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Wow......

......never thought I'd hear someone confirm it.

Hats off!

I think the same is true on a smaller scale, even for single titles. Don't we always hear that a killer opening and a satisfactory end are the most important parts of a manuscript? It seems much harder to lose someone's attention than it is to catch it. If you can get them on board, that's the victory.

*cough* Breaking Dawn *cough*

So... this just emphasizes the need for writers to edit their manuscripts as much as possible before they send it in, right? Even if you're some big name?

But why would anyone possibly care?

How does focusing on a book that wasn't properly edited, especially one that happened to sell a bajillion copies, even matter?

Learn what you can from the model and invest your energy in what YOU write instead of niggling about others.

You didn't even edit your own question.

*sigh*
I have two sets of CDs for the last HP book and, much as I loved listening to the rest of the series, I haven't touched the 7th. I read the book, of course, but have no desire to go back and read or listen to it again. Not the same feeling for the first four.

I agree about the Potter books; I couldn't get past the 3rd one for that reason: just went on and on. But I think that's part of the appeal for the fans; lots of detail about the world they love to read about. And the publishers aren't stupid: they know what sells. All it means is that I am not the audience for the book.

As far as a book for the ages goes, that's really up to the ages. We can call something a "classic" within 10 minutes of its release all we want, but we have no control over the future and what will stand the test of time. That's up to the future, not to us in the present.

This post addressed something I've wondered about, too. I had noticed how as HP grew more and more popular, each book became longer and more rambling.

This was also the case with the final Borrowers book, published after a gap of about 20-25 years. It was longer than the others and in desperate need of editing.

just speaking as a reader: i've read mysteries in which entire paragraphs were repeated -- likely because no editor ever even *read* them before shunting them off to production. and 'the hedgehog, the fox, and the magister's pox' by stephen jay gould, and published posthumously, was a piece of cr@p and damn near unreadable. it was like the editor was afraid to touch the thing. s/he really should have realized that s/he was editing his work -- not performing his autopsy -- and just done her job as though the author were there to just agree with everything s/he did.

"It doesn't matter so much how badly plotted, excessively adverbialized, and padded with filler the last books are. Readers will still want them."

Yeah, that's why I bought and read all of New Moon/Eclipse/Breaking Dawn. And then hated myself. And Stephenie Meyer. And her publisher and editor.

(I don't actually hate Stephenie Meyer. I think she's got some great story concepts. But she really needs a bold editor with a chain saw. And I did actually hate myself about 2/3 into Breaking Dawn, when the story was still dragging on, my household was running to chaos, NOTHING WAS HAPPENING IN THE STORY, and still I kept reading the blasted thing.)

I teach a HP class (a college class, all 7 books), and we talk about this a lot (you think 7 is bad? 5 is worse, IMHO). Her fans wanted Quidditch, so she put it in. The books would be 100x shorter without Quidditch. It's too bad, because there are brilliant and magnificent things that make those books study-worthy. But their bloat makes studying them much harder. Kajillions of dollars or not, someone still should have stood up to JKR.

Aimee: LOL! That made my day.

I have a lot of criticisms about a lot of books, but worrying why no one bothered to fix it or how that person got published in the first place is a waste of time.

JK has amazing world building and loveable characters.

Stephenie Meyer has fascinating ideas and strong hooks and she knows how to keep the page turning.

Put the energy into writing something better if you think you can. See where you get when you're on book #4 or 7 or 13. It's a lot to handle. Just know that it's much easier to see flaws in others' writing than your own and what goes around comes around.

Don't knock Harry Potter 7. I thought it was a very good book. While over the course of the series there were one or two subplots that I, personally, would have dropped, I think overall it didn't display many signs of want of editing.

As a writer, I avoid reading books like these because they serve as poor models for my own writing. I don't even want to think, on a subconscious level, "if they can write like this, so can I." They can because they're proven winners while I have yet to prove myself. And my goal is to prove myself by great writing as well as tight plotting and memorable, complex characters.

Excellent post.

HP book 5 was the most overlong, for me. In fairness to Rowling, I think she does a great job of recapping previous books and incorporating the recap into the narrative - not so much it alienates devout readers, but also enough to give first-timers a sense of what's going on.

And at least Bloomsbury let Rowling take a few years with each installment - unlike the Twilight books, which were pumped out one a year. And it shows.

I think a lot of you should get off your high horses about bad editing and overlong stories. Rowling created a world that many of us wanted even more of, rather than less. So a subplot doesn't move the main story along? Maybe it was just plain FUN to write - and therefore, probably fun to read also. I read an awful lot of fiction these days that reads like the author is following some kind of "author's rulebook" as to how many words they're allowed to use. Dull, dull, dull.

Amen to myimaginaryblog @ 11:34 -- I'm with you on that.

I think it's sad beyond belief that when something is popular the editor feels they no longer have to give a shit. If I was the editor of SM's latter books I'd be ashamed of myself, letting those overly long, nothing happening plots out like that. It would've been so easy to make them tight. It's lazy and inexcusable. Yes, they are page turners, but they could've been EDITED page turners -- it's not like it's either or.

I mean, as a writer, if your editor doesn't care, where does that leave you?

HP 7 was edited by editors who cared a whole heck of a lot, at least in the American edition. And if you notice, there are significantly fewer adverbs in the dialogue tags as in the earlier books. So I wouldn't say that she didn't listen to editors any more, or that her editors didn't care once the books got big.

Other series, though...well, I can think of a lot of examples of things going wrong as fame grows.

I wonder sometimes (well, in particular, a certain series) if the author has a vision and the editor has a somewhat different vision. And the new author bent their vision to the editor's until the books became big, at which point the author had the clout to write their original idea--and could, since of course the public wanted whatever they had to write. But by now there was this odd disjoint between beginning and end. Even if that's not the case, it makes me think about the power balance between author and editor, and how important it is that they share a vision and a willingness to do what it takes to reach that.

I'm surprised some commenters are pouring scorn on the idea of anyone caring about this issue. On a personal and professional level, I just want books - as a general category - to be as good as possible, in as many ways as possible, although factors certainly do conspire against that sometimes.

If that's naive, then it's the very same naivete that drew me into becoming an editor in the first place.

I have nothing but respect for JK. She's one of my favorite authors. How she managed to keep everything straight [more or less ;-)] across a seven book series - and that includes foreshadowing three books in advance - just amazes me. That doesn't mean I love everything she's written.

I have other favorite authors who write extensive series and I see this issue crop up with them. The demand for the next book sometimes drives the schedule and the quality of the book can suffer as a result.

I hate to admit this but at an unnamed school I once taught in in the south... the book "little black sambo" had been renamed and redone as "little GREEN sambo." It was in the 60s during a time of great unrest in the deep south.

As for Kettlehead.... does anyone remember reading the Tales of Hans Christian Andersen or the Grimm Brothers tales. Some of those were horrific.

I never read the story as a child, but I do recall eating at a restaurant called Sambo's when we took summer road trips:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo's

I hope someone grabs the graphic novel rights to this one. It could be a hoot!

What I remember about LBS is that he had some really amazing shoes in our version (crimson with crimson lining?)
At 4 or 5, I selected purple keds so I could be like him.
And then, kind of forgot about it til' I went to college, and, like Working Illustrator, learned it was such an infamous story with a terrible history. My childhood shoe idol - rife with controversy!

Also: Kettlehead sounds amazing, and exactly like something my favorite 4 and 6 year old pals would make up.
WI: you've got some serious competition for the illos on that one.
;)

I'd buy it, too.

I agree with Working Illustrator about the text of the story itself not being racist. That's all baggage that's been attached (fairly or unfairly) to the story through the years. The story itself is a fun story about a little boy who outwits a group of tigers; nothing more.

I've enjoyed the story in its varous retellings - with original pictures, Babaji, and Sam and the Tigers. The pictures in this one are especially beautiful. I haven't read it, but this retelling looks like fun.

I love that story, and I would buy it in a HOT SECOND if it was reissued.

Ed, I am ashamed of you for having such prosaic taste.

One of my favorite childhood books was the bloody Struwwelpeter Suck-a-thumb, about a prancing man with scissors who cut the thumbs off little thumb-sucking children. Below is the verse (which came complete with pictures):

The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb

One day, Mamma said “Conrad dear,
I must go out now and leave you here.
But mind now, Conrad, what I say,
Don’t suck your thumb while I’m away.
The great tall tailor always comes
To little boys that suck their thumbs;
And ere they dream what he’s about,
He takes his great sharp scissors out
And cuts their thumbs clean off, and then
You know, they never grow again.”

Mamma had scarcely turned her back,
The thumb was in, Alack! Alack!
The door flew open, in he ran,
The great, long, red-legg’d scissor-man.
Oh! children, see! the tailor’s come
And caught out little Suck-a-Thumb.
Snip! Snap! Snip! the scissors go;
And Conrad cries out - Oh! Oh! Oh!
Snip! Snap! Snip! They go so fast,
That both his thumbs are off at last.

Mamma comes home: there Conrad stands,
And looks quite sad, and shows his hands;
“Ah! said Mamma, “I knew he’d come
To naughty little Suck-a-Thumb.”

To Working Illustrator and Emily Blackapple:

After you illustrate Kettlehead, how about "The New Mother" by Lucy Lane Clifford - from 1882:

http://www.geocities.com/orwellus/newmother.htm

Then there's always the classic Struwwelpeter (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struwwelpeter and http://www.fln.vcu.edu/struwwel/struwwel.html), still sold in every single bookstore in Germany...

We own it for the gag gift nature of it--but out kids find it rather terrifying. As well they should.

> Little Black Sambo was republished a couple of years ago by HarperCollins, with illustrations by the late, great Fred Marcellino under the title The Story of Little Babaji.

Ah - thanks. I hadn't realised the link between them was so very direct, nor the Indian origins of Little Black Sambo.

Little Babaji is one of the most drop dead gorgeous children's books I know, and a firm favourite in our household.

Many's the time I've turned to look thoughfuly at my daughter, and in my deepest voice said "Very well - I won't eat you *this* time..."

> I hate to admit this but at an unnamed school I once taught in in the south... the book "little black sambo" had been renamed and redone as "little GREEN sambo."

Long ago - mid '80s - I worked in the computer games industry. We had finished a fighting game destined for the early Nintendo consoles, but Nintendo were vetoing its release on the grounds that when the players character died, he slumped down into a pool of red blood, which was considered excessively violent.

We changed the blood colour to green, Nintendo rescinded its veto, and the game was released.

The moral of the story: It's ok to beat up Martians.

Anonymous 10:07 pm said: To Working Illustrator and Emily Blackapple: After you illustrate Kettlehead, how about "The New Mother" by Lucy Lane Clifford - from 1882.

That one's also sort of been redone, too: Neil Gaiman has identified it as one of the sources of Coraline.

"working illustrator said...

That one's also sort of been redone, too: Neil Gaiman has identified it as one of the sources of Coraline."

I know - Coraline is great, but it would be crazy to see "The New Mother" illustrated as is, not just used as an inspiration to a modern tale. The fake mother in that one has a glass eyes AND a dragging wooden tail!! And there is not even a shred of happy ending - it ends with such pure horror it makes Kettlehead look uplifting.

- anon again

It's kind of weird to me that someone brought up Struwwelpeter when I'd just been researching it a week or two ago, for an entirely different reason. (I'd been reminiscing about a shop in Berkeley CA whose owner was of German origin, which used to have signs saying "Don't Touch" with an image of a child's hand with its fingers chopped off. My mom claimed that the illustration came from Struwwelpeter, which sent both of us off on internet searches.)

I loved LBS too. I hated a lot of Hans Christian Anderson and the Grimm brothers, though. Y'all realize that the original Little Mermaid gets turned into seafoam, right? And my daughter recently read with dismay about the poor tin soldier who melts in the fire. And I think there's a Christmas tree that dreams of happiness but then gets burned. Anderson was quite the ray of sunshine.

A few years ago my mom was reading a story out of The Junior Classic to my daughter who was then about four years old, and has always loved animals. The story was about a cat and a mouse, and my mom was startled when at the end of the story, the cat ate the mouse. My mom said, "And now that little mouse is in heaven," and my daughter said, cheerfully, "No, he's like this," throwing her head back, closing her eyes, and letting her tongue loll. It's really hard to predict what might upset kids or delight them.

OMG this is absolutely marvellous book :))) My kids would love it.

Wendy-- does that mean we can eat babies before they develop verbal skills? What about the 'deaf and dumb'? Or mutes?

OR, on the other hand..... What about Parrots? They talk, but if I was stranded on a desert island, the parrot would be going into the stew pot!

Also, the sort of cannibals who eat people from other tribes do it because they DON'T view the others as 'people'--they have a more limited view of what constitutes a person.....

For instance, during civil wars in the Congo, the pygmies often get eaten. Because the people eating them think that pygmies are too short to be 'human.'

OK. Really need my morning coffee. It's just we argue about cannibalism a lot around here. (No, we're not raising little hannibal lectors-- It's just that it, even more than slavery, raises such interesting questions about what constitutes 'family' and what constitutes 'other'...... )

In terms of cannabilism in kids books: I recently discovered the incredibly AWESOME "I, Crocodile". My kids loved it, so I checked it out on Amazon. (Only available in paperback. Pffft.) One of the reviews complained because the Crocodile 'practices cannibalism'--- meaning, he eats a person at the end..... !?!?! (Same review complained b/c he eats birds and fish, too....)

OK.... off to coffee so I can be less ADHD! ;)

The kettlehead also reminds me of L. Frank Baum's original Wizard of Oz, where the tin man is made of tin because he kept having body parts chopped off (I think he was a wood cutter? Not a very good one, I guess . . .). At any rate, each part was replaced with tin until he was entirely made of tin. EA, you are right about how things that seem gory and outlandish to adults can be fascinating in a relatively innocent way to kids. My 8 year old daughter loves the Baum novels (she is also a fan of Roald Dahl, who is another master of the bizarre).

My favorite part is that the leftover head of the mutilated baby doll has *real* eyelashes.

"Gee, Santa. Thanks for the replacement head" Oy

Man - that is a LOVELY paragraph about how children decipher stories to shape their world. I'm printing that up and putting it on my board.
(And I'm not just trying to kiss ass.)

Off Topic: What do you think of this... are some YA writers too "big" for editors? They are using Steph Meyer as an example. Or are some editors not into editing, and more into this-author-is-gonna-sell-anyway-so-why-bother?

http://editorunleashed.com/2009/07/09/is-editing-worth-it/

The above-mentioned "Struwwelpeter" is full of children meeting horrific demises and was just reprinted in 2006 with new illustrations: http://www.amazon.com/Struwwelpeter-Other-Disturbing-Tales-Beings/dp/1560977027/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254513144&sr=1-3 and Amazon puts it in the children's category.

When I was a kid, one of my favorite stories (in My Book House, if I remember correctly) had an evil stepmother who says, "I cannot part your hair with a comb; bring me an axe.) My daughter seems to have inherited my warped sensibility. She has a collection of Hans Christian Anderson tales and her favorite is a bizarre and violent tale called "Little Claus and Big Claus." Does Little Kettlehead have a chance in today's market? Not a chance -- but my daughter's gonna love it!

I'm so glad so many people mentioned Der Struwwelpeter! I grew up fascinated and horrified by that book. We had it in the original German. It was my mother's childhood book. I couldn't read the text but the pictures freaked me out. I remember asking my mom to translate the stories for me even though they scared me. In addition to the thumbsucking story, there was the one about the girl who played with matches and burned to ashes right in front of her weeping cats. And there was the boy who refused to eat his dinner until he wasted away to nothing (you get to see the stages of his anorexic glory) and died. The "beauty" of the Der Struwwelpeter tales was in their simplicity. This Kettlehead story just rambles on getting crazier and crazier.

I can't see there being a market for this kind of "don't-do-this-or-else!" story today, except, as a previous poster said, as a graphic novel. It would fit perfectly in that genre!

Struwwelpeter, and Max and Moritz (you haven't lived till you've read these beauties) and the real German Grimm WERE the books I was read/or I read myself as a six and seven year old in Munich (our home).

If we are supposed to remember our childhoods and write with that, then these said authors must have had horrible ones.

