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clindsay said:

rejected a manuscript that I had been seriously considering last week because upon a cursory online search, I found a LiveJournal post by the author badmouthing me and several of my colleagues for what she thought were excessive response times. Well, that blog post cost her representation from at least one agent. (OH, and it was a LOCKED LibeJournal post. You do know that Google Reader doesn't respect locked posts, right? Well, you do now.)"

I apologize in advance for what I'm about to say, and I will try to be at least minimally civil. That being said, I find this attitude astonishing. It isn't even high school. It's grade school. It represents business decision making being subordinated to personal pique. And yes, you have the right to do this. No law requires anybody to be a good person or even to have common sense. But maybe it would be a good idea nonetheless.

-Steve

Good point about Colleen Lindsay, Steve. I think this is a very important aspect of the agent-writer relationship. Lindsay's clients do not work for her, she works for them, yet she would have them approach her as though applying for a job. If she could write, she would be a writer. She isn't.

And to make a business decision based on hacking a livejournal account, when considering representing what is ostensibly a well-written work, is downright stupid. I would never trust such an agent to make a rational business decision in my best interest. I would rather maintain a relationship with someone who can sell my books.

Rachelle, you joked in one of your responses about having people "pay $500 to submit or have a Masters in Literature" to cut down on submissions - I bet if you charged just $1, and I mean that literally - just $1, you would block out over 50% of your queries - especially the bad ones (assuming you could get all other agents to do the same).

As a writer I receive tons of requests to view manuscripts, endorse manuscripts, talk to a good friend who wants to be a writer, etc. I can't do that and make deadlines, so I try to really respond to those who I believe in, or to send them to other great sources like The Writers View where they can connect with other writers in the industry. I think an honest discussion of this is good, Rachelle. It clears up the confusion so that people do understand the pressure an agent faces, as well as what to do if their queries are hitting a brick wall. Great post!

David said:

"Lindsay's clients do not work for her, she works for them, yet she would have them approach her as though applying for a job."

I think this is only partially true. For one, the agent/writer relationship seems more like a partnership to me. Without one or the other, neither person can go very far. Maybe this is a naive view, and I'll accept that if you think so. However, it seems perfectly reasonable to me for both parties to do their research. Not only is it reasonable, but anyone looking for a job, where they would be working FOR someone, should investigate the company to which they apply. If they get called in for an interview, I would hope they would have questions to ask. In my opinion, it's a similar situation.

In reference to your statement about not responding to rejections being rude. I agree, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen in other sectors. I just moved and have applied for several jobs. I haven't heard back from any of them other than that they received my application. Is that rude? Yes, and I constantly wonder why they didn't respond. But, it's a fact of life.

I have to agree with Steve. It's not that hard to send a form rejection - it literally takes five seconds to spare a writer agonizing weeks or months of waiting. No, the agent owes nothing to non-clients, but a little humanity goes a long way. Just think, Rachelle, of all the form rejections you could have sent out in the time it took you to post and read through this blog...

Rachelle--thanks for your reply in the comments :) I think I wasn't quite clear--my comment was meant to say exactly that, that a business's mindset of which emails to reply to are different from an agent's. I think it's tough for people in the business world to recognize that sometimes, and apply their understanding of hard work onto an agent, which in this case is clearly misguided. Mix that with the sting of rejection (rejection always stings...not the agent's fault) and you get frustrated rants.

Maybe the solution is to let those who want to rant, rant...perhaps the writers who are the most serious about making a career out of writing will be the ones that make an effort to understand the business side of publishing and accept this one frustrating aspect of the system. (Err, it's a hope, anyway.)

I always thought writers need to cultivate patience...this goes to show that, but it also shows the patience agents need to have for the constant attacks on their work. Thanks again!

So Colleen Lindsay (and I'm sure she's not alone in this) turns down potential clients because she doesn't think she'll get along with them. Big deal. Don't you *want* an agent who not only connects with your work but connects with you? I'm not saying you and your agent need to be best friends; in fact, it's probably better if you're not. But agents are your advocates when contacting editors and trying to get the best deal possible for your book(s). I want an agent who will go to bat for me with no hesitations. And with so many great writers out there looking for agents, and with publishers only looking for a limited number of books each year, agents have to say no for one reason or another to most of the people who query them. May as well be for personal reasons. I'm not saying the author who posted on LiveJournal is to blame either. I'm saying that an honest working relationship is the way to go. The author didn't respect CL and other non- or late-replying agents. So why would he/she want to work with her anyway?

In an ideal world, yes, all agents would respond to every query/partial/full. But they don't, and it's frustrating. What brings my blood pressure back down to reasonable level, however, is realizing that I write because I love writing--not because I love querying. So when I'm not getting the responses I want--or responses at all--I go back to writing. I don't feel like I'm being an ostrich about this, or that I'm being particularly zen either. But writing is something *I* can do. Getting an agent to respond to my query? That's out of my hands.

Feel better? (smile)

David 11:39 pm, if you would email me, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Rachelle, I don't comment day that I visit but I always walk away with a greater appreciation for this business.

Writing and publication are two very different things. When I do decide to query you I believe that you will behave as professionally and compassionately as you have on this site.

Well, I'm rather late to this party (a blown pickup engine at 1 AM Monday morning has a way of causing that), but think I will still comment.

I have no problem with the query system. As you said, this is democratic and is not broken. I think an auto-responder message to a query would be a good thing, something like: Your e-mail seems to be a query. I try to respond to as many queries as I can, but because of the large number I simply can't. If you don't here back from me within XX days, consider this as a 'not interested' response. You could change the number of days according to your backlog, current busyness, etc.

What bothers me about the publishing model is when solicited material--say from a conference interview--is ignored. My record with agents is 100 percent non-response to solicited materials. That's only two of two. In both cases I had to send multiple e-mails reminding the agent of the material. One agent even asked that I "badger" him with weekly e-mails until he responded. That felt rather demeaning and useless, but I did what he asked until he sent his response: Your writing is strong.

For what it's worth, my record with editors is the same: 100 percent non-response to solicited materials. Maybe it's just me.

The query process to find an agent is hard on writers, hard on agents, and hard on agency assistants.

But, to be honest, it really does help to prepare you for the submissions process that comes after. And trust me when I say that finding an agent to represent you is only the first big step on the road to publishing.

I just don't get why some writers have to make this such an adversarial process. Not that it will help much, but I kept myself sane by writing my next book while querying. I figured if BOOK A didn't garner me an offer of representation, I'd stop querying when BOOK B was done and start querying that one. And while BOOK B was being queried, I'd write BOOK C.

I didn't sit around placing blame for my lack of success on BOOK A. If BOOK A didn't break me in, then maybe BOOK B would.

After six months of querying and almost 100 queries sent, I finally connected with a few agents who loved BOOK A. It really is about finding the RIGHT agent, and you won't know who that is until you find them. Two of the agents who offered, including the agent I signed with, were people who I hadn't originally included on my list, because I didn't think they'd be a fit with my material. Imagine my surprise.

If your book is ready to be published, you'll find an agent who can see its potential. If you don't find that agent on this book, maybe it'll be your next.

But none of this is anyone's fault. There's no one to blame... not even the writer! Not selling a book doesn't make you a bad writer, or even an unpublishable writer, it just means you might have written an unpublishable manuscript. Or maybe it's just unpublishable right now in this climate.

Brush yourself off and write another. Pointing fingers and whining won't solve anything.

If you want an eye-opening story, look up Stacey Cochran on YouTube. He did a video log of his query process, starting in 2006. Look especially for "Stacey Gets a Check in Mail" in 2008. It was his first check from the publisher after 15 years of writing. After having written 10+ books, he finally received money for his book. The emotion there is amazing.

I watched his videos after only a month of querying and decided then that until I'd spent 15 years at this, I really couldn't complain.

People have done a lot of talking about what it means to be a "Real Writer."

Maybe a real writer accepts the system as it is, and keeps writing and submitting until they write that break-in novel. Whether you like his books or not, I think Stacey Cochran is definitely a "real" writer. And he never once complained about the process.

I know watching videos about that part of his story really helped me.

I'm surprised @ the writer who pities agents who work nights and weekends...isn't that when writers write as well? If 99% of queries are clearly so bad or off-base, why does it take so long to reply to the few gems in the slush? Then why does it take forever to get a response, if agents can tell within the first five pages if they want to read a ms.?

I've actually pulled mss. from an agent's consideration cuz they were taking too long to respond (6 months?!) and it felt damn good!
Who wants that kind of agent anyway, esp since they can't manage their time or clients after so many years in the biz? As a pro writer, I've had to learn to work smarter, not harder--why can't agents learn this too?

Dear Rachelle,
I have absolutely no reason to butter you up, since you don't represent fantasy and that is what I am writing.
So I have no ulterior motive for saying this: I'm sorry!
On behalf of all the bitter, nasty people out there who take the joy out of your job, I'm sorry. I'm not an agent, but I certainly know what it's like to be in situations where you feel constantly harassed.
And feel free to rant... I don't mind! We all need to do that once in a while.
In this case, I think it's a public service.

