a month at that. So many don't get that it is a great exercise, but it doesn't make you a writer and the first draft is not the last.
Yes, I'm in. This time with two kids under four, a P90X-obsessed husband, and a puppy in tow.
I enjoy writing like this. Get the plot down first, then go back and fill in with all the important character arc stuff. I love writing this way!
My first ever sci-fi adventure is about to begin...
I won't be doing it, simply because it wouldn't be too much of a challenge for me, and because there's already enough on my plate as it is. But I love seeing all the excitement about it, because this is really the first time I've been around people who've participated in it.
Good luck to everyone who is joining in!
Yes - I'm participating. Last year the experience really helped me to quiet my inner editor and learn to just write and get the foundation of the story on paper. I can't wait to see what I learn this year.
I've done NaNo for six years and complete three times. My first one took another two years to eidt and polish but I doubt I would have actually complete a novel in the first place had NaNo not inspire me to push myself.
I'll probably have a go at it, if not just to briefly try a totally different way of writing. But it'll probably end up being NaNoWriDay for me. I'll be too eager to get back to polishing the story I've been working on for the past 4 years (which I'm kind of absorbed in atm because I can see the light at the end of the tunnel - I could have it finished in as little as two years).
No way. I can get motivated by myself. I don't like to be rushed! It really works for other people, though.
I read that Grisham still thinks A Time to Kill is his best novel. He commented that with that first one he was able to tinker until he had it where he wanted it. The Firm became an instant craze. He had the previously small-published A Time to Kill available for republication to satisfy the eager masses. I think he said he wrote The Pelican Brief in two months to satisfy the burgeoning crowds still wanting more. I agree that Kill is his best, but Brief ain't bad for a two-monther. He has my amazement and respect.
Wasn't he the Japanese pitcher for the New York Yankees a few year back?
I am taking part. I have done script frenzy before but this will be my first Nano. I usually write my books very quickly as a first draft then spend months polishing them. I don't plot so the sooner I get it on paper before I loose the flow the better. I plan to write a sci-fi instead or romantic suspense so it should be a challenge.
I love NaNoWriMo so much that I used it as an incentive to finish editing another novel by the end of September! I agree with the other participants: It's fun to do something crazy with a bunch of other crazy people, and NaNo is a great way to get through the first draft without a lot of editing and waffling.
I'm debating NaNoWriMo. I already have an agreement with one of my good writing friends that we want to also make November a NaNoSubMo and pepper our newly revised queries and final drafts to our dream agents (who haven't already rejected us).
BUT I do have a YA I'm working on that I could use a push on. It wouldn't be eligible for winning NaNoWriMo, though. I do wish the OLL had a "supporter" slot for those of us who might have close to 50k left to write on a WIP... The Worcester, MA chapter is wonderful and I got a lot of writing done at our write-ins, and met some wonderful people.
I'm still thinking...
I have participated in the past but won't be this year. In addition to moving in the middle of the month, my son is having a minor surgery. As much as I'd like to make time to write, I just have too much going on.
So I'll be cheering everyone on instead! Good luck, WriMos!
This year I'll be passing on NaNoWrioMo in order to participate in GiantResearchPaperWriMo. It's probably not going to be nearly as much fun, so you crazy kids write some fun dialogue for me. I'll be footnoting into the wee hours of the night instead.
I LOVE NaNoWriMo. It firmly set me on the writing track, and every year, I meet a bunch on new and awesome writers.
The truth is, I do more than NaNoWriMo. I help organise it, as a Municipal Liaison. :) Some of my best friends are writers from my region.
So in short... lots of words, lots of fun and lots of friends!
You bet! This is my year of crazy schemes. I ran my first marathon 10 days ago, so now it's time for my first novel. Tomorrow I'm going to set up my workspace in anticipation of November 1.
I'm finally participating in nano officially for the first time after watching on the sidelines for the past three years. I'm hoping that it will give me the discipline I need to churn out pages instead of sitting around thinking about writing like I usually do. I can't wait to participate in write-ins and meet some great people.
Definitely. This is my 5th nanowrimo and I'm totally looking forward to it.
This year it's going to be all about silliness. I'm still rewriting last year's nanonovel and it's making me stress/hate writing. So I'm taking Nov off of that novel to write and (hopefully) to remember how much I love writing. That is what nanowrimo is to me. A month to give yourself to the love of writing.
Yes, I love NaNo! It forces me to write, write, write... and the result is that I'm more productive for months afterward.
I'm going to try this year. I've never done it before, and I don't think I can do it, but I'll try. :)
I've been doing NaNoWriMo for the past 8 years, meeting the challenge all but one of those years. My very first year I wrote "And then there was Sam" and am happy to report that after some major rewrites, getting my skills honed, learning to listen to my voice and not the voices of the masses, am just about ready to seek representation.
I was tempted to say no, not this year. But all the other years have given me some great starting points and so I've decided to start on a new genre for me, but one that I've been wanting to try my hand at, literary fiction.
So the short of it - aw, hell yeah!
Now here's a question for you, Nathan, is it better for an aspiring author querying a first novel to leave out any mention of participating in NaNoWriMo as a whole in the world of literary agents and publishing or can it be seen as a plus?
I think it's a great idea if it gives people the motivation they need to dedicate a month to writing. Since I'm working on two w-i-p I try to write as much as I can anyway.
I am definately participating this year. It's only my second year and I'm revved up to use the extra motivation to finally finish off this idea that's been floating in my head for forever.
It's just, the sheer community, the tacit competition with a deadline. It's good practice for getting a rough draft put out there so you actually have something to work with as far as editing and revision goes.
I am definitely doing Nano! This will be my second year and I do it to fall in love with writing all over again. After eleven months of editing, agonizing, and some of the other not fun parts of being a writer, it's amazing to just sit down and write with reckless abandon. Not to mention the rush of accomplishing something that seemed impossible thirty days ago. I love it!
I just signed up today - I've turned out 50,000 words in a month before, though it was total crap. Maybe this time I'll get a little substance out of it!
Yes! For the first time. The last four years I've been in Law School and never had the oportunity to do this because my finals were close to November. But I'm done with school and I'm so excited to start writing this novel. Now let's see if I'm equally enthusiastic by the end of November.
Heck to the yes! :-)
I'll be writing my sequel this year to the novel I worked on in last year's Nano!
I don't know...there's just something exhilarating in the idea of the camaraderie of writing a mad dash with thousands of others. Somehow, for 30 days, the world becomes smaller and warmer and full of beautiful words.
I started doing NaNoWriMo about 6 or 7 years ago and decided to do something completely different that year. I went for urban fantasy, instead of the epic fantasy I'd been writing since high school. To my surprise, I turned out the novel that I think is closest to publishable right now -- though it still needs more revision, three revisions later. So I'm definitely doing it again this year, and I'm planning to shift sideways into paranormal suspense this year. :)
My two favorite tools for NaNo are index cards and the Outlining a Novel in an Hour by Chris York.
I have done it three times. My first NaNo book got published....Love You, Love Your Work, Let's Do Lunch!....I think it is great fun. If anyone wants to be my buddy I am
michelinewrites
This said, I have read some negative comments, it doesn't mean it is bad just because it comes from NaNo, I have written and published both ways.
Big fan of NaNo here. My first YA novel just came out last month and it was also my first attempt at NaNo. Yes, it's a mad dash, but heaven knows I need something to get me in gear.
I'm a nanner and I'm proud!
Although I pity the December deluge agents must receive. Hmm, November's probably a great time to query though...
I'm not planning to participate as I have other projects going on.
Personally, I don't care for NaNo. I think it's a good tool for those who seek the camaraderie or who want the motivation, but heck ... I'm writing all the time anyway. What's another month to me?
In 2009, I lasted for about 25,000 words and quit a few days before thanksgiving. Participating worked this bit of magic: it turned me into a daily writer. This year, I have a clearer view of my project so I am gearing up.
I love NaNo! I participated last year for the first time and came in just under 100k (am now trying to edit it down to the 80's to make it more marketable. But I love the freedom of not trying to have it perfect on the first draft. You can always fix a scene that doesn't work, but you can't fix what was never written.
Yes, doing it. This will be my seventh Nanowrimo and one was done in Edinburgh, Scotland. Very interesting doing 'National' Novel Writing Month in a foreign country.
To be honest, I don't find that my Nano wins are publishable quality by the end of the month, more a rough draft really. For this reason, I am deserting the Pantsers this year (those who write by the Seat of Their Pants) for the Outliners.
Am having a fine time with the plot holes. Ha.
Absolutely yes to NaNo. I've done it six times and seem to win every other year, so this one needs to be the one that breaks that streak--I"m shooting for two wins in a row this time.
Why NaNo?
1) The 1600 + words are close to what I'd like my daily count to be anyway. Most professional writers do at least 1000 a day.
2) At work, we have slightly less-busy-than-usual period around November, which allows me to get a first draft done then and edit the rest of the year. Editing is much easier than writing for me during the busy season.
3) It's great to meet fellow writers in a month-long celebration of writing for its own sake.
4) It's a wonderful reminder that writing is FUN.
5) I love the feeling of committing to an intense, month-long writing exercise.
I've done Nano for the last several years. It is like a sort of addiction. It works for me.
Awww. How nice. I won't be participating in NaNoWriMo, but I'd like to write pages like never before. Looking forward to some mentorship there. :)
I've done Nano for the last few years. It is fun, and I enjoy it.
Yes. This will be my first year. Looking forward to the rush of writing fast.
It's early November already? Thought it was still late October...
I will be participating for the second time. Last year I learned to my surprise that I can write horror! But the best part of the experience for me was the freedom to write as poorly as I wanted, while at the same time getting some much needed bootcamp style butt-in-chair-and-write discipline. Booya!
Yes, this will be my first year. Need to finish a first draft. It's exciting. I'll be doing part of my writing using paper and pen in INDIA of all places. Will miss Nathan's encouraging tips given in November, therefore looking forward to reading all I can before November 1st!
I'm trying NaNo for the first time this year. I'm excited to see what it's like. But then again, I'm kind of weird in the way I write. I always write books in a crack fueled mad dash -- without really doing crack, I swear. :D
Both of my first two books were each written in a month. Does it make for crazy long edits? Well, yes. But it's how I work. I want to get the ideas out fast and in one piece.
I think that's why I usually paint with acrylic paints. I love the look of oil paintings more than anything, but they take too long and make it impossible for me to finish a painting in just a couple of sittings.
I love Nano. Yes, I'm doing it this year. November is by far my most productive month of the year.
No. Not doing this year as I am finishing up a several short stories. I did it last year, though. My 13 yr old daughter and a friend are giving it a go, though.
Not sure. Did it four times with success, tried a fifth but failed. I am fortunate to be joining a few other writers [waving at you, you know who you are] for four days at a writing retreat early in the month. Can I pound out 12,500 words a day for four days? We shall see. We shall see.
I'm actually using NaNoWriMo as NaNoEdMo this year because I'm a full time night student and full time day worker, so finding the motivation to continue my revision process has been difficult lately. And I can't start anything new until the revision is out of the way! I'm hoping to get through my final set of revisions(as I've been working on the process for over a year now) in this next month. We'll see how that goes...:D
Yes, with my two kids in one combined project. We're not officially signing up, but will be using the site's prompts just for fun.
My son used to be a great writer, but years of writing only perfect 5 paragraphs essays in school have left his writing, hmmm, compact. Short. Detail-free. Formulaic. Bleh.
I'm hoping to just push and push the amount he can write, without care towards the actual story we're writing, or the mechanics. Hoping to have some fun.
I'm participating for the first time. Can't wait to start as I already have the idea for the story I'm going to write during the month.
I'll be doing it for the 5th time - I have 4 previous NaNo novels in various states of completeness lying around on my computers - spent about 3 years editing the first one, but only 2 on the second so I think I'm finally getting into the swing of things!!
Where I live (in Edinburgh) we have a real world NaNo group with lots of write-ins and other meetings, and I find that a huge help as I don't meet many other writers in the normal course of events.
This will be my second time participating. Part of the reason I'm doing it this year (now that write-a-novel is already crossed off the to-do list) is because I'm actually quite a slacker when it comes to writing, and NaNo motivates me with a non-self-imposed deadline. Although I can see this changing in the future, right now it doesn't matter so much that what I am producing is rather horrible, what matters is that I'm writing
First did this in 2007. It is a great way to get the juices flowing. I love the Pep talks, love monitoring the word count of my buddies and thinking - damn! I need to catch up with them! ;-)
The energy of the community is a wonderful thing because you get so isolated writing alone. Like Bush said, "Bring it on!"
I've participated every year since 2003. I haven't WON every year but I at least made some kind of effort. I'm going to be doing it this year but my goal is a little different. 50k became too easy for me. Last year I did 75k. I'm upping the ante again this year to 100k in November.
No, I don't have copious amounts of spare time. I just have no social life during November. LOL
Certainly I am participating! I love the craziness of it and the deadlines (you know, the whooshing sound they make as they pass me by). This year it'll be extra fun for me - I will be teaming up with my son to write together. However unusable the thing will end up being, I know I will love every moment of writing it.
I'm not officially participating this year, but I'm setting a goal to finish my first draft of my WIP by the end of November (I've got about 20K words to go), so I'll still be writing like a crazy person.
Never heard of this before, but it sounds like a terrific idea for all us procrastinators. Only problem, now I'm in the mood but I can't start for over a week.
Mad dash - ridiculous. It's a lifestyle, nothing you can do in a month.
Like Gladwell said, 10,000 hours.
I don't plan on participating.
Personally, I think its much ado about nothing.
If you're gonna write and if you're motivated to write and are writing for the other 11 months of the year, this will not make any difference.
Unless you're one of those people who are actually gonna stop what you're currently working on just to start up something new for this non-contest.
In any event, it will give me a heads up to avoid any topics related to this in my reader for the next month or so.
I'm participating after a two-year hiatus. Excited.
I kind of gave a quick glance through the comments and didn't see that anyone has plugged it yet, but we've already got a thread going for NaNoWriMo on Nathan's forums, everyone should come chat and keep us all updated on your status! I'm not participating in NaNo this year, but I will be cheerleading for everyone here in the forums.
I'm not good at the mad dash. I don't work that way. I need a month to dream and plot, and then about 3 months to write. I don't want to do just to do it when it's not how I work best.
This is my first year doing it and I'm kind of scared. I'm really trying to test myself to see if I *can* write 50,000 words in a month. We'll see!
WoOoOoOoOow.... o__O
Is this a real thing? I feel tickly little flutterings in my tummy already. I'm the slowest writer in the wooorld. No really, its true. It took me over a year to get down the first draft of one novel. Half a year later, I'm still rewriting it.
I have a sneaking suspicion my thoughts won't be able to keep up with my mad typing, thus alot of rewriting. But I don't care. I like rewriting. Makes me feel like I earned it. (^_^)
Bring it on, November! Wheeeee!
I just had an agent request a full manuscript, and it will be several weeks before I get rejected, uh, get a decision. So it will be moe like NaNoWritheMo.
NaNo - still undecided. My writing has been much, much better when I've used the "write, write, delete, write, think, delete, write, write, move/cut-and-paste, think, write, delete, write, write, think, write" method, which isn't really conducive to banging out pages. On the other hand, maybe if I did just try banging out pages, I'd have more to work with and the "write, think, write" phase could come later, with less deleting and more cut-and-pasting and rephrasing.
Maybe if I can reconcile myself to a much, much rougher draft than I've been writing, I can do NaNo.
And a week of pre-NaNo on the blog? I am PSYCHED!
Instead of participating in Nanowrimo, I'm going to be entering the `National Finish Your Own Novel` month - NaFfYourOnol for short.
If I can add 50,000 words to my novel in progress I will be very pleased...
It's seems dawnting and probably not, but I'm curious. How do you sign up?
nope. i never have and i don't anticipate ever doing so.
i have a 'long haul' approach to my writing; i don't try to rush too much when i'm coming up with characters, situations and scenes. the writing comes without the imposition of a 30 day deadline.
(i do give myself deadlines when i'm making headway in a story, but they're my own deadlines for what feels reasonable and doable to me)
-- Tom
I'm so not participating, but it's more personal than anything. I'm not the kind of person who can actually write a novel in a month, and if I can sit down enough to write at least 50-60K words, they won't come out even okay to me, and if it doesn't, I'll delete it without a second thought.
No, no, no, no. I'd rather write four to five chapters in my current WIP with proper research while promoting my upcoming YA novel (release in Jan, so there's a lot of work to do) and giving it a last round of revision before finished copies are printed and studying and working on my college essays and editing for the magazine I work for AND AND AND AND... Uff.. the list is endless. No Nano for me, not now, not ever.
I want to, but can't really do it this year. Too busy with school and other things. Have had a blast the last two years doing it, though nothing really worth adding to, cleaning up, and sending to an agent yet.
Good luck to those who do take a shot at it.
I won't be participating in NaNoWriMo. I think one should have some sort of minimal plan in place (outline, character bios, etc) before attempting such a monumental task. I've been working on a novel for more than two years,part-time, but steadily, and have been overwhelmed with the time and effort I've put in just to get it to a decent 'first draft' (in my mind. It's more like a polished second draft, but needs about 25K words cut out of it.)
Maybe I'll have an idea, a plan, an outline and a work schedule all set by next Novemeber.
ChiTrader
I am getting back on the NaNo Wagon this year. I've participated four times before, but never finished. However, I now have two completed mss because of NaNo. So even when I didn't win, I did.
I've done it the previous 2 years, and will participate again this year. The 50,000 words is more than I'm capable of in a month but I didn't sweat that. I don't expect to complete an entire first draft. I still enjoyed participating.
This year I'm trying to prepare an outline before Nov. 1, so I have a flight plan. I've always done seat-of-the-pants writing up till now, and it can get frustrating. At some point you need to know your destination. Who knows? The 50,000 words may be possible for me with an outline.
I don't see why some people assume that the writing done during NaNoWriMo is necessarily poor quality. I've found that more sustained writing, every day, trying to meet that word goal, is better in quality. Either way, you'll need revision when the first draft is done.
Donna
Yes, I am participating. God some ideas already... Your blog series next week sounds great!
I'm participating. It gives me an opportunity to try and write new things and play with ideas I normally wouldn't touch.
Definitely IN. I love the mojo created with everyone supporting each other (and pushing each other) and I've come to believe I end up with a cleaner novel if the first draft is written fast and holes filled in later, than if I write slowly and have the leeway to lose my spot now and again.
The real work is in the REwrite anyway.
Absolutely! I enjoyed the process last year, though I suspect a lot of my "success" (if you want to call a draft a success) was due to the fact that I had a fairly comprehensive outline and character profiles already drawn up.
I've been mentally composting my 2010 NaNo idea since the summer and have been enjoying the research. I plan on spending this upcoming last week pulling my outline together and taping it on my wall.
50K words isn't impossible! I plan on doing it, hosting my mom for 2 weeks, hosting Thanksgiving, and, God willing, watching the Yankees in the World Series. It can be done!
I tried Nanowrimo last year and didn't really get very far. THis year, I'm going to have an outline and a character bible prepared ahead of time, then I can just write the thing.
NaNoWriMo, like anything, can be a great tool when used properly. I've unfortunately witnessed it used the wrong way, as well, but I think I've made it into something beneficial. This is my fourth year participating in NaNoWriMo, and I've learned the following from doing the event:
What NaNoWriMo is depends mostly on how it is approached. A lot of people approach it like a sprint. Start out quick as a shot, and race to the finish. When done, stop running. It doesn't matter if the novel isn't finished, the race is over when the allotted time is up.
For me, I look at NaNoWriMo as a faster jog in a year-round marathon. I do my best to write every day, so when November comes, I just pick up the pace a little. After November, it's back to the usual pace of writing and editing. In all of my NaNo years, I have always won the race, but, more importantly, I have kept writing the novel until it was complete, even if it took me almost to the next November.
My first NaNoWriMo back in 2007 is what got me on the path to a writing career. I had always had this vision of becoming a writer "some day" and would only occasionally write in chunks. NaNo really nailed home that I needed to write every single day to chip away at a novel, and actually get somewhere.
NaNo is a great opportunity to make an intense push on a work, especially on something that has been percolating for awhile. This year I haven't cleared other projects out of the way first, but I do have one that's been hiding in the recesses of my mind gradually inching its way forward, and I'm going to take this opportunity to see where it's been growing while out of sight. I'm excited, and am ready for the push.
I participated 4 years in a row, skipped it last year because I was finishing my latest novel, and will have to skip it again this year because I'm STILL finishing that same novel...
I would like to... I did last year... but it's just not happening this time. Life is way too crazy for that kind of intense writing. Good luck to those who are!
I'll be writing it "on the side" as I continue to lay the foundation for my next novel. Even have a story outlined for it. :-)
I will be participating in my first NaNoWriMo this year!
My sense (without having done it before) is that NaNoWriMo can be a great motivational tool to a writer when used appropriately – to get your ass in the seat long enough to pound out that first draft. I’ve been toying with my story’s concepts for months now and have spent October writing out an outline to work from so that I have a solid direction to work from. If I stick to my plan, I’ll take a break from it in December to regain some perspective (and catch my breath) and then start delving into revisions in January.
You definitely have to be mindful of how you use NaNoWriMo, though. A few weeks on Jeopardy one of the contestants proudly proclaimed that he had done NaNoWriMo FIVE times! (I think it was five.) He seemed to think this was an amazing feat in itself, but when probed more by Mr. Trebec, it did not sound like his merit had any merit other than its 50,000-word length. To each his own, I suppose. But if you’re a serious writer looking to create a serious work, then like just about anything else, you’ll need to use NaNoWriMo mindfully for what it is … a tool. How helpful it is depends completely on you.
It's Nano time!! I think No plot? No Problem! is the best book for writing I've ever come across, and I will be participating in Nano this year in the hopes of writing the sequel to the novel I wrote in April/May last year using the Nano method! I wholeheartedly agree with Chris Baty - the only thing that stops me from writing is the lack of a deadline!
The first time I did NaNo, I got a serviceable first draft of a novel - 94,000 words (it's less now). I won't try that again, but it does surprise me that people think you can't get a working draft of your novel done in a month. I knew the shape, characters, what had to happen, etc. I suppose one could start blind and try to get 50k words, but I don't know anyone who has gone into NaNo with no preparation.
Second time, I got to the middle of a novel, and it will need more revision, because I was trying something new.
I will participate this year, but I'm not starting a new project; I'm finishing one. I'm writing along with my friends who ARE starting their new novels. Not exactly what the rules say, but as there is no "prize" or real competition, I figure there's no harm in using it as a motivational tool.
This will be my fifth Nano. As a few people mentioned here... I don't think I would have had as much drive as I do now to be a writer without the push of my first Nano. It re-energized my life-long goals and turned work into something fun and challenging - plus it gives a deadline to those of us who do not have current ones!
Instead of starting a new novel this year, I will be working on my WIP. Some might consider this cheating. I consider it utilizing a relevant source to make my words go even further.
Good luck to everyone!
Did Nano last year and loved it, as grueling as it was. I would love to do it again this year, but probably can't swing it for various reasons. I'm hoping to participate again next year.
I may do an unofficial thing, though, and write like a mad woman off the books.
I would, but I just started one on Monday and won't be done until probably November 18th. I'm gonna try to write a novel a month for the next 3 months. MG, YA, and a supernatural mystery. All relatively short, but still ... The first one took me a year.
sure am! I've been in this weird rut where I'm having trouble writing because I'm too worried about whether it's any good or not. So I took a month off completely and will start again in Nov. I think it will be a perfect method to get me writing stuff I want to write instead of stuff I want people to read.
I'm not entering for real this year since I never finish and I have a bazillion+ things to do over the next month or so, but I will be on the sidelines cheering on the scribbling mob.
I adore hanging out on the NaNo online forums, it's awesome to get in touch with so many like-minded lunatics...er...literary geniuses.
However, I'm intensely schizoid and consider writing to primarily be a solitary activity. I can barely write when my roommate is home, much less as a "team" sport...so the mechanics of NaNo (write-ins, etc...) really don't do much for me.
I already write in NaNo-like spurts throughout the year though, so I'm covered as far as the lunacy goes.
I wish I could but I'm in college and never have the time.
no - just working away on what i was already working on... but THE AWESOME GIANTS won't let me concentrate on writing!
The idea of writing a novel in one month's time overwhelms me, but I think I would do wrong to judge someone's creative process and the quality of work it is capable of producing. While some may write like Van Gogh painted--vigorous and quick (with genius and gusto!)--I, for one, will continue to work like Cezanne, who painted the same mountain hundreds of times so that he could know it.
This will be my very first NaNo ever! Can't wait to go to write-ins and meet other NaNo-ists.
This will be my 8th NaNoWriMo. Four of those years I made it to 50K. All four are decent rough drafts--that is to say, equal parts error and possibility.
In addition to participating, I am my area's Municipal Liaison. My NaNo season starts in August with event planning and doesn't stop until mid-December.
The biggest tip I offer my Wrimos is, "Don't expect to end up with you can sell. Aim for something you can edit."
I'm most likely taking this year off ... but only so that I can devote November instead to trying to find an agent for the novel whose first draft I wrote in last year's NaNoWriMo. I've done NaNo in three of the last five years, and it's been an absolute blast each time. Each book I've written has been less awful than the last, and I've met a bunch of really fun and fantastic people and had great conversations about writing. I'd highly recommend it for anyone who thinks, as I did once, that they can't possibly ever write a novel.
I haven't the time to participate. (Unless I wanted to just set myself up for failure.) I'm in school full-time and working, not to mention church and church activities.
I'm so doing it! Last year at this time I wrote my first novel. Over the last year, I polished it and submitted queries (just this week). I'm now writing the second in the series as well as another YA novel.
"foreshadowing over football"--blaspheme! Nothing over football! Nothing!
I can't decide if I should do it.
I blogged about my indecision.
http://addictedtoheroines.blogspot.com/2010/10/to-nano-or-not-to-nano.html
Yes. If I were Rowling, I wouldn't trade it in for anything either.
I love the idea, as long as the folks participating don't think it's finished when Nov. 30 rolls around. I expect my word count to be up, and only hope that it's not just the quantity the NaNo folks promote, but also quality. Really, it's just giving me motivation to work on something that's been rattling around in my head for a few months and I haven's bothered putting to paper yet. Should be that sadistic type of fun that we all secretly enjoy and never admit to.
Dear Nathan,
Yes, absolutely! I love the camaraderie that NaNo affords me. Writing is a lonely, solitary art (sorry for the seeming redundancy; lonely speaks to the inward experience of writing, and solitary to the outward experience ). It really feels so much better when you're slogging away at your keyboard with (probably) millions of other NaNoers (you know they are in the same boat).
I wrote my first novel when someone in my Writer's Group told me about NaNoWriMo (2006). Being the dutiful writer that I am, I researched Christ Baty, purchased his book, and prepared myself for one of the newest and greatest adventures of my life.
I did not succeed the first two years. I wrote a novel, but it took me 6 weeks, not the 30 days NaNo requires. But the elation I felt carried me through to the next year where I started another novel (I didn't finish it because I went outside of my comfort zone and tried to write a thriller. I spent precious hours researching guns, bombs, and spy stuff, and not enough time writing.)
Year 3, my 16 year old daughter, also a member of my Writer's Group, decided to NaNo with me. Well, it worked!! (WE BOTH FINISHED!) Everyday we would see how far the other got, check each other's numbers, encourage and discuss characters, it was a fabulous experience.
Since beginning Nano I have become more prolific at writing. I have written several novels (finished and unfinished), I have over a hundred writing ideas with outlines and characters, and dozens of short stories and poems. One year I wrote 35 short stories. It's true! In my Writer's Group, you don't come to a meeting empty handed! :)
The quality of writing you produce doing NaNo varies. If you are a ticky perfectionist, you will be challenged by NaNo. (Challenged to finish that is). If you are a get-it-all-down on paper kinda' person (like me), then you can easily go back and edit later or during NaNoEdMo :)
I hope that answers your inquiry. This year will be year 5 for me and I am so excited!
Best regards and thank you for all of your wonderful emails, I often share them with my group.
Laura
I'm in! And this weekend is going to be dedicated to rounding up some characters to have fun with for the month of November. I'm posting writing prompts for NaNo at my site, if anyone is looking for inspiration. http://wrightingwords.wordpress.com
Yes. I write all year long, but I am a freelance editor by profession, and it's hard to leave that at the door when I'm working at a normal pace. In the November maelstrom, my internal editor takes a nice, long vacation. Plus it's fun!
I'm kind of annoyed by people who "hate" NaNo because they feel like it's some kind of affront to their delicate writing sensibilities. NaNo wasn't created as a way to get writers writing publishable novels. It's a fun exercise for anyone who wants to do something crazy for the sake of it. A lot of people who do NaNo don't write at all outside of November. There's nothing wrong with that. If NaNo was selling itself as a Become A Writer Quick scheme I could see people slagging it - but that's not what it is.
Anyway, this will be my 9th year. I'm handwriting, something I've always wanted to try.
I LOVED Nanowrimo, last year, I had talked about writing a novel for years but it was not unitil I participated in NANO that I actually did. A time I will never forget, tiring though, I didn't actually start until the 6th of November. Will give it a shot again this year!!
I'm going to try it again this year. The first year I signed up, I "won" (2004 or 2005, I think), but I haven't been able to participate since.
This year, come hell or high water, I'm doing it! I've already started my pre-planning: getting to know my characters, getting to know my setting, doing some plot outlining.
I can hardly wait to get started!
I did the NaNo for the first time last year (but only got 25K written) and plan to try again this year.
I have a plot and characters in mind and am excited to get started.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/19/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Jonathan Franzen, Add a tag
Whew! Back in the office, where I returned to the sound of 421 queries simultaneously shouting "Hi! Hi! Where have you been?!" from my Inbox. Needless to say, query response time is going to be delayed for a while. Not least of which due to the monumental jet lag that led me to arrive at the office at 6:15 this morning since, hey, I was wide awake anyway!
Also, while away I entered the ranks of those who have read Jonathan Franzen's FREEDOM. Loved it. Seriously. That guy really knows human beings. Frankly I'm surprised he can walk down the street with that much awareness of what makes every single person around him tick. It's no wonder he loves bird watching.
But more on that when my brain knows what time it is.
Lastly, a major THANK YOU to the incredible lineup of guest posters for their amazing series of posts. I don't know that this blog has had a better week in its history. Thank you thank you.
Guest bloggers WERE great, but I'm also happy you're back! (^_^)
Welcome back, Nathan. Now, go get some rest!
I have to agree, the guest bloggers were very good to read.
Welcome back!
Welcome back, Mr. Bransford! (I'm trying to earn brownie points because my query is somewhere in your inbox).
I really enjoyed learning from, and being entertained by, your guest bloggers.
Hi, Nathan,
Welcome back! Wow, showing up at work at 6:15 in the morning just because you’re wide awake – that is some jet lag! I just got back from a long weekend across the country in Southern California and only had mini-jet-lag, which involved 12 hours of sleep followed by a nap a few hours later.
I felt the same way after reading FREEDOM. Jonathan Franzen is so brilliant with so much insight into human beings at all stages of life in vastly different settings ... and, oh my God, he sees so much of where the world is really at and where we might be headed, I wondered how he even functions. I found it interesting that practically every discussion about FREEDOM on the Internet completely avoids the information inside the actual novel, FREEDOM. Maybe it’s too frightening for most people to discuss. Most of the discussions have been about his brouhaha with Oprah, his curmudgeonly personality (to which I always want to respond: Have you even read the book? Try living inside Franzen’s head for a while and see how happy-go-lucky you feel.), how President Obama purchased the book on his vacation, and the incident in which Franzen’s glasses were stolen right off his face. Sigh. It’s like there’s a rule: Discuss FREEDOM without ever discussing the actual pages of FREEDOM.
Guest bloggers were AWESOME, but we are glad to have you back!!! And yes, FREEDOM is amazing.
chaseholland.blogspot.com
Glad to have you back! It's so wonderful that you take the time to find subs for your blog instead of letting it run dry for a week. What would we do?! O_O
Welcome back Nathan.
I have to say what others have said...the guest bloggers were awesome.
thanks for keeping us entertained and educated while you were gone.
L
Welcome back! Must have crossed a few time zones if you've got jet lag. It took me a couple of days when 9 time zones were involved.
The guest bloggers were great and diverse in their postings. It wasn't you, Nathan, but they kept us reading this blog while you were away.
Welcome back!
Here's to hoping your body and brain can be one again.
Home sweet home...
Welcome back!
Great job in selecting your line-up of guest bloggers.
Welcome back--take your time on those queries:)
Welcome back!
In the office at 6:15? You are doing nothing to dispel the rumor that you're a robot. Humans simply cannot function at that hour; I'm pretty sure it's coded into our DNA..er... maybe it's the RNA...um... NBA... AT&T... something.
Welcome back! The guest bloggers were great!
I hope you enjoyed some delicious coffee or beer. Or both.
Freedom is now in my hands (thanks to the Dad having just finished it and lending me his copy). I'm excited. Except without an exclamation point.
The guest writers were wunderbar!
Welcome back! Sounds like your day's as busy as mine.
Freedom is a long book. Hope there was some romance on this trip too :)
Yay, you're back!
Though the guest boogers were wonderful, we're glad to have you back! :3
Welcome back Nathan. I just got to 2004 in Freedom. I know that I am only a third through it but WOW. How can one person be that amazingly talented?
Welcome back! I hope you feel refreshed and recharged. As a settling back in tip, I highly recommend chocolate to support you through the rough re-adjustment to local time zone phase you'll be experiencing about now.
Thanks for organizing such great guest bloggers, they were fantastic.
And again, welcome back!
Thanks for not leaving us hanging. The guest bloggers were great.
And yeah, FREEDOM was one of the best books I've read in a year of very, very good books. I don't think there's a topic related to modern life it didn't touch in some way.
We all missed you. The guest bloggers were wonderful but it is good to have you back.
As my good friend Moyrid said up there, we missed you. I was going to say exactly what she said, we loved the guest bloggers (I learned a thing or two), but it's nice to have you back.
(and she really is my good friend)
Yay, Nathan's back. I hope you had a wonderful time on your vacation, and you're all rested and refreshed (aside from jetlag).
From our side - I agree with others - you were missed! It was generous and kind of you to feature guest bloggers - they were terrific, and it was lots of fun reading them.
But it's very nice to have you back.
Welcome back, Nathan!
Wow, those guest bloggers were amazing. Definitely something for everyone in those posts. I read them religiously. You should go away more often!
Just kidding. We're glad you're back!
I can't believe you LEFT right when I came to SF for Bouchercon. I'm trying not to take it personally. I did have fun raising a ruckus with one of your clients, though. :)
WELCOME HOME!
Could you please find a tiny second to check out my blog on my second book:
fliestohoney.blogspot.com
i think you kinda want to...
Elle
I haven't read Freedom but I bought one of his earlier works last week at the Strand when I was in NY.
Nathan who? The name does ring a bell...Oh, yes, the agent type person.
Jetlagged and into work with no sleep!? I had to take a nap after just READING that.
I get jetlagged from walking. Walklag. Maybe I should stop walking across time zones...
I did miss your posts, Nathan. And I'm probably the only one who hasn't read anything the guest bloggers had to say. I took the opportunity to read Freedom instead.
Welcome back! Oddly, I always have worse jet-lag flying east than I do coming back west. I always seem to have these super-long flights that take 30 hours with layovers, so flying east and losing hours with each time zone really kills me. Anyhow, hope you feel better soon.
Hey! I'm glad you're back, Nathan. Even though we don't know each other I feel like I know you. I know your words and some of your thoughts at least.
And, yes, thank YOU to all the brilliant guest bloggers. Wow. Had a fun time reading their posts and learnt such a lot.
Is Freedom really so incredible? Then I must read it. And thanks for the heads up on it. No one I know in this tiny retirement-like village reads anything like that so all I know about contemporary, amazing lit comes pretty much from this blog.
Mood: feeling happy and peaceful.
So let me get this straight ...
I sent you my query while you were away, and now it's sitting amongst 400-something other queries?
Crud.
And while you were away, you read the Super Most Awesome Book Ever, and now my little ol' query has to compete with that?
Double crud.
Welcome back sir. Glad you're among us Franzenites. For your jet lag, may I suggest Nyquil? Just one shot before the set bed time and it should regulate your sleep
Missed having you with my morning coffee and my late night snack. Missed you in the middle of the day after getting home from work. Missed you during writer's block and the frustration of a blank page.
Missed you when I needed answers and missed you because you are one of the few who actually reads what we write.
Gee Nathan...did you miss me...
HELL NO !!
Welcome home babe.
OMG I just called Mr Branford babe.
Sorry Nathan, I missed you so much I left the S out of your name. WOW thats a no no.
Welcome back! The guests bloggers did have a lot of good insight. You picked them well! Your week away was a joy, but still...nothing like the original.
Welcome back. Guest bloggers were indeed great.
Glad I didn't decide to query you yet...:)
@sex scenes at starbucks - I don't know what you're talking about....
And I guess I do need to read FREEDOM. I read the free excerpt and really liked it.
Nathan, I read everything you wrote about synopses and queries while you were away, but I started to wonder, is there a synopsis gene and am I maybe missing it? I finally decided it was time to put the genes aside and get to work!
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/18/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Add a tag
By: Bryan Russell
The ant clambered over a few grains of sand. “Come with me,” he said to his friend, and his friend followed.
The ant dodged a wayward leaf and clambered over a twig. “This way, this way,” he said, waving his friend forward. They trudged ahead. The ant scampered over fallen blades of grass. He was excited – home was close.
He sighted the entrance to the tunnel. “We’re here,” the ant said, pointing, but the rhinoceros had trouble making out the doorway and squinted in vain.
A little joke, yes, but such little jokes often occur accidentally in the writing of fiction. Specificity of details is necessary for creating vivid fiction, yet the devil is in those details, hiding away his little horned head and laughing.
Details are necessary, it’s true, but just as important is their proper sequencing. If we want a joke, we withhold the fact that the ant’s friend is a rhinoceros. But if we’re trying to create a vivid fictive picture, what John Gardner called the dream vision, we need to be able to see what’s happening. We need to know that the ant’s friend is a rhinoceros right from the start. The image is unclear (and untrue) until we know.
A joke is a trick; fiction is a matter of trust. A reader must trust the writer to create a world, a world they can see and feel, a world in which the rug is not always pulled out from beneath their feet.
And if we are to create a vivid new world (as all writers do, whether writing something fantastical or utterly familiar), we must do so by creating the sensual experience of this world using only our words. For what we know of our own world is through our senses, through the physical impressions that reach us, and if we want our fictive world to be convincing (and, for a time, overshadow the real one) we must not only find the right sensory details but also properly sequence them.
Without this, the dream vision lacks harmony and flow. The vision will jar the reader. Ripples will appear in the fabric of the story, the reflected vision becoming blurred and distorted.
To sequence these details we must not only know what we sense about the world, but how we sense it.
Let us say we want to fabricate a river in our new world. Yet to do so, to create a convincing river, sometimes we need something more than the word itself. How do we come upon a river? Rarely do we first see the glistening shell of the waterbug on its surface, but rather a sense of the river as a whole. Our gaze, our sensual experience, narrows as we take something in, moving from large to small. Indeed, our senses typically work this way.
We first hear, perhaps, the roar and rush of water. It is not a clear sound, at first, but a background noise, a natural white noise underlying the sounds around us. It grows louder, and as it does (as we draw nearer) the roar becomes more particular. The sound sharpens, becomes clearer. Individual sounds become distinguishable: a few rapids; water falling on stone; the eddy and rush of a whirlpool; the trickle of a stream feeding the hungry river.
We still can’t see the river itself, perhaps, as it is blocked from view by a wall of pine trees – though the brightness of their greenery speaks of water and life. Yet we can smell it. The clear scent of water beneath the scent of pine needles. And after a moment this, too, sharpens. A scent of moss, a hint of wet shale. A green and thick smell where the water has pooled in little grottoes.
The river manifests itself through the trees: sparks of reflected light, and then as we part the trees the bright surface of the water, a sense of movement and weight and width. Our gaze draws in, and we note the texture of the water, how it moves and shapes itself over stones, how lines of flow mark its bends and twists. Rounded stones resist the movement of the river, skins of moss like green shadow. A leaf floa
Wow! Thank you. I'll be right back. I'm going out to walk along the river near my house.
Love, love this! As always, I enjoy your prose, but I love the idea of richness of imagery used to flesh out your literary world. The trick is to not overload the senses, but keep the flow of your story - to interpret the world through your character's eyes and thus make it real. I also like the idea of the same world changing with the character, seen anew as the character changes through the story.
this is BRILLIANT, Ink.
also, i think i'll be calling you "Ink" forever.
fantastic post. :D
Great piece!
If you're true to your reader they'll keep coming back for more.
http://twitter.com/#!/DaniyoGarcia
Wow. Great point, great writing. You seem to be very familiar with rivers!!c
A stroll by the water, whether river, ocean or lake, serves to revive the senses and make us aware of how much we might miss if we don't stop to actually 'see' the world.
Excellent post, INK. Another writer told me not long ago -- always try to bring in the five senses to the description. You have done that with the taste of the water, hearing the sounds, and etc. Great food for thought on a Monday.
Impressive...
most impressive.
Always a good reminder.
Awesome post, Ink! I always struggle with descriptions, and I often have to come back and detail them better in my later drafts. This will help!
Absolutely gorgeous. I loved how you brought in all five senses, and you did it in such a way that it will stay with me. I won't forget this.
Awesome, Bryan.
Great post, very true. I try my best to absorb as much of the world around me as possible so I can put it on the page later. Thanks for posting this!
Check out my blog:
chaseholland.blogspot.com
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/#!/ChaseOneal
Beautiful powerful exposition combining an assertion of the art and the craft of the creative process, expounded within the noble confines of establishing deep trust with the reader; all the threads of thought pulled together and wrapped up in a tight proof of concept example. Well done.
I love the richness of your descriptive prose. This post really drew me in.
Wow! Incredible post. I really love how you take concepts and transform them into rich, amazing imagery that engages all the senses.
Your message is so, so important and you've explained it brilliantly, as always!
...and the rug was pulled out from under our feet. We fell into the river, which looked and felt and sounded and smelled and tasted awful. And our names turned out to be Adam and Eve. Adam the ant and Eve the rhinoceros. But it was all a dream.
THE END
J.T.,
I never did trust that Eve...
And thanks, all.
Great post, great imagery!!
You've illustrated how very important it is to remember to include all the details and sensory prompts that we so often take for granted and forget to include in our writing.
L
Great post. Descriptives are the ties that lift and bind a story. Characters have their colors, but without the sensory presents of the world around them, they fall short.
Most often, the narrative carry's these responsibilties. The character/narrator intersection of scene and detail is definely a favored moment.
Is it a challenge to chose how much detail a character describes? How deeply involved in the immediate or ethereal do you allow a character to become before you lose narrative strength?
Please excuse the questions, but your exceptional post made me do it! :-)
DougM
Eyore fell in. Pooh and Piglet went for a rope. The river giggled as rivers do, and flowed around the bend. Burma Shave.
Beautiful piece.
Amazing post with great advice! Sometimes it's hard to just slow down, step back and first imagine the world you are trying to create before actually writing about it.
Imagery can be so difficult to create, but once you do it's so exhilirating because it really is like you just created your own world. :)
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
Dude, this was so awesome. Even the title sounds like a Pulitzer Prize winner.
Very nice post and definitely something to keep in mind. Thanks!
beautiful
Really interesting and helpful post. And some beautiful writing as well.
Your "roar and rush" sense and sound of water was better put than I think anybody else could have, laugh out loud. Seriously.
Congratulations.
Great post, Bryan. I hadn't thought about using the senses like that before, from a broader scope to a finer one. But it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the tips!
I love when Hannah said "you seem to be very familiar with rivers".
Because that's the thing isn't it? You have to be familiar with what you're writing about, or at very least you have to be able to fake it. Write what you know, or at least go out and research or experience it.
You don't really have to go walk down to the river just to write a beautiful piece like this about it. You just have to be sensitive to detail, to perception, to experience, to memory.
Well done Bryan!
Excellent post, Bryan!
Bryan, that was an excellent post!
WORD VERIFICATION: boozesse. To be the booze (Latin).
You spent 5 paragraphs describing a river. 99% of readers have seen/heard/"sensed" rivers. Describing it in such detail is both boring and insulting. Are we not intelligent enough to know that water is wet and cold?
Also: "the taste of an autumn flowing toward winter." What does this mean? This is the definition of purple prose.
Sorry I can't be as fawning as the rest of the commenters, but I only call 'em like I see 'em.
hank-
Good writing makes us look at something we know in a new way and transports to a place we wish we were. I think Bryan succeeded on every count.
Nathan, to each his own, I think it's a textbook example of overwriting. Describe this particular river in a new and interesting way in a sentence or a few words - now that's good writing in my opinion.
Anyway just thought I'd throw out a dissenting opinion.
Bryan,
I love your beautiful description of nature! Have you read TINKERS by Paul Harding? You might really enjoy it. I loved it. It's one of my favorite novels. It’s filled with the most gorgeous description, much of it about nature. After lots of rejections from agents, the author stuck it in a drawer for three years, then had TINKERS published by a small indie press, and it went on to win the Pulitzer Prize in Fiction this year. The description in that novel took my breath away.
But sometimes, there are valid reasons to hold back that the rhino is a rhino for a bit.
Think about something like the description of Harry Potter when he wakes up in his cupboard for the first time in his story. The fact that the reader isn't told straight off that this little boy is living in a boot cupboard gives the revelation of that fact more impact.
The scene is no less vivid for holding back that (very) important detail. We still get to know that it's morning and that he's being woken out of a dream and that his Aunt is upset and that it's his cousin's birthday, but the assumption is that he's in bed in a regular bedroom.
Revealing the truth in the way that it's done is a "water in the face" moment that demonstrates things aren't just unusual in this house because Harry's got magic, but even more unusual because this "normal" family has their nephew in a closet.
This, of course, speaks the sequencing. Sometimes that sequence requires a bit of a shock to get the point across. The small clues are there - like the lack of photographs in the house with Harry in them, but the rhino-sized detail of just how horribly this boy is treated is still a secret.
Put the "nothing's changed in 10 years" detail together with the "he slept in a cupboard" detail, and you have a much more powerful image than if the writer had simply started off saying Harry was forced to sleep in the closet. Holding back the key detail shatters the illusion.
Well, I think it's important to mention that this piece is intended to demonstrate the careful unfolding of description.
It is not a chapter in a book - it is a blog entry - a teaching moment - and (I think) a gorgeous one.
It was cool to see a post from Nathan. Welcome back, Nathan! :)
Yes, welcome back, Nathan! And thanks Bryan for the fill-in which I'm going to read (duly credited) to my writers' circle tomorrow. I'm always pointing out that the words have to offer visualisation of the scene for the reader, and of course using the other senses as appropriate. Of course you don't need to use all the description in your prose to convey the sense of 'being there' - you can pick and choose, depending on the storyline, the wordcount etc. But it is important not to cheat the reader - or skimp on sensory cues.
Nik Morton
Welcome back, Nathan! Hope you had a wonderful vacation.
Guys, there's a way to register a dissenting opinion while still doing it politely. There's no reason to make it personal.
Hank,
You don't have to like it. Nothing is liked by everyone. I'm pretty fine with that.
But it's also, obviously, merely an example of how the senses work in fiction, used merely to illustrate a point -- which is why I extended the description so far and used all the senses. It's an example, not a piece of fiction.
As Doug was asking about above, the balance of what to describe, and how, and how much, is always fine. And it's going to vary based on the writer, the characters and the story. In a piece of fiction, rather than an example, the description must always serve the story. It would be a very rare story where a river would be described with such thoroughness, certainly, at least, not at one go.
My idea of good descriptive writing, then, is writing that best suits the story -- and that, of course, is endlessly variable, and will encompass styles both florid and simple. I'm guessing you probably won't like all of them, but then there's no reason you have to.
Josin,
I agree. As I mentioned at the end of the post, there are always exceptions - and the important thing about these exceptions is that they're intentional, and that they always have an important point to make. I think a lot of us, though, accidentally break from proper sequencing, which makes for passages that are confused and lack clarity.
I think the important question is to ask what is being sensed, and how? And the how should always have a reason why.
Marilyn,
Yes, I read and loved Tinkers. A wonderful little book carried by beautiful prose and precise attention to detail.
Parts of your essay read right out of Deliverance, where James Dickey excelled in describing a river.
Also, Bill Roorbach wrote an entire book on a stream near his house.
And "the taste of an autumn flowing toward winter” is sublime. It’s leaves in ponds, cider, the first frost in the fields.
"It’s leaves in ponds, cider, the first frost in the fields."
You can taste all that in river water?
You can taste all that in river water?
No, it's what that line suggests. Like poetry, where the perception becomes more than just facts. Just as Shakespeare found “books in the running brooks, sermons in stones.”
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/17/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: guest blog, Suspense, Add a tag
By: Kay Elam
When I was writing my first novel, I knew it was a mystery, but I wasn’t sure of its sub-genre. At a writing conference I was telling someone about my book and they said, “Oh, it’s a cozy.” I simply agreed instead of admitting I’d never heard of such a thing. Since that conference I’ve found many people (including writers) aren’t aware of this popular sub-genre even if they’ve been reading cozies for years.
A cozy is fun. It’s a fast-paced, feel-good read that, when you put it down, you can hardly wait to get back to it. Clues (as well as a few wild-goose chases) are given so the reader will want to solve the mystery along with the sleuth. The victim is not someone with whom the reader has a real emotional attachment—he’s the villain after all—so the reader isn’t dismayed by his/her death. There are twists and turns as well as surprising revelations but, in the end, justice always prevails and the sleuth is the heroine (or hero).
The cozy’s heroine is usually an amateur sleuth (think Jessica Fletcher). This is a role she’s just fallen into because she’s intelligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. She’s usually connected to the crime by someone she knows or because she was nearby when it happened. Often she solves the crime to protect someone important to her. The sleuth is likable, though flawed in a way that is not going to offend the reader. (She eats in bed, is always late, smokes, gossips, smacks chewing gum, or has some other character defect that shows she's less than perfect—just like the reader.)
The sleuth has strong relationships, though not necessarily romantic. She has lots of friends, family, acquaintances who feed her missing links to solve the mystery. These characters are often eccentric, annoying, or amusing—just like people we all know. Frequently the protagonist has a friend or spouse who know facts about the crime that aren’t yet public. This could be a member of the police force (or the sheriff), the medical examiner, the district attorney, a nosy neighbor—you get the idea.
The cozy’s sleuth usually has another job—solving crimes is just something she does because somebody has to do it. She might be a business owner (florist, bookstore, hotel, caterer, etc.), doctor, lawyer, chef, librarian, journalist, tour guide, pet sitter, and so on—or she might be retired with extra time on her hands. Instead of or in addition to a profession, a cozy might center on hobbies such as crafts, puzzles, sewing, needlework/knitting, quilting, golf, tennis, gardening, and genealogy, among others. Some cozies have a theme like the holidays, animals (cats, dogs, horses, birds, etc.), or even religion.
There is often a romantic subplot, but no explicit sex scenes, and there is little, if any, profanity.
The murder in a cozy isn’t described with a lot of details. It usually happens before the book begins or at the very beginning. Sometimes there are multiple murders, but even they are usually off the page. They’re described in general terms—no blood and gore.
A cozy is often geographically specific, usually in a small town or village, but may also be in a “closed” setting like an office, hotel, train, etc. My novel is set in a well-known medium-sized city, but is limited to a specific section of town.
Of course there has to be law enforcement—but they are often short-staffed, kidnapped, out of town, or otherwise unavailable which is why a small town setting works so well. Procedural accuracy is often overlooked in this genre and the police seldom take the protagonist seriously. A lot of cozies are written as a part of a series becau
Liked your definition of a cozy mystery. It's the type of book that will appeal to those who don't like the gritty, swearing ex-cops or drunken PIs.
Personally I like the grittier mystery/suspense novels most of the time, since they tend to be closer to reality.
Thanks for your insight.
Thanks for that, I always wondered what a cozy was. I don't read a lot of crime fiction, when I do it's mostly thrillers, so I wouldn't have known the difference if I was staring at one.
I think we're getting to the point that we have so many genres and cross-genres that we need a list. Or... we could go back to the old umbrella terms that did a good job of categorizing most things and a terrible job of those few experimental works that didn't really fit into any known genre.
And Now I know what a cozy mystery is. I printed your post out for future reference. Thanks for that!
This is a great explanation Kay. I like the idea of mood and location ruling the roost! Makes me want to, well, get cozy.
Sometimes cozies will include a recipe or knitting pattern or "crafty" hint along with the story. It's fun to get an extra treat after a satisfying read!
Just because cozies are less graphic than their gritter relatives doesn't mean they don't grapple with important and timely issues, either!
Kerry Greenwood writes Australian cozies. One series features Phrynne Fisher, who is gorgeous and rich and lives in the 1920s. The other features arg-I've-forgotten-her-name but she works in the "Earthly Delights" bakery in modern Melbourne, and is overweight. Both often tackle serious issues (recovery from drugs - and of course solving murder cases) but in a non-traumatising way.
