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You can add me to the list of people who sold a first book without knowing anyone in the biz.

[:: chomps a freeze-dried mangosteen ::]
[:: thinks of you ::]

(I’d like to take this time to squee like a 14-year-old over the appearance of Cherie Priest.)

SQUEEE!

(Thank you for your patience.)

The phenomena reminds me a bit of an interview with the Traveling Wilbury’s a couple of decades back. At one point someone asked Bob Dylan (Bob Dylan!) a question and his response was something like: “Dude, Roy Orbison (Roy Orbison!) is in my band! How much does that rock?” That’s pretty much how I feel when I check my email and see stuff from Jane Yolen, or Kris Rusch, or Tim Powers. “Dude, I’ve got email from author X! How much does that rock?”

Camille: Hello! And color me flattered by your squee The thought that anyone, anywhere, squees over me … well, it makes me want to squee, is what it does.

I know exactly what you mean about the whole “books I love were actually written by people!” thing. When i think that books like Looking for Alaska, Suitte Scarlett, and lots of other books i love so much were written by humans, like me, pretty much blows my mind.

Cherie: Of course there is squeeage!

You have a toilet category XDDD
sorry, that was my random realization of the day.
I pretty much agree with everyone else–it’s so cool to not only be published, but also know other awesome published people…we get jealous

I am curious… what is the story of your living in New York and Sidney? Do you spend half a year here and half there, or..what?

OMG Justine and Cherie KNOW EACH OTHER!!!

(I couldn’t resist. :-D)

I discovered “Not Flesh Nor Feathers” and Eden Moore very recently, is why I’m so excited. (Also, I discovered the Jim Butcher oeuvre on the same day. It was a most excellent day.) I am honored to provide the squee.

Hey, I wonder if another reason we don’t think of authors knowing each other is that we “know” them mostly, and most intensely, through the worlds they create, and thus sort of think of them as inhabiting those worlds, so to speak? Maybe subconsciously we’re thinking how cool it is for these alternative universes to be colliding with one another.

…But it surprises me HUGELY that I am making a living as a writer and therefore I have many writer friends. I constantly have to pinch myself. How on Earth did I get here? Please don’t let anyone take it away!

That fear is real: many writers don’t make a living at it for their whole lives. It takes a long time for most of us to get published (took me close to twenty years) and then once you are published there’s no guarantee that your books will keep selling.

This makes it sound a little as though you think that if you quit writing, or quit selling, you couldn’t be friends with writers any more.

And while you say that writers aren’t special people, there’s still, in any literary community, something special about getting to be friends with writers. There are certainly times at sf conventions when the writers are all gathered in a huddle, and only a few very lucky, favored fans get to hang out with them — and then only until it’s time to go to dinner. This may simply be because the writers are going off to talk shop together, but since the fans want to become friends with the writers, and the writers have a lot of people clamoring for their attention, there’s a permanent imbalance. Writers may not be special people, but fans treat them like special people.

I try not to fall into that trap any more — after all, there are many, many talented, interesting people who are not writers and who are easier to approach and talk to. I don’t think it’s good for me to behave as though I’m lesser being. And I doubt that many writers like being surrounded by fawning supplicants.

Do I sound crabby? I’ve had an ear infection that’s just starting to get better after three weeks: of course I’m crabby.

[…] trying to get published for about ten years. YA author Justine Larbalestier said that it took her close to twenty years to get published (and look at her success, now). It takes a long time, it’s wearing, can eat […]

ritsy
swanky
preppy

off the hook

snotty
fancy-schmancy, but mostly if the speaker is Jewish

but honestly, if your protagonist is anywhere near NYC, “one of those obnoxious private schools” should get the job done.

I don’t see “off the hook” going with exclusive, expensive private school, honestly. I always thought “off the hook” referred to something cool and wild and expensive, not the exclusive old-money private schools.

If Posh Spice has made it in America, then I think you can use the word “posh” in your manuscript. It does the best job of conveying what you mean.

Oh. Um, well, I’m USian, born and raised, and I wouldn’t have thought “posh” was out of place. But, I pick up a lot of words from books without knowing it, which leaves me speaking a slightly different (and very mish-mashed) dialect than most.

I think Gina Black’s suggestion of “preppy” would be the next closest thing, although that gets used an awful lot. (”ritzy” and “swanky” have slightly different, though similar, connotations for me.)

~Mary

I dunno that “posh” doesn’t work. We said that, growing up in the midwest, though it’s true that a teenager would’ve been more likely to say “stuck-up”, “snotty”, “swanky” or “preppy”. And we often used “fancy-schmancy” in my family, and I never knew a Jewish person until high school, and then it was just the one girl. I had no idea that was a Jewish saying.

“La-di-dah” is another one, though that’s for a person, not a thing.

“Hoity-toity.”

I’d personally see nothing wrong with the word “posh”, but I try not to speak normal USian. WHOA, WE CAN USE CAPITAL LETTERS? *abuse*
Here, private schools are already associated with snobbishness, but you could just italicize the “private”. Oh, she goes to a private school.

i have heard “posh” before. i don’t know that you’d be that far off using it. although, i don’t think of it as having especially negative connotations. and the only reason i ever found out what it meant was b/c of posh spice.

but also:
-snobby
-stuck-up
-fancy schmancy (maybe i’m weird, but i use it)
-ritzy (also doesn’t have especially negative feeling, to me)

(I originally posted this on the LJ syndication, but I found out you don’t actually get those, sorry)
“Fancy schmancy” is something people I know, especially in my family, use a lot. “Hoity toity” is another, but not used as often.

I wouldn’t use “classy” because it generally means something well-refined or well-mannered, not just rich.

Some others you might want to think about: snotty; snobby; stuck-up; preppy

I’m from the midwest and the term we used was ‘chi chi’ (pronounced shee-shee).

It’ll also depend on context: I think “posh” is much more of a general-use word, whereas a person can’t be ritzy and a thing can’t be a snob.

There’s also the question of whether you mean patrician-type of upscale, or obnoxious-display type of upscale. The latter is definitely flashy, but the former is not.

(I love big letters! I’ll take all the letter-embiggenation I can get!!)

I second, third, whatever, preppy.

Where’s the story set? If it’s in an upper end neighborhood, you could name the suburb and add elite to the end of it.

I am of course stealing this from the tv version of Gossip Girl. The second question is how much snobbery is there? If it isn’t the cool place to be (which I always assumed posh implied), elite may not be the right word, preppy would be closer, as that’s more of a degenerative term.

I think I just made that word up. Either that, or it’s spelled horribly wrong.

In the Pacific Northwest, going with Sean’s suggestion or just using preppy should work just fine…dialect varies from region to region, though, so it really depends on where in the US your protag is coming from.

I don’t hear a USian saying “posh”. “Fancy” (with or without “schmancy” might be your best bet.

blueblood? rich-ass? money? (as in the verb)

“posh” is totally american. i heard it growing up in the midwest, too. my dad used to use it. the word itself is more … posh than “fancy” or “swanky.” the latter two always have a bit of a sneer in them, but “posh,” while self-conscious, and sometimes ironic, isn’t mean.

“classy” is entirely approving, without any humor or irony. and it has a tinge of the low class about it, i.e. class conscious middle to upper middle folks wouldn’t use it.

snobby, for sure.

Justine, I’d just use ‘fancy private school’ or possibly ‘fancy-ass prep school’, depending on the speaker. Speaking as someone who went to one, but had friends who didn’t.

We say ‘Beckham’ now.

That’s a very Beckham school.

‘Posh’ is definitely the wrong word for an American teenager to use. ‘Swanky’ is more American, but teenagers are more likely to say ’stuck-up’ or ’snotty’ or ’snobby.’ Any one of those would, along with the words ‘private school,’ suggest expensive, as well.

I don’t know if this helps as I’m Canadian, not American, but I use “posh” and did as a teenager, too.

As a girl who went to a “posh” all-girls prep school in the US (specifically the Pasadena area of Los Angeles…which is very affluent), “preppy” is the word that got thrown around a lot (not used BY us prep girls, but given to us). I think “preppy” is the closest in connotation to “posh.”

However, I would second whoever “fancy-ass” as I’ve heard that one levelled at me too!

I’m an Australian who’s been living in the US for a few decades (so I’m not a teenager!). My guess for the closest equivalent in adult USian is “exclusive”, but that doesn’t sound like something a teenager would say.

Regional variation is much more common in the US than in Australia. I guess you’re left-coasters, so that would be a fine choice for a locale, as long as the story doesn’t involve people visiting from out of state.

My mother used to always say “tony.”
Posh doesn’t sound out of place to me, though.
“Moneyed” is probably what I’d use. “Swank” rather than swanky, I think. “Pretentious” might do you, too.

I am from Boston and Seattle, now New York.

P.S. My WASP grandmother was Granny. My Jewish one Grandma.

erm, yeah, definitely not posh. posh is a great word, but at least in my experience as a 23 year old girl from the northeast (though i have also lived in the south), no one says it.

i agree that preppy or fancy-ass are the most likely words for a teenager to use. i’ve heard some people say shi-shi, but like another poster said, i think that’s a midwestern thing. i can’t imagine any teenager, anywhere, ever, saying hoity-toity or fancy-shmancy. no offense.
the problem with the the states though, is that the speaker’s class, age, and location (and, arguably [cringe], her race/ethnic group) makes all the difference.

I think “ritzy” and “preppy” are still in use among USian teens; a kid who says “posh” around here would be accused of posing. “Private” in itals, or even “that super-expensive private school” would probably work, too…

Snooty!

