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I fail to understand the enthousiasm for this show, besides the title and the name of the characters it has nothing to do with the comic-book. Average tv at best.

The comic book was the comic book. The show is the show and it’s a pretty great one so far.

ive watched the show and as a fan of the book i have to say its been pretty bland. i see what they are trying to do in order to build up to jessie’s great commission if you will but its so slow i don’t see how average viewers will want to invest the time into watching it.

jessie’s forcing people to love god and take his advise is so out of character for what he would do i really dont recognize the guy.

Beautiful panels in this story, with great graphic shapes and tone rhythms! (dark panels interspersed with lighter areas etc) Thanks for posting this.

Ever since I saw his work on the original Static (Milestone Media) I’ve been impressed with John Paul Leon’s work. Really, really nice. Is he currently working? If not, that’s really a shame. This guy’s craftsmanship is top notch.

Wow, this is great work.

I feel sorry for all those people buying Civil War who are apparently assuming the storyline or even the quality is anywhere near the movie.

So glad to hear Preacher is getting picked up by people. I really loved the book and thought the show did a good job with its tone and plotting. The only thing I really didn’t like was that it showed Jesse somehow becoming more god fearing, not less. I imagine AMC didn’t want Fox News and bible thumpers to jump all over it, but as an atheist, I’m bummed that he hasn’t cursed out god yet and started hunting him down. That said, I think there’s time for them to make that character turn, so I’m withholding criticism.

“The only thing I really didn’t like was that it showed Jesse somehow becoming more god fearing, not less.”

Depending on the angle the show takes, I think that’s a fair starting point that he can build off of. I imagine they’re trying to keep the length of the series open-ended, so his rage against god would have to take a while to build up momentum.

It seems to be too early in the preacher storyline for the Meat Man. Jesse Custer’s journey looks to be very different than how it originally went. I’m afraid Humper Dumper De Doo moment will not have the profound impact like the original series.

Odin? Not Starr, who he sounds like a perfect fit for?

I would have gone way older.

A frail, small 90 year old man humping a pile of meat?
Hilarious.

The CW also has iZombie, unless that has been cancelled.

Great piece, I really liked what you said about the live action tv dc stuff. But then I thought about that Arrow comic with the show runners, and how that didn’t really work. Maybe the talent just wasn’t right. If they were up for it, sticking Valentine and some of those other creators you mentioned and getting cohesion ‘like Marvel Star Wars cohesion’ for that line would be a thing of beauty. But, if you were to do that, would you detach it from continuity?

Another issue, especially when it comes to initiatives and new readers, is the delivery system/venue/format. Some people just don’t want monthly drips of a story or to collect comics they just want to read stories. There are a whole world of publishers and creators making those connections now. D

These are all great ideas but I’m particularly interested in the Vertigo one. I think the push they made at the end of 2015 is falling pretty flat and I’m guessing only two of those books will have any sort of lasting traction (Sheriff of Babylon and Unfollow). It’s really hard to see what kind of identity Vertigo can have now that Image is drinking their milkshake. I mean, I’m all for them putting out original, mature-reader works – especially if there is something in it for the creators – but going back to being a place for edgy, sophisticated mature-readers stories about weird DCU characters might be an ultimately more successful and brandable route for them to go.

DC needs to create some new characters, and not just superheroes., instead of reviving old series. I assume this is supposed to appeal to readers’ nostalgia, but there aren’t enough 50-something Baby Boomers and 40-something Gen X’ers still reading their comics to make this work. Create some new characters for the new readers.

“Steal a big name”: DC surged in the ’80s by “stealing” Frank Miller, John Byrne and other popular Marvel creators. Of course, they were helped by Jim Shooter’s management style, which led so many writers and artists to flee Marvel.

Question was the goal of this article how DC could sell more comics?

Because of it was only DC Unlimited is the only idea that fits that idea.

Tie in books to tv shows and cartoons don’t sell.