But they did not make me a disturbed child.

What they did do was make me not feel anything towards them except that they were sadistic, humorless, cruel and heartless. It was kinda hard to warm up to and like the characters.

If there was a point to made it in them it was lost on me.

I still have Struwwelpeter somewhere but feel no real need to dig it up...as it were.

And Max and Moritz never made it back to the States.

Ya, I skip a lot of those articles / blog postings at the moment. It gets a bit repetitive.

This is mike, and he's delighted you have taken this stance. Sometimes things are difficult or impossible because that's what you expect.

Well if it makes you feel any better, people have been saying the same thing for a hundred years, and we're still making a living at it. So what the hell.

People always need *something* to complain about.

I couldn't agree more!

The future is a question mark in many ways, but mainly far as format goes. Stop complaining, start trying new things and keep doing the old things that work.

I love books, I love reading... so do many other people. It's not as if every bookworm on the planet will suddenly self-combust & leave no potential customers out there!

Cheers, Jill
www.jilledmondson.blogspot.com

1. Crappy because of its extreme drive toward commercialism (note the adjective 'extreme')

2. It will have a future just like AMAZON. But it won't be a Mercedes!

It's about time someone said this...with this much authoritative snark.

I raise my fancy blue wine glass full of Moscato to you!

Bless you.

(While you're at it, any chance you could smack around Booksquare for villainizing all publishers who don't conform precisely to one specific vision of How Electronic Publishing Should Be? Because all types of books are the same and should be treated identically, natch. Also, we're all Luddites with a pathological fear of change.)

Publishing has been doomed for as long as I can remember, and I assume it will continue to be doomed for the foreseeable future. If it ever became non-doomed, I don't know what we'd do with ourselves.

And, in my jaundiced view, the "future of publishing" talk is mostly driven by consultants and start-up salespeople talking as quickly as they can to justify their own existences. Trace it back, and there's always someone trying to sell you something.

Love it! No offense to all the doomsday blog posts out there, but I worked in publishing for two years and every day was "publishing is dying" and "Borders is on the edge." Well last week I a)bought a book and b) it was from Borders, so that kind of shoots both of those theories. In fact, I think I'm going to go buy another book right now, if only to call myself the defibrillator of the publishing industry.

I actually find the "future of publishing" conversation fascinating and, in an odd way, encouraging. The method of delivery will change, but stories and art will always be important. It's up to us as writers, editors, publishers, agents to figure out how to get paid.

This is the most refreshing industry-related blog post I've read in a LONG time! Thank you for reminding everyone that the end is not nigh.

Publishing will have a future if it adapts to trends and changes, which it will. As long as people want to write stories, there will be people to edit, produce, and distribute those stories. If in 20 years, that format only exists in digital, then so be it.

Of course, I'm one of those evil Kindle people, but my 12 pages full of books (at 20 or so per page) tell me that there's a market. And I hope that's true for a long time, because I'm finally working on entering it. Thanks so much for this blog, EA!

I think the markets are taking a turn for the better - that means companies will do better, including B&N, Borders, etc..

Course I'm not a stock broker but I'm just saying. . .

Absolutely couldn't agree more! Thank you!

what Literaticat said. I mean, wasn't television supposed to be end of books? And wasn't that ummm... sixty years ago?

I have yet to read a blog about publishing, including this one, that didn't depress me. I find the contempt for authors especially disheartening.

The recent article by an ex-editor at, I think, Random House and current editor at the NYer, about the mess the industry is in was more informative than most of what I see on blogs -- again, including yours.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a fan of this blog and so don't read it regularly -- thus, I may have missed many informative, fascinating articles that completely contradict what I'm about to say. But it seems to me that you are no slouch at negativity and snarky comments yourself, so why are you complaining about other people's negativity?

I'm a writer. I've had rejections, and, thankfully, some published books. I love this business. I have worked with the most creative designers, funny and wise editors, and hear from the nicest people who read my books. Yes, the business model is changing, to who knows what, but there will always be a need for storytellers and for the people who help us get our stories out there.

I'm a writer. I've had rejections, and, thankfully, some published books. I love this business. I have worked with the most creative designers, funny and wise editors, and hear from the nicest people who read my books. Yes, the business model is changing, to who knows what, but there will always be a need for storytellers and for the people who help us get our stories out there.

Amen!!!

The sky is always falling. Every generation thinks the world is about to end...

It's time to appreciate LIFE and BOOKS and HAPPY TIMES.

Yes yes yes yes yes!! My thoughts exactly.

Let's talk about fluffy puppies and kittens. Or, you know, awesome books...?

Love this post!
:-)

I was with you and resolved to be sunny. Then I read that Sarah Palin masterpiece is already a bestseller with preorders. Sorry. It's raining again.

Oh snap! Someone's been posting on the future of publishing again! Texas Cage Match!!! Go EA!

THANK YOU!! Can we broaden that to include "the future of the printed word", please? (Yes, someone actually said that).

--A librarian friend and ally.

And now, the 'Vook.'

"...a vook blends text and video into a single, complete story."

Because a story couldn't POSSIBLY be complete without some video, apparently.

http://promo.simonandschuster.com/vook/

Workman does some of Sandra Boynton's board books with a musical CD included.

Check out Piano Press. Google them.

I am not sure if that is where you are going or not... but maybe you can come up with something that they do do.

I have two daughters, and as toddlers two of their favorite books did involve music.

One was a Disney book that actually plays "A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes" and has the words on the first page. My girls loved to press the music button. They were less enthusiastic about me singing along.

The other is "If You Were My Bunny" by Kate McMullan, illustrated by David McPhail. This one includes five sets of original lyrics to be sung to well-known lullaby tunes.

Neither of these required learning new melodies. We have other books with songs that came on CD, but we've never listened to any of them. The book needs to be self-contained and self-sufficient to be practical for tiny people.

Wow, such a nearly snark-free response--are you okay today, EA? :)

I was given a baby book that had an accompanying lullaby CD, but it wasn't as though I were going to make the effort to use them simultaneously--so I kept the CD and ditched the book (which was just photos of sleeping babies.)

I have been feeling a little funny. Maybe I've lost my snark. That would be a terrible, terrible thing.

You could always try the music publishers - OUP and Faber both have Music divisions, then there's Chester, Music Sales... I used to work in a music shop, and those books sold quite well to piano-literate mums and grannies who'd popped in for the older child's clarinet reeds, as well as to whichever teacher in every local primary school is in charge of music.

Look into Usborn, too.

No! Tell me it isn't true! Yet I see all the time those trashy books on library and bookstore shelves. As a library "Storylady" I like to sit down and read stacks of picture books, hoping to find a new gem to share with my little ones. And constantly I'm amazed at the garbage that gets published. I guess it makes those gems so much more treasured when they do turn up.

It's a dead-end conversation isn't it? (Though I did appreciate the professional insight.) I just posted similarly about the complaints of the quality of other books. PB's are a bit of a different scenario but in any case I find it fruitless to complain about all the poor quality. There are still a lot of wonderful PB's out there and there is room for more.

It is what it is. Carry on.

This is beyond depressing.

Speaking as a parent: you've just solved one of the great mysteries of life for me. There are some truly awful books out there for children. I've even found a typo in what amounted to a picture book... under one hundred words... and there was a typo. My kids are now on chapter books and that opens a whole new realm of awful because you often don't recognize its mediocrity until you're twenty pages in.

My WV is "sodepee" and even though it's nonsense... it still made me giggle immaturely. Someday I hope to grow up.

Sadly, I think you're right, and from a new author's point of view it's crushingly disappointing. Although there are truly wonderful publishing houses around, others don't care that they have the power to make or break your career.
Maureen Hume. www.thepizzagang.com

I have shared these same frustrations. I was given a children's book where the author changed tenses in the middle of the sentence. Aargh!

I call those books "grandma books." Most grandparents don't really know what kids read and like. So they're just looking for something "cute". The words don't matter to them, after all, they won't be the ones READING the books 15 times a night for the next year!

Still, some of the 'written by editors' books aren't bad...

My policy is to request books by name (yay Amazon wish-lists!). And I always check them out of the Library first, to make SURE they're something I can stand to read until it falls apart.

Oh, and for the truly horrible paperback 8x8s? You'd be suprised how quickly they get 'too damaged to keep...'

Oh hell yeah. I'm a writer by nature but I like to eat so ended up working as an editor - which actually meant I got to write a lot of books. Paying a writer was something you only did in special cases.

My work went uncredited but at least I got to do what I like doing, some of the time. But it's a daft situation.

Same goes for Adam Sandler movies. If people stopped watching them, then they'd stop making them.

Clearly, there is a market for all tastes. Choice of reading is so subjective. It would be a terrible world if only the books I liked were published.

There is a 'truly awful' for any field. Books, movies, paintings, buildings, cars, television, politics etc.

Wow. It's like what I always suspected has been true. And I hate to be a snob because I love the dollar bin at the bookstore and I love stocking up on new books so my little one can get a thorough experience. But this post makes me want to be just a little more picky. If I throw even a dollar at one of these crappy books I guess I'm kind of feeding the crap machine. Even in a very small way, I'd rather not.

Or, it could be that the OP is just bitter they can't get published (hey, we've all been there, right?). When I'm in the dumps about not being published, every book I read seems like crap. Under normal circumstances, though, when I read a book I don't like, I just assume it wasn't meant for me.

This is why my family chooses their books from an independent bookstore. At least I know that the bookstore buyers actually look for good children's books. That's not to say there aren't bad books there, but your chances are a lot better of finding something worthwhile.

And I agree about the "grandma book" comment - I can't tell you how many books my children have received from a well meaning grandma who never cracked them open to actually look at them. Ack.

(My solution: tell grandma about the great bookstore and send her there! ha ha).

Ug, "grandma books." My children's actual grandma (at least on my side) is more on the ball literary-merit wise than most people, but that doesn't mean everyone else (younger adults included-- not just your grandmotherly types) who buys books for my (or anyone else's) children isn't prone to Cutesy. And of course, stuff starring your favorite cartoon characters. Easy to brush off this sort of griping as unpublished-sour-grapes, and maybe I'd be guilty of that before I had children, but as a mother I am coming from somewhere else entirely! I do not MIND reading "Goodnight Moon" over and over, actually-- it's brilliant, the way it flows off the tongue! Dr. Seuss is genuinely entertaining using only a controlled vocabulary! But when my toddler son gets fixated on one of those many "grandma books" we've been given, maybe because of some packaging gimmick or the fact that it's about a character he likes,* I can hardly stand to read it once. Many times I just end up retelling the story in my own words, which, being off the top of my head, aren't that great either, but somehow it makes me feel better.

I really needed to rant about this to somebody who understands for awhile! Thanks for the opportunity!

*(I can't wait until he can sit still long enough for a non-picture-book so I can read him MILNE'S version of Winnie-the-Pooh instead of the crappy cheap Disney storybooks he keeps insisting I read him)

My picture book was avoided by the book buying parents and grandparents until it won a national children's choice award. Thank goodness the children liked it! (And schools and libraries). It can be heartbreakingly hard to reach one's target market even when you have a product they'll like.

rockin-- I found pooh actually works pretty well with toddlers... there's a picture on every page, after all! Also, "When we were very young!"

The worst are the 'grandma books' that are also super-wordy. Then they're Long AND awful. (Like some of those disney retellings that take longer to read than to watch the original movie!)

I've got 3 kids, and I'm a lot meaner than I was with one. Now if they bring me a book I hate I say "I hate that book so I'm too busy to read it. If you find a stack of books I LIKE, I'll read them ALL!" It works wonders! ;)

Life is too short to read crummy books! (If they argue, I follow it up with "When you learn to read, you can read any garbage you want. But for now I'm in charge!")

I do let them experiment a bit more with library books-- since my husband is a librarian, if I read it once and hate it I just make sure it goes back to work with him the next day!

I think photo covers on non-fiction are acceptable, but I will not buy a fiction book with a photo cover. They look cheap and generic.

If a publisher doesn't believe enough in the book to take the time to develop professional artwork relative to the story, why should I take the time to read it?

It's also the whole "escaping reality" thing with fiction. How dare you wrap my fantasy with your reality...lol

~tlbyford

I like photos in general, but for a book cover they need a little spicing up. I do, however, HATE covers with a picture (or drawing) of the main character. I would rather create my own mental image from the author's words, thank you.

EA, if one is seeking an agent, and has been for some time, and it seems that every agent in one's genre is completely uninterested in one's work, at what point should one realize that one's work is just plain... bad? Is there a sign we should look for that says, "Give up!" in big, flashing letters?

~Tara

I don't get why people would have a thing against *all* photographs. Most of them are horrible, some of them are beautiful, just like illustrated covers.

And why would photography not be "professional artwork"? Someone is putting time and effort into setting up that picture, and then editing and cropping it right. And they get paid for it. What's not professional?

I'd pay more for a good photograph than I would for the artwork on *either* the British or American cover illustrations for Harry Potter.

Covers

I just wonder if a photo cover is in any way more cost effective for the pulishers?

I know of some of my familiar faves (series) that are NOT photos, and from the "brand" point of view, I think they work (and work well).

With my book, Blood and Groom, the publisher said right from the start that they would use a photo (with a bit of doctoring). I happen to like what they have done... but it is my first book, so I have nothing personal to compare it to.

Cheers, Jill
www.jilledmondson.blogspot.com

That's interesting because I tend to go for photo covers more than cover art in YA.

For example some of my favorite covers right now include NEED by Carrie Jones, PRINCESS OF THE MIDNIGHT BALL by Jessica Day George, SONG OF THE SPARROW by Lisa Ann Sandell...all photo art.

I think as long as it is designed to fit the book and not just use some stock photo then its a better cover IMO.

I dunno-- I judge a book by the jacket copy more than by the cover - I've been burned too many times by gorgeous covers on mediocre writing, and I've had a lot of pleasant suprises with less exciting covers.

Besides, photo covers are ALSO professional artwork! They take time and money too! Do you think they get the covers on the Ally Carter books by dragging in a random girl off the street, taking one shot, and then plastering it on the front of the books?

Don't Dis the Photographers, man......

It's not just time required to create original art for a book; it's loads of cash. Using stock photos, especially without exclusivity, is FAR less expensive, and these people are not dealing with huge production budgets.

@ T. L. Byford

"If a publisher doesn't believe enough in the book to take the time to develop professional artwork relative to the story, why should I take the time to read it?"

There are factors you're not taking into account. For instance, some chain buyers INSIST on photographic covers. Call it a self-fulfilling prophecy (are photographic covers REALLY more popular or does it appear that way because those are the only kinds some buyers will buy?) but you have to take into account that chain buyers DO influence the look of a book. Not all publishers bend to their wishes but some, usually smaller houses, are forced to take those opinions into consideration in order to get a buy.

It has nothing to do with a publisher's faith in a book. It has to do with what will sell a book to an intended audience and sometimes that direction is shaped by perceptions of those who buy books for bookstores.

T.L Byford said: "... but I will not buy a fiction book with a photo cover. They look cheap and generic..."

Wow, pig-headed a little, aren't you? Give me a break.

The publisher cares about the book or they wouldn't be publishing it to begin with. Some books lend themselves to photo cover, others don't.

Pig-headed...hmm. Strong words from someone brave enough to post as "Anonymous".

I like chocolate cupcakes. I do not like vanilla cupcakes. I never buy vanilla cupcakes. Simple math.

My point is, I am the one spending my hard earned money on one book out of millions competing in a saturated market. I quickly narrow down my choices by eliminating an element "I" don't like, photo covers. I spend less time choosing and more time buying and reading.

I'm not knocking publishers, but I don't care about their budget, time constraints, market analysis, etc...when I am shopping for a book. I want a good book, in a good package, at a good price. Value.

If covers were not important we would not be having this debate and publishers wouldn't bother to put them on.

And no, I don't choose a book just by the cover. They have to smell good too...lol

~tlbyford the pig-headed book buyer

See, I am very picky about cover art. If it's not done in a style I like or tries too hard to be neo-Classical/realistic but fails (think a lot of fantasy book covers), I won't read it. Yeah, yeah, I know, judging a book by it's cover. But a photograph can't be a style I dislike or not realistic enough or whatever, so the cover makes less difference for me if it is a photo.