“Preppy” is used mostly (where I live) to refer to a style, and depending on what kind of expensive the private school is, that might not apply. (Old money usually isn’t “preppy.” Also, where I live=Minnesota, in case you were wondering.) What I’d say probably isn’t helpful, as I am a basement-dwelling word-nerd, but fancy works.

“Posh” sounds wrong to me, though.

Also! I would just like to add, “fancy-shmancy” isn’t an exclusively Jewish thing. It does come from Yiddish syntax, but anyone can use it. I’m Jewish, but I never have, so.

Er, yeah. This whole comment could be summed up as “it depends on your character.”

Huh? Since when is “posh” not USian? I’m from Minnesota, too, and I’ve been using it since I was a teenager. Plus it really seems like the best word for what you’re going for.

hey! daphne unfeasible has a blog! hurray!

also, i think i’m sticking to lowercase, for old time’s sake. ’tis not really justine’s blog if the comments have caps.

i think posh is perfectly fine. I use it, I hear other people use it and i think plenty of teenagers would know what it means.

i see some suggestions of preppy, but I guess i don’t really see preppy fitting your definition.

but hey… that’s just me.

I’m in New York and we say “posh.” “Ritzy” would convey the same thing, I think, but it sounds vaguely old-fashioned, circa 1920. (I’ve heard “shi-shi” and “shi-shi-frou-frou” in suburban Connecticut, but more as a put-down.) “Swanky” (not “swank”) might have the same neutral connotation. Snooty, snobby/snobbish, snotty — these are all negative. “Exclusive” is a viable euphemism.

“Hoity-toity” is more like “uppity” in connoting an attitude that the person in question ostensibly has no right to: someone getting “above themselves.”

“Preppy” conveys more of a style of dress to me than a lifestyle or social sphere.

“Snooty” and “snot-nosed” are the words we used to describe the local prep school kids and their schools back when I was a teenage peasant. Also preppy, stuck-up and snobby.

Agree with the other commenters that “posh” would be believable. But “swanky” is also great.

and caaf is posting somewhere too! le hurray!

I like “fancy-ass prep school”.

Other people have already said it, but I’d vote for “swank”.

Snobby or snotty or ritzy

I think “posh” is fine. Second choice: preppy. I also like snobby and snooty. Fancy pants?

hmmm…..
well, i, as a sort of wierd person might use the term posh with my friends, joking or something.
alternatives…………
stuck-up? i also approve of preppy—it’s common term i use to describe my school of rich white kids.
i wouldn’t use hoity-toity or the like…i’d see it as more likely to say posh, at least with people i know.

I like several of the suggestions above: “preppy”, “snooty”, “stuck-up” (of people, not the school itself), “fancy” etc. But the one I would use is “rich”. “It must be so easy when you go to a rich private school . . .” etc.

I also like the letter-embiggening thing. Did I miss an announcement?

I’m with E. ‘Tony’. Only because I like the word…but does anyone under say, ooh, forty, use it?

Posh is a great word. “She’s a bit of posh”, for example. Like Jack’s almost-wife in 30 Rock. Sometimes pronounced with a hard ‘o’ for added silliness.

La-di-da always makes me think of Diane Keaton in Annie Hall. And that’s a whole other New York.

prep, preppy

Posh actually works well because of the situation you’re using it in. (LOL I just noticed I have capital letters again! I was like whaaat?!) But otherwise… prep, yeah, I guess.

im a “usian” teenager and i would
saw preppy loaded 9with cash) private school

say* not saw
sorry

i’m from california, and we’d either call it “rich”, “preppy”, “private”, or “those snobby bastards who think we’re from the ghetto”.

personally i’d go with “rich”.

swanky–but i’m from the stone age too.

p.s. i’m from nyc.

posh is fine! don’t listen to scott!

never heard anyone at school use swanky.. but stuck up, preppy, biotchy, snobby.. haha theres a place called snob hill where rich kids but it’s really knob hill

(15 yearold usian here:] )
CAPITOL LETTERS! lol

oh and the only time i’ve heard anyone say posh is if they are british.. or if someone is joking around and add a british accent

so i agree with scott.. maybe just people in the south don’t say it

preppy- or maybe, full of J.A.P.s (Jewish American Princess)?

I go to an all- girls posh private school… I’ve never heard fancy-ass used, but I like it, and if in the Upper East side, those Upper East Side brats?

preppy would work, as would private-school girl, rich kid, or upper-east-sidey.

also, nooooo! i love this haven of all-lowercase. it’s so pretty!

As a US teen I believe posh isn’t very common generally it has the connotation to refer to the UK, cause of those spicy chicks.

I back up the suggestion “preppy”.

Love your blog btw.

I personally don’t see anything wrong with posh……

and I live in Texas. But what do I know. :/

so. did you run out of room for all the capitals you’ve been stealing?

Posh doesn’t work for me, especially if it is a teenager speaking.

Preppy works. Ritzy is okay, but I’m not sure if a teen would say this. Off the hook is nice (and current) but only if the protag thinks the place is great in addition to expensive. But my favorite is j’s ‘fancy-ass.’ I think it would work well from a teen perspective, and it seems very USian.

Snooty

when i lived in the us, one of my jobs was working in a mental hospital for teens. it was fun,especially when i broke my leg and let a bunch of kids hopped up and thorazine and caffiene paint my cast… but anyway, they used the term “posh” quite often, usually with hoity toity hand gestures and noses in air and very faux snooty voices. it was primarily a derogatory thing. as in “of course we will never see britney or lindsey here; we’re just not special and posh and all that crap.” but in my never ending quest to be helpful, i looked in the roget’s dinosaurus, er thesaurus. for posh it said “chic, classy, deluxe, elegant, exclusive, grand, fashionable, high class, lah-di-dah, luxury, modish, opulent, rich, ritzy, smart, swank, swanky, swish, and trendy” i like lah-di-dah.

and i stubbornly refuse to use capitals here.

woot for lowercase!

I say posh and I’m American. Then again, I also choose my words very carefully and consider each and every word to have a different connotation and definition.

My maternal grandmother was just “Grandma”, but my paternal grandmother we all called “Nanie”. I was never quite sure if this was a nickname for “nana” or for her first name, “Jane”.

Whoops! I’m from the midwest — I grew up in Indiana and my maternal grandma lived in IL and my paternal in OH. Of mostly Scottish/ German descent, but waaay back, so probably not relevant.

I am from Minnesota, but my lines of decent are definately forgin- on my Italian side, I called my grandfatther ‘Papa’ and my grandmother ‘Cama’ (pronounced like comma)

On my European side, it was ‘Grandpa’ and ‘Grandma’

grampa and gramma (midwest)

I’m from the northeast, and only ever called my grandparents by their names. All four of them. We’re a formal bunch.

My stepsister, however, who is Maine French, called her grandparents Memé and Pepé, which I gather is common among the ethnic French in this country.

I’m from Michigan. My granddparents were always refered to as Grandma and grandpa.

It isn’t Scottian–my Oklahoma grandmother was Meema! Sometimes Beema. Her husband was Papa Joel.

The other set were mamella (italian for grandmother) and grandpa.

For kenina-chan and me in comment number 2 (we’re sisters, so our background is the same. Unless she’s adopted. :p )
‘nanny’ and ‘poppop’ are the names us grandchildren could call them as babies. (Pretty much chosen because it’s what we called them when we were teensy-weensy.)
‘Grammy’ and ‘zaide’ are on the Jewish side of the family- I’m positive ‘zaide’ is some Yiddish word. ‘Grammy’ is just an abbreviation for grandmother.
Well that covers the ethnic names, the rest just sorta… make sense. You know, until a friend looks at you like you’re crazy when you introduce them to your grandparents.

I’m Canadian, but my grandparents were all German-speaking so both sets were Oma and Opa.

when ever my sister and i see our grand parents, we call them the grands.

or, grandpa and grandma, but sometimes they let us sneak in a g-ma or g-pa, but that’s getting a little too hi-tech for them.

Oh, and I’m from the usa.

From Florida!

Mom’s mom: Grammy
Dad’s mom: Grandma (or gramma)
Mom’s dad: Grandpa

I didn’t know my Dad’s dad, he passed away before I was born. But we usually call him by his name (Milton) or Grandpa.

My grandparents were Polish. Babka was my grandmother and Jadek was my grandfather.
I’m not from Texas originally but live here now, and it’s funny but true - I’ve heard the mee-maw thing from my friends.

I call my maternal grandparents “grandma and grandpa”, and my paternal “nana and papa”.

Shloopy: thanks for the extra info! I still don’t know where and your sister are from though.

Kadie-Wa: which bit of the USA are you from?

PJ Hoover & everyone else who verified “mee-maw”: Part of me is always a little disappointed when it turns out Scott is telling the truth.

Sean: Where are you from?

I’m from South Carolina, and I called my grandmother “nannie”, my grandfather “papa”, my great grandmother “me-maw”, and my great grandfather “pappy”. Weird, huh?

Travis: At this point everything is looking weird to me!

holy crapping hell, 92 comments. i must be very late.

in my immediate family, we seem to call relatives by variations of their first names. my dad’s mom was “grandma jane.” my dad’s dad died long before i was born, but i’d probably have called him “grandpa bill.” my mom’s mom is “neeny” which comes from her name, “jean.” my mom’s dad was “harbo,” b/c he was named harvey.

my mom’s family is from san antonio, tx, and my dad’s from a bunch of states in the deep south, mostly georgia and alabama. (he moved a lot.)

and for the record, i’ve heard “meemaw” before, but i didn’t realize it was just a texas thing. then again, i used to think everyone said “y’all.”

