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Don't you think one reason for that book's success is that the average reader is not really that discriminating about things like style or even grammar? When a writer "hones his craft," it's at least partly because he has to get his work past an editor, and editors have more discerning taste than the average reader. That's one reason they're editors.

And for this, I am happier than I can express while typing on a smart phone. I don't care how campy, or whatever, a story is. If the writing is as bad as it is in that book, I can't get past it. I want to take a red pen and mark the crap out of it, and I'm not even an editor.

Glad to know there is still sanity in the publishing/ agent world. Thank you.

Thank you.

Plain and simple.

Because as both a reader and a writer, I'm still lost on the 50 Shades excitement :-)

I actually like that, in theory at least. It's punk rock publishing: No skill, no talent, no ability, just three chords and a message that resonates with your audience. And that's all you need, really: the ability to speak to your audience. Lack of musicianship is not only not a problem, but can be parlayed into a selling point: it's proof of your authenticity.

The thing to keep in mind is that this does not diminish the value of good craftsmanship. During the era of punk, we still had traditional rock and pop bands that succeeded in selling records. We also had people who could make themselves heard with less. One does not negate the value of the other. Is it for everyone? No. But it's a way to get noticed.
-LupLun
Shooting for the Moon

I won't lie, it's an odd message for those of us wanting to go into the industry. It's like, I obsess over style, grammar, pacing, prose, structure, but should I? I may be stylistically proud of a book in the end, but will it sell? Have I been wasting my time obsessing over something that might become 'old fashioned'? Should I put the grammar books down and crack open some Twilight or pull a Cassandra Claire and run a fanfiction piece through search and replace and call it a day? This is a very odd time for writing, a very odd time indeed. Agents, editors, books and history all tell us one thing, but the bestseller list goes out of its way to tell us the exact opposite. It's not discouraging, it's more confusing.

There is one thing that can explain it:

Twinkies

For some people junk is what they want all the time. For others, junk is an occasional guilty indulgence. For still others, they only try the junk once. Add all those people together and that is a lot of Twinkies.

Thing is - the market won't withstand 100s of types of Twinkies. And it is difficult to pin down exactly WHAT makes a Twinkie appealing anyway - except its vague resemblance to cake which you already love.

Editors who are looking for the 'next' 50 Shades are looking for the 'next' Twinkie.

Good luck.

It's not that hard to explain if you know why the book took off in the first place. Fans of the fanfiction the writer wrote for Twilight pushed the book to their friends. If not for the established fanbase and the idea that the main characters were actually Bella and Edward (shh... don't tell, it's a dirty little secret, wink, wink) it never would have been a success at all.

People who first bought 50 Shades, weren't buying 50 Shades at all. They were buying Twilight porn. They passed the book around to others, creating hype, and then others bought the book because of the hype.

Kristin,

I am glad someone else is in agreement with this one. I posted on this one and was suddenly bombarded by people thinking this was a piece of great writing. Personally it scares me, if they think this was good writing, what do you think their writing will be. I, like you would not have been an agent to have seen what the "genius" was in that book.

I haven't read it, but the success of well-written novels makes me want to be a better writer.

And as much as this might make me sound bitter, the success of "not well written" novels makes me bang my head into my keyboard.

BUT

I'm wondering if this is part of the deal. People like it for the reason that it's bad. That they feel they could do better, if they had the time and could be bothered? It's not so well written that people feel threatened?

I don't know.

What the heck, I'll bang my head on the keyboard and see if I feel better.

It's not consistently good writing (though it isn't consistently bad either) -- but it is good storytelling.

It's accessible literature that doesn't speak down to the reader. Everyone I've spoken to who has read the stories either as fanfic or as "original" fiction agree that it's not mentally engaging but it grabs them emotionally, the characters grab you by the left nipple clamp and drag you along for the ride.

Just like with the people in our lives, if you love something enough you can see beyond the scars, scabs and other imperfections.

The twinkie post is spot on, as was the post about the Twilight fan base. The trilogy is an anomoly, and I don't think it's because the average reader can't tell good writing from bad. As much as I cringe while reading (and I am reading it), there are other parts I enjoy. The author has managed to make me care about these characters.

I have no interest in reading this "hot" book, so I totally can relate to how you feel. I prefer women's fiction with intelligence. If I want a 50 Shades... vibe I'll read Penthouse Letters. ;-)

50 Shades of Grey is not my cup of tea. I can't get past the horrific prose to enjoy the story.

But worse than the author's repetitive descriptions, cardboard characters, and use of the term "inner goddess", are the people who say, "If this can become a bestseller, I should write a book". Or worse, "If this is a bestseller, why can't you even get an agent?" (I've heard that second one twice. Makes me want to beat my head against a wall).

I don't know why this book has been successful. I'm going to agree with the previous poster who talked about the Twilight fanbase and hype.

With the rise of the Kindle, there was always going to be a break out "mommy porn" bestseller. In my opinion, this was the wrong book being hyped up at the right time.

That's interesting. I haven't really paid much attention to the reviews, because I haven't paid the book. But I just assumed that it was well-written because it was a best-seller. On the other hand, I've read plenty of popular books that I didn't like very much.

Have chosen not to read SHADES OF GREY, but I'm curious. Was the book neither professionally edited nor copyedited or was the poor writing deliberate?

Dittoing "twinkies" and "Twilight porn" and "breakout mommy porn bestseller" comments above. Those are all spot-on.

FWIW, as a real book, it's pretty bad. As a sexy fanfic, it's pretty good. And a lot of people read sexy fanfics that are a whole lot (a WHOLE LOT) worse and enjoy them.

I'm still "wtf"ing that a fanfic is a NYT best-seller, but then again, it's not like it's the first time a really terrible book has hit it big. Da Vinci Code, anyone? I have a book called Killer Crabs that was apparently a best-seller in the 70s. I've never read it all the way through, but when I feel down on myself I crack open a few pages and it makes me smile.

I'm kind of hoping the slush pile floods with 50 Shades clones. Then it'll be that much easier to discard them and see the really good queries ;)

The thing is, as a fanfic reader, knowing this story was originally fanfic, I find it a little hilarious. Because there are at least hundreds, probably thousands or more, stories of similar content, quality, and length across various fandoms--all available for free, written and read for the pure enjoyment of it. There's absolutely no need to pay money for this kind of story.

Honestly, I bet a lot of the reason it's popular is because it started as fanfic. Posted first as fanfic for Twilight, rode Twilight's coattails to gain an audience, then published with an already established fanbase who's internet-savvy and likely posted early rave reviews. I imagine that had a lot to do with it, because it certainly doesn't seem like it would have been successful if it had come out of the gate as an original novel.

People may notice and get excited about shooting stars, but those burn out and are completely forgotten. People may not pay much attention to the stars, but they've been burning for billions of years.

I'd rather be the star...

I work in a library, and I have no interest in reading 50 Shades (yet), but I will occasionally flip to a random page if a copy passes through my hands as I put it up on the hold shelf. It may actually be the first book I've ever encountered that falls into the "so bad it's good" category. It's the Birdemic of books.

