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More big news from Amazon this week as the Kindle is going global. Except, sadly, to Canada. The Kindle's lack of presence in Canada presents me with a severe challenge, as I don't know whether to make a joke about "aboat," hockey, Quebecois separatists, eh?, or Celine Dion. Oh Canada, must you have so many objects of hilarity?
In his ongoing effort to give you all of the information you need to know about everything that is important, Eric at Pimp My Novel has a great post on all you need to know about comp titles. Also co-op.
The FTC made headlines for the first time in.... basically ever, as they announced a crackdown on the great scourge sweeping the nation: blogs blogging about stuff they got for free. This has opened up a can of worms so big it could swallow Idaho, and Ron Hogan in particular has written a great series of posts about what it means and what the ruling leaves unanswered. Since this doesn't affect journalists and talking heads on TV, who will still be free to say whatever they want no matter who is giving them free stuff, one has to wonder why the FTC decided to single out bloggers.
Meanwhile, this week's End of Publishing As We Know It article is brought to you by the New York Times, which reports that very-good-but-not-extraordinary sales of some recent big books have the industry wringing hands. Agent Jane Dystel is not impressed.
Meanwhile, The Rejectionist has a guest blogger with some words on the industry that have most definitely not been minced. Said poster worries about what e-books will do to the business, does not care too much for a certain fake memoirist, and perhaps most importantly, wonders why the industry is busy overpaying a handful of authors instead of building a sustainable business.
And finally, in important agent advice news, Kristin Nelson reminds us that even when they end up looking really smart, agents are not seers.
Have a great weekend!
65 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 10/12/2009
I personally say "ow" every time I say "about". Despite the lies promulgated in Canadian Bacon! That was the worst documentary ever.
On a serious note, plastic production and disposal is a serious ecological problem too. (Though, for what it's worth, I think it's quite possible that Kindles are ecologically superior in the end tally. But the whole damned if you do and damned if you don't is sort of sad)
eWaste is why I still have my original Game Boy. Although if the world went crazy Day After Tomorrow style, I guess I couldn't burn my ebook reader to keep warm. So mass market paperbacks, here I come!
I'm boat free and boot free... it's all about the ow.
Actually, as it happens, whenever I've travelled out of the country people have always, and invariably, mistaken my Southern Ontario accent for Californian. Though whether my accent was a Sacramento Kings fan I don't know.
I’d say you have a distinctive voice. I keep meaning to mention this – Did you know that Rachelle Gardner wrote an entire blog about a statement you had made on Nathan’s blog? Check out her blog for September 29, 2009>. You’ll love it!
Nathan, I understood it to mean journalist were already being paid by the newspaper and hence the reader would understand they were receiving some compensation for their musings. That, and it might have been pick on bloggers week.
I've had my Sony 505 for about four months. Yes, I do love it, and I would recommend it. All of the features are good except for the price (eek!) and the odd pdf file that comes up kind of screwy, but I still give it two thumbs up. And, I have bought WAY more books since going digital. I love being able to buy a new book at 2 a.m.
Great recap of the week's publishing news as usual, Nathan. Over at my blog, http://annerallen.blogspot.com, the I Heart Nathan Bransford Club is trying to decide what to call blog followers. Jan Markley also mentioned in her funny blogpost that "followers" sounds way to Evita-ish. What about calling your blog peeps "Bleeps"?
I'm Canadian and am *about* to blow this about thing WIDE open. My father tells me we can attribute the tightness of the way we say house, about, and out on the French. Which makes us sophisticated rather than backwoods, no? (It's what I tell myself.)
Nathan, it's not nice to diss your neighbors across the border.
There are some very nice benefits to being north of the 49th parallel, but that's our secret.
Next time, think about Neil Young, Wayne Gretzsky, Diana Krall, & Dr. David Suzuki. Quite a different set if you pick the best, not the most humourous.
Where is the Hills recap and how the evil Kristin has glommed onto Justin Bobby?
Smooth talker Spencer rented a house without his wife's knowledge and kicked a 4 yr. old neighbor cutie out on his keds and basically said "see you never!"
You've got to love that show because you just can't make this stuff up.
Marilyn, that was really cool of you to link that. Thanks. But then, you're very cool in general. :)
I did see that post - I felt flattered (and relieved) that Rachelle thought it was funny. But then, Rachelle is also a very cool person. I admired what she said in that post alot. :)
I'm not giving up my advocate's voice. Not at all. I just want to advocate in a way that isn't hurtful and targeting. I feel very sorry about that part of it.
Knock Canada all you want, it is still really big, and that's what counts. Also, they make good candy. Though I can't see why there wouldn't be Kindle in Canada.
So Nathan, in order to make up for the huge disappointment of not being Kindled up here in the Great White North, you should declare this Canada month and only accept queries from the Kindle-free folks and offer them all deals so we can publish books for our countrymen. How's that for a captive market?
I think most people remember you by your humor. Your humor is hilarious. You really gotta write that book. Maybe take individual topics like comedians do, make them chapters, and - voila! - humor book that everyone can enjoy. :)
Your encouragement means alot. Really, truly. Thanks. :)
I have the concept for the book, and some of the characters. I write it in my head sometimes. Maybe during winter break, I'll knuckle down. :)
I'm happy to hear that your work is almost ready to go! You work hso hard. I admire that. And I appreciate your comments here alot. :)
Oh. Since we're in chat mode, I do want to say something very important to say to Nathan. Nathan, you mentioned in your Twitter that you like In N Out Burger. Guess what I learned at Grad school today? Did you know that In N Out has a special, secret menu? Here's a link to SOME of them: http://www.in-n-out.com/secretmenu.asp. But not all! There's also a neopolitan shake (all the flavors combined), chili fries. Cheese fries. And the all important chili/cheese fries. Very exciting.
I'm a long time reader first type poster kind of deal, I love your weekly updates. Through following links from places you linked I found out about this iStorybook application for the iphone about picture books for kids.
I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on the possibilities of Kindle or other publishing houses getting the idea of making e-readers for kids in the near future? I've got a lot of nieces and nephews who would probably love something like that. (I'm not sure if you do Q and A here but I didn't think it was important enough of a question to e-mail.)
e-books for the DS? Awesome. Now there's a chance that my nephews will read a book for (gasp!) fun!!!
Julie said, on 10/10/2009 9:46:00 AM
"Aboat?" Maybe in Newfoundland. Although we Canadians get the shaft more often than not, eventually the Kindle will come. Good things to those who wait and all that. Come to Canada and see eh?
Anonymous said, on 10/10/2009 10:01:00 AM
I may have the wrong information, but I heard that the whole blogging rules thing came up/ went down after the Pittsburgh protesters were being shepherded away by bloggers/social networkers/twitterers from the police and other blockades recently. Thus- the applause for all things facebook in helping protesters in Iran became a nono in Pittsburgh and the gov was going to tie new rules and regulations onto the Internet fastened onto an "advertising concern." Police those bloggers and social net-workers.
("Oh dear," she said, running away with her constitution twittering between her fingers.)
Anybody have more accurate or other info than this?
(word verification: undideb as in undi-deb or undi de bed)
Ink, while that would be out of my budget, I will happily take you on a pub crawl, should you make it down south to California...
word verification: butsorri (!)
Anonymous said, on 10/10/2009 2:12:00 PM
The anonymous guest writer at The Rejectionist has a fantastic sense of humor. Here’s an equally humorous and worrisome article on Forbes, How Billionaires Control Our Lives. And here’s the recent Forbes List of the 400 Richest Americans. It includes quite a few people running the publishing industry. Many of them individually own quite a few media corporations. Some have lost a couple million dollars, but are still worth billions of dollars. I don’t think any of them are interns or publishing assistants. I also don’t think that so many publishing jobs needed to be cut to preserve the large numbers of billions of dollars at the top. Just sayin’.
This isn't the first time a Kings player has had a bizarre injury. One of their players had to miss time in 1991 because of tendinitis due to playing Nintendo too much.
I have contest ideas, and no twitter. You can delete if you don't want them on this thread. You never have to credit me for ideas, btw, now or in the future, not attached. Just flattered if you use one.
Okay, here are some contest ideas:
* Prompts (a sentence, photo, a topic.)
* A fun type of prompt is where you list several words, and people need to make a paragraph out of it.
* Genre wars (dueling paragraphs, humor vs. tragedy; literary vs. commercial; YA vs. Adult. Pick the top of each, and then pick the top of the two. Does that make sense?)
* Group story; top contribution(s) win. That's a fun one.
* Debate a topic: most compelling argument(s) win.
* Ideas: For example: most useful idea to help the publishing industry wins. I like this one. :)
* Pitches. People might be nervous about this one b/c of theft, but probably shouldn't be.
* Just do the first paragraph or dialogue one again. Those were fun.
* Or. Last paragraph contest. Or genre paragraphs - most inspirational, sad, funny, etc. Or descriptive paragraph.
Saw your tweet for contest ideas. I had one recently that drew almost 100 entries. Contestants had to leave in comments book title suggestions (with genre) to go with photographs posted. Great fun!
It's pronounced "aboot" in some parts of the country. In my day job as a tech trainer, I've had to face many an American audience. They have no problem with my "about," but find my "route" ("root") hilarious. I don't find Quebecois separatists normally funny, but Celine Dion is a punch line all by herself. Hockey is religion, so be careful what you say. As for objects of hilarity, we've also given the world Howie Mandell, so that pretty much balances things.
First up, for those who are in the San Francisco Bay Area and who also happen to write suspense or thrillers or related materials, I will be meeting with the SF Sisters in Crime tomorrow at noon out in the Sunset. Dana promises to follow with details in the comments section, so if you want details: Dana has them.
Also, if I don't turn up to blog on Monday, well, my obituary will probably read that I should have known better than to agree to meet with a group that calls themselves Sisters in Crime.
In friend-of-the-blog news, Stuart Neville aka Conduit is celebrating the release of the terrifically-reviewed THE GHOSTS OF BELFAST (congrats, Stuart!) with a very cool Twitter contest. If you fancy that you could write a scary story in 124 characters: you too could be a winner.
You may have heard about the Twitter books, but did you hear that a man's Facebook status was given a book deal? The Onion, as always, is there with the crucial details. (via Erin Clifford)
In book piracy news, as a reminder of how book piracy has been with us forever, GalleyCat has an awesome post about how angry Charles Dickens was about rampant piracy of his books in the US. And the post has actual video footage!! Or old episodes of Bonanza. Either way.
If you're not reading anonymous agency assistant The Rejectionist, well, make ye haste, people. Make ye haste. R has a post that is both hilarious and helpful about the many book topics that are not in fact inherently interesting. In other words: yes, you can write a book about these topics. But you're going to have to work at it.
And finally, this week..... in rice harvest:
Photo by my dad.
Have a great weekend!
25 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 10/4/2009
Great links for my weekend perusal. Thanks Nathan. I think that the Rejectionist is a riot.
Carpy said, on 10/2/2009 6:09:00 PM
Sisters in Crime, RWA, WOW I want to move to the Bay area! Hey, I look forward to This..... weekinpublishing every Friday. I also love your photos. Your dad's picture looks a lot like he might be in Nebraska, but I haven't seen many rice fields around here. A good weekend to you all!
I believe that assistants are learning a whole lot. But that's early in the process. Integrating that information, putting it together to formulate a cohesive whole, knowing what's important and what's not important - these are all part of the learning process that take years in any field.
Honestly - if you had started a blog your first years in the field, should anyone really have listened to you? I would bet it would be hit and miss. Some things: yes. Some things: no!!! Other than posts about your experience, I mean.
I'd have less of a problem with this if there wasn't such instant power dynamic.
But I am very comfortable with agreeing to disagree, Nathan. I understand why you linked this, and I think she's lucky to have a support in you. I also think she's a writer, and industry professional, with great potential.
Anonymous said, on 10/2/2009 6:24:00 PM
Speaking of The Rejectionist, I noticed there's a link from that blog to another intern's blog. The other intern has started a business: $50 to review query letters, $100 to review and comment on a manuscript, etc. Good idea for writers to get feedback that way?
Nathan, this is why I'm taking a stand in disagreement. It's scary, but these issues are just too important.
Anonymous said, on 10/2/2009 6:42:00 PM
Mirs, I wasn't asking because I thought it was unethical. I wanted to know if it would be a good idea for writers to use the service.
Anonymous said, on 10/2/2009 6:43:00 PM
I meant Mira, not Mirs. Typo. :)
Anonymous said, on 10/2/2009 6:49:00 PM
Rice harvest looks a lot like wheat harvest in the Columbia Basin or the Palouse.
The hop harvest is winding down in our area. You haven't experienced anything until you've enjoyed the aroma of drying hops. The scent of fall in the Yakima Valley.
It's almost as good as mint harvest--like living in a Tic Tac container. Charlie Mac
Whoa there. There are plenty of editors in the publishing industry who moonlight as ghostwriters, manuscript consultants, book doctors, etc. The Intern works at a publisher, not at an agency, so there aren't any rules about charging to help with query advice. Particularly since this is someone who is working for free in New York City: people gotta eat!
anon-
I think it's helpful to get feedback from people who know what they're doing. Whether you get that from a critique group, a message board, or a paid service is up to you, but it can definitely be helpful. Make sure you really research someone's credentials if they're charging.
I appreciate anon's question (4:24pm), because it's something I've been considering. Thanks, Nathan, for your feedback on that as well. I always love your Friday TWIP blogs.
The Intern also has a book of her own being published, so she obviously has some idea of what she's doing. And lots of people *cough cough* do freelance editorial work. Don't hate us! I mean them!
I think, for what it's worth, you're somewhat right about the experience thing... but I think that's up to the reader to judge when considering what people say. The bloggers are honest about being interns or assistants... so the onus is on the writers to take their advice for what it's worth. And just because someone's considered an expert doesn't mean they're right - they can still offer bad advice.
So, whether expert or intern, it's the writer's job to evaluate the information they're presented with and use it wisely. No easy path! There's no all-knowing Yoda. Perhaps if Nathan were smaller and more wrinkled and, you know, all around more green...
Mira, we are older than Nathan and have been working in publishing off and on for over a decade. We would self-identify as neither "good" nor "kid." FYI.
Thanks for the very nice mention, Obi-Wan! Er, Nathan!
Very nice photo by your dad, Nathan. Be sure and let him know he's got a good eye. It reminds me a bit of the Canadian prairies.
Hope you make it through the weekend so we can read the blog on Monday. Just watch your back at the meeting and trust no one.
Anonymous said, on 10/2/2009 7:34:00 PM
"Make sure you really research someone's credentials if they're charging."
I'm hoping that if someone is willing to hand over their hard earned money to "The Intern, "The Intern" is also willing to give out her real name and her detailed credentials in return before she takes money to read queries and manuscripts.
This entire anonymous intern-publishing blogging thing, in general, is getting tired. It's been done by the rejecter and Miss Snark, and they did it well. But it's time to start flipping back the long hair, adding a name to the blog, and doing things the right way if you want to charge new writers for your services.
I'm all for editors and writers moonlighting, as long as they take it seriously and offer their credentials publicly. And from what I can see, "The Intern" could be anyone trying to make a fast buck.
"Vooks"??? Now I have heard everything. I get the point of keeping up with technology and changing times, but "vooks"?? I am overwhelmed by it all. What happened to just writing a book, being lucky enough to get contract and seeing a copy of it on shelves in a store near you.
I am just starting to get my head around Kindle and so on, but baby steps firts!
Skeptic - I really hope my remarks didn't sound brutal. I didn't intend them that way! Well, maybe the unethical one.
Well, in a week where I don't even have time to go see Nathan, I certainly don't have time to get into a blog battle, especially with Nathan and Ink, both people I really respect and appreciate.
So, um, okay. I'm wrong.
That said, Rejectionist, from my stance you are both a kid and good. However, as a Social Worker, I completely acknowledge your right to self-identify as elderly and bad to the bone.
Nathan, I am sooo gunning for you when I need someone to rep my adult stuff. An agent who posts pics of farm equipment! How amazing is that? Would it help me out if I mentioned that I bring along my laptop top in the truck to do revisions while my husband loads the trailer with hay and my three kids wage WWIII in the backseat? I'm dedicated. Honest.
The saga that is the Google Books settlement looks like it's going to take a bit longer to resolve as the Department of Justice urged some changes to the settlement, and the federal judge handling matters postponed a hearing on October 7 to give everyone some time for changes.
Meanwhile: new e-reader device! Verizon, Best Buy and B&N are teaming up to promote the iRex, a reader that will be stocked in Best Buy and will have 3G wireless. Very exciting.
Mike Shatzkin posted recently on an idea that has been percolating, well, a really long time: publishers need to be better at branding, and in particular knowing the difference between business-to-business branding vs. business-to-consumer branding. In other words: I know what the Knopf brand means because I'm a literary agent, but does anyone in a bookstore check the spine before they buy?
Over at Slate they asked a very pressing question: when have vampires NOT been popular? The article includes a pretty spectacular graph charting the few times in the last 50 years that vampires haven't been insanely popular.
The Washington Post recently featured a very good illustration of something you probably already know if you read publishing blogs: authors have to promote themselves. It's nothing new to those plugged in, but it's a good illustration of the way things often work these days nonetheless.
Over in the UK, a man sued Tesco for discriminating against his religious beliefs by forcing him to remove his hood while in the store. What makes the story ten shades of awesome is that the guy is the founder of the Jedi religion (yes, Star Wars as actual religion) and he believes being forced to remove his hood in public is humiliating and discriminatory. I can only conclude that his attempts at Jedi-mind tricks on store employees failed. Tesco released a statement noting that Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and Luke Skywalker all appeared in public without hoods and only the Emperor always kept his hood on. Ouch. Looks like someone needs to go back to Dagobah to brush up on his Jedi history. (via Boing Boing)
Almost finally, Margaret Yang was the first to point me to this poem by Jim C. Hines about reading slush....... in the form of a Dr. Seuss poem. Very cool.
And finally finally, this spectacular video combines two of my great loves: time-lapse photography and, well, the San Francisco Bay Area (via Andrew Sullivan). Enjoy!
I liked The Historian, but didn't love it. I was happy that the vampires were villains, for one thing, rather than, um, sparkly. There were a lot of things to admire in it, though at times the prose and characters lacked a little resonance for me. That's more subjective taste than a critique, though.
OK, I posted a "pitch" about one of my drawer novels on the Upstart Crow site. Limited to 25 words, it allowed me to completely avoid mention of the questionable writing in said novel :) Anyone else here taking the Upstart Crow challenge?
It cannot be done, for The Drawer is defended by booby traps so devious and terrible they would make even Indiana Jones's hat fall to pieces. Plus the garden of man-eating plants surrounding it. Plus plus the Bog of Eternal Stench around that. Plus plus plus the Pit of Despair surrounding all that. Plus plus plus plus the Vlad-inspired Forest of the Impaled just to scare off the intrepid.
While I don't normally look for certain publishers in the bookstore, I do tend to notice them when I have the books at home. I kind of get the idea of who likes more traditional stories and who is look for more edgy material.
Of course, Intel began branding this year, and they don't even sell anything to consumers directly, but the commercials are catchy. Intel, Sponsors of Tomorrow. Certainly a publishing house could do the same thing.
I'll reprise here what I said on Rachelle's blog about proactive protagonists. Robert Heinlein's novel Job:A Comedy of Justice features a protagonist that is buffeted about by incomprehensible and uncontrollable forces at every stage of the story. And, it is an excellent book.
This is also from Rachelle's blog. She posted about the WaPo article, and though I couldn't address the question she posed, the article did spark me to an enjoyable flight of fancy which I'll share here:
I can't answer the question directly, as posed, because my experience as a writer is still quite new - a prologue and 3 chapters of a YA novel. So, any thoughts of becoming "published" are far in the future. That being said, it's a very interesting subject to me nonetheless. Interestingly, my novel is about high school students who start a band, and one of the subplots will be how the protagonist uses the insights gained in the "New Media" class she's taking to help promote the band.
There are many parallels between what is described in the linked article, and the shift in music marketing starting about 5 years ago. Because of that time lag, there might be useful insights for writers in the way the shifts in music marketing have played out. The last of the label-created stars were probably those of the generation of Avril Lavigne. In that model, the relatively unknown but talented musician signs a big-dollar contract with megalabel which then provides full-service image enhancement for the public persona. And a "star" is born.
That was the point where I became interested in the questions of music marketing and star creation, due to having a young friend who was an aspiring musician, and started studying web resources on the subject.
What I found was that the landscape was changing even as I attempted to map it. The first noticible shift was that more responsiblity was placed on the band to "build their story" - to become well known locally/regionally and have a pre-existing fan base. Rather than promising to make you popular, the A & R guys (and gals) wanted to find you already becoming popuular on your own.
Trend 2A & 2B. The Empire Strikes Back.
The decline of traditional starmaking represented a decisive victory for decentralized media. But the old school centralized outlets (Network TV, etc.) were not to be counted out of the game yet. The first noticible trend was an attempt to leverage the name recognition of performers who were already well-known from other entertainment contexts. This had mixed results. Jessica Simpson of MTV Nick & Jesica fame could at least sing. But she doesn't seem to have had enduring star quality. Her sister Ashlee could not sing. Nor could Hilary Duff. Pre-existing name recognition without underlying musical talent seems to have been a losing proposition. And then some unknown person(s) had a stroke of pure inspiration. Turn starmaking from a cost center into a profit center - and American Idol was born.
The key elements that make it work, IMO, are talent screening at the entry level, reality-show drama in the competition phase, and mass-based fan participation in the decisions.
In writing, we appear to still be at the beginning of the "build your story" stage. But what if the parallel developments between the two industries held solid? Imagine a reality TV show (or website, or youtube series, or whatever). Call it "America's Next Best-Seller". Have judges, eliminations, drama, personality, audience participation. The whole nine yards. Grab Stephen King and Cory Doctorow as judges. Find some big name critic with good stage presence as the "Simon Cowell" character. Promise publishing contracts to the winner(s).
Okay - this is blatant fantasy. I have no idea if it could work or not. But fun to speculate, no?
Meanwhile, those who have finished books, get out and "build your stories".
I love this style of roundup links!! Great way to spend my weekend. Also, I'm surprised you didn't mention the NYTimes article from the other day about e-reader formats. I'm too lazy to look up the link (maybe because I'm bitter that it didn't mention Coral Press), but the people it did reference seem pretty on the ball.
Nathan - 'jedi mind tricks' - you're funny. And that whole situation with the jedi religion thing was hilarious. I loved that the corporation actually 'proved' that they did not violate his religion. Funny stuff. Also funny was the whole vampire article. The 'Garlic' years. Funny.
The Washington post article was interesting. It's nice to have a breakdown of different things that authors can do that can work. I hope someone creates a blog or something that gives authors ideas of how to market themselves - since most of us aren't naturals at it.
Marilyn, thanks for thinking I'm funny. :) And I would think some existentialist wrote a book like that - Kafka, or something. I'll leave it to you and Ink to know which one - I'm in awe of both of your literary expertise.
That would be sort of interesting... but I think watching people read a book is inherently less interesting than watching people sing and perform (or even model). Watching people read is... not so exciting. I suppose you could do performance readings... but do you think anyone would watch that? People pack into concerts and shows everywhere... while literary readings are, one might say, a tough sell. Even when the "sell" is free admittance.
Though it would be neat to see literary readings gaining a renewed interest in our culture, though it would tend to favour performers, perhaps, rather than writers. (Or, rather, favour writers who are excellent performers rather than ones who would rather stay and type in their root cellars, since a vocal performance is very different than the reading experience)
That just gave me an idea about a post or a you tell me... Readings: Good or bad? Helpful to see? Helpful to do? I wonder how many writers these days go to actual readings, and how often, and whether these are beneficial experiences or not.
Mira said: "And I would think some existentialist wrote a book like that - Kafka, or something. I'll leave it to you and Ink to know which one - I'm in awe of both of your literary expertise."
Thanks, Mira! When you jokingly suggested writing a book about someone staring at a wall, I thought back to the good ol’ days when philosophical books based on similar premises were bestsellers. Examples: 1.) Kafka’s METAMORPHOSIS in which a traveling salesman wakes up as an insect and his family cares for him without showing any overt signs of love. 2.) THE MYTH OF SISYPHUS, an essay in which Albert Camus discusses the idea that life might have no meaning and describes a man who must repeatedly push a boulder uphill, only to have it fall back down again. 3.) WAITING FOR GODOT, a play by Samuel Beckett, in which two men wait for someone else to show up. 4.) MAGISTER LUDI, or THE GLASS BEAD GAME, a novel by Hermann Hesse in which scholars play intellectual bead games. Ahhhh, yes, existentialism. Has its day passed?
Your ideas are well thought out and may result in a great novel. However, after you publish your first book, you’ll probably discover why public readings don’t sell very many books today unless the author already has access to widespread distribution and expensive advertising for their books. Readings used to result in increased book sales, back before there were so many books and so many authors and so many competing sources of entertainment. I know an eBook author who became a bestselling author on eBook sites when his books caught on at Science Fiction conventions, but even then he only earned $10,000 per year from his writing. Most eBook and small press authors don’t make nearly that much money – selling 300 copies total of a small press book is considered very successful. Many authors do lots of readings – at conventions, Renaissance Festivals, bookstores (including the large chains, Borders and Barnes and Noble). At each book signing at a bookstore, selling ten copies of a book is considered good. I read an interview with Brunonia Barry in which she discussed how she moved her novel, THE LACE READER, from self-published book to publication by a big publishing house and making the New York Times Best Seller list – she first invested $50,000 in book promotion for the self-published version.
Today, people want visual. Even singers are usually required to dance, to be in amazingly good physical shape, to be beautiful, and to produce visually appealing videos. Janis Joplin, exactly the way she was in her heyday, would have a very hard time making it as a singer today.
I should add that, if a writer doesn’t need to make a living from their writing, they can establish a very nice niche for themselves as a writer in today’s world. If their book gets good reviews and they connect with online writers’ communities, a writer can get lots of opportunities to do public readings and talks. Science Fiction/Fantasy conventions and indie bookstores are especially open to small press and self-published authors with books that have gotten good reviews. However, the author usually needs to pay the cost of travel and hotel for all their appearances, so having many appearances can get expensive.
Marilyn / Ink, I'm about 40 pages in to Cloud Atlas. While I was finding it interesting, I admit I had to look up a synopsis because it was driving me crazy not understanding what the book was about (no helpful write up on the cover...).
I'm weird like that, I can't read a book or watch a movie unless I know what the general story line is. So now I will hopefully be able to get into it more! I love the style of writing so far...
Mira - I'm already saving my pennies and my annual leave to come back ASAP! I'm having pink lemonade withdrawals... darned if I can find anywhere to buy it back home!
Lots of good stuff this week in publishing, but first, I thought I'd lead with a tremendous post by my friend Kristin at Camels & Chocolate, who has some tough, honest, real-world advice about freelance travel writing. She should know - she's extremely good and successful at it, which does not come easy in the freelance world. If you've ever thought about plying your writing trade around the globe, that article is a good place to start.
Meanwhile, this week's End of Publishing as We Know It articles were brought to you by, well, me, and also former Random House Executive Editor-in-Chief Dan Menaker, who starts off a long post about the myriad challenges facing editors in today's industry with Point #1: "Publishing is often an extremely negative culture." It doesn't get much more uplifting from there.
And speaking of, The Millions pointed me to a self-publishing success story by author Kemble Scott, who hit the SF Chronicle bestseller list for a book released in a limited hardcover edition and e-published on Scribd. Scott is far from an unknown (his book SoMa was a bestseller published by Kensington), but he didn't want to wait to get his book out and just got to it.
Reader/commenter Lady Glamis and friends are hosting a Genre Wars contest at The Literary Lab. Submit your short stories and (possibly) win prizes, including a shot at being included in an anthology.
Also in short fiction news, my colleague Sarah LaPolla is soliciting material for her bright and shiny new blog Glass Cases, so check that out as well.
And now that THE LOST SYMBOL is out, I'd like to make a personal plea that literary bookish types abstain from the whole "I'm so above his writing but okay the books are kind of fun to read" attitude. People! They're entertainment. It's okay to like them without apologizing. Or don't like them. Whatever. Just don't be too cool for school. It's not like I watch The Bachelor in the hopes of finding deep meaning and spiritual enlightenment!! That's just a bonus.
In more serious topics, World Politics Review notes the dearth of works of art that have emerged from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, in contrast to long conflicts in the past. Their theories: changing media landscape, the Internet, publishing trends, and a professional military. (via Andrew Sullivan)
Those wacky kids over at Google are partnering with an on-demand publisher to make all 2 bazillion out-of-copyright books available through the fancy Espresso book machine, which churns out a finished book and a mean latte (I wish) in just a few minutes. (via Scott Spern)
My colleague Katherine Arathoon passed me some pretty awesome links, including twopost that rename classic books according to current publishing trends. My favorite: Old: THE WEALTH OF NATIONS. Now: INVISIBLE HANDS: THE MYSTERIOUS MARKET FORCES THAT CONTROL OUR LIVES AND HOW TO PROFIT FROM THEM.
Almost finally, my most excellent client Rebecca Ramsey tackles one of my great loves: strange idioms in other languages. In this post she runs down the different expressions for when it rains really hard. I think the Danes win hands-down for "it's raining shoemaker's apprentices."
And finally, thanks so much for all of the very interesting comments on yesterday's anonymous commenting question. Your input was extremely helpful, and I was surprised at how evenly divided people were on the pros and cons. After giving this a lot of thought, I've decided to leave anonymous commenting on since people articulated some very good reasons for posting anonymously, and hopefully the comments will be more open and free-ranging if people can use the anon option to evade the purview of their employers and/or (politely) go out on a limb with a contrary opinion.
However.
As Spider-Man will tell you, with great power comes great responsibility. Because of the tendency toward abuse of the anon option and the lack of context for an anon post, I'm going to unabashedly hold anonymous commenters to a higher politeness and constructiveness standard than those who post under a name or handle so that the anon function is not used as a cover to espouse an unproductive attitude that might otherwise not be written if the person were associating their own name with the comment. Hopefully this will best facilitate a constructive dialogue, and polite anons will have nothing to worry about.
Have a great weekend!
26 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 9/21/2009
Dan Brown isn't trying to write lyrical masterpieces. He's writing what he loves. It works for him and millions of others. I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of for liking a great story. I can't wait to read his latest.
Before coming here, I had just linked to Rebecca Ramsey's post in a comment response on my own blog. I'm partial to "it's raining chair legs."
Anonymous said, on 9/18/2009 3:40:00 PM
At the end of the day, if I'm in love with my story and my characters, at the very least they work for me.
At this humble point, I am aiming for a twenty-person readership fan club.
I have 2 for 2 on full reads so far and a handful of chapter fans. It may seem like small stuff, but I can't begin to tell you all how wonderful even one reader is, especially when they go on about your characters because they came to life for them.
(When and if the price for on-demand is ever right, I am considering hiring an editor so that my novel is polished and then on-demand pubbing it for those twenty folks. My own little limited edition. But if you can't make it in the big pond, maybe a little puddle could be a splash.)
Anonymous said, on 9/18/2009 3:42:00 PM
Wow! Daniel Menaker's article was truly impressive. Like all well-written novels, his voice was engaging, the facts were frightening, and yet, he ended it on a positive note. Well, he ended it as positively as reality would allow.
I learned more about the deeeep inner workings of the publishing industry from his article than I've learned from anywhere else. Sure, I've known the facts, the statistics, and all of the other assorted bad news for some time, but I’d never experienced it.
By the end of the article, I was genuinely feeling empathy for the acquisition editors, even the ones who will one day be rejecting the fruit of my blood, sweat, tears, and fragile ego.
Wow! Daniel Menaker's article was truly impressive. Like all well-written novels, his voice was engaging, the facts were frightening, and yet, he ended it on a positive note. Well, he ended it as positively as reality would allow.
I learned more about the deeeep inner workings of the publishing industry from his article than I've learned from anywhere else. Sure, I've known the facts, the statistics, and all of the other assorted bad news for some time, but I’d never experienced it.
By the end of the article, I was genuinely feeling empathy for the acquisition editors, who will eventually be rejecting the fruit of my blood, sweat, tears, and fragile ego.
Thanks for sharing the article. (I didn't mean to post as Anonymous)
Nathan, Thanks a lot for mentioning our GENRE WARS contest! I really appreciate your support! I also wanted to mention that the proceeds from the anthology will also be donated to a reading/writing charity or non-profit.
I'm not going to diss Dan Brown because I think I'm too cool for his books, but the Da Vinci Code was one of those books I put down after a couple of pages because I didn't get into it. Saying that, I do that with a heck of a lot of books. It's just that anyone would think God had released a sequel to the Bible, the way everyone is carrying on... Surely it couldn't have been THAT fantastico a book? Or should I give it another shot?
Warning: extremely complimentary post about to follow. :)
Nathan, yesterday was marvelous. Watching as you asked input, engaged, weighed both sides, and came to a decision was major cool. You have a gift for leadership.
But most important, thanks for allowing this blog to continue to be an open forum. And I like your compromise. I hope having to ponder deletion decisions less will make your job easier.
And speaking of gifts, since I'm being complimentary, can I just add that I gave alittle sigh of envy at your humor writing in your post? The line: "That's just a bonus" - oh, such nice timing. Surprise jokes like that - they're delicious.
Sigh. :)
Hope you and everyone else on the blog has a great weekend.
Lol. I re-read my post, and realized I ended up editing out most of the compliments about ethics and responsible handling of power and your award for best industry blog and how I saw your leadership abilities at your workshop as well.
Well, probably just as well I edited all of that out. It might have been abit too much.
mkcbunny said, on 9/19/2009 12:07:00 AM
I dunno. If it rained she-trolls, I might be more astonished than if a hail of shoemakers' apprentices fell down around me.
Anonymous said, on 9/19/2009 11:46:00 AM
Great links!
terri said, on 9/19/2009 11:49:00 AM
Awesome post as always Nathan. Even when I'm too busy to read all of my fav blogs, I never miss TWIP.
I am looking forward to Brown's new book. I like being entertained! I also agree that anything that gets folks into bookstores and reading is a good thing.
Our business has one employee. He barely finished high school. However, he could build the space shuttle with a 2X4, a screwdriver, and a roll of duct tape. Not well educated, but tremendously talented. He told me one day that he doesn't read a lot, but has read every book written by Grisham.
Tell me, you literary critics, how is this a bad thing?
Long live books that are entertaining for the sake of being entertaining!
Terri
terri said, on 9/19/2009 11:53:00 AM
Can't wait to submit to "Genre Wars". I have a shortie called 'Serial Killer's Day Off' that might be just the ticket!
Well, I did it. I submitted a literary short story to the genre wars. And would you believe my word verification for this comment? suffur - exactly what I'll be doing till January when they announce the winners.
Wow... The Menaker piece kind of makes you want to stick a pencil in your eye. "Redactor Agonistes" (Publisher Struggles) is beyond bleak.
Admittedly, I tend to be the snotty literary type Nathan describes, but I enjoy a Twinkie book every now and again... and not just to be lamely ironic.
Anonymous said, on 9/20/2009 3:02:00 PM
Generally I'm pretty easy-going, but all the Dan Brown bashing going on has made me really impatient and frustrated with the literati--and the twitterati. For all people are talking about literary merit or success or whatever-- what does any of that matter if people don't read your work? People are reading his book. MILLIONS of people. And I'm sure a good portion of those people will like it, enjoy it, love it, etc. Who's to say that those people are enjoying it, but it's still crap? I think it's horrifically patronizing to say that Brown must want to write something of "great literary merit" but can only come up with crappy thrillers. What rot. A huge value judgement, as if brilliant writers can't choose to write genre fiction. As if choosing to entertain with your writing cannot be a valuable goal in itself.
And maybe I feel so strongly about this b/c as someone who writes romance, I've had to grit my teeth on too many occasions to count when told that romance is crap or--the term used most often--"trash." As if there's something wrong with writing about love and sex and commitment, about falling in love and the beauty of human connections. I'm always saddened to see someone in the romance community coming out with a "defense of romance" blog post or article, because the need for defense is predicated on the idea that writing and enjoying romance must be justified. It shouldn't have to be, though. It doesn't have to be. In that same vein, I don't think the people enjoying Dan Brown's work need to offer a defense or justification.
Oh, wow, I guess I had more to say on this topic than I thought.
Dan Brown is laughing all the way to the bank. People can talk about the "drivel" that he writes and he will still be sipping margaritas in The Bahamas. I'd trade places with him anyday, and I'm actually doing very well. Brown's publisher is pretty happy too. Even with all the lukewarm reviews the book is still in the Amazon top 10.
Just watch though--- he might just pull an Anne Rice and get all nutty. Authors seem to go a little crazy when they have too much success.
I'm sorry but I never understood why Dan Brown ever got such a bad rep.
I have not bought the book yet. However, it will be the next book I buy! I'm not afraid to admit Dan Brown is one of my favorite writers (if not THE favorite). Think what you will! But DaBro has mad skillz.
Thanks for the links! I appreciate it. I'll try to get through them during the week (yes I'm slightly behind here...school is kicking my hiney)!
Sorry to hear you're keeping anonymous commenting. lol. But hey, maybe you made your point. :) There is always the option of holding anonymous comments but I'm not sure blogger does it.
I know Jennifer Jackson can do it. If you use your profile, there is immediate posting. Anonymous posts are held to be reviewed prior to posting. She uses LiveJournal though. We would follow you if you moved! Or maybe you could mention it to blogger?? I'm sure you have a bit of weight you can throw around. ;)
OMG Nathan! I'm not sure you subscribe to comments on older posts so let me reiterate what I was saying when I read about JACOB WONDERBAR!
HOLY CRAPOLA!! I'm so terribly sorry I missed the fantastic news! I've been SO busy with school (I'm in the ICU this semester and clinicals have been kicking my hiney since I'm on evening shifts). I'm SO PROUD! I love when great things happen to great people and I'm not just saying that.
I'm so happy for you and I knew you seemed to understand the writer's perspective too well to not have experienced it! You are fantabulous and I can't wait to read your MG book. My daughter will be 6 when it comes out so just in time!
MANY MANY CONGRATS! And again, I apologize for not seeing it sooner!
Thanks again so much to everyone for your kind words about JACOB WONDERBAR, I really, really appreciate it!
But meanwhile, there was a week in publishing and let's summarize it, hmm?
First up, lest ye think I've gone all high-fallutin' on you, Anne & May are hosting an America's Next Top Model elimination pool where you make your picks for the top three and then guess who will be eliminated each week. The winner gets a $25 B&N gift certificate and the incredible, immense pride that goes with correctly picking the winners of a bizarre reality television show. In case you're wondering: yes, I'm entering, and yes, I'm going to win. You're know you're too "catalogue" to beat these smiling eyes.
Your Amazon Controversy of the Week is brought to you by their Kindle loss/theft policy and the letters WTF. When your Kindle is lost or stolen Amazon refuses to shut it down or aid in its recovery unless directed by court subpoena. Yup. The article notes that they are hardly alone in this policy, but there is no real procedure for legally transferring ownership of the device. Or, you know, stopping the guy who stole yours from using it.
Amid rumors that Time Warner is contemplating entering the e-book reader device game, David Pogue caught up with Steve Jobs and asked him about the future market for dedicated e-readers. Jobs' opinion may sound familiar if you read the comments section of this blog: "I’m sure there will always be dedicated devices, and they may have a few advantages in doing just one thing. But I think the general-purpose devices will win the day. Because I think people just probably aren’t willing to pay for a dedicated device." I think a lot of people around these parts will concur.
The juggernaut that is James Patterson signed A 17 BOOK DEAL with Hachette. The best part? This only covers the books coming out in the next three years.
In other Hachette news, the NY Times was able to break the embargo on Ted Kennedy's memoir by obtaining an unauthorized early copy. Yen at the Book Publicity Blog reflects on the history of embargoes and their importance. And it turns out that Hachette was so miffed about the embargo-breaking that they hired a private detective to sniff out who leaked it. Wow.
And this got me to thinking: which literary detective should they put on The Case of the Broken Embargo? Make your pick in the comments section. I'm going with Harriet the Spy.
And SPEAKING OF, over at Pimp My Novel, which, as you may recall, and if you don't recall oh let me not so gently remind you, had its birth right here on this blog: an incredibly hilarious and informative take on a day in the life of a publishing sales assistant. At this point I'd say Pimp My Novel is the greatest thing since sliced bread, ONLY IT'S FAR, FAR BETTER THAN SLICED BREAD. It's just an incredible blog. I can hear it now..... a tense moment on the Death Star.... lightsabers clashing..... Eric's words echo: "When I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master....." Sheesh. The force is strong in this one.
My wonderful client Natalie Whipple has been hard at work on some revisions, but thankfully for all of us she took some time to provide a checklist of ways to beat revision fatigue. Really great advice.
And finally, one of my great loves is public transportation, and the Book Design Review has a pretty cool roundup of some transit map inspired book covers.
Have a great weekend!
52 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 9/14/2009
@my fave punk writer, you're on, as longas you do it too, and no one laughs at my farmer-tan, I do have some cute freckles to with it, though.
My choice in sleuth? I've always loved Angela, because she looks like my grandma, but someone always dies when she's around, so I'm going with man tracker. He'll suss the culprit out and chase 'em down on horseback.
As for 17 books, I'd hope that some are already written, or very thorough outlines have already been drawn up. I know that Robert Mucnsh has oodles and oodles of books on file with his publisher, but they only put out two a year, so there ends up being a surplus. Bt seriously, let's look at what happens when we get too much of a good thing. Billy Ray needed his daughter to get back into music, because after two years of constantly hearing "Achey Breaky Heart" all I cared about were my Achey Breaky eardrums. I hope they paid him well, because it could be a career ender. Though, I would have to defend him by saying some writers can do it. Look at Stephen King. He has an amazing output. And, THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE (Stephen Crane)took only about a weekend to write, I believe. If one were willing to turn over a major portiion of the editorial control it could be done. But I have to tell you, I'm still thinking my achey breaky eyeballs.
I don't know... my inner 12 year old is forever scarred by adolescent suburban rappers. Oh, they should not have been allowed to listen to Public Enemy, oh no...
Nathan, is your book due out spring or fall of 2011? I've got a MG/PB coming out fall 2010. If it does well enough that I can make it to some of those book thingies, I'll definitely keep an eye out for Jacob. BTW, that is the name of my fave MG protag- Jacob Two-Two. Anyway, just wondering. Again, all the best with your novel, but please don't stop agenting. I'm still looking for someone to rep my adult stuff after I get a few lit mags behind me ;)
I think whoever wins the epic book blogger battle should get to say to the other contestants, "This is not book-blogging...This is book-blogging." Of course, in true ANTM tradition, the second one won't be noticeably different than the first.
...and you're a public transpo fiend? Dude, I am SO taking you for a trip on the TTC and then we're stopping for a Molson's. Or for a max ride and a pint of Widmer's.
Nathan, I love your weekly roundups and I end up flagging many of them. However, I won't be catching up that much this weekend as I will be attending the workshop in SF. (((waving hands, very excited))) And yes, I'm bragging.
Wondering if there is anything to bring outside of my bright smiling face, a notepad, and possibly a working synopsis of my MS?
TTC? that is pure luxury. I used to know how to get anywhere in the greater Cape Town area via a mini bus taxi. The drivers shift those suckers with a spanner/wrench, and they fit about 20 people into a van that wouldn't qualify as a mini van here. But hey, it only cost about twelve rand to go clean across the city. At the time, the exchange rate was 14 rand per USD. And, being the Canadian girl, I got to sit in the front seat (next to the driver of course), but unfortuantley that meant I had to count the change for the other nine passengers who spoke only Xhosa or Afrikaans. Ah, but the TTC. Pure luxury.
Patrice said, on 9/11/2009 7:07:00 PM
1. I loved Natalie's post on beating revision fatigue and I told her so. Thanks for pointing us her way - what an inspiration she is.
2. I have four young kids and always look forward to yet another parenting manual. NURTURESHOCK sounds like an original and fun project. But, the thing is, no matter what we parents do, the kids are gonna need therapy when they grow up.
3. I think the kid from THE CURIOUS INCIDENT OF THE DOG IN THE NIGHT-TIME could solve the embargo-breaking mystery.
Just now finished reading Natalie Whipple’s advice about how to beat revision fatigue. Thank you, Natalie! Your advice came at a reeeeeally good time for me – in the throes of revising the last two chapters of my novel, realizing that I probably need to expand them into at least seven more chapters.
And congratulations, Eric, on the success of your blog!
(Nathan, I hope you don’t mind my posting this. Just delete it if you do.)
Here’s an interesting article I discovered through Creative Screenwriting:
Josh Olson Will Not Read Your Script "Easily offended or easily discouraged beware: screenwriter Josh Olson has some harsh words about why he will not read your script. (Harsh language abounds, so proceed with caution.)"
Even though the essay deals with screenwriting, many of Olson’s points apply to any type of writing, when the beginner wants the expert to read his work and give him feedback. And the comments in response are illuminating.
Excerpt: “It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't.
(By the way, here's a simple way to find out if you're a writer. If you disagree with that statement, you're not a writer. Because, you see, writers are also readers.)”
Anonymous said, on 9/12/2009 12:24:00 AM
Marilyn,
You are always so nice and gracious to everyone.
I have read Natalie Whipple’s blog too, and you reminded me that I should comment on how much I enjoyed it. Thanks Natalie!
Anonymous said, on 9/12/2009 12:55:00 AM
wow, i can not read even past the first three paragraphs of josh's link. sorry, but (josh) you lost me at hello.
I know he's from TV and not books, but I would choose Inspector Gadget. He wouldn't find anything, because he's hilariously incompetent, but he has a hat that turns into a helicopter. A helicopter!!
Auguste C. Dupin could do a touch of leisurely observing and get to the heart of the problem.
Thursday's comments made interesting reading - rant-tastic!
Nathan's news paled into insignificance compared to the most stunning and unexpected event of my week. The English football team playing with confidence and skill and walking the qualification for the World Cup. Capello speaks Italian, Spanish, French, English, and confidence it seems.
Anonymous said, on 9/12/2009 8:05:00 AM
Jessica Fletcher gets my vote for detective. Especially if she has a bunch of Love Boat alumni as her suspects.
Thank you so much. Your comment meant a lot to me, especially this particularly rough week as I struggle through all the frustration of rewriting and editing a manuscript. :)
Katrina said, on 9/12/2009 11:39:00 AM
I'm in a bit of a query predicament... I'm from the US, but this month, I'll be going to London to get a degree in English/creative writing. (Not an exchnage year, but a full BA degree in the UK.)
Should I even bother querying American agents while I'm overseas, or would my location guarantee a rejection? And if I do query, should I mention where and what I'm studying?
I'm so joining that Top Model contest :) It's the only reality TV show I watch.
I'm also really curious what happened to crazy Amber...I know they said she had to leave unexpectedly and I wonder if it's because she was a little too loopy :P
Anyway, I think this is gonna be a great season--I'm loving the "short" girls. Even though 5'5" in the real world isn't short!
"This Embargo Business" by Dashiell Hammett, featuring the Continental Op, a sleuth so ordinary, you don't notice him sitting right next to you.
BTW, I finally had to close the book halfway through on the Joe Gores' "Maltese Falcon" prequel. And no, I wasn't think "If only they'd ask ME to write it." (I would've run for the nearest hill; ditto James Patterson's 17 novels, but different reasons, there)
This week, I wrote about the Monterey Bay Aquarium at my Red Room site: http://www.redroom.com/articlestory/the-monterey-bay-aquarium-heaven-is-made-water
I couldn't resist checking out the Amish romance novel link. My goodness, everyone is being quite snarky about this! I doubt that any of the people in the first page of comments that I scanned has actually read one.
I've read one or two, and glanced at them in the PA turnpike roadside shops.
What people are totally overlooking, and I apologize if someone here has mentioned it already, is that most of these Amish romance novels are Christian romance novels. They are put out by Christian publishers like Bethany and Zondervan, and present a very clean, wholesome love story. At least, all the ones I've seen here in NJ and PA seem to be Christian.
I think people are tired of cynicism and casual sex. I'm very glad to see this genre explosion, and glad it's there as an option for romance readers.
I do wonder how long it's going to last, however, as it has been going strong for quite a few years now.
PS I should add that the Amish novels aren't just on the turnpike. They are in the CVS drug store pharmacy waiting areas on their own special display stands, they are in Wal-Mart, K-Mart, the grocery store... everywhere. And of course the Christian bookstores are full of them.
PS I should add that the Amish novels aren't just on the turnpike. They are in the CVS drug store pharmacy waiting areas on their own special display stands, they are in Wal-Mart, K-Mart, the grocery store... everywhere. And of course the Christian bookstores are full of them.
The novels are also at the large chain bookstores. I work at one and we sell tons of them.
Just found an interesting link on Twitter to an article by writer Jeremy Blachman, responding to John Olson's article which has been heating up discussion on the Internet and was mentioned earlier on this blog by Marla Warren.
Just found an interesting link on Twitter to an article by writer Jeremy Blachman, responding to John Olson's article which has been heating up discussion on the Internet and was mentioned earlier on this blog by Marla Warren.
Thank you for posting this, Marilyn. It is interesting, as are the comments that follow.
Comments on an article tell you a good deal about the audience of a particular website or blog.
Thank you for the round-up. I'm quite sure if I congratulated you, if not, well done, again.
I remember thinking "Gosh, his sci-fi boys adventure will be published before mine, lucky fella"
Speaking of "fellaness", what on earth are you doing watching ANTM - it's auful, hideous and the worst example of culture present. Wasn't that girl Bianca nuts?
Thank you for the round-up. I'm quite sure I congratulated you, if not, well done, again.
I remember thinking "Gosh, his sci-fi boys adventure will be published before mine, lucky fella"
Speaking of "fellaness", what on earth are you doing watching ANTM - it's auful, hideous and the worst example of culture present. Wasn't that girl Bianca nuts?
I'm sitting at my computer with a 102* fever. iGoogle pops up, and there is a window to your blog. I don't know how it got there... my computer lives a completely separate life from mine. Congratulations on your book (and I'll admit that I wish it was mine!)! Cool blog...I'll have to keep reading. No, that's not the 102* fever talking.
Again I would like to say congrats on your book deal. And to throw in my two cents about the embargo, I'm going to say Lawrence Block's Matthew Scudder or Bernie Rodenbhar(Sp?). Neither of them are really Det., but both would get to the bottom of the situation.
Regarding the Olsen article, when I first started getting "into" the Internet and this whole social networking thing, I found myself having an email conversation with a published writer whose blog I had joined.
I asked her if she would mind looking at my first chapter, and she responded in a politely huffy way that she would take a quick look, but she does critiques for a fee and has clients working two jobs to pay for her services, so she really doesn't think it's fair to look at mine for free.
I immediately responded that I had no idea, and if I wanted her to look at it in the future I would pay her accordingly.
Of course I can't pay her and have no intention of contacting her again. But it was a sobering wake-up call for a complete newbie.
Another writer who is a personal friend of a personal friend, just didn't respond to my request, even though I told her that our mutual friend had suggested I get in touch with her. I figured no response was clear enough, and haven't contacted her again either. I'm too embarrassed. I wouldn't even ask her for an autograph now. Which is a shame, because I really, really like her books.
Anonymous said, on 9/13/2009 11:14:00 PM
Christine,
I am sorry for your disappointing experiences. If it’s any consolation, many of us have experienced similarly awkward and embarrassing situations.
I wonder, have you asked your friend about not hearing back from her author friend? Did she give you the author’s contact information?
Perhaps your friend is not as close to the author as she presumes, and she was out of line when she handed out the author’s contact information, or perhpas your email simply fell through the cracks – as sometimes happens. Ask your friend.
BTW: The published author who bragged that she has people working two jobs to pay her fees sounds like a real ass. IMHO. 8)
Keep it up. Who knows, one-day new writers may be asking you to read their chapters – won’t that be a pleasant switch? I hope that we all remember how it felt to be a new, uncertain, struggling writer.
Marilyn, thanks for that info. It is an incredible relief to a mother who isn't so hot with routines, but does make homemmade play dough. However, I'm not sure if research supports this, but I have always seen a link with many of my favourite accomplished people and the ammount of time they spent in the outdoors as children. You can't understand your place in the world without proper exposure to clean air, tall trees, and clear streams.
Anon ~ Thank you for the kind comments. Regarding the writer who didn't respond, I had actually contacted her by email prior to sending the chapter and let her know who the mutual friend was and how much I loved her books. The mutual friend is pretty good friends with her. She seemed quite flattered by my email.
However, she may still have felt that I and/or friend had overstepped the connection, or that the chapter was so awful that she didn't know what to say, or simply didn't have time to look at it. I wasn't going to risk over-reaching again to find out.
On the Kindle issue, it seems to me that as long as you are able to cancel your credit card so a thief can't run up a big tab, that's all you can ask for. I dont think we should expect Amazon to be in the law enforcement and private detective business. Dont they have their hands in enough businesses already?!
Thanks to everyone for participating in Writer Appreciation Week. Hope all the writers out there feel, well, appreciated.
I know lots of people are probably skipping out early to get in their last BBQ or trip to the beach on this fine Labor Day weekend, but this blog stops for no one! No one, you hear!!
Only it's going to stop this coming Monday and Tuesday. Just a quick Labor Day Weekend blog break, and it will be back in full force with a You Tell Me on Wednesday.
Now then.
Devastating news from PBS: the iconic show Reading Rainbow, a show little Nathan was completely obsessed with and directly resulted in his life in publishing, is no more, ending a truly amazing 26 year run. LeVar Burton: you are a great man, and Reading Rainbow will be sorely, sorely missed. The New Yorker's Book Bench reflects on what it was like watching it as a kid.
Meanwhile, in other television news, "Will & Grace" veteran and literary agent sibling Gail Lerner is developing a comedy show about the publishing world called "Open Books." Oh my. (via Jonathan Lyons)
I just caught up with this post from How Publishing Really Works that itself was catching up with a PW article from 2005 (if the blog existed then we would so have been all over this), analyzing some, shall we say, eye-opening stats from iUniverse. In 2004 there were 18,108 titles published on iUniverse. 83 of them sold more than 500 copies. Average copies sold: 43.8 per title. (via Self-Publishing Review)
It's okay, Little Sparky. Something else will come along to help inspire children to continue reading. (I hope!)
Times have changed. The next generation is already watching Word Girl and improving their vocabulary. (Aren't they?) Or have Twitter and texting ruined the English language beyond repair?
What next - no more Sesame Street? Then you give us the stat of 43.8 average number of copies sold per title? This was so not a warm, fuzzy way to end Writer Appreciation Week - I was willing to wait until next week for my cold, hard splash of reality.
I never even heard of iUniverse. No wonder their numbers are so low. ;^)
Very good article about synopses and one-liners. People'd save a whole lotta time––ours and there's––writing about something they can sum up succinctly. Usually means there's something there.
Oh no, not Reading Rainbow! I had the theme stuck in my head randomly earlier this week...perhaps it was prophetic.
Like the commenter above me, I thought it was odd how Geordi hosted Reading Rainbow as well, and when I was very young, wondered how he did so without his visor glasses. When I got a little bit older, I just thought it was awesome.
That's terrible about Reading Rainbow. My kids have all outgrown it, but it was a great show and I always dreamed of being featured on it someday.
The other big "publishing" news, of course, the one that has me lusting mightily for more than I can afford, doesn't really have anything to do with publishing as we define it here: the Beatles are finally getting some decent CD treatment...
Having grown up in another country I never saw Reading Rainbow but it sounds wonderful. It seems so much is ugly these days, on tv etc.,kids need something to teach them the finer and beautiful side of life. Which brings me to the spider web = such a work of art and a great parallel to us writing spinners. Mira's right though, until we've been inside that spider's head we don't know what he thinks. After reading Charlotte's Web I ducked under those early morning strands for a long time, more and more of them decorating my walkway until it must have become a minefield for the insects. Is the glass half full or half empty then? May you all have a very full weekend!
Just the other day I was just singing this song to my kids (14 and 10) and they were looking at me like I was crazy.
I expanded on it by telling them of the show about the goats. I forget the name of the book, but it was the one where the little girl goat was a picky eater and her parents convinced her to eat salad with sliced tire in it. That was my fav episode.
It's so sad to hear Reading Rainbow's going off the air. It helped me to feel better about my love of reading. A child on the school bus ask me what was so good about reading. (sixth grade) I replied proudly, "It let's your mind soar." Needless to say, I heard about that one until I graduated.
Thanks for the link to the Self-Publishing Review. I'll be damned if I didn't try to name my blog the same thing. I changed it last night.
The article "Self Publishing: Best Idea Ever" was fantastic. I don't let myself get down about the statistics. There's a lot of losers out there, but there's also a lot of Aaron Shepards (my hero).
All this "doom and gloom" won't last-- this is such an exciting and innovative time. I think the industry is just re-setting itself.
I can't wait to see Open Books. It should be interesting to peep further into the pub biz. (If it is at all the slightest bit factual). But hey if that show doesn't pan out they can follow you around all day Nathan! Now that would be some fun reality TV! Better yet they could alternate from you to Janet Reid to Rachelle Gardener. That for sure would be some must see TV.
Nathan, just want to say thanks for Author Appreciation Week. Per your suggestion, I downloaded the kindle app on my iphone. I was skeptical and didn't download any books until Published Authors Appreciation Day, when I felt guilty for all my library borrowing, but was too lazy to leave the house and buy a book. Who knew (you did) but I LOVE reading on my iphone!
Also, thanks for the old school Reading Rainbow clip. I remember when that was the opening credits montage. I also remember that great feeling as a kid when I thought, man, these books are too babyish, I'm going to go read some big kid books BY MYSELF. We need some kind of online Reading Rainbow for this generation.
Thanks, Nathan, for the terrific links - as always!
It saddens me to learn that READING RAINBOW is no more. Not only did it inspire me to read as a kid, not only is the theme song still burned into my brain, but it also makes me wonder if the ratings have slipped because kids are less interested in reading these days. Say it ain't so!
Have a happy Labor Day everyone - even if you live in Canada, Australia, England, or other non-American parts of the world, take some time to chill out! And I'll be trying hard to follow my own advice - hehehe.
I was thinking the same darn thing... I was feeling so good about Writer Appreciation Week... and then I read those book stats. But, hey, at least that was back in 2004 when the state of publishing was, er, uh, BETTER than it is today.
Oh, darn it all, now I am bummed! Thanks a lot, Nathan!
Okay, I just have one more thing to say and then I promise to go away...
While I was reading the article "The Last Remaining Ways to Get a Book Deal," I thought... hey, what's the deal with puppies? What about kitties? If I write a book about my kitty, am I guaranteed a deal, too? Where's the love for kitty lovers of the world?
Shoot, now I'm rivaling Mira for the number of posts in one day. Soon, J.J.'s gonna start teasing me, too! I promise - you'll hear not a peep from me for the rest of the weekend. See y'all next week!
My brother and I were huge Reading Rainbow fans. I knew what authors to search out in the library because of LeVar Burton.
I can't think of a time when a show like that could be more needed than now, when so many children are raised by a television set, and their parents are too busy to read them a book. I am a strong believer that every child shood be read stories.
And, enjoy your blogging break, and your weekend in general.
Hi Laura. Hey guess what? We don't have Labor Day in Canada, but we do have Labour Day here. Woohoo, another day for North Americans to labour on their MSs. Enjoy the day.
Oh, well, Happy Labour Day, Literary Cowgirl! Good luck with your mss... I'll be critiquing someone else's in honor (or should I say "honour"?) of the holiday!
mkcbunny said, on 9/5/2009 3:52:00 AM
LeVar Burton rocks.
I love the idea of adopting a word. Plus, the usage examples are hilarious. I wish I could commit to "drollic" or "sturionic."
JJ - it probably seems like I post more than I do, because my posts are so INCREDIBLE. But, just so you know, I strictly limit myself to 2-3 posts daily, which is standard for a 'regular.' It requires an INCREDIBLE amount of self-discipline. Personally, I'm amazed that I'm able to do it. Sometime I just sit around staring at the walls, thinking: wow. I've managed to go 3 hours without posting at Nathan's. I'm INCREDIBLE.
I think you can see the theme here.
But it's a new day, and I can post again - yay!
So, first, since Reading Rainbow is closing, I want to share a link that helps with Literacy. Maybe folks already know this one. You 'click' on it every day, and the sponsors donate money for books. You can click on the other tabs, too, like Hunger and the Rainforest. It's cool. Here's the site: Literacy Site
So, the links. These are some fun links for labor day, Nathan! Cool. Except for the one about I-Universe, which I really didn't 'get'. It had math in it, so my mind shut down, which is the best way to handle math.
The other links are cool. I'm going to test out my own name at the Google name thing. Just for fun. I hope they do a T.V. show on publishing - that's marketing!!! It will bring people to books if it's funny enough.
Okey dokey. Hope everyone is having a fun weekend so far.
So, I just realized that after promising yesterday at 3:46 p.m. that "you'll hear not a peep from me for the rest of the weekend," I went ahead and posted again at 1:02 a.m. this morning. Oops. In my defense, I was responding to Literary Cowgirl, who had directly addressed me. At least, I think she had.
Well, since I'm here again... I just want y'all to know that, after much thought about the coolness of the "Save the Words" link, I adopted "magistricide" (the killing of a teacher or master).
Now, don't go reading anything into that, Nathan. As teachers go, you're the best... and I hope you stick around a long time! I just thought the word sounded cool. Some of them I had a hard time pronouncing, let alone remembering.
Okay, here I go again. I'll try hard not to return. Heehee.
-----
word veri: aught - as in I aught to stop wearing out my welcome at Nathan's!
I know Laura. My posting quota gets confusing when people talk to me. It's a very, very complicated thing, this posting business.
Okay, I adopted Snollygoster. I had to. It's the best darn word I ever saw in my life. Forgot to look up what it means, though. I'll have to check, since I've made a lifelong commitment to use it. Shouldn't be hard to work that into a conversation.
Darn it all! I was trying so hard NOT to come back... and then Mira had to go and talk to me. Argh.
Incidentally, Mira, I love that you adopted "snollygoster" - that's hilarious. Not only is it a totally fun word to say - Lewis Carroll, eat your heart out! - but the definition's not bad either. It means "a clever, unscrupulous person" - hmm, I'll have to remember that. It could make a terrific insult! So, no, Mira, I don't think you'll find it hard to use it... unfortunately, there are a lot of snollygosters in the world!
Hey, does anyone else remember the ABC Saturday morning shows based on books, with the orange cat Captain O. G. Readmore?
Anonymous said, on 9/6/2009 7:23:00 PM
Seven or eight years ago, certain people in the publishing business were saying that because of the Harry Potter books, a new generation of 'avid readers' would be created, and that the publishing business would likely prosper as the result.
Here in Vancouver, Allan MacDougall said that.
And exactly who is Allan MacDougall, I hear you ask?
Allan MacDougall is the CEO and publisher of Raincoast Books, the Canadian distributor and publisher of Harry Potter in Canada. When Allan was at the Hannover Book Fair one year, there was a minor buzz being generated about this new children's book called Harry Potter - so MacDougall inquired about the Canadian rights, and discovered that they were still available.
He had to put in a bid on the series, knowing that the odds of selling even five thousand copies of each book would be improbable. He said to his assistant, 'let's go hog wild here, and assume that we might eventually sell ten thousand copies of each book'.
He put his bid in and won the rights. By Christmas of that year, Raincoast had sold 75,000 copies - and Allan knew that they were pretty much riding a runaway train.
The notion that Harry Potter alone was going to 'create an entirely new generation of avid readers' was, in my mind, just plain silly. For one thing, I noticed that my nieces and nephews were indeed reading the Harry Potter books - but I noticed as well that that's all they were reading. Indeed, they were reading these books, and then re-reading them. In other words, they weren't advancing to other books - J.R.R. Tolkien, or C.S. Lewis, for example.
If you were to ask me, which person has done more to get kids reading, LeVar Burton, or J.K. Rowling I would say Burton, hands down.
Rowling was a passing fad. LeVar Burton was an ambassador to books.
Anonymous said, on 9/6/2009 7:25:00 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to write that Raincoast Books, in March of 2008, shut down its publishing division.
Laura, A good thing they didn't have this adopt a word thing when I was doing basic training (QL@ here), or rookdom at Norwich, because I would have snapped up magistricide in a heartbeat!
I have to agree with you about the Harry Potter books. I have been cursed with children who don't read, unless it's instructions for accomplishing missions or getting cheats on their video games. I had hoped the Harry books would jump start them, but only one of mine even read the first book.
I had the same hopes with the Goose Bumps series. They read those books, but nothing else. And only because they had to write reading logs and book reports at school.
I was pretty disappointed to read some of the - reviews? - on writing for children/YA. Quick, snappy, get to the juice of the story, don't drag out any one scene or concept. Get to the end as quick as possible.
Maybe texting has turned our kids away from pleasure reading.
I know it's a little late, but I went on a book-spree today. Most of what I bought were books I'd been meaning to pick up for ages, like the Time Traveller's Wife and the Poisonwood Bible, but in keeping with Writer Appreciation Week I bought a book by a local, debut author too. It actually looks really cool, not something I would have bought if I hadn't been specifically looking for something from a first-time author.
This Week! The publishing! Which is on a diet this week as I have just a few links for you to peruse.
There's lots of talk out there about how e-books are better for the environment than paper books. How much better? Well, first of all, would you believe that 125 million trees are cut down for the publishing and magazine industries EVERY YEAR? That startling fact and more in Fast Company's assessment about whether e-books or print books are more sustainable. (via Book Bench)
Annnnnd speaking of e-readers, Sony announced one more e-reader, and this one will have 3G!! Praise the gods of wireless!! Needless to say I'm pretty excited. Sony will soon have three different e-readers at three different sizes and price points to choose from. Choice is good.
A very interesting discussion at the Guardian's book blog, as Allison Flood took issue with an assertion that realism has gone too far in children's literature. What do you think? Has the sex and violence in children's literature gone too far or do we benefit from authors delving into the difficult areas of teen life?