I’m from Massachusetts, USA. My mother’s parents (born and raised in MA, from French-Canadian stock) I called Memere and Pepere (I think that’s the right way to spell it….pronounced “mem-ay” and “pep-ay”). My father’s parents (born and raised in upstate NY) were Grandma and Grandpa. My sister’s children call my parents “Memere” and “Grampy”. (They’re under six. I’m wondering if “grampy” will change as they get older?)

Wow lots of comments
I’m from arkansas and I have a nana, mimi, noni, bobba (means grandma in slovakian), and a grandma
(some are great grandmothers)
but no meemaw. that just sounds weird but i know others who call them that

My names for my grandparents are boring, but my husband and all his siblings (from Pittsburgh, Pa) called his grandmother “Ummy” and his grandfather “Bop-op.”

alice (California girl) calls one grandmother “Grammy” and the other “Grandma Jo.” She also has two aunt Ruths, but that’s another story.

I cannot believe that Scott is from Texas and never heard of “nana” for grandmother. I lived in Dallas for a while and my roomate, who was Mexican American called her grandma on her mom’s side Nana. Actually, we all called her Nana, because she tended to adopt everyone. Another family friend who lives in Arizona calls her Texas grandma (paternal) nana, and her nana’s mamma is GG, Great Grandma. Her Arizona grandma is Grammy. Basically, all the “Nana” grandmas I know are from Texas!

I am originally from the middle east and did not know either grandmother, as my mother was European and her parents were not around and my father’s parents were dead when I was born. Most of my friends called their grandmas Tatteh (pronounced tay-tuh).

i grew up in Sydney and both my maternal and paternal grandmother were called ‘nan’ (…’nanny’ when i was very young!). my maternal grandfather was ‘grandpa’, paternal grandfather ‘grandpop’.

Mum’s parents were Nana and Pop.

Dad’s parents are Amah and Ayeh. Cantonese.

white side is anglo and midwestern us (michigan). grandparents were grandma (pron. “gramma”) and grandpa (pron. “grampa”).

chinese side has very specific relationship names for all relatives so maternal grandmother was “poh poh” and maternal grandfather was “gung gung”. for chinese diaspora families you’ll also deal with the issue of whether they’ll use the chinese standard or the standard of the country/region they’re in. my cousins called my maternal grandmother “grandma sarah.”

I went with grandpa or grandma, either identified by the first letter of their last name, or “you know, the crazy one,” or, “you know, my dad’s/your mom.”

Oddly enough the crazy grandpa is on my mom’s side, and the grandma on my dad’s. It took me twenty years to figure that out.

Chinese here. Call one grandma “mah-mah” (with a flat intonation), and the other “Ah-ma” (sharp intonation). Sounds totally different because they’re from different dialect groups.

I’m from Melbourne. I had a Grandma and Grandpa on one side (although I often copied cousins who added first names to that).

The other side chose Mutti and Papa, due to associating traditional grandparent names with other people and not feeling _that_ old. ‘Mutti ‘comes from Mutter, German for mother - mum and siblings learnt German at school and sometimes called her that. There’s also German on her side of the family.
I’ve never heard of another Mutti, not even when I went to Germany…

My grandmother’s mema as well, but i spell it all one word like that. all the younger cousins in my family call her sta though; it toke her awhile to tell everyone that’s the chezch word for grandma. my grandpa is just that, and on my dad’s side it was oma & opa as they were german.

My husband and I are from Pennsylvania (near Philly). He calls his one grandmother “nana” and the other “baba” (she’s from Ukraine). His grandfathers, as well as mine, were both “pop-pop”. As for me, my grandmothers were “grammy” and “grammum”.

I’m a Jewish guy from Los Angeles, CA - all my grandparents are Polish.

I made up my own names. I was disturbed by the lack of specificity in the terms Grandma and Grandpa. I called the maternal grandparents Ma’sma & Ma’spa. The paternal grandparents were Pa’sma and Pa’spa. Pronounced long, as in Ma & Pa.

I’m finally being drawn out of lurkersville by this post; aren’t regional language quirks interesting?

I spent my first eight years in the middle of Illinois and am of English/Scots-Irish/German descent. As a little girl, I called my paternal grandparents Me-maw and Papa. My maternal grandmother was Nanny; unfortunately, my other grandpa passed away before I was born.

As I’ve lurched into adulthood, Nanny has morphed into Gramma because calling her nanny had started to feel a bit silly.

I’m from Texas, and I called my dad’s mother Grannie, and my mom’s mother Dee-dee (which was her nickname). My husband, who’s from upstate New York, called his grandmother nana.

(and for the record, i called one grandfather Granddad and the other was Bad-bad–a nickname that resulted when one of his grandchildren was chewing him out and called him a bad-bad-granbad.)

Not that you need another answer but I’m from the UK and I called my grandmothers Nana when I was younger and Nan when I got to my teens. Grandfathers were Grandad.

I’m from Vermont, from a mostly french-canadian family. On one side, we use “papa” and “mamie”(which we say like eisenhower, but i’ve heard other, frencher families say it more like may-may, or with aigus over the e’s). and on the other side, we say “pa” and “ma”. (that side is much more strongly a farming family–i don’t know if that’s related, but it sounds so kansas. my partner is philadelphia-italian, and they say “grandpop” and “grandmom.”

I’m from Texas

grandmothers were grandma and granny
grandfathers were grandpa and paw-paw
“mee-maw” was used heavily by friends and neighbors, though.
my cousins’ children call their grandma “mimi”

I’m Middle Eastern (Assyrian) and I call my grandmother “nana” too!

I’m fron pakistan but i live in england. i never saw them but when i refer to them, i say nan or nana and granddad, granddaddy or grandpa.

Mee-maw!!!

Grandma= Gammy or Gam

Didn’t have a grampa, but I understand my older cousins called him something that sounded like pop-aw

I called my grandparents Grandma and Grandpa (English and class conscious). My kids call my parents Granny and Grandad (English) and my husband’s side Nana and Grandad (West Cork Irish)
My dad called his dad pop which I always thought was strange.

My grandmothers were both “Grandma,” my grandfathers were “Grandpa” and “Granddad.” I grew up in Oklahoma, where I knew a few kids who called their grandmothers meemaw.

Someone I work with is a grandmother and her grandkids call her MeeMee. I’ve never heard that one before.

Oh, sorry this is a little delayed, but I’m from Minnesota.

Cheshire (North West UK) and I called both mine Nana, as did my wife who is from the South East of the UK

this is so interesting. my grandson is 19 months and we’re still not sure what I should be called. we’ll have some ideas now.
my latest have been yia yia (greek) marj or wench.

i am from the appalachain region of North carolina. My grandmother is mammaw and my grandfather was pappaw (pep-paw). This seems to be fairly common in the region and i have heard it is related to the scots-irish descent of most of the residents.

barb (#119): yia-yia is a fantastic grandmother name. That’s what I called my grandmother (because we’re Greek), and my grandfather was called papouli (papou is also common, but papouli seems a more affectionate derivative). I also lived for a long time in New Orleans, and noticed there most kids call their grandparents maw -maw and paw-paw.

my husband is from kentucky and called his maternal grandparents “mah-maw” and “pa-paw” (with a broad first a like cat). they were scots-german. his paternal grandmother was known as “mimi.” they were mixed british isles descent. i am a new york jew and boringly called my grandparents grandma and grandpa. but my great-grandmother was bubbe.(yiddish.)

my own grandparents were boring: both sets were just “grandma” and “grandpa” (with last name added, if necessary, for clarity).

however, my wife had a grandma and a nanna, to keep them separate. The nanna was of danish extraction in New Jersey, for what that’s worth.

(my own kids have two grandmas, one “poppy” and a grand-dad.)

[…] so much for all the responses to the grandmother question. Fascinating! Plus I might use some of your responses in my next book, which has surprised me by […]

I had a Nanna and Grandad, a Noni,
a Grandma and a Grandpa.

Belatedly… my family is from New York and New England. I had a Grandma and Papa, and a Grammy and Pop. My son has a Grandma, a Grammy, and Zayde, and his grandparents in Sweden are Farfar and Farmor (literally “father’s father” and “father’s mother”).

Missed this before–

My brother and I call our grandparents “Grandma” and “Grandpa”. Both sides of our family has been in eastern Canada for a couple generations and before that our background is various shades of British (English/Scottish/Welsh).

I’m from New York/New England, with the usual WASP-y inputs (French, German, Scots, English, Dutch…). My mother’s parents were Grandma and Grandpop, father’s Grandmother and Granddaddy. My neighbors here in VA call one grandmother Mee-maw and the grandfather Pa-paw (or Papa?). That side of the family is from Ohio, with mostly WASPy forebears…

On my mother’s side grandmothers are either ‘Nana’ or ‘Nanny. I’ve wondered if that was a Danish thing, a Danish-American thing, or a Californian thing…

I currently live in Dallas Texas. Both sides of my family have been in Texas a few hundred years (can trace back to early 1800’s) and my grandmothers are Nanny and Nana, my great-grand parents are Ma-maw and Papaw, and my mother goes by Noni. These are all well used names through the generations. One side of the family is predominately English and the other is predominately Welch, but we are completely Anglo-Saxon muts.

Justine: America.

I make every one of those mistakes…
Look on the bright side: At least you don’t have to stay up until 11 o’clock at night studying trig.

I hope your nose heals quickly. No writer deserves paper cuts! Hint: Wear gloves when handling paper.