The page I remember that made me snort ran something along the lines of, "I knew Dr. Greene was curious about my relationship with Mr. Grey, but I doubted she could possibly imagine his RED ROOM OF PAIN, or what went on between us there." (Emphasis mine.)

I bet she could if you tried her. She is a doctor, after all.

I haven't read it but it makes me cringe to hear libraries are pulling it off shelves. If I choose to read it, the library is where I'd go because I wouldn't want to drop a dime. And libraries are not supposed to censure, even in Florida and Georgia.

I read 50 Shades when it was a fan fic at the urging of my sister, who is, and I'm loathe to admit this, addicted to the Twilight saga and reads a huge amount of fan fiction. I'm a writer and after I read the first few pages of Ms. James story, I commented that the writing was horrific. My sister begged me to keep reading, saying that the writing got better. Um, no, it really didn't, but here's why I think it's such a success-the author took the Edward and Bella characters to a whole new level. What Stephenie Meyer wouldn't do with the characters, E.L. James did, and for those women who became obsessed with Edward, this was just the perfect thing for them. Yes, the writing is awful, and yes, as a writer who is trying to be published and doing everything 'right' to make that happen, the fact that this author got a seven figure deal for these books is just plain disheartening.

I agree wholeheartedly. If you are a real writer, you are SUPPOSED to care about things like grammar and punctuation. Unless you are doing it on purpose like e.e. cummings, there is no excuse for shoddy grammar. I agree that telling a good story is more important than grammar overall, but I think being lazy about grammar just makes you a hack. I'm curious to read the book but I don't want to support it by buying it. People may be able to overlook the problems as they get into the story, but why should they have to? Get an editor and show some respect for the craft!

Like a lot of writers, I can't help but be impressed when a self-published book takes off because it just shows that nobody really knows what will sell. Right now I'm being told that my gay-themed book won't sell because the audience is too small (as if only gay people would read it...I'm not gay and I wrote it!) I will probably self-publish it eventually because I am really passionate about the story. If it sells 10 copies, that's better than nothing. But I'm going to learn how to self-publish, hire an editor, and do it RIGHT because I care about my craft.

What exactly has changed since time immemorial? Isn't The Davinci Code the best selling novel of all-time? there have always been, and always will be, literary geniuses and mass-market bestsellers. there is a story well-written and a story well-told. Sometimes they converge, sometimes they don't.

It's all a matter of taste and unfortunately, the public's taste is growing crasser every day.

As far as the cultural acceptance of poor literature, I personally blame the American education system.

But it comes right back to what people want and it's really not so surprising that what they want is publically displayed sex.

I guess that makes the second culprit in the case Hollywood.

And who has been in charge of the American educational system and of Hollywood for DECADES?

Liberals.

Don't overthink it. As others have said--the initial success was from the Twilight fans and now it's expanded via word of mouth into the mommy porn group (which has some crossover with Twilight).

But I think Kristin's real concern is that she's now going to see 50 shades of imitators (and I fully expect publishers to publish imitators). I feel sorry for the slush pile readers!

I wonder, in 50 years will our grandchildren be singing its praises? The Great Gatsby is a classic now, but it's riddled with pages and pages of dialog that honestly is very difficult to follow. Yet, my rather intelligent professor in college explained that the vague-ness and all of the things left out of the story were part of what made it great and is an extension of the period.

IMO, 50 shades is a product of our time - good or bad.

Ummm. And maybe because it's about sex?

The story, like several other best sellers, isn’t written well but if you get past the writing sometimes the story can suck you in. Although with this one the first two books were easier to get through then the third. The third jumped a lot in the start, I think it broke several more literary rules then the first two.

All the same a story is all most people need. It does make a writer cringe to know that we pour our hearts out to make our stories look their best and then something else gets published that is ...subpar. Maybe it’s jealousy who knows. All I know is that I want my work to looks it’s best because that is what people will know me by. So yes she got published but she will forever be tainted as the writer with a good story that was poorly written. That does taint any further writing she might do.

That being said i know people are crazed that it was fan fiction. Well maybe it was but it is original enough that if you didn't know it was fan lit you probably wouldn't have made an Edward Bella connection.

Maybe the devil still makes agreements for 7 years?

I'm not sure this a one-in-a-million instance. Did we all read "Twilight?" I don't know if any one used the moniker "well-written" for that either.

As an aspiring writer it is frustrating that these blockbuster titles are so sub-par from a craft standpoint. Of course, "The Hunger Games" has been an exception to that trend.

I agree with MegS-Twilight was very popular, but well-written it was not. I think some authors are good story tellers, not necessarily good writers and vice versa. If it makes things harder for agents, it certainly has to make things harder for writers who actually come up with original stories. I'm less troubled by the fact that the writing is so poor (which I think universally acknowledged) than the fact that this was FAN FICTION originally.

Obviously the story resonated with many, many folks, or they wouldn't haven't bought it, told their friends about it, blogged about it, etc, etc.

Complain all you want about the grammar and other such issues with the books. E L James is now very rich because of her books. Doesn't matter how it started. Fanfic, or whatever. She's enjoying her day in the spotlight. As writers, we should all be congratulating our fellow writers on their success -- not browbeating them because you thought their work was sub-par.

Her work isn't going to affect your work. Her books are not going to affect the future of printed works. Not even the saleability of your work. Don't worry about it.

Let's not all forget one specific point: books are not a zero-sum game. Just because consumers are buying up her books doesn't mean that they won't buy yours!

Don't trash her fans. You might loose a fan because of it.

I saw this at Barnes and Noble and skimmed through a few pages and immediately put it down. Erotica isn't remotely my taste to begin with, and the writing sealed the deal. Then I was at Costco with my mom, turned the corner around the book table and BOOM: 50 Shades of Grey. At Costco?! That's when you know something's blowing up. I'll echo what some others have said: Twilight. Twinkies. Good storytelling does not = good writing. If you look at all of the juggernaut books of the last 15 years you'll find a common theme: good storytelling. Harry Potter, Twilight, Da Vinci Code, Hunger Games, The Help - all written with varying degrees of skill but also with a compelling story and characters people connect to. I think what the success of this book proves is that the public is willing to ignore bad writing if the story is something they're invested in. I know if I were published, though, I'd want to be known for my writing skill AND my storytelling. It's the authors who land in that sweetspot whose books live on the longest.

I think these things just happen. As an aspiring author, this in no way gives me any ideas about not going about things the right way! People should chalk this up to being a fluke. I would never want to have a bestseller that people refer to as "not well written". (Well, I might appreciate the money...but I digress.) If I get published I want to be darn proud of what I put into the world. I think the person that would want to try their hand at this kind of luck would be the same people to write poorly anyway. Maybe not, just my thoughts! :) It makes me think of this quote.

"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." Thomas Jefferson

There is nothing at all surprising about the success of this. You may love creme brulee or Godiva chocolates, but every once in awhile (and MUCH of the time for the more crass ppl out there), you just want--you guessed it: a twinkie. --though I never much liked twinkies myself. A Hershey bar will do just fine.

