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For the first time since the Silver Age (when there were still many more mainstream publishers) DC & Marvel could go bust as comic publishers and the comic industry would do just fine. Graphic novels, alternative comics and the internet would continue to deliver the goods

For the first time since the Silver Age (when there were still many other mainstream publishers doing well) DC & Marvel could go bust as comic publishers and the industry would survive just fine.

With graphic novels, alternative publishers, the Image Comics partnership model and the internet there is no doubt comics would continue as entertainment and as an art form.

Is there an echo in here. If you so choose delete the first comment.

That industry would be hard to recognize. Most comics shops are operating on slim margins, and losing the weekly churn of spandex floppies would be fatal. Big cities and college towns might each have a single bookstore-style shop that could stay afloat, and maybe megacities would have a few, but that’s it. It’s conceivable that Diamond could downsize enough to keep at it, but doubtful, so any survivors would need to use book-trade distributors (whose returnability terms are not small-press-friendly).

That leaves digital delivery for single issues, and online-ordering for paperbacks. Amazon would control the lion’s share of this business, at both the distributor and retail levels (the same thing, for them). Digital delivery is growing, but it’s still a niche. The disappearance of paper monthlies would push some of that business to digital, but it would push a lot of paper-lovers to trade-waiting. However, Image creators often depend on those monthly sales to pay the rent, because it can take years after starting a project for income from paperback sales to reach them.

So, yes: there would still be an industry, and certainly an art form. But we’d lose more than just Marvel and DC if they imploded.

I tend to think the artform and industry would be in a much healthier place right now if Marvel and DC shut down in the late 70s.

Imagine the work the “class of 84” could have done if they weren’t tethered to mainstream superheroes.

84? 86?
You know what I mean.

My question:

A Multiversity Universe

Or

A Convergence Universe?

“After the DCYou proved to be a bust…” Yeah because they stuck awful creative teams on all the books, talked down to their viewership, infantilized the female characters, generally had mediocre to awful characterization and writing, and generally ignored what their readers actually wanted DC to do, which was create quality storylines with decent characterization for their established characters.

As long as DC keeps prioritizing short-term readers over creating long-term readers and keeping their existent fanbase, we’re going to keep seeing these gimmicks of the year and the majority of the reader base unhappy with the way DC is handling their books.

I wouldn’t mind going back to pre New 52 continuity, especially since they still can’t seem to keep current continuity straight anymore, but it seems like that would be a bad financial decision too, wouldn’t it? Throwing away all the money and energy spent trying to establish this new continuity? We’ll see I guess, but it’s been awhile since Didio and Lee made a decent decision so I’m not expecting much.

As i recall, GL:Rebirth was 6 issues not 8, And that was the first of 2 Rebirths: Flash: Rebirth brought back Barry Allen. Plus we have no clue if Rebirth Will be an event or more of an umbrella for the relaunch, like New 52 or All-new, all-different Marvel.

Bravo Frank Miller, for still finding the time and energy to do stuff for fun.

Does he actually wear a lot of literal hats? If so, what are they? Pictures available?

REally excited to see Taylor work on the GL Corps!

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It’s amazing how people react to a storyline.

The X-Men rumors never made sense. It was always thrown out there that there were rules about not creating new characters when Bendis was doing that consistently in All-New X-Men. So while people have been repeating that “fact” there’s direct evidence it’s not the case in the X-Men comics! Now, we’re getting a miniseries of the worst X-Man which features… drumroll…. an all new X-Man!

Hey Cullen, what about Sixth Gun? Been hanging around waiting for the big finish here!

Saddest thing to me is that if Bunn was not a straight white man then we would have pages of comments about how bad our industry is. But because he is straight white male, just couple of comments barely even addressing the problem.

I now demand a commercial showing a battle between Darrell Hammond and Norm MacDonald to settle just who is the real Colonel! It’ll be Thunder-doming good!

Take the parallel world thing one step further: Team up the DC heroes with Captain Carrot, free the doomed KFC chickens and transport them to Earth C where they can live out their lives as funny animals.

Some comics I see and I immediately go “I’m not the audience for this.” Here it’s the exact opposite.

I think I’d rather read this than Darkseid War.

“I think I’d rather read this than Darkseid War.”

Or the latest relaunch of the Marvel Universe.

I don’t know if anybody else read this thing, but I did, and it was fantastic – lots of fun (even if the Flash’s costume is terrible) and it kind of felt like a book-length Hostess ad.

I dunno. Seeing as Captain America has been, essentially, wearing a KFC bucket around his midriff since WWII, this seems like a lost opportunity…

That was…really too long an exchange of Twitters to digest for an article. I would have found a summary with one or two excerpted tweets more effective.

And, not to ignore the wider problem this article presents but enquiring minds (well, mine) want to know…will Batman ’66 and Sensation will continue to be released digitally, or will they be cancelled as well as the floppy reprints?

DC is still publishing comic books? ;)

Hi John,

Thanks for your comment. I got overzealous with the tweets– didn’t realize how long the conversation was because it seemed much shorter in my head! I’ve parred them down some.

According to solicits, the December issues for these titles will be the final issues for all formats. I will look into this further and clarify if I hear anything to the contrary.