My point being, everyone's silly neurotic buying compulsions make no difference on an individual level; we can argue all day over why we say "it has to be photo" or "it has to be painted", but no one is remotely close enough to normative to really give an indication as to the general pull of the market. My guess is, if the publishers are producing photo-covers, then most people want photo-covers.

If you won't buy a fiction book with a photo cover, you won't be reading much YA next year. I've seen a lot of the new YA covers and it must be at least 80% photos to illustrations.

but you have to take into account that chain buyers DO influence the look of a book. Not all publishers bend to their wishes but some, usually smaller houses, are forced to take those opinions into consideration in order to get a buy.

Very true, I have had to redo covers based on the booksellers wish to have it a blue background instead of pink, take out a clown nose, because many people are afraid of clowns, etc.
Publishers can also make mistakes in using a cover, based on old stats about what will attract the buy, what will not. Witness the Bloomsbury fiasco.

Would you say that works the other way around? I have read many books by British authors and thoroughly enjoyed them because they give you a great idea of setting and mood, and I know a lot of authors get translated into other languages and published in Australia/Britain. Do you think setting affects how popular our books are to them at all?

Take heart, it can be done. I did it. I'm writing historical mysteries, so it's not your genre, but I'm in Sydney, Australia, writing books set in Classical Greece, have an agent in NY (Janet Reid) and a contract with Minotaur.

I don't believe it makes any difference where you are in the world physically. Everyone works by email anyway. Be warned if you sell to the US you'll need a magic number from the IRS called an ITIN.

Of course it works the other way around, TLH. Why wouldn't it?

It's been a little while since I was a young adult, but when I was one, I loved reading books that took place in other countries. I'd imagine that kids interested in paranormal/urban fantasy would also be interested in other countries.

Melina Marchetta, Garth Nix, Barry Jonsberg, Marcus Zusak, Margo Lanagan, Justine Larbalestier, Simmone Howell, Catherine Jinks, Alyssa Brugman, Lisa Shanahan, John Marsden... Jeez, the list of great Aussie YA authors is long and AWESOME.

It is a known fact that the world has a crush on Australians. The US publishing world is no exception. You might (MIGHT) have to take out some regionalisms in vocabulary for a US market - but that depends a lot on the editor who gets your book.

Anyway, if you are a good enough writer, an agent won't care if you live on Mars and set your stories on Pluto. Australia is no problem.

due to the fact that the Australian industry is currently in dire straits

I'm not sure that's correct: year on year, I think the Australian market is weathering the recession better than the US and UK markets. (Can't find a link to the most recent data, but I will keep looking.) And the effect of (possibly) abolishing territorial copyright is still not known.

That's not to say that this writer shouldn't pursue a US agent or publisher, just that our industry is more buoyant than suggested here. (Particularly kids and YA, which is currently outgrowing the rest of the market.)

Getting a book set in Australia published in the US would probably be easier than getting a book set in the US published in Australia - at least from my (limited) experience.

I wouldn't give up on the local industry, though - there's still lots of agents taking submissions and new books being published here (in Oz, that is).

I wish you luck.

And keep in mind that on the whole, Americans love Australia!

Author, Are you who I think you are?
;-)

If so, your writing rocks! I can't wait to see your book(s) on U.S. shelves!!!
:-)

Don't forget Margaret Mahy!!! (One of my childhood favorites, and she's still writing...)

I used to love Australian books as a kid.... the whole "Celebrating Christmas with a BBQ on the beach" thing was kid of trippy, though. =)

Have to make the comment - as an Australian - that the industry here isn't really in dire straits, they're just really picky about what goes to market.

So... the good news is, if you can make it here, you can probably make it anywhere.

The bad news is, it may be your story and/or your writing.

Blaming the market is always the easier option than doing a little self-examination of your work.

A good book is a good book.

Yaay! Scott Westerfeld's right at the cutting edge, then.

REALLY!?!
Holy cats, that's exactly what I was about to start querying
And I am never, ever on the edge of the trend. Ha!

Hahahah, sweet. My friend and I were just discussing the trends right now. I thought it was steampunk last month, with superhero stuff still big but on the way out.

Sweet.

Am I the ONLY one who had to google 'steampunk'?

YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO TELL THEM THAT.

you mean you read a fair NUMBER of industry blogs?

i'm sorry. i can't stop myself.

Oh, good, because the more I hear about the changing market, the less I want to sit down and read books in my genre that are right off the press (while ignoring everything else).

I hope to someday be an intern out there, too, and this is great advice. Thanks!

Ooooh, really! Are there any sites you or anyone else can recommend on the latest in 'Steampunk' lit ... ?

Hmmmm...nothing like old technology and romance for that odd couple killer hit.

I thoroughly approve of steampunk.

Thanks for introducing me to a new term – I've never heard it used in the UK. I've encountered 'counterfactual history' before, and maybe others, but I much prefer 'steampunk'.

If you're only just starting your steampunk novel right now, you are still too late. If they are being acquired now, they'll come out probably before you can complete yours and then, lo and behold, you will be in possession of a book no one wants.

This is why you shouldn't follow trends, people.

Plus -- I'm betting steampunk has a very short shelf life, so to speak, as a whole.

How about superhero with a splash of steampunk? A little atmosphere can go a long way, right?

Thanks, moonrat. That is one of my grammatical pet peeves. Shouldn't an almost-college-graduate aspiring to a literary career know better?

Really? I stopped reading steampunk a year ago. And I'm like, all 1908 'n' stuff.

I'm eager to read some new books in the steampunk genre! Everything I've read so far has been around for a while, so I'm glad publishing is recognizing how fun this genre can be, especially when crossed with other genres.

I completed one recently, a steampunk urban fantasy set in NYC, but it's adult, not children's fiction. My agent is getting some interest and it recently won first place in a contest, so my fingers are crossed that a sale is right around the corner! Though I've said that before about other projects. Pffft. :)

Those thinking about trying it on for size, if it's a genre you like, go for it. We should all write in the genres we're passionate about regardless of trends.

Well, I was excited to get my question posted. I'm sorry I made the error - I'm not going to make excuses, because I do feel rather stupid upon another read of it. I don't mind moonrat's remark because it wasn't rude. But thank you, Anonymous, really.

Peevish remarks aside, thanks for answering my question. I really do appreciate it.

Bailey Thomas

If it's a trend it's already over. The trick is not in finding the current trend but in guessing the next trend. Or creating it.

When we were doing Animorphs the trend was horror. No one was buying middle grade sci fi.

Then, suddenly, horror was over and sci fi was the trend. We rode that for 5 years. Having become the trend, we killed the trend.

We guessed it (the market) would go to fantasy next. We were right, unfortunately for us, it wasn't our Everworld series it was a modest little thing called Harry Potter.

Now I'm in a YA trend called "apocalyptic" which is being defined by several people, most notably Suzanne Collins and Cory Doctorow.

I'm trying to guess what's next. I've put my money on middle grade comic adventure. But you never know. If I could tell the future I'd have shorted Lehman.

What is 'superhero' stuff? YA or adult? I know a reader who'd consume that stuff. And I've been looking for a gift ...

Recommendations? Other than that 'Invincible' one, that I already know about.

Hey, Michael, you're married to KA Applegate! (In case you didn't know.)

Would you do me a favor? Just reach forward and tap the place where this comment appears on your screen. Maybe some of the vibe will transmit through the e-ther.

Anon @ 10:05 --

YA superhero... DULL BOY, by Sara Cross is a newer one. I think it's going to be a series?

celi.a mentioned Scott Westerfeld. I, too, am looking forward to "Leviathan". But in the meantime, I've been enjoying Kenneth Oppel's "Airborn", "Skybreaker", and "Starclimber".

Hi, Bingol:

I did better. I read your comment to Katherine who laughed.

BTW there's much fairly serious talk from Scholastic about a relaunch and spin-off of Animorphs. Nothing definite yet.

Ha! I win the day! I'm a big fan of Katherine's (and the first chapter of Gone ain't too shabby, either!).

On the other hand, Scholastic rejected me last week. So if there -is- a relaunch, please pee in the lobby.

(And good luck!)

The Westerfeld was amazing, kid readers are going to be nuts for it but it will be very hard to find "more like that" for the voracious readers. What's really important is how little steampunk there for the ten and up age group. Write faster.

I've got a feminist steampunk novel if anyone wants to take a read. Point me in the direction of an agent that reps SP and I will gladly come by and wash your car every day for a month!
Google Chenda and the Airship Brofman.

LOL!
Depressing and funny. Reading your blog is making me bipolar, yanno.

Fabulous!

COL. :(

That's depressing!

Now if only we knew we could rate ourselves accurately on the first two.

Very cool breakdown though. Thanks for this!

Totally true. It's the PUBLIC that ultimately makes the decisions, not really the publishers. We're the ones out there dropping coin on reality show fiction. I vowed awhile ago to open it and scan it at the bookstore, but not pay for it and bring it home. Same goes for tabloids. I get enough fill at the stores, and save my dime for something better. :)

Motivating! No, Depressing. No, inspiring! No... ugggh.

*Embarks on a mission to become a heavily screwed-up Hollywood celebrity*

Wow! I love the publishometer... I'm been playing with it all morning long... it's addictive!

:D Brilliant!

I think I may cry.

This is great, EA. Thanks. Oh, and by the way, I loved that you thought of including "famous for something people actively want to keep their children away from" and giving it zero points. That was good thinking. The first thing that came to mind was a picture book written by Hugh Hefner. LOL! (Please don't tell me there really is one.)

So I'm trying to figure out the number of points I might earn. In the Degree of Celebrity column, I'm the library Storylady and I have about 150 kids per week come to my programs. I also visit elementary schools with my manuscript and kids get all excited about it. Would that get me 80 points? 60 points?

Just when you feel slightly good, this makes you feel worse. But it is okay. I'll keep going.

Unless they've been submitting to literary charities, it seems the correspondent answered their own question right about here:

just because it may sell better

So unless I sleep with some Holliwood big wig, I'm toast and will never get published. Too bad I live far, far away from Hollywood's clutches.
*shrugs* I'm good with that.

I did not mean this to be depressing.

I simply expect you to be shooting for a Quality of Writing level of "delightful" and a Topic Interest level of "my kid likes that, and so do I". Anything hitting both of those has a high probability of getting published.

You're all supposed to know how to write, and know what speaks to kids and parents. Which is why we like you so much better than damn celebrities!

Hysterical. I mean, I'm hysterical at how true this is.
AAAAHHHH!

Namaste,
Lee

Love this! Brilliant! Not only funny and perceptive but very useful for unpublished authors.

I think the ones that call it motivating are probably newbies, no offense.

If you've been in this for a while and have been passed over by editors who wanted your book to be "...a little more this and a little less that or a little less that and a little more this..." and you've finally made it to aquisitions meetings only to be shot down, and during all this you've alternately had editors string you along by not reading your agented-subbed ms for five or six months at a time, and your own agent is mostly AWOL, forcing you to dump her after it took you two YEARS to get a freaking agent, AND THEN you see Lauren Conrad of "The Hills" fame announce a three book deal (ghostwritten, no doubt) and the first comes out eight months later and end up on the NYT best-seller list, yeah, you know, it isn't motivating. It blows. All of it.

I love this, EA. I think it's fun even if it's true that Hollywood celebs get the book deals automatically. Have any of you considered how many actors are out there who are not celebs? They've already lived the slush pile and the majority of them don't make it out.

Yeah - shoot for writing better and on a more desirable topic.

What the hell is funny about shutting out the talent that puts the food on your table, editors? This is a joke? How can trained juvenile writers try and get jobs as actors, musicians, or sports stars? There is no competing here. These celebs already have jobs that pay them quite well. It's *funny* they take over other's trained and sincere efforts to get paid and work? No wonder the business is falling apart. When the editors who are laughing are out of work, remind me how funny this is. And when this madness shifts back into reality, I'll remember NEVER to approach you for work. I'll take my talent to those who appreciate it.

Wah!

Wow. It kind of looks like all the time we spend trying to improve our writing isn't that valuable!

Thanks, EA. Funny and interesting. And you're right, in your comment, we should always be shooting for a level of writing that's "delightful."
As for the celebrities, the skeptical side of me wonders how many of those books are ghost-written. I'd say quite a few, but I don't know. Anyone know?
I'm not a big fan of celebrity-written children's books, unless they're really good -- as it should be with any book. But I will say this, if a parent who's not much of a reader will buy a book for his/her child because he/she's a fan of the celebrity who wrote it, that can help introduce the child to books and hopefully become a reader for life and I'm all for that. Also, if the book is ghost-written, then at least some of that author money is going to a hard working writer, and that's not a bad thing either. And if the celebrity wrote the book and it's brilliant, well, then they deserve all the success it will get.

Jesus, Anon, way to miss the point.

1) This was not an endorsement of the ease with which celebrities get their books published.

and

B) The "talent that puts food on their tables" isn't you, bud. It's those celebrities, because their books sell a gazillian copies. If you want to lash out at somebody, and you don't want to be pathetically misdirected, lash out at the sheeple who buy those ghostwritten or subpar celebrity novels. Don't buy any yourself. Convince your friends not to buy any. Blog about how you shouldn't buy any.

I don't think you'll do any good, but at least you'll be tilting at the right goddam windmill.

And while you're at it, don't watch Entertainment Tonight or TMZ, don't read tabloids, don't read People, and don't follow the goings on of celebrities just because they're celebrities. All these publishers are doing is reflecting our own culture back to us. Don't like it? Don't be a part of that culture.

Thanks, E.A.,
This gets me off to a great start this week! I'll be smiling all day. Really appreciate the time you took to send us some humor. Beats the $14.00 movie I saw last night.
Happy Editing!

Brilliant, true, and I'm going to go jump off a bridge now...

Anonymi who are justifiably upset: This is reality, at least in North America today. Stop thinking that this reality is going to put editors or publishers who don't "appreciate your talent" out of business; it's not. There are too many celebrities and too many people who will pay for their stuff, orangutan writing or not. So you can:
a) Do as Vacuum Queen suggests and try to change reality by how you drop your coins (among other things).
b) Laugh to prevent crying (or embarking on screaming rages with guns)
c) Get out of this business. You can always write for friends, yourself, and library story hour.
d) Both A and B.

Personally, I like D.

As someone who works in kid's books, I can think of several times celebrities or semi-celebrities were turned down because their books didn't have appeal. I can also think of celebrities whose kid's books weren't best sellers because they kind of sucked.
It makes me sad that you unpublished folks are commenting about being jealous or depressed or bitter. Are you writing to get on the best seller list? Or are you writing because you love to write and love kids etc? You'll be much happier (and more likely to sell your books to an editor) if you are in the second-category.
If you have a great voice, writing chops and are dedicated to your craft, you will eventually get published, celeb or not. I think that's what EA is saying with this publishometer.

I think the reason it might be a bit depressing is because, well, it's not that hard to get up to 'good writer.' It takes a LOT more work to break through into the 'delightful' category.

Maybe I can just kidnap Ally Carter and Rick Riordan, chain them up in my living room, and force them to instruct me in the arts of writing until I rise to their level?

Except then they'd never finish THEIR next books, and I'd be stuck wondering what was going to happen next FOREVER!

See, EA? It's a no-win situation! =)

Joe Iriarte writes... Jesus, Anon,

There ya go, Joe, dropping Celeb names! ;)

Haste yee back ;-)

VERY funny - and I'm purposely trying to take advantage of this situation. Our site lets people "cast" favorite fiction using celebrities, and we think this activity will goose a book launch - for free - as long as it has celebrity names attached to it, even if it's just a "fantasy cast". The Academy gives out the Oscars, but it's Joe and Jane Sixpack who crown the American Idol. Same dance, just books. And if it lets a literature instructor inject 'movie fun' into a classic, we're all winners.

"If you have a great voice, writing chops and are dedicated to your craft, you will eventually get published, celeb or not. I think that's what EA is saying with this publishometer."

Actually, note that having a topic with consumer interest over the 50% mark on the scale beats out even transcendent writing. I think that's fairly accurate and THAT'S the point that more of us (at least, those of us with literary or "quiet" or oddball or you-name-the-adjective work) get most discouraged by, not the celebrity thing.

