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I second Miss Snark. I once worked with a very well-intentioned agent with zero experience. She was the wife of a well-known SF author, and was used to rubbing elbows with editors at cons. This made her think she had experience, or at least contacts. She did not. A year later, she had not sold the book, and had only submitted it one place. We parted ways. I'm wiser now, and I have learned much from Miss Snark. First question out of an author's mouth when an agent offers representation should always be, "What have you sold?" This is not an insult to the agent. We're all professionals here (or strive to be). It's just good business.

If an agent is in a large agency, and said agent doesn't handle romance, wouldn't the unromantic agent pass a great romance manuscript to the agent who daydreams of bodice ripper covers?

Or does the first agent simply not read the ms, and pass?

I find it interesting to hear how different agents work. So some agents have a one year contract, others don't. Thanks, Miss Snark, for helping us identify what is a red flag issue and what isn't.

bran raises an interesting question. Are there some manuscripts an agent falls in love with enough to take on that he or she can't get editors to look at?

If I find the one (reputable) agent who thinks my work is the next big thing, and he can't get attention, is that his fault, or is it the work? I mean, can't you twist a few arms? Call in a few favors?

I've seen an agent or two on AgentQuery who had no sales listed, but who I know have made some pretty good sales.

Here's a related question -- If the writer has researched this agent and believes her work to be something that agent would be interested in representing, wouldn't the question of what's been sold already be pretty obvious?

Would an agent who hears "What have you sold" just think a writer has no idea what s/he likes?

Exactly, anon.
Writers should do their research before they submit to an agent, not when an agent has offered for them!
If you have any concerns about an agent at all, don't waste your time (or their time) querying them. Your queries should only be to those you would be happy to be represented by.

So let me get this straight.

An author who could spend half an hour on google instead pays $400 to a guy who knows less than my cat (a sweet animal, but she's not particularly intelligent even for a cat) to call agents and annoy them in order to narrow the agent querying process? When said author could query every agent in the known universe for far less than $400?

Perhaps I misunderstood, as I am wont to do. But if not, this is just so incredibly stupid and scammy I can't even get my mind around it.

Sounds like the guy knows how to find loads of people who will pay good money for a ration of hope, even if it is hope of the false variety.

This is so funny. I always research the agents I am going to query. And the other week I came across this guy's site for the very first time.

I was sure that there was nothing more in his reports than what is in agents websites.

I searched his list for a couple of well known agents I knew of - and there were nothing on them. I smelt a rat - and there was one.

But if I was a new writer - it could have been so easy to get sucked by this man.

Why pay to get info on 6-8 agents when some research of your own can give you many more candidates for far less money. This has scam written all over it. If you are desperate for advice, buy "Writer's Market" for $50 and get over 1000 pages of agent information. Hmmm, what is the better deal here?

The Agent Research & Evaluation blog claims that "agents, even the best ones, are probably placing something like 20% of what they take on."

What I love about it is that even if this guy actually produces six to eight agents who could, in theory, be "perfect" for your project, that's only six to eight agents. Most of us aren't lucky enough to land an agent after sending out fewer than 10 queries. Or, you know. Fewer than 4 dozen.

I'm an agent at a big agency, and this guy is rude, insulting, and deeply uninformed. He's belligerent to both assistants and the few full agents he actually gets on the phone with. And for $20 a month, you can join Publishers Marketplace and get your hands on all the info he's regurgitating. He's a total asshole and this is a total scam.

Oh my god, is this like hiring an agent... to find an agent?!

I think I just heard a small implosion in the space-time continuum.

Anyone who insists in their professional correspondence that their stuff is 'absolutely legitimate' doth protest too much. I don't see the head of Curtis Brown going around banging on about how legitimate they are, do you?

the blog at agentresearch has comments turned off so even if you want to take issue with something they say, you can't.

Interesting.

How is what this guy is doing different from agentquery.com and a writer's own research?

Weird that he is still even in business.

Sadly, I'm guessing the people who probably fall for his scam are the elderly who don't know how to use the Internet and are terrified/unwilling to learn. For people with no knowledge of the Internet, I imagine embarking on agent research is much more difficult and intimidating.

...unless people find this guy via his website, and they think this dude is actually personally referring them as clients to the agents and therefore giving them a better shot. Ugh. Either way, it makes my head feel like a cracked coconut. Recommend an agent who can sell writing like THAT, AR&E!

Tell him in no uncertain terms that he is a bottomfeeder and you are standing by with tartar sauce and a nice Chianti.

($400.00 buys a lot of wine [or Bombay Sapphire] and condiments.)

For $20 you can access Publishers Marketplace for a month, and search all the deals yourself. For free you can google agents, check their web sites, check out agentquery.com, verlakay.com (children's and YA), and absolute write.

Betcha I know more than he does--and I don't even have an agent (yet).

Agentresearch offers the added "service" of a critique of your query letter for ONLY $100!

can you belive these people?

A reputable online class costs a lot less, and you get information from decent people, not scam artistis.

"I recently had a very enlightening conversation with a valued colleague who said she'd rather look at excellent work outside her normal interest area than not-excellent work for the categories she's sold previously."

I've often told aspiring writers to find agents who have sold books within their genre or category, assuming that these agents would have connections with appropriate editors. Was this nitwit advice?

Active agents in Canada? I thought we didn't have literary agents in Canada (or that they were pretty rare). Or maybe the book editor I was talking to was pulling my leg?

I heard this guy speak at a conference I attended three years ago--the data in his handouts was really old (many of the writers on his list had moved on from the agent he had them listed with) and he was pretty obnoxious and full of himself. It was weird, because I knew someone who'd used him a few years before that who thought he was great, and I was sitting there going "what the....?"

MS: "Agents can't be like long lost cousins of lottery winners coming out of the woodwork suddenly when there's money to be had."

Why not?

Dear anonymous,
They don't have to be if you read your contract and understand it. What do we say about contracts - read and understand before signing?

There's that word LOTTERY again...

If I think my agent has not sent to every publisher I think she should, I email her and ask about it, and ask if she'll contact them.

She does.

If you rejections are getting a consistent comment, by all means revise! Use Novel #2 to land a new agent, then tell him/her about #1 (once you've revised) and see if they want to do something with it. Good luck!

The truly annoying thing is when agencies have spelling/grammatical errors on their form rejects. It just adds insult to injury.

I think it is seductive to look for mistakes and rationalize that it is somehow important.
The thing is the sales not the website.

I see the error in "Apperances". But I have stared and stared at "Query Guidelines" and "Recent Work", and just can't find the spelling errors. Am I crazy? Am I blind? Help!

I did mention a mistake in an agency's submission form. They wrote me a lovely rejection note inviting me to resubmit. But they didn't fix the mistake. I'm starting to believe it's a trap to weed out nit-picky authors with pedantic tendencies.
I will not fall into that trap again, thanks to you, Miss Snark.

Sincerely,
Nit-picky, pedantic author with paranoiac tendencies.
;-)

I live in a fairly large city, and I've had the opportunity to read court filings submitted by the best and the brightest, not to mention the most expensive, attorneys practicing in this area. Shockingly, they are almost always riddled with misspellings and grammatical errors. These are the same attorneys who consistantly get the guy with the bloody knife in one hand and the smoking gun in the other, off scott free.

Make of that what you will.

Is the whole starting sentences with verbs thing an attempt to avoid the the first person pronoun? If so, stop it. Stop it right now.

'Cause, yanno, when you start a sentence with a verb, the subject is understood to be 'you,' and you ain't talking about me writing a novel, are you, author?

First Anon - "Recent Work" should be plural. "Query Guidelines" is fine, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Anon, there's no mistake in "Query Guidelines" or "Recent Work." The writer was just using those as examples of the area on the website where the offending "Apperances" appeared (or appered).

Before I flipped out over lack of attention to detail, I'd consider the number of errors. One is probably just a typo that made it through (although I always wonder when I see a prominent one: don't people ever look at their own sites?).

Two or three would be more of a gray area, but I'd look to see whether they're balanced out by really good things (e.g., content that makes me think this person would be great to work with).

Four or more: that's a trend, and it doesn't bode well. I'd skip down to the next entry on my list at that point.

Thanks, anonymous #1. I too stared at those "errors" and even came here to the comments section to see if someone else had the same problem. I guess we're BOTH crazy and blind.

"Work" vs. "works": good point. As long as we're tweaking, "Recently sold works" or "Recently published works" would be even better. This isn't the sort of glaring error that would be a deal-breaker for me, though.

Well, this makes me feel a bit better that there are agents who have mistakes out there too. I sent off a query to an agent last week who has a very common first name that has several common spellings. I swore I checked her name, but nooo...I misspelled it, one letter wrong. Aargh. I feel like the nitwit of the century--and I only hope she's understanding and forgiving!

My take? If an agency is so careless with their OWN website (not a personal weblog as in the case here, but a professional website), then just think of how your work will be treated. If they can't market themselves properly, how can you expect them to market your work with care? Go somewhere else.

And for what it's worth, I've written copy for several corporate websites including text so simple as a sidebar. I bled over every pixel.

Um, this is really anal. Especially the example of "Recent Work". Get over it.

Things like this can be very difficult to overlook. I'm currently looking at a local university's New Media Major (basically, building websites and multimedia stuff) and I was shocked and dismayed when I discovered that the only way to get more information about the program is to download a PDF. An ugly PDF at that. The fact that no one in the program at all could throw together a decent website about the major scares the crap out of me but I'm still thinking about applying.

Even P&E contains errors, aside from those in quotes which belong to the contributors. However, P&E also has several hundred pages so it's inevitable that a few will get through even when the programmer is a good speller.

You have to remember that the agency does not design or maintain their website...someone else does. And, even if they submitted the wording to the designer, and it was all 100% perfect, there can still be mistakes when that wording is pasted into the final site.

The mistake was really very minor...a missing 'e' in 'appearances.' I could see how someone might not even notice it with a cursory glance. OR, and I've had this happen in my own experience, they did notice, informed their designer or host or whatever, and it never got changed.

I would be much more concerned if the agency misspelled their own names or names of their authors. Or had a multitude of very bad spelling all over the place.