I doubt that the Digital First comics will continue.
The numbers seem to have been calculated from “can we sell enough via digital + paper + graphic novel?”
If those numbers don’t add up to a profit, then it’s not going to continue with just one format.
In the old days, it was “newsstand + direct market + subscriptions”. Many marginal titles had better profits when newsstand copies were omitted (Ka-Zar, Micronauts, Moon Knight).

How well did DC market these new titles?
Why did Ms. Marvel become an overnight sensation, but not Prez?

I see the point TalesOfRacShade is making — I’m one of (I assume) many people who pick stuff up late, or purchase and then read late. I picked up a couple of the relaunched titles in June and didn’t get to reading any of them until Labor Day. (That’s what happens when your to-read pile is taller than the nightstand it sits on.) Now I’m going back to catch up on the ones I liked, but the damage has been done and the books that didn’t show strong interest by August will be canceled. Because most books simply don’t get a fighting chance, they’re often gone by the time their audience finds them.

It’s just the nature of the beast, though. I think it’s more of a general issue with monthly superhero comics and its sales channels than any bad decisions made at DC.

A lot of ground covered here:

Sad to see both Batman ’66 and Sensation Comics go. I bought both occasionally, but they were pretty confused packages.

The Batman book had the trappings of the TV show and good likenesses of the actors involved, but *unlike* the show it was played straight, not camp. So what audience was this for? I assume the nostalgia crowd (and in this day and age, that can’t be a very big crowd), but then it didn’t go all in. Sort of like putting on a production of Grease and taking out the songs. The stories were fine, but without the parody, it ended up being pretty mild (though the Kevin Smith/Ty Templeton mini with the Green Hornet was fun and the Len Wein/Harlan Ellison/Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez special was quite beautiful.)

Sensation Comics had a similar schizophrenic profile. Some of the best, accessible, all-ages Wonder Woman stories in a long time, unfortunately behind covers that often portrayed The Amazon Princess as a crazed warrior splattered with blood. I know covers in comics have a long history of not reflecting the exact contents, but I can’t imagine the audience for either one of those types of books being satisfied with that combination.

It makes me both sad and angry to hear these stories of sexual harassment behind the scenes. Especially when it involves people who are working on characters that are supposed to be heroes — examples of our best ideals, not our worst demons. DC, if this is going on, please get to the bottom of it and root it out. Not only for the sake of your workplace, but for Superman, Wonder Woman and all the other inspiring icons that the world looks up to.

And Torsten, I think Ms. Marvel had the advantage of a lot of media coverage outside of comics *and* being a superhero comic in the Marvel Universe. Prez is on its’ own in its’ own little corner of the world with no capes and tights.

The problem with DC is that they don’t give the smaller books a big marketing push. Although, I did notice that there was some attempt for The Omega Men with it having a big spread in the back pages for a month or two. Hopefully this is the kind of title that does alright in TPB and warrants a new miniseries in the not too distant future.

All of the Digital First titles have had limited lifespans, such as Adventures of Superman and Legends of the Dark Knight. Sensation had 48 digital weekly releases. That’s no small potatoes. After each one wraps up, a new one with a new character comes around the corner. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Flash or GL anthology Digital First series next up to bat.

For the record, Cullen Bunn confirmed on Twitter that “Lost Army” ends with issue six.

@Hardy: Ouch. So Lost Army wasn’t just cancelled; it was stealth cancelled. That must hit hard for the creators, to say nothing of readers who invested in the story.

Yeah, the Omega Men news hit me kind of hard, particularly after having been geared up for a twelve-issue run with a clearly laid out beginning, middle, and end. Add my voice to the choir of being cheated as a reader to be paying money for what will never be more than half a story.

And Alex DeCampi’s remarks just make me sad as a consumer. I loved Sensation Comics for its diverse storytelling, its introducing me to the work of a number of spectacular creators, and its being the iconic Wonder Woman book that I’ve felt had been missing from the stands since Gail Simone’s run on the title ended. (Azzarello and Chiang are a good “alternate” take, but separated from their storytelling, the N52 character is Generic Warrior Woman #49, not Wonder Woman.) Agreed with the poster who lamented the covers never matching the tone. That’s been a real sticking point for me with the book.

Basically, what made Sensation distinct is that between its covers, it was a feminist book. De Campi’s revelations about the Superman office at DC… I sincerely wish I could say I were surprised to hear her statements out loud. And it saddens me. The DiDio / Lee / Harras regime needs to topple. It feels to me like they set this new direction up for failure from the get-go, between the timing, the horrifyingly awful marketing, and now the company’s failure to see through on their own promises to their readers…

Is there any good news to come out of DC? I mean… Batgirl, Black Canary, and Doctor Fate are cool, and they’re still going. There’s that, right…?

Has DC scheduled a Hall H panel for the movies?
All I see is the 8-11PM TV block.

As for the multiple Green Lanterns, it makes sense.
You can switch out actors once they become Rich and Famous.

Torsten,
Not yet, but it’s coming. Like I said, bank on Saturday around 11 am or so.

I can’t see Stewart as Green Lantern. Or doing any acting. He’s just not a good actor.

I’m excited about any Preacher news. I don’t know enough about the actor to know if this was a good choice, but he can look the part, so why not?