I think writing a book where you are concentrating on getting the story down and editing a book where you are focused solely on the grammar are such different activities that you are NOT ALLOWED to feel like an idiot when your editor makes a grammar catch. If she didn’t, then we wouldn’t have editors.

And shloopy, you try staying up until 3AM with an organic chemistry textbook 10 days before your book edits are due. Life is made of suckage.

Your nose? were you sniffing it?

no! The paper viciously attacked me. Paper is evil.

I figure you are just padding your word count. Nothing wrong with that.

Where else could his thumb have been? I only put thumbs on foreheads…

Perhaps on her nose staunching the blood from a paper cut.

I just got my Thesis draft back from my Advisor and it looks just like that. It left me staring at the notes thinking, “did I *really* type that?” *Face-Palm* I guess that’s why Editors and Thesis Advisors get the big bucks!

Me too — plus I have trouble with unnecessary past progressive tenses. “She was running across the grass …” instead of “She ran across the grass,” etcetera.

I’ve had that happen. the worst is when you sit there for hours and hours trying to find and fix such mistakes yourself, then show it to a friend who, in about ten seconds, finds hundreds that you missed. then I think, “why did I even look? I’m obviously blind, and shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a story!”

luckily, i’m working on a fist draft right now, so that’s much easier…*sarcasm*

~mary

My friend got a papercut on her eyelid the other day. If that’s not an example of the nefarious ways of paper I don’t know what is.

what are you going to to do the paper?

Across…your…nose? Well I guess it can happen.

I do mistakes all the time. is that why there are so many green squiggles under random sentances? huh. I never knew that.

what? nose? no no no. Then he would be doing it wrong. index fingers are for noses.

“My fairy book is very chaste.”

for some reason, that made me giggle.

you are a brilliant author, sometimes however you get so wraped up in a story, you miss some of the minor writing details…

And across the nose? What were you doing with it?

she was looking to see if the words jumped off the page… It was an honest mistake…

I still felt warmth where his thumb had touched.

Can I have your editor?

Could you still feel the pain of where the paper cut had been?

Lisa: Ow! Your mockage is almost as painful as the paper cuts. I’m going to quit writing and become a rabbit farmer. Clearly, it’s the only way . . .

I once got a paper cut on my tongue. The sad thing is that it wasn’t even from an envelope.

how did you get it then hillary! ?

i’m a professional editor as well as an aspiring writer, so i know very well how stupid extremely bright and capable people can sound when their brains go just that little bit faster than their fingers. and picking the nits is always much easier in someone else’s work. it’s not you. it’s the nature of writing and editing (and to prove it, i will reveal that i have found some of the exact same boneheaded errors in my own work that i routinely grouse about in other people’s).

Nothing can beat being a good old rabit farmer.

It’s often not any easier for us editing to catch some of this stuff. it requires concertration not to get caught up in the story and concentrate on these little niceties of language. The second sentence, in particular, could easily roll right by me if I happened to be zoning out a bit. And if you edit all day long, zoning out some is inevitable.

And I will second the comment above: I find many of these faults in my own first-draft writing when I read it over later. The act of spewing out what you’re trying to say comes for a whole different headspace than editing.

Editing and writing are very different skills and you aren’t allowed to feel bad about changes that your editor makes. Every editing client I’ve ever had makes those kinds of errors, which I catch. And when I write, I make the same errors myself–and i often need another editor to catch them. So no, your editor isn’t necessarily a better writer–she/he’s an editor. that’s why they get paid the big bucks (ha)! tis much easier to see problems in other people’s work now isn’t it?

I’m sure your new book is awesome. Can’t wait to read it.

I have such difficulty with things like this, “I could feel” and “I felt” give me two different vibes. I suppose they are interchangeable sometimes but to me “I felt” feels like the PC guy is writing it - sterile description of a tactile sensation, whereas “I could feel” feels like the Mac guy is writing it and it will be followed by flowery words describing the emotional response.

I just wish i was at that stage with my current ms! i’ve never been so desperate to finish anything in my life. just wrote the first draft of the climax in a mad 25-page rush and it’s so bad it makes me want to cry or faint. i don’t know which. i don’t think i can bear to read it, actually. i’ll just take what i may have learned from it and do another hopefully less hideous draft.

as for editors, i love what susan cooper said — “we couldn’t live without editors. Copy editors, i’m not so sure.”

ha ha

Mark: There are definitely times when “I could feel” is the way to go. Sadly not in either of the sentences above. I’m not against verbal modality. Is very useful. But too often it creates imprecision and muddiness when that’s not what the writer’s going for.

Laini Taylor: I am on the quadrillionth draft. I wish I was where you are. I am so bored with this novel.

This might sound weird but the word “of” is one that I most over-use. In fact, if I’m looking to tighten up, that little beast is one my eye falls upon with great suspicion. And then, yes, I think–damn–used it again…It’s a little word that pushes a sentence towards the passive voice. Hey, at least you care. That’s gotta be worth something in the end.

“Writing a balanced, beautiful novel, where plot and character and
setting and pacing and narrative structure and imagery and, above all,
story work in harmony and true proportion, is fucking *hard*.”
–Nicola Griffith,
www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030929/griffith_interview.shtml

Killer writer, nice person. Look her up sometime when you’re in Seattle. You’ll like her, or I’ll eat my socks.

Cheers — Pete Tillman

Hey Justine,
don’t worry, I say sorry all the time, and my friends get so mad. i’ve even had complete strangers at work tell me that I say sorry too much. oh well. what are you going to do?

1. when i was learning german I had to make myself say “excuse me” rather than “I’m sorry”, e.g. when trying to get someone’s attention.

2. You’re right that this is far more prevalent among u.s. southerners than those from elsewhere. i noticed this when I lived in new york (i grew up in alabama, tennessee, and texas), and it comes through loud and clear when you encounter northerners in southern settings (e.g. at south by southwest). Not that the northerners are always brusque or unfriendly, just that they don’t put so much energy into the nicey-niceness.

Rebecca: I don’t feel remotely sorry about saying sorry. It’s not me—it’s cultural conditioning!

Yes, it’s true. You are not alone. The sorry disease also plagues those of us with southern (or, in my case, southern-ish) U.S. backgrounds.

A friend of mine once made me start a “sorry jar.” Had to put a quarter in every time I said it….

I learned about this “phenomenon” in one of my university classes dealing with business and communication. One reason women say sorry a lot to compensate for assertive behaviour and avoid coming off as ‘masculine’ or worse, a bitch. The other reason, which, for some reason, I can’t word this early in the morning, is something about needing forgiveness for mistakes or errors (Men don’t do the asking for forgiveness thing, they just assure they will fix whatever problem it is).

Not to say it all belongs to men and women as separate categories, etc etc. I’m just relaying what I was taught X.x

An exboyfriend and I decided, after I drove him crazy with too many sorries, that there are two kinds of sorry: sorry #1 (sorry, my fault) and sorry #2 (sorry, that sucks). Every so often i still have to specify which one i’m using so people don’t get annoyed about sorries!

A conversation I keep having all the time with someone or other who is having a shitty time in general right now:

me: “I’m sorry.”
them: “Why did you say sorry? YOU didn’t do anything!”
me: “That’s NOT why i’m saying it! i’m not saying it because I did something to you, I’m just sorry you’re going through crap!”

argh.

“I’m sorry

We say ’sorry’ for everything all the time up here in Canada! Fortunately, because most of us say it we don’t get mad at one another for doing it.

It’s interesting to experience speech quirks in different places. The one that really got me when I was in southern NY/Pennsylvania was the use of ‘uh-hunh’ instead of ‘you’re welcome’.

heheh, I have a friend who does this too!

Owldaughter: yes, it’s a very Canadian thing, even in the biggest urban centers. I’m constantly apologizing to people when they bump into me!

I say sorry so often it’s not even funny. Someone could knock me over and I’d say “sorry” out of instinct, but then I’d get pretty mad. My friend on the other hand says “excuse me” so often, she says it when she bumps into walls. i say “thank you” and “please” way too much because of my parents conditioning me too. I also hold open the door for people so often that I end up late. It’s not me being polite (only for a small amount of the time), it’s the conditioning! I’m from upstate NY. Maybe I’m just different.

Justine, you should have taken photos of your desk, before and after.

OOH! i say it all the time. (from the south) and when i don’t, i can’t stop thinking that they’ll think i’m rude, even when its not my fault. And the same with thank yous. If like someone walks away before I say thank you i feel bad..
lo siento

My impression is that Australians and Brits (male as well as female) often say “sorry” where I would say “excuse me.” I don’t think it should be interpreted literally as an apology — I think it’s just an idiom. I mean, if you said “pardon me” all the time, people wouldn’t think you were literally asking to be pardoned, though they would probably think your English was weirdly formal or archaic.

not me!

The kind of sorry I’m talking about usually isn’t an apology nor is it an expression of sympathy. It really is just a verbal tic.

Kenina-Chan: I have taken an after photo just for you. Will post soon.

Ally: ¡Discúlpame!

This is a tangent, but when I was in Italy a few months ago I had an odd exchange with an Italian man who claimed that English-speakers never say “please,” whether they’re speaking in English or Italian. He was quite adamant about it, and he thought it very rude, which was funny coming from a man who eavesdropped on the conversation of some total strangers and then interrupted and harangued us about our manners and those of our compatriots. All of which goes to show that manners are not only cultural, and not only idiosyncratic, but also that it’s much easier to notice other people’s bad manners than your own.

I thought it was just us Canadians! (As I see Owldaughter and Stacy have already mentioned.)

Yay! An after photo!! Thank you! (<–I meant that one)

i used to say it way too often. i’ve cut back recently.

