“Cap has been evil before and he’ll be evil again.”

Captain American has not been evil before. He’s been brainwashed, manipulated, impersonated and mistaken. He’s never been evil. Or least he never was when I was reading Marvel Comics, which admittedly stopped back in the early to mid 2000s. So I guess I can’t speak to much after that or about any continuity changes made that would explain how, for example, Hydra would even have been a thing in 1930s/40s America since it was actually created by Baron Strucker in World War II-era Japan.

And for anyone who doesn’t think this whole thing is stupid and lame, what do you think the reaction would be if “The Walking Dead” came out with an episode this fall where they revealed that Rick Grimes has secretly been the scientist responsible for the zombie plague all along?

If anything can happen, then nothing that happens can mean anything.

Mike

Totally agree with MIke’s comment (above)..

As a writer, I like to think that if I were given the awesome privilege of writing a story for a character who has been around for 70+ years or more, I wouldn’t take the opportunity to totally screw up who he is and what he’s about. That is what bothers me the most. They sacrificed Cap’s character and his legacy for the sake of a stupid story that will “get people talking!” and supposedly make them money.

“If anything can happen, then nothing that happens can mean anything.”

Nobody tell him about the magic time travel bullets.

Holy fuck, there is no sacrificing of legacy. It’s obviously going to be a fakeout. Have you brain donors read a comic before?

It’s ridiculous for people to get angry over what is obviously a gimmick designed to get media attention and (hopefully) beef up sales. Didn’t we learn from the “death of Superman” (and later the “death of Captain America”) not to take these “shocking” twists seriously?

Mike said: “Captain American has not been evil before. He’s been brainwashed, manipulated, impersonated and mistaken. He’s never been evil. Or least he never was when I was reading Marvel Comics, which admittedly stopped back in the early to mid 2000s.”

Mike is utterly correct. Cap was brainwashed in that Lee-Kirby story where he salutes Hitler. I stopped reading Captain America in 1996 (after Rob Liefeld’s first issue), so I can’t speak to the last 20 years of Cap. But the character was never evil when I was reading the book.

“There’ve been other stories where he’s been a Nazi/Hydra agent … those were not attempted at a time when racial hatred were already at a recent high, specificlly in the context of addressing that heightened racial hatred.”

Kirby’s Cap-as-Nazi story was drawn in 1965, in the middle of the Civil Rights movement, when racial hatred was at a much greater high than it is now, with much greater repercussion than there are now.

I’m not saying people shouldn’t be outraged by that recent panel if they want to be outraged, but why aren’t they equally (or more!) outraged by the Kirby panel? At that point the Holocaust was only slightly further in the past than 9/11 is to us now.

Heidi, I love this piece! You framed the discussion around this story so well.

In the 15ish years I’ve been a comic book internet human, I don’t remember seeing people incensed about a comic book while invoking so much… I dunno, ethical high ground? It’s a bit surreal. Fun to see people argue it, though!

I really love how Marvel’s marketing bit them on the ass this time. But it’s also one of those any press = good press sorta things, I guess.

Still, it’s been a while since they had this kind of backlash! Probably since the Jemas days, right? Or maybe Joe Q’s Spider-Divorce was like this too and I’m not remembering it well.

“You voted with your attention and hate won.”

For what it is worth (little?) we sold roughly 4x the copies of REBIRTH on Wednesday than we did of the new CAPTAIN AMERICA, so I’m not sure that this is an accurate hot take.

-B

^^^

I think the writer forgets that Captain America just had a worldwide blockbuster success in the cinemas, and people know him from not just the comic books – who have also been joining in this discussion. Of course it will seem like it’s more popular, when Rebirth only really effects long time DC fans.

I think what everyone else is forgetting is that the issue you’re all talking about with the Hitler salute panel, is in tales #67. The cover for that story SETS UP the premise, doesn’t leave it till the end, and the cliffhanger, so to speak, is not on the topic of HOW this could be the case, because it is completely explained within the pages of the book, but how Bucky is going to rescue Cap. A completely different problem. No one tricked anyone, in fact the COVER was the selling point – when covers were used to tease the inside of a book, not just look pretty.

I don’t buy DC’s love and optimism because I feel that their efforts are empty and hollow. It’s a show, and it’s a show that they aren’t even very earnest about.

I also don’t buy Marvel’s kayfabe in telling us “Yeah, Cap’s evil, always was,” but I don’t know why kayfabe is necessary at all.

Well, I think the market wants fewer $4 comics. But, yeah, I’d be very curious to see Marvel’s market share broken out when you take all the Star Wars books out of the equation…

There’s talent at Marvel and DC, that’s never an issue. People’s tastes are just diverging right now. Ebbs and flows. Spider-Man and Batman respectively will always be popular to some degree. The Big Two will be fine.

I’m a Boomer, in my early 60s. I read more Image comics than from any other company. Saga, Lazarus, Velvet, Black Magick, Descender, Shutter, and Copperhead are amazing comics and they don’t force me to read crossovers with titles I don’t have any interest in. From Marvel, I read Ms. Marvel and am looking forward to the return of Captain Marvel and Black Widow. From DC, I read Red Hood Arsenal (but only because Roy Harper is my favorite character; the book kinda sucks right now), Harley Quinn, and Black Canary. Astro City continues to amaze and delight.

I like diversity and variety. I grew up a DC reader, getting 30-40 titles a month, but I got tired of reboots and being made to feel like I don’t matter. I got tired of endless crossovers and the unrelenting lack of fun in most DC books. It was the New 52 reboot that drove me to find new comics to read and inspired me to sample Image titles.

I can’t help buy wonder if DC and Marvel even know who their readers are or what readers they want to encourage. It seems that every time I get to like a character or comic, they’re rebooted or canceled. It’s too frustrating for me.

Marvel and DC have done amazingly well for two companies that, to most normal people, sell the same product, and have been repackaging that same product for 60 years.
I doubt any of the major film studios or prose publishing house would have survived this long on that model.

I think you missed the nut graf in the Rising Son piece!

“If publishers could keep trades available at Distributors, trades like Bee & Puppycat, Lumberjanes Vol One, Rick & Morty, Steven Universe, Lady Mechanika, Afterlife With Archie Vol One, Amazing Gumball and Bob’s Burgers would be selling like Saga. I don’t understand why they let these books go out of stock ever for any reason ever. Get it together guys!”

This is a significant problem, not only because it disappoints customers, but ALSO because it dramatically, drastically and completely undercuts the efforts that RETAILERS have put into promoting these titles. We only have so much “promotional bandwidth”, and “flaky indies” is why a lot of stores evolved into Marvel/DC dominance.

What kills even worse is these are not artistic problems (which I think some of use would sympathize with), but basic organizational ones of not predicting supply in the face of what I would argue is pretty clear evidence.

And I also hear very very similar to Shelly’s above comments in the store ALL the time from 40+ customers, so it is definitely not just the “new customer”.

-B

Maybe the graphs aren’t indexed clearly because they’re explained in the context of the article…

I was also under the impression that Marvel and DC don’t need to be profitable publishers, since they operate as r&d for Disney and Warner Bros.

Not that that’s any comfort for the retailers.

David: yes the context makes them easier to understand but not to gank for another article! I’m amazed at all the work you’ve put into this! Great job. I can only steal from you and add my own slogans.

DC is making products for people who don’t read DC Comics because someone on Tumblr told them to.

