new posts in all blogs
Viewing: Blog Posts Tagged with: Chum Bucket, Most Recent at Top [Help]
Results 1 - 10 of 10
How to use this Page
You are viewing the most recent posts tagged with the words: Chum Bucket in the JacketFlap blog reader. What is a tag? Think of a tag as a keyword or category label. Tags can both help you find posts on JacketFlap.com as well as provide an easy way for you to "remember" and classify posts for later recall. Try adding a tag yourself by clicking "Add a tag" below a post's header. Scroll down through the list of Recent Posts in the left column and click on a post title that sounds interesting. You can view all posts from a specific blog by clicking the Blog name in the right column, or you can click a 'More Posts from this Blog' link in any individual post.
ChumBucket is one of my favorite things. I love the option of talking to writers directly, maybe giving them some help on their queries or some insight on why their novels aren't for me.
We had 25 rounds where every person who replied adhered to our social contract not to reply with something insulting.
That ended Saturday night.
I had kind of hoped it could go forever. I know it was unrealistic, I did. But I work in publishing. I'm all about unreality.
The reply wasn't vituperative but it's the kind of thing that makes me cranky:
And I'm sorry to say you sort of confirms my impression of literary agents. You're never satisfied and nothing seems to be good enough for you.
I don't mean to be rude and I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings.
My options for writing now are either to stop altogether or to self-publish my book/s.
And the deeply ironic thing is he received a reply that was utterly tame compared to some of the eviscerations I've sent to writers---writers who responded civilly to what was said, and not with sweeping generalizations about agents that are just plain fuckyou wrong.
Chum Bucket.
After 16 weeks of Chum Bucket nights, I'm in awe of the talent, courtesy and tenacity of the writers who query me.
I hope I don't sound maudlin if I say it restored my faith in the query process.
It came about by sheer accident (but then, a lot of great things -- at least in my life -- do!)
I'd been on a query hiatus. When it ended, I forgot. Query writers did not. They queried. I wrote back. I'd fallen out of the habit of clicking the form response.
Then, a miracle.
A miracle in the form of Ashley Z writing back to thank me for what I'd said. She pointed out it hadn't taken me very long to write the email, but it was of great value to her.
Such a small thing, and yet, that's what it took to make me realize that if people WANTED feedback, and were willing to buy in to the social contract to not respond angrily, we could do some really good work here.
And we have.
I confess I'm astonished we've gone 16 rounds with not a single angry response. Let me assure you that it wasn't cause the replies were decorated in flowers and pink frosting either. I was as direct and to the point as always---and that's the kind of stuff that is VERY hard to hear.
I truly believe the secret is that we aren't talking about it widely. I've asked people not to tweet about it, or blog about it. It's something you know about if you're paying attention to my blog, or my twitter feed. That means the people who are participating are generally the ones I WANT to talk to. The ones willing to hear direct comments. To suck it up and come back for more.
Can it go on? Probably not forever, but honestly, at this point, I'm in.
Thank you to all the writers who queried during Chum Bucket. You made my year.
And let's hear it for our Number One Chum: Thanks Ashley!
Total queries: 15! Lowest turnout yet.
First draft writing: 3
A good query gets me reading pages and often as not, the novel simply isn't ready to query. Over writing, starting at the wrong place, no world building, too much dialogue, lots of things can make me stop reading those pages and say no.
One of the best ways to train your eye to recognize this is read good books and copy the first couple paragraphs in your writer's journal. The act of actually writing the words you're reading helps you see them. It trains your eye and ear for cadence and balance. And if you read 100 books, you can start synthesizing some of the tricks that all authors use to get you into the story.
Novel was too short: 1
I look for novels between 80-100K. I don't auto-reject anything for the adult trade market until it's below 60K.
Middle-grade (referred to Brooks Sherman): 1
I don't do middle grade books but Brooks Sherman does and he's actively looking for projects.
Referred on: 2
I don't have as much room on my list as some of my colleagues so if I think something sounds good, but not quite what I'm hungering for, I'll pass you along to one of them.