TOtally true. I say sorry to everything. even if it’s what somone did to me, like walk into me or something, i’ll apoligize. i don’t know why. i think it’s like a habbit…

i just…naturally say it. it drives people crazy. i say it as in “sorry, that sucks” but people think i’m apoligizing. i am trying to stop though.

my friend does that all the time!!!!!!! sometimes i start yelling at her becuase she says it too much. it kind of goes along with her personality though (she is an excedingly nice person who doesn’t even hate horribly annoying people). i live in ny, so its probably not regoinal. just her personality.

canadians — of both sexes — do this, too. i consider it quite normal to apologize when someone bumps into me on the bus … which is probably pretty weird, now i think of it …

i always thought this was the domain of Canucks. we are notorious for being polite. now you tell me it isn’t just us? another assumption blown to bits.

Kevin is always getting mad at me for saying “sorry” too much. Naturally I apologize for doing it.

So wait… saying sorry to a random person you bump into is considered weird?

dang! hehe
i also use the word ’sorry’ just like an everyday phrase. i’ve never actually thought about it before, because everyone else i know (here in australia) does the same. in fact, i find it odd when people don’t give even a brief ’sorry’ when they bump into you.

i say sorry all the time - and i’m completely unapologetic about it (pun intended). it’s considered good manners in the culture i grew up in.

my pet peeve is when someone snaps at me: “it’s not your fault!” sheesh. adults should be able to read context and tell the difference between accepting blame and the other myriad uses of the word “sorry.”

I have two stories of my over-usage of the words sorry and thank you.
Last year I went to get tutoring for Algebra 2, every time I got a problem wrong I’d say ‘Sorry!’and my tutor (who was a really cute Russian guy) all of a sudden got really really really angry! I was so shocked. He told me to stop or he’d stop tutoring me, he said he felt that he wasn’t doing a good job in tutoring me, and I said sorry yet again. Then I told him not to worry because he was doing a better job than my teacher.

And just last month I got my first detention ever! It should have been a Saturday school but because I’ve never had one he was lenient, so when he gave me the little pink slip I took it and said thank you. He was so confused. You could tell that no one had ever said thank you to him before for gettinhg a detention. But I did.
Oh, and I did used to say pardon me alot when I didn’t hear what someone had said to me. But my friends got me to stop, so now I say “Come again?”

i realized this summer how often i say sorry. i think i over-use it to seem less threatening. i was taking an online class and my little subgroup had one discussion area that we kept using. this meant i kept having to scroll through the old conversations where i was always starting out by saying sorry. i think i was trying to placate them while i pushed my agenda to control our group projects.

hehe. i dont say sorry that often. usally i say “well soooorrry!” all sarcastic-like. hehe.

-Lizzy-wa OUT!

I say sorry A Lot. I’ve also been told that it’s very annoying…and then I apologize for being annoying.

I can’t help it!

I take a lot of attitude from my girlfriend about how often I say sorry for things that aren’t my fault. I must be an Australian girl too!
-Jack

Jack: Indeed, there is a certain kind of Aussie boy who also does it. But we girls outnumber you in the sorry-ing.

It astonishes me that both M. John Harrison and Sherwood Smith could even approach this topic without mentioning Tolkien.

But anyway. As I often do, I feel compelled to cite Ursula Le Guin. Don’t have time to dig out the essay, but she describes an exchange something like this, when asked about world-building the Earthsea books,

Le Guin: “but I didn’t plan it, I found it.”

Questioner: “Where?”
Le Guin: “In my subconscious.”

Wow. very well said, very well said. i agree with her stratogy.

I get the feeling M. John Harrison is against play, really. (I know he’s against Tolkien, in that special way only actual veterans of the english class war can really pull off.)

David: And I’d agree with him about Tolkien. The upper class stink of it is sometimes overwhelming.

[…] and Philosophical Theories In Sherwood Smith’s response (hat tip to Justine Larbalestier) to M. John Harrison’s infamous “clomping foot of […]

oh, yeah. I mean, I can still enjoy reading him, but it’s with the sort of horrified fascination I get reading churchill on the war in the sudan. (except churchill was a better prose stylist.)

(and I think being an aussie automatically makes you a veteran of the english class war.)

sometimes less is more. but sometimes more is more. usually less to me means the story is more elegant; it allows a person to fit him/herself into the crevices between the words. and usually more means, well, the author probably became a fan of his or her own work. heh. nevertheless…

i’ll use j.k. rowling. what does almost every fan want of her (or claim to want from her)? more details about the harry potter universe. it’s true that she leaves a good deal up the imagination. but every kid seems to want to know more. who did so-and-so love? when did so-and-so die? how did this-and-that work? etc. for many other fandoms.

lots of fans want more. in some cases, those fans are lying to themselves. they actually don’t want more, they just think they do.

generally speaking, i think stories that inspire intense introspection are more vague (it allows the author to take an active role as character), but some people like driving about as purely for entertainment or furthering a story (i.e. fanfic). and some people, to realize something about themselves, need to read about an experience extremely close to their own experience in order to get that same intense introspection.

i’m not sure if i’ve made this entirely clear, but.. my brain’s a bit addled. hope it makes sense…

the moral is, no verbose world-building under the influence of stupidity for fear of driving a person moribund.

yeahhhhhhhh!! i likes the last one best. hehehehe. makes me laugh. titles are annoying. i call one of my wips “that damn vampire book.” because it is about vampires and it has been a source of writerly frustration for almost three years now. ha. and my nanowrimo novel will be called “the high school book.” because it is a book. about high school. yesss.

oh i hear you. hate titles. hate them so much.

I’ve always loved your working titles, you should stick with them

The contract for my upcoming DAW novel Marseguro just read “Untitled Science Fiction Novel.” I asked if I could keep that as the actual title but they told me, no, they had too many books by that name in the works already…

Just read it, already!

I like it, I’d read it for sure…but if I did–would that make me a spineless wimp?

Hehe. I like “just read it already!” I hate having to come up with titles too. It is très annoying. I think it’s because I’m too perfectionnist. I hates it when my title isn’t perfect.

I like the last one the best I think.

i like the last one the best too!! but i totally luv them all.

Oh, but titles are so important, justine. don’t you sort of figure out what you’ve written when you come up with the title? it puts it all into perspective. that’s why it’s so hard.

i hate titles too. i school we have timed writings and our teacher tells us to call them timed writing and the number or TW#_.

so much easier than having to came up with a title based on the prompt.

General Question!!: what are some of everyone’s favorite titles? could be famous, infamous, or a story you wrote, even.

I like “sixth novel” actually. names are certainly tricky tricky things. I think that’s why I see so much fic named from songs (heck, even i do that). but honestly, it’s a hard thing, because you have to find a defining moment in the book, or an overarching theme, or even the most seemingly mundane factoid to create a really great title.

I love the title “The Illustrated Man” which is Ray Bradbury’s amazing collection of short stories. the title really captures the preternatural aspect of collection’s bookended segments. “Catch-22″ (Joseph Heller) is lovable because now it’s been integrated into everyday language. I love love love “The Importance of Being Earnest” by Oscar Wilde. It’s a great title! “The Threepenny Opera” or it’s German equivalent by Brecht because it’s classic. And “the wonderful story of henry sugar: and six more” by roald dahl (who makes me sooo happy) mostly because the wonderful story of henry sugar is practically perfect in every way.

Ayn Rand’s “atlas shrugged” and “anthem” [although i haven’t read the former, the latter is breathtaking] “And then there were none” by agatha christie. and so so many by Joyce Carol Oates: “zombie”, “because it is bitter, and because it is my heart”, “the collector of hearts”. “their eyes were watching god” by zora neal hurston. and perhaps the plays “ripen our darkness” by sarah daniels and “blasted”, “crave” and “cleansed” by sarah kane.

because this is so long, i won’t jump into poetry. okay, maybe one: “admonition” by sylvia plath because it’s simple just like the poem.

lastly, of my own scribblings I like “Broken Temple, NY” for some reason, and this monologue I wrote about pigeons. It, however, has no title.

oooh, that”s a great idea! ^_^ lol. begin un-original to be original!!!

joyce carol oates’s titles annoy me because they’re so title-y. (trying too hard.) random titles i like: moon for the misbegotten. the left hand of darkness. how the garcia girls lost their accents. flash of the spirit. my best title for my own work was weavings of war.

I’m surprised you don’t like jco’s titles. i don’t really think they’re title-y. ah well, to each her own.

I am moved by the titles, though i’ve not read either, “for colored girls who have considered suicide when the rainbow is enuf” and “the unbearable lightness of being”

there’s another play with an unbelievably long name that i can’t recall, but i remember being completely flummoxed and overwhelmed by the title. alas.

You could always imitate Isaac Asimov. Every hundred books he indulged himself and just numbered the book.

Opus 100

Opus 200

Opus 300

ok. im gonna have to go with “just read it, already!” or “It’s a Book, Stupid. What did you think it was?” or maybe even “sixth book” by Justine Larbalestier. yeah won a those. nice ring doesnt it? i sure would read a book that started yelling at me. hehe.

-Lizzy-wa OUT!

rebecca, you wouldn’t by any chance be thinking of the wonderful “oh dad, poor dad, mama’s hung you in the closet and i’m feeling so sad”? it was very silly and 60’s ish.

p.s. i also just hate JCO because her books are so mercilessly depressing. i can feel my will to live slipping away as i read them. so i don’t.