Meanwhile the New 52 was the best “jumping off point” a reader could ask for. The post 52 resurgence was based on taking badic tennants of casual fan knowledge and telling New stories that took into account 75 years of storytelling. Lose the history; lose the fan interest.

Now DC is this weird mess of overly decompressed 90s extreme storytelling and borderline pandering “quirky” books that at $4 a pop aren’t econical to experiment with even if you had entertained the thought of checking out a millenial reboot of “Prez”

“Basically, there are very few comics elitists left.”

I’m one!

Perhaps they should change the title. Also, you have a really glaring typo in your headline.

I love Heidi, but I did once see her kill a man just to watch him die. Whereas I have never take a life. Just saying..

A classic comix fight: each of us with our eyes closed and heads back and slapping rapidly at each other…

It’s more a respectful debate, than a “fight.” I like Tony and I’ve read his columns for years, all the way back to the old Buyer’s Guide in the Eighties. He’s always been one of the mainstreamy guys most open to new types of comics, and I’m not saying that because he just gave a glowing review to my new book, Trashed, or lauded me here in his BAC takedown. I just think he missed the mark. BAC is certainly fair game for criticism, that’s not the point, I just think but the vehemence of his rant was a bit much. I know and respect quite a few of the creators in this year’s BAC, so I raised my hand and made my case.

I dunno, if you look at that table of contents, you’ll see that Lethem and BAC this year were looking exclusively at solo creators, whereas just about everything done not just by DC and Marvel, but also Image, Dark Horse, Boom! and IDW are done by writer/artist teams. So, no “Bitch Planet,” no “Saga,” no “March,” no “Lumberjanes.” If you don’t view comics as a collaborative artform, you’re going to miss a lot of the “best” work.done in any given year.

Derf has a press persona and his usual one. He’s the same guy who has outbursts at shows because other, better guests, have a schedule to keep even though he’s had a good two years since the French have made him a darling. But he thrives on whining and has the attitude of a bitter suburban teenager wearing a heavy metal shirt. Derf is the sort of guy who probably went to the Mall when he was younger, just so he could stand against the wall and mock and criticize the passerby.

Isabella is a marginal talent whose blog entries far outweigh his actual comic scripts in terms of accessibility and entertainment. Perhaps this is because he has more of a chance to insert himself into the narrative. Poor Tony. Without his life-defining struggle against DC to elicit his passive-aggressive and whiny remarks, he seems to be without purpose.

“Hibbs, who owns two shops on San Francisco, reports that his November sales were down for the first time in seven years. ”

QUARTERS, not years!!

-B

Yeah, Brian, your comment on Marvel succeeding in attracting new readers and the, wanting them to, right away, understand those weird renumbering/relaunch habits…
That said, if marvel do like they previously did with Hawkeye, the paperback readers won’t see the change, as the paperback will continue with their usual numbering. And a lot of those new readers are probably paberback readers, right?

“And a lot of those new readers are probably paberback readers, right?”

Some are, others absolutely are not — I see new 20 something readers in my store ALL OF THE TIME, and, yes, MOST OF THEM are getting *hooked* on the periodical comic. They like trades very very much, but the things that turns them into FANS is the motivation to buy a new dream fifty-two weeks a year.

-B

“Not launching a Supergirl comic when the TV show debuted seems to be the kind of thing a leveraged company would do in a heartbeat; that this little detail escaped the vertical-obsessed bean counters is troubling.)”

The bean counters probably looked at the The Flash Season Zero and Arrow Season 2.5 comic books, and figured the costs associated with regularly publishing something similar for Supergirl was not worth the investment. The Flash and Arrow companion comic books never really sold all that well.

The constant reboots with #1’s, the huge DC/Marvel universe altering mega-events, and the constant reinventing of traditional characters in the interest of diversity is what is killing the industry. I walked away from Marvel super hero books shortly before the most recent Secret Wars mini-series. The only one I still read is Spider-Woman because it is fun and interesting. It doesn’t take itself too seriously and is not deeply intertwined with 500 other Marvel titles. If it gets to that point I will drop it immediately. The only other Marvel books I read are Darth Vader and Star Wars. The rest of my regular titles are DC and Independents (Dark Horse, IDW, Boom!, and Dynamite.) DC is my favorite publisher and I really like what they are doing, although after Convergence things have become a little muddy. Just bring the real Batman and Superman characters back and all will be forgiven.

All the publishers need to just let series get into the triple digit issue numbers instead of rebooting every 15 issues for no reason other than to introduce a new creative team. There is nothing wrong with ending a story arc, then coming back the next issue with a new team. And for crying out loud, stop pandering to the diversity crowd. Just let the established characters stay as they were originally. Introduce NEW diverse characters, but leave your bread and butter characters alone!!

The also need to stop with the variant covers. No one, other than market speculators hording them, will miss them.

Finally, how about printing them on traditional newsprint paper like the good old days. Get the price of the books down to $1.99-$2.50 and watch sales soar. Save the premium paper and cover stock for the “prestige format”, limited edition special event books (a la Dark Knight, Killing Joke, etc.)

I am so glad I moved on to the mostly female world of romance publishing after my disillusioning stints at Marvel and DC Comics in the 1970s and early 1980s. I fended off or ignored a fair amount of inappropriate behavior during those years, but nothing I’d call scary harassment, thank god. Others were not so fortunate, it turns out, and I’m very sorry to hear that. At the time, I saw how useless it was to campaign against sexism on staff or in the comics. No one was listening. The creative assignments automatically went to the guys, and I was considered a pill if I objected to female objectification in the comics themselves.
I have my own sad Julius Schwartz story, which I told years ago online and which wasn’t at all salacious–just heartbreaking to a kid who had every reason to believe that he would be my professional mentor. Instead, he told me to go home and get married, to forget about working the comics business. Turns out I was lucky, huh? Incidentally, I never heard anything whispered about Julie while his wife was alive. Nothing. Then again, people were very tight-lipped at DC over the harassment that female employees actually did endure. I got zero support when a man kept making extremely objectionable remarks to me–even in front of my boss. My boss just ignored it. Right. As if that makes it go away. I felt very sorry for the women who had to work for the slime, but the supposedly female-led culture at DC Comics at the time was to ignore the brutal reality of the entrenched sexism that allowed such harassment. The irony was that I often passed big name women’s liberation activists in the halls.
It’s sad to hear that the rotten traditions of the comics business continue today.

what about the actual editor tom danza on Dc comics? i think he is the same from valerie dorazio case. care to confirm?

Thanks for this, Heidi.

Heidi, thanks for writing this piece.

Sexual harassment is wrong, no matter who the gender is. I wonder why Scott Allie’s groping of a man turns this into a battle of the sexes. There is a problem in comics and it affects both genders. There are people, both men and women, who get blackballed for speaking out or are pressured to keep quiet and let bad behavior run rampant. Yes, there are not enough women or multicultural races in positions of power, but it’s the abuse of power, code of silence and the repercussions that is creating the problems in comics. And that power can be abused by women too, as in the case of Archie Comics.

The article and cartoons included seems to skip over this overall problem and just makes about women being the sole victims here. D’Orazio, who actually did write a poor Punisher book and was just as bad with harassing others. A better example would be Charles Brownstein, who had to be pried off a young lady at a hotel hot tub. Just like Allie, he gave out an apology, kept his position and the rest of the world moved on to the next scandal.