It’s not John Stewart of The Daily Show. It’s John Stewart the black Green Lantern, created in the late 1960s by Neal Adams and Denny O’Neil. Common was lobbying for the role a few years ago.

I think it’s great that he got to go out as Green Lantern. Much cooler than being dressed in a suit or tux. But did he ask to be stood up in the corner like that? Ewwwwwwwww.

Thanks for making me cry, again.

well lets see, they have a flash, green arrow, black canary, firestorm, and arsenal. with the atom on deck, and characters like ralph dibney (did I get that last name right?) being mentioned. now they’re teasing a green lantern .heck, throw in hawkman , hawkgirl, martian manhunter, and aquaman, and you have the makings of a tv justice league. I could be wrong but maybe this is the direction they’re heading in. I wonder if somewhere down the road, if these guys will go for the gold and have supes, bats, and wonder woman show up in one of these shows?

[…] Arrow actor discusses the possibility of being Green Lantern […]

Make Dig’s full name John Stewart Diggle and boom, problem solved. Not sure that they could get away with making him an architect in his pre-enlistment life, too, but that really doesn’t matter when both Dig and the actor who portrays him pretty much *are* John Stewart in personality to begin with.

The Beat seems to have more and more of these links-to-other-article-with-commentary in lieu of actual original content.

The architect back-story really isn’t important to the character, and frankly just confuses it. It’s a byproduct of too many cooks, each trying to do something different with the stew.

Likewise, so what if his name is different? It could actually work to their advantage: avoiding the confusion of a superhero who shares a name with a political comedian. A TV show changed the Hulk’s name from Bruce to David without the world shattering.

Fred, it’s not so much as less of original content as MORE from Kyle and Hannah who have taken over the entertainment news segment. If you don’t like these stories, just skip them.

Stewart’s architect background might be difficult to construct for Diggle, but the other aspect of Stewart’s history is his stint in the Marine Corps. From what we’ve seen of the on-screen Diggle, that shouldn’t be a problem at all. And, as Rob J said — John Stewart Diggle, VOILA!!

Seriously? You’re comparing Green Lantern to Iron Man 2, Thor 2 and Captain America 2?

No he’s comparing Green Lantern to Iron Man 2, Thor 2 and Captain America 1. I thought Thor 2 was decent enough though; somewhat inconsequential but well made and with a few fun scenes.

Green Lantern is the nadir, as far as I’m concerned. There were even moments where the editing and lighting were fucked up, it was a disaster. It was like they were trying to cram in a trilogy worth of material into a two hour running time.

I can’t believe Warner Bros made another superhero film with a male lead after that disaster…

Actually, I’m talking about general critical consensus regarding Green Lantern, Iron Man 2, Thor 2, and Kick Ass 2. Less so my opinion, which is that on the whole, they’re all pretty bad films. Though Thor 2 may be the least awful of the four, as I feel at least less actively embarrassed when watching it.

Can Green Lantern really be considered “brighter” superheroics? It’s dour and dark as hell, and Reynolds has none of his usual charm. I can only remember him being pettily angry or sobbing.

Point being, as much as I hate this movie, I can’t blame it for pushing Warner bros towards a dark DCU in general. I blame the would-be-clever fans who ate up those damn often-horrible Nolan Batman movies.

I actually thought Green Lantern wasn’t bad. It’s certainly Warner Brothers applying the Marvel formula into their superhero. I’m glad the author of the post mentioned those marvel movies along with Green Lantern since Green Lantern always gets a bad rap. Thor 2 was highly produced, but really lackluster and towards the end and very forgettable. Iron Man 2 was AMAZINGLY horrible, but those 3 marvel movies mentioned made good money anyway because they were riding hard off of the Marvel brand.

I also didn’t think Green Lantern was as horrible or embarrassing as people make it out to be. It suffered from being what was the third comic book of the summer, with the one immediately preceding it relaunching the X-Men brand, and the too many cooks in the kitchen mentality (which interestingly is working well for them in TV as two of the writers for Green Lantern are ep’s on Arrow) and possibly most damaging a director who seemingly had no connection to the character and source material and was hired based more on the success of his Bond films and less on any real connection with the character.

I think at the very least on these movies, you have to have a director who is passionate with the source material or it becomes a non-starter fairly quickly and you’re going to be in for a box office disappointment.

Also, not being a fan of the Thor movie at all (it took me three viewings to get through it as I fell asleep on my first two attempts) I think it would have been really interesting to see what would have happened that summer if Green Lantern had come out in May and Thor had come out in June. I’m not saying it wouldn’t have had the same results, but I’m not so sure it would have.

Ultimately, the only “review” in Hollywood that matters is cash money:

Iron Man 2: $623 million worldwide (budget of $200 million)
Thor 2: $479 million worldwide (budget of $170 million)
Kick-Ass 2: $63 million worldwide (budget of $28 million)
Green Lantern: $219 million worldwide (budget of $200 million)

You can certainly group those movies together in terms of quality, but in terms of revenue, they destroy Green Lantern.