Lauren Conrad's book was written by an orangutan?

Just kidding.

No, seriously...was Clyde, the same orangutan that co-starred with Clint Eastwood?

P.S. The $14.00 movie was "Bruno". If you haven't seen it, he was attempting to become a...? Right. Celebrity!

I appreciate the recap of what all of us already knew. This is inspriation to just write better (and enjoy the process more.)
Thanks again!

Those of us non-celebrities with oddball topics who work hard to perfect our craft have another option--an independent or alternative publisher whose mission matches what we write. OK, you're probably not going to get rich publishing with a small press, and you're probably not going to get the kind of attention a major publisher with a savvy marketing department can offer, but a really well-written and original book can find its own path. My new YA novel may be on one of the most unusual topics of the year, but I did find a real publisher--albeit a small and struggling one--and the novel has been treated with respect by critics and in the marketplace.

For those who are upset by this information - I truly don't get it.

This absolutely does NOT mean that you won't be published. It just means that you have to have a good idea and be a terrific writer -- how is that different from what you THOUGHT the qualifications for publication were?

OOhh baby, I've tallied my points and I have a chance! Remote, but there's hope...

"There ya go, Joe, dropping Celeb names!"

LOL!

Do author/illustrators get extra points? Only if he/she has a highly original style? It's often said that illustrations can trump the text of a picture book thereby increasing an author/illustrator's chance of being published--is it true?

Mag - Flipping - Nifficent!!!

Warning--- this is my first rant of the morning --so it's a little long.

I was always under the impression that in today's market, you had to be awesome.

The big question is, I think, how does an author BECOME awesome? The answer seems to be lots of time in the saltmines of revision.

But if you've gotten into kidlit as a get rich quick scheme, you're probably better off entering Publisher's Clearinghouse online.

Heck, even the all around acknowledged GREAT children's and YA writers don't seem to get rich... if they're LUCKY and work like slaves, they might make enough to replace their day job, but rich??

Celebrities make more from books, but there's an oppurtunity cost involved-- while they were writing their 1 million dollar novel, they COULD have been working on a 2 million dollar movie! Celebrity time is just WORTH more in the marketplace.

It's no use getting upset. We all just need to work harder so that we can be a Jane Yolen/ Katherine Patterson/ Robin McKinley / Jessica Day George (Okay, she's not up there with the others YET , but her books are really great, and she seems to have a long, productive future ahead of her!)

But all those authors have worked hard, struggled, listened to critiques, tried to apply them even when they want to tear their hair at, and generally played by the rules.

Being angry at celebrities is being angry because the rest of us have rules. Well, celebrities get free passes on MOST rules in our society-- heck, if a normal person lived like that she'd end up in jail, lose her license permenantly, and probably finish her life as a stoned addict on a street corner with a cardboard sign.

IF you want to rail about celebrity culture and how unfair it is, fine. But kidlit did not CREATE that culture--- editors and publishers are stuck with it just like we are.

So quit sniffling, spend a few hours with some of the really great new books out there that AREN'T by celebrities, and then get back to work!

I'm just waiting for Jon or Kate to come out with a children's book.

Ew, really?

Speaking as an orangutan, I am outraged by your deprecations. Our measure of zero intelligence is Katie Price and everyone else who appears in Hello!, OK, Heat or equivalent celeb magazine.

Wonderful! Made me laugh out loud!

The only thing I might add is "similarity to something that is already selling really well - 10 points."

"famous for something people actively want to keep their children away from"

Doesn't that just about cover Madonna?

Very entertaining. No one ever said this business is easy.

I wonder how many copies of their books the celebrity actually sells. Frankly, I never read their autobiographies. Some of them are nice people, but I'm still not interested. They already have enough money so if they don't become best sellers they'll do just fine.

Very interesting post.

Shawj- I don't know. The way some people dress their toddlers, I'd say that they actively WANT their children to be like Madonna! =P

In fact, I bet there are SOME psycho-stage-mother types who'd even snap up a Lindsey Lohan or Paris Hilton kid book!

Oh No!
That means for me (being opto-mystic):

delightful 40 points
readability 70 points
unknown 0 points
------

110 so so close

now:
-go back to college for another degree in something I can make a living at
-keep on writing
-keep submitting 'cause maybe there will be an agent for me yet

For those of us who have no control over our Hollywood-level fame, and can only guess what the public will by dying for by the time we're shopping our novel, it looks like the approximate path is:

Writing: Delightful
Topic: My kid and I like that
Celebrity: Previously published (do short stories count?).

So I'm rather curious now: how would you scale the likelihood of a published book becoming a hit?

My word is anghtize, which is what I think this scale may have done to many!

Anonymous 3:34--
110 means your work has a high likelihood of being published.

120 will definitely be published.
90 has no chance at all.
So everything in between are varying degrees of probable.

D'Arvit!

I scored myself at 85. Note to self: have octuplets.

My current scheme (since schemes keep me amused while waiting on publishers) is to write a two-month twitter tale and become a celebrity at that. Doomed to failure, you say? Read the story from August 1 this year and see if it's transcedent enough for ya. (It has pirates.)

http://twitter.com/Louise_Curtis_

Can I hear an Amen? Amen! LOL

Maybe I should be putting more effort into become a celebrity than I do into my writing then... :(

Tried leaving a comment yesterday, but everything went a bit haywire.

Here's my post of the children's lit awards.

I have to say that the idea the Kindle and its ilk will replace traditional publishing sort of (in a complete kind of way) leaves the economically disadvantaged without books. What are we planning on doing? Supplying all kids with an e-reader? Who thinks up this crap? People with more money than sense? Why bother with the have-nots - do they even read anyway, eh?

Sorry. Rant over.

In retrospect, I wonder if I made a mistake when I wrote the story in 3rd person POV, seeing as this manuscript was YA and that's the preferred viewpoint in the genre.

I'm puzzled by this remark. YA is a genre? With a "preferred viewpoint"?

This one makes me sad, because of the amount of work that's already been done.

QUOTE: "...an intimidating 140,000 ... I expect I'll get a form rejection for mentioning that word count, so my question is, do I submit anyway and see if the writing sells it, or should I pitch it as a two-book set?..."

My thoughts:

* If "writing" were the only reason for an editor to buy something, or an agent to take it on, I'd have an agent and a book deal. In my case, I am continually, unrelentingly praised for my "amazing writing" yet no one wants my damn book(s).

* 140,000 words is looooong. It just is. There's no way around that. Unless you are a cousin of Stephenie Meyer and have created a new brand of Edward Cullen for screaming teens, it's going to be a tough sell all the way around. You are forgetting that it has to sell all the way up the publishing chain. First to an agent, then to an editor, then to other editors at the house in an acquisitions meeting, then to the houses' profit and loss people. And then to the marketing department. All this before it gets to a bookshelf.

The more out of the box (too long; too whatever) a manuscript is the harder it is for all these people to agree. Lack of agreement means you don't sell the book.

* the thing about it needing to be a stand alone book is that it should read like one. Reading like a stand alone book often means it shouldn't be the weight and heft of a phonebook.

If you can't edit it down, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Though, you'd be surprised, what you CAN edit out and never miss from a book. Get some distance from the book. Come back to it in a month and see what you can cut.

Good luck.

You're right, Sarah M-- that should be commented on, too.

There are plenty of third person POVs in YA, and YA is an age group, not a genre.

I'm with you, Sarah L.

Shrinking the distance between author and reader is a pothole-riddled road, indeed. Recently, I've heard people complain about bad grammar, poor spelling (perhaps typos) and redundancy in language that are making it into published books. I saw this happening in newspapers where I used to work as a features reporter. As papers downsized, the staff shrunk and so did time for writing, editing and copy-editing. Result--glaring mistakes.
This trend in publishing, which I know is economically driven, doesn't serve literature or literacy.
I still recall the actions of a young man attending a university writing class. The instructor pointed out in critique that the man needed to fix spelling and grammar. That incited the man to gather up his books and announce that such work was done by copyeditors, not writers. He left and never returned.

Kindle is just ALL AROUND bad for kids --

1. Expensive

2. Not sturdy enough to trust your kids with

3. Not browsable in the same way a bookcase is. You can't lay 3 PBs out side by side, flop on your stomach, and study them all simeltaneously. You can't pluck a book from Mom and Dad's shelf and read something you never would have chosen on your own. You can't look up at row upon row of books and think "When I'm bigger, I'll read that one."

Of course, kids will also be spared the disappointment of a Kindergartener I once babysat. He picked up a copy of Clancy's "The Bear and the Dragon" (because he could read the spine) and was VERY disappointed that there were no pictures of bears OR dragons inside......

Good point, Sarah Laurenson. In the case of Kindle, though, it's not just the economically disadvantaged that would be without books. It would be every person outside the U.S. of A.

As for the Russian reviewer/author fiasco:

"Some have even suggested that if a book reviewer can be sued, a reader who did not like a book can sue the author for making a bad quality product."

Sometimes I wish we could! Especially when the book in question is riddled with typos, grammar mistakes, and plot holes. Not liking a story is one thing... but having to put up with things that are just wrong and detract from the overall quality of the product is another.

I completely feel the pain of the person who asked the second question about the books without summaries on the back cover. As a librarian, this is completely frustrating! So frustrating that, if I knew the book didn't have the summary when I selected it, I might not have selected it at all. I taught my students to read the back of the book (and the first five pages) to see if it sounded like something they would like to read. Without that summary, they have no clue what to expect.

Honestly, it's beyond idiocy.

I have a friend who self publishes, and even though I enjoy her story ideas, her grammar leaves a lot to be desired. I wonder if the novelty of self publishing will wear off after people realize they really do need an editor.

Ohhh, I so agree about putting flap copy on library bindings. When buying books for my collection, I want the sturdier bindings but no plot summary often means that no one is going to pick it up. Sigh.

I suppose that if the Kindle did become the book-reading device of choice, the price of secondhand books would plummet. That would be a bonanza for us paper-loving folk!

And yes, let's have information about the book on the cover. Not reviews. And certainly not reviews for a previous book!

This is for the person with a 140K book. The book my agent sold was 93K (YA). The first thing my editor did was say, "You need to cut 75 pages. There's a lot of repetition." I thought it would kill me before I started, but guess what? Yep. No problem to cut it because there was a lot of repetition.

The next round of edits came and my editor said, "You need to cut 65 more pages." Seriously. I thought I'd never be able to do it. Guess what? Not as easy as the first cut, but not as hard as I thought it would be.

The thing to remember here is that when we sold her this book, I thought it was as good as I could possibly get it and I did not think there was ANYTHING that could be cut. As my agent read it, I was so worried he'd ask me to cut it because I just KNEW there wasn't anything unimportant in it! Alas...I ate about 40K words!

My guess is there's a lot to cut in your book and instead of trying to do it all at once, try cutting 50 pages. Then see where you're at. Then maybe cut another 50.

If you're looking at it now and seeing that it absolutely can't be cut, what about dividing it into two books, but making sure they each have a beginning, middle, and end. Then you can try selling the first one (without mentioning the second one until you have an agent or editor excited about the first one). If it were me, I'd try cutting first and this second. Good luck!

"In the future, it [Kindle] could become the only publisher a bestselling author needs."

The key word here is 'bestselling.' For those of us without six hundred thousand Facebook fans and an army of dedicated blogers, publishers will still be necessary not only for editing but also for marketing, distribution, sub-rights and international sales and all the rest.

Stephen King apparently hasn't been seriously edited for years and his readers don't seem to mind. Why keep not cut out the middleman if you're him?

Sarah, BuffySquirrel, rest easy. I went to a great Authors Guild talk last week and everyone agreed that the Kindle isn't going to replace paper.

It will supplement paper, especially for stories that suit its particular ability to deliver content to readers. It will trigger some kind of evolution of content to suit its nature, but books will continue to be made and read, however much the business model around them changes. Picture books are much less likely to be impacted, since their use, as Deirdre points out, has a strong tactile and material component.

I'm much less concerned about the continuing role of the editor than I am about that of another publishing professional: the designer.

I know most people here are writers and think of text as text, but spare a thought for the high art of the font-choosing, leading-adjusting, paper-selecting typomaniacs in charge of your book's appearance and physical form. They don't just lay display type over illustrations in picture books... their Caslons and Bodonis and Garamonds give your novel its visual soul and your middle-grade chapter book its white-space lung capacity.

They, much more than editors, will be the first-wave losers in Kindle world since they - unlike editors - are largely crafters of physical objects. The Kindle currently treats text as pure text, without any of the attributes that designers lavish their art on. As the print list shrinks, so will the designer's sphere, unless the digital realm can find some way to absorb them.

That could happen, of course, but we're not there yet. I hope we get there.

I agree that the Kindle is an expensive dead end. The future is in cellphone literature. Most children already own cellphones, and are quite comfortable sitting around reading text on them all day long anyway. Why not target them? In countries where this penetration is even more complete (esp. Japan and S. Korea) there are already so many novels written in and distributed over this medium that they have come to comprise a distinct genre all of their own. I needn't elaborate on the liberties that have been taken with grammar and spelling in these novels. You may imagine them, have a wee shudder over the inferiority of the benighted successor generation, and get over it.

Anon-- Cellphone lit would also be great for people in the developing world--- Cell phones are becoming ubiquitous and cheap--they're a very democratic technology...

And for those kids who have to run 10 miles each way to school, carrying their books on a cellphone might be a huge improvement!

When it comes to travel and book stacks, Kindle and Sony are a blessing!





Word Verification: Scids -- A little bit more than scads...as in too much to carry.

Example: I have scids of books to read over vacation. So I'll take my kindle reader along for the ride. Scids.

I think all that's left to say is that I must find a way to work the phrase "uluate in despair" into everyday conversation. Brilliant.

A footnote on the Russian case...When the review first came out, the plaintiff wrote a response that his own journal wouldn't publish because they were afraid of a libel suit! So he published it anyway on his website, changing one letter of the reviewer's name. She sued and lost; he sued her and won. Meanwhile, the reviewer's journal is embroiled in legal battles having to do with freedom of the press, prompting it to start an alternative site on LJ. Oh, and the plaintiff is related to the former leader of Dagestan.

If you read Russian, you can find details, including some of the legal documents, at http://nv-daily.livejournal.com/?skip=20

everyone needs an editor. shelby foote needed an editor. if god wrote books, *god* would need an editor.

"There will still be a place for talented writers and the editors who help stop the rest of them from drawing attention to themselves. Possibly it will be an even brighter future, where the authors who are sure they don't need the interference of an editor can find out for themselves just how much the public appreciates the unedited them."

All I'm hearing in my head is The Shack, The Shack, The Shack, The Shack and I'm beset with painful shudders.

The "buying yourself a trophy" line really puts self-publishing in a new perspective for me. It isn't something I have ever wanted to consider, and now I would feel guilty and pathetic about it.

I think self-pub is good for certain genres, like how-to, for instance--or even a local-based cookbook. <br /><br />Writing a sewing or knitting book and self-publishing isn&#39;t about buying yourself a trophy. It&#39;s about tiny markets and events and building platform, etc. But it&#39;s not the kind of thing you can run through a vanity press, either. <br /><br />(How-to is usually going to

mmm... &quot;real&quot; publishing gets it wrong all the time. The Shack (&quot;self-published&quot;) sold 7 million. That&#39;s a plenty-big trophy even if the Major League didn&#39;t approve the stamp. I&#39;m blogging about it this week.

Jazz and Anon, self-publishers can sometimes take home pretty respectable trophies. The Shack is at 7 million copies and rising...

HWPetty-- Agreed: there are some self-publishing scenarios that make sense. <br /><br />The one that doesn&#39;t, though, is the one where people expect publishing professionals to recognize their self-published book as meaning something to future work. Listing self-published books in your cover letter to publishers bespeaks a tremendous lack of perspective.