@ Sarah & Twittertales: I agree cozies often tackle serious issues. Mine, for example has infidelity, multiple addictions, embezzlement, kidnapping and of course murder.
I like how Twittertales puts it -- solving the crimes "in a non-traumatizing way." That pegs it exactly.
Kay
I love cozys, and I think you explained it really well!
They are lovely books - comfortable and fun - and I can get addicted to the slow unraveling of the character and their lives. Cozy books, indeed. :)
Did you write my novel?? Haha..
Love the post!
Kay, thanks so much for defining cozy's so distinctly!
Oh gosh, now you make me want to write a cozy. :3
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
I like how you agreed that you were writing a cozy at the writing conference, and then you went to figure out what that was. :) I do that same type of thing all the time.
Good luck with YOUR cozy.
Margo
http://margodill.com/blog/
Great post! I knew nothing about the "cozy" subgenre until now. I have read several "cozy" mysteries and I do really enjoy them. Now I know exactly what to call them. Thanks!
That's so funny - I was reading another blog recently about "cozies" and everyone was chiming in or arguing etc. and I had no idea what they were (and was too embarrassed to ask :) Thank you for this and congrats on yours!
NOW I get it! Simply and succinctly put.Thanks so much
Janiel
http://creativethinkery.blogspot.com
Kay, that's great; now I know all about cozies from your entertaining and informative post.
Any chance of your running through all the other genres? Maybe one of them will fit my slightly mongrel novel...
Thanks so much! I've been hearing that term used alot and wondered exactly what it was...
I loved your reference to Jessica Fletcher...ha! I've always been embarassed to admit that she's one of my favs. (tv show w/Angela Lansbury) corny but cozy!
As crazy as it sounds...she's part of my inspiration to want to be a writer.
Does anyone have any suggestions/favs for good reads on cozys?
"Ah, now I understand cozy mystery." Sheila said.
Very well written - congratulations.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
@ Mariam--Maybe. Now I've just got to find an agent and get it published :-)
@ Layla, my absolutely favorite cozy writer is the late great Anne George with her Southern Sisters mystery Series. She has titles like Murder on a Bad Hair Day and Murder on a Girls' Night Out.
I like Debbie Macomber's books and I'd consider her Blossom Street series and her Cedar Cove Series cozies though they aren't always mysteries.
My suggestion is to Google a hobby, profession, animal or section of the country you like + cozy mystery and see what you find.
I'd love to know what you think of them after you have read some.
Kay Elam
www.kayelam.com/blog
Thanks Kay. I'll check them out and keep you posted. :-)
L
Thanks Kay. I never knew what that term meant. That was a great explanation.
Ah, Jessica Fletcher. My mom used to lover her some, "Murder She Wrote."
So, I loved Encyclopedia Brown books when I was a kid - are those considered cozies for kids?
Great blog post.
I LOVE a good Cozy! I fall right in step on location and become so absorbed in the town the people the MC especially. They're so much fun to read that I would love to one day write one that measures up! Thanks for a great article, maybe you turned a few more readers onto Cozys!
I'm just wondering if you need to wear a Snuggie- (http://www.mysnuggiestore.com) while reading a cozy?
It'd be great. You could say to your friends, "I'm going to sit in my Snuggie and read my cozy. Have a good night."
It evokes an image, doesn't it?
Ha! Love it! I'm doing my polish of my first Cozy Mystery as we speak. I hadn't even known what it was the first time a friend told me I had the perfect voice for them--and I could go down your list and check pretty much every mark! (My heroine's flaw is she is a little fast and loose with the truth... tells it as she WANTS it to be a little more than as it is...she does PR so that is just 'spin'.)
I like mysteries that are in-between: with a puzzle or challenge to solve and some danger, but not too much gore. That's why I like the Janet E. books--lots of fun, with some wild rides, though some of the plots play fast and loose.
What do you call those books: medium-boiled?
@ Julie True -- LOL. Now that's marketing! I actually have two Snuggies and, you're right they're great to snuggle into with a good book.
@ Ermo -- I'm not sure about the Encyclopedia Brown books as cozies for kids ... maybe.
@ Anonymous (9:59 a.m.) -- I've seen JE's books classified as cozies, though I'm not sure I agree.
@ Hart -- I think your heroine might be one of the supporting characters in my book, only in mine she's a country music singer wannabe. Good luck with your book.
Thanks everyone for the comments.
Kay
The most aptly named genre I can think of. The cozy sometimes deals with very grizzly murders, but as you say always off the page.
As a fan of the cozy I have a rule - never live in a small town - English or American, people are always killing their friends and neighbors.
:)
@ Perry -- love your rule. I grew up in a town of 3,011. Now I live in a city :-)
I think I'd add that the sleuth in cozies is usually not put in any real peril. It's not a knuckle-biter. Which also means you often don't get the "big climax".
A lot of cozy plots feature a second murder that occurs fairly late in the story. That murder is usually of someone barely involved with the original victim or the investigation. Occasionally the second victim will have been the prime suspect for the original murder. The solution of the mystery then hinges on determining why the second person was murdered—what was the motive?
I'd say that maybe the most classic cozies are Agatha Christie's, especially Miss Marple.
I've been reading cozies for years, but I didn't know that's what they were called until a year ago!
Of course, I love the Miss Marple mysteries, but I've also been reading Joanna Fluke's cozies. Her website is MurderSheBaked.com, and her books come with lots of great recipes.
It is now my goal for NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month) to try my hand at my very own cozy. :)
Thanks for your thorough and accurate description of a cozy mystery.
Marilyn Levinson
Nancy Drew, anyone?
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/16/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Harry Potter, Twilight, book recommendations, guest blog, Add a tag
By: Rachel Bertsche
Can you smell the sharpened pencils in the air? It's the delicious scent of another school year underway. Kids are cracking open new books and diving into the likes of Great Expectations or The Things They Carried or Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry.
Though my school days are behind me, as the leaves start to fall (at least here in Chicago) I get the itch for new reading lists. A fresh literary start.
On my fall syllabus? The Hunger Games, of course (I'm so behind) and Freedom (I like to know what all the fuss is about) and whatever my book club demands of me. Currently that's The Weight of Silence by Heather Gudenkauf. I could go on, but thinking too much about all the to-be-read books on my shelves makes me anxious that I should stop blogging and start curling up in my book nook, pronto.
So to usher in the new school year, something light, bookish and BFFish (my personal blog, MWF Seeking BFF chronicles my search for a new, local best friend... preferably of the Babysitter's Club variety).
I present to you the literary characters (aside from the members of the BSC) with whom I would most like to be best friends:
1) Boy, The Giving Tree. Some say he’s selfish and greedy, I say he’s lonely. He loves his tree. He could use a BFF.
2) Jo March, Little Women. Or maybe Beth. For one of my college applications, I had to name which fictional character I most identified with. I chose Jo. But I wonder if we could really be best friends? We might be too similar. As much as I love her, I could see us bumping heads. I might benefit more from Beth’s warm heart… You know, before her gutwrenching end.
3) Ginny Weasley, Harry Potter series. She’s awesome. Half badass, half girly. Not as goody-two-shoes as Hermione, but just as brave. I can totally picture us whispering together in the corner.
4) Alice Cullen, Twilight. Whimsical, fiercely loyal, and loves to play dress up. That she can see into the future doesn’t hurt.
5) Harriet the Spy/Nancy Drew. I really wanted to be a child detective back in the day. Sadly, there were very few (read: zero) mysteries that needed solving in my hometown. But I would still very much like to be the sleuthy sidekick.
6) Lisbeth Salander, Millenium Trilogy. I would not want to be on her bad side. But she is crazy protective of her friends, could dig up dirt on anyone at anytime, and would be one of those never-a-dull-moment BFFs.
7) Skeeter Phelan, The Help. She’s passionate, determined, sneaky when she has to be. I think we could be good writing buddies. Read each other’s work, give honest critiques, take breaks to discuss Hilly’s horribleness.
8 ) Oskar Schell, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. I'm aware that most people think Jonathan Safran Foer’s first book, Everything is Illuminated, is his best. But I fell in love with Oskar, and this novel, early on. He’s eager
Great list. I would pick Jo March, but I think I would have the same issue as you. Perhaps Beth might work better :-)
I'm with you on #1 and #9.
I'd have to pick Harry Potter. I really liked Evie in Paranormalcy. Muriel Pritchett in Accidental Tourist would be entertaining.
Meh, give me Hermione over Ginny any day. Although she is a huge know it all. But My top HP pick is Cho. She is probably a better friend than Ron or Ginny or anyone in the book.
And as for Twilight, I wouldn't pick Alice, although she was devoted she also 'kidnapped' Bella for her 'own good' for a Porsche. I think Jessica is a better friend than her.
But my all time favorite is probably Leslie Burke from Bridge to Terebithia.
Ron Weasley or Samwise Gamgee. Both true and loyal friends.
Mind you, Skullduggery Pleasant would be a good friend to have around in a tight spot.
Puddleglum, from the Magicians's nephew (Chronicles of Narnia).
It's more fun than you might think to have a good natured pessimist friend. Plus he smoked a pipe with such style.
Bilbo Baggins
And Biff as my husband just reminded me, he's hilarious! Biff is from Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal by Christopher Moore!
Only one choice for me. Rufo from Heinlein's Glory Road. He's a fighter, gentleman's gentleman, witty conversationalist, barber, cook and he has that fantastic foldbox full of the really good stuff.
I'd go with Tinker Bell. She looks all cute and harmless, but she can kick butt. Plus, having such candor is an awesome BFF quality. I need someone to tell me that I'm a silly ass once in a while. Not being able to share clothes would be a bummer though.
Louis de Pointe du Lac from Interview with a Vampire. The guy seriously needs a buddy to cheer him up. Same goes for Professor Snape from Harry Potter.
Um...and Jane Eyre... and Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird.
I want friends I can talk with for hours.
Samwise Gamgee, I totally get it. He'd go to the ends of the earth to help you out. And how come Molly Weasley gets no love? I think she'd be the ultimate shoulder to cry on, and I'd bet she'd make you a cup of tea while she helped you solve the problem that made you cry to begin with.
What a great way to look at the characters in books. There are lots of characters that I love but not many that I'd be BFF. Elizabeth Bennett from Pride and Prejudice- she is passionate, loyal, has a great sense of humor you would never be bored.
And Mary Clare from Saint Training by Elizabeth Fixmer. Just new on the shelves. She is a passionate girl with a big heart.
Having just moved to Boston, I find myself in desperate need of a BFF too. If I could pick one out of a book it would be Cassandra from I Capture the Castle, because she's observant and insightful, but also likes to joke. I'd work a bit to make her get used to to having more fun, but I think we'd get along well!
What a fun article - your site looks fun, too.
I like the idea of thinking of characters in books - and who you would actually want in your own life.
I think Anne, from Anne of Green Gables. She would be a lovely friend.
Bridget Jones would be loads of fun.
I'd like to be friends with Dumbledore. Fascinating conversations, and he can do magic too. Not a bad think when you're in a scape to have a friend who can wave a wand and get you out of it.
Fun topic - thanks.
I recently moved to Arizona from England and am in desperate need of a BFF - one who understands British humour! So I'd have to pick Elizabeth Bennett... fantastic sense of humour and Alice Cullen would be a great shopping buddy!
Pennywise from Stephen King's IT.
Seriously?
Yeah.
I'd have to go with Justine from the book of the same name.
Hal Incandenza, from Infinite Jest. My tennis game would totally improve.
I agree with you on # 2 - Totally.
I think I'd like to add Holly Short and Atermis Fowl to my list too.
All the March girls have such defining characteristics, but I dont think I could be BFFs with any of them, sadly. :( Beths tragic end tears me to pieces already and I would hate to have to go through her ... end... in real life. Meg is too practical for me. Jo is a little too wild, plus she has a temper like me so we would probably fight a lot. xD And Amy is so divine and beautiful and talented I would envy her from left to right. D:
Hmm, I am surprised to realize this, but I think I'll have to pick Alice! :o She has a bubbly nature and always seems to be in a good mood (you know, whenever she's not killing bad guys or seeing unfortunate events in the future). I think she would be the most fun to hang out with. :D
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
Cute post.
My BFF would have to be Fever Develin of the Phillip DePoy northern Georgia Blue Mountain mysteries. He's caught between myth and ghostworlds and this old ordinary human existence. I know how he feels some of the time!
Mr. Bennet from Pride and Prejudice. The guy just seems to enjoy the follies of others. He's be fun to people watch with in a mall somewhere. And Oscar de Leon from Oscar Wao would be great too.
All of your choices are fantastic!
From Harry Potter, I'd have to say Luna Lovegood: She's fiercely loyal and she never lets anything or anyone make her feel bad for being who she is...I think there is a lot to be said for her outlook on life. :)
Once you finish The Hunger Games I'm sure you'll add Katniss Everdeen to your list.
Joshua, from Madeleine L'Engle's Arm of the Starfish. He was so awesome... I literally cried when he died!!
Anyway, I don't think Beth's death was gut-wrenching! I just read that part, and it was just a very slow death.
M
Jake Barnes. Wicked, wry and biting sense of humor. Yet, a definite under current of decency, and consideration for the truly sad, lonely, and tragic--not the pathetic.
And he knows all the best, cheapest alcohol in all the places, plays tennis rarely, and can keep his mouth shut. The perfect fly-fishing companion as well as drinking buddie and literary confidant.
Of course, he's also a journalist, like me--so we'd have much to comiserate over, and in similar ways...
Great post. I'm hoping my literary BFF isn't too old. ROFLMAO!
Thanks for posing this interesting question and sharing your thoughts in this guest post.
The female protagonist I most admired and enjoyed was Leslie from Bridge to T. I wish I'd had a BFF like Leslie when I was at school. She was sweet, kind, loyal, brave, adventurous, generous, fun, powerfully imaginative, talented, refined and thoughtful. And yet she was an outcast. I liked this, too, but in her case it didn't ring true as I think in reality a girl like this would be one of the most popular. I mean, what's not to like?
Dumbledore--amazing talks!
Elinor Dashwood--to be in her confidence would be an accomplishment
Eowyn--Shieldmaiden of Rohan: would love to fight beside her
Nancy Drew--my first female hero who inspired me to write as a young girl
Btw, I was assuming that BFF = Best Female Friend?
Elizabeth Bennett. I love her attitude.
Great idea for a post. My list...
1. Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove): My favorite literary character of all time. He'll make you laugh, quote some Latin, and then save your life.
2. Chili Palmer (Get Shorty): Think of all the cool people you'd meet just by hanging out with him. And if you get in a jam, he'll do all the talking and get you out of it.
3. Ron and Hermione (duh): More like family than best friends, and I mean that in a good way.
4. Billy Parham (The Crossing/Cities of the Plain): John Grady Cole gets all the attention, but Parham is a more sensitive soul.
http://chaseholland.blogspot.com/
BFF = Best Friend Forever...
Great guest blogging!
I'd pick Eliza Bennett, Scarlett O'Hara (never a dull moment), or... Jesus would be a very cool friend. The Bible's a book, right?
Of course, there would be agonizing days. But talk about a Best Friend FOREVER...
Francie from A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN. I've always felt we'd get along!
I'm thinking 'Stella in Great Expectations. My BFFs always come with extreme challenges to overcome.
Wendy - I think BFF stands for "best friends forever". That's what I've heard, anyway. :)
My dream BFF is Stephanie Plum from Janet Evanovich's series - but I would be using her to get to hang out with Grandma Mazur.
I always thought that Ellen Olenska and I would be great friends, and I think she needed a good friend. Also, Jay Gatsby - he really needed someone to tell him to move on already, Daisy wasn't good enough for him. And Elizabeth Bennett - I'd have loved her. :) Although, I might have been a little jealous of Darcy, so that could have soured the friendship a little. I hope I'm a bigger person than that.
Anne from Anne of Green Gables. She's all passion and no foresight. I would probably feel a bit dull next to her, though.
Raistlin from Dragonlance. Sure, he'd stab me in the back on his dark and twisted path to godhood, but he also does cool slight-of-hand magic tricks.
Flora MacIvor from Waverly (one of two sane characters in that whole book-- but she managed to be so cool). Or Trillian, from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Or a BFF-triangle with Ismael and Queequeg (two of my favorite literary characters ever!) from Moby-Dick. Or Esperanza from The House on Mango Street.
I completely agree with your #3, Ginny Weasley. I would add:
1) Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)
2) The Little Prince (The Little Prince)
Fascinating question to ponder. I'm not sure I'd want to hang around a lot of characters I love in books, but the one that came to mind with this question is Thursday Next of the Eyre Affair series. Smart, tough, funny and she has the real inside scoop on all things literary. And, as her BFF, maybe she'd take me into all my favorite books.
Obi Wan Kenobi, Jedi master. He's especially good at getting people to do as he commands.
At first, Rachel, I thought you meant which 'literary' (as opposed to genre characters), but from your examples, I see you use the term in a general sense. Harry Potter and Twilight don't qualify for 'literary' status no matter how popular they may be.
Interesting post. It brought back the memory of having to read Great Expectations in school. That was the start of my reading by author -- if I liked the voice, I'd read all I could find by that writer.
Jane Austen's Elizabeth Bennet, because she's sassy in a time that it wasn't cool to be sassy. Stieg Larsson's Mikael Blomkvist, because I think we could write beautiful true crime together. Tolkein's Pippin, because I like fresh produce, to. Oh! And I can't forget Dan Brown's Robert Langdon, because I think he'd be a really excellent research buddy :)
Sorry about the delete. Fumble fingers. As to the question, Gandalf or Old Tom Bombadil 'cause they're cool. From Harry Potter, Snape 'cause I got a thing for bad boys who know their way around a cauldron.
Is it just me or does everyone who reads Twilight want to be BFFs with Alice? She's so much more interesting than pretty much any other character in that series.
Personally, I'm really into The Song of Ice and Fire right now, so I'd probably choose Arya Stark... in a few years. Or else Princess Julia/Fisher from Simon R. Green's Forest Kingdom world.
Or Princess Cimorene from Dealing with Dragons.
The Hobbits and I are buds.
Has anyone mentioned Enzo from Garth Stein's, The Art of Racing in the Rain? He's not only man's BFF, but he'd be mine too!
I'd have to say Alice Cullen, too. I just get the warm fuzzies all over when I think about Alice being my new literary BFF and all the fun, happy stuff we could do.
Pippi Longstockiing or Alice in Wonderland. Many wild adventures of the imagination and no proper bedtime.
Elphaba from Wicked - cause I "get" her.
Jane Eyre - talk about loyal! (and well read)
For my younger self, it would be Ramona all the way!
Hmm...A lot of mine are medieval, I have to say. Do those count? Sorcha from Juliet Marillier's Daughter of the Forest is definately on the list, either that or her granddaughter Clodagh in Heir to Sevenwaters. I do remember Addie in Gail Carson Levine's The Two Princesses of Bamarre. She would definately be on my list. I tend to like the plain janes thrust into extraordinary situations. I can relate to them and I think we'd get along because of that.
Jessica Darling from the Megan McCafferty series. She's witty, smart, snarky, progressive, feminist, cool, and wants to change the world.
My BFF would definitely be Anne Shirley from the Anne of Green Gables series. I love her as a fellow "scribbler" and her imagination matches my own.
I also have to add a picture book character whom I have always admired and want to be like-- Miss Rumphius! Her motto to travel to faraway places, live by the sea someday, and make the world more beautiful matches my own as well.
Thanks for the post!
The Man from The Road-not dead though. He's badass and minimalist...I'd like to hang out with someone so singularly brave.
Bridget Jones came to mind as well, I guess we all want a friend like that!
I think Noah from Peter Geye's Safe from the Sea is a great guy, but I don't think I could keep it platonic.
I would totally chillax with Jane Eyre. I could be her BFF that doesn't die!
Ford Prefect of Hitch Hikers Guide to the galaxy. He's got an amazing job and he always knows where his towel is.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/15/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Staying Sane While Writing, guest blog, How to Write a Novel, Add a tag
By: Quill
Having written five books, I have naturally developed a vast catalog of practices that work for me. Perhaps sharing a few I can help shorten someone’s path to publication. Someday I even hope to have one of mine published.
Number one: organize your material. I keep mine in plastic garbage bags. Then my research, drafts, and yes, even manuscript are set to file (curbside) when the project is done. Almost as critical is the skill of outlining. I call it outlaying. In the early stages of a book, I’ll spend many hours outlaying in the sun. Sometimes I combine this with another proven technique, mind-napping.
With fiction, pre-develop your characters. I write the names of mine on the back of my hand. That way I think of them wherever I go. Sometimes I draw little eyes on my hand and ink lips around my thumb and forefinger. Then I ask them questions and get them to speak: “s’alright?” “S’alright!”
Free your characters. Encourage them to have lives of their own. Meet them at parties, then follow them, pen in hand, on adventures you could have never dreamed of. The hero of my last novel left me, wrote his own book. A bestseller. Oprah called him. Not me. Him. I answered the phone: “Hi, Oprah! Sorry, Dirk Blowhard is indisposed. I just drowned him in the tub.”
Choose subject matter carefully. My first book idea, about the Wright Brothers’ earliest plane, didn’t fly.
Then I wrote about sexual bondage. The editor liked my submission, but couldn’t get the chain stores to stock me.
Know your subject and market. I wrote a book about car engines and then couldn’t find a distributor.
Be controversial, but not overly. While living in England, I wrote an expose on the House of Windsor. Three agents in black suits appeared at my door. They weren't literary agents. They told me I wouldn't be getting any royalties.
Stick with it. My first novel, ‘SNOWMAN IN SPRING’ ended up in a slush pile.
I wrote a guidebook, “How to get Married”. The editor rejected my proposal. I must have misinterpreted her advances, (which, it turns out, were for another writer). It was all starting to have a familiar ring.
Sure enough, when I proposed a book on antique firearms, she shot me down.
In the publishing biz, rejection happens. Take it in stride. It’s not personal, though it can feel pretty personal, right? I sent an article to a horticultural magazine, on farmstead flowers and fowl. The editor called it poppycock. Said the section on composting was pure crap.
For a barbering journal I penned, “The Race Against Hair Loss.” The editor called it balderdash. Even the part about selecting a toupee. Said the whole thing was a ‘bad piece’.
To get serious, establishing a routine that works is really the most important aspect of writing. People often ask me what specific techniques I use. Actually I would like them to.
I stand on my head for twenty minutes before writing. Blood rushing to my head sets off a neuron frenzy, prompting right brain left brain intercourse and an overall spiking of metabolic function. Then prone I utter a secret Jedi incantation that ends with "best seller come to da, Dah!" From there I go straight to the kitchen, cram a quick snack, rich in iron—raisin bran, maybe a donut. Then I might get lured by the tube for a few minutes, some old sitcoms… But soon, neural activity positively peaking (or more often starting into a post-sugar-high nose dive) I leap to my keyboard, and write!
Words flow from thoughts pent up in my mind as ideas crystallize, as in perfect mid air simpatico my fingers fly. Then, after a bit, usually I remember to turn on the computer.
A few tips worth sticky-noting to your forehead:
Index cards can be useful for outlining your plot. If your plot is in a cemetery that is windy, use rocks to weigh the cards down.
If you are subject to excessive distrac
So, Ghandi was a spiritual leader that didn't eat much, so his health was poor, and also had bad breath. He walked everywhere without shoes, which made him a....
WAIT FOR IT...
Super-callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.
So many great puns, so little time!
L.Ron Hubbard "mind-napped" and that led to Scientology, so you're on your way....Lol
Absolutely Great Post! Informative too... I now know Poppycock isn't flower-porn.
I would love to read some of your manuscripts. Hard to believe with a sense of humor like yours they haven't gone over yet. Maybe Howard Jacobson's success with "The Finkler Question" will open more comedic doors?
DougM
At first I thought this was going to be a plethora of golden insights...well it was much much more. Thanks for posting.
That was pretty funny.
Oh, the puns, the puns!
Lol! Very punny :D
I agree with Mesmerix - very punny! What a great post for a Friday.
Umm. Well nothing yet. If it did I'd be published.
Da, da, dum.
LOL! Very well done, Quill!
These are some great tips! :) Thanks for sharing your insight and experiences on writing, though to be honest I wouldn't organize material with trash bags. xD For me, to be able to stay confident about my work and think that my writing even has a chance, I have to treat it all lovingly and with care. Erm. That means organizing my work in a stack of various folders with stickers and swirly words of encouragement on them, LOL.
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
With such well defined and disciplined practices as yours it is absolutely shocking you have not been published yet.
I must rush to adopt them as well. Surely this will work.
That was very clever... but, shoot! I was hoping for some practical advice. Great post, and I actually *got* some tips, too. Thanks!
My pants are one kind of Velcro, my chair the other kind. Keeps me in the saddle, as Roy used to say.
ROFL. This is so funny. Love your dry wit, Quill. I felt like I was reading/watching stand-up comedy - I don't know if I've ever read humor written that way before.
It's impressive.
You're being funny on the forums, too, Quill. Really enjoying your postings. Except the one where you annihilated me with a woman with long hair in stick figures. That was just wrong. :)
This is subtle - I'm so glad Nathan picked it!
what? no "take my wife, please"?
i'm crushed.
-- Tom
Quill, you're a man after my own heart.
But seriously, if you don't stop following me around with those surgical tools, I'm calling the police.
Now I have a serious need to use plethora in my WIP. Darn, there goes the afternoon.
Thanks for the friday funny! :)
You must have had a fun one with this! Loved it.
There was a gem in there though, about characters. Turning them into people in your mind and developing them so completely can only benefit your story.
Quill here (my Google acct isn't working! I type in the funny word and it keeps telling me it's wrong)
Thanks so much, everyone. I wrote the piece a few years back for a writer's gathering and delivered it there live.
What a hoot to be picked for one of Nathan's guest blog spots. I am really enjoying being part of his forum and blog community.
You should change your name to killed.
Worthy of Jack Handey, although of a different style. Bravo.
First, thanks to Nathan for allowing us to take a peak inside the mind of Quill.
Second, thanks to Quill for allowing us to take a peak inside... well, you know. Inspiring, informational, uplifting insight! Awesome.
I knew when you helped shatter some of my query work on the forums that you were a man after my own heart.
Humor... when done right... is the best lubrication for any form of art.
I would like to formally nominate Nathan for Secretary of State and Quill for President.
Anyone want to second that?
I guess we'll throw in the Query Shark for Secretary of Defense.
i liked the line about iron rich food-- maybe a doughnut-- funny stuff
I'll follow up your witty word plays with a masterful retort:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLLLL! U TOO FUNNY.
Okay, so maybe I need to work on it. Thanks for the amusement Quill!
Reading helps me out a lot. I find it easier to write if I also spend time reading, which I usually do at lunch and before I go to bed.
One word: Booze. I know, I know, it's been done. But it works for me, especially when coupled with my other favorite writing tool: Dodging actual work.
Now, granted, the people you work for might have a proble with this, but you just need to get right up in their faces and start talking about ART... the guy in accounting who sleeps at his desk instead of working on payroll, which is why you need to drink and write during work hours instead of whatever they THINK you are supposed to be doing!
You just need to remind them that since you are busy, making art, and a little too looped to really complain about Art being late with your check, you are really one of their more productive employees. Best of all, you aren't complaining about Art, who they can't afford to retire, since they spent the pension fund on a new Corporate Jet, or fire, since his severave check with all his seniority might break the company!
After that, they'll just leave you alone to pursue your writing thinking, "Wow, what a great employee... never complains... always busy... sure he weaves a little by lunch time and you can't understand a word he says, but he's not hanging around the coffee machine griping about his check being late..."
...now, if you will excuse me, I have some writing to do... where did I put that bottle...
ROTFL!!! If the Rangers' game weren't on right now, I would have even belly-laughed! Thank you for reminding us of the joy and deep-rooted humorous reasons that we right.
that was brilliant, quill. thanks for the laugh!
Omigoodness! I laughed so hard I had tears running down my cheeks while I was trying to read it outloud to the hubs! Thanks or the laugh!
A pun my soul, Quill! I hereby resign as (self-appointed) Jester at the Court of King Nathan. Although you stole my patented writing technique.
Was the editor who liked your sexual bondage submission the same one who rejected your marriage proposal? Maybe you should have tried domination. Take her to a tack shop and play ‘horsey’ around the house with her.
Snacks rich in iron? That’s probably where the car distributor went.
John Jack, you speak my language! Whatever it is…
Layla, Quill is already a sit-down comic.
My, you're in a punny mood today :) Thanks for the help and laughs, as usual.
The puns were real groaners, but aren't puns always? We can't expect too much from the lowest form of comedy.
However, everything around the puns (that is, the beginning and end of the post) was brilliant. Seriously, I laughed out loud thrice. Good stuff.
ha ha! I needed a laugh today, thanks.
Mostly my writing practice is preceded by watching Jersey Shore, for research about guido's because I never knew they existed and I might need to write about them one day. Also 19 kids and counting because I simply have never met anyone so weird as these people on TV and weirdness seems to inspire me. Sometimes I take all my characters and try to make them into a Sims family and then let them wander around doing whatever they want and see if it helps me figure out something new for them to do or be if I'm stumped. That never really works though. But I have a great city full of guido's and families with 19 kids.
Is this Nathan's journey ?
There seem to be a lot of books for an agent who didn't want to become a writer.
I suppose it doesn't really matter, but if I were a client, a post like this would have me worried. As a writer, I'm simply disturbed.
Love this post. Was having a rough morning until I read it I'm still chuckling.
J.T. Shea,
They're English dialect usage for those on the tip of the tongue words that won't float up from the back of the mind. One or two of them might even be in a dictionary.
"Uh, the car won't start. The...the...what do you call it, you know, the doohickey that charges the battery--"
"The alternator?"
"Yeah, it's bad."
Don't forget a glass of wine.
Wine. Prayer. Index cards. Brain-storming with other writers. Weekly word count goal. Butt-in-chair.
That was great!
hahaah! I loved this! I read so many articles about authors using intense writing practices to pen their material. But the truth is what works, works. One day that'll be writing while standing on your head if that's what you got to do.
Thanks for the laugh!
*LAUGHING* - I am so glad I kept reading, because honestly, I first thought "not more advice from a writer--I've heard enough already so I'll move on," -and that includes my own advice-- *laugh*. . .but I glanced down and thought, wait a minute!
This made my morning ...
I love puns. And this post. Thanks Quill!
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/14/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Twilight, guest blog, Lord of the Rings, Twitter, Suzanne Collins, Dan Brown, Life of a Writer, How to Promote a Book, Add a tag
By: Hannah Moskowitz
This post has nothing to do with writing and absolutely everything to do with being a writer.
The stereotype of a writer--the middle-aged man pounding feverishly at a typewriter, cigarette in his mouth, sending hard-copy manuscripts to his agent and protesting the change of every word--has yet to catch up with the reality of what being a writer entails today.
We are not locked in our attics alone. We are not even the romantic writers of the '20s, drinking coffee and discussing literature. We are a legion of overworked, underwashed normals, pounding away at our laptops and shooing the kids to the next room.
And more importantly, we are not alone.
If you are reading this blog, you have obviously already met at least one other writer (hello there.) Chances are, I'm not the only one. Agent, editor, and writer blogs, facebook, forums like Verla Kay and Absolute Write, and God, above all Twitter, mean that, at the very least, most writers are at least a friend of a friend of yours. The term 'networking' is so appropriate here, because, in actuality, we--writers, publishing professionals, book bloggers--are a net. A web of interconnected people.
We know the same people. The truth is, this world feels very big sometimes, and God knows everyone is talking about writing a novel, but when it comes down to it--the people who are really out there, querying, editing, submitting, representing, accepting, rejecting, publishing, copyediting, waiting...well, the truth is, there aren't that many of us after all.
Which is why the act of being a professional writer has come to mean much more than it used to. Fifty years ago, all most writers had to do was avoid getting arrested and not respond to bad reviews.
You have a much bigger job to undertake. And it's stressful, and it's scary, but it can also be one of the most rewarding parts of this job. Somedays, my writing is absolutely shitty, and the house is a mess, and I'm crying because I can't find my socks, but I have 557 blog followers and I said something funny on Twitter today, so at least this day isn't totally for the birds.
You may think that I am the worst possible person ever to talk about how to be a professional. I'm loud and I'm obnoxious and I had to edit about ten cuss words out of this post so I didn't offend Nathan's sensibilities.
Yep. That's me.
But I'm hoping all that will make me easier to listen to, because when people think 'professional,' they a lot of the time think boring, sanitized, safe. And that's not who you have to
be. I'm living proof over here. And I knew from the start that I was taking a big risk, but I hoped that people would find me interesting and remember me.
It's worked pretty well so far. And that, kittens, is the real reason you want to get out there and put on your professional face. So that people will remember you.
Now that I'm done babbling, here are some guidelines. How to be a successful professional writer, by yours truly. And these are not big, life-changing rules. These are just tricks. Tricky little tricks.
--GET ON TWITTER. I don't care what your objections are. I objected too. But it is hands-down the best way to connect with people you would never have the balls to approach any other way. You can follow someone, which causes them no pain or trouble whatsoever, and you can talk to them in a completely neutral, undemanding way.
--READ ABOUT BOOKS. What do Hunger Games, Twilight, Lord of the Rings, The Da Vinci Code, and a hell of a lot of other books have in common? Answer: I haven't read them.
I'm not proud. But I know I don't have nearly enough time to read as much as I should, so I make a point of reading *about* books I wish I had time to read. Know enough about popular books to be able to fake your way through a conversation. I can discuss Twilight with the best of 'em.
--
Jennifer--thanks! And, oh, yeah, if you can be brilliant in a few words, be brilliant in a few words. God knows I would if I could...
I enjoy Hannah's blog and her tweets (and Break, of course)so it was uber fun to read her here. Lots of great, diverse topics this week!
Cool post, Hannah - like your voice. :)
I like your take on this. Not everyone may decide to do the social networking thing - which is cool, not every tool works for everyone - but if they do, I like your approach to it.
What I especially like is your focus on building relationships with other writers. I've tried lots of things on-line over the years, and what I've found both feels and works the best is just to be myself. I'm just making friends, really, supporting other writers, learning from them and sharing who I am. Those relationships tend to be nuturing.
I think it is definitely possible to do all of this without social networking - writing a good book is hard enough, and a good book will sell itself - but there are some nice side benefits to social networking - it can be fun and supportive, and brings some perks.
Thanks, Hannah. I imagine it might sort of suck to be stirring up some controversy, but I think it's generating an interesting and very timely discussion - so I appreciate it. :)
I always love your comments, Mira. (and it's kind of stressful, yeah, but I'm used to it by now...I create drama wherever I go, haha. It's only been a year and a half since high school. Still trying to shake it off.)
I was hoping this one would get picked! Great post and a good reminder to someone like me who is not naturally social.
Thank god - I was hoping someone would spell it all out like this.
What's given me the most encouragement, however, is reading the comments. It seems like people are really caught up seeing themselves as introverts, or else Artists, or whatever else has them stay away from social media and obtaining a larger audience.
I get it. You're not saying: this is the one and only way to sell books/get published/be awesome like you. But for those of us out there who are currently unpublished, or who even have a book out there, these are some things we can do to make people give a crap about what we have to say.
I'm going to print this post out. Thanks Hannah!
So glad you found it helpful, Maria!
Ms. Moskowitz - this may be the best thing Nathan has ever posted! Sorry, Nathan. Invaluable post. I'm going to send people in your direction - I'm already headed there. Thanks!
Julia--yay!
(and I'm at least twenty years away from "Ms. Moskowitz!" Please, hannah. :))
Hannah, you're wise beyond your years. Great post.
Great Post.
I get bored of author blogs that only talk about me me me, too :))
Vital information. This is one every aspiring writer should bookmark. Publishing is in a state of rapid change, and what you've outlined is what publishers expect of writers now. We may wish it otherwise, but them's the facts. Very well put facts, too. Thank you!
Linking to your great post. I think it's helpful for all authors to read.
We aren't locked in our attics? Since when? I never got the memo...Now I have to go pour out my my coffee, and stop talking to people about The notes on Nabokov...Great post I have a lot to change ;-) lol
I like your style and the article conveys that effectively. The advice to separate your blog self from your writing self registers deeply. I am about to start a blog on a subject I have good and original knowledge of whilst realizing I shall be talking to myself at least early on for a while. You remind me of my grandmother or this bossy lady I like who keeps things running ship shape in the nearby diner; the one who knows the customers expect their breakfast fast fast fast.
My favorite stereotype mask is OCD Nicholson in "AS GOOD AS IT GETS"
Carol Connelly: OK, we all have these terrible stories to get over, and you-...
Melvin Udall: It's not true. Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just; NO ONE in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good.
Two thumbs from the middle age coffee drinking cigar smoking writers who fantasizes about writing a great work but makes money doing other stuff.
Good work.
I definitely have to link this around. This was a great article and I couldn't agree with it anymore than recite it at a public forum.
hrmm. Not a bad idea. But I'm not the best at public speaking.
Thanks, Hannah - I like your comments and your blog. :)
And as someone considerably older than you, I can tell you one of the advantages of age is you get even better at creating drama! If you so choose, of course. After all, a fine sense of the dramatic bodes well for an author, I think. :)
But I don't think you actually created drama with this. I think you were right on the nerve of an on-going blog conversation - which is good. It's always good to talk things out - I think, anyway.
Good post, and good topic - thank you.
Thank you so much, everyone.
I maybe (maybe) didn't read the whole post. But I will. And I agree with the thing I read about the socks. Where in the hell are they hiding?? I could barely make it to work today (I'm a teacher. Kids demand socks on their teachers. Weird.)
erica
Woah, great post!
None of this means a damn if you're not writing books that people want to read. All this talk about the necessity of being hyperconnected comes with no proof of efficacy. Prove to me that Twitter increases sales. That a blog about writing or dogs or Winger tribute bands is gonna sell more of your YA or fantasy novels.
Seems to me the only people talking out there (and the only people listening) are writers, not readers.
Write a great book, join professional writer's associations, write more great books.
Instead of toiling away for hours on that blog entry about that killer shrimp-wrap I had this afternoon, or a review of Hannah's latest blog entry, shouldn't I stretch myself with a short story, a magazine article, or something else ... you know ... professional?
Anon: I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that. Like I said in the post--"this isn't about writing." Is writing more important than what I wrote about? Absolutely.
It's also a topic we discuss to death.
There is no proof that twitter increases sales. But there is more than enough proof, I believe, that who you know can get you several legs up along the way, and networking is a way to do that. It's also a way to keep you sane in what can be a very isolating career.
Of course none of this is important if you're not writing.
Very little is, really.
(And for the record, I have yet to see any evidence that a professional writer's association is more useful that Absolute Write--which is free and sure as hell counts as networking.)
Let's be honest. We're here commenting on this post. We're not writing. And that's FINE. You can't write all the time. And the idea that you should is so restrictive and guilt-inducing.
Going out and playing can be good for you, good for others, and good for your psyche.
I can't agree with you more about Twitter. I've met some really great people through that particular social medium. I've made connections and even had a request for my manuscript.
Just Tweet! LOL
@eileenandrews
I don't think there's one good writer who says: I don't have time to read.
Pei Hua--
I don't think there's one honest person who can say, "I have time to read everything."
I absolutely have time to read, but I definitely don't have unlimited time to read. I read what I want to read, which isn't always the book of the moment, but that doesn't mean I can pretend the book of the moment doesn't exist. People are going to talk about it and it's going to have an effect, so I need to know what's going on.
But I have my own likes and dislikes that go into what book I'm actually going to pick up. I'm in college and yeah, I don't have as much time to read as I like, so I have to be choosy. But everyone's reading list has holes.
Great post. I don't like to social network because I'm pretty much cooler than everyone else.
I do keep a blog, but I'm pretty sure twitter is the devil. I will not use it. It added nothing to what facebook already did except it made status updates harder to read and more full of stupid. No one needs to know I'm nearly out of nutella.
I hate to admit this, but I have no clue as to how to Twitter.
Best thing I read all day. Thanks.
@Chris Phillips - Bwa hahahaha! I needed to know you were almost out of nutella. (your comment made me laugh out loud.)
@Hanna: I think you are an old soul. There's a lot of insight in your writing. Great common sense in this post; cracked-out voice or not. (Not, in my opinion. Your voice reaches right out of the screen and grabs me. And I'm clearly not the only one.)
You said specific things that can be generalized, I think, and stretched to fit any personality type. Of course we should be considerate, interesting, selfless, and willing to get out there for our writing--whatever way we are comfortable doing it. But we should do it. Even if our blogs and tweets and stati are only being read by other writers - we are all colleagues. We need to know each other. It's a support system. At some point, if you do the things outlined in this post, I think your readers will show up too. We're all people. Connecting in a positive way is, you know, positive.
Yay you. Good post.
Eee, Janiel, yay you back.
Link it. Check. Like it. Check. Share it. Check. Print it off so I can refer back to it countless times. Check. This is some of the best advice for writers I've ever heard. Thanks for sharing!
Excellent advice, and practical. Thanks!
It's so true. I've stopped reading some blogs b/c once the writer got published that's all they talked about or 90% percent of the time. I don't mind a little but after a while it does get a little...boring.
Good stuff, Hannah. I particularly enjoyed the blogging advice. I simply won't read any more daily blogs (or Tweets or FaceBook status updates) about how many words you wrote today or how you worked on your outline or drew up character sketches this week. Bully for you, but I also don't want to hear anyone outside of Dave Barry or Dave Sedaris describing getting their socks on in the morning. Daily routine is not the stuff of blogging interest and it seems antisocial and narcissistic to insist on writing it down in any place other than a private journal.
Frickin' painful, I tell you.
The occasional success (or failure) update is fine, but the relentless self-promotion and play-by-play is hack. And boring.
Thanks for speaking plainly.
Akkkk! Hannah Moskowitz has created controversy on an otherwise very homogenous blog!! OMG! Is that possible? Can this really be true?
Yes, it is. And...THAT, my friends, is the sign of a good writer.
One who causes people to think... to speak out... to communicate!!
I don't think Hannah is telling all the shy writers out there not to be true to themselves, she's saying that we should not be afraid to embrace who we are, and to be true to ourselves.
She's also given us a whole list of ideas on the not so obvious, up and coming, "how-to's" of being a writer in today's electronic age of communication.
My hat's off to you, Hannah. Thank you for your post!!
I'm going to a writers' conference this weekend. Your blog reminded me that I need to open up and meet people--not just focus on classes/workshops. Thank you!
I'm still nervous about Twitter, but your other advice was so dang good, I might have to change my mind. Thanks for the insightful post!
Hannah,
Very informative post. You have a great voice, feels very genuine. I look forward to reading more from you!
http://chaseholland.blogspot.com/
I love this post, Hanna. Thank you. I'm not surprised by the different opinions on this. If you wish to write and remain anonymous and hermit-like and act like you don't care if your books sell because it's all about the writing and nothing else, if you moan about not being social (or wanting to be), or feel your writing should sell your books not your Twitter page, etc: I wish you luck. You'll need it.
You don't have to be everywhere or be crazy outgoing or even very likable. You do have to make sure people know who you are. It's called marketing and it doesn't matter what you're selling, if you want sales, you have to do it.
I'm not comfortable in social situations where I'm around people I don't know, and I avoid these situations like the plague. But I've learned to push myself a little. I blog, I freelance, I tweet and I moderate online writing groups. I even worked as a reporter for a local newspaper for a while. If you knew how shy I used to be, you'd see what a huge deal this is. I used to cry when strangers spoke to me.
By forcing myself to get over that, not only have I made a great network of friends, I've met really interesting people and learned things I wouldn't have otherwise. And my writing improved immensely because of this.
I'm not always exciting. I have no filter that says "Don't say that" and I am really opinionated. Hell, I'm not even likable some days. But, I have hundreds of people who know who I am. That's the point. When I have a book to offer these people, more than half will probably say "no thanks, I don't like you" but the rest might buy. If not for my 'networking' I wouldn't have even that small group of people buying. I'd have my mother and her friends. Sadly, my mother doesn't have very many friends.
I wish it were as simple as telling stories, but none of us are Rowling or Salinger and no one knows or cares who we are. Once we've gotten their attention and they've read our work, then possibly we can slip quietly away and never speak to another human being again and still sell books. But how do we get them to read that first book?
You had me at "I haven't read TWILIGHT." Nice to meet you. :-)
Thanks everyone! (and a special :) to Layla).
Renee--proving your point: I totally know who are you.
You do? Awesome. I apologize for spelling your name wrong. I just realized that. My bad.
Renee--it's no big.
It's weird when people are like "I'm reading this book by Hanna Moskowitz," though. My name's right there on the cover...
Ha! Yeah, and it was right there in front of me too.
My daughter just slapped me for not connecting you to the book that is currently on her nightstand. I'm not a very cool mom apparently. Or not very observant. I have to agree with a couple of comments made earlier; you have a very 'unique' voice that is nice to read.
And networking does work, to get back on topic. See how it works? Hannah knows 'of' me, and I know 'of' her and now I'm going to buy my daughter a certain book to make up for being such a dork.
Yesss! That is so awesome. Tell your daughter thanks :)
She says "No, thank you". New books are her favorite thing.
I've been learning all the things you mentioned since I started blogging. It's an interesting world out here for bloggers. It's such a great way to interact with others in the business.
Hannah...
= ] back at ya!!
L
"REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE A HUMAN CONNECTING WITH OTHER HUMANS."
The simple, bottom line. Pretend you're at a cocktail party. Don't pitch, just chat. The rest flows...
There really are other writers? Wow! I thought you guys were all figments of my imagination.
Now, back to my attic, typewriter, cigarettes and coffee…
Great advice! Fun writing style. Thanks for the post!
Terrific advice. I'm forcing myself to tweet and do FB. It's not normal for me. Maybe some day it will get easier.
Blogging would take SO MUCH time out of my actual writing time. And I have nothing interesting to say! It seems like a fake and useless way to "get out there."
Plus, so many of the writers I admire (especially YA authors) dont have twitters or blogs and they're doing just fine. This new phenom that all YA authors have to be friend online and have to give good reiews on goodreads and have to follow each other is jus so tedius to me.
I just want to write a good book!
Blogging is definitely not a requirement. If you have nothing to say, don't have one. But *don't* get one just to use as a promotional tool, because, like I said, blogs don't sell books. They just get your name out there.
Twitter is easy and not time-consuming, so saying you don't have time for it doesn't really fly for me. And it's a very, very easy way for writers (published or not) to connect with agents/editors/other writers, which can be both useful and therapeutic.
The YA writing world is completely incestuous, and I've blogged about that.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/13/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: How to Find a Literary Agent, guest blog, How to Write a Query Letter, Life of a Writer, Add a tag
Is there life after a query that strikes out with agents? My awesome client Jim Duncan, whose debut novel DEADWORLD will be published by Kensington next April, shares his experience. Make sure to catch the exciting contest on Jim's blog at the end of the post.
By: Jim Duncan
As you might guess from the title, I am not what one would call a good query writer. Mediocre at best. My wife (romance author Tracy Madison) whole-heartedly agrees with this assessment.
There are a couple of reasons for this. First, I will admit to not being a very good editor. It's very difficult for me to assess my own writing, and thus, I don't like doing it. Second, when it comes to certain aspects of the publishing process, I have little patience. When my book was done, I wanted to send out queries that moment.
Back in the old days of 2007, when I completed my novel for the first time, I had queries going out the next day. I made about half a dozen attempts, picked the one I liked the best and sent it out. I had done my research, making sure the agents wanted my genre, whether they took email or snail mail, getting their name correct, etc. I followed agent blogs like Nathan's, Miss Snark, Kristin Nelson, and others (there are a lot of good blogs for writers out there), to glean as much knowledge as I could about the process and how to make that query stand out. I failed. I received one of Nathan's polite form rejections.
What feedback I received (off of a roughly 90% rejection rate) did not like the multiple first person p.o.v.'s I used. Was I deterred? Of course not! I decided to rewrite the book in third person, because I felt very strongly about this story. Whether it was written well enough was another matter.
So, I wrote a new query, several versions in fact, and though I was not happy with any of them, I picked what I thought was the best of the lot and sent it out. There's that whole patience thing again. The results were marginally better, but still no real interest.
Knowing I can't write queries for shit, I figured that might be my biggest problem, so I wrote yet another and tried again a few months later. I sent it out to a couple of publishers who are open to submissions, and like all good writers should do, I began to work on my next book (can't stress this enough: keep writing!)
In the meantime, I had become a regular responder on Nathan's blog. I'd sent a couple of emails to him, suggestions for topics and such. Then, one fine day, I came up with a contest suggestion that became my 15 seconds of blog fame. Those of you who were around a year and a half ago may remember the Agent for a Day contest. At the time it generated the most hits ever on Nathan's blog (about 70k, and 15k comments). Through my willingness to participate and make suggestions, good or otherwise, I had cemented my name in Nathan's mind. We didn't become BFF's. It was some fortunate networking that happened out of interest as opposed to direct effort.
Then, I got the call. Kensington Publishing offered me a three book deal for my novel, Deadworld. Super excited? You bet. What struck me though, was the fact that they were buying my story as an urban fantasy. This entire time, I had been submitting it as a suspense/thriller. Head smack! What would have happened had I realized what genre my story was best suited for? Another good point learned well after the fact. Understand the market for your story!
With offer in hand, I really wanted to find an agent. I had no desire to do this on my own. I picked about a dozen agents that I had queried before and asked them if they would be interested in a second look because of the offer I had on the table. In hindsight, I didn't give them enough time, which was five days. I probably lost some potential agents with that. In the end, it came down to two.
Nathan, whom I'd already
Hi, Jim,
Congratulations on your three-book deal from Kensington, and for signing with Nathan as an agent! I’m planning to print out your Blog post today. It’s incredibly inspiring and full of hope for those of us who suck at writing queries.
I have the same kind of tenacity for writing the actual novel as you do. Right now, I’m basically rewriting my entire science fiction novel based on an extensive critique from Alan Rinzler. I’m finding this a complete joy. I definitely understand your willingness to rewrite your entire novel from a different perspective while still balking at the idea of crafting fine-tuned query letters.
Oh my God, your contest sounds awesome! Chuckle...what a great idea!
Your suggestion to keep writing is such a good one. Even though you might connect with an agent, it doesn't necessarily mean your agent will sell your first book. It might be your second or even your third one that finally sells. All the more reason to choose your agent carefully.
Congrats on your success!
Interesting story. When I wrote my first novel, I queried immediately as well. Big mistake. Now I take longer, but still haven't landed an agent yet. Queries stress me more than writing the entire manuscript.
I'll check out your contest.
Thanks for the post! It was very encouraging and very amusing! I love query stories with bad starts and happy endings -so congratulations!
And I think the contest on your blog sounds awesome...I will for sure try to enter.
Know your story. Submitting to the right agents is the first key to success.
Finding the right agents has little to do with your story. Even your book, Jim, was queried in the wrong subgenre. But you knew the agents through socializing and diligent research. 'Know the agents' is much better advice.
But not everyone can do that because...
Network. Be social.
That's all well and good if you have a scintillating personality. I'm a nice guy and a hell of a writer, but I have the personality of an arthritic porcupine. Every time I post on an agent's blog, I worry that I'm just getting myself added to another blacklist.
It bothers me that for authors, social skills are at least as important as writing skills. I can live with it and hopefully thrive in it, but it bothers me.
Always encouraging to read a success story that basically boiled down to a lot of hard work! Thanks for sharing!
That was fun to write!
Jim, I'm so happy for you and your success. I'm excited to hear about your upcoming book debut. Congratulations! I remember when you first got Nathan as your agent, and it's exciting to see you transform into a published author! Very cool! :)
Your story is interesting, because it talks about the query process as an organic process. You learned more about your work throughout. This makes sense because outside feedback can help clarify our work in our minds. I like that you didn't give up, too. I think there are times when revisiting a dream agent makes sense.
In terms of networking and helping an agent know your name, specifically Nathan, that's a really good point. I'm going to get right on that.
So, again, congratulations Jim. I hope it goes wonderfully for both you and Nathan.
Remus - I think what's important in Jim's story is not that he charmed Nathan - he had a good idea and then won a contest which helped him come to Nathan's attention.
I also think that writing a good book alone is plenty. Not all doors will open, but if you have a good book, many will.
A three-book deal! Congratulations, Jim.
And a very inspiring and reassuring post, to boot!
It's great to know that there is hope, even after sending the lousiest query ever - to Nathan, of all people - which I did, not knowing a thing about the American query system. Since, I have honed and polished, I had my SCBWI-mates check the query, I have researched agents, and I even got a recommendation from a senior editor of one of The Big Six.
One day I will get through, I know I will. I just have to be patient - the last thing on the list that I have to master...
Until that time I will keep writing.
Great post.
It rang a bell with me about genre. My critique group was working on my 2009 National Novel Writing Month manuscript. And one of them announced 'this is a YA novel'.
Not what I'd planned, but it made me happy to hear I could write YA.