I actually liked Green Lantern a lot more than most people:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/green-lantern-its-not-all-bad/

But then I never liked Green Lantern in the comics. Aside from the lack of actual conflict the biggest problem with this movie was the journeyman director Martin Campbell, who had no connection to the material — the choice of him to helm the movie shows how disconnected WB was with the whole project.

Plus do not make you main villain a cloud. it never works.

From the interviews I”ve been read over the last couple weeks with the actors and showrunners involved with the picked up fall shows, it would seem that Geoff Johns, at least in part, is acting like the DC Kevin Feige. At least for their TV projects.

Just surprised that there isn’t a Batman film scheduled.

I recently saw Green Lantern thanks to Netflix streaming. Very good show with very impressive CGI that had lighting work which made it look cinema quality in a few episodes. The main love story got a kind of sappy, but that’s okay since it’s supposed to be super-hero melodrama.

Highly recommend both this and Young Justice to anyone looking for super-hero entertainment outside the live action films.

And it really is a shame if they cancelled GL and YJ because it attracted more girl viewers than boy viewers. The storylines skewed way too old for a 30 minute toy commerical aged audience. A new business model should be arranged for these types of shows if they’re not for toys and ads don’t bring home enough bacon.

Perhaps they could do like Disney did with Clone Wars and cut a deal with Netflix to show it there exclusively in exchange for, presumably, a larger cut than they normally get every time someone streams an episode. Then they could reap the final profits on the back end sales of DVD/Blu-ray and Amazon downloads.

In my experience, focus groups are used by companies that want to reduce their risk in trying something new.

However, you need to compose useful questions, because at the end of the exercise, you are going to be interpreting data, and probably reading some alarming verbatim comments from the group members.

The comments need to be interpreted with ‘a grain of salt’, as people get carried away in group settings, responding to group dynamics.

And at the end of it all, someone with some maturity and emotional intelligence will need to make a decision; do we proceed with this project as is, cancel it, or make changes and test it again.

Volthoom was the wizard who gave the original Earth-3 Power Ring his, um, power ring, I believe. That was right off the top off my head, no Google check!

d good call.

via wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_Syndicate_of_America
“Power Ring: the counterpart of Green Lantern. Pre-Crisis, Power Ring gained his magical ring of power from a Tibetan monk named Volthoom, and has powers similar to the Silver Age Green Lantern. Post-Crisis, the original Power Ring (who still got the ring from a Tibetan monk named Volthoom) was an American named Harrolds, but the JLA: Earth 2 hardcover established that the original Power Ring later gave the ring to a young blond man, the counterpart to Kyle Rayner. His ring was inhabited by the spirit of Volthoom who often spoke on his own, making inane observations and taking up residence in the ring wielder’s mind; all of which is considered a curse to the ring’s wielder.”

Ah, now I remember why I dropped reading the pre-52 GL family of titles, b/c of the constant crossovers or building up to the next crossover.

And with that I’m dropping these too…thanks DC!!!

Such great coverage and photography.

Now THAT was a thorough story. Wonderful coverage of the panel.

And thank you for giving photo credits to the photographer. I did con photography for years and, more often than not, the idea of a photo credit gets forgotten. Why, even in the last year, I’ve had three of my con photos swiped by Bleeding Cool for their articles. (Something you’ll never see in THEIR Swipe File column). It seems, for some, it is easier to treat Googled images as “free” clipart rather than asking for permission let alone paying.

Well done, Beat! Always the gold standard!

Glad to see Nocenti and De Matteis are still active (and enviably young looking). They wrote some of my favorite comics of the ’80s — and Nocenti’s Daredevil run (1986-1991) is a treasure that many fans still need to discover.

“Screw letters from emotional fans”, Slott concluded, laughing …

Seriously, I wish more creators would say that. This New Yorker article describes how obsessed fans have not made life pleasant for George R.R. Martin and Neil Gaiman. As the author writes: “The same blogging culture that allows a fantasy writer like Neil Gaiman to foster a sense of intimacy with his readers can also expose an author to relentless scrutiny when they become discontented.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/04/11/110411fa_fact_miller

Nocenti appears to be aging in Marvel Time.

Maybe they should focus on trying to design and make their own characters from scratch that are just as worthwhile instead of lamenting that the classic ones just aren’t as recyclable as they would prefer. Or staying with what classically works. Throw-away versions of cheap characters to comment on Superman or Batman is not the same thing. Its hard to make a Wolverine or a Superman. Or make a batch of great ones like Kirby, Lee and Ditko did. Even in the modern age.

To me, that’s what’s pretty stale about the comic industry. Milking and rebooting the past too much under “new visions” and high price tags. Works for movies with the recent state of special effects and interest but at the 50 year point of expensive print comics with tons of competition for entertainment time, I’m not so sure,

@johnrobiethecat:

These are writers and artists. If they create new characters, they have to convince some (presumably small) publisher to publish them where they won’t make any money. Writing and drawing existing characters is where the money is (unless you’re a really big name).

This makes it seem like one a character reaches iconic status it’s better to leave it alone.
After that people are just stuck cranking out same old same old and hoping they don’t piss anyone off or bore them.

I’m trying to think of a way to say this without sounding harsh to the panelists (not my intention), but it feels like they’re all saying “we’re all hacks, and sometimes that sucks”.