All the way to the wilds of Hawaii. My contracts are Fed Exed and I dutifully sign them where the little pastic arrows are stuck. I pretend to read them then I mail them off.
Money then appears miraculously in my bank account.
It is magic.
For a while I thought it was elves and fairies but then I went to New York and met everyone.
They are real people.
How cool is that?

Next question -- do we have to move to Hawaii to write compelling works like "The Lottery" and get the elves and fairies mucking around in our bank accounts?

Isn't it amazing we have to worry about the simple courtesy of saying thank you?

Thank you, Queen Snark.
;)

I have discovered that chocolate and macadamia nuts are never rejected.
One thing I might add.
Do not forget assistants. They are invaluable. Those people who answer the phone? Who take messages? The guys in the mailroom?
These are the cogs in any well-greased literary agents office -- especially a large one.
And mom is right. SAY thank you.
Often.

Oh - darn. I thought the most appropriate way to say thanks was to send 10,000 pages of my old novels that I haven't been able to sell yet to them in hope of the agent breathing them new life. Guess THAT's one thank you package that won't be treasured forever? :p

My long-suffering agent of 11 years is a goddess.

I have sent flowers to say thank you for special sales. (I have done this to thank editors, too.)

She works hard, and I am not the ideal client. Every so often I let her know how much I appreciate her efforts.

But bottom line: this is a business like any other. We get along very well, but always keep things on a professional level.

Mutual respect and a pro 'tude is the best way to go.

I really like my agent, in addition to being happy with her work for me. I've sent her two gifts--one when she had a personal loss in her life, one when one of my books was released that meant a great deal to me. The first gift was a little stuffed bear, the second, flowers.

Both times, I received a sincere thank you--she seemed very happy. I send her a cute card now and then, just to say hi, and I send her thank you cards when each book comes out or when I sign contracts for new books. I never send food or alcohol gifts to agents/editors (I'm all too aware of food allergies from my own life), and I will never send anything huge or unwieldy.

Most of all, though, I make sure she knows I appreciate the work she does and the deals she gets me. I also make sure my editor knows I appreciate her work, and her assistant and the publicist. Not just good business, but good manners--they work hard and it's amazing how little recognition some of them get.

Yasmine

At the point when I was offered a contract, I sent an email to the agent questioning some aspects of the contract, and the last one was "do you prefer chocolate chip cookies, or belgian chocolate?"

He replied, "Chocolate, if you please."

By serendipity, the signed contract and the box of chocolate arrived on the same day, which also happened to be agent's spouse's birthday. And there was much happiness.

(http://www.burdickchocolate.com/ is awesome, btw.)

Saying 'thank you' to ingratiate yourself and manipulate someone is sucking up; saying 'thank you' because you appreciate someone's hard work is just being nice. And niceness is never misplaced.

I have sent my agent AND her assistant gift baskets filled with epicurian snackie goodies. I have also sent them both some pretty wonderful bath and body luxuries from a very high end store. All were appreciated. :)

It's good to know there's an alternative if an agent doesn't bite.

"I know that if you are offered a contract by a publisher, then you can start calling agents and asking for representation." That's true, but you make it sound like you have to have an offer before getting an agent. You can also get an agent and have them look for a publisher.

I don't know any university presses that do fiction, but miss Snark's advice should apply to non-fiction as well provided you sniff out the right agent to ask.

"don't call! don't drop in! don't speak before noon! Include an SASE!"

use a towel not the drapes, now stand on the other leg oh er

speaking of "sprung loinfruit" I slipped on the ice in the driveway and my walk as well as my blogging is a little slow.

Kristin Nelson blogged yesterday on this subject, saying that an author who called her with an offer in hand "handled the whole situation exactly right." Is this another one of those things where every agent has their own preferences? I've seen advice to call agents when you have an offer in several places...?

Yesterday's blog post by Kristin Nelson is relevant to this topic.
http://pubrants.blogspot.com/2007/04/
doing-it-exactly-right.html

I feel like a nitwit...'cause I am.
Thank you so much for posting this. I know first hand not to say "You look tired" to editors. I meant it friendly and non-threatening and I got my face melted off.
I really do appreciate this advice. You would think that it would be easy to make nice converation...I just have one heckuva time doing it. Most of the time I try to hang on a wall and keep my talk-hole closed.
This helps!!! (I'm babbling, I know...sigh)

True Story. When I was at a conference I overheard (in an elevator) "So, what do you think of the literary market?" A certain agent who recently had a proctological run in on this blog responded like a true gentlement. "Ah, it's good." Ding. Fourth floor, lingerie, housewares, holes to crawl in and die.

I've done several of those, including "You look tired." Actually, she did look tired, and I knew she had come in on a very very early flight because I was the one who picked her up at the airport, and this was at the end of the reception.

I think she didn't recognize me.

When I did technical conferences for my research years ago, A POPULAR QUESTION was "What's a Good Restaurant?"

Don't pick any old good restaurant, pick a spectacularly good restaurant that is well known for high quality food, great service and opulent surroundings. Don't pick an Olive Garden, your local steak house, or a hotel lobby eatery.

In Pittsburgh, it's the Grand Concourse at Station Square. You can take the subway or walk from downtown. And I have no fear that you won't like the food. Ask for the River Room.

Figure out your answer in advance. We (my coworkers and I) had visitors come back and rave about the food and service.

That's the way to treat a guest in your city.

Others things to avoid asking:
- How much money can you get me for an advance?
- How about I follow you back to your room and give you the highlights of my 300k opus
- So who is Miss Snark?

Speaking of pitching to agents, what about this situation, if anyone cares to chime in:

I plan to attend an RWA chapter meeting where an agent who has had my full for a year is going to speak. My plan is to give the agent a thank you note for considering the manuscript whether I land a raffled pitch appointment or not. Should I be lucky enough to meet her face to face, though, I also plan on trying to excite her again about the story (I recently submitted a revised version with her permission, and she previously requested a revision).

So, is there anything I should avoid saying/doing so I don’t scare her away? How can I maximize this opportunity? Thanks!

Please people, don't ever tell *anyone* they look tired, unless you are actually trying to be rude and insulting. Even if someone really is tired/ill/depressed/etc., how is it kind or helpful to remind them (not to mention inform them that everyone can tell)? Is that supposed to make them feel better?

If someone looks tired or unhappy or whatever, and you want to be kind and helpful, say "Can I get you some tea? A drink? Chocolate?" It will be much appreciated.

I have a friend who is an actor, and when he goes to autograph shows, he gets overwhelmed by fans. They ask him questions about the shows and films he starred in, etc. It is practically a relief to him to talk with someone who will talk to him about NORMAL things (like the cats that were outside the window).

Because of my actor friend, that's how I treat meeting the agents. I was quite surprised when several of the agents remembered me at a second conference (it was a pity neither took my genre; I would have sent them a query at a later date).

"I've done several of those, including "You look tired." Actually, she did look tired, and I knew she had come in on a very very early flight because I was the one who picked her up at the airport, and this was at the end of the reception."

But the reason this is a bad question is that you (in general, not just you specifically) already know the person is tired; now you're just telling them that they don't look their best either, which nobody in a room full of colleagues likes to hear.

Questions:

a) is it really okay to offer to an agent a drink?

and

b) do they serve alcohol at these things? I don't want to offer someone a drink and then find out I'm not legally able to get them a rum and coke.

yeah, 'cause, "you rejected me but..." seems like a GREAT conversation starter!

Good, freakin' grief.

I'm a writer who is the wrong person for neos to consult and *I* get ALL of those EXACT same wrong questions all the time.

The "you look tired" always inspires an urge to strangle the twit. I was born with that look. Trust that I will always have enough energy to burn a memory of the speaker into my mental twit list with the date and time.

O clueless herd, that's a bad-mannered thing to say to anyone, so belt up and just offer chocolate minus the sympathy-gone-wrong comment!

yes, please, PLEASE don't say "you look tired" to anybody. it's especially insulting if the person you say this to is NOT tired, because you're telling them that looking tired is their natural look. it's painful to be the recipient of that comment.

So "you look horny want to come up to my room and see my etchings and manuscript" doesn't work?...damn must rethink this.

As bad as "you look tired" is, what's worse is what I was asked once: "Are you pregnant?" I wasn't.

So "you look horny, want to come up to my room and see my etchings and manuscript" doesn't work?...

You haven't met ME yet!

I wanna go to conferences with that kind of fun!

Ah, so Miss Snark will be at The Million Dollar Book Contract: How To Get (THE BEST) Agent
Cosponsored with Poets & Writers magazine , Tuesday, April 25, 7pm, eh?

no

Oh goody! I hadn't thought to include a picture of my dogs!

Meeting an agent or editor and establishing a first, brief conversation does make a difference. I attended a conference way-back-when, sat in on a discussion of small presses, and afterward walked up to the guest speaker (editor) to say hi. We ended up chatting for about ten minutes in the hallway. She told me to send her something and to be sure to mention our conversation. I did, and sold my very first piece of short fiction. Of course, she had to like the story and my writing, but who knows, maybe that little talk in the hallway made the difference between her choosing someone else's story or mine.

I've queried different agents at the same agency several times (not all at once, though, and after some time has passed). Is that some big rule I just broke?

I'm so HAPPY.
Obstreperous is one of my very favorite words and I hardly ever hear it from anyone else!!!
You ROCK Miss Snark!

Speaking of favorite words, I am always turned on when someone correctly uses the word MYRIAD! This has got to be one of the most-oft misused words in the English/American language: Yanno, there's such a myriad of ways in which people screw it up...(-;

Who made up the no querying different agents at the same agency rule? I'm glad I didn't come across it when I was looking for an agent last year... I worked my way down a list of agents at a particular agency, and the third agent I queried took me on. Perhaps I just didn't make it past the first two agents' assistants.

I just had my wrist slapped for doing this very thing! I had no idea authors are supposed to inform agents if their work has ever been declined by one of their colleagues. Despite the fact that I did after all bring this to their attention before I sent the full ms per their request, they were still ticked I didn't do it at the outset and told me to hold off. Guess my name is hanging on a dartboard in their break room now....I give up any hope for representation there. But....why didn't they list this rule on their website with other submission guidelines? Or am I the only writer who didn't think of this? Guess I was wearing my nitwit t-shirt that day. Sigh.