Congratulations, Jim! I’ve noticed your comments on Nathan’s Blog, and always thought you stood out as a talented writer. To tell you the truth, I never understood why Nathan didn’t contact you, in order to offer to consider your work for publication.
I agree with Remus. It bothers me that agents let so many great authors and books slip by, waiting until the social aspect of their relationship with the writer feels right or the book already has a publishing deal. Many of the greatest writers have had reputations for being huge pains in the ass, but agents used to seek them out for their intelligent insights and the quality of their work. It might have made the agents’ lives more difficult, but that was part of their job. Agents have accused authors of having a sense of entitlement, but I think many agents have that – the desire for great success without too much trouble. As a result, the market has been flooded with lots of romance and YA books written by friendly, sociable people. Books with all different levels of writing skill are published in those genres, including those written in extremely simplistic language about extremely simplistic concepts.
So, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end this author's success at finding an agent had nothing to do with his query writing. He landed an agent through networking on blogs. Right?
If that's the case, then this isn't encouraging at all. I mean, congrats to him, but it's a bummer to all of us who are still relying on the query to do the job.
congrats on the 3 book deal! Man I wish I had your problems! Agents love my query, but then they get to my book and tell me its over written...
Hi Jim...
Thanks for your post. It's a great perspective on an intriguing success story.
Sharing your experiences and knowledge learned along the way is inspiring. In fact it has inspired me to change my post name from LaylaF to Layla Fiske...get my name out there, get involved...makes sense!
I'm looking forward to checking out your website.
L
"This is for amusement purposes, not to prove that you might be a sociopath." <--LAMO! That's awesome. This whole post was awesome.
Query letters are evil.
And congrats on the book deal and landing super agent, complete with orange cape. :o)
Congrats Jim.
Congrats, Jim!
Still, I find your story interesting: 3-book deal and no agent until after that deal was secured. I've been chugging forward on querying my own MS with agents, and I suspect I'm nearing the end of that part of the journey. I've had a few material requests, but none lately (despite a finely edited q letter which has been through QLH on Absolute Write and which my critique group tells me is sound and good-to-go), and only one full still out. The past month has been nothing but form rejections. I'm not optimistic about it.
But I am feeling pretty okay about going straight to publishers, increasingly. Nathan's one of the few agents that suggests that you might be okay in doing that, and I've stumbled across quite a few publishing stories lately that seem to start with getting a book deal, which then opens up the doors for an agent. And my goal is publication, and I believe in my book. Stories like yours only emphasize to me that it might be the right way to go.
Now I don't feel bad anymore. I stink at queries too. Congratulations on all the success.
Perseverence should be every writer's middle name. Unless, of course, it's OprahWindreysNieceorNephew. That's good, too.
Love your article. Kudos to you for getting a publishing deal for three books and getting Nathan as your agent! I think your conclusions about specific lessons to be learned from your experience, however, are deeply flawed. First of all, you underestimate your ability to write query letters. You obviously wrote a query letter that landed a three-book deal from a publishing house! Here are the conclusions I reached after reading your article:
- Write a good book. Edit it.
- Socialize with agents online.
- Find a publisher.
- Then contact an agent. With a publishing deal already in hand, agents will be happy to represent you. Agents with whom you’ve socialized online might be extra happy to represent you. (As an aside, I should probably mention that I have a major publishing house interested in my book without having received any interest from agents in response to my query letters.)
I'm selling this book. You wouldn't want to buy it, would you?
Jim,
Congratulations on your book deal, and finding such a nice agent in the process too.
What a great mid-week gem for all aspiring authors! I wish you all the best.
Great contest idea too.
Jim, you're awesome. Love your post.
Nathan's forums.
You know, it strikes me that the forums are a nice place to socialize with others from around the blogs and Nathan, as well.
But so many people pop in and don't comment, or comment a few times and leave. I wish they'd stay - and have fun and let people get to know them.
I agree with the comment someone made that writing the book was easier than writing the query.
Everytime I send out my query, Iam so stressed.
I find this post encouraging and discouraging, all at once. It seems unfair that in order to get the attention of agents who had already deemed you unfit for their efforts, you had to do part of their job by garnering the attention of a publisher. How bad could your query REALLY have been if this added incentive made them "see the light" regarding your novel? I am convinced that agents who ask you to submit sample pages with your query don't read those pages if they don't like your query, and I feel like you've proven me right. Whatever your query was missing, your sample pages should have been enough to give an agent pause, but you had to go above and beyond. And as someone who writes crappy queries, that irks me!
I find this post encouraging and discouraging, all at once. It seems unfair that in order to get the attention of agents who had already deemed you unfit for their efforts, you had to do part of their job by garnering the attention of a publisher. How bad could your query REALLY have been if this added incentive made them "see the light" regarding your novel? I am convinced that agents who ask you to submit sample pages with your query don't read those pages if they don't like your query, and I feel like you've proven me right. Whatever your query was missing, your sample pages should have been enough to give an agent pause, but you had to go above and beyond. And as someone who writes crappy queries, that irks me!
Wow, great story. Reminds us to not give up. Thanks for the inspiring post!
Great anecdote, Jim! :) Congrats on the accomplishments you've made, you're lucky to have Nathan as an agent! Thanks for the tips and for sharing, your story is very inspiring.
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
Wow---kudos on your three-book deal! What I'd like to know is how do you get a major publisher to respond, especially when you marketed it under a different genre? I've tried a few editors (pubs who take unsolicited mss.) and can't even get a reply, much less a book deal. What's your secret??
Whenever I write a query I feel like I'm trying to shove my entire body into a one by one box. Which makes sense as if I'm taking 100k and bringing it down to 100.
Oy
What a fantastic success story and very inspiring, thanks for sharing it with us. Having myself received a mixture of responses to queries including total silence/straight rejections/encouraging comments but client list full, I am still none the wiser whether my query letters suck!
So will definitely start looking for feedback and keep going, thanks again and congratulations.
I can't wait to write my first query. I bet I'm a fantastic query writer. The problem is the book.
Hmm, maybe I should offer a service.
Thanks for sharing this! It was generous, useful and timely. Wishing you great success!
You know, it never occurred to me for an instant to requery any agents that sent form rejects after I'd landed a couple of publishing offers. I thought I should restrict the requery list to those who showed some initial interest.
Can't say it's an approach I'd be willing to take, but if you're comfortable with the result, that's all that matters.
Congratulations on your book deal - that's awesome!
Congrats, Jim. Way to go!! I entered your contest, now maybe I'll have a chance to hook Nathan as an agent. Thanks for the opportunity.
Thanks for the post Jim, and for pointing us towards your blog. Creeptastic!
Some commenters seem to be discouraged--but there are many avenues to getting published. I'm sure if you asked 20 authors, you'd get 20 different stories on how they landed their first book deal!
Enjoyed your post, Jim, and also checked out your blog site. Good luck with the contest! Also liked the post about the ghosts in the underground vaults in Scotland (where much of my heritage came from).
You have some valid points regarding an author's own awareness about his work. When the story crosses genre lines, it's hard for the author to see where it fits best. That's where our beta readers and those assessing our work (agents, editors, etc.) can sometimes give us a heads-up.
You're fortunate to have found a great agent as well, Jim. Looking forward to seeing your book in 2011.
Mr. Duncan,
Impressive! And, thank you. I am in the midst of writing my first mystery thriller, so I think this is the genre. Great advice, I'll triple check to be sure. I stopped writing because of the Query letter it literally freaked me out. I decided to give it another stab, I did and I am still alive to share. I agree with you writing about oneself is very difficult, but we must believe in ourselves to overcome the menace of the Query. I've decided to embrace the Query letter as my best friend. And in the near future, I'll be sending my queries. Much success to you and again thank you.
Thank you for all of the feedback everyone. It's much appreciated. Also, another round of thanks for those who have come over to my blog to check out the contest. There are a lot of funny entries. I'm looking forward to perusing them all.
Congratulations, Jim Duncan!
Remus, I AM an arthritic porcupine. Luckily, Nathan’s blog has no ’humans only’ rule. I deeply resent your stereotyping of my species and disability.
I don’t have a personality, since I’m not a person. But, among porcupines, arthritic or otherwise, I’m the life and soul of the party. Yes, porcupines do have souls.
I DO curl up in a ball sometimes, but that’s just expected if you’re a porcupine. I write all the time, of course. I have to do something with all those quills…
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/12/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: guest blog, How to Write a Novel, Add a tag
By: Livia Blackburne
You could say that fiction is about pain. When you boil them down, stories describe characters taking hits and trying to emerge as unscathed as possible. Neighborhood under attack by zombies? Run hard and hope you have some painkillers on hand if they catch you. Or what if it’s actually a friendly, attractive zombie who loves you? In that case, it’s all good -- until you realize that mortals and undead can never be together. Oh the agonies of unfulfilled love!
So stories and torment come hand in hand. As a reader, you’re with the characters, empathizing with their struggles and hoping for a happy ending. How does this work? What is it in our brains that lets us understand other people’s pain? Well I'm glad you asked, because neuroscientists have made some progress on this question.
How do you study empathy and pain? One current technique involves electric shocks and people who love each other.
Neuroscientist Tania Singer came up with a clever experiment. She recruited women with their significant others. Singer put the woman inside an fMRI brain scanner while the significant other sat outside. Both participants were connected to electrodes capable of administering a painful shock. (Now before my fellow neuroscientists accuse me of ruining our reputations, I should emphasize that these participants were paid handsomely and had the option to stop the experiment at any time.)
Throughout the experiment both the woman and her partner received shocks, and a computer screen indicated who was getting the painful treatment. Singer found that a certain network of brain regions in the woman’s brain activated when she was in pain. But what happened when the significant other was shocked instead? The same network lit up when the woman knew that her partner was getting shocked. It turns out that we process other people's pain with the same brain regions that we use to process our own.
This kind of makes sense. Think about the last time you read a passage about a painful experience. Depending on how engaging the writer was, you might have felt like you were suffering alongside the character. But that's not the whole story. Many people suffer in stories, but we’re not always upset about it. What happens if the person in pain is someone we don't like?
Singer and colleagues did another study asking that question. This time, they had participants play a game before the brain scan. Unbeknownst to the participants, some players in the game were actually actors working with the scientists. One actor's job was to play the game fairly, while the other actor’s job was to play in an obviously unfair way. You can guess which actor was more popular.
Then it was off to the scanner again. The real participant went inside the scanner, while the two actors sat outside. Again, shocks were delivered, and the computer screen indicated who was receiving the shock.
This time, the results depended on whether the participant was a man or a woman. Both genders had empathy-related brain activation when the fair player was in pain. However, the men had less empathy- related activation when the unfair player was shocked. What’s more, they had increased activation in reward-related brain areas when the unfair player got shocked. The men actually enjoyed it when the unfair player was in pain (“Bastard had it coming!”). After the experiment, Singer asked the men to rate their desire for revenge toward the unfair player. It turns out that amount of reward-related brain activation in men correlated with their desire for revenge. In guys at least, it seems that the response to someone else's pain depends on whether or not that person deserved it.
Now as with all studies, we should remember that this is only one data set and it needs to be replicated. Also, note this study does not distingui
awesome, thought-provoking post! we, the writers, are emotional puppet masters... muwahahaha...
In my last novel the women in my critique group thought my villain didn't suffer enough and I needed to drag out the pain.
The man in my group didn't comment on the amount of violence.
I guess I have a sample of revenge and punishment thirsty women.
Hee Hee Hee
Sorry, but I think the results are a one-off deal that got the results the tester was looking for by accident or design.
Women are generally MORE vicious than men when it comes to someone getting their comeuppance. Men like revenge in the moment, but then (again, generally) move past it as penance paid.
Women stew.
Women stew and plan.
Women stew and plan and execute the plan with a follow-through the typical male doesn't bother with.
This is especially true if they've suffered a personal slight.
These sort of shock tests are nothing new, even if this one is current. They've been a part of behavioral science studies for years in one form or another. A common one is to actually put the person being testing in charge of administering the shocks, whether the current actually exists or not, they're told it does. This is to determine the willingness to make another human suffer for a specific goal or greater good.
Yes, women generally empathize, but that same depth of emotion can be turned the other direction with devastating results.
Is this experiment an affirmation of schadenfreude? Makes me wonder about the levels of fiction. Tabloids dial up the fiction-o-meter to great excess. vnrieker's comment may not be far from true. Did the experiment test the bounds of empathy? Was a little pain ok, therefore suggesting an internal judgement of "acceptability" before the subjects responded?
Extremely interesting post.
*hee* that second study sounds like fun!! I know a few people I'd happily try that on *mwahahahaha*
www.damselinadirtydress.com
Perry -- Haha, that's awesome. I'd like to meet your critique group. Or perhaps I wouldn't...
Josin -- The thing to remember with scientific studies is that they are a snapshot of how a single group of people behave under a carefully replicated set of conditions. All studies are "one-off deals" until you combine lots of related studies into a coherent picture. So it's certainly possible, as you suggested, under that other conditions, perhaps involving more of a personal slight or emotional pain, the gender differences might be nonexistant, or in the opposite direction. That said, this is the result they got, and the difference was statistically strong enough to be published, so while you shouldn't run with it and say "All Men Are Jerks!!!", I wouldn't completely dismiss the dataset as an accident either.
Douglas -- Great point about schaudenfraude, that and perhaps the need for justice. The paper presents it as saying men are enforcers of "altruistic punishment." Enforcing rules of society and such...
Great post, Livia! I really enjoyed hearing the relevant science behind shadenfreude.
Now if Freud had been in that room, you can just imagine all the theories he would have come up with.
Livia,
Your Blog post is fascinating. And congratulations on being a graduate student at M.I.T. – that is awesome! Although my Masters degree is in Clinical Psychology, I did research for my Masters Thesis in the field of Social Psychology and found it absolutely fascinating. My research looked into whether or not varying the characteristics of a person in a newspaper article changed whether or not subjects found them guilty or innocent of a crime for which they were tortured. To my complete horror, changing insignificant, minor details about the person in the newspaper article did have an influence.
Marilyn -- Those are indeed depressing results...
Great article. You might be very interested in key word "presponse"
heres a starting link to cut and paste.
http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~stapp/presponse.txt
Presponse involves the field interaction of mind with matter. The crux of the issue is; if I put all the posters on this board in a chair in front of a screen upon which I would then display 100 pictures while they were wired to sensor devices; the sensors would light up with a distress response slightly before they actually were shown the 1-out of-10 pictures inserted of traumatic content.
In terms of writing being the author is akin to trying to be a noble dungeon master in a role playing game.
I try to write ensemble cast pieces with a small circle of main players (each supported by a sub cast) interweaving their interactions towards a shared goal or outcome each understands differently; while providing sub quests and obstacles along the way as a framework to explore each characters depth.
Men insist on fair play to insure the survival of the group as a whole. It's genetically programmed into us. Some of us are wingmen and some of us are pilots some of us are bombardiers and some of us are tail gunners; but one way or another we all want to take off, achieve the missions goal and land. We paint women's pictures on the plane to remind us of why we do it; and also to remind us of who got us into this mess in the first place when we crash in the desert.
Oh good - I was hoping Nathan would pick yours, Livia. It's fascinating, and a very different and intelligent take on writing.
I think it's very interesting to think about your WIP, your audience and how to appeal to them. I think as we understand the science of the mind more and more, we'll understand more about why some books really hit it out of the ballpark. It can tell us a great deal about human nature, and the impact of story.
In terms of the actual research, I would be very interested if these results holds true over age and socioeconomic status.
But assuming they do, well, that requires a total change of tone to my post, doesn't it? Because I think this explains ALOT about the world. For example, it explains why men want to be in charge of the world, and, quite frankly, why they should never, ever, ever, ever be allowed to be in charge of the world.
Pleasure out of revenge and conquest - well, that's war, in all of it's various forms, isn't it?
Of course we knew men started wars, but now we have another idea of WHY.
No offense to male readers, of course, I just think that if this research stands, you would be better off watching sports games on the weekend, and leave the running of the world to the other gender.
Just saying.
Fascinating post! Makes me anxious to go inflict pain on my characters. (That was the intent, wasn't it?)
Well done.
Mira --
LOL you make me laugh, esp that part about the sports games. Thank you :-)
Man, I feel like I need to jump in and defend men now that I've attacked them with a big fat science club over the head. I think there are times when you do want people who find the punishing of unfair people to be rewarding. After all, if you have a functioning society, you need to find and punish the rule rreakers, and it's good to have people who are motivated to do that. Say for example if you are hunting murderers or child molesters, then you want someone who is really gung ho about tracking him down.
Livia: it must be totally awesome to say you are a brain scientist!
This is an interesting study: particularly for its focus on the areas of the brain where one feels empathy and not so much about empathizing (if one does or not).
Josin, I have to take issue with that generalization of yours. Maybe sociopathic women! Or the occasional teenage girl. Plus, wanting to see someone get their comeuppance doesn't necessarily equal vicious thoughts of violence and pain. I wouldn't mind the snooty man to be taken down a notch, but I don't want to see him get hit by a car! Perhaps I'm off and not getting your message, but my feminism got stirred.
Fascinating post! Like others said, though, women can be quite vindictive and vengeful, too. It'd be interesting to see the results of related experiments where the nature of the unfairness was altered. I expect many women might have more moments of schadenfreude if they'd been personally slighted than they do when dealing with a cheater in a game.
I've hunted and captured the worst of the worst. The type of predators who hunt again forgetting how many bodies have been left unburied or even uneaten. (retired)
Sometimes the female thinker-intellectual forgets how hard it might be for a man who is trained his whole life to always protect and never to strike a female to then be alone with a female who then insists on taking her clothes off and teaching him how to torture her exactly the way she likes to be tortured to enter a state ecstasy.
That's what it feels like for a man who is well raised to learn how to shed his inhibitions and become an animal in a mutually consenting race towards sexual bliss. It feels like you are being slowly retrained to be a sadistic-penetrate. Have you ever considered how scary it might be for a boy to "take" a girls virginity at her polite and very clever entrapping encouragement. Women like to see men as cold blooded because it turns them on. But, they always want to "retrain" the nice ones. It's all actually quite logical. A woman can never imagine what it's like to "take" a woman unless she's a well developed healthy dominant lesbian. It's an art form. Hence the recent mega success of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo." because it explores loving women from the man's point of view. The guy (writer)actually died when the series was finished. That my fellow writer aspirants is dedication 10.0 TEN point OHhhhh.
Fortunately I have known 4-5 women who truly loved me romantically plus a vast group of female family relationships across four generations.
Women are complicated. PERIOD.
Luvia - good point. That type of motivation is good for a Hunter of any type, and undoubtedly helped the species survive.
I felt alittle guilty as well, pointing the finger at an entire gender. I don't have any issue with men being keen on Justice. That's a good thing.
This is a great post, Livia! It's great to have research and writing paired up - long overdue!
Steppe, men are complicated, too. :) I'm sorry if it seemed like I was putting down men - I was partly teasing and partly making a point - but not my intent to dismiss an entire gender. Sorry if it seemed like I was.
Great post, interesting experiment.
It reminds me of the scene in Ghostbusters when Bill Murray shocks the guy even though he's right and doesn't shock the girl because she's pretty. Except this experiment has more integrity.
Ahhh. This makes sense. Using a football-related analogy, I used to feel for my Charger friends when their team lost, but due to more details than I'll get into here, now it matters little and I actually enjoy seeing the Chargers lose. (I know other lisa will hate me now!)
Anyway, this week I'm inflicting both emotional and physical pain on my MCs. More emotional than physical and I'm trying to make the situations as complex and gray-area-d as I can.
I think that study would be fascinating if both participants were female. Think about how women work very hard to inflict emotional wounds, usually in way that won't obviously trace back to them. Give them little buttons to push that shocks the other, and I'm betting both of them end up with some hot fillings in their teeth.
Or maybe it's just me. Who knows?
Either way, it's an excellent thought-provoking post.
Great post.
neat, interesting post. different.
Livia,
Thanks so much for the post. It sent my mind spinning into all sorts of directions. A nice break in the middle of a long work day.
Amazing post as always, Livia. So much to think about.
Such an interesting subject and well written. Congratulations!
Rick -- Lol. Perhaps to be safe, one should beautify oneself before participating in any psych experiments.
Love this - but I'm kind of a "science/brain-stuff" geek --
Love peeking inside how our brains work, and pulling it into the writing - dang cool.
Holy crap! My brain is buzzing from this one. My first question is who would sign up for this experiment? Ouch!
In my former life I was a seventh grade writing teacher. I always had a free choice project going, and I must admit, the boys loved pain and darkness in their writing. But, I do think they they experienced less of it. The girls, however, were often living lives full of drama and chaos. They'd gather in the bathroom, huge packs of PMS Princesses, and try to work through it all.
Now that I hang out at my computer every day, I'm enjoying the drama. All I can say is, bring it on! Does that make me a sicko? Nah, I'd rather be a PMS Princess.
I've enjoyed all the posts this week. But this one in particular was very interesting.
The flaws of that study or the intepretation or conclusions pre-assume four questionable premises based on personal projections, albeit the kind of premises that feed and self-reinforce and come out of groupthink. That empathy is good. That pain is bad. That punishing misbehavior is proper. That finding humor in the misfortune of others is improper.
Empathy is a natural and automatic response to pitiable and/or fearful or other emotional situations. It's not because empapthy feels other beings' pain, it's because external pain is internalized by empathy. In extreme situations an excess of empathy is crippling or a lack of empathy is considered sociopathic. Society projects a preference for some middle normative value for the good of society, but society is a majority rules tyrrant dictating what's proper and shunning or condemning outliers because of their strangeness.
Pain is a sentinel warning that something with the body is awry. A good thing when there's an unhealthy condition. Pain is good in that regard. But chronic pain leads to self-serving treatment with dangerous obscuring consequences. Drug addiction, alcohol addiction, addiction to steroids and pain blocks. Then there's histrionic personality types who thrive on emotional pain because it gets them attention to alleviate their feelings of inadequacy.
Therefore, punishing misbehavior too often rewards misbehavior.
Finding humor in the misfortune of others comes back around to empathy, but inverted. External acts internalized as humor instead of emotional pain. It also comes back around to punishing misbehavior through shaming, embarrassing loss of face. Which, again, is society dictating behaviors.
It takes all kinds to makeup a healthy society. Without outliers to compel change, strengthen vitality, and set outlying examples of unwanted and desirable behaviors, there'd be a pea green soup world of apathetic, stagnant, dreary monocultural sameness.
Thank Providence for the outliers.
John Jack,
You're right that pain and empathy are not necessarily a priori good or bad. To use a rather disturbing example, someone with high empathy would be a very skilled torturer/interrogator, because she would be able to understand how her victim feels, and would be able to devise the best techniques for inflicting the most pain and extracting the most information. It all depends on context.
Interesting post considering that my blog post yesterday was about also character empathy. However, I'm afraid I don't have the same eloquence as Ms. Blackburne. The study still doesn't explain the real reason why we can empathize. That's what I want to know.
Social beings empathize because, There but for the grace of Providence go we. We find pathos vicariously infuential. We don't like loss. Loss to others is loss we internalize and process emotionally, physically, intellectually, spiritually, and perhaps recreationally.
Empathy is a natural instinct for learning survival skills from internalizing others' losses.
Know thy enemy. Know thy friends, family, acquaintances. Know and own thy mistakes, frailties, foibles, and failings. From knowing comes understanding, compassion, wisdom, and reasoned responses.
Brooke - That's the million dollar question! Ask a scientist and they would say we evolved the trait as social animals, to help us have better functioning societies, thus livign longer and reproducing more. Ask a philosopher or theologian, I bet you'll get something very different :-)
Excellent blog post! Helps me understand men a little more. Thanks!
Fascinating post! When I think about it, the people I know generally fit the results.
Bookmarked!
I can see how women are more likely to cause emotional pain than men. But I think men are more likely to adopt roles of power and extort them. I think the Stanford Prison Experiment showed that (granted it was only men). Men are also motivated to violence easier.
Either way, tis a wonderful way to torture our characters.
*rubs hands with glee*
Livia - I always love your posts. What a brilliant way to rethink a familiar subject.
Kristi
Haha - not sure this needed to be verified by science, but... *lulz*
Fawn - Oh snap!
Mira, not at all offended. This is the great subject of most writing the planter verses harvester in us all.
These issues are the nexus for so many great books. Growing up in the seventies there was always a socio-cultural question thinkers asked each other: "Have you read WAR AND PEACE?" I was twenty-five before I could say yes. It was awesome and I was bummed it didn't go on for an extra 1000 more pages.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/11/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: guest blog, Life of a Writer, Staying Sane While Writing, Add a tag
By: T.H. Mafi
LUST
there you are, just staring at your computer or eating your carnival corndog or spacing out in the middle of a conversation when it hits you. A SHINY NEW IDEA. it’s beautiful and original and nothing like the rest of them and for a perfect moment you can already see your future together. you know you have to have it before someone else does and your next move is going to be critical. luckily, enough people commented on your blog today that you’re feeling confident. extra-attractive. you decide to make it yours.
SQUEEEEEEEEEEE
everything is surreal. you can’t stop thinking about it no matter how hard you try and let’s be honest – you don’t really want to. you’re convinced that this time everything is going to be different. this is The One. the one that’s going to make agents cry over you, editors throw money at you, bestseller lists around the world make room for you at the top. maybe you have a title already? maybe you’ve even written a really excellent first paragraph? you don’t care. none of that matters. the only thing that really matters is Oprah is going off the air. she has no idea how much you were looking forward to that interview.
ANTICIPATION
things are still pretty good. you’ve told Facebook and Twitter and the only five friends you know in the real world that you’re writing a new book and people seem moderately interested which is already better than last time. you haven’t really started writing yet, but you will. in fact, you’ve already got the first chapter written! and the more you read it, the more you’re convinced you’ve never written anything quite as incredible. you can’t wait to dive into the story! SERIOUSLY. you can just feeeeeel how amazing this is going to be. maybe you should buy a new outfit to celebrate.
PROCRASTINATION
well! you've written a few chapters! but GOSH you are just so BUSY these days and the kids are so CRAZY and work is just HECTIC and you've discovered all these really awesome websites recently and it's now become a "thing" of yours to refresh your email and update your Twitter and "Like" at least five things on Facebook before you open up that Word Document. but it's not like you're avoiding it or anything! it's just -- you're having a bit of a rough patch! but you'll work through it! you'll figure out this plot twist! well, first you'll figure out a plot but then! then things will work out! you just need to find a way to communicate your needs! relationships are ALL ABOUT DIALOGUE!
EXPLETIVE
WELL MAYBE IF YOU WEREN’T SO DAMN NEEDY I WOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO YOU! DID YOU EVER THINK OF THAT? DID YOU EVER THINK THAT MAYBE I HAVE TO PAY THE BILLS AROUND HERE AND MAYBE I CAN’T SPEND EVERY FREE MOMENT OF MY LIFE STROKING YOUR FREAKING EGO AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST WRITE YOURSELF ALREADY I’M SO SICK AND TIRED OF THIS CRAP I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE WITH YOUR UGLY ADVERBS AND THOSE STUPID DANGLING PARTICIPLES YOU THINK MAKE YOU SOUND LIKE SHAKESPEARE GOD YOU'VE CHANGED INTO SOMETHING I CAN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE MAYBE WE SHOULD REALLY STOP FOOLING OURSELVES ABOUT THIS WHEN CLEARLY I'M THE ONLY ONE TRYING TO MAKE THIS WORK I HATE YOU SOOOO MUCHHHHHHHHH
INFIDELITY
you didn't even see it coming! I MEAN GOSH THINGS WERE GOING SO WELL! but there it was. sitting on the outskirts of your imagination the whole time, teasing you with promises of what could be. ANOTHER SHINY IDEA! it was wearing a flippy skirt and red lipstick and it sounded so intelligent you couldn't help but fall for its false proclamations. but you were too dazzled to realize that this new SNI was only a distraction. it was fleeting. unfulfilling. a concept with no tangible form. a cheap thrill with no literary value. you feel cheated. you feel dirty. YOU'RE SO ASHAMED.
GROVELING
you messed up. you never meant t
Love it! I'm also kinda sad about that fantasy interview with Oprah being off the table at this point lol.
If I could, I would buy a hundred little Taherehs and box them up and stick shiny ribbons on them and give them to everyone I know for Christmas. Because everyone needs a Tahereh.
Just listen to Miranda's "Kissin' U" I think that settles all inquiries. To Valerie Flame I mean K nice try. Good guide though and you Nathan? You should work for Stargate. J/K
ha ha love this post, I have also been known to cheat on my WIPs but they have not caught me yet.
I wish one of them would give me a sequel already
Great job, Tahereh!
Is it considered cheating on your WIP if you fall in love with a blog post?
This is a beautiful post!
Haha! I felt like I was getting called out here. Gotta get back to it... and finish.
~2
It's awesome posts like these that make me drop to my knees and shout "thank god I'm not alone".
Or they would if my boss weren't watching my every move...
*Thumbs up*
This post is awesome. I can totally relate to every stage. I love the truth intertwined with comic relief!
That "Procrastination-Expletive" section sound like me alright! Now about my writing...Writing does feel like a relationship. I'm learning that it certainly takes as much commitment. Eeesh. Who knew?
love it!
I'm in class and trying so hard not to laugh. This is amazing. I tip my hat to you.
Argh, young AND talented, how disgusting (kidding). Superb way to look at the relationship between a writer and the work, T! I'm just coming out of the procrastination stage of my WIP...
Awesome post! I know I totally relate.
It reminds me of another funny post on writing by the talented Libba Bray found here: http://libba-bray.livejournal.com/36896.html
Don't - don't talk about us like that :'( We're not going to go through most of these stages because right now, we're so in love WE'RE GETTING MARRIED.
Ugh, who am I kidding? I went through the exact same phases with my debut. But, no, no, no. We'll get through this. We'll get through this. Mmmmhhmmm..Mmmmmhhmmm....
I [heart] my WIP! Yes, baby, I'm talking about you 'cause you're sooooo awesome..
*thinking* : Gosh I sound so stupid.
So true. I'm currently experiencing Procrastination, Expletive, Infidelity, and Groveling. I have yet to reach Love. I don't even know what Love feels like. *Sigh*
At least I know what I'm going though is normal and doesn't mean I shouldn't be bothering!
Excellent post! *bookmarked*
And do all these phases repeat through revisions? Great post.
I woke up to this before going to the day job. I can't stop laughing.
A lovely post you have a great sense of humour.
Ahahaha! Ohmygosh, I love this so much. Total ROFL at the expletive stage. Thanks for the laughs! :)
This is EXPLETIVE SQUEEEEEEEEEEE.
It's not really infidelity if you truly broke up with your first Shiny New Idea, right? Or on a break. We were on a break, I swear!
This post is so great. Thanks.
Ha Ha T. You nailed it! Now at least I know I'm normal...(or not!)
Thanks for the humor. Loved it!!
Funny!
I love this post! Hilarious. I forgot I wasn't reading Nathan, and that's quite a compliment.
This is brilliant. Love it!!!
very funny. Thanks!
Super Duper entertaining, T.H.! Yep, I likes it.
Hilarious. :D Although my manuscripts fuly understant that thou I may be commited to them at the moment I still toy with other ideas. Not something I would recomend in human relatioships though.
Ah! I started the infidelity stage today!!
This needs to be printed and taped to my big fancy roll-top desk to remind me that....I am in love.
tnx T.H.
Holy cow, that is freakin' awesome!!!!
I love this so very much.
Can you write for Nathan from now on? You're MUCH funnier!
Hil-ar-ious! Amazing energy and cleverness. I don't know why I think I'm a writer after reading this. I don't write, I just indulge my fantasies. You've captured the writer's life. It's all about the up and down relationship; like the post of two days pointed out in regard to the author/agent fling. And you're only 22? Serious depression looming.
Actually, your post made my day. :)
Like everybody else said!
I just have to say I NEVER click through to comment but this was so freakin' funny that I had to come say brava!!
Oh dear, the infidelity. I hate how it makes me feel, but I can't help it.
This was as close to brilliant as it gets.
Why does this sound sooo familiar?? oh its about me!!! lol!!thank you to the author for putting her thoughts together and not going on the the next "shiny idea".
Oh this is so lovely. Thank you for making my night!
hahaha, this is scary but also kind of a relief. I thought I was the only one who went through this :)
aaaaand scene!
That was fabulous and it's spot on. I've experienced all of these stages, more than once. *Sigh*
Very good post!
So many shiny new ideas, so little time. It's official. I'm a novel ho.
This is spot on and made me laugh first thing in the morning. Brilliant. I am sharing this with every writer I know.
I've been cheating on my novel with my blog. You see my blog is just so easy. We get along so well. I post pictures, they take up a lot of space, I talk about food. People give me feedback. My blog is a good date. It listens. My blog gives back!
Right now, I'm cheating on my novel with this blog.
I just may need therapy.
Nice.
Hysterical! Don't know whether to laugh or cry. I do know I'm printing it out and posting above my writing desk. That infidelity of mine has got to go!
It applies just as well to nonfiction, and really to any great idea that we entertain but cheat on.
Thanks!
Great post. So true. It reminded me of Winston Churchill's description of writing a book:
“Writing a book is an adventure. To begin with, it is a toy and an amusement; then it becomes a mistress, and then it becomes a master, and then a tyrant. The last phase is that just as you are about to be reconciled to your servitude, you kill the monster, and fling him out to the public.”
I guess great minds think alike!
LOL. If I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying. I'm so at the EXPLETIVE stage of our relationship...
Ask my first five incomplete manuscripts. I never finish anyt..
I think I'm in a polyamorous relationship with my projects... And I'm in the procrastination phase with all of them, very very prolonged. Oh God, now I feel so dirty!
This was an awesome post! So true.
Umm, this post pretty much made my day. Freaking hilarious and brilliant!
I'm at the Procrastination [Station] stage right now. xD Maybe I can skip the Infidelity part? Haha.
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
HAHAHA!! Awesome! I've totally gone through all those stages (well, okay, i'm working on the love stage where the darn thing is actually completed but...who said that was the whole point anyway?)
The expletive stage...hmmm, yes, very, very familiar with that one...and doing the procrastination stage even as I type this comment, lol.
Woohoo! I've reached the groveling stage. SO happy to see that means I'm nearing true love! Awesome post!
Definitely in the "stop calling and leave me alone" procrastination phase :-) Great post!
LOVED it! Especially the Expletive section. Made me laugh out loud.
Thanks for this!
Love this, wonderfully written and so true! Hilarious!
I smiled the whole way through this. Awesome. :)
I tell my b/f all the time that I'm not the only writer that gets really excited about a new idea. Starts it, then part way through gets "sidetracked" and starts another, only to go crawling back to my original WIP.
When I read this to him, he laughed and shook his head. I still don't think he's completely convinced.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/10/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Add a tag
By: Valerie Kemp
Last summer I attended the Iowa Summer Writing Festival. I took a workshop on first chapters called "Frontloading: The Crucial First Chapter" and the thing I learned that stuck with me the most was that the first chapter is a promise to the reader. It tells them what kind of story they're going to be getting, and what to expect. This is true, even if you don't intend for your first chapter to do that, because it's the way we read. Breaking that promise can frustrate, and disappoint your reader.
That doesn't mean you should give everything away. You don't have to reveal your plot twists, but if your book is a sci-fi thriller, don't let your first chapter read like chick-lit.
By the end of the first chapter, the reader should have some sense of what the main conflict of the book is going to be. They don't need to know all the details, but they should be able to tell the genre, have a good sense of who (what type of person) the main character is, and how their world is changing. Knowing these things sets up anticipation in the reader, it makes them want to read on and see how the events unfold. Not knowing these things makes the reader wonder what the heck this book is about, and if they should even bother to read on and see what happens.
EXAMPLE:
Here's an example of a book with a great first chapter:
The Hunger Games - In the first chapter of The Hunger Games we get to see Katniss' everyday world. We learn about the Hunger Games and the Reaping and the high chance that Gale and Katniss will be picked. We see that Katniss is responsible and protective of her sister, Prim, whose name is in the Reaping for the first time. And in the very last sentence of the chapter there's a shock as Prim's name is called.
This is a GREAT end of a first chapter. As a reader we're left with a sense of dread. We know what Katniss must do, and we know that we're in for an exciting ride because we're going to experience the Hunger Games with Katniss. We're also introduced to the mechanics of Collin's writing - cliffhanger chapters. Both with story and with structure, she has shown us what to expect, and how to read her book. And she delivers.
Now imagine if The Hunger Games started differently. What if the first chapter was an ordinary day at school for Katniss, followed by time at home with her family, and hanging out with Gale. Suzanne Collins could've started there and gone into greater detail about Katniss' troubled relationship with her mom, given us more history on the District, how life in The Seam works, etc. She could've had the Reaping happen in chapter 3. By then we might be expecting the book to be a family drama or something else completely unrelated to a reality show about teens fighting to the death. If Collins had started her book this way, she probably would've lost a lot of readers. I know I would've been flipping back to the cover over and over again, wondering when these supposedly awesome Hunger Games were going to start. I probably would've put the book down before the action started and picked up something else.
The first chapter is the last chapter in disguise.
- Richard Peck
Richard Peck says that when he finishes his first draft, he always throws out the first chapter without reading it and writes a new one.
I thought about why it is that the first chapter is usually the one that needs the most work and I think I figured out at least part of why this is true for me.
Usually, at the beginning of a story I am bursting with ideas and information. I know my main character is this
Excellent post, Valerie!
Funny, I'm about 3 chapters away from finishing my first draft, and I was considering going back and rewriting my first chapter without looking at it after that. Now I'll definitely do it.
Great post! I am so that writer with Chapter 1 being the info dump. I never thought of it as being "notes" to myself, though. What a great way to put it:)
This is excellent. I also loved how you organized it - persuasive argument, examples, instructions.
Great post - and really good points about the first chapter. Thanks.
Thanks for the blog, I took a class in the SSA Writer's Conference that said the same thing. I took the advice and rewrote my chapter 1 before sending out the requested pages from the conference. Now, I'm terrified I put too much. Ah shucks, I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't.
I especially like this advice.
"Ask people to read the first chapter by itself. What do they think the book is about? What are they expecting to happen? Do they want to keep reading?"
Great post! :)
What a great post Valerie! Thank you. I need to go back and examine my first chapter.
Great job, Valerie!
~Aimee
This is a GREAT post, Valerie.
It's something I've been thinking about a lot this year, and I've come to realize it's always my first three chapters that need to be rewritten.
Wonderful advice as always Nathan; you're my hero!
Amazing post Valerie. I have inadvertently thrown out my whole first chapter before, but never thought of doing it intentionally. This is fantastic advice.
Sorry Nathan, I don't miss you at all with great posts like this one, ha ha.
Thanks for all the kind comments! I'm so glad this post was helpful!
This is really great advice! Enjoyed this Blog post very much.
Thanks for a fascinating post! Great timing, too, as we are going to be talking beginnings on my writing Tweetchat, today (#Storycraft)
In Second year of Uni, I realized that if I wrote my (non-fiction, of course) essays straight through and then just swapped my original beginning and end I always got better marks. I think it was for the same reasons you outline here. A natural 'beginning' is to think about all the things we're going to 'prove and 'explain' each one a little but by the end of writing about it, we have it down and it comes out far more succinctly. I hadn't thought about how this same concept applies to fiction, thanks for the push toward insight.
erica and christy: good luck! I hope today is the day too!
Stephanie Perkins: it's a painful realization but I think it's so much easier to see what you don't need at the beginning once you get to the end. If I'm honest with myself it's probably closer to the first 3 chapters for me too!
Danielle (@Danisidhe): That is SO interesting about non-fiction papers. It makes a lot of sense too. I wish I'd figured that out in school!
This is awesome! Thanks so much!!
This is a really terrific post. Thanks so much!
Valerie, thank you so much for this. It is very helpful.
When I was writing up my medical PhD thesis my uni prof advised that the introduction should be the last thing written. Now as I write my first novel (and as much as I realise that creative the writing has to be just that) there is something of a formula that has to exist to make it work. Your post has helped me to understand why the first chapter is important and must include the points you outline.
Thanks again,
Mervat.
Great post, Valerie. I love the advice about getting people who don't know what the book is about to read the first chapter and give you feedback. :D
Great post!
Valerie, I'm wondering is there an ideal length for a first chapter? I've seen them anywhere from 7 to 50 pages long.
But after reading your post, I'm thinking maybe I should take my first three chapters (about 10 pages each) and combine them into one to achieve the "what's the book about" goal you're describing.
Or, maybe, just start over! LOL!
This post is a true keeper to peruse and refer to. You've captured the essence of why a first chapter is so important. Thank you Valerie.
Useful and well put.
This is a fantastic post! Especially since I'm writing my first chapter -- again. ;)
LaylaF: I don't think it's so much about length as it is about getting the job done. If your first ten pages have tension, pose a question that readers look forward to having answered, show your hook, or are otherwise engaging, that's all you need. That's "what the book's about" in the most basic sense. Like, the "vibe" rather than the tiny details. If that makes sense. I would say in general shorter is better because it gives a feeling of momentum. Once the reader moves on to chapter two they feel more invested, like they're getting into the book.
This is great! Incredibly helpful! Not to mention it makes me feel better about my first chapter!
I think you posted this blog just for me! Thank you!
I know it's already been said but it's worth repeating - great post! I think everything you said was so true and right, and using Hunger Games as an example was perfect!
Thanks so much! I will never look at writing a first chapter the same way again!
So many great pointers! Thanks and great post.
Totally insightful. I never considered that the first chapter should give insight into the main conflict of the book, but now that I think about it it almost seems obvious. I'm going to apply this info to my first chapter asap!
Thank you, Valerie. Many great ideas here. I've always wanted to think, though, what if one tried to make their first draft work? What if this first rush of inspiration was the right one, but was so different to the style that normally worked that it was difficult to make work. I mean this in the sense of a serendipitous mistake that results in discovery of a new literary style....not the actual story content. Or maybe that could work, too. Not sure.
I enjoyed reading your post as it was so well-organised and thought out. And it was also very timely as I started a new novel a few weeks ago. I take your point of not mis-leading the reader with a first chapter that seems to be heading in one direction but the rest of the novel covers different ground. This seems to be what has happened in my new work. The first three chapters focused on an interesting character based on someone I actually know. I've been adding to the story each time I've had contact. The story unfolds as it happens, kind of thing. But as this person hasn't been in touch for a few days, and I've been impatient to move forward, the story has evolved into philosophical and religious discussions. But I don't want to make anything up as this lady is so unique. . .nothing can compare to the original.
Thanks, again, for a great post, Valerie :)
Thanks, Valerie! Very helpful info. Now, if only I could find the time to start that darn revision and apply some of this newfound knowledge... Any tips on how to clone myself - or would I just have even MORE work to preoccupy me?
A really useful post! Thanks. I visited your sites too, and really enjoyed the collaborative story. Scary. Want to know what happens next!
Wow. You're a great writer and from "The All-Important First Chapter," I learned a lot. Which reinforced how much I need to learn.
Thank you!
Sheila Cull
Thanks for answering my question Valerie, great advice. And, as everyone else has said, it's so succinct and well organized, easy to understand.
I now have a new perspective and a higher level of appreciation for the first chapter.
Awesome post, Valerie! I think I nailed my first chapter after 20+ attempts. I needed this 5 years ago. Love your work, Simon.
Ah, the first chapter... I have to be a bit of a masochist to get the first chapter right.
This is what I need right now! The comparison to Hunger Games is very helpful too. Thanks.
Valerie,
Outstanding post! I went through this excerise over the weekend. I normally write the whole book out and then go back and layer.
Last week I decided to change the process and take each chapter and make sure it builds on the one before it. I write horror erotica.
So I went back and started all over on Chapter One. Everything you said rang true over the weekend. How much do I show? Get the tension in there without giving away too much?
I'm shooting it off to my beta reader and will use those questions you posted.
Thanks so much!
I have to wonder how much sense of the Harry Potter series you get from chapter 1 of the first book. You get a lot of the mystery and feel of the book. But perhaps not a layout of the story like many chapter 1 guidelines would imply. It's one of the problems with being too formulaic. It strips a lot of the mystery of the novel and richness of the characters. Of course, if trying to start out with the sure thing rather than pushing the bounds, formulaic can be quite comforting.
Your comments about notes making up a lot of the first chapter seem to be true for me. I had to rewrite the beginning of the novel I've just finished.
I like having some sort of map at the beginning, to keep to the story arc. I agree that the first chapter is very important, perhaps more so in commercial or genre fiction.
Enjoyed your post, Valerie.
Very helpful info. I love both the authors you used in your examples. I'm working on rewriting my first chapter now so this is particularly helpful for me.
THis is a very inspiring post- Chapter One as a promise to the reader is a great ideal to emulate
Thank you for this. I have heard it before, but never put in a way that makes so much sense to me. I'm going to look at my first chapter with fresh eyes tonight.
First chapters are important because they are the first impression agents and editors get of your work. These are busy people, they are culling a huge volume of submissions, and they're looking for an excuse to stop reading yours. From this fact, various myths about first chapters emerge.
For example, the idea that one must start with (or in the middle of) an action sequence is pervasive and wrong. It's a mutation of the adage that something must happen in those first pages (as opposed to back-story, world-building and other exposition).
Similarly, the idea that a first chapter can or should be markedly better-written or paced than the rest of the book is a canard. Every chapter should be your best work. Revising your first chapter should require much less time than making sure your middle section doesn't drag.
The hardest aspects of writing a novel are sustaining tension over an extended narrative, transitioning between plot-points, and providing necessary information and character development without bogging down in exposition. Compared to these challenges, first chapters are relatively easy.
The purpose of a first chapter is generally to introduce a primary character and a problem that will drive the plot. So, if you know who and what your book is about, the first chapter is halfway written.
Introducing protagonists is easier than introducing secondary characters, since you have much less time and space to spend developing the secondaries, and they still need to seem three-dimensional. And introducing an initial motivating problem is much simpler than handling complications and twists later on.
The reason agents feel comfortable rejecting you based on a first chapter is because a flawed first chapter indicates flawed writing throughout. But just because those first pages can knock you out, it doesn't mean they can get you in. If you stick a polished first chapter on a flawed manuscript, that's not going to get you an agent. Your narrative should be polished and engaging throughout.
I can't tell you how timely this is- After attending a writer's conference last month all I took away from every single speaker and class session was the notion pounded into our heads, that not only the 1st chapter - but the first 3 pages-will make or break you.
Great post. Richard Peck is amazing, I saw him speak at the Bologna SCBWI Symposium. The best advice I every got was start the story where there is a change in the main character's life.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/9/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Staying Sane While Writing, How to Find a Literary Agent, guest blog, Add a tag
By Brodi Ashton
In 2008, with my first finished manuscript in hand, I was ready to query. To find that special someone who would take my story to the top. You know, to find THE ONE.
My sister-in-law (also a writer) devised a contest: first person to reach 100 rejections wins. We crafted our queries, did our research, and by the end of four months I won the race. I’d received 100 rejections. But I also won an agent. Everything’s downhill from there, right?
The agent submitted my book and after three months, we had 2 positive rejections (you know, the kind where they’re all, “I like it, but how would I sell it?”) and about 7 no-responses. Not the reaction we had expected.
Meanwhile, I wasn’t going to be one of those writers who put all of her flowers in one bouquet. I decided to write another book, so that when we had exhausted all possible avenues for book #1, I’d have something ready to go. My 13-year old niece read Book #2 in 24 hours; that had to be a good sign, right? (side note: warranted use of semi-colon, check.)
With your first book, you’re guaranteed the agent loves it, because he/she offered representation on it. But with your second, you never know. I gave my agent book #2 in January 2010. Three and a half months later, he was “still reading.”
Just like a clueless girlfriend, I made excuses for him. So what if my niece had taken 24 hours to read it? She’s really fast. So what if this second book was 20,000 words shorter than my first? I probably used bigger words. The story makes the reader want to savor it, not finish it. He probably doesn’t want it to end. (Agreed, that was the stupidest excuse.)
Determined to be proactive, I sent him a list of editors who had mentioned on blogs that they were looking for my type of book.
He responded with a resounding, “Um, let’s talk on the phone.”
That did not sound good. I’m sure you all know how frakkin’ hard it is to get an agent in the first place. My family and friends knew. Their advice before the dreaded phone call was, “Say what you have to say to keep him.”
But here’s what only a phone call could show: the passion was gone. He liked book #2 okay, but he didn’t love it. It was polished, but it wouldn’t make a splash. It didn’t need that much work as far as revisions went, but he probably couldn’t get to it for a few months. Maybe after the holidays. (That would’ve been 9 months later).
So, he wasn’t going to dump me. I could’ve kept him. But one thing was perfectly clear: there was no way he would be able to muster the passion necessary to make a sale, especially a debut sale, especially in today’s tight market. It wasn’t his fault. This business is subjective.
I knew we couldn’t go on like that. But was I really ready to dive into the query pool again? Could I face a hundred new rejections? Would I really be stupid enough to leave an agent? LEAVE an agent?
But the passion was gone. There was no way around it. He just wasn’t that into me anymore. As our phone conversation started wrapping up, I blurted out that this wasn’t going to work. He didn’t put up a fight, and we parted ways amicably.
I started querying the next day. (Yeah, I had a query written. I’m sort of a cup-half-empty type person.) Within a month, I had nine offers from wonderful agents who were passionate about book #2. And three weeks ago, I sold my debut trilogy to Balzer and Bray, Harper Collins in a pre-empt, after 48 hours on submission. All of this happened five months before my first agent would’ve even submitted it.
I don’t blame agent #1 for not loving my book, just as I don’t blame my high school boyfriend, who fell in love with someone else right before the Christmas Dance. (I totally blame the other girl, though, but I digress).
Point is, even though it hurts, you can’t help
First of all, congratulations on the sale!
Thank you for this post. It's refreshing to know I'm not the only one who made excuses for an agent, passed along names of editors, played the waiting game, etc. I recently split with mine and am now armed with the knowledge that this is a relationship and should be treated as such.
How very brave of you to leave an agent who wasn't right for you.
I'm glad it was the right decision and it all worked out so well.
This is a fantastic post. I enjoy learning about writers processes.
Particularly, I'd like to know how many years of writing novels it took (or how many novels) before knowing you had the "one" that would even compell you to seek an agent.
Is it ever too late? Is it ever too late to have hope when you are older, anchored by a disliked job, and only starting and sifting through writing pieces/ideas?
Thanks, y'all!
Anon @10:20- I don't think it's ever too late. The book I sold was nowhere near my first book. That fist book is shoved in a drawer somewhere.
I didn't have very many more novels before I found "The One" (Which itself is sort of a crap shoot), mostly because I found it so difficult just to finish a darn book!
I do have plenty of false starts...
Wow! I never thought about what happens AFTER one gets an agent and writes the second book. Your story inspires me, especially being a former broadcast journalist myself. Way to find the right home for your book and CONGRATS on the publishing contract!!
Great post! I was hoping that this would be one of the winners.
Good for you, girl!!!
Don't stick around if it doesn't feel right. And congrats on your sale!
Thank you, I needed this encouragement so much. I just parted ways with my agent and am on the hunt again. Admitting things aren't working out between you and an agent is not an easy thing to do.
No way! I JUST finished up this conversation with a friend - except he and I were talking about romantic relationships (ala "If You're Gone" by Matchbox 20). I never thought about how that could apply to the agent/writer relationship, but it totally does! Gotta let 'em go when they're just not feeling it. You'll both be better off. And I'm so happy for you, Brodi, that it all worked out so well for you. :)
Thanks for sharing this wonderful post, Nathan.
Brodi - congratulations on your sale! That's wonderful. :)
I'm glad you parted ways with your first agent. He was sending you signals that he didn't want to work with you (I think once your first book didn't sell), and I think it's impressive that you had enough confidence in yourself to move quickly. Good for you!
Good luck with your debut!
I don't understand. Is this a relationship story, or a business story? An agent's job, as I've come to understand, is to help sell the book and get the best possible deal out of it. It sounds to me that he didn't want to do his job.
Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds really easy, painless, but I'm willing to bet it was a little harder than that in real life. Good job staring the problem down and getting on with your life. Congrats on your book deal!
Congratulations, Brodi!
What a great (and inspiring) post :)
Brodi,
Thank you for this post. This sounds crazy, but it's actually encouraging to know that you had to go through 100 rejections and two agents before you could get a book published. But you preservered and you made it!!
Congratulations, you are an inspiration to us all and I can't wait to read your book.
BTW, do you have a blog by which we could follow your experiences and thoughts as you progress through this crazy process?
What a refreshing and inspiring post! I really enjoyed reading it and did wonder what would happen if the agent didn't like the following books. I am no where near 100 so I better get sending!
Wow, this happened to me. Almost exactly. (Meaning I haven't sold...yet.)
Good for you,for not giving up on yourself and jumping right back into the fray. It 's a great story.
Kelly- you're right- it most definitely wasn't easy or painless. Quite the opposite, especially when you have no idea how it's going to possibly be okay that you're agentless again.
But if I expanded on just how painful it was, this would be a very long post.