To those who wonder why I changed the name of the victim in the Julius Schwartz story it’s because the issue is not “Oh! So BIG NAME WOMAN was sexually assaulted!” The issue is Julius Schwartz as a serial harasser whose behavior was condoned and covered up by the comics industry, I am well aware that the names are easily revealed, but the identity of the victim is not the point of this article .

I think there’s a fair bit of mileage to go before too much attention is paid to the harassment of women relative to men, though yes, the silencing of whistleblowers can be depressingly non-discriminatory.

And from my perspective at least, the seemingly obligatory negging of Valerie’s Punisher book is not constructive — it’s interesting that folks seem to think it’s relevant to the main issue at hand. De gustibus and all that, but I happened to think it was rather smart and daring.

That makes sense, Heidi. Thank you for explaining the name change in the Julius Schwartz story. Thank you for writing this essay too. I am saddened that these things happen and as much as I would prefer not to think about them happening, the ONLY way to do that is to shine the light on them so people say this behavior is unacceptable and the incidents STOP.

The quality of a particular comic is not relevant, and never excuses harassment, any more than clothing does. Valerie D’Orazio did not deserve the treatment she got. Full Stop.

I don’t know if any of the apologies offered are sincere. I hope they are, and I hope people are getting help for the issues that they have. But I will need to think twice before putting money in the pocket of someone who harrasses or who enables harassers.

I’ve disagreed with Val in the past online. She’s never called me a misogynist. So thumbs down to you, Bobby.

Big time kudos to Joe Harris for coming forward.

And Heidi, this was an awesome piece.

During my time as Vice President of Comic Con, the behavior of Julius Schwartz (or, misbehavior might be a better term) was an open secret among the female members of the Con committee. He would offer a Superman pin and, then, personally pin it on the women (I won’t go farther but you can draw your own conclusions). Needless to say, many of us were on “Julius Watch” when he was near female members of the committee. Thanks, Heidi-this brought back some not-so-pleasant memories of Comic Con in the early days….and, the behavior seems to have gotten worse ( I recall having to have a “discussion” with a few aggressive attendees about what was NOT allowed).

1.) I don’t understand how Chris Sims and Valerie D’Orazio, two comics bloggers who have written about comics in the fan press and scripted comics for various publishers on-and-off on a freelance basis, squabbling with one another online five years ago has anything to do with publishers/editors harassing and/or sexually assaulting female creators. None of their public interactions ever had anything to do with gender or sex, and amounted to two people arguing over one another’s opinions and the quality of their writing.

2.) I don’t know who the name of the victim of the alleged Schwartz incident was. I think it is important.

3.) Heidi, regarding your reply to the replies, Schwartz WAS a serial harasser (I hear…? From you…?), not IS.

4.) Let’s leave Tubby out of this, huh?

This is a fantastic piece.

In my experience, HR departments have different levels of strength in different organizations. It all depends on who’s running things up top and how they think the HR Department should be used. Some management teams listen to them and follow through to be professional and protect themselves and their employees. Some instead do what they want and use the HR Department to find a way to justify it and cover their ass. It appears the comic industry has more of the latter. Also in my experience the focus of the department tends to shift to the latter in times of recession. Having the position of hiring people when lots of people desperate for work makes some people more nonchalant with how they operate in their position. This doesn’t excuse the bad behaviour though.

Caleb – Perhaps you should go read up more on the Sims/Dorazio case before posting? Because I think there several essays as well statements from the two people involved that might change your mind.

The name of the victim of Julius Schwartz isn’t important for the reason’s that Heidi said. I wonder if knowing is the difference between being a woman who is associated/fan in the comics industry vs. a man. I heard the story of “Christine” as soon as I hit the comics world in forums. And anyone with any decent Google Fu can probably realize who it is.

Part of the problem in the industry is illustrated by what you did in both cases brought here. You chose to diminish the situation with Sims and put the onus on the victim. This is the challenge people who are harassed (as it clearly isn’t a woman only thing but it is more often than not a woman).

Harassment is a horrible situation and it doesn’t have to mean boob gropes and wet kisses. It is demeaning and for the most part the victim is left deciding whether to say something or lose their job and be blackballed. I went through it (not in comics) and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

As far as Dark Horse this is once again one of the open secrets of comics. Glad to see that someone has finally had the guts to name names.

Todd, thanks for this article. Glad to see i’m not the only “fool concerned with price tag on comics”. :)

Interesting counterpoint to the doom and gloom people have been throwing at the #DCYOU relaunch:

http://graphicpolicy.com/2015/08/31/dc-comics-dcyou-shows-strength-looking-beyond-physical-sales/

The $1 increase is for NEWSTAND comics only. This is DC supporting the Direct Market which loses countless dollars year-to-year to the larger chain bookstores. And before jumping on DC’s case look at some history: MARVEL actually used the same gimmick a few years ago when they raised their prices $1 per book at the newstands (if memory serves it was sometime around 2011). This isn’t DC being greedy, it’s DC looking out for the little guy and offering a lower cover price for comic book store customers

Wow Erik, that’s a really interesting article. Thanks for sharing that link.

Honestly, Clint, it looks more to me like offsetting the cost of returnability. Which they have every right to do, especially if it allows them to get their comics into another market.

A cynical person might say that he happily pays the $1 per book surcharge just to stay out of the dark and dusty comic book shops. Okay, I’m just joking, RELAX!!!

Using Uncanny X-men as a baseline, here’s how the cover price would look in today’s dollars due to inflation.

1981 $.50 in 2015 would be $1.31
1982 $.60 in 2015 would be $1.48
1985 $.75 in 2015 would be $1.66
1988 $1.00 in 2015 would be $2.02
1992 $1.25 in 2015 would be $2.13
1994 $1.50 in 2015 would be $2.42
1995 $1.95 in 2015 would be $3.05
2001 $2.25 in 2015 would be $3.02
2004 $2.99 in 2015 would be $3.78
2010 $3.99 in 2015 would be $4.37

I’m sorry but anything over $3 a book is completely ridiculous. The only reason I don’t buy as many titles as I used to is price. I used to try everything, no matter the artist, no matter the writer, no matter the character or publisher, I’d give anything a try. Now I’m down to about 10 books a month and I’m about to give up with these prices. I’d rather go back to books printed on newsprint than keep paying these rates.

I pay $3.99 for the smaller publishers but that’s it for me. If Marvel and/or DC move to $4.99, there’s no way the little guy can’t follow suit and my 30+ years of buying new comics will come to an end.

Mike

Another explanation for the persistant $2.99 price for Teen Titans Go! would be that the TV show is a great support (and I live in France) to the paper version – or is it the other way round? One would have to have a closer look at the audience figures and floppy sales to confirm that – and as such, it complements Todd’s possible explanation that parents probably wouldn’t pay more than $2.99 per issue to support their childrens’ desire to pursue the Teen Titans adventures in comic book form as well. As a parent myself, I know that I wouldn’t.
Now, as an adult reader, I only buy two or three titles from the big two (because of the artists and writers working on it mainly) given their recent prices evolution. I don’t mind paying more if it’s to support smaller publishers – yet, I know the meaning of “smaller” should be put in perspective – as I sincerely think we have to support them since they regularly put on their A-game these last years.
Ànyway, very interesting article.