I don't write what you represent, so there is no conflict of interest here. :)

I appreciate your stating up front a time period by which a writer can consider his/her work rejected in the absence of a reply. I get it that the submissions stack is overwhelming. Yours isn't the only field with circumstances like that. So on the query level, it's nice to have a definite back wall. When there isn't one, writers never know if their query was swallowed by a spam filter, or just rejected.

On the requested material stage, I think some sort of reply is necessary. Most agents give one, but at the same time, I'd guess most writers have had at least one requested submission disappear into the ether. Which can make it hard for the writer to know what to do if someone asks for an exclusive and you don't know what's up with the pages that are out with someone else. (There is a solution: write and withdraw exclusivity.)

The agents I most like to query are the ones with very clearly stated policies regarding expected response times, when to consider a submission dead, and under which circumstances, if any, an agent wants an exclusive. (The Bent Agency has a wonderfully clear policy about this, for example.)

David said:
Good point about Colleen Lindsay, Steve. I think this is a very important aspect of the agent-writer relationship. Lindsay's clients do not work for her, she works for them, yet she would have them approach her as though applying for a job. If she could write, she would be a writer. She isn't.


First off, never assume an agent is a failed writer. Many have no desire to write. And others ARE successful writers and still want to be agents. I have 5 books under contract and I am interning for a literary agency becuase I *STILL* want to be an agent.

Secondly, Ms. Lindsay is not at all off base in relating prospective clients to job hunters. That dynamic changes when she signs you. She IS working for you. But you have to prove yourself by sending submissions just like a job seeker sends resumes, becuase she's going to work hundreds of hours in the *HOPE* she will earn money later. THAT is why YOU must prove to her you're worth it.

Even knowing my agent has sold 5 books, I still have to wonder if the math even works out to minimum wage, becuase she spent two years working to sell my debut.

Agents are simply ont the bad guys, people. They aren't. And if you don't like the way one agent represents themselves, then don't query them.

But as a professional in this business, as someone who has books under contract with the biggest houses in NYC, I wouldn't bat an eye at querying Rachelle or Colleen.

David said:
Good point about Colleen Lindsay, Steve. I think this is a very important aspect of the agent-writer relationship. Lindsay's clients do not work for her, she works for them, yet she would have them approach her as though applying for a job.

Mandy Hubbard already made some great points in response to this. I'm neither published nor agented, but I also know that there's a critical distinction between clients and prospective clients. Clients have already entered into a formal professional relationship with their agent. Prospective clients have not. To continue on with the job analogy, clients already have the job. Prospective clients do not.

As a prospective client I certainly feel all the same frustrations and desires as others who are in the same boat, but when I do land an agent you can bet the house I'll want her to prioritize me above the hundreds of prospective clients she hears from every week.

All current clients were once wanna-bes so agents need to regard queries with anticipation, not dread. If that's the case, maybe they should close for submissions.
When we get offers of representation, guess who'd going to be at the top of our list: the agent who responds in a timely, friendly and helpful manner.

Agents willingly open their doors to submissions so they must be prepared to handle the influx of queries in a civilized, timely manner.

Disclosure: I am a published and agented writer (although not with Rachelle).

Here's what I think.

YES, the system sucks in a lot of ways - but as I have said before and I have, apparently, to keep on saying - publication is a privilege, not a right. Nobody owes anybody anything at all, just because they've written a book. Yes, I agree that there should be responses. Yes, I agree they should be timely. Yes, I would love to have all my emails and letters and phonecalls answered instantly.

It ain't gonna happen. NOBODY does that. You call a plumber or an accountant and leave a message, they'll take a little while to get back to you. And THEY don't get 100+ calls a day.

Yes, "wait" is a four letter word in the publishing world. Yes. I'd love for my own agent to drop everything and respond to my every email by return of email, as it were, instantly. She doesn't, but she does respond - as soon as her circumstances allow her to. I am not her ONLY client.

Agents and writers do have an interesting relationship. It isn't strictly speaking an employer/employee thing, and it does change subtly when an agent signs up a writer, Until the moment that happens, the AGENT is the one making the selection. After it happens, the agent is working on the writer's behalf. So in some ways the agents are interviewing THEMSELVES for this job - they'll sign UP a writer, but they'll also sign ON to be that writer's voice and presence in the publishing arena and the signing up process is a prerequisite to them accepting a job offer from the author ("are you willing and able to represent me?") I should think it stands to reason that the agent would exercise due diligence in this.

Where does that leave the writer? For all the position of "power" in the relationship in that they are the "employer", the writer's livelihood and reputation depend on how good their agent is. So yes, the writer is employing the agent TECHNICALLY but the writer is dependent on that agent once he or she is hired. SOunds like a small difference, but it MATTERS.

Finding the right match between an agent and a writer can be harder than it appears. THe best writer in the world might be a bad match for a particular agent, if nothing else than personality-wise. Hence, the query letters. It allows the two parties to take the necessary time to size each other up.

YES IT TAKES TIME. Pick up your packet of patience at the door when you enter the writer's life. It comes with the job. If you can't wait, perhaps you should be doing something that has a more instant gratification to it.

Agents are there to ALLOW the writers to write. The rejected writers may think there's a conspiracy - there isn't. It's just that there are limited seats in the lifeboats, and they aren't going to take on people who just look like they want to go out on a SUnday sail. Are you serious about this writing lark? Then pay your dues. Wait.

I think that one thing gets left out here. The situation with agents was not always this intense or difficult.

When I was first professionally published 30 years ago, there were many more publishing houses than there are now. Each publishing house employed legions of first readers and manuscripts came mostly over the transom.

Following the corporate buyouts and mergers that began in the early 80s, both the number of publishing houses and those legions of first readers were lost in the shuffle to maximize profits.

In order to make up for these changes, it fell to agents to do the job that those first readers did. More and more of the dwindling number of publishers began to go "agent only" on what they would read in order to keep from being swamped.

Instead the agents got swamped.

I don't see a real cure for the situation.

So stop the griping. Starts here.

The current corporate paradigm that makes things difficult for agents and thus for authors is a world that the agents did not create.

I think that most of them do a very fine job of coping with the changes. Today's agents have it a lot tougher than the previous generations and their coping mechanisms ought to be respected, not railed against.

I would be proud just to have an agent like you. I love the fire. Great job. If more people attacked the source of the problem instead of the easiest one to blame the world wouldn't be in the shape that it's in.

Meta-griping!

This is a delightful post.

What frustrates me the most is when people do something stupid, get famous for it, and then get a book deal because of it. I won't name names.

I used to struggle with this all the time, but I've decided that reading the bad books makes you appreciate the good books even more!

Rachelle:

What you wrote is POWERFUL; and honoring to God and God's ways. It is how people become closer to God.

It is wonderful of you to admit those things. We are all like that; and you are a great example of how to deal with our attitudes, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in the end, you find that book to be one of the most benificial you've ever read: because you are willing to let God USE that book in your life.

My hope is to encourage those that are writing FOR God. I always try to encourage them that: God will use your writing as He wishes. He knows if you are doing it FOR Him.
The book Rachelle is refering to could be a perfect example of that. It may lack in human proffesionalism; but be a work which pleases God: and He is using it. It may be just like God says in the Bible: God chooses to USE people and things that often seem foolish to man.

Please don't anyone read something wrong from my comments. I mean them only for good; not in judgement.

I appreciate your willingness to share your humanity Rachelle. I agree with Writer Jim - these are the real points in life that demonstrate where our hearts are! We all sit in unrighteous judgment - the question is, which of us is ready to turn that gavel over to Him?

On a side note - I've found the same thing happens with people I meet. Sometimes I meet someone who's very hard work for one reason or another and yet...the book behind that cover turns out to be a very special blessing when I stop judging and start loving.

On a slightly related note, what I find baffling is how completely I can lose myself in books that I know aren't especially good. There is one writer I won't name, whose prose is hyperbolic, melodramatic and everything else I dislike. But the plots draw me in so much that I have made it a policy only to read these books on my day off work. Otherwise I will sit up all night to finish them and be a sleepy mess the following day.

So I agree with this. I think that the flaws in books have as much to teach us as the virtues.

I appreciate this post and the bigger principle. I have strong opinions about everything from pretzels to politics. What I have to watch is missing something(like the opportunities to connect with your daughter that you mentioned); or worse, quenching someone else's passion with mine.

I've often picked up novels by bestselling authors whose earlier books I really enjoyed, but couldn't finish a later work. But I continue to see new ane established authors turn out books with comon mistakes that newbies are never allowed to make, usually in the opening chapter (s): Too much (take your pick): backstory dialogue description, predictable or stale plots, etc. etc. Why the double-standard?