Ariel, why no. That’s definitely not the play I’m thinking of. But it sounds… well, it sounds less depressing than ‘night, Mother actually was. Sigh.

okay, and to your jco remark, life is depressing. that’s just the way it is. lol.

she does a good job at depressing, but if you don’t like the sad, I’d try her horror/scary stories. They are soo so sooo good. “Collector of Hearts” is a collection. They’re terribly disturbing.

I am not good at titling anything I write. But after a while the title grows on me and suddenly it seems amazing and perfect and them someone says, “Well, what’s the book called, then?” And they laugh. Or tell me I need a new title. Sad.
I like “Sixth Book,” personally.

i’m not sure but maybe its an aussie or kiwi thing? i’ve never been able to come up with great titles though yours are good! i’m a new zealander and we do make jokes here about how we aren’t great at naming things especially places. we tend to go for the obvious name, eg. bridge 1, bridge 2. that’s probably why i liked “sixth novel”, nice and simple.

“This book needs no title” is a book about logic games (I think) y Raymond Smullyan. He also wrote “What is the name of this book?”

“Just read it already” sounds like the name of one of those cheesy self-help books from the ’90’s.

“sixth novel” sounds like a story that countains at least six novels. Maybe a murder mystery where the killer imitates the kinds of murders in six murder mysteries; maybe a Bridget-Jones-esque romance where over the course of the novel, the heroine writes six progressively happier novels and has found the right guy shortly after finishing #5. Maybe a bizarre fantasy story about something else entirely. It also reminds me of the beginning of “Kill Bill”; everytime I see that line, I think, “What were the first three?”

That's bloomin lovely!

now i have some advice for when i write stories for school.

since you’re in the midst of writing that big blog post, maybes you could answer a couple questions in it. last night i was editing, and i did the modifier thing, yay me, but what is really driving me nuts is that every bloody sentence i write starts with “she” or “he” or the character’s name. i’m trying to switch things around, change up the sentence structure, whatever, but it seems like it takes five centuries just to write a paragraph. is this one of those things i just have to keep doing and doing over and over again? or is there a trick to it.

also, second question, are there some tricks you know to writing description? i suck at it. i remember i read something here (i think it was here) about nondescript doors and colors and how that kind of description sucks. i know this in theory, but putting it into practice is proving difficult.

Oh, add “suddenly”! I feel the need for everything in my stories to happen “suddenly.” As in, every new paragraph, if I am not paying attention XD It’s horrible.

and “then.” then she did this, and then, when she was finished, she did that. then, suddenly! he walked into the room. and then he smiled, and then then then then the writer’s head exploded.

Oh my goodness. Justine, you typed out the word “unicorns” without any aterisks and LIVED!
I’m impressed.

Justine, thanks so much for reccing Worth the Trip. I know it doesn’t have much to do with this post, but it’s nice to see blogs for glbtq ya. I guess I’m not young enough to qualify as the target audience for ya anymore (22!) but it’s still my favorite… ‘genre.’ it just seems like there’s going on in the ya world… either way, i know when i was younger a site like that would have been amazing, and i relish finding stuff like that now. yay! However, one of the posts makes me want to write my own lesbian ya. there’s an audience for it, i just know it!

thanks again!

Aw, you took my “suddenly,” elodie. I’ve also heard one should try to limit the number of “that”s as well.

And now I picture hordes of zombies (you need to have a horde, it’s no fun if you don’t) chasing a couple of unicorns. That example made me laugh.

*sees double*

“And now I picture hordes of zombies (you need to have a horde, it’s no fun if you don’t) chasing a couple of unicorns.”

Hee! Someone needs to draw that. Where is Katerate?

‘Tain’t nuthin’ like a good beta.

I file off the burrs and I fill in the potholes,
I beef up the verbs and make note of the plotholes.
I tighten the phrasing and cut to the bone
Killing “that”, “then” and “suddenly”, paired or alone.

I’ll shorten the sentences, clear up the scene,
Canonize dialogue, oil the machine.
Activate verbs and cull adjectives back,
Annihilate adverbs and tighten the slack.

Make all the characters speak in my head
If their words are not right then rewrite what they’ve said.
The cadence important and phrase plays a part
Or canon is ruffled and readers depart.

I beta-read fanfic, I beta-read filk
I beta-read much of the worst of that ilk
I fix up your stories, I clean out the murk
So readers will want to read more of your work

It’s your name as author, it’s your name on show
My name isn’t something your readers will know
But we both are aware that your textual grails
My fingerprints sport on their finer details.

So think of your editors, once in a while
When fans of your stories queue up for a mile
To Betas: a toast. Ladies, gents, raise your glass
To friends who make sure you don’t fall on your ass.

I call Matt “Matt.” But I call my daughter “Sweetie,” “Boodle,” “Sweetie-doodle,” “Honey,” “Doodle-girl,” “Alice-doodle,” etc. It’s disgusting. (I also call her by her name.)

What do you call your main squeeze?

Lord Cthulhu, and absolutely nothing else if I know what’s good for me.

My husband knows he’s in trouble if I call him by his name. He’s “darlin” on most days.

The 4 kids were all “honey” when they were young, but now that they’re older they’re all “dude”. I am terrible at calling them by their actual name - I almost always get the wrong name. They do get called “honey” if they’re hurt though.

Really though, a million names get thrown around here - “senorita smoothie buns”, “math dude”, “scout boy”, “adventure girl”, whatever fits the moment.

Yes, baby nicknames are a dime a dozen. I stopped calling Alice “Booper” or “Booper-girl” when I realized that people heard it as “Pooper.” Originally it derived from “Super duper flooper nuper cooper booper girl.”

I’m not sure why I’ve never used any endearments for my husband. One of my old boyfriends was “[name-redacted]-monster,” which was a term of exasperation as well as endearment.

I think that I possibly only went as far as “hon” with my last boyfriend. But since he and I are still really great friends now, and he’s married…I don’t call him “hon” anymore. It’s definitely at the point where I call him by his name. lol.

I’m not really into nicknames myself. My name is short and simple and I rather like it.

I’ve actually been told that my full name sounds elvish, and that it’s too impossibly pretty to be real. That makes me feel nice. At least my parents were good with the name-picking-thing.

I call my husband, “Yo”, which I swear actually sounds sweeter than it looks. Using his name seems too formal. I might as well be calling him Father, as in, “Father, will you please fetch Daughter’s pacifier? She seems to be throwing a hissy fit.”

“Hey, you.”

I call my husband “sweetie” and he calls me “babe.” The cats have nicknames, too: They’re The Buffalo (from “toughy little buffalo,” yay Toys Go Out) and The Cow (because she’s white with big gray spots and when we took her to the vet, the vet said, “This one has the cutest markings, like a little cow!”).

Why yes, my cats ARE going to have identity crises when they grow up.

“main squeeze.” hehehehehe.

the word “dude” comes out of my mouth obscenely often, but people have told me that’s a texas thing. i thing “people” are wrong, b/c everyone says “dude.” dude.

i dislike being called “honey” as it has a condescending connotation. only my grandmother is allowed to call me “sweetie.” and if anyone ever tries to call me “sugar,” they had better run fast.

i do have a tendency to call my pets crazy things, but they are almost always related to the pet’s name. my cat, luna, for example, is lovely luna (alliteration), luny (an accurate description of her), luny bin, bin, dustbin, and loon. i did frequently call another of my cats “precious,” but she was one-of-a-kind.

so yeah, just pets with me. i suspect that if my main squeeze ever shows up, he’ll just be his name.

baby. doll. dude. man. honey bunch. love. and quite often by his actual name!

“my love” although if we’re being silly, “oh, darling” but I still use her name from time to time. Now, what was her name?

errr i call evryone by there name and if its and adult it ms. or mr. i hae no main sqeeze

my husband and i almost never call each other by our names. when we do, it feels strange, like we’re slightly mad at each other.

I’ve always disliked pet names because they made me feel like a, well, pet. Or a child. And I have a deep and abiding suspicion that people in relationships who use a pet name do it as insurance in case of saying the wrong name during certain ‘intimate moments’.

If a stranger called me ‘darling’, or even ‘ma’am’ I’d just assume they were trying to sweet-talk something from me. And I really resent it when shop assistants find out your name and start inserting it in their sales pitch. It’s supposed to be more personal, but instead I feel like I’m a comma.

i usually don’t address anyone by their actual names; to be honest, i usually don’t address anyone by any name at all, and definitely not with hypocorisms. it’s usually “hey” or “you” or “man” or “dude”, regardless of their gender or their relationship to me. i guess you could say i have the “american allergy”, so to speak, to an even greater degree than most.

I call my husband “sweetheart” or “darling,” nothing too extreme. I use his name when I’m serious. I have a million nicknames for my daughter Eve and they keep changing. I used to call her Pumpkin Pie and Honeybear but now that she is so grown up (started 2nd grade today!) those embarrass her. The ones I am still allowed to use are Eve-ala (Jewish diminutive), Boo and Miss E.

I can Janet “sweetie” or “honey” or, if I’m trying to get her attention, “oi!” I hardly ever call her by her name, and it always sounds strange when I do.

I don’t call her “dude,” but I use that moniker for my sister.

jeff is either “jeff” or “baby” (which is kind of funny now that we have an actual baby in the house). he calls me “kitty” (which has nothing to do with my name - stacy - but has origins i’d rather not discuss).

xander (our little boy) is “xander-man”, “xander dander doo” (daddy’s nickname for him), “mister”, “mister-mister”, but most often “little mister”.

as for the cats, they are hardly ever called by their names (arwen, éowyn, and sarah-bellum). the closest is sarah, who is often called “sarah monster” (because she is).

I call my husband Joe, but I also call him sugarlah, Joselah, Josephus, blondie-bear and anything else that happens to occur to me at the moment.

