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My first novel, which I'm presently working on revising before I start querying agents, is relatively plotless in the grand scheme of things. The characters and their development over the course of the story are the center of the story itself.

A lot of the Murakami books I've really enjoyed have been like this, with little real focus on a plot - and what there is often ends up being rather meandering - and more on the characters and their mental state.

So much of J.D. Salinger's work amounts to people sitting around and talking, too. Both these authors are pretty big influences on my writing.

I'm glad I found this site. I recently got back to writing and the big thing that is different for me this time around is in the area of Plot. Before, I focused on the plot. I overly plotted and could never seem to finish a book.
Now, I am focusing on the characters and letting their actions, reaction and feelings carry the story. I still get plot anxiety...thinking I need to develop the plot better, but this time around I'm going to go w/o a lot of emphasis on the plot...here's hoping. :)

Thanks for commenting, Benjamin Fennell. Characters and their development center of the story itself = yes! Ends up being rather meandering = worrying... Sitting around and talking = hmmmmm Makes me remember why I got into teaching plot.

Though literary novels feel plotless, they in fact have lots of structure. As long as you as the author isn't meandering or sitting and talking, I won't worry...

Hi Ash,
Balance in all things. Or at least the attempt at balance.

For me there's always been a very small difference between "when the language takes center stage" and "Hey Mom! Look at how good I'm writing!" It leaves me thinking about what kind of job the writer is doing and not what the characters are doing.

Great point, msmith13. It's more than the language itself. It's the attention to authentic details. The slowing down the scene so that the reader can slip in and stay awhile. There is a leisurely feel in literary fiction. The page-turnability not from the dramatic action per se, but the attention to character development.

Hello,
I typically develop characters first, because if I am going to write about a person, the more three dimensional you make them, the more of a life you can envision for them. As I add other people to the character's world, conflict develops from the relationships with each new character and a plot forms. That is how I usually work. But, I retain the right to work with a plot first, generally in the form of a "what if?" question; and then I sketch a character to live out that scenario. -Mike.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I don't know if I would say theme IS plot, but I'd definitely say you need plot to show the theme.

And then, all those tiny, detailed actions your character takes that are part of the big dramatic action...are they plot or character? or both? Oh, boy!

What do you think when you think of plot?
Does the word plot make your eyes narrow and your pulse race?

Writers who are right-brained, intuitive, highly creative and highly disorganized, write-by-the-seat-of-your-pants find plot counter-intuitive, forced, structured, and to be avoided.

Left-brained, analytical, organized, sees-the-parts-of-the-whole, structured writers thrive on plot.

What do you think when you think of plot?

When I think of Plot, I think of Premise because "thought always precedes action". To be more specific, I am talking about "Moral Premise" which encompasses theme.

Theme is a universal truth (a mission statement) to all. Premise delineates the conflict between values and vices and their specific outcomes. But a premise should be universally truth within the context of your story.

Characters are a bunch of values reacting to conflict (in an active way).

So when I'm thinking of story creation, I ask myself what is motivating me to write a specific story? What are my motivations and how do my beliefs translate into story form?

I think about what kinds of conflict I want to write about and what the overall "message" I want to convey. These story starters usually derive from personal experience and views.

Then I think about the vices (flaws) and virtues / values that a protagonist has to have in a story of that kind of conflict in order for that protagonsit to be the most affected from (in terms of a character arc/changes).

The premise helps to keep me focus on writing scenes that will prove my premise.

"The premise is a restatement of the most important change that the main character or characters goes through, or the lesson he has to learn".

I'm not sure if this makes me character or plot orientated because I don't really think of plot and character as 2 separate things.

I do want to believe that if one is writing meaningful stories, that come from within, then the moral equation of values and flaws have to come into place during the initial phase.

I have begun letting my characters show me the plot with the *what is the worst thing that can happen* theory in mind. This shows character growth because they have to change to solve the problem.

Hugs, JJ

I like your definition. And I'd probably toss in conflict as well. :)

Hey Martha.

I'm not sure what kind of brain I have, but "cause and effect" is a concept that always messed me up as a kid. Even now the phrase seems too clinical compared to the intimate act of writing.

You know me, which means I'm always looking from a character's point of view. The simplest way for me to think of plot is the collection of actions a character takes to get around the obstacles he meets. Every obstacle gets bigger and bigger, which means the character gets more and more desperate until the character has nowhere else to run, and that's the climax.

Simple-minded, maybe, but it works for me.

Thanks to each of you for your comments -- thoughtful and insightful into your process. Fascinating to learn how other writers approach plot.

For me, it is a dance of the plot lines. I find myself writing pure dramatic action, no character stuff. Once I know what is happening, I sink into the character and build another layer. Then, I sit back and ponder what it all means, and layer that in when appropriate.

A dance, sometimes awkward and clumsy. Often graceful and surprising. Always pulling me back to the dance floor........

May your dancing partners keep you in a state of awe and wonder.

Writers who are right-brained, intuitive, highly creative and highly disorganized, write-by-the-seat-of-your-pants find plot counter-intuitive, forced, structured, and to be avoided.

Martha,

The "right-brained" versus "left-brained" dichotomy is not supported by science-- brains are complex and mysterious things. Unless one has had some extreme brain damage or radical surgery, such a thing doesn't exist.

Also: the stereotype of "highly creative" being associated with rejection of structure and organization is a very recent one-- it may very well describe someone you know or someone with whom you particularly identify or emulate, but it is not a fair description of creativity. There are many different ways of being "highly creative."

Not thinking about characters results in flat characterization and cyphers. Not thinking about plot results in narrative clichés or, worse, "writing oneself into a corner."

An artist should aim at being "whole brained" which, of course, we already are.

In the work I do as a plot consultant, I find that most writers are pretty balanced between character and action. Yet, enough writers reside more firmly rooted in one or the other that I came up with the
two distinctions I wrote about in my post.

For anyone who is classically right-brained and is interested in hearing from another in their "tribe" about her struggles with plot, please visit: http://www.blockbusterplots.com/tips.html#interview8

Hey, don't yell, but I've tagged you for a meme. 'Cause, you know, I've KNOWN you for ten years now! :)

http://beckylevine.livejournal.com/41727.html

This just happens to be a peeve of mine developed from that one neuropsychology course I took:

Yes, there are such things as writers who think in terms of plot at the expense of characters and writers who think in terms of characters at the expense of plot (as well as over-emphasis or obliviousness to other elements of good writing, such as style or knowledge of subject matter) there is no validity to classifying these people "right-brained" or "left-brained."

I agree, ian thal, with so much of what you write:

"Brains are complex and mysterious things."

"Not thinking about characters results in flat characterization and cyphers. Not thinking about plot results in narrative clichés or, worse, "writing oneself into a corner.

An artist should aim at being "whole brained" which, of course, we already are."

This is excellent. Very well put. I couldn't agree more.

I use the right-brained, left-brain model to provoke writers to explore their writing process beyond what comes "naturally" to them. I use the model as a way to talk about the importance of integrating both character and action in their projects.

However, I plan to add a disclaimer on my website that includes your comments.

Thank you.......