I guess I just chalk it up to "this is the world." The world is full of all kinds of things we either like or dislike, and it sort of seems pointless to focus on the latter (though we are all guilty of obsessing over such things at times). If we are reading a poorly written book, we can always close it, or, like you did in this case, continue reading and pull out of it whatever we can. I guess I try to concentrate less on, "Boy, there sure are a lot of bad books out there" and more on, "How can I make my book the very best it can be?" When I happen upon one of those poorly written books, I see it as a challenge to search out the more stellar ones (and to keep learning how to write one of my own), because I KNOW they are out there, too. :)

I just stop reading them!

When I read a book that I think is horrible, I usually stop as soon as it starts annoying me, then I keep my opinion to myself! A lot of times I actually know the writer, at least on a superficial basis. I would never want to criticize them publicly. I also remind myself of the fact that there are certainly a lot of people who DID enjoy the book--as I can easily see by looking at reviews on Amazon.com. So I just keep my opinion to myself.

Until another friend tells me (Privately) that she hated the book! Then it's scary how much I can get into bashing it! I have to hold back and realize that a little jealousy may be coming out. Have to stop that in its tracks.

A couple of years ago, I bought a book that was so wretchedly bad it was painful to try to read it. I felt sorry for the author, embarrassed for her that anything that lame was out there for all the world to see. Then I noticed in one of my rambles through the book store that it is the first in a series!
That horrible book instantly become my inspiration. It now has a place of honor on the shelf right above my monitor, and whenever I get frustrated I look up at it and tell myself that if that author could get several books published, I can as well!

I've read many an unpleasant book in my day - some lacked a believable (or entertaining) plot, some were poorly written, some were poorly edited, and some were just plain boring. But I've never taken that personally, or gotten upset that such a thing could be published. I'm not one to judge my worth by what others have or have not accomplished, so it doesn't matter to me what gets published or not, except that some bad books can give the rest of us a harder time selling our own.

Anon 7:30

Why the double standard?

It's the obvious. They know readers will buy that authors book. They don't REALLY care about a book being the best it could be. They care about easy money,,,even if they end up unneccessarily disappointing their customer. In that respect, they are just like so many other type of businesses.

Two thoughts:

1. My brain was fried yesterday, and I wanted something light to read for awhile. Pulled the 1st Nancy Drew mystery off my daughter's bookshelf. (I know you told us not to mention specific titles, so I won't.) Ha. I read every single ND mystery when I was younger, and yesterday my jaw dropped lower with every paragraph. I kept thinking, "Seriously? Seriously?" (I still read the whole thing--that Nancy is amazing.)

2. This is a little different, but there are a couple pastors I've listened to over the years that just don't "do anything for me." I've slowly and painfully learned that it's not about me. I have to ask God to soften my heart, open it up, and speak to me regardless of the speaker's style.

I try to let it encourage me rather than frustrate me. I want my book to be the best it can be, but it'll never be perfect, and seeing bad books out there makes me think that it doesn't matter if it's perfect, I just have to find someone who loves it. (I have a feeling I might be singing a different tune when I've been at this for longer, though!)

I also think I learn from bad examples just as much as good ones. Sometimes I read things and go: "Note to self. DO NOT DO THAT."

One of the best responses to this question was given by my favorite author, Madeleine L'Engle.
L'Engle states that during her decade of rejection, she saw a book that had recently been published and bemoaned the fact that it was horrible. Her husband, trying to cheer her up said she should be happy, knowing her stuff is way better than that. L'Engle said, "No. If it was better than mine, I could handle that. I deserved to be published!" I understand. When I read something that is sheer genius,I'm happy, elated. But coming across something that's, shall we say, not our cup of tea, it's hard to cope.

Thanks for the honesty, Rachelle, and the chance to be honest!

Jen

Hi Rachelle, You and I have talked about this very thing, so you know it's a hot button for me. The way I deal with it is by reminding myself that God had a plan for that person, and that there are many people out there who liked it (as seen by the best-seller lists). Ugh.

But as far as reading it...nope. You're one up on me there, because I won't finish it. I'll give a book 10-20 pages and if I haven't gotten into it by then, I'll stop reading it. There are far too many good books out there and never enough time to waste on a bad one.

And yes, the inner editor is almost always on...unless I find a gem and it takes me away! Gotta love those books!

BRAGGING?

If I sound like bragging, I am truly sorry. But after reading so many comments about bad writing; I want to try to further encourage those many... that I'm sure are writing FOR God.

Long ago when I first started my book, I knew ZERO about correct writing rules. In fact, my writing was sometimes described as "some hillbilly."
However, some of my BAD BAD BAD writing was passed around from person to person, and sent off to their friends, etc etc.

MY writing was HORRIBLE; but it had RESULTS, because it was written FOR God.
An average man read some, and at 4AM woke up his family to say "I can't wait. I have to tell you now; I am repenting. I will be different from now on."
A leading preacher (who prided himself in his Washington connections, and being seen with Pres. Bush) read some of my writing, and on his TV program made a 180 turn publicly on an important matter. He also made it mandatory that all his subordinates read my writing that he possesed.
Now I have an excellent editor to make my writing BETTER. I may soon advance from a hillbilly to a good ole country boy.
To all those writing FOR God; I again encourage you: GOD is aware of your efforts. No one or writing rules can stop God from honoring your efforts whatever way He chooses.

My husband and I have talked about this a lot. I am very opinionated about about this topic, because I love and respect the written word.

I have concluded that I do not have to turn off my quality sensor. I agree with you about the presence of worthy books which I may not personally enjoy. There are numerous literary works which are finely crafted and I can recognize that and appreciate it, even when I do not care for a particular book (it just isn't my type) or genre. I can appreciate that there are a wide variety of tastes and readers.

However, there are concrete things that make good writing, in any genre. While I am no expert, I know what some of these are, and I do not need to pretend that these elements, which are abundantly present in great books, do not matter.

If a book is of poor quality, if it's clear that it has been thrown together quickly with little thought and effort, this is quite evident. I can point to specifics. And I am not wrong to do so -- as long as I am kind and diplomatic, as long as I am not rude to another writer or the fans of the book.(Mostly, this means my opinion remains private or shared with a few close friends)

Ultimately, I'm talking about craftsmanship. It matters. We readily recognize the differences between a product that is finely crafted by hand and one that made from plastic and sold at discount stores. There will always be a market for cheap products. They fulfill a different function.

I'm a bargain shopper. I enjoy Walmart, Target, and Dollar Stores. I'm grateful for discounts and the variety of products available for my selection. But I don't pretend that discount stores are the same as fine stores.

There is reading that is simply quick entertainment and there is literature that is art. I never need to pretend they are the same or that they are equally valuable. Forgettable books are, well, forgettable. Great books are food for the soul.

Like someone else mentioned, I give myself permission to quit reading something if I don't think it's good. The way I see it, I only have a finite amount of time on this earth to read and I'm not going to waste it!

When I read a published book that *I* think is really bad, I feel slightly discouraged but then I usually dissolve into hysterical laughter. Everyone has different tastes, styles, and preferences.

My English professor in college was a published writer back then but now he is wildly successful and a mega-celebrity in the literary world. I dutifully try to read each of his new books (checking them out of the library, NOT buying them) but I end up cringing and quitting because I think they are so bad. As I said, though, he's wildly successful so obviously a lot of people disagree with my humble opinion.

Thank God He didn't make us all the same! I agree with Writer Jim that God uses us all in different ways in His time. Writer Jim is very wise, by the way. I wish he had a blog for us to visit.

I am a walking grammar/spell check. I literally have to repent sometimes when I read "good" books which are poorly edited. I think to myself, I am working so hard to create good literature, find an agent, and present my work to the outside world...and this "person" writes dribble; can't even type the word teh (LOL): yet sells a million copies. I catch myself going back to edit blog entries over and again (two months after I've written them for gosh sake). I do love a good read, regardless of whether they know who vs. whom (I still have to look it up in the usage book from time to time myself). So I suppose my pet peeve is more in the grammar than anything. It makes me lose focus.

As recently as a year ago this Really Bad Book issue still bothered me. Now I accept it, like other unpleasant realities about the world. :-) I don't give it much thought.

It doesn't really matter to me who else gets published.

I care whether *my* story reaches an audience, and, just as importantly, whether it does so in a form in which I still care about it and can be pleased that I published it. Different authors have differing missions. Each one needs to find an editor who loves the purpose of her work, as well as her story and her writing.

It doesn't bother me if someone publishes a book I would not want to publish under my name. That author has a different mission from me. I want to accomplish my mission, not just to publish. And that's a highly personal quest that has nothing to do with anyone else's life or work.

I'm generally an incredibly picky reader anyway. It's not always because I think the book is poorly written, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I give it 50-100 pages and if I don't connect with the characters or story, I put it down or take it back to the library.