That quote from Dan Didio about raising prices on a shrinking audience is amazing. He’s absolutely right (in the quote), but in practice, most publishers are still “papering over” the reality of a shrinking audience with higher prices. Same thing in book publishing. We’re at a point now where you can easily spend $18 for a regular paperback novel.

This is a losing strategy for all the obvious reasons. Readers are the lifeblood of publishing and other small-item entertainment products, where you need lots of unit sales to make the economies of scale work. Loyal readers will sometimes pay a premium price for a premium product like IDW’s Artist Editions. But very few will pay an inflated price for the same product that was cheaper yesterday.

I’ve seen scenarios where a comic line commanded a premium price and turned into something lucrative with a small readership, but none of them have lasted. If you’re making things for a small audience, you need ALL of them to stay for the long haul, or else you lose too much margin, and that’s too difficult a trick to pull off.

Good for Tony! I hope that everything works out between him and DC Comics.

Today in TONY ISABELLA’S BLOGGY THING…Cats and dogs, living together: http://tonyisabella.blogspot.com/2015/07/black-lightning-2015.html

(Yes, I am shamelessly stealing Jeff’s very funny line from Ghostbusters.)

[…] Isabella to confirm via Facebook that he and DC were back on speaking terms (as publicized by The Beat’s Jeff Trexler). Isabella later told the story of the reconciliation on his personal […]

take the franchise in a new direction? maybe with just this book. considering all the rookie characters on the team, this looks more like an “avengers in training” book. do you really think this will be the only avengers book marvel will be producing during this “all-new, all-different” phase. before secret wars there were six avengers books floating around, you gotta figure there will be again at least that many upcoming avengers books (heard a-force is gonna stick around after secret wars) when all is said and done out of the fifty to sixty (or more) books debuting between October and December. the avengers are too hot a property with too many popular characters to just have one avengers book on the shelves. my guess would be that the other upcoming avengers books will have some characters join as new avengers, but also with the tried and true classic avengers spread out among them, so that if the “avengers in training” book is not your cup of tea, there will be other avengers books to choose from.

Hopefully with the non-reboot reboot we will get Rich Rider back as Nova and the can rebuild the Nova Corps with Sam, Rob Rider, Rich Rider since I think that would be an interesting book to build out the Marvel Cosmic scene after SW.

always wondered what happen to this project. glad to see it finally come to fruition. maybe after this series comes and goes, marvel could collect the blue, grey, yellow , and white into one volume, unless of course they’re planning a gold (iron man), brown (wolverine), orange (the thing), red (thor), periwinkle (aunt may), then who knows, maybe an omnibus is in order. : )

[…] (via The Beat) […]

Crass. What numbskull thought this was a good idea. Sheesh.

Now for the real questions:

-Will consumers be getting less pages of story for the same cover price?
-How are artists’ rates affected by this?

That looks hideous. If I get books with ads like that, I’ll tape blank paper over the ads, which would be better to look at than that horror. I hate ads in general, but full page ads are easily ignored. I just turn the page, so I suppose this is their way to force me to look at them. I’d sooner give up reading DC comics than put up with ads like that. And why would I want to look at that guy’s face, anyway? They can’t say they’re not intrusive. If they’re on the same page where we’re expecting story, they are intrusive. I’ve been thrown off by full page ads, so this is just going to be worse. Much worse.

I’m out. I was down to two DC comics, and I’m dropping them.

I was picking up six titles in June, but I won’t be now. TOTALLY unacceptable!

Guess my days of reading DC are over. I myself have just started a comic book publisher called Ecliptic Comics Publishers. I would never be so money hungry to place adds on the same pages I have story. DC has really stooped to an all time low. Kind of glad, makes it easier for companies like mine to work our way up when DC is ticking off their customers.

As Bill Hicks said “Once you do an advert you’re off the artistic roll call for life.” I understand the need of advertising to pay for printing etc, but when marketing start to fight, and win, with editorial you know something’s wrong within a company.

There are few independent ads in DC and Marvel comic books.
Where they exist is on the covers.
Inside, it’s all house ads, corporate cousins, or licensees.
DC did this before, back in the 70s. Magazines do it all the time, although those pages usually aren’t visually dense.

I suspect these ads will also appear in the digital comics, allowing DC to count those copies sold as part of the total circulation? (And it’s more difficult to strip out that ad from a scan.)

As for titles like Overture… you did notice that all of the advertising appears in the back, and doesn’t interrupt the story at all? Plus, for an art-driven title like that, DC can eschew the ad and raise the cover price.

Just going to increase trade paperback waiting. This is like drinking salt water to cure thirst.

God, certainly not incitative to go back reading DC universe comics. We pay more and more and have less and less.

I can’t believe people are actually claiming they are going to quit reading DC comics over this. Talk about over-reaction….

There’s no indication here that anyone is losing a page of art. What would normally be one full-page ad and one full-page piece of art are now two half-pages of each. It all adds up the same. And given the theme of Twix’s “left-side vs. right-side” it makes perfect sense. At the same time, unless another advertiser has the same sort of theme to their advertising, I doubt it will happen again.

Yet another sigh-inducing over-reaction to change by the comics-reading audience. You’d almost think someone’s costume had been retconned or something.

Complaints from the writers and artists who’ll have to accommodate the format constraints … those are legit. Designing an arbitrary page to be split into two half pages is awkward, and may not fit what they’re trying to do at that point in the story. It’s an annoying constraint, like prohibiting the use of double-page spreads for splashes and other two-page story layouts, because they might interfere with repagination in a TPB. Creators have a reason to grumble about this.

But readers complaining about half of a two-page spread being given to an ad are missing the point that they already see this every time they turn a page and one of them is a full-page ad. DC and Marvel have done this forever. The only difference here is that usually the ad page and the story page are split left/right rather than top/bottom. That’s it. It’s the same amount of story. The same amount of ad space. It’s laid out differently.

Different. That seems to be real reason behind these fantrums. I remember my cousin with Aspergers reacted like this when the movie theater he went to every Friday night first started running non-movie ads along with movie trailers, saying he was going to stop going to movies because of it. But he didn’t, because ultimately, it’s just another 30-second sales pitch, and once he’d sat thru a couple, he learned to deal with it, ad now he watches them like all the other ads before the movie starts. If he can cope with that, I certainly hope that DC’s audience can cope with this.

Jason A. Quest:

Readers like myself hate this for the same reasons creators hate it: it breaks up the flow and prevents full page spreads and discourages creative panel layouts, which we like. These are legitimate concerns.

Off the subject, I am extremely sorry I clicked on your profile. Gross, dude.

This is nothing new, old is the new new.

I really can’t imagine why they thought this would be a good idea. It disrupts the story and creates more work shuffling around panels when it comes time to release the comic in trade paperback form. There are plenty of good reasons why this kind of advertising hasn’t really been used for forty years.

DC has made so many blunders and weird decisions like this over the past few years, and it makes me wonder if anybody actually knows what they’re doing.

why not do what movies have done for years > product placement. Just have people eating twixes inside the comic world. maby batman has a case of them sitting in his house. if anyone has read the comic powers > then you know sony has made the live action version of it. you want to know what was placed all through it ? right , sony products. from computers to tvs. So maby they need ads but there ways around it then to put ads like this.