Layla- I do have a blog, where I post regularly: www.brodiashton.blogspot.com
This SPOKE to me. Except for the fact that I'm still clinging to my agent (like a desperate writer hanging from a crumbling cliff) and I don't have your happy ending (new agent, offer of publication), I could have written this post. My agent loved my "first" book (I have several manuscripts gathering virtual dust, too), but after she couldn't sell it, took forever "still reading" my second one. Then she unenthusiastically wondered if I might completely rewrite it? I said no, but I've got a great idea for another one! To which she replied, "send me chapters and an outline in case I'm not interested." The love is gone! :o(
Hi Brodi,
Congrats on your sale. It sounds like a crazy ride, but you made the right decision to believe in your book. While I'm not where you are yet, I will certainly keep your story in mind -- that passion from your agent is a must.
Thanks so much for sharing!
Congrats Brodi! That had a much better ending than I anticipated. I'm thrilled things worked out so great for you! Sometimes the hard decision is the right one. Good for you for following your gut.
Brodi, breaking up with your agent took a lot of guts and I'm impressed. I'm so glad you found "the one," and that you're still friendly with your ex. Congratulations on the sale!
I just wanted to say thanks for that post! I always think that finding an agent is a lot like dating, but I had never thought about 'breaking up with an agent.'
I also loved the 100 rejections part! That was so encouraging to read, because it's easy to think that if you get that many no's you will never get a yes, but you did!
Great post and good luck with your book that just got picked up!
Anonymous 11.05 AM, it's both, a relationship story AND a business story. They are inseparable in all businesses. The romance metaphor is much used by publishing commenters, and it seems appropriate. If I were an agent I would be more upfront in such situations, but I'm not an agent.
If your book is anything like this post (and I'd be willing to bet that it is...), I am SO pre-ordering! LOL You have a very refreshing and youthful voice that automatically drew my attention. Congrats on the sale!
Sorry, had some technical difficulties
What I had said was that I could have written this blog. I had a very similar experience. I got an agent, who submitted my book to about twelve publishers. All of them turned us down, though most of them were "good" rejections, saying that it had more to do with the market than the book. One even said she'd like to see more work.
My agent asked for book 2, which I'd been working on. I sent it to her when I finished it. And waited. After a few months, I e-mailed her and she told me to hang in there, she hadn't finished reading yet. I waited a few more months, e-mailed again and she said, "well, I'm having a hard time finishing it" Yikes! I e-mailed back and suggested that maybe I should look for someone else to represent the book. And she said "Yes, that's a good idea" Yikes again.
It's heartening to know that your story has a happy ending. I'm still looking for Mr/Ms right who will love my work and be near as passionate about it as I am.
Wow... and here I am feeling like all my confidence is drained after 18 rejections. I haven't queried since the last one, about two months ago. I'm thinking I should suck it up and get back on the horse... because I happen to think my book rocks, and this story makes think someone out there might eventually feel the same!
Wise post.
I think saying the writing business is subjective is just saying there's a lot of "intuition" or gut decisions involved in making things work. I'm glad you were brave enough to follow yours. :D
Brodi - wow, I read some of your blog and how interesting. I wish I could "chat" with you. I'm struggling with even beginning. I have no background in writing at all, just a hope that some effort + faith + persistence will lead the way.
My trouble is that I have never fully completed anything. And I have no idea what my true voice is. I find outlines impossible. But when the words strike, I can write pages (or even 30,000+ words) and then it dies. Nothing. I'm trying to find key "organization" tips and ways to bring out my ideas so I don't spend my time in from the blank screen staring at a speck on the wall. You are very inspiring.
Anon 12:33- 18 rejections is nothing!
And in case anyone was wondering if I was rounding up, I wasn't. I reached just over 100 rejections.
It was sort of like a game. A masochistic game.
Congratulations, Brodi - your post alone had enough edge of the seat action to keep me reading; your book must be ace! What a decision to have to make - but make it you did. A very empowering post. Thanks.
Good story. I cried, I cried, I laughed, I cried. . .
Congratulations on finding that light at the end of the tunnel! I wish you the best of success!
Great post. Looking back, are you glad you never sold the other book because you feel like this will be a stronger debut? Do you still hope to eventually publish it?
Wow, way to persevere, and, a success story to top it off! But, you hit the nail on the head - the subjective nature of the art implies that not everybody is going to be jazzed by a work.
Alyosha- I definitely feel like this was the stronger debut, but that might be because the first one was rejected!
Hopefully someday, we'll be able to submit it again. For now, it's off even the backburner, and marinating in the fridge.
You just can't feel bad about it. I walked into an agent with a novel with four publishing offers but she just wasn't in love.
What can you do? Move on.
Congrats on your sale. :)
I find myself furious about this, and it's got nothing to do with me!
As he had already entered into contract to represent you, he should have told you in a timely fashion if he wasn't interested in your latest work. He had an obligation to give you his best efforts, and he didn't even try.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Brodi, you sought passion in your agent, and you demonstrated courage in stepping out to find it. Your story is well-told, and I've placed a link to it in my free resources. Thanks.
Anonymous at 10:20 am: I sold the fourth novel I wrote; the average seems to be to sell the third or fourth novel that one writes. However, some people write many more than that before making a first sale. As for is it ever too late: that depends on whether you're still enjoying the writing. There's never a time when the publishers send goons to come and take your computer away from you :).
Brodi, Congrats on the sale, and on getting a new agent.
Your first guy may not've been that into you, but he doesn't sound like that great an agent. My last book got rejected by everyone, but my agent certainly got responses from everyone. If they didn't respond on their own, she nagged 'em till they did. That's what agents are for, on account us writers are too shy to follow editors down the street and tackle them.
Form rejections and no-responses, hell, we can get those on our own :).
Anonymous at 1:06 pm-- google the Ingermanson Snowflake. I think you may find it helpful.
Thank you for this awesome post, Brodi. It's such a great description of reality: even when things go wrong, it often opens up the opportunity for something new to go right. Best of luck with your series and congrats on the sale!!
Br-r-r-rilliant post! Thank you, Brodi! Still chuckling. And thanks for the great insights on agents. I'm glad you've met your soul agent now. Inspired by your post, could a new reality TV show spring forth with shades of The Bachelor and overtones of The Rejectionist?
Brodi -
As someone who is currently searching for an agent, I found your story bittersweet and a little frightening.
I commend you for your bravery to take such a big step - some might say backwards. Obviously, it was the right choice.
Congrats on the sale and a very insightful post.
Great post Brodi!
How brave of you to follow your gut instinct and part ways when you'd worked so hard to get there. And you're right . . . if they don't love it . . . Very happy it worked out for you. Congrats on the sale!
Thanks for the comments y'all.
Wendy- I think that's a great idea. Now, who do we know in Hollywood? And will it involve mud-wrestling? (Don't all the good reality shows involve mud-wrestling?)
Congratulations, Brodi! What a wonderful post.
Thank you for sharing your journey. That took some guts to leave your first agent. Your post sheds light not only about the importance of passion for a project (for the agent and writer) but also the subjectivity of the business. I won't take those rejections to heart.
I appreciate this post so much, although it made me a little sick to my stomach, because I think I'm in the same situation - an agent who really doesn't want to read the "revised version." At least I'm going to be a little better prepared for bad news, and hopeful for some good news someday.
Awesome post - thanks for the inspiration and the chuckle.
And CONGRATS!!
This was an awesome post! And I am so happy to hear you sold it!! Congrats!! Yay.
You so inspired me. Thanks. (And I thought I had it bad with 22 rejections , three partials, and a full...)
But HOW do you survive 100????
EVERY time I put my WIP in front of my critique group, I die a thousand deaths. I question myself over and over. And then, I love them so much, because everything they point out makes me a better re-writer.
I continue to envision landing an agent as the culmination of the process, equating it with the long-awaited prize. In fact, it is the first step of many towards publishing my first book. Your blog was both insightful and thought-provoking. Thank you so much for sharing. And congrats on your success!
Anon @6:49- I love to use my colossal failures to inspire people! Seriously.
Three partials and a full sounds- like you're doing just fine. :) Maybe you won't have to hit 100.
Kathleen- I used to think of getting an agent as having the ball on 1st and goal on the football field. Now I think that getting an agent just means your ON the football field, and the game hasn't even started.
Such a great post! I love the perspective on not putting all your flowers in one bouquet. You're a funny girl Brodi Ashton. I'm so thrilled for you and your new book!
I love this post - thanks for sharing!
Brodi,
Loved your post. It's truly encouraging. And you kept your sense of humor throughout. I have to admire your guts and confidence to stand by your work. Any time I get discouraged, I'm going to come back to this post. I'm also not going to take those rejection letters personally. Thanks.
Congrats and what an awesome guest blog!!!
Great post!
I had something similar happen to me. Only it took two more books for me to find a new agent and we haven't sold yet (but I digress).
Anyway, leaving my first agent was both one of the hardest and best decisions I've ever made.
As I sit here and look at my list of agents to query to, I wonder how it is possible to have enough agents to query to get over 100 rejections. I suppose it has something to do with genre. I'm having a heck of a time finding fantasy agents. I'm only on two rejections so far...waiting for the third and fourth...
awesome post though.
Exact thing happened to me, practically word for word.
Great post.
Congratulations, Brodi!
And if it's any consolation, I know the feeling of passion's loss.
My first agent took me on because he liked a short story I'd written and published in a high school collection. He encouraged me to write my first novel, suggesting I was the sort of young, and hopefully raw talent that could go far in writing.
He sent that first novel, a Young Adult novel written by a then-Young Adult,to Thomas Crowell and Knopf. And when they rejected it, he kept encouraging me and sending it. And encouraged me to write another.
So, I wrote another, in a few years. Similar experience. "Don't give up!" was basically his message.
I wrote maybe four novels with his encouragement. Then he went and died on me, in 1987.
I kept writing. His widow took over his agency, and for a couple years kept up his encouragement until, as she said, she needed to pare the agency down, essentially to writers who were already bringing in money.
I completely understood. Then, there I was, another manuscript written, which she had loved, in search of an agent. A friend, a publisher who actually loved my manuscript but couldn't get anyone to publish it, including her own company, recommended a couple agents she'd worked with.
The second one, who wasn't that busy at the time, read it and took me on.
About 10 years, four manuscripts, and a stint living overseas later, I realized someone had to say what we both knew to be true: as you said, she just wasn't that into me. We parted ways just as I found a new publisher extremely positive and interested in that by then 10-year-old manuscript, so interested he recommended some revisions which made sense to me and I manged to accomplish.
Then, the once small and barely locally known publisher got a writer who put him on the map. I sent another manuscript, and he sent the first one, and the next, back.
I no longer try to write a novel a year. And I hate writing queries, because I was spoiled at such a young age by such a great encouraging agent.
It is tough dumping someone--anyone, but especially someone who you feel sort of accepted your initial overture and you feel you can't really get much farther without.
But you either sell your work, or you don't. And you either work and hope or try for a sale, or you decide it's too draining, economically or emotionally.
But by then, I'm guessing, you'll still write another manuscript, like me, eventually.
And let me tell your friend, in my 30+ years of experiences like this, 100 rejections is just a good start...:)
Congratulations, Brodi!
And if it's any consolation, I know the feeling of passion's loss.
My first agent took me on because he liked a short story I'd written and published in a high school collection. He encouraged me to write my first novel, suggesting I was the sort of young, and hopefully raw talent that could go far in writing.
He sent that first novel, a Young Adult novel written by a then-Young Adult,to Thomas Crowell and Knopf. And when they rejected it, he kept encouraging me and sending it. And encouraged me to write another.
So, I wrote another, in a few years. Similar experience. "Don't give up!" was basically his message.
I wrote maybe four novels with his encouragement. Then he went and died on me, in 1987.
I kept writing. His widow took over his agency, and for a couple years kept up his encouragement until, as she said, she needed to pare the agency down, essentially to writers who were already bringing in money.
I completely understood. Then, there I was, another manuscript written, which she had loved, in search of an agent. A friend, a publisher who actually loved my manuscript but couldn't get anyone to publish it, including her own company, recommended a couple agents she'd worked with.
The second one, who wasn't that busy at the time, read it and took me on.
About 10 years, four manuscripts, and a stint living overseas later, I realized someone had to say what we both knew to be true: as you said, she just wasn't that into me. We parted ways just as I found a new publisher extremely positive and interested in that by then 10-year-old manuscript, so interested he recommended some revisions which made sense to me and I manged to accomplish.
Then, the once small and barely locally known publisher got a writer who put him on the map. I sent another manuscript, and he sent the first one, and the next, back.
I no longer try to write a novel a year. And I hate writing queries, because I was spoiled at such a young age by such a great encouraging agent.
It is tough dumping someone--anyone, but especially someone who you feel sort of accepted your initial overture and you feel you can't really get much farther without.
But you--or they--either sell your work, or don't. And you either work and hope or try for a sale, or you decide it's too draining, economically or emotionally.
But by then, I'm guessing, you'll still write another manuscript, like me, eventually.
And let me tell your friend, 100 rejections is just a good start...:)
But I'm glad you found the right one and "clicked" with a publisher...and hope the same for us all.
Congratulations Brodi Ashton. That piece was good reading. You deserved to win a slot.
Sheila Cull
Nice.
For you that is on the sale of your book.
Interesting that this parallels certain things in the day-to-day activities that is life (like getting a new job that eventually becomes not a good fit)
It's good to hear that you were able to handle the breakup with as much tact and courtesy as possible.
I'm a sucker for a happy ending - congrats! This made me smile.
Congratulations, Brodi, and thanks for sharing!
I agree with a comment by The Lemonade Stand. (That was a surreal sentence.) It does seem like it would be difficult to even find one hundred agents to submit to in some genres.
What an awesome post! I was up to 133 rejections and I just signed with an agent this past week. She loved my book and seems very passionate which I am very happy about. She's already asked for my second book but if she doesn't love that one, I won't take it personally.
You're awesome Brodi - and congrats again on the book deal and now for guesting on Nathan's blog. You're are so brave and impulsive to part ways with the first agent - I don't know that I would have done it, but you're right - they should feel passionate about your work.
Brodi! Fancy meeting you here! Excellent post. Now get back to our Scrabble game!
Thanks again for all the nice comments! I admit to being a little scared about being so exposed...
Anica and The Lemonade Stand (That totally sounds like a band name)-
I think it's a genre thing. Currently, agentquery.com (which is the site I used when querying) lists 316 agents who handle YA. I know YA is more encompassing than other genres, but it wasn't hard for me to find 100.
Jody- I'm back to the Scrabble game. No fair starting out with "anemone" though! Give me a chance, won't ya?
Excellent writ-up on a touchy subject. I was hoping this would get picked.
Congratulations on the sale of your book, Brodi! It sounds like you made the right decision to part ways with your previous agent, although I imagine it must have been a very difficult decision at the time.
I just reread your post, and realized that you sold not just one book (which would have been fantastic in and of itself), but a TRILOGY of books. Your post is so inspiring. HUGE CONGRATULATIONS on the sale of your trilogy!
Brodi, thanks for the post. It really was quite inspiring. I suppose I would consider mine YA as well as fantasy. So I'm going to go give that website a go. So far I've just gone through the Writer's Market. I'm just getting started in the querying. So thanks for mentioning that website. (Mentally noting new resource...)
So what's a pre-empt? Pardon my newbiness.
My favorite entry, I'm so happy it was chosen.
To all the commenters whose agents couldn't sell their first book, take heart in remembering that last year (09) was the worst in publishing since the Great Depression. Don't give up.
Anon- "pre-empt" means they made a good enough offer to take it off the table for all the other publishers who have the manuscript. (In my little knowledge of the subject)
Other Anon- I totally agree. 09 was a horrific year for potential debut authors.
This post's even prettier against the full-on orange backdrop! And it ain't too shabby with its deluge of great comments. Congrats, Brodi - on writing a post that really speaks to everyone!
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/8/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: This Week in Publishing, Jonathan Franzen, Malcolm Gladwell, Publishing Economics, Harry Potter, Twilight, Add a tag
Tento týden v publikování...
First off, thank you so much to everyone who entered the Guest Blog Contest Festival Event! There were actually so many spectacular entries that I decided to expand the number of contest winning slots. That's right folks, this blog is going seven days a week. Well. At least until I get back. So! Please come back tomorrow for the first guest blog post! I have notified the winners, but shant reveal them so as to preserve the surprise.
Also, there will be no Page Critique Friday this week or next as I'm out of the office. I'll be back on the 19th, enjoy the guest posts in the meanwhile.
Now then. Publishing news!
The biggest literary prize of them all, which you may know better as the Nobel Prize in Literature, was awarded to Peruvian Mario Vargas Llosa for "his cartography of structures of power and his trenchant images of the individual's resistance, revolt and defeat." He is the first South American to win the award since Gabriel Garcia Marquez in 1982. The US of A remains shut out since Toni Morrison's win in 1993.
In possibly just as big news, Jonathan Franzen had a tough week in the United Kingdom. First he discovered during a reading that the books that were printed were from an earlier draft and contained errors (HarperUK issued an apology). Then his glasses were stolen from his face. No. Really. Not joking. The perp was later caught, and Franzen didn't press charges. Don't miss Patrick Neylan's great roundup from the Guest Blog Contest.
The New York Post caught up with the owner of two of the most famous hands in the world: the hand model from the TWILIGHT COVER. (via GalleyCat)
In publishing economics news, the Wall Street Journal took a look at some of the factors behind declining advances in the publishing industry and their effect on literary fiction in particular. And a used book salesman who travels around scanning barcodes and trying to find profitable books talked about his profession and the unease and detachment he feels about his line of work.
And Malcolm Gladwell made some waves last week when he argued that social media is not an effective tool for social change. Writing for the New York Book Bench, Rollo Romig used Gladwell's article as a jumping off point to consider what social media and social change do have in common: narratives. And writing for Change O
Wouldn't mind going to that park, but don't forget the ice cream.
I finished reading Franzen’s novel, FREEDOM, this past week. The man is a genius. How he can write so many separate characters in so many different stages of their life with such exquisite detail and incredible insight, as if he had lived through each and every stage, is mind-boggling. (Of course, most of the characters are dysfunctional and less than admirable, but they provide a wealth of insight into the culture within which they live.) My first reaction after completing the book: to feel like a complete and utter failure at writing compared to Franzen. I also felt deeply moved by Franzen’s picture of U.S. culture and why it is what it is right now – a kind of escapism to avoid some very deep and frightening issues for which everyone wants to devour entertainments in order to block out reality. And, as though to prove Franzen right, the literary world joined in, commenting more on his stolen glasses, his brouhaha with Oprah, and his personality than on what he had to say. La la la, scary information, don’t want to hear it. Unfortunately, I joined in, too. Couldn’t resist the Franzen glasses situation. Started sending out tweets about how maybe he writes through magic glasses, and if a writer just had those magic glasses, they could write with the same skill level as Franzen. I have taken somewhat to heart Franzen’s approach to writing by trying to stay off the Internet during writing sessions, and I did get a lot more done in a much more serious tone of writing than ever before.
That was a really interesting article in the Wall Street Journal. I love literary books, and recently have discovered some incredible literary books published through small indie press. I’m planning to buy the novel SLEIGHT talked about in the article. I read TINKERS by Paul Harding, the novel that received a boatload of rejections, then was published by an indie press and went on to win the Pulitzer Prize last year. It was a beautifully written, very moving novel. I loved every minute of reading it. As a reader, I love good literary fiction, and will purchase it no matter who publishes it.
Holy crap, someone mentioned Elsevier?! When I say I used to work for them, the first response I almost always get is "Who?"
Oooops, TINKERS won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction this year, not last year.
Have a great week!
Have a great time in Eastern Europe NB!
Marilyn, I really liked your commentary on Franzen's book.
Nathan - I'm so glad you're off having fun. I hope you have a lovely, refreshing, renewing wonderful time.
But I will certainly miss having you around the blogosphere!
But I will totally enjoy the guest posts - I guess there will be eleven (!) of them. How fun to have weekend posts - this is wonderful for everyone.
I also want to say YAY for J.T.! That was a very funny and clever comment. Nice work, Mr. Shea.
A couple links stood out for me. First, I think it's wonderful that a Peruvian won the Nobel Prize. Way overdue.
In terms of the Franzen eyeglasses thing. Yes. Soon all famous authors will be dealing with the paparazzi and obsessive fandom. Matter of time. Utterly serious.
The Wall Street Journal Article was both sensational and inaccurate. Boy, e-books really must be making a splash if the Wall Street Journal is resorting to anti-e-book propaganda, leaving out a few relevant facts, for example that it's the publisher's (heavily critiqued) decision to keep e-book royalty rates low, and that royalty rates for e-self-publishing are huge. Propaganda.
Gladwell is wrong, wrong, wrong. Sorry, but he is. Social media is absolutely the best thing that ever happened for activism in the history of the world. Look at all the recent activity around the book about rape that was supposedly 'soft porn.' Powerful voices rose against this.
Great Harry Potter site!
congrats again to J.T.! Looking forward to the guest posts. :)
Have a wonderful vacation, Nathan!
Jurassic Park? What's a Jurassic Park? Google...
Who's this Michael Crichton? I've been pirated! Years ago! Time-travel, obviously.
Oh, he's dead. But he wrote a book about pirates! Which was published posthumously.
I'm haunted by Time-Traveling Pirate Ghost-Writer! A SEVEN FOOT TALL Time-Traveling Pirate Ghost-Writer!
Seriously, Michael Crichton was great, not just tall. He drew his characters broadly and briefly, making them cool to the verge of coldness at times, but that seemed to suit his fast-moving economical tales. He made much of his movie of his own novel THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY in Ireland, in and around Cork, where I live. I will be very interested to see what Steven Spielberg makes of PIRATE LATITUDES.
Mr. Shea, Mira? If we're going to run Barnes & Noble together, just call me John. And yes, both the WSJ and Gladwell articles oversimplify things, to say the least.
Enjoy the Czech waters, Nathan! Though I might give the vodka enemas a miss...
Mají skvělý týden!
Have a great time, Nathan! In the meantime, I'll be looking forward to tomorrow (and the day after that, and the day after that...).
If the Twilight hands lady wants to make it as an actor, I don't think an article on how she carries an apple in her purse to prove that it was her will do it. Auditioning, maybe, but not going around convincing strangers of the Importance of her Hands in the Twiverse.
I'm pleased about the Nobel award. That's a great piece of news.
And congrats, J.T!
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/7/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Life of a Writer, Staying Sane While Writing, Add a tag
Are there really 15,000+ people a year querying agents? Are there really that many novels and memoirs and self-help books and alien encounters of the dubious kind? There are really that many people writing books? Really?
There's only one way to answer this question: yes, there are. There really are.
But there's a Part II to the answer, which is, as Kristin Nelson recently wrote: don't worry about those other books out there.
It's so tempting to feel as if your books is in competition with all of those other books on submission, not to mention the ones coming out by already-popular authors, and to be bogged down by the sheer impossible odds of it all. It's temping to want someone else's success story to be yours and to measure whatever success you've achieved against someone who has "made it."
Don't do it. The only person you're in competition with is yourself. You can't control how many people are out there, how many queries agents are getting, how many celebrities are writing books, etc. etc.
All you can control is your own work. Focus on that. The odds are just numbers. Don't let them get you down.
I'd never thought about that question before I started writing myself. But now, when I tell people I'm working on a novel, it's amazing how many people say either (A), that their cousin's friend's uncle's neighbor just got published or (B), that they want to write a book, too.
And the online community of writers is pretty staggering in and of itself. Yes, there are a whooooole lot of us out here.
Thanks for this! I needed to hear it today! :)
Honestly, I thought I was in competition with way more than 15,000, since one out of every two Americans feel they should write a book--and only 15,000 in one year did? I actually feel ENCOURAGED by that number.
In re: market timing
I haven't seen any indications over the past few years that the publishing markets are prone to wild flights of fancy. Urban fantasy isn't going to go away tomorrow to be replaced by ninja sheep fantasy (although how cool would that be?). Slap a YA together and it will have a better shot than the same tale with a 40-ish character. Science fiction is dying off by leaps and bounds. You can write to the market, and most people do. If you write faster, perhaps you can take advantage of rising trends like steampunk, but I bet steampunk is still trending in a year, maybe longer.
A writer who can crank out a book in less than 12 months will be able to write what's selling and still have a better shot than one who just writes great ninja sheep tales and waits for them to become hot.
I guess my point is that yes, the market changes, but like anything else, it does so slowly and somewhat predictably
You're absolutely right. Only you have your own voice. Own it.
The Question: Are there that many people out there writing books?
The Answer: There are that many people out there typing...
This post made my whole day! I just submitted a manuscript yesterday (ah, the agony of waiting!) and all too often, I tell myself I'm going to fail just from the sheer number of other authors out there vying for the same thing.
:D You can get rejected 1000 times but it only takes 1 acceptance to hit the top.
Besides, we're writers, right? We don't deal with numbers. So keep on truckin'.
But how many people are regular readers? What's the writer to obsessive reader ratio?
Wonderful post. It's nice to remember that we're writing because we enjoy it.
I was going to use that question as my crutch and limp away without making a comment becasue, you know, 63 comments. How can my comment be noticed among so many. Of course that would have meant that I learned nothing from your post. Well said. Very positive.
My heart goes out to anyone who has worked really hard on a well crafted original tale with solid writing skill that can't get it published.
At that point you have to take stock of your own soul and sense of purpose and pat yourself on the back for having the courage to dream the dream and see it through. You truly become a writer when you have pieces of work you have declared as "finished."
The rest to phrase it harshly is cult of personality bullshit compared to dreaming the dream all the way to completion. I enjoy N,s board because its a good cross section of people-artists and he also has taken the plunge into dreaming a dream and working it to the finish line.
Eventually we all get old and die. Maybe our stories live in our (hopefully) eternal souls like gardens of dreams we had the courage to build and one day own forever.
I was also surprised that it's only 15,000.
If you chunk it down -- consider the market segmentation (fiction v. non-fiction, all the genres) you will realize that there are very few you compete directly against. How many are actually writing what you write (paranormal romance, cozy mystery, police procedural thriller)?
If you look at specific audiences and genres you really are talking about 10-50 other writers dominating your specific market (in most cases). Study their work and write to their standard (or higher, in some genres that's not hard to do).
15,000? No, not even close. Seriously. It's all in how you look at those numbers. For each one of us -- depending on what we write -- it's far less. In my genre it is only about 20-3 active good writers, so the door is wide open. Readers are searching and snapping up everything they can find. That's why my books are selling so well.
Take a look at your real competition, and I think you'll find it isn't nearly as daunting.
With 300 million people just here in the U.S. your chances of someone buying your book looks pretty good, even if less than half are the type who buy a book now and then.
Coach Bransford, I need you to help me tell myself (whom I'm in competition with) to get my ass moving. It's getting late. I've wasted so many years not doing what I should be doing and instead trying to do that other thing and being stressed out about not doing what I want to be doing. Tell myself to just do it already. Thanks, coach.
Such a true post. I find myself freaking out because I see all of these people pumping out books and querying multiple projects over the course of the year and I'm just trying to get a first draft completed!
I had to really take a step back and realize that my book will be better if I follow my OWN pace and not the pace of others. I have to remind myself of that every so often, though...
That's how I looked at it!
So, how many are querying publishers? I bet that number is even higher.
I agree with writing the story you're passionate about *when* you're passionate about it. If you don't, if you write based on a trend (even *if* you could predict the market, publishing takes time)your work will be sub-par because your heart wasn't in it. If you're writing just to make a name for yourself or the money (yes, I heart $ just as much as the next median income girl does) then you're in the wrong business, in my opinion anyway. When I write, I live and breathe my story, the characters, and their lives...because that's what *I* love in reading a book. I want to read a book that catches me up in a current so strong that I forget I'm not really there, that it's fiction. You can't do that if you're writing something you feel "Eh..." about. And yes, the numbers can be daunting and getting rep-ed/published sometimes feels this side of no way in hell, but, really, ask yourself, "Why am I writing and who am I writing for?" If I love the story, that's what ultimately matters, if I get published, well, that's a freaking hell of a bonus!
Nathan:
That photo on this post ... Churchill and Atlee on VE Day, perhaps from balcony at B. Palace?
JK Rowling submitted to 12 agents before the 13th took her. I think Stephanie Meyer submitted to 15 before one took her. Twelve people told JK Rowling, "We can't take a chance on this, it's not commercially viable."
The fact is, no one knows for sure what's commercially viable. A funny, charming, intelligent book about boy wizards that one might think would do fabulously as a follow-up to Harry Potter might do only so-so for no reason anyone can easily discern. On the flip side, fourteen years ago someone said "Whoever heard of wizard school? That's not what's selling right now. But... I love this story, maybe it's worth a shot."
I think that if you have a good book, and you have a rather liberal measure of patience, it will find a home no matter what the market currently is.
Thank you.
A lot of people talk about writing a book, but few of those complete the task.
Some of these new writers swelling the query lines are from other professions and are experts in their fields. Time will determine if they can succeed in writing fiction.
I don't let the numbers get me down. I just keep writing.
I definitely freak out about the number of writers out there sometimes. Maybe it's because I'm so involved in the young adult writing blogosphere with my own blog, but I feel like EVERYONE is writing YA right now!
Still, you're right. You can't worry about what you can't control. The best thing is to relax, try your best, and just write!
So glad to hear this Nathan. Yesterday's blog had me down, but this one pumped me up, so thanks for that!
I'm glad that so many people are spending time writing and building hopeful aspirations. The happiest times of my life were when creating, and I think this is true for others as well. It's great that so many are tapping into their creative and spiritual sides as this is surely where all true inspiration comes from. I think the writing process is good for us: encourages us to think and not merely follow trends and current philosophies without thinking for ourselves, but to add to the culture ourselves. It encourages us to believe in ourselves and our talents and also helps us to understand other people. The whole creative process is a win-win, I think - as long as we don't allow ourselves to be defeated by despair if success doesn't come. It's the journey where the true rewards lie on many levels.
15,000 queries a year sounds overwhelming, and no doubt FEELS overwhelming when you’re on the receiving end, like Nathan. But compared to the US population (300 million) it’s just one in 20,000 people, or about six people in the city of Cork, where I live (and which is in Ireland, but will serve as a statistical example).
The photo? Nathan most famous client, of course. Who was written off by his teachers as an idiot but became one of history’s greatest leaders. Who had a very obvious stammer but became possibly the greatest orator ever. Not to mention one of the twentieth century’s most prolific and successful authors.
Ian, Ninja Sheep Fantasy? Definitely The Next Big Thing! BAAAAHHHH!!!!!
It seems like a lot more than that.
Thank you for posting this. These are the right words at the right time for me.
I appreciate the pep talk. Thank you.
15,000? Per year? Really? It cannot possibly be that low, can it? For some reason I thought one agency was fielding that many queries every year.
Are you people inflating how hard you're working Nathan?
Just kidding. As usual you make a great point. And your sage advice is very factual and makes much sense. But you also manage to tap into a writer's heart and soul as only you can do my man.
Thank you so much for motivating us to do our best over and over again. And I know it's not just smoke. You really do believe what you write here.
I've been following long enough to know that for sure.
There is only one person who cam write my novels, after all, and sometimes it takes a little reminder that the numbers and the chum don't mean spit when it all comes down to the marrow.
Bravo, sir, and thanks.
The 15,000 number is very unscientific. That's just my very rough estimate for the number of queries I receive each year. It doesn't count all the other people out there who are moving to self-publishing, who don't query me, etc. etc. There are way more writers out there than that. Should have been more specific.
A kindly message. thank you,Sir, I needed that!
Nathan,
I wasn’t disagreeing with your post. I was in a hurry this afternoon, and was just responding to something that Allison and Ian said because I think their point was also relevant. When a writer’s struggling to keep on going, it isn’t enough to keep in mind that you only have control over your own writing. A writer really needs to keep in mind that, even if they exert tremendous control over their own writing and raise their skill level to an excellent level, it might not matter. The book might still only be eligible for a drawer or self-publishing because it’s not a popular enough topic or style.
As for myself, I’m actually practicing what your Blog recommended today. I’ve been writing and editing like crazy, have pulled myself almost entirely off the Internet for a while, and am determined to concentrate as much as possible on the novel I’m writing. I’m not thinking about the competition or anything else like that. It’s been fun!
"Don't do it. The only person you're in competition with is yourself. You can't control how many people are out there, how many queries agents are getting, how many celebrities are writing books, etc. etc.
All you can control is your own work. Focus on that. The odds are just numbers. Don't let them get you down."
Thank you!!!!
I may have to write a book right up your alley so I can query you one day. Even if I don't, I will send you a nice thank you note when my ship comes in. You certainly make the voyage worth all the fiery hoops that we must jump through.
Thank you, again and again.
Two thoughts:
If you don't play, you can't win.
And if you don't enjoy the game, you might want to quit playing.
Of course I want to be published, to have my work read. But whether or not that happens, or happens soon, or happens in the way I expect or hope? I won't regret a single revision. Not a word, even. The thought of not writing is what really gives me the creeps.
Remember Larry, the Billy Crystal character in THROW MOMMA FROM THE TRAIN? He was a teacher of creative writing. Every day, he told his class, "Writers write." 'nuff sed?
When I read how many tens of thousands of books are published every year, and I see some of the absolute crap hitting the shelves, it seems to put the odds into perspective.
Old Salt
"There are way more writers out there than that"
Man, what's up? Stop freaking people out. Go take your vacation, my man. Relax.
I found this strangely depressing and comforting at the same time. There really are 15,000 people querying out there? Crap. But phew, I don't have to worry about them - I can just focus on writing the best book I can.
I guess I should get back to writing the best book(s) I can, then.
Only 15,000 per year? Is that an accurate figure for number of queries that an agent receives for an entire year? That sounds so low. From the way agents discuss queries, I always assumed it was much higher than that. In independent film companies, producers receive a higher number of complete scripts per year.
Wise words Nathan. Easy to get caught up in the "competition" thing in the beginning. Now, I don't pay attention. My novel and what I do to make it stand out and well written it what matters to me. It has to pass my own "reader" test and I'm one tough customer.
Lets get the headdesk out of the way first.
*Headdesk*
15000 to ONE AGENCY! say there are 150 agencies in the US (god knows how many there really are) of differing sizes and workloads. Guestimate that 1 in 10 of that 15000 haven't been shopped to another agent.....do the maths....it equals 225000 novels a year plus the initial 15000. 240K, or about 1 american in 1250.
Secondly: how does one know books better than what is being published are getting turned away daily? (Aside from the odd one that slips through the net, which, statistically, there always will be in a rejection pile of 214900, and is successful through self publishing). How do you KNOW there are soooo many good novels remaining unpublished?
And lastly: Can we PLEASE stop using Potter/Meyer's rejection folder as evidence that publishers know nothing. As rebuttal, I give you....(drum Roll)...Kurt Warner!!!
Considered the Greatest undrafted player of all time, was stacking shelves prior to winning the Superbowl, valued MVP and breaking the Superbowl passing record in the process, 12 year career and now has more money than god.
So using this fantastically warped logic:
- The NFL draft system is broken and should be scrapped
- The dozens of scouts working for each of the NFL teams obviously know nothing and should all be sacked
- The NFL should be going back to every player who went for a trial between the ages of 10 and 16 and re-evaluating them based on their technical skill, not their effectievness in game situations.
Is that what you're saying? No? Didn't think so.
Supply, Demand, Choice. There are as many hopefuls applicants to the few NFL places as there are authors to the shelves of the bookstore. Sometimes someone slips through the net because a HUMAN BEING has to choose between 1000 people to fill 1 spot.
Nathan's point is that the fluid nature of publishing means that that 1 slot today could be 6 tomorrow, improving your chances. So just be glad you aren't looking for a certain number on a jersey.
I Leave you with Stephen King, oracle of all things great - "[To get published] you have to be at the right place, at the right time. As we can't know when the right time is, our job [as writers] is to get to the right place and stay there."
Thanks, Nathan!
I agree. Mind and experience is as individual as the fingerprint. No matter how many people are writing, no one else can say what I have to say the way I will say it. Say, say, say what you want (per Paul McCartney).
Put that together with talent and skill and I ain't a-sairt.
compare pimp my novel's contra:
it's who you know.
Of course, 15,000 is a super low number. There have to be way, way more writers out there than that. One of my friends who's an author and writing teacher has more than 25,000 subscribers to his newsletter. Just looking at the follower count on popular writing blogs and Twitterers - and knowing there are thousands of writers out there that aren't even visible on the internet - leads me to believe that there must be a half a million writers at any given time pursuing publishing.
But maybe I'm just biased because of the overwhelming nature of my personal inbox each day.
98% of those writing books are doing so in the erroneous belief that publication is the royal road to riches.
If the public knew the truth about how poorly compensated most authors are, including the ones whose books appear in stores, there would be a lot less people writing them.
But agents and editors hide the truth about the size of most deals and the public hears only about that handful of authors receiving the multimillions.
The odds are never what they seem.
J.T. - I think the 15,000 queries sent to Nathan has been mentioned on this blog previously as daunting, in terms of getting Nathan as your agent.
But I truly think these numbers are very deceptive. You don't just get one shot at publishing your book - you get tons of shots, hundreds if we are talking over years. Maybe awhile ago the door closed after a certain number of attempts, but not any more.
Other people's good books strengthen the industry and keep readers coming back. I continue to insist that we, as authors, need each other.
We do. We need other authors.
As much as I enjoy a fantasy of being the only author in the world who people want to read, I honestly think I'd have alittle trouble meeting the demand.
Other authors are not really our competition. Everyone can publish one way or another, everyone can reach an audience if their work is good.
Other authors are our comrades-in-arms.
Jenny-
If by "hiding" you mean keeping our clients' financial matters confidential as a matter of ethics, then yes. Authors are welcome to reveal the size of their advances and royalties if they choose to do so. It's not my place.
With the answer to that question being "yes," it's amazing that this post was still very encouraging. Thanks.
Thank you that is exactly what I needed to hear today.
Needed to hear that. Too much pessimism in some circles.
I'm open to correction, but Hillsy's calculations seem to suggest 94% of novels (225,000 of 240,000) are only shopped to ONE agency apiece each year(!?)
Jenny, only someone shipwrecked on a desert island would be so ignorant of publishing in this year of 2010. As far as I can see, most writers have low expectations, and some agents and editors (and other writers!) are all too eager to lower those expectations even further.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/6/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Add a tag
There's a whole lot of chatter out there on the Internet these days about self-publishing. Some people still think self-publishing is a secondary option to traditional publication, some fear a deluge of poorly edited books, some are heralding self-publishing as not only the way of the future, but are fast proclaiming anyone who foresees a future with traditional publishers a hopeless dinosaur.
(Speaking personally, I think there's room for all models in the new era, we can all get along, and I'm a bit confused about why these debates have taken on such an ideological/religious tenor in some circles. But I suppose that's not the stuff great blog posts are made of.)
Back to the question at hand: would you consider self-publishing? Under what circumstances?
Poll below! (you'll need to click through if you're reading on an RSS reader or via e-mail).
I chose "with a side project," but I'm not sure that's actually the reasoning I'd use.
I'm published in non-fiction. Audience is sub-niche. If I published again for that audience, I'd self-publish, because the publisher couldn't give me a wider audience than I can reach myself.
For fiction, I'll stick to traditional... at least at this point... because I don't have the audience yet.
I cannot tell you how many times I've gotten requests for my complete ms to be told the agent really likes it but with the market the way it is ....
Self-publishing is a way for me to get published now, and we'll see what the future holds as far a traditional publishers/agents go. I agree with you, there's room and readers enough for all of us, and I don't think one is better than the other.
Oh, btw, I voted no.
This came in an email to me today -- Barnes and Noble has a new service called Publit where you can upload your self pubbed book and it will go on sale there within 48 hours, I think. So others can buy it straight from them. Yay, or not?
http://pubit.barnesandnoble.com/pubit_app/bn?t=support&sourceid=L000001469&[email protected]&cm_mmc=Other-_-Misc-_-101006_MI01_PUBIT_ROLLOUT-_-proothfaq
Nathan -
Fair enough, I'll accept your answer. :) At least you said:
"when in doubt give the traditional publishing process a try first".
-Anon@12:46
I meant I was Anon@12:36. Heh, I should just use my name.
I have a dream. I've had it for a long time. I want to see a book, written by me, on the shelf of the library I grew up with. The library my mother works at. It's a goal I want to achieve like CRAZY.
I'll not only court traditional publishing - I'll stalk it until every bit of the industry is exhausted and if I still don't have a book on that shelf, then I'll do it whatever way I have to. Whatever it takes.
A more pertinent question for me would be:
Would I consider going with an indie e-publisher (instead of a traditional one)?
(I don't know the answer yet.)
I chose "side projects." For my novels, I would definitely prefer a tradtional publisher, so I could take advantage of the things they have to offer.
However, I am deeply into genealogy and am compiling a book(s) of my research. These would only be of interest to my immediate family and other researchers looking into the same families that I am. This project would not interest a traditional publisher, but a POD-type self-publishing model would work well for it.
RE: SP: If I could be sure of professional editing, layout, marketing, and distribution, etc.
I would notch up my consideration.
Self-publishing is more convenient for an author IF said author has experience with the publishing industry - the distribution, the marketing, the cover-art, the EDITING. Self-publishing is sometimes misunderstood - misinterpreted as the 'easy way out'; you don't have to query, you don't have to wait, you get a higher royalty, and you get to control EVERYTHING.
BUT
You have to make that book compete with the rest, traditionally-published books regarding everything.
God, I'm not even making sense.
Bottom line: if you're choosing it because agents/publishers wouldn't buy your book, you might want to take a second look at it; you're probably not the world's upcoming Shakespeare. Seriously.
And if you're choosing it for the flexibility: be careful and choose well.
Almost a year ago, I began the arduous journey of searching for an agent by - first of all - studying ad nauseam how to write the perfect query.
After I had that down pat (in my mind, anyway), I selected Nathan. Within an hour, I received a rejection that "my work was simply not for him."
I cannot tell you how grateful I was for that email. Meaning: The book I was proposing is a compilation of animal-related newspaper columns. Though published, my platform is just about ground level. And Nathan, bless him, sent me on my way to e-publishing.
For the more I read about it, the more I felt like this was the way I should go. I could spend months/years chasing the elusive ace-agent yet - even if I found a taker - I'd spend another year or two...waiting. Not my strong suit.
So, I bit the bullet and learned all I could about e-publishing. As my columns were already written (and self-edited, too), I learned how to format in HTML. I did my own cover photo; no caption, but no biggie.
And, other than a couple spacing errors and one page of bold text (my fault), the book previewed pretty good.
Bottom line: The Animal Advocate was published on Amazon's Kindle two days ago. And, although the long haul of marketing is staring me down, I am proud and pleased that I went "outside the box" when - for me - the inside of that box was most likely going to remain empty.
As for traditional vetting: Yes, crap abounds among some indie authors. Yet, as an avid reader, I've seen so much *yuck* published lately by well-known writers that - again - I'll take my chances knowing that readers aren't stupid; they can find a diamond in the rough easily. Just hope I'm one of them...
OMG...I see that my comment posted four times! Don't know what happened as it kept "canceling" it out.....anyway, SORRY!!!
Why should you self publish? Because it's scary.
It's scary to be out there on your own, with only yourself to blame for the success or failure of your works. Most people do not have the skill or fortitude to be an entrepreneur.
Be lazy, get a trad pub. Let them determine your success or failure.. :)
I've considered it, but I'm more interested in traditional publishing.
WORD VERIFICATION: bacula. After the modernization of the vampire, there will be a retro movement to the pure origins of the Transylvanian count who started it all.
(deleted) anon-
Over the line. There's no reason for personal attacks.
I'm surprised at how high the percentage is of those who would self-publish. Wow. I wouldn't want to do that in a million years.
Self publishing is a tempting avenue, but I'll be looking for the agent-then-publisher route for my book. As much as I like the idea of earning more royalties and having all the say in the design and look of the book, I'm a write and I just want to write. It's easy to get caught up in the "other" stuff, but I have to remind myself to just keep writing and leave the editing and designing to those who are experts. :)
I've done it for side projects and for things that have already been published and the rights have reverted. I've done it for things that don't fit anywhere in the traditional scheme of things (i.e. novellas). It's actually quite a lot of fun. There's some projects, however, that I feel better marketing through a more traditional publisher.
Only self-publishing for me. I would never go traditional. The traditional model has too many flaws, in my opinion.
1.) Rights: I wouldn't want to spend a year or more writing the novel, caring for it, nurturing it, then six months editing it just to give it to one of the Big Six so I can receive 10%-15% royalties. Never.
2.) Royalties: Roughly 10% for the first 10,000 copies sold and then 15% after that. So on a $26.00 hard cover I'd start at $2.60 per book. And yet Barnes & Noble buys the $26.00 for $13.00. Barnes & Noble, a book store, makes 5 times what I make per book and I wrote it. Never.
3.) E-book royalties: 40% ceiling in traditional. And that's only because Wylie stood up to the plate. 70% at Amazon and 85% at Smashwords for self-pubbed. Do the math. On a $4.99 e-book, I make $3.50 at Amazon and $4.24 at Smashwords. Go figure. That's a much cheaper book for the reader and I make more as the author.
There are too many reason to list here. I have about 30 more. They're all in my upcoming book called Publishing Exposed: The Sedore Report.
Good luck to all those going traditional. The Big Six will be the Big Two in about 5-10 years. The Big Two: Amazon and Apple
I think this one depends entirely on the project.
With something that has a shot at being the next Harry Potter, go for trad so you can get all that publicity and legitimacy behind you. Every school librarian in the land will be pushing your book.
If you just finished a quick, dirty little paranormal romance that doesn't quite fit mainstream conventions but might still probably grab the attention of several thousand Twilight fans, go self-pub/e-book only.
As in the experience of Amanda Hocking (http://amandahocking.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-thoughts-on-indie-publishing.html) you could make a LOT more money that way than trying to hack it with a small press that can't sell much for you anyway.
Considering, yes.
Still on the fence.
A friend took the self plunge with his first. It must have given him a step up, since he received major professional backup on the follow-up book. He made to the shelves of Starbucks. So the initial push was worth it.
Cheers!
In the late 90's I posted episodic installments of a series based on some chatroom buddies of mine. In that sense I suppose I'd embraced self-publishing before ever truly knowing what it was.
These days I am willing to publish in whatever format will get my writing directly to my readers. My readers don't really care how I get it to them as long as I just give them what they need.
It depends on the project. I have already self-published a fairy-tale themed novella, but I have also just signed a contract with a traditional publisher for a thriller novel. I like that I can do both!
Self-publishing is definitely not for everyone. It's nice that there are things we can choose that work for us.
If I had a platform to build off, yeah, for my current story I'd do it: it's an experimental idea, and around 40k, so... for fantasy, particularly non-romantic, I haven't really found a market it fits yet.
I'm more tempted to let it go for the love, though. It took so much of me, taught me how to write short, and tested the limits of what my mind would let me write (I'm not really into blood... but then I had to kill someone "on screen" :|) that money doesn't entirely seem worth it, anymore.
I know that I need the eyes of an editor on my work in order to see the areas where what I have done is good, but not quite amazing. I want my work to get to "amazing" before it gets to the shelves.
I think it's the validation. I write literary fiction, which is hard enough to sell when pubbed traditionally. But part of the heaven/hell of lit fiction is the ridiculously impossible chance of being published. It's not just about being read; it's about being considered brilliant. And getting short story into VQR or Agni would be a reward in and of itself--not the same as self-pubbing it and having friends and relatives read it.
@Mariam Maarouf. You are making perfect sense to me.
Getting a book out on the market -- and I assume we're talking about a broader market than family and friends -- involves so much more than just writing it. That seems so easily forgotten. Of course a writer could purchase most of the services needed to deliver a competitive book (editing, cover art, illustrations, etc.), but that will involve a serious investment. If you take such an investment into the equation, the self-publishing royalties aren't as glorious as they may seem at first sight.
Traditional publishers have the expertise and -- not unimportant -- the marketing and distribution channels, that will give a book a better chance out there.
In August, I self-pubbed my fantasy novel JUNCTION 2020 via Amazon's CreateSpace, which is print-on-demand. This is better than regular self-pubbing because there is not an initial cash output! I got to design my own cover, too. I tried POD as an experiment, with a novel I stopped querying about, but didn't want to shelve. This way, at least a dozen people have read my book already, and liked it. I can give copies to my family, friends, etc. Cool!
However, I am still trying for traditional publishing. If I never attain that, at least I will have ONE book with my name on it.
(which is very cool thrill to see, let me tell ya).
My book if you're curious:
Junction 2020 on Amazon
I have to admit, I've thought about it over the years. It's been a long, rocky path for me...but I got some advice early on that stuck with me. A well-known author said it in answer to someone's question about e-publishing at a workshop. She said it's all about your career path. You have to sit down and map it out at the beginning and ask yourself, is e-publishing/self-publishing going to help you make your goals? If someone's goal is just to write and get their work out there in a small forum, why not? But I just personally would rather wait for a traditional publishing deal.
Only if eBooks truly become the dominant form of publishing do I think self-publishing will ever be equal to that of traditional publishing, at least for mass market books. The Internet may yet be the great equalizer. But brick and mortar stores still dominate, and the only way to get in them in a big way is with the traditional route.
I self-published 20 or so years ago, before POD and ebooks, when it was both expensive and a lot of work. Although the novel did well, selling over 2,500 copies and attracting the attention of a editor at a major house, I didn't consider self-publishing when I lost a contract with her for what would have been my second novel. And I said I wouldn't consider self-publishing again because of the stigma and the fact that self-published books are ineligible for reviews in key journals and most awards.
All the people on this and other sites, however, are pushing me to change my mind. Because so many midlist authors and their series are being dropped due to low sales, self-publishing may be the only way for those authors to stay in the game. And small presses may offer prestige and eligibility for critical accolades, but they take all your rights and don't do anything with them, and pay you very little money.
Nathan what do you think about literary fiction and self-publishing? I just do not see a place for it.
anon-
Still think it depends on the project. There's a lot of literary fiction falling through the publishing cracks these days.
I chose yes and that I won't even be looking for a traditional publisher and here's why:
Over the two and a half years it's taken me to write my first novel, the first in a series of six, I've read so many negative things about traditional publishing that it isn't even slightly attractive anymore.
I've decided that I have enough confidence in my work and enough power, myself, to go the "self-publishing route."
In the long-run, if my book does really well, I can sit back and say, "Hey man, you did that yourself. People love your work and it isn't because of a big-house pubby -- it's because of your passion."
Not to say that others don't have passion.
I honestly feel that this is the best path for me. I'm a real do-it-yourself kind of guy. I get a large amount of satisfaction out of it.
And I realize that there are people that will disregard what I've written, even if I price it at, say, 2.99, but hey, their loss.
Honestly, do what feels good. Go with your gut. This is what my gut tells me.
Three things...
Now: It is currently in an authors financial best interest to self-pub, IF they are small press or niche. If your a NYC best seller it probably too big to manage without an agent, etc.
Future: When "the book" goes away in the predicted 5 to 10 years (per the trad pub houses), do you want to have control over the relationship with your audience, or do you want your publisher to own that relationship.
Agents: How long will it before there are agents who specialize in matching up indie authors with editors, cover artists, marketers, reviewers and voice actors outside the traditional publishing model?
Personally, I would not self-publish. I have absolutely no problem with people doing it if that's what is right for them, but for what I am looking for as an aspiring author (wider reach than my personal acquaintances, for one) it is incredibly hard with self-pubbing, as I've seen firsthand working in bookstores.
Imagine yourself going into a bookstore to spend $25 of your hard-earned money on something that you are then going to spend a lot of time on reading. Would you really be likely to pick up something you've never heard of, with a cover that's probably not quite professional looking, and not from a publisher you've heard of? Maybe you would, but I wouldn't, and that's why I wouldn't self-publish.
I feel like, if I can't find an agent and get a traditional publisher to pick up my work, I need to improve it, and if I can't, maybe I'm not meant to be published right now. Just my two cents, and I know lots of people think differently, and to each his own! If you're looking for something different than I am out of publication, it could be great for you.
One caveat: I do think self-pub is great for one thing, and that's niche titles that you have a platform for but not a big enough platform for a publisher to pick you up. In the bookstore I worked at, self-pub books came in all the time and sold very little, except for a book about a very specific kind of gardening in our state's environment. That sold really well (well for a self-pub book that is, still not really well compared to most traditional pub books), because it was the only thing out there.
I used to shun it and look down on it and view it with horror and so on. Circumstances changed my opinion.
It happened step by step. I didn't even realize that I was approaching the precipice.
First, I republished as ebooks my old novels that were originally published in the standard way. That was so easy. I even got checks in the mail. Sooo tempting ...
Then - oh, shame! - I took the plunge and published an original work as an ebook. And I felt a vast sense of relief. Now I'm ... I'm ... sob! ... looking forward to doing the next one the same way.
But I'll query a few agents first on that one. Just in case.)
Another thing:
Outside of certain genre fiction, do readers ever look at who published a book?