I love your way of squaring up your karmic load!

Saw Lady
www.SawLady.com/blog

I don't share your fascination for George, nor do I really daydream about any celebrities at all, but last night I dreamed I was on holiday at some cottage-style resort and Clooney was there. He was coming on to me, and all I could think of was how to redirect him your way.

Can't have my own fantasies, oh no. I have to dream on someone else's behalf.

That's funny. Last night I dreamt that Miss Snark and George were coming over for dinner. Must have been something about the moon last night.

I love you. :-)

In a friendly, non-threatening, and completely platonic way, of course.

Weird: Last night I dreamt I was in a tsunami - do you think that portends momentous things for the Snark one and her beloved?

How do I get to your alternate universe? I could use a few 36 hour days ...

One of the very few times I disagree with Miss Snark--I would suggest talking to the agent about this--offer a very short exclusive or else let her know you're continuing to submit elsewhere. (She should have requested an exclusive if she wanted one, but I'll bet she took for granted it was an exclusive since one of her clients referred you and she's already given you some writing help.) If she's helped you with those early chapters, and that makes other agents even more interested when you submit them, it's like helping you has been detrimental to her, because someone else can scoop her now.

Communicate. Ask her how quickly she expects to get back to you and if it's a reasonable time frame, w/i 2 or 3 weeks, I'd recommend granting it. Sounds like she's very interested. On the other hand, I've done revisions for early chapters but told the author it would take me a while to read the rest so he was free to continue to query. Only the agent knows how invested and enthusiastic she is about your work (is she just doing that as a favor to her client or because she's really excited about your work for its own merit?) so ask her if she expects you to hold off on querying others and for how long.

-Rachel Vater

This is too good. While I was reading it I put the diet coke to the far left just to prepare myself for the first line of the response. I knew it was coming.

complete horseshit!!!!!

Methinks that this agent is shrouded in a cloud of really bad gas.

Miss Snark is quite right about who picks up the tab, the editor. As my agent told me, "That's to soften the blow of rejection, at least I get a free lunch out the deal."

Hey, you all are missing the point. This author has a real problem, here.

Author, I'd recommend doing a couple of things, and Miss Snark, please let us know if I'm off base.

Ask your agent if he means he has received no response whatsoever or no *positive* response. He may be trying to shield you from negative rejections. (You've probably already done this.)

Also, contact other clients of your agent, those who have book deals, and ask about your agent's ways. Maybe they can shed some light on this odd behavior.

Miss Snark, is it possible this agent is losing it? Claiming to have received no response whatsoever from editors sounds...nuts.

Author, if I were you, I'd be polishing up my querying skills. You may need to jump to another agent.

Question which I am having a hard time being answered: What IS a typical response time for publishers for a book on submission? It has been two months and my agent said she has received positive vibes but no offer. Any input from you guys? I'm starting to go crazy. Thanks!

ssssssucka!

the agent sounds like a lame liar.

Miss Snark said: "And agents don't take editors to lunch. I can count on one claw the times I've picked up the check or issued an invite. Editors ask us to lunch and pick up the tab."


Really? I would love it if you would explain this process a little more in a post sometime. I was totally under the impression that the agents took the editors to lunch. Basically that they would call up the editor and say, "Hey, we should do lucnh." Then they go out to lunch and the agent pitches a book they are particularly excited about, etc.

Why would the editor take you to lunch? It seems like it would be the agent's playing field.

I think that is very interesting.

Maprilynne

Anon # 3 said: Hey, you all are missing the point. This author has a real problem, here.


This person does have a real problem, and I didn't miss the point at all. This really is horseshit and the writer needs to confront this agent and get some answers. We only have a broad view of the entire situation, but if we base our advice on the facts given the agent is leaving out some crucial facts because I've never known an editor who didn't want to give a reply. Even if you work with them for years and they "love" you to death, they don't hesitate to tell you when they aren't interested...with solid reasons why.

When you discussed representation, did your agent tell you he would send copies of rejections? Some agents do, some don't. But I would ask if he has letters you could have copies of so you can see what they dislike about your work. (Most are generic turndowns, but still it would be nice to see where it's been.)

Also, in addition to the real possibilities that "anonymous" listed above, one thing to consider is that the agent is going through personal difficulties and is lying to cover for them.

I've known people who were going through a bout of clinical depression, for example, and lied about doing work that never got done. It's possible that the agent hasn't actually been sending the MS out or meeting with these agents.

Thanks for the responses. Lordy.

The agent says that the editors are having it read "in-house," although he's been telling me that since September.

It hasn't been rejected; I ask for updates every month or two and have pointed confirmed with him that there has been no response whatsoever.

I've been in touch with one of his other clients, who had his first novel sold to a small press; the MS went out to about a dozen (I think?) places, one at a time, and sold after about a year.

--Author

Why one at a time?

"I've been in touch with one of his other clients, who had his first novel sold to a small press; the MS went out to about a dozen (I think?) places, one at a time, and sold after about a year."

One at a time? Sending out submissions is not a case of serial monogamy. An agent can't hold an auction if there aren't multiple editors bidding for the project and there's certainly no motivation for an editor to offer a pre-empt if there are no other competitors for the work.

Granted, there are some houses that don't want simultaneous submissions (even from an agent), but that's because they don't want to get into a bidding war or offer a higher than usual advance -- both of which are GOOD for the AUTHOR.

It seems you have more than one thing to be concerned about here.

Author: You said your agent has another client whose MS went out to editors, one at a time?? That seems horrifyingly slow to me.

My agent has my novel out to 10 editors right now. She has a list of, oh, 30, that she has shared with me. Every time a rejection comes in, she calls another one on the list.

Miss Snark: How many editors do you query at once? What's the industry norm?

Do you agree that this author might want to jump ship at this point?

The editor takes the agent to lunch because believe it or not, it's the agent that has control here....the editor doesn't want to miss out on a great product. Also, but getting to know each other, the agent will think of that editor when he/she gets a manuscript that for instance is a cozy mystery about knitting, and that editor mentioned she'd love to find a cozy mystery about knitting. That kind of thing happens all the time.

:)

"Don't ever talk about your novel to anyone socially until it's published. Ever.

Man oh man, oh man. Another perfect Snark Raving Truth.

Yes. Preach it, sister.

Hold on...are we calling this guy an editor, an agent, or both? Isn't "simultaneous submission" a no-no, if he's being queried as an editor?

Brings to mind Ruth Schwartz "All is Vanity."

And what's this business with agents being nice???

"Don't ever talk about your novel socially until it's published. Ever."

Damn, wish I'd heard this before.

Could someone explain this rule against discussing the novel socially before it's published? I'd appreciate it.

Don't ever talk about your novel socially until it's published. Ever.

In general I'm in complete agreement with Miss Snark, but I'm not sure I buy this one for a number of reasons, some of which may be genre specific.

I'm an F&SF author, and making the rounds of cons and talking about your work in progress is a big part of career development.

I wrote full time for a while before selling a novel. If I hadn't talked about the novels I was writing I'd have had an awfully hard time explaining what I did during those years.

Much of my social circle is now made up of professional and aspiring novelists and English professors. Talking about unpublished novels is a huge part of the normal conversation. It was not always this way, but developed in part because of a willingness on my part to both talk about my work and to welcome other writers into my life.

My life wouldn't be nearly as rich if I hadn't always been willing to talk about my writing. Further, those aspiring novelist connections really helped me get through some rough times on the way to publication.

On the other hand, I don't think I talked about my first novel socially before it was finished, and that I would highly recommend because a lot of novel are never finished.

"Here is a bonus clue cause clues come in threes today: don't ever talk about your novel to anyone socially until it's published. Ever."

I'm having that tatooed on my forehead.

This editor hasn't gotten back to you in 8 months. It's his way of giving you a very nice "no." He's hoping you'll sell it elsewhere in the meantime. It's awkward because you know him socially, so he feels weird sending you a rejection slip. Just consider it a no and move on.

Anon 2 - That confused me as well. Also, if someone told me he was an editor who occasionally did editing, my gut reaction would be to think that he's not particularly good at agenting or editing... or he would have chosen one over the other at some point. Red flags all over this one, novelist!

I agree that "don't talk about your novel socially until it's published" is very fine advice. I need to modify this for my husband: Don't bring up wife's (messy, unfinished) novel at parties and boast about its brilliance, then go to grab a beer, leaving wife to answer all questions about decidedly unbrilliant novel.

"Don't ever talk about your novel socially until it's published. Ever."

I've tried to obey this rule. But my loving husband told his mother before I could stop him, so now every time we talk, she asks about it. She also sends me magazine clippings of ads for vanity presses.

Miss Snark, you have a lot of great info here, but this is far and away the best clue you've ever delivered. Or at least my favorite: "Here is a bonus clue cause clues come in threes today: don't ever talk about your novel to anyone socially until it's published. Ever."

Any chance you could get the flipside out to the masses? I.e., that one should never ask about a writer's unpublished novel. If I felt at all capable of discussing stories over coffee I'd probably be an agent. Or better, a screenwriter.

I don't understand the reasoning behind not discussing an unpublished novel socially. I can understand not mischaracterizing yourself, and not mentioning a "not-ready-to-submit" work to someone who is in the industry. But unless I don't want to talk about it, why wouldn't I mention it?

To the original poster: Miss Snark has said this time and again, and it bears repeating: Query wide. Query often. Query again. Don't stop querying. Etc. It's terrific advice!

The sooner you prepare a few other query letters (along with a few pages) and get them out the door, the quicker your anxiety about this guy will dissipate. He's just one guy. The wider you cast your net, the more likely you are to snag an agent. Keep writing too. Take a deep breath, don't be angry at his lazy ass, and do something to be positive and proactive about the situation. Continue to write. Continue to query. And good luck!

Thank you so much, Miss Snark, for the best advice ever.

My opinions on why you shouldn't talk about your novel socially until it's published, for those who want reasons:

1. It's annoying.

2. It makes it that much more disappointing and embarrassing if you don't ever get it published.

3. Because every clueless wannabe constantly does this, and you don't want people to confuse you with clueless wannabes. Seriously, it's right up there with people who say, "I never read books, because I don't want to subconciously copy another writer's style!"