I haven't read this novel. But have been seeing a lot of tweets and blog posts about it.

This post (okay, mostly the comments) makes me feel sad and tired as both a reader and a writer. The writing in 50 Shades won't win any prizes, sure, but it was not unreadable despite all the verbal shuddering going on in this thread. In fact, I'd say it was comparable to many, many, many other genre books out there. Yes, the prose is merely serviceable (and that is more than okay for millions of readers, you must realize), but it isn't some garbled, unreadable mess like people are making it out to be. As to the book's success...most people read the book for the story, and the story is pretty gripping. Ms. James spins a good yarn. There was a spark there.

For the record, I'm not some 50 Shades fangirl. I'm not even 100% sure the author's last name is James, haha! Erotic lit is not really my cup of tea. I read the first book, but not the subsequent ones, etc. And when I picked it up, I had no idea it originated as Twilight fanfic. I just thought--hey, this looks like a fun and fluffy and slightly kinky read, I've seen a lot of people raving about it, and I feel like taking a break from heavy literature right now. And you know what, I enjoyed it. It was fluff, some of it was cheesy, some of it was repetitive. Okay. But when everyone starts wailing that THIS IS THE END OF GOOD LITERATURE FOREVA OMG WE ARE DOOMED, or worse, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE UNWASHED MASSES WHO LIKE THIS DRIVEL??, that's when I start to roll my eyes. Are we so out of touch with the world? People enjoy interesting stories. People like something that grabs them, even if it isn't a breathtaking masterpiece of literary genius. Let's not be hipster snobs here and pretend we can't comprehend this. I get a little confused/frustrated sometimes when people DON'T like a breathtaking masterpiece of literary genius, but not when people like the lighter fare. And yes, you can like both.

I'm sure Ms. James aspires to improve her craft. She's admitted the writing isn't brilliant. She knows she has room for improvement. And hey, not everybody gets to be (or wants to be) Jonathan Franzen or Jeffrey Eugenides. I hope she continues to grow as a writer without losing the spark and passion that brought her so many fans in the first place. But I wish writers didn't feel the need to hate on each other so much, especially when someone they deem unworthy achieves success. I've observed the same phenomenon with Stephenie Meyer (from fellow writers, mind you), and it just baffles me. I understand that she isn't going to win the next Pulitzer for fiction, but she's still a author telling stories people love, and I think that deserves at least some respect from her community of fellow writers. But no, she's treated with a lot of scorn and derision. It just makes me sad.

FWIW, I'm not against discernment when it comes to writing. In fact, I think that's extremely important, and I'm studying the work of authors like Flannery O'Connor and Joyce Carol Oates (and not the work of Ms. Meyer or Ms. James) when I want to learn something about excellent writing, sure. But I am against all the fellow author-bashing. It isn't very classy.

What can I say? I've never heard of this book. Which puts it in company with my book, Tainted Souls, which most people have never heard of. So I'm good company, I guess?

Twilight wasn't so well written, either, and that didn't seem to hurt sales.

Because for some reason women like to read about a poor girl getting beat all in the means of sex?

No thank you. I'd rather read Twilight again then suffer through the series.

I haven't read Fifty Shades of Grey and I won't either. The story doesn't interest me in the least. So I went to Amazon and read the first two pages.

James's prose has the same quality that Stephanie Meyers, Dan Brown, Nora Roberts, Clive Cussler, WEB Griffin, Janet Evanovich, James Patterson, Stephen King, John Grisham, Julie Garwood, Jayne Anne Krentz, Susan Elizabeth Philips, Robert Ludlum, Ken Follet, Anne MCCaffrey, et al all have. It is compelling to read. It is so compelling that the reader loses themselves in the story and doesn't notice mistakes in spelling, punctuation, and grammar. That is talent. That can't be taught. And quite frankly, I would rather write like one of these authors, than some literary genius no one but the literati have ever heard of or will ever hear of.

Unfortunately if you're the type of person who notices spelling, punctuation, and grammar mistakes when you read, then you will not be able to recognize compelling prose even when it sits up and slaps you in the face.

And I feel sorry for you because when I read a book and get lost in story, it's like riding on Space Mountain. If I'm noticing the spelling and the grammar and the punctuation, then I feel like I've been dragged into The Hall of Presidents. If I get to choose between the two, then it's Space Mountain every time.

What tees me off about this discussion is that there is a lot of mudslinging about the book, but no in depth analysis of why it is bad.

I've read an analysis of Da Vinci Code written by an Ivy League literature professor. His analysis was so stupid, it wasn't funny. What's really scary is that he has a PhD in literature and he is teaching creative writing.

anonymous 2:10 a.m.

Here is a good in-depth analysis of the book:
http://therumpus.net/2012/05/the-trouble-with-prince-charming-or-he-who-trespassed-against-us/

I've read books that were perfectly lousy and still kept me reading. 50 SHADES wasn't one of them. Fortunately, the Amazon "look inside this book" feature saved me. What put me off so much I couldn't get into the story of a modern young woman in college with NO COMPUTER and no e-mail address who was also a virgin? This deathless simile about the hero's voice, which is “warm and husky like dark melted chocolate fudge caramel…or something.”

At that point I decided that it wasn’t worth reading even for free (from the library). Of course, your mileage may vary....

LOL. I love the comment that compares it to twinkies. Too true. Fifty Shades is a bandwagon everyone can't wait to jump on. Enjoy the ride. It's short.

I seem to be in the minority here, but I'm going to say this anyhow, and I won't even post it anonymously.

As a reader and a writer, it makes me sad that there is a fanfic on the bestseller's list. As a reader, because I want to read fresh stories, not pay for something I already own. As a writer because I don't want someone borrowing my characters, and it's not something I ever would do. I DO think there is a place for fanfic. I think it's supposed to be just for fun not a cash cow. I think there is more artistic integrity in creating your own world, and your own characters.

Kristin,

Thanks for the link. I am the anonymous at 2:10 AM (sorry I was too lazy to log into blogger)

That analysis is of the story, not the prose. And I absolutely agree with that analysis. It is not a story that I want to read, and it is troubling that it is popular. But I can also see that her prose is compelling to read.

Whether one likes a story or not, doesn't indicate the quality of the prose. I don't like Stephen King's stories, that doesn't make him a bad writer or his stories poorly written.

So when we say that something is poorly written, what are we talking about? Is it the prose, the plot, the characterization, or what? In terms of plot and characterization and all the other elements of fiction, yes it is poorly written. In terms of the prose styling, the actual stringing together of words to tell the story, it is compelling to read.

And yes, I do feel empathy for you, your inbox will soon be filled with Fifty Shades of Grey clones. That's human nature. We see someone becoming hugely successful for something and then everyone rushes in trying to mimic that person's success instead of finding it on their own.

We don't need no, education, we don't need no, grammar skills..

..Hey, editors! Leave those kids alone!