In writing advice news, Rachelle Gardner is having a guest blog contest of her own, and this week she also tackled some of the pervasive myths about the publishing industry. Spoiler: there is not actually a fire-breathing monster underneath Random House. You can put away your pitchforks.
Jessica Faust at Bookends addressed yet another myth: rampant idea theft among writers. She doesn't think it's very common. I'm going to have to agree. And also steal that idea.
Almost finally, Kiersten White got some fantastic news recently about her novel PARANORMALCY, which was quite the splashy acquisition for HarperTeen, so congratulations Kiersten! She also used my brief overview of the publishing process for her own in depth (and hilarious) look at how a book gets published.
And finally finally, I always love reading about the path an author takes from unpublished to published, and Lisa Brackmann/Other Lisa has a great story.
Have a great weekend!
84 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 9/1/2009
Other Lisa - no - I didn't take it as crass at all! I took it as pragmatic and cooperative. And, it's good to see things from a distance.
Okay, I think I see what you were saying. You want to feel less.... vulnerable. That makes sense.
I just see alot of authors who get so 'bitten' by the business side of things, they start trying to 'produce' instead of 'create.' I think it's good to keep touch with both the practical and the heart of the thing.
Now, granted, I've never grappled with this myself, so I'm sort of making this all up. It also may not remotely relate to you. So, throw it out if it doesn't fit. :)
Either way, what a problem to be dealing with! I hope your success increases and you have to deal with it even more. :)
I think the sustainability debate just comes down to whether you more highly prize forest conservation and global warming or whether you're concerned about creating more plastic.
Even if people agree that cutting down forests is mostly a sustainable practice, there's still the matter of shipping all those books around the world and the resulting emissions.
I don't know, I think YA is getting insane these days. There's something to be said for realism, to be sure, and those issues should definitely be touched on--but really. Why are half of the books so graphic? You'd think the writers would harness their creativity and create some suspense and feeling without all the swear words and sex scenes.
RE: sustainability... more seriously, It's a catch 22 in some ways... we can do all we want to reduce that damn carbon footprint, but as long as population growth continues, this war cannot be won w/o a significant paradigm shift -- we have to reduce consumerism -- become a global culture more of necessity than desire... of course, this causes so many other problems (e.g., economic downfall) and would lead, potentially, to other apocalyptic events.
I'm kind of against overly gritty/sexy/violent YA books, but then, I was a really wimpy YA and am a pretty conservative person. And, Natalie, as to "there are books out there for every type of teen," I respect your opinion and understand what you mean about the choice part, but seriously, you have no idea what I went through in the YA section of the library trying to find something I could read w/o seriously regretting it. I failed. A lot. I read many things that made my life more difficult instead of less. I am a wimp, OK? :)
Question though: how precisely does one distinguish between young adult books and regular books besides the marketing? Is having teenage protagonists the one ultimately defining factor or are there other significant differences? Sounds basic, but I would like to hear a definition. Thoughts?
The Guardian book blog totally misunderstands Anne Fine, because the original report which the blog comments on reported her out of context. She was speaking to a group of social workers in Scotland and asking them about the effect that gritty YA literature has on the vulnerable children in their care. She wasn't deploring gritty realism, nor calling for more happy endings. It's sparked an interesting debate in the UK, but one based on twisted words. You can read my blog for more!
I'm with Hannah in being curious about YA and marketing. I've been wondering, since YA seems so "hot" now, if agents and editors are taking manuscripts that have young protagonists but are basically adult books with adult themes and slotting them in the YA market because that's what's selling? I mean, I know the category definitions are soft to start with, so there's always wiggle room, but I was wondering if that might be part of the equation in the increasingly graphic YA market (though I'm by no means an expert in that area). And if so, how much do you think it's changing the genre and its definition?
And as for the environment thing... I guess it comes down to Choose Your Own Apocalypse. And whichever one doesn't have cannibals is the one I'm choosing.
I read Anne Fine's article and can find nothing to argue with. The excerpts from the book are disturbingly unreadable (I started skimming part way through, so the words wouldn't etch themselves permanently in my brain).
Ms. Fine argues that if someone wants to publish this book, it should be as an adult read. This would give kids and parents the wise direction to investigate the book before opening its pages.
I don't think this is worth publishing, but to each his own. I second the comment of Ms. Fine: "Serial murderers do unspeakable things and even adult publishing houses face honourable resignations when they decide to publish graphic accounts."
I can never get enough of hearing how writers become published authors. It does happen and I enjoyed reading about Lisa's experiences. I know I've said it before, but Congratulations!
Congratulations to both Kiersten and Lisa! I enjoyed reading Lisa’s blog post when I discovered it through an announcement on Twitter. It was great reading about your writing journey, Lisa. It gave me hope.
I definitely think that realism has gone too far in children’s literature, as children often turn to books to learn about life and find role models. Also, teens are not young adults, and that ought to be kept in mind. The young adult world is, or at least should be, quite different from the adult world. When adults write for teenagers, I think they become mentors and take on a degree of moral responsibility. Teenagers who are ready to read more complex books have, in the past, read adult books; but that’s not the same as adults specifically marketing adult themes to teenagers.
As far as the Kindle and computers go, I’m all for saving trees, but horrified at how we’re illegally shipping electronic waste to third world countries where even children handle extremely toxic materials. The industrialized world’s current approach seems to be: out of sight, out of mind – meaning, if you take advantage of impoverished people but don’t see their suffering, then it’s OK. Here’s an article about it: Trash Talk – Why I Won’t Buy a Kindle Anytime Soon. I saw the first video, the CBS Sixty Minutes show, THE ELECTRONIC WASTELAND, when it was on TV. It’s eye-opening and well worth watching. My own personal view is that we should use computers, Kindles and all the rest of our electronic products that save paper, BUT we need to conscientiously find ways to safely recycle them.
Oooops. Typo. When I said, "The young adult world is, or at least should be, quite different from the adult world.", I meant to say: "The world of teenagers is, or at least should be, quite different from the adult world."
Hannah, I was a totally whimpy YA too. And I still avoid many books on the shelves because I am sensitive. What I usually do is look up reviews to see if I can handle a book. Or I go off friend recommendations.
But there is clean stuff out there, and it seems like people are wanting more of that now. So let's hope a balance will be found:)
From the Fast Company article about trees-vs-Kindle:
All paper books are responsible for some of the 125 million trees harvested by the book and magazine industries in 2007, but shipped books are still twice as carbon efficient as books bought in the mall or the local bookstore.
Thought that final clause was very interesting -- about shipped-to-customer books vs. shipped-to-retailer. I wonder if that's because, despite volume discounts and such, the brick-and-mortar shipping costs include a LOT more returns than the virtual ones?
I also like the way the first statistic mentions magazine as well as book publishers. If our mail is any indication, about 40% of the paper used by the magazine pubs is in the form of subscription offers, blow-in cards, and co-marketing (and re-co-marketing) with the likes of Publishers Clearinghouse.
Congrats Kiersten - that's awesome! I also loved reading Lisa's road to publication.
As far as the YA thing, I've worked with hundreds of incarcerated teens, and they may be involved with gangs, drugs, and assorted other "non-clean" activities, but they've taught me almost as much as I've taught them. Their stories may not be classified as "wholesome" but they are some of the most amazing kids I've had the privilege of working with - great things don't always come in pretty wrappers.
Nathan, I haven't yet invested in a e-reader. Maybe someday. I do read a lot on my computer through pdf files. Downside, you can't lug the computer everywhere to read it.
Enjoyed the links, Nathan, thanks.
Like Kiersten, I appreciate being part of your blog and the shout out for Lisa's article on my blog. I will be reading her book, which really goes without saying. She's a wonderful writer. :-)
Julie, I agree that some teens do that. But there are also some who don't. I think it's unfair to imply that a writer isn't writing authentically if they choose not to feature those aspects of teen life.
Young adults are so individual, and we can't assume they are all one way or another. There should be books for every kid out there. "Prudes" included.
I'm trying to be a YA writer and I also teach 8th grade English, and I do worry about the realism in YA fiction.
Yes, it's true that many teens have sex and do drugs and lie and swear. But I wonder how much of that you actually have to depict in your writing. One of my favorite YA novels is SPEAK by Laurie Halse Anderson. It deals with rape in a powerful way without depicting anything terribly graphic.
I was thinking the other day about writer ethics--about the dual responsibility an author has: our writing should depict reality accurately, but our writing also has the power to shape reality. By graphically depicting something, is it possible we're also encouraging it by making it seem normal?
Yes, I agree we need books for the less rebellious teens but either way you're going to have to describe a contrasting character.
"The girl who sleeps around" joins the "prude girl's" study group
or the "goody, goody" main character will describe a boy smokes in the bathroom or set the principals car on fire or something and maybe they have to make a decision about whether they will rat them out or not.
The issues will have to be there in some form. But like you described, I like my characters to have redeeming qualities but there has to be conflict?
Has the sex and violence in children's literature gone too far or do we benefit from authors delving into the difficult areas of teen life?
Anyone who thinks we're being too rough with kids and their delicate sensibilities has probably only seen the Disney fairytales.
Maybe I'm a cynic. The world is tough, and stories are a safe, controlled environment in which we can help them learn how to navigate a world that isn't as lovely as we'd like it to be.
That said, sex/violence that are simply put in for the shock factor are no good. They, like all pieces of a story, must be put in for a good reason.
Nathan, thanks for the great links. I appreciated Jessica Faust's take on plagiarism. I haven't worried about plagiarism since I started editing and realized how hard it is to polish a novel. I'd almost be happy to see someone take my idea and make it shine (not really, but it could be flattering, in a certain light) I slay newbie fears in a fun post on my blog- http://kaykaybe.blogspot.com/2009/08/im-waiting-for-my-check.html
My bad: What is the difference between YA and adult? (essentially my question) is in the FAQs. http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2007/02/dude-looks-like-ya.html
And Natalie, seeing your other posts today I think we pretty much agree. It is just that the YA section at the local library, which my sheltered self traveled without the lovely guidance you refer to having, kinda scarred me and so this is a sensitive issue for me. Cheers!
I do think that currently the balance is too much in favor of the grittier stuff.
I am all for saving trees and the environment but there's just something about holding a book in my hands and feeling the pages slip beneath my fingers...and then there's always the day when I go back to reread a book and come across a page stained with....what is it? coffee or chocolate? and remember where I was in my life when I last read the book!
The question people aren't asking re: Kindle vs. book sustainability is, how much electricity does it take to power a kindle? I'm willing to bet that most of that electricity is gained by burning fossil fuels, since that's the leading source of electricity in America atm... and the burning of fossil fuels emits CO2 and CO2-like emissions just as much as shipping a plane of books.
You'd also have to take into consideration the recycling programs available, where the component parts of each (kindle and book) are being manufactured and the manufacturing guidelines imposed by those countries (where do they dump their waste?), the materials used in each (PVCs? Heavy metals?) and the biodegradability of the materials. Among other things that I can't think of right now but could probably list if given enough time.
So saying, "The Kindle is better because there's less shipping involved" is really a superficial statement.
/envi sci nerd
About YA vs. adult fic: A good rule of thumb is, "If coming-of-age is an/the important plot point, it's YA." But there are exceptions. It's a real pain.
OH! And also, probably, at the end of all of that research, you'd end up with something like the paper vs. cloth diaper conundrum: both are bad for the environment. Just choose the one that makes you feel better and wait for a better option to present itself.
Mark David Chapman shot John Lennon after listening to the song "Helter Skelter" over and over again.
Blaming edgy YA writers for children who emulate book characters is like blaming The Beatles for getting John Lennon shot.
Art is messy and dirty and sometimes has consequences. But we can't censor it because it gives people bad ideas.
And YA and children's books are just NOT the same thing, and they need to stop being treated as one entity.
Anonymous said, on 8/28/2009 10:21:00 PM
This conversation concerning YA literature disturbs me. With all due respect, some of the comments posted contain thoughts that, for me, hint at censorship.
When I was a junior in high school, we were assigned Crime & Punishment by my pre-AP English teacher. I was 16. The book graphically describes murder by axe, and guess what? I've read the novel a dozen times since and I still don't think that murdering someone with an axe is normal.
The fact is that "teens" are human beings, nothing more, nothing less, and should be treated as such. They aren't babies, or infantile, or stupid. They have sex, they cuss, they drink and they smoke with the same frequency (if not more) than adults do.
And frankly, this comment: "You'd think the writers would harness their creativity and create some suspense and feeling without all the swear words and sex scenes."
Offended me completely. I am a writer for "teens" and my writing contains characters who swear, drink, and have sex. Can't writing contain those elements and still have suspense and feeling?
Hanna, I agree that it's pointless to blame authors if kids emulate their stories. Artists have a responsibility to truth. I'm just wondering if artists also have a responsibility to morality. (That's an open-ended question, not an answer.)
Also, I think we too easily fall into this false dichotomy that an author either has to be a "prude" and have characters that are all perfect little christians or be "realistic" and include graphic violence and sex and tons of profanity. (I put "realistic" in quotes because, for example, I never got drunk in high-school, so I think it's disingenuous to pretend that ALL teens do that.)
Is it possible to effectively deal with gritty teen themes without being overly explicit?
I wouldn't ever suggest censoring other people's writing. I like Chris Crutcher's stuff (loved WHALE TALK, and that had a main character that swore and had talked about his sex life.) As an aspiring YA author, I'm just trying to figure out what kind of writer I want to be. I don't think anyone should tell you that your writing is somehow unacceptable because of the things you portray.
Nathan - Yeah, I see that now that I've clicked around a couple of pages beyond the article you linked. I was trying to point out that the discussion of the pros and cons of buying a kindle should go beyond transportation-related emissions and cutting down trees. :)
I'd still like to know about recycling and PVCs and the stuff I talked about in my second paragraph, since the cleantech article I read (this one here: http://cleantech.com/news/4867/cleantech-group-finds-positive-envi ) didn't specify what they meant about the "life cycle" of a kindle. If "life cycle" means from the very beginning of manufacture to its disposal, then that's fantastic. If the Kindle not only reduces emissions, and its manufacture is bereft of toxic waste as a by-product, it's even better. But the information I've found doesn't spell it out. And unfortunately I can't actually access the study.
Of course it is. But it shouldn't be a requirement or even an expectation.
In my book, BREAK, the main character drinks two beers at one point to calm his nerves. He smokes one cigarette, at one point, to look cool. That is the extent of the drinking and smoking in the book. No drug use. So I wrote a book without a lot of drinking or drugs.
But I have a *ton* of cursing and a ton of self-destructive behavior (it's a book about a boy breaking all his bones). That's closer to my high school experience than getting drunk at parties, but, more importantly, those were what worked for the story.
If your book doesn't need sex, don't put it in, but if needs it, don't take it out because you're worried teenagers will go out and start banging each other. Really. I'm eighteen, I know what I'm talking about--we're influenced a hell of a lot more by our friends and what we see in our real lives than we are by fictional characters whose motivations we can accurately see, understand, judge, and ultimately evaluate.
If a kid goes out after reading my book and tries to break all his bones, he read the book wrong.
Including something in a book is not the same as advocating it. So unless I read a YA book and the overall message is something to the effect of "drugs will solve all your problems," or "you can't get STDs from oral sex," I can't see myself having a problem with any YA book going "too far."
According to this article's citations of the Cleantech study, the study took into account the kindle's emissions and waste including all the mining and manufacture. There's also a neat little graph and more data.
Also found an article, which I lost and am too lazy to find again because I really should be asleep right now, that said that the fact that the kindle does not use a backlight gives it an edge to reading on your laptop or iPhone.
So, in summary, I think the kindle looks pretty good. I think we'll have a more definitive answer as to it's environmentally-friendlyness (ugh that was awful) in a few years, once more studies are conducted and we see how effective amazon's recycling program is.
Rose said, on 8/28/2009 11:17:00 PM
Okay. You got me all kindled up with your recent posts on readers and I had a DUH moment!
The historical research I do requires quickly scanning through thousands of pages of WWII and Cold War .pdf files from various archival sources. OF COURSE I need a reader! Why didn't I think of that before?
A day of research has turned up the Foxit eslick for $260 with all imaginable accessories included. Before they went into the reader business, Foxit created .pdf reader and editor software, and their device is supposed to be the very best one for handling .pdf files. And it has a white, not gray background screen!
Bless you, Nathan. May you have a filled with front row seats at all your favorite sporting events.
Rose said, on 8/28/2009 11:21:00 PM
"May you have a filled with front row seats at all your favorite sporting events."
That should read "future filled with..."
It's late. I have .pdf eyeballs. I need a reader.
Anonymous said, on 8/28/2009 11:33:00 PM
I don't get why books don't have ratings...movies and video games have em. Why not.
Anon does raise a good point. I'll probably rant about it on a blog somewhere. My guess is it has something to do with books being, you know, literature, and the doorway to unhindered progress and all. But what makes a movie, or maybe even a videogame, not capable of the same things? The visual? Masters of the craft make a book preeettty visual...
Hannah: I don't think its "wimpy" to not want to read a gritty/sexy novel as a teen. It shows "upstanding moral fiber" to quote Ron Weasley. Not all teenagers are alike in how they view the world, jsut as not all romance readers like the same kind of romance.
But, I pretty much have to agree with Marilyn on the subject of "research" for the more sensitive reader. Especially in the children's/YA section. I'm not well-read in the YA genre, but I can't believe ALL YA writers are portraying only teens having sex, doing drugs, drinking and using vile language. At the writer's conference I went to, and the online workshop I took, I met several people writing YA who addressed the issues without vulgarity.
These novels are out there, and they are housed in the YA section, but you have to look for them. Not too hard, I think either.
Just my two cents. ............dhole
Anonymous said, on 8/29/2009 3:24:00 AM
I don't think the sex and violence are necessarily too much for children, but I do think that adding them eliminates some of the distinctions between YA (or children's) literature and adult literature that justify having a separate genre for kids. The difference was never just the reading level to begin with.
I'd much rather have kids reading Anais Nin (or de Sade, for that matter) than Junie B. Jones Does Juneau. Frankly, my tendency has always been to bump kids out of youth sections as soon as possible because 1.) it makes them feel smarter and 2.)it gives them more common ground with society as a whole (rather than the one or two years of people who happen to be exactly 10 and a half the year that particular kid's book was released.)
So, my thought is this: If granny can't go into the bookstore and feel comfortable buying YA for their sweet, virginal grandson or daughter, these authors are not only dooming the kids to another year of socks and underwear, they are shooting themselves in the feet.
As a mom, I need to put a quick comment here about YA lit.
The reason that parents don't want their kids focusing too much on dark themes is not that we are trying to isolate them or treat them like babies.
It's because young adulthood is already full of a lot of angst and confusion and really negative feelings about oneself.
The question is: are you going to feed that cycle of negativity by focusing on a lot of self-destructive feelings and behaviors, or are you going to try to encourage your child to find positive, uplifting entertainment that will help them get out of the teen doldrums?
I got an email yesterday... one of those things that goes around... which was really profound. It was an Indian legend about how we all have two wolves struggling inside of us. "One is envy, sorrow, resentment, fear," etc. and one is "joy, peace, love, hope, serenity," etc.
The one that wins the struggle is the one we feed.
What are we feeding our minds and hearts... at any age? That is going to at least partly determine how we view and respond to ourselves and to the world.
I'm not saying that young adults shouldn't be exposed to anything negative, but that it should be done thoughtfully, with care and perspective.
As well, there are issues that adolescents simply aren't emotionally equipped to handle. They need to be reserved for later, as a lot of teens will brag 'Yeah, sure, I can handle it' but then end up having nightmares and secret phobias. I know, because I saw how our school's Holocaust curriculum affected my 8th graders. It was too intense, and very traumatizing for them.
I'm strongly opposed to the idea of exposing kids to stuff just for the sake of exposure. I don't see that it is helpful to them in any way.
But if you include some coping skills or guidelines, perhaps in the form of a mentoring character, then it can be a teaching tool.
Having a peer relate their own experience is also very helpful, I think, even though it may not include the corresponding life skills or perspective an adult could provide.
I went to bed last night still mulling this over, but you nailed the idea I was grasping at. It's important to help teens deal positively with issues like rape and drugs and self-destructive behaviors. We can't shelter them from that. But at the same time, we can't deny that what we feed our minds does influence our view of ourselves and the world around us. In my writing, I want to find that balance where I can deal with tough adult issues in a positive, constructive way. Because as adults writing stories for younger people, I do think we have a responsibility to write about this stuff is a way that teaches them how to deal with the rough sides of life rather than just "exposing" them to the rough sides of life.
Anonymous, the idea of content ratings on books is fascinating. That has me thinking...
And Hannah, I didn't realize you were so young. (Don't take that as condescending--I'm trying to compliment you). That's awesome that you're eighteen and writing. I wish I had started ten years earlier than I did. This is the teacher in me talking, but I'd be ecstatic if I could get my students to think anywhere close to your level.
lauren said, on 8/29/2009 9:36:00 AM
So, my thought is this: If granny can't go into the bookstore and feel comfortable buying YA for their sweet, virginal grandson or daughter, these authors are not only dooming the kids to another year of socks and underwear, they are shooting themselves in the feet.
And yet! Somehow, despite all of this foot-shooting, YA remains a bright spot in an otherwise dismal time for the publishing industry. New lines are opening (Harlequin Teen, Egmont USA) and Borders is all but betting the farm on their teen-focused Borders Ink sections. So SOMEONE is buying these books, and enjoying then, and going back and buying more. And despite my rabid YA book-buying habit, I know it can't just be me.
lauren said, on 8/29/2009 9:47:00 AM
quoting Arik: "Is it possible to effectively deal with gritty teen themes without being overly explicit?"
Yes. And I think this is what many books already do! By the time this year's over, I will have read about 100 YA novels in 2009 -- and just as many last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. And of the books that do deal with "issues," the vast majority hit at the emotional resonance of said issue without being gratuitous in terms of graphic content.
But the real fact is, YA readers don't really tolerate "issue" books much these days (if they ever did!). What YA readers want is AWESOME STORIES with amazing characters -- and because the YA imprints have morphed the category into something really alive and wonderful and entertaining, and, yes, catering to teens with all kinds of needs and comfort levels, it's sold big for the latter half of this decade.
(There was a fab discussion about this topic on Verla Kay's Blue Boards this last week. I believe you have to be registered to view it in the YA sub-forum -- but, really, if you're interested in writing YA, there's no reason NOT to be registered there!)
My issue with YA literature really comes from being a librarian at a Middle School. It's a tough job to purchase and shelve books for kids that are 11-13, especially the girls. They want to be reading everything from the YA shelves at the local bookstore, but really, that set of books is not geared for them. YA is intended for ages 14-18, right? There is certainly a maturity difference in those two age groups. I run into problems all the time with girl books...where is the line drawn?
I say to parents all the time that my job is to make books accessible, their job is to make sure it's appropriate for their family. Parents think that I should know ALL their values and only check out books to their kids that would meet the criteria. One parent said to me, "If my child can't swear at school, I don't feel you should have this book in the library, since there are swear words." WOW. Do they know what the child is watching on TV? Watch one episode of Gossip Girl with your daughter and you won't be worried about books anymore.
I agree that teens are probably doing all that is depicted in YA books and more, and many of the lessons are important, but for the kids in the middle grades, there is very little out there that meets both the cool factor and isn't too immature.
I have just finished writing my own YA novel with this in mind...thinking about my middle schoolers and including what they want, but not too much of it.
And there is a double standard in literature as well. Sex is taboo, but excessive violence isn't an issue with parents. I never have parents complain about that!
I also don't believe I ever used the word "wimpy"...
Books about intense subjects have never made me more depressed. I don't read to escape, I read to have my hand held. And heavy young adult books were an immense comfort to me as a teenager.
If you're an angsty teenager and the whole world is telling you to cheer up, that these are the best days of your life, sometimes the most uplifting, therapeutic thing a book can say is: YOU ARE NORMAL.
I'd like to link here, where Sophie talks about the difference between different levels of "children's books." Please read if you're confused about the distinction between young children's books/MG/YA
Sissy, you touched on it yourself. Your middle schoolers are not the target age for YA. The genre doesn't need to extend to fit them, because they already have a genre for them. MG is geared towards children 11-13. Those are the books about kids in middle school.
You said: I have just finished writing my own YA novel with this in mind...thinking about my middle schoolers and including what they want, but not too much of it.
If your "YA" novel is written with a middle school mentality, there's a good chance it's actually MG.
Thanks to Hannah for that link to Sophie's explanation of the various groupings in Children's Literature. It is helpful to know what should and shouldn't be included. I just wish there was more out there for MG readers, but maybe I am not looking in all the right places. The girls see all the pretty and flashy covers on the YA novels and want to read them. From a librarian standpoint, that is an issue. From a writing standpoint, I completely understand wanting to make things realistic for today's kids.
Maybe that's the problem. When I was a teenager, my world was very different from what a 12 year old will encounter today.
lauren said, on 8/29/2009 10:32:00 AM
hannah: "If you're an angsty teenager and the whole world is telling you to cheer up, that these are the best days of your life, sometimes the most uplifting, therapeutic thing a book can say is: YOU ARE NORMAL."
Yes x 1 million.
When I was a teen (early - mid 90s), my library's YA section contained paperback horror (not my thing), squeaky-clean teen romances, and moral-heavy issue books. All I wanted in a YA book was someone to agree with me that high was was not particularly awesome, and that it was okay for me to be unhappy sometimes, and that it was okay that I wasn't searching for my true love, and oh yeah, to acknowledge that if I happened to drink ONE BEER at a party (which I never did, btw) I wouldn't DIE.
Mostly what I did was read The Catcher in the Rye over and over (and I didn't ever run away from school or take up smoking).
I am so so so glad that YA today really tries to represent the full gamut of teen emotions and philosophies. And I think that's why I'm addicted to reading and writing it.
(Great link from Yapping About YA, too. I'll refer people to that in the future.)
Well, it looks like I may have to consider jumping on the eReader wagon soon :P Just waiting for the prices to go down. And my former employer OverDrive partnered with Sony Reader just a few weeks ago, making it to where I would be able to use the Reader for eBooks from the library, which was huge selling point for me.
Perhaps I'll ask for one for Christmas...:)
lauren said, on 8/29/2009 10:35:00 AM
Oops, typo:
"All I wanted in a YA book was someone to agree with me that high was was not particularly awesome"
that high SCHOOL was not particularly awesome
(which it wasn't)
Hey Sissy -- I think "tween" is a growing category within kidlit. For girls, especially. Look at some of Lauren Myracle's novels (Eleven, Twelve, and Thirteen), and pretty much anything published by the Aladdin MIX imprint. Great stuff that tackles middle school problems but resembles YA in packaging more than it does MG.
I imagine lots of these early version e-readers will end up in landfills as improved new versions come out, but printed books are recyclable. Out of 50 books I read, I might keep one. I pass them on to friends, family, or donate them to our local used bookstore (that sells them for charity), or donate them to church/school/public library rummage sales, and so on. My sons' colleges have bins where textbooks that they can't sell back will be sent overseas to countries where they will be given to students who can't afford to buy them.
I've always liked the idea of rating books and CDs -- not so much for censorship, but for easier perusal (e.g., so, if you're searching for a book for an LDS member, you can readily delineate w/o having to go to some sort of website/list that shows approved books, or if you're looking for a beach read -- not only rate them on content, but also on readability).
Of course, the problem with this is the same problem we have w/ the MPAA -- the ratings are somewhat arbitrary (e.g., sex is more stringently rated than violence, though most would probably agree that violence is a more negative attribute)... and books tend to have more thematic gray area than most movies.
A question (for Nathan or anyone else): Does anyone have stats showing the percentage of books bought by customers based on how many books they read/buy per year?
On account of the discussion here, I've been wondering about e-readers and books and how the future might play out. I can see why people working in publishing would love an e-reader, as well as writers and readers who have huge libraries and are constantly reading. But then there are people who only read a book or two a year. I can't imagine an e-reader would make any sense for such people (certainly not in large numbers, anyway). So I started wondering what percentage of the market these people would make up.
For example, I just had a customer at my little store who reads Danielle Steel. And only Danielle Steel. She'd never even heard of Nora Roberts. So, once a year or whatever she picks up a Danielle Steel and reads it. Lots of customers will do same with, say, James Patterson. Lots of people will read one book a year on vacation. So, as individuals they don't buy many books... but as a group they buy a whole lot. From my subjective experience (owning a store) there's a lot of readers like this. Casual readers, the sort who wouldn't be in the market for an e-reader (most likely). I have a core of serious readers, regulars at my shop, but the rest is with people who just get a book here or there. But this is kind of subjective...
So, are there stats out there? Book market share for people who read 1 book a year, and then 2-5 books a year, 6-10, 10-20, 20-50, etc.? I wonder if such stats might help predict the future balance of paper and e-books.
Well, I figure someone must have done this sort of market ananlysis. Who are the readers? I mean, you don't reach a once-a-year shopper the same way you reach a fulltime book-hound. Right? Or am I overly optimistic here?
I imagine marketers probably focus on the tweeners -- the once-a-year/one-author-follower types don't bring in enough coin to waste time/money on and the market hounds probably would come Hell or high water, regardless of marketing (and given internet WOM from readers and writers, marketing heavily to this group doesn't make too much sense)...
Going back to your original question, I think the data's out there for the percentage of books vs type of reader, at least roughly. Assuming it were legal (which it's probably not), you could cull the data from credit card purchases and interpolate from there...
Also thinking that Amazon/Sony etc. must have done some sort of market research to determine amoritization timeline (though Amazon's intent right now may be more influence related than profit)... guessing it'd be easier to get data from the credit card companies than from those behemoths, though.
If anyone wants to try a hand at writing a short Fairy Tale I'm having a contest on my blog...(speaking of contests). It's just for fun and I put up $30.00 for the winner. Check the blog for details... Some people have already submitted entries.
"Well, I figure someone must have done this sort of market analysis."
Bryan, market anaylsis in publishing? I don't get the sense that happens much.
But I imagine that the switch to electronic will be driven by the more avid readers, who make up the market. Just like with CDs and DVDs, the ones who bought 1 movie or 1 album a year were forced to follow the trend.
On the other hand, I believe there will always be a market for paper books in a way that there isn't for records or VHS.
Although, in terms of the environmental issues, after some thought, I do think that global warming is a more alarming and current problem than plastics. But I also see a whole industry based upon it, so I get the complications. Fortunately there's lots of time to adjust to the electronic - if it happens.
I think there's one big difference between the book business and the music and movie businesses, and that's that all the forms in the latter businesses require players. It's the difference between one expensive player and another: Walkman or CD Player or iPod in music, and VHS or DVD or BlueRay in movies. Books is different. E-readers are a big investment. But paper books, unlike tapes or VHS movies, require no players. Paper books need nothing but themselves. They're like a tape that can play itself.
Can you really get millions of people to spend $300.00 on an e-reader for one book a year? Trade a $6.00 purchase for a $306.00 purchase (for the same reading value)? If they force a change they may simply lose a lot of readers... in an industry already worried about losing readers.
I struggle to see that, at least in the remotely near future, particularly if those occasional readers hold a fairly large market share.
I'm personally really excited about getting an iPhone, because it's a device I need for other reasons (my old smart phone's impending death) AND it's an eReader. I think for most people, multi-purpose devices will be their entry into eBooks.
I agree with Other Lisa, Bryan, and I also think the price will go down for e-readers as the demand goes up.
Sort of like computers. How can anyone survive in this day and age without one? Even if they use it occasionally, there are cheap ones, used ones, or in a pinch, one can use one at the library or a cafe. They used to cost thousands of dollars a pop.
I do think you're right, though, Bryan, that books will never disappear in the same way as records, because of the technology issue. But the technology and manpower needed to produce paper books is expensive - more expensive than e-books.
I don't know. It may not happen. But I think it's likely. Of course, we may be talking a decade or more here, I don't know.
I do think multi-tasking devices will be what cause the largest increases - will everyone really start reading on their phones, though? I'm not certain of that. I'm guessing that will take a generational change, at least - a slow process. And even then...
Certainly I think e-books will play a bigger and bigger role. How big and how fast...? That's why I'd like to see those marketing stats. Who are the readers out there, and what are the buying patterns? And how conducive are those patterns to the emerging technologies?
Young Adult titles should be safe, but more than that parents just need to be aware. Know what's out there and what messages your kids are receiving. You will never be able to control a genre, so keep your eyes open. You make sure they are getting the right messages. You put before them the books that you think will be of benefit. And if you are a writer, you write the books that you think will be of benefit. That being said there are more tasteful, tactful ways of going about such subject matter.
On another note, look at movie ratings. Why is there not a rating system for books if this issue continues to be prevalent? Put a notice on the cover regarding content. There are great messages to be had in a lot of books that contain such content, but fair warning would go a long way so that you can make the choice yourself as parent or even young adult. I hate running into that kind of material out of the blue without any idea that it was coming, but with movies that warning is easily accessible. It helps you to sift through those movies right from the beginning. I'd love to be able to do that more easily with books. Let them write what they want and label it what they want, but we should be able to see the label clearly regarding content, not just genre.
I think book labeling (tiny, on the back bottom corner or something) might be a good idea, always have thought that should be tried, as long as creators have a say on the labels. I like that movie contents are labeled now, so I can avoid very violent ones.
I've never hid that my writing often contains explicit sex and language. What's the point in hiding this, letting easily-offended-over-sex people buy it, when they'll later feel angry about the contents, and maybe share that anger in customer reviews somewhere? I want people to enjoy my work, not feel sorry they'd read it.
Plot spoiling I don't like, for my own writing or for anyone else's, but beforehand I'd prefer knowing what extreme content art will show as I can't stand reading/viewing some contents.
"If you're an angsty teenager and the whole world is telling you to cheer up, that these are the best days of your life, sometimes the most uplifting, therapeutic thing a book can say is: YOU ARE NORMAL."
Hannah, I totally agree with you on this, and I don't mean to imply that eveyone should be reading "Little House on the Prairie" their whole life.
But on the flip side, if it is just constant violence, sex, and tragedy, that doesn't help either. It just makes your own life seem that much worse, like there is no end to the tunnel and you'll never get out. At least, I know that's how I felt at that age, and still feel sometimes.
When handling difficult topics, there has to be some sort of growth and/or redemption, and some ultimately positive outcome, even if it's a small one, or it's just too depressing.
At least I know that's true for me. Perhaps I'm too engrossed in imaginary worlds, but I find that the books I read drastically affect my moods for at least a few days after I've read them.
"And there is a double standard in literature as well. Sex is taboo, but excessive violence isn't an issue with parents. I never have parents complain about that!"
Sissy, I am very aware of the violence factor as well as sex, and monitor my son's reading material closely. I've even contacted Lego Magazine about the Bioncle comics they include in some issues, which I think are too extreme for young kids.
And, I've alerted friends to violence in the books they are reading. There was one book a friend's middle-schooler was reading, I forget what it was now, some fantasy about Wind-Singers? Anyway, they were burning people alive in part of the story. And slaughtering women, children and old people who couldn't keep up on a forced march. She was horrified! She had no idea that was in there.
The only reason I knew about it was that I picked the book up and started reading it at her house.
Ratings on books would be fantastic for schools. I work in a library of a Middle School in a very conservative community. We are always concerned about what the content is. Using tax payer funds, I think we would feel safe in purchasing books with some sort of system. If we have read every book in the library then we are okay, but that just isn't possible most of the time. Sometimes we purchase a book and get it in to find material not suited for their age. This can be a problem.
Technology will take us where it will, trees or not, but I'm just sad you didn't fall all over my query letter, begging me to hand deliver the whole manuscript! LOL
lauren said, on 8/30/2009 9:25:00 PM
Christine H., you said:
"When handling difficult topics, there has to be some sort of growth and/or redemption, and some ultimately positive outcome, even if it's a small one, or it's just too depressing."
But! The hopeful ending is absolutely a hallmark of current YA. In the last few years that I've been attending SCBWI conferences, it's the one thing you can always count on the editors to say about YA: you MUST have a hopeful ending. And the stuff that's been published in the category this decade bears that out. The last really nihilistic YA stuff I read was written by Robert Cormier in the 1970s.
Even some of the more downbeat stuff I've read over the past few years -- I'm thinking of Sherman Alexie's Part-Time Indian, Laurie Halse Anderson's Wintergirls, and Mary Pearson's A Room On Lorelei Street -- ends with the protagonist coming into his / her own, finding hope, finding a new beginning.
Definitely. I'd hazard to say that most dark books have some hope in their ends, but YA especially.
lauren said, on 8/30/2009 9:59:00 PM
Also, re: book rating systems (and then I'll shut my trap and go back to my WIP b/c I'm sure this comment box is sick of me).
There is so much information out there about books these days, and I see this with YA in particular. It amazes me how much easier it is to find information about any given book compared to how things were even two years ago. Between Amazon, Goodreads, LibraryThing, Shelfari, and the proliferation of book review blogs, I can become an expert on practically any YA novel out there without ever having read it. (Not really the recommended way to experience literature, but...) To me at least, this negates the need for a content advisory / rating system. Trust me, if you can't find the answer to a book-content-related question through a quick Google Blog Search, you can shoot a quick e-mail or comment to one of the bloggers who reviewed the book, and I'm sure they'll provide you with the information you need.
Not only that, but there are tons of blogs I've seen that review "clean" books and make recommendations with regard to a given book's content.
There's no reason today that anyone would have to be surprised by a book's content (unless you've been purposely avoiding spoilers!). All the info is out there.
Lauren, you're right that anybody who performs proper research can determine the contents of most books nowadays; however,some people don't have those resources, some people don't have the time, and, as evinced by political reactionism, many people are too indolent to perform due diligence.
I read the story about Other Lisa which was fantastic. I was wondering--she said that you had her do several revisions before you took her on as a client--how long did that take? I've had a few agents who love my book but think it needs revisions. They say they are "close" to taking me on as a client. However, thus far the process has taken 3 and a half years. Not because I don't immediately do the revisions but because as you well know, agents are superbusy and since I'm NOT a client, I am last on their list. That's okay with me, I'm just glad to be in the running at all. I was just wondering from an agent's perspective--is there a time frame that you think is TOO long for me to be waiting it out?
In personal agenting news, I received some great news this week about one of the projects I recently handled: Audible announced that none other than Parker Posey is narrating the new audiobook of Betty Friedan's feminist classic THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE. Pretty cool.
It's apparently Google's turn in front of the firing squad this week as the Google Settlement was criticized first by William Morris Endeavor in not one but two letters (to which the Author's Guild issued not one but two rebuttals), and meanwhile, Microsoft, Amazon, and Yahoo announced that they were aligning against the Google settlement. Rising to Google's defense was a Washington Post Op-Ed titled..... "Google's Offer on Digitized Books Could Be Better." Despite that headline the Wash-Po mainly thinks it's a good deal.
NPR recently featured a new interactive book experiment by authors JC Hutchins and Jordan Weisman, published by St. Martin's. To accompany their new novel PERSONAL EFFECTS: DARK ART, they're including phone numbers and web links that provide an additional interactive experience. I'd be very curious to know what people think about this. (via David Moldawer)
Dan Brown's THE LOST SYMBOL is dropping in September, and already some quarters of the publishing industry are wringing their hands that it could be the End of Publishing As We Know It. Since Doubleday is releasing the e-book simultaneously with the print book, some think it will trigger a significant shift to e-books (hat tip to Neil Vogler for the link), while former PW editor Sara Nelson dubbed it a "book killer" and found lots of people in the biz worried that the hoopla about THE LOST SYMBOL will drown out news about books by other (massively bestselling) authors. EW's Shelf Life is all too happy to poke fun at the notion that a surefire bestseller can be considered a menace to the industry: "No wonder book publishers are in such dire straits. They even panic at the prospect of a big hit!"
Jofie Ferrari-Adler just completed the latest entry in his incredible series of interviews, this time with veteran agent Georges Borchardt, who, over the years, has, along with his wife and daughter, represented the likes of Samuel Beckett, Aldous Huxley, T.C. Boyle, Ian McEwan, and many many more. People often wonder how the industry has really changed over the years, and Borchardt has a wonderfully balanced take (and he should know).
Also in Jeff Abbott news, he wrote a great guest post at Jen's Book Thoughts about the doors that writing has opened up. It's a really eloquent personal take on the writing process.
In writing advice news, my wonderful client Jennifer Hubbard has a truly insightful post on conflict: while you often hear that you must have conflict, sometimes the best way to build tension is to have your characters avoid conflict with each other.
Almost finally, ladies and gentlemen, as a front page article in the Wall Street Journal attests, there is a scourge sweeping my hometown and greater Colusa County. No, not meth. No, not tractor-battery burglary. Not even gas siphoning. It is the diabolical, evil fiends otherwise known as crayfish poachers. And yes, in case you are wondering, that really is where I grew up, and yes, that really was on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. Also we call them crawdads.
And finally, finally, I won't embed this video as it is decidedly not workplace friendly, and you should not click the link if you have an aversion to Rated R language. But given how much we talk about "The Wire" around these parts, I know some of you enjoy love this completely hilarious YouTube video: The Wire with a laugh track.
Have a great weekend!
47 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 8/25/2009
I want a portable laugh track machine to take into meetings at work. There are so many great eye rolls and heavy sighs that don't get the recognition they deserve.
Thank you so much for this post. I just read the interview with Molly on Market My Words. It was fabulous and overflowing with great information. You can tell she loves her job, knows her stuff and wants people to succeed. Very motivating. Thanks again.
Anonymous said, on 8/21/2009 3:03:00 PM
Thanks for that interview with Georges Borchardt...
Nathan, Thanks so much for the link on conflict. It is something I am currently struggling with, and now (after receiving a note from my agent suggesting some changes before submitting to publishers) I find my storyline involves arguing for the sake of arguing.
"Sigh"...back to the computer for another weekend of rewrites.
Although I was pretty young when I watched, about the only episode I can remember of The Beverly Hillbillies is when granny gets arrested because she's planning to "smoke crawdads." The BH cops asked her how she did that and she said, "First you have to get a little pot."
Interactive Master said, on 8/21/2009 3:23:00 PM
Mira,
You should start a blog where people can interact with characters. It would increase your standing with us, the interactive overlords.
Rose said, on 8/21/2009 3:38:00 PM
Thanks, Nathan. Great news for you and great links for us.
I love the interactive idea. It's not for every story, but it has its place. I can even see how one oould get dual mileage out of creating an interactive version of an in-print book.
For example, the memoir we are working on comes complete with a forum full of subject aficionados interested in either replicating the science, or in documenting our covert NRO scientist's role in some really really black projects.
Over a several year period we have accrued numerous threads, all with external reference links. and the depth and breath of this material is far beyond the scope of a memoir But all of it would lend itself well to the creation of an interactive media project about his life and work.
As I think further about the dual purpose idea, it seems to me that video book trailers are the first step toward achieving this type of dual presence.
Jen P said, on 8/21/2009 3:43:00 PM
Google's also getting it from this individual..."Scott E Gant, an author and partner at Boies Schiller & Flexner, a prominent Washington law firm, has launched what is being described as the "most direct attack" yet on the Google Books Settlement." (The Bookseller -20.08)
The book being promoted through web links and phone numbers--like an alternate reality game--reminds me of the games the producers of the television show "LOST" use to keep fans hungry between seasons. I like it, although I'm not sure a treasure hunt like this will draw in a lot of potential readers. It's usually a gimmick to stoke an already-loyal fan base, and to keep them thinking of your product between installments.
Crawdads, huh? Thanks to Google translate, on the English translation of a German restaurant menu I was at last week, they were referred to as "Rivercancertails." Mmmm...
Thanks for the links. I'll look thru over the weekend. Sorry texting on Blackberry again.
I did hear the NPR interview (at least the intro) and I really loved the idea. I personally wouldn't be into the interactive part but some fans would and that's all that matters. Some people enjoy being a part of a really cool story. As for the packet in the front of the book with drivers license, etc, I think that is terrific.
When I read THE DA VINCI CODE I know I liked that I happened to have an artbook on Da Vinci and just seeing those pantings to look at made it seem more interesting.
Thanks for these links! The Borchardt interview was terrific, and I highlight the following as one of many insights.
"...one of the admirable things about writers is that they really know they're writers. I mean, any normal human being would just give up. Why would you do something that nobody wants? But they do, and they have this sort of inner feeling."
Anonymous said, on 8/21/2009 6:11:00 PM
So that's what a crawdad is! Thanks for the homework - I mean very helpful and informative links I will be reading this weekend when I'm not writing. Have a great weekend!
Now that I've had a chance to peruse the other links:
An observation: I think that many novice novelists assume agents are all about acquiring and repping novels, with maybe the odd film deal thrown in, but I know of one agent whose business is pretty much exclusively the representation of a couple estates of dead writers. A post on what you actually do in your job, Nathan—all the various things like audio rights and theme park rides and who knows what else – would be interesting (if you have written such a post, then it was during the months I was internetless).
What about the interactive PERSONAL EFFECTS? Well, if in writing a novel the writer is presenting an emotional experience for a reader, and a world for the reader to be emotional in, then why not expand the novel to clues and emails and websites as part of that world? The logic is the same. Doesn't mean all writers have to follow suit, and such novels might appeal mostly to gamer types (a lot of readers are plain lazy—they'd get annoyed at having to get up and get on-line for part of the story).
MARKET MY WORDS: Great blog title! And yes, good advice, but sigh, I am enough of a dinosaur (I have two arms and legs and green scaly tail) that I would love to see this year a writer cometing (a neologism akin to asteroiding) across the sky from out of the vast limitless darkness of no Internet presence. This would be the exception to the rule, granted. (A curious thing about the "exception to the rule" rule: Ask 100 people if they are the exception to the rule or the rule, and 101 (this includes the schizophrenic) would say they are the exception and all the others are the rule—methinks this is just human nature).
Yes and amen to Jeff and Jennifer. I'd say that avoiding conflict doesn't mean no tension: having two characters (on a life raft say, one a boy and one a tiger) trying to avoid conflict can certainly ramp up the tension.
And as for The Wire, don't get it over here.
That's it for my Saturday am procrastination, must get back to my wip's scene, which is proving to be like digging through granite with my fingernails.
A post with 2 links to home. I had no idea Tracy Kidder got his start with "The Road to Yuba City" - nor that it was a collectors item.
That was a great interview with Georges Borchardt. I really liked this question, When are you the most proud of what you do?, and Georges response. It's usually when we have a new author and I feel that we have really been able to change his or her life.
I can remember dad going out to the rice fields near the Colusa Weir and getting crawdads - and brining them home - and dumping them on the back patio - to watch Sheila (our German Short hair) snap off their heads!
Years later, when Justin Wilson and Cajun cooking popped up on the scene I couldn't believe crawdads and crawfish were the same thing.
Happy writing weekend everyone!
Trashy Cowgirl said, on 8/21/2009 7:55:00 PM
Crayfish Poaching. Wow. We have all the other problems here, but not that one. Though, legend has it that a couple of well known rodeo figures found themselves short of the enterance fee to the Clagary Stampede. Being resourceful, they headed out to the reservation and trimmed the hair off of all of the Native's poinies. Sold a few bags of it, and made quite a name for themselves in the rodeo arena.
I'm entering the "get off my lawn!" phase of life, apparently...I just want to read a book. The interactive bells n' whistles just make me wonder if the book can stand on its own or not.
I've read Personal Effects: Dark Art, and I'd like to emphasize that it does not HAVE to be a multi-media experience. You can simply read the book, and there won't be any massive gaps in your understanding of the story.
But, I did call some of the phone numbers, and visited some of the websites, and played with the cool "personal effects" items that came with the book, and I'm glad I read it. I think the gimmicks did enhance the book. It wasn't the best writing in the world, but I had fun.
People who want to check out the stuff that comes with the book before they buy it can go here to see a video interview with the author where he explains it all. He also did some kick-butt video book trailers, did a "prequel" podcast/audiobook, and designed a "party pack" PDF of games so that you can host an evening of fun around the theme of his book (I've seen one other author that did a similar party pack, for a children's book called Where the Mountain Meets the Moon).
I think there's a very high risk of the gimmicks overwhelming a book, and reducing its value rather than increasing it, so I don't think it's the next new trend, but I think some books do lend themselves well to certain marketing "extras."
You know, that book (it slips my mind now) that you talked about here that had the phone numbers and web links sounds an awful lot like it's trying to be the adult version of Scholastic's "The 39 Clues."
Jil said, on 8/21/2009 10:19:00 PM
Saw a tv documentary on Okie noodling. Maybe their version of crayfish thieving? More painful though methinks. but more to eat!
Trashy Cowgirl said, on 8/21/2009 10:47:00 PM
OK, I actually just found the time to read the crayfish article. It reminded me of abilone poaching.
I worked as a waitress in a gentleman's (term used loosely) club in Cape Town. One day a bunch of poor looking Afrikaaners came in, and they were really spending the Rand. I asked another girl if they were merchants (SA term for drug dealers) and she said no, they didn't look classy enough. She was pretty sure they were abilone poachers. Turned out they were. And, it didn't take long to find out why they were in town. Soon, we were seeing them everywhere, and they were offering girls big dollars to come out on their boats with them the following week.
That was the week before a major summit was held on sustainable development for third world countries. Before we knew it, the place was crawling with Asian diplomats, in town to eat poached abilone. Men paid by their governments to come up with ways to prevent third world countries from pimping out their natural resaources. And who paid the bill? I can only speculate.
BTW, none of us went, though most only said no because they were scared of the diplomats.
Sometimes, I really miss ,my ignorance (I mean innocence).
Jennifer Hubbard's post gave me some relevant food for thought. Funny how often that happens.
I'm from Sacramento, and nobody seems to believe me when I tell them we have crawdads (and yep, that's what I've always called them too) up there. They're not just in the South, people, I swear! I had no idea there was a poaching problem with them though. I'm somewhat amused, although perhaps I should be outraged or something.
mkcbunny said, on 8/22/2009 12:33:00 AM
Congratulations Nathan on the Parker Posey news. PP rocks!
Thanks for the links. The EW story did make me laugh with that movie-world comparison. If everything aimed at teenaged boys were discounted from the stats, and only "adult" movies counted in box-office scores, nearly everything that landed in the top ten would be a movie you'd never heard of. :)
I've heard 'em referred to as fresh water lobsters but back in southern Ohio where I grew up, we called 'em crawdads. "You get a line and I'll get a pole . . ."
Glad I saw this post--lots of gems in that Georges Borchardt interview, lots of should-be-obvious warnings implied. Will many people listen to the warnings? I doubt it, which is very unfortunate.
Attached is a copy of our executive summary. If you could be so kind as to take a moment of you time to overlook it, I am positive you will be as enthusiastic as I am for an opportunity like this.
I just stumbled across your blog this week as I finished my manuscript and googled "literary agents." What a find this is!! I have now just spent hours reading all your sidebar tips posts and know what I need to do next: revise!
Wow, Nathan, you really out did yourself. I'm through the links, and they are wonderful.
First and most important, congratulations on Parker Posey! She has a really distinctive voice, and I bet it will be a terrific match for that book. Kudos on snagging her. I think it's great you're sharing your successes with your blog - Go, Nathan! :)
The funniest thing about the video is I started to find the scene funny. The power of suggestion is...well, powerful.
Thanks for the warning about the diaboical, evil crawfish poacher fiends. Good to know. I checked my kitchen and there weren't any poachers there yet, so so far I'm safe.
The articles are fantastic. I'd talk about all of them, but this post would be so loooong. Quickly, I thought Jennifer's points were really well said, as was Jeff Abbott's post about writing - I resonated. I found the business query critique hard to read because it was so ruthless, but there were very good points there. The marketing infomation was really relevant. The interview with George B. was amazing. I think Shelf Life was right on topic - and pretty funny about the industry being worried about a big hit. I seriously doubt though that e-books will significantly decrease sales. The population of e-book readers is still small. The Google stuff is over my head, but I vote for Google anyway. Go, Google!
Wonderful stuff. I hope you touch on some of these topics in upcoming posts.
Thanks for the shout-outs, Nathan. I still owe you a drink next time I'm in San Francisco. I've met a bunch of aspiring writers as of late and I point them immediately to your blog.
Loved this passage in the Georges Borchardt interview:
That's the irony when you see how publishing works. You don't necessarily make the money out of the flavor of the month. The real money, if you're in it for the duration, comes from books like that—from books nobody wanted—be they by William Faulkner or Elie Wiesel or Beckett or many others. Unfortunately, that argument is totally unconvincing to publishers now. If you're an editor at Random House or one of the other large firms, you can't say, "We're not going to make any money on this book for the next three years, but in ten years everybody will be envious of us for having it." The guy you're saying it to has two years to go on his contract, which is about to be renegotiated next year. What good does it do him to have a book that will bring in money ten years from now? He couldn't care less! He wants the book that makes money now so he can tell his bosses, "You should give me another contract for five years at twice the salary." So it's become different, and I think that's what's weighing on publishing, more than any of the other crises that come and go.
Giving your readers links to relevant topics, news etc is very nice of you Nathan, thanks. I was thinking about the idea of conflict in writing and if characters avoid conflict is that a form of conflict, knowing that we are social animals? A lot of families use the avoid always as a way of dealing with "issues". Hmmm. More thought and writing needed.
I have read "Personal Effects: Dark Art" and also have been an avid JC Hutchins fan since listening to his amazing 7th Son podcast (the novels will be out this year with St Martins Press).
On the interactivity, I agree with the above comment that the book can be read on its own. However, JC has used some very cool things that try to make the book an alternate reality that I personally looked at and enjoyed: *Call the voicemail and listen to a message (use free Skype!) - that was cool because voice brings the story to life *Go to http://www.PixelVixen707.com where the blogger is the 'girlfriend' of the protagonist - she has been blogging for ages so it is quite convincing *Check out the websites for the psychiatric unit where the book is set http://www.brinkvalepsychiatric.com/ It looks very real! *You get a whole load of physical objects with the book including an ID card (where the bad guy looks scarily like author Scott Sigler!) which just add depth.
I would say that the extra 'effects' make the book stand out from other thrillers - they do add to the story but not significantly. But JC is also an incredible marketer and community builder and these extras help immensely!
I did a video on this as my own book review - and yes, I'm a fan but not being paid! Thanks, Joanna
Holy crap. You can actually poach crawfish? Are there crawfish farms or something over there? I just have an amusing image of guys dressed in black, sneaking up in the middle of the night, and pouncing on unsuspecting crawfish with their over-priced, over-the-top crawfish catching hardware.
Remember the cover controversy a few weeks back where the girl on the cover of Justine Larbalestier's book did not exactly look anything like the actual protagonist? You may be pleased to know that Bloomsbury has changed course and will be using a new cover. Congrats to everyone all around.
And speaking of covers, remember my client Lisa Brackmann's query for ROCK PAPER TIGER, which ended up selling to Soho? Well, Lisa must have been friends with the God of Awesome Covers in some past life because she got a great one:
ROCK PAPER TIGER, as you may recall, is about an American Iraq war veteran who is down and out in Beijing when she's suddenly chased by international security contractors and the Chinese authorities and she doesn't know why. Like all great covers, this one is both visually striking and instantly conveys what the book is about. Very exciting.
Meanwhile, ever wondered when this whole vampire thing will die? (insert joke about vampires being undead and then follow it up with a joke about vampires sucking.) According to a NY Times Op-Ed by Guillermo del Toro and Chuck Hogan (who have a vested interest in the subject): NEVER. Bwa ha ha ha ha....
It was Sony Week this week as they had a steady stream of announcements. First up was an announcement of a new line of $199 e-book readers that come in multiple colors (the cases, not the screen). They also will be moving to a semi-open ePub format that will allow Sony e-books to be read on multiple devices. The FinePrint blog took a look at what it all means.
And in other technology news, are e-book readers all hype? The Times UK online takes a look at a Hype Cycle analysis. (via Mary Fitzsimmons).
Ron Hogan at GalleyCat initiated a very interesting /plea for editors to be more brand conscious. If imprints exist (and boy howdy do they), why not get out there and build some brand loyalty among readers, Billy Mays style?
While I was away we had a great guest post on how to solicit blurbs by Lauren Baratz-Logsted, and over at Murderati there's a similar guide by Louise Ure about blurb etiquette. As you can probably tell there's a wide, wide range of opinions about blurbs, so consult your agent during the process.
In agent advice news, Kristin Nelson has a seriously important, essential post on nuts and bolts things you must do once your book sells. Among her suggestions: get a good accountant, keep track of your dates, and pay your taxes.
Rachelle Gardner discussed something that really doesn't help a query: spending time telling an agent why you love to write. As I've said before, I don't care if you hate writing more than I hate Robert Horry as long as you write good books.
(It's not overly personal, Robert Horry. But you should know that if I get my hands on a time machine the absolute first thing I'm going back and changing is this).
I somehow missed this one the first time around, but now that Libba Bray's GOING BOVINE is coming out next month it's worth revisiting her utterly awesome post about the stages of writing a novel in the form of a love story. (via Lisa Brackmann)
My most excellent colleague Katherine Arathoon passed along a hilarious post about writing: the 7 vices of highly creative people. If you live up to these you'll probably be dead in under three years. In the immortal words of Mark Twain: "My vices protect me but they would assassinate you!"
And finally, ever wonder what an intern at a book publisher does? Well, the geniuses at Orbit put their intern to work counting the different cover elements in all the fantasy books published by major imprints. The resulting chart is priceless. You'll be pleased to know that the three most common elements in fantasy covers are swords, glowy magic and a castle/citadel, although I'm sad to tell you that "completely dark cover of meaninglessness" languished in 10th place, just ahead of "staffs" and behind "wolves." (via @Ginger_Clark)
Have a great weekend!
42 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 8/17/2009
And what's with the publishing backwards thing? Is it opposite day and someone forgot to tell me? (trust me, there are some things that are should never be worn backwards).
Many thanks to agent types like yourself and the most excellent Editorial Anonymous for spreading the word on the cover of LIAR. And many thanks to those posters, emailers and dissenting voices who got Bloomsbury to think twice about putting out a cover that in no way resembled the protagonist. While the next cover is still generating some debate (model is light brown with longer hair than the protag) it was a victory none the less.
Also, I don't think vampires will cease any time soon. What about the vampire myths from Asia, Africa, and other parts of the world that have yet to see the light of day - terrible pun intentional. The Chupacabra lives :)
On a side note: too bad you don't rep Graphic Novels.
LOVE the cover for RPT!!! Soho did an outstanding job and it's one of thoe most eye-catching covers I've seen. The tiger in the center immediately jumps out at you...
Mira, interesting take on the cover, although that never came to mind when I saw it. I'm a big cat lover (platonic only!) too...
The cover Soho has chosen really reflects the story whereas a hot woman with her leg over the tiger would be totally misleading. Although eye-catching.
Those poor Unicorns. I hope my cover has a unicorn wearing stillettos with a hobit on its back brandishing a sword and reading a map at the same time, while the unicorn is engaged in a battle between glowy magic and vast darky meaninglessness....in front of a castle. My book would sell for sure. You want in, Nathan?
I can't wait for the vampire thing to die off too. Whatever happened to good ghost stories? The genre had a brief shining moment after The Sixth Sense. Now, it's all vampires again. :(
I seriously got stuck on the first line for a bit. But I figured it out eventually. Glad I spend my time so wisely.
The cover looks pretty sweet!
Unfortunately, I still can't afford a Sony e-book Reader. But maybe when I graduate in December and have a job I can afford one...or maybe I'll get one as a graduation gift!
As for the covers, I think it is hilarious they had their intern do that. But I'm even more pleased the stilettos made the top 20! Woohoo!
Just a note... The Shatzkin Files, http://www.idealog.com/blog/ has some very interesting information about ebook sales increasing faster than expected... Tipping point here it comes!
I just realized one advantage of electronic books: silverfish (wretched little bugs) ate tunnels and holes in some of my favorite books. You think your books would be safe sitting on their shelves, but no! So let that be a word of warning to you. Guard your treasures. Spray occasionally with Raid.
Lisa's cover is brilliant. I trust you are now working on her movie deal. . .
terri said, on 8/14/2009 6:04:00 PM
Here is another fun link I didn't get to you in time for your consideration for this week.
http://killzoneauthors.blogspot.com/
A hilarious account of John Gilstrap's ("No Mercy") experiences with book signings.
Nathan, you are racking up some serious votes over at Editor Unleashed to be considered one of the 25 best writing blogs. Check it out Branford-ites, let's get our fav blog onto the list!
Witty and informative as always, Nathan. I love ending my work week with your 'This Week in Publishing' post. Thanks for everything. Have a lovely weekend.
I used to think I wasn't into vampires, then I got obsessed with those Twilight books (someday I'll publish a book about the secret ingredient of those books that makes even 30 something women addicted--and I hate romance novels, so it isn't that. is it?). And now I'm watching True Blood. Gee whiz.
Tigers!
I'm glad to see Libba Bray has a new novel. And with a character named Dulcie! My 6 yr old is named Dulcie. I sometimes have to convince people I didn't make the name up.
Unfortunately, I was not kidding about super-imposing a half-naked woman's silhoutte in a James Bond pose over the tiger. I think that would move books.
But then I spend most of my time drawing silhouettes of half-naked people on all the covers of my books, so take it for what it's worth.
(I am kidding about that.)
(Sort of.)
Regardless, it's a cool cover.
I'm going to go vote for Nathan at the editor's blog thingy now.
That cover is one I would pluck off the shelves to inspect in a banano-second. Kudos to the artist!
I did love the 7 vices link. I must say these creativity aids were well covered in my education as an art student. Probably lucky for me that they mostly didn't take.
Too funny...although I live such a chaste life I'm saddened to discover I haven't a creative bone in my body...
whisky! bring me whisky!!
Thomas Burchfield said, on 8/15/2009 2:30:00 PM
The 7 Vices essay was tremendous and well, inspiring, esp. to his scotch drinking, occasional cigar smoking, snazzy hat-wearing scribe (Though I fall down in department--my debt load is small). I shall share it with many.
That's truly a great "You Want to Read Me" cover for "Rock Paper Tiger" which brings up a troubling irony for those of you who are e-reader fans and for publishers. E-readers, so far, offer no graphics. I recently saw my first Kindle and I have to say I wasn't that impressed. Still seems more of a business tool than an entertainment/art medium. Back to silverfish-infested paper for me.
I have a question for you, Nathan. Is there any sort of precedence for release dates? Is one season "bigger" than the others? I had always assumed summer was the one to get, but I'm hearing fall is best. Any input? Any time you like your clients' books to be released?
The seven vices...ah yes. To quote the great philosopher Tom T. Hall "I had it all when I was young and in my natural prime. Now it's old dogs and children and watermelon wine." Does that mean my days of creativity are gone forever? Alas.
Rock, Paper, Tiger looks great - and I am so relieved to see that Liar got a proper cover. I had read about that issue in horrified shock, and it's great to see it resolved.
And I'm actually pleased to hear that vampires aren't dying yet. I may not gobble up all vamp fiction, but I do enjoy a decent share!
Hey, thanks everyone, for the positive words on the cover. I absolutely love it. I feel like I could not have asked for a better representation of the book. I want T-shirts made from this cover.
Oh, and re: the 7 Sins of Creative People? I'm around 3. No, I'm not telling you which ones.
It's funny that the article on the 7 vices mentions Julia Child, as she was on my mind for another reason.
Having just seen Julie and Julia, I'm curious about its effect on as-yet-unpublished writers. We see the author of "The Joy of Cooking" saying she got cheated by her publisher and made nothing; Julia et al getting advances on a 700-page cookbook that took years to write and even more years to publish, then Julie Powell getting some favorable press in the NYT and having the publishing world beat down her door.
Will the depiction of Julie's out-of-nowhere success discourage writers who face the more realistic task of querying and possible repeated rejection?
Not if he's making a play on words... (backwards = backwords = words printed backwards)
And notice my own clever play on words, because I said "play on words" when the word being played on was "words"... Okay, I'll stop now. It's been a long day. I shall blink stupidly and await a new post.
Thanks again to everyone who entered the second Guest Blog Challenge! This was just as difficult to judge as the first contest, and there were many incredible entries. But there could be only five.
They are:
Monday: Carly Wells Tuesday: Lauren Baratz-Logsted Wednesday: Regina Milton Thursday: Peter Cooper Friday: Rick Daley
You will be in great hands next week. Congratulations to the winners!
More digital ink is being devoted to the Kindle this week and there's a wide range of opinion. In the skeptic camp, reader Scott Spem was the first to point me to an as-you'd-expect review of the Kindle in the New Yorker by Nicholson Baker: there's plenty of sneering (a sample passage: "The problem was that the screen was gray. And it wasn’t just gray; it was a greenish, sickly gray. A postmortem gray. The resizable typeface, Monotype Caecilia, appeared as a darker gray. Dark gray on paler greenish gray was the palette of the Amazon Kindle."), but despite all that he almost brings himself to liking it in the end.
Meanwhile, in the "Holy crap I love this" camp is blog reader/commenter T. Anne who posted her own review this week, called, appropriately, Confessions of a Kindleholic.
In still-more-fallout from the whole Amazon/Orwell thing, the LA Times has an ominous Op-Ed called "Amazon's Troubling Reach," which includes this whopper: "[I]t's not the incidents themselves but their ramifications that are disturbing, the idea that Amazon can effectively alter the collective memory at will." Wow. I was going to make a point about this BUT AMAZON ERASED MY MEMORY. RUN!! RUN!!!!! SOMEWHERE! I FORGET WHERE!!
Meanwhile, GalleyCat spotted a journalist who is not terrified of the Kindle and all The Dire Implications it represents! In fact, Paul Carr suggests that Amazon shouldn't apologize for the Orwell Incident. He writes: "In the past, once illegal copies were in people’s possession, there was little the copyright owner could do about it. Now, thanks to technology there is. Now, thanks to ebooks and the Kindle and Whispernet, the rights of authors - and their reward for spending their lives creating ideas and entertainment that benefit the world - can be protected and actively enforced."