Vertigo comics featuring Constantine don’t sell.

Books written by minority writers like Orlando, Valentine, Tynion, Doyle don’t sell.

Diverse types of books like Omega Men, Black Canary, Midnighter, Prez don’t sell.

Short of WB magically getting the rights to Star Wars DC isn’t going to be selling comics.

I agree with Robert Mayland above. I’m not saying that DC couldn’t use a pretty hefty dose of diversity I think that the idea that somehow hiring someone of color will produce a comic book that is not only a) great and innovative and b) everyone of color will automatically read it..It’s not only demonstrably wrong (see the rest of the Top 10 comics on the list) but it’s also mildly condescending tbh.

“At the same time, it’s possible that they misjudged how big the market actually is for this kind of approach to their heroes.”

THIS. I’m sorry but it’s quite clear that Tumblr and its ilk are basically the very vocal minority (no pun intended). I agree with you that Batgirling isn’t bad but, as you said, you can’t try to build the undercard with it simply because there isn’t that much of a demand for it and no amount of promotion would help that. Also, while I’m spouting anecdotes I have a sinking suspicion that this same demographic they’re so desperately trying to court is of the same generational mindset that most of their media should be free or illegally downloaded. Obviously this is unprovable conjecture but we’re all just spitballing here anyway.

The rest is SPOT. ON. Especially the DC Unlimited idea. I’m sorry but who on Earth would pay $3.99 a pop for a DRM digital copy of a comic that costs the company next to nothing to produce?

Finally, before I step off my soapbox I’d like to add the idea that perhaps DC should shift into more of a manga approach and begin selling longer books at more affordable prices. No matter how you cut it, 4 bucks for an 8 minute read that won’t be continued for 30 more days just isn’t a good bargain. Especially in these days of super decompressed storytelling.

Everything having to do with sales, or (perhaps more importantly with the nature of a non-returnable Direct Market) the *perception* of sales really actually at the end of the day comes down to “is it any good?”

So any essay that doesn’t begin with editorial (and/or institutional) direction is, probably, missing the point.

-B

Hi Brian,

Maybe, but I’m not privy to actual conversations that occur regarding creative directions for DC’s various lines other than hearsay. Frankly, as of right now, I don’t know what DC’s editorial direction even is, if you were to really ask me. Perhaps you have better insight?

I sure hope no one ever actually makes the argument that good sales = good comics, cause there’s a whole lotta not very strong (IMO) X-Men comics that would disprove that thesis right quick.

But Brian – some of the DC You books are amazingly good and yet don’t sell. So material being “good” is not the answer. If they’re producing good material but it isn’t what the comics fans who walk into the store every week want, then their marketshare will continue to drop. And if they’re producing good material but the retailers and/or regular subscribers don’t have any faith in it then it won’t get on the shelves anyway and the people walking in to try it out won’t see it.

DC needs to decide if they want to be a comic book company anymore or not. If they don’t, then their dwindling marketshare in the comics market doesn’t matter at all and they can just continue to do what they’re doing until they reach the point where they’re not making enough money on the comics publishing to cover the overhead. At which point they can shut it down or license their characters out to another company to publish. But if DCE doesn’t really care one way or the other about publishing comics anymore and really want to be a brand management company, then maybe they just get as much money as they can out of the market for the next few years and shut it down when the profits start to being too small to care about.

If they want to be a comics company then they need to start sucking up to the retailers again. DC only gets their stuff on the shelves when they stroke the retailers a lot because the retailers in the business continue to view Marvel as their cash cow and DC as the also-ran. So if they want to be a comics publisher they should be bribing the retailers more heavily than Marvel does – do things like make more books returnable for longer to get retailers to stock more on the shelves and take more chances, or create some incentives for retailers to stock a diverse selection of titles rather than incentivizing buying dozens (or more) of extra copies of a single title to get those variant covers they sell on eBay. It may not be “fair” that they need to suck up to retailers more than Marvel does to get their books promoted, but business ain’t fair and if Marvel is doing that much better sales wise then its time to make some drastic interventions.