When it's because I think the book is just poorly written, it's frustrating. But I just tell myself that there's some one out there that likes it...enough someones that it was published in the first place :P

What irks me is when you know an author is capable of good writing but turns out drivel--maybe they were poorly edited or rushing to meet a deadline? I've had pieces published that embarassed me cuz the editor had to put *her* stamp on it and change it beyond recognition. Maybe it's the same with books?

I think most readers are ... readers.

We know that we must suspend our disbelief and allow ourselves to be immersed into the author’s world. So, if the story and characters are compelling, and the writing doesn’t blatantly get in the way, many readers will mine through the written words to get to the story.

One particular series comes to mind. My daughter loves this series, but I couldn’t fathom how anyone read past the second chapter. Out of sheer determination, I pushed on with my teeth clenched – and about halfway through – something remarkable happened. I suppose I became engaged in the story and my internal projector turned on. The voice of the author and the words on the page disappeared. Only the story remained and it played across the screen of my imagination.

I had managed to take the suspension of my disbelief to an entirely new level. Now, at long last, I understood.

Discerning readers and many writers find it difficult, if not impossible, to get past the writing, but some readers have no problem reading past the words.

Could I do it again? Perhaps, with enough effort, but I am not the series’ target audience and I don’t feel compelled to do it again. However, I congratulate the author. I am grateful to any author who can attract an entire generation to reading.

YES! This frustrates me all to pieces, especially when I read a book by a successful author that does all the No-No's my book was rejected for! How are we supposed to learn to do it "right" when stuff like that is published all the time!

Which makes me think maybe there isn't a "right", it's all subjective. You just have to find an editor who finally likes your version of "right."

I think the natural assumption that almost every reader makes is that every book is written for them. And if they don't like it, then the book has failed at its job (and thus it's a Really Bad Book). But this isn't true. In fact, the vast majority of books probably aren't written for you. They're written for someone else. And that's okay.

I think part of the problem is that readers will get drawn into reading something and think "This book is for me!" And when it's not they feel a little tricked. The cover art, the blurbs, the synopsis... it all seemed to say that this book was for me. But it wasn't! False advertizing! And I spent ten bucks on this Really Bad Book!

Unfortunate... but inevitable. And also probably not the book's fault. You take a chance on every book... and some of those chances are rewarded more than others.

Just my take.

Bryan Russell

Lea Ann McCombs, you've hit the nail on the head with this observation:

"Which makes me think maybe there isn't a 'right', it's all subjective. You just have to find an editor who likes your version of right."

Absolutely!

Yes, often frustrating but, like you, I don't begrudge anyone their success in publishing. There are a lot of hoops to jump through, so much perseverance required, etc. More power to them.

I've finished seven novels, self-published two of them. So when I read one which makes me gag for many of the reasons you described, I wonder . . . But those that I hated, others loved. So there you go.

The Lord directs my steps so why should I complain? He's in charge. They're his novels. End of story.

When I read a "bad" passage in a book, I remember when I've read my own writing, wanted to cry (or actually cried), and sworn off writing forever for the inadequacy of my work. I sympathize with those who try, and those who are published. Writing is frightfully hard.

As for the internal editor? Well, this music major listens to six-year-olds make music all day long. I don't turn my 'editor' off; I just attune it to hear beauty in a different way. I wonder how much beauty we miss because we have a box of "rules", and the beauty doesn't fit in the box.

I don't think God boxes things up like we do. Which is why six-year-olds singing--with wrong notes, botches lyrics and missed entrances--makes people cry just as much as a sparkling Mozart symphony. Or perhaps even more.

This was a post that I needed to hear. I often find myself jealous or frustrated when I see other writers getting published, or hear people that don't seem to know anything about books try to write and publish them.

I'm trying to move past that! I want to be happy that others love books and writing, too, and to be happy when other people get published before I do, because of course other people will. It's hard, though, but hopefully I'll come to the point where I feel genuine happiness for others' successes.

What frustrates me is I do my best to write without using the passive voice, gerunds, adverbs, etc. and then I see a best-selling book with all the above. I know rules are meant to be broken, but I've see a lot of this recently. I've heard that editors are afraid to "edit" because they are best-selling authors. I wonder how their agents respond to this.

I read quite a few books this summer that I put down and moaned, "If only they'd done XYZ, this book would've been amazing!" I was frustrated because as a savvy reader I got annoyed at the authors who had an amazing story but who obviously didn't take the time to properly learn craft.
There were moments I had to work not to be bitter and grumble about why they got published and I didn't. But it also put it in perspective for me--hey, if a good story that's not well-written can be published, think how much easier an original, well-written story can be published!
(Also, reading bad books taught, more than anything, on what to avoid!)

Hmm... I'd be curious what the Amazon rating's are on said book. It would be interesting to note what the masses have said regarding the writing and overall enjoyability. Lord knows I've read books that made me gag but my friends loved and swore by. I'm currently writing a series for the 12 y.o. and up sect because I think the pickings are limited, questionable, and inappropriate books abound for that age range. Honestly, YA is very difficult to navigate from a Christian point of view. There needs to be more variety outside of prairies and bonnets for our girls to read. (I love me some prairies and bonnets but like all good things, in moderation ;) OK. rant over *whew* I feel better.

About a year ago a friend suggested that I read Anne Lamott's, Bird by Bird. I picked it up 2 weeks ago and it has brought me more sanity than 3 years of anti-depressants. Much to my surprise, I am not steadily losing my mind...I'm just a writer.

I think that, in order to survive this business, we have to be hard-wired with strong opinions. Agents, publishers and authors must maintain this strength in order to bring to fruition the stories that live within us. I used to feel bad when I read books that I considered to be poorly written - not wanting to judge other writers. Now, I just don't read them.

I'm relieved that even some bad books make it to the shelves. Hopefully I'll eventually write a good book that will also make it to the shelf.

Love your blog, Rachelle. Thanks for sharing your life with us.

Can writers read objectively?

Years ago, my wife and I were having lunch in the park. A 5-year-old boy was bickering with his (apparent) sister. I let my wife know it was annoying me. She said it didn't bother her - not her responsibility. Besides, she was on "Mom Break."

Later, the boy’s behavior shifted to disrespect – to his (apparent) mother. As we were leaving, my wife mentioned to the young mom that authority is more easily established before boys weigh 50 pounds. When I asked her for an explanation for the intervention, she said something about ‘categorical professional courtesy.’

Maybe this illustration fits the Pet Peavers better.

Should this tell us that perhaps the rules for "good" writing we're all trying to learn are actually just conventions preferred by the publishing industry?

As more of a trained musician versus someone who is enjoying learning the craft of writing, I struggle with the same phenomenon in the music world. The number of untalented, famous and "successful" artists is mind-boggling.

Life is too short to read bad books. If I'm not captivated by the first 3 chapters, I put it down. There are many books I have bought based on their place on the best seller lists, and I have been disappointed often. How do you know if it's going to be good? That's just it -- you don't.

But I trust you opinion, so have you read any good books lately?

YOUR opinion...I trust your opinion Not "you" opinion. Sorry.

The stuff I notice and pick apart in books, probably goes right over "normal" people's heads.

AMEN!! We DONT read like "normal" readers....And Katie (was it Katie?) I went through a phase about a year after I started writing where I didn't read for *gasp* almost 2 years! And for just the reason you stated--I couldn't turn off that internal editor.

I won't waste my time reading books that don't grab me. I know that sounds kind of mean, but my free time is very limited!

More often than not, if I don't finish a book it's because it's just a 'meh' book but sometimes I get one that makes me cringe/angry. To be honest, that's VERY rare!

I think what tips the scales for me, as a reader, is great characters. If the characterization rocks but the writing is so-so, I can hang for a while :D

I started reading a book on the airplane the other day. It is a HUGE book. HUGE. The writing was okay. The story seemed very disjointed--many, many multiple paths, but okay. Big book. I went with it.

The book isn't BAD. But about halfway through, I've reached the point where--most of the characters I could stomach reading about have either been killed off or become someone I don't like enough to stick with. (There's One semi-likable character left...) Events are going downhill and I'm afraid I will have to plow through another huge chunk of pages to get to the place where they MAYBE start going back up again. I'm just not having fun. So I doubt I'm going to finish it.

I don't feel too bad about the not-finishing. I didn't pay too much for it, and while it's in a genre I often read, it's in a slightly different sub-genre. I think if the book weren't quite so long, I might have finished it. I read enough pages that in a "normal" book, I'd have finished it by now. And I'm only about halfway through. So--

It's not a Bad book. It's well written. I enjoyed reading it till the characters I liked got killed off (though I did sometimes thing there was a bit too much exposition--others who read this genre like that sort of thing.) Life's too short, though, to spend so much time on something that's not fun any more.

