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That's distressing to hear, because all of my favorite books have prologues, and I think they have great ones. I'll never understand readers who skip prologues.

That was interesting stuff. The world building part reminds me of almost every fantasy novel I've ever read--the world or big bad guy shows up in the prologue, then when the book starts we meet our humble hero.

Just curious: what do you think about framing/bookending? Putting the end first as a pseudo-prologue--maybe the first half of the last chapter--then ending the book with the rest of the last chapter. Is that cheating? :)

You're absolutely right, Kristin, and the best example is from cinema, the opening to Star Wars: Episode IV, which violates all three of your observations plus whatever other criticism you didn't have room for in your post. It was a colossal mistake and insult to the audience. It's no different for books.

Kristen,

I'm a published writer of one book (so far), and this is *exactly* what I told my niece just the other day!

I don't like prologues. I will put books with prologues back on the shelf most of the time for these very reasons.

A writer needs to know where the story should start, and how to expose crucial details without the infamous "info dump". :)

Thanks Kristin!

I think one of the prologues that annoys me the most is the Twilight ones where it cuts forward to the climax (When the action actually happens) just to build tension, because the real start of the story doesn't have much tension at all. I am a sucker for some prologues done right though. Great post!

Can you give examples of when a prologue does actually work for you?

I first encountered readers who skipped the prologue six years ago when I joined a writing forum for fantasy writers. For quite awhile I was baffled as to why anyone would do that. I thought that perhaps it was just this small group of writers, then I joined a different group and there was a split between those who did read the prologue and those who didn't read it.

Then I noticed that almost everyone who had said that they didn't read the prologue primarily read fantasy fiction.

At the same time, I was beta-reading fantasy stories and several of them had really poorly written prologues with the same characteristics you've given here. And then I picked up a published fantasy novel with a poorly written prologue.

All of this led me to conclude that the poorly written prologue which can be safely skipped over is unique to the fantasy genre. This probably can be traced back to Tolkien and his opening "Concerning Hobbits."

Outside of the fantasy genre, prologues are generally well done and need to be read to understand the story. I was going to suggest a post on what makes a good prologue, but it is probably safer to just tell writers to not put one in.

This is very helpful, as I just finished writing a prologue in a half-finished manuscript and am now debating whether it's needed or not.

If a prologue does not do any of those things you mentioned, do you still believe it's a bad idea?

If it's introducing relevant plot details that happen outside the main time frame of the story, but adds a needed layer of information that brings a poignancy to the reader's impressions of the main story, do you still feel that's better incorporated as flashbacks? Even if the prologue involves no info-dumping and is almost entirely character-building through incident and dialogue?

Oddly enough, these three reasons are precisely what I have against the first chapter of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. Not that it made much of a difference--I love that book!--but when I re-read, I hardly ever start with chapter one, since it is nothing but prologue disguised as a first chapter.

I agree that a lot of prologues are pretty terrible and skip-worthy, but they do serve a purpose sometimes and that can be valuable. The best prologue sets up dramatic irony by telling us-the-reader something important than the character does not and cannot possibly know at the outset of the story.

I actually got so annoyed with a "no prologues ever" argument that I wrote a whole blog post in defense of them: http://tlbodine.blogspot.com/2012/05/great-prologue-debate.html

But I'll grant Kristin that she's quite right on all three points. It's just a shame that so many people are doing this wrong that the few who might be doing it right will be caught in the crossfire.

What an awesome tip!! It was great to hear what you thought about prologues.

I'm with you, Ted. As a reader, I always read them. I don't understand people who don't. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Personally, I don't like them because for the most part they are back story and info dumping and there are very few writers who can execute them right. Now, having to say that they must've been a norm or a standard thing back in the '80s or earlier since almost every book published around that time has one. And Tim Powers "On Stranger Tides" has four prologues and legends before you even get into the story.

Thanks for the great tips on why prologues generally don't work. Great advice to save it for after the agent requests a full. And I love this Friday series.

Great tips and they all make sense. Perhaps this message is more for the novice or unpublished. As around 60% of novels I read have prologues. Xx

I love prologues and epilogues too for that matter. As a reader I see them as bonus matter for the book. It adds to the enjoyment of the story if done right.

Hi Kirstin,

Thanks for posting your expertise on Prologue. I've had this whole prologue dilemma and whether it works for my story or not.

I had written a historical prologue that didn't fit in. So then I did the inevitable, I trashed it and thought what would truly be enough of a bite but not long drivel in order to give background as to why this whole story took place in the first place. What set the wheels in motion for mystory?

I created two prologues (don't cringe Kristin) like two separate scenes in a movie, flash, flash. Both prologues are no more than three short paragraphs each. The POV is the same as the rest of the book.