The most newsworthy aspect of this story is that DC is actually putting creative effort into ad sales. That’s a good thing for the comics biz. For years it was basically a shoulder shrug and 8 house ads. It’s awesome that a national brand thinks exposure in comics is cool.

With today’s increased sensitivity to the graphic make-up of comics by both the artists and the readers, this is a pretty yucky and tone deaf move. I won’t lose to much sleep about it, but at three or four dollars a pop, I don’t think there needs to be any more reasons to piss off mainstream publishers dwindling readership.

And if I may, a couple of historical notes:

The half page side-by-side ads were a layout of Marvel Comics (not DC) around 1970. This was a cost cutting measure to produce one less page of art, bringing the story page count down to 19 pages (from the previous 20 pages per book.)

DC (mainly throughout the 1960’s) employed third of a page ads (with two thirds of a story page above it.) This type of ad usually appeared at the end of a story and/or a story chapter. In this regard, it was a bit less disruptive than Marvel’s layout since those ads never appeared on facing pages and would be at natural break points in the book. (And most of the time they were filled by those cool DC house ads!) However, the motive was still the same as Marvel’s — three of those broken pages in a book would equal one less page of story and art that was needed to be produced.

Perhaps we’ll start seeing product placement directly integrated into artwork in the future.

Or corporate sponsored storylines:
“Batman meets the M&Ms! The Bitter Secret of Dark Chocolate, REVEALED!”

“UPDATE: An earlier version of the article indicated that Chris was upset with the job DC did integrating the art with the advertising. This is incorrect. He was displeased with the production of the ad itself.”

If I were an artist at DC I WOULD be upset with advertising being integrated into my art/page/panel layout.

It’s like placing a commercial mid-scene of a tv show.

Goodbye DC …. you don’t care about what the fans want any more. It’s all about the dollar! Besides, a lot of your advertised merchandise won’t be available outside the US. How thoughtful. You still think your country is the centre of the world!

Well, at least that explains why that one panel in a later issue of Fury MAX was inelegantly resized to move the sex outside the panel borders. In MAX comics, as Willumsen reveals, face-to-face male/female sex is always vaginal and therefore permissible, whereas sex from behind could only be anal and therefore cannot be depicted because anal sex is dirty, but don’t worry we still love you, gay people!!! Needless to say, this is a bizarre set of assumptions to run a “mature readers” imprint on.

Wimberly’s essay undoubtedly raises big issues, but the specific case he relates, more than being a case of whitewashing, seems to be the result of an editor’s failure to give an artist up front the references he needs to do the job he’s been assigned. If she’d provided examples of how that character was currently being depicted, he wouldn’t have needed to do his own research on a comics fan site and then guess at an appropriate skin tone based on the character’s ancestry listed there, which unsurprisingly turned out to be different from the character’s published appearances. Of course, it doesn’t help that the editor, perhaps being quite new at the job (we are talking about Katie Kubert here, right?), doesn’t herself seem very clear about the character appearing in the story she’s editing.

A blast in the can?

That’s a thing?

What’s the point of warning readers that you are linking them to a site that is NSFW b/c it has images of “Wolverine’s hairy ass” when “Wolverine’s hairy ass” is the very graphic you have for this story on your homepage? Doesn’t that make the NSFW warning a little too late?

Seriously? Marvel doesn’t want one of its characters shown having ANAL SEX and they have to get a lecture about it?

And now we know why Mark Millar doesn’t work for Marvel anymore.

I suspect this rule is in place BECAUSE of Alias #1, not in spite of it.
Bendis has said that scene was not meant to depict anal sex, yet many people misinterpreted it, and took to the internet because of it.

Im guessing Marvel is trying to avoid a repeat.

To mix metaphors, it’s difficult to break new ground when you are tiptoeing around….

“Blast in the can”? Didn’t know that one. There goes my credibility as a boundary-pushing queer pornographer, eh? Or do I get a free pass because I make comics that frequently depict the act in question? :)

“…we need indie comics and indie comics that pay living wages” Well, yes, we do. Doing my best both to produce and buy them.

When I read that headline, I thought you were talking about characters being banned from defacating on the toilet. You probably need a new euphemism.

I’m going to start using that phrase as much as possible, even when it makes no sense.

“Well ain’t that a blast in the can!”

[…] Make it a success so that the Big Two take heed to the call of their audience more often. By the way, it’s a worthwhile first issue so says Lindsey. Read her full review HERE. […]

Last I checked, Talon was good guy in his (now cancelled) series.

While I love villain stories, this book still lacks the magic that makes Suicide Squad great – that is, making me care about about the characters knowing they might bite it at any time. Are any of these villains going anywhere? No. It could still be a solid book but it’s difficult not to meet this revamp without a level of skepticism.

I’ve been with the Squad since their beginnings in the Legends miniseries from the mid 80s. This looks promising, at least different. Count me as one of the six or seven readers who does not care for Harley Quinn. I’m glad to see her gone from SS. However, I do feel that the Squad needs Captain Boomerang and Deadshot. To me, those two are and will always be the heart and soul of SS.

These are the optional titles.
Most seem to be aimed at the young reader, which is a good thing.

All 50 (!) titles have been revealed:
http://www.freecomicbookday.com/Home/1/1/27/981

Of the 12 gold titles, I’ll only criticize DC (which usually uses the Gold title to promote the latest event, and the Silver to promote Johnny DC) and Dark Horse for not being “suitable for all ages”.

Don’t wait… go read “Brodie Troll” and “Hip Hop Family Tree” now!

And kudos to Amanda Conner for the great 2015 logo!

http://ges-sa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/FCBD-2015-designs-7.jpg

Might we see that sextet between the pages?
Or cosplayed?

My local shop only lets customers pick up 4 free titles per person. I want all of those shown above!

Thanks for making me think about this topic. I sometimes get frustrated with slow artists, but their stuff should come out when it comes out; now, it’s on mainstream publishers to not promise stores/readers that stuff when they know an arist can’t possibly meet said deadline.

As it is, cartooning is a devalued form of artwork. I remember the Noah van Sciver comic about the glorious 19th century (I believe 19th?) cartoonist.

If Nate Simpson were able to deliver in a more timely manner, his talent would make him in high demand, thus eliminating his need for a day job and general money woes. While many people are going broke in comics, transcendent talents like Simpson will always find work and money. Only if he can work in a somewhat fastidious manner. Which he can’t and thus, his woes and ours as readers. This reader thought Nonplayer #1 was one of the most amazing comic books to ever come into being.

I enjoy the range of interconnected matters discussed in this article.

I have one note that piggybacks off of your closing remarks about what Nate Simpson. This isn’t anything that he can possibly fix but more of an open statement or request to any other Nate Simpsons out there:

Why don’t artists do what they *can*?

For instance, an artist who creates elaborate and rich art yet takes a very long time to complete this work…perhaps such an artist should focus on self-contained, non-serialized projects. Similar to a French graphic album, it could just be an impressive hardback, deluxe/prestige project. It isn’t only Nate Simpson, there are other comic artists who are in similar positions: talented, but incompatible with the serialized comic magazine format that the direct market is familiar with.

Anyway, that’s a thought.

As an aspiring comics artist who had a kid last year, I can tell you that having a kid throws MUCH more of a wrench into the works than anyone realizes. It’s not just a pile of laundry with a face that you have to keep the dog from eating. It’s a human person who becomes the center of your life.