Can't sell it: 1
There's a blog post about this here
Not actively looking for this
--small scale, amateur sleuth, regional mystery: 1
--YA fantasy: 1
---Urban fantasy: 1
---Zombie novels: 1
--too introspective or abstract: 3
Next chum bucket is Saturday 9/15!
One of my favorite replies of all time:
I like you too but you scare the shit out of me. (name withheld)
I got 50 queries in the hour window. Here's a rundown on what best described the responses:
Queries for a category I don't take on: 21
Query needs work/some words of advice: 10
Not right for me: 5
Not a clue about what's happening in the novel/some words of advice: 3
Can't sell this: 4
Get to QueryShark please: 2
Not big enough: 2
Tried a book like this and it flopped/learned my lesson: 2
No second editions: 1
Not enough platform: 1
too scary: 2
Questions?
would it be a waste of both our time for me to submit to the Chum Bucket if...
1) I write historical romance, which doesn't seem to be one of your areas of interest
2) another agent at FinePrint already requested the full manuscript?
It's the (2) rather than the (1).
When you query, you should query one agent per agency at a time.
If that other agent says no, you're welcome to query me, although you're right that's not one of my categories. But, you never know. The worst thing that can happen is I'll say no.
A commenter on the recent Chum Bucket results tally asks:
When you say "referral", does that mean you actually contact another agent and tell them about the query you received?
No, not usually. When I see a query for a project that intrigues me and it's for a category I don't take on (middle grade, YA, romance etc) I sometimes say "Query Brooks Sherman here at FPLM; Query one of those hotshots over at BookEnds LLC; Query the Amazing and Talented Suzie Townsend at New Leaf."
I don't call any of them up (or email, semaphore or smoke signal) to say I've sent a querier. What you do instead is write in the very first line of your query "Janet Reid gave me your name after she read my query in the Chum Bucket Query Hour last Saturday night."
Here's why you use that exact sentence:
1. It's critical you give my name. Anything that cloaks the recommender in anonymity is instantly discounted by the agent you're now querying.
2. Make sure you say "read my query" rather than "read my pages" so the agent you're now querying knows I didn't read and pass on the full
3. Make sure you say Chum Bucket. That means my pals know I was responding personally to your email and it wasn't some blanket statement at a conference. Generally I'm going to send you to my pals, colleagues I know and trust, that I follow on Twitter and in the blogosphere.
Very very rarely do I call an agent and insist she take a look at a project. I can think of fewer than five times I've done that and each was such a special circumstance that it would not apply to 99.9% of the people reading this blog.
Last weeks Chum Bucket query results had a category called "Can't sell this." Several commenters asked for clarification.
For ME (thus do not apply this to what other agents do or think) it means the book may be perfectly delightful BUT I don't know who I'd sell it to.
This can happen a couple of different ways: I may have tried to sell books like this in the past and come up short; I don't know any editors who are buying this kind of book; and/or the only publishers taking on this kind of book don't pay enough for it to be profitable for us.
It's a subcategory of "Not for me" but it's not really the book, it's the market. Really good books, books that I love, can end up in this category and it gnaws me to no end when that happens.