It's just enough of a teaser as a prologue to hook them in. I believe a prologue should be just as much as a hook as the first chapter. Especially if it is paramount to the rest of the story and especially if the prologue/backstory is beginning of whence an actual event took place. Truthfully the prologue can be seen as the bridge that allows the past to flow into and connect with the future. The prologue/backstory is the pinnacle of empowerment that propels the plot forward.

Having said that I agree that it should not be long and cumbersome for the reader and it should not read differently from the rest of the book. The style and execution should flow.

I know you are probably saying no, no, no and shaking your head that it won't work but for me it works and I really believe it will work for the readers. It's how the writer weaves the story to connect that past present and future within the writing that makes a prologue either successful or a mere waste of pages.

Clearly, the question we writers need to ask over and over again is, "do my readers need to know this?" If yes then by all means put it in. If no then cut it out and don't weep over it.

Smiles,
Efthalia

Good to know! I am not a big fan of prologues, but ended up including one in my first manuscript because a friend was simultaneously writing a story focusing on a minor character in mine, and we wanted to link them together. (Then she didn't finish hers, and well... I should have taken the prologue out but didn't. Maybe I'll go back and fix it and query again ;)

That's the kind of "rant" about prologues I like to see. I've had WAY too many people just throw up their hands and say "Dunno, prologues aren't in fashion now, never ever ever use them and make sure you tell everyone who has a prologue that they are doomed to failure".

Personally, I experimented with them in a couple novels, but whenever I read them back it was pretty obvious that I was being CLEVER. And whenever I can tell that I'm trying too hard, it's time for a rewrite ;)

I have prologues in each of the 4 books of my series.

The first one is an excerpt from later in the book to tell people the type of story it is. It's a SF/Fantasy mix but starts at the Robin Hood Festival in Sherwood Forest, so no obvious link (though there is one).

The ones for the other books are more excerpts, from earlier books as reminders of important things that will be referenced later.

Obviously I think they all work.

Probably it would be best to say that bad prologues don't work but good ones do.

Having said that, if I pick up a book in a shop I don't read the prologue there. The first chapter is a better indication of if I will like the book. I do read it when I get home though.

I'm almost finished with the first draft of my novel, and have began planning my second. I decided a few weeks ago that I would delete the prologue in the second draft for the third reason. My story reads quite differently from the tone and action of the prologue! Thank you for posting this--it helped reinforce my decision.

Hi Kristin,

I guess the key phrase is "...for aspiring writers" or new authors who use prologues for the reasons you've stated. As an agent that must read loads of poorly written work, I understand your position. It's good advice.

Some of my stories require prologues, most do not. Obviously, it all depends. Honestly, I can't imagine a serious reader following such a silly rule, or any other such rule. Imagine choosing a book off the shelf, reading the jacket with interest, and then check to see if it has a prologue before purchasing. Who does that?

I always loved prologues, never knew using them would be like painting a big L (loser) on my manuscript. My critique partners (violent prologue haters)have left me afraid of them. After removing it from my story, I understand now. To me, it just reads better without it. Thanks for the advice.

"Different writing style and POV then . . ."

S/B "than"

Sorry, proofreading's part of my job.

I guess I should probably stop writing them, then. :D

While I love Fridays with Kristin, I really can't stand the black screen tips, particularly the cheesy music. I'm having flashbacks of The Big Friendly Giant segues.

Very helpful tip here. Getting the beginning of a novel is always one of the hardest parts of writing for me.

Awesome advice. I love your necklace, too. And that you are listening to Yellow.

Okay, off to identify my plot catalyst...

Terrific vlog! Professional, easy to understand, and very enlightening. Personally I liked the black screens and music. Having those breaks gave the points time to sink in. Thanks for emphasizing that the catalyst must be more than just a theme and for clarifying with the excellent Legends example.

Most of all thank you for taking the time to produce these educational vlogs for us. Very helpful!

Thank you for the great advice. I've never heard it as succinctly as here.
One question though, at the end you say that if the plot catalyst isn't within the first 20-30 pages, the story might be starting too late. I always thought it meant the story started too early? And that one should get rid of the backstory and jump straight to the moments before the catalyst takes place.
(don't mean to be a stickler, I just want to understand)
Thanks again.

Wow! Thanks for the clarity in describing the plot catalyst. I, too, was grateful for the black print screens. It helps to hear it said and then see it written. Plus I am able to freeze my screen and read it again as I think about applying the concept to my own novel.

I've just finished revising my query based on this informative vlog ... thanks so much Kristen. You are awesome.
L.

These videos have been so helpful! Thanks!

Another vote for the black screens and the music. And another thank you to Kristin. About PBluff's question about starting a novel too early or too late: Last year at the Backspace Conference's opening pages critique, Kristin and Emily Keyees advised me that my novel started too late. I backed it up about 10 pages and -voila - cleared out a lot of backstory. Pertinent to this vblog, it also moved the plot catalyst out of the main character's head and into the story's action. Another thank you to Kristin is in order!