I thought I’d be able to work on a couple pages a week and still move along more slowly but I learned quickly (much to my writer/friend’s chagrin) that this plan wasn’t going to work. I still fit in some work and some drawing here and there but to the outside world I’m pretty much at a stand-still. I don’t really care, though, because I’d rather hang out with my boy than be a comics superstar most days.

“If Nate Simpson were able to deliver in a more timely manner, his talent would make him in high demand, thus eliminating his need for a day job and general money woes. While many people are going broke in comics, transcendent talents like Simpson will always find work and money. Only if he can work in a somewhat fastidious manner.”

What a lot of assumptions here. There are many artists who deliver, deliver every month, and produce good work, who can’t make ends meet because the issue is not what people produce, the issue is what people pay for. Have you looked at comic sales? Most titles selling well under 10,000 copies. No money there.

At the end of the day no one will ever care how long it took you to make your art or if you met your deadlines. There are no Eisner awards for delivering a book on schedule. The art speaks for itself and lives on. Some of the greatest artists in the history of the world averaged one painting per year and produced maybe 30 images in their entire life. Comic Fanboys would have called them lazy.

Comic book fans are a little ridiculous. They’d rather have forgettable, mediocre junk on a monthly schedule (that they can complain about on the internet) than something of quality that took longer to make. It seems by Simpson’s own admission he wasted a ton of time, and that’s a large part of it, and maybe Image should have been better about judging the publishing schedule and not released the book until more of the series was complete. Maybe this should have been a graphic novel? But fanboys/retailers are also incredibly entitled with their expectations and armchair quarterbacking of how creators are supposed to work. Our reliance on the direct market, monthly shipping schedule also is to blame. It emphasizes scheduling logistics over quality and doesn’t allow for slower artists like Simpson and others to have a solid place.

Lets give the guy a break. There’s like maybe 20 people in the world making a “quit your day job” living solely from creator owned comics. Unless you’re on an A-list, big two book or enjoy living in poverty, comics is a professional side hobby for a lot of talented creators. As a parent I also remember that its something you can never fully prepare for. Dominates all your time and energy in a good way. Can’t wait to see issue #2!

” were able to deliver in a more timely manner”

LOL
Even if Nate delivered faster he’ll still have to wait for months til the Image royalty check arrives. What’s he gonna do while waiting? Feed his baby ramen?

His talent is acknowledged, he’s the lead artist of game studio that pays his monthly bills. And… Warners optioned his IP. If they greenlight production, depending on his deal with them, he’ll get potentially over $100K just for one comic issue.

Hi guys! Nate here.

The internet’s weird, isn’t it?

I thought this was a really well-reasoned piece. I’d like to add a little to what’s already been said.

A lot of times, I hear people referring to me as a “slow” creator for whom there is no sustainable business model in comics. Crazy as it may seem, I am actually capable of working quickly. In games, we have to turn around artwork at a breakneck pace. What limits Nonplayer’s release schedule are the ground rules for the book, itself. This is a zero-compromise project. I work on every panel until I can manage no further improvements. That’s what the book is, for better or for worse. Which means it’s also slow.

Would I like to try drawing a fast comic? Absolutely. Had I debuted as a monthly artist, would I have achieved any success in comics? I’m not so sure about that. The way things went, I got noticed due to the polish of this particular project. So that’s the project that’s moving forward.

To those who say that Image erred by not holding the first few issues until several were complete. I would just say that I never would have gotten through the second issue without already having the first one out in the wild. There’s only so long you can toil in a vacuum without input from the public. I am naturally self-critical, and I assume by default that everything I make is terrible. The positive feedback I received after the release of issue 1 was extremely helpful during the long years it took to draw #2.

The problem here is this: how do I make enough money to work on Nonplayer full-time? That’s the big unanswered question, the dimensions of which are well-described in this article. I’ve kicked around ideas ranging from Kickstarter to old-style patronage to illustrating comic covers. And of course, there’s always been the potential deus ex machina of something getting greenlit in Hollywood. There’s also the Brandon Graham method, where you write and art-direct a book like Prophet, and use your take from the monthly book to fund your other project. I am working on a similar project right now, in the hope that diversification will make it easier to move into comics full-time.

I have another idea that MAY work, but that announcement is still a little way off. I hope that it adds a new dimension to this conversation, and if it does succeed, I hope it offers a new avenue for other practitioners of slow-cooked art. This medium could use a few more Kubricks and George R.R. Martins, I think. Fast comics are awesome, but slow ones are too. We should have a big tent.

Thanks for the interesting discussion, guys!

-Nate

Looking up Nonplayer on the sales charts, I found that #1 had first month sales of 8,869. A second printing brought that number up to 14,825, so that Image royalty check was certainly not in the “quit your day job” realm.

Maybe part of the answer is that the labor side of the comics industry needs to organize itself.

On the flip side Nate Simpson’s recent day job seemed like a really cool gig. I want some of that! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/human-resources-an-apocalyptic-rts-game

I could understand the complaints if Simpson promised any sort of schedule, or solicited issues that didn’t come out. But he didn’t. The text page in #1 says that the first issue took a year to do, and the second will be out when it’s done. And he’s even being overly cautious not even getting the solicitations engine moving on #2 until it was done (this week we’re getting a new SANDMAN OVERTURE, two months late even from the revised schedule after earlier issues shipped late).

Would anyone’s life be better now if Simpson hadn’t released #1 three years ago? You’d have an extra $3 in your pocket.

Nate Simpson: Thanks for coming here and expanding on your comments and taking it all in stride. I met you after Nonplayer #1 came out at…ECCC maybe? Anyway, you struck me as a nice guy, and the book was and is beautiful.

Just to throw in something I was thinking about, there are “slow” artists who work at a normal rate but just wait until five seconds until the doomsday clock strikes to finish their work. And then are there actually SLOW artists such as Nate Simpson, Travis Charest, Jaime Hernandez and David Mazzucchelli who are slow in the sense that they really do take a long time to get things to their satisfaction and tear up lots of pages and constantly rework things. Given the results, there is nothing “wrong” with this except that you leave a very slim shelf of comics behind. And as Nate pointed out…you have to figure out how to make a living with this pace, which isn’t easy.

I’ll say 2 things that are maybe going to shock some people:

If any artist spend a year (or more) on 24 pages of comic he/she’ll have something that looks amazing. But most pro artists produce one finished page EACH day, 20 or 24 a MONTH. Comics are about telling stories and that requires a lot of pages so you need to produce those pages FAST.

And that leads us to the obvious answer about making a living out of comics: produce more pages and you can make more money. It’s not about the page rate it’s about how long it takes you to draw that page. You can make a living out of low page rates if you are smart/tricky/professional/organized and manage to produce faster AND better than the next guy. One idea: go digital. I do everything digitally and I improved my speed by at least 50%. There are a lot of other tricks and methods too.

Be creative and BE FAST.

Heh, “be good, cheap and fast.” That’s certainly the golden trifecta, isn’t it, JM?
Your comment obviously just goes back to what Joey said above. “Comic book fans are a little ridiculous. They’d rather have forgettable, mediocre junk on a monthly schedule (that they can complain about on the internet) than something of quality that took longer to make.”
Honestly, with guys like Nate Simpson, although his art takes a long time to produce, I wouldn’t necessarily call it slow. It’s just super detailed, and super clean. Both those things take MUCH longer to produce than something simple and sketchy. If he drew it faster, you just wouldn’t be getting the same thing.
I’d echo the sentiment that a comic that takes the form of a monthly pamphlet might not be the best publishing format for this type of approach to a story, but be that as it may, as think the art form is better off for having more work of this quality.