Tonight I got 43 queries in the Chum Bucket. Here's the breakdown of what the responses looked like:
Just not for me/didn't grab me: 14
By far and away the biggest category. What you should take away from this is all those form rejections do not mean your writing sucks. It means you're just writing something that's not
my cup of tea. This is why you query widely. This is why you don't set your heart on one agent and think the world will end if s/he doesn't take you on.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejections
Not my category: 10I get a lot of things that aren't my categories cause I've sold things that aren't categories I seek out or sign people for. This is why you look at what the agent is looking for in addition to what s/he has sold.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejectionsCan't sell this: 4I'm getting a little paranoid about how often I'm saying this cause I have this image of people saying "janet reid said she can't sell this" and about a zillion people thinking it means I can't sell anything. I'm not good at selling some kinds of books. Other agents are.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejections
Query improvement suggestions: 4 I made suggestions for improving queries to four people. I'm hoping they don't form a mob and come after me. This is where I often get in to trouble with authors. Unasked for advice isn't always received the way I hope.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: most likely form rejectionsDidn't want to read this: 3Some of you are writing stuff that is so depressing it just makes me wonder how you got through the entire novel. I really really think characters have to be interesting and compelling, and depressed sad characters aren't that.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejectionsWriting: 2 The writing just wasn't up to publication standards.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejectionsAsked for more info: 2A couple of queriers are repeat visitors and I needed more info.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: NOT form rejectionsReferral: 1Not for me, but one of my colleagues should hear from you.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: NOT form rejectionsWhat is the book about?: 2If you don't tell me what the book is about it's a rejection.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejections This query is a mess to the point I said No: 1These usually involve a plea to read the QueryShark blog.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejections sometimes bolding the link to QueryShark.
too short for category: 1Novels generally need to run more than 60K and less than 120K. Anything outside
those guidelines gets a quizzical read. Most often I can see from the query or pages that the length is a problem in the writing, not the story.
The non-Chum Bucket reply would have been: form rejectionsMarked up pages/revised query welcome: 1&nb
1. Query exactly as you would normally: to my FPLM email address with a query and 3-5 pages in the body of the email. This is querying for real. I have requested fulls from queries received in the Chum Bucket
2. MUST have "Chum Bucket" in the subject line.
This is your agreement you want a personal reply. The ONE person (so far anyway) who replied testily was a querier who queried during the time period but without the subject line. (I sent her a form rejection and told her to replace the email with helpful info with this new one--yes I was annoyed.)
3. Query only if you're ready to send a manuscript THAT MINUTE.
I'm reading these when you send them and replying soon after. Be READY.
4. Query for anything you want but here are the things I'm not actively looking for:
A. Anything YA. I've sold YA but it was for clients I signed for adult projects. YA is not a strong category for me, and you'd be better off with a hotshot agent like Suzie Townsend at New Leaf for your YA stuff. Or Holly Root at Waxman. Or several others who are Amazing.
B. Anything paranormal, or supernatural. I don't read enough of this category to represent it well. Look for an agent who does.
C. Science fiction or fantasy. Again, not something I read a lot of so you need someone who knows the category.
D. Horror. I represent one of the very best horror writers around too, but frankly, the writing scares the crap out of me, so one is enough.
E. Suspense. Psychological, romantic or otherwise. Again, it scares me. Yes I am a wuss. Sad but true.
5. Here are the things I'm actively looking for:
A. Narrative non-fiction, principally history and biography.
B. High concept crime thrillers
C. Astonishing-mind boggling-throw-your-hands-up-with-joy at the beauty of the writing literary fiction.
6. This experiment depends on a social contract that you will not respond to me with some invective laden email. You can write it. You just can't send it. If you want to reply, I'm glad to hear from you but I'd really REALLY appreciate it not being hostile.
And I mean it when I say it's ok to reply here. I've learned some valuable things and one of them led to yesterday's blog post about how to query memoir.
7. I'm not advertising Chum Bucket far and wide. I want to limit the people who participate to those who read this blog and follow me on twitter. It improves the chances the interactions will be civil, and also that the queries will be real. Thus, NOT talking about it on writer chat boards is strongly encouraged.
8. The experiment is slated to run through the end of August. I'll decide then if we'll continue.
I should also say I love doing this. LOVE doing it. It's honest to god fun to talk to you, and some of the things you write back are words I will treasure forever. It's amazing to be able to help people. It's amazing to break down some of the barriers that we've put up. It's amazing just to TALK to you when you aren't petrified and I'm not tired/annoyed/looking for a drink.(I'm always looking for a drink.)
Questions? Comments? Bar suggestions? Feel free to let fly in the comments section here. I'll add to the FAQ as needed.