…still came out way more harsh than I wanted…

But how does one justify being the 236th out of 307 writers to re-tread a 40 year old concept?

Every once in a while someone will come around who’s really really good at it, like Miller or Moore in their earlier years, but it still seems disposable and fruitless to me.

I’d have liked to attend that panel–but the perspectives the writers have on the characters might be biased. The psychology of a reader–his identification with the character, his desire to experience a type of fantasy, his need for an attachment–is more important in leading him to buy a series than the composition of the character is. The makeup of a particular character might create more story possibilities than others will, but over years, any character will burn out. A reader who’s attached to a character won’t care about the burnout.

Wonder Woman, for example, has been a problem for writers because she’s much more a symbol than she is a literary character. Readers attach themselves to her because of her power as a symbol, then are disappointed when she fails as a character in a story.

Creating new series characters is difficult mainly because the creator isn’t being asked to design a new literary character. He’s being asked to design something that appeals to fantasies that a few types of readers engage in regularly, without blatantly copying what already exists. That would be difficult for anyone.

SRS

“But how does one justify being the 236th out of 307 writers to re-tread a 40 year old concept?”

These characters have to keep going, for reasons of merchandising and movie, TV and video game deals. I don’t find it very interesting, either — I’d rather see new characters and concepts — but that’s the reality of the business.

I see the points…Its looks like the general plan is lets match different teams on different books and lets see if we can find one that has magic to be a breakout success.. Not sure that a Frank Miller/Janson Daredevil or Claremont-Byrne-Smith X-men type magic is going to happen anytime soon. Everybody is using the same bag of tricks and its getting really old.. I know a lot of these creators are serious, dedicated craftsmen and a comic team is much like a movie team but something like the “Age of Ultron” or “Avengers vs X-Men” is never going to be anything special,. Its just blowing out the fireworks to get sales and more trades via the cheapest tricks available. Maybe they do make money but if i were a professional, I would like to do something more meaningful than a Jean Claude Van Damme type comic with better effects and rich production values.

I saw the trailer for Wolverine. The story doesn’t look like it’ll match the comic series (understandable, its a long story) but there’s enough there to even reference into something interesting. That was a 4 issue mini series (Wolverine’s first btw) by Miller & Claremont than then folded into an awesome 2 issue finish in Claremont/Paul Smith’s X-Men that might have been just as good. That was the sole X-Men book at the time. These things happen(like 30 yrs ago) but there are real long periods in between and the market is so convoluted and byzantine, its better to just stick with the movies for hero entertainment. Who knows where to start in comics…

Adding to that, James Bond movies are doing just fine without James Bond books coming out every couple of years, I can see the same thing happening in comics. The public is satisfied with just the movie output alone.

I’m afraid that for a lot of people these days, superheroes are movie and TV characters — not comic book characters.

Start here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oqjiV6fOn0kC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Myth+of+the+American+Superhero&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oNhYUdbFMO_k4APWi4DACA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Myth%20of%20the%20American%20Superhero&f=false

Or, if you want the basis for most American storytelling:
“A community in a harmonious paradise is threatened by evil; normal institutions fail to contend with this threat; a selfless superhero emerges to renounce temptations and carry out the redemptive task; aided by fate, his decisive victory restores the community to its paradisiacal condition; the superhero then recedes into obscurity.”

(Yes, superheroes are outsiders, each with secrets.)

Iconic? It resonates. Sometimes it reflects and focuses a particular Zeitgeist in society, like “Death Wish”. Or it gives power to a power fantasy, like “The Turner Diaries”. Or it presents an idealistic hero or society, like the militaristic socialism of “Star Trek”. Perhaps each hero is just a literary facade we can wear over our own faces, masking us from society and reality.

Many of the DC offices are in serious flux. While it’s clear they want to have “synergy” between their all mediums, this is a clear example of why they don’t have that. It can be believed that the reason WB green lit a GL film was due in large part to Geoff Johns rebooting of Hal Jordan, that success still paled in comparison to amount of fans who knew and liked John Stewart through the Justice League cartoons.

Instead of using the more visible GL with a public awareness in the millions, DC/ WB went with the GL whose fans number in the hundred thousands. Just on numbers alone, that’s not smart business sense. Couple this with Ryan Reynolds recent comments that more than hint at the lack of direction that plagued the film and it’s easy to see why it didn’t work.

DC has a wealth of good characters and great worlds. Despite that, it seems they people in charge, most of whom are “Hollywood types”, don’t know how to exploit that. And there is a certain amount of irony about “Hollywood types” not being able to exploit comic book properties.

I’d love to see DC state “We did have plans of this nature but due to amazing fan support, we changed them”.

But we know that would never happen because the companies can’t ever look like they listen to us. Then we’ll supposedly have leverage.

What “leaked plans”? Nobody leaked a script. Nobody leaked any art. It was rumor. Anyone can say “I heard it from on high”. You wan’t it to be fact? Name your sources. Otherwise, no one knows anything.

” You want it to be fact? Name your sources. Otherwise, no one knows anything.”

Nonsense. Executives and writers spinning this hard pretty much gives the PR game away. Unless, of course, some readers are just that gullible to believe anything from these guys. You want it to be fiction? Then let DC prove it with some quality comics, for a change.