I spent a lot of time and energy labeling books good or bad. Then I read a poorly written book this past winter. The characters were under developed. The plot was obvious. The language was repetitive and tedious. I couldn't put it down. As a writer it made me furious.
Why was the book so poorly written and so addictive at the same time?
I've had a few months to think about it, and I have come to the conclusion that different writers have different skills. Some can make something catchy and therefor hit the best seller list. Some can invent compelling scenarios. Some can create deep and fascinating characters. I think all these aspects are what make a book great, but good or bad in the end comes down to taste. In the end, each reader has a different score sheet to decide what makes a book good.
I know, cop-out. But books that are poorly written must still have some redeeming quality. Either that or we have to give in to the idea that we are unintelligent masses, over internet-ed and over TV-ed. If that's the case, what does it matter if the book is bad?

JM Prescott
http://sites.google.com/site/prescottstories/

Your post reminds me of the line from The Guernsey Book, "Reading good books ruins you for enjoying bad books."

I'll admit, I get very, very frustrated when I read traditionally published books that stink. But I guess there's something out there for every taste.

I am a newbie to writing...

I read a series that had me sleeping. The first book was captivating, but the others just made me think the writer was reaching. Constantly recounting scenes from the previous books. Writing all but one book in one form, and the final book in the complete opposite. I did finish them all, but it took a long time because I didn't care. Yet I needed to find out if it would captivate me on the final book. That answer is NO!

I really hate to say this, but I will never buy this author again! Nor would I recommend the books.

Thank you to my twitter friends for recommending a great series after this torture. I loved that series!

I don't have the expertise to be thinking about the technical aspects of the writing, but I know that when a book doesn't appeal to me I will stop reading. Regardless of whether it is a best seller, an Oprah book club hit, etc.
I think overall I have been encouraged by the books that are able to reach the intended readers regardless of their format , style, formula or adherence to the so called right way to write.
I guess sometimes I like to think of words strung together as a form of art , and there is just something poetic about that.

I don't have the expertise to be thinking about the technical aspects of the writing, but I know that when a book doesn't appeal to me I will stop reading. Regardless of whether it is a best seller, an Oprah book club hit, etc.
I think overall I have been encouraged by the books that are able to reach the intended readers regardless of their format , style, formula or adherence to the so called right way to write.
I guess sometimes I like to think of words strung together as a form of art , and there is just something poetic about that.

I don't have the expertise to be thinking about the technical aspects of the writing, but I know that when a book doesn't appeal to me I will stop reading. Regardless of whether it is a best seller, an Oprah book club hit, etc.
I think overall I have been encouraged by the books that are able to reach the intended readers regardless of their format , style, formula or adherence to the so called right way to write.
I guess sometimes I like to think of words strung together as a form of art , and there is just something poetic about that.

Rachelle: Thank you for posting this so that we may all learn, one from another. Having read some bad books myself, I came to the conclusion that no one is perfect and that these people tried their best to succeed in writing. Everyone has their own ideas that they want to share and find that someone will appreciate them just for trying. Others will decide its not for themselves and discard the book. Just pray for them and ask God to bring wisdom into that persons life. Mary W.

I'm so thankful you wrote this! Sometimes books that I don't particularly enjoy give me hope. They make me think that I have a chance because that book did. Sometimes they make me mad, because I wonder if that book make it "over" mine. And then I get determined to make mine even better, so that the next Book That Doesn't Appeal won't edge my novel out!

Subjectivity is definitely a HUGE thing. Hopefully one day someone will love my work as much as someone else loves the books I don't care for. I truly wish those other authors the best... The vast audience we reach means that there's room for all of us!

nice, i can understand where you are coming from with the so many books out there that jst need a fixing, the world (for us and books) would be a much better place(for reading)

Hmmm...I wonder if only published novelists should comment on this one? :)

As I read all the above, there are so many writers whom I wish to be blessed with success.
But remember, one of the greatest things you can do: is tell others about Jesus, and how they can receive eternal life thru trust in Him. If you do that FOR God, you will be super successful, because God will be working with you in that endevour. And God will credit you for those efforts.
I believe if you become a faithful witness for Christ; then you will become closer to God. When one is close to God, I think it's more likely you'll find help from God in your writing endevours. Conversely, if you are a prideful know-it-all type individual, I doubt you'll find that help from God. The Bible says that prideful people cannot be close to God.

I use badly written books, or badly structured books, as an example of what NOT to do in my own writing. And I KNOW if those books got published, my novel will too ... when the manuscript is ready for submission. ;-)

Once the typos in books were explained as a typesetting error rather than author error I think I simmered down a lot.

I know every book won't appeal to me. As much as I love to read, I'm a very picky reader. I have books I adore that I simply can't read in some moods. It's not that they aren't great books, it's that the book isn't great for me in that mood.

So I try to cut other people some slack. They can get published, I don't have to like it. As long as I'm not forced to read those books that don't appeal I take a live and let live attitude.

Story sells. That’s nothing new. Story will even sell a RBB. That’s how important story is to readers. To “show” is divine. But a great tale poorly told sells more books than a poor tale divinely written.

A mediocre athlete cannot have a professional career. A mediocre writer with a great story to tell (and a great agent) can make it a profession.

As one who has always aspired to mediocrity, I find encouragement from a book that makes me feel like I’m receiving a root canal. It inspires me to endure the agony of writing (poorly) a bestselling series while I slave for twenty more years in my damp basement to write a book beyond my gifts.

Little know fact. There is a sub-circle of Hell where, not unlike Sisyphus, a writer must for eternity read a mobius strip containing everything he/she has ever published, while listening to Ben Stein and Fran Drescher simultaneously recite bad reviews.

If you work hard and do your best your gift will make room for itself. Just don’t blame a lit agent if your gift is bricklaying. :)

I just recently blogged about something similar to this. I like to get absorbed in the story when I read a book, and I get disappointed when something jars me out of the story and makes me think about the writing. I didn't name the book I was reading, but I was disappointed that some of the dialog seemed unnatural. However, I stuck with it and ended up enjoying the book very much despite the weaknesses (that I perceived).

Yep, bugs me. It's at those times I think it's (from a writer's perspective) who you know more than what you know.

You know?

Someone mentioned above (I forget now after reading the many comments) that she pushed through a really bad book and discovered she enjoyed the story.

That happened to me this summer. I writer for children and teens and was getting ready to teach a workshop FOR teens on writing. So I picked up the first book in a wildy successful series to see what all hoopla was about. The first 3/4 of the book was BORING. Even my 16-year-old daughter agreed on that point. But when the action picked up in the last 1/4th, I sat up and read and couldn't put it down. After that, I read the other three books and enjoyed them very much, keeping the mental editing to a minimum.

Sometimes it's worth sticking with a book. But I don't want to take that chance with my own writing, so I'll keep working and learning.

Thank you for writing this because I had just such an experience last weekend. While I did thoroughly enjoy the "story", I had a lot of issues with the "writing" and it has me thinking along the same lines.

You nailed it as usual, Rachelle. It's especially frustrating for those of us waiting to be "overnight sensations" to read with the whispers of our critics in our heads. We want to argue, "But she used an LY word!" or "Look how many times the narrator told what that character was doing instead of the character doing it?" But books are like people who look at each other to think, "Well, she has pretty eyes, but did you see that butt on her?" No book, like no person, is all bad. Well, maybe some of them are. :-)

I read once about some celebrity who had written a book - it's been ages, I can't remember who it was - but she said, "You're doing well if 1/3 of the people love you, 1/3 of the people hate you, and 1/3 of the people don't care." That works inverted, too, I think. If I hate a book, I'm just part of that 1/3. It takes all kinds!

I'm glad you addressed this topic, Rachelle. The more I learn about the craft of writing, the more I notice what, in my opinion, seems Really Bad.

It doesn't annoy me too much--I find I don't finish those RB books, though.

I DO get annoyed that Boo Boo who can't write any better than my son's pet tortoise can write a book and get on the best-seller list for committing crimes while in office. I don't have to name names; take your pick on that one.

I try to be as open minded as possible and yes, at times it does cause me frustration and resentment, and I oft times find myself wondering how the material ever made it into print. However I know the author was writing to a "target" audience and as they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" or "To each his/her own".
If the "words" in a book can inspire, encourage, engage, impart knowledge or give hope, then that and that alone helps me to keep it all in perspective.

I just figure if a "really bad book" can find an agent/publisher - than there's hope for me (because my writers' group thinks my work is (1) interesting, (2) different - from typical woman protagonist novel, and (3) good writing/story/theme.

G. Fairbanks

I find it to be encouraging - that means I could write a book that someone might not right and it could STILL get published!

Okay - these are halarious! I LOVE Don's...his seriously made me laugh out loud.

Sorry, right now I got nothin'. I'll try to come back later to play.

I get similar questions all the time. I wrote an article on my blog called, “Advice to First-Time Authors.” When I get the question in Twitter (which I do several times a day). I just tweet this: “I would start by reading my post, ‘Advice to First Time Authors.’ It provides step-by-step guidance: http://is.gd/cqVr.” I even have it tied to a macro via Typnator, so I type three characters, hit the space bar, and the tweet is posted.