I definitely have a plot catalyst, but I also forgot to start my new query letter with a one-sentence summary of it. Thanks for the reminder.

Another vote for the black screen and white letters. Sometimes I pause the video to write it down for myself. :)

I'd never heard the term plot catalyst, but once you started explaining, I knew what it was.

Great episode!

PBuff - The inciting incident should be as close as possible to the start of the story. I think plot catalyst is the same as "first plot point" (also known as first act turn).

Here's a good link explaining the differences (with movies as examples): http://storyfanatic.com/articles/story-structure/plot-points-and-the-inciting-incident

What an awesome vblog! Love the humor and the top is right on as always.
Thank you!

Ouch - I misspelled Emily Keyes last name - has two 'e's not three!

Thanks for the helpful tips on the plot catalyst. It really helped to see it when you used the example from Marie Lu's book. That's a great book BTW and Marie is such a nice person.

Do you ever blink?

Kristin - that's excellent. It's given me a method / focus for blurbing my novel ('A Maid of Kirin' on B&N Nook and Amazon Kindle) -

A boy falls through an ancient burial site into a magical world where a slave girl's quest to save a kingdom becomes his own struggle to find a way home.

great advice. maybe if I follow it I could land an agent!

Excellent. This helps me so much. I have always tried to condense the complete text, so naturally, have lost the war.
http://adventurebuilding.blogspot.com/

Thanks for this informative vlog! I have a question though. Some agents or editors ask for a 1-2 page synopsis, not the up to 10 pages you mention here. How do I decide what to include?

Thanks, Kristin, and have an enjoyable and productive trip to Italy.

Andrea - what I've seen is they usually tell you what they want on their submission guidelines, whether it's a long synopsis or a short one.

I've spent days researching this and you summed it up in 4 minutes and 26 seconds. Your vlogs are a great resource!

Andrea, from what I understand, the 1-2 page synopsis is a play-by-play that focuses on the major points of the novel. You want the story arc to be clear, from beginning to end. And if you can let your voice shine through, you have a winner.

Thanks, Kristin, as always your blog/vlog was informative, clear, and concise.

What a wonderful resource.

Have a great time in Italy!

I was with Andrea up there - 10 pages sure sounds reasonable to me, especially when your actual book is 300+, but (aside from querying on pink perfumed stationery), NOTHING seems surer to get you tossed into the trash these days than over-length on any front - query too long, word count too high, synopsis too detailed. Like Jeff says, though, you can't ever go wrong with following the directions - the hardest part is knowing what to do when explicit directions aren't listed.

But to the subject: great post, needless to say, very friendly and informative. I wonder if the pitch changes at all if you're giving it in person - I've got one of those scheduled in May, and I'm quaking in my boots at the very idea...!

I've always been told the max a synopsis should be is 5 pages... I would LOVE to do one in ten, ha! I take it it's 10-12, double-spaced?

Tex,

It’s been a while, but I’ve done a few conference pitch sessions – it’s actually how I landed Kristin as my agent. I found it best to keep the pitch as short as the one or two lines Kristin describes in her vlog. Start by introducing yourself; briefly include your writing history if you think it works in your favor. If you're a fan of one of the agent's clients or her blog, let her know. The intro relaxes you and gives the agent a second to transition from her last pitch to you. Then give your 1-2 line pitch. If you’ve been making the most of the conference and meeting people, you’ve probably said your pitch 20 times before meeting the agent, so it should come more easily. Then leave the last half of your pitch session (they typically last 8-10 minutes) for questions you or the agent may have. The agent will usually ask a few about your pitch. These minutes go by quickly, so don’t worry that you’ll have to fill the time. If you do have time left, either ask substantive questions you’ve always wanted to ask an agent, or go ahead and wrap up. The agent will probably appreciate a spare minute or two since they do many pitches, all day long. Good luck!

Kimberly:

Let me go a step past the usual and say that that is without a doubt the most helpful thing I ever WILL read. Thank you so much for taking the time to spell it out for me! I will start hammering those lines out right now, so that by the time I actually get up to the agent, I can focus on the friendlier, impromptu side of things, and just whip this out of my pocket worry-free. Much obliged, ma'am!

I love this series, Agent Kirsten! You always seem professional and likable in your posts, and it's lovely to see it confirmed in your videos.

Thanks for being so invested in writers. We really appreciate the help!

Typo. Argh. The worst kind of typo, even! Plus, I can't fix it. Don't hate me. I promise I know your name.

Someone asked that question at a conference once, and the answer from (I think) Barry Goldblatt was the only two things you didn't want to do in YA were the 2 B's: boring and bestiality.

Boring and bestiality!!! Haha that's great!