Meanwhile in still more e-book news, the NY Times detailed how DRM opponents are using the Orwell Incident to advance the non-DRM cause, while Mike Shatzkin, incredibly presciently as always, notes that in the future the DRM debate is kind of beside the point. In our Cloud future, where our content is stored centrally and we access it via our multiple devices, DRM will be the method by which that works.
To further illustrate Shatzkin's point, I now read books on both my Kindle and iPhone. And the books sync between the devices. As in, after I read 20 pages on my iPhone the next time I sync my Kindle the same book will already be turned to the page I left off on. Let me just say that this shows that DRM... um... hmm... what was I going to say again? CURSED AMAZON!! LEAVE MY MEMORY ALONE!
Meanwhile, more news about the coming Apple Tablet, which will surely not be collective-memory-erasing because journalists love Apple like Flavor Flav loves clocks.
Whew! I swear some things happened that were not Kindle related.
Over at Pimp My Novel is a terrific discussion of Comp Titles, those magical books that are similar but not too similar to yours and by which publishers establish expectations for your book. Basically you hope your book is compared to good ones.
Neil Vogler pointed me to a very interesting post by an author who made the very difficult decision to leave her publisher.
In agent news, Jennifer Jackson has a great comparison for all that manuscript reading and conference-attending agents do for non-clients: not our job per se, but more like research and development.
Fitzgerald and Hemingway are two of my favorite writers, and they had a fascinatingly complex relationship. In a review of the forthcoming book FITZGERALD & HEMINGWAY: WORK AND DAYS, Matthew Shaer notes how Fitzgerald helped Hemingway get published, but later in life Hemingway increasingly felt Fitzgerald was soft and squandering his talent, comparing him to a wounded butterfly.
And finally, I love me some Disneyland, and thanks to the wonders of YouTube I give you... fascinating time-lapse footage of its construction (via Curbed SF via WhitScott):
Have a great weekend!
63 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 8/3/2009
How interesting about Fitzgerald and Hemingway. I read him first as a teenager in a translation to Finnish, must reread some in English now. Relationships between great writers facinate me, it makes them seem almost human. Great post, thanks. I'm fairly new to your blog.
regarding Kindle, some high school kid is sueing (suing?) Amazon for deleting Orwell's1984, because he claimed he saved e-notes on that version for his upcoming exam or something.
What's interesting about the suit is that his notes weren't actually deleted. He just lost the underlying work that the notes point to. Without the underlying work some/most of these notes probably don't make sense.
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems kind of important that he didn't actually have any of his own writing deleted. I'll be curious to see what happens.
Seems questionable/shady, if you ask me, but given our litigious nature, I'm not surprised (I would go on a political rant here, but I'm trying very hard to stay on topic :)
I know it's not QUITE the same thing but it makes me wonder if I can sue Microsoft for all the times my computer crashed in college and I lost the paper I had been working on.
Even more of a reason to get an iPhone: I can read books on it. I've tried out the app, though, and I'm not sure I'd do it long-term. My eyes would get tired reading that tiny screen. Still, it would be nice to do something in the grocery checkout line besides peruse Facebook status updates!
I have to say, reading on the iPhone really took some getting used to and I resisted it a long time. You have to turn the page pretty often and the screen is definitely small. But I've kind of gotten used to it, and the instantaneous page turns is extremely refreshing compared to the lag and page flash of the Kindle. It makes me think that with the bigger size the Apple Tablet could really be a spectacular e-reader even though it won't have the e-ink display.
Anonymous said, on 7/31/2009 1:06:00 PM
I get a person being of the opinion that DRM has its uses, and even of ignoring its many problems because they think the good outweighs the bad.
I don't get being of the opinion (or of at least sounding like one os of the opinion) that people who disagree with DRM must all be wild-eyed loons who want to give everything away for free and hate writers and other artists. There are plenty of thoughtful people on both sides of the debate.
And no, this was not aimed at any one person here.
Congrats Rick - and all the other winners - can't wait!
Laura - Sweet! Have fun tomorrow at the book signing. How awesome is that?!
RE: Identical book covers... I'll have to blog some more on that one. The whole cover art issue to me is crazy. I think I'll pour myself a glass of wine in a bit and blog away about that over at my site.
Yeah Laura - and congrats to the upcoming guest bloggers!
I'm not an e-reader kind of gal but I may have to make an exception for Apple.
I'm actually taking the kids to Disneyland for the first time next year - I've always been a Disneyworld freak (my hubby and I were season ticket holders while in grad school - seriously, we didn't even have kids then). My 2-year-old has been to Disney twice already, so I hope Disneyland can live up to the hype. :) Happy Friday!
Thanks, Steph and Kristi! I'm so excited... but I did my first live radio interview today, and it went so well, they've asked me to come back as a regular guest. Woohoo!
Oh, and Kristi, I LOVE Disneyland. Although Disneyworld's Epcot is pretty darn cool. Hope you have fun!
Congrats to the winners, can't wait to see what you have to say.
Really interesting links to the Kindle plot, and I too would love to have sued Microsoft for lost work (haha). I'm with you Nathan on the student suing, and agree that if his actual notes were left he's probably got no chance whatsoever ... but you never know for sure.
Yay for you Laura. Pity I'm in a way off land, and can't actually meet you in person. Maybe another time. Good luck anyway - and especially awesome news on the radio gig.
Anonymous said, on 7/31/2009 5:43:00 PM
I will not get into this debate - I will not get into this debate - I will not -
Oh, heck, I can't help myself!
The difference between the Microsoft and Amazon example is:
A Microsoft system or product failure would be a service issue – not a product licensing issue.
MS legally protects itself from service failures by having its customers agree to the terms and conditions BEFORE they're licensed to use the MS products. You use the product knowing it may fail and you've accepted those conditions.
However, Amazon, allegedly, took the product and the student’s ability to use his work although he was using the product according to the licensed agreement that he entered into with Amazon when he "purchased" the digital book.
Then the student, allegedly, used the annotation features that came with the Kindle that he also purchased and used according to the terms of their purchase agreement.
If the lawyers can prove that the student used both products within the terms of his licensed agreement - then Amazon may be held liable.
The fact that Amazon did not have the rights to distribute the book electronically is a problem between Amazon and the persons who do legally hold the digital rights – it does not give Amazon the right to take the student’s work - or his ability to easily use the work.
If, for example, Microsoft decided to take your MS Word software and usable access to all of the Word documents that you have on your system – (although you were using the product according to your licensed rights) – then you could sue MS and (try to) hold them liable for any losses that you sustained.
If Amazon were to update the functionality in the Kindle units to store the annotations separately from the ebook and in a useful format (also independent from the ebook), then the student could access and download the annotations despite the removal of the eBook.
In addition, if Amazon change their licensing agreement with users – and/or – properly vet their licensing rights for ebooks before they distribute – they can legally avoid these types of issues in the future – just like Microsoft.
These types of class action suits tend to force companies to deal with consumer service issues sooner rather than later.
Amazon will probably settle out of court, update the legal agreement that customers enter into when they buy ebooks, and modify the Kindle's annotation features.
For the record: Amazon is no worse than any of the other technology giants who had to figure it out as they went too.
There's also a good article over at Fast Company Magazine about Amazon and digital books and the future of publishing.
As for Hemingway, he's one of my favorites too. Apparently, plans are in the works for creating a movie based on the last years of Ernest Hemingway’s life and his creation of The Old Man and the Sea. Andy Garcia will direct the film, titled “Hemingway & Fuentes,” and play Gregorio Fuentes, a Cuban fishing-boat captain who was a good friend of Hemingway and helped inspire the novel. Anthony Hopkins will play Hemingway, and Annette Bening will play Hemingway’s wife, Mary.
The Cape Coral Daily Breeze had an article about it a couple of months back. A release date is supposedly set for sometime next year.
Wow anon, thanks for the legal rundown. And you weren't going to share that? C'mon. I agree, Amazon learned their lesson the hard way. Now they can fix their mistake, pay retributions (not just monetary) and hopefully move on.
Laura - A radio gig too? Sweet. And to think, I can say I knew you when...
Now I have expectations to live up to, I hope I meet them (or better yet, exceed them).
I'm trying to post this using my Blackberry, if something goes wrong it's the tehchnology to blame, not the user.
Anonymous said, on 7/31/2009 6:54:00 PM
BofA,
Truly, I am not taking sides - but imho - this type of litigation (class action) is what drives corporations to deal with consumer sales and service support.
These issues are normal problems that occur with any new technology development or product release - but I do think Amazon's lawyers and technology staff could have thought of and avoided these issues. It makes me go - hmmmmm. I also think the lawyers would not bring a class action suit if they were not confident that Amazon violated the terms of their agreements.
Anyway, all legal entities have to comply with the law and the legal agreements they enter into
- So -
Individuals pay fines and/or go to jail for legal violations and corporations pay money - what else you gonna do to make a company comply?
Far too often - It has to cost a company more money to break the law than it costs the company to comply with the law.
I am not directing that last statement at Amazon. I believe these issues were most likely sincere oversights – and, of course, they still have to be proven in court.
Anon - I agree that money/sanctions are the only ways to hold companies accountable -- hence class action lawsuits... however, I'm fairly certain that the individual student (and/or his/her family) couldn't care less about proper corporate governance and is seeking class-action status to appear socially philanthropic. Yeah, I know I'm a cynic, but I don't buy it.
Now, if details show that the student's not seeking greater punitive damages for himself, I'll come down from my high, pale horse.
All that being said, i think he's got a fair gripe -- I just have a strong aversion to litigation... This, no matter how much of an uproar there was, was not an egregious mistake (perhaps poor PR handling of situation) and unless Amazon intentionally deceived for some purpose, they should be given some slack, as would be afforded a smaller company. Just because a company is big or b/c someone has a lot of money/power does not mean they should be held to a different standard than those of lesser means(it's blatant social hypocrisy).
I've been posting a lot more recently with my BB. I have to admit I feel the need to always type a disclosure. I tend to start sentences with "Cause" since I'm trying to keep it brief. lol. Plus scrolling is a pain!
Anyhow, congrats again! When you get all rich and famous because of your blog post, I will frame a copy of your personal critique to hang on my wall. lol.
You deserve it though!
Anonymous said, on 7/31/2009 7:58:00 PM
BofA,
And the court will likely agree with you.
Many times a company need only demonstrate that they have operated in good faith, make restitution (which should be small) and then comply with the court’s orders to prevent future issues.
The article that Marilyn provided in her links quotes the lawyer of the lawfirm initiating the suit: “Edelson says he intends to seek to represent all Kindle owners in the case against Amazon. Amazon's user agreement says that consumers who purchase e-books are buying the right "to keep a permanent copy" of the material”.
And the article that goes on to say: “Eric Goldman, director of the High Tech Law Institute at Santa Clara University, says that a court might be sympathetic to Amazon because the company was apparently trying to mitigate potential copyright infringement.”
--- I agree.
Amazon will change their user agreement and modify their software.
They’ll probably pay a pittance to the consumers and be done - Well, almost done. I’m sure your cynicism is justified in that the payment will include the lawyers’ fees. ;)
Anyone else get really annoyed about all of the stickers that end up on book covers? I put up a sample book cover that defeats the author/title covering, sticker-loving bookstores. Lots of fun to imagine my book published:)
To add to the Amazon discussion, Jeffrey Bezos, Founder and CEO of Amazon, is now worth $6.8 BILLION. I'm guessing the Kindle lawsuits will be settled out of court. If the cases go to court, Amazon will most likely have a fleet of the best lawyers. I find these kinds of things fascinating, including the fact that Bezos is only #68 on the Forbes list of The World's Billionaires. (Bill Gates is #1 at $40 BILLION, and Warren Buffet is #2 at $37 BILLION. I saw a fascinating interview with Warren Buffet when the economy was in dire straits, in which he talked about moving some of his own money from one place to another in a way that would alter the overall economy for the better – that’s a huge amount of control over the economy.)
Despite all of this, a Forbes Special Report says: "The richest people in the world have gotten poorer, just like the rest of us. This year the world's billionaires have an average net worth of $3 billion, down 23% in 12 months. The world now has 793 billionaires, down from 1,125 a year ago."
Laura Martone – I just now caught up reading all the comments. (It's been a busy day for me, only at my computer for brief periods at a time.) Congratulations on your radio interview and book signing! That's awesome!
Rick Daley – I recognize your name from comments you’ve added to discussions on Nathan’s blog. How cool that you’ll have a winning guest blog here next week. Congratulations!
Just because a company is big or b/c someone has a lot of money/power does not mean they should be held to a different standard than those of lesser means(it's blatant social hypocrisy).
I have to disagree. Companies/individuals with a tremendous amount of money/power have the ability to manipulate regulations and markets to their advantage that less empowered companies/individuals do not have. The reality is, they are able to write the standards to their own benefit.
Be that as it may, and not being a lawyer, I think Anon's take on this seems about right.
1. Congratulations to the guest bloggers selected for next week
2. Laura – A radio appearance and a book signing? Congrats!
3. Eric - I’ve enjoyed ‘Pimp My Novel’ – I’ve been lurking over there. The information is great.
4. Stephen nice article – thanks for sharing.
5. Rick – I appreciate the Slushpile! I’m a regular lurker – but I do not read cereal boxes. Maybe I will write a blog titled ‘Confessions of a lurker: Why I lurk’. Thanks for blogging!
It is nice to be a part of virtual community where so many nice things are happening to so many nice people.
(My word of the day: nice)
Writing is one of the few professions where we can be supportive competitors.
AM, yes - lots of congratulations today. Rick, I didn't quite take in that was you! Wow. I'm sure you'll be great, really. I have no doubt. Long overdue for you to shine, imho.
I don't know if I recognize any of the other choices, but I'm sure if I knew you, I'd be just as excited.
Laura, congrats as well - that sounds really fun.
I agree with other Lisa and Anon about the corporation stuff. The more power and money a business has, the more influence, the more they should be held accountable.
That's weird. My email entries got lost in cyberworld two contests in a row.
That's the only explanation that makes any sense.
Anonymous said, on 8/1/2009 5:57:00 AM
Hi there, Quick Kindle question but more to do with the body than the actual e-reader/Orwell/Amazon issues swirling about! We don't get to see many Kindle's down here in Australia, so I was wondering if anyone can enlighten me on whether they get very hot to handle, particularly the back side? I say this because I write on an alum-bodied 2008 MacBookPro and it gets red-hot after an hour or so of cooking my manuscript. So, after all the recent rumours about Apple releasing an e-tablet for Christmas, it got me to thinking - do Kindles get too hot to handle, does their temp change if you read 100 pages in one sitting?
Thanks Laura,PC,Mira,Marilyn, et al (still limited to Blackberry, so this is most inefficient). And of course thanks to Nathan for picking my entry!
For the record, this is the fourth time I've wormed my way into Nathan's blog. Query critique, TWIP Slushpile announcement, inspiring a follow up you tell me after the revision cheklist, and this.
Rick, when you've got it, you've got it. It's just irresistible. Not only that, but as the Friday person, you'll be up all weekend. Not too shabby, Mr. D. ;)
I have to disagree. Companies/individuals with a tremendous amount of money/power have the ability to manipulate regulations and markets to their advantage that less empowered companies/individuals do not have. The reality is, they are able to write the standards to their own benefit.
To a certain extent, this is true... however, they are also held to higher standards and have greater restrictions placed on them (e.g. Sarbanes-Oxley) in today's era.
Ultimately, I'm not supporting large companies/individuals -- I'm supporting fairness, which is all too often thrown out the window when it comes to public opinion about "The Man" -- whichever large entity that may be (admittedly, due to money and influence, these entities can get away w/ more, or at least can suffer greater detriment w/o permanent consequence than most of us).
Govt/market protection of large entities bothers me as much as litigation against large entities (well, litigation in general :) -- so if that topic ever somehow comes up, I'll be sitting on the other side of the fence.
Congratultions to the winners! And to Laura. I love this blog. It's like a friendly virtual cafe for writers.
For a recap of the wonderful "Am I Crazies" thread of earlier in the week, and a bit of Kindle humor, check out my new blogpost "You May Be A Bestselling Author on Tralfamadore" http://annerallen.blogspot.com/
Finally had a chance to watch the time-lapse video of the building of Disneyland. Wow! Fantastic! I’ve been to Disneyland several times and to Disney World many times, and have loved every single visit. One of my best vacations ever was going to Disney World for a week that included New Year’s Eve, attending a New Year’s Eve show of Cirque du Soleil’s La Nouba in Downtown Disney, then going outside afterwards and welcoming in the New Year by watching the Disney fireworks. It was awesome, a night I will never forget.
Thanks, Marilyn, AM, Mira, and Anne! I appreciate being able to share good news with my online buddies. :-)
Oh, and Steph, my book signing went really well - some of my "live" pals dropped by, and it was fun meeting new people, too. And a visiting artist even painted a watercolor of me after the signing... true, it didn't look a thing like me, but it's the thought that counts, right?
Okay, now that that's done, I can catch up on all these newsy links. I'm so excited for this week's blog posts. I can't wait to see which topics were picked... although I'll gladly put money down that Rick's post will be hilarious. Better not disappoint me, man. (wink, wink)
I was thinkin' there would be more comments about the author leaving S&S - for less money. None! Guess it's tough competing with Hemmingway & Kindle. (That has a nice sort of ring to it - could be a high end men's tailor, or maybe an exclusive jewelry store.)
Laura - Congratulations! Sounds like you had an awesome book signing!
JaxPop – I think that Louise Doughty’s decision to leave her publisher makes lots of sense. Her sales figures were slipping, and nowadays publishers (and many agents) frequently drop an author if that continues. She was, in fact, offered a significantly smaller advance for her new book. On the other hand, people at a different publishing house were extremely excited about her new book, and that’s why she signed with them. Lots of well-known authors, including Piers Anthony, are now published by multiple publishers, having some of their books published by large publishing houses and some of their other books published by small press. I know authors who were advised by their agents to use a pen name in order to find publishers for their second book after their first book (published under their real name) didn’t sell well. I think it's great that Louise Doughty had choices.
Marilyn - I wasn't questioning the decision - was just surprised there were no comments/questions. Enjoy the remaining few hours of your weekend. Dave
Anonymous said, on 8/2/2009 3:45:00 PM
Jaxpop,
I read the article by Louise Doughty, but I didn't feel she gave me much to work with - as far as forming a "good" opinion.
She heralded the working relationship with her editor and she was pleased (enough) with her last advance - but then - she vaguely glosses over her reasons for switching houses.
She implies, but does not state, that the first publisher was somehow responsible for the fact that she "had written two good books in a row that had been acclaimed but flopped at the box office."
Why does she make this implication? She doesn't say.
She also doesn't say whether or not she talked about her concerns with her first publisher.
Frankly, I have to say that going to visit a publisher where the staff has been coached to show enthusiasm for a potential convert doesn't convince me that the publisher is appropriately enthusiastic.
I mean, what did the first publisher do wrong and what is the second publisher going to do right?
I hate to sound critical - especially of a published author who is probably light years ahead of me in the talent department - but the article came off as being a bit whiny, and I initially took it as an inexpensive way to announce that she had switched houses without volleying anything that might be substantially litigious about her previous publisher.
I generally agree with Marilyn, and I am sure that she knows more than I do about the inside workings of the business - which is why she could infer more out of the article - but I had nothing to work with other than the article itself.
Perhaps, Marilyn can fill in the gaps. Perhaps, Ms. Doughty was indeed concerned that she was about to be dropped and didn't want to come out and just say that?
There, that’s why I didn’t say anything before.
I hope I don't get attacked - I'm sensitive today.
I've heard many stories about authors being dropped by publishers when their books don't sell well. When the economy was good, it was taken for granted that, if an author's first book with a big publishing house didn't sell well, their second book wouldn’t get picked up. My impression is that, if Louise Doughty’s new publisher is very excited about her new book, they won’t be as likely to drop her if her sales don’t increase and they might even be willing to put more money into advertising her new book in order to boost sales. Reading between the lines, I wondered if Louise Doughty wasn’t worried about eventually being dropped by her first publisher. She was lucky to have had a choice, but I think it must have been a very difficult decision.
Hey Nathan, i was just reading your blog, like I often do ;) and while reading about your Guest Blog Challege I was reminded of the Agent For A Day challenge and was wondering if you were planning another one. It was a really great experience!
I wonder if Amazon would be regularly updating the advertisement/commercials, and if authors should be negotiating royalties from both the books' sales and its advertising.
Advertisers could pay a publisher/author based on the number of times readers view their advertisements.
I suspect that bestsellers will charge a higher advertising fee and as an author's sales increase, advertisers will be willing pay more per each view.
This is something to think about. This could significantly change the publishing industry, especially self-publishing.
And way beyond having a say in my novels’ book covers, I would definitely want a say in what advertisement is displayed 'on' my novels.
If I may share my perspective as a bookseller, it is not that bookstores love stickers. We put stickers on books to distinguish which ones are currently discounted. We cannot just put these books on specially marked displays or tables, because customers frequently leave books that don’t belong there in those spots (either carelessly or deliberately). I’ve had customers who insisted that we had to sell them a $150 medical book for a dollar because it was on the clearance table. We respond that the book is not stickered for that table, so another customer must have left it there accidentally.
I agree that the stickers can obscure important parts of the cover. Occasionally customers have asked me to locate a book for them which they did not notice because the sticker covered up part of the title or the author’s name. It’s something to be considered when designing a book cover.
Since "The Taking of Pelham One Two Three" was written by one of your clients, you might enjoy reading the interview at my blog (marjorie-digest) with Anna Berger. She was in the original film. She has had a career on film, TV, and stage that spans six decades and she worked with Kim Novak, John Garfield and Marlon Brando. Recently, she played Cookie on "The Sopranos." I was thrilled to have had Anna sit with me for the interview and we are now friends.
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I dont know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
First off, if you live in the Bay Area or plan to pass through our fair part of the country I will be hosting a workshop at your friendly neighborhood Books Inc. Opera Plaza in San Francisco on September 13th. The workshop is called Secrets of a Literary Agent, it will be about finding an agent and the secrets therein, and believe it or not, after I reveal this top secret classified agenting information I will not then have to kill you. You'll just have to take a memory erasing drug.
Amid all this talk of Amazon's world domination comes more persistent rumors about Apple developing a (potentially Kindle-killing) tablet sized device. T-minus six months until Apple is the new company the Internet thinks is going to bring about the apocalyptic end of books as we know it.
And speaking of the Kindle, remember way back a week ago when everyone was worried about Kindle pricing? Former HarperBusiness publisher Marion Maneker has a terrific article in Slate's The Big Money this week summarizing the issues surrounding the price point battle and why publishers are reluctant to embrace $9.99. Essentially, even though publishers are generally receiving near hardcover-level revenue from the Kindle as Amazon takes a loss, publishers are anxious about Amazon using their books as loss leaders and also about the extent to which readers are fleeing paper books in the direction of plastic whenever a big title comes out.
The article is also noteworthy as Maneker is the first individual to ever utter the following words in a journalistic sphere: "Publishers aren't stupid." HISTORY IN THE MAKING, PEOPLE. Also there is no word on Maneker's whereabouts. Journalists don't take kindly to such loose talk.
For more discussion on the future of e-books: B&N recently announced the creation of a massive e-book store, PBS recently featured a segment on e-books (thanks to reader Heidi Willis for the link), there's an article on demand pricing for e-books by Evan Schnittman, and a 100% must read by Mike Shatzkin evaluating the future of e-books. Shatzkin envisions a near future where there's an explosion of devices and purchase points, an environment in which Amazon and B&N in particular may not have an edge (via Pub Lunch)
Also in agent advice, Jane Dystel has a great post on etiquette when submitting to an agent. Some goes just for Dystel & Goderich and some is universal, but definitely check it out.
Many people passed along Editorial Anonymous' recent Publishometer, a point system by which you can see whether you pass the bar for publication.
Almost finally, as many of you know ANGELA'S ASHES author Frank McCourt passed away this week and there have been many remembrances in the media and online. I was particularly struck by the LA Times book blog Jacket Copy's article that remembers McCourt as one of the great late blooming authors, having published ANGELA'S ASHES, his first book, when he was 67 and retired.
And finally finally, I was immediately drawn to this video of the world's fastest everything. I only wish they had included footage of the world's fastest novel (via Andrew Sullivan).
Have a great weekend!
160 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 7/28/2009
I'm trying to figure out what "secrets" you can tell in your workshop. Don't the bran fans who read your blog already know all of your secrets? You even gave us a peek at your vacation pictures!
Hurrah, I was just running out of stuff to read! And um yeah, I wanted to thank you for talking me off the metaphorical ledge over the Amazon thing. I was kind of freaking out about it a little, so the voice of calm reason was quite appreciated.
You're talking??? In town????????? On a weekend I have plans to not BE in town????????? As in plane tickets??????????
ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.
Oh the irony. The sad, cruel irony of life.
Nathan, you did that on purpose. I just know you did. But how did you know? You have magical powers, that's the only thing I can think of. And something I always suspected.
Well, I'm going to have to go kill myself. After that, I'll take a look at all these wonderful links.
I hope those gun guys in the video were in law enforcement and not just yahoos who spend all day in their basements practicing that. Or at leas that they're not Canadian. I'd breathe easier, say, if they were San Franciscans.
And, oddly, I feel like stacking cups. Anyone else here reminded of the symmetrical book stacking in Ghostbusters? Classic movie. And you can't beat book stacking. Who's got the stopwatch?
Oh, and I see you posted a link to the Bookends site where I talked about blacklisting.
I usually like Jessica's posts, but boy did I have trouble with that one. I can see you liked it though - that's okay, we can disagree.
Well, I did wonder about my inexplicable popularity the last few days. I suppose people will now be edging away from me and waiting for the lightening to strike.
But don't worry. My discussion about the unbelievably horrendous practice of blacklisting people in the publishing business will be continued. I started, I'm not stopping now.
Secret Agent Bransford: Sign me up for the mind erasing prescription, I need to make space up there any! Your funny. Oh, and if you ever write a book, I will Kindle you, hardcover, for sure.
Nathan, sorry to post so frequently, this is the last for awhile.
I assume you'll be speaking places around here again. I'm going to type up a list of all my engagements for the next two years and send it to you. Could you schedule around that please? Just as a favor. So, I don't have to kill myself repeatedly?
Thank you.
Thermocline said, on 7/24/2009 3:03:00 PM
The discussion about Boy/Girl books made me think of the Lord of the Rings movies. The romance between Arwen and Aragorn, which was a large focus of the movies, was not a huge plot point in the books. I don't think of the trilogy as being Boy Books, but it's quite obvious that Peter Jackson thought amping up the romance would help it reach a wider audience.
The covers and marketing of YA and MG novels might turn off boys but I think it's too simplistic to say that boys don't want to read about girl protagonists. Maybe just not girly protagonists.
I loved Jessica Faust’s post about how "Good enough" isn’t good enough. Hooray for insistence on taking the time to make a manuscript as perfect as possible.
I agree wholeheartedly with Jennifer Hubbard’s advice about how important patience is in becoming a writer. I think it’s a requirement.
I felt so sad when I read that Frank McCourt had died earlier this week. His life story is incredibly inspirational.
Loved the World’s Fastest Everything video. Especially loved the cup stacker, and the Rubik’s cube guy. Wish I could solve even two sides of a Rubik’s cube in ... well, any amount of time. What is the world’s fastest novel? THE ROAD by Cormac McCarthy written in three weeks?
Your workshop sounds awesome! Wish I could be in California in September, but am scheduled to be there one month later. Sigh.
Oooh, I LOVE Apple and am happy for them to take over the world.
Marilyn Peake - thanks for the links yesterday to the interviews about the influence of the digital age on the music industry. They were great and I forwarded them to my musician hubby.
Hmmm. As much as I love my Kindle, I also would be quite happy if Apple took over most of the world.
And btw, what is it with us automatically thinking that because a company is big they're going to take over the world? How do we get to that conclusion so fast? Personally I blame literature and marvel at its power. Go, literature! Go! Change the masses!
No, I don't personally agree with that sentiment, although I can't speak for other agents.
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 5:42:00 PM
nathan, thanks for responding. I'm glad to hear it isn't the standard with every agent. I've read where some successful authors have been rejected 100+ times before finding an agent. I like to think we may all have the chance to connect with a different project at another time.
Thanks, Nathan, as always for the newsy, topical links. I have three blog posts to write today - but I promise to peruse them all this weekend.
In the meantime, I just want to say that I'd love to attend your workshop - if only I planned to be on the West Coast that day. Nerts.
Also, yahoo, Bane! Another thing we have in common... I STILL play Minesweeper on my laptop sometimes... er, when I should be working.
And, Mira, please refrain from offing yourself. Some of us would surely miss your wacky sense of humor and ever-changing icons... when I said "some of us," I didn't mean me, of course. I meant Bane and Ink.
Have a groovy weekend, everyone! ;-)
Elizabeth Aloe said, on 7/24/2009 6:06:00 PM
Hey Nathan,
I rsvp'd for your workshop and I very much look forward to it. Thank you for providing this for us. Have a great weekend.
Hi Laura, absolutely. Already understood. Bane and Ink would miss me.
I'm thinking of changing my trip. Is that weird? Is that stalker-like? That would make it totally appropriate then. I might be able to go the next weekend.
Haha - just kidding, of course. Do what you must. As for me, while I think Nathan seems like one groovy cat - and I would get a kick out of learning his "secret agent" ways in person... I don't do much rearranging of my schedule for anyone. Not even my husband.
Well, maybe I would for Willie Nelson... I sure do like his braids.
I'm not sure I can. I think when they say discount due to non-refundablity, they might mean it.
I guess he'll talk places again. Oh, but so close. So close! I told people we should have done labor day.
Okay, sorry. I'll stop taking up space here with my personal tragedy. Oh, but sooo close!
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 6:48:00 PM
Amazon will rule us all someday.
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 6:53:00 PM
The links that have been provided in this blog lead to other blogs and articles that are all very interesting and informative - but surely there's something missing there: where's the link to the article written by the unpublished novelist who has to deal with all these people?
Honestly, was I the only person here who was almost offended by what Jessica Faust wrote in the blog in which she listed the reasons she would stop reading a query?
She provides a lengthy list.
So here's my own list (which I posted in her own comments section) - this is a list of just some of the things that irritate me when I have to deal with certain literary agents.
1) Agents who can't get my name correct, even though my name is written right there at the top of the page.
2) Agents who can't get the title of my novel correct even though the title of my novel is written right there at the top of the page.
3) Agents who can't even be bothered to mention the title of my novel when they're rejecting it, and will refer to my novel as being my 'book project' - it's not a book project, alright, it's a novel, and I titled it for a reason. If an agent doesn't even bother to mention the title of my novel in the rejection letter (cough, cough) then I can only assume that my submission received very little attention - at least show me the courtesy of writing down the title of my novel, which, in all likelihood, I had been working on, day and night, for two years or more.
4) Agents who don't request to read at least three chapters of my work - I have no patience for a person who thinks that they can decide whether or not a book will be good in just a few pages. This is akin to sitting down in a theatre and watching a movie and saying, after five minutes, that the movie isn't your cup of tea, and then getting up and walking out.
5) Agents who don't understand that I've spent twenty years living in poverty so that I can spend my every waking moment either writing, reading, or thinking about fiction - these people should become real estate agents instead.
6) True novelists are born out of deprivation. Deprivation. Deprivation. Deprivation. Every older novelist who has written more than just one or two novels will be able to tell you that. Deprivation is at the heart of every true novelist (and quite frankly it's often what separates writers from becoming novelists, or becoming agents or editors instead), and any agent who doesn't understand that should probably not be in this business to begin with.
7) Agents who will clearly state that they're presently accepting unsolicited work - but then when I send them my work it will end up being read, not by the agent, but by the assistant of the literary agent - I didn't send my 'book project' to the assistant, I sent it to the agent. If an agent believes so highly in the assistant then the assistant should become an agent. The simple fact is that if I had been told up-front that my work would end up being read by some assistant, then I would never have sent it in the first place.
Here, I'll even sign my name.
I've been visiting blogs like this for the past couple of weeks now, and what I've noticed is that if I don't sign my name, then the first little jab that's taken at me is from somebody who will say, ah, very interesting, but I usually don't listen to people who are 'afraid' of revealing who they are, and will only post anonymously.
I'm not afraid of revealing who I am, alright.
Michael Younger.
I also posted as The Goose. If I ever post as anything else then I'll let you know.
Michael, you're the goose! I thought it was Ink. You're funny. Welcome. I think you have excellent points. I especially liked 5, 6, and 7. I don't quite agree with 4. I think you can tell in a few pages if you want to see more. Agents need books that 'hook' the reader, and they can tell that early.
Very brave - good for you! I'm posting too much, but I just wanted you to know you have support.
Since I was one person who mentioned that I did not weigh comments from people signing themselves "Anonymous" too heavily, let me clarify. Obviously I have no trouble with people using handles to identify themselves on blogs; I use one myself and have done so for years. What I don't like is people who try to engage me in some form of dialog but who don't adopt some kind of consistent handle for that.
I don't expect everyone to use their RL identity on the interwebz (In fact I think there are a lot of good reasons for not doing so), but I do think it's reasonable to ask a person to use a name of some sort, so I can associate that name with said person's opinions and personality over time.
Speaking for myself only.
Word verification: uncoo. Heh.
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 7:28:00 PM
I'd like to post this comment as well, if I may - well, in fact, I'm going to whether you like it or not.
I am shocked...
Shocked isn't even the word for it.. devastated, maybe.. to learn of Jane Dystel's attitude regarding the submission of subsequent novels after an initial rejection.
I'm not going to hold anything back here: learning of her attitude here made me spitting mad.
To suggest that a novelist can't improve is just insanely stupid - and yes that's exactly what she's implying!
I am not the novelist that I was ten years ago. I've had to learn a thousand things about writing, and each of those things has been its own little battle.
To suggest that a novelist - any novelist - doesn't go through an apprenticeship is just downright offensive.
Nobody can teach you how to write a novel - you have to learn that all on your own, and of course it will take you years - years - to reach the point where you can write and complete a commercial work of fiction.
I should be getting used to some of this stuff by now - but I'm not.
It just boggles my mind that these are the people who have ended up in the positions of power.
Oh well - I'll just continue to post what I think, and live with the consequences I guess.
God I get angry sometimes, though. And I mean 'real' angry. What's up with that, eh? Ernest Hemingway, I was told, would pound his fists against the walls every time he received a rejection letter... yeah, I might try that.
1 and 2, I'll agree with those on the first part. 3, I partially agree with, but understand that agents leaving off the title are looking to save time. You may not agree with their desire to save time, but I don't think it's particularly nefarious. Putting the name there doesn't really change anything one way or another. As long as the communication is clear, I'm not really bothered, though I understand where you're coming from.
Number 4 I disagree with. It's simply impossible. Not difficult, not hard, not some extra work. Impossible. If they morally have to read three chapters of yours, they have to do the same for everyone. So on monday Mr. or Mrs. Agent comes in to work and has 75 queries waiting for them. So, three chapters each... let's say roughly fifty pages (thinking average chapter is 15-20 pages). Now, to give a good reading (and not a half-asssed skim) of fifty pages, let's say an hour. So, that's one hour per submission. Times 75. That's 75 hours. That's two weeks of full time work for one day's queries. And they're going to get more queries on all those days. Plus, they actually haven't done any of their job yet, which is actually representing clients and trying to sell their books. So, manifestly impossible. Maybe if they paid a team of assistants. Which would be financially impossible, most likely. Plus you don't like assistants.
5 and 6, to me, seem like dangerous generalizations without much of a basis in anything. Well, 5 could be taken in a very specific sense just for you. But why should an agent know anything specific about you? Certainly all writers don't fall under that description. Many wouldn't even come remotely close. And it would be sort of hard to judge what the agents do or don't think anyway. Number 6 seems an unlikely generalization. All writers come from deprivation... you sure about that? I'm not sure I really want you speaking for me on that.
Number 7 I partially agree with, in that I understand where it's coming from. I think every writer would rather have their work in the hands of the agent, the one making decisions, rather than an assistant. I mean, the writers have researched the agent, not the grad student doing an internship. But, again, the agents are looking for time, and with the idea that the assistant can clear away the stuff that isn't remotely close to being ready yet, with the idea that this will give them more time to examine those who do have a chance (which is what you wanted in number 4). It's a matter of minutes in the day, and you can't have everything.
And I agree it would be frustrating to see agents who toss a query for small reasons, while at the same time making just such careless errors in their rejections. But I always figure you can't control how other people do business - just how you do business. You're reading the blogs, so you'll know the ropes. Don't make the mistakes and don't give them a reason for rejection. Everyone has the same opportunity.
As for the Dystel thing, I doubt they'll remember or care about a query they rejected two years ago if they're queried again. Now, if someone queries ten projects to them in two weeks, they might be getting a little tired... But I agree it seemed a funny sort of thing to suggest.
It's Friday afternoon so I won't address all of Michael's points, but let me just say that I do mess up authors' names. Heck, I even mess up the names of people I know extremely, extremely well (Natalie/Nicole, you know who you are).
But I don't mess up as much authors' names as much as the people who query me mess up my name. You wouldn't believe the creative spellings of "Bransford" I see every day.
And Michael, I don't hold it against them. I've never rejected someone for messing up my name. Just saying.
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 8:43:00 PM
Bryan, two points:
One:
If you've actively attempted to make contact with an agent, then in all likelihood that agent will remember you.
Nevertheless, that's not the issue here. The issue here is what Dystel wrote. And what she wrote was downright offensive - to suggest that writers won't or can't improve over time is just plain wrong.
Maybe some people will simply start submitting too early. What? Now they're cut off? Unbelievable.
If she didn't believe in what she wrote, then she shouldn't have written it! It's just that simple!
And two:
I was watching the Charlie Rose show many, many years ago (this was around about the time I was starting my apprenticeship) and Charlie Rose was interviewing an elderly novelist.
Rose asked the man (I can't remember what his name was) why a person becomes a novelist, and the man suddenly went quiet, and appeared to be almost devastated (at least that's how I now remember it):
"Deprivation," he said.
Rose nodded in agreement, having apparently heard this answer before - I could tell though that Rose didn't understand it at all, which was a typical reaction really, since most people don't.
"Deprivation is at the heart of every novelist," the man continued. "You're deprived of something in your life, and so you make up for it in the writing by creating fictional art."
Show me a person who has been deprived of something, and you won't always be showing me a novelist, but show me a true novelist and almost every time you'll be showing me a person who has faced deprivation.
Obviously there have been many people who have completed novels without having had deprivation in their lives' - but are they true novelists? I would argue that, no, they're not. Sorry, but I feel pretty strongly about this. It's the reason I'm living in poverty right now. I never chose to do this. I write morning, noon, and night, not because I'm getting paid to do so, but because I don't know what else to do, or how to do it. Deprivation has been the guiding force in my life, and it's what has sent me down this road.
I have a theory that most great editors would have been great novelists instead, if only they had faced some kind of early deprivation.
The writer John Irving is the perfect example of the true novelist - he was unaware that almost every one of his novels was centered around 'a missing father figure' until, one by one, the critics all pointed this out in their reviews of his books.
And guess what... John Irving's father... yup...
Michael Younger
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 8:50:00 PM
And I would also argue, Nathan, that a true novelist would be writing all the time, and wouldn't know the difference between a Monday morning and a Friday afternoon.
I know it's late (well, where I am, it is), and everyone has probably gone elsewhere by now... movie, nightclub, bed, whatever... but I just have to weigh in on this discussion.
While "deprivation" feeds my writing, it's not the reason that I'm a novelist. Being the only child of a broken home, I find that a lot of my stories revolve around characters (with siblings) who have issues with one or more of their unhappily married parents (usually, the mother). But still, I don't feel that the REASON I write is because I was deprived of certain things as a child (or even as an adult).
And I think it's awfully dangerous to make generalizations like the one you've made. Just because someone hasn't been markedly deprived of something doesn't mean he/she is incapable of being a true novelist. Besides, to a certain degree, everyone on this planet has been deprived of something at some point in their lives - whether it's wealth, affection, a dream career, or something much smaller - so, by your logic, everyone on this planet has the potential to be a true novelist.
And another thing... just because you live in poverty so you can write all day long doesn't mean that everyone must suffer for their art in equal measure. Every writer has a different story to tell - whether it's heartbreaking, hilarious, uplifting, or something else entirely - and all of those stories come from different wellsprings of inspiration - real or imagined. I'm not a terribly rich writer myself - in fact, I'm downright poor - but I don't think being impoverished is a prerequisite to being a wonderful novelist, the kind that's remembered through the ages. It's as if you're saying that poor writers are the only ones with a richness of spirit... and that's simply not true.
I wish you lots of luck in your writing, your career, or whatever else you're seeking, but I can't abide by your generalizations. They can only serve to alienate you from your fellow writers and taint your own soul with bitterness and anger.
You didn't mention the whole cover whitewashing controversy about Justine Larbalestier's new book Liar. Justine herself wrote a blog post about how publishing will not get behind a cover with a person of cover on it. I was really curious to know what your thoughts on that are.
To back up Nathan's point (and I'm not quite sure I should admit this, but it's Friday, so I'll go great guns here -- a british phrase; don't actually know what it means, but I like it)....
Awhile back, I queried Nathan prior to being his blog addict and addressed my query letter to "Mr. Bradford," I believe... I was (am) mortified, but, nonetheless, he requested a partial (and spelled everything in his responses correctly)...
Mistakes are made on both ends, but agents are going at warp speed, whereas we're meticulously grooming ourselves for show (and evidently I was having a Ben Stiller moment from There's Something About Mary), so I'm neither surprised nor offended if they make mistakes - hell, I'm just happy if I get a response (positive or negative)... Even if it's addressed to 'Dingbat Writer.'
As for deprivation - it doesn't feed my writing... Entertainment does... There's nothing like a good story to me. If it's got subtle meaning to it, more power to it, but I'm one of those people who writes/reads to fill holes but to expand horizons/imaginations.
Agree w/ you about the callous sounding tone of the Dystel piece -- use that as a metric for whether or not you want her as a potential representative, nothing more (as w/ rejection letters, remember that agents aren't all the same -- sometimes it may seem like they're a conglomerate, but I'm pretty sure they aren't ;).
Michael, I agree with you more than the others might, so let me weigh in on the deprivation thing.
I don't actually think it's deprivation that makes a writer, but something close. Emotional pain. Maybe that's what you meant by deprivation....? And it certainly helps if you throw isolation in the mix. Being unhappy and alone plus talent will make a darn good writer.
Emotional pain can create very open channels and focus that allow the muse to speak very clearly. Although, I'm not sure if other types of concentrated experiences would create the same condition. For example, someone who felt joy all the time. They may be great art that came from deep joy, that would be interesting to see. Of course that joy could be from the spiritual discoveries that come with the resolution of deep pain and loss, but I don't know. That's certainly not my path. I got the pain one.
But Michael, I have a concern here, and I hope it's not too personal. My concern would be that if someone believed deprivation was what gave them talent and the ability to write, they might not be motivated to give themselves more abundance in their lives. And everyone deserves abundance. You don't want to throw yourself on the cross of suffering in order to elevate yourself to artistic heights. Life is hard enough. Besides, it's also okay to let the world bring some joy in. It will deepen you as a writer, and bring a greater perspective.
Remember, we don't live to write.
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 9:47:00 PM
Michael,
Do not let online agents get under your skin. Be glad that they have revealed their attitudes and 'quirks' so that you can evaluate their suitability to be your agent.
When an agent has said enough to reveal their true inclinations, or put their foot in their mouth one time too many for you to imagine successfully working with them, then just take their name off of your potential agents list.
Just as in business, where we are told not to send an email when we are angry – do not post anything when you are ‘spitting mad’. Do not be goaded. Create a pseudonym and use it consistently, as so many others do, so that you are not judged years or even months from now, when – as you so eloquently pointed out – you will not be who you are today. There is nothing worse than our past haunting our present.
Case in point: Take Ms. Dystel off your agent consideration list and put her on your NEVER WOULD CONSIDER list. When you do write your bestseller, she has ensured, today, that she will not get an option at it tomorrow. Who knows how many other authors she has offended?
You are an excellent writer. You are very articulate.
I agree with you, Mira - everyone deserves to have some joy in his or her life. Just as having nothing BUT joy in one's life can limit the complexity of one's stories, having nothing BUT pain can hinder a writer, too. To be the best writers we can be, it's important to understand both sides of the coin (an analogy that doesn't work, I'm afraid, for Harvey Dent).
I also agree with Bane and Anon 7:47 - as unfair as Ms. Dystel's blanket submission rules might seem (and as much anger as they might engender in many a writer), they are an unfortunate fact of life. Not every agent is the same, as Bane so astutely pointed out - and all that Ms. Dystel has done is given some writers (me and, I'm assuming, Michael the Goose included) a darn good reason to NEVER query her. After all, who wants an agent who doesn't believe that writers can improve over time?
--Laura
P.S. To Michael the Goose, wherever you are, I apologize if I seemed unnecessarily harsh with my "deprivation" rebuttal. Just as Ms. Dystel's comments boiled your blood, generalizations tend to boil mine. But I appreciate the fact that you expressed your opinion openly - and I wouldn't judge you "years or even months from now" as Anon 7:47 suggested that some might. It's perfectly fine for you to express your opinion, just as it's perfectly fine for me to disagree. As long as we treat each other with respect, we're doing just fine. :-)
Anonymous said, on 7/24/2009 10:56:00 PM
Anonymous, your post worries me a little bit.
It worries me because I fear that you might be correct - should I be signing with my real name?
At forums, or blog sections, such as this, I'm capable of being extremely - what's the phrase I'm searching for here: ah yes, 'hot-headed'... no, not hot-headed, apt to write down my thoughts exactly as they're presently forming in my head. If my head happens to be hot can I honestly help it?
Has this hot-headed-ness thing gotten me into trouble in the past?
Yes it has.
So what you're saying, then, is, just don't sign my real name - hmm? I don't know... that's just not me. I think I'd rather sign my own name and just accept the consequences.
Most of what I write I believe in anyhow (most of us do), so I honestly don't see why it matters?
Weighing in on the Dystel thing. I've queried them twice for two different mss--actually the same agent there who was quite nice and requested partials both times (I don't know if she remembered me or not from the first query). Just wait at least a year or more to query with another project. If you really feel your current ms is stronger, then send go ahead and send a query. It's no big deal.
When I read that Frank McCourt was 67 when he finally got published, it made my day. I still have 4 years to make it.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 12:06:00 AM
Goose Michael Jackson,
You should always be true to yourself and speak honestly.
But as my fictitious Grandpappy once told me: “There's a time and place it’s ‘ceptable to have ye bum out - Broad Street ain’t’ one of dem.”
Of course, that was shortly after a newspaper photographer took a picture of Grandpappy actually displaying his backside on Broad Street. It was an embarrassment for the whole family, but I'd bet he’d do it again, if it suited him. But, then again, he never planned on running for Mayor.
I loved my fictitious Grandpappy – bum and all.
Michael or Goose, either way, you are a character. I enjoy your wit.
Signed,
Still Anonymous
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 12:28:00 AM
The topic of deprivation on its own is an interesting idea and would be a fascinating detour, detour because I don't find it germane to discussions about the agent-writer relationship. An agent doesn't need to know whether a writer has suffered or vice versa, just as they don't need to know what the writer has gone through in their life. The primary locus of said relationship is the writing. Saying a writer won't work with an agent that doesn't 'get that deprivation is a part of them/the writing process' is like an agent saying that a writer only gets one shot at them with one ms - both don't really have anything to do with anything.
Ok, so slapstick humor is not my style; but some of this stuff is wierd enough to catch even my attention.
That said; I'd like to go off topic a moment.
I'd like to return to the guest blog topic of "what is your writing dream?" Well, it took me a long time to answer that question. The answer is: I'd like to be a ghost writer. I want someone to dictate to me the details of what they consider an interesting life, and I get to put it down in marketable prose.
Is this ghost writing?Biographical? I don't want to make up the initial story, I want to fill in the details in a marketable way.
So, I want to ask Nathan: what is the fine line between creative non-fiction and biographical. If someone tells you their story as a child, in another era, do you have to give them citation credits; pay the person a fee for discoursing information that might help you sell your novel?
Because I am a social worker, and come into contact with persons willing to divulge ther entire story to anyone willing to let them talk; can I use what they say in a victional environment, or do I need a release of information just because it's an actual revelation? Even if the context of my scenario is a compilation of too many similar stories to count. At what point do so many similar stories become usuable fodder for a novel character?
And yeah, I want to take a workshop run by my favorite author blogger! It so happens that I put in for some leave (vacation) time, then and have been told that since I have the on-paper leave accural they won't tell me no; but there are reasons I shouldn't take the time off. Yeah, yeah. Close to, I'll see what my finances are to determine if I get to "call in sick".
But in the meantime: biographacials, ghost writing; should a writer take on the project? How to write credits, share royalties; get permission?
..........dhole
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 3:29:00 AM
By the way, does anybody here know which writer I was referring to?
This cat was going on about deprivation, and although what he was saying was truly striking a chord with me, I didn't think to take his name down.
I merely ask, since Mr. Bradford's website here seems to be attracting a slightly inordinate percentage of highly intelligent and knowledgeable... uh, folks.
The interview with the novelist in question was re-broadcast a couple of nights after he died - anybody?
He was old. He was at least in his eighties. The original broadcast aired quite a while ago too. I'm thinking mid-90's.
Apart from the deprivation thing, I remember that this novelist mentioned his wife (then deceased).
He said that when he took her back home (to the mid-west, I think it was) for the first time that his father didn't say anything, and that for this reason his feelings were quite hurt. But that night, as he sat alone with his father on the front porch, his father, not a poetic man, suddenly said: "She's a star... we've never had one in the family before."
The other thing I remember was a comment he made about memory. "I had no idea that being old would be so wonderful," he said. "In my mind I can travel to any part of my life, and re-live it... it's wonderful."
Yeah, that's a novelist, alright.
I always say to people that as a human being I'm really just a collection of memories. And honestly, for the life of me, I can't understand why some people never look back?
For starters, one can't examine one's life if one never looks back.
And you know, and I know, that the unexamined life is not worth living - which cat said that? I think it was that Socrates bird, wasn't it? Did anybody here study Philanthropy in college?
But, more importantly, that collection of memories that we all have is what constitutes one's self - me, I always look back. Some people are always rattling on about the future, but I'll deal with that when I get there. IF I get there.
Anyhow, if anybody could help me out with this - much appreciated. Thanks.
Yours truly,
Michael Jordan.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 8:37:00 AM
Michael -
here´s a little true story for you. When J. K. Rowling, often invoked on this blog, received the request for her full MS as an exclusive, the agent she had sent her submission to had yet to read a word of her partial. I bet good old J. K. sure is glad her initial package landed in the hands of the office junior who sent off for the full while the boss was presumably out having drinks at the Groucho. What I´m trying to say, I guess, is, ´tis a gamble any which way you look at it, and your only hand is to query extremely widely to maximise your chances of catching the right agent (or intern) on the right day.
I´m sure I´m not the only one who is a touch mystified by some of the winning query letters we are often presented with by blogging agents, such as Nicholas Sparks´s query for The Notebook, which Nathan has previously referred to (http://www.nicholassparks.com/WritersCorner/Query.html). I can just picture Miss Snark grinding her heels into that one! There´s no accounting for personal taste or preferences, and therefore no excuse for levels of professional courtesy slipping, on behalf of either agent or aspiring author. Here in the UK I recently received a reply to a query from an agent who was downright condescending about the genre I write in, without having read a word of a partial or indeed having mentioned on his website that he does not represent this genre. I wrote back cordially thanking him for his prompt reply, which I don´t regard as turning the other cheek, but as doing my bit for not letting the tone in this world totally go to the dogs. There is so much one has to develop a thick skin against in this game, on every level of outside recognition or lack thereof.
Michael - well, hmmm. Well I see you have an anonymous guardian angel, with a very strong writing voice and compelling argument.
I'm going to agree on some points - ranting is problematic. Most people shut down when someone 'yells' at them, and they can harbor feelings about it.
There's also the general truth that people can hear that you're angry, or they can hear what you're saying. Most people can't hear both at the same time.
So ranting at agents isn't always effective if your goal is to have agents hear you - although it may be effective in getting writers to listen. Ranting under a false name isn't a bad idea, if rant you must.
I wouldn't give a second thought to this thread. I seriously doubt anyone would hold this thread against you, and if they did, that's not the type of person you want for an agent.
So, our Anon has laid out two options:
a. Rant and blow your professional writing career because of the despicable practice of blacklisting.
b. Play ball.
There is a third option. It's called expressing your opinion when you're not angry, with professional courtesy, but also integrity. Knowing two things:
a. Allowing yourself to be silenced damages those very channels you've worked so hard to open. It wounds who you are as a writer at the very core.
b. Even if you are blacklisted, the game is changing dramatically. In a few years, the same agents who are working to keep writers quiet, not understanding that lessens them as writers, which is something no agent should ever want to do, will be fighting to find their place.
Agents should work on allying with writers, not silencing them.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 10:15:00 AM
Mira,
Blacklisting never entered my mind.
The advice was about maintaining one's professional decorum in a public arena.
As Goose noted, what we write reflects who we are - but in the one-dimensional world of blogging, we can only reflect limited aspects of our multifaceted personalities. Also, there is the old adage about first impressions.
As we stand in judgment (and we do whether we admit it in writing or not) of agents who blog, so do agents who read blogs. If you are actively seeking representation at this time, then alienating any number of unnamed agents by coming off as combative and hotheaded is not an intelligent course. Sometimes we forget that we are not in a vacuum, and we express our emotions in the moment of time. We’re writers – that’s what we do – express emotions through stories.
I assure you that if I expressed myself as blatantly as I so desired in even one business meeting, I’d be without employment. And that would be in one boardroom with identified attendees. In other words, I would know exactly who I was offending.
Blogging in the internet is another universe. We are alone in our homes, in a blog, and can sometimes feel quite isolated. But in reality, we do not know who is listening, drawing opinions and taking names. Aren’t the odds difficult enough without letting one incident in which we’ve openly expressed our more extreme emotions label us as hotheaded or difficult to work with?
We are participating on a professional AGENT’S blog that has many unidentified lurkers. Not spies, but people interested in the topic of conversation, and we all develop opinion of every “named” blogger here. That’s why the Other Lisa wants an identify to associate with a personality. That's normal.
I simply want to remind my fellow authors that the audience is much larger and varied than we sometimes realize or remember.
I am late for a wedding, so I will wrap up with the one thought: I was not giving out heavy-handed threats, conspiracy theories, or blacklists… just friendly professional advice because I like my fellow authors.
Always admired your game, man. Go Bulls. How's my man Pip doing?
On a serious note, I'm still really struggling with this idea of deprivation you've thrown out. There's a very big difference between saying "My writing comes out of deprivation" and "All true writing comes out of deprivation." It's perfectly valid to talk about your own experience of writing this way; it's your experience, and no one knows it better than you. But to then generalize that to all writers is utterly illogical.
As Laura said, all people face some deprivation. It's part of the human condition, and so to single it out seems rather strange, as your formulation either ignores or dismisses any other motive for writing, for creating art, dismisses any other drive behind the creative impulse. There are as many different reasons for writing as there are writers. Some will write out of deprivation, some will write out of joy, some will write out of fear, some will write out of hope and conviction. Most of us, in truth, will write out of many things, for the creative impulse is not a simple or linear thing, but rather a vast complex interconnecting our own complexities with the complexities of the world around us. Great art comes from deprivation? No, great art comes from many things. And great art is not easily reduced.
Just because one writer said one thing that struck a chord with you does not make it right. Because a common thread runs through Irving's works does not mean that this is where all his writing comes from. A single association does not prove causality. There are a few other things going on in his books, too. Some of them he even intended, I'm sure. Such a limiting Freudian analysis of the subconscious literary impulse seems dangerous when it leads to such simplified generalizations as "all true novelists write from deprivation".
A statement like that offers only two paths: either you're pretending to speak for me (I'm deprived, and a true writer) or you're dismissing me (I don't write from deprivation and am not a true writer). Neither one particularly thrills me. The former lacks any logical basis and is full of presumption, and the latter, in particular, is really, really, really (really) insulting. Now, I don't think you meant it intentionally. I admire your honesty here, and your humour, and your conviction in your artistic undertakings. I'm glad you spoke up, and you have some good points. But you basically just called anyone who doesn't write for the same reasons as you a hack.
If I am, say, a humour writer, playing off the quirks of marriage and social life, and utterly uninterested in writing about or from deprivation, am I suddenly not a true writer? It seems a little ridiculous. Art can, and has, come from everywhere. A statement like "all true writing comes from deprivation" is almost meaningless in any sense beyond the personal and subjective. You could equally say all good writing comes from lust. Or fear. Or conviction. Or marshmallows. It's an expressive statement lacking any form of logical context.
So while I agree that the Dystel statement is rather odd, and can be a little insulting, it seems a lesser evil than the one you made (as I'm guessing the Dystel line was meant more as a comment on compatibility, a "hey, if we've rejected you a few times we're probably not the right stylistic or personal match" rather than a "if you're not good enough now, you never will be" sort of comment. I have a feeling they didn't fully think through the ramifications of their statement). Your statement, on the other hand, attempts to define who I am and what I do. And if I don't fit that definition I'm a hack and not a "true" novelist. Which is a very troubling statement.
Having said all that, I have enjoyed your contributions here (you've made me laugh outright a couple times), and think some of your points are important ones to consider. And don't worry about blacklisting, I'd say, as Nathan's little playground here is always a safe place for debate (assuming everyone is sticking to the ideas rather than personal attacks). Lots of room for differing opinions. I mean, I disagree with Mira all the time, and she still gives me ice cream. At least she said she would… maybe once she's finished building her continent hurtling catapult. Butter pecan sounds nice to start with…
It's presently fashionable, at forums, or at websites such as this (and by the way, I would like to thank Mr. Brailford for allowing us to post here - we all benefit greatly from the interchange that occurs in this section of his blog), for a person to preface their every strongly worded sentence with the phrase: in my opinion.
Some people will use this phrase so often that they'll just abbreviate it with imo.
I just don't feel the need to write imo before every sentence that I write (I would much rather write a complicated preface like this one) - it should be obvious that what I'm writing is just my opinion.
So in my opinion then - since we have been discussing what makes a novelist a novelist - here are some of the things that will surely cause one to become a novelist (and doom one to a life of poverty and misery in consequence) should one happen to possess, for whatever reasons, the majority of these traits or characteristics.
1) Deprivation.
Fundamental in its connection with novelists - deprivation is at the heart of every true novelist. A writer is deprived of something, and so attempts to make up for it by exiling oneself from regular society and by creating fictional art. (see Charlie Rose) (See John Irving)
2) Most novelists possess an exaggerated understanding of language that's almost innate in origin - or at the very least have had an early abnormal experience with the printed word.
When I was in the first grade I thought that I was stupid because I didn't know how to read - everyone but me seemed to know what the rules were, and everyone else exuded such an assuredness and such a confidence that I mistakenly thought that they all knew how to read, and what they were doing.
I knew I had to catch up to these guys - the result being that I over-compensated.
On a side note: befriending many of these people, I would later learn how stupid some of them were. "Hey, I've got an idea: let's build a ramp, and then lay down some kids and see how many of them we can jump over on our bikes!"
3) Being introverted doesn't hurt.
Did you know that the scientists have discovered that there's a gene for this? Apparently, an introverted person can no more refuse to be introverted than a sick person can refuse to be sick. I could have told you that!
Also, being introverted means that you'll be... uh, 'pre-conditioned' to spend massive amounts of time alone. The one thing that non-novelists just don't understand is how much time a novelist will spend alone.
I can go months without talking to people - easily. This has made it relatively easy for me to spend massive amounts of time alone, writing. It's also the reason I write in public a lot - I like people, and need to be around them.
Being a good listener, is also helpful. Being downright nosey is even better!
Also, if you're introverted, then you're imaginative - and that helps... a lot!
4) All novelists are liars. Really, really bad liars.
5) Many novelists are alcoholics - there's so much evidence of this that I'm not even going to bother to say anything more about this subject... except, maybe, help!
6) Novelists are fascinated by people, and possess the rare ability to put themselves in the shoes of others and to understand the world from their perspectives.
Novelists will converse with anybody (most homeless people, in particular, have led extremely fascinating lives') - and will often be able to extract information out of people in a rather astonishing fashion.
7) Novelists have time on their hands - it's going to take you ten to fifteen years to pass through your apprenticeship.
The novelist Margaret Atwood was approached at a party by a brain surgeon, who said to her that when he retired from being a brain surgeon he was going to become a novelist - and Atwood responded that when she retired from being a novelist she was going to become a brain surgeon.
It does take fifteen years, at least, to learn how to write commercial fiction.
I would never deprive you of Butter Pecan, that would be cruel and unusual. But I think you forgot a rather crucial point of our deal.
The deal was: ice cream = Mira's always right.
I realize that is going to require a complete personality transplant for you, so, you know, I'll give you some time.
Can I also say that what you wrote was extremely eloquent and sincere? But it did raise a question for me. What's this mean to Bryan? My goodness, he's protesting.....alot.
Anon - I have to write a paper (!) I am terrified of writing my first 5 page paper for college. Shaking in my boots. Lol. I should type it into this little box, then it will be a 65 page paper and Bane will be happy. Anyway, point is, I'll respond later. Enjoy your wedding.
5) "Many novelists are alcoholics"... Sort of getting into that dangerous reasoning again. Many lawyers are alcoholics. Many teachers are alcoholics. Probably some dentists, too. What's "many"? What bearing does it have in any specific sense on being a writer as opposed to being a mechanic? Many novelists are not alcoholics. Most of them, I'd wager. A large percentage majority are not alcoholics. So I'm not sure what relevance the statement has outside of the adoption of the old Hemingway mystique.
6)Yes, successful novelists will be able to put themselves in others shoes (unless they write mostly autobiogrpahical stuff), at least in a fictional sense. They may not be able to do it in real life. They might be able to imagine a character's reality for a novel, but not be able to understand a neighbour's viewpoint.
"Novelists will be able to talk with anybody..." Why? I don't see it. This is another grand generalization with no real basis in fact, as far as I can see. I doubt writers, in general, are much better at speaking to "anybody" than anyone else. I can't say I've seen much to support that idea. And what happened to your introverts? That doesn't sound very introverted.
7) Yes, writing certainly takes some time to learn. It takes some applied effort. But the generalization of fifteen years is certainly innacurate. As an average... maybe. As a rule, no. I mean, one of the blog readers here is having a novel published as a teen. And I doubt she started writing novels at age two. (Though I'm sure she was a precocious two year old) But as an average I could live with that idea of ten to fifteen years, at least until I saw some hard evidence (with the understanding that there will be many exceptions to that average).
8) Well, I already talked about deprivation. As an element for some writers, sure. No problem. As the defining element for every "true" novelist (whatever that is)... nope, I can't buy that. Do you really think the creative impulse is that simple? Void - Fill Void. Seems rather monochromatic to me. And it certainly doesn't apply to me as a writer. So I guess I'm not a "true" novelist. Shucks.
Well, yes, I know it was your opinion, because I also know it's not fact. The problem is that part of your opinion doesn't make much sense to me, which is why I think it's important to discuss it.
Your list is interesting, but again it's full of misleading generalizations. Yes, many of these are skills that are helpful for a novelist to have. But it's dangerous to say "This is what makes a novelist".
1) The problem with your first item is that if you find one writer for whom this does not hold true the statement becomes invalid. It's very absolutist here. Why not just say "deprivation is a key element for many novelists"? Because there are lots of writers not writing for this reason. Such a blanket generalization makes the idea absolutist, makes it black or white, either/or.
2) Yes, novelists have to be good with language, the same way a surgeon has to be good with a scalpel or a cashier with a cash register. That seems pretty basic.
3) Well, this statement about introversion is feasible, in that it at least isn't a statement of absolutes. Is introversion helpful? Maybe. Or maybe just characteristic. Whether it's actually helpful would be an interesting discussion, I think. Certainly there are lots of novelists who aren't introverted, however. Yes, they have to be capable of spending time alone, but that does not necessarily equal introversion. And even the terms introvert and extrovert are binary simplifications of real people, who will vary much more along a scale (and might, for instance, simultaneously occupy both ends of that scale).
And certainly I see no particular reason to connect introversion with imagination. Are introverts necessarily more imaginative than extroverts? I'd want to see some evidence before believing that. Really, "imagination" is a hard sort of thing to measure, though such a study would be interesting.
4) Bad liars? Or good liars? Certainly writers create something that isn't literally true, and we manipulate words to create specific effects. Though whether that is really "lying" is debatable, as any intended deceit is in collusion with the reader.
Lol, I guess that's what it means to me. Certainly it got my fingers moving on a lazy Saturday at work. And Bane will be happy, too. That first one was just an honor's thesis. Now I got me a Masters degree. Actually, that's giving me flashbacks. My masters thesis was (cough cough) over 1200 pages. Shocking! you all say. Imagine Ink rambling on for too long a period. Never would have guessed it.
And now it looks like Mothra's going to be bringing a friend...
1.) Deprivation is overrated - Laura's right that emotional pain is needed to convey greater depth, but not deprivation (which almost implies intentional conceit).
2.) Most think they do; the best authors know when to suppress it so their works communicate w/ the masses and not a select few within their intellectual cabal.
3.) Depends on what you're writing and who you're trying to appeal to.
4.) Not sure what this means, but I'll take this space to say that introversion doesn't give one a better imagination - it just gives one the sense that he should have one.
5.) I don't drink more than twice a year, so I guess I'm screwed :)
6.) Most people are fascinated by people - otherwise magazines like People and Us wouldn't flourish. Good authors use this ubiquitous fascination to enhance their pieces with empathy/sympathy/ observation... none of which are rare traits (though incorporating them effectively into a piece of work probably is)
And again, I'm screwed b/c I'm rather particular with whom I'll converse.