4. If people really cared to know what you were writing about, they'd buy your books. But you don't have books for them to buy. So... hush. Just please, for the love of God, quit telling me all about the book that you're working on, or that you might write, or that you're thinking about maybe writing some day. I don't care. Go home and write. Put your keyboard where you mouth is.

Well, I'm still not getting it (why not to talk about one's unpublished novel), so I think the only thing to do is ask Miss Snark directly. I get that it's annoying to have people ask about it if it's become a hopeless cause, but I'm not sure that's what MS meant. Here I go to ask her.

yet it's ok for you agents to take a frigging year to reply.

Anon,
the situation Miss Snark is describing is after a writer has leaped tall buildings, etc., to arrive at a state of representation. You know what that takes, since you are obviously laboring in the fields of attempted representation.
It's a lot of frigging work to get there!!
Once you've achieved/earned that lofty status where your work has been recognized by at least one person and vetted, the air is rarified and very, very familiar. Agents and editors actually speak with one another, which is why you'd like to be attached to such a group. On the other hand, they actually speak with one another about clients.
Would you actually want to screw it up by being an idiot and burning bridges by pulling a dumbass move like this? There are certain protocols and basic courtesies that apply, one major one of which is to formally sever your relationship with your previous agent prior to looking for new representation. If you do not, and if you get caught, well, let's just say you'll get the representation you so justly deserve.

*I was 3/4 of the way through this post when my laptop wigged out on me. So my apologies if this is a double posting.*

This has to do with editors rather than agents, but I had a reminder the other day of just how small the publishing world really is. My wonderful fabulous agent has submitted my book to six equally wonderful and fabulous editors so, like any newbie author, I Googled the hell out of their names gleaning tidbits of information. Lo and behold I found a website with a photo album that featured three of these six agents all partying together.

It does, however, make me wonder if the next time they all decide to gather and get sloshed they will discuss how they all got this total piece of sh*& manuscript the other day.

Of course, maybe they'll make the winner of the auction buy the losers a drink.:)

But really, everyone knows everyone in the publishing world.

Maprilynne

A year to reply, leading you on about send me the next manuscript and I will work with you and then four months go by and no response, no email, complete and utter silence. Look at your contract and end the damn deal and move on.
Writers have to stop living out lives according to the silences of people we never even met!!!

"yet it's ok for you agents to take a frigging year to reply."

No one says you have to stop submitting, or wait on a single agent.

Yo, anon -

It's a business relationship, and an exclusive one. Once you are *represented*, you're in for the whole dance until you end that relationship. And yes, the exclusivity is only one-way. That's because you don't write enough for *you* to live on, let alone an agent to live on 15% of.

The agent is taking you on as a client because she believes you have long-term potential to build a career that you *can* live on. (Potential, not to say it usually happens.)

If you're querying around when you're supposed to be exclusive, then that marks you as someone who doesn't care about their word given to their partners. Why would a new agent take that on?

(I too have had computer problems today, so sorry if this is a repeat comment.)

Imagine the following: you're a woman being flirted with by an attractive man - when suddenly a friend of yours comes up and says, 'Why are you flirting with my boyfriend?' And it turns out that this man has been dating your friend for some time ... but he wasn't quite happy with her. Not wanting to risk being single, he decided to proposition other women behind her back until he found someone else willing to go ou with him.

Would you go out with this man?

No agent will want to take on a writer they can't trust to go behind their backs. If you terminate your relationship with your agent, you'll be taking the risk of finding yourself agentless, but that's the gamble: you might find a better agent, you might not. You don't have to take the gamble if you're not comfortable with it. But you have to be honest. It's not fair to two-time your agent like that, especially as you say she's 'doing her job'.

If you really feel that she and your next book are a bad match, polish up your tact and discuss it with her. You might be able to work something out. But whatever you do, tell the truth: your sins can find you out in publishing very quickly, and you'll have to live down any mistakes you make for a long time.

I second Miss Snark on severing with the first before signing with the second--it's a Business Thing. You're only as good as your word, so it is not the done thing to get a bad rep for non-professional behavior.

I was in the process of severing my first agent when I met with the person who would become my present agent. From the start I was upfront about untangling from the other person and gave a timetable on when I expected things to be resolved. Only THEN would we shake hands for our own partnership. She understood perfectly, waited, things wroked out, and the last ten years have been profitable for us both.

Anon, I'm one of those sticklers who believes you shouldn't even be talking to another agent about your situation until you've severed ties with the first.

While you're lining your ducks in a row, your first agent is still scrambling (like any decent agent does, since they have to make a living) to try and sell your manuscript.

If she'd managed at the last moment to sell something, would you have stayed, or left? (that sale would have stayed with the agent who made the sale)

I'm getting the feeling after speaking to a number of agents that they are able to "sniff out" potential, and try to work it, help the writer grow into it. Meanwhile, developing writer is in a rush to be the latest Page Six entry.

I heard basically the same story from a couple of agents, they were the dumped. After that experience, they were less inclined to be as charitable, to take on writers who were "almost there" and to offer constructive criticism.

One agent called them the "user class" of writer.

Gives the rest of us a bad name and limits our chances. I therefore target newer agents who are probably less experienced, but at the same time less apt to be burned by assholes looking for a back to climb up.

Get that list out, or make one up: legitimate agents you feel suit your writing. Then query them at least five at a time.

When one comes back, send out another two. And keep at it until you've interested an agent, or determined that this particular piece of writing is better suited to staying in a box under your bed.

Digression: Most email programs have a template/stationery function. Why don't agents just hit the Reply button for a query they're not interested in, hit another button to insert the template/stationery form rejection, then hit Send? (Or, if this is too technologically challenging, just type it out into a notepad program, shortcut ot to the desktop, and drag to the Reply?) Is there just too much email to bother?

I've sent partials and fulls through the USPS using their green "Delivery Confirmation" tags. It doesn't cost much, can be tracked via telephone or online, and the agent doesn't have to sign anything.

If it's a matter of ensuring that the manuscript arrives there, send it with Delivery Confirmation. It costs about sixty cents and the post office puts a bar-code scanner on the package. The postman scans it upon delivery, and you can track it online.

The beauty of this is that it doesn't require the recipient to sign for it (which keeps you from irritating the agent), while letting you know that the manuscript got as far as the agent's office. What happens after that is up to God and the agent.

If USPS doesn't work for you at all, have you thought of UPS? I think that their basic delivery service doesn't including signing for it, but check that out first before you try it.

I recommend going with USPS for two reasons:

1. It's the standard.
2. Your timely is someone else's never arrives.

What I mean is this: Where I live, FedEx is crap. The delivery folk are rude, if you even get to see them, and careless. They leave valuable packages on apartment doorsteps, without knocking, without notification. Said packages often get stolen. Trust me. I know firsthand. Often, delivery is late.

USPS are always prompt here and never lose my packages, shipping or receiving. The same for UPS, adding that those folks are really friendly.

But I have friends in other places whose experiences are directly opposite to mine!

These things vary by region and sometimes sheer luck. Don't overthink it. Just use the standard.

When one of our children was six weeks old I felt the need to get out of the house, breathe some air and get a bite.

The waitress drops off our menu and says, "Oh, my, what a pretty baby."

I say, "Thank you." She leaves, returning in a few minutes with coffee and water.

"She really is a pretty baby," the waitress repeats, to which we again say thanks.

She gives us a few minutes to decide. We give her our order. I've decided on a later afternoon breakfast. I like breakfast food.

She nods and takes it all down. Then our waitress says, "She (meaning our baby) doesn't look much like you."

I say, "Well, no. She's adopted. She was born in India."

"Oh!" our waitress exclaims. Her eyebrows rise, and you see the light in her attic come on. "Oh, I was wondering how two people like you could have a pretty baby like that!

Then there was the nice present from a friend. He and his wife drove in clear from Seattle. It's a long way, and we enjoyed the visit. He is a photographer. He brought his camera and shot five rolls of film and gave it to us as their present.

We took the film to a photo developer at the mall. The clerk coos at the baby. We hand over the film. Understand that this person saw our baby. She commented how pretty she was and remarked as many did how very black her eyes were. They are a deep brown now, but when she was a baby they were black.

We pick up the photos. In the photos dark blue pants are grey, a reddish area carpet has turned an indecipherable, washed-out colour ... and my baby is white!

So, we return the photos. I'm still carrying our daughter. I say, "The colours are all wrong. This carpet should be reddish, these pants are dark blue ...."

"Well," the clerk says, "If I fix the colours, your baby will be dark."

You do remember that this woman has already seen my daughter, and my daughter is now kicking her feet and smiling and cooing at the clerk? Okay. So, I say, "Well, look at her. She is dark! I want her to look just like this."

"Oh, Oh. I can do that!"

So she did. ...

Okay, one more story. We eat out. Babies are in high chairs. Adults are talking. Waitress puts hot coffee in front of baby who promptly pulls it over on self. I'm feeling as if I were a neglectful parent, even though this happened while I'm shouting at the waitress, "NO! no! don't do that."

We run off to the hospital. The doctor fixes baby up, and says, "Come back in two weeks." He gives us an ointment. It works wonderfully, but we go back.

The nurse asks us to remove her clothes. We do. So, here's my little happy doll laying on her back and kicking her feet and laughing at her dad. Another nurse enters. She screams, "Oh my GOD! This baby has turned BLUE!"

"What?!" I exclaim.

Husband calmly says, "There's nothing wrong with her. We're only here for a follow up."

Nurse says, "OH MY GOD! But look at her! She's turned DARK!"

Husband calmly says, "It's okay. Really it is. She is dark. She was made that way."

We're blond. We're blue eyed. This daughter is a Bengali girl with black hair (reddish in the sun) and dark brown eyes.

There are more stories, but this is a very long post. Thupp! at those who don't like my baby stories!

Regardless, I loved your story, Princess. I'm baby-crazy and looking into transracial adoption too.

Dear Kimber,

We've adopted twice from India from International Mission of Hope. The last time we went through Americans for International Adoption. We think they're wonderful! They have a web site, but you will want to talk to them in person. There are many excellent agencies out there. Check out any agency ten ways though.