Is that Kyle’s mask at Johns feet? Bet one way or another they’re killing somebody off. DC doesn’t know anything else.

..not that Marvel does either.

Talk about weasel words. Of course you’ve no plans to kill him off, that’s what DC wanted Fialkov to do. Then changed their minds (again) when they saw what way the wind was blowing.

regarding killing john stewart then changing their minds (if thats the case?)

who cares?

the plan for lost was to kill jack in the pilot, and the plan for homeland was to kill brody in season 1, then in season 2….they didn’t…plans change (for better or for worse is open to debate, but the creative process is what it is)

too much of the hivemind buzz detracts from the actual act of reading the published comics themselves…that’s all that ultimately matters…not the woulda coulda shoulda

the question no one is answering is should john stewart (originally called black lantern btw) immune from death strictly because of the fact that he’s black?….

or does simple nostalgia trump creative opportunities?

@Evan-
Perfect summation.

@Evan-
Perfect summation.

@Gary I think the difference is where the idea comes from. You could ask why the death of Damian Wayne didn’t raise as many pitchforks as the eventual death of John Stewart and I think the reason is that Damian’s death makes sense within the story that Morrison is telling. The order to kill John Stewart came as a last minute modification on an already discussed and approved storyline, it’s maketing at its absolute worst.

@Gary

Was always under the impression that “Black Lantern” was just a name John Stewart jokingly referred to himself as in this panel:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SrpLVI9hs9c/UKMS7gP8bFI/AAAAAAAABoE/5dFR1kO0Pbs/s1600/Black+Lantern+John+Stewart.jpg

Is there some behind-the-scenes thing I don’t know about? Where that name was actually considered?

Yeah @Gary – I’ve been a GL fan for 40 years and that’s the first I heard of a “Black Lantern” reference. Information please.

“does simple nostalgia trump creative opportunities?”

Killing off a character has got to be the laziest “creative opportunity” around. And anyway I don’t see what the big deal is (or was) about killing John Stewart because every single person here knows that they’d kill him and just bring him back six months later.

I spoke/interviewed Neal Adams at NY Comic Con two years ago and he had a very clear memory of the creation of John Stewart and it was NEVER considered that he would be called “Black Lantern.” He and Denny O’Neil both thought it was absurd that the only “back-up” GL on Earth — Guy Gardner — happened to be another white guy. Adams said they told DC’s editors at the time, “You mean to tell me that an alien ring just happens to ONLY find white guys-with-integrity-and-fearlessness. They then went on to create Stewart. Now, it is true that when they introduced him — keep in mind that this was early ’70s that they gave him something of a black-man-with-chip-on-his-shoulder. But, hey, no one’s perfect.
Either way, he was NEVER going to be CALLED “Black Lantern.”

So what will Pete Tomasi be writing next?

I’ve enjoyed what I’ve read from Robert Venditti on X-O Manowar and will check out his work on Green Lantern.

[...] As reported earlier, DC Comics has announced their new lineup for the Green Lantern family of titles and they’re going for new blood.  Geoff Johns was the engine powering that franchise and three out of four writers aren’t just new to the Lanterns, they’re still relatively new to DC.  Here’s the line-up: [...]

Loving Threshold at the moment – so it’s cool to see Larfleeze get his own book (have you read it? It’s SO funny). Wonder if that means Threshold will get a new back-up or become a one-story book…

Those are some average artists in the line up. No superstars like Mahnke. And that attached shot by Tan looks hidious. Its like DC wants it to fail.

Has anybody confirmed with DC that what they refer to as “Larfleeze” in the announcement is a new book, and not just a reference to the continuing Threshold feature?

Well, this was the non story of the day….have to also agree with poster James that Doug Manhke’s replacement Tan is definitely a jumping off point to those art wanks like myself…

Fair play to him, it was never my cup of tea but it is a highly success run that should be applauded.

I always wanted to like Green Lantern growing up but never did. When I first read Rebirth, I officially became a fan. I got lost a little afterwards, but when the New 52 started, I made sure to stay on board. Green Lantern, Corps, and New Guardian are all amazing books. Since Johns does not write the other 2, I still have high hopes someone good will take over. Thanks Geoff for the great years.

Johns nine-year run is something to be celebrated, even if there was a lot that didn’t appeal to me personally. Looking forward, I wonder if DC will try to maintain some continuity with the current group of creators — and have Tomasi and Bedard switch to different books — or pull a 180 and really shake up the line by recruiting a group of new writers. Can Jeff Lemire squeeze one more monthly into his schedule?

Honestly, I’d like to see some new voices get a shot. Creators like Jim Zub, Justin Jordan, Sam Humphries, Marjorie Liu, Joe Keatinge, Brandon Graham, Kathryn Immonen, and Jamal Igle (as a writer — his Molly Danger pages are fantastic) would all be choices that would get me excited about the GL line again. New blood, you know?

Bedard, Tomasi and Milligan are all ending their runs on their respective titles as well.

I read that Lemire would be co writing JL with Johns but i don’t know if that was confirmed.