7.) Seriously? Tell that to Stephanie Meyer. Love Margaret Atwood, but she's blowing smoke up her own arse. Some people can write, others can't. Some need 2 years, others 20. Some get lucky, others don't.
8.) overrated
You've painted yourself and others into a nice little box. If your goal is to create a Joycian mindf**k of overworked prose, I'd agree more, but, frankly, this a bunch of mental masturbatory bullpucky that isolates and alienates more than it validates, IMO.
Bryan - heck, I thought I was writing a bunch, but you just did another thesis... (mine was only 130 pages, full of equations and graphs and I still felt like it was overly long 8)
I was going to give you a long explanation, but I would've run out of space again. What's with these little boxes? Though, for some reason, that's never happened before. Twice in a day! I'm on a roll. Maybe I should write Mira's paper for her. If she's doing molecular biology I might be screwed. Or need a really good refresher course.
wordver: mullets.
Really. Swear I never had one.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 2:31:00 PM
Mira, people who can't stop themselves from posting are referred to as being 'serial posters'.
I think that you might be one of them - nothing wrong with that! It's a good sign!
But do you ever post in the morning, while you're eating your breakfast?
Then you're a cereal poster too.
And Ink - yes, that's the way to do it, just insert a very large 'imo' over everything that I write. That's what people should always do. But also, you have to consider that another person might have evidence that you don't have - hey, I love being wrong about stuff and then finding out about it. That's how I learn! If I think that I'm right all the time then it means I'm not learning - obviously.
I don't know how it works with you, but it usually takes me a day or two to digest what somebody else has written, and then to admit that I was wrong. This frequently happens when I'm shaving?
Also, when I said that typically a novelist will apprentice for at least 15 years... I kind of was generalizing... I didn't mean exactly 15 years.
Then again, the Atwood quotation that I provided does hold weight.
Also, there's a big difference, obviously, between a writer who gets lucky, and a person who is born with the qualities of a novelist.
E.M. Forster is a novelist,
Robert James Waller is a person who wrote a novel and got very very lucky.
They're just not the same class of writer.
I appreciate your input on this matter.
(I saw right away that this place could be a kind of forum in which powerful discussions might take place. But of course we also have to try and remember that this is a person's blog - Mr Banddsford is either tolerating us... or he's on vacation?)
Okay - I wrote the first three paragraphs of my paper. I'm inordinately proud of myself.
I'm stopping for a second because I don't want Bryan to misunderstand me - I didn't mean you wrote too much. I think it's cool that you're so into this. I don't speak for Nathan (although I'd like to - Nathan let me know when I can) about length of posts, I'm not sure what his stance is....but I was misquoting Shakespeare as in the gentleman doth protest....
He's tolerating us. :) As long as we play nice, that is. But I wouldn't play if there were personal attacks going on. I like discussion, where the ideas matter. And I like to think I hold my ideas firmly, but am always open to being convinced. Though realizations rarely come while I'm shaving, as I avoid that as long as possible. The beard helps.
And I'd agree that ten to fifteen years is probably a pretty good rough guess at an average for the whole novel apprenticeship thing. And the Atwood comment does have some traction, at least depending on how you look at it. In a literal sense, there's nothing to say that a brain surgeon couldn't become a novelist once they retire. But I think Atwood's comment nicely points out the implicit idea that many people hold that writing a novel is easy. It's just a matter of finding the time, as if the ability to write a (good) novel is naturally inherent.
I'm not so sure about the whole writer/luck division you point out. It's a very subjective thing, that decision of quality, of what's better than what. Waller's sold a lot of books and has a lot of fans. He certainly seems a novelist. Maybe he's not E.M. Forster, but that doesn't necessarily negate the fact that he's a novelist. "Luck" is a little harsh. Every writer needs a little luck... and at the same time luck is never enough. You don't satisfy that many readers without doing something right. Probably many things. It just seems sort of subjective: this one's a real novelist and this one's not because I like this one better.
My best, Bryan
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 2:52:00 PM
Also, I remember hearing The Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher, once say how much she valued debate: "Because that's where your ideas are truly put to the test," she said, "when there's fierce debate between two opposing groups."
Where debate falls apart, obviously (and this is especially true of discussions that take place on the internet), is when people are no longer exchanging ideas, but are exchanging insults instead.
Have I ever participated in one such debate (because my ego got the better of me?) - yes, of course, many times.
You've been tip top here, and very friendly, so I hope I didn't imply you were making personal attacks. I wouldn't have kept chatting if you weren't open to honest discussion, which you've always seemed to be.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 3:39:00 PM
For 1:26 and 11:10,
It's BRANSFORD, not Brailford. Do not get that wrong, not here. Not Bradford, BRANSFORD. Don't miss it, don't joke about it, get it right. At least have the courtesy to type the name right, he's humoring you and letting you air your thoughts and the others are humoring you and adding to the discussion even though you essentially hijacked the thread away from a true examination of agent/writer connections which would have been on topic.
That's fine, sort of, you may be a troll but the topic is interesting enough and the others clearly agree. And the first mistake you made on Mr. BRANSFORD's name may have been just that, a mistake, but the second makes me think you are a troll and a disrespectful one at that, which puts everything you're writing into a lesser context.
The antidote is simple: get his name right or don't use it, refer to our moderator or the owner of the blog, etc.
So, rail away, pontificate all you like. But show some respect, please. You're being accorded as such.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 4:43:00 PM
About Mr. Bransford's name - I was just joking!
And if you had read this section in its entirety then you should have understood that I was just joking.
You're taking this too seriously.
And quite frankly, there's a huge, huge, huge difference between a person who's trying to lighten up his own post with a joke, and a person who's deliberately trolling a public forum or a comments section such as this.
(That said, if Mr. Bransford was offended over the deliberate miss-spelling of his name on my part, then I unconditionally apologize for having given offense.)
Also, I wouldn't want to detract from the discussion at hand, but I actually was responding to the discussion at hand.
Mr. Bradford... Bransford posted a set of links. I was responding to what I read having followed those links. Presumably, that's why he posted them - so that we would read the associated articles and blogs.
I'm not going to agree with everything that I read, however, and being a writer (like everyone else here), I tend to write responses to what I've just read (like everyone else here!).
Glad to see you're all having a good time - remember first-grade playground rules are in effect - don't make me get the lunch lady.
Okay, back to the original thread.
NATHAN I have a question - has novel word count changed much in the last few years? Wondering because with the economy and all. Is it cheaper or easier to sell a shorter work say 60k as opposed to 80k? Or does it not really matter?
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 5:10:00 PM
Yeah, wow, I agree Michael, your just joking, some people, sheesh.
Re deprivation I think you have3 a good point, it's something lacking that you feel missing there that you're trying to make up for or something. All artists have it in common, though I think that any person who tries really hard to get something, obsessively, that signals being deprived of something at some point in their life.
I agree too with the others, that's not all that you need, but you can probably trace the development of an artist to something beyond the norm, that most people don't have to deal with. So in other words it's not necessarily heartbreak based on two people not being able to work things out. But it would be there with someone who lost a loved one who died. Divorce too, not everyone deals with that, or disability.
I have always wanted to write. Always. As soon as I knew there were words and books (my first case of writer's block came when I couldn't complete my opus about cats going camping because I could not spell "tent"). Unless we are talking about some very early childhood trauma/narcissistic injury, I can't see where deprivation fits into that impulse.
There are a million theories out there about creative people and what drives them to create (including a number on the relationship of creativity to mood disorders, which is really interesting stuff IMO).
The simplest one I've ever heard is that we create because it makes us feel good. Which kind of works for me.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 5:39:00 PM
I've come back from a beautiful wedding and reception to find that all my words were for naught.
I weep.
With that said, here’s my response to the list: (I trust that IMHO is understood)
1. All humans suffer from some form of deprivation - every single one of us. But self-deprivation, well, that’s another thing altogether.
In fact, we don’t necessarily write from personal experiences. Some of us explore experiences that are not our own through our writing. Certainly, most readers read to experience situations, emotions, and lives that are not their own. I know that I do.
2. We may or may not possess an exaggerated understanding of language. I believe that we write to satisfy our need to express ourselves. I know that I write as a means to examine life, people, events and possibilities.
3. Many authors are extroverts. I am an extrovert. I love talking to people. Even when I spend hours alone, writing, I am ultimately speaking to my readers. If I am fortunate, I will be speaking to my readers long after I am dead. However, I am an introvert in that I am self-examining. I ask myself, why. I ponder, and, then, I talk or write about it.
4. I am a liar in that I am human – not because I am an author. In fact, authors of superb fiction fabricate stories that contain within them extraordinarily complex truths.
5. I am not an alcoholic. However, my AAA sponsor might not agree. I’m just kidding – hiccup – there I go ‘tale- telling’ again. ;)
6. Some of us like people, but others do not. As varied as humans are – so are authors. Therefore, some of us write humor, horror, revelations, literary, romance, etc. The list is as limitless and as varied as our individual personalities, experiences, dreams and fears.
7. Novelists make time to write because we have something that we want to explore and/or say. How much we dedicate to the craft is based on individual choices and capabilities (i.e. freedom).
8. Martyrdom is not required.
I have genuinely enjoyed this intellectual examination of authors’ motivations. Thank you - Goose, Bane, Ink, Mira, Other Lisa, other Anonymous (es) – for a lively and fun discussion.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 6:21:00 PM
Martyrdom is not required, says the chap who comes back from his soiree to find his words were 'all for naught.' Sorry, dude, couldn't resist. I completely agree with your pov in that it's yours but there is no one truth for anyone when it comes to writing. There are as many truths as there are writers. Introvert, extrovert, deprived, not deprived, different, same, same, different.
I go away for less than a day... and the whole "deprivation" discussion explodes.
I'm overwhelmed by all the groovy sentiments here - and nearly rendered speechless, so while I ponder my life as a poor, introverted, language-lovin', people-understandin' "true" novelist, I should just point out that I'm not an alcoholic. A tea-aholic, yes. Alcoholic, no. So, I guess I'm not a "true" novelist after all.
Sniff, sniff. Whatever shall I do now? Stop editing my novel and become a park ranger?
I’m very late reading these, but I’m commenting on the 7/24 posting:
INK: Very well said about Michael’s points. You brought up a lot of things exactly as they were in my mind. What an interesting name you have. Can I use it for one of my characters?
MICHAEL: I happen to agree with you about a writer’s ability to learn and improve their craft. Where we differ in our opinions is that years of diligent effort does not always equal proficiency. I have spent years - since the day I first realized crayons can make pretty pictures - trying to draw. After many years spent watching PBS and other networks teach the basics of drawing, I can say that I’ve finally graduated from stick figures, but nobody will ever pay me to draw their portrait. Practice doesn’t make one perfect.
As for not getting the “Agent” to read your submission instead of a clerk, I’m sure the clerks are well trained (many of them aspiring Literary Agents themselves) to recognize obviously amateurish work or specific things the agent refuses to work with. I guess I understand this process because of own career choice. I am the person my clients most want to see, but I am also the last person in screening process. And why would a “novelist” query an agent who clearly states if you don’t meet their criteria on the first try they never want to see your name again?
OTHER LISA: Kudos! Tell it like it is and make no apologies.
......dhole
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 7:14:00 PM
Laura -
Wow. Sorry, my eyes are popping out of my head. Anyway, take heart, I don't think you need to join Forestry. Definitely don't write while you're out there, it drove Kerouac mad.
Drink instead of writing, get the heightened sense of reality that, I always say.
Whoa. Interesting discussion going on here. My own opinion of writers ... and other types of artists: musicians, painters, etc. ... is that they need to possess imagination, sensitivity, intensity, creative drive, and the sort of empathy that allows them to understand different types of people well enough to portray them accurately. When an imaginative, sensitive, creatively driven person experiences deprivation, that might give them a boost in empathy and intensity; but the deprivation isn’t actually necessary in order to create great works of art.
I was fascinated when I learned the following in grad school. It’s often believed that intelligent people are loners and don’t get along with other people. However, psychological research has shown that children with high I.Q.s usually get along well with their peers, presumably because they’re smart enough to figure out how to do that. However, geniuses with I.Q.s too high to measure by the usual I.Q. tests (i.e. I.Q.s literally off the charts) tend to be extremely cynical, presumably because they see negative patterns in human behavior that others don’t.
Here’s an interesting report published in 2003 suggesting that creativity and mental illness might spring from the same biological mechanism, BUT clarifying that both creativity and mental illness do not need to both occur for the mechanism to exist.
Writers often say things about the process of writing that’s based on their own experience, whether it’s true for all writers or not. Some great writers’ quotes:
Kingsley Amis: "If you can't annoy somebody with what you write, I think there's little point in writing."
E.L. Doctorow: "Writers are not just people who sit down and write. They hazard themselves. Every time you compose a book your composition of yourself is at stake."
William Styron, interview, Writers at Work 1958: "The good writing of any age has always been the product of someone's neurosis, and we'd have a mighty dull literature if all the writers that came along were a bunch of happy chuckleheads."
Ray Bradbury: "You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you."
Franz Kafka: "Writing is utter solitude, the descent into the cold abyss of oneself."
Interesting quotes about the art of writing :
Anton Chekhov: "Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass."
Mark Twain: "Substitute ‘damn’ every time you're inclined to write ‘very;’ your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be."
That boys/girls book thing has really got me thinking. Let me start by saying that I am the mother of a 9-year-old boy who just threw down a book last night because the word "crush" was used (And it was a Clone Wars book for goodness sake). According to this post, we raise our boys to be this way. But I think this is only partially true. I remember one day, when my son was only one year old, his daycare provider had him play dolls with the girls. But when I went to observe, although all the girls were tenderly caring for their dolls, he was smashing his against the wall. He was really too young at this point to be influenced by our culture (unless I missed an episode of Blues Clues where Steve finally lost it and started slamming animated characters against the wall).
He's nine now and just finished Lego camp--24 boys signed up. No girls. This is most certainly because Lego gears their product towards boys. But Lego seems to me to be in it for the money (Do you know how much some of those Clone Wars battleships cost?) If they could make money off Lego Barbies--I'm sure they'd do it. (After all, they can and do make round blocks as well as square ones). But girls just don't seem to be as into the build and destroy thing as boys are. Maybe this is because of the way they are raised. But maybe also they just aren't that into it. Anyway, although I am not denying that our culture is rampant with sexism, I'm thinking genetics might just play a tiny role in this boy/girl thing too. And whether it's genetics or culture, I think it's a good idea if you're writing a boy's book to avoid using the word "crush." Especially on the first page.
"Writing a book is a horrible, exhausting struggle, like a long bout of some painful illness. One would never undertake such a thing if one were not driven on by some demon whom one can neither resist nor understand."
Thanks, Nathan. Some interesting stuff here. Some of it common sense, too, but so many of us creative types lack it at different times.
I do want to say that I thought the Boy/Girl article a bit aimless. I grew up with a veritable library of books, many of them aimed at girls as I was the youngest of three with two older sisters. But I was a boy and learning to figure out what that was about. We're action oriented by nature, so it wasn't hard to find boy protagonists to study. My sister and I shared Encyclopedia Brown mysteries, but I have to say I wasn't all that interested in her Judy Blume books or Nancy Drew series. Not that I had a problem with them, I just had enough going on otherwise.
The idea that our preferences for characters reflects how we're raised just seems born of awkward logic. In fact, it feels like those times when a mother forces a brother to let his little sister tag along. It can be sweet and nurturing, but it's not indicative of anything unnatural or improper for the boy to moan a bit and reluctantly agree.
My nephew is digging the Outsiders. I suspect he has a thing for Cherry, as well. And I can tell you that I'm well pleased that he's put down his Gameboy long enough to turn a few pages. Thankfully, girls and all their exquisite mysteries are not yet one more thing to make him put it down.
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 8:23:00 PM
My list (which, by the way, wasn't even complete, since I 'ran out of space' - I'm not sure how a person runs out of space on the internet... but anyway) wasn't meant to be an absolute: I don't, for example, believe that every novelist must be an alcoholic.
I was just mentioning some of the traits that I've recognized in myself and seen in other novelists. I also find it difficult to believe that a person would advance the idea that people who are predisposed towards a certain profession don't all share certain characteristics.
No, I think that they do.
I think that if you were to examine, say, people who are doctors, then you'd begin to see certain shared characteristics emerge. It might be a very general list, but it would be a list nevertheless, and it would be a list that would be apart from other such lists.
Are you going to tell me that if we were to throw twenty published novelists into a room, and, say, twenty accountants, that we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the novelists and the accountants - that even the accounts would be capable of being novelists?
I don't believe that.
Surely novelists do share certain characteristics.
We could debate about that list (just as doctors would surely debate amongst themselves about their own list).
Well, we're kind of doing that right now, aren't we?
But as far as deprivation is concerned, I won't ever let go of the notion that deprivation has done anything other than drive me to write fiction - that writer I saw on The Charlie Rose show (I still don't know his name) summed up perfectly why I write.
I think that here we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Or let me put it this way: deprivation has guided me personally down this path, and I know of at least a couple of other novelists who have also been led by their deprivation.
Michael Younger
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 8:39:00 PM
Michael,
That's cool. I don't think it will make a difference as to you getting published or getting an agent (which I believe was what spurred your original post, the idea that agents don't 'get' writers or that Dystel or Lionetti specifically doesn't) but it's cool that you've recognized this element in yourself.
It's not a new idea, that the geeks and loners and broken people become artists, some of them, but it's worthy of discussion, as evidenced by this board.
Great links! I've read a few of them through out the week already but a few I've missed. I did like Jessica's posts but now have the habit of reading them on Facebook which detracts from being able to join the commenting discussions (maybe I'm just not understanding how to use FB properly...lol).
Anyhow, it is interesting about the boy/girl discussion. As much as people would love to have boys learn to like the girl books and not be afraid to indulge, that really isn't the point or the reason boys are uninterested. The truth is, in agreement with the above poster, boys actually do make choices early on that differ from girl's choices before they've even had the chance to observe gender roles and have an environmental influence. Before my son could talk he chose cars/trains over lip gloss or dolls. Over time my daughter has influenced him to take an interest in dolls (OH THE HORROR! please...) but he will throw a doll down in a heartbeat to pick up his hockey stick and start smacking the crap outta my shins while he screams "Goldberg the goalie!" Till this day my daughter has absolutely no interest in hockey even though Mighty Ducks clearly has girl hockey players.
I'm not denying an environmental factor, but it starts way to early to be only environmental. So in the end, yes we do need boy protags and boy words and boy everything for boys. As they grow up, they'll learn (through environmental factors hopefully) that reading the girl stuff is okay and not to put a book down for that reason, but for MG and YA, they need it. I did read the Nancy Drew, Babysitters Club, and other girl protag books but when I reached my late teens I started reading male protags and realizing they were just as good.
I've written 3 1/2 pages of complete b.s. I am so proud of myself I could bust. I only have 1 1/2 pages of more b.s. to go.
A very germane question - Nathan do you rep. 5 page papers? I'm thinking of querying you when I'm done. It's going to be a masterpiece, with references and everything.
That said, Bryan I must address the ice cream issue.
Here's the thing. You're the man. That means you do the manly labor of building a catapult that will fling ice cream from San Francisco to Canada.
I'm the woman. That means I do the domestic work of driving to the 7-11 to pick up Pecan Praline.
I'm not usually one for gender divisions, but I can live with it here.
Let me know when you're done with the catapult. I've already got the 2 gallons of ice cream ready to shoot over the border.
I heard Frank McCourt speak in St. Louis in 2000 and he said people had asked him why he didn't write Angela's Ashes earlier. His reply:
"I was teaching high school English before. You can't write a book when you're teaching--you're dead when you get home and you have papers to grade. You can write a book if you're teaching college but that's the biggest racket there is."
Frank McCourt also said, "You have 20 years to write your first book and a year to write your second."
Anonymous said, on 7/25/2009 10:18:00 PM
Michael,
May I pick the accountants?
My degree is in accounting.
I was awarded the Wall Street Journal Student Achievement Award, inducted into Phi Kappa Phi, and graduated magna cum laude.
I have been designing, developing, and implementing information systems (programs) for ten years.
I have won creative writing awards, and I have written a thriller.
And, no, I am not just making this up for the sake of argument. I am admitting to being a real nerdy, nerd. (And I'm proud of it)
Besides, I guarantee you that I could put twenty authors from different genres in the same room and find as many differences between them as the accountants (remember, I get to choose the accountants).
And let’s not forget there are many authors with diverse backgrounds:
• Kathy Reichs (Forensic anthropologist) • Patricia Cromwell (Technical writer and then a computer analyst) • John Grisham (lawyer) • David Baldacci (lawyer) • Michael Crichton (doctor)
Of course, there are more... I’ve just listed the first few that came to mind.
I am genuinely sympathetic to anyone, author or not, that has experienced a relentless deprivation of any kind. I am especially sympathetic to alcoholics, but I am compelled to point out that your severe generalizations are potentially demoralizing to other would-be authors.
I am confident that is not your intent.
Yes, authors do share certain characteristics to varying degrees. But we do not share them all - or - to the same degree.
I agree with Marylyn’s statement: “writers … possess imagination, sensitivity, intensity, creative drive, and the sort of empathy that allows them to understand different types of people well enough to portray them accurately.“
BTW: I have no doubt that your writing is driven by your personal deprivations. And I agree that severe suffering has driven many brilliant people to become authors – and a few to become brilliant authors .
I suspect that you, too, may be such a brilliant person. And I am hopeful, that your writing will give you the same satisfaction and resolutions that mine has given me – regardless, if I am ever published or not. (but, ugh, I want to be published)
What you and I unequivocally have in common is writing. That’s enough for me.
On the remaining issues, I hereby respectively agree to disagree. I hope to be hearing more from you in the future.
--- Speaking of writing --- I have to get back at it. I just learned that I have to cut more words.
If I don't hurry, the standard word count might drop as production prices increase. I could be chasing this forever. ;)
Whew, finally read them all. And several of the links. And still, I’m behind on reading several of the last week’s postings by Nathan. I don’t normally follow the comments section this long - though I still proclaim myself a Lurker - but it has been interesting reading. Not to beat a tired horse, but on the subject of Deprivation:
What would constitute deprivation in a novelists (or should I use the term writer) life? Does it have to be recent? Can the deprivation change over the years?
For myself (IMO) I am deprived of several things. I am deprived of the empty nest syndrome because my adult children haven’t become employed and moved out. Just as I was seriously getting involved in the discussion between Ink and Michael, the dern brats come out from their own blogging adventures to inquire “whats for dinner”. I am deprived of the time and creativity needed to finish the final flashback scene in my novel because of working a day job. Said day job deprives me of the time I’d like to spend in not only writing on my book, but in researching and querying agents when that last, blasted memory is finally integrated into the revision. I am deprived of an end date for the revision process because when I have time to take classes, read articles or attend classes I learn new things to do to improve the current version.
The most critical thing I am deprived of is a nice geek/nerd boyfriend who understands all the ins-and-outs of creating blogs, websites, profiles. I am deprived of said boyfriend because I lack the skills to navigate such simple programs as Twitter and Face Book. Not to mention a complete inability for the fine art of texting. My dream boyfriend, as an introvert naturally, is waiting out there somewhere in cyber land; maintaining his blog, checking his favorite sites, and not finding me because I haven’t figured out process yet.
I did manage to sign up for Face Book, and completely by accident, managed to upload a picture. I am deprived of the knowledge to change the picture to something much more flattering.
OH! Such a sad story of deprivation. Yet somehow, I carry on; though I haven’t seen an offer of Butter Pecan ice cream in ages. . .
Saddest of all; I am sipping on the last glass of wine in the box and deprived of the funds to purchase a new one because payday is still a week away. Why, oh why, hasn’t an agent contacted ME and cured all my deprivation with a single six digit check?
But seriously folks, I have enjoyed this posting. The discussion has been quite interesting. And Michael, I loved the creative way you managed to insert a misspelling of Bransford at least once in every comment.
Oh, Donna, I almost spit out my Bailey's nightcap when I read your post... and then I realized you were serious, and I felt bad for laughing. But I'm with AM... we're in need of a good Erma Bombeck these days.
Okay, I read all the comments. Wow. I wouldn't even know where to begin. I feel argued out just reading this - an unusual occurance for me. Nice debate!
Very cool. Love this blog.
Nathan, in my self-absorbtion, I forgot to thank you for running a workshop. I don't know if you've done that before, so I'm not sure if I should congratulate you exactly, but I can say that I have no doubt you will be informative and generally awesome.
Jen P said, on 7/26/2009 4:20:00 AM
Great links - I'm now late making family Sunday lunch, maybe I can enlist some of those "fastest" skill people and get it done on time - but great links.
What about the Plastic Logic Reader? I keep on about it - and I think even Apple will be competing hard against this device due out in 2010. I expect the different devices will soon start to drive their campaigns for different niches of the market - Kindles for fiction via the big Amazon link. PLR for text book/educational use, Apple for ?Business aka the Blackberry of text...watch this space?
And I can't be at the secret workshop, but if it becomes an annual event I would attend in future.
No, you were right the first time. It was meant, mostly, as a funny. The only serious comments in that was that I really enjoyed the discussion, and Goose's deliberate name misspellings were a hoot even before he admitted they were on purpose.
My funny bone was definitely tickled..........dhole
Anonymous said, on 7/26/2009 12:06:00 PM
goose, you seem angry to me and frustrated that you aren't published, but ranting and raving at an agent's website ain't gonna help you out there, bro.
and deprivation - wtf? Does anyboby know what that he's talking about? Doesn't have much to do with writing. Ain't why I write, bro. Speak for yourself, not for others.
Getting the agents name wrong at his own website is not funny, it's stupid and insulting.
I can't speak to the challenges of writing a novel (as I do not write fiction) but in trying to get an agent let me say this:
When you query an agent, you are asking that person to invest time and money in you. The burden is on the writer to persuade the agent that it is in the agent's best interest to do so.
Complaining about what an agent should or should not do is a waste of time and energy. You have no control over what other people will do. Concentrate on controlling yourself. If one agent doesn't appreciate your work or doesn't respond as you would like, try another agent. Or change your work as needed. Those things are under the writer's control.
Donna I liked your deprivation post - that was funny. And I get your point - I think Nathan can take a joke very well - but I'm going to side with the Anons on this one.
Use Nathan's name correctly.
Michael, you've already apologized, so I'm not really talking to you at this point - I'm just stating my opinion. If someone is trying to open a dialogue, starting that dialogue with subtle insults, even to make a point, is self-defeating.
And I'm also stating my opinion that Nathan deserves professional courtesy and respect at all times.
I'm almost finished the catapult. Please send me a few tubs of Butter Pecan ice cream for, um, test firing. Yes. Test firing. Then I'll ship you the catapult.
Sure you can use my name for a character. I accept cash, credit or debit, and offer a number of very reasonable payment plans geared to every income bracket.
:)
Anonymous said, on 7/26/2009 1:24:00 PM
Anonymous,
I've already stated that in no way, shape, or form was I intentionally being antagonistic towards Mr. Bransford when I wrote his name incorrectly - it was an intentional misspelling on my part, and an 'attempt' to lighten up the conversation.
Honestly, it shocks me that people will respond to jokes in this manner. This is the reason politicians are told never to make jokes on the spur of the moment - one out of every ten will backfire on them.
I'm not a politician. I'm a writer - or I should say, I'm 'trying to be one'. (I don't seem to be having much success here, though.)
But honestly, your own comment is a little harsh, and, 'imo', rather unfair.
You wrote:
"Getting the agents name wrong at his own website is not funny, it's stupid and insulting."
Apart from what I've written above, can anybody else see what's wrong there?
I think everyone would agree that there is some truth to most of your statements. But there's a long way between "some truth" and "The Truth". You said you weren't trying to make absolute statements, and yet you keep using words like "all" and "every". "All" is note some, or many, or most, it's everyone. I don't think anyone here is denying your own experience, or your interpreation of what's made you as a writer (deprivation). The problem is that you keep trying to extrapolate this outward onto all writers. You're trying to define our experiences, which you know nothing about. Maybe it's just the structure of your rhetoric, but it seems troubling how you keep trying to label and divide everything. True novelists on one side and the hacks and the lucky on the other. Writers on one side, accountants on the other. This isn't entomology, and we can't pin these things to a board and stick a neat little label on them. They're fluid and shifting. Any such grouping can only, at its best, be summed up by an average, an average which will always have extensive exceptions. And such averages will always be meaningless in any individual sense, as each indivdual will be the result of unique circumstances, the creation of a personal history, a personal geography, a personal genetic inheritance, a personal system of memory. A generalized summary capable of accurately encapsulating evry writer would be so shapeless and vague as to be almost useless.
I think your comments are most effective when you simply admit their subjectivity and offer them as personal testimony. I'm guessing your ideas about deprivation and the drive to write and create will resonate quite strongly with some writers. Just don't try to push it on all of us. We're not you. I think we can respect your experience (it's difficulty and transformative power). I just think you should also respect ours.
My best, Bryan
And apparently Mothra's bringing three friends. Maybe I can use the catapult... Anyone know if giant flying insects like Strawberry Ripple?
Ink, you're almost done with the catapult. Wow. You're the man, mister.
Although, you know - a catapult that flings things from San Francisco to Canada - we might find some creative uses for that.
But okay, I'm sending you some ice cream for testing. I couldn't squish the round box into an envelope. I tried, but it kept oozing out. So I gave up and just scooped the ice cream directly into the envelopes. You didn't care about the box right?
So anyway, you should get the envelopes in..say...10 days. Enjoy!
Michael Younger – Good luck with your writing. You definitely seem to have the determination and dedication it requires.
Mira and Ink – May I have chocolate ice cream delivered by catapult as soon as you open your ice cream catapult business? I’d also be interested in mocha lattes delivered the same way. :)
Anonymous said, on 7/26/2009 3:12:00 PM
Woooooo!
I lit up a big fat doob and read the whole thing... get it all published... great read... anybody here ever tried writing a book about peeps leaving their comments behind like this?
could be great if you got all the voices right...
anyhow, my own contribution, I only right when I'm high... don't know why...
Marilyn, absolutely, love to! Ink, would you mind making it so the catapult swings? That way we can hurl some chocolate ice cream and mochas to Marilyn. Yummmm. I'll even throw in some San Francisco Sourdough.
We can send things all over the country this way. What about sending agents would be impressed?
Tim-bo, someone should write about the on-line culture, with samples. It's a fascinating world.
Okay, finished the unedited final draft of my paper. I told the professor the textbook was wrong, wrong, wrong. Boy, this thing should be published.
I think serious customers will be willing to purchase water towers – with tops that open to receive incoming ice cream or other treats. For mocha lattes, I will purchase two water towers. :)
Darn, I thought you were going to catapult agents directly into our homes where they could read our completed manuscripts ... you know, so we don’t have to write those pesky query letters. I would be willing to serve as many mocha lattes ... or as much hard liquor ... as they require.
Yeah well whatever... nope, sorry, can't fix it... won't let me edit it... guess your gonna have to live with it. Everybody needs an editor, ever heard that before. Yeah, i agree with Bryan, i can see why you kind of irritate people... anyway i'm too wasted right now for this.
Tim-bo
Anonymous said, on 7/26/2009 10:08:00 PM
Michael,
I don't think you're irritating.
This has been one of the more interesting discussions that I've followed lately.
Ink and Marilyn. Lol. Charging extra to have an agent catapulted into your living room. Great idea. We should make up a price list for where the agent lands. Okay, we're going to be so rich ....so rich, why, we might be able to afford an airline ticket.
Come to think of it, maybe the airlines should be nervous right now. Catapult travel might be the way of the future....
Anonymous said, on 7/26/2009 10:33:00 PM
I've had a funny feeling, since Friday, that some of the people posting here have been posting under multiple aliases.
I know have been.
Are you guys all really who you're saying you are? I don't know, I've just got a funny feeling about this thread.
I like this place a lot though - you guys are a lot of fun.
Marilyn, did you ever watch Star Trek: The Next Generation?
You've heard of people who are afraid of flying?
There was an episode of ST:TNG in which one of the meeker characters, Lieutenant Reginald Barclay, was suffering, not from aerophobia (the fear of flying), but from 'transporter psychosis', which is the fear of being beamed from one location to another via the transporter.
Now THIS was great writing.
It was a charming little episode, chiefly because we got to watch the lovable Reginald Barclay attempting to confront and overcome his greatest fear.
Barclay - or Broccoli, as he was sometimes called - was my favorite minor character in that series, and it was always wonderful to see the actor's name crop up during the splash credits (Dwight Shultz is his real name).
Michael Younger
Anonymous said, on 7/26/2009 11:21:00 PM
Michael,
Glad you're here.
And I can whole-heartedly swear that in our discussions I have been and remain....
I’ve seen some Star Trek episodes, and Next Generation is my favorite of all the Star Trekseries by far. I’ll have to check out the episode about "transporter psychosis". Awesome concept. I’ve been watching the new Outer Limits shows recently – watched one tonight about weird effects of dark matter.
Anonymous said, on 7/27/2009 12:20:00 AM
Anonymous,
Reveal yourself!
Here, I'll reveal myself - I'm convinced that some people here are posting anonymously, anyhow, even though they've clearly registered proper user names.
Anytime you see The Goose, that's me, Michael Younger.
I was also this guy:
-----------
"goose, you seem angry to me and frustrated that you aren't published, but ranting and raving at an agent's website ain't gonna help you out there, bro.
and deprivation - wtf? Does anyboby know what that he's talking about? Doesn't have much to do with writing. Ain't why I write, bro. Speak for yourself, not for others.
Getting the agents name wrong at his own website is not funny, it's stupid and insulting."
----------
I also posted twice as Tim-bo (or as Timbo).
My good friend Timbo seemed to be having a pretty good afternoon there - lit up a doob, and sat back and read all the comments, and even suggested a book idea. And quite frankly, I've always wished that I could let loose like that. Why are females always attracted to guys like that? I don't get it.
But then he turned kind of nasty there, as usually happens when a person starts coming down from whichever pharmaceutical medication they've been on.
And all I did was point out that his post was not grammatically correct!
----------
"Michael,
Yeah well whatever... nope, sorry, can't fix it... won't let me edit it... guess your gonna have to live with it. Everybody needs an editor, ever heard that before. Yeah, i agree with Bryan, i can see why you kind of irritate people... anyway i'm too wasted right now for this.
Tim-bo"
------------
Yeah, that was a pretty nasty comment. I really took it on the chin there.
Back on the topic of Justine Larbalestier and the lack of "persons of color" on the covers of books... we lost Frank McCourt this week, but we also lost E. Lynn Harris, who as far as I could tell had great success not only with book covers featuring black people, but book covers featuring obviously bisexual black people.
I worked at the airport in Atlanta in the mid-90s, and it seemed that every woman who passed through was reading "Invisible Life."
(I'm frustrated that I'm not pubished, too, but I don't feel deprived, and I realize that one of the biggest reasons I'm not published is that I'm only a third of the way through my book, which I'm polishing as I go. Over and over and over...)
Marilyn, that's amazing - they have actually transported something? Wow.
I wish they'd transport me to the Harry Potter Park. Now, that's going to be fun! :-)
And TNG is the absolute best one.
Anonymous said, on 7/27/2009 9:03:00 AM
Great couple threads going on here and a mystery subplot of ´who was who´. Seriously enjoyed myself here this past weekend. Thanks for such a cool place to hang out, Nathan.
Michael, I had alot of fun when I discovered blogs; they can be an amazing playground for a writer.
That said, I'm afraid that I'm going to find it irritating if you play games around identity here at this particular blog. That's just me; I'm not speaking for anyone else. It's just that it's a distraction from some really exciting and interesting things that are happening here.
Jeez, I was just going to post to brag about my best Minesweeper score. It looked like the "world's fastest" was 38 seconds, and my own record is 40 seconds. I probably could have improved my score, but I graduated college and had to leave the sport behind...
Okay, back to reading the comments about Deprivation.
Anonymous said, on 7/27/2009 11:35:00 AM
Mira,
And yet I can't help but comment that you weren't exactly annoyed by Tim-bo's comments when he was saying nasty things about me.
Indeed, the first comment, by the other guy, you actually agreed with!
You weren't actually annoyed by the posts until you discovered that I was the one who wrote them.
So I shouldn't have said anything then - and you would have been alright with that?
I'm not sure what difference it makes: a comment is a comment, no matter who posts it. We should be judging the comments, not the people who are posting those comments.
Please don't take advantage of the anonymity afforded by the comments. I really don't want to switch off the anonymous option, which up until this point has been very rarely abused. You're welcome to comment about the topic(s) at hand, but anything overly tangential will be deleted to keep things on track.
Michael, like all of us, I have to pick and choose which posts I refer to, including disagreements between people. If I commented on everything, Nathan would start.....deleting my comments. Trust me on this.
I understand that blogs are alot of fun. I have done things on blogs that I eventually learned weren't appreciated. So I adjusted. Doesn't mean I can't particpate and feel welcome here.
I enjoyed the post from Jane Dystel. Thanks for keeping us well-informed, Nathan.
Anonymous said, on 7/27/2009 12:37:00 PM
Nathan,
Okay, I won't do it again. (I promise.)
And you can delete this comment right now if you like (though I hope you don't): but I find it slightly strange that a person, or people, would get upset about a person's comments only after discovering the identity of the person who wrote the comments.
Doesn't that interest you at all?
When we're reading a work of fiction, obviously everything we're reading has been made up by just one person - the novelist.
Everything on those pages is a deception - and if we're really and truly lucky, then it's not just a deception, but a grand deception.
The difference here, at present, it seems to me, is that people simply weren't provided with advanced knowledge of that deception.
That's it.
That's the only difference.
When I'm reading a novel, and two characters are presenting me with opposing viewpoints, I don't say, 'oh, this is nonsense, the novelist is playing games with me here, I just want to know what the novelist thinks, not about all of these various made up viewpoints' - no, I actually weigh what each character has to say, even though I'm fully aware that, in reality, all of this is being written by just one person.
Why do we need to know in advance what's real and what's not?
I don't understand that at all.
Some people are advancing the idea that what I did was somehow 'off topic', which is why they were irritated by it.
And yes, I'll admit that Tim-bo went a little off topic there (or rather, that he didn't really contribute much) - but I get the feeling that people here would have objected even if Tim-bo had remained on topic.
What if Tim-bo had actually generated the most profound comment here in the comments section! Would we have obliterated Tim-bo from the discussion for that! Holy mackerel that just blows my mind!
I can't speak for others here, but as I've been in "lurk mode" over the weekend, quietly reading the seemingly endless conversation about deprivation, catapults, ice cream, and the like, I have found your "hijacking" of the thread a little disconcerting. While it's been entertaining, to an extent, I hope that it won't be a habit with you. I actually did suspect that you were having a conversation with yourself (via Tim-bo) - and I was slightly irritated, even before my suspicion was confirmed.
I've only been a regular visitor/commenter on Nathan's blog for the past four months, but in that time, I've learned a lot about the art of writing and the business of publishing - not just from Nathan, but from all the wonderfully diverse commenters here as well. And while humor is prevalent here - in Nathan's posts as well as throughout the comments - I like that the majority of commenters are respectful of one another, trying to the best of their ability to stay on topic while expressing their unique viewpoints and tossing in a bit of wacky humor from time to time. While I, for the most part, enjoyed the wacky discussion this weekend, I just hope that it won't be a regular occurrence. All I ask is that you bear in mind the overall intention of this blog. If you long to be the main voice of a comment thread such as this one, you could always try starting your own blog.
Of course, it's just a suggestion. As I stated earlier, I can't speak for anyone but myself.
I must say, Mike, you have profoundly odd logic. A novel is not a deception - it's a fiction. There's a difference. And the fact that the reader knows it is a fiction is important, even though you shrug it off. Reading a novel is a joint project, a creation that results from the contribution of both the reader and the writer. But you were simply trying to deceive and trick people. No one likes to be deceived.
James Frey wrote a memoir with lots of fabrications that he passed off as true. And when caught out many people were angry - they had been deceived. Does that mean there's no literary merit in the project now? Of course not. But fiction and fact are not the same thing, and people don't like the feeling of being tricked.
And part of the problem is that there didn't really seem to be a point to what you did. Your fabulations didn't seem to say anything substantive - it was more like a silly little dialogue with yourself. And why would anyone comment? Timbo didn't really say anything worth commenting on. "He" said you were irritating, but you're a big boy and can presumably take care of yourself. If he'd crossed the line Nathan would have deleted the comment.
Again, I'm just not sure I see the point. You suggest that Timbo could have said something profound... if he had, people probably would have responded. He didn't. And if you have something profound to say, why not simply say it? Why hide behind Timbo? It seems like gamesmanship rather than an attempt to have an honest discussion. And no, no one else was doing that. The people participating were mostly regulars, commenting as they usually do under their normal names. Most weekend commenters are regulars, the ones who like tracking the friday conversation threads. So that was just you playing that game, I'm pretty sure.
And I don't think the people here are closed off enough to react only to your name rather than to your comments, if that's what you're worried about. Lots of room for both disagreement and respect. Heck, Nathan is a Sacramento Kings fan and I'm still here. Possibly out of pity, I admit. It's very sad when there's no one to ring those cowbells for...
Re: Deprivation as motivation for novelists - novelists as alcoholics - novelists as introverted - ??? - I've only written 1 novel - motivation: I remember the '67 riots in Detroit, from my childhood - I could never understand WHY? Why did this happen? So writing the novel was a way of answering why, to my satisfaction (although you probably couldn't tell from reading the novel). And then after the riots (rebellion, civil disturbance), my grandmother wanted us to drive her around, so she could show us all the boarded-up, bricked-up, cinder-blocked-up windows: "Look what THEY did. There won't be a single window left in the city." They? But you live here too, Grandma...
WHY? and THEY?
Maybe it's not just that every novelist has a different motivation, but every NOVEL has its own motivation.
And I hate the idea that only through drug use can writers "loosen up," or get the creative flow going, etc. Someone once told me, the first time he tried pot, he remembered something from when he was 14 years old - I said, "well, you could just write in a journal, and remember something from when you were 14..."
Re: Introverted - sometimes people act "introverted" around others, because they don't feel safe, or respected - or maybe they aren't native speakers of a particular language - or there are class differences (yes I know, US is supposedly a "classless society") - and maybe a novelist puts themselves in more situations where the above holds true...
Regarding "true identity" issue on blog - don't really care one way or the other.
I was also getting the feeling that there were too many "annonoymous" posts, and was starting to think most of those had to be the same person. What happens when you pull a joke like that is that you tend to make it harder for the next annonymous person to be taken seriously. Just because someone may not stick around long enough to create an identity doesn't mean he doesn't have something useful to say. But because the posts from Anon's was getting way out of hand, I'd pretty much decided to ignore anything under the post, regardless of what the end signature said.
So thanks Michael, and whoever else you've been playing at, for letting me know not all "annonymous" persons are here just to get their need for attention satisfied. ..........dhole
hmm, I like my word verif: larail. Larail; what pretty character name.
Hi Nathan, I think I'm first on the waiting list for your workshop - Books, Inc. told me they were just waiting to see if you'd agree to go up to 30. I've been to a couple of SFWC (but didn't pitch to you) and I've followed your blog for over two years, so I hope I have the opportunity to attend the workshop and meet you in person. An added bonus would be meeting some of the local folks who are posting here. So, uh, don't forget to call Books, Inc. back, okay? :-)
First off, writer and Star Wars novelist Aaron Allston recently had to undergo some major heart surgery, and the Fandom Association of Central Texas will be hosting a charity auction on July 19th to help him with his medical bills. Please check that out, and see Colleen Lindsay's blog for more info.
It's beach time of year and I know many of you are looking for a great book that can withstand some sand and sun. You don't have to look any further: Friend of the blog Jeff Abbott's awesome new thriller TRUST ME is coming out in just a few days, so now's the time to pre-order or look for it next week at your friendly neighborhood bookseller. Jeff is counting down on his blog with an inside look at how he went about writing it.
Guest blogger week guest blogger Eric's new blog is dropping a massive heap of awesomeness on the Internet, and if you aren't reading and subscribing to his new blog Pimp My Novel, well, you're just beyond hope aren't you?
I'm a big fan of the New Yorker's book blog The Book Bench, and this week they had an interesting summary of an essay by indie publisher Eric Obenauf about the rise of indie publishers and what could cause the downfall of the major publishers. I don't agree with all of Obenauf's claims (I think it may be the first time in recorded history that publishers have ever been accused of embracing e-books too heartily), but his perspective is definitely an interesting one.
And finally, in yet another example of my strange interests....... behold. The past and future of plate tectonics and continental drift!! (via KK Lifestream)
Plate tectonics bring me back to my teaching days - a group of 6th graders huddled around as I used what ever props I could to show the continents pulling apart. Thanks for the little flashback!
Well, I liked the guest posts, but I prefer yours, Nathan.
These are great links, thank you. I'm working my way through them. The writing workshops look wonderful (!) The Anne Hawkins article was really illuminating. There were alot of reasons that agents might turn down a query that hadn't occured to me. That was really helpful.
Of course, then I promptly went over there and commented about how agents as a profession are being unethical with this whole 'passionate' thing, and I'm blaming you for that, Nathan. In the future, I would appreciate it if you could only post things that are completely non-controversial, since I obviously have no self-control or sense of self-preservation. Some people would say that's not your problem or concern. However, those people are seriously under-estimating my determination to pass the responsiblity for my actions onto someone else. So, if you'd help me out here, I'd appreciate it.
Speaking of PT, I'm still waiting for California to fall into the ocean (or break away from the continent - one of those two) -- in the late 80s early 90s, wasn't that the trendy pick for California's future (and, if memory serves me well, it was supposed to already have happened)?
Love the plate tectonics video - that gives us 250 million years to figure out how to get along before we become one big, happy continent. Happy Friday! :)
Just now finished reading Alan Rinzler's blog. I always find his articles very informative, and enjoyed reading this one about choosing a freelance editor.
Kind of you to use your bully blog to assist in the fundraiser . . . Great links, as usual. Thanks for the tectonic tip. Now I know where to invest in beachfront property.
Hmmmmm, speaking of eBooks, Amazon has erased some eBooks right off people's Kindles: Some E-Books Are More Equal Than Others. I love the last three paragraphs in the article:
"You want to know the best part? The juicy, plump, dripping irony?
"The author who was the victim of this Big Brotherish plot was none other than George Orwell. And the books were '1984' and 'Animal Farm.'
People who bought Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm for their Kindle were surprised to discover that it had disappeared from their devices overnight. It turns out the publisher changed its mind about offering an electronic version, and Amazon caved into their demand to sneak into people's electronic libraries and take back the book at the publisher's request.
Oh that was just too much pity pool to post. After reading what I wrote I deleted it and decided on:
Thanks Nathan for your thoughtful links. And, the next time I seriously contemplate giving up my day job for this fickle hobby called writing, I'll take my money to the casino and let those odds decide my $20 bucks worth of fate.
And Anon: California is NOT dropping off into the ocean. Only the souther half - from say San Francisco and south.
Oh, my bad! Don't you live in SF Nathan? I don't; I'll have beach front property at the next decent earth quake!!
Shoot. I slept on it and decided I can't transfer responsiblity to you, Nathan. So disappointing. But no, IT was ready, and would have found a way to come out. Anywhere basically.
So, that's what I'm blaming. IT. That darn IT that comes out when I write, even when I post.
So IT's responsible. I would rather it be you, but at least I know it's not me. It's IT.
Great links this week. I was already following Lynn Viehl's workshops and popping in on Pimp My Novel (is that guy incredibly smart or what?).
I enjoyed Guest Blogger Week (more so because I was freaking out that there would be no new posts while you were away...imagine my surprise.) but I wouldn't want that every week.
You could just add another link on Friday's. Instead of Guest Blogger it could be Guest Blogger Link. Is that stupid? It sounded better in my head.
Great information, especially in some of the links. I'm so glad I found this blog, and really appreciate that you take the time to share all of this with us. The tectonic plate thing was really cool too!
That Kindle thing is scary, we become permanent renters of the media we buy instead of owners. I'd hate to imagine what would happen if this practice became common place.
Anonymous said, on 7/19/2009 7:21:00 PM
Please don't encourage Janet Reid. She gets way too much sycophantic love already considering her continual ranty nastiness. She has her fans, all suffering Stockholm Syndrome, I presume.
We all have parts of our jobs we don't like. She seems to think she's the only one who must suffer fools.
Reid could transform her rants into something acceptable if she ever diplayed an ounce of humor, a scintilla of kindness or an iota of grace. Seriously, she needs to dwell on her successes a little bit or take a happy pill. We can all learn from failure, but she needs to find another setting besides mocking and pissed off. Jesus!
Somebody said her rants made him feel glad he wasn't an agent himself. Reid's blog makes me awfully glad she's not my agent.
Anonymous for Obvious Reasons a la Writer Rejected
Anonymous said, on 7/19/2009 8:32:00 PM
@anon 5:21,
If Janet Reid repped my genre, I'd fire my agent in a hot second and beg her to be mine. She loves her job, loves her writers, and is continually honest about the shitty parts of the business. What's not to like?
Thermocline said, on 7/19/2009 9:02:00 PM
Anne Hawkin's piece reminded me of a point Nathan was trying to make a while back. Being rejected doesn't necessarily mean the writing/story/idea/etc. was bad. It just didn't connect with that agent. It's reassuring to be reminded of that it's not personal.
I can see how you could read Janet's postings as personal but I'd disagree. Her bluntness is great. You never wonder where she stands on an issue.
Well, I feel alittle weird talking about another agent here; it feels like talking behind someone's back - although knowing she'll read this.
....so, I will say two things.
One, yes I think Janet gets grumpy, and I've mentioned that to her - directly.
But two, she is also tremendously loyal, genuinely capable of admiring other people (a quality you really want in an agent!) and works extremely hard for her clients. She has a good heart, and a sincere dedication to the business - you can see it through her site.
No one is perfect, and I think it's unfair to dismiss someone based on only one aspect of their personality.
Why, even Nathan has made mistakes occasionally. Yet he continues to be the fair-minded, kind and admirable person that he is.
Yeah, Anon. The first Anon, I mean. I've seen Janet post with great passion and humor about writing, books and her clients. She wrote a post about the writers who had the guts to get up in front of hundreds of people and live-pitch that made me teary-eyed. It was really sweet and sincere.
An abbreviated week in publishing as I imagine the Americans among us will be jetting off early this weekend to celebrate our nation's birthday. I'll post the winners of the guest blog contest tomorrow and they'll run next week.
First up, for all you Brits from whom we stole this fine country: longtime friend of the blog and early contest finalist Stuart "Conduit" Neville's book THE TWELVE goes on sale today in the UK!!! The US version, GHOSTS OF BELFAST, publishes in October.
Via John Askins, Malcolm Gladwell published a review/takedown of freevangelist* (*trademarked - must credit Nathan Bransford) Chris Anderson's new book FREE (which had previously been subject to some Wikipedia-plagiarism claims). Gladwell notes that free doesn't really work as a business model. Seth Godin in turn published a takedown of Malcolm Gladwell, saying free is going to happen anyway. Who's right? You decide. Also you don't have to pay to read any of this.
Author/accused memoir fabricator James Frey recently co-wrote a children's book project that sold to HarperCollins and has already been optioned by Michael Bay. The Guardian's book blog has the rundown.
Mike Shatzkin wrote a provocative post on the evolving role of agents in the new publishing landscape, concluding that the new pressures on agents who previously specialized in mid- or lower-tier books (which are disappearing) could result in some new experimentation. It's a thought-provoking article no matter your take on the future of publishing. (Via Jim Duncan's Twitter feed)
And finally, the Millions put together a truly indispensable preview of one of the most indispensable publishing seasons in recent memory. This fall is going to be huge.
¡Que tenga un buen fin de semana!
30 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 7/8/2009
The Millions' list for anticipated books made me really sad. Only five books by women, and, although the accounting is a little vague to me, either 0-2 books by authors of color. Looks like American publishing has gone back to celebrating white men.
Seems like Editorial Ass could host its own list of great books... the ones left off the other lists. Hidden gems ahoy! (You've got lots of friendly blog readers to chip in suggestions...)
I see that this is not a book by Chris "The Birdman" Anderson... oh well.
James Frey's book must have lots of s*** blowing up to have gotten Michael Bay... speaking of which, saw the creepiest, most disturbing movie trailer over at RT - "Robot Geisha" - way weird. Happy 4th everyone, and Happy Canada Day to our northern territory.
As teenagers, avid readers, and buyers of books, my friends and I agreed we won't be reading James Frey's YA novel. Too many great reads out there by honest hardworking writers for us to support that con artist. No, I'll save my money for Stuart's new book which sounds fantastic. Congrats! I'm just sorry I have to wait until October!
I may have missed the boat, but where in my query do I put my race and gender? Especially nowadays, where things are done electronically, I think race has less and less to do with it.
The buying public chooses what's popular... favorite authors/genre are going to score high regardless of race or gender.
However, the highest selling genre (arguably) is romance, most of which is generaaly written by women.
Personally, I don't always know the writer's race before buying the book, much less gender. People use pseudonymns frequently.
Do people really buy books based on the sex and race of the author?
If that's the case, it's a saad commentary on our society.
Anonymous said, on 7/2/2009 3:31:00 PM
I believe we Brits (amongst others) stole the country from someone else first, so we don't really have much claim - enjoy July 4th everyone!
Northern territory, eh? Well, since you shared your wonderful economic recession with us, I guess we can return the favour and share our melting Arctic environmental disaster with you. I think New York will look pretty good half-submerged. It will be like Venice! Tourism bonus. Gotta watch out for those crocodiles escaping the sewer system, though...
Do you know what would be neat... if someone did a Millions sort of list for debut writers. What are some of the hottest newbie books coming out? They probably need the pub more than the giants.
In terms of the 'free' argument, I have great faith in human beings ability to figure out how to charge for something. Old forms of information dissemination may fade, like newspapers, but new ways to produce specialized forms of information will pop up. I also disagree about magazines - I think magazines will always be popular.
In terms of James Frey, I might be in a minority, but I really feel for the guy. There is no way to write a memoir without fictionalizing it. Every memoir class I've ever seen talks about how to fictionalize your memoir in order to make it more readable. He got a bad rap. My opinion.
The article on agents is interesting. I actually think agents should expand their role regardless of the changing landscape. Why not? Authors have a need for guidance in the areas of e-publishing, self-publishing. Why not step in to fill the gap?
That's an exciting list for Fall. I predict extra interest in kid's books with the Where the Wild things are movie coming out.
Okay, there's all my opinions. Very interesting links, thanks.
Jenna said, on 7/2/2009 7:14:00 PM
Crystal, re. The Time Traveler's Wife. Can't wait for the movie either. Fantastic book.
Nathan! Thanks for the links. I've missed your blog as I've been MIA. But things have slowed and I have my laptop back so I'll be commenting with a vengeance (after my weekend shenanigans). :)
Oh dernit. I just read you'll be MIA next week. Sigh.
Okay I look forward to the guest blogs. If I would have known I'd have entered but your cutoff was about five hours ago or so. :(
Have fun reaching out next week! There is nothing better than someone that is willing to give themselves freely to help others in need! Thanks for doing your part.
I agree with you (as I often do) - I enjoyed THE TIME TRAVELER'S WIFE to a certain extent... but I had plenty of issues with it, too. Don't fully understand the hype.
Nathan -
Thanks for the links, as always. I'm sorry I didn't have time to enter your "guest blog contest" (work and family intervened), but it sounds like you have PLENTY to choose from. 250+ - yikes!
Have a wonderful time in South America - and, of course, be careful and come back soon. We'll miss you while you're gone - though I'm excited to see the guest blog winners. :-)
Everyone - Happy Fourth of July! Shoot a firecracker for me. They're illegal where I live. :-(
nor drawn out sports clichés but I can't get an agent to cross the street to pee on me if I were on fire. I wrote a gritty piece about an 18 year old from the midwest surviving on the streets. To quote Dr. Evil..."Throw me a freakin' bone here....'
We'll start waaay back in the Great Depression. With our current economic downturn affecting..... everything, including culture, are you curious about what people were reading back then? Me too. Would you believe werewolves, dog books, and business books?
Knopf Doubleday (I'm still not used to saying that) has quite the Fall season coming up, what with books by Dan Brown, Jon Krakauer, Margaret Atwood, Pat Conroy, and Jonathan Lethem, among others. Bookseller Arsen Kashkashian takes a look at the catalog with the reverence it deserves, but calls it "Random House's Hail Mary" and discusses the decisions a buyer has to make with such a momentous list.
Speaking of bookselling, agent Andrew Zack posted a takedown of the Bookscan service, which purports to report (say that five times fast) 70% of book sales and which publishers rely on heavily, but as any agent knows, actually reports FAR, FAR LESS I SWEAR I HAVE THE ROYALTY STATEMENTS IN FRONT OF ME DON'T BELIEVE BOOKSCAN THE SALES TRACK IS FINE I PROMISE. Ahem. Little, Brown editor in chief Geoff Shandler also weighed in in the comments section.
Oh, and speaking of celebrity news, my bunker buddy Dick Cheney sold his memoir for a reported $2 million.
In news-via-John Ochwat news, speaking of Dick Cheney, there's a hilarious contest over at the Globe and Mail to name his memoir. Ooooh the possibilities.
Also via John Ochwat, John Scalzi tackles the question of why debut novelists always seem to be in their thirties (except of course for those precocious teenagers). Why is it? Well, it takes a while to write a novel, and anyway, most writer's first novels suck.
Over at Bookends, Jessica laments the poor state of communication in the publishing industry and how frustrating it is to have to chase editors who are so uncommunicative you start to wonder if they're still alive. Hear hear.
And JA Konrath tackles a tough question in a really awesome, comprehensive manner: when should you self-publish?
And finally, I'm really going to miss the King of Pop. I don't know if we'll ever again have someone who is as talented a singer, songwriter and dancer. RIP.
49 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 7/1/2009
Because a dog will always love you, no matter how much money you have. That's why they liked dog books.
Lol. Where else can I talk about stuff like this? I really enjoy your blog, Nathan.
Oh! I forgot. I have some advice for you Nathan. I start my first class tomorrow, so I had to buy the textbook. 50 bucks. 50 bucks!!
So I ordered it on-line. For 50 bucks, I expected the Hindenbury of books. But do you know how big that book was? 150 pages.
For 50 bucks. What a racket.
So, that's my advice, Nathan. Rep. textbooks. You'll rake it in.
Jen P said, on 6/26/2009 2:44:00 PM
Agatha Christie was selling in the Depression too - crime always pays.
Wait, maybe's that's the title for the memoir.
Debut authors in their 30's - he doesn't seem to mention something I would expect - publishers want to invest in good books but they also want to invest in authors who have potential to write lots of them and have a career with the house, or not? IE: You may have more potential long term payback from an author who is relatively young.
Thanks for more great links! I'll enjoy checking them out throughout the weekend.
So sad, Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, Ed McMahon, and David Carradine all recently passed away ... and suddenly barely mentioned by our TV news, there are still many people dying in Iran and Iraq.
writer said, on 6/26/2009 3:22:00 PM
I hope we can all agree that Lauren C most likely did not write her own book.
I can't even believe there's a doubt about this. To write you have to sit down, clear your head. Master characters, character arcs, dialogue, and theme. You have to write that first sucky draft and another five after it, take editor notes and be able to implement them. She got a book deal less than a year ago and the book is already out now. Does anyone honestly think in a brief eight or nine months she accomplished WRITING it?
I have no doubt she'll be great at the book tour thing, though. Being adored and having people tell her she's spectacular and whatnot. :) In fact, she should do ALL author tours; free up authors from that burden.
Konrath offer a wealth of in-depth common sense, but I take issue with two points:
1) I've heard over and over that pitch meetings at writing conferences are a waste of time and money, and...
2) If your ISBN follows you around and shows poor sales, wouldn't that say more about your ability to market your book in a sea of self-pubs than the actual contents of the book. Seems a bit fickle to snub something that barely had a chance to begin with strictly considering the numbers and available resources.
On other news, I'll miss Michael, too. In fact, I've missed him for about 15 years.
I still have my Thriller album so I can one day explain to my children what an "album" is - although I no longer have my record player so I won't be able to play it for them. Maybe they can use it as a frisbee.
I'm not touching the Dick Cheney thing, as I refuse to send any energy that man's way.
Finally, as someone hoping to be a debut novelist while still in her 30's, I don't consider that "old." Well, some days I do, but not today. Happy Friday! :)
Anonymous said, on 6/26/2009 3:59:00 PM
Jen P,
Publishers want books that will sell -- today.
Tomorrow, twentysomethings may prove to have been one-time wonders, thirtysomethings develop writers' block and fortysomethings change agents and houses... etc.
Publishing is truly about the book in hand….and the author's track record.
Each book has to earn its keep.
Sure, publishers love landing a bestselling author long-term, but tomorrow is never guaranteed.
I'd bet a publisher would pick one of the older giants: Koontz, King, Child, Deaver, Grisham, etc. over a twentysomething author – ahem – if % remain equal.
Your world is so cool. I was thinking what the links from MY world would look like from the week. Not nearly as fun. Darn.
Isn't there any sort of agent meeting you all can have where you make a pact that nobody shall sign a book by a Lauren Conrad type, no matter how many people will buy it? I know that money's money....but still. In the long run, it ain't helpin'.
Anonymous said, on 6/26/2009 4:49:00 PM
Nathan, thanks for the MJ video link. My kids can't figure out what is so great about him, but I remember Michael from the 70s and early 80s--back to the Jackson 5 era-- and he was quite an entertainer. Too bad his life (and mind) took the odd twists and turns it did. Just think what he might have accomplished if he'd held it together.
And Farrah Faucett on the same day! I think every guy in my high school had that poster and all the girls wanted her hair style. RIP MJ and FF
And the above admission of age (a few years younger than MJ, probably dooms me to unpubbed obscurity if debut authors are in their 30s.
Thanks for this. Particularly liked the link about why new novelists are in their 30s!
Lucinda said, on 6/26/2009 8:04:00 PM
Nice links. I liked the FAQ link on your site as well. You answer questions with your questions, and I find the answers.
Now, which one will cross the finish line first? The Demons? The Dragons? Maybe it will be Madison with her insane quests. Oh, could it be Lucinda's Magpie? Time will tell...
Thanks again, Nathan for a great study towards learning the craft, earning ruples to pay our dues with, and that magical wand to wave around an agent's head.
Thank you for posting the Billie Jean performance. I remember seeing it live when I was a teenager. Michael Jackson is beyond us. Your blog is a true inspiration for writing artists.
Textbook publishing is my most recent career manifestation. Nobody's getting rich there, either. Piracy, reporting issues, used books, all the things cited here.
Re: Authors in their thirties. I am not really all that cool so perhaps my high school/college years lacked the spice to provide an interesting perspective to fiction but twenty something seems so young. My twenties were about living and saving up what I learned and experienced to examine with more perspective later. I worked retail, waited tables, drank too much, lived in another country, learned another language, taught high school, started and ran my own business, met my husband, and brought a stray cat home from half way around the world. I wasn't building publishing creds but I definitely was building the foundation to write something. I certainly don't think I'm the exception...those young whippersnappers are!
I am almost embarrassed to be posting this because I try not to get sucked into the Celebrity-ness of it all...but Lisa Marie Presley's post about Michael Jackson's passing I found truly moving...
Thanks for the MJ video...not sure I would've looked it up myself, but I did enjoy just clicking and viewing...made me sad, though, and not just for MJ...it's as if a little of my own youth moonwalked past.
I was always too old for Michael and, apparently,to be a debut novelist. But that Farrah! We were the same age. Sigh.
Have a great weekend and stay well. We need you in the trenches.
Word ver: britiz--I say, old chap.
Tori said, on 6/28/2009 2:45:00 AM
I believe what you wrote about new authors being in their thirties Nathan, but I hope I can be one of the few that can get a novel publised before then. I'm only nineteen, so I really don't want to wait a decade to see my name in print. Although I could probably use a good ten years toget where I want to be in my writing:)
Anybody read the New York Observer? Nick Bilton (working on a book about "The New Business of Storytelling") has a scary quote in the Transom section:
"It would be great if we put the book out there before the printed version, and we could see if people were finishing it or falling off at certain chapters, and then maybe rework it and do real-time changes to the structure of the book as analytics come in."
That kind of sounds like taking the techniques that screwed Hollywood (but made it megaprofitable) and applying them to publishing! Fun!
Anonymous said, on 6/28/2009 12:34:00 PM
Nathan, I have a very mundane question, but I would like to do the right thing. When an agent asks for a full manuscript, and wants it sent by US mail, what kind of packaging are they expecting? Should I use a 3-hole punch, and put glossy plastic covers (front and back) on the manuscript? Or just send all 270 pages (properly-formatted, of course) loose in a box? Thanks very much for your time.
Anonymous said, on 6/28/2009 1:16:00 PM
Lara,
It sounds like Beta Readers.
Anonymous said, on 6/28/2009 8:23:00 PM
Another Death
Billy Mays, the guy that does the commercials for Oxy Clean, died in his sleep last night.
I am going to eventually self-publish my memoir: marjorie-pentimentos. But, my series of interviews will be sent as a query at some point.
Please visit marjorie-digest to read my interview with Edie Beale's, Jerry "The Marble Faun," and to see photos of me with the phenomenal filmmaker Albert Maysles and Jerry.
There are other good interviews there. You will have to open older posts.
Anonymous said, on 6/29/2009 10:35:00 AM
I was on vacation the last two weeks and hate that I missed the vampire discussions. I just want to say I never realized Nathan had so many young adults following his blog. I always assumed that we were mostly adults, so our opinions didn’t matter on YA. I kind of figure what the teenagers want to read is the important issue.
I'm late to this particularly party, but I just wanted to echo other sentiments here about the Thirtysomething Debut Novelist Theory. And all I can say is - woohoo! I'm only 32, which means I have over seven years to sell my first novel, and still adhere to this awesome new trend. Now, I don't feel so overwhelmed. Phew!