I tend to call my boyfriend by his name, but he always calls me “bunn.” In fact, he has a ton of nicknames for me and I love them all — it actually makes me feel sad and pathetic that I haven’t given him any good nick names…

After I posted, I realized that the strangest nicknames I have are for my friends: Audrey is Audreena, Lesley is Leslita, Lisa Lipkin is Lipkinella and so forth. I love their nicknames and feel a burst of affection everytime I use them. I also call my sister “der schwester” which is Yiddish for “the sister”

Like several other commenters, my husband and I hardly ever call each other by our first names as it feels sort of like we might be slightly upset with the other. Unless there are other people in the room and we need to be clear who we’re speaking to - then first names feel fine.

We both call each other Dude. I call him husband and he calls me wifeband. I also call him Hub, Lovahman, My Man, Man-o-mine, and My Love. There are probably others I’m not thinking of at the moment. We’re big nickname people.

Justine, I’m surprised by your response to the actors bit. By far, the most common response I got to, “I sold a book!” aside from “congratulations” was “can I have a part in the movie?”

Diana: No one has ever said that to me.

Plus, how on Earth would they think selling book = movie. Weird.

I want your autograph! I always want writers’ autographs. Seriously, getting an author’s autograph is so much better than getting say, Lindsay Lohan or Britney Spears’ autograph. I don’t want their signatures names on anything I own.

I think it’s weird, too, but EVERYONE says it. I think you hang out with more people in the book biz than I do. The other big thing they ask is when the movie is coming out.

Or they tell me I should get into screenwriting, since that’s where the “real money” is.

Me: “Hi I’m an author.”
Well Meaning But Clueless Person #1: “When is your book going to get made into a movie?”
WMBCP #2: “Can I have a part in the movie?”
WMBCP #3: “Can you get me a ticket to the premiere?”
WMBCP #4: “You should get into screenwriting. That’s where the real money is.”
WMBCP #5: “How can you be an author? You don’t live in New York.”

Will you marry me?

i’ve never asked before because 1)you’re already married, 2)I don’t actually “like” girls, 3)we’ve only met once and 4)it seemed a little creepy on several levels. But, if it makes you feel better, I’m asking.

Ever have someone propose to you based on a meal you’ve cooked? I have a strict policy to refuse all proposals that are based on my cooking ability.

I know a bunch of librarians here in Austin that would really love to take you to lunch. Have your people call my people.

Here’s to Champagne Thursdays! You know, you might want to try writing that 1st page of the next book while you’re still giddy on champagne. I write my Christmas cards after having a bottle (or two) of wine and they are always interesting. You may not have a page of usable material, but it just might be something to laugh about later.

Dawn: Thank you! Though I kind of have a soft spot for Lindsay Lohan on account of I think she’s a not bad actor. I really liked her in Mean Girls.

Diana: I guess I lead an insular life surrounded by other writers and publishing people. And thus mostly don’t get those questions. Though I have had the when-is-the-movie-coming-out quessie. Maybe I need to get out more.

But I bet your answer to the Maugham thing is still no because he says “actors wanting parts”. Are any of the folks asking for parts actual working actors?

Nichole: Ha ha! Your marriage proposal is so empty.

No one has ever proposed to me because of my cooking. And I’m not a bad cook at all! Wow, now I’m even more despondent.

Or would be if it wasn’t for the thought of getting to lunch with all the coolest librarians in Austin! Woo hoo!

Do we have to restrict champers to just Thursdays?

I have indeed tried writing while under the influence. Sadly, even if I’ve only had half a glass, my writing turns to mush. I am no F. Scott Fitzgerald or Raymond Chandler.

I keep waiting to get to the bit where my publisher puts me up in a five-star hotel in Shanghai’s swanky foreign occupation district for me to finish my book.

David: I believe that one requires a time machine. I imagine you’ll find “persons of quality” when you get there and everythink. Say hi from me.

you have two agents? is that normal? or maybe one of them is foreign rights or something. didn’t know one could have two agents. gah!

p.s. i like lindsey lohan’s acting too. but not her. mean girls and freaky friday rocked.

p.p.s. blogging + margaritas = hehehehehehehe.

Well, since you brought up autographs… we met at the Penguin YA authors dinner at TLA in April when the signed copies of your books were MIA. I realized the other day that I never did get a copy! Is it too late? (If it is, no problem, but thought I’d ask.)

Rebecca: Scott has three agents cause he has a Hollywood agent too. Whitney takes care of the foreign rights for the Magic or Madness trilogy. Jill takes care of all my books after Magic or Madness and all their rights.

Laura: I have passed your request onto the Penguin authorities. Let me know if you don’t hear anything but I’m pretty sure they’ll take care of it. They’re usually very good that way.

Thank you!

I guess that’s a “no” to the marriage then? Sigh. Scott is so lucky.

Of course we don’t have to restrict champers to just thursdays. we can drink anytime, but it’s a requirement on thursdays.

The key to getting proposals based on your cooking skills is to surround yourself with people who can’t cook at all. But then, you kind of get stuck with all of the cooking, so it’s not the best plan ever. the bad part about people wanting to marry you because you can cook well is that they will actually expect you to cook later.

I have to say, Austin is blessed with some pretty awesome librarians! They’re even nice enough to let me pretend to be a librarian, too. I obtained official “honorary librarian” status at ALA this year.

I can barely write well sober, but somehow the terribly written drunken christmas cards are usually a hit.

Rebecca: Thanks for the margaritas idea!

i bet you know more working actors than I do, too. you’re not insulated.

whitney lee, also my foreign rights agent; very lovely.

I think what Maugham meant by being “at the mercy of their own conscience” was about writers being harsh to themselves. Or just doing their own head in. Revisions, anyone?

Does blogging count as writing about all sorts of stuff from your life? I think it does, at least at some level. Even if you don’t do a whole novel about a situation, writing about it clears your mind and makes even you understand everything better. For me, at least. When I was around ten years old, and I’d be mad at my parents, I’d write lonnng letters to them, knowing even as I wrote them that I wouldn’t give the letters to them. But we’ve all done that, haven’t we?

Your assertion that Maugham thinks all writers are male shows a bit of ignorance of the language. At the time of his writing, “he” was the correct pronoun for someone unknown. So, since wives and those seeking maternal advice are known to be female, they get the “she.” Actually, it still is this way, though out of fairness, we say “he or she.” Personally, I’m sickened by the use of “they” as a pronoun for an individual.

Oh, and speaking of individuals…
IMO, any writer still following the old, disgusting “publisher ‘n’ agent” model is as chained-up on the plantation as one can get. The only free artist is the 100% independent artist.

Nichole: Sorry!

Gabrielle: Blogging totally counts!

Rushton: Ignorant, eh? Using “they” as the general singular pronoun has been around a lot longer than “he”. “They” was still being used by plenty of people in the 1930s. It was good enough for Jane Austen and William Shakespeare and it’s good enough for me.

Also I was making an ironic point which sailed past you. I’d give you a feminism 101 link, but I can’t be arsed.

any writer still following the old, disgusting “publisher ‘n’ agent” model is as chained-up on the plantation as one can get. The only free artist is the 100% independent artist.

Good luck with that.

Miss all irony to establish self as self-important blowhard. Check.

At the time of his writing, “he” was the correct pronoun for someone unknown.

Make obvious point that any ten-year-old would know in learned tone to a blogger with a PhD in English and Semiotics. Check.

Personally, I’m sickened by the use of “they” as a pronoun for an individual.

Decry common usage of “the little people” while establishing own ignorance of history of English language. Check and check.

IMO, any writer still following the old, disgusting “publisher ‘n’ agent” model is as chained-up on the plantation as one can get. The only free artist is the 100% independent artist.

Explain how being un-agented and unpublished makes you The Superior Artist. Check. (But it was a nice touch, leaving the H out of IMHO.)

Your work here is done.

I guess I’ll learn to live with the disappointment. I still love you. Can we just be good friends, then?

Scott: You are my hero. In so many ways.

You guys rock.

I want a loan. And I’m stranger than many people, albeit less strange than many others.

I would love to write a book for teens that used the kind of language that I hear them use every day.

As long as they don’t say “lol” out loud. Or for that matter, any text/internet abbreviations. I reserve the right to be the cranky old bat, what with my stalwart defense of “whom,” so I think that allowing your teen characters to say “like” five times per sentence is really quite a stretch for me.

I find Crutcher can be a devastating rhetorician when he wants to be (I’ve read him in interview, but not heard him speak); and anyway, he has a leg up on most of his detractors by being able to refer in monstrous detail to the stuff he has seen in his adolescent psychology practice. When the “ten commandments in a public school” kerfuffle was going on, about 8 years ago, he did not mince words (though I never did see him use unprintable ones).

C’mon Veejane! I meant in a writerly way. No writer uses direct transcripts of actual speech as dialogue. It’d be unreadable. We all repeat words endlessly. We um and ah. And we drop so many words that if you don’t know what’s been talked about it’s unintelligible. None of which works well on the written page. Writers are always doing an approximation of speech never direct reportage of the real thing.

When Scott had one of his characters use “dude” a lot in Peeps some readers were annoyed. But that character didn’t use “dude” that much at all compared to most “dude” users. He was more gesturing at the “dude” thing not accurately representing it.

Have you read Lauren Myracle? She does an excellent version of instant messageing speak etc in her TTFN books. They’re funny as hell and read just great.

I just wanted to start off by saying that I did leave a comment on your last post, but then my internet went screwy and never posted it. It was excessively long and therefore I didn’t feel like typing it all up again. I’m sorry about that.