We also liked WACAP (they have a web site too) though their staff has changed since our first adoption, and I don't know how they are now.

We love children and would have dozens if we could take care of them. ... I think that's why I give my Pixies lots and lots of babies in my pixie stories.

I have heard good things about an agency called "Alternatives in Motion," but I have no first-hand experience with them.

Divine blessings on you and any adotion.

I had a similar occurence with kids and a saavy, old security guard.

Where I worked sponsoired a high school science bowl. We were all assembling in the theater area for the awards when a Coworker's kids (all three adopted - Korean, Indian and Vietnamese - sat on a on a bench-like wall, talking like kids and waiting.

An old security came over to me and said "Whose kids are those? and I pointed to their adopted father - a redheaded irish with pale white complexion and freckles.

He looked at me and smiled (I smiled back). I said, "They're all his." He laughed and smiled and never said another word. Good guy.

I'd go with the USPS for queries, partials, full ms and so on to an agent.

But if a requested manuscript has to get somewhere reliably and on time ... I would NOT recommend the USPS.

UPS and Fedex are likely to deliver reliably to business offices in downtown NYC.

More important, they will not deliver Priority Mail three weeks to a month later. The USPS does.

How can people be so stupid????

Be proud of your brown baby.

Oh, that is a cute story about the children, and if I remember correctly, it's true and it really happened one day when Brad Pitt was walking with his children in the park! Bahhhwaaahhahahah!

sha'el--I love your baby stories too, and think you could write a memoir on the adoption and people's perceptions of you daughter.

I love your baby stories. I'd love to read more! I'm sorry you have to deal with such ignorant people. :(

Not to hijack, but as the parent of an adopted (and different race) child, I loved those stories.

And, if you are interested in adoption, please check out domestic adoption.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox. Anyone who needs info can contact me through my blog.

I can't resist one more story. We're visiting family in Seattle, and shopping. Shoes. Cute shoes. At Nordstroms.

My brother-in-law is holding one of our daughters. A clerk approaches and says, "What a pretty baby ... and she looks just like you."

My brother-in-law grins crookedly and points to Husband and says, "Well, actually, she's his."

So the clerk sizes up Husband and says, "Well, she really looks like you." Husband's eyes twinkle as he says, "Not really. She's adopted."

It was too much fun. I still laugh at that one.

Something else that happens to both of our Indian-born daughters is that Spanish-speaking people often mistake them for Hispanics and speak Spanish to them. Indians always know they are from India, however. And often they know from where in India.

I live in Chicago, where the mail is terrible. Terrible, terrible, terrible. I will not send anything important through the U.S. mail, nor do I want to receive anything important that way. I can't wait two months for my carrier to decide to deliver a check to me. Delivery confirmation is useless if the carrier forgets to leave the slip or the package. It bothers me that an agent might hold FedEx against me, when really, for those of who live here, FedEx is survival.

I don't know if this is still done, but before e-queries it was common to enclose a self-addressed post card along with the SASE when sending a requested full or partial. When the ms arrived at the agency they would send the post card letting you know they'd received it in tact.

"It's hard out here for a pimp?" LOL. Miss Snark, what do you know about that? LOL.

Loved that story at the end, by the way! :*)

"I'm don't really remember anymore," replies the dad "Once they're yours you kind of forget how they got here".

Except that every mother remembers the moment she met her child. Each father, too.

"If it's a matter of ensuring that the manuscript arrives there, send it with Delivery Confirmation."

Ah, my favorite method of delivery on April 15 and at every quarter. The IRS doesn't think I'm that special either, but I don't care.

When the ms arrived at the agency they would send the post card letting you know they'd received it in tact.


Ha, I knew something was wrong with the world, that must be it, we no longer have tact...

is that joke supposed to be funny?

Whoa. What's this? "I know enough not to send simultanious queries." And Miss Snark replies 30-45 days? What am I missing?

Of course you should send simultanious queries. Or does this example only refer to a specific case with two agents within the same agency?

This is such a hot topic right now, and one I feel strongly about. I wrote about you and this very subject on my blog just the other day. Tonight I closed shop for a while, but I'm tempted to reopen just to write some more. Actually, I'm more than tempted. Lord help me not to fly off the handle.

Equally troubling - 3 fulls out for about 6 weeks. A call from an agent for representation. After much discussion, I tell the agent I am interested and will cll her back within a week. I email the other two agents and tell them I have an agent who wants to rep. my work. Could they just tell me if they are still interested or what is the status. No answer after a week. What to you think?

If you're a publisher and you do this, same dealio.

Miss Snark says:If someone can't bother to reply to an email in 45 days, fuck em.

I say: Dog bless you, Miss Snark. You are a whiff of lavender scent in an otherwise shitty kitty litter box.

O Divine Miss S--

Thank you for arguing so eloquently the case for good manners. Fuck rude people!

Well, without the unneeded profanity, I'd just say, include your own time frame in your query.

The agent's policy is "I can't be bothered to reply if I'm not interested."

So you politely state, "Since your policy is not to respond unless you are interested, I will take a lack of reply by (insert date) to mean you have declined this project. Thank you for your attention."

Notice, you aren't even assuming he can be bothered to read your email header and count 30 days.

Depends on who you want. If you stop patronizing agents who take forever to respond, they'll speed it up. If you stop patronizing publishers....well, ooops. I forgot. It's their playground, so they make the rules.
Bottom line. Be organized, be consistent. There's more than enough excellent agents in the world to go round. You don't need some self-absorbed vunderkind.

Well this is good to know.

As for simultaneous queries, most agents just want to know who else is looking at it. This is what I've learned so far.

So today I'll go through my big black book and put a red X beside the ones I haven't heard back from in, oh, eight months!

quote: "Whoa. What's this? "I know enough not to send simultanious queries." And Miss Snark replies 30-45 days? What am I missing?"

I think the writer was referring to sending queries to agents at the same agency.

Brava! You can say that. Poor aspiring author's can't. We're stuck trying to be polite, not nag, follow the rules (don't call the agency, send an email).

I keep a spreadsheet of submissions, and it's depressing to see how many un-highlighted entries I have, which means I've heard nothing. Yes, I write them off and move on. But there's always that, "did you really get it?" question nagging in the back of my head.

I've had a requested full with one agency since last AUGUST. Have followed up with 3 polite emails. Not a single reply (and yes, I called the agency to see if she still worked there--she does).

I'd love to see if any agents reading your blog respond with their reason for behaving that way.

I have a feeling that some of the agents who are accepting e-mail queries are getting snowed under. It's a lot easier to lose an e-mail than a regular old letter.
For the past few weeks I've been sending snail mail queries, and I've had almost an 80% return. On e-mail, it was more like 50%. I also think that policy of "if we want it you'll hear from us" is a "cya" policy in case they lose something.

Just recently Lori Perkins asked: If I've had a query letter for months, should I bother to respond or do you just assume that you've been rejected already and get pissed off that I held on to it for so long and then rejected you?

I no longer send e-mail queries. Another writer in my critique group sent out a number of queries to agents, and used the same cover letter for all the agents. The exact same letter. With one agent's name and address, etc., details of the agency.
Dumb. Very dumb. But easy to do. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens a lot. Check your e-mails before you send them. Or if you're like me, use the mail.

Another thing that sucks is when someone gives a tentative yes to attending a workshop with the promise of getting back to you within the week. After six weeks, you e-mail a friendly nudge. No response. Another 2 weeks, finally a "I'm so sorry! I meant to write back sooner that I won't be able to make it after all!" Two months have passed and your workshop is in two months. To invite another speaker at this late stage makes it look like s/he is a last resort.
Not cool.

In this case it was necessary to invite one person at a time. I would've preferred a flat out 'no.'

If there's a next time, I sure as hell won't wait more than two weeks to get an answer.

Agents who blog have consistently said that their slush pile is way down their list of priorities.
Like, even below the blog.
There are so many agents out there, and the ones who are the least responsive are the ones who get the most: most of the notoriety on blogs, or conferences, or other forms of self-promotion. SELF-PROMOTION. They are busy because you've made them so busy, so try another route.
Get out a writer's guide and go through the entries. Google some of these people. You'd be amazed at how many really famous and successful authors are represented by agents you've never heard of! They're flying right under your radar. They don't need new business, but if something wonderful comes along it might be tough to pass up. They're established. Not starting out and building businesses.
These people are busy, but maybe not inundated with the tons of promotion-induced submissions.

After no response from an e-query (2 months), I re-queried the same agent stating in my cover letter that perhaps I had been stuck in a spam filter. A few days later, I got a request for a partial.
I believe that some e-queries become casualties of spam filters.

Never mind query letters not getting a response. A few days ago my son came in from school carrying a large envelope addressed to me in my own handwriting. Inside was a full manuscript I'd sent out per request of the agent TWO YEARS AGO!
Despite a few emails to the agent about status, no answer. I finally just gave up. Inside the return SASE (envelope - with some extra stamps) was a letter saying no thanks. You think I hung my hopes on that agent?

What is it with agents who request material right away, and then take forever to get back?

I had a fairly quick response on both my query and partial from a very well-know agent. The agent requested the full and I was ecstatic. But now, it's been ten months. Ten months! This is worse than when I was waiting for college acceptances twenty years ago. At least I knew then when the response would come.

I've still been querying, but I'd rather focus on my writing rather than marketing. Also, no other full requests. I would so love to pull it back!

Thank you! I've had the experience where 3 agents simply did not respond. Maybe this book will make it. Maybe it won't and I'll have to write another and start the process over.

But I know that I will be crossing off ALL agents that say they will only reply if interested.

If you say only snail mail - and I send email - then you absolutely can ignore it. But if you accept emails - you need to hit the reply button.

Maybe as more writers become frustrated by this practice - those agents will get their wish and have MUCH LESS EMAIL - ie - much less material to represent.

To quote Dave Barry, wouldn't "Arrogant Asswipes" be a great name for a band? --gk

I've had this happen a lot.

Testify, Miss Snark! I recently queried an agent through _snailmail_ who said NOT to include an SASE and that she'll contact me if she's interested. Yeah, why'd I send her anything? LOL.