It's like a DADAist approach to writing: Why should you have to be intelligent to write a story? Why should you have to study the english language to write a story? After all, Daniel, you said so yourself: The ability to write so well you don’t *need grammar* comes from talent and can’t be taught. Much like how affluent artists are simply born with a pencil in their hand and can render a beautifully drawn human body without even having to look at one. There's no learning involved in writing, it's just a talent.

I don't fear agent Nelson's inbox being flooded with 50 Shade Clones as much as I fear the fact that due to a rise in people making a conscious choice to be intellectually lazy, there will be hundreds of people like Daniel thinking you don't need to study or work hard to become a writer, all you need is ~imagination~. Grammar, structure, plot and progression are just the product of people who, what was it? Ah yes, "the literati have ever heard of or will ever hear of." Stephen King, Nora Roberts and James Patterson were just born knowing how to write.

Now, since you've made it quite clear reading isn't exactly your thing, I imagine you didn't actually read the article Nelson posted, what with all those multi-syllabic words in there and all. To address your point of James' prose. This:

“My subconscious is frantically fanning herself, and my inner goddess is swaying and writing to some primal carnal rhythm. She’s so ready.”

“white Pinot Grigio.”

"Ana says or thinks, “Jeez,” more times than I can count. There are so many repetitive tics, this trilogy would be ideal for a drinking game where the aim is to destroy someone’s liver. Drink every time Ana thinks, “Jeez.” Drink every time Ana bites her lower lip, which, by the way, makes Christian want to ravish her. Drink every time the palm of Christian’s hand twitches because he wants to spank Ana. Drink every time Ana thinks of Christian as enigmatic or mercurial. Drink every time Ana reflects on his extraordinary good looks. Drink every time Ana gets possessive of Christian because every single human woman in the world eyes him lustily and becomes instantly tongue-tied. Drink every time the narrative continuity goes wildly off track. The game goes on and on."

As well as this,

“I want you to become well acquainted, on first name terms if you will, with my favorite and most cherished part of my body. I’m very attached to this.”

“My inner goddess is doing the merengue with some salsa moves.” “My inner goddess sits in the lotus position looking serene except for the sly, self-congratulatory smile on her face.” “My inner goddess jumps up and down with cheer-leading pom-poms shouting yes at me.” “My inner goddess looks like someone snatched her ice cream.”

Is at the level of a twelve year old writing fanfiction porn. That is not good enough. You may base writing success on sales numbers, but Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian also can outsell many things far better than them, that doesn't make them good. The books you dismiss as elitist and forgotten because they haven't had a Lifetime TV movie made about them are still read to this day because things that are good are enduring, and to be good, things have to have quality. If you cannot understand why The Great Gatsby is better than The Da Vinci Code, or what quality in writing is, for the love of god, see if your community college offers a basic class in English Comprehension.

*Excuse me, Daniel - Diana

Thank you for saying this. 50 Shades is insulting. There's better written and less offensive erotica out there that ISN'T find-and-replace-name fanfic. And bottom-of-the-barrel fanfic, at that. (I say this as someone who wrote Harry Potter fic for years.)

I mean, awkward prose aside, there are TYPOS and MISSPELLINGS (not just British to American English misspellings). Nothing should go for seven figures and make this much buzz with DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS OF SPELLING ERRORS at the very, very least.

If none of this silly grammar stuff matters, why should we have to have classes in our own language during school? Because it DOES MATTER.

I feel like the publishing industry owes millions of authors, already published, seven more figures. Because if 50 Shades is worth that much...

@anonymous 3:55 PM

Wow, can you be any more arrogant, condescending, rude, and insulting?

It is posts like yours that stifle constructive discussion of books such as these.

Clearly the one in need of a class in reading comprehension at the local community college is yourself as you didn't understand a word that she said (You didn't even get her name or gender right when you went on your tirade.)

And while you are there see if they teach a class in manners as your are sorely lacking.

Kristin, thanks for posting the link. That really was a pretty comprehensive analysis, and I agree with the writer--it's the wrong message, wrong kind of fairy tale.

Glad you shared it.

I was bottle-fed on the three-act structure, so my heart breaks every time I see another book, film or television show clearly missing those Campbellion (and many other) beats.

Still, I make it a point to never berate other writers. This industry is hard. If another writer figured out how to tune into our cultural zeitgeist, and make a mint in the process, God bless.

We live in an age where books are the underdog. In my mind, every time a book succeeds, we all (writers, agents and publishers) win. It’s good for all of us. No need to worry. :)

And your blog is fabulous.

If it is not well written, I can completely understand why you wouldn't be the agent to go for it. At the very least, any agent who does should at least have had it edited so that it would be well written by the time it hit shelves. Thanks for sharing.

I never knew that writers and wanna be writers were so bitter and elitist . If all of you are so talented, why are you writing comments instead of bestsellers?

I bought it to see what all the hype was about. I had to stop reading somewhere in chapter two because the plot was so implausible, the writing was on an eighth-grade level (that's being generous), and there are so many other books actually worth my time.

Anonymous, I'm not bitter and elitist (unless by your definition, it means I have standards). As applied to this book, better terms would be confused, perhaps mystified. I just don't get *why* this book is a bestseller unless it's some sort of mass hysteria leftover from Twilight. I bear the author no ill will. Good luck to her. I wish all of us could be hit by the same lightning.

Here's my take. Frankly, I'm not really surprised this book has done well, because the subject matter sells. I neither read nor write this kind of fiction, so I can't rely upon the subject matter *alone* selling my work to anyone (naturally, I hope the subjects I write about will be of interest to people). I simply want to write stories I care about, and write them as well as I can. I want to be proud of my work, and be able to hold my head up and say "this is a good example of my writing skills." Personal integrity is very important to me.

From the interviews I've read/heard (and correct me if I'm mistaken), Ms. James doesn't consider herself a good writer, and doesn't think her book is really all that good. If I had that attitude about something I'd written, I would never have allowed it to be published.

Just my 2c.

This elitist attitude is WHY publishing is in such trouble. THIS book got people to read. THIS book made money. And THIS book made the so-called gatekeepers stop and wonder.

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It's very sad and disheartening that works like 'Shades of Grey' get published with very little effort, while many TALENTED writers' works are left to stew in the slush pile.
Many writers are now going the 'Self-Publishing' route, taking the traditional Agent and Publisher out of the equation. If publishers and agents don't pull their collective heads out of their ...holes in the sand, they may soon find themselves as archaic as typewriter repairmen. Wise up, people. Don't let 'Trendy' overcome 'Talent.'

An interesting discussion, slowly morphing into anonymouses taking potshots at one another.

As an out-and-proud elitist, I am not going to read it. But she got one thing right. 50 Shades of Grey is a pretty good title. (Unless it's some Twilight fanfic in-joke that went completely over my head.)

This book deserved to be published because millions of people are reading it and enjoying it. That's the only criteria.

Any agent or editor who represents books in the romance genre and passed on this book doesn't know her field. Period. Stop making excuses. And whining. A key rule of business is to know your target audience. If you want to make your job easier, stop representing dull books only a few thousand people want to read.

And to all those writers struggling to "perfect their craft," wake up and learn what really makes a marketable book.