If they can’t afford to do that, and still want to publish something like “comics” in house then the other choice would be to give up on the month-to-month Direct Market and push heavily into the digital realm. Cut their printing costs dramatically by giving up on floppies entirely and switching to a digital to collection pipeline that would get their books on the bookshelves faster and forget about the monthly magazine format entirely. it would mean essentially giving up on the direct market, but with their marketshare dwindling as rapidly as it has this year the DM might just give up on them if they don’t do something drastic.

But they need to do something dramatic to convince readers and retailers that they’re not in a death spiral at this point. The reboot and the jump back to 90s style comics goosed their sales for a while on the nostalgia wave, but it didn’t work for long and its not going to work again. They need to do some more fundamental things than just make “good comics” to get back where they need to be or else they’re going to leave the market one way or another.

Robert,

“Tie in books to tv shows and cartoons don’t sell”

Maybe, maybe not. The current set of books DC releases are never adequately promoted for the tv viewer, or given creative teams that general interest the LCS customer. But, do both of those things and perhaps they will move units. They just announced a “Dark Archer” comic co-written by John Barrowman. But it’s probably going to be so underpromoted and hidden in their Comixology lineup, it’ll barely make a blip on the radar.

I know Buffy tie-in comics really aren’t all that comparable given that it was considered the “official continuation of the show”, but that first issue sold 90k copies. There’s an audience out there for this kind of stuff provided you hit the right buttons.

“Vertigo comics featuring Constantine don’t sell.”

Certainly not issue 200-300 something, which is how Hellblazer was basically left for the entrenched reader. But I think it’s hard to argue that an IP that a reader recognizes, starting at issue 1, wouldn’t sell better than a creator owned one that they don’t, barring there being a superstar creative team in question (and even then, it might not sell all that well, again see: Twilight Children).

I’m surprised by Unfollow. Immediately picked up for TV, no one seems to even know it exists. In fact, I was looking for a copy of the second issue (as my store had only copies that literally had split open on all the bottom seams, part of that whole “We print crappier comics today than we did in the 60’s!” mentality the Big Two are using today, but I digress… ) and comic shop owners were all like “Unfollow? I’ve never heard of that title.” Boom.

And can ANYONE tell me what Survivors’ Club is actually about? I mean, I read the first issue and it made 99.8% no sense. Honestly, I pick up each issue that comes out, look over it in the shop and go “Nope, still making NO sense!” ;) I wanted to like it, too.

I thought creators were ditching Vertigo for Image because its page rates had gotten worse (see: Snyder, Morrison, Lemire). Something must have changed to spark all these launches.

Based on Diane Nelson’s description of Vertigo as reported by Variety at the Variety Summit in September 2015 it sounded like the creator-owned aspect is all but gone.

“Vertigo, which focuses on stand-alone fantasy stories, is an engine “for getting original IP into the company and feeding other businesses as well as our publishing business.”

http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/dc-diane-nelson-batman-vs-superman-marvel-flash-arrow-1201595124/

Superman Lois & Clark turns out to be an 8-issue miniseries in a tweet posted before the publication of this article.

Wow at Omega Men doing the usual Vertigo numbers.

“In DKIII’s case, even if you are very generous and assume that up to 200K of those copies went to customers who actually read them (and frankly I think that the number is likely closer to 150K), that means that over half of the total copies sold of DKIII #1 are either sitting unread in a bag and board somewhere or just taking up space on a retailer’s rack (and before too long in a retailer’s quarter box…)”

Dave, maybe don’t confuse sell-through with profit?

My basic line is that you can’t succeed in retail if you’re not keystoning cost-of-goods (doubling your whole cost), but the nature of Variants, both limited by number (1:25, 1:50 and so on) as well as retailer-exclusive covers (where the large majority of DK3’s 440k is going to *actually* come from) means that you might very well be keystoning COGs and yet still be liquidating the majority of your sell-in number.