I'm still waiting on a (paper) query that I sent out on Dec 20, making it a good 75 days of limbo. I've got several other people at that agency on my list, and I'm about ready to send to one of them. This agent may be kind of old, but his website and many listings say that he's still in business, still takes on new clients, and still accepts queries. He might be an established big shot but I think after 3 months, I shouldn't have to remind him that I am young and hungry and have a book to sell.

Hey, I thought Miss Snark said:

You don't have to inform anyone it's a multiple submission at the query stage (UNLESS the agency website specifically says you do). We assume you're querying widely.

Miss Snark may be arrogant, but never an asswipe. Sages are not asswipes; they know enough to avoid the excrement.

Wow. I found your blog a few months ago – seems to me you’d be equally at ease saying what you mean “in person” or “on blog”.
I like that.

I appreciate what you wrote - as it’s just common courtesy to give an answer – even simply a yes or no – especially as the recipient of a query email knows how very much that answer matters to the sender.


And- as for simultaneous submissions- I think in this case the reference is to simultaneously submitting to more than one agent in an agency, which I think is “frowned upon”.

bjh said... Miss Snark may be arrogant, but never an asswipe.

What in dog's name makes you think Miss Snark is arrogant? Let me see ... could it be that she's here every day, suffering nitwits? Could it be the COMS she runs for us twice a year? Could it be the way she's taught us everything there is to know about the publishing business? Her sense of humor? Her kindness? Oh, I know! It must be that she answers her damn query letters.

Here's a url to an online dictionary. Make it your friend.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

The agent who said not to include a SASE was saving you money and herself time so she can work for her clients.

Yours was a snail-mail query but regarding email - some agents aren't that good at it, spam filters get in the way, etc. Not everyone is as savvy as Miss Snark. Writers have to toughen up and consider this method like you do a lottery. If the writing is great and you've written a book that is sellable in today's market, you will hear back. Not all agents are right for all books. Move on and keep writing (and reading and taking classes, join a crit group).

I wonder if agents realize that many writers fear their eQueries are lost in cyber-space when they don't receive a reply. As a result, these writers query again.

I have put the agencies that can't be bothered to reply at the BOTTOM of my agent list.

I understand that my queries are unsolicited. I get that the agents are busy, even overwhelmed. I'm okay with waiting patiently for a few months for an answer. But not to respond at all is so frustrating. (All the agency has to do is hire a temp for a few hours each quarter to stuff SASE's or hit reply and cut-and-paste email responses.)

Plus, the IRS expects writers to have documentation that we are pursuing publication, and this will be a tad difficult if rejection slips become a thing of the past.

I think we writers have to take a middle ground here. Of course it is unprofessional not to reply, and it doesn't take much to do it.

On the other hand, these agents are in business, and if their business methods weren't working, they'd change. I am ignoring submission methods or the existence/lack of a web site as I develop and prioritize my list of target agents. But once I get to the stage of sending out the first 10-20 queries to the agents I have put near the top, things like a lack of response to queries will be one additional factor I consider. I don't see any devidence to suggest that agents that do this are not good agents, so I would be stupid to eliminate them solely on this basis.

We can certainly have strong opinions on agents and professionalism, and we can try to lean towards those agents that conduct themselves the way we feel is appropriate in this regard. But in most cases, using lack of web site, lack of email queries, lack of email response, and other similar attributes as a litmus test is not a luxury new writers can afford.

I'm one of those agents who only responds to e-queries if I'm interested. If you want an answer, shell out the 78 cents. If you don't care, send an e-mail. Seems pretty clear.

I used to respond to every e-query, and you know what? Over half of the authors I rejected wrote back to argue with me. If I sent a personalized letter, they argued with my comments. If I sent a form letter, they argued with my form letter. This is why I don't respond - because I don't want to start a conversation with authors I'm not interested in representing. I would think, that as aspiring authors, once you get an agent, you want that agent to spend their time on selling your project, not eloquently rejecting others.

After no response from an e-query (2 months), I re-queried the same agent stating in my cover letter that perhaps I had been stuck in a spam filter. A few days later, I got a request for a partial.
I believe that some e-queries become casualties of spam filters.

More likely, your original email slipped below the threshold of the screen the first time, and when you re-queried, the agent took the graceful 'out' you'd supplied him/her with. That's a nice way for everyone to be happy.

Kimber An said...

"I wonder if agents realize that many writers fear their eQueries are lost in cyber-space when they don't receive a reply. As a result, these writers query again."

The ones who decide they don't have to reply to e-queries simply just don't care. This is not the wonderful Lori Perkins or Miss Snark, but there are a few out there. And if you do re-query, even innocently, be prepared to receive the worst, brutal rejection you've ever had in your life...without mentioning any names, of course.

Thank you thank you thank you. I know agents are busy, but common courtesy must apply at some point. I made it a practice not to query agents with this policy. And in answer to the inevitable question, yes, I do now have an agent, one I'm very happy with.

Regarding the comments of the anonymous agent who wrote that the reaosn he/she no longer acknowledges rejections via email because-
"Over half of the authors I rejected wrote back to argue with me. If I sent a personalized letter, they argued with my comments. If I sent a form letter, they argued with my form letter. This is why I don't respond - because I don't want to start a conversation with authors I'm not interested in representing" -

I wouldn't like that either,if I were in your shoes. Common courtesy travels both ways - and this is rude behavior.

Someone said:
I'm one of those agents who only responds to e-queries if I'm interested. If you want an answer, shell out the 78 cents. If you don't care, send an e-mail. Seems pretty clear.


This is why I've given up the equery route and gone back to paper. Too easy for an agent to ignore; too easy to be accidentally deleted before read; too easy to spend a nano-second rather than the ten seconds a paper query would garner.

This is my career. I will spring for the 78 cents!

"Anonymous said...
I'm one of those agents who only responds to e-queries if I'm interested. If you want an answer, shell out the 78 cents. If you don't care, send an e-mail. Seems pretty clear.

I used to respond to every e-query, and you know what? Over half of the authors I rejected wrote back to argue with me. If I sent a personalized letter, they argued with my comments. If I sent a form letter, they argued with my form letter. This is why I don't respond - because I don't want to start a conversation with authors I'm not interested in representing. I would think, that as aspiring authors, once you get an agent, you want that agent to spend their time on selling your project, not eloquently rejecting others."

Oh, buck up and get over it. All you have to do is delete the annoying responses from disgruntled writers with a simple click. No one sane can fault you for that, and you are not obligated to communicate with any fool who can't take rejection, and you know it. And for the many who probably DID take your advice to heart, and thanked you silently for the response and the comments, you will always be remembered as the agent who gave that good advice...not the asshole who never bothered to reply at all.

A simple rejection, even a form, is all that's required. Most of us don't want to become your pen pal.

To the anonymous posting agent that doesn't respond to e-queries unless he's interested-

Do you state that in your submission guidelines? Because if you did, I would be absolutely fine with that. If, however, you solicit queries via email and don't respond with even a form rejection, well, I must agree on that being simply rude.

Thank you to the agent who took the time to comment here. This board benefits from agents participating. I understand how responding can lead to twice the amount of time spent on a rejection.

Writers who work hard to get an agent should appreciate that these agents are busy representing them, not acting as teachers for the multitudes of clueless wannabes. I'm not talking about people here, who have the sense to do their research and read Snark, but the vast majority of the slush pile out there.

Southern Writer - Thank you so much for telling me there are such things as dictionaries! Golly! What will they think of next!

I was responding to Miss Snark's comment that she doesn't need help portraying herself as an arrogant asswipe, which I didn't take seriously. I apologize if I offended anyone.

Another agent who doesn't respond to email queries chiming in here.

I list everywhere I can that you won't get a response from me unless you send a query by post along with an SASE. If you have to send it by email then I'll accommodate you and look at it, but I don't think this courtesy extends to a response as well.

You see, through experience I've discovered that when I reject an email query (whether personally or by form), this creates an easy link for the writer to ask for a more detailed explanation for a rejection or proceed to argue with me about my decision.

"All you have to do is delete the annoying responses from disgruntled writers with a simple click." Easier said than done my friend. Perhaps some people can easily cast off an insulting comment, but I've found that I get annoyed for at least a minute or two before moving on (and I'm thicker-skinned than many of my colleagues). And yes, this is time I could be spending working with other writers.

There are a lot of people out there who have to have the last word, and sadly email queries are a perfect medium for them.

For me the bottom line seems very simple...

It comes down to common courtesy and professionalism. If an agent can't even bother to send a form rejection letter [or doesn't want to open that line of communication] than an agent shouldn't accept e-mail queries! Most writers work years on their books-even going so far as to love their books like they would a child. So hitting reply and simply saying "no thanks" is the only decent thing to do.

p.s. Miss Snark, you truly are the snarkiest. Thank you for all you do.

bjh - I'm sorry! I realized that after I hit the send button. Of course, by then, it was too late. Consider me properly shamed. I was all riled up yesterday. Someone ought to take my keyboard away from me when I'm like that. My sincerest apologies.

Agents and publishers who ask for no simultaneous submissions need to maintain effective response times. If they ignore responding within a promised time, then we get to ignore promised exclusive submissions.

I'm still shopping a novel that's had a verbal offer on it because the contract hasn't been sent.

Last year I had three verbal offers that fell through so now I don't believe a word anyone says until it's written down and signed (altho I will 'pretend' I do, quite effectively on the phone). After all, if a publisher can't get a contract out how good are they going to be at getting a WHOLE novel out???

Thank you for this, Anon agent.

"All you have to do is delete the annoying responses from disgruntled writers with a simple click." Easier said than done my friend. Perhaps some people can easily cast off an insulting comment, but I've found that I get annoyed for at least a minute or two before moving on (and I'm thicker-skinned than many of my colleagues). And yes, this is time I could be spending working with other writers."


I guess from years of experience as a writer my skin is so thick there's not much anyone could say for me to give a rejection a second thought, or to bother with sending a mean reply. While I can't apologize for all the unprofessional moron writers who have sent you vicious replies and don't know how to handle rejection, I can say I think your comment may have been the best on this thread so far. It's shows us that not replying to an e-query isn't always based on arrogance. (I promise you, this isn't one of those have to have the last word "things" either :)

Southern Writer - Now I feel guilty about becoming snitty. (I'd say snarky, but I can't aspire to those heights.) Thanks for replying.