So, thanks, Nathan, for turning us onto that and many other enlightening articles...
First up, unless you have been living under a rock (or somewhere other than the US of A), you probably know that today is the premiere of "The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3" starring Denzel Washington and John Travolta, which just got a terrific review in the NY Times. On the other hand, you may not know that it is based on a classic urban thriller by John Godey that is truly awesome and gripping and a great look at 1970s NYC and whose tie-in rights may have been sold by a certain agent whose blog you happen to be reading. Please buy the book or e-book!
Meanwhile, a busy link week in the publishing industry.
Jeff Abbott pointed me to a really cool site that shows writers in the spaces where they write. I'm always fascinated by the writing process, and this is a cool inside look.
Former Random House CEO Peter Olson is back with an essay about e-book pricing and, among many points, he argues that demand should drive the price point for e-books (not any relation to print prices) and also argues that publishers are not sharing enough e-book revenue with authors. To which authors and agents say: THANK YOU. (Via Pub Lunch [subscription])
HarperStudio recently spotlighted a cool interactive map of New York's literary landmarks, which did not at all make me nostalgic for living in NYC. Nope. Not. At. All.
The millionth English word was invented!! Do you know what it was? "Web 2.0". Which is, um, two words. Or, if you want to be specific, a word and two numbers and a punctuation mark. That were already invented. Way to go, people who decided what the millionth word was. (via Neil Vogler)
In agent advice news, if you've written more than one novel but none are published, is the fifth one you're written still "your first novel" for the purposes of the query? Janet Reid says yes, and I agree.
Meanwhile, Jessica Faust tackles a tough topic. Surely in a free country everyone who wants to write should write. But should everyone seek publication?
And some funny stuff this week: first, what can books learn from the movies? Among other things: more suspenseful music, that's what. (via Christopher Ryan).
And finally, thanks to Nikki Duncan for passing along a hilarious comic about life as an acquisitions editor (or, really, agent).
Have a great weekend!
72 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 6/16/2009
Friday is movie night; I'm going to see Pelham 123 today. Yea!. Denziel Washington and John Travolta. I'm going out on a limb here and predicting good box office, and good follow-up book sales. Congrats, Nathan.
The comic is really funny, and the 'what books can learn from movies is even funnier. I wish I'd written that. Sigh. Writer's envy. It's hilarious.
I need to think about Jessica's article. That's a really interesting subject. I'm going to ponder it, and return.
First, hasn't ToP123 been set in the present? How does that compare to the 70's themes of the book?
On the map, they give an example from Gatsby in which Tom says something "impatiently". Tsk, adverbs. Don't you think agents should issue some kind of worldwide warning to new authors about borrowing from the classics? Times change, and we need to be made aware that some stuff just doesn't fly like it used to. Also, I thought these were going to be actual writer landmarks, not silly fictional ones. Boo. ;-)
Nice to know about the "first novel" rules. I'm always confused about that, because as a new writer, you don't want to be lumped into that kooky category of people who think they got it on one try 'cause their mother liked it.
And I agree, not everyone should seek to be published. Amazon is getting crowded with crap. If only there were some kind of filtering system in which certain books were set apart as fit for consumption. Hmm...
About a newbie author having various novel manuscripts stuck in a box somewhere and publishing what amounts to the fifth one actually written, isn't that why we have the term "debut novel"? Presumably, one's debut novel need not be the first thing one has ever written (and probably shouldn't be, in most cases).
Oh, and I was comforted to see how many of the authors pictured on "where I write" seem to prefer spaces filled with books and papers and piles of stuff. (I'd fit right in.)
Congrats on Pelham 123 - sadly, getting out to the movies is a once a year event for us, unless it involves talking animals and we can take the kids. As I saw no sign of talking animals in the commercials for the movie, I'll try to grab the book.
The "Kickass Lessons" link was hilarious - I learned I need to add a few explosions into my wip. Happy Friday to all! :)
Loved the comic. It reminded me of a Monty Python routine, called 'Novel Writing from Dorset' or some such.
"(Voice of Dennis) Well, this is true to form, no surprises there. He’s started five of his eleven novels to date with the definite article. We’ve had two of them with "it", there’s been one "but", two "ats", one "and" and a "Dolores"(?). Oh, that , of course, was never published."
That was an interesting thread on whether writers should seek publication, as well.
"Presumably, one's debut novel need not be the first thing one has ever written (and probably shouldn't be, in most cases)."
In my case it was, but the second revision. The first died in a crash and is not mourned. Since then I have contracted the first version of every novel/story I've ever written.
Nathan, I like Santa... it was a Bradon Fibbs article in the Colo Springs newspaper... I hope that doesn't stop you from coming back to the Pikes Peak Writers Conf.
He did say DWashington gave good performance.
Thermocline said, on 6/12/2009 3:12:00 PM
Hallmark is is already half way toward the Books Providing Soundtracks idea with their greeting cards that play music. Trendsetters?
Congratulations on The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3! I've noticed that bookstores usually showcase books with movie tie-ins while the movies are in theaters, so hopefully you'll see a huge spike in book sales this weekend. :)
Love the writers' spaces ... especially those with piles of books and papers 'cause that's what my office looks like when I'm writing.
I'm relieved to discover that a web monitoring firm, not a Dictionary company, decided "Web 2.0" was a word. The web is the Wild West.
I saw the comic about the job of an acquisitions editor when an acquisitions editor posted a link to it on Twitter. Thought it was hilarious!
Should everyone seek publication? I think it's too late to effect any changes in that regard, so the question is somewhat moot. Self-publishing companies make a boatload of money, so much so that the quickly growing Amazon jumped on that bandwagon a long time ago. I think a better question is: how do readers and writers navigate the waters of the modern publishing world?
re: Jessica Faust. Interesting. I think that if you enjoy writing or have lots of ideas milling in your head, you get them down on paper. That satisfied me for 20 years. It has only recently changed for me that I have a couple of ideas that I want to share with people...and therefore I started querying agents. I'm assuming there are others like me, meaning that not everyone IS seeking publication. For awhile at least.
I will say that my being a regular person makes me feel like I'm a big zero when I'm querying. "Hello, you don't even know my corner of the world, but I'd love to part of YOUR world."
Ahh, I wondered when I saw TOP 123 show up in your sidebar!
I love that "spaces they write in" site.
I'll admit that "Web 2.0" being the millionth word angered my linguist side. I'm usually all for arguing about the constantly evolving nature of language, but taking two words (or more, if you want to quibble on the 2.0 part) and sticking them together to make a new term whose meaning really isn't all that different...makes me a little angry. (It would mean the same thing if we viewed it as a phrase instead of one word!)
And hooray for the recognition that music is powerful, so powerful it renders a deadly-scary monster into a lost soul! (I miss standing on the highest platform, playing my copper beauties, and spying on my orchestra mates are doing...)
Congrats, Nathan, on "Pelham 123" - I was wondering about that book when I saw it in your sidebar (as one of your represented titles). No offense, but you didn't seem old enough to have rep'd it in the 70s. NOW, I get it!
I must admit I probably won't catch this flick in the theater - I LOVE Denzel (and only thought he misstepped once - in "Training Day"), but sometimes Tony Scott's look grates on my nerves ('cause, seriously, all his movies look the same... "Deja Vu" anyone?). And don't get me started on Travolta as an over-the-top bad guy. Besides, why must Hollywood continue to remake classic flicks? I love the first "Pelham 123" - I mean, how does it get better than Matthau and Shaw?
Okay, enough ranting. I'm going to see "The Hangover" instead... I need a good laugh or two.
In the meantime, thanks as always, Nathan, for your terrific links. I especially enjoyed the cartoon - and have to agree with Jessica's assessment, even if it does make me even more nervous about my own publishing efforts. :-(
Nathan, I went to see the Taking of Pelham 123 today pretty much ONLY because I remembered seeing your name attached to the novel somewhere...
I really enjoyed it. Now I'm definitely going to have to go buy the book!
Anonymous said, on 6/12/2009 6:18:00 PM
thanks as always Nathan. I just feel like sharing that I believe I write in one of the most unusual places. I live in NYC and frequently write in the women's bathroom on the fourth floor of a landmark department store. (can't name it because I don't want anyone taking my spot.) In a city where real estate is hard (and expensive) to find, this store still has ample stalls and a lounge fully equipped with a couch and chairs ... and most importantly, and outlet for my laptop. People come in and out of the space which is essential for me not to feel deprived of human interaction, and there is even piped in decent music. Best of all, I don't need to buy coffee, which is good because by the time I land on the fourth floor, I've already written for an hour in a local starbucks and had two double lattes.
Did anyone else notice something about all of those pictures? I don't think any of them have small children at home. I wonder what that's like...writing a complete paragraph without being interrupted twenty times?
Looking at the writer's workspaces is fascinating. I couldn't write in most of them, though! I need a completely clean and uncluttered space, or else I can't keep my thoughts straight.
Very pleased to see a pic of my hero, Piers Anthony in there, though! So, that's where he created some of my most treasured literary experiences :)
Vegas Linda Lou,
hahahahahahhaa! That's me as well! I have it down to a fine art though, so that I can always see the Word window that I'm writing on, but to anyone walking past it looks as though I'm doing actual work. It took me weeks of studying the angles to get it down, lol!
I haven't seen the original, so I can't compare, but I thought this was exciting. I liked both leads, Denziel especially. Travolta had some funny lines, and he was scary.
The audience clapped at the end. I think this will make people want to read the book - you don't want the movie to end.
Thanks for the links Nathan. They're awesome, like every Friday. I was all week at my first ever Writers' Conference, and I'm serious when I tell you I couldn't wait to come home to check on your blog. Have a great weekend!
Author Guy, I wasn't talking about revision. I meant that most folks begin at the bottom -- even if they're very young when the begin. And, presumably, most people get better with practice. That's all I meant. Most people also need to revise. If you don't, well, that's great. I heard Alexander McCall Smith (at a reading) indicate that he almost never revises, and he most certainly has good sales (although he's known for loose, wandering plots). I've also read that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle never revised, either, and he also had great sales. I suppose you're in good company.
Thew Original Pelham is a great movie; I'll be seeing the new one though I'm skeptical; Tony Scott, the man with the constantly jiggling camera and jump cuts.
As for music in books, I have only two words: Ennio Morricone.
Thanks for the links Nathan. I'll be going through them today. Pelham 1 2 3 looks fantastic. I have about three other movies I'm dying to see in addition so I'm not sure what month I'll get to see it. lol.
If you sold the tie-in rights to the Godey book before the original movie came out in 1974, how old were you at the time? Your photo doesn't look like you were old enough to be an agent back then!
Or did I misread your post? BTW, the original movie had great supporting characters which made it a fun and interesting flick. Were they in the book version too?
The Taking of Pelham 123 was one of my favourite movies as a kid - I remember a furious row in my house because I needed (and I mean NEEDED) to stay up late on a school night to watch it on TV. I hope the remake does it justice.
Anyway, I also have a fondness for 70s thriller novels (Marathon Man is one of my favourites of all time), so I think I'm going to have to get a hold of the book - despite a TBR pile that is taking over my living room.
I wasn't born when the book originally came out. I represent the estate, and re-sold all rights in advance of the new movie so that there would be new editions in stores when the movie came out. Here's more info on literary estate representation.
Aha! Thanks, Nathan, for the explanation and link to the older blog post.
I didn't realize you could resell movie rights for remakes... or did the original movie rights just give the producers a certain number of years to make their movie?
I didn't personally handle the movie rights, just the book rights. I can't get too much into the specifics, but I was able to re-sell the rights for the new editions of the book.
It was just pointed out to me that I might have sounded overly harsh in my "Pelham 123" rant on Friday. I was just expressing my movie opinion - not my opinion of the book or your part in its latest incarnation. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.
I'm so excited to be a part of your blog fan club - and grateful for the wonderful tips I've learned here (and new writing pals I've made). And I, of course, am happy for your accomplishment - and hope the book sells like hotcakes. :-)
My words on Friday simply reflected my general malaise about Hollywood remakes (especially when I adore the originals, as in the case of "123"). I have no doubt that I'll see the movie soon - as I do love me some Denzel - but I was feeling grumpy on Friday about the remake resurgence (given that I'm married to a struggling filmmaker) and certainly intended no ill will toward you.
I'll try to keep my grumpiness to myself in the future. :-)
Laura, I didn't think you were grumpy at all - just expressing an opinion. I got the same opinion walking out of the theatre yesteday. A theatre guy on his lunch break stopped us on the way out. He asked how the movie was, and wondered why there were so many re-makes. He liked the movie though.
So, yeah, I think film-makers stick with the known in order to make money. And that may limit the money going toward new artists. (I'll cross my fingers for your husband.) But the reality is, I would not have seen the original movie. So, at least with a re-make, the story will reach a new audience, and....sell new books, of course..
You know, I wish I had stayed to the end of the credits to see if the book was mentioned. You know: Book available at....whatever. If it's not, I throw my hands up in utter despair over the complete and total lack of marketing sense shown by the publishing industry.
I just found your blog. Thank you so much for taking the time to create it. You have done a wonderful job providing writers with some very useful information.
I was shocked when I saw the picture of Samuel Delaney and his writing space. I thought someone had put a spy camera in my space. But then I noticed that "Chip" is a little (not much) heavier than I am and his space is cleaner and has a window. Whew! Missed an attack of paranoia by this much.
Just a comment on Jessica's post about whether everyone should seek publishing. I thought she did a great job and drove home her point well. I began reading some of the comments and was a bit shocked by some of the commenters that not only took offense, but others took a totally different approach to suggest the banning of full genres.
I would not be so brazen to say such a thing no matter my thoughts or opinions of specific genres (least of all my worries are teen vampire books - lol). I was just shocked. WOW.
Anonymous said, on 6/14/2009 4:23:00 PM
I'm confused. I don't think you were born when the book first came out. So what exactly did (or do) you rep?
Sorry to separate all these comments so I'll try to make this my last.
The million word? Really? Web 2.0? I'm not even sure I know what Web 2.0 is?? Is that like the second version of the World Wide Web? Am I the only one that doesn't know?! I'll have to google it. Granted I don't know a lot of the words in the dictionary but since this was created in my generation I feel I should know it!
I liked the photos of writer's spaces. Maybe I'll take a pic of mine!
I LOVED the comic strip. Hilarious! That sums up my feelings toward work in general. lol.
Also, I appreciated Janet Reid's post but the part about hoping they have more manuscripts in the drawer really scared me since I don't. This is my first adult length novel so I've got nothing else except for a ton of picture book manuscripts which probably won't make a hill of beans for someone that doesn't rep PB's. I'm almost afraid it could be viewed as a handicap that I don't have something else. Yikes.
I always enjoy the Friday links... you do a good job, Nathan!
Haste yee back ;-)
Oriane said, on 6/14/2009 6:16:00 PM
Great blog! Thanks for sharing all this valuable info.
For those of you in New York, I just noticed that the original Pelham movie is on TV at 8 pm, (45 minutes from now) channel 11 (CW). I've seen it; it's very entertaining, although on the violent side. Walter Matthau is the best.
Ink said, on 6/14/2009 6:47:00 PM
Purple,
I think Janet Reid was hoping writers have other books in the drawer not because she wants to represent those books, but because she hopes they've spent all their noobie mistakes on those early manuscripts developing their craft, and thus the current book is professional (noob mistake free) and ready to go. Not that noobs can't write something brilliant right off the bat, but more often than not it takes a lot of written words to finetune the wordsmithing.
Who was it that said you had to write a million words of crap before you could write the good stuff? Someone help me out here...
I know it has to do with newbie (or noobie?) mistakes and that is what I have a lot of fear of. I LOVE my manuscript (I mean who doesn't love their story) and I'd hate to think it wasn't good enough to be "the one" (or "the ones" since I plan for a series). I'm a Type-A dreamer. ;)
I know there will be a ton-o-mistakes but I really wish and hope and dream that I can make it par for publishable by the time it's done. I'd really hate to think this is just my practice piece, you know?
Anyhoo, I'm not sure who said the million words of crap line but it sounds Mark Twainish.
Hey, Purple Clover! Don't worry - you're not alone. I'm currently revising my first novel, too - and I have every intention of querying that one first (even though I'm working on a second book for your JuJu write-a-thon).
I understand the reasoning behind Janet's comments, of course. Newbies (as Ink called us) need practice, no doubt. But I'm passionate about THIS story - and I think it deserves an audience (even a, gulp, small one).
--Laura
P.S. Phew! I'm glad I didn't offend you, Nathan. After I posted my apology (which was not meant in a kiss-arse sorta way and was truly heartfelt), I was actually worried about it. Sigh - I need a thicker skin if I'm gonna make it in this business. ;-)
I feel ya! I have an idea tucked away for a YA thriller but of course I want to finish my existing, write the two after and THEN focus on the YA. I need to sit on the idea for a while though...let it simmer until it's ready! It's in the conception stage and needs to go thru the full 9 months before it can be born on paper. ;)
Yes. Yes, I am a dork. I had sushi tonight. Just sayin...
Pelham 123 is on here at 8 too, the original. I'm going to compare.
I thought Janet Reid had an interesting point. I have mixed feelings about it. I think there are some first novels that are incredible. But I think many authors need practice in their craft and the first novel may be something to re-visit once they have more practice. That's not true for everyone, of course.
I think it's interesting that other artists practice more than writers tend to.
For example, a violinist will spend hours every day on one passage from a piece. Over and over.
But writers often expect themselves to hit it out of the ballpark through total natural ability and no practice. This may be why writers get blocked so easily. When they don't just flow from pen to page without practice, they get discouraged and think that means they have no talent or nothing to say.
So, I agree with Janet, in that it's good to look toward a body of work, rather than just one.
I think Janet's advice is good - as generalization's go. That is, as long as we take it for what it is, a generalization. In any specific case you have to account for that case on its specific merits, and on its specific merits alone. So, look closely at your book, and then look at the competition on the shelves. Is it ready?
I also think, though, that submitting an early book that's not ready is not all that harmful - except to the free time of agents, of course. If you have the talent, but it's too raw yet... well, you'll get some rejections. Painful, maybe, but certainly not ruinous. And you might get some feedback that helps push you to that next level. So, submit away.
I do think there might be quite a few writers without the talent... but it's always hard to evaluate that. How do you know? Hard work, years of dedication... talent can grow in those optimal greenhouse conditions. No one can perfectly account for the limits of potential. So, write, try... see where it gets you.
But there's nothing wrong, either, with simply writing for the writing. There might be many writers better served by removing the goal of publication. And doing so might allow those writer's to find the proper place for their writing gift within their life.
It's something to think about. Maybe we should all take time to evaluate our goals. Are they the right goals? And, if so, what should we do to meet those goals?
Those are completely different movies. It was a much more innocent time then.
The original is too dated; the re-make adds a whole relationship between the sociopath and the every day man that made it a deeper movie.
Just my opinion.
Jen P said, on 6/15/2009 7:33:00 AM
1)..."unless you have been living under a rock (or somewhere other than the US of A)"
2)..."You just say "this is my first novel." We assume there are more in the drawer."
I'd be curious to know: a) what % of the community regulars (since I'm sure anyone who ever stops by becomes a regular, even if a lurking one) are living in the USA and what % elsewhere.
b) what % are already published, what % are actively seeking publication of a completed first work and what % have really their first book in a drawer but are seeking pub of a second or later work?
Mornin', Jen! Or should I say afternoon where you are? (wink)
Ooh, a poll! I love a poll!
I'm an American gal - course, where I am exactly depends on the season - Michigan in summer, New Orleans in spring/fall, Los Angeles in winter. Crazy, I know.
And, wise or not, I'm seeking publication for my first novel (while working on my second).
This week in publishing: Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose!
First up, regulars around these parts may know Hannah Moskowitz as a sometimes commenter and very talented author of the soon-to-be-published BREAK, which you may know from its appearance as one of the queries in Be An Agent For a Day. You may (and I think you will) be pleased to know that Hannah just received a starred Booklist review! They gush: "For those with a taste for the macabre and an aversion to the sentimental, it’s hard not to be taken in by the book’s strong central relationships….[Break] is like a one-man Fight Club, and it could find nearly as many ardent followers." Not only that, I'm told Hannah was recently voted prom queen at her high school (seriously). Hannah, you are basically the coolest person ever.
BEA was last weekend! If you need to experience it vicariously you can't do better than Publishers Lunch TV, which has a veritable cornucopia* of videos and interviews. Very cool. (*My college roommate made it a goal to include the words "veritable cornucopia" in every single paper he wrote. He succeeded. Seriously, it was like climbing Everest.)
If you want a glimpse into the author/editor relationship you really couldn't do better than The Elegant Variation's feature of Susan Bell's essay on revising THE GREAT GATSBY. Part I is here. Seriously awesome.
Mark Twain wasn't such a fan of his contemporary James Fenimore Cooper, author of LAST OF THE MOHICANS, and he savaged him with a list of writing tips that Cooper violated. My favorite are: "8. Use the right word, not its second cousin." and "3. The personages in a tale shall be alive, except in the case of corpses, and that always the reader shall be able to tell the corpses from the others." Haha.
In agent advice news, Rachelle Gardner has a great post on how to fire your agent. If you're considering it, it's a must-read. I'll just say: communication, communication, communication. Talk to your agent. Talk to them. Don't let things fester.
Veteran editor Brenda Bowen is the latest veteran editor to become an agent. I wish her luck, but not TOO much luck because I need some clients too you know.
In an apparent GalleyCat Exclusive, they report an upcoming mini-e-reader device. Congrats to GalleyCat on the scoop, but just a word of unsolicited for the creators of the device: you may want to tell more people than just GalleyCat that it will be on sale soon. I'm just sayin'.
Via Maud Newton comes the news that Google is considering selling eBooks. Is your head spinning yet about how quickly the book landscape is changing or did it just go ahead and explode already?
As some have noted in the comments section, beloved author David Eddings passed away this week. Very sad.
The awesome Cynthia Leitich Smith interviewed my awesome colleague Tracy Marhini this week. Awesomeness all around. Or, as the kids say, "Awes." (They probably stopped saying that years ago).
Publishing Dictionary (noun) 1. An awesome post by Jessica Faust demystifying the many confusing terms in the publishing business. 2. Required reading.
And finally, reader Richard King pointed me to a Washington Post blog post about the reputation the male sort have with reading fiction. As in: men have a reputation for not reading fiction. Come on, gents, can this be true?
Have a great weekend!
47 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 6/17/2009
Oh, and congratulations Hannah. That is truly wonderful. Let's see, prom queen, on the starred booklist while you're in High School - wow. Amazing. Congratulations from the heart!
And, of course, before I flit away for the rest of the day, I must toss my own congrats into the ring... You go get 'em, Hannah! Good luck at Brown... and beyond!
Oh, as far as men reading, a lot of the husbands of the women in my book club read all of the books we do (they just wouldn't be caught dead getting together to 'discuss.')
I also think there's something about the way men's and women's brains work - with men being typically more right-brained (spatial and action-oriented) and women more left-brained (verbal) - I took a lot of neuropsych classes in grad school. Obviously there are a lot of "left-brain" men out there (and on this blog) that are writers, but I'm convinced this is why my husband is so much better with directions than I am. His "right-brain" allows him to be very creative in a different way (he's a singer/songwriter), but he isn't a huge reader. When I'm not writing, I'm reading, but when he's not writing music, he's listening to it. There are also those rare individuals that are gifted in both areas, and that amazes me.
It's amazing how contemporary Mark Twain sounds. Especially when compared to JF Cooper, whose "Last of the Mohicans" I do believe is the most boring book I've ever read. Or was that "The Deerslayer"? I can't even remember now. Whichever, it was in close competition with Arthur Conan Doyle's "The White Company." But I digress...
And as a teen (18 years old), I can confirm that (at least in the Southeastern US) "awes" is no longer in fashion. In fact, I've never used the term! Sorry to burst your bubble. =P
I'm not sure "sick" is the vernacular anymore, either... I've heard "That's Church" recently... and some of my younger friends refer to more aesthetically pleasing lasses as "fit birds" - which seems quite antiquated/European - I'm definitely farther outside of the loop than ever (what, you mean "that's rad" is no longer the going thing, eh?).
Janet Reid has a new blog location, which I finally located. http://jetreidliterary2.blogspot.com/ (if someone wants to make it a live link, please do)
I had been searching for it via the old link - seems to be a Blogger problem (per her site).
Someone else on this blog mentioned that the link was down, so I went looking.
Hope it helps. When I searched Google I kept getting her main old link.
If this has already been posted, then sorry about that.
When I was in high school we had to do these oral book reports in teams of three. One did the author, one did the book,and one did "critique." Naturally, critique was the dreaded role. My book was Last of the Mohicans, and I of course, got the "criticism" job. i was so fortunate to run across Mark Twain's rant on JF Cooper. I borrowed liberally for my report and I can safely say that mine was the funniest 11th grade book report ever. They asked me to join the debate club!
Coach sent us all scurrying to strive for perfection! Seems we're, mostly, still there. The writing tips - Twain on Fenimore Cooper - were remarkably pertinent. Read the links - detailed detail- so my 5 page reports on each member of my class remain unwritten - but, sleeping is cheating anyway.
Nathan I think you must have depressed the writing population. It isn't a 'bank holiday' unless you count National Day of the Slayer - don't think they were meaning Buffy! Sleep, now, I think!
I wonder at the statistic of men reading less fiction than women. Perhaps (and this is me talking as a teacher's kid) it has something to do with the books we're taught with in English classes?
The classics are great (I adore Mark Twain and Shakespeare), but many of them aren't connected effectively enough to the lives of the students. You can make a reader out of someone easily if you teach them contemporary literature that has a resonant effect with the world around them. And then there's guys like me, who read The Hobbit in junior high and immediately dog-eared my father's copies of Lord of the Rings. Never said I was normal though ;).
Oh! And I'll offer my congratulations to Prom Queen Hannah too.
Does anyone else have the feeling that Nathan only pretended to come back from vacation, and that he's really not here? Hmmm... Maybe the Sacramento Kings are having an open tryout? The second coming of Mitch Richmond...
Ah, vacation... I could really use a holographic version of myself to run the store for a few days. Can any of you Sci-fi folk out there hook me up with one of those?
Nathan - I feel for you. I've forgotten what weekends and holidays used to look like.
Bryan - Oh, you should definitely visit California one day. I lived in L.A. for 5 years (I'll never do that again), but the Golden State is definitely worth a look. San Fran's especially awesome! And the redwoods, OMG, they're amazing... wonder how often Nathan gets to see them!
I thought I was finally going to get to Big Sur this year - but the Minnow's art is dragging me to Fiorenze and my partner is insisting on Cyprus after - apparently we're moving there (heard that kind of thingbefore)! Then it's the Reading Festival!!
Hellz yeah for Hannah. Dangit, I'm 16 and still have the chance to be prom queen/valedictorian/an author/on Nathan's blog! I CAN DO IT! *stares at hands for a moment, then goes to cry in corner*
Had a good laugh at the Twain link. Took the bike out and put over two hundred miles on the odo. Now I'm ready for just about anything including space monkeys and puppies. And if anyone checks out my blogger profile under favorite books they'll find "the fiction ones in English". Enjoy the rest of the weekend. I will.
Hmm, I wish that the Washington Post blog had given more stats and context beyond just saying 20 percent of fiction readers are men. In any case, my own experience with fiction-reading grandfathers, dad, brother, brothers-in-law, nephews, husband, male friends, and colleagues makes me want to know more about the whole situation outside my (apparently narrow) realm.
Men tend to be stimulated from the outside in, I think. We're sight creatures, and with all the techno-gadgetry available to us as a breed, reading habits tend to lean toward the practical. Add to that war, war and more war, and stimulation is at a maximum. I mean, even porn had plots, once upon a time.
I find this sad, to be honest. It's not like men can't be stimulated by their imaginations. Most screenplay writers are men, but that's a highly visual medium they're writing for. And perhaps deep character exploration seems to be less interesting now that we're all electronically connected and all of our secrets are revealed in wise-crack laden, cocktail party chit-chat. With the death of language, so, too, goes the death of fictionalized introspection.
Thanks, Nathan. While not strictly scientific, it's important information for a man who writes fiction that he would like to read. Guess I may have to look at the numbers a little more closely when I'm brewing my next yarn.
Scott, women may have trouble breaking into screenwriting.
Also, I don't think it's an issue of gender, but rather one of personality type. Certain personalities (extraverted, sensory oriented) will be drawn less to reading fiction than other types (introverted, intuition oriented.)
(This is the Jungian personality system, I didn't create it.)
On the other hand, Romance novels are read by the handful, and that could skew the numbers toward women readership.
I must say I just devastated and surprised to read of the death of David Eddings. I loved his series, and read them voraciously in highschool. Truly sad.
First of all, I hope everyone remembers that This Week in Publishing is but a pale imitation of author Cynthia Leitich Smith's comprehensive weekly Cynsational News and Giveaways, which rounds up all of the best news and promos all in one place. It's a weekly must-read.
Andrew Sullivan recently summarized two different anguished posts about the effect piracy is going to have one the future books. In order to enjoy my weekend I will stop thinking about piracy now. Okay now. Now.
Over at Bookpage comes word about Stephen King's new book UNDER THE DOME, a 1,136 page epic novel about a town that is suddenly surrounded by an invisible force field and things start to go crazy. Anyone who has spent a day in 100+ degree weather in New York City probably knows what this feels like.
The Guardian recently featured the opposite of the "end of publishing as we know it" article: the less common but still enjoyable "things have always been this crappy" take on the book business. And actually, they have the audacity to suggest that some things might be less crappy now than before.
Janet Reid ponders what I've been pondering, which is that we agent bloggers may have terrified the wrong group of writers. It's the age-old blogging agent conundrum: we want to reach the truly clueless, but the truly clueless don't read agent blogs. If an agent screams in a forest about rhetorical questions, does he make a sound?
Kristin Nelson has some really terrific advice if you're going to name-drop someone in a query: remind us who that person is. Our brains are full.
In agent pushback news, Jennifer Jackson took up one of my personal sticking points, and reminds authors to remember the difference between what is wanted and what is owed.
Via reader Tomas Mournian comes a really great post by author Joshua Mohr about his path to publication with big agents and a small press. He gets at some of the essential truths about the business: luck is huge, and rather than knowing everything, agents and editors are just making the best guesses they can.
Neil Vogler pointed me to an article in the Bookseller that provides the very interesting news that in 2008 the number of self-published books exceeded the number of traditionally published books for the first time. Wow.
I like long books...Maia was over 1000 pages and one of my all time faves. It even got pretty creepy at the end. But King is the master of scary. I'm not a thrill seeker.
No sky diving, no bungee jumping, no free climbing any mountains, and no King. Just haven't got the chops.
Laurel - me too. I'm too imaginative, and King's got a direct line into unconscious imagery.
Jil said, on 5/22/2009 11:55:00 PM
If the agent saw that a writer had many more good books in her, wouldn't it pay to get the first one out there anyway he could in hopes of getting a following and then be picked up by a big publishing house?
By the way, on Query Tracker it's possible to type in an author's name and get their agent.
Also, does Stephen King write his own books? I've heard, {Is it true?} that some prolific authors just give their ideas to a stable of writers to get on with. What do agents think about that?
Out of turn here, not being a King expert, but I find it far-fetched to think that a stable of writers could duplicate his style. Mira's right about him. He has a preternatural ability to tap into primordial fear that affects both an individual and a community. What if everybody's crazy/ what if I'm crazy? Even worse, what if it's all really TRUE?
He's a really gifted writer, I think. If he wasn't, I could probably read more of his stuff. I don't think just being good at mimicry would be enough to pull it off...
What do you think? You've probably read more King than I have. Did any of it not quite ring true for you?
mkcbunny said, on 5/23/2009 1:22:00 AM
A friend of mine has had the Tuscan Whole Milk on her son's Amazon wish list for years. It was not always $77+ a gallon. If I recall correctly, a couple of years ago, it was under $10, maybe even only $5.
The problem wasn't the cost of the milk. The shipping was outrageous.
King hiring a stable of writers is the most bogus thing I have ever heard. Just read On Writing he comments that he spend 4-6 hours a day reading or writing. And then look at his retirement after his accident in 1999. The reason he retired was because he could no longer sit for long periods of time to write.
If he had a stable of writers he would never have had to retire as they could have just churned his stories out for him.
And you can see his stylistic changes and influences in all his writing. Read anything before he gave up junk in 1987 and anything after he gave it up and you can see the differences. In fact the more whacked out he got on drugs the stranger his stories got like the Tommyknockers.
His writing ties in with what is happening in his life and no stable of writers could mimic that.
I am not sure if it is true about other authors but it is most definitely false about King.
Now that Stephanie Meyer is hugely successful she should hire a stable of writers to improve her work.
You're right I've seen a few more of his movies. Thanks for listing them out. I did see Shawshank Redemption and Green Mile. Parts of Misery and Firestarter (on TV in the eighties). I've seen Langoliers more than once. Oh and I watched the IT and Stand By Me.
I think he has a great imagination. But I can't watch the scarier stuff (mind control or whatev). Plus, in my defense, I'm fairly young (I like to think) sooooo some of his stuff I've just "missed" out on because I was too young to be exposed.
I think you are right about King - thank goodness - but is it true that others do have books written from plots they provide? Maybe, at least an outline?
No offense taken. It's just a matter of taste really. Like Laurel, he's just too scary for me. I'm very sensitive to horror and supernatural stuff. Not so much when I was a teen but even then King was too out there for me.
If I've seen a King flick it was only because it came on TV and I was curious. I never seeked him out. But again, that is due more to taste than anything. I picture his house to have dishes flying around at night and creepy squeaking stair cases and such. :D
Not my cup of tea. On the other hand, there are some of his flicks that I did like and thought were tasteful. So it's kind of like a lottery.
My favorite work by king is his novellas and his collection of stories in books like Four Past Midnight and Nightmares and Dreamscapes. Its not surprising either that his best movie adaptations were almost all based on his novellas and not his full length novels. The best of course being the Shawshank Redemption. My second favorite was Kubrick's the Shining and King said he never liked Kubrick's version.
I just bought King's first seven novels off ebay and plan on reading them in a row.
Byran - that was sick - of course, SVG once again showed why he needs to work on his coaching. Should have been hedging the 3 more and why would you put Hedo - a taller, but much slower defender than Pietrus? If you're not guarding the inbounds play with a big, should have had a double hedging on LeBron... nonetheless, helluva shot....
I still think Orlando wins the series, but Denver's taking it home (my Lakers just aren't tough enough to handle Billups, Melo and the energy Denver's bringing every night)
I gotta support my Cavs for the title... but I never liked the match-up with Orlando. The Cavs interior defense and rebounding is rather nullified by the fact Lewis and Turkoglu always pull the bigs away from the basket... and the bigs can't guard them out there. I mean, LeBron can guard one of them... but who on Cleveland can guard the other? Of course, the Cavs biggest thing is that they're simply missing shots. Easy shots. Delonte, Mo, Z... miss, miss, miss. If they start hitting, though...
And Denver intrigues me. Kind of snuck up on everybody. And the Lakers aren't playing great right now. Not terrible, but not their best, certainly. Right now, Denver looks better... but Jackson usually finds a way to push a few buttons and ramp up the intensity. Like how he said "Oh, maybe I'll have to sit Fisher..." and suddenly Fisher is playing well again. I'm curious to see what happens in that series.
I know what the League is hoping for... LeBron v. Kobe.
Jil, probably not b/c most wireless communications occur through tower/antenna transmission - even if it were directly based through a satellite, the space station would have to be in a lower earth orbit relative to the satellite.
To work, NASA would probably have to reroute Amazon's transmission metric to sync with its own.
Nike has muppet commercials? How have I missed this? The citizenry of Canada is being robbed of its rightful commercial propaganda and manipulation. I am going to write a strongly worded letter to Nike concerning their failure to properly export consumerism.
Re: "sitting in a little house in the woods - not far from Gaylord"
You mean, near "Call of the Wild" museum? I love that museum. How can it be possible to go "Up North" and not go to the "Call of the Wild" museum? I surely do not know.
Trout farm Sleeping Bear Sand Dunes (I wrote a poem about them) Cherry Festival (Cherry syrup on pancakes) Mackinac Bridge (too scary - but I might write a poem about it to go with the one I wrote about the Ambassador Bridge) (#1 scary bridge in Michigan)
"Up North." Down here - well, let me put it this way - "for sale or lease" signs are sprouting in office parks like morel mushrooms. Depressing as hell. I understand Macomb County is about to get slammed as well.
I'm way behind everyone else on this stream... I think the last comment was yesterday afternoon... but I've always been a late bloomer... so, here goes.
Purple Clover -
It's definitely a matter of taste. King's not for everyone, I know. I haven't read all of his books, I must admit, but I've read a lot of them - and I love his sense of atmosphere - makes me feel the ghosts and ghoulies are right behind me! I love that feeling!
The craziest experience I had with King was when I was a camp counselor in West Virginia. The kids and counselors were playing a massive game of hide-and-seek, and for some wackadoo reason, I decided to wait it out in a walk-in fridge, reading "The Shining" while I waited (guess which scene - yup, when Jack is locked in the pantry). Talk about scary - I banged so hard on the fridge door that a kid found me anyway!
Steph -
Well, the National Cherry Festival is in Traverse City in July - and blueberry-picking season is also in July. I think the National Blueberry Festival is actually in South Haven in early August (far from both of us).
Wanda -
Yep. I'm not far from Call of the Wild - I've been there a couple times with my nieces. So charmingly low-tech. I'd love to read your Michigan poems - can I see them somewhere?
In the meantime, I'm sorry that things are so depressing down south. My brother-in-law lives in Rochester, and he's about to lose his GM job (he's got three girls, too). Well, you and Steph are both invited to the north - so pretty now that spring is finally here - you can forget your troubles for a while.
I had a couple of thoughts. The first is that I agree with the Guardian article. I believe the golden age of publishing is coming up. Ease of access means more - more poor quality, maybe, but more good quality definitely.
The other thought I had was about about Janet Reid's aricle: we're terrifying the wrong group of people.
I agree - except she doesn't quite get to the real point. It's there underneath....
I think the main point is why is anyone being terrified?
I have a good writer friend who spent months and months researching agents, writing queries, etc. Just think - if she had spent that time instead on writing.
I wish agents would completely simplify the process. Create a fill-in form.
What is your genre: What is the main conflict of the book: Who are you: etc.
And attach 3-5 pages.
Simple. Easy to read, easy to fill out.
Ease of access. No one is terrified.
Wouldn't that be nice? And think how much easier it would make an agent's life. No more queries to sift through. Just easy to read forms.
No joke, totally serious. Just because something has always been done that way, doesn't mean it's the best way.
I emailed you my Ambassador Bridge poem since I didn't want to post it here.
Suddenly, I have a craving for blueberries and cherries! Hmm...
General Motors...perhaps your brother-in-law will get a job in the new "green economy" that's been bandied about...when my mom broke her hip, at one point she said, "Out of the darkness comes radical change. Creation, then re-creation, the re-creation again." So I'm trying to stick with that about Detroit, and Michigan as a whole...that's the last line in the last poem in my book about Detroit: "Out of the darkness come radical changes" (thanks for the inspiration mom!) It's like Michigan has got a broken hip, and the broken hip is called "Detroit."
So, I was imagining an agent's response to my idea posted yesterday. In keeping with the fact that I never need anyone else to have a conversation, I thought out the whole thing.
Here's the conversation:
'Mira,' said the agent. 'That was brilliant.'
'I know,' I'd reply with false modesty.
'But,' the agent would continue, 'Queries are the only way to know if the author is a professional and someone easy to work with.'
'Balderdash!' I'd reply. Then I'd say it again, because it's so much fun to say. 'Balderdash!. Queries are a very poor way to get that information. Know a better way? Talk to the person on the phone for 5 minutes. That will do it.'
'True,' the agent would nod.
'Not only that,' I'd continue,'but really, why should you get clients who are easy to work? The rest of the world gets clients who are living nightmares. Why should you get be exempt?'
'Good point,' the agent would admit.
'And finally, I noticed that you don't like it when writers are mad at you. Well, insisting that writers not only be extremely talented but also willing do extra work and be sooo nice is a tad annoying.'
'You're right on every point.' the agent would agree. 'Mira, you're a genius!'
'I know!'
'I'll get right on it. No more queries for me. Fill-in forms it is!'
'Yea!'
Then, we'd walk off hand and hand into the sunset to go get some beer.
Oh, Mira, if only it were that simple. Ah, a fantasy world where hateful queries didn't exist...
I liken the whole experience to that of a smart person who doesn't test well. Overall, I'm proud of my novel - I think it's something that readers (especially women) could relate to and perhaps be inspired by - but, alas, my query-crafting abilities are less than desirable.
As proven by my first rejection. Sniff, sniff.
Still, like standardized tests, queries seem to be the best way for unpublished authors (at least in the fiction world) to reach agents (or, realistically, their assistants) who might otherwise not take their phone calls.
But I wish you much luck with your sunset-strolling, beer-snarfing dream!
Anonymous said, on 5/25/2009 10:39:00 AM
I wish everyone a nice Memorial Day. God bless all the veterans, their families and friends, and especially our fallen heroes who lie where American Flags mark their graves.
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . . Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, -- My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. _________________________
From Wikipedia:
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori is a line from the Roman lyrical poet Horace's Odes (iii 2.13). The line can be rendered in English as: "It is sweet and fitting to die for one's country.", "It is noble and glorious to die for your fatherland." or "It is beautiful and honorable to die for your fatherland."
Noticed there was some discussion here about angry vs. cooperative authors. Found out via Neil Gaiman on Twitter about an interesting TV documentary scheduled for tonight about the writer Harlan Ellison. The article says, "But, mostly, he's just angry as hell."
Have you been to Gettysburg where the circular painting is described as men going to their glory. The glory of dying horribly- oh, the magnificence of it!
Blessings and thanks to all the poor souls and their families who suffer so.
I think the difference between a query letter and an online form is much like the difference between playing poker in a casino rather than online. You can see their tells in a query letter but the online form may mask them. ;)
Either way it's a gamble.
Wow. Sometimes I surprise myself. ;)
Anonymous said, on 5/25/2009 6:22:00 PM
Um. There are some agents who have fill-in forms. I can remember at least three from when I researched them a year ago. There may have been a lot more who did then and there may be even more now.
Laura - congrats on your first rejection! You've arrived! You're now a 'real' writer - yea!
P.C. - !!!! I play poker! Do you play?
But you have a point. It's not that the agent doesn't get any information from a query. I just think it's a very time-consuming and labor intensive way to get the information. For both the writer and the agent.
The agent can get the information more quickly and easily by finding writing that he likes, and contacting the author. If he then finds out the author hasn't bathed in 3 years, that's a 'tell.' It 'tells' him to conduct all his business by phone.
Ha ha.
Really. Does it matter if the writer is professional? Really? If they'll net you a million bucks with their writing, can't you put up with nose plugs?
Re: "Brooke, McCrea, Sassoon and Owen -but Owen's 'Disabled' is my absolute favourite."
Here's a great resource on WWI poets:
http://www.english.emory.edu /LostPoets/
It says:
"Harry Rusche is the author of Lost Poets of the Great War, a hypertext document on the poetry of World War I; his address is the English Department, Emory University, Atlanta, GA 30322; he can be reached by e-mail at [email protected]." ________________
I find it interesting that (at least in the writing programs I've been in) you just don't READ these poets at all - there's a whole tradition including them, Edna St. Vincent Millay, even Robinson Jeffers, whom Millay said was the only free verse poet that she admired. You know, as if narrative poetry isn't "modern" enough a response to war, or "high" technology, or social changes...
Marilynn Byerly beat me to it. POD is not self-publishing. The OOS designation is being replaced with In Stock but that in stock is POD. Lightning Source is growing by leaps and bounds and they won't be the only POD solution in the future. OOS will be a thing of the past until books go fully digital and stock ceases to exist.
You have a good point. I mean seriously...if celebs can get paid millions of dollars and not have one iota of mad-writy skillz then I think we can let a few great story tellers slip through the professional cracks.
And yes, I play Texas Hold'em for fun with friends. Not online (I try to limit my internet addictions to Blogger & FB). Though I came close to playing out in Vegas when I was visiting my sister. But I found I have mad-winny skillz at the Wheel O'Death. Much safer and winning was fast!
All poetry has to resonate from the writer's hand (through time and over cultural and around gender barriers) until it gets to translate from words to images in your head.
I first heard the words of these war poets. Of the pack, only I kept trying to get my Dad to talk about his experiences of war - he refused all medals he was entitled to. By using his brother's birth certificate he went to war at 15. For years he didn't talk but he would read the poems to me - several rang louder than bells when he read them. But I was most fascinated by the one he wouldn't read. He wasn't disabled by injury - theoretically he came back whole.
Not as many links this week! We can savor the few we have. Ahhh....
First off, there's an ongoing charity auction benefiting author Bridget Zinn, who at just 31 was diagnosed with stage four cancer. Please check that out and bid if you can.
And in other friend-of-the-blog news, have you ever wanted to see your name in the acknowledgments section of a book? Check out Anne & May's new contest, and you too could see your name in print.
Meanwhile, the French unsurrendered their fight against Internet piracy and passed a law that cuts off Internet access to people who repeatedly pirate copyrighted material, and creates a government agnecy to enforce the rule. Tres interessant.
Sarah Palin got a book deal. No word on the advance, but I'm guessing it could buy a whole lot of moose meat.
My awesome client Jennifer Hubbard recently posited a really fascinating question about children's book writing. Click over to see what it is.
And finally, in case you need proof that I have strange interests, behold this engrossing video that models all of the world's plane flights in twenty four hours.
Have a great weekend! See some of you in Washington!
65 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 5/25/2009
Anon, I'm gonna talk about LOST here, but no spoilers... promise.
PC - I'm digging lost - even though it jumped the shark a few years back (perhaps they can time travel and unjump it :) - a part of my atheist side wishes I remembered more of my biblical upbringing so I could get the parallels/references more readily (and w/o having to completely rely on chat boards :) - definitely liked the Flannery O'Connor placement in the finale - great author;
Do none of you have people in your lives - whom you respect - who actually like Sarah Palin? Don't get me wrong, I didn't vote for her (or Obama/Biden) I just find it fascinating that everyone in here bashes her and that certain audience. That audience you're referring to happens to contain some of the best people I've had the pleasure of meeting.
Um. Never mind. I see that original estimates of Palin's book value were more like 7 MILLION to 11 million. Don't know where I got that other figure.
Here's Palin regarding her writing: "My journaling really ramped up when I found out that I was pregnant with Trig and then Track was going off to war and I found out Bristol was pregnant," Palin said. "When we had those episodes in our lives come to the surface, it was very therapeutic for me."
Some argue that she is legally prohibited from making money on a book while holding the office of Governor of Alaska.
It's now officially a toss-up between whether I like Nathan's blog or your comments more. Before it was pretty much a dead heat ... now not so much.
I read about the Palin advance, turned to co-worker, and said "See? This is what's wrong with publishing." Not because she shouldn't get a book deal, but because like someone else said, this means the publisher won't spend the money on an unproven author who may be the next Steinbeck (a guy can dream, can't he?).
-Matt
P.S. And yes "Of Moose and Men" meant I had to go for Steinbeck. So :P
Bryan, I want whatever Kool-aid you're drinking :)
Also, for all you "The Road" junkies, there's a new trailer out for the upcoming movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiMWf4WeGWc
The folks over at RottenTomatoes seem to be up in arms - something about the trailer not reflecting the book and attracting the wrong crowd (I'm guessing teenagers)...
I have a different take on the Palin deal. She got a big fat advance because somebody thinks she'll make them some money. They don't pay advances or royalties from a static pile of money somewhere.
Love her or hate her, if the book makes a big pile of money that is MORE money the publisher has to spend on new authors. Not less. And since they aren't in the biz to lost money I suspect they are planning on making plenty.
I'm glad you understand. Stalkers have definitely gotten a bad wrap. So few people look past the severe mental health issues to the potential beneath - you know, free labor. People who will do your chores for you without complaining.
Heck, they'll BEG you to do your chores. Wish I had a stalker. My sock drawer needs organizing.
Matthew,
you warmed the cockles of this unpublished author who hasn't even written anything's heart. But you're looking at this the wrong way. Nathan and I are a team. As in he provides this open forum for authors, with interesting discussion topics and links and interviews (!), and fun contests, and encouragement and advice.
Then I give him a hard time and he is veeerrryy patient about the whole thing, and doesn't delete my posts TOO often.
Did you stick around for the attack polar bears and black passover type thingie?? I must admit it had a LOOONNGGG stint during the writers strike that it felt like they were making it up as they go (and they were and still are I think) but they've managed to come full circle quite nicely. Except for the finale. All I will say is, "Can they make up their freakin' minds what 'side' they are on already??? How many times are they going to change their minds. This all takes place within a day...seriously!"
Bane - Wow, I'm an avid reader of the bible and I have to admit I had no idea they were doing that many biblical references. I will only say that the black "thing" reminded me of the passover and ben reminded me of the prodigal son's jealous older brother. Hmph. Now I'm going to overanalyze everything. Thanks Anubis! :P
I admit I am still disappointed at the finale. But that is all I'll say. I really thought it was a bunch of fluff. Though I cried when Sawyer cried. But I always cry when men do. Except Jack. He's just a winer baby.
I just went to a reading for Aprilynne Pike and Wings last night. (see my blog if you want pics and such) I was seriously surprised at how few people showed up, considering her placement on the NY Times list. The event was well-advertized, and the bookstore has hosted huge crowds for both Stephenie Meyers and Alexander McCall Smith in the past. Perhaps Pike just isn't famous enough yet. But, seriously, there were 30 people there tops, and most of them appeared to be her relatives and neighbors. Oh well. Wings is quite a fresh take on fairies, and it's a very nice debut book.
PC - Bullseyes or Venn Diagrams? - that concentration around New Zealand worries me - that's where one of those super volcanoes is supposed to exist (and will likely explode in 2012 when the world comes to an end - don't mess with the Mayans)
Nathan, how should one categorize one's story (toward agents) if it kind of fits into two realms (in my case, I could call it fantasy or literary horror)?
I'm not actually defining it in the query, but I like defining the genre in the subject line. Is it better to go w/ a 1 genre descriptor or is it alright to slash it (e.g., fantasy/horror)?
Thanks for any help/insight you can provide (as you can probably tell, I enjoys slashes :).
I loved the LOST finale, but then that was to be expected. They can do no wrong in my eyes. (Except maybe for Faraday, my fave character, but I'm sure he'll be back in one way or another next season anyway). It wasn't as good as Season 3 finale, which is probably my all time favourite episode of any show ever. It's like, I had an inkling of what was going on, but when they did the big reveal I was so beside myself that I cried for like 2 hours afterwards due to the sheer brilliance of it.
Anyhow, Well done to Aprilynne!
I don't have much to say about writing today.... I'm off to watch that air traffic vid again. That was all different kinds of awesomeness!
PS has anyone checked out Wolfram Alpha? Excellent search engine tool, wonderful if you're in the researching stage of anything (I always seem to be in the research stage!).
It's at www.wolframalpha.com
I tried posting a link but it went awry and I'm too in need of a chocolate break to worry about fixing it!
That earthquake link was as interesting as Nathan's flight simulation. Did you see there was already a 6.7 today in the Melanesian islands? 6.7 is getting sort of significant. And a few 4.5s in Sichuan, China. Makes you a little nervous...
My best, Bryan
Anonymous said, on 5/16/2009 8:47:00 AM
Sarah Palin doesn't need to BUY moose meat. She can use the funding to launch her campaign for the presidency in 2012.
The prospects of a Sarah Palin book are amusingly promising - what if she embarrasses herself in print as stupendously as she did on live TV? Seems less likely, but truth is stranger than fiction.
Having my name mentioned in other writers' acknowledgments is the closest I've come to being published. Can we mention these in query letters?
Just kidding.
My heart goes out to Bridget. I had stage 2 cancer at age 30. Didn't see that coming.
Anonymous said, on 5/16/2009 10:19:00 AM
PC,
I'm with you, none of my family likes Jack "the hero". Sawyer is awesome. But I definitely saw the connectiones to the bible. I have thought it was purgatory from the beginning. Faraday will come back, I think.
Jo
Anonymous said, on 5/16/2009 10:23:00 AM
Anon 6:47,
I missed Sarah embarrassing herself. What did she do? I guess I see things differently than most people.
Palin embarassed herself in every non-scripted interview she had to give. That is, whenever she had to answer questions that she didn't know beforehand (and thus have time to memorize scripted answers) she failed to answer them intelligently or competently. Sometimes, laughingly so. It was kind of hard to watch, really. McCain really had to smile through some of her answers. Felt a little bad for her, truth be told, but there was no ignoring that away from canned speeches (and she can deliver a speech) she looked woefully out of her depth.
And I'm Canadian, so not speaking from any particular point of view on American politics. Non-partisan! We're soon going to invade and take over, anyway, so... oops, wasn't supposed to leak that. Ignore. Non-partisan, yeah. Just your friendly neighbourhood Canuck here, eh?
Bryan, when you invade, could you please bring Terence and Philip with you?
And what's up with all the Jack hate? What sort of pressure has Sawyer had to deal with in his life? Oh well, I always liked Luke Skywalker a little more than Han, too (b/c if I were gonna emulate one of them, it'd be the "hero")
But you ladies like your reformed bad boys, eh? (j/j, sort of :)
And the prevailing theory I'm seeing nowadays is some sort of Jacob/Esau parallel.
Nathan, I enjoyed the planes- I was surprised they had so many more flights in Europe...until the sun went down on Paris, and came up in LA, and then the US was glowing. It gave me that same 'wow. there's a lot of people on this planet' feeling I always get when I fly. I love that.
B of A, I don't get the Jack hate either. I always loved Sawyer in the first couple of seasons, but then I thought Jack became a much more interesting character when he started to really fall apart, and Sawyer became less so when he started getting his act together.
The compelling characters are always my favourites, hence Faraday and Ben being at the top of my list.
Man, I seriously need to get another power cord asap! I'm missing great convo's!
Bane - I really LOVE venn diagrams but I'm very anal and like all things feng shui so I'd take a bullseye over a venn. They just seem so...contained. Is that what you were asking?
Whoa - Skywalker? The winiest of the winer babies! lol. I'm a total Han-ie. Plus I'm a total Harrison Ford-ie. He can do no wrong. So maybe some of us girls like the reformed bad-boys? So what? Just eye candy...we know who to settle down with in the long run! hehe. KIDDING! sorta... ;)
And yeah, the earthquakes in NZ worry me. I'm sure we are in for a rude awakening at some point. It's so addictive (and scary!) to watch those things!
Ink - scary indeed! You wonder if some of them are so far down they don't feel them all the time? I mean it just registered some large ones recently in southern Cali (how often do Californians feel earthquakes really?? - Just curious for any that want to answer? Mira? Nathan? Who else?? haha)
Jo - I forgot about the purgatory thing! I'm not Catholic so that is probably why I forgot but thanks for the reminder! How could I forget that??! I was thinking that in the beginning but it slipped my mind...stinkin' writers strike. Oh wait...I'm a writer. I mean, I mean...stinkin people that pay the writers. ;)
Anonymous said, on 5/16/2009 8:49:00 PM
So Sarah Palin's embarrassment comes from the interview with Dianne Walters?
I saw her in person, and thought she did an excellant job with her speeches, and speaking to the press afterwards. Every politician has their awkward moments on tv. The less experience you have at it, the harder it is. Even our new president has screwed up several times.
Hate is a strong word. The Jack dislike comes from his self-importance. I can't stand that in people. Fastest way to earn my dislike is to think your opinion is more important than everyone elses.
Small earthquakes provide us with entertainment. We all compare notes, and talk about where we were when that small earthquake happened, and how crazy we are to live in California. Then we admit that it's nice not to have to worry about blizzards, hurricanes, tornados, volcanos and locust.
It's also fun to tease people who are new to California. They tend to be a bit jittery.
Big earthquakes (and I've been in 3) are awful.
But like all natural disasters, you just go on with your life.
Personally, I'm much more worried about the Canadian invasion. I've always suspected those Canadian were up to something - they're so peaceful. Nothing says "imminent invasion' like a nation of nice people who are all minding their own business.
Ink, when are you invading? It would help if I had some hard data.
Thanks for the links Nathan. I'm so excited about Aprilynne! The book looks fantastic, and what do you know? She's from Utah! Maybe there's something in the water that will help me with my story :0) Have a good weekend!
You know, I've been going through old posts from previous months. I collected some of my old clips to see if I could make them into something bigger sometime.
The fun part was reading posts by people who I now know well. At the time, I didn't know them from Adam. But now it's like - oh, look! There's Ink, there's Wanda, there's Laurel, there's P.C., Jen C, Bane, Jil, SS@S, Alex, Rick D., Marilyn and so many more. It's totally fun to see how I've gotten to know other writers here.
Oh, and then there's that guy Nathan. I see him alot too. He has some good things to say. Worth reading.
It seems to me that the only books selling these days are simple teenage romance novels and novels about simple-minded moose and wolf puppy slayers. Ggggs...gimme a break will yuh.
And we figured Weapons of Mass Destruction are out, and beer distraction in. Every Canadian soldier will have two full cases of Canadian beer for deployment. Considering the higher alcohol content, we figure our troops will be walking through unresisting meadows full of inebriated Americans. We call it Operation Molson Horse.
And, you know, resistance is futile. It's beer. Your Achilles Heel has finally been discovered.
Mira - I see your point. I find I'd rather be in a hurricane (as I've been through at least 3 myself) than in an earthquake, tornado, volcano, etc. Funny how wherever you live has some effect on your feelings towards the natural disasters that plague the area.
Everyone else - as a wife of a Canadian and mother to two CanAms, I'd say they infiltrated a long long time ago. They know our weaknesses. Mine - Molson and Tim Hortons coffee...and hockey players. ;) YUM!
I've been in 2 little earthquakes here in Melbourne in the past few months, my first ever. They were quite exciting, but the second one I freaked out a little bit because I was at work, on the top floor of a high-rise in the city and I kept imagining the building falling down! I'd rather no natural disasters at all, thanks!
Mira,
It must have been fun going back through all of the comments! I love the comment section of this blog.
It was a pleasure to meet you after your Q&A session at the Seattle conference. You deserve a medal for doing so many in a month! Thanks again for making the effort to help writers everywhere realize their dreams.
Lots and lots (and lots) of links today. There is so much "future of publishing news" this week my head is spinning. Let's get to it!
First up, those of you who have e-Readers may have wondered on occasion why there are lots of books missing from the e-libraries. Well, AP reporter Hillel Italie wrote a recent article assessing some of the reasons, which include skepticism about the whole e-book thing and a strong disagreement over royalties. You might see the CEO of a certain agency interviewed in the article. A certain agency that likes the color orange. Okay, it's Curtis Brown.
Speaking of e-Readers, via HarperStudio (love those guys) comes a blog post at the NY Times about the effect e-Readers are going to have on books, including making them easier to buy (and stop reading), a great jockeying for search engine optimization, and the possible return of the cliffhanger as a way to entice buying. I love the idea of cliffhangers making it
Speaking of the New York Times and e-Readers, they have a separate article, crucially, about the Kindle's effect on literary snobbery. In other words, who is going to try and impress everyone on the subway by reading ULYSSES when no one can see what they're reading? It's the end of literature as we know it, people.
And lastly in future of publishing news, my awesome colleague Katie Arathoon passed along two articles, one about the launch of the Espresso in England, a machine that can print and bind a (warm) book in five minutes, and which is probably the future of many paper books as it will allow even the smallest of bookstores to offer the same level of selection as online booksellers.
In agency news, William Morris and Endeavor got married, and I'm told they registered at Bloomingdales. I already got them a rice cooker, so don't even think about it.
Agent Rachelle Gardner (who I had the pleasure of meeting in Colorado Springs) has an awesome post this week compiling some of the horrible Amazon reviews some beloved books received. If you need a pick-me-up (or laugh) after receiving a rejection, check it out.
Almost finally, via PublicAffairs Editor Niki Papadopolous comes word of a cool project by Perseus. They're going to be compiling a book based on user entries and then publishing it in as many formats as possible in 48 hours at BEA. All you have to do is submit your first line to the sequel of a great book.
And finally, finally, via the Huffington Post comes an amazing video of a dancing parrot, which scientists are using to prove that not only do some animals actually have rhythm, they have horrible taste in music, too:
Someone get that parrot a book deal.
Have a great weekend!
67 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 5/18/2009
The cliffhanger concept reminds of the master--Charles Dickens--which reminds of the publishing model he lived on--serials. Kindle might be the perfect format for reviving that model. Imagine getting John Grisham's next courtroom suspense novel sent to you in weekly installments. Say $.99 for each installment, 50% discount off the total if you subscribe to the whole thing up front.
Oh! i love that Jacob werewolf too! And I think I read YA because, I didn't have access to those books when I was younger (I admit, some hadn't even been thought of yet), and I see my 11 year-old self being obsessed with Harry Potter, Twilight, Percy Jackson! and that gives me a warm, happy feeling inside. Thanks for the wonderful links!
I've searched and searched and have yet to find an answer. I've read that if something is copyrighted, like ipod for example, that you cannot use it in your book. But I've seen writers use not only ipod, but brand name cars like BMW and bands like The Beatles. I've looked in the book to try and find some credit given to the copyright holder, but there is none!
I don't get it. Are you, or are you not allowed to use these kind of things in your book? Any help would be greatly appreciated :]
Thanks for the links. The e-book discussion is still very interesting to me. I've gotten most of my information online, but lately more and more of my friends are talking about their Kindles...and liking them.
I am a member of a bookclub, comprised of 11 thirty to forty year old women highly-educated women who only read literary books - except for Twilight. I laughed when they picked it and made endless fun of my thirty-something friends who went to the midnight showing of the movie. Two weeks later, I had read all 4 books and seen the movie (but not at midnight). I totally understand the appeal and it was a fun diversion from our usual books - sort of like having Doritos and diet coke for dinner instead of veggies. However, I really loved Mudbound which was our most recent pick.
Oooh! I'm really excited about the Espresso. Anything that helps small bookstores compete is a beautiful thing!
Regarding dancing parrots, apparently Snowball also dances to "Another one bites the dust" and has helped to prove that birds and elephants got rhythm.
I'm kind of excited for the anti-literary-snobbery potential the Kindle has. Now I can read all my cheesy sci/fi fantasy novels w/ naked blue people and dragons on the cover without shame! Also, romances...
Here's why Kindle (and any me too products) will have the edge over Espresso:
Instant gratification.
You can get your title immediately. At 2 am, in the airport, whatever.
Also, there is an entire generation now who reads as much online as they do bound books. I came from textbook publishing and you absolutely cannot sell a textbook without an ebook version. They get both with the purchase of the text. And many of them use the ebook exclusively. The question I most frequently fielded at student orientation was, "Can I just buy the ebook?" followed up with "Is it cheaper?" They prefer the online book.
I know reading for pleasure is different but reading habits cross over and translate.
I'm glad the Times picked up on the death of literary snobbism problem with the Kindle.
To me, a related but even bigger problem for authors with the Kindle is that as Kindles become more popular, authors will lose one of their oldest and best marketing devices: people walking up to others reading in public and asking "How is that?"
It seems to me that if my iPod can display a clear picture of the album cover of the song I'm listening to and my cell phone can show me all sorts of information through an outer display when it's closed, then a Kindle can have a display on the backside that shows the title, author, and cover art of the book I'm reading. I can't imagine why the entire publishing industry (including Amazon, who makes the Kindle) wouldn't want this alteration on the next version.
Wow, look at all these links! And so much good stuff. Lots to read this weekend.
In terms of the "marriage," I'm curious about what the article said - that it was beneficial for the individual artist. The rest of the article didn't spell that out. In fact, it talked about anti-trust, lay-offs, reduced advances.....there must be something I'm not seeing....?
Oh boy, lots of links for me to go check out today!
I love that cockatoo. He's just too cute when he lifts his feet in the air, even if his musical taste is questionable. (My guess is he likes the beats.)
Word verification: "noise". Freakishly appropriate for that video! I did a double-take when I went to type it in.
I agree with you RW. But, does the brief episodic style of writing lead to a cliffhanger or a myriad of colourful scenes? In Dickens' case it was very much the later. One thing's for sure, when you're wrting online, you can't afford a single slack page or you will lose your readers: they have millions of other pages they can turn to for free. You have to hold them gripped tightly in your fist and never realax that grip for one moment.
When people have bought your book, you've got them. You can ease up at times; take it easy, just as long as the overall effect is good. They have bought in.
What the hell is not to love about the Backstreet Boys? Excellent, skinny facial hair? Pensive brows over vacant eyes? The impeccable harmonizing where 5 voices actually only sound like two? A complete disregard for actually writing an album where one song is different from the next? The fact that their hairlines are quickly receding from over dying and over producting?
You got that effing song stuck in my head Nathan. Thanks.
Also, I think all us grown women still read YA because we don't feel any older than 19. I mean, I expected to feel older when I was fast approaching a quarter of a century. I don't.
I don't have an actual "e-reader" device (ala Kindle, etc), but I do read my romance novels almost exclusively on my PDA. I even have two monthly ebook subscriptions for romances. One of the greatest things about reading romance on my PDA is that I can keep the cover to myself - no one has to know I'm reading a book with nearly naked bodies adorning the cover (or the pages between). A guilty pleasure I can take anywhere...and not have to worry about peers or potential bosses "reading into" my choice of reading material that day. Very cool.
Okay, I just read the one about Twilight and moms.
They just figured this out? Seriously?
Everybody my age watched "Buffy The Vampire Slayer." Grew up on it. Did they think we all had kids and just stopped being consumers of anything but formula and Pampers?