I'm with anon@8:00 AM.

But then is the capacity to objective there? In other words, the norm has been for agents and editors to choose books for publication based on their *subjective* taste...for the most part. And if that subjective taste is not geared toward marketable books that people want to buy and read, are agents and editors capable of looking at their businesses objectively?

Frankly, I'm not sure they are. Fifty Shades of Grey would have been turned down by most agents just like The Help was turned down by most agents. Two very different books with two very different subjects. And yet both became bestsellers.

Something is broken. Plain and simple.

I'm the anon above. I wanted to add one more thing so no one thinks I'm attacking agents.

Publishing and authors are going to need agents more than ever as things change. But a little less gatekeeping and subjectivity and a lot more objective representation is what they need.

I enjoy erotic romance novels. I made a valiant attempt to read "Fifty Shades ..." and couldn't get past the first four chapters. There was something disturbingly familiar about the dynamic between Ana and Christian (Read: Bella and Edward)that I found off-putting. It was just *so* 1970s Harlequin Romance. But, this simply suggests that I don't find this type of male-female relationship compelling enough to read about, and that perhaps I prefer a more modern tale of courtship between a man and woman who treat each other as peers.

Quality of writing aside, the most important question to ask is why such a large number of female readers *are* riveted by the naive, quivering 21-year-old virgin and the older man equipped with looks, power and extreme wealth when clearly a lot of us writers have been told that this plot device is outdated. I suggest that "Fifty Shades ..." isn't wildly popular just because it introduces a little bit of vanilla kink into the plot; it's popular because women relate to/want to be Bella/Ana.

FIFTY SHADES OF GREY was picked up after it had sold over a quarter of a million copies. That alone justified the advance.

It was picked up by its original publisher, The Writer's[sic] Coffee Shop after it had amassed an audience of somewhere in the neighborhood of two million readers on fanfiction.net.

It was not picked up because of the quality of its writing, and any writer who thinks that writing that way will get them a million dollars is frankly, nuts. It wasn't even picked up because Vintage thought it would sell. It was picked up because it was already selling.

That's a huge difference.

It was a one-in-a-million shot that is likely never going to be repeated. A book with characters so archytepal and flat that they could be exploited by a fanwriter in a way that created an AU far enough to avoid a copyright suit. A fandom around that book so willing to pour its energy into works which had little to do with its source. A history of works within that fan community that had already laid the groundwork for desire for more of Edward Cullen as a human dominant rather than a domineering vampire. The surge in the epublishing industry and in tiny e-publishing mircropresses that allowed some fans to create their own press to publish name-changed fanfiction that most publishing professionals would never lay their hands on.

That's what led to the original sales. And that's what led to the deal.

It was a perfect storm. And a writer who understands the industry and understands the provenance of FIFTY SHADES OF GREY will understand that...how large that number is, however, I couldn't tell you.

I don't think any agent or publisher who would have passed this book up if it had been presented without that original fanbase is in any way misguided. It would not have done as well had it not come from where it did, at the time that it did, and with the huge groundswell of support moving beneath it.

"And to all those writers struggling to "perfect their craft," wake up and learn what really makes a marketable book."

*Wow*

Guys. Game over. You just. You can't get better than this?

I can only hope that if I ever pitch something, that's the kind of writer I'm competing against. Anonymous, could you send us your email, maybe post a date around when you'd like to talk to an agent or an editor? Just. You know. For reference?

Hey, all other writers in this thread, all of you who are passionate and dedicated and working hard? Could you listen to that anonymous? Yeah, all that hard work stuff. Totally unimportant. Yep. Agents and editors are just looking for stuff that's marketable. I hear there's a Battleship movie coming out, maybe you can do something in that vein? Like, a Candyland saga? Avengers sold out, maybe you can write a young adult novel about the adventures of Sargeant United States and his buddy Steel Guy. I think this is the way to go. Yep. Totally.

I like your style. If I were an agent, I would probably feel the same way.

I actually kind of do feel the same way about my own writing. I have tons of ideas, but I don't write every single one... I only write the ones that I love love love.

I think the way you do it is best. I know I wouldn't want someone representing my work if they didn't love it. It makes it all about the money and that should never be what books are about.

Every time I read one of your posts, Kristin, I like you more. And obviously, your method works.

I think you're right, Kristin. Publishing is a long slog and if you don't love the project, you might be tempted to give up on it. I wish all agents were like you!

I think it's commendable that you didn't take on the client. A writer should have an agent who truly loves and truly believes in his or her work, not someone who was just in it for the money.

By choosing not to represent the writer, you allowed them to find someone who did feel that way about the story.

This make complete sense to me. I'm sure your current clients also appreciate you being choosy with how you add to your work load since it will affect your time for them.

I really respect that. Publishing is hard enough when everything goes right, and if you take on a client that you're not crazy about, it becomes that much harder. I wish all agents operated the way you do.

You say you know a number of agents who do treat books like widgets. I know you can't tell us who they are but I sure wish you could. ;)

This makes a lot of sense. When an agent rejected my full, she was very kind in explaining that the ms was great. That she found nothing wrong with it, and that she was rejecting it for personal preference only. It broke my heart and I wanted to have my work published so badly, that I wished she'd just take it on anyway. But since then I've realized that I want an agent who gets my stories, loves my writing, and yearns to see my books on the store shelves just as much as I do.

thank you for sharing

http://storystruelove.blogspot.com/

nice work

It sounds to me like you take on authors – not books – as your clients. :)

That's a quality I love to see in agents!

Although it means that I'm less likely to get accepted by an agent, I'm glad that there are agents out there who value a story they're passionate about over money and sell-potential.

Thank you Kristin. I love your blog and the time you spend educating us about the industry.

I know you have alluded to this approach before and you clearly look out for your clients. When facing rejections it helps to keep this in mind.

I've often wondered about this time thing. Specifically, is it okay to requery an agent for the same project after a certain amount of time? Maybe the first query hit their slush pile at a busy time. Do agents have slow periods and busy periods, or is it always busy?

My gut feeling says no. It's never okay to requery for the same project. But I still wonder...

Thank you for this blog. I am helping my husband research agents, and so far this has been the most helpful place. You have answered all of my questions and then some!

Kristin,

I do the same thing. I make some authors very mad because I won't accept their "best novel ever." But we all have our standards and we need to live by them. I cannot tell you the number of Kindle edition books I read that I ask, "is this self-published?" and then find out it was not, giving me time to reflect on the value of a literary agent who takes time to make sure the best edited product reaches the publisher. We need to set our standards and live by them in our practice.

"I cannot tell you the number of Kindle edition books I read that I ask, "is this self-published?" and then find out it was not, giving me time to reflect on the value of a literary agent who takes time to make sure the best edited product reaches the publisher."

You need to step up your game, dude. Not all self-pubbed Kindle books are unedited. Many of them are being released by published authors with many publishing credits. And, they are making money.

Another point: no publisher expects an edited book. They expect a neat, clean, tight mansucript with a good storyline. When the publisher buys the book they do the editing, and the copy editing. At least that's how it's always worked since I've been in publishing.