Perhaps this illustrates the absolute difference between a writer who is in it to create the finest work he or she is capable of - someone who is truly committed to crafting great stories with great words - and a writer who has the sole aim of getting published. The gift of a publishing professional who knows more and better, and is prepared to spend time, is clearly lost on that individual. Still, 25 rounds isn't a bad run. More than twice a heavyweight bout. Without injury or concussion.
I'd endorse the first option. If you can't take rejection and bad reviews, then the life of a writer is not for you-- and definitely not the life of a writer whose standard is "good enough."
(What are the odds that, if and when this is published, any negative responses will only confirm the person's low opinion of readers and critics?)
That's a bummer.
I've seen the sentiment about agents before; sometimes, it's just frustration spilling over. You think you've got a good book, you've been slaving over your query, and you get rejection after rejection after rejection. Venting is understandable. Venting publicly is inadvisable. Venting at an agent is imbecilic.
I wonder how many rejections this guy has gotten. I'm seeing more and more people say they're going to turn to self-publishing after getting ten to twenty rejections. We are living in an increasingly-impatient society.
I hope this will not discourage you from continuing Chum Bucket, Janet. It's something you enjoy, and something MOST writers appreciate. It would be a shame if you felt like you had to give it up.
Maybe that "writer?" should craft an autobiography on the life and laws of Charles Darwin.
Then his life would imitate his art...darwinism at it's most base.
I imagine a majority of those fortunate enough to have been part of The Chum Bucket, realise how invaluable it was.
Bigger and Better Shark.
I hope this doesn't mean the end for the Chum Bucket. Writers love what you do and appreciate it tremendously - myself included. I hope one jerk-face doesn't ruin it for everyone, you included.
*supportive high-five*
That's really sad. I wish I'd had the Chum Bucket around when I was querying.
I think the ironic thing here is that this writer thinks there is such a thing as "good enough." It always disheartens me to hear a writer say something is or should be good enough, and follow that up with some example of a book that was published that wasn't maybe the most well written. No writer should ever settle for "good enough." If we're not turning in our absolute best material, then what the heck are we writing for?
Sadly, I think that if this writer really feels that "good enough" is really good enough, then maybe quitting writing altogether is the right option.
Being published is a goal, it's not THE goal. Writing the best book possible, the book that only YOU can write...that's THE goal.
This is NOT the end of the Chum Bucket. I value it too much to let a nitwit bring it down.
We just start the count over again this coming week, and hope it has another good long run.
Missed this last Chum Bicket session, looking forward to the next.
25 weeks? I think I got some faith in humanity back.
As for the reply: Well, duh. If you get tons of queries every day, you can only take the best. And if you need to clarify that you don't mean to be rude and hurtful, you should step back from the keyboard and think again.
Personally, I'm glad that things like Chum Bucket and Query Shark exist.
Angry Comeback's reply tells us alot about his character in very few words.
Maybe he's not such a bad writer after all...;)
Meanwhile, Ms. Janet Reid is doing a hell of a fine job, both for her clients and the industry as a whole.
How's that for an angry comeback?
Cheers...and Happy Monday!
-T
Reading his comment even made me cranky. Most of the remarks on here already say it best, so, I'll just say this.
I have an agent and I have no other reason to follow your blog other than to use it as an insider's view into the publishing world, what works, what doesn't, and beside, it's just fun and funny! I follow Betsy too, and between the two of you (although she's not posting as much now) you both have offered so much insight, knowledge and wisdom to writers and authors alike.
I'm glad you're here.
Maybe he doesn't appreciate what you do, but I know I do, and many others as well! When an author gets offended that you respect him or her enough to offer a true critique instead of mindless flattery, the author shows not only a glaring lack of desire to improve, but also a desire to be treated as a child instead of respected as an adult and a professional. Not to mention that behavior displays an inability to uphold an agreement, which I'm sure makes all agents excited to sign the author, because it bodes "well" for the ability to uphold a contract.
Thanks for running the Chum Bucket and helping all the authors improve themselves!