Anonymous said, on 5/1/2009 3:24:00 PM
Did that much really happen this week? It went by so fast it seemed like nothing could happen at that speed. I should stop reading, its mucking up my sense of time. As far as the Kindle snobbery goes...I'm the kind of person who does drag out whoppers out in public to show how freaking smart I am (to be fair, I read them in private when no one is looking), but Kindle will give snobs like me the chance to read trash too. I can't bring myself to check out or buy trash or YA...I read Twilight on the super sly and now pretend like I never read it.
The Espresso machine is a great idea, but will it really work in book stores? Just speaking for this customer, being able to touch, handle, and skim through a book is the only thing that makes a bookstore preferable to amazon.com. That and the fact that you walk out with your purchase instead of waiting weeks for it to slowly wend through Uncle Sam's paper labyrinth. From a business perspective I also wonder about the store's capital investment which they have to recover selling low profit items one at a time. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Thanks for bringing it up.
As for rejection, I think you have the wrong idea about it. To paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield, if most writers never got rejected they would not get any readers at all.
just came across your site...thanks for all of the great information. i'm new to this world - just found a lit. agent - and am thankful for all of your helpful posts.
Anonymous said, on 5/1/2009 5:32:00 PM
I remember telling some Ladies of RWA about the Espresso machine and they shouted , "FIE! You lying liar that lies! Publishing shall change not!" then turned their back to me with a sniff.
I am having a small moment of shadenfraude. Not to big otherwise it will upset my karmic balance of good.
Great links as usual, Nathan! Dog and I read them together every Friday. I don't think we'll be doing that anymore after today. The cockatoo video inspired Dog to growl and lunge for the screen, inspiring me, in turn, to leap up with a shriek as the iced tea Dog knocked over in the process poured into my lap.
Dog, of course, hopped down from the desk, looked over his shoulder with disdain and trotted into the other room as though I should have known better than to click on a bird video.
ah, the headbanging at the very end is the treat in that video. (No, I didn't actually watch, the entire thing. Among the top inventions of all time (no disrespect to the ball point pen and the flowbee) is the "fast forward" button.)
Lots of stuff to read this week; thanks for the links, as always!
I've found myself gravitating towards more YA books recently. Perhaps it's because the premises of the stories are catching my attention more so than books in the "grown-up" section.
Then again, I'm still fairly young at 24, so that may have something to do with it too. :P
Everyone I know who is obsessed with Twilight is my age (28). I read the first (never in public, of course) and I was into it at the time, but now I can't really remember what it is I liked about it.
I'm definitely much more comfortable getting out the Tolstoy on the tram, which is pretty sad when you think about it. Why do I care what a bunch of strangers think about what I'm reading? I have the urge to start reading picture books now and see if I attract a different sort of attention.
I 2nd that on reading YA because write YA. Had no idea more moms were reading YA, but being a mom who reads YA, I don't follow that crowd. Not too many mammas read Spinelli or Zindel, eh?
Paula (R.I.P) wrote with a sense of humor; Blume--meh...--got all about the sex and friendship too much for my taste. Cleary had it right with a balance of humor and class.
One huge reason I don't write literary: that mob-like snobbery belongs in the fertilizer compost pile.
"I expected to feel older when I was fast approaching a quarter of a century. I don't"
Neither did I. Nor when I was fast approaching a half century. Not even now as I plod on toward three quarters of a century. Chronological age no longer matters. It's all in the attitude. I still read a YA now and then and I've even managed to write a YA SF novella.
That Backstreet Boys song is a guilty pleasure of mine. And I think the bird has better moves than me as well.
Anonymous said, on 5/1/2009 9:18:00 PM
Ah...the Twilight phenom. My favorite subject!
Twilight was written by a 35-year-old Mormon mother of three boys - she wrote it for herself and for her friends. So, surprise! Women in their 20s, 30s, and 40s+ love it. Including this 36-year-old mother. I will admit it; I was hooked. Read the series five times in two months. I think it was around 12,000 pages. My husband is glad to have me back. :-)
The parrot was...kinda disturbing. But hilarious.
Anonymous said, on 5/1/2009 9:53:00 PM
What have you got against Susan Boyle? You wanted to be a singer and couldn't make it? Or you are just being a man and think she is an ugly @#$%^
Is it a mind block? Knowing that Twilight appeals to teenagers' (esp girls!!) sense of romance, I would never pick it up, never go near it. Pls do not blight all moms over 30 by saying they seem to love it. May be only the kind who...
KathyF said, on 5/2/2009 12:11:00 AM
I'm pass the half century mark, and I find I read more and more YA. (Although Twilight didn't appeal to me so I haven't read that.)
But maybe I'm going through a second teenager-hood.
Anonymous said, on 5/2/2009 5:11:00 AM
kindle is bundle espresso is impresso coz it'll help the writers who are fighters n agents can't run pageants. editors are predators publishers paper pushers 'nuff bring on espresso n let meek inherit the scrolls
Lighten up! It's okay to be a stereotype sometimes. Or not.
Just buy it on your Kindle...no one has to know ;)
In all seriousness, I am that demographic and so are all my friends. We are M.D.s, lawyers, M.F.A.s, and PhDs so we aren't a dumb crowd and we all loved Twilight. We also all feel like we probably shouldn't. Plain old junk food for the brain. Even health nuts like Pringles every now and then!
Anonymous said, on 5/2/2009 6:25:00 AM
There's no telling for music tastes. My Goffins Cockatoo boogies to "Love Me Like a Rock," by The Dixie Hummingbirds.
No electronic books in this house, other than the free ones on the Internet. I sometimes just browse them for info. The less time spent on the information highway, the better, these days.
Heard about the Espresso. Thought it was a joke. The fellow who passed along the info said he had to recheck the date of his source to make sure it wasn't April 1.
I think Espresso sounds kind of cool. Sort of like POD for the end user...
I still don't think it will take off like a Kindle type device since you have to actually go to a bookstore and know what you're buying first. If I know what I want already I go to Amazon but I go to the bookstore to browse.
I wonder if the titles available would be restricted like the ones on Kindle? Seems like yes.
Anonymous said, on 5/2/2009 11:01:00 AM
Hey, regarding Moms (raising hand here) and YA: I always read with my daughter. It was something we shared that we both have treasured. As she got into her teens, I didn't read *everything* but I still read Harry Potter and all the fantasy books with her. Then after she grew up and left home, I still read her books.We continue to share a love of fantasy novels. I was pretty lonely without her, watching Disney and fantasy movies though. So I made my husband stop mocking them so he could watch them with me too, which he now admits that he likes too -though he won't touch the YA books.(He's way to manly!)
My parakeet, Petie, loved John Phillip Sousa. He could whistle the piccolo part to Stars and Stripes, bopping his head up and down and strutting along his perch. He also loved to sing to my mother's piano. Needless to say, she covered him up when she taught lessons in her studio.
Thanks for the shout out in defense of moms reading YA. I don't have the "my kids are reading it" excuse yet since one is just starting to read Dr. Seuss independently and the other is just now mastering letters.
From a business perspective it seems that publishers should be (and are) aware of who is buying their books. Aspiring authors should also have a good feel for where their book would be positioned in the market. How can you sell something if you don't know who your consumer is? And why would you leave money on the table by ignoring people who want to buy it? Whether we should or not, thirty-something moms do like popular fiction that was originally intended for the YA market. Not all of us, but enough to put the Twilight books on half of Amazon's top ten seller slots.
I bet it's a lot harder than we think to write a "bad" book that sells as well as some of the ones we like to trash at cocktail parties.
That parrot video was incredible. So funny! And cute. He was having such a good time.
Hey Nathan, I just want to mention I was very polite to your visitor from the publishing industry. I didn't bring up anything about marketing and dodo heads.
I did it out of respect for you. Which is cool, but while imposing such an unfamiliar self-discipline upon myself, I'm pretty sure I broke something.
I'll be sending you the medical bill. It's only fair.
KathyF said, on 5/2/2009 4:12:00 PM
Laurel,
I think you're right about the Expresso. But I'd use it. There have been several times that I've gone to the bookstore for a particular book. The store didn't have it, and I just didn't want to go through the hassle of ordering it (and having to wait for a call).
Because of some of the things Amazon has done over the last couple of years, I'm avoiding buying from them for now. (I'll probably end up buying a couple of things from them, but not anywhere as much as I would have before.) But I do realize that most folks won't feel that way and will do what's easiest for them and Amazon is pretty easy.
As for the Expresso selection, from what I read it looks like it could be more than just the Kindle list since it's supposed to handle a lot of different formats.
I wish the Expresso was in my local store so I could try it out.
We've actually had the Espresso machine here in Melbourne since last year. Tsk tsk, late to the party you are!
Anonymous said, on 5/3/2009 12:45:00 PM
Nathan, thanks for taking so much of your time to keep up this fantastic blog. Quick question on YA/MG. What is the inside-the-publishing -industry scuttlebutt on the Alex Rider series? Are editors chomping at the bit, trying to publish hundreds of new books that appeal to the many fans of the Alex Rider series?
Anonymous said, on 5/3/2009 3:34:00 PM
I thought I bombed my pitch session this weekend, but after reading Janet Reid's post, I feel better. I tried to follow your advice, Nathan, although it may take a little more practice unless the agent to whom I pitched adores my work.
I still hate the pitch sessions, but a writer must do what a writer must do.
The end of literature as we know it? That was funny, Nathan.
There was so much to discuss in these links, I don't know where to start.
I'm very interested in the Espresso, and how it might change the business world of books. Seems like a really nice innovation for small bookstores and the 'returns' policy.
Also, a really interesting idea to have cliffhangers in books.
There so many new ideas coming forward due to new technoligies - it's exciting.
Allison's article is a good one, but with all due respect, she seems to be in her own way searching for a way to justify what is essentially declining expectations in quality writing.
There are lots of good stories going unread because they don't have an easily marketable profile, and I think it's more to do with lack of marketing nous than anything. Why break it if it ain't broke, right?
Yes, I'm one of those wannabes who had his MS rejected because the agent couldn't figure out how to sell it. But somebody has to kick into a fresh trail at some point, don't they? I would have done the leg work had I been asked.
I'm beginning to see "sampling" in the publishing industry just as I saw it in the music industry about a decade ago. Consumable and disposable entertainment that only needed to move an ass or two for a couple of weeks. Hey, I guess that's fine if the public is buying it, but there is still a point to be made about entertainment that challenges and rewards in that sense.
If we use the dollar as our highest barometer for "good storytelling", we may find ourselves lamenting a culture that's simply biding its time rather than defining it.
Well, my teenagers read Stephen King and Michael Moorcock, they only read YA when it's assigned at school. But a lot of it is well-written and enjoyable, no different than watching a TV drama instead of going to the theatre.
Never got into the Twilight thing, but Prachett's juveniles, particularly the Tiffany Aching series, is touching, intelligent and well written enough for someone who also reads Tolstoy, Nabokov and Steinbeck.
This is off topic but I have a great interview with my sister if you guys and gals wanna check it out and meet her. She's A FANTASTIC writer. But I am a little biased since we're related an all.
Yes, this week in publishing on a Thursday. This afternoon I'm headed to the Pike's Peak Writers Conference, and I'm looking forward to meeting some of you there!
Also, a plea for my e-mail subscribers: I really want to hear from you (I do) but please please please don't e-mail me your responses to blog topics. That's what the blog is for. Those e-mails go to my work e-mail account, and I really need to keep my Inbox clear for work. If you'd like to weigh in and join the conversation, please click the title of the post in the e-mail, which will take you directly to my blog.
If you scroll down to the very bottom of the page that opens up when you click the blog title, you'll see a link that says "Post a Comment." Click that.
Then enter your comment in the window and sign in to your Google (or other) account or click the Anonymous bubble to leave a comment as anonymous. Don't forget to enter the word verification (in this case "beerpas" -- which is kind of awesome), and then click Publish Your Comment:
If you have trouble: please consult the nearest teenager. Everyone who has already e-mailed comments officially gets amnesty, but from here on out I might have to unsubscribe repeat offenders.
Is is okay to e-mail me questions about publishing or your project provided that you first check the FAQs to see if your answer is there. I regret that I'm not able to answer every question.
Cool? Cool.
Now then! Onto the week in publishing.
First up: who wants a free printer? I see a lot of hands. My good friend Holly Burns is currently giving away a free HP Photosmart printer on her blog. You just have to leave a comment about why you want it. It's that easy. (US residents only. Sorry furranners!)
Allison Brennan was extremely kind to include her query in the Be An Agent for a Day challenge, and this week she blogged about the experience and the odd (and not so odd) reasons why some agents for a day rejected her query.
Lynn Viehl was awesome enough to post her most recent royalty statement online, meaning you too can attempt to make sense of a document so confusing it may as well be written in Sanskrit. Luckily, agent translators are standing by. (I kid, Penguin. Your statements aren't too bad. Your contracts, on the other hand, should be sent with a free magnifying glass).
Innovating editor Jon Karp of Twelve recently wrote a PW article with twelve (of course) recommendations for the publishing industry, including ending Kabuki publishing and putting out much fewer books. Dan Menaker posted a hilarious response with his own suggestions (sample: 2. No more landscape- or seascape-only cover images.) , and G.B.H. Hornswoggler (aka Andrew Wheeler) weighed in a bit more seriously. He's less sanguine than Jon about the public's supposed disdain for books like other books, and worries about the effects of massive downsizing on reader selection. (via Other Lisa's Twitter feed, via lots of other @people)
Speaking of innovation, bestselling author David Hewson posted a seriously awesome article about the hypothetical possibility of an author self-publishing collective loosely based on the old actor-led movie studio United Artists. David knows there are some details still to be worked out, but folks, this is likely what at least part of the future will look like. (And yes, he notes that agents will still be important, although in a slightly different role). Via MJ Rose.
Ever wondered about the difference between galleys (bound and early designed) and ARCs? Ms. Sally Spitfire is here to help.
Epub is already here and will just get bigger. It will probably end up being a morph of the current model, with an editorial process, and some of the fledgling companies already in existence. Of course Amazon is already doing something like this.
I left textbook publishing recently and the question I most often heard from students at student orientation was "Can I buy just the ebook?" followed by "Is it cheaper?" The crowd coming out of college and grad school right now is actually just as happy, if not more so, with digital copy as an actual book.
Everyone seems frustrated with the current system to a certain extent. The collective idea needs some polish but it would be nice to have an alternative. Competition makes everyone better!
RE: all of us sycophants, I think that people just want to share the love, which is a good thing, not a bad thing. Nathan is a really decent guy, and I think if he was writing a blog about funny things his cat does people would still like it and bring on the love fest.
PS Nathan, do you have a cat? If so, can you start writing about funny things it does? One "Stuff on My Cat" is just not enough...
At the risk of sounding sycophantic...a lot of commenters on this blog have queried Nathan and been passed on. Others are agented elsewhere. And others are interested in exploring alternate roads to publication that may not even involve agents.
So I'd like to suggest that there may be reasons beyond sycophancy that draw people here. Like, it's a friendly, informative place in what can be a very tough business.
I know, right? I have no plans to query Nathan. I like to read the blog. Plus it's fun to go somewhere sort of apolitical.
I'm pretty amazed at the amount of time he spends doing this in addition to regular job requirements. And he seems infinitely patient with the questions. Even when someone asks for information already on the site he just tells them where to find it. I'm not that sweet.
I thought maybe Ian was kidding and the sarcasm didn't come through in print.
Anonymous said, on 4/23/2009 7:19:00 PM
Thanks for telling those of us who didn't grow up with all this techno-crap how to leave a comment. I'm making mine anonymous because I'm sure you think my tone is sarcastic and you won't appreciate me when I'm a famous writer. Also because I would have to create an account and that is just way too much work to leave a comment.
You may hear more from me in the future, but it depends on how much work it takes for me to switch applications at my boring writing area between sips of lattes. I'm very busy.
Appallingly, I forgot to check up on the author-for-a-day project and missed out on being able to enter reviews. I went back last night and read all the queries...wow. I didn't pick ANY of the published stories. On the other hand, I didn't think any of the queries of the stories that were published were all that good, so I feel less intimidated.
Nathan-- I know you'll have a great time at PPWC. It's a wonderful conference. They may be all volunteers (except for Martha), but those folks know what they're doing.
I know you are really busy, but if you have time someday, could you answer a question about the role of agents at writers conferences? There is an annual conference near my home and every year writers can sign up for a private manuscript evaluation with an agent or editor.
It's an additional charge of about $150 for a half an hour. Do you think this is worth the money?
I have several writing friends who have paid the money and were encouraged to submit material that was later rejected. One year the agent pretty much encouraged everyone to submit, only to turn them all down. The writing community where I live is pretty small so I heard the same story from many different people.
Would writers be better off saving the money and just submitting the old fashion way, or does meeting someone at a conference get a manuscript more attention than the slush pile?
Thanks for any light you can shine on this subject!
I'm tired and sort of in an argumentative mood today. I really didn't mean to say that individual publishers were dodo heads. I'm sorry I said that Jon Karp was - I'm sure he's a good person trying to find solutions to difficult problems. I shouldn't sum him up like that, that was awful. Sorry.
It's the publishing industry as a whole that, I believe, makes terrible business decisions. Those terrible business decisions are long-standing and have nothing to do with the current economy.
That's my belief. I think the industry as a whole is a dodo head when it comes to business.
Oh, if you want to know why I think the publishing industry is a dodo head, it's because it is the only major industry that has no concept whatsoever of the importance of marketing.
YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so excited that you are coming to Colorado. Can't wait to meet you! So, if you see a "voluptuous and sensuous" blond (the words of a fellow writer who asked if she can take my picture because I remind her of her character) that's me! :) Hope to see you soon. Oh... and drink lots of water... you're coming up just a few feet in elevation here. ;)
mkcbunny said, on 4/23/2009 10:51:00 PM
The collective idea is really interesting. In my experience, it works well for visual artists trying to gain control of their options (guaranteed shows, higher profit, control over who you show with and the space you show in, among other things). In that model, the spaces that I have seen work well have high-quality creative talents involved who are also business-minded.
This could work for writers, but it does seem to me that in order for it to really work, you'd also need to involve an editor, copy editor, accountant, business manager and someone in what would amount to the agent position for the group. So, isn't that, as noted in the original blog, just a small publishing house?
Maybe a writer-owned/driven house is the way, but I do think that it would morph into a small publisher pretty quickly. And once the core group is rolling, do they vet and add new folks? I would think that they would want to to increase the business.
Then, those core founders would have to start devoting more time to managing their collective. And what's their percentage/extra benefit from that? The quality of the business? That'd work for starters, but eventually, I'd think the time commitment would inspire a desire for compensation. That could be built into the starting formula, but that would necessitate forethought in setting up the business plan and contracts for incoming writers.
All interesting questions, I think, as far as whether it's an adventure to embark upon. Some writers would be far better suited to it than others.
PurpleClover said: "@" thing just took off? (Thanks to Stuart!)
I mean seriously...did I just not notice it before or did this just start today? --------------- @ is used on Twitter. Is that why people started using it here? Just wondered. It drove me nuts for a bit on Twitter, until I figured out how Twitter was using it. On Twitter, @ designates the person being addressed or referred to.
@ is pretty common around the ol' Interweb traps. In fact, the idea to use @ on Twitter came from the members, not the creators. People just started using it to get the attention of who they were talking to, and the creators picked up on that and made it a feature.
@Mira - I agree. I think the inability to connect readers to books that interest them is one of the biggest problems in publishing. As a good friend of mine, a huge reader, says, "Where is my iTunes for books?"
Word verification: ballypo. It feels like it should mean something profound, but I'm not sure what.
Nathan, I stole the "Agent for a Day" idea for my AP English classes, and it worked beautifully. My students became "Exam Graders for a Day" and got to experience grading 18 of the same essays (from their classmates). It worked beautifully, and they came away UNDERSTANDING lessons I've tried to teach them all year (i.e., Why it's Unwise to use the First Idea that Pops into your Head). So thanks for giving me such a good idea... maybe this activity will become the meme to defeat the #fail meme! (Nah, probably not.)
There and i thought you preferred emails. But thanks for informing how to post comments here in an idiot proof guide. I am finally posting a comment here!
I'm glad that worked so well in your class. I experienced the same as a student in my college senior seminar and it was a cool assignment. We all swapped seminar papers, meant to be the apex of our work as English majors. I chose The Sound and The Fury as my subject. Unfortunately the tool who got my paper tried to rip it to shreds in front of the class.
I was vindicated, however, in two ways. He picked on a Biblical reference I pulled from the book, citing my analysis as a mistake. (I'll never forget it. "Benjanin, beloved youngest son of Jacob" was what I wrote. He corrected me in an offhand manner with,"Actually, it was Israel but that's not important," to which I responded, "Jacob and Israel were the same person." He had been so rough on my work that the class applauded.) Since I was raised Baptist, the Southern variety, it's not a good idea to wrangle with me on scripture.
I got the highest grade in the class on my paper. HA!
My point is this. I think this tendency to look for flaws leads us to see non-existent problems, which happened some in the query contest. I've seen it everywhere some sort of peer review is employed.
I found something seemingly contradictory. In the article by Jon Karp, he says, "Stop the copycat books... They are the equivalent of pack journalism, and most of the time, we wind up looking like a bunch of rats chasing a chunk of stale cheese."
This seems to go against your comments following the Agent-for-a-Day contest when you stated, "originality is (somewhat) overrated..." I think that you might have been talking in terms of originality in creating "new genres" is over-rated, but was wondering if you could tease that out more?
Thanks for the article link from David Hewson. I found the graphs (Author's manuscript --> readers)fascinating. They sum up the differences in two in-your-face visuals.
The link about United Artists was a great companion piece.
The opportunities for change seem to be floating in the wind... humm,is the virtual wind--actually Twitter?
Could I please make an appeal on your site Nathan? I need to know how "to highlight my vision for marketing my book" - Anyone have any suggestions of what I could do?
it never hurts to try to look a bit sassy. 'try' is the catch word here. since we discussed susan boyle at lenght, thought can't just let this pass....
I re-read Jon Karp's suggestions. It's not like everything he said has no merit. And I'm sure he is a nice person trying to find solustions. But basically, I stand by my original assertion:
Other Lisa, thanks, I couldn't agree more! I hope that the new electronic age helps publishers see the benefit of marketing, but I'm not holding my breath.
Here are my 12 suggestions for improvements in the publishing industry:
1. Do an overall market analysis. 2. Pick a market. 3. Envision a product that will sell to that market. 4. Put out a call for that product. 5. Find product(s). 6. Prepare product for distribution. 7. Focus test product. 8. Distribute product. 9. Advertise product. 10. Advertise product. 11. Advertise product. 12. Advertise product.
13. Rake in the money. 14. Use some of that money on developing new products that might find a market.
That way you could avoid some of mr. dodo head's suggestions, like downsizing, and forcing authors to market out of their already miniscule percentage of the pie.
Ian, can you loan me your sincerity detector? I've always wanted the magic ability to walk into a room full of people and instantly know who was full of it.
oliver said, on 4/24/2009 11:12:00 AM
Maybe this is for next week's "This Week in Publishing"
I'm psyched for this... one more thorn in Amazon's side.
Kate H said, on 4/24/2009 11:21:00 AM
Re: United Authors
I have a feeling the negatives would outweigh the positives of this model, although I like the idea theoretically. But what I want to see is some model (no idea what it would look like) in which: a) writers get to be writers, not business people, not marketers; and b) good writers get to make a living from writing.
As it stands now, authors are increasingly expected to do more and more of what used to be the publisher's job, but they are not getting a bigger piece of the pie. In fact, of all the people involved in the publishing process, writers are the only ones who (in the vast majority of cases) cannot make a living from their contribution. And the writers are the ones without whom the industry would not exist!
One can adduce all kinds of reasons this situation is inevitable, but fair it is not.
Excellent blog, Nathan, I forward it to everyone, including my own agent. I'm de-lurking for just a moment to suggest that you add a Share button so your readers can post entries they like to their Facebook et al pages. Thanks!
Laurel, I've said this before, and I'll say it again:
I'm never wrong. I can't help it if the truth changes all the time.
Kate H. - I could not agree more! Very eloquent - thank you!
Although I'm not sure how much the publishing industry care that the system is not fair to writers. I do think the paradigm will shift with e-publishing, and writers will have a chance to take their power back.
The idea of a collective is a part of that shift, I think.
I have to take exception to your characterization of Jonathan Karp as a dodo head.
Here's the first 2 of the "12 things to remember about Twelve" -
1 Each book will enliven the national conversation. 2 Each book will be singular in voice, authority, or subject matter. ________________________________
I love #1. "Enlivening the national conversation" is my dream! Every writer has their own reason for writing, and that's mine. An astounding lack of humility - okay, guilty as charged. But I love me some #1!
I love #2. "Each book will be singular in voice, authority, or subject matter." It's true, I just got a query critique in which my lack of, ahem, plot elements, what HAPPENED, was pointed out to me (although in my defense, I DO have plot elements! Things happen! Characters change!) But, hey, singularity of voice? Of authority and subject matter? Count me in!
Also, Twelve published "My Little Red Book," about first periods - I've got a nice menstrual book too (although it ranges much farther afield than first periods).
Therefore: Twelve Publishing is my dream publisher. The other 8 things to remember about Twelve are fine by me too.
The first two of the twelve I read was: "no more kabuki theatre" and "prioritize and specialize."
Are we reading different articles?
The main reason I thought Jon Karp's article represented him as a dodo head is it's mostly about saving money, and not about making money. Also, there are parts of it that are exploitive and short-sighted.
Just my opinion.
Oh. Wait. Are you talking about Twelve's mission statement?
Oh. Well, I haven't read their mission statement. I'm sure it's a very nice mission statement.
I have no experience of twelve as a company. I was talking about Jon Karp's (mostly) dodo head ideas.
I just realized I may not be anonymously posting in some remote corner of the universe, and maybe he would see this, and I'm being mean.
Not that he should care what some remote person who not only isn't published but hasn't written a darn thing thinks....but still.
I'm sorry.
Okay. Never mind. I'm going back to the idea that he is probably a really nice person who is trying to find complex solutions to complicated problems. He's not a dodo head.
I wouldn't pay the fee in order to get the manuscript in front of the agent (you could do that for free by querying) but only if you really and truly want the feedback. Other writers who have had critiques at conferences would probably be better at weighing in on whether they thought it was worth it.
Thanks for the suggestion on the Facebook button. I made the change, it should start showing up soon.
Anonymous said, on 4/24/2009 6:40:00 PM
This is a test run. My last comment didn't show up where it should have....did I screw up and harass Nathan at his email account? Really, this is stupidly easy and I am not stupid. I hope.
Anonymous said, on 4/24/2009 6:42:00 PM
It worked! So where the hell did my other comment go?
I was just thinking about this today. My sis is going to the Backspace to pitch her memoir and all the feedback she's getting from other bloggers makes me think it would be in my best interest to try to attend one in order for my manuscript to be successful. Some of the authors we know got their agent that way.
Nathan - what is your take on conferences? Do you have a post you've already done on this?
Just wondering how successful the pitching is (getting a request and/or contract) and whether agents make those requests based on feeling hesitant to squash someone's dream.
I just finished mowing the lawn and now there is a huge storm (timing is everything).
Re: "I'm glad Twelve has been good to you! You deserve to have a good company to work with."
Twelve hasn't "been good to me" and it isn't a company I "work with." It's "merely" my dream publisher!
The menstrual book they have now is by Rachel Kauder Nalebuff. (that is, I didn't write it/collect the stories in it). No, my menstrual book is far different. Also, Tampax is involved with Nalebuff's book - so far, Tampax hasn't ponied up any money for me or my menstrual holiday - it's a long story - that could "enliven the national conversation" about menstruation? We shall see...
It's interesting (to me at least) the relationship between Tampax and women who write/make art about menstruation...and how that ends up being presented to the general public in their advertising...even though it's about menstruation, the whole thing has a bit of a...Cheneyian (is that a word?) feel to it...and I turn, become a "Voldemortian" figure, she-who-shall-not-be-named (with a nod to Rowling)...you have no idea what I'm talking about, do you? Didn't think so.
But someone mentioned Kabuki theater - you know how in Kabuki, they wear those really layered, elaborate costumes and makeup...and they move in specific prescribed ways...it's like all the focus on that first period (menarche) - call it menarche Kabuki -
**I'm now officially rambling**
Okay, that's it.
Mira, we're still SIBs (Sisters In Blogging), unless you've decided we're not.
Here's my take on it - think of it like homework - when you get your feedback, just pretend you turned in a draft of a paper, the teacher made comments on it, so it's your job as the student to address those issues the teacher brought up.
Just separate out your desire for an agent, your feelings about the publishing industry as a whole, the impossibility of this or the implausibility of that...it's just homework. "Just do it" and don't pretend the dog ate it.
I predict that someday, YOU will be Twelve's dream author.
By the way, since you are all my very close friends, and this site is so quiet, I will now share with you that at 1:30 a.m yesterday, I opened a letter that officially accepted me to Grad school.
Mira said: "By the way, since you are all my very close friends, and this site is so quiet, I will now share with you that at 1:30 a.m yesterday, I opened a letter that officially accepted me to Grad school."
"It's interesting (to me at least) the relationship between Tampax and women who write/make art about menstruation...and how that ends up being presented to the general public in their advertising...even though it's about menstruation, the whole thing has a bit of a...Cheneyian (is that a word?) feel to it...and I turn, become a "Voldemortian" figure, she-who-shall-not-be-named (with a nod to Rowling)...you have no idea what I'm talking about, do you? Didn't think so."What are you talking about?
Keep in mind I know nothing about 'Tampax,' 'women who write/make art about menstruation,' or how that relates to Dick Cheney.
First, I congratulate you on getting accepted to grad school. Second, I give up. I tried to figure out WHAT you would be going to grad school for - cultural anthropology? Comparative literature? Politics? Maybe you already mentioned it and I missed it.
Also, more advice! I was flipping through channels and came across America's Top Model, and Tyra Banks was giving a tearful competitor this advice: "Don't let that other girl get into your head."
It seems like a handy piece of advice for grad school (I have an MFA in poetry myself - is that considered grad school?) - you can substitute "professor" or "advisor" or "committee" for "that other girl" as needed.
Secondly, if this post gets deleted - oh well, I accept that it has a high deletability quotient.
Third, in answer to your question...well, I can't really answer your question in the space of a blog entry - this morning I started writing an essay, "Menarche Kabuki / Menstrual Astroturf," hopefully I will be finished with it by this Menstrual Monday (May 4th, the Monday before Mother's Day, natch!).
But - this idea of "enlivening the national conversation" - #1 in Twelve's 12 Things to Remember about Twelve - not everyone wants the national conversation enlivened - some may want it deadened. So, looking at things from the political theater perspective, the most subtle way to do that is - make a big show of enlivening the national conversation! When you are really aiming at the opposite - that is the Kabuki element. "The Big Show." The makeup and fancy clothes and what they call "stylization."
I mean, if you think about it - what is more stylized than Astroturf? Both synthetic turf and corporate-funded "grassroots" activism.
So, when it comes to menstrual creativity - there's an actual history there separate from Eve Ensler (Vagina Monologues and Tampax-funded) and now Rachel Kauder Nalebuff (My Little Red Book and some relationship to Tampax - what is it exactly, I wonder?) - historical fact is a stubborn thing. I invented the Menstrual Monday holiday in 2000 - and I also had tampon-related toxic shock syndrome. Tampax can fund all the writers they want to, and donate as much as they want to charities - I still invented Menstrual Monday and still had toxic shock syndrome. Women still celebrate Menstrual Monday - and a very very few of the tampon-users in the world, still develop tampon-related toxic shock.
Historical fact - the Breakfast of Champions.
*****
That may not answer your question - and you probably don't really care - but hey, a little creative unfolding on Sunday morning - it's a good (though deletable) thing.
Laurel and Wanda, thanks too! I like having SIBs. :-)
I highly recommend getting accepted to college. Yesterday, I noticed small changes through out the day. For example, I was suddenly smarter. People were nicer. The sunshine was brighter. Cars got out of my way on the freeway. Little birds sang when I walked by. I'm not postive, but I think I saw the faires doing a rainbow dance in my honor.
Who knew?
Boy, if this is what happens just being accepted, I may not even bother actually going.
But I think I can see why Tampax isn't touching you with a ten-foot applicator.
Anyone claiming to have had TSS related to tampons isn't going to be a great spokes-person for Tampax. This is because the public is confused assuming tampon-related TSS is connected with the use of Tampons when in actuality it is the misuse of tampons. Tampax doesn't want to be associated with something that they can't control.
So I would drop the whole thing about TSS in querying if you are looking for publishing and/or looking for Tampax to sponsor your holiday. Unless you are writing a pamphlet warning about the dangers of leaving a tampon in too long the mention of TSS will only hinder you. Why not try Playtex?
I really want to understand. I want this to relate to getting your book published, but it is sounding more like a rant then anything.
My post above sounded harsher than I intended (after reading it again).
My suggestion is if you want to be a spokesperson and write books for a company consider dropping the TSS from any mention and consider a new company -- Playtex, for instance. Tampax may have you on their "avoid" list already. The great thing about Playtex is they are more family friendly so you could get more opportunities for future writes. More exposure. Plus if Tampax has a spokesperson...maybe that would be a great pitch for Playtex. :)
Maybe you're the next "it" they're looking for.
Just a suggestion. Unless I've totally confused myself with the intent of your comments.
I noticed that you are very receptive to query letters. How many query letters do you receive daily? Do you really have time to read them all?
Kate H said, on 4/27/2009 11:47:00 AM
PurpleClover: I have found writers' conferences helpful in meeting agents. Sometimes you can get an agent's attention in person whereas if you sent a query in the usual way it might not get past their assistant. But do your homework beforehand and make sure the agents who will be at the conference are really agents who might be interested in your work and whom you really want to work with.
If you do get agent interest at a conference, don't let your hopes soar too stratospherically. On more than once occasion, I've had strong interest expressed and still not had the deal ultimately go through. In one case, the agent suggested a revision, then left the industry before I could get her the revised manuscript!
That seems to be the response I'm getting is that if you are looking to get noticed in the slush, conferences can be a great opportunity. But I haven't seen stats or numbers (I'm a numbers kind of gal).
Nathan, I read the United Authors blog post you listed (and thank you very much for pointing to it - very good analysis), and I have a question for you.
What would you do if you received a query from a debut writer, it looked very strong, you fell in love with the manuscript, got in touch with the author to talk about representation, and they floated this to you: "I'd like to represent myself to publishers/self-publish for print and ebooks (and btw here's my marketing plan and editorial resources), but I'd like your representation for foreign distribution, tv and film."
According to the blog post, this is the way of the future, but would any agent be ready to go for that? It seems the business model would be difficult to manage in the transition while the agent still had their hands full with clients under more conventional terms.
You might also want to encourage your readers to listen to Litopia Daily podcasts next week in which, if I'm not mistaken, your name actually comes up.
First off, thank you once again to everyone who is participating in Be An Agent for a Day, which has been so much fun. The comments on the queries will close Saturday night, and results and stats on Monday!
Now that we have 10,000+ comments I have realized that compiling these stats will not be remotely possible on my own. I am humbly requesting ten volunteers to help me with stat compiling this Sunday. (I'm also happy to barter a query critique for your trouble -- first 10 volunteers in the comments section UPDATE: the 10 spots are filled, thanks so much, volunteers)
Now then. Some fantastic news from a familiar name. Terry DeHart (aka terryd), finalist in the Surprisingly Essential First Page Challenge, let me know that he has just received a two-book deal from Orbit for the book he used in the contest!! Congratulations to Terry!
[schadenfreude](Oh. And remember the people who were mad about my choices for the finals of that contest? I sure do!) [/schadenfreude]
In publishing news, NPR recently did a story on the state of the publishing industry and Pub Lunch (subscription) linked to an accompanying article. Per Pub Lunch, Random House Publishing Group spokesperson Carol Schneider explained the current marketplace thusly: "We're acquiring fewer books... There are no specific numbers or formula involved here--we're simply being more selective in all categories--literary, commercial, blockbuster." And...... there you have it.
Meanwhile, there are rumors afoot that Barnes & Noble may enter the e-reader market with a device that could challenge the Sony Reader, Kindle, and (insert device of the future here). Any bets on what B&N will call it? I hope they go with Barnes. As in, "I read your book on my Barnes, chap!" And yes, it would probably force me to call people "chap".
You may have heard a great deal about a "glitch" dubbed amazonfail, in which erotica and GLBT books, including some classics, were mysteriously delisted from sales rankings. In case you're curious about it all, The Millions has a very helpful breakdown of what happened and how the news spread. And I can't wait until we have failfail. "Fail" needs. to. go.
Via Neil Vogler, the Guardian reports that the guy behind PRIDE AND PREJUDICE AND ZOMBIES just got a monster (get it? get it?) book deal from Grand Central.
Grove editor Jofie Ferrari-Adler has added another excellent entry in his series of agent interviews for Poets and Writers. A must read.
Cynthia Leitich Smith announced that Katherine Paterson, author of BRIDGE TO TERABITHIA, Curtis Brown client, and truly wonderful person (seriously she's so nice), has established a prize for YA and children's writing at Hunger Mountain, the arts journal of the Vermont College of Fine Arts. Click on over for that.
In writing advice news, thanks to John Ochwat for pointing me to Pat Holt's blog post on ten mistakes writers often make but don't often notice. It's not on the list, but you might not have noticed that the first letter of every paragraph spells a bad word. Just thought you should know.
And finally, someone is going to have to explain this Susan Boyle thing to me. What exactly are we supposed to take from it? That it's surprising that people from a humble background can be wildly talented? That you have to look like Britney Spears in order sing... better than Britney Spears? 20 million YouTube views later and I'm struggling to understand.
Have a great weekend!
104 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 5/12/2009
Wanda B. Ontheshelves said, on 4/17/2009 6:09:00 PM
Re: "And congrats, compilers, although I think it would be cool to make the queries public for feedback."
As one of the Compiling Ten, I think non-public is the way to go. Anyway that's my preference. (I have started compiling already - low, low acceptance rates so far - I was starting to feel a little sorry for the queriers!)
Marilyn Peake said, on 4/17/2009 6:14:00 PM
Other Lisa,
Oh, thank you so much for that link! It restores my faith in those very talented filmmakers (and in humanity in general).
Angie Mizzell said, on 4/17/2009 6:15:00 PM
I had a similar thought about the Susan Boyle story today when I saw her on the Today Show. But I think what was so compelling about the video, beside the fact that her voice is amazing, was the reaction from the judges and the audience. They were definitely doubting her and not taking her seriously. The looks on their faces as she sang the first note were priceless. It's hard to say what any of us would have done or thought if we had seen the event unfold in real time, but most of us viewed the video knowing already she was a phenomenal singer. Just a thought to throw in the ring.
Genny said, on 4/17/2009 6:24:00 PM
I clicked over and watched the Susan Boyle video...good for her! I agree with Jen; it's a great reminder to never give up on your dreams.
By the way, I've really enjoyed reading the "agent for a day" queries and comments. Very fun and informative.
Have a great weekend.
Anonymous said, on 4/17/2009 6:38:00 PM
How you look matters in freelance writing. Unattractive people often don't get bylines in the big magazines -- magazines like to have pictures of their writers...
Rachel said, on 4/17/2009 6:43:00 PM
Marilyn:
Regarding Slumdog...the children actually were paid well and they were secured spots in nice schools for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately, their parents squandered the money and aren't taking them to school. So...the producers of Slumdog did right. It's just a sad, sad case of the realities of life in slums.
Jen C said, on 4/17/2009 6:50:00 PM
FAIL isn't dead! I still like FAIL. Have you seen failblog.org? Classic!
Jen, who loves to see crazes through until they're amazingly, unbelievably annoying and everyone wants to dig their own eyes and ears out with spoons so that they never have to encounter them again.
FibCarver said, on 4/17/2009 6:57:00 PM
Thanks for the Holt Uncensored link, Nathan. Hubby & I run a writers' forum and we're going to be pointing people in that general direction to have a darn good read.
That Scottish lady ... when she opened her mouth and that unbelievably gorgeous sound came out, it filled my heart. I've watched the video five times and it still makes me tear up with wonder.
Alyssa said, on 4/17/2009 7:14:00 PM
I think everyone likes having their expectations upended positively. Whether it's because you expect that an older, not terribly attractive, totally awkward woman can't sing.. or if you are like me, a reality-TV cynic who expects most people who go onto these shows to be mostly talentless. I think we all know that the producers of these shows will let a select number of people who are laughably bad through the screening process for early elimination. Because we humans are total jerks and like to laugh at people who are unappealing for some reason who've just gotten their dreams crushed. (I don't exempt myself from this category, I love watching Gordon Ramsay yell at young, cocky chefs when they burn the risotto.)
I think the Susan Boyle story was a very clever bait and switch. I *have* to assume that the show folks knew what people who think when they saw her, and knew how to manipulate that to make a good bit of TV. I am glad that in this case, good reality TV lined up with fulfilling someone's dream... but I am too jaded to believe that it was purely good intentions.
Marilyn Peake said, on 4/17/2009 7:18:00 PM
Rachel,
Wow. That is very sad.
Tricia from England said, on 4/17/2009 7:22:00 PM
I think the Susan Boyle thing is not so much about her humble background, but more about preconception by the audience (at the audition and on TV) that she'd have a voice to match her looks. According to a few people on forums here in the UK, who were at the theatre for that audition, a lot was cut out in the edit, and she was given a particularly hard time by the judges, especially Amanda Holden, the female one, who was laughing her head off when Susan walked on, and tried to discourage her from doing the Les Mis number and do something by Britney Spears instead, much to the amusement of the audience.
I see she's already had a bit of a makeover since it was recorded, and the grey frizz has gone. She'll look like Julia Roberts by the final, no doubt...
disorderly said, on 4/17/2009 7:26:00 PM
Nathan, if you never do another worthwhile thing as long as you live, you've discharged your duty admirably by providing a link to Pat Holt's blog posting about ten common--and commonly overlooked--writing mistakes. I salute you, sir...and Pat, too. :-)
Jo said, on 4/17/2009 7:31:00 PM
Re. the Susan Boyle thing. I agree that the surprise seems out of proportion. I for one am much more surprised to find that someone who looks like a perfectly proportioned, coiffed mannequin can sing or dance or act or do anything more than look ornamental.
Rachel said, on 4/17/2009 7:33:00 PM
Marilyn,
I know, it is. I've actually been through the slums in Mumbai and it's shocking. But it's the only life the people who live there know. Without any kind of social infrastructure to help them transition, it's no wonder they've kept within their comfort zone. Anyway, have a good weekend.
Anonymous said, on 4/17/2009 8:09:00 PM
From the Susan Boyle story, I took that the producers of the show understood that conventional reality TV has jumped the shark, and that it's time to re-evaluate the formula of constantly making fun of people making fools of themselves.
Alyssa's right, it's too big a coincidence. The show people didn't interview the singer in enough depth to find out that she'd "never been kissed" while ALSO missing her many years of talent contests.
Anyway, what really troubles me on "This Week In Publishing" is the PubLunch thing. Agents are ultimately salespeople, after all, and if the publishers are cutting back on what they buy, there's not much the agent can do. I ask because long ago in the 90s, I had an agent who gave up on my book after about a year, saying that the market was just "too closed". I doubt he was a charlatan, since he never asked me for a cent.
So Nathan --- out of all the manuscripts by authors that you agree to represent, how many do you end up selling? Fifty percent? Ten percent? Ninety?
Kate Higgins said, on 4/17/2009 8:22:00 PM
Susan Boyle is the classic case of never judging a book by it's cover. It's the 20 million people who have been humbled not the humble woman. She is a Cinderella story without the fairy godmother only a great and hidden talent that she herself brought to the foreground. Basically she is the essence of never give up your dreams. That's why people query agents against the odds.
Dara said, on 4/17/2009 8:50:00 PM
Does anyone know when and where this whole "fail" obsession started? :P I wondered about that.
As with most internet phenomenon, it'll eventually become a thing of the past. And then something else equally as silly will take its place.
As always, thanks for all the links! :)
Wanda B. Ontheshelves said, on 4/17/2009 9:01:00 PM
Re: "So Nathan --- out of all the manuscripts by authors that you agree to represent, how many do you end up selling? Fifty percent? Ten percent? Ninety?"
Well, I just had a long conversation with my dad about proprietary information, and so my brain is going "that's proprietary information!"
Yes, I've definitely had enough on the computer time today.
Christine H said, on 4/17/2009 9:04:00 PM
From the "Ten Mistakes" article, I have to add a comment here. I agree with everything but the "regular features" phrase that was questioned. "Regular" in this context doesn't mean "ordinary."
I think it means "evenly or uniformly arranged; symmetrical."
That's how I read it, anyway.
Otherwise, I think that is a fantastic article. Most of those things I already try to avoid, but it was a good reminder to keep an eye out for them.
Mira said, on 4/17/2009 9:12:00 PM
Wow, Rachel, that is sad.
Okay. I had to leave for awhile. Upon return, I expected several people would offer to allow me to replace them as a volunteer.
Instead nothing. Nada. Zilch.
Okay. Maybe I was going about this the wrong way. Perhaps given the current climate I shouldn't try to make people feel guilty. I admit it. I's not true that no one will let me compile numbers because I don't look like Britney Spears.
What's actually true is that I look exactly like Britney Spears.
Well, not exactly. I'm alittle prettier. (Sorry, Britney, don't feel bad. We can't both be super-stars.)
(Well, maybe in this case we can, but you know what I mean.)
Don't you want someone who looks like Britney Spears (but alittle prettier) to take over your volunteer slot?
You know you do! Come on, baby, hit me once again....with that volunteer slot!
Mystery Robin said, on 4/17/2009 9:13:00 PM
That Simon is human. Seriously - it's all about watching his face light up. I don't know what it is, but seeing him seriously impressed is worth gold.
Without Simon, nobody would be twittering about Susan, I'm sorry to say.
But also, what the blonde lady in the show said - it's a wake up call against cynicism.
Anonymous said, on 4/17/2009 9:36:00 PM
Re: "So Nathan --- out of all the manuscripts by authors that you agree to represent, how many do you end up selling? Fifty percent? Ten percent? Ninety?"
It's not so much confidential as it is hard to answer. I've been a full agent for a few years and I have a lot of projects currently on submission. I've sold more than not, but there are a lot of plates in the air.
PurpleClover said, on 4/17/2009 9:57:00 PM
Mira-
I give you permission to compile all the numbers you want for queries 1-50. ;)
Nathan - can we maybe give her a job? She could be the "reference" for double checking numbers or something...anything. I'm feeling sorry for her with those puppy dog eyes and all...or would that be like rewarding bad behavior?? lol.
:)
The First Carol said, on 4/17/2009 10:31:00 PM
Unlike my taxes I thought I'd get on this right away. 6:23 PM showered, casual dress, comfy spot in most quiet domain of the house, the RV. Began. 6:31 PM needed music, estimating 3 hours for everything. 6:37 PM trying cut and paste; notepad, don't fail me now. 6:40 PM switched to WORD to boldface and copy 6:54 PM have 110 entries, estimating 1500 to go, new time estimate 7.5 hours, better take that extra half hour, eight hours, ouch. 7:02 PM have 157, all right, speeding up 7:07 PM have 192 commenters noted in spreadsheet, blogger reports 200 exist, missed eight, sh*t! 7:16 PM recount is only 197, crap. 7:31 PM up to 199, only missing one, good enough. 7:48 PM at comment #295 singing Italian with Josh Grobin, mulling over fact that Nathan is allowing additions thru Saturday. Crap. :-( Buck up, girl, crank up Utopia's Messenger of God (thank you garageband.com for that grunge). 7:58 PM missing two, blogger has crappy counter. 8:09 PM not blogger, ME, found missing agents...regrettably must go back and find 219th. 8:23 PM except for that missing 219, tally is complete. 8:25 PM Musing over the combination of the words, 'good luck in finding,' and how the displacement of a couple of vowels changes everything. New estimate, 10 hours, 8 remaining…
Tess said, on 4/17/2009 10:55:00 PM
Re Susan Boyle:
Have you ever felt undervalued?
Have you ever felt like people just don't see the beauty in who you are....don't really get what you have to offer?
Writers feel that quite a lot, I think.
If you have never felt that way...never tried to do something that others thought you could not -- then you are very lucky. And, you would likely not relate.
It's nice to see the underdog win once in a while. It gives me, for one, hope.
Mira said, on 4/17/2009 11:09:00 PM
Purple Clover - bad behavior?
Have I been bad again?
Whoops. I did it again.
Ha ha.
But go ahead. Flaunt your special volunteer status and tease the poor non-volunteer.
Never mind. I don't need Nathan to give me a job. I'm an empowered adult woman who doesn't need anyone to give her a job to feel a sense of purpose and meaning in my life.
Instead, I'll give myself a job.
I'm going to supervise the other volunteers.
Okay, volunteers. Here are my instructions:
Do what Nathan says.
Okay, that felt good.
Job well done.
I helped.
Mira said, on 4/17/2009 11:22:00 PM
Oh, Purple Clover, I realized you aren't a volunteer.
And you were trying to help get me a job.
You're a sweetheart.
But you see, it all worked out!
The First Carol said, on 4/17/2009 11:27:00 PM
okay, got it, now I'm doing it the right way! hahaha
Sarah Laurenson said, on 4/17/2009 11:43:00 PM
Susan Boyle. Yes. My heart goes pitter pat for any woman with such a beautiful voice. I could sit and listen to her sing for a very long time.
My take? Talent will out. It might take years. It might be in the weirdest place. It might be in an unexpected package. But it will out. And that raises all of our hopes.
And to watch that audience and those judges be cynical and then get totally blown away - that was priceless.
Mira said, on 4/18/2009
That discussion at Militant Writer was interesting.
I love writer advocates. Yea!
Too bad she got it reversed, though - the publishers are the ones who created this monster of a system - an incestous and narrow-visioned monopoly that mostly cares about money but manages to make very little of it anyway because of the bottleneck and lack of intelligent marketing.
Agents are a publisher out-sourcing. Reduces their workload and costs. It's paying people to read submissions on a commission basis.
Nathan, you did an outstanding job of diplomatically building bridges. I was so proud. I was like - Hey, that's Nathan! I go to his blog!
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 12:17:00 AM
Oh, I know I'm talking too much.
Last one tonight, promise. I just starting going through the links.
I'm sorry. I think the Susan Boyle thing was completely contrived. Totally planned in advance.
They set up the idea that she was laughable in their initial comments, and then pretended shock.
Also, I was really expecting someone extremely unattractive, but I thought she was a quite appealing older woman - in a feisty motherly or grandmotherly sort of way.
She'll be very successful. Brilliat marketing.
Doesn't mean the discussions around this aren't significantand important, though.
Sara J. Henry said, on 4/18/2009 12:52:00 AM
Nathan, re Susan Boyle - it's like that moment in Pretty Woman when the Julia Roberts character goes back to the snobby Rodeo Drive salesladies and thumbs her nose at them - it's the high school nerd become homecoming queen - it's the happily-ever-after ending most of us have become too jaundiced to even begin to believe in. It's seeing someone who knows she's dowdy and knows the crowd is laughing at her (and not in a nice way) and standing up to them and knocking their socks off and making at least some of them realize what jerks they were for assuming that you have to be beautiful and well-dressed to have talent.
It's magic - it's dreams coming true - and it says to everyone who has faced adversity Dare to dream.
Or something like that.
M. K. Clarke said, on 4/18/2009 1:06:00 AM
Damn, day late, dollar short. Nathan, if you need another pair of eyes, I'll pinch hit for ya. :)
~Missye
Jen C said, on 4/18/2009 1:53:00 AM
Mira said... Nathan, you did an outstanding job of diplomatically building bridges. I was so proud. I was like - Hey, that's Nathan! I go to his blog!
Someone who has been a failure for 47 years can suddenly turn a star! Moral of the story - never too late for success - never write yourself off no matter how many failures or disappointments you have faced!
Life is unpredictable, life can be magic....yes your life!
Writer from Hell said, on 4/18/2009 4:32:00 AM
Equally, never write anyone else off either...
Anonymous said, on 4/18/2009 7:08:00 AM
"While I'm very happy for her that she got her break at the perfect time, I guess I just can't escape the feeling that it's at least partly sad that anyone would be surprised.
I mean, I'm in the talent judging business. I don't look around the room and think, "Ok, where are the most attractive people? I'm sure they're the best writers!""
Aw, c'mon Nathan. Stop being disengenous. Take a look at author photos. Jonathan Franzen's, for instance. I've met the man, and boy, I can tell you, *someone* did him a big fat photo-op service!
(But why bother, right? I mean the man's got talent, right? Who cares what he looks like, right?)
Lookism is alive and well in the book industry, and you know it. Think of the cooing over Zadie Smith. Compare and contrast with the way and the reason Olivia Goldsmith died.
Ariel
Anonymous said, on 4/18/2009 7:37:00 AM
PS.
Here's a photo of Marina Lewycka posing at the Orange Prize:
I know everybody has a different take and without sounding like arguing with someone (though I am doing so), I don't think the surprise is how susan looked. I mean have u not see really ugly people(sorry) successful before? I've seen plenty.
But it is about a tragic life (never been kissed by a man - that is the definition of tragedy i think) turning around not on the basis of luck but sheer talent. Somewhere thru all her struggles and frustrations, she has held on to something.
That is heroism!
The First Carol said, on 4/18/2009 8:09:00 AM
Stats on # of requests compiled to date. Won't take much to finish out latecomers after contest closes. Q: Are we posting here or emailing accepted/rejected numbers and percentages directly to you?Of course, after the thorough vetting of the queries, and resultant illuminating education, MY PERSONAL QUERY, has been REVAMPED. Q: When I email to you, what should I put in the subject line to enable quick ID to roll it into your 'barter a query critique' pile? My email is pearlofcarol (at) gmail (dot) com.
Lastly, my compliments and sincere thank you for the overall experience and the, uh, ...nightmares. Last night I dreamt I took a curve too fast and about the time I thought, I should apply the brakes, it was too late. I hurtled off road into trees. Surprisingly, didn't feel a thing. My head rested comfortably on the air bag while a helicopter hovered focusing a bright light through the driver's window, I surmise to check if I still breathed.
Bring on the medics, the counselors, the Xanax...I'll be in recovery for awhile. But man, was it fun!
clindsay said, on 4/18/2009 8:37:00 AM
Nathan -
Did you also want a list of the commenters who requested or just the basic numbers.
C-
Cheryl Pickett said, on 4/18/2009 8:46:00 AM
In regard to your question about the Susan Boyle singer thing, I think writers and authors can learn something there.
To me it's not the fact that plain and ordinary can be extraordinary, but a reminder that that being extraordinary is what gets attention.
With the thousands of options of what people have to read, listen to or watch at any given moment, just being "good" (as good as that is) may not get you noticed.
Any "good" singer might move on in the competition, but an overwhelmingly talented person like Susan obviously gets the attention, much more in the deal. I'm sure similar things happen in the book industry on a regular basis and it's good for authors to keep that in perspective.
jimnduncan said, on 4/18/2009 9:08:00 AM
Hey, wait a minute! Colleen doesn't need that query critique. Perhaps if I set this nice bottle of scotch on her desk, she'll put her name to my query? Maybe...
Owl Sprite said, on 4/18/2009 9:21:00 AM
I'm finally done with the queries!!! Oh my that got harder and harder... the queries just got better and better.
Kudos to everyone... what a brave thing to put your queries up there for all the world to shred.
I'm really glad mine didn't get picked. I don't know how I could have stood seeing it next to all these really professional, polished queries, and all the "form rejections" it would have gotten.
Now that I see these, I think mine may be totally unpublishable. But I'm going to finish it anyway, for the discipline and practice of writing the book.
Maybe I'll self publish and inflict copies on my relatives for Christmas.
Have a great weekend, everyone. I don't envy the tabulators.
My picks: 20, 24, 26, 29, and 50.
Yes, my geekiness is showing! But I loved every one of these and can see a readership for them.
The medical imaging one I think is absolutely important and needed.
Owl Sprite said, on 4/18/2009 9:45:00 AM
PS Thought for the day...
If the hero of my novel saves a maiden in a forest and no one reads it, do they still exist?
PurpleClover said, on 4/18/2009 10:06:00 AM
Owl Sprite - like your post script. We mut think alike:
Nathan, you must put a hell of a lot of hours into your job. I hope they pay you well.
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 10:07:00 AM
Try that again. Let's focus here.
Thanks for the compliment, Nathan. I was going to be all casual, like oh, yeah, sure, agents I respect compliment me all the time, no biggie except I'm beaming too hard to make it work. Even in typing.
PurpleClover said, on 4/18/2009 10:14:00 AM
*sigh* grammar check: MUST
Ink said, on 4/18/2009 10:15:00 AM
Sigh. Am I just a downer? A pessimist? (I do love Eeyore, I admit...)
Part of me agrees entirely with what everyone is saying about Susan Boyle. She did great, she held to her dreams, she persevered... She deserves credit. She had her moment and nailed it. Hopefully we can all be as lucky when (or if) our moment comes along(this would be a good place for a "clutch shooting" metaphor...).
But... I'm sorry, not being kissed by a man is not a tragedy. It's called chastity. Sometimes, you know, it's even considered a virtue. And she's not "overwhelmingly talented". She's a very good singer, but there are a lot of very good singers. I don't mean that to be snarky or unkind in any way. She's great; but there are a number of equally great singers in every city you'll every pass through. That's just a fact.
That show played on the shallowness of our culture, the shallowness of a mass audience - and that shallowness is something they've helped create by setting a lot of people up to be humiliated (though at least people like William Hung had the cleverness and chutzpah to make it work to their own ends). They've helped build that preconception into the audience. And then they carefully orchestrated this scenario to turn the tables, preying on that shallowness to surprise everyone.
But why is it surprising? What does it say about our culture that it's so surprising and newsworthy that this woman can sing? We shouldn't be in this situation to start with, though I can't say that I'm surprised that we are.
I see it this way, there's roughly three options in this scenario -
Dumpy older woman can sing and shocks everybody: Big Sensation
Gorgeous young supermodel can sing: Next Hot Thing.
Above average and pleasant thirty year old can sing: Ho Hum.
I dislike the manipulation involved, how it plays to the lowest common denominator. I'm happy for Susan... but she should have had more opportunities before now. We shouldn't need a moment of manipulated reality for people of talent to find opportunities. I hope Susan does well, as she deserves it - and I hope it's something more meaningful than fifteen minutes of fame. It would be sad if she's famous for a week, famous for the novelty of the moment, and then everyone forgets about her and the opportunities dry up. And what of all the other equally talented people who are being denied because of the shallowness of our culture? I just find it a little sad that we are where we are: a culture that can be shocked and delighted by this (though I'm happy she sang well and her singing moved a lot of people - she will, at least, always have that).
I like writing. Our talent is isolated upon the page. It has to stand for itself. I'm sure, when it comes time for publicity photos, that it helps to be beautiful (sadly). But that's not what kicks open the doors for you. It's the words on the page, words a writer will disappear behind (unless, you know, the manuscript was written on chocolate leaves and wrapped in edible lingerie).
I hope the Susan Boyle thing opens the eyes of a lot of people and helps to change that preconception, that ridiculous assumption that beauty is somehow a measure of talent. I hope so, but I fear that a lot of people will see the Susan Boyle videos and think that it's a wonderful exception to the rule. I may be wrong, and I hope I am... but I doubt it.
I did say I was an Eeyore fan, didn't I? (though only the original A.A. Milne version. He's a pessimist... but a sarcastic and hiliarious one. The new Eeyore is usually just sort of pathetic.)
I'll shut up now.
Good words and better stories to each and everyone,
Bryan Russell
valbrussell said, on 4/18/2009 10:27:00 AM
The Susan Boyle hype reminded me of my reaction to a certain pop singer from my childhood. Three hundred years ago when I was eleven, Barry Manilow arrived in my reality via radio. You know, that old transmitter of song we used before video and big hair bands. I recall standing outside in the school yard at recess, discussing 'Mandy' and giggling with my friends about how cute Barry must be. Then, we were all dealt a crushing blow: Barry Manilow appeared on a talk show and destroyed the fantasy. I think there is a little of that in the perverse reverse going on here with Miss Susan. Do looks matter? They shouldn't but they do. ;) Can she sing? Yeah, better than your average bear but she is nowhere near a professional standard. If Susan Boyle desires longevity she requires the following: A good surgeon, a stylist, more vocal training and a drug habit. How is that for cynical? She is being used a sideshow freak and if she ups her standard of living, more power to her. Hey, Britney Spears has been a sideshow freak for some time and oh we do like to watch that stuff don't we? You know you do!
Writer from Hell said, on 4/18/2009 10:34:00 AM
ok this blogpost is not about susan boyle nevertheless..
I saw that video, I felt it was a moment in time - now it could touch you or it couldn't - no marks either way.
If her predicament is considered a virtue or chastity, that is an even bigger tragedy. Bryan Russell (ink) you deserve a break. Eeyore must learn to kiss. But that reminds me there are almost no female characters in that frienship circle - unless u count kanga. pity.
Ink said, on 4/18/2009 10:52:00 AM
Well, what's her "predicament"? I admit, I haven't followed up to find her whole history or anything, I've just seen the clips, and they don't really show anything much about her backstory.
But I just think that if you haven't found the right person and haven't been kissed... that's not a tragedy. A tragedy is your child falling into a working combine. There's nothing wrong with being single (oooh, there's another cultural foible that burns me a little... everyone has to find someone! Must date! Must marry! Can't be alone! I think more people should spend a little time alone. It's healthy. It keeps you from basing your ideas of self on the opinions of others. Being with someone for the sake of being with someone is silly, and often a recipe for disaster. There's nothing wrong with waiting - not that I'm saying you're suggesting any of this, writer from hell, but you have inadvertently pushed my rant button). If she has more of a "predicament" than this, I will cheer harder for her (and I am cheering for her). I just find it sad to see where we are, poor punctured little idealist that I am.
Not that I'm against kissing! I kiss all the time! I'm married, so I have to. ;)
My best, Bryan
Wordver: hatinge. But it's got me all wrong!
Laura said, on 4/18/2009 10:58:00 AM
The Susan Boyle story is the ultimate underdog. People love to see someone who's been overlooked and bullied (as she was throughout school, etc.) and she was even being actively laughed at before she began singing.
She turned the audience around from jeers to cheers-- we love an underdog story. She showed them all.
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 11:14:00 AM
I believe if a woman or man reaches the age of 47, and has never been kissed in today's permissive culture, that's by choice. That's even if the person is - by whatever current standards of cultural beauty - considered 'terribly ugly' and I think Susan Boyle doesn't fit that discription.
By choice, I don't mean a mature, conscious choice, necessarily. It may be a choice through low self-esteem. Or, if someone has experience abuse, they may be frightened of getting too close.
I suspect Susan has gone through a hard time in life. I am happy for her. Audience manipulation or not, this should change her life - hopefully in many wonderful ways that give her validation.
If she wants to be kissed, I'm sure she'll have plenty of options very soon.
I just hope they don't do a reality show on it. Sort of a Bachelorette - Susan picks the man who will finally kiss her.
Oh god. Awful.
Oh god. I totally patent that idea. It's mine. Or copyright it. Or whatever I need to do to make money off this. That is the idea, right?
Ian said, on 4/18/2009 11:16:00 AM
I totally agree with you Laura. Something VERY special happened in that performance. I was moved to tears. Her photo has been on the front page of all the British newspapers and, of course, she is the number one topic on the net. She is even on the news in China.
It's going to be hard for her to match that next time, but I'm rooting for her.
2readornot said, on 4/18/2009 11:33:00 AM
This was a great contest -- thanks! I found it interesting how few queries really did stand out -- but then, I'm a very picky reader too. I better understand how passion plays such a role in this business (as I think I could sell every one of the books I requested, assuming their writing lived up to the query).
And Ariel -- I think the difference is that attractiveness adds to the marketability of the author, say, on the level of having a popular blog. But that doesn't mean that anyone would be surprised that someone unattractive could write. I wouldn't look at someone unattractive, then look at their pages and be surprised in the least if it were good.
Please e-mail them to me. No need to have a special subject line, just something that makes sense.
Thanks again, everyone!
Jen P said, on 4/18/2009 2:22:00 PM
Mira - OK, then I claim her book title - 'I dreamed a dream'. Or 'I did it my way'? What's the betting she gets a deal somewhere to tell the whole story from past to present including whatever will come in the next 6 months (winning the show, Royal Variety Performance, Record deal, surely at least.) Is there a market for rags to riches stories in times of economic trouble - any takers?
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 4:28:00 PM
Jen P.
You win. Your idea is better.
But I want the movie rights.
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 4:36:00 PM
Oh. Time for my weekly promotion.
If you're reading this blog today, you should come over to my place.
We're playing a forum game called: Get The Cookie
You come in a character voice and try to get the cookie.
So far, that poor cookie has been politely asked for, beamed up, locked up, stolen, made to feel terribly guilty, seduced, threatened, manipulated and traded for. There have been mentions of fairy dust and memory wipes.
Think you can top that?
Best thing about the site is it can be completely anonymous, if you want.
No one has to know you're there. Sneak in, get the cookie, sneak out.
I love your Come in Character blog. I'm writing like crazy today, determined to finish my novel in nine more days. I'm on a roll; think I'm gonna make it. But...cookie? You said cookie? I'm so into that. I'll send some of my characters over there later today. Cookie? Oh, they so want that cookie.
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 5:01:00 PM
Marilyn,
I've missed you! I wondered where you got to.
Oh. So you've been writing. Hmmm. Is finishing your novel more important than coming to my blog?
Wow. This is a hard one.
I'll have to think about this.
I will say, that's amazing that you're almost done with your new novel!!!
Kudos, kudos, many kudos to you!
Mira said, on 4/18/2009 5:02:00 PM
And yes, you deserve a cookie break.
Maybe even a real one. Nine days. Wow. Gotta keep your strength up.