Thanks to my husband (who is even more sarcastic than me...shocking I know) I have an even better link to give him:

http://tinyurl.com/ojug73

Learn the craft by attending conferences or workshops, join a writer's group, read blogs, write an excellent story, rewrite several times, study the market, submit queries and write another story while you wait. And wait. And wait.

"Advice? You are cracked nuts in a hand basket for wanting to do exactly what you're doing. Knowing how much of a struggle it is, allow me to spare you from a spiral into obsessive madness. STOP IT NOW."

Okay, in the spirit of FUNNY and NOT serious:

*sure! get their home address from yellowpages.com & pay them a visit. Face to face, man!

*Stalk them. Agents LOVE LOVE LOVE stalkers.

*Send them a lot of money & chocolate. Bribery WORKS, dude!

Ohhhhh, since Michael Hyatt had a GREAT answer to your dilemma too... (and really, I like his answer... linking them to a specific post) you could just go for the:

*Sure! Follow Michael Hyatt on twitter and ask him! He won't mind...

LOL Krista's cracked me up!

Sorry about your day. :-( At least the guy didn't get all upset, which I didn't even think your answer was so bad.

I like other people's answers about googling. Seriously, you can find an answer to probably any question just by searching around the net for a bit.

Thanks for giving me an idea for a morning tweet.

I actually answered Chris and suggested he read the current issue of Writer's Digest, which contains a gold-mine of info about securing an agent. And he tweeted back his thanks.
That having been said, if asked for the Twitter version of this advice, I'd say "Attend writers' conferences, read agents' blogs, polish and re-polish your work until it shines, and learn something from every rejection."
Can't make you laugh with my answer, but I will tell you that, in Texas at least, a "conniption" is the contraction for "conniption fit," another description for a convulsion.

Hi, I'm new here, found this to be fun.

Here are my silly answers:

1) Don't ask on twitter because it makes you look desperate.

2) How about asking God for an agent?

I also loved the answers above about stalking them! LOL! These are funny but unfortunately they have probably all been done! Shocking!

Glad I found your blog, I'm sure I will learn loads of important things.

Sonya Lee

You must have a writing credits to get an agent and you must have an agent to submit to an editor. Try reading Catch-22

How about:

"Glad you asked. I've formulated a guarenteed method of success, and for 4 easy installments of $19.95, I'll be willing to send it to you."

:-)

Tell me, is there anywhere on this blog I can leave a response to your post?

WOW, I'm loving all these hilarious responses! Thanks for making me laugh -- and keep 'em coming!

I'm enjoying the serious answers too. Now I'll have a whole stockpile.

Iain Broome -- Sorry, I don't allow comments on this blog.

1) Bribe the agent with a yearly supply of coffee or 2) Write a damn good book and an even better query.

The process of finding an agent is similar to the tryouts on American Idol…Simon will tell you to give up, Randy will tell you to try again with better material and Paula will give you a hug while you have a meltdown…or kindly use your inappropriate Tweet as basis for a funny blog post.

Procuring an agent is one part stalking, two parts who you know and three parts …
Bippity Boppity Boo…

An agent? Why would you want an agent? Do it yourself, and you get to keep ALLLLL your money!!

I've heard better agent pickup lines! *wink* Read my blog like everyone else - best advice ever!


We all have knee-jerk emotions that seem to spew out at the wrong time. I've done it myself and hopefully haven't ruined my chances with any agents on my comments for being overly-defensive. The first step is admittance. Let me know how the rest goes...that's as far as I've gotten. :D

Incidentally… I was reading stories about mystical things to my daughter last night and “Bonus Procurator”- Latin for: Good Agent was listed along with Big Foot, The Lost City of Atlantis and WMDs.

Hide in the bushes, make noises like a three-book deal. They’ll find you.

Response: Why didn't you say so? I've been desperate for new queries from those who have not researched.

Uhh? In 140 characters or less? I think you did it already.

Write a great book. Query agents.

The only thing I'd add to that is:

Write a great book. Query agents, but not before its great. First and second drafts are rarely great.

"No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night."

or

"Did you check the sofa cushions?"

My 140-character response:
Visit my blog:xxxx. I give helpful writing and agent advice daily.

Forget about writing. Starting RIGHT NOW, spend every waking moment mastering the query.

52 characters left for "hahaha..."

(the word verification for this comment was "rumvice" - what one gives when people ask questions that catch one off guard)

I don't know where they are either but I do know they are NOT in elevators, hotel rooms or bathroom stalls during writers conferences.

My suggested answer:

Google: Nathan Bransford, Rachelle Gardener, Janet Reid, Miss Snark, Kristen Nelson, BookEnds. READ BLOGS IN THEIR ENTIRETY. Come back with specific questions.

The next time someone asks you if you have advice for a writer, just say "Yes." (you never said you'd GIVE them the advice, just that you had it).

Rachel Heston Davis
www.rachelhestondavis.wordpress.com

Considering some of your recent posts, you could have told him:

Ask God to tell you to write a book so you can let the agent know she'd better not turn down God.

Holly Bodger, that link is awesome! It's the clean version of the "Just F------ Google It Already" webpage...

Self-publish your book. If it sells 100,000 copies, call me. If not, it was rubbish anyway. Start over.

Write amazing book. Get it edited. Query. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Send cake. Ms inside. Purple paper. Lots of sparkles on top. In SASE.

See all the acronyms makes it look legit.

1. Find a haystack.
2. Get a needle.
3. Poke around until you hear one scream.

Since we're talking about using a Tweet, it must be a short response. Maybe you can reply with something like this:

Burn your first draft in a pagan ritual to Nabu and spread the ashes across your desk. Breathe the smoky vapors and visualize publication.

That will fit in one tweet and maybe send them off trying to figure out who Nabu is (incidentally, he was a Babylonian God thought to have provided the invention of writing to man).

I'm new at the whole writing business, so I'm not sure I can say much. But I suppose if I were a Rachelle Gardner, and I was asked that question, I would say:

"Please hold while I dispose of the other 456,997 characters it would take to adequately answer your question."

Loving this blog and all the info!

~Brenda

Not much I can add to this except Matt's comment: "Hide in the bushes, make noises like a three-book deal. They’ll find you" just about made me fall out of my chair. Good one!

And by the way - a conniption fit is something we know all about in the South because they happen a lot down here. They are worse than a dying-duck fit but not as bad as a hissy fit, but then you have a conniption fit for different reasons than you have a hissy fit. A conniption fit involves muttering and yelling. A hissy fit involves throwing things and sometimes guns, depending on whether there is a cheating husband involved. I do not have a cheating husband but I do try to have at least one of each fit daily. Keeps the blood flowing, know what I mean?

Too funny! This is so weird cause I was thinking of blogging about "finding an agent" over on mybooktherapy.com today. A little insight from an author. :)

What I think when some one tweets an agent, "Do you have any advice on finding a literary agent?" is they are trying to get YOUR attention.

They want a response like, "Sure, send me a proposal."

Ack, thinking back, I'm sure I asked similarly obvious/anoying questions.

But here's my humoriys answer:

Want a literary agent?

Send a query letter telling the agent your friends and family love the book, and that God told you to write this story and send it to this particular agent. (so lucky to be chosen by God for this part of your publishing journey.) Be sure to say how anointed you are to tell this story, and that no other author in Christian fiction is writing about what you are writing. And if they are, they can't say it like you.

This is how to get a literary agent, for sure!

Rachel ;)

It's simple, really. Wow a publisher at a writer's conference. Sign a contract on the spot (for a 3 book deal). Then call me.

Sheesh!

It's the same as people asking "How do I get more readers to my blog?" not really wanting the REAL answer. They want the easy way out. They want one little thing they can do that takes 5 minutes and requires very little effort. That's my take on it anyway.

Any advice for new writers?

Pray with all your heart, soul and mind that God will take away your desire to write.

Repeat every chance you're tempted to pick up a pen or open a new document.

If you still HAVE to write, then

1) Learn as much as you can about the biz. (Spend every last cent and every minute you can afford.)
2) Find a support group (like ACFW) because you're going to need therapy,
3) Lean on the Lord for strength and guidance, then
3) Write the story that God gives you.

Angie said: "Pray with all your heart, soul and mind that God will take away your desire to write.

Repeat every chance you're tempted to pick up a pen or open a new document."

I used to have a burning desire to write, but after interviewing many of my favorite authors, I realized that I probably don't have what it takes to make it in an arena that's obviously much more difficult than one might think.

The wonderful writers who *do* get their books published have more than just writing talent--they have persistence, wisdom, a strong work ethic, and (even though they don't tout this in their query letters) the true direction from God over their careers.

I'm settling into the realization that I'm probably meant to be like the sportscaster who, when he didn't have what it took to be an athlete, is doing quite well asking the athletes questions--and enjoying getting to be part of something he loves.