Funny. What can you do? It hurts. I haven't queried, and I don't plan to. At least, not for my debut. It's around 150K words, and I figure, if it's good enough, some agent will want to represent me at some point. But I kinda feel like I'm missing out on the whole writer thing by not getting rejections. I'd probably curl up in a corner, sucking my thumb and punching a pillow, but who knows, I might be a jerk, too.
I'm so glad you're sticking with the Chum Bucket, Janet. The vast majority of us really appreciate the personal feedback, especially knowing how busy you are.
I have to say I'm impressed at 25 weeks, that's almost half a year. Maybe this time around we can push it a whole year.
In the words of Capt. Peter Quincy Taggart, "Never give up, never surrender."
I'm glad this isn't the end of Chum Bucket, Janet. While I haven't participated myself (yet), I know how valuable this service is to serious writers. It's sad that one person who doesn't "get it" can spoil things for the majority that do, and I applaud your persistence. May the chum long continue to flow! :D
So sorry that the good run lasted only this far. That streak is still a pretty impressive statistic -- 25!!! -- but very disappointing that it didn't continue further. Human nature, sheesh.
If I were in your shoes, this would have soured the weekend for me. I'm pretty sure you're better-adjusted than I am, though. Thanks so much for doing the Chum Bucket thing at all... and for agreeing to simply reset the counter rather than abandoning the experiment!
Lame, totally lame.
Nope. Never satisfied, not ever!
*ignores Janet's impressively long list of clients & books*
Sounds like transference to me. Likely, the response was meant for a significant other.
Thanks Janet. Early on, third bucket,you responded with one sentence. It changed the way I write, for the better. One of these days.
Janet,
I was fortunate enough to find Chum Bucket just before I began querying, and have to say your honest response to my query thrilled me to no end.
In essence, you said it didn't suck, which gave me the courage to go forth into the queryworld with gusto...because I knew if you didn't hate it I was ready :)
I began querying in earnest the next day, and after five months of rejections I am thrilled to say I've signed with a small press.
Thanks again for the opportunity!
Christi Corbett
Not for nothing, Janet, but the fact that you take the time out to manage a blog PURELY to assist writers breaking into the market shows that you care. I strongly liked the way the responder put "...you sort of confirms..." That was super awesome! Thanks for the blog. Feel free to check out mine at www.jaimiengle.com. Hope to send something your way in the near future...
I just wanted to say how grateful I am that you took the time to read my query and tell me what was wrong with it. You weren't even representing my work, and you still responded -almost immediately - to every email that I sent. It's so rare to find someone knowledgeable willing to honestly tell you what's wrong with your writing, and if my novel is accepted for publication one day it will be largely because of the "eviscerations" you took the time to give me.
Absolutely agree with Richard. What a petulant attitude this writer has (if we can even call him or her a writer at all). I greatly admire agents for dealing with the whiny, the snotty, and the just plain goofy. And very glad to hear Chum Bucket will continue.
"My options for writing now are either to stop altogether or to self-publish my book/s."
I'm amused that this person seems to think this is your fault ... rather than, you know, just because s/he isn't a particularly good writer.
Dear Janet,
Chum Bucket is just one example of the many ways you go above and beyond to help writers - published and not.
It is a grand experiment and I'm glad it will continue.
B.
What everyone else said, plus:
The writer believes his/her only remaining options are to either stop or to self-publish. When was the option of improving one's writing taken off the table?
Though I doubt I'll ever send my query to the bucket (since I don't write a genre you represent) I'm still glad Chum bucket will continue.
I was so sorry to read this. I sent in a query to the Chum Bucket, and your comments gave me an invaluable insight into what was going wrong with it. I'm so sorry, Janet. Especially when it was so generous of you to give up your time and to offer your amazing empathy towards stuggling writers that was behind Chum Bucket. But I guess not everyone sees that.
This person should be grateful you read what they wrote at all. Any feedback can be helpful.
Ah, phooey! I was worried that you'd end the experiment. Thank goodness though that you're still in the mood to continue with it. Maybe someday, I'll have the gumption to submit.