It's great to hear you take on the projects you really feel passionate about. This is definitely the way to ensure that the books we read will be of the best quality possible.

Kristin, just like a real-life outing, the journey is often times more interesting than the final destination. As such, I only draw up the 'road map' after my 3rd or 4th revision, concentrating on interesting side trips and other characters I meet along the way (as long as they are important to the plot).
Love the blog, keep it coming. Quite a few of us out there gather in as much info as you have to offer.
Thanks again,
J.W.

Great tip. To me it's all about the story, so I mull the story arc over a lot before beginning. I don't write the storyline out though. It's like starting out on a East to West cross-country road trip without a AAA triptych. But I know where I'm trying to get in the end. What happens on the journey is another thing. I get sidetracked by an intriguing little town off the interstate, or decide to bypass the Grand Canyon. After that, all bets are off.

I'm more favorable to Discovery Writer. I do this less now than a few years ago. It used to be I'd write wherever my characters took me and more than once ended up in a Doomed World where it was absolutely impossible to give a satisfactory end to the book. Since then I tend to mull over where it's going and have a general idea where I want to take it (though this too often changes).
The roadmap is a good way to make sure you don't get too far off track, though as Kristin said at least one revision should be given so you don't lose the creative vibe.

Both? Neither? More like an outliner who then trashes her outline every ten minutes and then writes the story as it should be written, causing another outline to be 'written.' There's always an outline in my head (I killed too many trees trying to write them out!), but it's constantly under revision as the story shifts.

So I guess that makes me panster with delusions of plotting.

I am an extreme panster (maybe I can get a Mountain Dew sport commercial for "extreme pansting?" ;)).

I grab some amazing characters, then we take off and run. I do get frustrated sometimes with the amount of re-writing involved in my style, but at the same time, so many wonderful things have happened in my stories that I never could have planned (ok, not so wonderful for my characters, but good to read ;)).

I think I will always be this way, as for me the joy is in the journey- I figure if I can't wait to see what happens next, hopefully the reader can't wait either.

That being said- a road map would be a VERY helpful thing during the re-write/editing process.

I'm an outliner and I do the road map at least 2x. Outlining is the first - I tweak it as I write the first draft. The second is what I call a story revision. I go through and do as you suggest; ask what each scene does for the story/characters and fill in blank spots and take out what isn't working.
Then I write draft 1.5. That's the draft I revise (times whatever it takes) and polish.
great advice.

I'm a pantser that writes everything by hand for the first draft. Once that's done, I set up a road-map before starting the rewrite, converting the story to a computer-read format.

The reason why I did this: it's the only way I can improve the story I'd written. Without the map, I'd just come up with more versions similar to the original, but not the same, so there wouldn't be an improvement.

Pantser, as far as I know. :) Still learning. But it is incredibly useful to make the roadmap once the book is 'done'. It helps, not just with subsequent drafts, but with writing the dreaded query letter and synopsis. Holy cow. I don't know how I would have written an intelligent summary without it.

Yup, I'm definitely a panster then. Thanks for helping me to clear that up :)

I've tried pantsing and tried outlining bur found that a nice middle ground works best for me. A nice skeleton to give me a little bit of direction but nothing tight and restraining because I know my characters may have a few detours in mind.

Pantser for sure. Then after first draft I tread more carefully, although sometimes even the best plans need alterations. I'm glad there's a name for it ^.^

Pantster, as in fly-by-the-seat-of. I get it--I was wondering what the 'ell a panster was.

I'm a pantser, but I'm going to try to have at least a vague outline for my next novel. It kills me to cut out all the great scenes my characters force me to write. Better if I don't write them in the first place.

I'm some weird hybrid, but I'm learning I lean towards pantster. I tried to force a recent wip to form from outline, and it's ruined the story for me. But I tend to see the plot coming as I get to know my characters. When I do, I write with more purpose.

I agree with Daisy - I'm some odd combination of the two. I usually just write down an outline of scenes or basic points, look for flaws and then proceed to write. My biggest problem comes when I try to outline every detail of the story. That does suck all of the creativity out of me!

If I'm writing for the pure fun of it, I'm a panster. If I'm writing with the intention to share my work with the wider world - whether published as a book or just uploaded to a random internet site - then I'll outline the narrative. Is that pretty standard or...?

I started as a pantser and it took years to finish a first draft. Then I expanded a novella into a novel in a crazy two weeks and developed an "outline" process that worked for me without realizing it.

It wasn't until a couple years ago when I realized that what I called an outline was a very rough first draft written often out of order in Excel that I then sorted, cleaned up, and expanded into my "first draft." What this, and teaching other writers, has taught me is that people are either drawn to or repelled by the word outline, but whether they organize things in their heads as they write or map it out into plot, character, emotion, etc. sections, writers find ways to gain an understanding of the shape of their novel. And yes, some do it before, some after, some during, but I see developing the ability to create this road map as an important step in the journey to a consistently productive writer.

Yes. Exactly! I've been saying that to my plotter friends who shake their heads at my denial of their creative organized genius.

But I'm not denying their genius, just saying it doesn't work for me. I've done a synopsis, outline, etc. thinking it was how "real writers" do it. But those stories, they haven't been written.

I have a novel right now, for a small press I've done shorts for, which I'm working on. I had to write a synopsis, answer questions from the editorial team, and by then? I was bored with the story. Lost my voice had to put the synopsis away and JUST WRITE. Now I'm 55k into it. It's going much better. I'll go through in the revision and make sure I did what's needed to be done according to the approved synopsis, but until then... What synopsis? LOL

Thanks again!!

I write until I get completely and utterly stuck, then I revise and outline, so I guess that means I'm a panster, though I'm delving into the world of outlining first now that I'm writing my first "official" outline. I can see where it will make writing the book easier, but I'm not sure I'll be able to do it if I haven't gotten some of the story down first. Often times, I don't know where the story is going until my characters tell me.

That's really good advice. I'm a big fan of Save the Cat.

I am a total outliner. I write traditional puzzle cozies, and can't imagine not having a full scene-by-scene outline with estimated word count and clue plantings. When I count the scenes and have an estimated word count of 60,000 I'll start my draft. Inevitably I'll revise it about half way through, usually to do what another commenter said about stabilizing chapters, usually a few "sequels" that need to be added in order for the reader to know how the main character is feeling. My estimates are fairly accurate. I'm writing book three in my series this way, and can do up to 2,500 words a day when I'm drafting. Then when the draft is done I start examining the internal scene structure to make sure it works, has some kind of conflict, and adds to the overall arc.

I learned the hard way that I can't let myself go too far without a road map. Though pansting is fun for the first couple chapters, it gets progressively more difficult for me to keep writing without having my world, characters, and plot line set up as a guide. I forget things, ramble, or find that all I'm doing is writing scenes, not a story. With the outline in place, I can start dropping hints early on, revealing backstory and whatnot naturally instead of all at once when I realize I need it.