I also suspect there’s a WIDE swath of retailers who are “just” breaking even on store-exclusives, but they view it as a marketing expense, and therefore are revenue neutral in their heads.

If someone has been selling comics for six years or more, and is still in business, and doesn’t show any signs of imminent closure… well, it’s probably safe to assume that their business model is absolutely no worse than break-even at which point the market needs to say “Sure, OK” — it’s only cases in which retailers are actively losing money that we should have the slightest concerns about their viability — and the impact on the greater market in the sense of “collapse”

*just because you don’t like how someone conducts commerce does not, a priori, make it a poor model*

(All said with the understanding that I personally believe variants, and marketing in that direction to be the equivalent to a disease: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=41000)

-B

@Brian: I understand fully well that retailers can be breaking even or coming out ahead on incentive variants even while leaving a large amount of the stock unsold. That was kind of my point. It may be good in the term for retailers and publishers, but long term it is bad for everyone.

I mentioned my August 2015 column with my variants rant, but neglected to link to it; it’s here http://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-august-2015-bombshells-return/

I suspect you and I agree far more than disagree on this.

@axspo This column was submitted several days before it was published on the site.

Nathan AAron–

I’m with you. I haven’t bought a book from ‘the big 2’ for years, but the premise (as advertised) for Survivor’s Club intrigued me.

I read the first issue, scratched my head, and never went back.

“Based on Diane Nelson’s description of Vertigo as reported by Variety at the Variety Summit in September 2015 it sounded like the creator-owned aspect is all but gone.”

But if it’s all about IPs for other media, I wonder if that’s the lure, and if there’s a major incentive if they get bought up.

I’m not gonna cry for vertigo as they launched al those new titles with a 3.99$ cover price and apparently stopped their 9.99$ pricing, and did not bother to communicate at all on what their new offer will be to promote this new line of titles.

And yes, I was quite early this month with my column, as I was the last one last month. :p

It’s actually “Dark Night,” not “Dark Knight.”

Yeah, we will have to give it another issue to really get going. Which is sad, because this issue was gorgeous. Cooke and Stewart delivered just stunning work every panel. Unfortunately the story is nothing to get excited about yet. And I’m a gigantic Gilbert Hernandez fan.

Honestly, it read to me like the Palomar side of Love and Rockets but without the sexual overtones, which is fine with me. It’s probably the best thing with a Vertigo label I’ve read in years and years.

I think Beto’s Vertigo work is kind of an interesting animal, as he leans a little more Lynch and less Almodovar or Waters. I prefer when he’s in the latter mode, but its hard not to celebrate any new work from the elder Hernandez. Easily the highlight of my comics reading week, Two Brothers aside.

Correction: FX to Produce Brian K. Vaughan and Pia Guerra’s “Y: THE LAST MAN” for TV.
Unless you were mentioning just the one man to be ironic.

Whatever happened to Pia?

Great actor to be working on 100 Bullets, but it’s a property that I think would make a much better tv show than a movie. Just the initial concept of someone getting 100 untraceable bullets before rest of the back story comes into play, is something that works best when you see the results of many different characters, rather than it play out just once.

I don’t disagree.

This should read “2015 Eisner award-winning” J.H. Williams III shows off Sandman panel artwork (grin)!

Cool, I’m going to have to keep an eye out for more detail on these!

Glad to hear Astro City’s sticking around! I’m not sure about Coffin Hill, but the latest round of solicitations listed the final issue of FBP. At least they seem to have had enough time to wrap things up more naturally than Hinterkind — I really liked that series, but the ending felt very rushed.

From what I gather about Hinterkind, it sounds like they pulled an Evangelion towards the end.

Coffin Hill ends with issue #21 in August. FBP ends with issue #24 in September.

The launch of Vertigo in the early ’90s kept me reading comics at a time when I was getting tired of superheroes, so this is good news. I wonder if DC changed the contract to make it more creator-friendly?

