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If you don’t think they’re doing what is implied why act like they did something wrong?

FWIW, Hercules has never been known in the Marvel universe as anything but straight. We are currently going through Secret Wars, which shows different riffs on different characters; certainly a riff on an alternate Hercules COULD be bisexual as the mythological one. The one of Marvel’s past hasn’t been, so let’s not act like they rewrote their own character.

To clarify, Chris, my opinion is that Marvel didn’t set out to hurt anyone when they made the editorial change, but they should have been more aware of how fans would react to this change before they made it. Then, when they heard the fans lashing out, Alonso and comapny reacted by trivializing the fanbase’s concerns, escalating a misunderstanding into an argument. That latter bit, ultimately, is where Marvel err’d.

what editorial change? hercules in the 616 MU has always been straight and still is. man, marvel cannot win. they change the color or gender of a character, they get shit over it, they keep a character that’s always been straight, straight, and they get shit over that. does every character have to become someone else to what they were, and if not , there’s hell to pay? does every character have to stay the same and if not, there’s hell to pay? alonzo & co. were just as insensitive to fans that were pissed about a female thor as they are to fans that are pissed about not having a bi-hercules. but i guess depending on which side you’re on, you may or may not have a problem with who they’re being jerks to. by the way this “all-new , all-different” nonsense this just that, nonsense. except for spider-man and maybe a few other characters starting from scratch, every character is picking up right where they left off before secret wars and we’re catching up to them eight months later. just a lot of characters being shuffled around onto different teams, settings, etc. this is not a “new52″ type reboot. it’s just the illusion of being an “all-new, all-different” reboot.

Speaking as someone who actually does have a horse in the race, abc, the difference comes down to which group is in a position of power. The mainline Thor whose adventures we will be following is a woman now? Great! Chalk one up for representing women readers searching for more heroes they can relate to. And hey, Odinson’s still out there, so fan’s of the *character* can still follow his brave deeds aplenty, and moreover, look kids! Reprints! Collections and catalogues full of thousands upon thousands of pages all sorts of manly Thor-ness across many a title over many a year!

Meanwhile, who do I, as a bi-male reader have in the Marvel U? Alright, Loki, could be inter — oh, wait. That pretty much just came up in interviews and didn’t really get explored in the title. Also, there’s that whole “trickster” stereotype that causes complications if he’s going to be the only rep for bi pride out there. Okay… Ah! How about that Herc guy? As the author stated, most of the Marvel U version of Hercules’ implied bisexuality was invented in years past on the readers’ part due to his connections to the Hercules of Greek mythology. Enter Pak & Van Lente, who bring this just a little bit into subtext in the book itself very slowly over the course of their run. Cool! Maybe this is something we can run with, right? Oh, and there was that cool alt-universe stuff going on between him and alt-universe Wolverine in that X-Men book that about twelve people read? Hey, in-story precedent! Cool!

But…wait…Mr. Alonso? What’s that? Not even a “Wait and see” or “This isn’t a road we’re going to explore at this time…? Just a…”No, you’re all wrong?” Well, that’s… That’s just… What’s the word for that? Oh yeah, it hurts. Bloody smack in the face the way he said it (and not the fun kind).

Before Secret Wars, I was picking up about a dozen Marvel books a month and a fair share of collected editions, anywhere from $100-$300 worth per. I dropped the monthlies during the big event, while I waited for some other favorite creator-centric runs to wrap up, but after this? Bye, Marvel. Already cancelled pulls of titles I would have been picking up; my money’s already where my mouth is. I’m sure you won’t miss it, but it’s all I can do. Sometimes I love you guys at the House of Ideas, but this is ugly disdain.

Oh man, my grammar is atrocious when I’m angry. Spot an error? I probably already did and am secretly ashamed, weeping at the lack of an “edit” feature.

Thom, seriously, if you’re willing to drop Marvel over this, they won’t miss your dollars. The character has always been depicted as heavily straight, so why should they change it to accommodate a tiny handful of readers? Guarantee you it would piss off a lot more readers than it would please if Marvel decided to go this route. Many would view it as a publicity stunt, since homosexual rights and transgender issues are the hot topic at the moment. Marvel is a business so they’d be more willing to lose their one to two percent of bisexual readers rather than the the 30 to 40 percent(estimate) of the fanbase that would probably not be down with this idea/storyline.

“The character has always been depicted as heavily straight, so why should they change it to accommodate a tiny handful of readers?”

Because there aren’t enough gay and bi characters represented in comics and this one with his already existing historical background would be pretty much perfect.

“Guarantee you it would piss off a lot more readers than it would please if Marvel decided to go this route.”

I’m sure it would. Maybe that would be a good thing. If you really think 30-40% of the readers would have a problem with Hercules being bisexual you have a very low opinion of those people.

“Marvel is a business so they’d be more willing to lose their one to two percent of bisexual readers rather than the the 30 to 40 percent(estimate) of the fanbase that would probably not be down with this idea/storyline.”

Wait… Marvel’s “Hercules” has a “fanbase”? Because, like, as a retailer a see a character that was d-list at best, until Marvel (nearly) literally *forced* “Incredible Hulk” readers to buy his book with a character/title swap that kept the underlying series code in every retailer’s database. Which, as I recall, did nothing but shed readers month-by-month, and held on to the schedule largely because of crossover tie-ins and the spikes they brought. So, maybe profile raised to c-list?

You’d kind of HAVE to do something radical with the character (er, not that bi-sexuality itself is radical, but having sexuality be anything but a prop for a one-dimensional character like Herc, now that would be a radical thing in Marvel comics) to get retailers to order enough copies to be able to launch an ongoing… and succeed. My native order for a non-superstar team on a Herc book would be like maybe 15-20 copies, max? Less than half of what I’d order for the B-List characters, and twice that for the A-List. That way leads to cancellation. If it were the “All-New, All-Bi Herc #1″, dunno, I am in San Francisco so maybe that would move it from C-level to B-level orders for curiosity seekers, but even if I was some place more conservative I’d probably split the difference because there’s nothing inherently commercial about the Marvel version of the character.

(which is why you haven’t had a Herc comic any time lately)

So, yeah, as a retailer, I think the market would very much reject your math — a “controversial” Herc comic would sell better than a “boycotted by partisans” one.

-B

I find the invocation of “power” ironic, since it’s pretty clear who has the power in these situations. Hint – who found a more receptive audience online, the people who complained about making Rawhide Kid gay or the ones complaining about restoring Hercules’ heterosexuality.

And just to be clear, I’m talking about the initial, prepublication reaction. Once they actually saw the all-new, all-gay Rawhide Kid, I would guess the reaction was largely unanimous across all sorts of lines.

Mike