My attitude is that YA readers are going to grow up someday, and many of them are already more grown up than you might think. I think they have the maturity and the need to read about and think about more controversial/difficult topics.

I guess boring bestiality is a no-no then? Here goes my next book idea! :)

Funnily enough, I was thinking about E4's YA sci-fi TV series "Misfits" today and thinking about the question of what, if anything, would be out of bounds for that show. The answer is probably, "Nothing."

As I recall, as a teenager, I can't think of any subject that was actually out of bounds for my friends and me. Which is probably as it should be for enquiring young minds.

While Misfits is a brilliant show, it doesn't hold a candle in terms of "out of bounds", to the UK show The Inbetweeners. And yet, that show feels absolutely genuine and true. In my opinion, that's the key. Make it stem from character and be true to their experience.

I hope there are no off-limit topics in YA fiction - but that they should be addressed responsibly (if a teen girl is going to be handing out the goods to the entire football team, there's bound to be consequences). MG is a bit more questionable, with a similar thought to PG movies.
I do think if an author would like to push the expected boundaries of what is acceptable, the polite thing would be to make it known before the book is read.
Wagging Tales

I think this is not just about being rated PG or PG-13 thing.

It's a basic thing of what your target audience will be interested in.

I remember giving a chapter of my YA novel (very clean chapter) to an eleven year old I'm related to and asking her what she thought of it.

She said, "boring." Then I gave the same chapter to the same girl when she was 14 and I had to get her mother's permission to give her the whole book.

There is sex, pagan rituals, murder, homosexuality, and material that could be considering insulting to three major religions...

Her mother gave her okay and the the girl read it one sitting saying that it was the most fun read she had in years...

The thing is teenagers are interested in those "controversial matters" which are not controversial at all if you ask me.

Not to write about them or editing them out, is lying, and teens spot lies a mile away.

When they become adults they start believing lies but when they are on the cusp of adulthood they still have this innate ability to smell a rat.

Or is it the other way around? Once we lose this ability, we become adults?

Anyway. I'm dying to hear what Kristin has to say!

Come on YouTube!

By the way a whole bunch of social media is experiencing problems. Twitter is as good as down - massive problems.

It's all in the approach...absolutely! MG readers today are the YA of tomorrow. Life is full of wonders and terrors, both awesome and fearsome. For writing to remain true, it must be able to encapsulate the entire spectrum. It's the reason, and the finessing that will determine the author's success. Here's to brave authors creating new work of literary art.

Love the way it's about asking the right question :) I believe anything is acceptable anywhere if it's in good taste; the character/plot development and not just there for the sensational/shot value.

I enjoyed reading your blog. I see you offer priceless info. Will definitely come back for more of this.

I rather like the counter question to this one. What difficult topics are good to include in stories. IMHO, people fall in love with books because the books mean something to them. The stories help them through hard times, or provide them with examples on how to conquer problems. (And if people fall in love with books, they'll buy them and tell their friends to buy them, which is always good).

Good topics for YA? What challenges are YA folk facing today.
* Bullying
* Abuse
* Feeling 'different'
* Feeling powerless
* Sexuality and romantic feelings
* loss

There are many more. I'd say don't hold back. Chat with YA folk, find out the extent of the problems they are facing, and write to that.

Kristin, thank you so much for addressing these questions on YA and MG. I'm really enjoying the Youtube approach.

Great video! This really clarified the difference of possible word count for me!
~Sarah F.

This is another great post. And I so agree that there are different levels of middle grade. I really think more book review bloggers would enjoy the upper level middle grade if they gave it a chance and could help promote these books more. I'm going to be discussing this on my blog in two weeks because it's been on my mind.

I love Janice's books BTW and interviewed her twice at Literary Rambles last year with book giveaways. She's got a great blog too.

Great post. I always thought middle grade meant ages 9-12. I would never have thought it would go as low as the Magic Treehouse series.

I find my work falls firmly in the upper middle grade.

Question, can a series have a variety of word counts? Say, 20,000for the first book and then 40,000for the second? Is that a no-no?

Brian Clopper

Thanks Kristin,
That was interesting. When you're pitching a book, would you state that it's a "level three" middle grade novel, or assume that an agent could figure it out from a well-written query letter?

Thanks for that. I think I understand the definitions better now, although it's tricky for me as a UK writer who came through the UK school system to get a good grasp of what ages middle grade equates to.

@Kristin,

Would it be possible to elaborate on how the age of the main character relates to which level of Middle Grade your novel would be classified as? I'm currently writing a novel where the main character is 10 years old. Does that automatically put the novel at a level 1 or 2?

Thanks for the post!

Janice's books BTW is really so popular in the College now!

That was really helpful, Kristin! Wish it had been around when I was querying. I've often wondered where "upper middle grade" started.