Johns did some great work but I do think it was time for him to move on. Looking forward to whoever writes Hal next

With Morrison’s Batman run also ending, how about all of DC’s big writers just switch books? Snyder’s going over to Superman already, so Johns could take over Batman, Morrison Green Lantern. They could call the whole endeavor DC NOW! and then… um, never mind. Who’d ever believe such a gimmick?

Yeah, goddamn Marvel Now, curse them for using their quality stable of writers to put out a quality stable of books. What is their problem?

Aside from the fact that this “crossover” (in header alone in all 4(!) series until these 2 issues) was all slow and no go, the WORST part is that DC advertised it contained in these issues: http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/Rise%20of%20the%20Third%20Army.jpg, but are now padding them so it ends in the annuals. Not the main GL title mind you, but the lesser, lamer titles.
Shitty move DC.

I have to agree with RAGGEDT. DC has done a poor job on this ndcu. They already had 2 major Wildstorm characters that are gay and Midnighter and Apollo seem to have taken a back seat in all this so called diversity is claiming to have.
DC introducing Alan Scott does nothing more than to alienate the old loyal fans and cheapen the introduction of a NEW Original Character. This is something that has been lacking in this reboot. We have seen sales as everyone knew would be high to now falling back to the original DCU sales. How long will you go to the well and keep going for the quick money spike and your are left with sales falling even further back.
The so called push for diversity in the ndcu is missing the mark. DC claims it wants it yet your minority titles are the first to go. Again DC plays it up big but fails to deliver. It was the same problem in the old DCU. Major heroes given lackluster stories that bored the fans and art work just thrown in.
Sales will be here to show May’s market will it be a 7% drop or 5 % drop in sales for DC. Will the speculators run out to buy the Watchmen titles and the new gay hero? Will they stay or drift off when they do not have a book that will not make them rich?
Will we see the start of the return to the old DCU if sales keep falling ?

@RJT — There’s a world of difference between an adequate product description and avoiding spoilers. It was and is amazingly obtuse and more than a little misleading.

@arrowshaft You clearly do not read Newsarma. Every retailer agrees that sales are WAY UP and DC revitalized the entire industry.

that was a not every retailer, and you can’t claim doubling 2 to 4 in some cases as a win. Look at the overall sales DC numbers have dropped every month and still has not come to a resting place. Look at the long view and not the speculator’s view.

@arrowshaft I was being sarcastic….

o I sorry

I was trying to say Newsarma is hyped garbage. As are these hyped stunts to sell comics kind of transparent and desperate.

>Will we see the start of the return to the old DCU if sales keep falling ?

Nope. Sales were dropping on the old DCU too. Bringing back the old DCU would just tie their writers’ hands with a lot of baggage, and make their books less enticing to new readers.

Look, it’s still Alan Scott, just like Superman was still Superman, regardless of whether he was written by Jerry Siegel, Elliot S. Maggin, John Byrne, Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison.

The problem with gay superheroes is that it’s much more of a challenge to be fabulous. The straight superheroes are already dressed in colorful outlandish costumes. Standing out would be a bitch.

@goodman There are 52 worlds never say never. Remember things have to get f’d enough to need a crisis. A dare I say New Crisis…… I think we all know were the road leads.

RaggedT,
You have a point on the “no internet in 198o’s” idea…good or bad it kept things secret and more of a mystery. If you read about something it was usually at the exact time it was happening or a few weeks later.

There were a couple of comic mags back then…I forget their names…Comics Monthly maybe? That doesn’t sound right but I had a few of them and thats where I got my “in the know” kind of info…nothing like a breaking story on Watchme # 1 two weeks after issue # 3 hit the direct market…lol.

I guess my biggest problem with all of this is it seems so forced. It feels like DC had no plans on creating a gay character (rebooting an established character or creating a brand new one) and then they sat down one day and said…”hey…Marvel has a half black half hispanic Spiderman now…what can we do now to appear as socially diverse???” Someone in the back of the room raised a hand and said…”we can make a character who has never been a homosexual a homosexual”…

Dramatic pause in the room….then…

YESSSSSS!!! Brilliant…that should keep our name in the press and make us look like we actually care about diversity. Run with it…

It takes no creativity to do what DC has done…If you want to make your newly rebooted DCU Earth 2 Alan Scott gay…fine…but don’t tell everyone you are doing it…let it happen…let the fans react to the book and the storytelling…not the announcement.
Take your time…let the story unfold.

Wouldn’t it have been much cooler to pick up the book and see Alan Scott kiss his boyfriend without knowing it was going to happen? Reaction could go from shock…to awwwww, how sweet…to NO WAY..or whatever.

We’ve been robbed of that part of the story.

And the reason we’ve been robbed is because DC (and Marvel) care more about appearing diverse than being diverse. That’s what all of this is about.

I have but one word that proves my point on this and I’ve gone back to it time and time again….

Oracle.

Where was your diversity when that choic was made DC??

>DC numbers have dropped every month and still has not come to a resting place. Look at the long view and not the speculator’s view

The long view is that comic sales have been trending down for over 60 years. Senate Subcommittee Hearings into Juvenile Delinquency. Television. Computer games. Rising prices. Exile from the newsstand. The Internet. A reboot can only do so much, but it creates a foundation for new readers and new stories.