I will be watching for the previews solicitations for these to see if any catch my interest.

I’m definitely in for Twilight Children and Clean Room, from two of my favorite creators… but from the people I’m less familiar with, Art Ops seems like it could be a blast. Right up my alley.

What’s the deal with “New Romancer?” Some play on “Neuromancer?” Cyberpunk love story? Color me intrigued…

[…] SDCC ’15: VERTIGO Strikes Back at Claims of Demise; Announces TWELVE New Series Including the … […]

[…] SDCC ’15: VERTIGO Strikes Back at Claims of Demise; Announces TWELVE New Series Including the Retu… The Beat, Alexander Lu Vertigo, das Label von DC für „erwachsene Leser“, das in den 1990er und frühen 2000er Jahren für einige großartige Genrecomics jenseits von Superhelden sorgte, ist kreativ und kommerziell schon seit einiger Zeit auf dem absteigenden Ast. Mit Fables endet in Kürze der letzte stabile Dauerseller, so dass die Zukunft des Imprints nicht sehr rosig aussieht. Die Musik spielt inzwischen bei Image – wo auch viele Zeichner und Autoren aktiv sind, die einst mit Vertigo-Titeln bekannt wurden. Kampflos aufgeben will man aber nicht: Auf der San Diego Comic Con kündigte der Verlag an, dass ab Herbst im Wochentakt gleich 12 neue Serien gestartet werden. Ein letztes Aufbäumen oder der Beginn einer neuen Ära? […]

Timothy Olyphant or Walton Goggins get my vote…but I probably just have those ads for Justified in my brain. Maybe James Badge Dale?

I would much rather see joseph gordon-levitt as Custer than Dream.

If he was younger it would be Christian Slater, as elements of True Romance can be seen in Preacher. I also think Timothy Olyphant would have worked if he were younger too.

I don’t think Dominic Cooper would be a good choice.

Unfortunately I’m starting to worry more and more that this adaptation will be badly done. Worried at first that since it was on AMC they would not get the tone correct, (they kept BB and WD on curse word quotas) WD’s Rick couldn’t use the F word on last season’s finale after all. For some shows that wouldn’t matter, but I think a big part of Preacher is the over-the-top insanity of it all and I think AMC will have to reign that in too much. Unlike many, I initially was not worried about it being in Seth Rogan and Evan Goldberg’s (sp) hands. Though I’m not too into their casting choices so far.

I’d like to see Jonathan Rhys Meyers (The Tudors) for Jesse – physically he does look pretty close to Fabry’s cover art (and has the acting chops!).

Dan – you really think being able to use the word fuck is wholly representative of translating the tone of these works to TV? If that’s so, it’s a rather immature understanding of the works as they stand. Neither Walking Dead or Breaking Bad lost the tone of what they were trying to do due to not being able to use curse words. Rogan and Goldberg are fans first, which has proven to be, more often than not, the thing most important to keeping the tone of these works from the comics. Early reviews of the pilot script have said that it very much captures the tone of Preacher, while changing things in a very Walking Dead way to keep the property more dramatic and fresh for TV. While I agree Walton Goggins or Tim Olyphant likely would make much better Jesse Custer’s than Dominic Cooper, the fact that Arseface is even in it gives me faith that the developers are staying close to the text while illuminating and dramatizing things that make it a better fit for TV.

The swearing or no swearing, its gonna be hard to nail the tone of Preacher on the TV. Its hard to imagine normal folks stomaching a teenager who attempted to kill himself cuz of Kurt Cobain, survives, and then serves as comic relieft for the first story arc. AMC’s style seems a little monotone for Preacher.

I vote for the cast of Its Always Sunny to fill the main spots. You know who goes where.

And I presume Bourdain too will be tarred and feathered for “cultural appropriation” as well…or does that only apply to small web comic artists that online harrassment will work on and not TV celebrities?