Geez. What would he do the first time one of his books got a bad review?
Wow. That's....there are not enough short crude words for such a temper tantrum.
Thank you for having enough faith (and finding enough value) in the other writers going through the process to not allow the turkeys to get you down.
Like some of your other readers, you don't rep my genre, but I've learned a great deal from you and I GREATLY appreciate you offering, free of charge and to the detriment of your free time and sleep, something that has been so educational to me and others.
Six months and only one crybaby response? Not bad, not bad.
I think you just got a rejection letter, madam. Shake it off and move on. Just like the rest of us. :)
See, my response to this would be:
"Confirm or confirmed would have worked in that sentence, but you used the world confirms, which was wrong. And I do mean to be rude. Jerk."
This is one reason why I am not a literary agent.
Erm, I meant to make that spelling error in my last post. Just to be extra rude. Yeah, that's it...
Ms. Reid,
Not one person has offered either a shot of bourbon or a hug.
So, here's both!
Oops, sorry, my hand slipped.
Kregger
I'll miss the bucket. RIP.
Making "sweeping generalizations about agents" is my job, damn it. I'm calling my union rep. to sick them on whoever has been stepping on my toes.
Dear Janet,
Haven't chumped in the bucket for ages since my species of book doesn't make your sharkly self tingle with anticipation but...I have watched and loved this aspect of you and your good will and whoever the {insert expletive of choice] was that poisoned these waters will die forgotten and unmissed.
Writers will be telling their grandkids about you.
I'm sorry to see it go! I was looking forward to chumming it up again after finishing ms #2. Your advice the first time was invaluable! Thanks for the help and Boo to whoever wrote that passive aggressive piece o' shit email.
Oh, thank Dog. When I saw "It was a good run while it lasted" and then the words "Chum Bucket" I thought Oh noooo! She's pulling the plug on it, wahhh.. But the little critter is still peering out of his red bin and [I've just read through the other comments] I see that the Great Shark Mother has said she'll keep on, so all's right with the world. Here's to beating your 25-bucket record -
Hmmm, he doesn't want to hurt your feelings or be rude? Then emotional blackmail must be his game of choice. "My options for writing now are either to stop altogether or to self-publish…" Subtext, no other agent/publisher will touch him either.
Wonder if he has any idea what a saddo he makes himself come across as?
Sort of like the OSHA Safety Board, "This factory has had XXX number of days without an accident" and then BOOM, some idiot gets caught in the automatic toe-crushing-machine and it is back to square one.
Sigh . . . *gets out turner-thingy*
"Chum Bucket has gone 00 weeks with a passive-aggressive manifesto on the publishing industry."
Terri
And waaaay to many of us had a heart palp when our eyes zoomed right to the phrase,
"That ended Saturday night."
Way to scare us! King couldn't have done any better.
Terri
Just a reminder: the Chum Bucket is NOT ending.
I should have used the word "streak" not "run." This writing thing, getting all the words right, first time, it's HARD!
:))
"This writing thing, getting all the words right, first time, it's HARD!"
I'd be happy if I could get them all right by the fourth or fifth time through...
Shh, everyone.
The first rule of Chum Bucket is you don't talk about Chum Bucket.
I generally lurk, but feel compelled to add my two cents tonight. I am a rejected chum and can honestly say that I came away from the experience feeling quite proud. To be fair, I don't write a genre you normally represent, so my expectations weren't high, but still, I couldn't resist taking a chance with the top shark! I took it as the biggest compliment when you only said that I needed to tighten my query rather than saying that my writing altogether sucked. And I'm serious about that! You are an invaluable source to new and established writers and a downright joy to read. You make me smile on an almost daily basis. For instance...your use of the word vituperative. God, you just make me happy. So thank you for all you do. And I say screw that nasty remoras, he should know who he is messing with.
Your Chum
The Jersey Girl
So did this guy jump the shark? Kick the bucket? Wasn't feeling chummy? Argh! Too many sayings to try and work with!