At the same time, I don't think a writer should be afraid to deviate from the outline if they end up writing things that don't feel right. I've seen friends get some awful blocks from that.

Oh I was a panster with my first novel and I zipped right through it. I'm on my second and I've got outlines, maps, etc and it's taking me forever. I don't even want to mention the serious block I have with this story. A part of me wants the story to write itself so I'm throwing away the map for now. That may change as the story progresses.

Pants-ed it all the way through my first novel, but plotted my second (which I'm currently working on) and I think I'm in love with drawing the road map first!

A bit of both, so far. I start with an outline, and I have to know the ending, but I discover a great deal as I write the first draft, even without deviating much from the outline.

On the current story, I did a road map between the first and second drafts, and while writing the second draft, I'm trying filling out a detailed spreadsheet keeping track of the different characters so I can follow their arcs for the final polishing draft.

I'm a middle-of-the-roadster. With my first novel, I outlined extensively. Writing it turned out to be grueling and the end product was lifeless. Technically fine, but not interesting even for me. With my second novel I started writing with only a basic idea of where I wanted to go and what I wanted to say. Mostly I needed to prove I could actually write a novel with small kids in the house. Loved the process and the end product, but when I workshopped it I got feedback that not enough happens. I needed to raise the stakes. Now I'm starting a third novel with the same characters, setting etc of my second novel and I've put more thought into the skeleton of the plot in advance. Here's hoping the third time is the charm!

I'm sensing a wonderful workshop idea there!

As I read your post I was thinking, 'And? How do I do this?!!'

Great post and I hope you do a workshop of it :). Have a great time at RT!

YES! I a workshop or at the very least some kind of "how to" blog post please.

As an unpublished author I value any opportunity to see my plot with new eyes and to learn a new skill that will aid my writing :)

When I did a rewrite on a story I really loved but that needed major work I created an outline for it before beginning on a new document. I used a very basic plot arc and then expanded it accordingly. (I liked using the numbered list function on Microsoft Word where it's easy to add things before and after and have different levels.) It helped so much for staying focused on the plot. Also helpful was planning a preliminary one-sentence pitch that got to the heart of my conflict so I could make sure it all went back to that.

Workshop! Yes!

Workshop = win. In the meantime, I recommend STORY ENGINEERING, by Larry Brooks. If I ever see publication or sell a spec script, it will be thanks to that book teaching me to see and love the structure.

I think a lot of problems we'd find in a manuscript could be eliminated by making a detailed plan and thinking about the pace and story arcs before we actually start the writing. Conducting your idea at the end would be like double checking, so even better again! Definitely a good idea, thanks for sharing :)

I would take that workshop.

This is something I'm trying to learn to do, but I find myself stumbling. I think it's a fantastic idea though to see how an entire finished story stacks up in a brief overview.

I do that!! So excited to know I'm on the right track. Of course, I'm not sure that I'm doing it WELL...

Wonderful idea, and so many of us can utilize that same principle toward our novel's summary. Thank you!

I write from an outline to make sure I am covering all the important parts of the plot and foreshadowing appropriately. Of course things change a little as rewriting occurs. What I find is that I need more in what I call "bridging chapters" than I expect. A bridging chapter for me is one that has internal conflict and ties together the heavy action in the external conflict chapters. They set the stage, describing the world, and revealing the characters. These chapters are chock full of information but sometimes bog the story down too much. The outline helps me find ways to keep up the pace or even redistribute the information in my "bridging chapters"

I had a rejection that commented on pacing which spurred me to create a roadmap. I write the scene, the GMC of it, and lay it all out. It's easier to manipulate when everything is right there in front of you.

Here's another vote for the workshop. I think I made a roadmap when I wrote my synopsis, but I'm sure it was not as thorough as it could have been.

I actually already do this as a writer, and I've really enjoyed the results. It lets me so how the chapter needs to work in relationship to everything else. What is ultimately it's most important facet? What could be trimmed? It's also helped me when I occasionally re-arrange pieces to re-pace the work.

I agree with Bonnee--it seems like it'd be a good double-check at the end if you are (or are working with) a writer who creates an extensive outline at the beginning. (I sure do.) It'd be interesting and very useful to compare how one planned the story and how the story turned out, and let you more easily determine how scenes relate to each other, whether all the subplots have been carried through to conclusion, and so on. A workshop would be nice!

I do this as well, between the first and second draft. Since I'm a pantser, I often end up with scenes that are great but in the wrong place. So the first thing I do with a rough draft is skim over it and make a detailed outline of all the important things.

Then I can edit the outline for structural problems. I can see where things need to be added or moved or taken away. Gives me a road map for the whole second draft.

I like to do a plot board after the first draft. I use a giant posterboard for each act and have a grid for each scene. Then I use colored post-its to indicate plot points, turning points, romantic turning points, and other important elements. For example, with a mystery, you could a clue post-it to note where in the story the different clues fall.

Then I step back and look at it. If I see a big gap in a certain color, I know that something is missing. It also helps me ensure that each scene has at least two purposes.

It sounds like what I do with my books. After I've written the first draft and edited it a time or three for the major stuff I know in my head is there, I create a detailed outline for the book. Scene by scene and chapter by chapter I break it down, outlining characters, locations and events. Then I use that for the next revision because it just shows the skeleton without all the flesh. So helpful. The first time I did this, I ended up creating a new outline after I'd revised a couple more times to work off of since there were some major changes.

I recently did this on a big, white poster board. A bit primitive, yes, but it helps me to see the story all at once when I'm revising. I had a one-line summary for each chapter. If I need to move chapters around, it's much easier for me to identify a chapter by that one line rather than scrolling through the entire document on my computer, looking for a certain section. It also helps me when it comes time to revise my synopsis.

I would love to know how to do this. I find it very hard to outline before I began writing, but maybe if I knew the best way to get it started...

http://writeyourownworld.blogspot.com

I'm learning the joys (insert sarcasm) of outlining. While the process is enough to make me want to scream, I am seeing where my story is definitely going (and where it's coming from). I think it is ultimately going to be very helpful in the final draft. It already showed me one area of the book that was simply there because it was a neat scene idea, not because it adds anything to the story. Yeah, that scene goes in the "I hope a situation comes up where it's useful one day" pile. *sigh*

I desperately needed to read this!

I haven't been able to finish anything in years and just finished a new ms over the weekend. I'm having trouble contemplating how to even tackle it. Thanks for sharing an editing strategy!

-Lera

What's the difference between this kind of an outline, and a synopsis?
Is it just because the outline is segmented per chapter?

Wait--so God is representing him?

Oh no wait. I got it.


Um...

LOL! What will people think up next?

Holy moly.

Speechless...

That's what happens to me when I take off the tinfoil hat for a few minutes. Makes showering extremely prophetic. *nods*

lol!

It amazes me what you people have to deal with. Writers are crazy people. ;)

That made me snort-laugh! Thanks!

A Biblical vision -- priceless!

Holy offer, Batman!

Your WTF posts make for great conversation topics with my friends and family. They get a good laugh out of them. :)

Unfortunately, Elijah won't be able to actually SELL the book until he returns to Earth to help usher in the Messianic age, by which point all print publishers will be dead.