Yet Another Thing:
At this moment, per the poll, 65% would participate in some form of self-publishing. If I were an agent I would like long and hard about that trend. Especially how to make money off of it. :)
You're always on the leading edge, Nathan, and I truly appreciate that. I think there's a lot of turmoil over the self-vs-traditional publishing routes because people have so much vested (in both options). But I love your take: it depends on the project, the author, and possibly even the timing (in their career). Maybe we can de-stigmatize and let people find their audiences?
I agree that it depends on the project. I think if the book is targeted for a main stream audience, it's probably better off with a major publisher. But, if the book is more of a niche then it might do well beings self-published, since it would be easier to find (and market to) the audience the book is aimed at.
I have self published, but it was for a couple of reasons. First, I thought that my book was going to be for a much narrower market. Turns out I was wrong about that, but that's another story (sorry for the pun)
Second, I got pretty far in a BookSurge contest and they gave me a pretty good deal, which I assume is why they held these in the first place, right?
The real question is, would I do it again?
I'd say maybe. If the book were for a very narrow market, probably, but otherwise, probably not.
For niche/family things that I wanted nicely bound, I'd go through a self-publishing service. If I wanted my work out there and couldn't/wouldn't do it through a traditional publisher, I might consider creating a website on which to publish my fiction writing. MIGHT. It would depend how badly I wanted it out there, or how much I wanted to promote it.
I feel quite fortunate to be working for The Man (Orbit Books, two-book deal). I can't imagine performing all the behind-the-scenes work necessary for a world release.
The book is available almost everywhere (U.S. and Commonwealth formats) and is on the shelves of 180-some library systems.
Helpful hint for those with books out in the world, or looking for a certain book in libraries: try worldcat.org
i would...under these conditions: Writing daily 35+ years. Writing published in magazines. Oodles of rejections for creative nonfiction books and novels. i would, and did. i do.
I thought about it...but that was before I published with a small press that offers booksellers the same returnability that the large houses do...so my books will be on the shelves as well.
For me self-publishing was a last resort. But I know plenty of indie authors that it was their first an only choice.
Nathan, your right...it's become a topic that makes people's blood bloil and opens the door for otherwise decent writers to be torn to shreds. Of course there will always be the schlock that gets self-pubbed...but taking that path shouldn't automatically demean the quality of the work.
i'm just thankful I didn't have to go that way.
Marianne Morea
Author, Hunter's Blood
I would only consider self-publishing, but only if a really cute agent like you rejected me. Okay, I know you said it wouldn't work, but a writers gotta try.
Scratch only. The ADD is acting up again.
With the evolution of the ebook and self-promotion on the Internet, do you think that self-publishing will always have that "you're not quite good enough to be published" stigma, or do you think that will soon be a thing of the past?
If the publishing dinosaurs do die out, I have a completely original plan. Let's get their DNA from flies that sucked their blood and then got stuck in tree sap that later turned into amber. Then we fill in the gaps with reptile DNA (among other stupid mistakes) and clone them on a secret island theme park off the coast of Central America. Then we invite families with children to get eaten...I mean entertained by the revived dinosaurs.
I can see it now. 'Run, Lex! It's the Elsevierosaur! Oh no! There's Tyrannosaurus Random! And there's a Scholasticus right behind you! Not only will they tear you apart limb-from-limb and devour your remains, they'll try to give you only 25% of the Ebook net!'
It's better to consider all options if you want to be realistic.
I wouldn't totally rule it out. That decision would depend on the type of story, the genre, and the reactions that were generated via rejected submissions.
I'd prefer to have an agent assist with the publishing end of the process.
Self-Publishing isn't the taboo it used to be and more and more writers are turning to it as the market gets harder and harder to crack.
For me, I still fell that having a publisher publish my book is a right of passage in a sense. It's the notion that you have been accepted. Someone out there thought you were good enough to take that leap of faith.
I am considering self publishing side projects like a collection of my published short stories with some new stories thrown into the mix. I think it would be a good way to promote myself and my writing, as well as something for the fans. All my stories in one place - especially since most of them are not readily available.
But as for the novel, at this stage, I need that validation.
I self-published after nice rejections ("well-written but the space is crowded") and nearly making it to the show (manuscripts requested and reviewed).
It wasn't the quality of my work that held it back -- it was perceived marketability.
Amazon Kindle came along several years after I finished my first book, and I took advantage. Now I'm getting nice fat electronic deposits from Amazon every month.
Would I do it again? Yes. I love retaining my rights, controlling pricing, cover art, and editorial. I love real readers telling me they love my books.
The money has been a blessing. I'm paying for college educations. Sometimes you do what you have to do to help your children, and they are proud to say to their friends, "my mom is a best-selling Kindle author!"
When the stigma of being self-published burns? I just rub some money on it.
For me, a big consideration is "print or e-book"? I don't think I'd want to self-publish in print. I don't think I'd want to go traditional for e-book. Those are my own biases.
If/when I ever get something completed, I strongly suspect I'll be going pure e-book. I think that within a few years the percentages (market% x royalty%) are going to favor the self-published e-book—for most narrative fiction, anyway.
I personally don't need the validation of a 'Big 6' publisher, and I don't need to have the physical book with my name on the cover. That makes the decision easier for me than for many others.
No. I wouldn't want to take on all that extra work.
But I do have a huge sense of admiration for those who do invest their time, money, and have the courage to go that route. I also think they may be on to something that's only going to increase and become more popular in time.
I'm going to seek an agent for one novel and self-publish the other, so how's that for voting between the lines? ;)
I do internet marketing for my day job, and I just want to take a stab at creating a "product" of my own for once and seeing how I can do with selling it.
I've experimented by self-publishing short stories. It's exceeded my expectations and I've discovered I love all aspects of publishing despite it being a huge learning curve for me. I am going to self-publish my longer work as soon as I can afford to pay for editing.
I've never considered traditional publishing so I've nothing to lose. I think self publishing is a better fit for my personality.
I wouldn't buy or read a self-published book. I've been to Authonomy, I know what unpublished works read like without the benefit of editing and polishing. Though I've no doubt there are some gems in there, I don't have time to search through them myself. As a reader, I rely on the publishing houses to screen out the worst of the world's writing; I'm just not interested in seeing the dregs of the world's writing unfiltered.
It's like the difference between buying music from a backyard band and a band professionally produced by a record company. I wouldn't waste my money on the former. I'd trust if they were good enough, they'd eventually be published traditionally and I'd find them then.
I realise a lot of people use the 'subjective' line to explain why their work isn't getting picked up, but so often it actually seems like that's just something they say to make themselves feel better. Maybe it's simpler than that; they just don't have a good enough story for someone to buy it yet.
There's so much on the market and so many different tastes catered for that I trust the best gets there.
For the same reasons, I'm not interested in joining the ranks of the self-published. I want to be good enough to be published the legitimate way.
I just decided to go down the self-publishing route, after years of refusing to consider. Here's one of the reason why...
http://www.alanrinzler.com/blog/
That's the blog address from a publishing insider, Alan Rinzler.
Anyone interested in self-publishing should check out his fascinating blog.
Re: ideological/religious tenor. In hacker circles, this is what's known as a holy war. It happens when people try to pass off personal value choices as objective evaluations. Obviously it's not limited to obscure hacker issues.
I'd consider self-publishing if and only if (a) I didn't get published and (b) I had reason to believe total strangers would buy my book. That second one is still very much a sticking point.
I did self publish my book and it sold very well. Now it has been picked up by a publisher. I think self publishing is a great first step for a writer Yes, it is a great feeling when your work is validated by an agent, editor or publishing company but I know I'd never have made it to this point had I not first taken the plunge on my own. Go for it...
No. I respect those who self-publish, but it's not for me. I like the idea of having a publishing house standing behind me and supporting me, no matter how small they are. I've published poetry with small presses to date, and have had a great experience with genuinely helpful editors who helped me expand my market and place my work into the hands of folks who really wanted it. I also appreciate that having been published by a house gives me the sort of chops I need in academia - you can't make a tenure track position with self publishing. And there seems to be a reason - a number of self-published works I was happy to support have been both poorly edited (for content) and poorly copy edited. Until those who self-publish are willing to invest in editors, having someone else publish you and giving you that feedback can be really essential. Again - many self-published authors do it successfully and know the value of revision, editing, and proofreading...but the large number of those who *don't* end up making me suspicious of the whole practice. In the end, to each their own. As a librarian, writer, and booklover, as long as people are reading, I dont care how the material gets published; I care that people are encouraged to love reading.
I couldn't vote in your poll!
To me, self-publishing is an equal option to all others. I believe in diversification. I wouldn't do it and rule out NY, I wouldn't do it only if I didn't find a publisher for a project, and I wouldn't just reserve it for side projects.
Self-publishing is really just another publisher to consider. It depends what's best for the project, and I hope that I will be diversified enough one day to have my works in all pots.
Yes. No. Sure. Never! Maybe.
How should I know?
I tell stories. What does that have to do with publishing?
Right now, I don't see any attractive way to get my stories into the hands of many readers.
So I'll keep reading blogs like this and watch for changing time.
Maybe an idea I can live with will pop up. Maybe I'll win the lottery and buy a publishing house. I hear they're available cheap right now.
In the meantime, I'll just keep telling stories.
tjpfau
I would go for it if I had a very niche audience ( I did speeches on X say, and then sold a book at my seminar. Maybe poetry too.A local history book. Things that don't appeal to a wide audience)
Other than that, self-pubbing means, well. it means you don't think it has wide appeal OR you can't convince an agent or publisher it can. Which means it probably doesn't. (note the probably. It may do. But have you read the slush pile? It may very well not) You sell you work to your mates and unless you are very marketing savvy AND an awesome editor...you won't win. Unless you have your niche and/or you're bloody great at marketing.
PS - I hate the word verification. It'd be nice if it was actually a word....Because sometimes I can't make out what it's meant to be saying....8 times trying so far! If they were actual words it'd be easier to figure out what they are! Do I need to post this that badly? Actually if it does it one more time it can go screw itself.
Edit: fifteen times! I'm only doing this now to how how chuffing hard it is to comment here. If I had sight problems it'd be worse....I wouldn't mind but I'm stone cold sober. Why can't I just post a damn comment?
Fuck it. In the end I had to do it anonymously or stab the screen. Like it matters who I am. And stuff. But it'd be nice not to be anonymous
Sorry, but I didn't labor very long in the hostile vineyards of traditional publishing and can't understand why anyone else would either. I was very lucky and attracted excellent agents so it's certainly not that I was desperate or in dire straits. In fact, I received 5 very positive responses requesting chapter samples out of my first (and I swear my last) 53 query letters and then very quickly moved into serious discussions. This all happened within 8 weeks of beginning the query process but it was a process that left me feeling debased and immediately looking for alternatives. Why? I could write volumes on the subject (and most likely will later) but I think the pivotal moment came when I realized I just didn't have to grovel and toady and play "Mother May I?" No, maybe it was when an agent told me that under today's publishing business model Steinbeck couldn't get published. No, I think it might have been after another agent told me that even if we moved forward my book wouldn't be in print for about a year. No, wait, maybe it was when an agent suggested I "dumb the book down" because the average American reader can't "deal with complex." (Oh yeah? You ever watch the TV show "Lost" or see the movie "Crash"?) No, it was... OK, you get the point but I knew my decision was dead on right when I received an email from an agent last week (10/1) responding to my query dated May 4th (no business can operate in today's markets with that kind of response time; it's archaic). My experiences with assisted publishers like Smashwords and CreateSpace have been great. Mark Coker at Smashwords actually answered one of my emails within an hr. of me sending it to the company on a weekend! Contrast that to the agent’s response that took 5 months! Good God. These new companies are professional, have outstanding turnaround time, unbelievable customer service, and now offer extensive marketing and distribution strategies and avenues. What they don’t do is play Cultural Gatekeeper; instead they let the marketplace sort the wheat from the chaff and that works for me.
I have one self-published and hope to have my second (sequel to the first) in the next few months. Honestly, I don't think I'll ever submit a query to an agent again.
I have considered it, but only for side projects for the time being. For example, a collaboration with a friend that I'm working on.
I'm looking into self-publishing and marketing options. Agents and editors have indicated that my work is too unusual to fit in with traditional publishing's expectations of high fantasy. But there are plenty of people on the Internet with non-conventional interests. Instead of spending years telling people that it'll work and waiting for more form rejects, I'd rather show that the niche exists.
I'd do it...if I had a well-edited, market-perfect manuscript that I couldn't get an agent or publisher to pick up. With the popularity of e-readers going up, I would test first as e-books, then a short print run with an excellent cover.
I've come to see self publishing as the minor league farm system of traditional publishing. If you have a powerful plot that's well written and you've sourced it with a competent editorial check-up and some selected beta readers and they saw value why let being in the minor leagues bum you out so much you never make it to the magors. Comments here indicate theirs no real stigma left to self publishing as long as you retained all the original property rights. So, it seems like a baby steps lead to a walking and running environment, if self publishing has been used to drive the process forward.
Seriously, do the math. Other than those that have commented that they have been traditionally published, maybe one person here will be published the old-fashioned way. For the rest, if you ever want to see a book cover with your name on it, why not try self-publishing?
Personally, I'd sooner let my work sit in a drawer. There's just no quality control with self-publishing. That's not to say there's not a lot of good self-published books out there, but there's also just so many poorly written books. I will say I think it works much better with nonfiction, than with fiction though.
And I also wonder how many people seriously consider small independent presses any more?
- Bill "Classic" Camp
I'd consider it, sure. Heck I even thought I'd do it only to back down when I realize what I need is achievable for free if I publish in the traditional way.
Personally, I wouldn't self publish. It is quite costly, not to mention all the other production hats one must wear in addition to the endless hours spent with author professionalism.
If you have very deep pockets and want your book in print, no matter the quality, then by all means, self publish. The only other reason I see to self publish is if you need tenure at a college or university. "Publish or perish." Otherwise, to pay the price for a self pubbed work, plus the cost of my time to read such works presents a toss-up. If the writing is acceptable, the story usually isn't, or vice-versa, or both may be equally so-so and not worth my interest. Every self pubbed book I've looked at has some kind of editing, construction, or layout problems, which are usually the responsibility of the author and go unchecked.
If I'm going to publish my work I want to make sure it's good enough to be acquired by a major pub house so that it will garner the respect I hopefully believe it deserves.
The world is changing, publishing is changing, I am self publishing. Children's picture books are too hard to break into. Especially with something different. https://www.arithmeticvillage.com
I think the question isn't quite as simple as it was. Grissom self-published his first book when he couldn't find a traditional publisher and sold his book out of the back of his car to brick and mortar stores. That is an expensive way to go. However, with the broader release of e-Books in the last couple of years, the entry cost has significantly dropped.
There is a writer, who's name and book elludes me, but gained a fair amount of success selling her book on a character that turns into a Tiger or something through Amazon exclusively, till she was picked up by a traditional publisher. If memory serves, she sold 50,000 copies, built up a following, and became much more attractive to a traditional publishing house since she had established herself before hand. The cost of having to market a new writer and book were substantially reduced, and they signed her for her third book and to rerelease her first two books again.
As marketing money decreases and traditional houses retreat more to supporting and heavily marketing top ten writers who are sure winners, this may become the way in which future writers gain entry more often than not. The risk of supporting a new, untried writer then would be negated and they would be buying, for all intents and purposes, a proven product with a higher profit margin.
Personally, I see this more as a last resort approach. Since e-Books are still not a huge portion of the potential market, you are essentially restricting sales to those willing to indulge in the new technology. The broader market of "Book Lovers" is lost until a publisher picks up your contract and releases hard copy editions. Ultimately I think this will make it more difficult for new writers to break in, since the phenomina of writers such as Paterson with that broad experience of marketting is rare. While the cost from self-publishing hard copy editions is eliminated, you are now having to learn successful self-marketting techniques which can be hit or miss, and may turn off many readers through poor marketing approaches.
Still, as a last resort...
Since I make my living as a self-published writer, I had to vote "YES." I'm not getting rich, but my sales are a little better month after month, and I'm paying my bills.
I got into self-publishing for one reason: Finances. I'm a former newspaper editor, lost my job and two years later still haven't found another one. Not sure I want to at this point. If my sales continue to climb, by the end of the year I'll be making as much as I ever did in journalism.
As those who have a strong vocal disdain for self publishing and self publishers, I'm sorry we can't all just agree to disagree.
Or I suppose I could go to my wife and say, "Sorry, honey, I can't pay the bills anymore. Some people on the Internet showed me the errors of my ways, that self-publishing is full of it. I guess we'll have no power or running water next month."
Self-publishing is not just an alternative to traditional publishing, it's often a path to a traditional book deal. The biggest publishing phenom of the 90s was initially self-published and sold out of the trunk of the author's car.
Bueller? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone?
The Celestine Prophecy.
@Nancy
Self-publishing expensive? What decade are you posting from? You can self-pub for FREE, e-book or print. Go to smashwords, scribd, or lulu.
I self published my first Fantasy novel and was relatively OK with the result. It was nicely produced, it cost me nothing, and it earned me a couple of hundred pounds while it was available. I've since had it accepted by a small press publisher and it's due to be re-issued next year with extra editing and a new cover.
It was nowhere near as successful in terms of copies sold, or exposure in bookshops, as my traditionally published book, but it was certainly not a bad experience.
I know this will get lost with all the other comments on this post. (This is why I don't normally leave comments here).
However, I just wanted to say that I have self-published. The thing is, traditional publishers still ask you to help market your own book. I don't think they're willing to go the full hog and finance the marketing themselves.
This is one of the main things traditional publishers used to have over self-publishing. Not being willing to do this has meant that more and more authors will (at least) consider publishing themselves and get *all* the proceeds for *all* the hard work.
My book went on Smashwords three days ago, should be on Amazon in about a week or two.
A lot of the people who wouldn't self-publish don't really seem to understand what is meant "now." Someone mentioned vanity publishing, for instance.
Vanity publishing is where you pay someone lots of money to publish your book. Self-publishing is where you publish it yourself.
Self-publishing costs are low. I know three different cover artists, one doing covers for $80 an hour (between 1 to 3 hours per cover) one doing covers for $150 no matter how long it takes.
Editing costs vary, between $20 to $60 an hour, with the amount of hours involved varying, too. It depends how much your book needs edited. Critique groups and beta readers will keep costs down.
It is viable, not too expensive, and can make you a lot of money. (Maybe). Just look at Amanda Hocking, who makes $10,000 a month and had a self-pubbed book go into Amazon in the top 25 books.
Smashwords will publish anything, but a lot of people don't know that their is a minimum quality requirement (for example, a crappy photoshop cover done by the artist won't pass) before Amazon or anywhere else will take on your e-book.
Some people mentioned Lulu (little more than a vanity publisher) or Create Space. You'd be better off going with Lightning Source, but why not keep it e. Ebooks have taken over print sales on Amazon.
I'm fairly amazed at the poll's results. A year ago far more people would not have considered self-publishing.
Seems to me the unsuccess (I won't use the word 'failure') of a novel is based on 2 factors:
1) Quality
2) Marketability
(I'm deliberately ignoring the query system)
There appears to be an ugly muddying of the two which taints both e/Self Publishing AND the mainstream publishing industry itself.
Rejection on 1 factor DOES NOT implicitly imply the other. It doesn't mean that all rejected manuscripts are just drek, and that e-pub will be awash with unedited, unreadable pap. However, it also doesn't mean that all rejected manuscripts deserve a chance on the open market. Go to Authonomy if you don't believe me.
Both reasons are very seperate, and both potentially fatal to any hopes of traditional publishing. e-publishing solves the problem of marketability. We have yet to find a solid, provable measure of quality.
For poetry, I think self-publishing is a viable option; most poetry publishers are independent or micro-publishers offering editing and design to the end product, but little in the way of promotion. Plus there's a grand heritage of self-publishing - some big names have put their hands in their own pockets to finance their first books.
On the novel side of things, I'm not so convinced. Reading a novel is a much more time consuming endeavour for the average reader, and they don't want to waste their time (or money) on an unknown, unrecommended book. Without name recognition, reviews or word-of-mouth recommendations from friends, readers are highly unlikely to press the buy button.
I've successfully self-published in the form of newspaper serial stories, but that was because (1) I was able to work profit-sharing deals with highly qualified artists rather than pay them a lump sum up front, and (2) I was well-established in the world of newspapers in education so I had a strong edge in marketing to a very tight-knit professional community. (Notice I haven't said a thing about quality of writing.)
I've thought about self-publishing in books, but I don't have the kind of platform you need to be able to get a book into the stores, the schools, the libraries and ultimately the hands of individual readers. I know a teacher who is quite successful at this -- she's talented, but she's also energetic and well-connected in the right places.
What I'd like -- and this is pure fantasy, but it's what it takes -- is to find someone who shared my vision of what matters and how to say it, and also has that access to the stores, libraries and schools.
Which is why there are agents and publishers. Any fool can hit a "print" button these days. It's what comes next that matters.
I think I would go with self-publishing but with some caveats. I would absolutely work with a freelance, reputable editor to make sure my work was tight. No type of publishing can help a bad story.
I would absolutely set aside budget and time to work with a PR person. I've my own marketing/design firm, so I can manage large-scale projects, but I would essentially create a team around me to replace what publishers "should" be doing. PR, event planning, social media planning and monitoring, etc. With the advent of e-books, I'd try to corner that market first before handling distribution of printed copies.
After having been rejected for 2 years now, I am in the process of self-publishing with someone local to me who happens to have started a publishing company of her own because of the frustration of being passed over by the traditional publishing route.
This is similar to me to the discussion last week on banned books - just because you are rejected doesn't mean it isn't good. Maybe it's not banning a book, but an agent is preventing it from being published. That agent is not the end all of getting published. It's just their opinion. It feels like you're being banned and it's because of the opinion of one person.
I happen to think the agents I have queried just don't get my book. I find it stunning how agents who sell books for middle grade kids don't remember what it was like to think like one. The publisher I'm working with likes the story even though she doesn't quite get it, and has even complimented me on the main character's name. She is a published writer as well, of a middle-grade book but her sensibilities are very different from mine. It doesn't stop her from recognizing good writing and seeing potential.
I did not want to go through getting a license and all the paperwork required to sell on my own, but I have had too many people who know about my book and want it not to. I can't help it if agents are running scared because of the changes and don't consider it a sure thing.
The marketing aspect of selling books suck royal, which is why I had hoped to get an agent, but in the end, I'll end up doing it myself and not have to pay someone else who's heart isn't in it. I've sold ads for newspapers before, so I know what I have to do. That helps, but doesn't mean I wanted to do it.
I didn't vote in the poll because none of them are quite right - I am ABOUT to be self-published which means yes, but doesn't mean I would NEVER consider traditional. Kind of silly to make that a caveat to say yes.
If an agent calls me after I sell a million, he/she will be soundly rejected.
I'm just glad there are other viable options nowadays, and I think the world is big enough for more than one model.
For me, I already have a career. Writing fiction is something I do in my spare time and I like that I can get my writing in front of readers w/out the pains of having to obtain agent/publisher approval. I'd rather readers decide via comments, ratings, etc.
I have read two self-published books. My purchases were based solely on a blog where the author complained that she was not getting a fair shake, that no one understood her, that only crap was being published, that she would have to wait until after her death to achieve fame and distinction. I bought two of her books to give her a fair chance. They were, in a word, awful. I actually threw one out because I would have been embarrassed if someone saw it.
Now does that mean I won't buy another self-published book? Of course not. But I'm going to be a little more skeptical than with something that has been vetted by the traditional publishing model. (And yes, traditionally published books can be a disappointment, can see poorly written, etc, but I have never read any such book that was anywhere near as bad as the self-published ones.) What it would take now is a story that interested me and the ability to see some of the writing--perhaps an excerpt on the author's website or the look inside feature on Amazon. Or the gushing praise of someone I trust.
Dear Nathan,
Your poll is skewed. You can use self-publishing and mainstream publishing for different projects.
That does not make either a side project. A professional speaker I know has sold 27 000 copies of a self-published book. With a book that would never be published mainstream.
I believe you should be flexible to use the system that fits the purpose. Before you can ask if you would self-publish you should ask why and what are you writing.
As a fiction writer, I don't see self-publishing as the way to go. Perhaps if I had a non-fiction project. I have yet to meet someone who has had success with self-publishing. It's still very difficult to get newspapers/TV shows to take you seriously for reviews and promotion.
Although this isn't the case in every situation, I feel that many people choose self-publishing to have the book in their hand and ability to say, "I'm a published author!"
Given the power of internet marketing tools, I can see why many people feel having more control over the destiny of their project is a better choice. Right now, I don't see any self-publishing house that has the distribution power of a traditional house.
If I were an agent I'd be VERY interested in an author who had successfully self-published and sold thousands of ebooks.
Such a person is a self-starter, knows how to take advantage of marketing tools and networking online (and in many cases, has become an expert beyond what can be found within the ranks of traditional publishing staffs), and has built a platform. In short, this person is a real go-getter -- someone who treats publishing as a business.
If there's a stigma to being successful I'm all for having it. Sure, there are many who publish crap, but it doesn't sell (the readers are smart about vetting, and word of mouth is the most powerful sales tool in publishing).
ANY author who is selling thousands of books is legitimate, whether they are self or traditionally pubbed.
Crap doesn't sell, so the self-pubbed authors you see who are highly ranked on Kindle store are selling a marketable product at their price points, the same as the big publishers.
It's like any other product -- quality and value sell. A Porsche by any other name or manufacturer is still a Porsche.
There are plenty of gems in the slush pile. Now the readers find them instead of the industry gatekeepers. Do you have a gem? The fastest way to find out is to put it up on Kindle store (for free - it costs nothing, no ISBN required). Don't wait for a handful of overworked agents to find you after dozens of rejections and years of waiting in their queue.
The paradigm has shifted. Indies are the new midlist.
At this point I don't think I'd consider self-publishing, but ask me if in a year or two; If I still haven't sold the book, I might think differently then.
I believe self-publishing is changing the landscape of the publishing business, although I don't think it is or ever will be the death knell for traditional publishing.
For me, it all depends on how I feel about my marketing skills. If I don't think I can successfully market my book on my own, I'll probably seek traditional publishing. Although I suppose I could hire a marketing team even if I self-publish.
And, Nathan, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the ideological tenor of the debate. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm starting to think that a person can't have an opinion on anything anymore without it turning into a fiery festival of fetid foul-mouthery. Breaks my heart.
Self-publishing reeks of the stigma of "not good enough for traditional publishers." And whether or not that's true, who wants their book associated with that? I don't see how that negative connotation is going to improve when more people are self-publishing e-books.
I have nothing against the people that do it. I'm sure there are many, many great books out there that were published that way but I don't have the time to be the filter, and my guess is the majority of people out there don't have that kind of time either.
I think it's important to note that author Alex Beecroft, who commented above and talked about her self-published book, has garnered an excellent reputation as an author, gained a great deal of respect and admiration from her peers, and has built a good fan base within her genre.
Along with thousands of other readers, I'm a huge fan of her books.
Boy, do I hate it when folks publish as "Anonymous" -- especially when their post is excellent. Kudos to the person who wrote this b/c u nailed it:
Anonymous said...
If I were an agent I'd be VERY interested in an author who had successfully self-published and sold thousands of ebooks.
Such a person is a self-starter, knows how to take advantage of marketing tools and networking online (and in many cases, has become an expert beyond what can be found within the ranks of traditional publishing staffs), and has built a platform. In short, this person is a real go-getter -- someone who treats publishing as a business.
If there's a stigma to being successful I'm all for having it. Sure, there are many who publish crap, but it doesn't sell (the readers are smart about vetting, and word of mouth is the most powerful sales tool in publishing).
ANY author who is selling thousands of books is legitimate, whether they are self or traditionally pubbed.
Crap doesn't sell, so the self-pubbed authors you see who are highly ranked on Kindle store are selling a marketable product at their price points, the same as the big publishers.
It's like any other product -- quality and value sell. A Porsche by any other name or manufacturer is still a Porsche.
There are plenty of gems in the slush pile. Now the readers find them instead of the industry gatekeepers. Do you have a gem? The fastest way to find out is to put it up on Kindle store (for free - it costs nothing, no ISBN required). Don't wait for a handful of overworked agents to find you after dozens of rejections and years of waiting in their queue.
The paradigm has shifted. Indies are the new midlist.
I've published more than one way. I've done 'work for hire', sold tens of thousands of books that way, and also self-published. I also have an agent, a top name one at that, who shopped one of my books around to endless praise, but no takers. It's now self-published to great reviews and many happy readers. And isn't that what it's all about? Getting READERS is much more important to me than getting a fancy contract.
I find the objections to self-publishing silly for a variety or reasons, but since I am a full-time, fully self-supporting freelance writer, I'm perhaps more used than some other writers to seeing my work as a business. Here's some points to consider:
Even if you are traditionally published, you still have to handle most of your own promotion, especially if you are relatively unknown.
You can get world class editing and design services with self-publishers, and you should use those services.
You can also get complete distribution services onto all the usual outlets with self-publishing.
Too many writers I've met through my own MFA program and teaching in one are so starry eyed about being 'discovered' and thinking that's all it takes. It's your work and you have to work it no matter what way you get published.
Yes? . . . No? . . . Maybe? . . . Hell, I don't know.
I like it because it enables me to have the book exactly as I wish. I'm very good at photoshop and do my own covers, also good at In-Design so can easily do the layout work. I use Lulu as (so far) it's the least intrusive and doesn't seem to have any bad stuff like "vanity publishers" do. Lulu also enables me to get onto Amazon and Barnes & Noble which is excellent. I get good raoyalites and can set my own prices. It also enables me to put the books out as e-books.
What do I miss? Help with advertising and distribution ... but unless I was very well known it seems to me that I wouldn't get much help and would still be expected to do lots of my own footwrok whilst having to put up with covers and layout I don't like.
For a small-time author, my books sell quite well and I get good library fees too so people are reading them and this is the main thing I want ... to be read. Oh yes, I'd love to have JK Rowling's money, don't get me wrong LOL, but I have to write what I lvoe, what I read, what makes me write. I can't write to a formula that is not my own so I'm probably best off doing it this way.
I realise though that folks without my graphic and layout skills can have problems working with something like Lulu.
I fell that the publishing world is changing, the old ways of the publisher being "in charge" are going, the internet is making everything change. I keep a regular watch on how things are going, with lots of interest. It's exciting and sometimes scary ... but then, all change is *g*.
Dawn Maria said...
As a fiction writer, I don't see self-publishing as the way to go. Perhaps if I had a non-fiction project. I have yet to meet someone who has had success with self-publishing. It's still very difficult to get newspapers/TV shows to take you seriously for reviews and promotion.
JK Rowling began this way, and she's by no means the only one.
This whole sell-it-yourself trend took place in my field of stock illustration several years ago when I was just starting out. The professionals were angry that we, the unchosen and unedited, might ruin the industry by selling crappy, unprofessional stock art at low prices. Wars of words were fought over the internet on blogs and forums for years. And in the beginning, I'm not going to lie, the sell-it-yourself art (called microstock) was a little rough around the edges (especially mine). But eventually, everyone who jumped on board the controversial trend refined their craft. And soon clients started buying. They didn't care about the stigma, they bought what they liked. Now the website were I began selling my really awful illustrations 7 years ago IS the mainstream. And I'm a better & more successful illustrator for participating.
In the same vein, I think self-publishing is a wonderful option. It's nice to let creativity run wild, whether you're an exceptional writer or not. No one needs to tell you if your work is bad or good if you love what your doing. It's art. I believe self-publishing is a great way to share and experience raw material. Many people will have something wonderful to share and many will be a little rough around the edges but that what's wonderful about being unedited. Many writer's will take the extra step to learn to market themselves, and I believe it's those people who will push this trend to mainstream b/c readers don't need publishers to choose reading material for them. They'll buy what they like.
If you haven't noticed, the whole world is becoming unedited.
This whole sell-it-yourself trend took place in my field of stock illustration several years ago when I was just starting out. The professionals were angry that we, the unchosen and unedited, might ruin the industry by selling crappy, unprofessional stock art at low prices. Wars of words were fought over the internet on blogs and forums for years. And in the beginning, I'm not going to lie, the sell-it-yourself art (called microstock) was a little rough around the edges (especially mine). But eventually, everyone who jumped on board the controversial trend refined their craft. And soon clients started buying. They didn't care about the stigma, they bought what they liked. Now the website were I began selling my really awful illustrations 7 years ago IS the mainstream. And I'm a better & more successful illustrator for participating.
In the same vein, I think self-publishing is a wonderful option. It's nice to let creativity run wild, whether you're an exceptional writer or not. No one needs to tell you if your work is bad or good if you love what your doing. It's art. I believe self-publishing is a great way to share and experience raw material. Many people will have something wonderful to share and many will be a little rough around the edges but that what's wonderful about being unedited. Many writer's will take the extra step to learn to market themselves, and I believe it's those people who will push this trend to mainstream b/c readers don't need publishers to choose reading material for them. They'll buy what they like.
If you haven't noticed, the whole world is becoming unedited.
I get that self-publishing is a way to get your story out there and that some authors are frustrated, but it feels like it limits your options. I guess if it's with a reputable source it can be a positive experience, but, I don't know, it doesn't seem right for me.
but it feels like it limits your options.
It doesn't. Even agents (like Nathan) are now saying that they'll look at self-pubbed seriously.
Self-publishing does not close the door to a traditional contract, and it may in fact enhance your chances of landing "the big one" (whatever that is).
I tried the traditional approach in '09. After twenty-five agent rejections (with some interest) I decided to self-publish. I have two books out on every ereader format known to science as well as POD. My third novel will come out before Christmas.
For me it came down to a matter of time. I want to write books, not queries! I don't mind running a webpage or using facebook to build a presence. I've learned to write my own press releases and seek reviews. Now I concentrate on writing novels and yes, my writing is good. Readership will come with time.
Sorry, Nathan.
Glad you flagged me. I wanted to take it down but didn't know how.
What I worry about with self-publishing is that there are a lot of passionate people out there writing what they think is excellent work, but may in fact have issues they can not see. I've read MS from people that are absolutely sure that the only reason they are not published is because of some conspiracy of the publishing world to lock them out. They can not admit that it might be the quality of their work that needs improvement. I can easily see these people spending a lot of money to self-publish. Money they don't have.
While believing in your writing is necessary no matter what avenue to publication you pursue, I know I value an unbiased, professional opinion.
I would rather publish traditionally, for the validation and distribution, but I'm getting more and more excited about the notion of self-publishing. Indeed, I find myself eager to exhaust my list of prospective agents so that I can get on with self-publishing my work. It's a nutty sensation to think, "C'mon agent, hurry up and reject me already; I've got a book to publish and promote."
One poster commented as follows: "Um, if I don't find a traditional publisher interested, it probably means my book sucks."
"probably" is the key word. There are plenty of books out there that don't "suck" but never make it through traditional channels because the industry doesn't deem them, ex ante, profitable. The fact that Snookie and Justin Beiber have book deals is the anecdotal evidence that the industry has less to do with literary merit and more to do with turning a profit. I don't fault the agents and editors for that practical reality. They are, after all, in business. That doesn't mean they always make good calls though either. Look at all the rejections Robert Pirsig or Joseph Heller got before the value of their work was ultimately recognized by the industry. So, c'mon agents, hurry up and reject me already. I've got stuff to do.
For my weird format projects (e.g. series of 5 novellas in the same fantasy setting, but from different POVs), I'm definitely considering it. I also want to do a webcomic at some point.
I have more regular novel and graphic novel projects that I would try to get traditionally published, though.
I'm very very tempted by self publishing. I love the control and the marketing aspect, and the 70% royalty. At the moment though I'm still going for traditional. As a beginning writer, I need the street cred.
Going off on a hypothetical now. Say in the future, many authors go the JA Konrath route -- self publishing, but still having an agent who sells foreign rights, audio rights, movie rights, etc. In that case, would the agent compensation model have to change? It would make much sense for an agent to spend much time on editing a manuscript if they're not going to be selling the main rights, does it?
By the way, for those that think self-publishing has a stigma, well, I'd just say that it didn't hurt, oh, Edgar Allen Poe, Virginia Woolf, Walt Whitman, the dude who wrote that bloody book about the white whale....the list is endless.
Traditional publishing is no more a guarantee of quality than self-publishing is a sign of crud.
After all, in the movie world, they call them "indies" and they are a badge of courage!
I may try self-publishing when the e-book aspect becomes more developed, but for now, it's just not a possibility. I'm a student and there's no way I could afford it. I also think I need the support system of an agent, editor, publisher, etc., especially because I'm a little younger and haven't learned enough about the business yet. Kudos to those brave enough to self publish, though!
I was initially considering self publishing for a niche non-fiction project (before I got into fiction writing, which is taking my book writing time). Now, I might consider it for a short story/poetry collection at some point, because it's hard to get publishers for those. Poetry especially, it's considered normal to self-publish collections once you've had some success in magazines.
Novels... no. If my current one doesn't sell, I'll write another one. I want all the shiny stuff that professional publishers provide, like getting into book stores and major review outlets.
@AndrewDugas
About e-pubbing: Nathan's post didn't qualify what type of self-publishing. My reply covered hard print books only. Sorry I didn't make that clear. And yes, I do remember James Redfield's "The Celestine Prophesy." A hard-print, self pub to standard pub anomaly at the time... a huge success.
But that's hardly the norm. I've watched first-time authors go through the (hard print) process of self publishing with complete confidence at the outset, only to become disillusioned, frustrated, and angry later on. It is a huge undertaking in many respects. I only hope that anyone considering hard-print self publishing takes the time to research every aspect of it to prepare oneself for becoming something other than just an author.
One author I know blindly assumed that once her book was in print she would become an instant success. I even asked her what her marketing plan was, to which she answered, "I'll figure that out when I get there."
A lot of first-time authors have lots of confidence, which is great. I only hope they research ask around and study the heck out of the possibility of self pubbing hard copy so they know before hand what they are getting into.
One thing in self publishing via vanity press (someone else printing for you) is that they will often tell you what you want to hear; that your work deserves to be published. Go figure... they want your work, your money. Some offer editing services that you will have to pay for. Some don't care and will print whatever copy you give them. There are many more steps in the pubbing process, all of which require the author's input, either by providing the material or specs required, or by paying someone else to provide them.
It's the first-time authors I have the most concern for. Just make sure before hand what you're getting into. :)
@Del
Well said. I agree!
I agree that there is a lot of work to promoting your own book. But my understanding from the agent query process is that self promotion is now expected in the traditional world as well.
In my own case, I rather start getting books out now, while I continue to produce my urban fantasy series. Planting seeds takes patience, but an ebook out in distribution is always there, waiting. Building pathways to that book is not hard, and those paths get thicker and more numerous with time. My expectations are moderate, my goal is to just to build readership.
I'll pursue any path that'll get my stories in front of readers. That's my primary concern as a writer--to be read. Few readers care which publisher's icon is on the book spine; they want to read good stories. If it's paperback, ebook, hardcover, traditional publishing, self publishing, chapbooks, whatever. I'm open to any option.
Technology in this day and age is sufficient that not every writer has to subscribe to the traditional NYC bottleneck to get their stories in print and read.
Also want to note that the original post contains a somewhat innaccurate assumption--not everyone who self-publishes will have an unedited book. There are very good freelance editors out there who will do a professional job at a reasonable price. For self-publishers, it may be a worthwhile investment to help your book rise above and find more readers.
I supposed I'm a dinosaur. I feel editors and agents have a job for a reason, and conversely I assume I get a rejection for a reason. If I get lots of rejections, I can assume it's also for a good reason. I'm still unpublished and terrified of submitting, mostly because I believe if I receive rejection upon rejection, my worst fears are confirmed: I love writing, but I'm no good at it.
Having an editor tell me they like my manuscript and will devote time and money to it sends the message that they think my writing and my story are worth it.
Of course this is all conjecture, because I'm a coward. ; )
To each his own. Who are we to judge? I am trying to the traditional route, but if it doesn't work, I will self-publish. And I will do everything possible to sell my work!
At the end of the day, I remind myself of some very soothing comments from some very wonderful authors.
"Write like there is no tomorrow, and write only for yourself!" Loriann Hemingway
"Write the story you wanna read!" Guest speaker-2010 NJSCBWI
I'm waiting for the blog post about B&N's new self-pub program, "PubIt."
My mom sent me a link to their page this morning (I'd already read about it), and I had to email her back the many reasons to avoid it. However, as the future progresses, who knows?
I think the wise approach is to take it book by book. Get the best deal you can for each book, period. If that best deal happens to be an Amazon marketplace Kindle contract, then that's what you do. If it's a 7-figure advance from 1 of the Big 6, then that's what you do.
As soon as you release one book, move on to the next.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/5/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: Life of a Writer, Add a tag
The Beatles have been endlessly analyzed and discussed and written about, and even today the Lennon/McCartney partnership is one we are still pondering. But the element of their greatness that Malcolm Gladwell touches on in OUTLIERS, and the one that I'm most interested in, is the extent to which the Beatles were, well, also fanatical workaholics.
Early in their career they played over 1,200 times in four years in Hamburg, Germany, all the while writing songs and practicing. Their greatness didn't just spring forth: they worked and worked and worked and worked some more. The sheer body of work they produced is staggering, particularly when you consider they broke up before John Lennon had even turned 30.
And yet you never see a hint of the incredible and tedious hard work behind the music and fun in "A Hard Day's Night," nor, really, any work about creative geniuses (save perhaps for the great "Barton Fink," that great ode to writer's block, and a few other exceptions). The songs and novels and plays always seem to spring out from the great artist fully formed. Maybe we see that classic Eurkea moment, but then the artist scurries off to craft their work in a quick montage, or we cut straight to the book coming out.
What's funny about this is that artists themselves participate in the illusion of effortlessness, probably because artists and storytellers recognize that the truth is boring: working very very hard and practicing a very very long time is not the stuff that great stories are made of.
In the case of "A Hard Day's Night," the truth is that the title song was mainly written in a single night by John Lennon, which is amazing enough on its own. But to watch the movie it seems the Beatles spend all of their time having adventures, flirting with girls, and spontaneously playing their fully-formed music. I can't help but think of the time they spent off the screen to make the illusion possible.
And with these stories and movies in our heads, when we read the magic on the page in a book and it flows so smoothly and effortlessly, it's easy to forget the hard day's year that went into it.
I adored this post and believe in your point wholeheartedly. I think Gladwell says it takes a million hours to really master something.
Reminds me of the story of a Chinese artist who charged a pretty penny penny for a drawing of a cat. The buyer balked because it took the artist less than a minute to dash it off.
The artist said, "You're paying for the years it took me to learn to do such a clever drawing in such a short time.
It takes many hours and dedication to be an artist. As others have noted, it's no guarantee of success. True, but when you go that deeply into the art form the success is in the doing, not the results.
We worked hard. We used to have to battle sometimes with the engineers and sometimes with George Martin, to make them stay beyond six or seven in the evening. We’d start at one or two in the afternoon and work right through ‘til one or two in the morning.
- George Harrison
The main thing was never to accept the obvious, never to accept second-best, and always to look beyond what’s there.
- George Martin
And remember, right through Sgt. Pepper's they were working with just four tracks. Which meant getting the tracks right before bouncing them 'cause there'd be no going back and fixing a flaw the next day without doing everything over again.
To the first Anon that got all upset because Nathan used a band he/she didn't care for as an example: Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you didn't read the post.
Mr. Bransford was not saying that "The Beatles" are the greatest band ever and we must all listen to them. He was making a comparison between the portrayal that their music was effortless with the similarities in our views of authors.
Moral of the story: Hard Work pays off. NOT: You suck if you don't like The Beatles.
I often use Stephen King as an example of effort = accomplishment, but I'm not saying everyone has to love his work.
I was never a Beatles fan either, but I enjoyed your post, Nathan.
Why, thankee kindly, Picasso-Yoda-Anon. You just brightened my day.
And maybe I should start marketing a writing chronometer? A nice bell will go off every thousand hours of writing, and at 10,000 hours little streams of confetti will pop out and Queen's We Are the Champions will start playing.
I read a Danielle Steel interview this week in Time Magazine where she made all her work look effortless. And I'm sure it wasn't that way at all...especially with nine kids.
I had the nicest compliment from a friend about my writing: "It seems so easy and effortless."
I laughed. A lot.
One time I smoked pot while at my Chinese restaurant job (sooooooo long ago) and boy did I work hard! I was a working fool. Scrubbing tables, bring people their orders, working the register....
Hee Hee.
Actually, this is a true story. I was in college once. Don't consider myself having had a drug habit, though.
Also, just don't get how one can NOT like the Beatles. At least some of their music. Blackbird? All You Need is Love? Hey Jude?
What does Malcolm Gladwell say? To be great at something you need to put in 10,000 hours of practice/work? Am I right? I'm way behind, I think. Waaaaay behind.
Non writers ask me about writing all the time. And my most frequent answer is "it's often boring and it's a lot of work."
abc: Ironically enough I don't really like The Beatles or Aerosmith but I ADORE Aerosmith's cover of "Come Together."
I have no idea why. :)
Recently, Abbott recalled a large amount of baby formula because there were beetles in it...
Help! Everything's gone Helter Skelter. Imagine, a Beatle in the formula. Yesterday was just A Day in the Life for Abbott, but now the have to Carry That Weight, the media just won't Let It Be. Infants can't quit formula Cold Turkey, you know, we would see babies detoxing Here, There, and Everywhere. We need to Come Together and find a solution, not start a Revolution. We Can Work it Out.
The End.
The drug talk cracks me up. Stephen King admits to extensive addiction. He also admits to an incredible hours writing. The two are not mutually exclusive.
For the love of God, it's ZeppElin, and mentioning them in the same sentence as T-Rex is an abomination.
The Beatles are J.K. Rowling...really amazing popular stuff.
Led Zeppelin is Cormac McCarthy...really amazing heavy stuff.
Let the masses decide who is better, or if they're each untouchable in their own way.
Either way, no slackers here.
Yes, or maybe a hard few years!
I love love love the Beatles, especially loved Lennon. True genius songwriter. Not too many come close... maybe Eddie Vedder, Scot Weiland, um Alanis Morisette?
I've seen documentaries over the years that say how much and how hard they worked. I've also heard people say that they don't get why the Beatles were so big. I say you had to have lived in those times or to know the history of music to understand. I lived through it and it's my memory that their (later) lyrics were the first to have a voice of their own.
They had a great exhibit of Michelangelo sketches in Seattle a while back. Apparently his sketches are rare since he burned most of them. He wanted to foster the idea that his monumetal works sprung fully formed from him, and was pretty successful at this by only leaving behind his finished work.
Not true though, he worked indredibly hard to get there, genius notwithstanding. If Michelangelo had to work so dang hard, I got no excuse.
Here's a post about Danielle Steel's obsessive work habits:
http://daniellesteel.net/blog/2009/02/writing/
And Dean Koontz supposedly never takes a vacation.
Brooklyn Ann said: "Moral of the story: Hard Work pays off."
I am the Anon @2:42 PM. That's how I interpreted the meaning of Nathan's original post. And I disagree. SOMETIMES hard work pays off; sometimes it doesn't. In this economy, it often does not. In this same economy, there are a few best-selling authors who have bragged online about how they wrote their novels in only three weeks or how they write popular genres and don't ever plan to emulate great literary writing. Lots of people who work very, very hard - sometimes holding down three jobs just to get by - don't succeed. Sometimes people who work MUCH less hard but accomplish something very popular, succeed big-time. It might make us feel better to believe that "Hard work pays off," but that isn't how reality always works. Reality is much more complicated than that.
And, for the record, I love the Beatles' music.
The fact that one anonymous crank doesn't like the Beatles is no reason to let him/her screw up a perfectly fine blog post and comments thread.
A short list: Musicians often talk about how difficult Beatles songs are to play, because some of the chord progressions are so uncommon.
Sgt. Peppers incorporated roots influences, Indian music, avant-garde electronics, classical, music hall, and more.
George Harrison introduced the Indian sitar to the song "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)."
In 1965 -- less than ten years after Bill Haley's "Rock Around the Clock" -- the Beatles incorporated a string quartet on 1965's "Yesterday," and many other bands of the time followed suit.
"Penny Lane" contains a prominent piccolo trumpet inspired by a performance of Bach's second Brandenburg Concerto
They used "text painting," which goes back to the Renaissance but is relatively uncommon in rock music.
White Album included everything from blues-rock to vaudeville.
It's facile to say you don't like them. But let's hear it from a more objective source, like the All Music Guide, which is basically synthesizing of 40+ years of Beatles' critical reception:
"... they were the greatest and most influential act of the rock era, and introduced more innovations into popular music than any other rock band of the 20th century."
My favorite movie writing scene is in Amadeus. Mozart is has his papers spread out on the pool table, and he's bouncing a ball around the sides without looking up from the manuscript he's writing. Then his dad comes to his apartment, and gets in a big fight with his wife--situation hopeless. Mozart just leaves, goes into the room with the pool table, shuts the door, and goes right back to sending the ball around the table and writing. It's not about effort so much as concentration.
What a great post, Nathan! I'll show my age and tell you that I saw that movie when it was first released in the early sixties. I was fourteen or fifteen at the time, and I played in a band. The music the Beatles were writing was so different from everything else that was out there: minor seventh chords, progressions different from the typical 1-4-5 with a 2-minor. It was fresh and different and wonderful, and they certainly changed the music industry with their innovative writing.
Was it hard work? I'm sure it was. But I highly doubt that they complained about it, since it was something they loved and something they were obviously quite good at. Genius has a tendency of making the difficult appear effortless.
As I grew older I developed an interest in art and became, finally, a nationally distributed wildlife artist. I was a painter. When invited to the National Wildlife Art Show as an exhibitor, I saw another artist who specialized in woodcarving. His ducks were the most realistic I had ever seen. I told him I was absolutely amazed at his talent. He told me it was actually quite easy to do. When I questioned this he said, "You just start with a big piece of wood and carve off everything that doesn't look like a duck."
So there you have my two cents worth. I'll end this by saying that I did have one of those collarless jackets that the Beatles wore in that film. I was going to put it on Ebay and see what I could get for it. My wife informed me that she had taken it to Goodwill a long, long time ago.
Drat the luck. Another investment down the drain.
Keep up the great posts. I enjoy reading you.
Very much agreed. I think this can lead us to be much harder on ourselves, especially if we look at our first drafts and think they're crap. We read a good book and just imagine the words pouring out of the author, maybe knowing but not really believing that rounds of revisions went into them.
As for the Beatles/drugs argument: Yes, they used drugs. A lot of them. A LOT of them. Yes, this probably informed a good portion of their creativity. The point about them playing a lot of shows still stands, though. That is a lot of work, even if they enjoyed it and/or were stoned out of their minds.
Wow! The B's used drugs! Who knew? Like people who do/did/will don't work hard too? Not condoning abuse, but guys, really! Besides, I think the point of Nathan's story was creativity ain't easy. On or off drugs. Anybody who argues against that, isn't. Working creatively that is.
You had me at "Beatles." :)
Amen on the hard work bottom line and I second the "concentration" comment someone made a few above mine.
I grew up listening to the Beatles, so they definitely massaged my neurons into some interesting configurations. On a related, but different topic, does anyone know why you can't find any Beatles in the iTunes Store? Or any other "older" music for that matter. I don't get it.
FYI - John Lennon's 70th birthday is this Saturday and there are all sorts of celebrations/memorials happening on radio, TV, online.
RE ; Cathy at 6:25. I too LOVE the film Amadeus .
Remembering the scene where Salieri is reading through Amadeus' music with the comment that it appeared written entirely without mistake or correction- " as if he were merely taking dictation !"
A heavenly movie .
Nathan
Point well made and taken.
Aside from amphetamines and alcohol, I think the Beatles "fun" drug use came much late than "Hard Days Night". Anyone who reads about the Hamburg years would not envy them this trial by fire.
Ringo had a Yogi Berra-esque talent for coining off-handedly brilliant non-sequitors. The phrase "A Hard Days Night" was one of his, spoken just as the film was being wrapped-up, and Lennon wrote the title song based on it.
"Eight Days A Week" was another.
dylan
The Beatles used Prellies (stimulants) in Hamburg--so that they could play hours on end.
Their success was due to a combination of factors, but I'm sure their hard work learning their craft played a part.
"Rock on, George, for Ringo one time!"
Workaholic is not the best noun to describe the trait of The Beatles compassion. It suggests their success can be achieved by anyone subscribing to an earnest devotion to discipline, which is not the case.
The reason the movie was seen as a portrayal of a so called illusion of frivolous behavior is because it existed. Lennon had convinced the other lads that they had a voice to exercise; a craft to hone; a statement to be made.
They spent time wanting to perfect a cultural stimulant which was instinctively apparent in the quartet's persona. It was a euphoria aspired by this accomplishment that drove them. They then celebrated the achievement as an extension of that goal.
The end result was repelled by the mediocrity of conformed thinking, and accepted by the consciousness of progressive thought.
Where does that energy exist today?