Yes, self-publishing makes a lot of sense for some books - the aforementioned regional books, self-help, inspirational books with a built in platform, etc. <br /><br />And there will be the exceptions - those self-published books that because of gimmicky marketing, platform, really savvy promotion or (more often, a combination of those with sheer luck), hit the attention of the mainstream buying

(I think we can all agree that self-publishing for regional topics or cookbooks sold to bolster a charity isn&#39;t the kind of self-publishing the OP had in mind.)<br /><br />I know I&#39;m a grouch today, so please feel free to ignore me entirely... BUT every time the subject of self-publishing comes up, someome defends it by listing best-sellers such as The Shack. (I&#39;m not picking on you

Anonymous at July 6, 2009 9:28 AM<br /><br />I actually totally agree with you. <br /><br />My point was yes, there are the exceptional cases, but they usually have some large bit of hook, luck, platform, etc. that makes them the exceptional case - ie, results not typical for those who choose to self-publish.<br /><br />I totally agree that &quot;...the odds of having your book be important or

I love it when people use phrases like &quot;publishers get it wrong ALL the time&quot; and then give ONE example. Or ten. Or even twenty.

This just in: yet another self-published author (this time on Kindle) has scored a two-book deal with S&S:

http://www.teleread.org/2009/07/11/self-published-kindle-author-gets-contract-with-simon-schuster/

I know, I know... 'exceptions'. But before we get too smug about the stupidity about the self-published, let's remember that if you win the long shot, it doesn't matter how long it was.

I agree with the meat of this post, but I for one am glad that shoppers at Target and Costco sometimes grab books there too.<br /><br />Particularly in a major recession. How many folks do you think are squeezing in their visits to Target and Costco in between working long hours at (maybe multiple) crappy-paying jobs, regretting that all their time with their children is spent doing errands (

The way this question is worded makes me think the person who sent it has their book through a vanity printer like PublishAmerica. If that&#39;s the case, there&#39;s more than lack of distribution holding you back. There&#39;s also lack of marketing toward bookstores on the part of the printing house, and in the case of PA, you can&#39;t discount the high price and poor physical quality of the

<i>So if your publisher is a behemoth corporation that paid $300,000 for your book, and the book sells 25,000 copies in its first year, then the book has FAILED.</i><br /><br />Of course the author&#39;s probably not crying.

Available &quot;online&quot; means virutually nothing. <br /><br />Why?<br /><br />Because, aside from seeking out their favorite authors, most consumers wander into a book store and BROWSE. Pick up books, read the back covers. Flip through a page or two. They don&#39;t know what they want until they SEE it. <br /><br />If your book isn&#39;t on a shelf it won&#39;t GET seen. Which means it won&

Can someone explain this: <br /><br />&quot;...The book consumers we would use to wipe our feet on are shopping at Target and Costco...&quot;<br /><br />I don&#39;t get it. Because the books are cheaper there?

I live in a small town in a relatively rural area. We have a Target and a Costco in town, and I&#39;m half an hour away from the closest bookstores, which are B&amp;N and Borders. I&#39;m over an hour&#39;s drive from the nearest indie bookstore. As much as I&#39;d love to shop indie, I can&#39;t. And there are plenty of people like me in similar situations.

I just got the word that my last hardcover picture book, released March 31 this year just went into its second reprinting. <br /><br />And I was prepared to see it tank because it wasn&#39;t picked up by B&amp;N and Borders.

<i>I live in a small town in a relatively rural area. We have a Target and a Costco in town, and I&#39;m half an hour away from the closest bookstores, which are B&amp;N and Borders. I&#39;m over an hour&#39;s drive from the nearest indie bookstore. As much as I&#39;d love to shop indie, I can&#39;t. And there are plenty of people like me in similar situations.</i><br /><br />May I suggest

<i>Can someone explain this:<br />&quot;...The book consumers we would use to wipe our feet on are shopping at Target and Costco...&quot;<br />I don&#39;t get it. Because the books are cheaper there?</i><br /><br />No, because the selection is so limited. Think about that. It makes a big difference to the industry.

I used to love Target books. Now I hate them.<br /><br />Coincidentally, they carried my last book, and not my most recent.

Obviously I totally agree with your rallying people to shop indie! <br /><br />However, I&#39;d take exception to the idea that anyone &quot;wipes their feet on&quot; the book *CONSUMERS* that shop at Target and Costco. There are times when a trip to T or C is feasible and a trip 90 miles or more to a bookstore is not... should they just not buy a book if they see it there, as some sort of

Online purchasing is great when I know what book I want. For instance, I needed a copy of Paul Auster&#39;s &quot;The Man in the Dark&quot; to read for my book club, so I bought a discounted copy from the Book Depository. Free shipping. Great!<br /><br />But when I just want to poke around and see what books there are, nothing beats a bookshop. And there just aren&#39;t any indies around here

I also live in a small, rural area, and I&#39;ve been shocked at how incredibly DECENT the selection at the local Walmart. (Only place that sells non-religious books in a 40 mile radius.) <br /><br />I mean, sure, there&#39;s the usual movie-rip-off crud, and mostly bestsellers, but they actually stock about 10-12 quieter titles too, and the titles seem to change....... They even have a decent

I agree with Elizabeth.<br />But I also think that children&#39;s books in particular can be sold more creatively...Would LOVE to see Toys R Us have a children&#39;s book section. Perhaps they wouldn&#39;t have the diversity of a B &amp; N, but it would still be nice.

ToysRus DOES have a children&#39;s book section (at least in the stores I&#39;ve visited.) It&#39;s just so incredibly tiny and stocked with the very most mass of the mass market titles...but it does have a teensy book section.

Hey, I love Target and Costco! And I&#39;m in the publishing industry. Anyplace that cares enough to give books that much square footage is okay with me.<br /><br />And getting your book into B&amp;N and Borders is a double-edged sword. It may get taken in, shelved spine out, and then returned heavily in 6 months. Then, to the publisher, your book looks a lot less successful with a high return

Hmmm... At first it was amusing and then I kept scrolling down.<br /><br />If this is what you feel like as an intern in publishing, good God, why be in it? How can you be that burnt out already when you haven&#39;t even been down the driveway of your career, much less around the block?<br /><br />That&#39;s the difference between writers and interns/soon-to-be-editors -- writers have to be

Oh, I didn&#39;t take it that way. Both hopeful writers and hopeful editors have to do a lot of work--and suffer a lot of powerlessness-- to get to where they want to be. <br />__________________________<br />I didn&#39;t get the sense from the blog that this intern hates writers. <br /><br />But I can speak from experience that it&#39;s easier to have bad feelings about writers when you&#39;

Thanks for passing this blog addy along. Very interesting stuff.

I didn&#39;t take it that way either. One of the reasons I like to read editor and agent blogs is that I get a view from the other side of the fence. <br /><br />I&#39;ve been doing this writing thing long enough that I&#39;ve had ALL sorts of feelings about the process and even about some of people I&#39;ve worked with or more commonly, about people that chose not to work with me. Fools. :)<br /

INTERN not burnt out!<br /><br />INTERN a ball of smouldering writerlove! No hate lovely write-creatures!<br /><br />Pedal is to the floor in super highway of Publishing Career! <br /><br />In carport of life, INTERN is bicycle pump!<br /><br />peace to earthlings. alphabet useful :)

Quote: &quot;...If this intern is working through some of her perfectly natural stress on her blog, that&#39;s ok...&quot;<br /><br />Of course, the blogger is free to do whatever she wants. But I do find it interesting that writers are always taught from day one not to take anything personally. Ever. Or the business itself will kill you. Form reject on a full? Don&#39;t take it personally. Do a

Why does everybody in publishing want to be Miss Snark when they haven&#39;t even been IN publishing?<br /><br />It&#39;s like signing yourself up to be a playboy centerfold when you&#39;re not even out of your training bra yet. Bad comparision, but still...

Clever style--yes, indeed. But this jab left me feeling more wounded than amused:<br /><br />&quot;Publishers frequently make up a fake &#39;acquisitions editor&#39; so they can tell which submissions are solicited or come from informed sources and which are coming from people who&#39;ve found them in Writer&#39;s Market . . . it&#39;s an instant tip-off that whoever sent it is not in the know.

I actually enjoyed reading THE INTERN&#39;s blog... she is hilarious... and I felt the love.

I was an editorial assistant at Random House UK. The very bottom of the rung. I got the calls nobody else wanted, waded through the letters and submissions complete with pictures of cats and smiley faces in the margin (&#39;my children loved my story of Casper Carrot and his Carroty Friends&#39;) and several times a day, a large beeping reversing truck would dump about 3000lbs MORE of

I&#39;ve fallen bald-head over backpassage fer the INTERN...<br /><br />Love the sense of humor and hope she keeps tellin&#39; it straight outta da pig pen, er, (slush pile)/editorial back-slappin,&#39; window gazin,&#39; thumb twirlin&#39; meetins...<br /><br />Why, I even took the nekkid-lady outta cousin&#39;s Leroy&#39;s nekkid-lady pen cuz of respect fer her!<br /><br />Made Leroy honk his

The SCBWI Bulletin&#39;s have interesting articles in them.<br /> <br />The regional events are the best part of the SCBWI. However, a lot of times you don&#39;t need to be an SCBWI member to attend the regional events -- but non-members are charged a bit more for events.

I love SCBWI. I hooked up with a great crit group through SCBWI.<br /><br />EA: I miss the First Pages. I hope you find the time to do a couple soon.

I belong to SCBWI and the CLN (Children&#39;s Literture Network) and surfing those member boards and asking questions of wiser, more experienced members has definitely kept me from putting my foot in my mouth quite so often. Plus writing is lonely work and it&#39;s nice to belong to a club.

Without disparaging the positive things it provides, I will say I have always felt that SCBWI billing itself as a professional organization--when it is open to anyone and therefore is anything but--is rather deceptive. Encouraging beginning writers and illustrators to list it as some kind of credential is false advertising.

I&#39;m also not sure of the value of joining SCBWI if you&#39;re short on cash and unable to attend conferences. For the first year I was a member it was very helpful--after that I kind of outgrew it. I&#39;ll probably join again if I start making a decent amount of money from writing OR hit a time in my life where conferences are feasible, but for now? I&#39;d rather spend the money on paper

I laughed and nodded about the having a place to send the newbies. Almost for that alone it&#39;s worth supporting-- I was happy to find an information dump (even thought they&#39;re trying to be all things to all people and therefore have less of everything), as a newbie I wanted to know it all and it was very good for me.<br /><br />Deirdre-- it&#39;s interesting that you say that about

I agree with the anonymous comment above. I paid to be a member of SBWI for a while, but it is very far from a professional organisation - most members are unpublished - and I felt it did not meet my needs as a professional writer at all. I can&#39;t see how claiming membership of SCBWI would give publishers a higher opinion of you. By all means be a member if the support it offers is suitable

I think SCBWI&#39;s usefulness curve has two peaks: one, as Dierdre says, right after you join; the other after a longer period of hearing lots of different people speak, often saying contradictory things, and arriving at your own synthesis of what the big picture really is.<br /><br />That said, I think I&#39;ve learned more good, basic stuff reading this blog than I ever did going to

I won a runner-up work-in-progress grant once, so that paid my dues for a few years. :-) Belonging to the SCBWI also makes you eligible for the Golden Kite awards. But when I recommend the SCBWI to new writers, I always also recommend the Blue Boards (http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php), which are free to join and offer a terrific online writing community, with discussions at all levels and

I&#39;ve been going back and forth on whether I should join--thanks for the post. The conferences sound fun and it would be cool to network with other writers, but since it can be expensive, it&#39;s good to know membership not a necessity.

Amy Jane,<br />I don&#39;t see a negative in mentioning it; just in mentioning it like it&#39;s very meaningful. I don&#39;t think less of anyone for being a member-- I&#39;ve met some really terrific people on their way up in SCBWI. But I&#39;ve also met some people who were just going nowhere.

SCBWI is a non-professional, <i>for profit</i> organization. For struggling beginners, their national conference costs are excessive, largely because of the high-priced hotel venues they use. I was already published when I joined, was disappointed by the general level of amateurism, and, as Deirdre described, outgrew it rather quickly. It offers more to writers, but listing it as a credential can

The single best thing I ever did for my children&#39;s publishing career was to join SCBWI. I am very lucky to live in the Seattle area, and this chapter of SCBWI has grown to be a world class operation, in my book. I take advantage of every opportunity I can to get my work in front of the incredible consultants and faculty that come to our conferences and retreats, as well as critique groups

I agree with Deirdre. I joined for a year and then outgrew it. <br /><br />I had no critique groups in my area, and had high hopes of finding one through them. Which was part of the problem -- I had to join to get my local SCBWI chapter&#39;s critique group info, and then found there were no active groups in my area. <br /><br />After I joined I found the conferences were way too expensive (for

I do think that the discussion boards are useful and it&#39;s a good place to start and also to find other writers in your area. <br /><br />I&#39;ve taught at conferences and I got good feedback, so I hope my class was useful. :)<br /><br />I even snagged a picture book contract at a conference - one I taught at. I had a bit of an edge because the faculty usually has dinner together the night

That&#39;s interesting. What kind of profit do they make? I&#39;m curious because I&#39;ve long been concerned that there&#39;s an underlying message -- on the discussion board and elsewhere -- that attending conferences (the personal connection) will help new writers win contracts. It&#39;s true that some writers make sales from conference connections, but I believe it&#39;s because those

Jennifer Mann said: <i>&quot;I am very lucky to live in the Seattle area, and this chapter of SCBWI has grown to be a world class operation, in my book.</i><br /><br /><br />A good friend of mine moved out to Seattle a while back and everything she&#39;s told me supports what you&#39;re saying. It sounds like you&#39;ve got a great group out there.

I read the comments with interest. I have been a member of SCBWI for years and I have never gone to any of the big conferences (went to one or two local ones). I am not a member for the conferences, but for the bulletin and the online resources. <br /><br />Might I suggest to people who have outgrown it that you write an article for the bulletin? You get $50 and a year&#39;s membership. I have

I think maybe the SCBWI thing feeds into the discussion earlier on CSK about how most writers/editors are upper-middle-class.<br /><br />If conferences are a great way to break in, you immediately exclude all the people who can&#39;t afford 1000 for a three day weekend. (Heck, a lot of us couldn&#39;t even justify 1000 for a week-long family vacation!)<br /><br />SCBWI membership may be &quot;A

I&#39;ve heard June is a great month for graduations and weddings. Oh, and proms too. :)<br /><br /><br /><br />The word verification is matiotor...kinda like a bull fighter.<br /><br /><br />(You&#39;ve got great word verifications here. That is another reason I read your blog.)

I have to agree with Dierdre. &quot;Not expensive&quot; is relative. Honestly, I can&#39;t afford to keep myself in printer cartridges lately, and if I&#39;ve got a spare fifty bucks I&#39;d love to buy a few nice new shiny books from an actual bookstore rather than having to put my name on the reservations list at the library. <br /><br />I do sometimes envy those that get to go to BEA, and all

Of course everyone has to make their own cost-benefit analysis for them and their families, but I will say that I have found SCBWI immensely helpful and supportive, and I do recommend it to writers and illustartors all the time.<br /><br />As a caveat, I am unpublished, as are many of the members in my regional chapter. But from my observations, at least in my chapter, the more experienced and

I found SCBWI helpful when I was getting my feet wet on how the industry works. I indirectly found my crit group that way, too. And I like the Bulletin. <br /><br />However, I&#39;ve never been able to afford going to a national conference, and when I&#39;ve lived close enough to somewhere where I could attend a regional one, I had varied results. I recently didn&#39;t renew my membership because

Joelle, are you sure the SCBWI still offers a year&#39;s membership along with payment? I had a piece in there not long ago about a school visit I did in Jamaica, and it seems to me they told me they had dropped the free membership thing. Has it been reinstated?