I know, because Joe Konrath told me so.

*removes tongue from cheek*

And here all I got was a form rejection from Christ & Apostles, LLC.

Wowwwww. That's just... wowwww. I don't even know how I'd reply to that.

A psychic once told me I'd be a published writer...but next to THE God, she's obviously a hack ;-) Hilarious! Feel better, Kristin.

Ok. That is all kinds of awesome.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't count in the big wide world of writers, no offence or anything to that person...

Hey, this can only mean that you are the agent that god has fingered for the real bits of this process. There's no way out of this one!

Too bad people waster your time like that. I am glad you read more seriously when you get those type of e-mails. Because I'd definitely want to send you an e-mail like that if someone else ever offered me representation.

O_O

Shocking.

I don't doubt what you say for one minute, Krisin. However, haven't we all read at least a couple of books that have left us shaking our heads saying, "A literary agent actually thought this was good??!"?

I just checked the last two books I queried you on. One, the response came in one day. Another, the response took three. You guys are some of the fastest responders in the business. How much faster do these people want to hear back from you?!

Ohmy.

Well at least he warned you up front that he is going to be trouble....

Oh wow. I'm...speechless at that one, lol.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of publishing, I will fear no deadline: for thou art my agent; thy rod and thy staff they represent me.

That's...uh...that's...wow.

With family, friends, and acquaintances, I'm constantly fighting the stereotype that artists and writers are insane and/or alcoholic. I think I'll stop fighting now...

At least he didn't say God said to represent him or He shall smite you!!

Oh My God, that's funny.

We had somebody stop by IN PERSON to check the status of his submission. Which he had sent about an hour before.

Good post. Thanks for sharing. I concern on burberry handbags outlet, because I want to buy a burberry leather handbag.

I have to point out what an amazing compliment it is to you that despite an offer from "above," the person turned it down to pursue your agency. ;)

Actually, this ploy was recommended by a young, recently-signed debut author on her blog. This writer was answering questions from her followers as to how to make sure their submissions were taken seriously & therefore read by agents.

I sort of half wondered if people really did that. I guess I got my answer. Yes, people are that unethical.

I was wondering if anyone had done that before too (I would never risk it). Since some agents take months to respond to partial and full manuscript requests, this ploy might actually work. It would be dumb to do it after an initial query though.

Wow.

My first response was: Wow and then I saw that Red Tash said it too :)

There is just no other word that comes to mind.

Thank you. It sounds well thought out, ethical, and fair.

The only comment I'd like to add is that authors who agree to other venues fully understand that most sales of digital books are generated through Amazon. Or through digital publishers web sites. In other words, an e-book can be sent from one venue to another but the sales still come from Amazon as it stands right now.

I think the whole kit and kaboodle is genius. And I've been wondering for a while when an agent would embrace in something like this.

I hope you have great success with this model.

This is really interesting to see, and I hope it works out well for you and the authors who decide to use the service. It sounds like you've spent a lot of time and effort to work the kinks out in advance and to maintain your ethical standards. I'm pleased to see an agent who's looking to the future and attempting to find ways to help authors publish ebooks in more venues.

I've only seen this from the consumer end, where I'll want a book in a particular format and not be able to obtain it, even though it's readily available in another, similar format.

I'm a librarian, and we're pretty much stuck dealing with Overdrive (and their, in my opinion, terrible system) and our patrons don't understand why we aren't getting ebooks in the formats they prefer, nor why we keep using a system that doesn't function well. We can finally get Kindle books, but it's been a long battle and there are a lot of issues still to be resolved.

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This last year, I decided to self-pub the middle grade novels I'd written (2 series novels and 3 related short stories), and I'm currently editing #3 for uploading.

And NLA's DLP would be something I would jump at. Like anything new, there is a HUGE learning curve with self-publishing. I know numerous authors who are doing well and making decent money at it.

Many of them have a few added advantages:
1) a known name (published traditionally)
2) writing in an established genre (romance, erotica, etc). MG is relatively new in ebooks because the parent is still monitoring downloads and most kids don't have an e-reader(though they were big gifts this last Christmas!)
3) a networking platform that reaches out to potential readers, prior to SP endeavor.

I've had a tough time finding reviewers for my MG novels. In fact, I've been on one waiting list for over 7 months. Having an agent who has access to numerous reviewers would be wonderful.

Finding a designer for cover art is hard . . . and a crap shoot. What I want to see on a cover isn't necessarily what sells the cover. To that end, I LOVE my covers.

Don't even ask me about foreign sales. True, Amazon has opened new shops in numerous countries, but they want to read TRANSLATIONS and not the English version. Finding (and paying a translator) is totally out of my abilities.

I'm sure there are a few more points I'd like to make, but I need to walk my kidlet to school!

This is a very intriguing offer, in my opinion. I recently read about another book that used a similar idea, where the agent offered help for it.

I personally am hoping to go the traditional route, but something like this is just as viable to me, for example, if no publishers show interest.

My question is, how do you choose people to use this service? I know the author elects to do so, but do they need to query you first, specifically for it? Or is it a case where the book didn't sell to a publisher, and you offer to give them this sort of representation?

:-)

Off topic...

I just wanted to say that I really liked your entry for Erica's contest. It's delightfully awful!

And if Blogger eats my comment for the third time, I want to know why. :D

Just to say I think this is a great model, Kristin, and I love the idea. Thanks for all you do to support your authors. Even if I'm not one of them, it gives me the warm fuzzies to see an agent so involved.

I find it interesting that a new type of service is still compensated by the "old" standards.

Why 15%? Why put in the loophole of having a two-year minimum in your liaison agreement to cover your risk? Why not price the service for what it is?

I'm still waiting to hear about that "fresh new idea" from an agency on how they can help the writer in the e-market. (Gee, haven't we heard that request before?)

I've followed this blog for quite some time and appreciate all the insight you've provided. Please keep this conversation going. The agent's role in the new way of publishing has yet to be clearly articulated and NLA is an agency who could make this happen.

Thank you, Kristen, for your honesty and putting yourself out there in the best interest of all writers, not just your clients.

Lisa

I don't think much slows down this time of year. My life only picks up pace, in all areas. Congrats on business going well. Way to end 2011 with a bang!

Glad to hear things are crazy for everyone. Have a good Holiday.

I think a lot of businesses get a little crazy in December because they're trying to get a lot done before the break. I work in a university library, and we've certainly been crazy the last two weeks as students have been finishing up their quarter.

I guess the next two weeks will be a bit slower, though. Huh.

My point in general still stands!

When you work in e-publishing there is no slow time. It is constantly moving.

And now that hippopotamus song is stuck in my head. :)

have a good holiday for everyone on this december!

You don't like the hippopotamus song? Change it up!

"I want a hypothalamus for Christmas,
Only a hypothalamus will do!
Don't give me glands
To hold in my hands,
No adrenals, pancreas or thyroid,
But only a hypothalamus will do!"

How's that?