Thanks for this interesting post, Nathan! I, too, have read heaps written by them and about them. And one thing shines out: Lennon, especially, was aufait with the power of the mind. He would get the boys chanting: 'Where are we going? To the toppermost of the poppermost!' And he was quoted as saying they were the best band in the world because they thought they were. Or something similiar to that. Another quote from Lennon I like is one sometimes mentioned by Yoko: 'We all want to save the world. It's just the people we can't stand.' Yoko cited this as an example of John's ability to say what everyone else was thinking but didn't dare say.
And, yes, the hours worked while they were in Hamburg at the beginning of their career was phenomenal. John often mentioned he was married to the Beatles, more so than to his first wife, Cynthia.
It always amazes me to hear someone diss the Beatles. They managed to change the music from simpering canned studio songs which were prevalent in the early sixties to songs that actually showed incredible musical proficiency and imagination.
As Nathan said, they worked hard for their success, something some of the less-talented bands that followed tried to emulate. These four musicians had a tremendous impact on the youth of that time.
There's no comparison between the Beatles and some of the groups the original 'anon' mentioned. As always, it's easy to be a critic when you hide behind the anonymous moniker.
Different choices for different tastes, but don't knock what you don't really understand.
"I think you'll be successful, because what you're doing looks really tedious."
LOL!
That bodes well for me, then!
LOL, Anon, you weren't the one I was referring to, it was the first one who said they didn't like the Beatles. "finding them neither genius nor tolerable."
I see that you were the one going off on the drug use.
On that, drugs don't necessarily incapacitate one from working/ functioning.
And as for your recent argument, sure there are such things as "one hit wonders" but how many of these so-called "I wrote this in 3 weeks" people actually STAY successful?
Actually, the book OUTLIERS by Malcolm Gladwell supports many of the Anon comments. Here's the official Editorial Reviews on Amazon:
AMAZON.COM REVIEW:
Now that he's gotten us talking about the viral life of ideas and the power of gut reactions, Malcolm Gladwell poses a more provocative question in Outliers: why do some people succeed, living remarkably productive and impactful lives, while so many more never reach their potential? Challenging our cherished belief of the "self-made man," he makes the democratic assertion that superstars don't arise out of nowhere, propelled by genius and talent: "they are invariably the beneficiaries of hidden advantages and extraordinary opportunities and cultural legacies that allow them to learn and work hard and make sense of the world in ways others cannot." Examining the lives of outliers from Mozart to Bill Gates, he builds a convincing case for how successful people rise on a tide of advantages, "some deserved, some not, some earned, some just plain lucky.
Outliers can be enjoyed for its bits of trivia, like why most pro hockey players were born in January, how many hours of practice it takes to master a skill, why the descendents of Jewish immigrant garment workers became the most powerful lawyers in New York, how a pilots' culture impacts their crash record, how a centuries-old culture of rice farming helps Asian kids master math. But there's more to it than that. Throughout all of these examples--and in more that delve into the social benefits of lighter skin color, and the reasons for school achievement gaps--Gladwell invites conversations about the complex ways privilege manifests in our culture. He leaves us pondering the gifts of our own history, and how the world could benefit if more of our kids were granted the opportunities to fulfill their remarkable potential. --Mari Malcolm
From the PUBLISHERS WEEKLY REVIEW:
In the end it is the seemingly airtight nature of Gladwell's arguments that works against him. His conclusions are built almost exclusively on the findings of others—sociologists, psychologists, economists, historians—yet he rarely delves into the methodology behind those studies. And he is free to cherry-pick those cases that best illustrate his points; one is always left wondering about the data he evaluated and rejected because it did not support his argument, or perhaps contradicted it altogether. Real life is seldom as neat as it appears in a Malcolm Gladwell book.
Actually, the book OUTLIERS by Malcolm Gladwell supports many of the Anon comments. Here's the official Editorial Reviews on Amazon:
AMAZON.COM REVIEW:
Now that he's gotten us talking about the viral life of ideas and the power of gut reactions, Malcolm Gladwell poses a more provocative question in Outliers: why do some people succeed, living remarkably productive and impactful lives, while so many more never reach their potential? Challenging our cherished belief of the "self-made man," he makes the democratic assertion that superstars don't arise out of nowhere, propelled by genius and talent: "they are invariably the beneficiaries of hidden advantages and extraordinary opportunities and cultural legacies that allow them to learn and work hard and make sense of the world in ways others cannot." Examining the lives of outliers from Mozart to Bill Gates, he builds a convincing case for how successful people rise on a tide of advantages, "some deserved, some not, some earned, some just plain lucky.
Outliers can be enjoyed for its bits of trivia, like why most pro hockey players were born in January, how many hours of practice it takes to master a skill, why the descendents of Jewish immigrant garment workers became the most powerful lawyers in New York, how a pilots' culture impacts their crash record, how a centuries-old culture of rice farming helps Asian kids master math. But there's more to it than that. Throughout all of these examples--and in more that delve into the social benefits of lighter skin color, and the reasons for school achievement gaps--Gladwell invites conversations about the complex ways privilege manifests in our culture. He leaves us pondering the gifts of our own history, and how the world could benefit if more of our kids were granted the opportunities to fulfill their remarkable potential. --Mari Malcolm
From the PUBLISHERS WEEKLY REVIEW:
In the end it is the seemingly airtight nature of Gladwell's arguments that works against him. His conclusions are built almost exclusively on the findings of others—sociologists, psychologists, economists, historians—yet he rarely delves into the methodology behind those studies. And he is free to cherry-pick those cases that best illustrate his points; one is always left wondering about the data he evaluated and rejected because it did not support his argument, or perhaps contradicted it altogether. Real life is seldom as neat as it appears in a Malcolm Gladwell book.
Brooklyn Ann -
A number of those writers currently have future book deals and movie deals. We want to believe that those who work the hardest are the ones who succeed. But that's not always the case, as Malcolm Gladwell suggests in OUTLIERS.
Okay, first off, I'm taking a stand here. Excessive drug use: not good for you. Also, getting alot of work done because you are hopped up on stimulants - also not that good for you.
In case anyone wanted some clarification on my postion vis-a-vis excessive drug use and stimulant induced work.
That said, in addition to finding the various anon commentary fairly amusing, I really liked this post. I think it's inspiring. I also agree that master craftsmanship seems effortless. I've realized that whenever I think to myself, "that looks easy, I could do that," there's not a chance in a million that I actually could, and I'm probably gazing at the work of a master.
I agree about working hard, too. I think if you're going to accomplish something truly wonderful, you have to work hard to do that. Hard work, dedication, commitment, discipline - these are all essential.
On the other hand, people really can wear themselves out, and so I think balance is very important, too. When I'm exhausted or worn down or stressed, I find it's really hard to write anything of any quality. So, it's a balance. There's a time to work, and a time to rest. I think they tend to go hand in hand.
Picasso-Anon - thanks for the vote of confidence. :)
Okay, it's been a long, hard day, and I'm off to rest now! Nathan, thank you for the great post.
In the following interview - http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/index.html - Malcolm Gladwell, the author of OUTLIERS, talks about how much the time in history within which a person lives affects the chance that he or she will be successful. To not look at the particular historical time period in which an artist lived is, in my opinion, to ignore a huge part of their true path to success. I'm not sure this is a "wouldn't be successful GAME" - I think, as Gladwell points out, that achieving success is often a very complex event which defies our common beliefs about how it really comes about. Just my two cents.
I agree with Nathan about the hard work and the time it takes, and it's really difficult to explain this to people who keep saying 'haven't you finished it/got it published yet?'
Anonymous discusses (referring to a Malcolm Gladwell interview): 'how much the time in history within which a person lives affects the chance that he or she will be successful.' There's a lot of truth in that, becoming successful is not usually straightforward. Many factors are at work.
If we limit our respect for musicians to only those who were sober, we lose many of the greats. Even Mozart was renowned for his substance abuse, primarily alcohol and opiates, which were most readily available to him.
Pink Floyd ranks as my all-time favorite band. I think Roger Waters has a gift for lyrics. One of my favorite lines is from Echoes:
And through the window in the hall
Comes streaming in on sunlight wings
A million bright ambassadors of morning
WORD VERIFICATION: mingu. A school of higher learning for sci-fi villains, headed by Flash Gordon's nemisis, Ming the Merciless.
This is a really interesting post. I have to laugh often at myself because even though I'm a writer and I KNOW how much work goes into a novel, when I read a great novel, one that tells a great story and feels effortless, I forget what I know and am all but convinced the book flowed from the writer almost directly how I'm reading it. When it feels effortless, it feels effortless, which I think is one of the signs of good writing/storytelling. But I always think, if I, as a writer and knowing what I know about the process, can forget, the average reader must truly have no idea what goes into it.
I love this thought. I think what stops so many people from creating is this mistaken idea that genius just flows, and if it doesn't you have no talent. I know that my writing needs lots of hard work and editing to seem effortless. (or kinda sorta effortless). Thank you for this reminder!
Julie
Hrm, if I had known where the comment conversation was headed, I would have posted this question yesterday before all that kerfluffle. Here's a question I've had for awhile but didn't know how to bring it up without sounding boastful.
Can a prospective writer produce too much? For those agents that invest time to improve the manuscript before submitting to publishers, would a novice author with a high output be less attractive? (This assumes the quality of the work would otherwise incline the agent to offer representation.)
I write two novels a year and hope that's a good thing, but worry maybe it's not.
Hey anon, you're forgetting that a lot of bands used drugs. Just because Kurt Cobain used heroin does that make him any less a musician. His music might have been better had he not used drugs. The Beatles are cool, not the best but certainly not the worst, but they influenced a lot of people. If you're going to be stupid at least refer to people that came out before them, like Jimi Hendrix and Buddy Holly.
joseph-
Quality is the most important thing, but some people are able to turn out multiple quality novels a year. Some take longer. It's really about the end result.
Outliers really shows the importance of work. I was floored by how many hours the Beatles spent playing in that "night club." They had plenty of time to be bad and work out their sound and try new stuff. Being a pro at something does take that time working, practicing, failing, falling down, getting back up and working with even more determination.
I have to shake my head at anon saying that Paul McCartney isn't talented because he's not selling tons of records today. Seriously? He had a very successful solo (and group) career after the Beatles. He's 68. I'd say he's semi-retired. He still packs 'em in for his concerts.
Genius=talent + instruction + tons and tons of work. Think of Mozart. Would he have been the phenomenon that he was if his father had never taught him to play the piano and made him practice endlessly?
There is no substitute for hard work. Wow. I got up on my soapbox a little bit.
Perhaps the mistake I'm making is the presumption of an equal distribution of time among submitted mss. If x number of clients turn in a completed manuscript each year and one of those clients turns in two, then the total time distributed per client's manuscript reduces for all but the two-mss producer, whose total time increases.
I worry about infringing on other people's time. It may be silly, but I worry about that kind of thing.
Love it.
Nathan, I'd bet you're a workaholic. That's okay, experiencing this, it's better than being an alcoholic.
Peter Sellers is dressed as the hunchbacked King Richard III, not Henry V, reciting the lyrics of the song HARD DAY'S NIGHT like a Shakespearian soliloquy in the funny short black and white video. Apologies to all, particularly King Henry V, who might have asked, like Marty Feldman in YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN, 'Hump? What hump?'.
Anonymous 2:59 pm, the Beatles ARE still successful today, two generations after starting out, even though many of their original fans are dead. The Beatles have stood the proverbial test of time.
BTW, if Anons used names, even invented names, like Picasso-Anon, we'd be able to distinguish them easier. Who wants to be just a number?
I'm not a fanatical Beatles fan, but my favorite song they've ever done is, "Blackbird."
Just last night, I was singing the melody while I was cleaning the living room. My two-year-old, who sings a bunch of absolutely adorable, but mostly unintelligible songs, was dancing while I sang.
I started again on the line, "Black bird singing in the dead of night, take these broken wings and learn to fly..." Before I could move on to the next phrase, I heard Elliot sing, "Fly!"
AWWWWW!
Oh Please! the idea of this post is that hard work lies behind any art that looks effortless. The Beatles are just an analogy, replace the beatles with any group that works for you.
lotusgirl -
I never said Paul McCartney isn't talented. Quite the opposite - he's just as talented as he was at the height of his career. My point is that times change, physical appearances change, a nation's interests change. Lots of things other than hard work help create a huge success. Right now, Justin Bieber's name comes up in discussions about popular rock music much more often than Paul McCartney's name does. His talent hasn't changed, but his popularity has. No matter how hard he works right now, he won't be able to capture teenagers' attention the way that Justin Bieber has.
In regard to drugs and rebellion, back in the sixties era, the Beatles' rebellion and drug use actually helped add to their appeal because they spoke to a generation searching for meaning through those avenues. That definitely wouldn't be mainstream today.
Fuzzy Math?
If I add in all the hours I study the craft of writing every day (subtracting the hours I procrastinate)plus the hours I spend reading about the industry (i.e. blogs like this one) to the hours I spend actually writing a book, (including the research and the plotting) does it count towards my 10,000 hours?
(oh no... if an apple is in a bushel on a train, moving at a speed of 34.5 miles an hour and a hungry passenger is in Toledo, when, on Monday, will there be pie for dessert??? or something??? I was never that good at math questions like this! never!)
Here's what I want to know: How hard does Snooki work? That girl is really successful - reality TV show, an MTV spinoff show in the works, AND a book deal for a novel.
Loved the film; loved the band; loved the work ethic; loved the point.
"Genius: one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration." Einstein, Edison, or more likely somebody's mother.
Cheers.
If I remember correctly, it didn't take a long time to make "A Hard Day's Night" either. Something like six weeks, which is record fast for a full length film.
Nathan, one day, when God was sitting around wanting something great to listen to, something a little different from Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and Gershwin, He reached out his hand and the Beatles were created.
And that's all I have to say about that. (Except that Hard Days Night is a great film. The jumping scene is my favorite.)
Dedication Meets Opportunity.
A good tagline for the overall theme.
Or... "Bob Bling 4 Apples." Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/4/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
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I will be out of the office next week, and as we occasionally do on this here blog we'll be having a contest to determine which blogging geniuses will take to the Interwaves to keep us entertained.
There are.... AN UNDISCLOSED number of slots up for grabs. (Undisclosed because I'm not sure yet. Rest assured that it will be a number more than one and less than infinity.)
- Please post your entry as a new topic in the special Guest Blog Contest Festival Event forum. In order to do this, if you have not already been assimilated into the Forums you will need to register. And you should know that assimilation into the Forums is impossible to resist. I will get you eventually, my pretties!
- Please limit yourself to one entry.
- You may enter a post that you submitted for past guest blog contest(s) but it's probably best to send something new.
- Please do not e-mail me your entry.
- I will choose the undisclosed number of best, most helpful, funniest, awesomest posts to run next week and link to the guest blog author's blog or website or Amazon page or favorite charity or what have you. The topic is totally up to you, although some relevancy to this blog's themes will probably receive preference (but not necessarily!).
- Please have your entries posted by Wednesday afternoon, Pacific Time. Winners will be chosen.... sometime after that, depending on my schedule. Announcements will be made.
- Rules and guidelines subject to change without notice. But you knew that.
Good luck!
Do you want something new, or are old posts from our own blogs okay?
Old posts are okay.
May we reference the work of great authors in the past and/or quote them?
This is so cool. Thanks for doing this again. It really lets us see into the minds and thoughts of the reader/writers here. Always enjoyable and often enlightening.
swampfox-
Provided you're not violating copyright, sure.
Why, why do you always do this just when I'm getting ready for another iron butt m'cycle trip? Oh, well. Maybe next time.
You killed my last chance of potential at the word "geniuses".
.
Seriously.
Nathan, I think this is a great idea. Not only because we'll have awesome guest bloggers, but we can also read everyone's submissions in the forum, and maybe discover personal favourites. Thanks for the opportunity. ^^
I'm half tempted. But I'm sure there are much better bloggers than me out there.
Okay! Count me in - right after I think of something genius to write about. ;-)
More than one and less than infinity - ha, ha!
So, oooooooooo, a contest. Fun, fun, fun!!
But Wed.! That's so soon. Just got home from class, late night tomorrow - I'll probably need to cheer other folks on for this one. And cheer I will - guest posts are always fun.
But what's even more important - Nathan's taking a vacation - yay!! Good for you! Go - have fun, rest and relax, you deserve it, Mr. Bransford.
But, then, hurry back!
Oh boy. I would love to get involved but I'm not sure I can take the pressure. Besides, I write really awesome blog posts ... about 5 out of every 100 times.
I'll see if I can come up with something though Nathan, only because you asked.
Sorry, what time tomorrow?
Guest Blogging! Woo hoo! I'm all over this...oh wait. Did you say genius? Egads.
Will a "wannabe genius" blog post work? Do we have to worship the Lakers as a prerequisite for being chosen?
'...assimilation...my pretties.' I have a sudden vision of a huge cube floating over the Emerald City...But I think there's a Biblical injunction against mixing STAR TREK with THE WIZARD OF OZ, like against mixing wool and cotton.
I could send you over three hundred blog posts, but they're all on your blog and forums already!
Changed my mind. I wrote something up. I'm going to edit it, and then post it. It's three pages long. Is that too long?
Don't anyone steal my idea before I post it, okay?
How fun, a contest! Thanks for doing this, Nathan. :)
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 10/1/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
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Phis Teek Wn Iublishing
Page Critique Friday! The page up for critique is up for critique in the Forums for, uh, critique. Check it out here. UPDATE: my critique and some openings to consider avoiding here.
Also, before we get to the links, just a heads up that I'm participating in author Swati Avasthi's charity auction to benefit the Family Violence Prevention Fund. There are lots and lots of great things up for bididng, including many signed copies of great books, and a query critique from yours truly.
Also also, in yesterday's post I reversed the character names in FAT KID RULES THE WORLD. Gah! Please forgive me. Further proof that I need a copyeditor by my side at all times as an urgent public safety precaution.
The Rejectionist is having an incredible uncontest wherein people approximately a million times braver than I are sharing their hilarious/awesome/embarrassing writings from childhood. Head on over to enter yours!
There's a new e-readable tablet on the horizon as Blackberry has introduced the Playbook, which will be released in early 2011. CNET's got the specs along with a guess of pricing between $500-$1,000, and PWxyz has the publishing news: Kobo is planning a social book reading app that will incorporate BlackBerry Messenger, and Amazon announced that it is planning a Kindle app for the Playbook as well.
In other e-reader news, e-book platform Blio, which promises a more interactive e-book experience, was launched amid what PWxyz characterized as a "shakey" debut. Blio is working to fix the issues and will be expanding on its initial slate of 11,000 titles.
And in still further e-reader news, a Scholastic study reported that kids say they would read more if they had an e-reader. Oh yes. I remember that trick. But MOOOOOMMMMM, it's EDUCATIONAL!!! Oh. And the same study suggests that 39% of kids think information on the Internet is "always" correct. Okay, wow. Kids, for the record: there IS a Santa Claus, everything you've read about Chuck Norris is completely true, and JACOB WONDERBAR is a work of nonfiction, so you might want to stock up on corndogs in case a man in a spacesuit comes around willing to trade you a spaceship. Just wanted to clear that up, there's some bad information out there.
In writing and life of the writer news, in an article I agree with 1,000%, author Ann Patchett talks about the primacy of plot, Bryan Russell/Ink talks about choosing what to work on next and relates it to gravity, Tahereh has a hilarious post on the ten phases of rejection, Kate Schafer Testerman tackles one of the oft-asked query etiquette questions:
25 Comments on This Week In Publishing 10/1/10, last added: 10/5/2010
Man, I wish I could enter the Rejectionist uncontest b/c I bet there was some juicy material in my childhood journals. I was a journaling maniac. But you know what? I don't have my childhood journals anymore. And you know why? Because my dad burned them all. Yes, HE BURNED ALL MY JOURNALS. He was in a purging mood and got it into his head that I agreed to it. What the hell? I'm not Jim Morrison.
I still get upset when I think about it. Besides all the fun revisiting I could be doing, that material could be so useful in helping get the voice of YA in my YA writings! Damn you, Dad!
Snooki.
???
Dear God, help us all.
Snooki? Oh dear God.
"In other e-reader news, e-book platform Blio, which promises a more interactive e-book experience"
Is that really what people want? When I read, I want the world to go away; I don't even like the Kindle "feature" that faintly underlines passages and tells me how many folks have highlighted it. I don't care, Amazon!
michael-
Yes, I think people will eventually want and even come to expect enhanced e-reading experiences. Even for just a novel without illustrations, my understanding is that Blio could potentially allow you to, say, read the e-book to a certain point, get in the car and have the audiobook pick up at where you left off, and then when you return to the e-book it will pick up at where the audiobook leaves off.
And for nonfiction, it's the difference between B&W illustrations and graphs and color and videos. It allows a level of color and design that hasn't never been present in paper books because it wasn't economically viable.
Sure, for an unillustrated novel that is just intended to be read, the difference isn't going to be that great. But there's an enormous amount of potential for creating better reading experiences.
You have a great weekend too Nathan. I'm truly sorry I didn't get to kick it with you and Tahereh and argue about whose shoes are cooler: Yours or Brian Wilson's.
I saw this comment on Twitter:
Bad Idea: Snooki "writing" a book. Worse Idea: Being seen reading said "book"
Nathan, I know you're right about celebrity novel "writing," but somehow that knowledge does nothing to mitigate my irrational rage over this Snooki thing. Well, at least I can admit it's irrational, right?
abc - here you go.
You're closer to being Jim Morrison than you'd thought.
@Johnaskins
I agree. Many of the first lines on that list would not inspire me to read on. I didn't even finish reading some of the longer ones. You know you're in trouble when "It was a dark and stormy night" (which is generally agreed to be the WORST opening line EVER) is on a list of 100 best first lines.
Bah, that list of 100 is weak. I mean really, no "In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit." What gives?
Or "Midway upon the journey of our life I found myself within a forest dark, For the straightforward pathway had been lost"? Granted that one is poetry and not a novel per se.
Regarding the Blio and similar enhanced reading experiences, I believe Michael Johnston and Nathan are BOTH right. People do and will want such features, but not always and everywhere. The broader question is why the paper book has survived and flourished at all. Why did cinema or radio or TV or games or the Internet or audiobooks not replace it? Each enhanced our experiences of stories in different ways, but none replaced either paper books or each other. Why such massive redundancy and so little cannibalization?
I agree that social networking is not the way to sell your books. It's like a little kid whose mom keeps trying to stuff him with vegetables. Just leave me alone--okay? But--if you can get one person to read and like your book and tell others, you're off and running. How? I guess by writing a great book! (and having one good friend)
hahaHA, yes, I read Tahereh's 10 phases of rejection earlier today, and after I finished laughing, I had to share it with a couple of people. Pretty funny stuff. (Wouldn't be so funny if 99.999% of it weren't so TRUE, eh!??)
Nathan-
I love how PWxyz links Endgadget's comparison chart ... too bad they claim it's a Sharp Galaxy tablet instead of Samsung. D'oh!
The iPad will continue to do well because Apple's marketing is genius(ly) targeted to the right consumer space. However, I think the Galaxy tablet will take much more space than a Blackberry will.
1. Galaxy tablet has a far superior screen. Blackberry = TFT.
2. Developers are flooding to Android, Blackberry OS is being abandoned like the Titanic.
3. 3G (all carriers). i.e. There not liming their selves like Apple with AT&T.
The best ebook reader on iPad (IMO of course) is not ANY of the major players, but of course a 3rd party app called Stanza. (Whose company was bought by Amazon since it was so much better).
Because of the above, I believe we'll see non-traditional publishing companies making the biggest strides in e-reading experience.
And I agree, "books" will become graphical, with pictures, charts, etc. They'll be far more interactive than they are today. But Michael, you'll be able to turn these on and off at leisure. Just like on Stanza you can change the background at leisure.
I'm so glad the literary world will keep on turning.
The iPad will finally have competition? Apple got a big head start though.
And since I'm about to launch on a virtual tour for my first book, I really hope it's not a waste!
Phis Teek Wn Iublishing. Nathan, this is so brilliantly written that it appears that creating it would've cost you 12 solid hours. But you'd need to have done it in less time. Isn't it nice to know another person is impressed by your success?
Nathan, it's awesome of you to participate in the Family Violence Prevention auction. Thanks for all the links--I've never been bothered before by hearing about a quasi-celebrity being published, but Snooki? *sigh*
On the subject of authors and social media-
I've had great success connecting with some of my favorite authors in my genre, like Claire Cook and Allison Winn Scotch on Twitter. In fact, Claire's promotion of her book tour led me to attend a signing of hers in CA, even though I live in AZ. We had a Twitter discussion that led to meeting at her book signing and then going to drinks afterward.
Admittedly, that episode says a lot more about the generosity of Claire Cook than the brilliance of Twitter, but hey, I had a drink with one of my favorite authors! Without the personal interaction online (yes that sounds like an oxymoron) I doubt it would have happened at all.
On the subject of authors and social media-
I've had great success connecting with some of my favorite authors in my genre, like Claire Cook and Allison Winn Scotch on Twitter. In fact, Claire's promotion of her book tour led me to attend a signing of hers in CA, even though I live in AZ. We had a Twitter discussion that led to meeting at her book signing and then going to drinks afterward.
Admittedly, that episode says a lot more about the generosity of Claire Cook than the brilliance of Twitter, but hey, I had a drink with one of my favorite authors! Without the personal interaction online (yes that sounds like an oxymoron) I doubt it would have happened at all.
Ah geez, school sucks. No time. No time, no time. Sadly, I may need to postpone my completely odd but predictably long responses to all of your links, Nathan, until I'm out of school. I haven't had time to read them! Arrggh. I haven't had time to visit the forums! Arrgghh. Time, time, time. Ahhh well. At least I'm being EDUCATED.
I will say, I read the post, and it's very funny. You're funny, Nathan. I also read the page critique, and you are very good at that. Don't know if I've said that before.
I also think it's wonderful that you're participating in an auction for such a worthy cause!
Hope everyone had a nice weekend!
I personally don't mind shameless self-promotion via social media. We get it from all directions, and in the end it's our choice what we want to tune in to/purchase/read. I also agree, Nathan, that execution is important. No one wants to be accosted daily by an obvious marketing scheme, but most people are happy to get such information from the internet (isn't that what it's for?). Personally, I follow all my favourite authors on facebook. I want to be the very FIRST to know when their latest novel will be out.
Perhaps the 100 Best First Lines in Novels aren't "Best" because they make you want to read on (though, c'mon, most do) but because they are strange, and unconventional, and sometimes even offensive. They don't necessarily draw the reader into the plot (though, again, most do!) but into the striking absurdity of something exciting and fresh and never-been-done-before. Even the "dark and stormy night" of #22 could have been cutting-edge in the 1830s - just as "bright cold day" (#8) would be a cliche if recycled. I haven't read half of those novels, but just scanning their first lines on that site made me shiver. Oh the importance of the first line.
I wish My Booky Wook wasn't already taken, because I would buy Snooki's Booky Wook on title alone.
Loved the 100 best lines - but they forgot this one from Charlotte's Web: "Where's Papa going with that ax?" said Fern to her mother as they were setting the table for breakfast.
Re, the social meda discussion.
I might be alone in this, but I don't WANT to know much about an author before I read their book/s. I want to experience the story without bias. Without the author's personality/exploits coloring the experience.
As would-be writers we're told over and over not to intervene on the page (advice I agree with), so if a writer's public persona becomes as big or bigger than the story, isn't it sort of the same thing? Author intrusion? (Snooki's book is a case in point. We already don't like it and we haven't even read it yet).
Same is true in my own limited experience---the friends/family that I've allowed to read my WIP, find it difficult to separate me from the project because they know me too well.
For a reader, I think the author is like a magician, and magicians never tell because they'd spoil the illusion. (For a would-be writer, however, these insights are a gift. It IS nice to know that great authors write shaky first drafts).
Am I truly the only one who feels this way?
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 9/30/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
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Over the years it seems like just about every great book was challenged at one time or another for reasons ranging from the well-intentioned to the indubitably dubious. At the Banned Book Week website you can check out a map of book banning and challenges, and the ALA has a list of the Top Ten Most Challenged Books in 2009 and the decade, as well as a list of banned/challenged classics, along with some of the reasons and places.
Which one is your favorite?
The great Tahereh Mafi (who by the way I had the pleasure of meeting yesterday she's awesome) is compiling a master list of blog odes to banned books, so if you decide to blog about it don't forget to add your name to her list and check out the others!
FAT KID opens with an overweight teenager contemplating suicide on a subway platform, but instead Curt strikes up an unlikely friendship with Troy, who is cool and edgy and wants Curt to be in his band. It's a realistic and heartfelt and engrossing book that has an incredible friendship at its core.
This one is extra special because K.L. used to be a colleague of mine at Curtis Brown, and when I read it I was just blown away that I knew someone that insanely talented.
Please check it out if you haven't read it already!
And in the meantime, looking forward to hearing which is your favorite banned/challenged book in the comments section.
I am from the great state of Utah where, according to the map, there are no banned books. Hurrah!
While many of the books would classify as my favorites, I would have to site "Their Eyes Were Watching God." That book changed me. It was the first book I ever cried in, the first time I realized how powerful words can be.
Lord of the Flies.
Right now I'm loving all things Laurie Halse Anderson. For Banned Book Week I read Speak and Twisted and they were pretty wonderful.
I don't know if I would call it my all time favorite but I discovered a copy of "Forever" by Judy Blume under my best friend's sister's bed as a young girl and it made me look at books in a whole new way! Banning makes the heart grow fonder.
I will always love and respect the Harry Potter series but Bridge To Terabithia was the first book that I read as a kid that evoked emotion. I can admit and remember sitting in my room on the bed and reading the book for school, something that I hated to do, and actually tearing up at the end of the story. It was the turning point in my literary future that turned me into a reader and now hopefully someday a published writer.
Aside from not wanting your kid to feel human emotion, I can't think of a reason to not let a kid read it.
Thank you for this post Nathan it gave me a chance to remember a moment in my life that I had forgotten and it was a fairly important moment too.
I have read so many books on the list that it's hard to pick a favorite but I definitely have a soft spot for all the Children's and YA titles. From early on -- 4th/5th grade, I talked to my kids about banned books and why books should never be banned. They read many of those "edgy" and not so "edgy" banned books throughout middle school and high school. I tended to worry way more about the real-life issues they faced and not the fictional ones.
Hey! I ran a teen book group (quasi bibliotherapy group) this past summer and we read Fat Kid Rules the World. I'm always happy to challenge the scary book banning types of the world. And the teens sure liked it!
My fave: The Catcher in the Rye. I can't help it. I just can't.
Lord of the Flies and Harry Potter, 2 of my faves.
Catcher in the Rye by Salinger, challenged? Laugh out loud.
Though mainly finishing a Steampunk series, I am also writing a standalone novel, whose main villain is both young, (21) and very very fat. I put it aside for years out of concerns about political correctness, but resumed writing it recently. The story simply does not work without the character's fatness.
The tone is comic at times (like everything I write!) but it's not actually a comedy. I anticipate controversy, but I think there is something patronizing about treating any minority as so fragile and 'precious' that they cannot be portrayed at all, much less portrayed in all the variations of good and evil human beings display.
Mira, I agree WINNIE THE POOH and THE WIZARD OF OZ should be banned. Look at the way the world has gone since they were published. Is there any other explanation for World War One and World War Two, for example? The young Adolf Hitler read both as a child and often referenced them for military strategies. The 1939 WIZARD OF OZ movie was banned in southern states because it had TWO DIFFERENT COLORS IN THE SAME MOVIE!
If being burned right here in the U.S. of A counts, my vote goes to John Lennon's book of poems, In His Own Write. The book and many Beatles albums were publicly burned by Amreican Christians upset over Lennon's offhand remark that the Beatles had become as popular as Jesus. (I still have my copy.)
The Fiddler's Gun, naturally.
Charlotte's Web and Winnie the Pooh?! Seriously? I'm just speechless.
Wow. Someone banned Hitchhiker's Guide? Definitely one of my favorite books of all time. I saw Ender's Game on another "banned list" yesterday. Yeah, parents should be interested in what their kids are reading - but actively working to get a book banned just sounds like someone desperately needs a hobby.
I read many of the banned classics as assigned reading in school – and it was a parochial school. I’m grateful my teachers didn't think their strong religious views conflicted with their goal of preparing us for adulthood.
Okay, I've recovered enough from my shock at seeing Charlotte's Web and Winnie the Pooh on the banned/challenged list to realize I ought to have been sore specific regsrding what I was aghast about.
Since Nathan's question was which are our favorite banned books I wanted to be clear that I am not shocked that those books may be someone's favorites, but that anyone could ever find anything possibly ban-worthy about them.
You probably all figured that out - I wanted to make sure. ;)
CHARLOTTE'S WEB does indeed go without speaking, Mira. It's just another part of the spiders' plot to take over the world, which most women warn me is unfolding before our very eyes. Moths and Daddy-long-legs are in on it too, it seems. Anything with six or more legs. Wings optional.
Dictionaries? Definitely! Onto the pyre with them all! BTW, Microsoft World tells me 'califlower' should be spelled 'cauliflower', but it's just a (virtual) dictionary itself, so take no notice.
IRS, DMV, HMOS, anything with initials and no full-stops, out with it! (Please note 'J. T. Shea' has full stops after the 'J' and the 'T'.) Though I hear Hollywood is planning to film 'FORM 4868: APPLICATION FOR AUTOMATIC EXTENSION OF TIME TO FILE U. S. INDIVIDUAL INCOME TAX RETURN' with Nicholas Cage as a time traveler who extends the time to file his 2010 tax return to 1865. I hope they don't change the catchy title.
Three of those books were required reading when I was in high school, go figure.
It frustrates me to no end that I can't use Harry Potter in the classroom.
A children's book that gets young children to read and read a LOT, yet I can't even read it out loud to them. I can have it in my room, but that's about it. Half the people that are so against it haven't even read it.
I could go on and on and on, but I'll just get all fiery. :-P It makes me want to go ninja choppin'.
Nathan, Fat Kid is often banned due to its language. Apparently teens don't swear.
It was an absolutely brilliant book, one that's close to my heart. I've written numerous times on how those who object to the language are seeing a forest for the trees.
My favorite has to The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Definitely should be banned for kids younger than 14, but awesome read none the less.
I love Catcher in the Rye, but I have to go with To Kill a Mockingbird. Loved it so much, named my first daughter Scout.
Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale is one of my favorite books ever. Eloquently written dystopian novel that smacks down totalitarianism.
I've written posts about that, as well as Feed, Julie of the Wolves, Looking for Alaska, Thirteen Reasons Why and more. Each of these books is so important, we can't let someone muzzle them.
#26 "Gone with the Wind," and #50 "The Awakening" by Kate Chopin??!! What?! How could these amazing works ever be banned?
I am appalled to think of them being banned as they are so beautifully written and very influential and dear to me.
On a related note, I remember my mother telling me the Catholic church banned parishioners from seeing "Gone with the Wind" in its movie form as late as the 50s-60s - although I think it came out in 1939. Of course, she said it only made her want to sneak out and see it more :)
TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD is my favorite all-time book. I don't think I'd be the same person if I'd never met Scout and Atticus.
THE CATCHER IN THE RYE is also high up there.
Much as I hate the idea of banned books, it sure is nice to see so many people discussing literature with such enthusiasm.
Nathan it seems that the blogosphere is up in arms about explicit banning of books. What about implicit banning?
I searched the online catalogs of some nearby libraries. I couldn’t find a copy of “Mein Kampf”. I shouldn’t have to note that the book had an enormous influence on the 20th century, with repercussions felt today. Yet the book is hard to find, and illegal in several countries. Somehow it doesn’t make the banned book list. I think it is a case of librarians, and others, implicitly censoring the book.
Imagine someone trying to put that one in a high school library.
Please note: I’m not advocating the positions taken in that book.
THE CATCHER IN THE RYE and THE ADVENTURES OF HUCKLEBERRY FINN.
1984 is definitely at the top of my list.
i love finding howard stern: a summer intern's story
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 9/29/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
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Writer Kia Abdullah had the idea for this post, which is something we may lose in the e-book era: seeing what strangers are reading and possibly striking up a conversation.
Kia writes:
...So I saw a person reading Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides on the train and I just had to talk to them about the book (something I've never done before). If you haven't done something like this already, it might make a good You Tell Me (i.e. what book would make you talk to a stranger). I don't think it's always necessarily your favourite book, but one that you may have read recently or that is largely unread by your circle of friends and acquaintances.
Is there a book you're so passionate about that you'd strike up a conversation with someone you saw reading it?
1. If my nose is in a book, you best not be interrupting me for conversation, thank you!
2. I don't see reading from a Kindle/Nook/iPad changing that. If someone's going to interrupt, s/he will interrupt to ask you what you're reading.
3. The Outlander Saga by Diana Gabaldon. I'll still be a bit surly for being interrupted but I'll definitely educate you about a series of excellent books.
I have previously asked a stranger about a book. It was the latest by an author I like. I was disappointed when she said it wasn't that great -- and even more disappointed when I eventually read the book and the stranger turned out to be right!
Also, I read a lot of YA even though I'm not a teen. A kid came up to me when I was reading the Cassandra Clare series. He was red-faced embarrassed but practically bursting to say something. Finally, he blurted, "I just wanted to say I LOVE those books. They're really great." I thought it was the cutest thing in the world. It was so nice to actually meet a teen who reads, and so passionately!
SMOKE AND MIRRORS by Neil Gaiman. Well pretty much anything by him. But if they were well through the book I would want to know how they thought he arranged the logistics of the murders in Murder Mysteries.
If they hadn't yet arrived at that short story, I would kindly request they read it straight away so as to discuss it. I can be very persuasive :) And the symbolism of the elevator? Sheer genius or a joke? I have no idea! It's either his best or worst story and I can't decide in any given moment which.
Books with historical significance - like "To Kill a Mockingbird", "Atlas Shrugged", "Tom Sawyer"(?), etc. books that are challenging - "Ulysess" and books that are favorites to me, like books by Arthur C. Clark, Frank Herbert, William Gibson, and Neal Stephenson are books that would cause me to start a conversation.
ENDER'S GAME by Orson Scott Card. I keep an extra copy of this book so that I can loan it to friends who have not yet read it. I say "yet" because I will make them.
Pretty much any book. I'm not shy and books are a great way to connect with other people.
It would definitely depend on how engrossed the person looked, though. I wouldn't want to be rude or have my head bitten off.
Dune, by Frank Herbert. Or Anne of Green Gables, by L.M. Montgomery. Or The Hunger Games, by Suzanne Collins. Or Harry Potter. Those are the ones. :D
I am so damn shy I could be published and see someone reading my own book and still not approach them. -_-;;
But a few weeks back I saw someone reading one of my favorites (Elfstones of Shannara) at the trolley platform and I timidly approached him about it, which ended shortly and awkwardly.
So...yeah. =\
Anyone reading a book of poetry is bound to be my brother or sister.
Well, you know what mine is :)
> John
I think I may order House of Leaves after that glowing review.
> Jesse
*Backs away slowly*
Shiver or Linger by Stiefvter. The series is one of my favorites but I don't know that many people (besides on the web) that have read them. Depending on the setting, but I would probably stop and ask anyone about a book, especially if its a fav or by a fav author. I think if I saw someone reading something that I haven't yet but was interested in I would ask as well.
"Dracula" always gets my blood moving.
Anyone reading Alice in Wonderland. If anyone was reading that in public, they'd be worth getting to know.
Fun question.
Basically any book I've read, or am thinking about reading is fair game - if I feel like having a conversation.
But any Harry Potter - I'd have a hard time restraining myself.
I have yet to be asked what I'm reading when I have a paperback in my hands.
I have, however, been asked about my nook more than once!
It would depend on the book and my mood, but I don't like to interrupt people when they're into a story.
I had the most strangers interrupt me when I was reading anything Harry Potter.
BLUE LIKE JAZZ, or A MILLION MILES IN A THOUSAND YEARS both by Donald Miller.
I think if someone wad reading those books, I would see something of a kindred spirit and want to learn a bit of their story.
Mine.
Or Nick Hornby.
Or if I saw Nick Hornby reading anything, I'd talk to him.
Twin Study by Stacey Richter (or My Date With Satan), anything by Amy Hempel or Lorrie Moore.
Probably Uglies, Pretties, or Specials, by Scott Westerfeld. I love those books and I don't think I've ever seen anyone read them in public.
Then on the other hand, I was in a bookstore once and I did strike up a conversation with a stranger because they were about to buy a book that I hated. It was part of a series that I had loved, until I read the book this person was holding, and so I felt compelled that share that news with them. Of course they still wanted to read the book, and I couldn't blame them, but I was still glad I had warned them about it.
Jellicoe Road by Melina Marchetta.
I've struck up conversations with random readers before though, if nothing else to say "Hey is it any good?"
I don't know. Seeing someone reading a book makes them feel like a kindred spirit. Some part of me reflexively believes they'll want to talk to me too.
I almost always will ask people about a book if I recognize the cover and am thinking of reading it. If it's middle grade or YA, I always ask.
I'm a sub, so I always ask the students about the books they're reading.
Honestly, it doesn't take much for me to start talking about a book-especially if the person is clearly a parent/grandparent trying to pick out something in the kids/teen section for a young reader. They can barely get me to shut up. :)
This was the first thing I thought of when eBooks came out.
I wish they would put a little window on the back of all eReaders that has the title of what you're reading so that others can see it too. With an option to turn it off, of course.
Although, when someone is holding a book, there are usually two angles that block anyone else from seeing what's on the page. With an eReader, there's just one, so I think surrounding observers would be able to see what you're reading more easily if you use an eReader than they would be with a regular book.
Because of this post, I'm now going to approach every person I see using an eReader and ask them "Whatcha reading?" It should be fun.
As for which book would make me talk to a stranger?
Probably your book, Nathan. I'd be more likely to make a personal connection with someone who was reading a book by one of the blogs that I follow. Especially if they also follow that blog.
I'd like to say yes, but I'm English. We need a lot more than a good book to force us to make conversation with strangers, believe me.
I guess I'm one of those weird people that just don't want to be bothered if I'm reading. But people do often do that, even though I'm polite enough that I raise the book to show them what I'm reading and hold it so they can read the blurb.
If they don't get the point by then, a long suffering sigh should do it.
If not, I'm blunt.
Without a doubt, I'd want to chat with anyone I saw reading Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman. At the same time, I'd hate to drag someone away from what I know is a fantastic story, so I probably wouldn't bother anyone who was actively reading at the time. If he or she was just sitting there holding Neverwhere, though, I'd definitely have to strike up a conversation.
@Jenn Marie: Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell is a brilliant book! The way everything comes together in the end -- things that I thought were unnecessary and peripheral at first -- was just so well done.
I have a really bad habit of striking up a conversation with everyone...and sometimes their pets and children.
But any book that I haven't read that looks interesting would be a worthy conversation starter.
Other than that, anything Dostoyevsky. (HAHA! SO far I'm original. So far)
The Witches by Roald Dahl.
Because anyone that reads the awesomesauce that is roald dahl is someone i'd like to know!
The whole world asked about Frankenstein when I carried it around. They all said they had always wanted to read it, but had never quite gotten to it. I told them to skip the first hundred pages if they ever did.
If somebody else were carrying it, I'd probably ask them if they survived the beginning and got to the good stuff yet.
I probably wouldn't talk to a complete stranger about a book. And if one talked to me I'd probably just smile and move on.
As for discussing books with people I know, I do this all the time with e-books and print books.
But not with strangers.
Two books I would stop and discuss if I saw a stranger reading one:
"The Ignored" by Bentley Little
"The Art Of Racing in the Rain" by Garth Stein
I was thiiiiis close to asking somebody what they thought of that book A Million Little Pieces by James Frey, but I guess I mostly wanted to ruin any illusion that it was a purely non-fiction story, not talk about the book. Mean, huh?
I haven't but I've had several people approach me to ask about a book I've been reading.
The book that would do it for me right now is "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt - but I'm a nerd. It's possibly the only econ. book anyone need read!
Oh and David Glen Larsen - You can count me as an Atlas Shrugged read who is a Libertarian (though I read the book in '07 and became the big "L" afterwards). Not a Tea Partier though.
Fiction, though - "Hunger Games" and "Book Thief" might do it!
Any book I've read.
But I'm outgoing. :)
"Anonymous said...
I so admire all of you who have your pick of strangers reading books. I cannot think of the last time I saw someone reading a book in public.
September 29, 2010 11:31 AM"
@Anon: Have you never been on a plane or public transit? Or perhaps, a park on a sunny day?
I know this will sound unpardonably rude, but I read a book in public precisely so I DON'T have to talk to strangers. There's nothing more annoying than being on a plane, dying to dive into my latest book, and be trapped for five hours with someone who wants to chat. Or sitting alone in a restaurant, wishing only to enjoy a cold drink, a hot dinner, and light reading, and being accosted by a stranger.
The ONLY time I want someone to mention a book I'm reading is if they actually wrote it. In which case I would say something polite, ask for an autograph, and resume reading. Le sigh.
I fantasize about finding someone who is actually reading a book I've read. I've yet to come across this situation BUT I always look to see what book people are reading out and about.
Speaking of which, what book are you reading right now Nathan? I would love to know!
t. anne-
I'm between books actually, need to decide what I'm going to read next.
FISKADORO by Denis Johnson. I read it 15 years ago and it's like a weird evocative dream I still remember well. Don't know anyone else who's read it.
I don't think I've ever stopped to talk to a stranger when I saw them reading a book, but when I was on a plane over to Europe, someone stopped to ask me about a Dean Koontz book I was reading (and it turned out we were both big fans). Also when the final Harry Potter book came out I don't think anyone was safe reading that in public.
"Constructing Explosive Devices for Fun and Profit."
Admittedly, the stranger I would talk to would more likely be a police officer than the person reading it, but still...
Reesha - absolutely! If I saw anyone reading Nathan's book in public, there is no way I could resist talking to them.
Anything written by my friends or Clan of the Cave Bear.
American Wife, by Curtis Sittenfeld, because I think she's awesome.
In addition to HUNGER GAMES (obviously), I'd say THEIR EYES WERE WATCHING GOD or anything else by Zora Neale Hurston or BELOVED by Toni Morrison. Oooh, or BREATH, EYES, MEMORY by Edwidge Danticat. Those are favorites - wouldn't be able to resist!
My experience was on the opposite end: I was reading THE FOUNTAINHEAD on the subway and a man said, "That's a great book. Howard Roark is my hero." I looked up and saw it was the man who plays Todd Manning on ONE LIFE TO LIVE. I was too flustered to speak. (he's a hottie!)
The Book Thief by Markus Zusak. My all-time favorite, most inspiring book I've ever read. I'd recommend it to anyone, too.
Probably A Clockwork Orange would make me need to start a conversation. Either that or Looking For Alaska
Mr. Monster by Dan Wells. The complex and scary protagonist always makes me want to ask, "Do you like John Cleaver?"
I have twice had people strike up conversations with me based on what I'm reading (I tend not to notice what others are reading, because I', unobservant) once was horrifying, and once was wonderful, and both happened close to each other.
The horrifying one happened when I was reading Harry Potter 5 on a plane. It had just come out, and I was devouring it, and I was trapped in my chair, because my leg was broken, and my crutches had already been stowed away. The man who sat next to me was a right wing Christian, who believed Harry Potter was from the devil, and proceeded to lecture me for the next five hours on the evils of witchcraft and fantasy literature. I was fourteen, and a socially awkward, retiring fourteen, and he was middle aged. he used my unwillingness to be disrespectful of adults to disrespect me.
The next time someone struck up a conversation with me based on what I was reading was a few months later, and I had just started high school. The person doing the striking up was a sophomore, and the book was A Wizard of Earthsea. She and I became instant best friends and have remained so since.
Any Terry Practchett novel, because his talent is underappreciated and I know few people who've read his books.
I'm tempted to talk to anyone who is reading so long as there's an opportune moment, when they look up or something. I might be scared off by a grumpy looking person but anyone in the gym or in a waiting room is fair game.
If they're reading a romance or a book with a cheap looking cover I'm not interested and if they are an interesting looking person and the book they're reading turns out to be trash it can be disappointing.
Why, my unpublished one. Once it's published, of course.
Hmmmm.... I'd probably do it for Freaknomics because that thing is a converation starter in itself.
The other one would be Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Fantastic, ridiculously long book that I've never heard of anyone else reading.
I had a fun experience on the train just a few weeks ago. I sat down, whipped out my paperback copy of THE GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO, and then happened to notice that the person directly across from me was reading the hardback version. We caught each other's eyes, smiled, and each made some sort of comment about how popular the books were. The woman who was sitting on my left chuckled and then revealed she was reading the third in the series on her ereader. We all shared about a minute’s worth of conversation about the series and then delved back into our respective reads.
Turns out, I didn’t care for the book, but I love that moment.
I've done it with Middlesex and House of Sand and Fog.
The Bible. Jane Eyre. Something unusual, or something I'd been meaning to read.
Nathan between books!? I thought you'd always have at least a dozen on the go at any given moment.
Any Amelia Peabody book by Elizabeth Peters. I feel a special bond with anyone reading them. :)
Also, probably Bittersweet or Cold Tangerines by Shauna Niequist, because I know her, and her books are fabulous. :)
I can't say that there is. But I did have it happen to me one time in college. I was reading a Tamora Pierce novel that had just come out and a guy next to me at the bus stop started talking to me because of it. He was a fan of hers as well. We chatted until my bus came.
…Um, I strike up conversations with strangers anyway, though I'm more likely to if they're reading something. Even if it's a book I didn't much care for.
I once noticed that the lady behind me in line to check out at B&N had two books in a UF series I'd read; I mentioned that I liked them, but I liked another author more. The lady left line to go find those books.
Funny, I was going to say Tamora Pierce, and then saw Stephanie's comment
I did this when visiting the UK, on the tube once a woman was reading Mansfield Park.
Probably any book I really liked, honestly. Conversations struck up with strangers have led some pretty good friendships. Particularly when strangers are in line to meet Neil Gaiman
I've done this three times to strangers this week alone. Two different people were reading THE HELP (which I adored), and the other was reading GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO (which is on my TBR pile but I loved the movie).
Although I'm usually an introvert, I'll pretty much talk to anyone about books--people who read aren't strangers to me.
I think I tend to hold my books up so people can see what I'm reading just so someone can ask me about it. I'm a dork. I did have one young guy tell me he "didn't think girls read that kind of book" one day. I was reading one of The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. I'm a fantasy geek. That's about all I read!
If I saw someone reading a Kindle at this point in time, that alone would be enough to start a conversation over. (I'm in a fairly rural area and don't know anyone a single person who's bought an ereader yet.)
In the future when they're more common, I'd probably ask him what he was reading on it and start a conversation that way. If I see someone reading something I already know about I'm unlikely to want to talk about it, but if it's a mystery that needs discovering, that's different.
F. Scott Fitzgerald's "The Beautiful and the Damned" - that book was one of the most enjoyable I've ever read, and, as it was the first exposure I had to Fitzgerald, I will always be in awe of how freaking good it was.
I frequently start conversations with strangers. Good or bad, it's something I do. But probably any book that I could have conversation about, any book I had an opinion on.
Ender's Game -- Orson Scott Card !
Three Cups of Tea because it's an inspiring true story of how one person can make a huge difference in the world without actually having that grandiose objective.
I don't try to start up a conversation, for two reasons:
1. I don't want to disturb their reading. It's kind of a "do unto others" thing, because I prefer to read without the distraction of a conversation.
2. I'm probably busy reading something.
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i'm not shy at all about talking to strangers about books they're reading. generally, if it's a book i enjoyed, especially a less popular book, i'll say something. ditto for books i absolutely hated. a good example: jay's journal. HATED that book w/ the heat of a thousand hot pockets. it gave me nightmares for weeks, and i won't hesitate to tell anyone to never, ever read it. it's a true story, some kid's journal that the mom found and published w/ changed names after he committed suicide, but it's really dark and super creepy, and if i ever saw someone reading it, i'd advise them to burn it on the spot. i'd even supply the lighter fluid.
Peace Like a River by Leif Enger
The Book Thief by Markus Zusak
Anything by David Sedaris
And so many more...
This is a twist on the question.
I once had a handsome man ask me about a book I was reading on the metro in Washington DC. The book was "Blue Highways" by William Least-Heat Moon. He said he'd read it too and we talked a little about the book before he asked me for a date. Several dates later he admitted he'd never read the book. Should have been a sign for me...
I'm a walking stereotype from the South. I don't need any reason at all to talk to a stranger.
I actually do this all the time. I meet people in the strangest ways and in the oddest places.
The Hunger Games, Catch 22, anything by Bill Bryson, Going Bovine, and anything I've read recently or am currently reading. And anything currently on my radar as something to read or pay attention to.
If I saw someone reading The Help by Kathryn Stockett, I'd definitely want to discuss.
This is why e-readers need a "show-off" function, namely, a second screen ON THE BACK that displays what you're reading at the time. Of course, we'd soon see apps that let you display that you're reading Tolstoy when you're really reading John Grisham . .. . .