>I guess my biggest problem with all of this is it seems so forced. It feels like DC had no plans on creating a gay character (rebooting an established character or creating a brand new one) and then they sat down one day and said…”hey…Marvel has a half black half hispanic Spiderman now…what can we do now to appear as socially diverse???” Someone in the back of the room raised a hand and said…”we can make a character who has never been a homosexual a homosexual”…

Or maybe that’s all in your head. Maybe it “seems so forced” because you’re not a writer looking for a way to take characters that peaked 60 years ago, and make them relevant today, leading lives and struggling with issues that people struggle with today. Maybe Robinson’s version of what happened is exactly what happened: “I really believe in this idea of relaunching the Justice Society and making them younger. But I thought it was a shame that we lost Jade and Obsidian, who are Alan Scott’s children. Obsidian has been in the comics for years and was a positive gay character. And then, in the way that one idea can spring forward to the next, I thought, well, let’s make Alan Scott gay.”

Maybe diversity really matters to Robinson. Maybe diversity matters to a lot of writers and other creative people, for reasons you may not understand.

And maybe DC uses marketing like every other company uses marketing- to tell people that they have a product that might interest them, because otherwise people won’t know and may not buy it. How awful and cynical of them.

Todd,
Having read the first issue, how would you have promoted Earth 2?

“What if Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman (and their sidekicks) were the only superheroes to pop up, and what happens when there’s something bigger than they can handle?” is the the first issue. It would be more accurate to describe it as the next generation rising from the ashes of the old. All that hype was about the trinity killing people.

Now I want to see a Wednesday Comics with Kyle doing a GL strip. His Hawkman was fantastic.

These are so cool. Love the colouring.

Looks pretty rough, are these inked?

>> They’ve made a huge investment in their superhero franchises, and with Harry Potter gone, they need another tentpole franchise.>>

Books of Magic!

P.S. I’m glad they are keeping it going. It wasn’t that bad! maybe it will end up being really solid?

Are they really rebooting Batman? I had heard they were just changing the team but continuing the story. A La James Bond. Is that wrong? I wish they’d do it that way. It would be better.

@Kurt Busiek – a Books of Magic movie could be really, really great. Man, I should really reread those books.

I never understood why people were so hot for Campbell on this. So many bloggers took the studio at their PR and cited “Casino Royale” as his only big picture, but guy also directed the first Brosnan Bond flick and both those Zorro movies. That never screamed “space fantasy epic” to me, but what do I know?

We got the same spin after Superman returns.

I can’t believe the theater showing GL was too crowded for that person to xxx his xxxx outside his xxxxx. Must have been the opening Friday.
If I had been given the choice between seeing GL and getting my xxx xxxxxx, I would have chosen the latter.

Would love to see a film starring the Flash, but I don’t want it to become another mess of four or more screenwriters tinkering with one another’s drafts to appease studio meddling.

The basic concept of a man who can move, react and think at super-speed is filled with storytelling possibilities and the character (Barry Allen, Wally West or Jay Garrick) deserves to be handled by people with true creative vision, ideas and talent.

Just more PR spin in the wake of this past weekend’s news that Captain America didn’t totally collapse in its second week.

“To go forward we need to make it a little edgier and darker.”

Yeah, that’ll do it.

Jesus God.

Captain America: 124 minutes of things that Warner Bros doesn’t know how to do.

Agree with Mr. Waid, Marvel/Disney was able to get Thor and Cap made into good-great films, while DC/Warner can only get one good Batman film made every 4 years. How is this hard?

“We had a decent opening so we learned there is an audience,” said Warner Bros. film group President Jeff Robinov”

Fewer people went to see this in it’s opening weekend than Daredevil and Ghost Rider, it was only propped up by 3d ticket prices.

. . . while DC/Warner can only get one good Batman film made every 4 years. How is this hard?

According to a reviewer of the CAPTAIN AMERICA film:

Captain America also proves the point—seemingly simple but oddly difficult for Hollywood producers to retain from one movie to the next—that what makes a film sing isn’t the special effects or the casting or even necessarily the direction: It’s the script, stupid. Good writing is the sine qua non of good narrative filmmaking.

It might be that the people who work on the DC movies are too concerned about appealing to particular groups, which was a problem with the JONAH HEX film. It doesn’t help matters that the DC heroes are very simple characters. It’s much easier to fantasize about being Superman than it is to write a story about Superman which doesn’t generally repeat what was in previous stories.

SRS

“How is this hard?”

Too many suits over-thinking the concept. Jeff Robinov needs to learn the K.I.S.S. theory of making comic book movies.

Man, what is it with green superheroes and less-than-successful movies? Hulk tanked, then they made a remake that . . . slightly less tanked. Green Hornet . . . slightly less than tanked. Now Green Lantern’s tanked, and they’re talking about a remake that will hopefully . . . slightly less tank.

All I’m saying is, if anyone in Hollywood’s got their hands on a Green Arrow project right now, tread carefully! x[)

Thank you Mark Waid. My sentiments exactly. Leave the dark to Batman and instead focus on some super-heroic adventure-y fun.

Kind of makes you appreciate the first two Superman films that much more – aside from the Batman franchises and Swamp Thing, Warners hasn’t been able to deliver their vast catalog to the big screen in any meaningful way in decades.