For folks in the NY/NJ area (or those willing to travel there), check out the Rutgers One on One Conference. I went twice as an alternative to the SCBWI conferences and found it very helpful and inspiring (although the first time was better than the second). You have to apply and be accepted to attend so it&#39;s slightly less newbie-ish than the SCBWI&#39;s.<br /><br />Here&#39;s the link:<br />

The strength of SCBWI is in the regional chapters, and I&#39;m blessed with a terrific one (Carolinas)which has an active message board where published authors and illustrators regularly check in to offer support, advice on tips (new agents accepting submissions, etc.).<br /><br />I got my first publishing credit by following up on an item in the Bulletin, so I&#39;m happy to repay the favor by

I&#39;ve been published 5 times, and I remain a very proud SCBWI member. <br /><br />I don&#39;t know about &#39;outgrowing&#39; it. I don&#39;t think one ever stops learning. Yes there are many newbies in SCBWI (and good for them!), but at all conferences/events I&#39;ve been to there are still sessions for intermediate and advanced writers and illustrators. I still take great and varied things

My experience might be different from many peoples&#39; here, as I&#39;m a member of the British SCBWI chapter. It&#39;s been professionally useful to me over several years.<br /><br />I&#39;m not that much of a socialite but I like the feeling of community, bolstered by the very lively Yahoo group and a good website. <br /><br />As I live in London I sometimes get together with other members

I think SCBWI is useful the way this blog is useful, which, for me, is (a) to provide a sense of community in a field that means something to me and with which I would otherwise have very little contact, and (b) maybe to pick up a few stray tips and leads about the industry. Is it a credential to boast about? Of course not. I don&#39;t think any editor would be impressed if I wrote in my cover

As a long time member, volunteer, presenter at conferences and illustrator of 45 or so published works, I can say that I still get a lot out of being an SCBWI member. On a regional level, I think you basically get out of it what you (and other volunteers) put into it. If you want a more professional track, volunteer to organize an event that would meet those needs. My own region has grown

With all the resources on the Internet, you don&#39;t need an SCBWI membership to educate yourself about the industry. But I am still a member. Some of the members-only web resources are useful to me, and my region (mid-Atlantic) puts on a couple of good annual events close to my home.<br /><br />Any event attracts lots of newbies, but I also hooked up with my critique group at an SCBWI event. I

I often recommend SCBWI to newly aspiring children&#39;s book writers, and this post made me think about why. I also attend the annual conference here in L.A., and this year I asked myself if I really wanted to go. A few thoughts:<br /><br />--I tell people there are no guarantees of connecting with editors at the conference; this usually happens, not on a personal level, but with an announcement

I&#39;m a SCBWI member and have been to two national conferences. I don&#39;t mean to sound harsh but my impression is that this organization is cashing in big time on the hopes and dreams of thousands of aspiring writers who will never get published. But that is my humble opinion.

Kate-- I believe the 1000 figure is closer to the mark for those of us who DON&#39;T live in CA... Remember, for most people it&#39;s not just the conference cost--it&#39;s also hotel, food and airfare each way--- If SCBWI held the conference in the midwest some years (Chicago, or St. Louis or Indianapolis) I&#39;d be more likely to go, as it would be DRIVEABLE, and I&#39;d be able to stay with

Anonymous 11:06,<br />If that were the case, then why would those of us who have been published multiple times be such huge SCBWI fans? <br /><br />Yes, there are people in SCBWI who will never get published—but there are many more wannabes and non SCBWI members who think their first clumsy MS is a bestseller waiting to happen who will never get published. But good for SCBWI members for at least

ON BENEFITS: Like with most things, what you get out of SCBWI will be in direct proportion to what you put in. I was a Regional Advisor for the organization. It was a lot of work, but I now personally know many great editors, agents, writers and illustrators. (As I am writing this, I am at a retreat with 4 other people at the house of NYT Bestseller Ellen Hopkins--also an RA for SCBWI) And

I&#39;ve found SCBWI invaluable for the connections I&#39;ve made over the years--my wonderful crit groups and supportive friends in many parts of the country. When I moved a few years ago, the first thing I did was sign up for a SCBWI retreat, and I immediately became part of an extended writing community in my new state.<br /><br />I&#39;ve been to many SCBWI regional conferences and several

SCBWI needs to wake up. There are 3/4 women members and yet at the NYC conference they only had male keynoters. One RA told me that they help the men because there were so few. Stop washing their diapers. Talk about the ego that one meets at those conferences. If you are lesser known than that famous new author that walks over a back get turned towards you. And if Lin is reading, we were sitting

Well, that&#39;s not the most constructive strategy. Complaining on an anonymous blog is hardly as effective as making a suggestion directly to the organizers of a conference you attended. <br /><br />As to male/female ratio of speakers; I&#39;m not sure that a person&#39;s gender is the strongest measure of whether they are providing the best information, inspiration, etc. <br /><br />Even so,

Can you elaborate on why editors might want to stay in the background? Are they trying to avoid criticism, or unsolicited manuscripts, or...?

Anonymous poses a great question--I would like to hear the answer to that as well. I would love to see names and faces of editors attached to books more often.<br /><br />Regardless, thanks for the post. I plan on sticking with the agent track--at least then you have a higher chance of catching a name in the acknowledgments. <br /><br />Cheers!

Um - the link of the editor whose books were published. Who is that editor? EA? Should we know this?

SCBWI members have access to a members-only publication called &quot;Edited By&quot; which lists some books edited by some editors. I think it is occasionally updated. It isn&#39;t exhaustive, but it&#39;s a good place to start.<br />The dedication or acknowledgments part of a book also often mentions the editor.

I can&#39;t speak for EA and I hope she&#39;ll forgive me jumping in. <br /><br />I&#39;m an editor. I prefer to stay in the background mostly because it&#39;s by nature a behind-the-scenes role. We help to turn a manuscript into a book (sometimes just by polishing it a little; other times by doing wholesale reconstruction). But it&#39;s still the author&#39;s creation, and they should get the

A good editor&#39;s hand should be invisible. <br /><br /><br /><br />That said, if you want to find out who edited something, it is very often either in the acknowledgments, or you can buy a subscription to Publisher&#39;s Marketplace, or you can join the SCBWI or similar, or practice your google-fu - these methods are by no means surefire nor will they give you exhaustive results, but will go a

Also, in response to Minnie, the example EA gave is Karen Lotz, who is the Publisher at Candlewick.<br /><br />EA was saying that Candlewick is one of the few houses that puts lists of who-edited-what online (Though for my own part, I could only find them by googling &quot;editors name candlewick&quot;, not by a cursory glance at the website. And these lists are also not exhaustive).

Sometimes, more than one editor is involved. A project could be orphaned, or for me, the publisher was the acquiring editor, but another editor in-house worked on the book. <br /> I have found that by reading acknowledgments, studying SCBWI conference fliers (which often pair editors with books), blogs, and hanging out at Verla&#39;s you find can often out who edited what. If you work at it, you

An editor&#39;s hand may be invisible to an outsider reading the book, but not to the author. They are always going to stumble across THAT passage or THAT character change and know they just did it to keep the peace. <br /><br />Editors make SO MANY things better but sometimes can also make things a little worse -- if subsequent reviews list X as a troubled spot, and the editor insisted on

Re: This book needed an editior....<br /><br /><br />I think this is often a way of saying &quot;There was a lot of superfluous stuff that could have been cut...&quot;<br /><br />I notice the problem most in series fiction, where the first few books are usually pretty tight, and then, as the series goes on they get longer and looser.<br /><br />I generally chalk it up to authorial success. As in

Deirdre -- Or, it could be that there wasn&#39;t the same level of critical editing and suggestions on the editor&#39;s part (knowing they&#39;d be bestsellers anyway.) <br /><br />The last book of the Twilight saga read like someone other than the author wrote it (abandoning the canons, no big battle, the wtf baby, etc.) -- is that because the editor had been reigning in the author the whole

second on the acknowledgments section. you can learn a lot from those.

Okay, this is something I&#39;m about to do but for the following reason; I write multicultural middle grade and YA, and sometimes editors (not many, but a few) state on interviews and blogs that they&#39;re looking for more diverse protagonists only they haven&#39;t seen any sent their way. Sure, I&#39;m still going the query agent route but I believe it&#39;s a viable avenue...however, my goal

Sometimes knowing what an editor has worked on in the past is no indication as to what they would be willing to work on in the future. It&#39;s seldom that I meet an editor who only likes one type of story. And some of them spend several years working in an area they really don&#39;t enjoy until a position opens up in an area they like better. <br /><br />My book is nothing like the others my

Try the acknowledgment pages of books you love. That&#39;s where you can often find both editors and agent&#39;s names. It&#39;s a good place to find agents who might be a good match for you and you can mention that you read their client&#39;s book in your query and that&#39;s why you chose them (if you liked the book - don&#39;t just say this). I do seem to recall that SCBWI has a page on their

She also has the cutest cartoon avatar! [url]http://www.earlyword.com/category/childrens-and-ya/[/url]

Hmm, guess those HTML tags didn&#39;t work, huh?<br /><br />http://www.earlyword.com/category/childrens-and-ya/

Mara -- those are bb code, not html. You&#39;d have to write:<br /><br />&lt; a href=&quot;www.url.com&quot; &gt;link text&lt; /a &gt;<br /><br />... except remove all of the spaces between the &lt; and &gt; and all the other things. Those are just in there so that the code will show in the post.<br /><br />Cheers!

Agh! I still can&#39;t make it work. Glad I crawled out of the woodwork to display my total coding ignorance to the world. Never mind . . .

The cute cartoon is by Megan Cash who illustrated Bow Wow Bugs a Bug and can be seen by just going to Earlyword.com

What does matter is the bad reputation the author can get from reacting badly to a bad review :).

Bless you, bless you, bless you for posting that about bad reviews. I was fortunate enough to get good reviews for my book although they did not translate into big sales. Maybe a really bad review would have done me more good?

EA,<br /><br />Thank you so, so much for answering this question. It's sort of what I suspected but nice to hear from your point of view.<br /><br />Note to Question Asker: you're spot-on regarding the often poorly written (and, thus, highly ironic) nature of children's book reviews. My favorite structural technique that I see over and over again in the journals: Plot, plot, plot, plot, plot, one

All true.<br /><br />Sad, though, when a YA has star reviews and neither Borders nor Barnes and Noble picks them up.<br /><br />How discouraging is that for the author? Bust their ass. Get Kirkus and Booklist star reviews and yet no one buys their book because they can't find it anywhere.<br /><br />Damn shame. And unfair. Blech.

Booksellers and librarians also know which review journals most closely mirror their own tastes and that of their customers and patrons. I've heard some of the top journals variously described as:<br /><br />highbrow<br />lowbrow<br />snarky<br />snobby<br />bland<br /><br />We all pretend reviews are completely objective, but they're just <I>not</I>. Every journal has its own culture, tone,

"I've been a little shocked by the low quality of reviews written by many teachers and librarians ... "<br /><br />I think these only show up in small, seldom-seen publications put out by educational districts, like ones I used to review for. There's no editing, and, sad to say, not all teachers or even librarians are entirely literate. <br /><br />That is not to say they don't know a good

What a wonderfully relieving little tidbit...<br /><br />My most gracious thanks.<br /><br />Bryan Russell

Whew. Good to know for the future.<br /><br />-Parker P

Hm. Not so sure I agree, EA. A friend of mine got <I>one</I> bad review - after receiving a few good ones - and her sales plummeted to nothing. The crappy part is her theme was about alcoholism and it seemed like that touched a nerve in the reviewer (who happened to be a librarian and probably in denial about other things). Her editor still believes in her, but a second book is not coming out any

This is a relief. The reviews of Ellen Datlow's POE anthology (disclaimer: I'm in it) have been so weird we don't know what to make of them. One reviewer will single out a handful of stories as the most exceptional. The next reviewer will pillory the same stories and hail others as the best. Me, I'm of the mind that this means Ellen did her job and the anthology has something to please everyone

Oooo, that is good news.

Yowza - this is really good to know. Its a relief to think any bad reviews won't sink the book. Its a hard enough battle getting them into the books shops. Thanks for posting this

If I got a nice review from Roger specifically for the pb/art biography I dream to sell...I think I would die and go to heaven. And then feel like I hit sainthood. Really. :)

I think the important distinction is less between 'good' reveiews and 'bad' reviews than between starred reviews and everything else.<br /><br />To know whether a review is good or bad, someone actually has to read it.<br /><br />A starred review gets read - even by someone who ignores the others - because it's only given to books that the review editors find especially noteworthy. Result:

Thanks EA!<br /><br />A bad review can feel so devastating, and lead to so much self doubt that you think your career is over. It's good to know that there is still hope after a bad review :)

Thank you, EA. This is an interesting, illuminating post.

L Violet:<br /><br />Booklist.

To add to the part about bad reviews--I was at a SCBWI conference and they had a panel of booksellers and librarians who talked about how they picked books to put in their store/library. The librarian (who worked at a large library) said that she had a big enough budget that she was able to buy all the books that got reviewed by a top reviewer (sorry can't remember which one or if it was more

As a reader, I've never read or paid attention to reviews. But I do look closely at blurbs. More recently, the blurbs on The Story of Edgar Sawtelle made me take it to the counter and buy it, versus buying two paperbacks for the same amount.<br /><br />Great post!

As a reader and a longtime subscriber to 4 different review publications, I've noticed (as has a friend, who subscribes to one of the same pubs) that once we're in the bookstore, we can often only remember that we've seen a book reviewed, not whether the review was positive or negative. Just the fact that I'm familiar with the title from the reviews will often make me pick up a book and start

Roger Sutton weighs in:<br />http://www.hbook.com/blog/2009/04/conspiracy-theory-of-reviewing.html

First: Star-struck attack: THE Gregory Frost?? OMG, I just started reading your work (Tain) and that makes me happy because there's more books to be read! Hooray!!<br /><br />Second: as the former editor of an all-volunteer book review journal let me say this: Book reviewing is *hard work* because a book review is not a book report.

Leslie,<br /><br />So true about the book reports and many of the journal reviews strike me as borderline book reports, as if (come and get me, librarians and teachers!) some of the reviewers are actually uncomfortable commenting critically about writing and art. It's the only reason why I can imagine there is often so little interesting or even outright analysis.<br /><br />This only seems to be

As an editor, when one of my books gets reviewed, my reponse is usually, 'We got a review?! Hot Damn!'. Any review is a good review. As one of the Anons has commented, people often remember seeing a book reviewed, but not what the reviewer said. Book buyers might be interested in a book when the reviewer is lukewarm, or even negative, if something about that book appeals to them. And before they

Brilliantly lucid and true. People always say, "But what about ...?" and then come up with an example which is only an example of the rule that every rule has an exception. There are always successful writers who work outside pigeon-holes, but they are successful for two reasons (apart from being great writers partly by following the rules of great writing even if they broke the rules of genre):

Thinking you can be a good children's author or illustrator without knowing your audience and the market is like thinking you can be a good archer without knowing where the targets are, let alone hitting them. Hitting the targets, or hitting the children? Because I've written a few books on spanking (child version and grownup version in a two-for-one package) I'd like to start querying...

Another reason the work of award-winners and best-sellers DOES NOT indicate that fitting in a genre doesn't matter -- something unusual and risky seems less risky to a publisher when it's done by somebody who already has a record of success. As opposed to someone like, say, me.

When a difficult-to-categorize book becomes successful, it's not just because the author has simply decided to push the envelope. It's because marketing departments, sales reps, booksellers and have made the extra effort necessary to get the market to accept something new—-to get the public to consider a book that doesn't look right for a certain age group, or has an unusually high word count,

Amen Wendy.So a publisher has this weird book.Maybe it is an absurdly oversized picture book, or a wordless graphic novel for adults, or a massively thick middle grade book with hardly any words. Maybe it is an art book made of wood and fur. Maybe it is a 35 pound scratch-and-sniff boar-brain cookbook.It is hard for the reps to get the buyers to stock this thing. WTF say the buyers - this won't

Well said. Book publishing is when all is said and done, a business and most people who work within it have to operate inside certain parameters. I worked for an indie bookseller for years and all the employees had such a love and appreciation for books that we put thought into how and where we displayed them. Many titles were personally hand-sold. It was a labor of love, however as a writer I

Not to mention unusual outside-the-box formats can also cost publishers more $$--to the tune of being cost prohibitive to create. [Which would be discovered in a PNL.] Publishers are not going to want to take that risk (ie potential financial loss), particularly on an author/illustrator without a track record. Publishing is art + business. Not just art + art. Everyone is welcome to create any

I'm going to start by outing myself as the source of the quote at the beginning of this post; it was excerpted from a comment I wrote on the previous topic. Thanks, EA, for the chance to explore this topic a little further.First of all, I'm not saying that publishing's not a business ; I've been making my living at it for a while now and this week of all weeks – as I sort through my 1099's – I'm

Wendy said (and literaricat amen'ed):Understand that the art of what THEY do is as important as your art.Yes. The marketing plan is indeed equal to the novel.Honest to god, people. Get some perspective.