Personally, I rather like the “f-bomb” and I know I really shouldn’t. I do my best to keep my language clean, but NOTHING feels as good as a string of “f-bomb”s when you’re really pissed off. Cursing, cussing, swearing…whatever you want to call it, it’s a part of everyday life whether people like it or not. I don’t think anything is going to change that, and part of me hopes it never will.

I would also be very disappointed if authors weren’t allowed to curse in the books that they write. I try not to swear, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have characters that are like Ozzy Osbourne and give us colorful language at least three times in one sentence. My characters are not me, and I am not them. Not allowing them to speak that way sometimes really ruins a character and the way that you meant them to be seen when you wrote them.

Something I was told recently was: “You can choose to be offended or to not be offended.”

I realize that sometimes what people do, say, write…whatever, will hurt my feelings. It could make me angry or sad, but in the end I choose how I want to respond to what happened to me. You can choose to learn from it, or you can choose to get pissed off about it and make a big unnecessary ruckus about it. Personally, I would like to think that I would pick the former.

And Holly Black is amazing, as well as her “f-bomb” usage. Ironside is WONDERFUL.

Lest I be cast forever as the kind of old lady who wears her stockings rolled at the knee, I should confess that I am totally guilty of all-dude all-the-time.

Have you seen that one scene in the first season of The Wire, in which an entire scene consists solely of conjugations and variations on the f-bomb? It’s hilarious. And the best part is, because it’s acting, you can tell exactly what they mean with each effword they mumble.

Dawn: Indeed! Some of the most hurtful things I’ve said or have been said to me did not involve any “offensive” language at all.

Veejane: I do not think that of you at all. Especially as you’re younger than I am!

That scene from The Wire is one of the most genius scenes of television (or film for that matter) that I have ever seen. I loved it! I love The Wire!

Justine, I am very very aware of your love of the “f-bomb” (and every other “cuss word!”) Hee hee.

I love writing curse words too. Oh, I had so much fun with Tyrell’s voice, how he punctuated his words with the “s-word” and the “f-bomb.” But the thing is, I hardly ever curse. It doesn’t roll off my tongue as easily as it does yours. I’m not offended by it at cursing; I kinda enjoy hearing others curse. It’s funny and flavorful. So I choose to live vicariously through my characters… and through my friends who enjoy using very, uh, colorful language!

i will never understand why we have ‘cuss words.’ how did that even start? i’m not offended my people cussing. i think it makes things more interesting. i don’t really cuss though because my parents would kill me. i agree with coe booth. it adds flavor and humor.

Coe Booth: The swearing in Tyrell was awesome! Pure poetry.

It’s kind of ironic that you don’t swear but write characters that do and I do but mostly my characters don’t. (So far.)

Nice to hear that your gutter-mouthed friends are keeping you entertained!

Katie: That’s an interesting question. I assume we’ve been swearing for as long as we’ve been stubbing our toes . . . but I don’t really know.

I forgot to mention how funny swearing can be. Thanks for reminding me.

Sometimes “offense” is self-inflicted. And it requires a certain amount of self-centeredness. As a bookseller, I get a lot of secondary “That was so offensive!” nonsense. I try to find the most polite way to say: “The author wasn’t trying to offend you; Dude, the author doesn’t know you exist.”

Chris S: Yup. Sometimes I reckon there are certain people who just troll around looking to be offended. Drives me mad!

But I was thinking of good faith offendedness. There really are people who just don’t deal with swearing and particularly don’t deal with blasphemy. Whereas for other folks the blasphemous side of some swear words doesn’t even register.

If I know someone’s going to be hurt by certain words I try not to talk that way in their presence. It’s just polite.

Of course, my friends know I’m deeply offended by unicorns, but do they shut up about them? Nope. They do not.

when i was little, i was afraid to even think cuss words. when i was in 7th grade, every other word out of my mouth was a cuss word. now i’m somewhere in between, leaning towards the 7th grade level. i like cussing. i use it a lot, except around my mom, to whom “crap” and “pee” are bad words. i used to think my dad was that way too, but i have now learned that he was only restraining himself around my mother. it is also because of this that i developed an excellent self-filtering ability. i can be as “clean” as, um, a veggie tales episode (hahahahahaha). but i don’t like to, b/c that’s not how i really talk. i also like finding new ways to swear. i borrow it from other cultures and languages and make it up myself. lately, i’ve been using the word “shiz” a lot. hee. it annoys me when these words are censored. i know there are situations in which it might be better to avoid cussing. but sometimes it’s just ridiculous. (like WHY do they have to bleep out Stephen Colbert? grrrr.) i think it’s good to not overuse them too, b/c if cussing is all you ever hear, it loses its amusement and significance.

There would be no swear words in it. Everyone would speak uncolloquially and without grammatical errors. Characters would only fall in love with people of the opposite sex and same race and religion, yet they would not have sex. They would not smoke or lie or cheat.

I would be deeply offended by this book.

I love to swear. Although I try not to do it at work, because there are lots of old people.

fuck.

in everyday conversations i tend to swear like a trooper and am unfazed when i hear others swear, yet, when reading fiction i find swear words, especially the f word and the c word, quite shocking. I’m not offended by them, but they jolt me. Perhaps that has to do with not seeing the words as often as they are spoken in real life?

But it also depends on the type of book it is. Some novels really need swearing otherwise they just lack credibility. Where as with others it just seems tacky.

[…] Larbalsetier ponders the f-bomb in YA books. It reminded me of how Sarah Ellis’s The Baby Project has been challenged because […]

You should totally post this on the AS IF! blog. It’s great.

I have always loved to curse but I love it even more now that I have a child and don’t curse in front of her. (She’s only 7.) It’s the ultimate adult pleasure to be sitting with my friends, drinking wine and cursing. Probably for the same reasons that bikini beaches are sexier than nude ones. Fig leaves, taboos–they provide definition in a sadly amorphous modern world.

I’m going to think up unicorn swear words just for you, Justine. Can I say that you have Cornuphobia?

I remember the first time I heard you swear like a sailor, I swooned. I fell deeply in love with you on that day. The saltiness made me feel comfortable, as if I, too, could say whatever I needed to say, be whoever I needed to be, without apology. I also have a mouth that could make Tony Soprano blush. I’m sure it has to do with my being a minister’s daughter.;-) But I try to curb it around people who would be offended by such words because, as you said, it’s just polite to do so.

This is such an interesting topic. I find myself debating this a lot. I can ride the F train and hear teens letting loose with a stream of consciousness rant filled with variations on the F-word. This is how they talk. Should I not use these words even though they are accurate? In my work, I fear more the offense of not being true than the offense of using words that make some people uncomfortable.

I was taken to task recently on my blog for using the f-word there. It was a blog about rage and how women are often denied their right to express it fully and Britney Spears. (No, it all makes sense, I swear.) Anyway, I talked about how, in a fit of total despair/frustration/rage, I just yelled that word at the top of my lungs, and then I felt better and was able to get on with it, and that sometimes we just need to do that. Someone posted that my language was inappropriate on a site directed toward young readers. And I thought three things:
1. You totally missed the point of this blog, bitch.
2. You obviously have never ridden the F-train at 3:00 when school lets out.
3. You might be 100% right.

Me? I love words. All of ‘em. I want to roll around in words. And sometimes, what you or your characters need to say has to be expressed in language that some people may find offensive. I sort of love Quentin Tarantino movies because the language is so foul (and accurate) that after a while, it achieves a level of absurdist poetry. It also makes me laugh like crazy and open up to his world.

Anyway, I don’t know that I can be redeemed in terms of my swearing. Will you still sit next to me and be my friend? And what do you have against the smell of coffee? It’s divooon.

I am a writer, therefore I offend. It pretty much goes with the territory. In fact, you can expand it. I am a human, therefore I offend.

How many times is offense taken when none need be, for none is intended? I think that so many people are offended at things when there is truly no need, and it thus lessens the impact of things that truly are offensive.

Just a thought.

So many excellent comments! Ta. I am rolling them around in my mouth and savouring. Yum!

claire: i was wondering who’d be first. Guess it’s fitting that it’s you.

Ariel Cooke: Quite a few of my swearing friends do not swear in front of their childen. Why is that? To create the delicious adult space with your friends?

I ask because I’ve also seen the opposite parental tactic which is to teach them what the bad words are and how where it’s okay to use them. Mostly only at home. And how it’s especially important not to use them in front of teachers.

I’m wondering which is the harder/easier/more effective approach.

I am not a parent so I have no idea what I would do.

Libba: Tee hee! Now I know why it’s called the F-train!

I will always sit next to you and be your friend.

What do I have against the smell of coffee? You mean other than the fact that it makes me want to projectile vomit?

I’m quite partial to the “f-bomb” myself and think that, sometimes, it is just THE perfect word.

And occasionally, used all alone and in just the right situation, it can be completely absurd and hysterically funny.

Here’s a mystery: Why do we swear “religiously” even when we’re not religious (Hell, damn, etc.)?

And why do Americans use the F-word as a curse, anyway? (You never an American say “Intercourse you, making-love-er!”
:-S

this kinda reminds me of this song, your beautiful, by james blunt. it’s a sappy, sappy , stupid song, and the highlight of it is when, out of the blue, he drops the f-bomb. he’s not trying to be funny, but it’s absolutely hilarious. it’s the only reason i bought the song.

I make up “swear” words almost the first thing in writing a language. Therefore I can curse in front of teachers… although I bet some of them wonder why I hiss “shar’denat!” every time I fall down (and that is often, but they still can’t pronounce it)