Central Content Publisher said, on 4/18/2009 5:27:00 PM
Susan Boyle Explained
Martin Amis called writing a war against cliche. Apparently, the same is true of performance.
Jen C said, on 4/18/2009 7:15:00 PM
It's the words on the page, words a writer will disappear behind (unless, you know, the manuscript was written on chocolate leaves and wrapped in edible lingerie).
I'm so stealing this idea when I start querying. Nathan, watch your letterbox...
Kristi said, on 4/18/2009 9:04:00 PM
The links this week have been the best ever. The agent interviews and tips for new writers were priceless and I have them bookmarked. Thanks so much, Nathan!
Writer from Hell said, on 4/18/2009 10:07:00 PM
Susan Boyle was uncomely was standing was shifting in uncomeliness and when she started singing audience was actually surprised and wowed by the comeliness of her voice.
'nuff said. really.
'Writers mistakes' was the best link in the blogpost. Though I actually never ever make those mistakes. Actually really!
jil said, on 4/18/2009 11:34:00 PM
For me,Susan Boyle was beautiful when she sang; such grace and dignity. Some "beautiful" people become less and less attractive the more you see them. Some unattractive people become more and more beautiful. We all love the beast in the fairy tale. We learned from stories when we were children, perhaps some will learn from this one as adults.
After all. Pavorotti was not so glamorous off stage.
Anyone who makes me cry from their first note must be very beautiful!!
Annie Reynolds said, on 4/18/2009 11:51:00 PM
Msay be too late, but i would be HAPPY TO HELP!!! sign me up.
Annie Reynolds said, on 4/18/2009 11:55:00 PM
Ok lets try that again with out the typos so you know i can speak english instead of gobildigook. YES PLEASE SIGN ME UP . I would love to help out.
I found Susan Boyle inspirational not because of her talent and not because of her age and appearance, but because she strutted onto that stage and sang her heart out fully aware of of the jeers and eyerolling.
I love her because she's so much like me... ordinary and real. So I identify with her situation, an am awed by her courage. I could never walk out there knowing that kind of reception was waiting for me.
Now that I think of it, it's the same thing I want in books: a character I can identify with doing the things I secretly wish I could do.
Susan would be lovely to me even if she couldn't sing well. =)
Nixy Valentine said, on 4/19/2009 5:50:00 AM
Oh, and I forgot to add this: about the blogger who is convinced you're responsible for the downfall of literature...
Nathan, my dear, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
I appreciate the desire to reply when someone is publicly negative about you, but really, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
Trust me. ♥ They go away faster when they don't get the attention they so desperately crave.
Anonymous said, on 4/19/2009 6:07:00 AM
The "ten mistakes" article was mostly straw-man crap. The person couldn't even format paras properly.
Writer from Hell said, on 4/19/2009 7:42:00 AM
anon 4:07 am. - right above.
yea I went back and checked - u r bang on. Why do I get impressed so easily?
Writer from Hell said, on 4/19/2009 7:46:00 AM
But some good points in there actually!! absolutely.
Mira said, on 4/19/2009 9:38:00 AM
Oh, I overlooked this - sorry I was distracted.
Terry D. Congratulations!! Not one, but two books deals.
Wow. Outstanding! Best of luck to you!
terryd said, on 4/19/2009 1:05:00 PM
Thanks for the mention, Nathan and fine people! The first book will be published in summer 2010.
Wonder how many rejections Susan Boyle received.
jimnduncan said, on 4/19/2009 2:03:00 PM
That was a cool interview at Poets and Writers. Lots of good info for folks to peruse. Certainly recommend it for those who haven't looked at it yet. If you have read it Nathan, I'm curious if your take is pretty similar to theirs. They seemed to all be literary and non-fiction agents (at least that's all they spoke of), so I'm curious if anything is different for agents who rep genre fiction.
One thing they spoke of, and I'm not sure how tongue-in-cheek it was or if they were serious, but they spoke about Revolutionary Road and how nice it was to see such a bleak book hit the best seller list (tied into how movies can make a nothing book into something). They said it was cool to read depressing books. Is this seriously how lit fiction is looked at? The bleaker the better? Is there some weird, unwritten rule in writing that serious, artistic writing has to delve into the darkness of the human psyche and society? I don't read much literary fiction because of this perception. I'll admit as much.
This might make for an interesting post sometime, because I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders about this.
Mira said, on 4/19/2009 2:53:00 PM
terryd - that's a really good point about Susan Boyle.
You should let us know when they're out. You must be so excited.
Anonymous said, on 4/19/2009 3:01:00 PM
Too bad Hillary Clinton couldn't sing like Susan Boyle during the last democratic primary.
mythicagirl said, on 4/19/2009 3:21:00 PM
Susan Boyle was a woman many had overlooked and underestimated. Though she'd sung all her life, for whatever reason she never got far with her dream. However from what I've read she's now fulfilling a promise to her mother. Mom (and Susan's friends) knew how talented she was. After her mother died, Susan decided to go for her dream with a one in a million shot at success, because reality shows can be brutal.
It's a feel good, inspirational story that shows its never too late to go for your dreams.
I'm reminded of the baseball player Satchel Page, who went from the Negro leagues in his 40's to success in Major league baseball. I believe his quote was "Age is a question of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter."
Another example is Elizabeth Cotton, a self taught blues guitarist who won a grammy when she was in her 70's, after going back to doing what she loved.
Annalee said, on 4/19/2009 8:11:00 PM
Stats for 21-25 have been emailed. Thanks for running this!
EmilyR said, on 4/19/2009 8:38:00 PM
Stats for #36-40 sent this a.m. Thanks for the great contest!
Wanda B. Ontheshelves said, on 4/19/2009 8:50:00 PM
I emailed my stats for #41-45 today too! (Sunday)
Anonymous said, on 4/20/2009 2:17:00 AM
Nathan Bransford said... "Look at me being all cynical. I guess I just thought 1) the judges seemed in on it even if they feigned surprise and"
No, Nathan, you were right. Simon knew. The way these shows are put together, they know what they're getting. And this one - the unassuming older lady with the killer voice - was not something to be kept under wraps. It was brilliant theater.
My "take" from the Susan Boyle video was heartening, in more ways than one.
First, of course, the fact that she sang beautifully...even though she didn't have a "beautiful" appearance. But she had a radiant smile all the way through, and by the time she was done, quite honestly, who didn't think the woman was beautiful in all the ways that counted? :-)
But the second impression I got, and the one I think is more to the point, is what happened to the audience...and all of us who watched along with it, cheered and wept and fist-pumped on her behalf.
"Reality" shows are set up to cater to the worst in us--let's face it, many of us watch these things for the same reason we watch car racing: for the wrecks. They're set up to allow us to watch other people being taken apart...which, while it can be a quick shot of emotional adrenaline, is like any other sinister drug: it doesn't satisfy for long.
On the other hand, how quickly that snotty veneer many of us carry around with us nowadays can be broken through by someone who simply is herself, genuine and unapologetic about it--and that's what Susan did. And that breakthrough releases "good" adrenaline, positive adrenaline. And that's why that image, of that saucy woman and her beautiful voice (and her oh-so-polite revenge!) has stayed with us.
Think about it. Lots of these "shock the world" performances we've seen of late on YouTube are not really all that shocking, and they wouldn't be all that surprising, if we weren't already in the nasty, artificial framework of "cool" and "hip" and sarcastic that reality shows create in us and baptize as healthy. But in our hearts, I truly believe, we WANT people to succeed. We WANT to be "surprised" by someone who's wonderful. We WANT, in a way, not to see the "train wreck" contestant--but to see the reality show's artificial snobbism collapse upon itself. When it does, as in this instance and many others, we cheer and we weep not because this is such an unbelievable thing...but because, in the end, it confirms our true, core, HUMAN belief in, and the desire to wish well to, each other. It negates the little minds and colossal egos that take pleasure in humiliating other people, and it is "one in the eye" for all those people who ever put any of us down and destroyed any of our dreams.
Maybe the "take away" from this isn't an indictment of how "shallow" we are to think that someone who's not glamorous can sound so beautiful. Maybe the "take away" actually is that, Yes, we DO cheer for the underdog and mean it. Yes, we DO rejoice when she succeeds. And yes, that means that in the end, it's really "never too late" for any of us until we stop breathing.
And that's worth weeping a few tears of joy over, no matter what your age.
No, Nathan, you were right. Simon knew. The way these shows are put together, they know what they're getting. And this one - the unassuming older lady with the killer voice - was not something to be kept under wraps. It was brilliant theater.
The audience was surprised.
Simon is the creator of the show.The contestants in these shows usually go through a first round of auditions that we don't see on TV, and after that they send the best and the worst of them through to the televised auditions.
The first round isn't with the TV judges, so I'm not sure that they knew, but SOMEONE knew. The non-Simon male judge sure looked genuinely surprised. As for Simon, I think that's about as animated as he gets!
There's a 'lemonade stand award' doing the rounds at the moment. I have no idea if this leads to anything, but as it for great attitude I have nominated you.
Hope it leads to more recognition for your work in the blogsphere.
sworsess said, on 4/20/2009 12:09:00 PM
Re: Susan Boyle: Singing is a performance art, and performance requires self-awareness, and the way she presented herself before she started singing showed anything but self-awareness.
I agree with you there. I think her personal awkwardness followed by great poise when she was singing was what made it so surprising, not her attractiveness.
Nathan, just in case you haven't gotten enough on Susan Boyle, here is a wonderful blog article about why her story resonates so strongly with us. It's on Murderati.com. Alas, I didn't write it:
1) She has self-confidence. Unlike Paul Potts and other hard-luck-with-a-great-hidden-talent-performers she didn't shuffle on stage and stand like a lump.
2) She has personality to spare. She sassed back at the judges and the audience. She knew exactly what they thought of her and thumbed her nose at them.
3) Timing and Good Selection. She picked the perfect song at the perfect time. (everybody's dreams have taken a hit in the last couple of years.) 3a)I Dreamed a Dream is technically difficult and she nailed it. 3b) the song could have been written for her specifically. 3c) the irony of the long's lyrics being sung in a talent contest by a very talented person who is hoping for a new beginning to an old dream. 3d) Right now, happy-ever-after stories are in high demand. Especially Real Life (tm) ones.
4) Matter of factness. She started to leave the stage without waiting to be officially judged. It gave me the impression she didn't care if they approved or not. She knew she could sing and, now, so did they.
5) She blows kisses. Quaint, sure. Old fashioned, you betcha. Some might even say it's hokey. However, she makes it a genuine gesture of "I love that you love how I sing." It's like saying "you're welcome" to the applause's "thank you." Good manners are always attractive.
6) Self-deprecation. Nobody likes an ego-maniac, and despite all the attention, she's not pandering for more.
Susan Boyle's story has been compared to Rocky Balboa's story, Shrek's story and so on. Yes, to a certain degree it is.
I think Susan Boyle is a fairy tale with a twist. She's Cinderella sans godmother crossed with the Ugly Duckling that never made swanhood. That makes it easy for 95% of the world to identify with her.
I'm a bit taken by the implications about Query 39. I liked the query myself, but felt that this kind of story has been done to death. A mystery writer whose novels serve the basis of a killer's crimes? Basic Instinct, anyone? Then there was another, more recent film in which the writer was teaching in a master's program... It'll come to me. What's the implication here? Are novelists-whose-works-serve-as-killer's-blueprints novels like vampire novels?
On the Susan Boyle note, here's my take. A lady comes out and looks and acts in a way for people to prejudge her as an idiot. She opens her mouth and unexpectedly is fantastic. People are dropping their jaws in amazment...She is a hit due to the strange look and appearance. If she had been "a looker" nobody would have been surprised and she wouldn't be as wildly popular now.
(Note to self)...Does this mean a horrible query and a great book will get you noticed?...No. Only on television shows can this be the case... However, the unexpected does get a second glance in my opinion.
I went away for a few days...and I come back to my hook being quoted in the Guardian's blog. (Query #15 ~ "for astrophysicist Allie, falling in love is as easy as identifying the planet Venus".) How very cool is that? Thanks for the link, Nathan! I almost missed my brush with literary fame.
The contest was a great experience. (Even though I did get rejected around 300 times in a week's time! Wowzers!) I really appreciate those that paused to give me feedback on my query. It was much appreciated and I've already begun incorporating suggestions.
A big thank you to you, Nathan. I admire the fact that you took this challenge upon yourself. It was an honor to be a part of the 'contest'.
First up, an update on the Be An Agent for a Day contest. Thank you so much to the hundreds and hundreds (and hundreds) of you who have volunteered your query. When I started I thought, "I sure hope I can get 50!" That was misguided.
I'm going to finish up automating the 50 lucky queries over the weekend, and I'll set a "Tips and Reminders" post to go live at 7:45 AM Pacific time Monday morning. The queries will start posting automatically starting at 8:00 AM. I'm definitely excited to see how this will go!
Meanwhile, there was a week in publishing, and I was following it even when I was in Tulsa. Publishing: I'm watching you.
Pretty big news from HarperCollins, who will be publishing two posthumous Michael Crichton novels. The first is about pirates, which sounds like a pretty awesome combo, and then the second is going to be one that's finished by another author. Hmmm...
In grammar news, John UpChurch wants to make sure you know your en dashes from your hyphens. That sounded dirty.
My esteemed and wonderful colleague Ginger Clark was interviewed by her client Gretchen McNeil about her response to AgentFail, including why it's not as easy as one might think to set up automated responses to queries. Allow me to add my own four cents: 1) separate e-mail addresses are a pain, 2) you don't want editors and your clients getting annoying auto-replies when they accidentally trigger the keywords, 3) auto-replies are hardly fool proof, 4) it's all up to the agent anyway. There. You almost have a nickel.
Agent Rachelle Gardner has been bringing it with the awesome blogs lately, and she has an excellent post this week about what your queries say about you. We agents read a lot between the lines.
I forgot to put this in last week's TWIP, but on April Fool's Day Kassia Kroszer linked to some (fake) book smell products and said,"enough with the smell of books, already!" And you just know I'm with her. No one gets into a car and says, "Gee, I sure wish this car smelled like a horse."
In publishing terminology news, The Book Publicity Blog explains the difference between advertising and publicity. The primer: advertising = bought. Publicity = exchanged.
And finally, you know those articles about self-publishing that make it sound like self-publishing is the easiest way to riches since being born an oil heiress? Well, Victoria Strauss has a hilarious breakdown of the way these articles are always written. Take a few success stories, subtract crucial details, and add a dash of "the publishing world will never be the same" and you have yourself an article!
Have a great weekend!
85 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 4/13/2009
When I first learned the difference between a hyphen and an en-dash, it was a moment of pure enlightenment.
Augh, that self-publishing article! When I first read it on CNN, I wanted to bash my head against something (but was working the reference desk, where such action would be frowned upon) for making it sound like some easy scheme for fame and fortune. They never point out that the success of these self-pubbed books comes when the author is picked up by a major publisher, which is extremely rare. Urgh.
And thank you for pointing out the self-publishing article and response on the Writers Beware Blog (which I'll be following now). I had several friends forward me that article. They were all excited about it and thought I should self publish. Hah! Anyway, thanks for the info.
Anonymous said, on 4/9/2009 7:07:00 PM
SO IS IT BETTER TO SAVE MONEY ON THE AGENT AND JUST HIRE A PR FIRM?! I MEAN IF YOU CAN SELL BOOKS AND JUST NEED TO PUBLICIZE THEM,...WHY NOT?!! THEN AFTER YOU SELL BUTTASTIC MILLIONS, THE AGENTS COME TO YOU, RIGHTY? HOW CAN THIS GO WRONG? OTHER THAN THE BOOK SUCKS AND NO ONE WANTS IT NO MATTER WHAT.
re: you response to ALL CAPS anon--LOL! Thanks for you sense of humor, Nathan! I enjoy it so very much! It appears quite necessary in your line of work.
Doh, thanks for correcting me, arcady. *grin* Living in Kansas for as long as I have (just moved to St. Louis), I get lost in the sticks and don't really know where the big cities begin. >.>
1. Pirates vs Ninjas on an island of dinosaurs would be beyond cool. Damn, I'm copyrighting that idea!!!
2. Emm Dash and Hi Fenn were two notorious adult film stars in Finland in the 1970s. Their films featured way less dialogue than any others. Though none had titles as naughty sounding as "Upchurch."
3. Three words: Robot rejection writer. The inventor of that will have the undying love of agents worldwide.
4. I believe my queries have the necessary air of desperation to them.
5. Watch someone will now try to sell the smell.
6. What about publicity brought about by stuff that's exchanged?
7. Nice to see the French are consistent.
8. Great, I'm going to write a bunch and sell them in order finance my self-publishing venture, and then it's riches, glorious, glorious riches! And I'll be parading around with all the other billionaire authors on a sedan chair of gold carried by recently laid off publishing executives. Bwah-hah-hah!!!
Pretty big news from HarperCollins, who will be publishing two posthumous Michael Crichton novels. The first is about pirates, which sounds like a pretty awesome combo, and then the second is going to be one that's finished by another author. Hmmm...
That's amazing news for HC, good news(in that I assume there was a bidding war) for his family but sad, in that the second manuscript will not be his, but his legacy. I'm not saying that who they hire (the person will be exceptional obviously) will not be an excellent author, but if it is a successful novel, the "ghost writer" will not be acknowledged in the way they should, Michael will be remembered in a way he shouldn't. Ah, every once in a while I forget this is all just business:)
Great to have you back - I was missing the daily dose.
I so beg to disagree with what many agents like Ms Gardener have to say. When a new writer says this will be a great book - it means he is just passionate - and did you say he is unrealistic? Sure - the catch phrase is 'new writer'. Yes if a many times over failed author writes that to you, that is unrealistic expectations.
The agents' 'don't list' is a bit tiring. Makes a noob feel like you are walking on eggs. I have come across many agents and publishers whose websites are inspiring - a lot of them actually say 'think big'. They talk about some ideology, one guy has gone to great lengths that he is in business to protect the First ammendment. I respect that. It shows a sense of purpose and when you have that, you have less of an ego too; many agents who complain about not wanting to work with egoistic authors, I'm afraid may themselves have a high degree of egotism (what Peter assumes about Paul is more true of Peter than Paul.. that sort of a thing).
I just worry many agents are over sensitive and wanting to create clones out of writers. Why? Because you can afford to be - simply coz the slush pile is like a haystack and but a needle you are going to pick out of it.
Sorry this is not to get you back in the angry mood again - just a feedback.
Thanks again! As usual you are keeping us informed!
I especially liked the hyphen article. I'm an avid hyphenator. So I'll be looking forward to the updates. Maybe tips on how to work more in. ;) hehe. (kidding)
Just added Rachelle's blog to my "Blogs Me Likey" list. :)
This is also something I'm going to post on more in depth in the coming weeks. I know it seems like agents are just creating rules and hoops out of thin air. But it's not about that. In this case, it's just that so very few of the writers who are really good come out and say they're really good in a query.
So sure -- you might find a really talented writer who brags. But for every one good one who brags there are 99 who say the same thing and who aren't good.
I was talking with one of the agents who went to Tulsa with me, and at this point we both felt like we can better tell whether someone has a manuscript we want to read by how they carry themselves rather than what they're actually pitching. You can just tell after a while.
So it's not that we're creating more rules. It's just that we see certain qualities time after time among the good writers, and while they don't apply 100% of the time, we're just trying to point them out.
As far as auto-responses go, I don't really care whether agents do them -- I don't even care very strongly about the "no response means no" policy, though I think it would be courteous for such agents to give a rule-of-thumb as to how long it takes them to get out partial requests so the querying writer can have a sense of finality. As far as I'm concerned, anything that agents do to preserve their time and focus on existing clients is fine by me, since I hope to be a client for much longer than I have to be a prospective client.
But, if you are going to send an auto-response, wouldn't it make sense to have it triggered by some made-up word in the subject line, like say "XXQueryXX"? The agent says if you want an autoresponse, put that in your subject line. That way, no one who isn't querying will get an autoresponse, anyone who does their research will get rewarded, and as an added bonus, the agent knows just by reading the subject lines of the queries which writers have performed a modicum of research.
You are right actuallly. Bragging doesn't sell anywhere, leave alone in this super competitive world of writing... or rather publishing.
But sometimes agents do get carried away (though you are never in this territory) and in making a point sound overjudgmental and a little belittling to the writers. That feels not too good to be a writer.
Though I must admit, this is the only place where agents have spelt it out in absolute black and white what are the specific dos and don'ts and that is a very helpful thing. In most industries, we have to figure out the protocols quite by ourselves.
WRT the auto-responding issue - one possible solution is to set up an entirely separate account (say, [email protected]) and keep all the queries there. With an auto-response.
Of course, some people wouldn't pay attention (Colleen Lindsay had 400+ queries in the past three weeks *in spite of being on query holiday* - I can't imagine how many she receives when she isn't!) and others would be reading outdated information and send to the main address anyway. But it would avoid some of the main problems you point out.
As for stupid articles about self-publishing - I'll file those along with a) stories about the growing number of internet sources, all of which involve 'researching from home while wearing pajamas' and b) stories about knitting groups, all of which involve 'knitting's not just for grandmothers anymore!'
Anonymous said, on 4/10/2009 7:34:00 AM
I just can't understand why an agent would spend any time or brain cells on the self-publishing industry if it's so sub-standard and stupid. Seems to me if self-published novels were so lousy, people in regular publication wouldn't care less.
Self-published novels would be overflowing garbage cans on the other side of the street hardly worthy of notice.
Thank you for the link to Victoria Strauss' blog. Genius article of the day.
Carrie said, on 4/10/2009 8:25:00 AM
I'm going to give a shout-out to the self-publishing companies for one reason that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet: you can get a draft of your book printed for CHEAP. As in, cheaper than Staples & Kinko's.
I've submitted my novel to my chosen group of trustworthy first readers for comments, and as I was looking at ways to save money on printing costs, I realized that -- even with shipping! -- it is noticeably less expensive to get the bound copies. A friend is trying to establish if there's a youth market for her book, and thanks to these companies she can give "real books" to kids for feedback, which is certainly going to be more successful than if she'd tried to get children to read a traditionally-formatted manuscript.
Obviously my friend and I are planning to submit properly-formatted unbound pages to agents/others in the industry when the time comes, but it's nice to know that my mom can get a "real book" copy of my draft in the meantime, for about 1/2 the cost.
Yoda said, on 4/10/2009 8:35:00 AM
...hundreds and hundreds (and hundreds) of you who have volunteered your query...
Mmmm-hmm! Seen the Dark Side of the Internet, Nathan has.
Many lurking are. Always prepared a Jedi should be!
Anonymous said, on 4/10/2009 8:39:00 AM
I was going to protest about the horse smell, but I see several people beat me to it. It the horse pee smell I hate.
Glad your back, Nathan.
Writing Mom said, on 4/10/2009 8:45:00 AM
In Rachelle Gardner's post, she mentions that some authors might be upset with on receiving "a nice little 25k advance with a medium sized publisher... "
Oh my GOD!!! I am seriously having palpitations right now.
I had no idea you could get as much as $25K for a book, even with a huge publisher. I had heard somewhere that the average income for writers was $3K per year. So I never even dreamed that someone could get that much just for an advance, unless they were well-established.
I think I'm going to faint. I'm not kidding. I... I... I.... aye yi yi!
Infact I thought I might get $1000 as advance and they may ask for it back when the book is published..
Writing Mom said, on 4/10/2009 8:51:00 AM
Carrie, thanks so much for your comment. I had no idea self-pub was that inexpensive. What you are talking about is exactly my problem - nobody I know has time to sit with the computer for hours on end to read my manuscript, but if they had a book they could hold and carry around with them, it would be so much easier.
I had thought of trying to do a few copies at Staples, but then the mailing costs for out-of-state friends would also be an issue. I was trying to think of ways to reduce the bulk, like using a two-sided, single spaced format.
But now there is another option I will seriously look into.
Good to have you back, even if for a day. Missed the stimulating discussions this week.
In terms of the self-publishing article, it didn't really address the most important aspect of self-publishing - e-books. I don't think self-publishing hard paper copies is the future of publishing, but with e-books, the whole system will change. That's what I think anyway.
In other articles here, this is what I saw in terms of backlash from agentfail: The start of a subtle message that writers who are too outspoken, confident and not 'modest' enough won't be represented.
Isn't that the old: Don't say what you really think or you'll be blacklisted?
I would also really appreciate an article from an agent that didn't just reiterate their side of things, but actually addressed the legitimate concerns that were raised in agentfail. The closest one that I've seen is Janet Reid's, and I commend her for it.
Thank you for all the clarity on the Query Competition. Unfortunately, much as I cleared my calendar to be able to participate, I have just received some bad family news and so cannot commit to anything as may have to fly home at moment's notice.
Will be watching from the sidelines, cheering everyone on.
You know, it's a good thing I have nothing to lose, since I've only written a page and a half.
Besides, if I ever get around to writing something, it will be so unbelievably fantastic, brilliant, stunning, intelligent, clever, super-fantastic and marketable, that people won't care that I'm 'difficult'.
Um, does bragging about things that you haven't even written yet count?
About the ghost-written Crichton novel, I hope they're careful. Style is impossible to mimic, but in Crichton's case it's more about plot anyway, I guess.
And I'm with those in awe of $25k advances. That would feel like all the money in the world. Writers really need to listen to what Rachel is saying, though. No one lands the mate of their dreams by unrolling a scroll of how great they are. Classic sales techniques warn you away from pushing, because of exactly what she said, "people push back". Believe in what you're doing, but take the sale away a little. Make them come for it. It's how the dance goes.
Lastly, I really don't see the point in a auto-reply, other than maybe to say you've received their query. If agents simply say, "We'll get back to you within a few days if we see a fit or not at all", that really should be enough. If an agent wants to send something more personalized, they can at their discretion.
On that note, I'd like to report that an agent did exactly that to me last week. She had nice things to say about my full, but was honest that she didn't know how to sell it. I would have relished the task of offering some ideas, but that's not how it works. Sure, I had to tag her with an email almost two months after I sent it to get that response, but the little feedback she provided sent me in what will hopefully be a better direction.
Not weighing in on responses or auto-responses. If you wanted to utilize auto-response without aggravating your other correspondents, here are some steps that you could take (though it relies on people actually paying attention to your submission standards so it is not fool proof).
Since you ask for queries by email, add to your standards that the subject line start with **QUERY**. If you are using Outlook (which I will assume that you do), you can then create a New Query folder and apply a filter for the word "**QUERY**" in the email subject to be routed directly to that folder. Be sure to exclude responses from the filter. You can also establish a macro that any emails send to that folder receive an autoreply, thus replying to any new query you receive while avoiding replies to other colleagues or any continuing conversation to that query.
Some people order every magazine going, from Reader's Digest to Popular Mechanics. Why? Because it makes them feel as if they have friends in the world who will write to them. Sneer. What better way to make cranky writers forget queryangentfailidiocy than to invite hungry writers to your publishing laden table for a few leftovers. It reminds me of the seventies and Welcome Back Kotter. Remember Arnold Horshack, his ass dancing in his seat with his hand held high: OOH OOH! Mr. Kotter, Ask me!!! Can you imagine this level of idolatry from Margaret Atwood or Salman Rushdie? Good god this is beginning to look like cattle call for desperate and aging B movie actors. I also get a decidedly cult like feeling here.
Just goes to show you, people will follow anyone with a silver tongue. Unfortunately, the tongue in question here is more of a nickle plated than silver.
Well, I disagree - I think Nathan's purpose is to ask writers to empathisize more with the position that agents are in. (Please feel free to rewrite that sentence into some sembalance of good grammer. I would do it myself, but I have no conception of good grammer. Obviously.)
I don't think it's a bribe to make writers forget anything.
I also don't like anyone giving Nathan a hard time but me.
Not that that should stop anyone. I'm just saying.
It's interesting how you interpret this. I'm not sure I see the logic of how writers are demeaning themselves by a supposed scrabbling for scraps. It's a simple volunteer contest, with, I think, a learning opportunity at its core. That's why a lot of writers are interested, because having a chance to see a query slushpile is quite probably informative. Partly idle curiosity, perhaps, to see what life is like on the other side of the slushy fence, but mostly an active curiosity driven by good ol' fashioned self interest (and I don't say that as a bad thing).
Critique is helpful, and often necessary - both giving it and receiving it. Here is an opportunity for both. Everyone has a chance to critique, to evaluate, to see what works and what doesn't - both for readers and in terms of publishability. And for the happy 50 chosen there is also a chance to receive helpful feedback. When the real query submissions come around they'll be the better for it.
I just don't see how this basic dynamic connects to your assessment of the situation. Idolatry? How so? I think a lot of writers see opportunity - and an opportunity framed in an entertaining contest (who doesn't like winning free stuff?) and held in what is generally a safe venue.
While I probably won't be playing myself, I'll likely look on. I think there's value in doing so, and I'm guessing there are a lot of writers who see it the same way - and would see it so regardless of the source or the timing of the event.
Just my two round and shiny bits of copper.
My best, Bryan Russell
p.s. I must say, though, that your name is simply stunning. I automatically think of you as intelligent and attractive... ;)
So, valbrussel, is jumping onto an agent's blog to whisper some thinly veiled inner torment the way forward, or should we just tuck away some bitter about Twitter poetry on our blog? ;)
I wouldn't confuse genial blog comments as evidence of satisfaction. This is a place to learn. Why not try that instead?
Well, this isn't feeding the troll (at least I think not), but the reason I am paying attention to the contest is to hopefully learn some things about what makes a good query. Plus, if mine is one of the onces chosen, I get a free critique.
Plus, it's definitely entertainment! Like a reality show for writers.
bukash - i always seem to come after you but you make me laugh each time!
As for valbrussel (why do i keep wanting to type valkyrie)...anyhoo! I think since the queries we (our Bransford Community not to be confused with the Stepford community though it has it's similarities) tend to see posted on agent blogs always are the worst of the worst or the best of the best, we are jumping at the opportunity to see a wider variety of in the middle (*cough* mediocre). The advice could be invaluable to this plane of queries.
If we are all authors and aspiring writers that have an edge on society (because of our VON-derful agent-bloggers great writerly advice) then we might actually see some queries that are on our same playing field. OR we may get a shock into reality.
Something tells me it will be an eye opener. Can't wait! Counting down the minutes!
GOOD news in publishing this week. I was so expecting you to mention this! Romance novel sales are UP. They were listed on U.S. News' "10 Winners in the Recession." Maybe I'm the only one excited about it, since romance is one of the things I write? Anyway, here's the excerpt if anyone's interested:
But the most intriguing entry was the third item on U.S. News' list: bodice-ripper novels. Harlequin, still the biggest name in serial romances, saw a $3 million gain, year to year, in North American sales in the fourth quarter of 2008. (By contrast, book sales in the general marketplace are down slightly.)
It's so easy to poke fun at contemporary romance novels that there's really no sport in it. The plots, by definition, are formulaic; the prose manages to be at once overwrought and underdeveloped; the covers, well, they're where that famous, flaxen-haired slab of manhood named Fabio got his start. But romances have long dominated sales of mass-market paperbacks (which, in turn, dominate sales of books in general).
It's not exactly a surprise that the romance novel business would be pretty recession-proof; as bad as things get, a lot of people – OK, mostly women – can still afford a $5 paperback.
But, in parsing the titles listed on Harlequin's Web site, it struck me that the real reason serial romances are thriving is not just because they're the ultimate escape fantasies but because, in their own way, they are that Holy Grail of marketing and business – they offer something for everyone.
Among Harlequin's 10 imprints are dozens of categories and sub-categories, including medical romance, Christian romance, paranormal romance, suspense romance and even NASCAR romance (titles include Checkered Past and Black Flag, White Lies). Unexpected pregnancy scenarios are popular across categories, as are single-mother situations. I even saw one book about an unwed pregnant woman courted by a man who isn't the father of her baby but wants to be. He also happens to be super hot.
See, you forgot about the economy for a second there, didn't you?
If there's anyone who's predisposed to being snobby about this genre, it's me. But even I can understand the impulse: Isn't "the quest for true love" really just code for something else, namely the search for a sense of safety – financial and otherwise – in a precarious world?
You don't have to like romance novels to know what uncertainty feels like. All you have to do is follow the financial news. In fact, given that many Americans are feeling as distrustful of the bank bailout and the economic stimulus package as Harlequin heroines feel about their suitors, perhaps the term "escape fantasy" is a misnomer.
Maybe these books are recession-proof not because they offer an alternative to uncertainty but because they reflect it back at us – with a lot of sex thrown in (and a happy ending).
Oh, and No. 4 on the recession winners list? Condoms. Maybe Harlequin should ease up on those unexpected-pregnancy fantasies
Mira, I absolutely adore that you disagree with me! :)
Bryan Russell, The name does say it all doesn't it? ;)
Scott, Indeed. Learning is everything and my twitter is actually sweet not bitter and it appears you've been contaminated by my very bad verse. Tisk tisk, you were curious and looked at my very LOUD blog. :o I also never whisper because it's exceptionally rude. Did I jump? No, I'm certain I pounced.
PurpleClover, You witty devil you. ;) Valkyrie indeed.
Nathan, thanks for the link, and here I thought I was the only one who cared about hyphens and en dashes. I may still be, but at least, I've dragged others with me now.
Oh, and to JohnO, HA and touché, but I am not to blame for the odd spelling. I'm also not to blame for the weird dichotomy of an editor with a funky spelling.
Anonymous said, on 4/10/2009 8:13:00 PM
you guys are weird.
Anonymous said, on 4/10/2009 8:15:00 PM
Q's are so easy! Why all the stress? OK, the pitch part is hard, but the rest is just a simple business letter like you learned in junior high school.
I can't help but think that all these people in here who need so much help with their letters probably need a lot more help with their actual books.
The Cult of Bransford has a certain ring to it, doesn't it? I'm going to stop washing my hair and call myself Sunshine. Just don't drink the orange cordial until I tell you all to, okay?
Word Veri: Wonka. Now I'm craving chocolate, thanks a lot!
Anonymous said, on 4/11/2009 3:18:00 AM
Ok, after the surrender (again) of the French, you have a permanent fan... even if you keep rejecting me.
Stephanie, I'm not surprised by the Romance genre's gains during the recession. Romance is all about Hope and Affirmation. Love is the primary motivation behind Courage. We all need that during difficult times and a Romance novel is a fun place to find that kind of encouragement. Sure, there's some sub-standard stuff, just like in all genres. However, there's a lot of good stuff too. ;)
The romance fans I know will read no matter what. They are die-hard fans. They go through two or three paperbacks a week. Several women at work swap them. No, we haven't gotten a raise in three years and money's tight but they still are out there, every day, reading their romance novels on their lunch breaks. And writing romance is a lot harder than people think. I've found it much easier to free-flow and write what I want than to try to fit into the tight constraints of what Harlequin and Silhouette want.
Q's are so easy! Why all the stress? OK, the pitch part is hard, but the rest is just a simple business letter like you learned in junior high school.
I can't help but think that all these people in here who need so much help with their letters probably need a lot more help with their actual books.
Uh, yeah, well... it's the pitch part that everyone struggles with!
And writing a query is totally different from writing a book. I have a fantasy novel with a very complex plot that I have rewritten the query for at least 30 times trying to nail down the key things someone would need to know while keeping it brief enough.
So, I'll take all the help I can get. And I don't think that's any reflection at all on my writing.
How many books have you successfully sold, by the way? Just curious.
I am hosting a tea at Ms. Mira's blog. I would love if you would join us. There are many delicious treats and tea to drink. We are having polite conversation, and are currently discussing the weather and movies.
Please do join us if you would like, dears.
Here is my address:
http://comeincharacter.blogspot.com/ I will try a special way:
About queries - it seems to me every agent wants something different - each speaker is adament about how they should be written, and each different from the other. One says always have the names of your characters - the next says never write the names of your characters etc. etc. Now if I were an agent, any query which came in smelling of horses would be accepted immediately. Is there any better smell? Well, new mown hay comes close. By the way, my character is over having tea with Mrs. Fettleston. I sure hope she pops some treats for me into her bag, I'm hungry!
I just want to say that I think this Agent for a Day idea is genius...love the way you will format the day and I'm assuming (and hoping) that the contest will be on your public blog so all can see? I am very much looking forward to it Nathan!
Regarding Rachelle Gardner’s post on queries, it’s not only a problem of a writer having high expectations; but it is also the writer’s lack of respect for an experienced professional in publishing. When writers use the words “Nobel Prize” and “blockbuster bestseller” in a query, it gives the impression that they think they know more about publishing than the agent. Lovely way to begin.
"Take a few success stories, subtract crucial details, and add a dash of 'the publishing world will never be the same' and you have yourself an article!"
... yes, but do I have to publish that article myself?
Just found you today...lots of useful tidbits on your blog...many thanks!
Anonymous said, on 4/12/2009 7:10:00 PM
I usually enjoy reading your blog, and I have to say that I respect what you do immensely. But I also think your Be-an-Agent-for-a-Day Contest is misguided.
Yes, I do understand that agents have been taking some hits in blogs recently. And you guys have it hard, too. You have a right to feel a bit defensive.
But if you're going to teach writers how difficult it is to be agents, then writers are going to say, "Well, Nathan, let's teach you how hard it is to be a writer!" Which means you'd have to write a novel and then try to get it published.
See the problem here?
The reality is we (Agents, Editors, and Writers) are all in the same business. We need each other. So instead of arguing over whose job is harder we should be trying to work together.
I'm not prejudging how people respond to the contest. Some people might feel like it's fantastically easy to respond to 50 queries, and that's perfectly fine. I'm just trying to peel back some of the mystery around the process.
I hope the pirate book is contemporary. They're certainly headliners again after many decades of sailing below the radar. I feel a little left out after reading all the posts from people whose cars do smell like a horse. My car does not, but I like the smell of horse just fine. And the French surrendered? I'm shocked.
Anonymous said, on 4/12/2009 9:56:00 PM
Susan K, I have three cars that smell like a horse, and I am trying really hard to keep the last one smelling new. You need one I can set you up, your choice actual horse and you can create your own Ode De Pony perfume or a car that already has the heavenly aroma. The latter is less work, but also less fun.
I don't think Nathan's intention was some ruse to "teach us a lesson" with a preconceived notion that we would fail miserably.
I took this "experience" to be a lighthearted gesture to role play for a taste of what they see. If he wanted us to sink he would have asked us to do more than 50 queries in a week.
JMO.
Anonymous said, on 4/13/2009 12:53:00 AM
Knowing Crichton's past works, I'd have to go with modern day piracy. However, he did write TIMELINE, which was partly set in medieval France. So who knows. Looking forward to finding out, though.
I guess the reason you don't see many modern day pirate novels is because it's not that glamorous--dirt poor countries writers know nothing about, oil tankers, LNG carriers, it's an unfamiliar world to most people, and the ones who do know enough to write about it write non-fiction.
You might get some "hijacking" type of piracy stories where a yacht full of babes is taken over off the coast of Miami or something, but unless it's from a guy like Crichton, I don't think we'll be seeing the real deal in a novel anytime soon.
Anonymous said, on 4/13/2009 12:55:00 AM
Or Cussler. Cussler could handle modern day pirates.
I would think a modern day pirate story would have to be told, at least in part, from the pirates' POV. Something tells me today's scallywags would lack a bit of swash and buckle to say the least. But to bring to light the culture and economic plight of a nation such as Somalia and then take it to the waters could indeed work if handled skillfully.
Again, the romance inherent in ye olde pirate tales might not be attendant, but I can imagine a plot where U.N. Forces are coerced into going inland to stop the problem at his roots, and then learning the truth about where it comes from, perhaps too late to stop a disaster at sea.
Heh, word ver: unrowv. sl. 1. the desperate and usually unsuccessful attempts of Somali pirates to return to shore once their assault lifeboats have been disabled in battle.
Lots of links again, so let's get started! Also, thanks to the Hastings Entertainment Law class for hosting me this morning, you guys asked some really smart questions about the business. But then: you're law students. Of course you people are smart.
First up: Blog reader plugs! Reader Scott Rhoades has an article called "Great Writing Software That Won't Coast a Dime" in the May issue of The Writer magazine, which is in stores now. Mira started a blog called Come In Character, in which she offers prompts and writers respond in their characters' voices, which is undoubtedly a fun exercise. And longtime friend of the blog Ray Rhamey is turning his popular blog Flogging the Quill into a book version, so check that out as well.
This week's agentfail post at Bookends continues to spark reactions around the blogosphere. Victoria Strauss responds here and Jonathan Lyons here. Both, like me, are surprised at the venom. Only kind of unsurprised too. UPDATE: Jennifer Jackson weighs in here.
And to further respond to yesterday's post, I understand that agents sometimes fall down at the job and do some things that frustrate and irritate authors. We're human. But don't forget that: we're human. We're not horrible weeds in the publishing garden. We love our clients, books, and the publishing industry, or else we wouldn't be here.
Thanks to Colleen Lindsay for sending along this hilarious publishing glossary. Sample entry: AUTHOR TOUR: A hazing ritual intended to make authors compliant to their publishers.
In actual book glossary news, Book Roast's own anonymous publisher breaks down terms like launch and sales conference and discusses how publishers go about allocating marketing resources. An absolute must read if you're curious about how that process works.
Influential blogger Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo recently bought a Kindle, liked it a lot, and then immediately began considering the potentially scary repercussions and the disappearance of paper books. A really nice summary of both the advantages of e-books paired with consciousness of their perils.
Remember how Klazart/Vineet sent Authonomaniacs into freakout mode when he (legally) brought some of his gamer friends to the site to back his novel? Lauri Shaw has an interview with the man himself.
Via Moonrat comes word that the late Robert Jordan's last book will be released in three volumes. This is big news to everyone who has read all 7,078,253,278,234 words of the series thus far.
My client Jennifer Hubbard has another great writing post this week about what makes a book un-put-downable (and she should know, her upcoming novel THE SECRET YEAR absolutely falls into that category). She attributes it to a combination of a question to be solved and a compelling voice.
Reader Neil Vogler pointed me to an article that contemplates an interesting new avenue for writing: literary video games?
And finally, friend-of-the-blog Tanya Egan Gibson has a new book coming out called HOW TO BUY A LOVE OF READING, and she recently produced a really cool book trailer:
Have a great weekend!
36 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 4/5/2009
I was so caught up with everything yesterday, I forgot to look at the links. Awesome. So much good reading.
Can I make a fellow plug? Since Rick Daley was so nice to mention my site, can I add how useful I've found his? The Query Slush Pile is a place people can post queries and get feedback from peers. There's nothing like it that I know of, and it's been really helpful to read!
I don't know how to post links, but if you click on his profile, his blog is right there.
Also - Jil, thanks. I love having you at the blog.
I always think of a slushpile as an open tryout for a sports team. Who all's been there with me? You got a bunch of hopefuls in a gym or on a field, and you play and compete while the coaches wander around evaluating everyone. And at the end... well, let us say it's usually not an individual conference with every player that recounts their strengths and weaknesses amidst the reasons they did or didn't make the team. It's a list of names on a wall. A short list, with a lot of white space around it.
And there's always going to be people looking at that list in vain, trying to will their name onto it when they don't see the right letters arranged into a familiar and particular pattern. Stare hard enough and poof! it will magically appear. They'll stand there thinking "Hey, didn't they see that great crossover dribble I pulled on Joe that made him fall down?" And sometimes that might be all the person wants. A nice pat on the back and a "Great crossover back there. Better luck next time." Not knowing, getting no feedback... well, there's two options. Either the coaches did see you and didn't think you were the best choice for the team or they actually didn't see you, at least not clearly. Fair? Maybe not. But intentional? Not likely. Being furious, and even being right, won't help you get on that team. I remember a friend once, in highschool, who when he got his grade for Gym went to the teacher and said "Hey, this isn't the right mark. I think you mixed me up with Andrew..." He, um, didn't get his grade changed. The only thing to do is get ready for the next tryout. If that team isn't the right one you try out for a different team, and maybe that's the one that will see and recognize your skills and give you a chance to play. Maybe this team's desperate for a point guard with a nice crossover dribble.
I think Agentfail was a mixed bag. Some useful stuff, some non-useful. I think the idea was constructive criticism, but the result for some was simply a chance to vent. And often you could see the real reasons for anger showing through. I spent all that time working long hours for years writing this thing and killing myself while working two jobs and taking care of my family and all so agents can reject me and sometimes without even a response back, the SOBs! Now, are they really mad at the agents? A little displacement there, I think. Perceptions of their own failures pushing outward and finding a target, the only one avaiable: the agents. And posting anonymously... why hold back? Get it out, let the damn burst. Maybe they'll feel better afterward. I can hope, anyway. Carrying that anger around can't be good.
I do think much of the problem arises from that sense of perceived failure. Except that whole idea of failure is dangerous. I think you have to write the stories for yourself. I think you have to write them not for validation but for your own sanity and growth and creative engagement with the world. Publication is icing on the cake. You can't let it's lack demean your personal accomplishment. You've done something important for you - that's what matters. Giving your sense of self into the hands of others is a recipe only for frustration and anger.
Maybe you really wanted to play in the NBA, and those coaches ignoring you really hurt... but that wasn't why you started playing. I'm guessing there was a moment when the ball spun out of your hands in a perfect arc, a weightless flight, and descended with a silky snap through the mesh of the hoop... and in that moment you felt a rightness, a moment of personal exultation that you knew you needed, that you had to find again. The sound of the ball hitting the court was both an endpoint and a beginning, an invitation. An invitation to a space where there is only you and the ball and that orange rim draped in its inverted crown of white cord, and in that space all is perfect and tryouts are far, far away.
Nathan, a few weeks ago, I was going to ask Janet Reid to represent me to you, so that you'd represent me. I didn't do this, because....well, I chickened out.
So, I was thinking. I thought: I know! I'll represent myself. I'll become an agent and represent myself to you so that you'll represent me.
I know!!! No, don't call me brilliant. Well, you can. Actually go ahead. But really, it's not me. I obviously have no control over what pops into my head. It's a gift.
Now, I'm not sure what you have to do to become an agent, but I figure if I just start calling myself an agent, that must be pretty close.
And how does this mend bridges? Well, now that I'm not only an agent and a writer, but my own client and my own agent, fighting with myself would be give me such a headache, I'd probably implode. That's an incentive to get along if I ever heard one.
So, you can expect to hear from me soon on behalf of my client. Me.
Just wanted to say that I LOVE Bryan Russell's analogy.
And Nathan, though I've already done it via e-mail, just wanted to thank you publicly for posting my book trailer!
P.S. - Readers of Nathan's wonderful blog, if you have a story you'd like to share about how reading changed your life, submit it to my site and make your voices heard.
Thanks for the kind comment. And I must say that's the best book trailer I've ever seen. I've seen a lot of cheesy ones, that pushed me away more than encouraged me to buy, and a few pretty good ones. But that one was very slick, and I definitely got a hoot out of it. The x-ray vision beams coming out of that kid's eyes... priceless.
My best, Bryan Russell
Anonymous said, on 4/4/2009 12:31:00 PM
Wow, I just read what I wrote about my neighbor not bothering anymore. It makes it sound like I killed him. The prosecuting attorney finaly got involved. He no longer bothers us, but he is doing it to other people now.
I am contacting you on behalf of my client, Mira. I represent her in her seach for representation.
As an agent myself, I have oddles and oodles and oddles of prescience and can tell you that representing Mira would be the best decision you ever made. In your life. It would solve all of your problems in one fell swoop. It would bring untold riches and power beyond your imagination. It would bring you lifelong contentment and happiness. It would give you eternal youth and the power to fly.
Now, if that's not enough, let me tell you about my client.
a. She has written exactly one and 1/2 pages and says at least half of what she wrote is semi-intelligble. She promises to write another page if you represent her, and more pages after that if the mood strikes. I think the benefits of a client like this speak for itself. (I hope so, actually, because I'm drawing a complete blank here.)
b. She has exactly 49.5 ideas. She says some of those ideas are just as good as the one where I represent her. I know!
c. She has tons of potential. Why she has so much potential dripping from her fingers, gushing from her ears, and oozing from her pores, that I can barely stand to look at her.
d. She has told me that if I don't get you to represent her, she will fire my ass. I really need my ass. Frankly, I'd beg you if it wouldn't be unprofessional (oh my god, please represent her, on my god, please, please, please, please.)
I think you can see this is the deal of a lifetime. I'll expect her from you soon. You can e-mail me at Mira's address. She'll forward it to me.
actually thats not true. We are the ones doing unenviable jobs!
n this blogpost has the most open, honest, creative n varied discussion that I've seen on any blog. And thats coz the blogger here is really inspiring n a good sport!
I read most of agentfail before growing weary. I found it heartening. It's always validating to learn that you're not the only one in a frustrating situation.
Not being a literary agent, I didn't perceive great hostility or anger in most of the posts. If the topic had been the incompetence of one of the professions I've worked in, I guess I would be feeling the hate.
Just as queryfail was instructive, in a negative way, to writers, agentfail ought to be instructive to literary agents.
Apparently, the great majority of agents with an online presence are quite young--and have the brashness, sense of invulnerability, and entitlement of youth. The young eventually learn how the other end of the stick they're wielding feels. It's a reality check, kids.
It's subjective, but I really don't see much vitriol in the agentfail posts. There's disgust, frustration, outrage, and a few tears. Those are normal reactions to bad treatment.
wv: disho. The fun kitchen game I'll be playing for the next hour.
OK, Nathan. I read the comment you linked to as an example of the anger at #agentfail.
There was a lot of anger there, maybe, but it seemed like a lot of self-pity to me. Yes, writing is a hard business. And yes, a lot of us have day jobs and families and what all taking up most of our time and we squeeze our writing into the little cracks and crevices of our day as we can.
That's the way this business works on our end. And that's the choice I make to pursue my dream of being published and perhaps, one day, financially supporting myself with my writing.
I have made choices with my day job that led to my being successful in that respect. And that, too, involved having a talent for that business as well as learning new things, taking risks, dealing with wacko managers, and companies that do not have my best interest at heart.
I think there's an expectation with writing that it can be some kind of magical career that means living joyous, happy and free with lots of money and attention. Perhaps it's this perception of the life of a writer that leads to so much anger from the disappointment of reality.
So, I see self-pity. I see disappointment. I see dashed hopes and dreams. But I also see choices that were made by the writer without a realistic understanding of what this business really entails. I think most of us come to it from this perspective. And the learning curve can be steep and harsh. Having a few bad agents and a few bad policies that seem to be popular only exacerbates this emotionally charged, rejection riddled profession.
And it's Saturday morning and I haven't had breakfast yet. My rambling opinion, FWIW.
Fair enough, I like X, too. But "Words" blows anything they did away, in my humble opinion. Maybe they lacked a certain street cred that X had, but that's one tasty tune.
And in the spirit of agreeing to disagree...*hugs her anyway* :)
Lawyer = smart, NO Lawyer = crafty. The two are not the same. ;) Agents are brokers. Period. Make them money and you make them happy? Correct? It's all about the money honey and not one thing more. If you can't write, you won't make money, if you can write, you will make money. If you have a flair for self promotion as well as writing talent and are prolific, you will make lots of money. Think Big Mac Meal and not filet mignon and you won't be far off with what sells. Pity really, because there are so many artists out here toiling away at work that is interesting, daring and complex, but they will never see the light of day because the masses are so intellectually stupid. One story that never fails to rub the cat's fur the wrong way involves the publishing history of a little work of art called 'A Confederacy Of Dunces.' Poor John Kennedy Toole.
Definitely a great analogy, and I think when you add in a bit of desperation, whether that's induced by a bad financial situation or a family who maybe put up with the amount of time it took to write a novel but wants results, it dials things up to an extreme level. When people start getting desperate they can't bear to blame themselves for their own lack of success, and they find a scapegoat. It's pretty easy to blame agents or the query process and to catalog our shortcomings.
And I understand the view expressed by some here that agentfail was a simple matter of people blowing off steam. And to be sure, maybe some people were.
But my concern is that threads like agentfail validate some authors' sense of aggrievement in an unhealthy way, and they wind up being more extreme in their anger and sense that they've been wronged.
I don't think the belief that agents owe prospective authors should be validated. I just won't agree with it. It's not realistic, it's not productive, and I don't think writers should convince themselves that they deserve it. What happens when 30,000 people are sending me their queries? 50,000? Where will it end? The only people I owe anything to are my clients. Everything else I do because I believe in courtesy and going the extra mile and I'm trying to help people, but I'm not doing it because I owe anyone anything. I'm drawing a line in the sand on that one, for myself and for the perfectly wonderful agents who have no-response policies.
There have been psychological studies that found that when you put people of similar views in a room on a controversial issue, not only are their existing views reinforced, their views tend to become more extreme. And I think you saw that as the thread went on. Things grew gradually more extreme when people got riled up by the angry views that were already expressed.
And I think agents have every right to be unsettled by that. I'm really surprised that people can read those posts and not think there's something unsettling about them or that it represents simple venting. Can you even imagine if an agent went on a ranting, cursing, raving post about how horrible authors are, even anonymously? Imagine. The Internet would probably catch fire and explode with the ensuing outrage.
It doesn't make it right for agents to be out of line and unprofessional and I won't defend them when they are, but I also am surprised people are defending all of the posters in that thread.
I'd agree with that. I hope a lot of them just blew off steam and got back into normal moods afterwards. But I understand the danger. I think the request to post anonymously backfired a bit on that thread. I think Jessica just wanted every one to feel secure so that they could offer honest constructive criticism without worrying. Instead it became a chance to vent anger and go headhunting. Not nice. A bit of the snark on queryfail, to me, was unprofessional, but there was no anger. I mean, I think some of the agents might get tired and annoyed by the repetition of the task... but there was a lot of rage on Agentfail (though a number of constructive and honest comments too). I agree that there's a difference. And I agree that group "vents" are dangerous.
Reminds me of that old prison study. They took college boys as volunteers, and took them to a prison. Some became guards, and some became prisoners, with realistic moments of interaction between them. Within days there were horrible abuses going on and many of the "inmates" were breakind down from the psychological stress. The study was called off. Group behavior is spooky. Being part of a group hugely weakens inhibitions. Someone made a suggestion about having a "What would your ideal agent be like?" day, which I think would be better, because it's framed constructively and postively (even if the content might be similar).
Lol, you'd think as writers and agents we'd be more conscious of language effects. It's why I hate the binary idiocy of the whole internet pass/fail language. Yes/no, black/white... while most of life is lived in the graded areas of greyness in between. Life is a little more subtle and complex than pass/fail. I think that's one of the reasons I like it here, as there are a lot of people willing to wade into the grey areas.
Oh, and you can use the analogy in that future bestseller Everything I Know About Publishing I Learned from Sports. I'm going to pre-order from Amazon, myself.
Marie, I get what you're saying, but my focus is on the idea that nobody ever knows the psyche behind the words. People snap and you never know what's gonna push them over the edge. You can see some people breaking from miles away, whereas others you never know until the proverbial too late - as Nathan alluded to, the problem is what I call the cow mentality. When everyone's in a room saying "moo," you want to say "moo" louder and longer than the rest and eventually that cathartic/enraged nonsense can help tip the balance into crazy-land - a place where we never know what's gonna happen.
Some glibness aside (and some added), it's excellent to hear that your stalker went bye-bye (and being a retributive cow that I am, if that's in a dark place filled with worms, it bothers me not).
Definitely, Bryan -- the Stanford Prison Experiment, in case anyone is interested in reading more. I took a class from the professor who conducted the experiment, and he talked about how he got so wrapped up in the experiment and how exciting it all was he wasn't able to see that it was becoming psychologically damaging to the participants and that he was becoming complicit in the mental abuse that the "guards" were inflicting upon the "prisoners". It took another professor to wake him up to what was happening.
He talked about it as an illustration of how difficult it is to think clearly in a group setting that has its own inertia. The prisoners could have opted out at any time, but for some reason they stayed in as well. It's a really fascinating/horrifying study.
When everyone's in a room saying "moo," you want to say "moo" louder and longer than the rest and eventually that cathartic/enraged nonsense can help tip the balance into crazy-land - a place where we never know what's gonna happen.
I'm the type of person who, when everyone is saying moooo, will roll my eyes and say baaaa just to be different.
But Nathan and Bryan, I think you've really hit the nail on the head with the psychology behind where #agentfail ended up.
Chris Bates said, on 4/4/2009 6:38:00 PM
Nathan said: People can get mad, or they can get working.
And there it is...
Look, I gotta tell ya all this failure stuff is wreaking havoc on my ability to sit down and work.
I have the biggest love/hate relationship with the internet ... and this site of yours, Bransford.
I have no idea why I'm even here - hell, I'm not even looking for an agent!
Apropos of nothing, I just have to say ... my "ha ha ha AS IF" pick of Michigan State in the final two ... is jaw-droppingly coming true. ZOMG. Who lit a fire under the Spartans?!
I firmly believe that agents owe nothing to people who submit queries or unsolicited materials. I don't *like* the "no answer means no" thing but that's just because I don't like it, not because I think writers are owed better.
However, I think as soon as the agent steps up and begins a relationship (any kind of relationship) the agent does "owe" something to professionalism.
I don't think the agent owes a detailed response or even a personal response to requested material (again, it would be nice, but not owed), but I do think the agent "owes" an actual notice of severing of the very minor interaction he began...he owes a rejection. Form is fine, rejection is rejection, it all means "no" and means it quite clearly.
And I believe these is a steady increase in what is "owed" to professionalism as the agent asks more and more of the relationship (minor though it is). If the agent actually asked for revisions (for example) then a short but personal note (not details, just a "thanks for trying this but it still isn't working for me and I don't want you to invest more time into something where I'm probably not the right match for you." would meet what is "owed" by professionalism.
What a writer ideally wants is going to tend to be pie in the sky, but I do think that to be a courteous professional, some things are required just by that standard. Once you start something, you should finish it...and finish it to at an ever-increasing level of courtesy depending upon what you asked for.
Agents don't start the flood of unsolicited (except perhaps by merit of not slamming the door shut...but calling that an obligation on the agent is just unfair). But if the agent steps up to purposefully continue the relationship to further steps by the author, I do think professionalism does require certain things of the agent, IF the agent wants to (1) consider himself/herself a professional and (2) if the agent wants snarking rights when writers act like jerks who totally ignore professionalism in their own behaviors.
Of course, no one owes me agreement on these points, but naturally, I think I'm right...sadly, I mostly always do.
Anonymous said, on 4/5/2009 11:01:00 AM
Hi...
I don't have time to read ALL of the posts here. I don't know if my saying this will make anything better. There are writers out there that get it.
I've been writing for seven years. I'm not published. I don't have an agent. I write because I love it. It's exciting and fun. It's a thrill to send my work out there and see what people have to say.
One really awesome author gave me the best advice once, and I will never forget it.
If it's not fun, why write? Sure it's a lot of work, a lot of "mystery" for some... but If I had the level of angst that some have on agentfail and also here...
I wouldn't have these manuscripts (2 that were really crappy ( I am not just saying that for pity... I'm talking x-men meets lord of the rings and the characters top it off with a regency era ball crappy haha)... but with awesome advice and feedback from an agent and editors... I learned how to write something better...)
So, I am a little confused at the anger. It would really take the fun out of it for me, and I'd have to stop writing.
Find the fun! Write something better! ... Forget about it, and don't let it stop you :). And annon or not, don't give into bad attitudes that could effect your creativity. And thank your agents and editors, they are the ones who will someday-- if you don't give up-- push you to create your best story.
The only one stopping you is you, and move on, find something else... or write something better.
~from Annon the writer of the space regency with demons ;)....
You know a good way to get some of the anger off the agents right now?
Let's do publisherfail. Boy, you think you saw anger last week.
That would be so much fun. (I'm a writer. I LOVE drama.)
I also want to say calming down is good. Having productive discussions is also good. Sure once people get going all anger about everything in the world can get directed at one source. Mob/group 'think' is real - and it also happened on queryfail (imho)- but there really is one inescapable fact here.
Many writers are very, very upset with agents and have had some really, really bad experiences.
This is not a good thing. An industry as a whole that is ignoring the importance of developing good will with their suppliers (because that's what writers are) is extraordinarily short sighted.
Group think can also convince people that they aren't doing anything wrong, people were just upset, out of control, whatever label you want to give it.
You don't get that degree of anger without something real at the bottom.
Don't believe me? Do Tulipfail. ChocolateChipCookiefail. WhenWillSpringComefail.
I agree with you there. When agents request material they should respond. I was a little appalled though, at the number of people in that thread who never bothered to follow-up with an agent. We're dealing with a loooot of manuscripts. Mistakes happen. Sometimes I'll e-mail people and it goes into someone's spam filter or they just don't get it. It's the author's responsibility to follow up.
If they follow up and the agent still doesn't ever write back: bad agent. But if the author never even follows up: bad author.
Nathan said, "...the Stanford Prison Experiment, in case anyone is interested in reading more. I took a class from the professor who conducted the experiment,"
Wow, that is so cool that you took a class from that professor. When I was in graduate school, earning my Masters degree in Clinical Psychology, that was one of the experiments that made the biggest impression on me.
Experiments like that one plus the experiments that I conducted for my own Masters thesis made a huge impact one me, in terms of demonstrating how irrationally information can be interpreted and how much mob mentality can influence behavior. My Masters thesis is a 115-page paper entitled An Attributional Analysis of Social Tolerance for Institutionalized Uses of Torture. My thesis advisor and I later presented the results at a Conference of the Eastern Psychological Association. The experiments involved writing newspaper articles in which I varied tiny, insignificant bits of information about fictional victims of torture and then asked each subject to read one version of the newspaper article and answer questions about the victim's situation, including whether or not they thought the victim was guilty. The results were startling: insignificant types of information influence major conclusions about a person's guilt or innocence and whether or not they deserve to be tortured. If you'd ever be interested in reading the thesis, Nathan, I'd be happy to send you a copy. The results of that experiment plus reading about the Stanford Prison Experiment and other experiments taught me to always step back, look at how much evidence is really available, and not to jump to conclusions based on limited information or mob mentality.
I agree with that, writers need to follow up, but some folks I've met have an almost pathological fear of "bothering" agents with follow-ups, especially in light of the long response times some agents actually do have.
Author phobias aren't the agent's responsiblity, of course, but do you have a suggestion as to any sort of universal non-pestersome follow up period? I'm not actually looking for an agent as the work I do doesn't need one, but I do get asked a lot by writers so if you want to venture a good "follow-up rule of thumb" -- I'll adopt it and pretend it's my advice :)
Oh, that whole spam filter thing reminds me. I'm in a position where I respond to manuscript submissions for a couple different venues, one of which is a paying market. It drives me crazy when I respond to an email sent by an author and I get a notice that the author will NOT get my email because I'm not on an approved list...and then gives me the hoops I can go through to be on the list. That is blindingly rude, in my opinion. If you want me to buy and pay for an article, don't ask me to play games with your spam guards.
Every time I run into one of those, I wonder how many times that author will just never hear back on a submission. There are worse things in the world than spam...and spam filters just might be one of them.
Another busy week in publishing, so let's get started.
First off, my wonderful client Jennifer Hubbard and some of her blogging friends are hosting a fundraiser for local libraries! All you have to do is click over to her blog and leave a comment on her blog or one of the other participants, and they'll donate an extra 25 cents.
Also on Jennifer Hubbard's blog recently was some of the best first draft advice you'll ever receive.
And our good friend Conduit/Stuart Neville, author of the forthcoming novel THE TWELVE (UK)/GHOSTS OF BELFAST (US) (can we start calling Conduit/Stuart "Slash" for short?) posted about a common sentiment about embarking upon the all-important second novel. Angst and nervousness sometimes (often) involved.
In the category of "holy crap, why didn't anyone tell me this blog existed???", I came across Picador creative director Henry Sene Yee's blog, which is mainly devoted to talking about how book designers create their jackets, their inspiration and source material, and some of the drafts and false starts along the way. IT. IS. FASCINATING. The most recent post is about the cover for COLUMBINE by Dave Cullen. (hat tip Book Design Review)
Good news for the indispensable site Writer Beware, a judge dismissed a lawsuit by a supposed literary agent against the site, with prejudice. I've always wanted to type that. I just took out the trash WITH PREJUDICE. It has a ring to it. Anyway, as you may recall a literary agent sued the site's organizers claiming libel, but the judge was having none of that.
The Bookseller recently reported on a reader study (market research?? publishing??) in the UK that concluded that 20m (which I think means 20 million, although it could mean 20 males) readers are currently being left behind by a publishing industry that they think conveys a certain type of society and lifestyle. They also regard reading as an "anti-social activity". Well, YEAH. And thank goodness, too.
Also in "those wacky Brits" news, the annual award for the Oddest Book Title was announced. This year's winner: THE 2009-2014 WORLD OUTLOOK FOR 60-MILLIGRAM CONTAINERS OF FROMAGE FRAIS. Sorry, BABOON METAPHYSICS. Not weird enough for first place.
In agent advice news, you may have noticed a recent article in The Beast about how some big short story collections are defying industry conventional wisdom that says collections don't sell. So agents are probably all over them now, right? Miriam at Dystel & Goderich says not so fast.
Meanwhile, after all this talk about the death of publishing, do you still want to work in the publishing business? Jessica Faust has some advice: pack your bags for Manhattan. Oh. And you might want to brush up on your drink mixology skills for your night job (yes, you may need one).
And finally, take a beloved picture book classic, add Dave Eggars and Spike Jonez, mix in a dash of the Arcade Fire (Mom, that's a popular band among people my age), and what you have is pure hipster crack. I can tell you from personal experience that Gen Xers and Yers across the nation are currently losing their minds over the trailer for WHERE THE WILD THINGS ARE:
Have a great weekend!
25 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 4/6/2009
Re: UK survey: But reading CAN be a social activity. Ever see four kids hanging over the same magazine or yapping about a bestseller? The article makes a good point about difficult-to-navigate libraries and bookstores. You should be asking how you can make it as easy to get books as it is to get TV.