Following Rachelle on Twitter for just a few weeks has been enough to pretty much extinguish any lingering thoughts I had of pursuing publication. So, there you go, Rachelle--you're doing a service! At least one mediocre writer weeded out. :)

Ha! They say that ignorance is bliss, but who knows?

I saw a twitter to you the other day that me made me chuckle. It sounded as if the gentleman was doing you a favor by letting you know he "might" be looking for an agent, and what could you do for him.

I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round.

A prisoner of hope,
Megan

Become either a drug addict or alcoholic. No one writes well unless they are high/drunk.

Become rich. Get famous. Sign contract with Random House. Contact agent. Write amazing book. Oh wait, maybe that's backwards...

DON'T! Resist the urges! Get into a 12-step program as soon as possible!

On the more serious side, giving him the URL for your blog -- because I have to assume a writer hasn't found it yet if he or she is asking that question -- is the best advice you can give a new writer.

Tweet them, of course!

"No. That's above my pay grade."

Name a star after the agent you want and then send her a tweet letting her know.

Start drinking heavily.

Reply #1: If your mom likes your book, you're in. Send it ASAP.

Reply #2: If your mom doesn't like your book, no worries. Opinions vary in this business. I'll probably love it. Send.

Reply #3: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!HOOHOOHOOHOOHOOHOOHOO! TEE-HEE! (*sniff!*) hee.

Reply #4: Prospective author/client: here's what I suggest. Begin at Lake Itasca. Kayak south. When you reach the Gulf of Mexico, turn around. Kayak north.

"Go read a book. Change character names and general settings. Send book in. Get published. Be sure to have Vampires."

My grandmother emailed me a few weeks back about how she had about ten thousand words written for her book and if I had any thoughts about agents and publishers.

I emailed her back that even though I was close to having about sixty thousand on my book, I wasn't even considering looking just yet.

For some reason, I haven't gotten a reply yet....

My advice: "Meet Oprah. It's easier and she's more accessible*. Then get her to pull a few strings for you."

*Agents are accessible. The inaccessibility of agents was dramatized for affect in this Twitter example.

I definitely have advice: plagiarize Dan Brown, change your name to Dan Brown, call Dan Brown's agent. Oh, did you mean ‘good” advice?

Read. A Lot. Write. A Lot. Bang head against desk. A lot. Research. A lot. Edit. Take dogs for a walk (clears head). QUERY RESPONSIBLY.

Hi Rachelle!

Here is my tweet suggestion:

"KNOCK, KNOCK! Who's there? Olive. Olive who? Olive you when you're clueless!
Now do this:
Read, Write, Edit, Repeat.
Google, Query, Print, Delete."

Have a great week-end,

Lynnda

P.S. Thanks, Summer. I live in New Orleans and have NEVER heard a better definition of our southern fits! It had me in a laughing fit!

Why, I'd tell them to check Craig's List.

Under "personals".

xo
Robin

The next time you get such a question, give him the name of an agent you want to play a joke on. Tell him this agent appreciates perseverance and to query them hundreds of times a day. Putting sparkly graffiti in every snail mail query would help him stand out from the rest of the unimaginative authors that simply send boring queries.

Take your pen, place it behind your ear.Open writing pad to new page. Take pen from behind ear and write...this agent accepts bribes of chocolates and flowers ;0

Find your favorite agent. Become best friends with that agent’s mother. Then ask the mother if she would recommend you to the agent.

It shouldn't be that hard. Since you're a new "author"--i.e., you've just gotten a book contract--the hard work has already been done.

So just sit back, wait for your royalty check, and feel sorry for those "writers" who haven't found a publisher yet, much less an agent. Particularly the pretentious ones who already deem themselves "authors."

How about:

"Rewrite"

or, the long version:

"When you think you're ready to query, do back and rewrite again."

"You found one. Next question."

Hey, I'm a designer, how about going to a dinner party where the lady of the house takes me by the hand and rushes me upstairs, where she corrals my dumbfounded self in her master bedroom and proceeds to solicit free advice on what color choices she should make? "Give me some tips, but make it fast," she says, "I've got to get back to the kitchen." Some people just don't get it.

"Spend less time on twitter, more time querying agents."

Agents love persistence: 1. Pitch to them at public urinals. 2. Email followup questions to form rejections. 3. Beg pathetically. Foolproof!

You said it best yourself:

"Uh, no. Not unless you count my 500 blog posts."

First, bang your thumb with a hammer a hundred and eight times. Trust me, at some point, it stops hurting.

That'll give you an idea of what it's like to "query widely".

Still not convinced?

Picture yourself as the only sane person on Earth, and that the world's inability to appreciate your genius is further evidence of everyone else's insanity.

No? Not feeling it yet?

Ah, the best piece of advice for a new author trying to find an agent:

Quit now. I haven't found my agent yet, and you're just competition.

"I'd tell you if I had enough space, sorry. Or, you can read this: [link to your blog]."

(lol)

Any advice for a new author trying to find a literary agent?"

Invest in Tums, a great computer, & get into pushups. It keeps me & you from gnawing the nails to the elbow--gets the MS & desk messy.

:)
~Missye

"Any advice for a new author trying to find an agent?"

"no"

My response might have been:

"Oh, now I see why Twitter has a 'block user' feature"

Three words:

Shameless self promotion

(It works for me, and I'm not even trying to get published.)

I'll let you in on a little secret that I'm not supposed to tell anyone, but I'll tell you. The surefire way to get your book published is

;o)

Great blog post, Rachelle! In reply, Roxanne said: This business is not for the faint of heart!

Oh, Roxanne, you sure got that right! We write and write, agonize and revise, edit and tear down and rebuild and after that is all done we catch some ridiculous plot error that a 5 year old could catch that causes us to tear down and rebuild yet again. Then we query and query some more, and go to conferences, and meet with peers, and live and breathe this "sport" of ours.

Then some damn fool says "Yeah, one of these days I'm' going to write a REALLY GOOD book -- I've got some REALLY GOOD ideas. (Not at all like my suckie ideas, I'm sure!)

But hey, not being one to sulk, I'll usually pat the damn fool on the back and say "Hey, when you do, best of luck!"

After 7 manuscripts and on my third publication, I can honestly confirm -- it is not for the faint of heart!!

Best to all who love this "sport" as much as I do!
Donna Carrick
www.donnacarrick.com

Write a great book & a great query. Research great agents. Send. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I think Don's wins the prize, but I'd also suggest:

Finish writing your book. Edit your book. Then write another book, which will be better than your first one.

(108 characters)

This has by far been my favorite roll of comments to read through! My husband just asked what I was laughing about. After this week, I really needed the laughs! I'd love to see a top ten list. :)

Rachelle, you could just really confuse them and tweet back:

I'm still looking for somebody to represent me. So how should I know?

Response: "Try looking at the end of the rainbow."

:)

Follow katdish on twitter and get her teach "shameless self promoting". ;)

"Yes. Never use your real name when asking such a question."

Love your blog!

"Any advice for a new author trying to find a literary agent?"

1)Google: "querying literary agents"

2) Check out: AbsoluteWrite.com, or QueryTracker.net, the forums.

3)Remember the three P's: Perseverance, Perspiration, and Palominos.

(Riding a horse always helps in one way or another. Can't be thinking of writing, queries, requests, rejections while on a 1000 lb animal with a mind of its own.)

4)"Things will never be the same again".

Considering the fact that we consist of millions of writers vying for one of those 172,000 "musical chairs" (roughly how many books published in a year), not to mention the nail-cuticle-lip biting angsty waits on fulls and partials,

6)Are you crazy? Get out while you can! Run! Don't look back!"

I envy this guy his innocence. I was that innocent just two years ago. Just as I learned,

7) Research, research, research,

So will he.

Welcome, new initiate. : )

All joking aside:

8)Before you query an agent, read their website and/or blog.

1. Have someone besides your mother tell you it's great. 2. Find someone who can tell you why it stinks. 3. Sprinkle with fairy dust (or prayer). 4. Submit.

Here's how I got an agent (a wonderful one, I have to add):

-Wrote a book
-Rewrote the book
-Rewrote again
-Enlisted several readers
-Rewrote again
-Enlisted more readers
-Rewrote yet again
-Revised until I was literally wearing Band-Aids on my fingers because they were so sore from typing
-Wrote an apparently kick-ass query letter and included my short first chapter
-Sent it to agents who repped books I loved (Google is your friend), who I knew through cyberspace, or who I'd happened to meet

The rewriting phase took more brain cells and energy than I knew I possessed. Getting agent offers took less than three weeks from initial queries. (I was prepared to settle in for a long wait; it didn't happen.)

And yeah, book deal followed, and my head's still spinning.

(I will say that many many people query far too early, long before their book is ready, and many need to take a hatchet to their query letter.)

Imagine you've been a drug addict most of your life. Write as if you were. Tell Oprah about your miraculous salvation from the drug scene and "Oh, whaddya know, I have written a book." Agents will spring from the walls (but they might regret it later).