“what the hell does a straight white male know about these issues” Don’t let that qualifier stop you, right?

Let’s not have The Beat venture into the realm of mansplaining when it comes to trans issues. Are straight white cis-gendered males capable of bringing thoughtful insight to a civil rights issue? Yes. Is there literally anyone else more qualified? Absolutely.

When it comes to lifting voices on LGBT issues, maybe we can hear from those voices instead of someone else speaking for us.

Come on now, Chris, there was no need to force the “cis-gendered” label on him. But your comment raises some excellent points.

If a transgender or gay man speaks condescendingly, can it be considered “mansplaining,” or is that term reserved exclusively for straight white (cis-gendered) males? For that matter, when straight white cis-gendered females speak on LGBT issues, are they also, in effect, “mansplaining”???

Chris Williams: Agreed. I will note that I volunteered this article without prompting, so that’s all on me, and not Heidi or anyone else here at The Beat. I’m definitely not going to have the best perspective on this issue – but for a lot of people, I will remain the cultural touchpoint for it – and not because I wrote the article, but because I’m their comics retailer. This comic has come up, and will continue to come up, and unfortunately, I’m going to be the person a good chunk of people will talk to. This isn’t about talking over more important and relevant voices, but circumstance and, I think, personal responsibility to my customers, as I feel as though silence on the issue would be more damning than speaking, in this instance.

The idea that he can’t even publish an article is ridiculous.

I don’t even think this character was trans.

Were people getting upset? Is the issue so touchy that we have to be this careful? I mean… if we follow the same logic to other things, shouldn’t computer hackers get “upset” every time they are misrepresented as bad guys looking to take down “the system?”

If that’s the case, maybe we need some cool transgender comics to balance things out — so that the only time it comes up is as bad guy — I think if things were more balanced — things like this wouldn’t be noticed as much? Computer hackers are represented a variety of ways, so when one is untrue – or shows as a bad guy – it doesn’t “sting” as much – because it’s not the only representation.

Thoughts?

This story needed an apology from the creators. They obviously didn’t think it all the way through, like article writer Brandon Schatz has explained. While some will complain of political correctness hampering creative indulgences or even society at large, the fact is when you take a minority and demonize it , especially while a larger battle in society about said subject is going on, you are being stupid and/or a total jerk. Plain and simple. It’s surprising though considering how this comic was seemingly so socially aware. Guess not.

This wasn’t demonizing trans people. The character dressed up like Batgirl and do villainous things while wearing the costume to make her look bad.

I like how in this age and day its okay to maim, kill and ridicule straight white male characters but god forbid if you’ll do anything negative to any other character.

What happened to comics simply being about story told thru art and words?

They have nothing to apologize for.

If you also didn’t think an apology was necessary, then you are correct.

Unless Cameron Stewart is apologizing for being a secret transphobe, he didn’t need to issue an apology.

Furthermore, I’m tired of people thinking I’m smart just because I wear glasses.

STOP PREJUDICE NOW!!!!

“I like how in this age and day its okay to maim, kill and ridicule straight white male characters but god forbid if you’ll do anything negative to any other character.”

That’s because there are literally thousands of straight white heroes to balance having straight white villains. There are only a handful of LGBT heroes as opposed to the centuries worth of LGBT characters being cast as villains, both in stories and in real life. It’s still part of the whole “Look at him! He’s dressed as a woman! Isn’t he crazy?!” narrative.

Yeah, but — I mean — was he a Transgender? Or just some guy dressed as a girl up to nefarious purposes — I mean, there is a difference, right?

Actually, if he/she was a transgender – should refer to as “she.” But you get my point. Anyone?

@Kilroy, so are we going to treat all female and minority characters like sacred cows now till it “balances out”? I always thought that path to equality is to stop treating some specific group(s) as special.

Either way I’m reading specific issue of specific comic book title, why does it matter that there are lots of white characters and not many LGBT characters? It doesn’t make story stronger or weaker in any sense. As I said, comics aren’t about story told by art and words anymore, now you have to “balance things” and try to be politically correct. Its ridiculous that creative team has to apologize for making good Batgirl issue, because it didn’t portray LGBT character in positive light. After all story didn’t even acknowledge Dagger Type as LGBT character, he was just wearing variant of Batgirl’s costume.

If characters of a minority group have a history of being portrayed negatively, then it would be worth questioning whether it’d be good to add to this portrayal. So, within the portrayal of the minority it IS about balance. For example, if there’s a historical and current tendency to portray Islamic people as fundamentalists/terrorists, adding another muslim on a Jihad is not adding diversity.

I haven’t read this Batgirl comic, but I think Transgender, but even more so crossdressing characters have a habit of being portrayed as “unhinged men”. We don’t need another one of those.

That this character is not just a bloke dressed up as Batgirl to make her look bad, but was intended as a Transvestite or crossdressing person can be seen by the make-up: while you can still argue that the lipstick is done as part of the masquerade, the eye make-up would not have been necessary under the mask…

All this is not to say that there can’t be any baddies in minority groups, but any writer/artist would do well to avoid stereotypes and clichés, and to ensure that hero characters who should have an understanding about minorities also show this: Babs will have met with prejudice when she had a disability, so one can assume expect a more open mind from her.

Those who cry about PC Gone Mad and such should perhaps look at life from the pov of minorities before crying.

@Remco – I’m right there with ya. This isn’t about whether or not a trans character or a cross-dressing character is able to be a villain; of course they can. It’s about this representation joining the chorus of negative portrayals for those minority groups. While I get some people’s reaction that you can’t lay that all at the feet of this creative team; it’s certainly still worth discussing, right?

@Dylan Campbell – I think that’s what the heart of this discussion should be about. Not just how this creative team or this one comic represented trans characters, but how trans characters are represented (or not represented) overall. If any time I see a character that happens to fall within a certain subset of people, they happen to be the villain? That raises questions not just about how we view the character, but also the subset they belong to.

“Before we get into the bad, let’s look at the good. Marvel and DC continue to be the backbone of the industry.”

OK, I get what he was trying to say (that Disney’s and Warner’s comics divisions are still keeping the primary distribution-and-sales channels commercially viable, and it would pretty much suck if they didn’t) but the fact that it does rely on those two publishers is kind of the opposite of “good”.

“In an industry that’s worth $50 million on average, DC and Marvel account for two thirds of that revenue. ”

http://comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2014-10-08-13.08.47.jpg
Comic books @ comics shops: $340 Million
GNs @ comics shops: $170 Million
GNs @ book trade: $245 Million
Digital: $90 Million
Newsstand: $25 Million

My concern for DC: they have Vertigo 2.0 (with the new contract, which seems to have helped Image) and superheroes. Can a business survive with little experimentation or innovation?
My concern for Marvel: they have forgotten how to do licensed comics for kids. Where are the beginning reader comics for K-4? Where are the Disney XD comics? There should have been a Star Wars Rebels comic shipping the same month that Disney premiered the series. Where’s Phineas and Ferb (who HAVE co-starred with the Avengers on TV)? Gravity Falls? The Muppets? Frozen?