I used to re-read 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas' on public transport in the hope that someone else who loved it too would talk to me. This was on the basis that anyone else who enjoyed it would be someone interesting to talk to, (and hopefully be an attractive and charismatic male).
I talk to people about books all the time if I have read the book, thought about reading the book, or hated the book. There are many, many reasons why I start up conversations with people about books.
Gosh, so many ... "War and Peace," of course, "The Possessed," anything by Turgenev except "Fathers and Sons," "Great Expectations," and from there it kind of degenerates into obscure stuff that I would want to talk about simply out of surprise that someone else knew about them -- "Utopia," for example.
I have had a couple conversations with complete strangers about Harry Potter. And I've personally struck up a conversation with someone at the airport who was reading the Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest, after seeing many a passenger carrying it.
It depends how nerdaphobic I'm feeling at the moment, and of course the person needs to not be super sweaty or look scary for any other reason.
Hey, anytime I see anyone reading my book, I will talk with them, no doubt about it.
Either The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle, or That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis. With both books, the appeal is not so much the story as the thoughts presented in them, and I would love to hear the stranger's opinion on them.
Anything/everything Vonnegut.
&
House of Leaves. Oh, and Shantaram because none of my friends have read it.
"Virus of the Mind", Richard Brodie. Just about anything by Gregg Braden. "Eat Pray Love". The Sookie Stackhouse series. Anything on Philosophy, World Religions, Horses. I'll also strike up random conversations if you are knitting or crocheting.
You know, the advent of the Kindle could spell the end of the randomly struck-up chat--unless you're nosy enough (or they are) to peek.
The title of the book changes from month to month, but it would have to be an actual book and not a eBook. I've noticed on the bus that I can't tell what books people are reading so much anymore - I can't see the jackets or book covers.
This happened to me at work - I was reading Girl with The Dragon Tattoo and in a week three people I don't know came up to me and said they'd read it. It's sad to think this kind of interaction won't take place with e- readers...
I have absolutely done this - multiple times. Most recently, I overheard a girl asking an employee at a bookstore which of the "Gallagher Girls" books came first in the series. The salesperson didn't know, so I proceeded to annoy them both with a way-too-detailed answer. What can I say - I love Ally Carter.
But I would enjoy the "Hunger Games," "Harry Potter" and "Book Thief" conversations the rest of y'all are proposing as well. :)
1. Mine
(I totally would)
2. I read NEVER LET ME GO a week or two ago and really loved it, and I keep thinking about it. So that one.
3. Probably any book that I've read in the last few years and really liked
Anything by Mercedes Lackey or Anne McCaffrey. And any kind of book about writing. If I saw someone reading "Plot and Structure" I'd have to say something.
Yes, I just finished The Elegance of the Hedgehog, and if I saw someone reading it, I would want to discuss it.
Stephen King's Cell, any of the Harry Potter Books, or anything in the Odd Thomas series by Dean Koontz would qualify as conversation starters for me.
What book would prompt me to talk to a stranger? Well, mine, of course. But seriously, being a Leo I never have trouble striking up a conversation. I'd have to say to answer this that I'd be most interested in someone reading a book I didn't enjoy. I'd love to discuss what attracts that reader and debate the pros and cons of why we feel differently about this volume. Then segue into those we both do like. I learn much more about human nature by exploring our differences than celebrating our sameness.
"Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" by Christopher Moore, because whoever I saw reading it would be laughing out loud and I wouldn't be able to resist laughing with them...and then we'd have to chortle about the scene when an inebriated Jesus explains why we have the Easter bunny...in no time, we'd be having a beer together...hey...books are a great way to make friends!!
The Road by Cormac McCarthy, Atlas Shrugged or We the Living - both by Ayn Rand, Jane Eyre, Lord of the Rings, Stranger in a Strange Land or Time Enough for Love by Heinlein.
I've talked to strangers in the bookstore about The Hunger Games, and on multiple occasions I've recommended it to moms browsing for books for their teenage daughters.
Well...my book! But I might strike up a conversation if it's any book I read recently and loved, like the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, The Ghosts of Belfast, anything by Cara Black (she's a friend, another reason why I'd speak up), or David Corbett's Done for a Dime. Right now, Howl (Allen Ginsberg) because the film's just coming out and anyone reading poetry must be pretty interesting!
Me Talk Pretty One Day by Sedaris. Did it in an airplane (meaning, struck up a conversation with the fellow sitting next to me reading the book).
Nathan...
Anything by Lee Child - the man plots the shit out of every story he writes. Jack Reacher is a character for the ages. He never fails...IMHO
Anything by Borges, Nabokov, Shirley Hazzard, Louise Erdrich, Martin Cruz Smith, YA fantasy a kid was reading, McCarthy's Bar (world's funniest book) --and mine (when I finish writing it and it's published, LOL.)
It is a truth universally acknowledged that if you see anyone reading Pride and Prejudice, you can talk to them... well, I do anyway. I would chat to anyone who is reading something that I've read. I talk to complete strangers who are not even reading when they happen to be in the same aisle of the library as me (I've found some of my favorite authors through recommendations gleaned this way). You can talk to anyone about "Twilight" and I have to stop anyone who is reading Jasper Fforde for a quick chat....
One of the Sevenwaters Series by Juliet Marillier, or The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle. Favorite books of all time and I'd definitely strike up dialogue over those!
I am an extroverted stay at home mom, any recognizable book would be a sufficient excuse to start a conversation with a stranger..
Harry Potter, any book in the series. I could talk about this book for hours.
Not to take everyone else's ideas but any Harry Potter book. I could have and have had quite a few conversations with people reading the book. The most interesting part was that some were in their fifties and sixties and others were in their early teens and each of the demographics spoke of the book with the same passion. JK Rowling is my hero.
P.S. Can't wait to talk to someone about Freedom but it won't be delivered to the house until tomorrow, so excited.
outlander series
I was reading Tom Jones in the hair salon and a woman nearby said that she used to teach the book when she was a university professor. When I looked up I realized she looked familiar. It turned out she was my professor when I was in university--at a school five hours away. She had recently moved to my small town and graciously offered up the library and its contents she had in her home. It was the beginning of a long relationship talking books, swapping treasures and closing the generation gap. (I was 28, she was 67.)
Anything I've enjoyed.
I find myself doing this every time I'm in a bookstore, too - approaching strangers and recommending some book in their hands because I liked it. Still waiting for my commission cheques to roll in...
A copy of the Bible is about all. I use to love books but these days not so much. Most: boring, crude, unimaginative, same ol', same ol'. Sorry. I rather liked the first book in the Twilight series as it was neither of the above and similiar to one of my stories. But many people read it so I wouldn't start up a conversation about it.
The Dollmaker, by Harriet Arnow. Loved the book but I don't know anyone else who has read it. A movie was made, starring Jane Fonda as a Kentucky farm wife. I was prepared to hate her in the role, was certain she'd screw it up, but she did a great job. One of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever read.
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Hmmm....Harry Potter, Little Women, A Wrinkle in Time. Though it would also depend on what the stranger looked like. If he/she looked sketchy I probably wouldn't talk to him/her at all. xD
~TRA
http://xtheredangelx.blogspot.com
The other day I was at the B&N cafe reading the first chapter of The Secret of Lost Things by Sheridan Hay and some kid came by and told me what a great book it was. His recommendation made me buy it :)
For me, I remember talking to strangers who read "The DaVinci Code", Harry Potter, and anything by Sarah Addison Allen.
If I were anywhere in the US (not in Scotland or elsewhere in the UK) and I saw someone reading anything by Edwin Morgan (on whom I wrote my dissertation), I would most certainly stop and speak to that person.
Anything by Hunter S. Thompson. Anyone who reads Hunter is worth knowing.
OKAY, I was always under the Impression that it is perfectly normal to walk up to complete strangers and discuss the book they're holding???
I do this ALL the time :-)
OUTLANDER SERIES!!! DIANA GABALDON!!!
I spent half a year in Scotland because of these books. Went on a tour of the Highlands. Discovered about five other people on the tour who also suffered from an Outlander fetish.
Some of my dearest friendships blossomed from the time spent in Scotland.
Books bring people together. I don't think/am fervently hoping that eBooks won't diminish this affect.
I've talked to strangers everywhere when it's about books. Once I saw someone at Costco not sure about the Mortal Instruments series, and I could not recommend it enough to them. In the library, a lady wasn't sure what middle grade book to take for her grandson, and I told her about Gregor the Overlander. I hope some mother out there doesn't hate me. I've given away tons of copies of The Shadow of the Wind, in fact, I don't have my own at the moment.
I've read Atlas Shrugged and all of Ayn Rand's books, and if I see someone with it, I sometimes say something. You might think I'm this annoying person who always intrudes into people's quiet time with books, but I'm actually kind of shy. With books I make an exception.
Being extremely introverted, I'm not likely to strike up a conversation with anyone. However, if the person appeared approachable, I may have to comment to someone who was reading White Noise by Don DeLillo. I can't begin to describe how much I loved that book, and how much it influenced my own writing.
I pounced on a complete stranger at a bus stop because they were reading Mockingjay and I hadn't bought a copy yet.
Granted, she was talking to someone I knew, but still.
Les Miserables, Gone with the Wind, the Harry Potter series, the Outlander series.
Cutting for Stone by Abraham Verghese. I finished it a month ago and I still think about it daily. I would willingly accost any stranger who was reading it, even though I'm on the shy side. Incredible writing, characters beautifully drawn, unusual setting, and a captivating storyline. Stunning and well worth any initially awkward conversation.
Probably Foxfire (Joyce Carol Oates) or Persepolis (Marjane Satrapi)
Any of the Harry Dresden series at the minute. Something like a breathless, "Do you like it??" as I hope to meet another fan.
I have stopped several times in the book store when I see people standing in the aisle with blank stares, not knowing what to pick. When I was there a few days ago, a grandmother was in the YA aisle with me and asked if I knew any good "Twilighty" books for her grand daughter. I picked up Hush, Hush for her.
I also recommend Megan McCafferty's books to everyone I see looking for something new to read. Or for non-fiction, I always suggest Jen Lancaster.
I have bought everyone I know a copy of Looking for Alaska. :)
I *have* struck conversations with strangers reading Walter Benjamin and Benjamin Kunkel's Indecision. Both conversations led to Craigslist Missed Connections with guys named David that ended unsuccessfully.
I'm English - so the concept of interrupting someone while they are reading, even to comment on what they are reading, is pretty much a hanging offence.
Even if I didn't die of embarrassment, the combined mortification of all the commuters would probably derail the train.
The furthest, the ABSOLUTE furthest, I've gone is when I leaned to one side to confirm that the man next to me on the tube was indeed reading "The Gathering Storm" (the newest Wheel Of Time book for all you empty lifed fools who haven't read it yet). He looked at me, I looked up from the cover and just gave him a knowing nod of approval. I still feel ashamed to this day.
I can't stop recommending World War Z by Max Brooks. I'd definitely talk to someone reading it, since I talk to all the people who aren't reading it at the moment about it already. It's global in scope, creepy, political, and tongue-in-cheek.
"Left Behind" by Tim Lahay and Jerry B. Jenkins is probably the only book that has produced the effect that made me ask, "What are you reading?” A book held tightly in a young man’s hands (who I am guessing was approximately in his middle twenties) bringing him to tears outside the hospital. It was early February and the book look worn as if a thousand people had already read what he held in his hands. I had stepped out for a break and a smoke (something I quit nine years ago, thank God) and there he sat, tears rolling down his face. He looked up at me with huge brown weepy eyes and said, "A book that is changing my life rapidly," and handed it to me as he wiped his face. I read that particular book when he was finished and so have many more people past me in the hospital where I worked and all throughout our town. I own it and the entire series, but I don't particularly keep it. It is passed along and shared with all who want to read it. Many had come up to me where ever I may have been reading it, as well as the rest of the series (all twelve) and ask, “What it is you are reading that is bringing you to tears or elation or anger...”
Stacia Kane or Brian Keene
Oh, and also I wouldn't want someone to strike up a conversation with the person next to me, either.
I'm reading. The last thing I want is the constant irritation and distraction of a conversation going on in my left ear between two people squeeing over how brilliant Cormac McCarthy is.
See this is the problem with civilisation: people!
South of Broad by Pat Conroy.
Or anything by him, for that matter.
Just now I've got "Smile or Die" on the table next to me and would love to talk to someone else who's reading it. I wouldn't bother anyone while they were reading though - I've been engrossed in a book and had people interrupt me, not about the book but because they wanted to talk and thought that reading = doing nothing.
I might well smile at a reader, though, especially if it's a book I know and like.
I was once on a boat trip in the Panama Canal surrounded by a group of people who all knew each other and were all discussing The Da Vinci Code, which hadn't then been published in my country. I understood enough from what I overheard to know that a) it would be a massive best-seller and b) I would hate it.
Easy! Hunger Games...I've already been talking to stranger and non-strangers about this :)
Wintergirls by Laurie Halse Anderson
'nuff said.
Lachlan's War by Michael Cannon or Sweetness in the Belly by Camilla Gibb
I work part-time in a bookstore--kinda gets it out of my system--so I rarely talk about books with strangers elsewhere. If I saw someone reading Slapstick by Vonnegut or anything by Chandler, well, I would HAVE to talk to them.
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. I read it the first time when I was 15 and have read it twice since. Each time, I got something different from it.
"Insomnia" by Stephen King. I don't know anyone who has read it. I'm making my boyfriend read it just so I can talk to him about it.
anything by Ayn Rand.
Lady Chatterly's Lover
I would talk to some one reading 'Stranger in a Strange Land'
I read this book when I was eight years old and was deeply impressed.
"Seven Types of Ambiguity" by Eliot Perlman, an Australian writer/barister. The book is sexy, brilliant, heartbreaking. I fell in love with the protagonist, when the book was over, it felt like a divorce. No one's ever heard of it, thus, I would be friends forever for anyone who had.
I have VERY close friends from all over the world because of Harry Potter. I STILL talk to people I see reading those books. A Potter head is a Potter head is a Potter head, and I love them all.
This comments section is a fantastic book list. As to the question, if I see anyone reading a book on a train,
and I can determine that it's not trash, I'm likely to strike up a conversation purely on the basis of
reading itself. There are SO many books! A book by Don DeLillo, Jack Vance, Philip K. Dick, a copy of Infinite Jest, those will get me talking.
Anything by Jim Butcher!
The first time I did it was for The Color Purple, by Alice Walker. Saw a woman in the bookstore dithering, and I told her she should buy it and read it, because all women needed to.
Seven types of ambiguity WAS AWESOME!
Also, loved Zero History, and would definitely speak with anyone who was caught reading Tuck Everlasting or Odd John.
There's also a really strange Peter Carey book I liked.The Unusual Life of Tristan Smith.
Lastly, Lolly Willowes and Jakob von Guten. also, anyone reading cees nooteboom. Or...Logan's Run.
It's actually a fantastic read.
There are many other books I love - I'm just talking about the ones that would compel me to speak to someone because they're unusual or not well known (besides Zero History).
Middlesex would definitely be one of them, but the most conversation-worthy of them all for me would probably be some recent teen book. The Carrie Diaries comes to mind. Good question!
Full on -- anything by Gerald Durrell would stop me in my tracks. Especially his early Greek ones.
Dance of a Discident Daughter by Sue Kidd Monk would definitely prompt me to disturb the reader.
A Good Son...wow, what did you think of the psychology of cultures?
But anytime I see someone reading and they laugh outloud I want to ask them to read it to me.
"The Forgotten Garden" by Kate Morton. Also, almost any classic literature, and a couple of non-fiction books I really enjoyed - "The Soloist" by Steve Lopez and "The City of Falling Angels" by John Berendt. All of these books to me were interesting subjects and I could spend loads of time talking about them.
I feel kind of bad for the stranger now.
Mein Kampf. With your recent discussion on banned books, that one (while not banned) is a pretty hot-button book, and I'd be interested to hear why someone would be reading it.
Kindred by Octavia Butler, The Time Traveler's Wife, anything by Margaret Atwood. People don't really know what to do when I lean in and blurt, "You are just SO lucky!"
Songmaster by Orson Scott Card (or any book by him).
Hunger Games.
A stranger just spoke to me yesterday about it.
Woolf's Three Guineas.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 9/28/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
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At the same time, I want to kind of acknowledge that the fight against censorship and banned books is changing somewhat in the Internet era, no? And ultimately, I think, for the better.
Three cheers for the fact that it's less viable for someone to try and ban a book than it ever has been. Up until the Internet era, if someone successfully banned a book in a library or in bookstores in a region, that was it. Good luck finding that book! You'd have to drive to another region to find it, if you heard about it at all.
With the Internet though, good luck stopping someone from finding that book. Chances are they can buy it very easily online.
Now, obviously there is uneven access to money and computers and the Internet and this does not mean everything is peachy and that we should stop being vigilant. The youth of America will always be the most vulnerable to censorship as libraries are more central to their reading lives, so there are still choke points that can stop a worthy book from reaching a child who needs it.
And I also wonder if there's a new danger created by the Internet, which is that any yahoo with a crazy agenda can easily hijack our attention by doing offensive stunts. This has obviously always been a part of life, but it seems like it's now easier and more common than ever. You see this everywhere on the Internet and the media: someone wants to get some attention so they say the most horrible things they can think of, then they sit back and watch the show, feasting on their newfound attention. On every scale, from the smallest website to the national media, the Internet is greasing the crazyperson skids.
Lately I've been wondering if these people deserve our scorn or if they deserve our restraint. Is there a way to fight these people without playing right into their hands and giving them the attention they're craving? Is there a risk in elevating a crazyperson's agenda by treating them so seriously? What's the balance?
If there's actual censorship going on then yes, definitely, fight it like there's no tomorrow, because if censorship takes hold there may as well not be a tomorrow. I don't think there's much ambiguity about that.
But what about when people are staging book-related stunts and saying ridiculous things on the Internet? Is the best tactic to treat them seriously and fight back or to deprive them of the attention they're aiming for?
That's an honest question, I really don't know the answer.
On the one hand, truth and decency and free expression are absolutely worth fighting for, and even if it's a mosquito biting you, you swat it.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel that as we learn to navigate the Internet era, if there's a virtual dog pile every time someone says something vile, are we increasing the likelihood of people provoking us in the future? Does it become more appealing for people to try and pull similar stunts for attention? Do we make ourselves a target by being easily provoked?
I'm not leaving off this post with any answers, only questions, because I
The problem with these types of topics is that the masses don't win out because they don't care enough to speak up. That's why some farming community somewhere has determined that James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl should be banned and therefore it has been. Just an example, a hypothetical if you will, but still, it's amazing how few people realize what can and what cannot based on just a few people who care enough to make a fuss.
I posted Monday about this topic and included a bit of information about how the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drews amongst several other series in the syndicate were banned from 1927 until the mid 1960's. All because people thought series books were terrible.
The reasons for banning anything are always silly, unfounded, unresearched loads of garbage.
I don't think it's a black and white issue. I think it depends on the situation and most importantly, HOW you respond to it.
For instance, I responded to the SPEAK issue, not by attacking the person who promoted the ignorance, but by educating people about the issue of date rape in our society. There are ways to speak up in ways that are professional and respectful.
Some issues are too important to take the silent route.
Extra: We're hosting a giveaway of SPEAK by Laurie Halse Anderson on our blog for anyone who is interested.
I'm glad that you used crazyperson as a single noun. It seems that crazy is more of a core identity feature instead of an adjective for some of these attention seekers.
Thought provoking post Nathan. Thoughtful replies also appreciated. Yes, more questions than answers, but the important thing is that the dialogue continues. If the response to suppression of intellectual freedom is silence, don't we risk losing that intellectual freedom by virtue of the removal of books that deserve our attention and may well be needed by a host of readers who no longer have access? My vote is for respectfully "Speak"ing out. I do not care to have my reading choices, nor those of my children or grandchildren (hopefully one day; no pressure girls honest) dictated. Sheryl
"On the one hand, truth and decency and free expression are absolutely worth fighting for, and even if it's a mosquito biting you, you swat it."
I'm in favor of swatting the mosquito.
When I read this post, the issue that jumped most quickly to my mind was the furor over the misnamed "Ground Zero Mosque" followed by the "wingnut" burning of the Quran.
It's fine to argue that the truth will come out, that crazies will fade away if denied the attention they seek, that they will prove themselves idiots. But it doesn't always happen that way.
Lots of people listen to wingnuts, especially when the wingnuts have the loudest voice. If we don't have anything else to listen to, then we believe the crazies and the fire grows. It doesn't die out. When the internet was filled with stories about the "Ground Zero Mosque," it was important to spread more accurate information about Park51. It was important, to me, to speak out.
We believe what we hear most frequently. If we hear that there is no genocide in Rwanda (in the 1990s), then most of us will believe that there is no genocide in Rwanda. The wingnuts can be subtle, after all. Crazy doesn't mean stupid. Ultimately, a lack of information, a failure to spread the truth, to speak out, can be worse than pulling a book from a shelf, or even burning a book on the street. It can mean lasting hatred, the kind that burns cities, and people, instead.
My two cents, shined hard.
Great post - I really appreciate that you laid out both sides of the issue, with its ambiguity and complication.
This is a hard one. I know not everyone agrees with me, but I was really angry about the Slushpile Hell agent. However, I stopped talking about it because I got the sense that the agent enjoys the attention. No point in that. But I was also aware the issue was being pursued in another way.
I guess that would be my guideline. Is responding to this person going to have benefit? Or is another way to handle it that will be more effective?
And is there benefit in speaking out? If I speak out will it:
a. educate that person
b. educate other people
c. add ideas and perspectives that balance out the conversation
d. allow me to make positive connections with those who share my beliefs.
e. help build community that may go on to advocate on many levels.
f. counter a very strong voice.
c. and f. are important. Deciding to 'rise above' it can be risky because the silence can be misunderstood. That voice can become much stronger than it should be.
So, as irritating as it may be to feed a bid for attention, if it can be transformed into something positive - like education - then it can be worth it.
Those are my two cents, for what they are worth. :)
Appreciate the chance to explore a really interesting topic, Nathan. Thanks.
I agree. This is a sharp double-edged sword. On the one side it's so important to speak out against this kind of prejudice and ignorance. On the other...the last thing these people need is another ear directed toward their preaching...Very torn about this and not sure what the solution is.
About the virtual dogpile. What bothers me about that is that people jump in who may not even really have a true knowledge of the situation. It's way easier to become an angry mob. Because some people don't see themselves as being accountable for what they say on the internet.
That being said, I'm going Anon on this one. haha
Tough question. One of many difficult problems that can arise out a society that values freedom. These problems may be one reason some people just want to surrender and clamp down on certain freedoms because the results are messy.
Ignoring vs. piling on: this has always been a choice/option, but I agree the internet has made it easier to pile on, less easy to ignore.
While this feeds the attention-mongers, I also think this enables even more group-think than there has been in the past. Both are the ugly underbelly of the many benefits that this hyper-connectedness brings.
I think it's still a net positive, which is why I stick around. :)
Fundamentally, I believe the information age will dilute fundamentalism.
In other words, no answer to your conundrum is necessary, at least not from a philosophical platform--case by case, maybe.
Consider historical trends. Those crazy people you speak of have been around forever. The most successful crazies are those that are able to control the masses by controlling the messages they hear, or censorship. I submit that media control has such a greater propensity for damage, rather than the strength of the message itself, that over time truth will win out. People know crap when they hear it. Here's an analogy... Think of the Nazi movement in 1936 Germany as a HUGE bubble filled with toxic gas. Hitler, in the control of the media, was able to keep pundits from throwing darts and popping the damn thing until the allies built a giant dart. I don't believe the bubbles can grow as big any more, not with everyone watching. My cup... half full.
What Reena Jacobs said.
Almost all of these "banned" books are just titles that some parents didn't want their children exposed to in public schools. For most children—in the US, at least—attending public school is not optional. Public schools are required to exercise sensitivity in their role as influential guardians of other people's children. And it's not like parents can't provide the "banned" books to their own children.
I'm surprised we haven't been talking about the Pentagon's destruction of nearly 10,000 copies of OPERATION DARK HEART this week. It's a blatant example of high-level censorship, but it was carried out, supposedly, in the name of national security. Wondering how everyone falls on that one...
I don't think that we have to censor the crazed attention seeker. I believe we should treat them like our little sister, if you ignore her then she will stop doing the thing that is annoying you. They are seeking attention so don't give it to them.
Just because it is written doesn't mean you have to read it and if by chance you read it you don't have to respond to it.
Just remember: TREAT THEM LIKE YOUR LITTLE SISTER. Words that we can all live by.
I think Reena Jacobs--as well as many others--had great points. I don't believe censorship, in and of itself, is bad, but I'm a person who believes that there are very few things that are truly, truly bad, so... Parents should be doing the censoring for their own children--and not anyone else.
As for whether we should ignore it or react, I think it depends, really. There's no one answer to everything, and in some cases, ignoring it is the right thing to do and in other cases, ignoring it causes more harm than good. I also believe that giving them attention isn't necessarily a bad thing because that also brings attention to the other side of the issue.
As for being easily provoked, the person being provoked has full control of that, and they decide whether they're going to be a target. You can't control what another person does and you can't control how you feel, but you can always control how you react. I'd say choose wisely according to the situation and keep the consequences of what you do in mind.
Prologue: Sorry about the length. It ended up being as much a comment as it is a demonstration (see Epilogue).
A big part of the problem with book burners and those flailing their arms while heaping attention on trolls is hypersensitivity, and it's being ground deeper and deeper into the fabric of society every day.
Two days ago, while discussing literary greats with a friend (who's a senior in high school), I mentioned Mark Twain and he said, "I've never read any of his work, but I know he was a terrible racist."
Stunned by this declaration, I asked him how he came to such a conclusion.
He said they learned about Twain in 8th grade and revisited the subject last year.
It truly astonished me to hear that a public school was 'teaching' such blatant falsehoods about such a compassionate man who also happens to serve as the bedrock for great American literature.
This revelation reminded me that there was once a time when you actually had to do something to be a racist. It wasn't enough to reference a word like 'nigger' in the context of social commentary, you had to march down Main Street in white garb and a pointy hat or categorically refuse to associate with members of a specific race or burn a cross in someone's yard. Indeed, being racist required more than mere utterance of a single word - it required action.
Ironically, this extreme sensitivity - the same that demands students refer to Halloween as the 'Harvest Festival' - is exactly what's required to raise a legitimately racist human being. Those who normally champion free speech are often the first to pick up torches and villify someone who writes or says a word like 'nigger' or 'faggot' - no matter what the context - and, in doing so, they bed down with the same extremists who have fought so hard to ban Harry Potter and Huckleberry Finn. It is society's extremes bleeding together and working in concert to undermine it.
We teach our kids to recoil before reflecting, to react without reasoning, and then wonder why society is consumed in a maelstrom of offended ideals, trumped-up scandals, and everyone pitching in to censor everything.
And isn't that sad?
Epilogue: I'm aware that a couple words in this post may have provoked a visceral reaction in some (if not all) who read it. In fact, in the initial draft, I actually wrote out 'the N-word' and 'the F-word', but while revising it, I thought, 'What the hell am I doing? Am I really censoring myself in a post decrying censorship? And what are people gonna think 'the F-word' is anyway?'
So, I wrote them as they are, and if you had no reaction to reading them, then your granite-like emotion-maker must do well in keeping you focused - just remember that indifference can be as insidious as overreaction.
If your initial response upon seeing them was to immediately presume I'm a racist or a homophobe - even if logic later prevailed and you reversed that conclusion - you need only look to it as an example of what I was trying to say.
If you thought (or are still thinking), "How insenstitive...Nathan should unconditionally delete comments containing words like this", well, then I am truly sorry I offended your extreme sensibilities...just not as sorry as I am that society must suffer them.
I have to be honest, I think the whole concept of banned books has become so irrelevant with the rise of the internet. How long has it been since "banning" did anything but make a book MORE popular?
I don't know. This month, everyone's expected me to get up on my little soapbox and yell about how censorship sucks. And yeah. Censorship sucks. But that's not what banning books is anymore.
You want to talk about censorship, talk about what doesn't get published. Yes, the primary reason a book doesn't get published is that it's not good, but there ARE other factors.
I don't think there's anyone out there who thinks it's as easy to get a conservative-leaning book pubbed as it is a liberal one. And as a blue state girl, I can only get so frustrated with that, but if I weren't?
And just a few years ago, publishing a book for kids with a gay character was practically unheard of, and now publishing barely bats an eye. Are people out there still freaking out? Of course. But people out there will ALWAYS freak out. And now, with the internet, the books will get out anyway.
We don't have to worry about them freaking out. We have to worry about what we won't publish. That's the only censorship that's still effective. And with self-publishing, even that's going down the toilet.
Nathan,
Was the removed comment above mine, perchance?
k10wnsta-
Sorry, yours got trapped by Blogger's new spam filter. Should be published now.
Ray Bradbury wrote "Fahrenheit 451," a novel, to defend freedom of expression. I'm sure it must be a banned book too somewhere. I guess success is the best defense against censorship.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and these are my conclusions: I'd like effective change, not soundbites. To that end, the best teachers I have ever had modelled their values in real-life examples of "show, don't tell." So what does it say when we shame someone because he's attempting to place shame where it doesn't belong? It's easy to copy a ribbon, write a post and slam someone; far harder to educate, model and protect the vulnerable by having frank discussion about sexuality. I vote for the latter.
Anyway, just my $0.02.
Ray Bradbury wrote "Fahrenheit 451," a novel, to defend freedom of expression. Not a bad protest. I'm sure it appears on a banned book list somewhere. The best protest is rewarding success like his and preventing anyone else from taking away my rights to read.
This is slightly unrelated to the post but I just need soome shoulder (/s) to cry on. As a new writer, I know I have to work on editor's terms and respond to everything positively and I did and I got a lot of praise for work being original, well prepared, excellent etc. But I find I'm always walking on eggs - if I even make a small change or suggestion, people get upset and delay the book. Even in the final M/s there are some editing flaws but the moment I point them out (to correct them), it gets people angry. So I have let go of small errors (like you know wrong capitalization of eastern region etc. and some too many brackets the editors has added - I thought commercial books should have no brackets..etc etc).
I don't mind being ragged and beaten about - but it is a current affairs book so this whole thing of blanking me out or delaying it if I even make a small suggestion (only the essential one, not the small one like above)kind of not right for the book.
Nothing to be done except bite my nails but is this common? Any shoulders?
Sorry to hear that, anon. The Forums area also a great place to connect with writers going through publishing pains!
That's a tough question, Nathan. On an individual level, ignoring the attention seekers is usually best (as you know well, running this blog).
But scaled to the size of the internet, I don't think it's even possible. Even if all the wisest people choose not to react, there will be plenty of well-meaning folks who give these guys attention (plus, you know, the media, which gets paid better every time book-burning nutjobs hit the national scene).
On the other hand, if this dog piling does end up creating more attention seekers, eventually might not the public get bored of even that? "Look, you're the sixth guy to ban a book on CNN this week. What makes you any different than the other five?"
I say we pick our battles wisely. That way when we do say something, it will be more likely to be heard.
You can't not fight them directly, even with a merited argument of your own. Aritstole pointed out that humans can make anything sound rational. And they will come right back with an argument that seems just as sold as yours.
The best way is to make fun of them using their own words and absurdities. They want attention but people laughing at them isn't it.
The guy who's trying to ban Speak works for a university. Is censorship really the message colleges and universities want to send to their students? I sent a message to the board of directors, asking them that very same question.
There is no easy answer. I am with the posters who say consider the source, consider if this person can really cause any harm (for example, if he/she has influence with a school board or libraries), and react in a calm and rational manner. I also agree that ignoring is almost impossible on the Intenet in that many other fellow crazies will pick up the theme. But major, respected news sources can ignore, which would keep the crazies away from the majority of people.
So I think you have to pick your battles. As Nathan said, "On the one hand, truth and decency and free expression are absolutely worth fighting for, and even if it's a mosquito biting you, you swat it."
Because even "just" a mosquito can give you a fatal disease.
What Mira said.
Great post!
@Nathan 6:13pm, Thanks for taking time to answer my question. I think you put it in perspective for me by calling it the "publishing pains". Guess there is no way to be born without going thru the birth pangs. Thanks.
I'm sympathetic to the argument that too many nutjobs are getting too much undeserved attention. There are a lot of crazies out there who have lasted way beyond their alloted fifteen minutes of fame.
The problem in keeping silent, though, just because another "wacko" has pulled another stunt is that if we do so for the very real concern of not wanting to give this person the very attention he or she craves, then we permit his or her actions to continue without condemnation. Maybe once, that's not such a big deal. Maybe twice, well, who really cares? But the third time? The fourth? The twentieth? At what point does the book-banning (or anti-Muslim slurs, or take your pick of what's been in the news lately) become a trend? At what point is the problem serious enough that we feel compelled to speak out and say, "This is unacceptable in our society"?
What happens if no one or not enough people speak out against those who would ban books or otherwise limit ideas or people's rights is that the flow of information itself becomes limited. People start receiving information only from the side that's speaking out. One of the previous commenters here discussed the question of the novel, Speak, whether it was erotic in nature and whether erotic material should be read by kids. As it happens, I blogged about Speak today (it's my pick for Banned Books Week this year) and why I want my kids to read it when they're adolescents. There's nothing remotely erotic about that book. It's about rape, trauma and depression in an adolescent who is afraid to speak about what happened to her. These are the facts about the book, but you would never know this if you only read the editorial written by the professor who most recently attempted to ban the book. For the facts, you need information from someone who is making the effort to present them.
Yes, this guy is getting more attention than he deserves. So did that pastor down in Florida recently. Look at the series of turnabout stunts he pulled. But I think we (the public) and the media bear some of the responsibility for that, because we eat these sensational news stories up like the cotton candy they are. That story deserved some reporting, but not the non-stop, there's-nothing-else-happening-in-the-world coverage it received.
Freedom of expression and intellectual freedom are hard. They're complex. Sometimes they're annoying. Sometimes people say things that make me want to punch them in the mouth. But the best thing we can do as writers is pick up our pens (or go to our keyboards) and express ourselves right back.
Sorry about that, everybody--especially Nathan. I kept getting error messages telling me that my comment wasn't posted. And then there were three of them. I was not, um, trying to pull an attention-getting media stunt. *hangs head*
Nathan, I can't delete the extras, so please get rid of them at your convenience. Again, sorry.
I suspect Tracy was just techno-inept, as I am, and posted three times in error.
But those posts point up -in a way- the problem of "ignore". If we ignore the destructive or annoying the media becomes dominated by it.
Just the appearance of the crazies' messages provide all the positive reinforcement the need to perservere and there is no way to reach them with negative reinforcement.
So what to do?
I just stopped to listen. I can hear traffic, two trains, kids playing b-ball down the street and a sprinkler next door.
But I'm not dominated by it, only the media is. I just finished an excellent sonnet and did not notice the noise at all.
We can learn to ignore ambient noise. If we want our internet, we're going to have to learn to do it here too.
tim pfau
Pay attention to what you believe Fight for what you believe to be true. Ignore all the crap.
Since most of my living was before the internet age, that's what I believe.
That said, fight if you need to. Fight against people who find homosexuality and rape (and witchcraft and wizardry, although I can't believe that's even a part of this) topics to be censored. Fight. Buy. Believe.
This is probably way too late in the conversation (and somebody may have already said so). But I have always felt that the best way to treat inappropriate, irresponsible use of media is the same way you treat a toddler's temper tantrum. You ignore it. Why give these bozos any more attention than they deserve? Then, quietly and positively, endorse that which you believe is good and true.
It's true that cream rises to the top. So why worry about some crazy stirring folks up? If they start acting on it, then maybe you'll have to take steps. And we all called to cry out injustice as we find it. But sometimes the most potent cry is the silent one.
I suppose it's a case of trusting that we're big enough to own the internet — it is just us talking, after all.
In the battle of ideas, will reason win out? I hope so.
Sure, there will be thousands of cranks, but it's not as if they will suddenly be spawned. Cranks exist already.
My fear is that the internet will be censored in subtle ways in the years to come. It's an on/off mechanism much like a swipe card door, and if ways can be found to link readily gleanable info about your IP address to sites, information etc, 'banning' could be achieved by such means.
However, I entertain such fears rarely (usually on Tuesdays at 2pm, over tea and a muffin) and I don't think it will come to that.
One thing I consider a privilege is being able to discern the difference first-hand between an internet world and an internet-free world. TV, radio, toothpaste, I take for granted — but not the net. Future generations won't have this Before & After Net Sense (though hopefully, they'll still have toothpaste.)
Taking the quote "Censorship=horrible," let me step out and be way unpopular here for a minute.
There's an old saying that my rights end where someone else's begin. I suggest that this is really what the debates over censorship are all about. I also want to suggest that there's a little blind spot, especially among writers, on the subject.
Most of us know very well that there are good reasons to censor certain information and keep it from public view: private medical records, the identities of sex crime victims, the reports of informants and spies where a revelation would lead to the death of the person reporting--the list is actually quite extensive.
The sticky point comes when personal rights are debated. Writer X may have every right to post hateful racist comments on a blog--but Blogger Z doesn't want the discussion hijacked into mindless screaming, and as the blog author, he has the right to mold the blog's image and direction.
Then there are values--no, you can't get away from the values debate, no matter how much you'd like to. There will be a line drawn somewhere--unless you're fine with having schools teach the joys of child marriage or sadomasochism to six year olds. Yes, that sounds absurd. But please, let's take the thing to its logical conclusion.
Between totalitarianism and the anarchy of the vile, there is little to choose. Democracy such as it is exists on a very small and fragile plain--and only survives in the struggle between all concerned--because we can all agree that we don't want someone else dictating our values, whether he's the censor or the pedophile. We grant the other person some small ground in trade for our own, but in the back of our minds, we know it doesn't really work--taken to extremes, it can't work.
May I suggest that nothing which depends on human beings ever will--in the long run?
And no, I don't believe--fortunately--that it all depends on us.
The possibility exists though, that the one you ignore will be the one who succeeds in making all books go through some sort of National Approval system before publishing.
I just want to say I LOVE "the Internet is greasing the crazyperson skids."
And I agree with you. No easy answers here. For me, it helps to focus on the issue and not use the crazyperson's name. At least I feel like I'm swatting the mosquito and not giving her too much blood that way.
As artists, we'd be hypocritical if we screamed First Amendment, but banned others from doing the same. Censorship becomes confusing because there will always be someone that pushes the line (much like a child under a parent's guidance)and moral laws have to be re-reviewed. It wasn't long ago that the Bible was banned for being immoral.
Whether it's a book, the Internet, movies, music or whatever, it's up to us as individuals to make an informed decision for OURSELVES what we deem is right and proper. Parents have the responsibility to be involved with what their children choose as recreation until the child learns to make an informed decision. As adults, we need to do the same. Notice I said "informed decision" because not everyone will agree with another individual's decision. It's a personal choice.
The ones that push the line will continue to push as long as they have an audience. Why do we cringe when we see celebrities on the news daily because of their (bad or good) choices? Because there is an audience.
If there's no audience for a book, show or blog, etc., the writer/creator will be forced to go away because no one cares.
But the reality is, the world's ideas of what is right or wrong are constantly changing. What was considered indecent 10 years ago is now acceptable. Therefore, censorship is under the gun because there is no right or wrong.
So the choice comes down to the individual.
Crazyperson, whackjobs, nutjobs, trolls, bozos, crazies, oddballs, attention whores, fame whores, etc...
What a sad world we live in, when writers and agents are reduced to name-calling entities to try to understand the pathology of human behavior.
Why in the holy hell of intelligent reasoning must you attach perjorative terms to fuel your arguments? I can't even begin to tell you how immature that is, and how it wrecks any semblance of a cogent explanation as to why you think we face such adversity in dealing with our fellow humans.
Here's a truism. In order to fight for what you believe in, you better damn well understand the humanness behind the face that fuels the kind of behavior being talked about here.
Furthermore, a prolonged look into your own heart might be in order before you even attempt to understand forces and motivations that drive a feeling, thinking human person to do things that maybe they wouldn't do under normal circumstances. And in this day and age, there are so many people living under such extreme conditions, I'm not surprised to see a lot of venting on the internet, or attention-seeking behavior.
Yes, the internet has given a troubled voice a chance to be heard. We may not like what we read, but we don't have to lose our humanity trying to understand it. That means, whenever possible be civil, courteous, empathetic and always compassionate when dealing with, or trying to understand difficult behavior that touches you personally.
There are a few things in this world that we have control over. One of them is our reaction to what we witness on the internet, or the adversity we face on a daily basis.
witliz-
Comment, thy name is irony.
Ishta - wow, thanks. :)
You've raised a hot topic, Nathan. I'm of two minds about this. As writers, we need to be able to stand up and speak about what we believe in, whether or not if fits within the accepted norm or current political agenda. We are often seen as the voice of the people. Silence us, and you silence that voice.
The severity of the offense does need to be considered, though. I've always believed that silence is permission. Hate mongering, for example, should have no place in our society. You can't just ignore it and hope it will go away.
We're lucky enough to live in countries where we can write freely about what we think. Freedom does come with the responsibility to do something about it when someone crosses the line.
The tricky part is knowing where the line starts and ends.
or to quote the drill sergeant in STRIPES, "lighten up, Francis."
Opinions, like excretory orifices, are impossible to argue against, and everybody's got at least one of each.
I never saw the value of censorship as a restrictive tool. Censors had to read a book in order to ban it. Prurient interest posing as moral superiority.
Banned book lists just enticed me to seek out the books. No one stopped my from reading them. The underground library's grapevine was pretty active before censorship faded in my youth.
The grapevine is faster than the Internet can ever be. So-and-so can split his drawers in church and it will be known across town before the service is over.
Buzz, Buzz, Buzz that's all censorship does. Bring it on.
Actually, banning books and freely speaking controversial opinions published on the Internet aren't that far apart in the buzz department. Bring it on.
I don't see anyone mentioning the fact that in the publishing world, there is a lot of "groupthink" going on, including you, Nathan - from my perspective.
If an anti-war sentiment seems to be out there, or anti-chocolate chip cookies or we love gays or we hate negativity (please note the pun there) THAT seems to be what agents are interested in. And who helps people get published? AGENTS. You are the ones who are banning books before they are printed because of your agendas and "groupthink" ideology.
If it were as easy as knowing exactly how many are going to be sold and that you can make money on it no matter what the content, great!
But an agent is a human being who has ideals and thoughts that only they rationalize into what they think is the Eden of the world and that only certain books will help people understand THAT is how it should be.
If you could open your own minds and see Eden from someone else's perspective, there would be a lot more great books out there than there is. Agents are the main stiflers, from my perspective. Because your opinions on CONTENT and not SALES put up the blockages LONG before there is a book on the shelf at all.
This content has nothing to do with writing ability, either. Just plain content. Don't make more of what I'm saying than what I'm saying.
kk-
Well, first of all Hannah did mention that. Tangent, sorry, but I am always mystified when people lead their comment with, "I don't see anyone talking about X." Why take an accusatory tone about what people aren't talking about, as if there's something wrong with someone not mentioning every possible reaction and every possible opinion? Anyway.
I don't know that I'd overstate the extent to which agents are a monolith of groupthink or that agents solely represent works with which they agree politically. People often accuse the industry of being a bastion of liberalism, but you need only look at the bestseller list to see that there are books across the political spectrum that are being published. I don't think deciding against publishing what is not considered economically viable remotely amounts to censorship, especially when there are so many avenues to publication and platform building outside of the industry. The publishing industry is capitalistic. If there's money to be made in publishing a book, someone is gonna publish it regardless of its political leaning.
I recently had to make a decision on this topic. Should I ignore the crazy? Or fight it? I think it comes down to picking your battles.
There's a difference between filtering and censorship. Censorship is imposing your choice on others. Filtering is making the choice for yourself. If I don't agree with a view, I'm not going to call attention to it by yelling about it or giving the crazy person a platform.
However, if it has already become an issue (due to the crazies yelling loudly enough that they are impossible to ignore, or because other people paid them attention when they shouldn't), that's the time to stand up and fight. At that point, ignoring the issue won't fix it any longer, and if I care about the issue, I need to take action.
Gently asking, is there a banned book a child really "needs" to read?
We have control over ourselves, our ideals and our actions and so we must work hard to communicate them when we can and to stand up for them when we determine they're in peril. Let the asses bray if your conscience says to; if your conscience indicates otherwise bray louder. ;-)
Remember: One person's crazy could very well be many people's hero. It's all in the subjective definition.
The argument that we should ignore fanatics as we might ignore a toddler's tantrum has a few logical flaws. First, toddlers generally aren't armed; fanatics often are. Second, there is a difference in vocal range. My four-year old can scream so loudly in a tantrum that our wind chimes vibrate. You still can't hear her next door. Fanatics can be heard across the globe.
Ultimately, I think everyone here is writing from within a fairly narrow niche. I would guess that all of the contributors to this thread are well-educated and care passionately about words, even if we might disagree on how and when to use them. This is, after all, the blog of a lit agent.
Widen the view a bit and the perspective shifts. Go historical, go global. The fanatics get coverage and they get followers even if we, within this niche, ignore them.
World catastrophes don't happen because too many people speak out against hatred and injustice. They happen because too many people remain silent. Yes, the internet widens the scope, but it doesn't change everything. There was newspaper coverage of the Holocaust. It wasn't a secret. The fires didn't die out -- and yes, I mean that both figuratively and literally.
We do not have the right to rest, complacent, in our cultural or historical moment. In our niche. We have a responsibility to speak out, to provide alternatives to fanaticism. It doesn't just go away.
The internet is not always in time.
http://tiny.cc/jztfy
I posted it on my blog to kick off Banned Books week~
http://remembershowdonttell.wordpress.com
Nathan - I re-read Hannah's post - she didn't actually come out and say "agent". I am talking about groupthink in general facilitated by agents. I wasn't actually going after liberalism nor conservatism. "Isms" seem to go in trends, anyway. That's why I felt the issue had not been discussed yet.
I understand the need to make the moolah, but if something is well-written and daring, why would an agent NOT want to take the chance on it? I sure would.
Yes, we need the cash to live, but isn't there a sense of pride and honor in knowing you helped facilitate a great literary publishing for the world? There is more to life than going along with what everyone else is doing. That is to include thinking a celebrity is a writer. Blech.
kk-
I wouldn't lump agents together on that count either. Agents take chances on books like that all the time. But if you want a world where daring literary works receive attention commensurate with highly commercial works I think you'd have to look hard at the culture as a whole. It's tempting to say oh, if agents just represented this type of book and if publishers just published this type of book it would be popular. I think the world is more bottom-up than that, and now more than ever. The fact is that daring literary works are out there, and the reading public is not seeking them out in large numbers. I don't think you can blame agents for that, particularly when agents are far, far, far more likely to be fond of daring literary works than the public at large.
Of course, we're talking about this at a time when daring work is a #1 NY Times bestseller. I'm not sure whose point that proves.
I think I had sort of demonized my publisher when I need indeed be grateful to him. We newbies also tend to be over reactive and take things personally.. (I'm the whining anon of yesterday). Actually the publisher has also spent enormous time and energy on my project while knowing fully well that I'm as an yet unpublished author as well as have no publicity platform. Reading this about daring new works not getting a chance - he actually gave me a chance. I wish I could delete my whining message of yesterday.
Nathan and Anonymous - I'm not trying to prove a point, just comment that in my experience and from what sounds like the experiences of others, the positions of agents and/or publishers on who gets published and who doesn't seems to a) be a groupthink issue and b) based on sales. You cannot plan on your book being wildly popular with people, whether you are a great writer or not. People like what they like. Agents like what they like. They represent what they like and chuck the rest. Doesn't matter if it's good. If you are writing to a specific market, you can hope they'll eat it up (I for one have had enough of vampires). However, if you are an awesome writer and have something importantly relevant to say, why would an agent not represent an obviously important piece because it may not sell enough in their minds because they know it's important but not their opinion? Maybe because if it isn't their opinion, they think it won't sell. I think of agents like movie producers - you throw in your chips and hope you get a return. No guarantees.
What I've been meaning in all these posts is that it seems that chips are more than not thrown in where there seems to be a sure thing like a previously published writer or a celebrity - one has a public platform and the other is continuing their show or whatever. I for one will never buy a child-rearing book from someone like Madonna. Her background doesn't prove her an expert, but she gets her book published because some think she can sing. For me, that removes a lot of respect and credibility for agents and publishers at large. I am waiting to see if a political piece get published by Lady Gaga, that's how low I think the publishing world has sunk. That is what frustrates and angers real writers. And may also be a part of the cause less books get read. The publishing of crap hurts us all.
Nathan, I totally understand what your job is. I just think unpublished writers are given the shaft because of the cultural "groupthink" that goes on and prevents a lot of great writing to be hidden from us that we are all the sorrier for not getting to read.
Anonymous, I get you. But I don't think the lack of a public platform is an excuse to not get published. Everyone had to start somewhere. And whining is okay, it comes with the territory!
kk-
Still seems to me that your posts are more about wanting certain types of books to be more popular than they are. And for that I think you'd have to take a hard look at the reading public.
Good question, Em-Musing. Gently replying, there is probably no single banned book a child needs to read. But freedom is not a matter of necessitarianism or utilitarianism. Apply the test of necessity to all freedoms and you would soon whittle them down to whatever some authority thinks we need, not what we want.
Most human activities can be dismissed as unnecessary by other people. Most HUMANS can be dismissed as unnecessary by other humans. Dr. Samuel Johnson famously asked what was the utility of any new-born baby. He had a point.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 9/27/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
JacketFlap tags: How to Write a Novel, Can I Get A Ruling?, Add a tag
Oh, to title a chapter or just go ahead and call it Chapter 72. One of the perennial questions facing any writer.
Do you notice chapter titles when you're reading? Do you like them? Dislike them? Not even realize they're there?
Where do you stand?
If you're reading in an RSS reader or via e-mail, please click through for the poll:
I wish there was an option for "It depends on the type of story and the way it's being told."
For the most part, I'm not a fan of chapter titles, but in certain books they work really well. (Quirky books with chapters like "In which our hero discovers he's a fish" for example.)
It's a stylistic choice... and I think as long as it really is a thoughtful CHOICE, and not just something the author does for the hell of it, it's fine.
Asimov had a great way to use titles that I haven't seen many others use.
He put titles on the big "Acts" of the book, maybe 10 or 20 but just numbered the other ones.
It let you know when you ran across a chapter with a title you were in for a major change and the numbers just broke up the scenes.
I like numbers in fancy script above a black line. If there are little mini-titles I start to wonder if the writer is really writer. Maybe chapter titles are a pseudo synopsis for the disorganized.
I love chapter titles, both as reader and writer. They are extra work for the writer, but not the reader.
Each of the three books of my series has about sixty short chapters, averaging about 1,200 words each, all named and numbered and listed in several contents pages. My chapter titles comment, sometimes ironically, on what happens in each chapter, and the contents pages have the extra benefit of giving me a good guide to where I put things. Oddly, I found it easier to come up with 180 or so chapters titles than three titles for the three books!
But I have no Booger Bombs, Underwear Acid or Dog Poo Shoes! Yet...
I can't remember the last adult book I read that included chapter titles. I enjoy them quite a bit in YA books, though.
I'm of two minds about chapter titles. I think they're very useful especially when dealing with two POVs. They can help the reader to distinguish between one character and another, but unless they really add something to the story, I tend to find them distracting.
It's interesting though that my most recent work does have chapter titles because my agent thought they might help for the middle grade audience. But one of my beta readers felt they gave too much away.
So all of that to say... I don't know. I can take them or leave them. But mostly, I prefer to leave them.
I am absolutely for Chapter Titles. I agree with Natalie Whipple that the titles perk your interest in reading the next chapter. Some books really don't need them though. I think that it totally depends on the vibe of the book. For instance, Kiersten White's book, "Paranormalcy", is completely amazing with the chapter titles. It makes the book more playful and fun. Many of the older classic books that I have read lack the chapter titles. It may just be a new thing to incorporate titles into the chapters. At any rate, I like them. I am using chapter titles in the novel that I am writing just because I feel like they are needed to give a little glimpse into the coming chapter.
I'm of two minds about chapter titles. I think they're very useful especially when dealing with two POVs. They can help the reader to distinguish between one character and another, but unless they really add something to the story, I tend to find them distracting.
It's interesting though that my most recent work does have chapter titles because my agent thought they might help for the middle grade audience. But one of my beta readers felt they gave too much away.
So all of that to say... I don't know. I can take them or leave them. But mostly, I prefer to leave them.
It depends. If they are something other than a number, I like what some authors do, giving the chapter title as the name of the POV character. That's what I did with my first. My second book needs to rely more on location, date and time, so I am using that for chapter titles.
I'm a sucker for a good title.
Julie Kingsley: Dog Poo Shoes?! Hilarious!! Where can I buy my 4th grader your book?!
How can you go wrong with a chapter title called "The Cannibal Tree" (from a Christopher Moore book)? I like chapter titles if they add another layer to the chapter's meaning.