That looks like a perfect movie for the gen x crowd. You see, we aren't that hard to figure out! Take some imagination and a wild adventure and we're all in. (P.S. especially if they throw in a little anti-abusive-authority themes in as well!)
The "literary agency" that sued the Writer Beware gals actually advertises on Facebook claiming to be a new literary agency. Thank God for that blog and website!
It is so true what you and other agents tell writers...research agents before you query (for multiple reasons)!
I never read 'Wild Things" but maybe I would like it now. I do love anything that has a monster becoming beloved. The Little Prince has always been one of my favorites.
Melissa McInerney said, on 3/27/2009 6:39:00 PM
Dave Eggars! Spike Jonze! This could be good. Usually movies based on beloved children's books are really bad, unless Tim Burton gets involved.
Great links this week with lots of good advice. Too bad you can't help me with March Madness, although I did pick Missouri to win and last time I checked, they were still hangin' in there.
Also in "those wacky Brits" news, the annual award for the Oddest Book Title was announced.
You have to love the Brits. They have given us most of the classic children's books but also most of our movie and TV favorites.
As for the trailer, must see the whold movie but as it stands now, from the trailer, the musical score nails it and though I think it could have been done (carefully, meaning darkely) with just animation, the live might work (though that intails the child being much older then in the book) No, it's not exactly like H.R. Puffenstuff as some say (though I get the similarity) We can only see.
To INK: No, I haven't read 'Bird by Bird' by Anne Lamott. I'll check it out.
I've also got quite a few 'writing books' in my library including a few traditional reference tomes. I'll wait for Nathan to put the question up for discussion before I list the ones I know about. I think it's an excellent way for writers to learn from other writers which books are worth the purchase.
Thanks, Nathan - will watch for that question to appear in one of your posts.
Thanks for the links, especially the Jessica Faust promotion one -- there's so much pressure to promote, and really so little we can do (without $$) that will have a real impact. It's nice for someone to say, "Just write good books." I only wish it truly were that simple!
Thanks, Mira, re-Bird by Bird. That's two that like it and one that doesn't. It's good to get different opinions, since we all look for different things in writing books.
From a devoted lurker...thanks for the trailer! It made me cry. And I have a personal policy of never (almost) watching movies based on favorite children's books. Where does that leave me now?
..though for us loyal fans you are no. 1. Others' blogs are just not there. You are really savage - ya I mean you save the age.
have a good abrupt weekend. I mean abso rapturous..
Anonymous said, on 3/28/2009 4:16:00 PM
This is a call to everyone to please step outside the right vs. left paradigm. While there are important issues worth debating within this paradigm, all of them will be moot if we do not focus on a much greater issue outside this paradigm. Thomas Jefferson warned of wealth concentrating to such an extent that it threatened the state. Nowadays the media has taught us all very well to ridicule anyone who talks of central banks usurping the power of government. Well now I suppose the media will have to laugh at themselves, as many outlets from Newsweek to the Financial Times of London are openly discussing the creation of a "bank of the world" that will control economic policies of every nation. I invite you to watch this video, which details how this is currently taking place. While it focuses on our current officials' cooperation with these plans, it steps out of the typical political paradigm by highlighting the cooperation of both parties. Please do not look to politicians to protect us. Only we can protect us. And our first step must be to reach out to police and military. Without their cooperation, the global elite won't have the muscle to exercise their will of oppression. Please share this oath-keepers blog with them.
wow. that trailer is amazing. I'm not surprised people are going nuts for it. Stunning, and great music.
Marilyn, I finally had time to sit down and read your book - I loved it! I had trouble at first, because I was reading for the wrong age group. Once I adjusted the age - 6-12, right - it totally worked. Gorgeous prose, great story. I got goose bumps at the end.
I'm going to review it at Amazon.
You know, I was thinking about this. I have my hands full with my new blog, but maybe for the future - or if someone else wants to.....
A really cool blog would be a place where new and newish authors get together and read each other's works. They could support each other and help market each other and talk about how to get the word out.
Just a thought. I guess a networking support site? Maybe something like that already exists....
Sorry, but this trailer is nothing but a kid running around with a big, fluffy muppet. How is this so exciting? A sad commentary, I'm afraid, on what's "new" and "exciting."
Wow, thank you very, very much! I'm so glad you liked The Fisherman's Son. I still get nervous when someone reads my work. I'm honored that you read one of my books, and thrilled that you enjoyed it.
I wrote "COLUMBINE" and I love what Henry did with the cover. And I loved reading his blog and learning more about how it came about. (They were great about asking for my approval, including offering to put my name back on the cover if I wanted, but I never saw/heard much of how it came about. I don't think writers usually get to see that part. I had no idea there were all those drafts for my cover.)
Thanks for mentioning it. I'm glad this post lead me to your blog. (Google alerts--aren't they great?)
And jumping in early on the writing books, I'm a huge fan of Janet Burroway's "Writing Fiction: A Guide To Narrative Craft." I loved it as a student, and as a teacher, teaching undergrads. And they loved it, too.
great stuff. and i love the bit about the first draft - but what about taking on the second draft? to me that's almost as daunting, if not more, because the passion of the creative act has sort of passed on to a new stage. the pragmatic, soul-searching, scrutinizing eye of the perfectionist must take over. where to start? how to do it - section by section, from the beginning, from the end to the opening... or simply shove it in a drawer and hope it finishes itself?
Lots and lots of links this week, so let's get this started, shall we?
First off, I'm as surprised as you are that my bracket wasn't completely busted by 3 PM yesterday, which probably means that I'll be dead in the water by the end of the day. There's currently a nine-way tie atop the Blog Challenge -- we'll see how things shake out by Sunday!
In other literary sports news, ESPN columnist JA Adande wrote a terrific article about the relevancy of Malcolm Gladwell's book OUTLIERS to sports, and in particular he talked to the extremely intelligent Celtic star Ray Allen about his thoughts on the book. Allen reflected on the unique advantages that put him on his path to NBA stardom.
Given how many dreams we have to dash in a given day, and, yes, how many bad literary agent apples there are in the publishing orchard, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that literary agents have aroused so much antipathy out there on the Internet lately and lots of finger-crossing about our supposed impending demise. The Self Publishing Review took issue with my statement in my interview with Alan Rinzler that we're always on the side of authors because Henry feels that we first have our eye on the market.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the coin is Maya Reynolds, who went on a rant of her own about against anti-agent rants.
Victoria Strauss also pushed back against some of the agent-related Internet negativity and checked in with the ultimate, hilarious queryfail: querying someone who isn't even an agent.
Also, I love Seth Godin, who has an article about how important it is for literary agents to specialize and stand for something in order to add value (and I agree), but he begins with a foreboding comparison to how travel agents have disappeared, which only made me think of the rejection letters: "I'm really sorry, but Hawaii said they won't let you in. Sigh. It's just such a tough travel market and they say they can't take on yet another person from Indiana. I'll try Fiji next."
Lastly in agent news, Curtis Brown client Gretchen McNeil recently posted an awesome interview with ICM children's book agent Tina Wexler, a fellow faculty alum of the Atlanta Writers Conference and an excellent agent.
At SXSW this week, Penguin UK won awards for Best in Show and an experimental prize for their website We Tell Stories, devoted to experimental stories told through web tools, including a story told through Google Maps. Very cool.
Also on the web, reader Teresa Miller pointed me to WriteTV, which is a web compilation of interviews with authors such as Sue Monk Kidd, Amy Tan, and more.
Reader Mary Ulrich pointed me to a seriously terrific article by Kevin Kelly about the uneven adoption of new technology, and how different groups sometimes have irrational reasons for refusing to adopt superior technology even when it would be to their direct benefit. Hmmm.... A group with an illogical attachment to outdated technology..... grasping for a book-related example....
Speaking of new technology, Sony and Google got their deal on and you will soon be able to read 500,000 public domain books on the Sony Reader. For free. Wow. Your move, Kindle. (And yes, publishers weep for their backlists).
Also in New Yorker profile news is blog favorite Ian McEwan. Daniel Zalewski's profile of McEwan is, shall we say, comprehensive. In fact I'm pretty sure it's longer than ON CHESIL BEACH. And ATONEMENT. Combined.
In presidential book news, via Publishers Lunch (subscription) comes word that former President Bush got himself a book deal, to be published by Crown, about making decisions. Commence sniggering or reverential expectation depending on one's political persuasion.
Amid a really big year for Hachette, one bookseller is none too pleased that they have cut back on the co-op programs, including their Emerging Voices program. Check out the post in case you're curious about what those co-op programs constitute, and yes, another example of publishers coalescing around established authors at the expense (potentially) of new voices.
And finally finally, you know how I like to end with puppies, and this week I get to end with a bestselling author's puppy. I give you... Jeff Abbott's insanely cute corgi. (UPDATE: oops, it's a cardigan. Not just a sweater anymore.)
Have a great weekend!
25 Comments on This Week in Publishing, last added: 4/6/2009
Playing catch up for the entire week and now this post? Yikes! I'll be here all day. : ) Thanks though, very good stuff. Of course I had to click on the link to Jeff's pup first. Love Corgi's.
Mark: My Corgi is a purebred Cardigan (the Corgi with the tail). Cardigans come in black/white, brindle, tan, brown/white, and gray. Pembrokes (the Corgi without the tail) have a more limited color range. Cardigan Welsh Corgis and Pembroke Welsh Corgis are considered two distinct breeds. (and for anyone considering a dog, Cardigans are a fantastic choice. Sorry for the plug.)
We now return you to your regular publishing discussion. Have a good weekend.
Hey, I just tried to register for the contest. I'm alittle late, but I remembered that I wanted to win. Have to play to win. Someone already signed up with my e-mail.
I've had my Sony reader for a week, and for everyone who's hesitant to try one, GIVE IT ONE HOUR. I think the eink is made out of crack.
Not that I'm planning on giving up paper books, of course. But the reader is awesome and very easy on the eyes. I keep forgetting it's an electronic device and try to turn the page as if it was paper, which makes me look sort of eccentric to anyone watching me.
Jeff, I've always loved corgi's. They remind me of that video game, Star Fox. In our house it's referred to as the Star Fox dog. Never seen one that color before. Too cute. :)
I love that anti anti-agent rant, sooooo true. My sentiments exactly.
I HOPE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT WEEKEND.
:)Ash said, on 3/20/2009 2:19:00 PM
Wow, lots of good stuff this week! I've only read through part of it so far; can't wait to read the rest!
And I'm doing fabulously in the bracket challenge... for now :) I have Memphis beating UConn for the final four, and after yesterday's performance, I fear that was a huge mistake...
Rats, I'm older than the Hungry Caterpillar, but we share the same birthday.
I'm not anything approaching an agent, only a lowly author, but I've received an entire manuscript from someone seeking publication. It was an emotionally disturbed young person's memoir about being supernatural. I ponied up the postage to return it with as many kind suggestions as I could muster.
Maya Renolds - great Rant! She was right on! The world is unfair...suck it up and move on.
Victoria Strauss - HILARIOUS. What idiots. Especially the spammer. jerk.
Seth Godin - good points. Would love it if real estate agents were anything like that...lol. As for literary agents I think Nathan you were making a point in your comment about this a post or two back...you have to pass on lots of good stuff but take the stuff you believe in 110% or something. Totally agree...good marketing, wise time mgt.
Bush - should be interesting to see his explanation...but I bet that book will need HEAVY grammatical editing even though he'll still be using a ghost writer I'm sure. ;)
Obama - DANG. What are the requirements to run for pres again?? I think I may try...lol.
Jeff Abbots pup - Too cute! Definitely worth the lengthy read...haha.
But alas, I will have to catch up on the other links later. ;)
I have a follow-up thank you for mentioning my query blog last week (http://openquery.blogspot.com).
In the past week the site had 5,450 page views. That's 2,170 visits, with an average of 2.51 pages per visit (each query is its own page).
Average time on the site is almost 4.5 minutes, which means people are sticking around to read and comment.
Compare that to the inaugural week prior, which had 617 pageviews and 288 visits...
Several people have posted their thanks to me for starting the site, but I have to share it with you because it wouldn't be a benefit to anyone if it went unknown.
I'm officially on link overload. Thanks for fulfilling my link quota for the month. No, but seriously, it was like a one stop shop for all the interesting articles of the week. Thanks for doing all the work for me.
Anonymous said, on 3/20/2009 3:14:00 PM
Also, Jon Karp is still redefining his views on better books, fewer titles.
Nathan, thanks for the link to the New Yorker tribute to David Foster Wallace. A little heartbreaking, but important reading for me. He played an important role in my evolution as a writer and reading that was a little like finding closure. I'm looking forward to reading The Pale King when they publish it.
I was going to read the McEwan article, but... it sounds like it's even longer than the Wallace piece, and so I need more free time.
Just wondered if you're planning more blog posts specifically about writing in the near future. That would be so much fun. The discussions about writing this past week were a blast!
As a represented author and attorney, I can see several parallels between agents and lawyers, in regards to representing clients. I'm certain this isn't coincidence, considering how many agents are, in fact, attorneys.
Proponents of self publishing must come from the same cloth as the clients who walk into my office and ask me to prove why they need to retain my services in order to better their case outcome.
The answer is much the same as why, statistically, you need an agent to publish successfully: because that's how the game is played. I can't see any sort of unlikely total shift to e-publishing changing this.
Although, I have to disagree with your notion that people don't have enough time to try. It seems there is a huge population of publishing hopefuls that have put all their eggs in the book deal basket without regard to other careers or jobs. I imagine they have all the time in the world.
Lucinda said, on 3/20/2009 6:20:00 PM
Your links were very informative and interesting; the comments were great as well. It may have taken you half an hour to write this one, but is certainly takes more time to read and click on links. (not complaining)
Reading some of the comments to Maya's blog made me think about an old saying. It is so old that I am unable to quote it exactly.
It was something along the lines of...
The best teachers are those who remember being a student.
The best parents are those who remember being a child.
The best judges are those who remember being lawyers.
...and the list goes on.
In other words, sometimes successful authors tend to forget what it was like to be just writers where their daydreams are filled with stardom and wealth. In their eagerness to be on board the starships, some writers fail to realize they must pay dues (read, research, learn, rewrite, rewrite, and rewrite). Some writers who begin writing late in life feel they don't have time to play the games and forgo the dues.
If a writer earnestly wants success without compromise, nothing will get in the way, not even rejected queries.
But, I really do find it hard to believe that someone would submit a manuscript to a person that is not an agent....even ignorance is smarter than that.
Thanks, Nathan, for all your wonderful research and information you give us with this blog. I read it every day even if I don't post. (I think my long-winded response this time makes up for all the past lurking)
Thanks for the linky love, Nathan! Tina was an awesome interview. And there's another killer interview with Curtis Brown's own Ginger Clark here: http://gretchenmcneil.blogspot.com/2009/03/interview-with-ginger-clark-literary.html
If you don't keep an eye on the market, how exactly are you supposed to help the writers? If you "take on" a book, but can't find anywhere to sell it, who exactly does that help? Sheesh. :)
It's about the problems that the newspaper industry is currently experiencing, but I think a lot of what Clay Shirky says can also be applied to the publishing industry.
Ha, the Bush book should be fun to read! Definitely will be written by a ghost writer, and I'd say it would have to be approved by publicists, legal team and the rest of the entourage before it hits the shelves, but I'm sure it will make great critic fodder when it comes out.
On the flip side, I would love to read the Obama book (major crush on the president!).
Regarding the bunch of writers who go off on anti-agent rants, I think it's their loss. I think it makes perfect sense to have someone who knows the industry on your side and I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want an agent.
And, in conclusion, I signed up for the MM competition on the work computer and I can't remember my user name, so I can't see how I'm doing until I get back in on Monday. Which is probably a good thing. I need to write this weekend, not obsess about teams I don't know in a game I don't watch!
PS Nathan I want you do do well in the comp because you and I picked the same team to win...
Agents do stand for something already. First n foremost their personality - which shines thru in the words they put out there. Just like there are complaining authors, some lit agents are so negative - going on n on about what n who they do not want instead of clarifying what they DO want.
I agree with the advice that one should see a fit with agent before sending a query. And I always first check an agent's personality and then the genre. If I don't like the former I drop him. Simple! O lucky him/her one should say. But so far out of about 100 agents I may have researched, I've found only 6 that I liked. This is not a good strategy but it keeps the mood good n positive. But a whole lot there are so offputting and crazily bitter (pray why)that u feel i don't want to put my work in the hands of this A**. I bet most writers feel that way. So while the agents are always going to be there but these ranting sort will find themselves out of business - actually not but no harm wishing.
I agree with Godin: agents need to lead. However, there seems to be an altruistic element to that which, in these times, I can't see becoming popular or possible even when the prevailing determinate is survival. That said, hands are being forced to find value for money on both sides, so who knows? I think a blog is a great way to differentiate, as well. Keep it up!
My girlfriend and I also spent the better part of an hour in total walking in and out of bookstores in Cambridge and Paris (the famous Shakespeare & Co. among them) smelling the old pages, feeling the matte finishes of some of the covers, and gliding our fingertips over the soft pages as they sifted. I'm still not sure if we were indulging our senses or saying goodbye.
And Wallace seemed his own worst enemy. It's not unusual, I think, to seek a direction in an art form that will bring deliverance, but to have the courage to surrender all in its pursuit certainly is. But it is very calculated, and I'm not sure that isn't in itself the stuff of madness, or at least, frustration. He sought to bring the world to his understanding. Time easily runs out in those instances, one has to think. In the end, I hope his legacy is more than unfinished work and sadness. RIP, David.
And, as I said, it's always lovely to say in retrospect how we all knew what would happen. In truth, no one knows what will happen or what would have happened had different decisions been made.
Alternative histories only exist in fantasy even though we would like to think we all knew better.
Actually, a lot of people correctly predicted how those big decisions would turn out.
Pure Fiction said, on 3/21/2009 10:14:00 AM
Hi Nathan, I’m a regular visitor to your blog - fair play to you for making your knowledge of the publishing world so accessible and non-exclusive. In relation to your mention of We tell Stories, I’ve just started a fictional blog,(Pure Fiction, at www.fictionalfictionwriter.com), featuring a fictional, newly separated writer struggling to get to grips with her brand new life on the west coast of Ireland. My hope would be to try and maintain the structure and tension of a novel through the blog, while incorporating any messages, comments, or feedback I get into the story. This has probably been done many times before, but as a novice blogger, the possibilities seem endless – twitter updates as the story develops, you-tube links featuring characters featured in the blog. Do you know of any examples of this kind of thing?
Pure Fiction, that's a great idea, but if you plan to publish that work, be aware that by posting it on a blog, you've given away first publishing rights.
That doesn't mean you can't sell it, but it would be harder to sell, and you'd miss out on the part where the publisher pays you for first publishing rights.
It sucks, but that's my understanding. If I'm wrong, I hope someone will let me know. I'm fairly sure I'm right though.
The West Regional is killing me. Wake, oh Wake... how could you do this to me? Havne't I always been fair? Haven't I always loved you?
Nona said, on 3/21/2009 10:47:00 AM
Wallace wrote to Franzen, shortly before the book’s publication. “I don’t think it’s very good — some clipping called a published excerpt feverish and not entirely satisfying, which goes a long way toward describing the experience of writing the thing.”
I've had "Infinite Jest" on a side table for several months now. I've skimmed it. I've read other books cover to cover in the meantime. The library's going to be wanting it back soon . . .
I can only think that if he'd had more fun writing it, that maybe people would have more fun reading it.
Personally, I write to amuse myself. Oh, I'm just a happy idiot. Or at least, I try to be.
There is an interesting entry at Janet Reid's blog called: "Some Query Letter Fundamentals." In that entry she states: 1. if you send her a CD of your work she will throw it away unopened 2. if you send her an E-mail with a reading receipt she will ignore or cancel what she calls the "annoying" query
I commented at her blog and she has comment moderation in place. My comment was not published. I am confused as to why, because I asked a good question which I think should be addressed. Here is my comment:
"Who is hurt when a CD is thrown away? The CD might contain the next Pulitzer. Seriously. And why get the whole package off your screen just because it contains a reading receipt? Who would be the loser if you clicked "cancel" and the material was sent by (for instance) Jack Kerouac? All these rules seem silly and they appear to come from a place of anger and spite. They seem designed to punish the writer, when I would think the agenda should be to objectively look at the project and decide if it is worthwhile pursuing. All the rest seems to be petty horseshit.... even in a very busy and bogged down work day."
I do not understand why my comment would not be published. A blog should have a good mix of commentary, not just comments that are singularly dimensional and flatter the blog author. And let me add that for a literary agent to auto reject queries based on a personal annoyance level seems a bit self-defeating.
corrrected comment: There is an interesting entry at Janet Reid's blog called: "Some Query Letter Fundamentals." In that entry she states: 1. if you send her a CD of your work she will throw it away unopened 2. if you send her an E-mail with a reading receipt she will ignore or cancel what she calls the "annoying" thing (not sure if she ignores the query or just cancels the receipt) I commented at her blog and she has comment moderation in place. My comment was not published. I am confused as to why, because I asked a good question which I think should be addressed. Here is my comment:
"Who is hurt when a CD is thrown away? The CD might contain the next Pulitzer. Seriously. And why get the whole package off your screen just because it contains a reading receipt? Who would be the loser if you clicked "cancel" and the material was sent by (for instance) Jack Kerouac? All these rules seem silly and they appear to come from a place of anger and spite. They seem designed to punish the writer, when I would think the agenda should be to objectively look at the project and decide if it is worthwhile pursuing. All the rest seems to be petty horseshit.... even in a very busy and bogged down work day."
I do not understand why my comment would not be published. A blog should have a good mix of commentary, not just comments that are singularly dimensional and flatter the blog author. And let me add that for a literary agent to auto reject queries based on a personal annoyance level seems a bit self-defeating.
Marjorie - I would assume it was the mild profanity in the end about horse do-do that might be the reason it got kicked. While some would be okay with that, they like to appease those that are not.
JMO.
As for your sentiments - I might not necessarily agree with them but that wouldn't prevent me from posting your comment. Although it IS her blog and she can choose to not agree to disagree.
Also, I'm sorry, but if someone is misguided enough to send their manuscript on a CD they probably aren't equipped to be an author in today's publishing world.
We can lament that Dead Author X would have never been published in today's time or recognize that the marketplace is so tough that authors need to use every tool at their disposal, and that includes a recognition of submission guidelines and basic technological competency.
Purple Clover: Her blog is peppered with similar language. I have met JR. I attended a panel discussion here in NYC that she moderated. She names her blog and cautions those of the "faint at heart" that she uses those words at her blog.
I want to add that she may not delete entire queries based on an annoyance level. She may only remove the reading receipt. But nevertheless, she still seems to come from a place that is anger driven.
Pure Fiction said, on 3/21/2009 12:05:00 PM
Mira, thanks for your comment and for letting me know about the publishing rights thing - my aim would be to have a manuscript at the end of it (I'd probably give it at least a year first), but I'm getting such a kick out of writing the blog right now, I think I'll just keep ploughing away.
Your comment about superior technology got me thinking about the Kindle, of course. I love that you love your Kindle. I really do! But I was a library kid. Lived at the library. And my parents never would have bought me a Kindle.
I just hate to see an expensive device be the gatekeeper to reading. If there are no more books, what does that mean for libraries? And what about all those people out there who can't aford the gatekeeper?
Sorry if this has been brought up before. But I figured if there was anyone on the planet would could make me feel beter about a Kindle World, it would be Nathan.
I second that - if you can't follow simple query directions, how are you gonna be at taking an agent's guidance?
macaroni - eventually, libraries will go away or morph into digital kiosks - digital copy will be the standard and there will be multiple gatekeepers and some will be free to rent.
It may be uncomfortable for everybody born pre-1980, but it is inevitable (and now I'm thinking of Team America and Kim Jong Il :)
I kinda think the people born Pre-1980 will all be dead before e-books have completely taken over from paper books. So, you know, discomfort won't be too much of a problem. :)
Damn the Bruins. If they go... I'm pretty much being handed my hat. I thought Collison and Shipp had the experience and would want to go out on a high note, living up to the last three years...
"Actually, a lot of people correctly predicted how those big decisions would turn out."
And a "lot" of people can refer to anything at any time. Right now for instance. You have multitudes of predictions about how things are going to turn out with our current administration. Some of them are going to be right and others are going to be wrong.
Then you are going to have the multitude who predict numerous things and some of them are going to be right.
This is not something new. You can go back to the oracles of Delphi with this argument. The fact remains, If a person does this we don't know how it would have turned out unless we lived through it. We can't just say, "If Lincoln hadn't been elected we would still have slavery." Nothing, absolutely nothing, is set in stone until it happens.
What would have happened if Clinton, Gore or Kerry had been president on 9-11? We can theorize all we want, but it's still a fantasy.
On a literary note, thank you, Nathan, for that link to the McEwan profile. It was long but definitely worth the read. I mean, a great article on David Foster Wallace and another on Ian McEwan... well, that's aces in my book. I don't know how your tourney picks are going, but you're batting fine on the linkage. Quite the slugging percentage on this week's TWIB.
Thanks, Bryan
Anonymous said, on 3/21/2009 2:44:00 PM
"I want to add that she may not delete entire queries based on an annoyance level. She may only remove the reading receipt. But nevertheless, she still seems to come from a place that is anger driven."
I can see how you'd take JR's posts that way; some people do at first.But as a longtime reader of her blog, I don't think she comes from a place that's anger driven at all. It's more of a place that's reality driven. Reality driven with respect to the publishing industry.
No one is arguing that this is anything new, Julie. But I think the examples you've given are more along the lines of conjecture - not prediction.
People who accurately predict an event usually have the information to do so. It isn't just something pulled out of the ether, nor is it an "if - what if" statement. The economist Paul Krugman predicted the meltdown of the housing bubble a couple of years before it happened. He had the numbers and he knew how to glean the information he needed to make a prediction. He didn't just say "Well, if Kerry had been president, this never would have happened." You see the difference?
No economists in the argument, please :) - historically, they tend to predict recessions after they've begun... Too bad Krugman didn't predict the meltdown when Fannie and Freddie were ordered to loosen their lending practices in the late 90s.
We can all point fingers or we can try to Rodney King our way toward a less dismal future (I admit, pointing fingers is more fun for me :).
Don't know if you will answer this question this much later after the original post, but I've been thinking about this all weekend...
On Thursday (3/19), you commented: Yeah, with the tightening marketplace I'm passing on things I might not have a few years back. I'm seeing really good stuff in my inbox, but it has to just be a 110% no brainer, "I'd walk through fire to represent this" type of situation before I can take it on.
In the case where you pass on something that's really good but the market's too tough, do you let the author know how good their writing is? Lots of times, authors submit their work to agents and, after a certain number of rejections and not knowing why their work was rejected, decide to self-publish or publish through a small indie press. I'm thinking that, if an author knew their stuff was really good but just a tough sell in the present market, maybe it would be better to put away the manuscript and resubmit it to agents when the market improves (maybe even starts booming) again. Do you think that's true? Also, if you turned down a really good manuscript only because of a tough market, would you reconsider that same manuscript after the market improved?
I can see how you'd take JR's posts that way; some people do at first.But as a longtime reader of her blog, I don't think she comes from a place that's anger driven at all. It's more of a place that's reality driven. Reality driven with respect to the publishing industry.
Up until about 6 months ago I was the State Manager for a retail chain, and in charge of all of the hiring for my state. Janet's attitude reminds me of how I felt when I was doing that. People made so many mistakes - cover letters addressed to other companies, putting the wrong phone number on their resume, having spam filters that wouldn't let my emails through, resumes in 8 point font that I couldn't read and so on and so on.
I normally received 150ish applications for every job I advertised, and it took ages to go through them. Not to mention that I had a bunch of stores to run as well, my phone was going off every 2 minutes with some problem or customer complaint, and I often had to work in the stores myself if we were short staffed.
So, the way Janet feels resonates with me. I wanted to give everyone a chance, but my feelings were that if you couldn't even get your head around sending through a readable resume addressed to the right person, were you really the sort of person who I wanted working for me? Would you be more trouble than you were worth?
Those feelings didn't come from a place of anger, they weren't petty. If anything it was disappointment that people were shooting themselves in the foot. But at the end of the day, only one person could get each job and it was my responsibility to whittle down the pile until I got there, any way I could. This, I think, is what Janet probably goes through too.
(Man, my comments are getting longer and longer... *looks up brevity in the dictionary*)
This is really one stop shop for news on publishing - very helpful.
I used the other advice - u know not responding to someone's nasties with passive aggressive etc. recently - and actually struck a chord with the person.
This is the most rich,useful and awesome blog - my no. 1
But I think the examples you've given are more along the lines of conjecture - not prediction.--
I'm going to challenge you right now to preserve ten "predictions" from experts regarding Obama's handling of the economic recovery. I want you to find five who think he is dead right and five who think he is leading a charge into further disaster.
I will do the same. In five years we can both toss out whatever "predictions" support our beliefs and say, "See, I told you so."
The problem with predictions and experts is like someone arguing the bible. You can prove anything you want if you use the right excerpts.
"I want to add that she may not delete entire queries based on an annoyance level. She may only remove the reading receipt. But nevertheless, she still seems to come from a place that is anger driven."
Not really.
Janet is pretty blunt, but that isn't the same as anger driven. Unless someone pushes her past her tolerance level.
I eavesdrop on Colleen Lindsay, Janet Rachelle Gardner and some other agents quite a bit on twitter. It's interesting to see the numbers of queries an agent approaches each day. By sheer volume, that means they have to have some sorting guidelines.
Any agent will have a "please read submission guidelines first," posted somewhere. They usually give very plain, concise instructions and, quite frequently, instructions or hints about how to write a query, synopsis, etc.
Nathan's guidelines are very good as are the other agents.
Janet is very explicit about how to submit to her.
If you can't be bothered to adhere to a very plain, detailed set of instructions about how to submit a query letter, what confidence does that instill that you can follow instructions about what a publisher wants you to do?
Think of querying as a test. Can I write a good query letter to go with my awesome novel? Can I follow instructions.
As for not posting your comment, I have my theories, but I will let Miss Janet explain if she feels the need. None of it involves kissing anyone's ring or anything else. It boils down to respect.
I can, and have, disagreed with her publicly before and we still respect each other. Like comedy, a lot of it depends on the delivery.
And, frankly, as much as I admire and respect Nathan and drool over his, "when in doubt, query," mantra, I would imagine he is about sick of my blathering. Sometimes personality also goes into the query process. That's a decision you have to make if you want to express strong opinions in public. Some people aren't going to care much for what you say.
It might just depend on when you submitted your blog comment. I've noticed that it can sometimes take a few days for comments to appear on a moderated blog site, especially over the weekend. It once took quite a while for one of my comments to get posted on an agent's website...turned out his wife was giving birth shortly after I posted! I found my comment posted a week or so later. :)
Bane - this is a little OT, but Freddie/Fannie making loans to poor people was not the precipitating factor in our current financial crisis. Blaming the poor for this is like blaming, I don't know, the roadkill for getting in the way of the semi-trucks on the freeway.
In other news, I think I'm going for the iPhone for my E-Reader - just as soon as Pleco finishes development on the iPhone version of their top-notch Chinese dictionary.
I'd love a response to Marilyn's question about query feedback that rejects, yet qualifies the idea/writing/etc. as promising in other economic climes. I've received one or two responses recently that felt my idea had merit, and it definitely helped shape further querying activity, not to mention gave me some much appreciated warm fuzzies. :-)
I'm wondering if Bush's Random House book about Decision making will include appointing "Brownie" and why (don't want to get too political here) Re the JR blog, I don't know anyone who would take a CD from some unknown and place it in their computer risking God knows what virus. I have seen, on occassion, some AD's saying they will accept art sample submissions on CD and that just seems very strange. I sure wouldn't take the chance on a CD in the mail.
I don't know about Janet in person, but I think her persona is that of the type of 'tough' agent that you'd like to fight for you.
Moderating the space, and controlling what is said, would be part and parcel of that persona. I wouldn't take it personally.
Also, you 'published' the comment here, which is just as good.
For the record, I agree with you. I know that I'm in the minority, but I think over-focusing on the form of the query is really problematic, and agents may be unknowingly passing on something they'd really regret.
Fortunately, with self-publishing and e-books, authors have more options nowadays.
"Blaming the poor for this is like blaming, I don't know, the roadkill for getting in the way of the semi-trucks on the freeway."
It isn't blaming the poor for the Fannie/Freddie fiasco. I sold real estate for years and I specialized in the non-conventional programs for low to medium income families. I also sold my share of country club properties. Financing was my forte. Even so, I would never encourage a buyer to think about purchasing a property they couldn't afford. Most of the time, in the counseling session I encouraged the buyers to think about what would happen if they couldn't work for three months, although six months is preferable. If they can't afford to even be out of work for one month, they have no business buying a house.
The guidelines were already very generous. Un-restricting them even further and threatening banks if they didn't make loans that weren't fiscally responsible was an invitation to disaster.
Regardless of how good it looks in the polls to "help" everyone buy a home, it isn't always the best solution. If you can't afford to pay for it and maintain it, you don't need to buy.
"I don't know about Janet in person, but I think her persona is that of the type of 'tough' agent that you'd like to fight for you."
I do know Janet. She probably got tired of having yet another attack leveled on her practices in her blog by the same person.
Janet is a big proponent of following the instructions. She posts every single detail you need to submit to her. She explains at great length how to submit. I have to assume if someone is submitting things outside the guidelines they either can't read, rules don't apply to them because they are a special little snowflake or they simply don't care enough to spend a minute looking at the guidelines. Any of the above reasons should be an alarm this person is someone an agent doesn't want to deal with.
They have hundreds of queries a week. It's the author's job to apply correctly not the agent's job to correctly divine which person has a blockbuster even though that person has already demonstrated a distinct lack of respect for the industry they are trying to break into.
I linked to several agents in my blog post today. Every single one of them has very concise directions on how to submit to them. Some have gone to the trouble to even post helpful hints about correct formatting, how to write a query etc. I think they've gone above and beyond the call of duty. At some point people need to quit blaming the agents and take responsibility for stupidity.
Agents shouldn't have to post warnings about not using your laptop in the bathtub, but that is just about the point it has gotten to.
I've read Clinton's Memoirs, and while there is a lot of great stuff in it he's also rather, ah, circumspect on certain topic. A very careful handling of some subjects (though much worth reading, still).
I tend not to read political books or most memoirs. I read voraciously about historical figures, but not current politicians. It's rumored Mark Twain was the ghost writer for U.S. Grant's memoir or at least helped him a lot with it.
I would read it simply because I'd like to see the style and I am a Civil War buff. Plus, I think it's just incredibly sad he struggled to write the book even while battling cancer to leave his family some kind of income.
I would read Reagan's letters to Nancy, but I like reading letters.
I don't want to get into a big argument with you, and I think you have some valid points.
Especially about the type of person an agent will want to work with. That can very much come through in the query.
However, I want to point out that if an agent passes on a 'blockbuster' because the author didn't read the instructions, the agent lost out too. Big time.
I know not everyone agrees, including Nathan, but I've said before that not everyone who can write a good book can write a good query. It's more than that. I have a friend who is an extremely good author. But she's not computer savvy. She would be happy just to be able to send a query, but clicking on links and figuring out how to do that might be beyond her.
When I first read her work, I thought to myself, this is such beautiful writing, when she's published, I bet she'll win awards.
In my opinion, it's an artificial gate-keeping device to focus so much on the query. And people on both sides miss out.
Sending the first few pages would give the agent so more information.
I was so impressed with Nathan when he changed his policy.
Marilyn: I know my comment was not published because I know the time it was sent. Comments with time stamps later than mine are there.
And in general: I realize literary agents have clear and specific query guidelines. But, it is the way the guidelines are enforced that reveals an anger level. I feel this is part of a transparent power trip: (sort of a: I have the power to get you published and make you a star. Now bow to me and kiss my behind and maybe I will sign you up) I have yet to see one agent who dislikes his client but yet represents him because of the quality of his work. Who is J.D. Salinger's agent? I bet that was a difficult relationship.
I know there must be many writers who agree with me, but they won't openly admit it because they want to remain off agents' sh*t list and keep their dreams alive. It's a real lemming mentality at agents' blogs. All the comments are layered with flattery and hope. I won't do it. My book is at my blog and I always have the option of self-publishing. I don't give a hoot about the money. I am a retired teacher on an excellent NYC pension. I taught sixth grade for 34 years. I do stand-up comedy in NYC comedy clubs and I can rant on a club stage, so having comments published really doesn't matter that much. I have my vent arena.
As an aside: when I was a teacher I told all my students that their work had merit. I had rules, but I never dismissed work that was submitted on a piece of paper ripped out from a spiral notebook (against my rules) instead of a piece of looseleaf paper (as I preferred). And all the work was placed on the bulletin board.
Literary agents are not elementary school teachers... but guys? You have so many options out there. Why even query an agent who will work you like her own personal marionette. It seems so stress inducing.
Aw geez. I had to delete that. I swear, I get so argumentative. It's a bad, bad habit.
Julie, you seem like an intelligent woman, who is putting a great deal of energy into her writing. That's very cool. I don't want to be all in a fight with you, so if it's alright, I'm going to stop now.
All right, Marjorie. Let's be honest. You have ripped Janet several times on her blog about what an @ss she is. Are you really surprised she finally got tired of publishing your posts?
I'm frankly surprised Nathan hasn't banned me and I don't even attack him.
You insist you are special and don't need to bow down and kiss anyone's ring because you can self-publish. No one asked you to. You don't like writing query letters? Don't write them. You want to send your work on a cd? Do it. No one will read it, even other agents, but go ahead. No one is forcing you to do anything.
I think your first rant at her was because she wants people to send her query letters and you are going to shake your fist at the "man" and be a rebel. Every agent wants query letters. This isn't Janet Reid's personal torture device. You won't hear an ad for the Reid Query Letter Rack complete with thumbscrews and iron maiden. Well, you might, but all agents have the query letter torture device, so hers would have to be special.
This isn't rocket science. If following instructions is so difficult then get in your rebel mobile and fight the system. I'm sure some agent out there somewhere will find your spunk charming. Personally, it comes across as someone who is so bullheaded they are going to be a complete pain to work with.
I've disagreed with Janet on several things, but we still maintained respect while doing so. There's the difference.
I asked her on Book Roast if she would ever consider representing epic fantasy. We had "known" each other for a while then. She said no because she didn't know enough about it to feel comfortable repping it. Fair enough. She's honest.
I already knew she didn't, but I had to ask.
I sent her a query for the SIWC query workshop. Then I ditched her workshop for another one. She sent people out looking for me and said she wanted pages. I thought she was joking. Turns out she was serious. I asked her later what she wanted me to send and she said just send the whole manuscript.
Am I all that and a bag of chips? Hardly. I worked for months on that stupid query. Plus, if you actually read her blog you will notice she no longer requests partials. If your query and sample pages interest her, she just asks for the full.
How many agents do that? If you think that is someone on a power trip, then I'm afraid publishing is going to be filled with demons for you.
Mira, I don't want to debate with you either. The Marjorie/Janet thing goes back a while and this is just the latest salvo.
Janet's a grown woman and can defend herself if she feels so inclined, but I am guessing she's tired of trying to validate the query letter system. There are just so many ways you can try to explain it.
Mira, your friend can submit to several agents w/o need of a computer. If she's use a typewriter and can send mail, there are still several agents who accept snail mail... and, it would behoove her to do some e-learning in this digital generation...
An agent could very well sacrifice the next big thing through his gatekeeper practices, but they don't have time to wade through the query slush pile to do this - if you're a writer committed to pursuing publication, you should adhere to guidelines; once you've made it big, then you can be pretentious and stick up your nose to the establishment.
OL - pretty much what Julie said... Somehow, whenever loose lending practices are brought up, somehow it's blaming the poor - it's not (it's blaming the govt for not doing its job of protecting people from themselves). But that wasn't my point either or even that F/F's loosened practices were the lone cause, though they were definitely a catalyst and to deny that is foolish; yes, there were multiple catalysts - way too many for anybody to predict what the final outcome would be or which domino was the first to begin the cascade with any certainty (as Julie alluded to)... ultimately, my point was: saying "I told you so" isn't a way to resolve anything, which is partially why our govt is inept.
Julie: You miss my whole point. I am not against queries. Queries are necessary for an agent to determine which projects he chooses to represent. I queried Nathan. I was rejected in a professional and respectful manner. I get the process.
It is the way Janet interacts with those who query her. She chastises them and often ridicules them at her blog. I can recall a poor guy who sent her a well-intentioned but offbeat query and she posted it and used it as a vehicle for a "funny" reply. The poor guy seemed humiliated in a comment she posted at her blog.
I understand there have to be rules. It's just how the rules are applied in blog entries that seems to reveal a personal agenda.
So, I sort of feel bad for the writers who are revealed as the rule breakers who are, yes, nameless but to themselves identifiable. To use an often said quote: I feel their pain.
I can recall a poor guy who sent her a well-intentioned but offbeat query and she posted it and used it as a vehicle for a "funny" reply. The poor guy seemed humiliated in a comment she posted at her blog.--
Marjorie you got a burr under your tail about her a long time ago and it just seems like a festering wound.
I missed her posting a query on her blog and using it as a vehicle for a funny reply. She's pretty adamant about not posting queries unless it's Query Shark where people send with the intention of having them posted.
Her latest list of don'ts was don't send your work on a cd. That seems like common sense even if there weren't specific instructions about how to submit.
Telling her you don't want any money for your book. You just love to write. Why do you need an agent and how do you intend to pay said agent if you don't want money?
Don't send queries with receipts. That goes along with don't send snail-mail registered so people have to sign for it. It's irritating and time-consuming.
Nathan's own words.
**If you are interested in submitting a project for representation, please e-mail me a query letter describing your project and the first five pages pasted directly into the body of the e-mail at [email protected]. **No attachments, please.**
Before you submit, Google the agent and the agency to try and find their submission guidelines. If you find it, go precisely by what they ask for. If you do not find any information online, the default procedure is to print out your personalized query letter, send it in the mail to the agent, and be sure and include a self-addressed stamped envelope.**
I'm going to venture a guess you followed his instructions when you submitted to him and didn't send him an attachment, a cd or a thumb drive.
Honestly, I think it's become more of a personality conflict than anything else. Perhaps it would be less stressful if you just stopped following her.
corrected comment: Julie: The blog entry about which I was referring is dated January 27th, 2009 and is called: "Why You get Form Letters."
The guy wrote: "You may be an important person, and I may just be a c-grade Larry Flynt, but don't try to fool yourself into thinking there was anything resembling jest in your response. It was just plain mean. Small-town cop mean..."
I have met Janet. I attended the panel discussion that she moderated on Feb. 18th in NYC at the Jefferson library. I thought the evening was very interesting and enjoyable. When it was over, I introduced myself to Janet and she was charming and personable.
I just cannot stand that blog snark. I am not stressed by it at all. I just don't get why.
I posted two entries from the point of view of one of my characters at your Come in Character blog that you announced in this thread on Friday. What a blast! I had so much fun posting comments from one of my fictional characters. Eventually, I'm going to try posting comments from some of my other characters.
I have to be honest about the blog. On Saturday, I was out for most of the day. I was thinking, okay, this is nuts. No one will be interested, and I'm going to stress out. I'm going to delete it when I get home. Let's kill this thing early.
Then I got home and there were posts! Posts!! It was so exciting.
I was on a forum like that once. It was so much fun. And it was incredible practice for writing. I still use character voices I developed on that forum.
Anyway, sorry to go on, but you caught me at the right psychological moment.
Anyway, thanks for posting and letting me know that you enjoyed it. :-)
You may end up having a blog that grows quickly. Give authors a chance to talk about their writing, or to speak once again in the voice of characters they spent so much time bringing into the world...and, well, you might just never get us to shut up. :) I love that you're going to post questions that characters can answer. This will be so much fun!
I hope you're right. I'd like to recreate the experience that I had on that other forum for other writers (and myself.)
I'm open to any suggestions, by the way. I was thinking of posting questions, but also challenges. (Example challenge: post anti-character. What would your character never say?) Things like that.
I don't want to take up too much space on Nathan's blog, but I do want to thank Nathan. I'd never have gotten even one participant without being able to post it here.
I must echo what Nathan said re the CD. Sending a manuscript and query on CD is a singular mark of someone who doesn't take his or her writing career very seriously.
'Nuff said.
Colleen (who deleted her previous comment because she is apparently unable to cut and paste like a normal human being...)
Re: Janet Reid's blog entry (which is taking up a whole lot of comment space--this one included--for a topic that wasn't even part of Nathan's post).
Some writers may read agents' blogs religiously because they find agents dreamy (Each and every one of them! Oh, squeal!). Or perhaps it's because agents are, as a rule, erudite to the point of titillation. Agent porn. Awesome.
I'd wager, however, that the bulk of agent-blog readers (a good 53.5% or more, by my calculations) are looking for info on how to join the ranks of the forever-not-unpublished. So learn or don't learn, but WTF?
If an agent says "don't send me a CD, which goes against my clearly posted submission guidelines, as it will be tossed out," then save yourself the price of the disc and added postage and just send it off to Al's House O' Agents. Janet Reid doesn't want it, and she's taken the time to spare you that foible.
And the old "a Pulitzer winner could be languishing in the hoards of inappropriate submissions" chestnut is old and tired. Future Puliter winners are either 1) intelligent enough to learn the process, or 2) already (or soon to be) identified, and will find themselves on the radars of professors, journalists, other writers, etc. The genius in mother's attic may exist and may be overlooked, but they existed and were overlooked before Janet posted her "CDs will be thrown out" edict.
Yeah, and when all the bantering bs is set aside and the guidelines are strictly followed by the querying masses... you still have agents who are transparently high on their own sense of power and prove it in the style of their entries at their own personal blogs.
I'm sorry, but I'm sensitive to the whole, "the Government MADE those banks issue bad loans to irresponsible poor people!" argument. I'll agree bad loans were a major factor, but it had a lot more to do with banks that went way beyond any government mandates and issued loans that were out-and-out-fraudulent (and at times usurious) than it did with trying to extend credit to working and middle class people.
I could go on (and on) but I've already taken this way off-topic, so I'll shut up now.
Back on topic, I don't know if sending a query/MS on CD is an example of someone who does not take his/her career seriously, but it certainly is an example of someone who is seriously deluded about the business he/she is trying to enter.
The govt didn't make them, but it encouraged them. And the banks were greedy, too, and irresponsible... The blame can readily be shared across the spectrum, but the govt's got the fastest and biggest horse in the race.
Freakin' brackets - should have gone w/ the s.q. 1,2,3,4 (except for AZ and Purdue it would have been nearly prfct)... Darn you Marquette and USC for your big feet.
Julie, I wouldn't try to find opposing predictions because it goes against the whole point of why I'm trying to find or make the prediction in the first place. I'm trying to be accurate (and thus figure out what I believe), not save that prediction for the future use to say "I told you so."
The importance of accuracy is so that we prevent repeating the same mistakes we made in the past. Yes, yes, I know. History repeats itself. But that's no reason to throw up our hands and claim predictions are useless. I think we still have to try to predict, even if those guesses turn out to be off-base. The trick is to not make the same mistake again and again and again, or worse - never admit you made a mistake in the first place. You can say it's easy now for people to point that out as it pertains to Bush (or any other past president, for that matter), but there were plenty of people who pointed out his mistakes "in the midst of the battle," as you put it. No one listened because they had no political clout, but it turns out they really did know what they were talking about.
Certainly there are times when we gotta just throw the spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks. But that's not a method I'd want to rely on all the time.
Re: Military hindsight being 20/20, and so on - Donald Rumsfeld himself believed he had 20/20 military vision (like night vision goggles I wonder? Special military issue hindsight goggles?). Rumsfeld believed the mistake of Viet Nam, why we didn't "win," was that there were too many casualties, which caused too much protest at home, etc. So his idea was, to cut down on casualty rate (and therefore have a "successful" invasion) by only having what he called a "light footprint" in Iraq - really ramp up the use of high tech, keep down the number of "boots on the ground" (I HATE that phrase - also "embedded with the troops," "light footprint," militaryspeak, I hate it, hate it) - less boots, less casualties, voila! we can stay there forever! Also reason for policy of no photos of soldiers returning in caskets.
The point being, generals (Secretary of Defenses, etc) are constantly making judgments about past wars and drawing conclusions, which they then apply to future wars. Do they always agree? No. Were there military people who BEFORE the troops even invaded, saying the "light footprint" theory (and it is a theory) wouldn't work? Yes. Were they listened to? No.
So it's not as simple a division as the military on one side and "newspapers" on the other. As well, the US mass media was busy banging out what they called (another bit of ugly militaryspeak) the "drumbeat of war" for Iraq - all a matter of public record, not opinion.
I look forward to a number of books dissecting what went wrong in Iraq - and also books that link "philosophically" the Iraq and Wall Street disasters. Here's a link to an interview with Naomi Klein, author of "The Shock Doctrine":
Finally, here's how I understand the "great mistake" Robert E. Lee ought to have been referencing -
[W]e made a great mistake in the beginning of our struggle, and I fear, in spite of all we can do, it will prove to be a fatal mistake. We thought it was okay to own other human beings. --Robert E. Lee
Hello Nathan. Soo off the post topic, but I thought you may be interested in this weekend's Authonomy happenings, as I am sure we are all interested to see where the brave new world of internet slush piles is heading.
A group of gamers following a guy who calls himself Klazart, flashmobbed the site. He is backed by 880 people, and on 233 watchlists. He is now ranked nineth. Not bad considering he only posted his ms on the 19th. Of course the flood managed to jam the site and create an enormous uproar.
I have heard of flash mobs being used as cheap promotion for books, but this is the first time I have heard of it being used for an ms. I've been oblivious to this whole gaming thing. I can't help but wonder if bloggers with large fan bases won't follow suit and swarm other sites. Just pondering what kind of worms are in that can that has now been opened.
I sort of hate to give this more attention taht it has already received over at Autho, but I think essentially the meat of the issue is: Will a large fan base and potential sales triumph over quality writing. You can't have more than 900 fans willing to take the time to sign up to a site in support of you and not garner some attention, while brilliant works float in the oblivion of higher numbers. Thank goodness there is still the traditional route, which looks a lot prettier over at Autho this weekend.
Enough rambling. Just thought there were some implications here you may be interested in.
[W]e made a great mistake in the beginning of our struggle, and I fear, in spite of all we can do, it will prove to be a fatal mistake. We thought it was okay to own other human beings. --Robert E. Lee
Ah, I love it.
Perhaps you would like to know the truth?
The last civil war generals to own slaves were...union generals. William T. Sherman for one who didn't free his until late in 1865, months after the end of the war.
Of course, the emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in the south not the north so they didn't need to.
There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. --Robert E. Lee
And in the same letter he wrote in 1856.
Is it not strange that the descendants of those Pilgrim Fathers who crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual liberty of others?--Robert E. Lee
Lee advocated not only freeing slaves, but also that the slave owners should educate them so they could properly support themselves once freed. Lee wrote more than one editorial before the war about slavery and how he felt it should be abolished. He freed his wife's slaves, which had been inherited with her plantation, in 1862.
Is it kinda getting a bit late for u? or are you suggesting writers are like slaves? Come on then thats not fair, slaves are wanted!
..and what was this blog post about again!
Anonymous said, on 3/23/2009 9:36:00 AM
'The taking of Pelham 123' sounds like a v powerful title. Intriguing. Best wishes!
Anonymous said, on 3/23/2009 10:25:00 AM
I read your comments on the link you provided on self publishing review and your honesty and dedication to books and authors is touching. I was really moved by some of your statements there. I wish you so so sooooo very well!
But then why did Robert E. Lee head the Confederate Army? That's kind of a sticking point for me, regardless of his personal views and behavior. I mean there are tons of examples throughout history of military people aiding and abetting injustice...for all the militarily "right" reasons...
Don't know if such a book has been written yet, but I'd love to see an alternative history novel about Robert E. Lee changing his mind and heading on up North to help the Union Army defeat the Confederate Army. You could call it, "The Liberation of Robert E. Lee." It could start out he's looking in some mirror in some hideout in New York City (he hasn't made his presence known to the authorities yet), and he says: "Haven't felt so good in years."
Anonymous said, on 3/23/2009 11:01:00 AM
Robert E. Lee stayed with his home state of Virginia, Arlington National Cemetary was once his home...
But then why did Robert E. Lee head the Confederate Army?--
He was asked to command the union armies and considered it. However, he loved Virginia and could not turn against his family, home and friends. He did not accept the position in the Confederate army to maintain slavery. The states seceded over states rights, slavery was a secondary issue.
The point remains, your amended quote was completely against what and who he was.
My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.--Abraham Lincoln to Horace Greely
Lee was not the only one who loved his home and country.
I'd love to see an alternative history novel about Robert E. Lee changing his mind and heading on up North to help the Union Army defeat the Confederate Army.--
As I said in the other post. Lee was offered command of the Union army and declined. He was an officer in Texas when the war broke out. All but one well-known Civil War general served in Texas, so they were friends and fellow soldiers who mostly chose to defend their homes and families.
I'm with the majority here...your blog is a terrific source of news, and positive to boot. Now, is that enough flattery so that when I sent my submission, it'll get right to the top of the pile? :-)
Seriously, no flattery needed here. Great stuff. I read this blog at work, too...(!) Only in free moments. Honest.
Janny
P.S. Verification word: "urdst." Love it. Sounds like a description of Monday. "It's an udrst day here on the job..."
W]e made a great mistake in the beginning of our struggle, and I fear, in spite of all we can do, it will prove to be a fatal mistake. We thought it was okay to own other human beings. --Robert E. Lee
Wanda, that was your original quote. Now if you want to automatically assume anyone from the south supported slavery and everyone from the north opposed it, that's a pretty erroneous assumption.
Lincoln said he would do whatever it took to preserve the union, including not freeing one slave and Lee said he could not bear to rise up against Virginia. Perhaps there was a bit more love for their homes and country then, I don't know. However, inserting your comments about him supporting slavery was wrong.
Regardless, even those Lee's views are well documented, I doubt you will change your mind so I am not going to waste my breath. I would just suggest in the future not putting words in a person's mouth that are completely contrary to character.
If the naysayers are right about Kindle and book sales, Canada is the only place on the planet real paper novels will be sold.
I personally say "ow" every time I say "about". Despite the lies promulgated in Canadian Bacon! That was the worst documentary ever.
On a serious note, plastic production and disposal is a serious ecological problem too. (Though, for what it's worth, I think it's quite possible that Kindles are ecologically superior in the end tally. But the whole damned if you do and damned if you don't is sort of sad)
Nathan,
Could you check your link for all you need to know about comp titles? It's taking me to the Kindle is going global.
Thanks.
Nevermind. I opened a new window and I linked fine. Have a great weekend!
eWaste is why I still have my original Game Boy. Although if the world went crazy Day After Tomorrow style, I guess I couldn't burn my ebook reader to keep warm. So mass market paperbacks, here I come!
Kindle, schmindle. I love my Sony.
Ink, I just asked the three other Canadians present to say about. Definitely boat free. ;)
I'm boat free and boot free... it's all about the ow.
Actually, as it happens, whenever I've travelled out of the country people have always, and invariably, mistaken my Southern Ontario accent for Californian. Though whether my accent was a Sacramento Kings fan I don't know.
Karla -
I'm looking at ereaders for Christmas, would you recommend the Sony?
I wonder if your government can policy the regulation though, how can they verify bloggers who get stuff for free?
Bargain with the Devil
Stick to making fun of what's really Canadian eh, maple syrup and the Sasquatch! I nominated the Sasquatch as the superhero for writers.
Check out my funny blog post at:
http://janmarkley.blogspot.com/2009/10/sasquatch-superhero-for-writers_08.html
Cheers, Jan
Mira,
I’d say you have a distinctive voice. I keep meaning to mention this – Did you know that Rachelle Gardner wrote an entire blog about a statement you had made on Nathan’s blog? Check out her blog for September 29, 2009>. You’ll love it!
Nathan, I understood it to mean journalist were already being paid by the newspaper and hence the reader would understand they were receiving some compensation for their musings. That, and it might have been pick on bloggers week.
Mira,
Oooops, let me try that again. It wasn’t for September 29. It was Rachelle Gardner’s blog for September 28, 2009. Enjoy!
JEM -
I've had my Sony 505 for about four months. Yes, I do love it, and I would recommend it. All of the features are good except for the price (eek!) and the odd pdf file that comes up kind of screwy, but I still give it two thumbs up.
And, I have bought WAY more books since going digital. I love being able to buy a new book at 2 a.m.
A can of worms that can swallow Idaho?
Is it Canadian?
You can't forget Poutine, Jan. Do you know it's made it's way down to New England? Great stuff.
The Dystel post was good and the idea of Hollywood thinking.
I don't understand why journalists were left out of the FTC ruling either. Weird.
Great recap of the week's publishing news as usual, Nathan. Over at my blog, http://annerallen.blogspot.com,
the I Heart Nathan Bransford Club is trying to decide what to call blog followers. Jan Markley also mentioned in her funny blogpost that "followers" sounds way to Evita-ish. What about calling your blog peeps "Bleeps"?
So, I'm Canadian, and I'm confused. What's the "aboat" thing? Is this another version of the "aboot" myth?
I'm Canadian and am *about* to blow this about thing WIDE open. My father tells me we can attribute the tightness of the way we say house, about, and out on the French. Which makes us sophisticated rather than backwoods, no? (It's what I tell myself.)
As for Celine Dion, again, we're sorry.
Nathan, it's not nice to diss your neighbors across the border.
There are some very nice benefits to being north of the 49th parallel, but that's our secret.
Next time, think about Neil Young, Wayne Gretzsky, Diana Krall, & Dr. David Suzuki. Quite a different set if you pick the best, not the most humourous.
I mean - c'mon.
Hey, Canada, you may not have the Kindle, but you have universal healthcare...
Other Lisa,
And boy do I like it... I get to keep my house! Super duper.
Tish,
The Dion apology cracked me up.
Where is the Hills recap and how the evil Kristin has glommed onto Justin Bobby?
Smooth talker Spencer rented a house without his wife's knowledge and kicked a 4 yr. old neighbor cutie out on his keds and basically said "see you never!"
You've got to love that show because you just can't make this stuff up.
Or can you ...
We can't afford the Kindle up here in Canada. We're spending all our money buying up US real estate...
And we gave Celine to you years ago, so there! :-)
Anonymous Internet Coward said... America = Canada's Beard.
Hey, you're the home of the beaver.
One of the reasons, btw, I love Canada.
annerallen said...
I Heart Nathan Bransford Club is trying to decide what to call blog followers.
How abowt: Brans Flakes ?
Nathan Yells ?
Marilyn, that was really cool of you to link that. Thanks. But then, you're very cool in general. :)
I did see that post - I felt flattered (and relieved) that Rachelle thought it was funny. But then, Rachelle is also a very cool person. I admired what she said in that post alot. :)
I'm not giving up my advocate's voice. Not at all. I just want to advocate in a way that isn't hurtful and targeting. I feel very sorry about that part of it.
Knock Canada all you want, it is still really big, and that's what counts. Also, they make good candy.
Though I can't see why there wouldn't be Kindle in Canada.
So Nathan,
in order to make up for the huge disappointment of not being Kindled up here in the Great White North, you should declare this Canada month and only accept queries from the Kindle-free folks and offer them all deals so we can publish books for our countrymen. How's that for a captive market?
Mira,
I think most people remember you by your humor. Your humor is hilarious. You really gotta write that book. Maybe take individual topics like comedians do, make them chapters, and - voila! - humor book that everyone can enjoy. :)
Marilyn, thank you.
Your encouragement means alot. Really, truly. Thanks. :)
I have the concept for the book, and some of the characters. I write it in my head sometimes. Maybe during winter break, I'll knuckle down. :)
I'm happy to hear that your work is almost ready to go! You work hso hard. I admire that. And I appreciate your comments here alot. :)
Oh. Since we're in chat mode, I do want to say something very important to say to Nathan. Nathan, you mentioned in your Twitter that you like In N Out Burger. Guess what I learned at Grad school today? Did you know that In N Out has a special, secret menu? Here's a link to SOME of them: http://www.in-n-out.com/secretmenu.asp. But not all! There's also a neopolitan shake (all the flavors combined), chili fries. Cheese fries. And the all important chili/cheese fries. Very exciting.
I highly recommend grad school. You learn alot.
thanks, Marilyn. :)
Hi, Mira,
Glad to hear you have your book concept and some of the characters planned. Awesome!
Hey Nathan,
I'm a long time reader first type poster kind of deal, I love your weekly updates. Through following links from places you linked I found out about this iStorybook application for the iphone about picture books for kids.
I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on the possibilities of Kindle or other publishing houses getting the idea of making e-readers for kids in the near future? I've got a lot of nieces and nephews who would probably love something like that. (I'm not sure if you do Q and A here but I didn't think it was important enough of a question to e-mail.)
Anyway keep up the great blog!
The Kindle is skipping Canada because the beer is so horrible there.
You wound me, Ryan, you wound me.
Canadian beer is obviously superior. Unless of course you like beer flavoured water...
:)
e-books for the DS? Awesome. Now there's a chance that my nephews will read a book for (gasp!) fun!!!
"Aboat?" Maybe in Newfoundland. Although we Canadians get the shaft more often than not, eventually the Kindle will come. Good things to those who wait and all that. Come to Canada and see eh?
I may have the wrong information, but I heard that the whole blogging rules thing came up/ went down after the Pittsburgh protesters were being shepherded away by bloggers/social networkers/twitterers from the police and other blockades recently.
Thus- the applause for all things facebook in helping protesters in Iran became a nono in Pittsburgh and the gov was going to tie new rules and regulations onto the Internet fastened onto an "advertising concern." Police those bloggers and social net-workers.
("Oh dear," she said, running away with her constitution twittering between her fingers.)
Anybody have more accurate or other info than this?
(word verification: undideb as in undi-deb or undi de bed)
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/
20091007/2149146455.shtml#comments
interesting article and comments on FTC freedom of speech
Seems you have a lot of Brans Flakes (great name GhostFolk.com) from Canada.
Canada month! I love it, Anne-Marie!
Love the links!
Ink, "beer-flavored water"? Your information on American beer is happily out of date - submitted for your approval - a few top beers.
Especially here on the West Coast - American beers are amazing!
Other Lisa,
If you send me a free case of each for sampling I may concede your point...
There is beer in my novel.
Real beer.
I haven't gotten a free sample (yet).
Should I be watching for the FTC?
Ink, while that would be out of my budget, I will happily take you on a pub crawl, should you make it down south to California...
word verification: butsorri (!)
The anonymous guest writer at The Rejectionist has a fantastic sense of humor. Here’s an equally humorous and worrisome article on Forbes, How Billionaires Control Our Lives. And here’s the recent Forbes List of the 400 Richest Americans. It includes quite a few people running the publishing industry. Many of them individually own quite a few media corporations. Some have lost a couple million dollars, but are still worth billions of dollars. I don’t think any of them are interns or publishing assistants. I also don’t think that so many publishing jobs needed to be cut to preserve the large numbers of billions of dollars at the top. Just sayin’.
Other Lisa,
I shall start hitchhiking now...
Wasn't it Miriam, not Jane, that posted over at JDLM?
Whoops, yes, sorry for the error.
Dear Mr. Bransford,
All this publishing stuff is fine and dandy, but what about the rice harvest update?
No Photo?
dylan
dylan-
All finished!
Nathan,
This feels a little like Fate kicking a team when it's down.
bryan-
It's worse. He injured himself when an exercise ball popped. AN EXERCISE BALL.
What are the odds in Vegas on that one?
Wonder what's next... wet towel injury? Jacuzzi malfunction?
Best sports injury ever...David Wells tripped over a bar stool and cut himself. The flip-flops he was wearing were a contributing factor...
This isn't the first time a Kings player has had a bizarre injury. One of their players had to miss time in 1991 because of tendinitis due to playing Nintendo too much.
I have contest ideas, and no twitter. You can delete if you don't want them on this thread. You never have to credit me for ideas, btw, now or in the future, not attached. Just flattered if you use one.
Okay, here are some contest ideas:
* Prompts (a sentence, photo, a topic.)
* A fun type of prompt is where you list several words, and people need to make a paragraph out of it.
* Genre wars (dueling paragraphs, humor vs. tragedy; literary vs. commercial; YA vs. Adult. Pick the top of each, and then pick the top of the two. Does that make sense?)
* Group story; top contribution(s) win. That's a fun one.
* Debate a topic: most compelling argument(s) win.
* Ideas: For example: most useful idea to help the publishing industry wins. I like this one. :)
* Pitches. People might be nervous about this one b/c of theft, but probably shouldn't be.
* Just do the first paragraph or dialogue one again. Those were fun.
* Or. Last paragraph contest. Or genre paragraphs - most inspirational, sad, funny, etc. Or descriptive paragraph.
Okay, that's it for now. A contest sounds fun. :)
The Mark Cuban article too funny.
Nathan - I'm going to delete that in alittle bit.
One more idea - a plot contest. Prompt, and then people come up with a plot arc.
Saw your tweet for contest ideas. I had one recently that drew almost 100 entries. Contestants had to leave in comments book title suggestions (with genre) to go with photographs posted. Great fun!
I came, I read, I wandered off shaking my head.
Word Ver: pester - Ain't gonna touch that with someone else's ten foot pole.
It's pronounced "aboot" in some parts of the country. In my day job as a tech trainer, I've had to face many an American audience. They have no problem with my "about," but find my "route" ("root") hilarious. I don't find Quebecois separatists normally funny, but Celine Dion is a punch line all by herself. Hockey is religion, so be careful what you say. As for objects of hilarity, we've also given the world Howie Mandell, so that pretty much balances things.
Ghostfolk--I love "Brans Flakes."
Um, totally not related to weekly roundup, but I saw this in the New Yorker today and thought of you:
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2009/10/19/091019sh_shouts_weiner
:)