Miss Snark and Killer Yap rule!

Thank you.

bjh - I love the word snitty. And twit, too, which was just what I was being. Thanks for your forgiveness. Good on you.

Here's a twist: Sent an equery to an agent - nada, so wrote them off. Followed up with a second equery 6 months later just to be sure and still nothing.

Then a full year later, sent a snail + sample to the agent and they asked to see the full.

What are the chances of that?

The agent will still work with this writer to arrange contracts with the publisher and that sort of stuff that writers aren't necessarily naturally good at, correct?

Depends on the advance. If it's $1500. or thereabouts (what some perfectly legitimate publishers offer) it might be hard to get the agent to look. This might be something you'd want to pay a literary atty an hourly or flat rate to look over.
And if you're thinking it's a good way to ease onto an agent's list, forget it. Would be a one-shot deal.

Does publisher own foreign & film rights too? If not, agent could have an interest in repping those

I had a similar situation with my first novel (small press acceptance while uber-agent considered a full). I weighed my options and went with the small press (big mistake, but another story), and contacted the agent to propose a similar arrangement.

His response? My manuscript pages tossed in a SAS padded mailing bag and stuffed into my mailbox.

FWIW.

FWIW, my agent took me on though my current WIPs were already in contract. She is the type who reps authors, not individual books, which I would expect of any "uber" agent. I hope to repay her faith by giving her a fantastic next book to sell so she can make some money out of the arrangement. IOW, if uber agent likes your work, could you not sign with him/her to represent future contracts since this small press one is a done deal?

Best of luck with this.

... and if the agent refers you to published authors, don't forget to check that they really are published, by non-vanity presses.

I have a list of standard questions you're supposed to ask a potential agent, but what questions do you ask their clients if you reach that point in your investigation?

I would ask if the agent does what they say they will; if they're communicative; if they send my money on time; if they've made the best possible deals; if they've offered good career advice; if they've taken any heat from the publisher during the process, thereby allowing me to remain cordial with my editor.

There are lots of questions. Just don't be nosy (personal). Be professional. This is a business relationship you thinking of entering into, not a sorority. You want a strong advocate with good business skills and good reputation.

Time in the business is a good thing, too. A lot of friends have rued having a younger, unmarried agent (male or female)who suddenly needed to either make more money or decided to concentrate on family. Good to know that if such a circumstance comes up, who's going to catch you? Does the agency automatically pick you up, or are you out in the cold? (My friends were out in the cold, with the rest of the slush. Not pretty, especially with a simultaneous orphan book situation with the editor involved. Total suckage.)

Thanks to Anonymous for the insightful questions and advice.

Thanks, anonymous, for your response.

"What happens to me if you leave the agency?" was on my list of questions for the agent. Maybe I should I expand that to "Excuse me, but what are your reproductive plans?" and "Have you considered a tubal ligation for the convenience of your clients?" Nosy and personal, yes, but also relevant to the professional relationship...

My agent was pregnant when I signed with her. It did not stop her from doing her job. Nor has having a small child. I think she took maybe two weeks off in all.

I am cool with your advice except on one point:

WHO THE HELL IS THOMAS PYNCHON?

I know you don't usually comment on comments, but if you see this...please answer. More than once I have queried an agent I've researched only to be passed on to a different agent at their agency. Suddenly I know nothing about the agent who is reading my stuff. Right now, at this moment, I have one of those agents that got my manuscript handed off to them talking about representation. I've asked who she's repped, but she's building a list and none of the stuff she's worked on (not sure if she means line editing or sold?) is out yet. But she is with this big reputable agency and she seems to get my writing...So???? Now what?

Ouch. Poor secretary.

The main reason, other than the fact that a) if you lack social skills, it becomes painfully obvious on the phone, and b) desperation tends to lower the social skill quotient in the best of us, is purely practical.

Editors don't buy writers, they buy books. Writers always think their books are good, and they're not all correct, so reading them is the only way to tell whether they're worth buying. And you can't read a book over the telephone. Therefore, any cold call conversation is going to be entirely useless. All it'll tell the editor is that they're speaking to someone who wants to get published - and they could have worked that out just as easily if the person sent in their manuscript.

Unless, of course, someone tries to read their manuscript down the phone, which is just bizarre.

Calling an editor to ask a ten-second question about their submissions policy does no harm if you're polite, but calling them to talk them into buying a book is ineffective from the writer's point of view, time-wasting and uncomfortable from the editor's.

It amazes me that with the amount of information out there for writers that people still make these mistakes. Whatever books these people are getting your numbers from must also have a chapter about the rules of ettiquette for this particular business, unless they are just looking up 'literary agents' in the phone book. You're not taking out ads in the yellow pages, are you?

O, I hate when editors get like that. I often wait for my editor outside her office. I jump out from behind telephone booths and yell GOTCHA! She doesn't mind. I mean she doesn't laugh with me...not on the outside. But I can tell she's cracking up INSIDE. She's even invented cute pet names for our encounters like STRANGE and CREEPY. Question. What exactly is a restraining order? Sounds technical.

My guess is the guy was having his secretary make these calls before writing the novel. I mean, no sense wasting time writing without a deal on the other end.

Thanks Kit, for your nice explanation. When I receive these sorts of cold calls, I usually just tell the caller, "I can't tell if you're a good writer by the sound of your voice."

I often ask the writers who 'phone in their submissions what they're reading. Many of them have told me that they don't read. And a good chunk of those tell me that they don't read because they want to make sure that their work is completely original. Ack.

Part of me wonders if people do these cold calls as a means of "building relationships", because "it's all about who you know". But it's about the product. Books aren't fungible, and that's what makes publishing different from producing paper towels.

I can't stress enough that aspiring authors should get involved in the community of which they want to be a part. Join critique groups, read the trade mags, review books for the trade mags, send pieces to lit magazines, read said magazines, attend events, read even more, write even more...people will get to know to know your name, and eventually, you.

I called an editor once, to get clarification on a submission requirement (specific to his house) and I was so terrified he would ask for my name or in some other way identify me and then black list any manuscript from me as a result that I could barely manage to spit out my question over the phone. If I had had access to one of those voice modification devices I would have used it.

It amazes me that with the amount of information out there for writers that people still make these mistakes.

This presupposes that most people are willing to put in the time and effort needed to seek out this information. I don't find that to be the case.

And this guy seems a couple more steps removed from the research process than most, since he had his secretary doing cold calls. If she got the agent info through a Google search, which seems likely, she probably figured out fairly quickly that agents don't work this way. But secretaries are routinely handed tasks and told, "Make it happen." Is that task unreasonable, unprofessional, or even impossible? Irrelevant.

On Secretary Day, these gals (and guys) should get diamonds and compact cars, not greeting cards. At the very least, Hallmark should acknowledge reality with something that reads, "You're underpaid and you work for an [BLEEP], but at least the benefits are decent."

Think of the good karma points you could have scored if you'd saved that poor assistant by telling her to put nitwit on the phone to set him straight.
I realize it's not something you'd really want to waste your time with, but that poor, poor assistant.
Won't somebody think of the assistants!?

A "restraining order" is a legally sanctioned demand that you maintain a distance of no more than 3 feet (the length of a dog leash) from your editor or agent or other beloved individual, thereby ensuring that you are "restrained" in their company so that such STRANGE and CREEPY encounters can occur with more satisfying frequency.

I like to think this is ignorance of protocol. I guess most executives are used to passing on the orders, and the job getting done.

It must come as a shock when they learn they have to submit work. But come to think of it, they probably have their secretaries do that, too.

I got a phone call from a guy who sounded like he was maybe 130 years old. He was calling from Bleak House's hometown and he asked if I'd be interested in taking a look at his science fiction novel that he had recently completed.

I told him that (a) we don't do science fiction, and (b) we don't take phone calls like his. He reminded me that he was from our hometown, as though that were the magic elixir to make all things better and that, having been handed that fact, I should have gotten out my contract signing pen.

He became even more agitated when I told him that didn't hold much sway either.

I have so far managed to avoid his further wrath, though I sometimes have visions of him showing up with his Civil War issue musket in a final attempt to persuade me into publishing his book.

Oh boy, the 'I don't read because I don't want other writers contaminating my originality' theory.

There's a grain of truth in it, of course. Other writers do contaminate your originality. Usually they contaminate it with such foreign concepts as competent prose.

Not reading and trying to write is like trying to raise a child by locking him in a sealed chamber. His opinions will undoubtedly be original, but they won't necessarily be sound.

I have so far managed to avoid his further wrath, though I sometimes have visions of him showing up with his Civil War issue musket in a final attempt to persuade me into publishing his book.

Heh. Okay, NOW I see the significance of the home town reference--it was a subtle way of saying, "I not only known where you work, I can get there in 20 minutes..."

My guess is the guy was having his secretary make these calls before writing the novel. I mean, no sense wasting time writing without a deal on the other end.

I am certain you are right. Part of my day job is to support upper managers in a big company. On the one hand, it irks me no end that they rely on their assistants for literally everything. On the other hand, it means I get to deal with the assistants instead of the managers, and about 99% of them are the nicest people you'd ever want to meet.

And, I'm sure this nitwit was going to have his secretary write the novel as well... if agents were interested in it.

I pity the assistant. If Miranda Priestly tells you to call the pope and arrange for dinner during your weekend in Rome, you pretty much have to either (a) make the calls using a pseudonym or (b) spend all day pretending to make the calls and make up fake notes.

I'd have told the boss that after calling 30 agents, they all told me the best place to go was Publish America.

And look for a differnet job. :)

After a merger, my Division (about 12 people) relocated their offices to the same hallway. I used to listen to 6, 8 or ten phones ring one after another until mine rang. It was one of the bosses looking for a live body to do useless crap. After two frustrating weeks, he bought everyone pagers and cell phones so they couldn't hide.

I feel sorry for that assistant/secretary.

I don't even call my agent. If I have a question/problem, I e-mail her. That way she can get to me when she has a minute.