Thought I'd be in the minority, but I was pleased to see most people like chapter titles. (At least so far.)
I like to read the Table of Contents before I read the book. It's kind of like a preview, in a way, of the story you're about to read.
Always depends on the book. I will never forget, however, the chapter titled "The Kiss" in Louis Sachar's Sixth Grade Secrets. Juxtaposed with the chapter itself, it was utter brilliance. To this day, it still makes me cackle.
Inventing chapter titles is one of my greatest ways to prevaricate.
Closely followed by important research into character names and their meanings.
Word verification: ament - almost lament, but not quite.
I don't really notice them. My husband told me while reading my WIP that he likes chapter titles, for him they set the tone. So now I try to keep that in mind while I'm trying to come up with titles.
With my personal writing, I normally didn't (yes, past tense) do chapter titles. I changed things up by doing them on the last project and . . . LOVE 'EM! Why? Well, the title says something about the chapter and, when I print out the ToC I basically have an outline of my story. Pretty nifty . . . if I do say so myself.
Depends on the book. If it's a complex book and chapter titles keep me from feeling confused or lost - it's very good they are there.
If it's a simple linear plot with one, maybe two, pov's, then they probably aren't necessary.
I don't mind them when they are there, and sometimes - again, with a simpler book - they add a certain sine qua non that gives a touch of panache to what might otherwise have been an ordinary story.
So I'm back to: It depends on the book.
I'm glad you asked this, Nathan, because I realize now that I'd assumed chapter titles had gone the way of printers' indicia (and printers, period). Nowadays, if we get any such thing as chapter titles, it's usually "data lines," the kind of thing that types out graphically on a film screen:
NEW YORK ... 3:02 A.M. TUESDAY ... THIRTY ALIEN SHIPS IN CONTACT
I loved the old style titles that ran along the lines of "Chapter the Third, in Which Mildred and Hortense Find Themselves Between a Rock and a Hard Place, and Learn That all Little Boys Aren't Made of Snakes and Snails, and Take That, Julie Kingsley."
While not looking to inflict such retrograde palaver on the world, I may consider using chapter titles, thanks to this poll. It seems to me they could help define the arc of action, as long as they're somehow integrated into the voice and concept of the work in question.
And isn't the work always in question?
-Porter
If they add to the book, I love chapter titles. Rick Riordan's chapter titles in the Percy Jackson series always made me smile, but Chapter 6: I Become Supreme Lord of the Bathroom made me laugh out loud.
In most cases, I just pass right over chapter titles and therefore prefer them to just be numbered. However when the chapter titles follow a theme like in Scott Westerfeld's The Last Days, then I really look forward to them because it's almost like a game :)
I've noticed while reading several different Stephen King novels that he has used different chapter formats in different novels. Sometimes a succint title, sometimes just a number, and at another time he might have a couple of sentences that address plot points covered in the chapter. I like the latter. It gives me a peek at what's to come and tends to make it harder to stop reading.
I'd like to put this to use in my own MS, but I'm not sure how well an agent/editor might receive it. After all, we're talking about Stephen King here. He has a lot more say than a debut novelist, I think. Also, I'm not that clever. :(
I like them only if they are funny. Serious ones don't work for me.
For me, I think it really depends on genre. As others have commented, chapter titles can sometimes give too much away, particularly in a tightly-crafted suspense/thriller. On the other hand, sometimes they add great flavor. I'm reading Joe Abercrombie's FIRST LAW trilogy right now, and he does an excellent job with chapter titles. Frequently they simply comprise a tiny snippet of dialogue that epitomizes the theme of the chapter or a particular character's development.
I think the most creative use of chapter titles I've seen is in Italo Calvino's IF ON A WINTER'S NIGHT A TRAVELER, in which the chapter titles join together to form one long sentence. Very appropriate for a tale about beginnings.
I don't think they are essential but I like them. Sometimes they offer little teasers that make me want to hurry through the pages just that tiny bit faster than I already am (assuming it's an engrossing book) to see what's going to happen next.
And, like swampfox, I like to peruse the Table of Contents just to get a flavor for the book.
Actually, now that I think about it, most of the authors I've read who used chapter titles used them to good effect.
Others, like Khaled Hosseini, didn't use them and it again seems an appropriate choice for the overall feel/tone of his books.
I love good chapter titles. It does depend on genre, though. And frankly, as a writer, I often leave them off. If I can't make them compelling and interesting then forget it. And if I don't have time, then... forget it.
Like Joseph said, I think the chapter titles should have an effect and a purpose. It's like every word in the novel should serve the story's purpose; so should chapter titles.
I'm with Joseph L Selby on this one - a chapter title with a function or metaphor/riddle is so cool! But - sometimes the riddle gives away the secret of the chapter and that's not good.
For a fast pace book I really don't like 'em. Just leave me with the story and action please!
I love chapter titles if they fit the style of the book. GOING BOVINE is one of the best examples I've seen. Libba Bray's use of "In Which..." to introduce each chapter is unique, hilarious, and sets the tone beautifully. Of course Libba Bray is a genius, so of course she's going to choose amazing chapter titles!
It depends on the type of novel.
I like them if they're clever. I especially love the quasi-Victorian kind, e.g., "In which the Space Monkeys raid a Seven-Eleven and Discover Something Not to Their Advantage." But if they don't add anything, nix them!
In my own work, I sometimes use them and sometimes don't; depends on the style of the book.
Sometimes chapter titles work. For example, I loved them in Becoming Naomi Leon. And in Harry Potter they acted as a sort of teaser that made each chapter more fun to read the first time through. But if they don't serve a purpose, they just get in the way and end up taking me out of the story.
Occasionally I'll notice them, but for the most part I just ignore the chapter title or lack-thereof and plow on to the story.
Clever chapter titles are all right, but in my experience, it's tough enough to come up with one good title for the whole book, let alone twenty or thirty others.
If they're totally flowing out of your fingers as you're typing along, great. But if you're forcing them, you'd probably be better off without them.
I can't think of them to save my life, but I love JK Rowling's chapter titles in all the Harry Potter books. She has a rare and beautiful gift for them.
Honestly, though, I don't usually notice them in other writers' works.
It depends on the story. I find chapter titles help when they fit into the style of writing. Chick Lit is a good example.
In a thriller, or any fast paced book, I don't stop to read titles.
Totally depends on the type of story, but I think they can be almost a form of poetry where you like the sound of it (intrigues you to read farther) but don't understand it fully until you have read the chapter.
Lord of the Rings chapter titles, for example, went on to inspire movie score track names, DVD chapter menu titles, and many other things because of their quality.
It's a way for the author to comment on his work to the reader, like an aside in a play. I enjoy everything from "Chapter 9: On Water Beetles and Saber-rattling, Including a Brief Treatise on the Qualities of Pseudo-Semantics" to "Chapter 21: Death from Above!"
I've always liked long, evolved chapter titles. Since buying an e-reader, I crave them. If I hit "go to", a chapter number just isn't enough of a clue to get me to the right spot.
I like them when they're well done, especially witty, and don't give anything away, but I find these incredibly hard to do....
Also, in multi-POV novels (as was previously mentioned) they can be a life-saver, and if the story is skipping around through time or place titles can help start the reader off right..
I can take them or leave them, both as a reader and a writer. I like them if they're evocative and intriguing without giving too much away, or if they're humorous; either case will make me want to read on. But I hardly notice or care if they're not used, or if they're rather boring. I skipped right over them in JONATHAN STRANGE AND MR. NORELL, for example, but liked them quite a lot in the Harry Potter books, and as someone above mentioned, found them quite useful in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.
I not only like chapter titles, I like it when the put little quips at the beginning.
I suppose I like them when they're well done, like that they can give hints (no matter how obscure) about what is to come. (Though, the chapter title "Phoenix's Lament" all but told me straight-out that Dumbledore was going to die in Harry Potter, and I didn't want to know in advance.) But at the same time, I don't miss them when they're not there.
When I'm writing, however? I always give at least a one-word title to my chapters because it makes it easier for me to find specific scenes later on if I need to rework them.
I've got to admit, I like them when they're clever, when they're goofy not so much. For example, I really like the ones in "Getting to Happy" and thought the ones in "Breaking Dawn" were kinda goofy. But that's just me. I don't do my chapter titles until the book is done, and only if I'm really feeling titles. I'm on my third book and so far 2 out of 3 have titles.
I title every chapter when I write. When I am reading, I love to figure out what words of the chapter makes the title significant. I view titles as a teaser, an insight of what is to come.
I like quirky, meaningful, and/or abnormal chapter titles; but most of the times, I don't actually notice them as I read.
In some books, I appreciate chapter titles. Books like The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter benefit from their chapter headings, which can ground the reader in a book as long as the former or illuminate the text as they sometimes do in the latter.
But in other fiction, particularly literary fiction which comprises most of my reading, I really dislike chapter titles. I don't even like numbered chapters most of the time, preferring simply a new page with the text beginning mid-page, as in A Mile Down by David Vann.
If they're used well, I do like epigraphs or quotations at the beginning of chapters.
I guess you could say I have mixed feelings. If they're well done, I look at them. The ones that get me are those such as John Maberry uses in his Joe Ledger novels, where they are not so much titles as times and locations. As far as my own writing goes, I'm horrible at titles so I won't use them on my chapters. Just numbers for me, thank you.
I love them. I always study them and see if I can guess how they relate to what's to come.
Like so many others here, I enjoy chapter titles when they are well done. As for my own WIP, I have titles for each of my chapters because they tell ME what is covered in that chapter. They just popped up while I was working on the outline. Not sure if they will stay or go. Some will definitely require revision if they stay, but some of them are fun or ironic or both. So maybe they will get to stay.
Can't stand them. I think they are stupid, honestly.
I'm reading a good thriller right now and my only complaint so far are the chapter titles, which are alternating between on-the-nose and baffling.
Just say no.
It depends on the story. Sometimes I skip right over them or I'm fine with simple numbers. In some books, they really contribute to the story, by making you think about connections.
I voted that I skip past them, but more accurately: I forget them. Or I can't keep them in my head (I'm making myself sound really absent-minded, -sigh-). Especially the ones that go, "Chapter Eleventy-One: In which this, this, this, this, and this happen." If I remember the entire thing, then I've got spoilers. If I do not remember the entire thing, then I'm inevitably distracted while reading because I have this urge to flip back every few pages and check my progress through the title list. Weird.
I love the idea of chapter titles. They can be suspenseful enough to make me keep reading, even when I know I should put the book down--or beautifully written in a way that just enhances the manuscript. If I'm really absorbed in a book, though, I don't even notice them, and I hate when an author tries to be clever in their chapter titles, but doesn't quite get it right. It starts the next section of the book with a feeling of, "Oh. Why would I want to read about that?"
Personally, I only use chapter titles (and loooong ones) during NaNoWriMo ;D
I say either do fantastic chapter titles or none at all. Titles like "At the bookstore" or "Mary makes a friend" are worse than useless.
Chapter titles need to add to the story in some way, the same way every word in the story needs to be there for a reason.
If the chapter title makes me laugh, or adds suspense, or cleverly sets the tone of the chapter, then it's all good.
Otherwise, just leave blank and get on with the story.
I've noticed a lot of shorter chapters and lack of naming in kids books lately (including YA)...trend?
I like chapter titles. I think some are very relevant and worthwhile, whereas others really suck. A lot.
Like, JK Rowling's chapters are good. Very good in fact. I always read hers.
But others are just....terrible. I can't think of any outright examples, but I certainly have read a few and thought to myself "yeesh, what where they thinking?"
If novels were ladies, then chapter titles would be eyeliner. Some can rock it and some can't
I usually skip right over chapter titles. Two exceptions: I got Deathly Hallows on the night of the midnight release, and I read every single page from beginning to end. So I literally read the dedication, and then the chapter titles, etc.
I always skipped Twilight's chapter titles (they were usually one-word, vague blandness that didn't matter) until Jacob's part in Breaking Dawn. He had the most HILARIOUS chapter titles, and I enjoyed them very much. And once I realized that Stephenie Meyer actually chose her chapter titles as Bella would have chosen them, I went back and read all of the previous chapter titles and was sort of awed at how Bella-esque they all were. I'm not a Twihard, but I just found that sort of neat.
I love chapter titles. If well done, they can tell you so much...kind of like a great pitch.
Chapter 1, Chapter 2, etc. I ignore. If an author gives me some verbiage, I pay attention.
Personally, I like chapter titles beyond numbers since I'm a fan of pun-ishment. Those readers who ignore my titles lose out on some of the fun.
Most of the time I kind of don't like them. They distract me, like, "Ooh how does this random word play fit into this chapter I wonder?" and I go in expecting something that I'm probably going to be wrong about.
Or worse, the chapter title gives something away I'd rather have found out on my own.
I have seen some cool uses for chapter titles before when they serve a function to the story. I've seen them used well to indicate time/place when the passage of time or the moving from place to place is important to the story.
I like titles--and voted accordingly. But I'm really wondering what agents think! How did you vote, Nathan?
In non-fiction they have purpose, but not in fiction.
I don't care for chapter titles. They wake me up and remind me that I'm reading a book. I don't like being pulled out of the story magic.
Well done chapter titles (especially if there's a table of contents) help me keep the story straight in my head.
Or even better, they help me find that one thing that guy said before they got on the airship, that didn't seem to mean anything at the time, but now I get it and I want to see what else I missed!
That said, though, I have no preference. I'll read anything. It's just that I remember a story better if the chapters are titled well.
Yes, although I don't usually give chapt titles a lot of thought, they make it easier if I'm reading more than one book at a time. And if I am explaining the book to another person I can find the subject matter with ease.
Right now I'm more upset with not being able to log on Fri night.
uhmmmmm......ms.gail5325
Chapter 5: I love them when they are witty and intriguing, hate them when they are spoilerific!
I don't really notice chapter titles one way or another, except for Gene Stratton Porter's (early 20th-century Indiana novelist and naturalist) books, where her chapter titles read like this: "Wherein Freckles Strives Mightily and the Swamp Angel Rewards Him." I mean seriously...how can you resist that kind of an invitation to read on?
It depends. Most of the time, if I'm really into the story, I don't even notice them. [Often I don't even notice the numbers!] But if there's a huge passage of time, or POV switch or suddenly we're "back in the 1800s" when we've been in the 1980s--I like a little heads up (nevermind why we'd be darting between the 1800s and the 80s)
And I never use chapter titles of my own. I feel it kind of pegs me down and spells out something that doesn't need to be spelled out. (hopefully).
I especially like the kind similar to the scene titles used in the sitcom FRASIER. Great wit.
Sometimes I love them. Sometimes I ignore them. But I never hate them.
Personally, it depends upon the book. As a rabid fan of an incredibly popular series, I was one of the fans who go crazy trying to figure out what the chapter titles might tell us about the forthcoming book.
Except in that case, I don't really pay that much attention.
I don't miss them if they're not there, but I like them when they're clever. I love the way Stephanie Meyer changed her chapter titles in Breaking Dawn when the POV changed to Jacob. I don't have them in my WIP but if I think of something suitable and witty at some point in the process, I won't hold back.
I love chapter titles mainly because of Robert Aspirin. His Myth series always had a humorous quote from a famous or supposedly famous person to go along with his title. When all you have is a chapter number I have no idea what to expect or where things are heading in the story. That may sound silly but I like to have little clues as to what is in store for me.
Blessings,
Daniel L Carter
Author of The Unwanted Trilogy
The most common argument against chapter titles seems to have to do with leaving the flow of the story uninterrupted. But if that's the concern, why have chapters at all?
Chapter titles, when properly done, add fantastic accent to a story. Harry Potter was mentioned by other commenters, and it certainly contains some of the most well-conceived chapter titles in modern literature. But if you were to step back a hundred years and peruse The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, how could you not want to read a chapter dubbed 'The House of Death Floats By' or 'All Full of Tears and Flapdoodle'?
I think it's up to the author in that it represents a style of writing. I enjoy them, though I can live with out as well.
In children's books for example, they can serve to give the younger reader a sense of what's coming I've noticed as well.
Furthermore it can be a humorous thing that gives one the sense of the absurd, or say in horror or dramatic writings it gives one a sense of the emotional content you may feel in the coming reading, further adding to the emotional content of the book reading.
Overall, it depends on the book and the author and I honestly think they still have a credible place in today's books.
Some books I've loved them (Stardust by Neil Gaiman) and others I could take 'em or leave 'em (Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery), but generally speaking, I'm a fan. Strangely enough, though, for a reader who loves chapter titles, I almost never use them in my own writing.
When they're great, they're great. Whether they're quotes, original witticisms or just the name to clarify the speaker/POV. I like them best when they express something deep, funny and seemingly unrelated to the writing...until you finish the chapter. And then, "Wow, that was brilliant."
I tended to use them, but felt they were out of favor. Now I'm trying to remember what I deleted because WHO THE HECK CARES WHAT'S OUT OF FAVOR?! This is MY book, Jack. 'Kay, I feel better now.
Possibly I was being a wuss--oh, the pressure of being brilliant for 70+ chapter titles. (No pressure 'til I overthought the whole thing.)
Chris Moore's often astound me.
Them's my two cents, NickB
word ver: opaches: Members of the Apache Nation as lead by Oprah.
I dislike chapter titles as they are usually telling me what's ahead and I want to find out for myself. Especially in very old books which can list all the things about to happen and that really annoys me.
Chapter titles are an interruption An aggravation.
Hey, I guess I don't like them! (:
I enjoy them when they're well done: adding a touch of mystery so that I'm curious about the chapter to come. The end of a chapter is a good place to put a book down, so if a chapter title piques my interest to read on, it has done its job. One of my favorite books with chapter titles is Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell.
But the writing within the chapter can do that just as well. In that case, I don't particularly care if the chapters are simply numbered.
One thing I do dislike: poetry verses at the top of chapters. It breaks the flow of the story for me, as they are in a different voice and I need to shift mental gears to read them. I like poetry, so if I find the verses well-written, I'll skip them while reading the book and then go back and read the all verses straight through. Same goes for jokes/witty quotes at the top of chapters.
I've tried reading the verses/jokes first and the book last, but I have a bad habit of glancing below the title and ruining future plot events for myself. I call this my "wandering spoiler eye." :)
I use single/double word titles, as a way of indicating for myself that this is where the story takes another turn, and what kind of turn. Picture: Plunder, Discovery, Pursuit, About Face, Denouement. I haven't even told you what my WIP is about, and you already have a feel for the story. Granted, these are the standard parts of any good adventure, but how often do our readers actually think about that?
For me it depends. My own WIP jumps back and forth through time and space so much I find chapter headings to be invaluable, but titles I can take or leave, depending on how witty or hilarious they are (for reference I tend to enjoy reading them, but can't write them that way to save my life).
I am on the fence about them. In the case of YA and Middle Grade Fiction I think that they aren't needed but a good edition to the story. I remember reading books as a kid and before I would read the chapter I would the title and try to find the meaning in the chapter. It was just something that I found to be engaging.
Now though, when it comes to what I read now, I think that they just get in the way. I don't know if it is because I have become impatient. So here I am sitting on the fence and my vote is for Yes in some cases and No in others. By the way with my impatience has come indecisiveness.
I only like them if they can be done well. I need them numbered, to keep me from going insane, but any farther, and it really has to be done right to make it good. And of course in saying that, I'm being picky, as "right" is subjective.
Like, to me, a chapter title lies around the same lines as song titles and episode titles. I hate it when they're like a quote from said chapter/song/episode. Sometimes I like them a bit more obscure, like outside references.
Long story short, I prefer them just numbered
When used properly, chapter titles are an absolute treat and make me feel closer to the story/author as a reader.
But on a few occasions, after having paid attention to the chapter title and wondering as to its significance, I've been let down because either 1) I am unable to figure out exactly WHAT the author intended by the title (this tends to make me feel like I'm missing the entire point of the writing, which is not a good thing as it may make me think twice about picking something up by the same writer), or 2) I'm completely in awe of the mysteriousness of the title and strive to figure it out.
I realize this is a bit of a catch 22, but really, if I have a choice between an author who is a pompous twit with a fabulous story-telling gift or a newcomer with an equal talent who can relate to the reader? i will go with the new comer every time.
I try to title my chapters, but it doesn't always work. As far as chapter titles in published books, I don't really pay attention. (Except in the Harry Potter books, because those were always interesting.)
Interesting topic ,,, I think of chapter titles as very old fashioned, and love them in those older books, but they seem extraneous and too "cute" in modern works.
Very interesting question. I like them when they seem to fit--my 8-year-old son loves them, as they signal either the beginning or the end of a chapter he's supposed to read.
They're kind of like headlines, but as noted, somewhat old fashioned.
The Autobiography of U.S. Grant, commissioned and published by Samuel Clemens, makes excellent use of them. They sometimes help to focus the reader, as a topical sentence.
But mostly, in my own stuff, I use merely Roman numerals--another somewhat old fashioned convention, but serving much the same purpose, as it shows the reader progression is being made...
Sorry. Somewhat distracted. Watching the Bears walk over my beloved Packers...
It depends.
As a reader I have no fuss. If the story is a page turner I don't even take note of the chapter titles.
As a writer I honestly find no need to them. One day maybe I will use them. But for now they're just there for the sake of being there.
I like them. When done right, they give a little flavor of the chapter ahead and a little pull to get me to keep reading.
Think about all the great title chapters just in the Harry Potter books:
Book 1, Chapter 1: The Boy Who Lived
Book 1, Chapter 3: The Letters from No One
Book 1, Chapter 17: The Man with Two Faces
Again, when done right they can be very effective.
I usually don't pay attention to chapter titles, but when they're funny I can't resist. For example, the Percy Jackson series has hilarious chapter titles.
Chapter 1: "I Accidentally Vaporize My Pre-Algebra Teacher"
I mean, come ON! Who can resist a title like that? Although I admit that I might be biased, I never did like Pre-Algerbra.
I love chapter titles if they are indicative of the writing style. For instance, "The House of Drainage, Embalming, and Beautification" makes fun of a somber place. Reflects the subtitle of the novel, a dark comedy.
I skip right past them, not on purpose, but just to get to the next part. I won't even notice them. But if I love the book, I'll read it again - sometimes right after I finish. Then I'll enjoy and savor the chapter headings.
I don't even like writing chapters, to be honest. My stories come out in a series of scenes, and I end up arbitrarily chopping those into 10-15 chunks of chapters around 5-10K words long as part of the editing process. The book, for me, is a linear and cohesive whole, and if it weren't for what everyone else thought, I'd leave chapters out entirely and just have my spaces between scenes.
Nah I don't like them or need them. Numbered is fine :) Least then I can say 'just till next chapter then I zzz'
http://damselinadirtydress.blogspot.com
If the book is flowing nicely and it can't be put down, then I don't find there is really any need to be looking at the name of the chapter I'm itching to read next.
I wouldn't say they were always necessary. I like them when they're funny or witty and fit in with the style of the rest of the book, I don't like them when they just look pretentious. You're probably safer without them, unless you know you can really make them work.
I like chapter titles in theory, but in practice I tend not to notice them.
I'm pretty ambivalent on chapter titles. But (for all you Potter fans out there) the best use of them I've seen is in a book called "Go Quest, Young Man" by K.B.Bogan.
Each Chapter title has 2 Titles and the second is a piss-take of the first while also sending up a Fantasy story cliche. The book is really brilliant, can't believe she never wrote anything else! Part Pratchett, part Potter, all good!
I think chapter titles are great if they mean something, but they're not necessary. Sometimes I go back mid-chapter and try to figure out what the (bleep bleep) is the connection between the title and what's going on in the story. When I figure it out, I feel smart. When I don't, I just get irritated and wish they'd leave off titling.
There are such things as Chapter Titles? o___0
I particularly love clever ones in YA--Rick Riordan has the best chapter titles EVER, though I also remember spending time before the release of Half Blood Prince--CHAPTER titles were released and it was great fun to debate what they meant. In adult books they don't always seem necessary, but sometimes are nice.
Gotta love chapter titles. There's just something a tad more more creative about them than 1, 2, 3, etc., etc...
Chapter titles can set a certain tone. They work well if the novel is light or comic. I'm not sure they do much in more serious fiction.
I do love them though.... As my current project is both light and comic, I've enjoyed trying to set just the right tone with fun (hopefully funny) chapter titles
I skip chapter titles. In fact I usually don't even notice when I start a new chapter, especially if the book has really drawn me in.
Chapter titles are something I notice after I read the book when I go back through and look at the table of contents and think "oh, I see what the author did there. Clever."
I like chapter titles when used in the following two ways:
1. To add humor, ie Diana Wynne Jones (HOWL'S) or Patricia Wrede (DEALING WITH DRAGONS).
2. To clarify POV, ie George R.R. Martin
I love chapter titles when they are intriguing and well chosen, like in Oscar and Lucinda.
The last time I even noticed anything at the top of a chapter was in the 80s when I was reading Robert Asprin's "Mythadventures" series. He used quotes to good effect; they sounded important and profound, but when read in the context of the story's action at a given point, they took on a humorous, often ironic meaning.
When done that way, chapter titles are good; they add to the story. Long chapter titles or those that reveal too much are simply a distraction.
A good chapter title will suck the reader right on into the chapter to find out what that title means. My favorite chapter titles were written by Earl Emerson. He doesn't use them in every book, but when he does: SO effective.
This blog, Nathan, goes into your chapter titled "It's So Hard To Get a Rise Out of People."
:-)
-p.
I'll read them, but for the most part I don't pay attention to them. I certainly don't use them in my own writing; coming up with a book title is hard enough! To come up with nifty chapter titles every few pages...no thanks. :P
Usually, chapter titles annoy me, but they don't keep me from continuing to read. Once in a while, I come across a book where the chapter titles just seem to fit. So, consider chapter titles carefully.
I think chapter titles can be practical during the writing process, if only to allow easy reference to events that happen during that chapter. It's easier to find that chapter where cake leads to hijinks when you have a chapter titled 'Cakescapades', for example.
In terms of published books, I could go either way. If the author's particularly clever with their chapter titles, then more power to them. Certainly, they do no worse harm than possibly running the risk of spoiling a major event in a chapter. Usually, I find chapter titles most helpful in rereads and that sort of thing, when I'm looking for specific passages.
Rick Riordon is a prime example of a writer who understands how to create a chapter title. His are hilarious and dead-on for his market readership.
Joan Didion uses them to good effect in the beginning of "Play It As It Lays." The novel starts with several short chapters each in the voice of one of the primary characters. Those chapters are titled with the person's name to clue the reader that she/he is the narrator.
I'm wondering about how chapter titles even began...Perhaps they trace back to when novels were serialized, eg. Dickins. Presumably each new serialized publication would have a unique title and writers adopted that practice for published full length works.
I'm in favor of chapter titles, especially when they tempt the reader to read on to find out what they mean.
I look at the list of chapters before I read the book. It's one way to pique my interest.
I love them. But I have such a hard time thinking of ANY title (even title for the novel) there's no chance I'll ever have titles for each chapter.
Chapter titles?
A simple Chapter 27 is best.
But if editors want chapter titles (and they write the cheques) they these must be crafted as carefully as a newspaper headline.
And editors may want the chapter titles to adhere to policy on title lines. This is common in children's books, I think.
I don't mind them. I like them if they're there since some serves as POV pointers it helps me to get into the right mindset before I start the chapter. If there're none, they aren't miss.
dickens. 'nuff said.
Chapter titles would be nice if publishers would bother putting them in the page headers in the book. They make more sense when you can see what the darned title is as you read. But no, you get the book title and a page number. And I don't flip back and forth (unless I don't like the book anyway and am going to put it down). So they're lost on me.
You know... I've been wondering about the necessity of chapters at all. Where did that structure come from? Granted if you're switching story lines from one character to another an asterisk break or simply a gap would work, but then you might as well do a chapter break. Still, I think the idea of chapters causes too many writers/authors to fall into the trap of preconceived structural norms. They become afraid of a chapter getting too long or being too short, which really it should just be about what best serves the story. Out with chapters, I say! Unless they serve a distinct function that makes the story better.
I love chapter titles to death! I feel like the chapter titles tell me something about the book and, in turn, the author. The chapter title sets the mood for the chapter, and kind of tells me what to expect.
As an author, I use chapter titles for various reasons. When I intended on using my novel, I'M SORRY, as a series, I used one word chapter titles for it, then used two word chapter titles for the sequel. When the sequel fell through, I used Japanese words and their translations for the chapter titles. For my current work, I find an interesting line of 3 or 4 words from the chapter and use that as the title.
I feel like it adds an intriguing, fun feel to a novel when the author takes the time to properly name each chapter.
I either love chapter titles or they irritate me and pull me out of the flow of the story.
One the whole, I like them ... now I'm wondering why I don't use them in my own writing more.
Love chapter titles. A teaser clue to the mystery, romance, adventure. Thrill me with Trivia. Go Liaden all the way. They do short stories as teasers. But love the worldbuilding trivia.
Seems to depend on the book itself. To do so in an 80-chapter crime thriller seems a bit... gratuitous, perhaps? But for a 25 chapter novel whose focus is a bit more on using metaphor, investigating character, etc. it could well be magnificent device to enrich the overall experience.
I love the way chapter titles can add a whole new dimension to a work. Sometimes they clue us into the upcoming plot points. Other times they add another layer of meaning or create a subversive twist.While a book title is important for drawing people in, chapter titles can be intricate and valuable tools to add to plot. After completing a chapter and after completing a book, I often enjoy flipping back and reading the chapter title again.
One book I've read recently where I enjoyed the chapter titles was "Fat Vampire" by Adam Rex.
I love chapter titles...as long as someone else writes them. They're clever and when I tell myself that I'm going to stop at the next chapter, they usually convince me that I really need to read just one more so that I can figure out what the title means.
However, I can't, for the life of me, write them for my own WIPs.
I find numbers impersonal. Anyone can write Chapter 1, Chapter 2. That said, in a 200,000 word book with 80 chapters, I can see why the author would not bother with titles.
I think personal titles have a function beyond breaking up the prose. They can make the reader curious about what's going to happen in the chapter. I also think chapter titles can structure the work. I'm not sure how traditional it is, but one of my chapter titles is "Three Days Later," the last chapter is "The End." It's a bit meta, but it does give the chapter titles a function.
I like titles. I like reading them, and I like writing them. For some books. Where appropriate.
Does I really don't mind count?
As long as they are good, subtle titles, they work. One can always sense when the writer has not thought them through. So... fine.
By: Nathan Bransford,
on 9/24/2010
Blog: Nathan Bransford (Login to Add to MyJacketFlap)
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THIS week IN publishing
First up, get your Query Critique Friday on in the Forums! UPDATE: my critique (and more about avoiding perspective shifts in queries if at all possible) posted here.
One of the larger ongoing news items in the publishing world is the board spat between CEO Len Riggio and investor Ron Burkle. Confused about what's going on there? The NY Times has a very helpful breakdown of the who what when where why how of the whole thing.
In an interview, author Danielle Steel denied that she is a romance writer, which for some reason set the blogosphere a-sneerin'. For the record, I think the distinction she was making was between category/traditional romance and the novels she writes, which, sure, often have romantic plotlines, but which fall more in the women's fiction realm. Not sure why this one became news, but hey...
Flavorwire had a pretty priceless collection of cliches in author photos, and, as he was wont to do, Oscar Wilde stole the show. And over at AbeBooks, a pretty cool gallery of authors and pen names.
The world's first Wonka candy store is opening in the Times Square Toys R Us, and.... searching..... searching..... nope. No golden ticket necessary. Whew!
In writing advice news, Laini Taylor discusses the importance of writers having a cheerleader (preferably more than one), Moses Siregar writes about the difference between one, two, three, and four word adjective descriptions, agent Jennifer Laughrin writes about the pros and cons of multi-book deals, and agent Kristin Nelson talks about how the best way to approach daunting query odds is by covering your ears and saying "La la la!"
And finally, coinciding with the upcoming Banned Books Week, YA author Laurie Halse Anderson posted about an editorial that called her novel SPEAK "soft pornography" because it deals with two rape scenes. Say what? The writing blogosphere rose up with a collective UM NO I DON'T THINK SO EDITORIAL and The Rejectionist, Janet Reid, Pimp My Novel, Matthew Rush, Laini Taylor,
35 Comments on This Week in Publishing 9/24/10, last added: 9/27/2010
Ragarding Danielle Steel, eh, I think people who don't read romance just assume Danielle Steel writes romance, and while some of her stuff has romantic aspects, that doesn't make it romance-more women's fic.
Then some of DS remarks about romance struck some romance lovers as insulting.
So there was the kerfuffle.
Me, I'm not too sure why it was newsworthy, either.
Love those comments. The Inn Keeper comment made me snort.
Author Jeaniene Frost had a very personal and informative blog post dealing with SPEAK as well.
Thanks, anon. I know I missed some of the good ones, so if people could include links in the comments section that would be great.
There was also this agent who, to celebrate his 1,000 post, gave a query and first five pages critique to the 1,000th commenter.
I happened by at the 400 mark and stayed to the end, and it was a great gab-fest of non-sequiturs, Castle, Yoda, and jokes, all culminating when it sped up to where the 900's went by in a blast of frantic typing.
Looking forward to your 2000th post.
Wow. I thought there for a while today, Nathan, that you'd forgotten us. Glad you got this posted. Thanks.
LINK!
In defense of Kantiss Everdeen at EW.com
http://tiny.cc/466zr
(if there is a way to embed the link I don't know it. 2010 and I'm still staring at TV going "wow")
Oh, and I loved the author pics. I've often wondered if the chin-on-fist look was required or something.....
abc-
Like this (replace every [ and ] with < and >)"
[a href="paste the link here"]Your Caption here[/a]
Link to Jeaniene Frost's Speak post
http://jeanienefrost.com/2010/09/speaking-out/
Thanks, Nathan!
Author photo cliches. I love it.
But I'm not guilty. I'm the only one using three quarter rim lighting.
I think.
The DS issue was probably newsworthy because the romance market in general is huge, it's bringing in money, and more readers are buying romances than ever before now that there's an international market.
But I'm just interested in the new candy store in Times Square.
Thanks for the mention, Nathan!
Btw, are you a SF Giants fan? There's a chance my Braves might run up against them in the playoffs. The NL playoff races are amazing right now.
OMG Nathan. I'm picturing an animated cover with Jacob Wonderbar zooming by in his spaceship, a ludicrously large bubble and a double rainbow in the background. EPIC.
My own WIP would have the Japanese Kanji character for permanence being drawn by an invisible hand on a plain white background. At least it would until my house's marketing and art departments overruled me.
Also thank you so much for the linkage. The company you've placed me in is utterly humbling. I supposed I better step up the quality of my posts.
Hey Matt, you made Nathan's round-up! I wish I could have him call me eloquent!
Hi Moses. Nice to meet you. I'm watching Fox Sports South right now, and these Braves better rally quick. If they can't beat Washington at least 2 out of 3 I can't see them holding on the the wild card.
Ack. Sorry to Jennifer LaughrAn for spelling her name wrong.
Thanks, Nathan! I will practice.
Love those photos of the authors. Interesting posing.
*FIST PUMP*
you are a double rainbow made of win.
I brought up the Speak topic on the forums here under Banned Book Week 2010 with a bunch of links to different posts about the issue.
Banned Book Week 2010
Probably the best compiled list of authors and bloggers and readers Speaking Out about Speak and Twenty Boy Summer can be found here at
Reclusive Bibliophile
I think this event has been all I've thought about and talked about all week. I've been feeling a little bit like I'm going to war against book banners. Thanks for giving this some attention Nathan.
Speaking of baseball, my Padres are trying to kill me.
Laini Taylor, wow. Thank you for turning her on to me Nathan. Laini Taylor is an outstanding role model and I can't wait to read her books.
And thank goodness I was a cheerleader for the Chicago Bulls and Bears; I can teach my family/friends how to cheer properly.
I think part of the reason the Danielle Steel thing gets romance writers (and readers) so pissed is that romance gets (lots of sales! but) very little respect. So when someone like Ms. Steel or Mr. Sparks (who make a lot of money selling very romantically inclined books) decides they are better than the genre or the people who love it...meh
Matt, my Braves have been ugly recently but there is some room for optimism, too. They have the best home record in MLB and they play 6 of their next 7 games at home (right now they're up 5-0 on the Nats in the 7th in DC). And the Padres and Giants have to play each other in the last three games of the year, so one of those two will lose either 2 or 3 games in that series. The Braves just have to stay ahead of one of those two to win the wildcard (the Rockies are nearly out of it).
My boys aren't playing great right now, though. But it would be great to see them in the postseason.
Oh yeah, write on!
Shannon Hale also wrote about the Speak controversy on her blog.
Well I hate to say I believe the propaganda, but I couldn't imagine Barnes & Noble in anyone but Len Riggio's hands.
Taking it back. "This here's the bumper crop".
But wait, we have repetition, Gizmodo and Vimeo vids. Ah... twins.
As for pseudonyms, missing: Steinbeck also wrote under the pseudonym, "Amnesia Glasscock". I know you find his chars. "provincial" but I like him. Glasscock and all.
I have to admit, all this news was very interesting. I heard about the Danielle Steele through Pimp My Novel. I've never read anything by her, honestly, but I have to admit I was skeptical about the comments.
Banning books, that's just a ridiculous concept in itself. Often vulgar content is needed to make a message go through, seriously.
And the video regarding the narrative 'Alice for interactive reading', I don't know...that concept just sounds like it's making reading a hassle if you have to unlock it like a videogame. Good stories should be immersive already without some fancy software to try jazzing them up any.
What a cool surprise! Thank you for linking to my blog, Nathan!
And I'm so happy to find Laini in here. (Twice!) She's one of the greats.
The "Alice" section of the video reminded me of those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books from the 90s. I'm dying for those things to make a comeback!
Alrighty. It's time for my regular kind-of-weird-because-no-one-else-is-doing-it commenting on each and every one of your links. Yay!
So, first, I loved your query critique, Nathan. Thank you, thank you, thank you for doing these. And thanks for all the wonderful links. Very informative and fun.
So, this battle between Riggio and Burkle confuses me. I've said a couple of times now that I'm willing to buy Barnes and Noble and I'm puzzled as to why I don't already own it. Seems to me that's the perfect solution. If you don't want to sell to Burkle, sell to me! I only have 45 dollars, Mr. Riggio, but if that's not enough, we can set up a payment plan. Maybe I can borrow the money from you. Okay, I'll expect a call pronto.
I haven't read any of Danielle Steel's books, so I don't know what genre her books are, but if romance writers are mad because they don't get much respect, I give them respect. I thought it was easy to write romance, and decided to sit down one day to do it. Why not? Easy-peasy. Well, I couldn't write it. Okay. Nothing more to say here.
Eeek. My post is already long, and I only addressed two links. Better hurry. I thought the author pictures were fun, but cliche.....What does Flavorwire want in their author pictures? Authors cannonballing into pools? Shaking their booty in some wild tribal dance? I mean, what? Okay, moving on, that was an interesting list of pen names. I'm thinking of using a pen name, too. Not for this post, though, might be too late for that. But in the future.
Okay, at first, I was really excited about the Wonka store, but.....well, please don't read the next line if you don't want your childhood dreams to be shatterered into little pieces - but then it occured to me, Willy Wonka isn't actually making this candy. It's just regular chocolate with the name Wonka on it. I'm sorry, but someone had to say it. On the other hand, hard to go wrong with a whole store of nothing but chocolate.
I thought Laini Taylor's cheerleader article was fanastic!!!!! Thanks for linking to that, Nathan. When I read about whether to use one, two, three, or four adjectives, I immediately want to write sentences using ten of them on a regular basis. I don't know what's wrong with me. Good article by Laughran. Love Nelson's 'la, la, la' approach! Yes! :)
Re. Speak - I respect, applaud and support all of those who are speaking our with such powerful and passionate voices. Thank you! And what has struck me about this the most is the power of the internet. The ability for people to rally and come together in a cause has increased exponentially. The internet is a more profound game-changer than I think we might realize.
Your whole 'bad jobs' in fiction threads were sooo funny. What a fun topic, Nathan. I read the tweets and they were equally as funny. That was fun.
That video is made of awesome. I loved the whole idea of linking information - just terrific - and I hadn't thought of it quite that way. Oddly enough, though, the interactive fiction gave me pause. That would be a completely different way of writing a book....it's interesting and exciting. And fun. But I hope the value of a non-interactive books isn't lost, too. Sometimes it's better if the reader doesn't get to pick the ending.
Okay, I'm done. Phew.
I'm all talked out, so I'll just say I hope everyone has a wonderful week! Thanks, Nathan! :)
Thanks for the mention, Nathan! :-)
Mira, you mean Mr. Riggio hasn't rung you about selling B & N yet? I wonder why not? When he does, don't forget the pole dancers!
J.T., I know, it's weird. He's probably just been busy.
I was thinking of replacing the pole dancers with cute, cuddly, live koala bears. I just think there's a bigger market for that sort of thing. But we can put the bears on the poles.
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Your link to "a hilarious Nerd flowchart" grabbed my attention, but it could not be found.
http://www.nerdist.com/2010/10/geek-flow/
Somehow, I cut a bunch of stuff out of the link and made it work. The one I pasted here should work. :)
Sorry! Should be fixed now.
I just watched the Grover video three times. It's hilarious! Definitely sending it on to friends!
Thanks, Nathan!
"Sadly, you are not a monster."
That video made my day when I first saw it, and watching it again just made my weekend. It just never gets old.
I take it a lot of the talk about strong vs. weak female characters centered around that flowchart, which was fascinating and entertaining to read. I can see why it would be divisive, though, and though I liked the concept, I didn't agree with all of its conclusions about what makes a weak character (and wish they would have included an example of a strong one that passed all their criteria). Heck, if a female character wasn't the main one in a story, she was automatically classified as "unable to carry a story" and deemed weak.
Saw the Grover video last night and loved it!
I'm going to go check out the Novel Maladies post now because I love that kind of stuff.
In case anyone wasn't aware, the e-book lending feature has been available from Barnes & Noble for about a year. It's been a B&N exclusive up 'til now.
The big complaints that people have with it are 1) only about half of the e-books are lendable, and 2) you can only lend a particular e-book once, ever.
Some notable publishers who are not participating in the e-book lending program: Random House, Hachette, HarperCollins, Simon & Schuster, Harlequin, and Dorchester.
Tecmo Bowl, wow, bringing back some memories of playing with my brothers! Go Bo Go!!
I received an email this week from a literary giant!! This person had high praise for a story I wrote! No money, no contracts, wasn't expecting any. The kind words trump everything. Been on cloud 9 since. I wrote like there was no tomorrow, and I wrote that story for myself and a few close friends. It was based on real events!
Anyone concerned with picture books declining or anything else like that, don't forget why we write. We write cause we have something to say. We're artists. Money, things, and all that other stuff--let the world have it. Just write and do it with your heart and soul!
PEACE!
So Ozzy Osbourne is a reformed 'gekken?'
'Gecken.'
I think I'm going to like the lending feature on Kindle!! And yes, the comment of the week had me smiling. Off to play with all the links... Have a great weekend!
Tecmo Bowl! I'm feeling the nostalgia swim around my head. My best friend used to always pick the Raiders and do that to me. Thanks for the video!
Congratulations, Theresa! I must check out that 30 ROCK episode. Sounds like a Female Fight Club, though I'd imagine the fights ruin their pedicures.
Darth Vader has Borderline Personality Disorder!? But he's my hero! I've modeled my entire life on his! Except the asthma. I hope this won't affect the sales of my upcoming book THE LEADERSHIP SECRETS OF DARTH VADER...
It's working now. And I always thought I was just a washed up old D&D nerd, but now, thanks to you Nathan, I know better.
Also, according to reports, Del Toro has quit the Hobbit, but now Jackson will direct himself.
I followed the flowchart, but still don't know which geekdom in which to toss my hat. I am a many-hatted geek.
My husband is at least seven kinds of geek (but all the best ones, I think). My daughter is well on her way to being an Otaku Geek (as we speak she is enraptured by some Dragon Drive episodes--trying to sing a long with the Japanese title song). The closest I come to being on the flow chart is a Book Geek. But I don't know since I've only read the Harry Potter series once.
30 Rock rules!
I'm out.
Thanks for the great links! I hadn't heard about the Kindle lend feature coming. I use the LEND feature on my nook, and it's pretty cool. :)
Ummmm, Alabama held Bo Jackson to 34 yds rushing his senior year in the Iron Bowl. Or maybe I'm confusing that with his jersey number. They were both in the thirties, at any rate.
But still, he is a pretty all around stand-up guy. And apparently gifted in the athletic arena. I guess. What with the football, the baseball, whatever. I'm not bitter.
That Tecmo Super Bowl video is epic. I saw video Bo do some crazy things in my day but never run out the whole quarter on one run. Video Barry Sanders and video Christian Okoye--when he was in "Excellent" condition (with 100 on his hitting power)--were also ridiculous.
I'm happy to have an "expert '30 Rock' reference" comment of the week. I love the Grover link. He's always been my favorite muppet.
Whaaaat? Nathan dances--or at least did?! Way cool. Who'da thunk? ;o) Enjoyed that vid.
Do you think Nielson will do all right tracking e-book sales? I've heard horror stories about BookScan.
Also, I think your word verification app is trying to tell me something. The phrase is poohu.
I've just read the Picture Book article and it made me mad and sad (and bad?).
I love reading picture books to my girls (ages 4 and 2) and I'll be sad when they grow out of them. They are often wittier and quirkier than the chapter books which are often head-bashingly boring so that kids can start to read them themselves.
Seems to me the world has gone achievement crazy. I believe it is much more important to breed a passion for books and a wide-ranging imagination in small children. Not have them reading War and Peace by the age of 6.
Having said that, picture books can be expensive when the kids eat them up by the dozen. I have an amazing solution.
It's called The Library.
Picture books authors keep going - we need your beauty and imagination!
Tecmo Super Bowl was probably the only sports video game I could ever play with any degree of skill.
At least I smell like a monster.
some of my best bonding w/my daughters was over picture books--The Hello-Goodbye Window, What Will Fat Cat Sit On, all the Madelines (of course), and even older the Eloise books... In case anyone's looking~
They also nurture early art appreciation IMO b/c they're usually GORGEOUS~
(thanks for the monster video--snag~)
Re-Martin Freeman playing Bilbo -- there was another link at the bottom of that article stating Martin had turned down the role because of his commitment to the TV series he recently started where he plays Dr. Watson to a new and interesting Sherlock. So which is true?
The Sherlock series is great, but he would have been such a great Bilbo! I haven't researched this yet, does anyone else know?
Also liked Eric's posting -- his blog is one I check out sometimes, but especially if Nathan's referring his readers to it.
I so don't understand football. Is there a nerd category for that?
What a nice literary blog, and you're an agent to boot!
You evidently are a prince.
Found you at Naked Opinions.
May I blogroll you?
Suzan
Thanks Nathan .
Although I realise it is not your chosen area of expertise I'd love to hear your views on the said death and decline of picture books .
Do you think it is just a silly phase parents are going through ?
Will they grow out of it ?
Enjoyed the Mother Jones piece.
Grover, I love you.
I have loved Grover ever since reading The Monster at the End of this Book. How is that for a twist at the end?
My niece is turning four soon, and is already getting interested in her older brother's basic chapter books. I'll miss my excuse for buying brilliant picture books...but who needs an excuse?
Thank you for the post, Nathan. Where to start? I read the critique. It was on point.
What do you think of Kindle letting people lend books? I see so many problems with an application like that. Couldn’t it lose authors a lot of money?
Hopefully they charge a small fee, equivalent to sending a book in the mail. I don’t think taking the book away from the owner for a couple weeks is enough. Will this lead to the literary industry being hit as hard as the music industry was by file sharing libraries. With a large enough virtual library, a company would be able to charge less then authors do for their work to have a membership. They could send out books to people for pennies on the dollar and still make a huge profit after a very short while. The only cost to the business would be buying the books. Book sharing also brings used 'ebooks' close to a reality, if they already aren't.
I'm sure someone has thought of this already, but it was the first thing that popped in my mind. Scary. What laws are they putting in place to protect authors from something like this?
I am going to check out that list of myths. Every samurai is related to Chuck Norris, we all know that.
While I haven't read the debate over the lack of strong female characters in young adult literature, I’ve made a conscious effort to craft a complex and very real woman that isn't perfect, but is never weak. Every time I look at my wife, I can't help but feel bound to portray women as independent, intelligent and world-shaping. What an exciting time, to nearly have a woman as our president. I don't know what is coming, but it's going to be interesting. I look forward to reading these posts.
I also liked Upstart's post, it is worth the read.
I cannot wait to see The Hobbit. My wife hates it, but I can do Smeagles voice to a T. Talk about uncomfortable—moving on.
I liked the videos too, thank you for the laughs. All in all, I really enjoy how much information you put out.
Draven Ames
Thank you for the post, Nathan. Where to start? I read the critique. It was on point.
What do you think of Kindle letting people lend books? I see so many problems with an application like that. Couldn’t it lose authors a lot of money?
Hopefully they charge a small fee, equivalent to sending a book in the mail. I don’t think taking the book away from the owner for a couple weeks is enough.
Will this lead to the literary industry being hit as hard as the music industry was by file sharing libraries. With a large enough virtual library, a company would be able to charge less then authors do for their work to have a membership. They could send out books to people for pennies on the dollar and still make a huge profit after a very short while. The only cost to the business would be buying the virtual books.
Book sharing also brings used 'ebooks' close to a reality, if they already aren't.
I'm sure someone has thought of this already, but it was the first thing that popped in my mind. Scary. What laws are they putting in place to protect authors from something like this?
(continued)
I am going to check out that list of myths. Every samurai is related to Chuck Norris, we all know that.
While I haven't read the debate over the lack of strong female characters in young adult literature, I’ve made a conscious effort to craft a complex and very real woman that isn't perfect, but is never weak. Every time I look at my wife, I can't help but feel bound to portray women as independent, intelligent and world-shaping. What an exciting time, to nearly have a woman as our president. I don't know what is coming, but it's going to be interesting. I look forward to reading these posts.
I also liked Upstart's post, it is worth the read.
I cannot wait to see The Hobbit. My wife hates it, but I can do Smeagles voice to a T. Talk about uncomfortable—moving on.
I liked the videos too, thank you for the laughs. All in all, I really enjoy how much information you put out.
Draven Ames
Lol, Robert.
Wow, someone else is commenting on all the links. Yay! I'm not alone. I shall proceed with awonderful feeling of solidarity in commenting.
So, Nathan, I was thinking this is like a mini-literary magazine that you post every Friday. Only with funny videos. The Grover one is so funny - I'm going to inflict that on everyone I see. And I thought the book domino video was amazing. How many hours would it take to set up something like that? I will say that's where books have it over e-readers. I don't think you can domino e-readers in the same way.
Do people know there are hidden videos here? I never get tired of the Darth Vader video - so funny. I thought the samarai one was disgusting. No offense. Arms flying all over the place. Yech.
Sadly, I don't understand football, and the video game looked like they were just running all over. That was kind of fun in its own way, though.
So, now that I've spent three paragraphs on the videos, onto the links!
I think that picture books will make a comeback in e-readers. I already saw some applications on the I-phone that were interactive picture books. (That was very funny what you said about the downturn. clever.)
Didn't we have a thread in the forums where we diagnosed characters? I think we decided that Sleeping Beauty had narcolepsy. Mother Jones obviously stole the idea from us.
I think a lending feature on the Kindle is very smart business. Sort of like phones who have networks of friends, so everyone gets the same phone.
I agree with Eric on some, and don't agree on others. Always find his discussions interesting though.
All of the articles about what makes a strong female character were very interesting. I guess, for me, my biggest gripe isn't the lack of strong female characters, it's the huge amount of weak female characters, who do not get stronger. A weak character who finds strength - that's worth reading. But a weak female character who sits around until she is rescued or fades into a shadow? Blech, blech, blech.
The Hobbit's coming!! I don't really care who plays him, just hurry up and make the movie! Yay!
In terms of Hunger Games, I hope they don't make it romantic. My biggest fear about that book is that kids will think it's a good thing to be running around trying to kill other kids. I hope they are careful.
Be very interesting to see the actual sales from e-books. Very interesting. I hope they make them public. I thought that Lambert's article was interesting. I'm sure that leaving print books out of the ad between two e-readers was very deliberate and part of the advertising. Advertising works. I drive by HUGE billboards of the I-Pad daily, and even though I don't want one, I WANT ONE.
So, I read the nerd flowchart, and I'm about 12 of them. I'm not sure I want to know what that means.
Funny comment by Theresa - I remember that show, it was funny.
Okay, I'm done. Phew. Lots of wonderful links - oh, and great page critique, Nathan! Very interesting and educational. Thank you, as always.
Hope everyone had a nice weekend!
I love MIchael Stearns post. That summed it up quite nicely.
At first I read "Martin Freeman" as "Morgan Freeman" and went "WHAAAAT???" LOL.
Sarah, Morgan Freeman as Bilbo? Why not? I'm not ageist. As long as he's not typecast as God...
This week in publishing Haiku
Because of Grover
And because of 30 rock
I’m a hard-core fan.