Anonymous 3:15 PM says <BR/><BR/><I>Yes. The marketing plan is indeed equal to the novel.<BR/><BR/>Honest to god, people. Get some perspective.</I><BR/><BR/>I have the perspective of someone who has been a bookseller and buyer and worked in publishing for like, just a couple of decades. <BR/><BR/>OBVIOUSLY the books are the thing, without the books it is all pointless, we all love authors and

"I may or may not succeed on the scale that my successful and award-laden colleagues do... but without presuming that I might, I certainly won't."<br /><br />Well said!

All I can say is that these four artists are pushing me in some common and fearless direction...as are their great predecesors. <br /><br /><br />You can't ignore genius no matter what form it takes.

huh?

Litericat here seems to want to take a fair amount of credit for a book's success. What of a (good) book's failure? I agree that booksellers (and editors and designers and publicity people) all contribute a lot to a book's success. I just get tired of the behind-the-scenes people ducking for cover when good books don't succeed. Writers and illustrators do their best, then hand off their babies to

I'd like to point out that comparing your 'experimental' style to Kevin Henkes is ESPECIALLY crazy---<br /><br />Because, Kevin Henkes didn't start out "experimental." He made a name for himself by doing very traditional, 32-page picrure books about talking animals with pre-school-aged problems.<br /><br />The reason I might take a gander at an experimental Henkes in the bookstore is because my

To Literaticat,<br /><br />I agree with you. We live parttime in Dubai, and last year we had two British co-authors self publish a book (via the printing press here in Dubai). Since authors rarely come here, or do school visits, they were welcomed with open arms.<br /><br />The librarian at the school where my children attend is a sales dynamo. The book sales in one day at this one school were

Anonymous 8:24, I agree but good luck finding anyone to step up to give that post-mortem. Isn't there an old proverb about success having a thousand parents and failure being an orphan?<br /><br />Deirdre, you seem to want to insist that the right to innovate has to be earned. <br /><br />I disagree with this first as a matter of basic principle: creative work is in fact not the civil service.

Anon 8:24, ever hear of an editor being fired? I have. An editor IS his or her list, succeed or fail, and praise and blame are heaped out accordingly. <br /><br />Editors also don't recieve books from on high like an almighty football pass. They find, cultivate, and develop them. They are in the trenches with their authors and illustrators, which most working authors and illustrators appreciate.

I've had lots of jobs, but publishing is the only industry I've worked in where a large segment are belligerent about their right to remain ignorant of the basic workings of the business. Then they expect success to fall in their laps.<br /><br />I just don't get it.

Actually, yes, now that I think about it, I AM arguing that you need to earn the right to innovate.<br /><br />A traditional artist doesn't. If you're trying to sell a painting, you don't need to convince the world you're commercially viable. You just have to find ONE person who thinks that particular painting is worth buying.<br /><br />But a writer or an illustrator is more like an inventor

Anonymous 2:18 said: <I>Editors also don't recieve</I> [sic] <I>books from on high like an almighty football pass. They find, cultivate, and develop them. They are in the trenches with their authors and illustrators, which most working authors and illustrators appreciate.</I>Except when they&#39;re not. Like when they don&#39;t return emails for months at a time, don&#39;t deliver art notes until

<I>Litericat here seems to want to take a fair amount of credit for a book's success. What of a (good) book's failure? I agree that booksellers (and editors and designers and publicity people) all contribute a lot to a book's success. I just get tired of the behind-the-scenes people ducking for cover when good books don't succeed.</I>LOL. Jeex, I am not personally taking credit for anything -

Deidre, I don't disagree with your analogy between publishing and venture capital; I think that's a reasonably accurate basic comparison.<br /><br />Where I think you go wrong is in equating anything new to <I>"a program that simulates the spoilage of food in your refridgerator!"</I>There's no connection between novelty and uselessness. <br /><br />In fact, the venture capital business model

A scratch n sniff cookbook would be totally sweet. That's one cookbook I would so buy.

This summed up the argument for me.<br /><br /><I>But my job, when the music's on and the brushes are out, is to keep that stuff on the other side of the door. My job is not possible if I don't do this.</I>I get this.<br /><br />So in laymen's terms:<br /><br />Would you want your surgeon thinking about your HMO not paying him for the procedure while the doing surgery?<br /><br />Before the

YAY Heather! With edible pages!

Deirdre, misspelled your name at the top of my previous comment. Sorry! My apologies...

Would you want your surgeon thinking about your HMO not paying him for the procedure while the doing surgery?<br /><br />Before the actual surgery? Sure. After the surgery? Sure. During? I didn't think so.<br /><br />Now here is something I know about! I may not have written the best children's book but I have observed many a surgery and I am sorry to tell you that the discussion in the OR is

What I was amen'ing is not Wendy's use of the word "art" - which is not the word that I would have chosen - but rather the sentiment that WE, the many people behind the scenes who may not write the book but do sell the book, make the book and help get it on the shelves and into people's hands, are also important and have concerns and expectations that will ultimately have a lot to do with the

Programming note:<br /><br /><br />Check out Nathan Bransford's blog -- scroll down for Monday's post. He's put up fifty queries and his commentors play agent for a day, selecting which ones they'd ask for partials from. Many list reasons why. <br /><br />Very helpful to queriers, even though lots of them are for adult novels. Good feedback there.

I think you really have to be careful with a statement like this:<br />I understand that bookstores and libraries have to shelve populations, not individuals. But figuring out how to do that is their job, not mine.<br /><br />My husband is a singer/songwriter. He's the real deal. He had a record deal with a real record company and three CDs. He got great reviews for his music all the way up to

Amen, Wendy, amen!<br /><br />As long as a read, in whichever form it takes (but tastefully done), gets the reader involved with the beauty of words, the cadence of storyflow and helps the sellers and publishers bottom line, it&#39;s win-win.<br /><br />Barnum &amp; Bailey didn&#39;t get a household name for their mainstream circus, they got it for their freakish sideshow acts ;)<br /><br />Enjoy

"At this point, I wouldn't get any more attached to an individual editor than I would to an individual goldfish." <br /><br />Ouch. It hurts to have our professional longevity compared to a goldfish's.

My faith in the simple, almost elegant stupidity at all of levels of government is once more validated and retained.

Hmm, yeah, it's really unreasonable to require the end product to be tested just because the manufacturer shows you pieces of paper proving what's gone into it. Nobody would ever secretly add melamine, antifreeze or lead to their products to "improve" them....

I got an e-mail from our local kid's consignment shop regarding this. They are (understandably) worried about their business.The government going overboard and doing things in a completely bureaucratic, inefficient, unjustifiably expensive way? I don't believe it!

The ALA Washington Office has sent a letter to Congress and is preparing a press release and ways for librarians, publishers, and other concerned citizens to weigh in on this issue with their elected officials. I will post information here as I receive it, or you may check the ALA Web site periodically.--Diane Foote, Executive Director, ALSC

I vote we just teach kids not to lick the books. Problem solved. :)

It's all those 12-y-old girls reading Twilight, hugging those heavy books to their chests, sighing heavily and swooning.

Hmm, I don't lick books any more, but I have been known to stroke them occasionally.

Here's an update from yesterday with rules for resale shops:http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.htmlI assume libraries would be under the same umbrella-- they won't have to test the books, but will be liale if some kid gets lead poisoning from them....Not that they're likely to have lead-filled books anyway.... maybe some of the REALLY old ones with red covers, but I doubt those

There are A LOT of problems with CPSIA; handmade toys (think Etsy) are in danger of extinction thanks to this blanket law. Project Linus (http://www.projectlinus.org) would also have to shut down, unless they agreed to test every donated blanket, quilt, or afghan before giving it to a child in need.For more info, go to http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/Home to find out who to contact your

A CPSC spokesperson went on the record saying Project Linus specifically would not be affected, so I'm guessing they don't consider donations as "introducing into the stream of commerce." The problem is with selling, not with giving (unless you're giving away as part of a sale, like a freebie or promotional item).So while I haven't read CPSC's General Counsel opinion on books that they sent to

Turns out libraries are not safe from CPSIA after all: http://www.wo.ala.org/districtdispatch/?p=1322*sigh*...

Things like this drive me crazy!To heck with books, do these "authorities" know every house built before 1960 have lead pipes going into homes, supplying our DRINKING water? Do they tell the population that standing on the road waiting for a bus is more toxic then second hand smoke?Of course not.

oh crap!

eek.

(though, on second thought, it does lessen the sting of recent rejections... sort of...)

Is it too late to put my fingers in my ears and run away singing LA LA LA LA LA LA LA very loudly?It is?Oh darn.The word verification for my comment is saying it all: E P H E A K !!

Not good...

Temporary like several months, or temporary like "until Jan 1?"How much of a backlog do they currently have?Would they REALLY turn down the next Harry Potter/Twilight/Lemony Snickett if it came along?I'm not worrying yet. (OK-- I admit it, I'm not a worrier by nature... And hey, if all the publishers stop buying books that means I can ignore the hard work of revising and just write for my own

BTW EA -- When are you going to tear apart our synopses?

Hmmm...

As in they aren't buying midlist books or they aren't buying huge, high concept books that they'd pay six figure advances to?There's a big difference between the two as far as money going out...Also, does this mean editors there will lose their jobs? Hard to go to work if there is no work. Not saying anyone has the answers to these questions but it seems a rather reactionary thing (for the

If you read the whole story, ol' Mr. B. coyly says that the "right project" will go to the review board. WTF? So what say you, EA? If I have a requested revision there (and it's been there a while), should I pull it and go elsewhere? I hate to be rude when an editor's put time into comments but, geesh, doesn't sound promising ...http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6617241.html?desc=topstory

I love the "the directive was given verbally" part. As in, what?"Put. The. Manuscript. Down. Step away from the picture book ..."

The article is only referring to acquisitions, which means that there is still plenty of work for editorial, production, design, &c. And maybe this means time to go through the slush. Still, yeck.Apparently, Blogger agrees with this post. Word Verification: ammen.

It's a scary time we're living in.

Maybe we should run for the hills or better yet, run for the bookstore and buy books for Black Friday!!!If they sell so many books, they'll have to make more ;-)

CRAP!

A friend contacted her editor who said that she had not received any notification of this edict and that she was still acquiring children's books. So, maybe this only applies to the adult book division of that publisher? We should see a clarification soon, I imagine.-wendie old

Tailing Wendy O's comment: IS this for the adult Harcourt or the childrens division?It would make a huge difference to those who are reading this kidlit site to know for sure. Seems as if the announcement failed to mention it.

Poop. I have an ongoing relationship with one of their editors who keeps asking me to send her stuff. I was gearing up to send her the novel I'm nearly finished. *SIGH*

Ok everyone! It's time to pull out your Hitchhiker's Guide, gaze at the soothing cover, and remember "Don't Panic!."A bubble just burst. Big bubbles are followed by big panics. But if you keep your head on straight and remember to breathe, you should weather it fine.Remember, people (and firms) panic not because the know something, but because they're uncertain. So it's no use hopping on the

I still think this is the beginning of the changeover to POD for the big publishing houses. Why waste money on returns if budgets are tight? I'd like more money for publicity and royalties personally.Change isn't always bad. It just is.And I, too, heard this was the adult division and not the children's.

Well, Jane Yolen speaketh over at Roger Sutton's blog and she says that it's grown-up division only that's affected ...

From one of the SCBWI-LA RA's:A friend of mine spoke to a Houghton/Harcourt editor, and apparently the "no new acquisitions" policy did NOT apply to the children's arm of HM. The boycott in the adult arm is expected to be lifted after the first of the year. So relax and have a wonderful Thanksgiving - being surrounded by so many wonderful people, we have a lot to be grateful for.

Another item of note. From a bookseller friend of mine:Scholastic has downsized its field sales force which is significant, because the books can't get from the catalog to the shelves without someone helping the buyers understand the list. Also, the number of children's catalogs I usually review from MacMillan (meaning the number of imprints doing catalogs) was reduced by about half for the

Every now and then I stir up this can of worms:Why hasn't a solo African-American artist ever won a Caldecott GOLD medal?

Wow! That website of Brian Lies...I was pretty happy with mine, but wow!

On the question about the economy & children's publishing - do you think it might make publishers more reluctant to take on first time authors?

So, the Caldecott thing interested me, so I did some math - here's the percentages:From 1980-2008, 22 solo men (@76%), 6 solo women (@21%), and one male/female team (@3.5%), have won.(and, anecdotally, 3 of 6 solo women who won were both author and illustrator).From 1960-1979, 11 solo men (55%), 7 solo women (35%), and 2 m/f teams (10%) won.From 1938-1959, 13 solo men (@59%), 6 solo women (@28%)

Bravo on your initial comment about editing and proofreading. Editing is a skill that translates to many subjects; topic knowledge is the responsibility of the author, unless you're dealing with a developmental edit. As a proofreader/copyeditor/indexer, I feel good if I catch a factual mistake in a nonfiction tome (the nyah-nyah effect), but that's not what publishers are paying me for . . .

what kind of moisturizer cream should i get for my peeling, drying skin?Ugh, I hate winter and I hate how winer ruins my poor delicate brown skin.

Sarah Miller-- Your Question SHOULD be:"Why hasn't Kadir Nelson won the Caldecott gold yet??"Because, seriously, someone gave us "Please Puppy Please," and his fabulous illustrations are the ONLY reason that dud of a story hasn't ended up in the trashcan.Or, even more importantly, "Does Kadir Nelson make at least as much for his work as Spike Lee does for his crummy rhymes?"If I ever have a

I LOVE Brian's website!!Thanks for this very informative post!

Dierdre: Actually, that kind of is my question. I was oblivious to this state of affairs until Nelson's illustrations in MOSES took a silver medal instead of gold. I've been poking at this issue from time to time ever since and haven't hit on a really good explanation yet.

Maybe people don't really notice because they all assume Ezra Jack Keats was black?(I assumed he was for YEARS...)

Actually, is "We Are the Ship" eligible for a Caldecott medal this year? I haven't seen it yet, but it seems to be racking up awards, and the cover is gorgeous!

I believe so. It's got a jillion starred reviews, so maybe...

No, Ezra is not black and Gorey is not English.

But Gorey WAS a trekkie!http://shaenon.livejournal.com/48834.html?style=mine#cutid1

Wow, I'm surprised by the answer to the imprint question. I always heard that this is a major no-no and avoided doing it.So, what you're saying is if my editor at Simon & Schuster rejects my middle grade, I can send it to Atheneum after?Is there any etiquette around this? If it gets accepted at Atheneum, do I give my editor at S&S the heads-up that I just sold to another part of the house? Thanks!

I'll be interested to see if the recent article by Anita Silvey in School Library Journal about how recent Newbery picks lack true kid appeal, despite their literary merits, is reflected in any way in this year's winners. She made some really good, provocative points.After reading Meg Cabot's recent Ally Finkle series, I was totally bowled over by her use of voice. She completely nails what it is

Me again, from above. I realized it might be nice if I included the link to the Silvey article for those who hadn't seen it.http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6600688.html

Whoops, it's getting weirdly cut off. Try #2:http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6600688.html

About the Caldecotts - The last twenty years, one-third by women and one-third involving guys named David.Gotta wonder about that.