Write three books without ever reading a book on craft or attending a conference. After 113 rejections, sign the first Print On Demand contract for eternity that comes along. And be sure the book has a cliffhanger ending, so when the POD company overprices it and doesn't place it in bookstores, it will only sell 108 copies, so when the publisher won't publish the sequel, then you've got 108 readers hanging over the cliff.

Now, I'll be serious. Enter contests for feedback, join American Christian Fiction Writers and attend their conferences, even if you have to sell your firstborn to do it. Okay, halfway serious.

"Any advice for a new author trying to find a literary agent?"

Hide between pages one and two of yesterday's bestseller.

In Sunday School I mentioned I was going to attend a writer's conference. After class, four people came to me and asked advice because they had always wanted to write.
I invited them to attend the conference with me - it was free, 20 miles away and run by two published authors. Not one of them showed up.
I attend conferences, two critique groups and spend time writing [besides working a full time job]- I am learning and may never get published.
My advice - invest your time and money and good luck.

You can always tell 'em "elem-geeteefy." (Waiting for y'all to look perplexed). Here you go: http://lmgtfy.com/

;)

I hear you can sometimes find a good agent on eBay...whoops! Scratch that, the auction ended last night! - Lance

"Your Google-fu needs work, Grasshopper. Read agent blogs. Lurk and learn."

Just figuring to get one in there that was a little different. ;)

On another note, you truly ARE an awesome person to be so considerate of the original trigger to the post. :)

Two steps: 1) Become famous for something; and 2) screen your calls.

Writte gud.

Don't Quit

This reminds me of the many people who ask me what book to read to research the Regency (the setting of my fiction). It's a perfectly natural question, but there is no one easy answer. We were just discussing this on the HisWriters email loop, and the thing is, you can't find everything you need to write in this genre in one place.

I explained that you go about researching and picking up bits and pieces in different places. When you put it all together, you've got a good working knowledge of the Regency--the days when Jane Austen was publishing and Dickens was just a kid. This is likely true for most any historical genre--and hey, it might even apply to finding an agent--unless you read this blog, of course.

(Rachelle--incidentally, I just recommended your blog in a little ebook I put together for the FaithWriters Conference where I gave a workshop on Book Marketing. Anyone reading can access the ebook directly if they like:
http://www.LinoreBurkard.com/TheLittleBookofMarketingTips.pdf )

Enjoy.

My response -

Would love to reply but I'm on my way to my support group.

Umm. Perhaps this case is really ridiculous & the guy's just an amateur but with Twitter you never know how to ask professionals nicely. Since I want to get into publishing & work either for a publishing house or a literary agency I follow publishing people but since they keep giving advice for authors only once in a while I send them a DM & ask them for tips on how to get into publishing. It seems I was lucky I got a really nice & helpful advice from Rachelle in 140 characters. Previously I also sent a DM to the person behind Random House. I gave him or her (sorry that I don't know) my e-mail address where s/he could send his or her reply. She or he didn't even bother to say, sorry I don't want to help you. So what's better if I give you my mail address straight away or just imply you'll give me tips in 140 characters? I turn to you in the belief that you are all nice people but sometimes reading your rants on Twitter or elsewhere you (literary agents) seem to be so inapproachable.
Vivienne

Roll your handwritten novel, rubberband it, and toss it on their front step early Saturday morning.

There can never be too many m&ms. There's even a math equation about it: writing quality varies directly to m&m quantity. And if they're a good agent, they like m&ms too.
Or if they don't, there's more for ME.

Vivienne,

Agents are "inapproachable" for very good reason. As you can imagine, we get hundreds of inquiries a week (including queries). There's no possible way to answer them all and still have time to serve our clients and run a viable business.

Therefore, those of us who really want to help others write blogs, and post tips on twitter. Unfortunately, we simply can't answer every question, or sit at our desks dispensing advice all day to hopeful writers. Everything you need to know about publishing is on the internet somewhere; much of it is also in books. It's your task to find it.

When you eventually have an agent, trust me, you'll be very thankful that your agent doesn't spend her day answering random publishing questions from the masses. You'll want to be secure in the knowledge that your agent is doing her job to serve YOU. So even when you get frustrated, remember that. Agents and editors must focus on doing the job they're paid to do. Every blog post or tweet from an agent is a free gift, and we hope it is appreciated.

Well, besides stalking an agent, dating one and then leaving your manuscript out on the table by accident, pitching them at writers conferences, and praying, trusting law of attraction and so forth, the obvious has already been stated. But I would recommend reading blogs by writers who have had success in getting an agent for their ideas. For example, Laurie Kienlen who blogs on Quips and Tips for Successful Writers, put together a proposal for a non-fiction book idea, queried 17 agents and had two responses - one she signed a contract with. This inspires me as a writer. She has examples of her query letters on her site.

Write the best book ever and the agents will find you.

Hmmm . . .

How about,

"Eat, Pray, Love"

Been done? Dang it?

How about,

"Eats Shoots and Leaves" or in the alternative "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves"

Whhhaaaaat? That's gone too?

How about "Read, Write, Query" followed by "Lather, Rinse, Repeat"

Great post! Terri

Reed N. Lurk says:

Personally give agents pencils printed with glittering space monkeys and your name, phone number, website and microdot blurb.

STEP 1: Write a GREAT novel.

STEP 2: Spend at least one year as a zookeeper, preferably in charge of some sort of enormous animal with horns. I recommend a rhino.

STEP 3: On a daily basis, go into the animal's cage and lie down on the floor. Allow the animal to run back and forth, back and forth over your prostrate form.

STEP 4: Query agents.

See? Piece a' cake.

Dear Rachelle,
Thanks for your reply to my comment. I understand what you're trying to say. You are right, there are million blogs about the publishing business just like about how to publish your book. And candidates from either side should really look there for information. It's just you sometimes like to ask people whose face you know in the first round. And I'm not talking about the less serious ones.
Bests,
Vivienne

Wait until the next full moon, and then sacrifice a Dell laptop by hurling it off a cliff while howling at the top of your lungs, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore." Than go buy a Mac and write something astounding. And yes, proper grammar counts.

Alternate path: Become a left handed Iranian lesbian hermaphrodite with bipolar disorder. This should immediately get you an agent, a book auction, guaranteed inclusion in the Oprah book club, and an option for a screenplay. (No offense to left-handed people, Iranians, lesbians, hermphrodites, or those with bipolar disorder. With this disclaimer, my lawyer says my butt is covered.)

This reminded me of a post on the message board of a notorious vanity-press-that-pretends-not-to-be-a-vanity-press.

The question was priceless:

"Does anyone know where I can pick up an agent?"

I will let that one stand alone . . .

As an unpublished author, I'm going from my gut here:

1. Invest in a bouncy house and lots of fine chocolate.

2. Write a great book and vent with the bouncy house and chocolate.

3. If there's any chocolate left by the time you're done with your masterpiece, send some to a literary agent (or is that considered bribing?).

Let me ask this question - do you have any advice on BECOMING a literary agent? It sounds like something I would love to do...

Rachelle,

I laughed when I saw this post; the same thing happens on my ExploringAdoptionBlog.com every week. I have over 800 articles on it, most of which are information about various aspects of adoption. Yet I constantly receive e-mails that read, "Tell me about the pros and cons of adopting."

I received so many requests during "research paper season" (the end of fall and spring semesters for high school and college students) that I finally got fed up and wrote a post titled, "No, I Will NOT Write Your Research Paper About Adoption" (http://tinyurl.com/ob9gv8).

In the post, I include links to some of my most popular "pro/con" articles, hints on how to use my site's internal Search feature, and even a sample bibliography entry (in case they decide to quote me).

Now, whenever I get a request from someone to do their homework for them, I just send them the link to that post. Works like a charm!

Laura Christianson
Author of "The Adoption Decision" and "The Adoption Network"

I feel the pain of the author asking...because I've been asking that question for a while...and I finally got an agent last week!! You just need to KEEP ON QUERYING. There are so many agents and you need to search every single website possible to find all of them!

LOL How about....

Stop tweeting and go "tighten" your book.

;-)

I've had some nasty spells of unsuccessful job hunting, and I sympathize. I tried to separate my sense of self-worth from the circumstance that no prospective employers seemed to value me at all, but it was difficult. Hang in there. A lot of people feel the same way.

leave it to you to be that way...i know exactly how you felt. i felt it to. so many were so excited for so long. all i could say was "we'll see."

in 2004 i was standing in copley square, in the rain, waiting for kerry to come out and speak. and then things took a gnarly turn, and it started to look like bush was gonna win.

and kerry never came out.

that book is amazing, but heartbreaking at points. you'll like it.

Sarah Palin gives me nightmares when I'm wide awake! I hope you rest in peace tonight.

This is possibly the best review I've ever read. Now I feel like I have to read the series just so I can see for myself how bad this book is. Although I may be crazy.

Oh yeah, the one you quote? Nina? She's the one who's never read the books.