9 months? A few days ago a received a large envelope with my manuscript I sent to the agent three years ago....three years. The letter apologized for the delay. If an agent doesn't respond, doesn't even reply to your emails, then, by diggidy, move on.

You're allowed to query other people while you're waiting. She's not the only gopher on the prairies.

See my previous response re: SASE.
Be glad it wasn't a hammer.

I do think nine months is too long for a form rejection letter. Why did they bother to send it at all? There's got to be a workable system for these things, even for the over-swamped.

Whatever. You don't want this agent to represent you.

I once got a form rejection letter a YEAR after the query. Please. Did they think I was even waiting at that point? I know some agents are swamped and I know thet queries are usually at the bottom of the list. So, what is considered a reasonable time frame for a query. I've been assuming an auto rejection after 3-4 months.

If an agent is too swamped to read a manuscript they've requested, you obviously don't want them to represent you. Run like the wind and find someone better.

Let the outrage go. Odds are, it won't be the only rejection you get: just about everyone has to go through a lot of 'no's before getting a 'yes'. If you get angry enough to be writing letters every time things don't go your way, you'll just get an ulcer.

Yes, you had a frustrating time with this one. I sympathise. But it's just part of the game, and it does good to no one, and harm to you, to get outraged about it. Just tell yourself that you were unlucky with this one, and get back on the horse.

I would bet a hundred letters were sent out on the same day as yours. Somebody got way too behind and had to clear her desk. And away went the stack of manuscripts.

By the way, I'm still waiting to hear back from the Paris Review about a story I sent them. It's been two years. Do you think it's safe to send it someplace else?

You should be glad that the agent didn't accept you. That's not the type of character you want pushing your characters.

To be fair, sometimes things get in the way and an agent who might be a good match has a massive pile up. Things like new babies, illness, a death in the family might cause a backlog in submissions while the agent deals with life events and just the existing clients and business.

It could happen. I've seen it happen to busy professionals in other fields.

But, speaking for my own interests, I wouldn't put this slowpoke to the top of my list for submissions, either.

Though I disagree with Miss Snark with eyes averted and with the most humble prostration of my unworthiness, I think nine months for a response is not a matter of being busy, it's a matter of being negligent. I agree with the other comments. You're better off without this clown.

I once had a small publishing house sit on a manuscript for which they had requested an exclusive for two years. I won't name them here, but my fantasy is to be published and sit on a panel of writers where I can steer fledgling authors away from them.

According to my notes, I sent my short story "Sparky and the Dipthong" to C. Michael Curtiss at The Atlantic Monthly on July 22, 1985 and still haven't heard back. I am starting to think these people are disorganized. I will give them another two months, then fire off the huffy letter I've been composing in my head since early '94.

As I read this letter, I see more than the author's final question, which is all Miss Snark answered.

I see an agent who read a promising query, quickly requested the full manuscript, then waited nine months to say, "...you have come to us at a time when we are inundated with requests for assistance and representation..." as if the writer sent the manuscript, unsolicited, at a bad time. But, in fact, it was sent only after the agent requested that the author send it.

That's what would bug me.

I hate it when agents reject fulls with a form. It's lazy, self-important, and derogatory, and it's a practice that has few (if any) parallels elsewhere in the business world.

At least there's closure.

"To be fair, sometimes things get in the way and an agent who might be a good match has a massive pile up. Things like new babies, illness, a death in the family might cause a backlog in submissions while the agent deals with life events and just the existing clients and business."

Are you telling me agents are allowed to have private lives? The nerve!

To quote MS: "Exclusives suck."

And apparently, you gave this agent one without her even asking for it. I gotta wonder why you weren't sending your manuscript out to others during this time? The best thing that would have happened was you might have gotten more than one agent interested in your stuff.

And the worst thing? Nine months lost of valuable submission time. Egad...

Re:

I see an agent who read a promising query, quickly requested the full manuscript, then waited nine months to say, "...you have come to us at a time when we are inundated with requests for assistance and representation..." as if the writer sent the manuscript, unsolicited, at a bad time. But, in fact, it was sent only after the agent requested that the author send it.

Exactly. This is why I have to side with the writer. At least scribble a note on the bottom of the letter saying something to the effect of "I know I asked for this...sorry." Whether or not the writer was "sitting around" waiting for a response has nothing to do with it. The agent was excited enough about the material to ask for a full. What happened in the meantime?

This kind of thing has happened to me, and I attribute it to agents "eyes being bigger than their stomachs," so to speak. They get excited about LOTS of stuff and then all of a sudden...they've got LOTS of stuff to deal with and they're swamped. Like they couldn't see that coming?

That makes just another reason to cross this agent off the list. Not with anger or outrage, just considering oneself forewarned. Poor planning is poor planning, and this is a sign of bigger things wrong than whether an agent cares about someone's ego!

My take,
Janny

I'm amused that no one has entertained the idea that maybe, just maybe, the book sucked?

Maybe she did read it. And thought it so horrible beyond belief that it wasn't worth more than a form rejection letter.

Just a thought.

Quote: "I'm amused that no one has entertained the idea that maybe, just maybe, the book sucked?

"Maybe she did read it. And thought it so horrible beyond belief that it wasn't worth more than a form rejection letter."

It may very well have sucked. Who knows, but it doesn't take an agent nine months to figure out if something sucks. More like 2 paragraphs. I think that is what all the hullabaloo is about. For writers, the hardest part is the waiting. Well, and maybe the staring at a blank monitor... and public speaking sucks, too...

Regarding the idea that the book sucked and didn't "deserve" anything more than a form . . . I thought we weren't supposed to read into rejections unless they addressed specific issues with the book? Now we have to suppose that form=book sucks? I thought form=agent doesn't have time to deal with lowly author.

"Maybe she did read it. And thought it so horrible beyond belief that it wasn't worth more than a form rejection letter."

Ouch.

See, this is why I don't invest the energy into trying to figure out what the agent was thinking. You're trying to read her mind, and that's impossible. While the agent's job is to sell the book, your job is to sell it to the agent. If it were any other "product," say a Kitchenaid Mixer, and your customer wanted a pink one and you only had a yellow one, that would be it. End of sale possibility. You wouldn't take it so personally. It wasn't what she wanted/needed for her pink kitchen. You wouldn't need an explanation as to why she wanted a pink kitchen rather than a yellow one.
Silly analogy, I know, but you get the idea. Don't stress it. Get over it.
To continue the sales analogy, you went to the agent. The agent didn't solicit you. When I get a no, I get out my list, and look over the query letter to tweak it again before I send it out.
I can't control what the person needs at the other end, but I can control what I do.

I thought we weren't supposed to read into rejections unless they addressed specific issues with the book? Now we have to suppose that form=book sucks? I thought form=agent doesn't have time to deal with lowly author.

I'm not a writer or anything related. However, from what I've read on this topic I'd guess one reasonable algorithm is:

Single form rejections are meaningless.

50 form rejections means that something is terribly wrong and you need to fix it.

Chances are if the book is that bad, you won't have 50 requests with which to garner 50 form rejections.

I sympathize. Really I do. But it's all down to economics. If the supply outstrips demand then the gatekeepers will treat the supply however damnwell they please. As much as I've learned from Miss Snark, she is one of the gatekeepers and so I'm not surprised by her reply.
To everyone else who has said to query more widely, I agree. Best of luck! But I don't necessarily agree that you didn't want this agent in the first place. Chances are they were neglectful with the slush because they were too busy supporting the writers already on their books.
Whatever the case, join the rest of us as we slowly slog our way to Enlightenment & the NYTBL!

Y'know, it sounds like this sort of thing is fairly standard and, fine, publishing is slow, agents don't rush to make sure authors they don't care about get a rejection in a timely manner.

You know what gets me about the rejection letters? The ones that are all about the agent. Like, "Dear Author - I, the agent, have deep regrets about rejecting you so callously, unfortunately I am very busy and given the fact that I get X number of queries and have so much other work to do, I just can't write a personal letter.

Be aware, however, that I, the agent, am full of tender feelings and sensitivity towards all the authors receiving this form letter and have great faith that someone else might be the right person for you."

I once got a rejection that was just my empty SASE with "No thanks" written on the back. I prefer that to these "me me me" letters written by agents. Once they've decided not to take an interest in me, I'm definitely not interested in how busy their day is or how deep down they're still a good person.

It happens (form or form email replies for fulls). And it happens a lot these days. When I first started querying, I got personal letters and phone calls. Now all are emails.

Emails are faster, instant gratification (like the less-frequent phone calls). But they can be so brief and impersonal that they are no better than form letters.

However, the agent blogs nowadays are showing me exactly why we're getting form letters/emails on full reads that were requested (in many cases with enthusiasm): when agents take the time to say "I liked this, didn't like that," they may feel they're opening the door to a two-way relationship they don't want, or encouraging a future stalker of America.

Or, this author (and I) might write fantastic queries... so good we get "if I represent you" in the request email... but our novels aren't quite as fabulous yet.

In Catch-22, Colonel Cathcart writes the following letter of condolence to the family of every man killed in action:

"Dear Mrs., Mr., Miss, or Mr. and Mrs.: Words cannot express the deep personal grief I experienced when your husband, son, father or brother was killed, wounded or reported missing in action."

I recently received a letter that began:

"Dear Author: We'd like to thank you for sending your query, which we enjoyed reading. We are sincerely sorry to say that after careful consideration, we just don't feel we are the right agents to represent your book."

The only thing I would have liked more was if they began, "Dear Novelist, Short-Story Writer, Poet or Memoirist."

None months for an entire novel is nothing. Pah! I submitted a SHORT STORY to a major magazine. They state their response time as six months. After ten months I queried and they replied, "Soon, very soon." Three weeks short of one year, I received a FORM REJECTION. Yeah, I'm pissed, but I'll live.

Many of these comments are ridiculous. The author said nothing about granting an exclusive and in fact is explicit in saying he/she had moved on long ago, only finally querying status in order to get to closure. Nine months is too long. This agent is a loser and he/she is better off with someone else.

Ask both. If they get too many submissions they might have to make selections and you will hit yourself if you only submit to EE and don't get in.

Just cross your fingers and hope they don't say the same, or hope they do and fix it.