Men and awards - Am I EVeR glad somebody else has made a call on this! I was looking over the illustrators in a current 'best of'exhibition - almost ALL men. And my favourites... pretty much all male author/illustrators... I was somewhat horrified when I realized that.My theory (I am an A/I - new in '09)... men generally are much more able to run with a style that may be a little more edgy, a

about how recent Newbery picks lack true kid appeal, despite their literary merits,Anon, I'm the only one in my house reading the Newbery books. I had to bribe my 8 year old to read Hatchet. He ended up liking it, but getting him started was soooo hard. Same with his older brother.They are both pouring through Goosebumps, the same way they did Junie B. and Captain Underpants.Not sure where I'm

"So, what you're saying is if my editor at Simon & Schuster rejects my middle grade, I can send it to Atheneum after?"Ed Anon is right, you can totally publish with more than one imprint. But DO NOT query more than one imprint within a larger house, esp not at the same time. This is a huge no-no. Most of the time, if an author is pubbed by two different imprints of the same house, there's some

Why do men get more Caldecotts?Peggy, good thoughts on why all the guys. I agree with you and offer up some other possible reasons. In general, if a man persues children's book illustration as a career (so "girly" in a way, compared to say ditch digging or being a broker on Wall Street), he may very well take the JOB more seriously (though yes, still having fun with his art and a freedom with it

Sorry, can't give up the cheesy bookmarks. True, they do not translate into book sales, but the kids love them...Thanks for the answer on the economy.

"It's a world of laughter, a world of tears, it's a world of hopes and a world of fears..."(I will now be humming the Small World song all day.) I love people who think no one knows. Like those people who post stupid comments about others on Facebook or Myspace and then act surprised when the person finds out. In the age of Internet, fax, email and talkative children's editors, I wouldn't

Is it lack of ethics, lack of maturity or a very different value system that doesn't mesh well with the children's publishing world?Could be a bit of all three and then perhaps others. Why do something you are not proud to stand up say I did this?I used to live like that and it was not fun and not easy remembering who knew what, what I said or did to who, who could know X but not Y and how many

For the sake of being fair...is it possible that the author in question who is behaving unethically just doesn't know any better?I agree that people should behave professionally and word does get around in small industries such as publishing, but I'd feel very sorry for the author if she had no clue what she was doing was considered unethical and is just taking her agent's advice at face

Can you tell us what the writer and agent did? It would be so helpful to know!

You leave us with the juicy story and you don't say what the author/agent did?Come on, EA! We're dying...(but whatever it was I blame the agent, the agent more than likely had been around the block, the writer somtimes doesn't know any better than to follow an agent's advice)

My husband has a saying (he's such an old man most of the time) that I really like: There is no such thing as a secret.There really isn't. It's just a matter of time...

"And then you hear (from a different reliable source) about the very same author and how her agent got her to do something that was sneaky and unethical and no two ways about it."Um. Isn't this the agent's fault, then, unless it's, like, egregiously unethical. I'm just thinking that all the agents' and editors' blogs always say that authors should always follow instructions, lest they be

What the heck did she do? How inconsiderate and sneaky of you to draw us in and then leave us hanging. There's no two ways about it. I like to think well of people, so I'll assume it was a momentary lapse, and you'll learn better behavior soon....

The book trade runs like no other industry on earth, and is often very counter-intuitive: a lot of practices which are commonplace elsewhere don't work or are frowned upon in publishing circles. For every new author so meek and anxious not to make trouble that they don't dare ask what their agent thinks of the new novel after he's had it six months, or whether it's right that their book doesn't

I know you can't tell us the specifics of this situation, but I'd love to see a list of examples of unethical behavior by agents and authors. I think a lot of us authors have no idea what might be considered unethical, and some of the "rules" seem slanted against writers. For example, any time a writer gets on Verla Kay's board and says "Can I look for a new agent before breaking with my current

That's a good point, NW. There's plenty of things that agents do that are unethical, like, for instance, never responding to requested material, or, like my first agent, not keeping her word. I'd love to get a take on this situation to see what is deemed as "unethical" in the publishing world.

EA wrote: something fundamental about the children's book industry: word gets around.I'd be more impressed by this vigorous, community-based enforcement of behavioral standards if I thought, even for one moment, that it cut both ways.Alas, I suspect that all these eager gossipers are not nearly as quick to jump on failures closer to home.The "the relatively few people who don’t think they have to

You've got a point, Working Illustrator, but it truly can cut both ways if authors and illustrators would talk more freely to each other. I absolutely think editors should be as much at the mercy of the reputation they acquire as anyone else. And I'm a big fan of community--especially for lonesome occupations like writing/illustrating.

EA, I'm sure you're sincere, but the power dynamic doesn't work that way. If editors or agents talk to each other about an author who behaves in a way they don't like, the author gets a bad reputation and no one will work with him. If an author talks about editors or agents who behave in a way he doesn't like, the author gets a bad reputation and no one will work with him. That's how word gets

I HOPE YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ME?!?!!?! :-P lol just kidding. I hate assholes, no matter what they do or what kind of work they do.

While the agent may be at fault for starting the ball rolling, that hardly lets the author off the hook (per someone's comment). I have a fabulous agent and I will consider EVERYTHING he suggests, but if he asked me to do something unethical (which he never would), I'd have no trouble saying, "See ya later." My first experience with how small a world it is was when I queried an agent and said, "

As much as I appreciate your hosting of this forum, EA, there isn't any way it can truly cut both ways, for all the reasons NW lists above. I'm all for community but at its best it's only going to improve things at the margins. Very, very few of us are ever going to be in a position to withhold something from a potential publisher for purely personal reasons. The situation we find ourselves in

I have to say I compeletly agree with both of NW's posts:I'M SOMEONE who has experienced having a terrible agent such as NW has explained. Actually, exactly as NW has explained. Most writers don't talk about their bad agent experiences, however, because they fear being shunned by other agents/editors in the business. Editors and agents hold virtually all the cards for unpublished writers -- and

Anonymous wrote: "Most writers don't talk about their bad agent experiences, however, because they fear being shunned by other agents/editors in the business."Or maybe those of us who don't talk about our horrible agent experience keep it to ourselves because we're trying to only put good things out into the world. If someone asked me specifically about my "bad agent", I would have to say that

Good post today. Spouting off about an editor or agent (whether verbally or online) is just shooting yourself in the foot. It's like the old saying that unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. Giving a quiet private warning when directly asked is one thing (and I've certainly done it), but trashing someone is something else. It pays in so many ways to take the

I don't blame the people who don't broadcast their bad experiences with editors and agents, because they have nothing to gain (it's too late for them) and everything to lose. Even when friends or acquaintances ask you directly, it's tricky. Suppose you tell someone the truth and then they go ahead and sign anyway? (It's happened to me.) It's like warning someone off a potential date and then

If I am asked by an illustrator about "such and such" a publisher, I will tell them the truth. Certainly I could not live with myself if this illustrator took a project with a publisher I know does not pay or whatever and I didn't warn them first.What is funny about "It's a Small World After All" is that some publishers don't realize this too. Authors and Illustrators do talk to each other and

Anon 10:20 writes: "...What I have done is try to blog about the ways to find a good agent and reiterated other agents/editors/writer's advice regarding asking lots of questions and not jumping into things. It seems ultimately more important and more helpful than "telling the truth" to other writers..."I'm sorry, but this is riduculous. No one is suggesting that you get on the internet and commit

Hi, I'm apsu.. nice blog..minikperi

I'm in a business as far away from book publishing as one can get (natural gas gathering and processing) but the principle you are talking about is universal. Many industries are very small worlds and I've seen many people make big ethical blunders and then get frozen out of the industry when word got around about their secret.Integrity is very important in any field.

wery nice thank you aluminyum treylertreyler

quite frankly, if I had an awful agent, I would keep my mouth shut and quietly go find another one who is willing to rep me and help me become a published writer. then I'd politely tell the 1st agent that it ain't working out between us. announcing to the whole world that a certain agent sucks dick is not going to improve matters-it will only make you look like a whiney, ungrateful, insecure

I always tell people about the website Preditors and Editors when they are looking for agents, editors, or what have you. http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/pubagent.htmThis is a great place to find out if an agent is disreputable. And reporting disreputable agents or editors to the people here is completely anonymous.However, that said, I would *also* be interested in the *types* of disreputable

From a comment: An agent is the writer's advisor and often a new writer's guide to the world of publishing. If the agent is unethical, the writer may not realize that.While I agree one hundred percent that an agent is and adviser, they are not your mother. You find out what's ethical by going on gut feeling and learning about the business from blogs, other writers, the internet, books, etc. You

"...a lot of people who read this blog are relative newcomers to the world of publishing."I'm one of those. I'm a writer who hasn't been published yet, and I'm very content with that position, but also looking ahead to the next steps. And this post was mystifying because, yes, I wish I knew what this "unethical action" was. Every industry has its own idea of ethics, appropriateness, and so on;

I can't say what it was that happened in a forum like this. If I know you well, I'll tell you.I do understand what some of you mean about different industries playing by different rules. The first thing the author did wrong was in one of those gray areas, and so I'm less likely to condemn her for that.But the second thing was simply unethical. If you don't know what things are unethical in any

If you don't know what things are unethical in any terms and in any industry, go check with your mother because clearly you weren't paying attention.What a terribly naive point of view you have.My mother was a sociopath who never taught me anything but how to hate myself and demean others - so there was nothing to pay attention to. This belief that all mothers are nurturing saints is stupid

This belief that all mothers are nurturing saints is stupid beyond stupid.No, it was rhetoric. I know not all mothers are good mothers.Ok, I see what you're saying. And perhaps this does make me naive, but I think there's a line to be drawn between 'commonly accepted practices' and 'ethics'. Stealing, lying, hurting others... even if these are commonly accepted practices in your chosen

Every editor has been burned by an author or an agent at some point in her career, but as one of the comments pointed out, the balance of power often rests with the editor. (I'll bet EA thinks twice before working with that author or agent again!) My favorite authors to work with are not the ones who sell the most books, but the ones I like the most. I'll commit to a in-need-of-serious-revision

OK um...it shouldn't be news to people that you need to be nice to get along in this world. No matter what industry. Big industry or small, word gets around.(I'm talking nice as in polite, treat people the way you'd like to be treated etc. Not nice as in gullible, or the very old definition of mildly retarded.)

It's difficult to know, as a newbie, how things work in publishing (hence the title of my blog which Emma Darwin so kindly referred to upstream). Nevertheless, it's pretty easy to know if something that you're doing is unethical out there in the real world--and therefore, whether it's likely to also be unethical within publishing.I'd advise everyone to be honest and open about what they do when

This reminds me of a question I saw recently from an agented writer.The agent loved the book, had offered suggestions for revising and was working on the proposal when the author received a reply from Major Agency, a reply to a long-ago query. Major Agency requested a partial. The writer asked whether to stick with the current agent or to cancel the contract and send the partial to Major Agency.I

My first advice to everyone, especially to myself and my kid:1) Be honest. It's easier. Mark Twain said that a liar needed to have an extremely good memory. Do you want to work that hard?2) Be polite. It doesn't matter what the person's position or situation is currently, they are a human being and deserving of respect. 2a) When someone does something bad (in your eyes), and you have need to

I have to say, I love your post. It would be nice to know what it is the agent and/or author did, but in a way, not knowing is much more interesting. That is the same technique Grisham used to keep us turning pages in THE PELICAN BRIEF. I actually awoke in the middle of tbe night last night and was unable to get to sleep for wondering. I have not felt this way since Renee Zellwegger divorced her

Hi, EA, love the blog.I'm also an unpublished writer, learning the industry, and by the time I got to the end of the comments to this post, my mouth was dry, palms sweating, nausea swelling ... What am I getting myself into?A lot of the discussion about how you're supposed to have the internal compass that lets you know when you're veering into the realm of clearly unethincal behavior reminds

I'm hypothetically laughing my hypothetical ass off right now.

It's good that the OP actually knows the book needs work, though. When I was green I would've sent that right out to a million agents, I didn't know any better, none of us do at first. Original Poster -- what you've desribed is a rough draft. After you get that first draft out of you with blood sweat and tears, then you roll up your sleeves and do the real work -- rewriting. That's where you FIX

I get people at cocktail parties, at the store, in the dentist chair and all sorts of other pplaces pitching ideas for children's books to me. Invariably, the offer is the same: "I'll give you the idea and you can write it. Then we can split the profits."I smile and nod while they get their pitch out. Then, I politely tell them that my hard drive is filled with enough of my own ideas that I won't

I have an idea of the people I want my children to grow up to be, now can someone else raise them?

Let me clarify, as the original poster. I wrote a book, totaling somwhere near 200-250 pages. There is a full story line, characters, plot, etc. So, it's not just an "idea" or hypothetical, as you suggest. The problem, as I apparantly failed to articulate properly in my example, is like home building. You have framers, finishers, plumbers, electricians, and I suppose, general handymen. I can

Most writers come about that "professional touch" by re-writing and re-writing and re-writing -- four, five, six drafts. They read tons of craft books that teach less-experienced writers how to do this.If you want a published writer to go over your work without completing the above steps, either join a high-level critique group or be prepared to fork over big bucks for a professional editor.

Will do, thanks "Anonymous."

Building a house does require framers and electricians and plumbers and all sorts of other subcontractors. There's the hot mop guy and the Finish Contractor. But, there are no subcontractors in writing. Even a good critique group or trusted readers are simply people you might stand in front of your house and say, "what do you think?" You wouldn't expect them to pick up a hammer. The agent

Perhaps a critique, and perhaps some help. I guess the feedback I have gotten thus far from family/friends and a good friend of mine in L.A. who reads movie scripts for a living, is that while the overall story is a good one, the concept is a good one, etc., that my character development, and or overall "story telling" ability could use some work. I am not a professional writer. Never claimed

"I am not a professional writer. Never claimed to be." Do you want to be one? It's hard to tell how much heart you have for this. Because, if you want to improve your story, you can do it yourself, but it's not easy. It takes work. I get the feel that you don't want to do the work.I saw this quote on another blog yesterday - Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will

I guess motivation is the key question here. Do you want to be published? Because if you want publication, then you need to treat writing a book as though it were a job. A job where you need to figure out all the parts yourself and do them well. Even if it takes you a long time to learn how.You can take classes and workshops. But the best teacher of writing is actually writing. And reading

We were having the same thoughts, Anonymous!

ajree -- I get what you are asking now. You might want to take up the previous advice and join a critique group. It doesn't take a professional author, sometimes, to be able to point out flaws. It sounds like you are wanting something more formal -- since you mentioned your friend makes a living reading screenplays in L.A. I'm a screenwriter too, and there are "coverage" programs, from the Austin

Thanks Anonymous, I think we are on the same page now. It is not that my heart is not in it, In fact, I do have writing experience in other areas. I have published articles in the past in scholarly journals related to my employment discipline. This however, was my first crack at writing a fictional work. I suppose the help I am seeking is the guidance of someone with experience in the area.

Ajree, you should look into the UCLA Extension Writer's Program. The classes can be somewhat expensive, but they are all taught by actual published authors and can be done online. I found the critiques given by my classmates and the teacher to be quite helpful in finding the problems in my own work.In the end, you probably need to write another draft or two, or perhaps consider putting it aside

Thanks everyone...At least my question spurned a lively debate...

As a "John Q Public" who's always dreamed of being a "Best-selling Author," I find your blog entertaining and insightful, if not just a little TOO MUCH reality!Still, keep at it, and THANKS!Posted by: Frantically Dreaming of Making A Living Writing

If I had a pound (or $2.40) for every time someone's offered me an idea, in return for half the royalties... Well, I wouldn't be rich, but I'd have sunk a few nice bottles of wine. But since this poster seems actually to have got quite a lot of words down on paper, there's something for them to work on and learn from. If they want to. As a commenter said above, motivation is all."I'd skip trying

Get in line, dude.

I echo a lot of what's been said here. Learning to be an author takes time and effort and sometimes a bit of money (classes, retreats, workshops).If you just want to see your words in book form, there's Lulu. It's a service that you pay for and they give you a bound copy of your book. Then you can have it on your bookshelf or your coffee table and be done with it.There are a lot of people out

Again, thanks everyone, at the very least, all of your suggestions have pointed me in a direction I was unaware of previously. I will look into a lot of your ideas...I did spend the time to copyright it as well, I guess as a vanity thing, but if anyone wants to take a read, let me know...Hahaha!

It depends upon (1) what the problems with the book are, and (2) what your level of skill is, and (3) whether you actually desire to become a professional writer.If you want to become a pro at fiction writing, then you need to buckle down and learn the craft first, then rework your novel yourself. (Perhaps with input from a crit group, then later participation by an agent or editor.)If you don't

Thanks Twill, et. al., I really appreciate the help....www.jokingright.blogspot.com