What happens if Marvel and DC suddenly stopped printing monthly comics? (Let’s say they go completely digital…)
Yeah, a lot of stores would be hurting. But I think some readers would be willing to try something else. I did that when my pull list exceeded my budget; I dropped almost all Marvel titles.
Would the industry collapse? No. Go look at what mainstream book publishers are printing every month. Go look at the titles showing up on the New York Times bestseller list.

@ Torsten,
If Marvel and DC suddenly stopped printing monthly comics? Yes, the industry would collapse because comic shops would collapse. There would be no more hobby market. The only outlet for those sales would be conventions and a few toys on a side aisle at Target. And Disney already looks like they’re experimenting with this in the form of Big Hero 6. They are doing their best to distance themselves from the original comic for a lot of reasons but one of the lessons they will learn is that they don’t need a printed comic to make a successful superhero film.

@Jason – I agree. It’s definitely the opposite of good. I interviewed Eric Stephenson a while back, and he had a line in the interview that perfectly encapsulates my thoughts on it, and I’m sure your thoughts.

“If I expanded on it there it’d have been a bit clearer, but having a Big Two is not a sign of a healthy industry. Any industry that is dominated by like two businesses – whether you’re talking about comics or anything – that means if one of those businesses goes down, you’re fucked.”

The rest of the piece I walked through how other publishers are raising the sales floor and making the whole current level more sustainable, and hopefully they bring it to the point where there’s more balance across publishers. That will take a while though.

@PRM – Thanks for answering Torsten in a far better fashion than I likely would!

You missed Identity Crisis.

@Chris – I actually intentionally didn’t include it. I decided to make the charts everything within the 2005-2014 10 year block. Arbitrary, sure, but I couldn’t include EVERY event, so that seemed like a reasonable cutoff point.

The events are losing sales because, where they used to happen once a year, they now happen back-to-back and will likely soon start to overlap. They are essentially a line-wide team-up book whose title and numbering change every 6-12 months and the buyers are starting to understand that.

I also doubt regular comic publishing will disappear anytime soon for major characters like Spider-man, Batman, Superman, the Avengers, etc. The reason I say this is because comic writers and artists fall outside the guild/union standards and rules for the film industry, and so the Big Two get big ideas cheaply from the comics every month without having to shell out a dumptruck full of money to a Hollywood ideaman, scriptwriter, or storyboard artist.

“[T]his is not the chart you ever expected to see in the biggest sales month ever, with the Harley Quinn annual selling ealy 100,000 copies, Scott Snyder and Jock’s Wytches debuting at #18, and the new, Doc Marten’d Batgirl at #19. More teling to me—Skottie Young’s Rocket Raccoon is still selling 57,000 copies at issues #4″

Okay, some of that is definitely new. But Image titles of hot Big Two creators have sold as good or better before. Remember titles like The Darkness or BattleChasers: when hot Big Two creators do non-superhero stuff at Image, they have sold before, and to be honest I was expecting Wytches to hit higher than #18. And Batgirl at #19? Look no further than a couple of years ago, when Gail Simone made the title a top 20 hit month after month during the first year or so of the New 52.

Image has had a higher marketshare than this before, also. Again, look to the ’90s. I definitely agree that the company is putting out better comics than ever before, with a more diverse lineup as well. But sometimes I think people forget just how big Image (and Valiant, for that matter) were in the ’90s. This is hardly the first time another company has made significant inroads on Big Two territory. There were months in the ’90s when Image had a better marketshare than DC!

That’s not to shortchange the take-away messages of this article. There absolutely is something new going on, more than there has been in years. Yes. But not all of this stuff is so unprecedented.

Also, why you continue to ignore Deadpool is beyond me. His sales are spread over more titles, but he is obviously Marvel’s version of Harley Quinn and sells more merchandise than pretty much any other character created in the last 49 years.

>>>>Okay, some of that is definitely new. But Image titles of hot Big Two creators have sold as good or better before. Remember titles like The Darkness or BattleChasers: when hot Big Two creators do non-superhero stuff at Image, they have sold before, and to be honest I was expecting Wytches to hit higher than #18. And Batgirl at #19? Look no further than a couple of years ago, when Gail Simone made the title a top 20 hit month after month during the first year or so of the New 52.

Are YOU ACTUALLY trying to say that the comics market is the same now as it was in 1996 when The Darkness launched and 1998 when Battlechasers launched?

Look I wish it was the 80s again too so I could watch SNL when it was good too, but that doesn’t change the fact that times change.

Since the “One More Day” storyline retconned out of existence Peter Parker’s secret identity being revealed to the world in Civil War, didn’t that also disrupt the entire Civil War storyline? Wouldn’t it perhaps have wiped that storyline from existence? If not then Marvel will have to explain how and why not since One More Day essentially postulated that all of the Spider-Man stories after 1986 didn’t happen.

That is such a funny and dumb looking teaser (although the art is good).
Captain America and Iron man look like grade school kids.

“Spider-man is my friend! he’s playing with me!”

[…] revisiting some of its most popular line-wide events, including the recently announced Secret Wars, and now Civil War. What if it’s about a bunch of Marvel U civvies dressing up and gathering in the park for […]

[…] It turns out that Civil War tease Marvel sent out was just the prelude to the real blockbuster news: Robert Downey Jr. will play a major role in […]

[…] Fonte. […]

so next year we’re gonna have the “civil war” event (again), and the “secret war” event (again). two major events going on at the same time. i truly do not know what to make of this. the over-kill is mind-numbing, with cross-overs, tie-ins, one-shots , and mini-series tied to the events that they boast will be company wide , involving just about all their titles , when will this nonsense end? what will they do to top it? maybe they’ll just stop putting out regular solo stories of the marvel characters. maybe next year will start the “new normal” of just publishing year long events that involve the entire line. 2015: secret wars & civil war . 2016: the inhuman/mutant wars, 2017: age of squirrel girl, 2018: heroes switch genders. solo stories following a character’s life will be a thing of the past, in favor of having all the characters play their roles in the current company wide “event”. ugh!

[…] Fonte: Comics Beat […]

Thanks for reporting guys! I wouldn’t have this information without comicsbeat.

Disagree on nearly every point. JRJr draws excellent facial expressions in addition to being one of the best action artists in the business (that double KO panel alone would tell anyone that). He also did some innovative things like showing super speed by having Clark Kent’s body dissolving into streaks to reform as Superman when he’s leaving his apartment. I also like how he makes New 52 Superman’s awful costume look good. Only a handful of artists have succeeded at that so far.

Johns is also bringing back the characterization and plotting that made his previous Superman run so good. I’m interested in where this story with the Earth-based analogue for Superman will go. Two characters that started in the same place (metaphorically) whose situations are now completely opposite. It’s like doing a story where Superman finds out Krypton never blew up after all. A great idea.

It works as serialized comics because I bought this issue on the strength of the creators’ names and the story and art have convinced me to buy the next issue. I suggest anyone else who likes good Superman comics do the same. And for anyone who doesn’t want to buy full price comics there’s always waiting a couple months for it get to knocked down to $2 on Comixology.

“You’re going to read a lot of reviews saying how great Superman #32 is. A lot of those reviews will likely be written by people who also adored books like The Wicked + The Divine #1, a book absolutely full of great ideas and hidden meanings and lots of potential energy. Superman #32 has none of these things. So why would we call it good?”

Because they are each being judged based on what they are, which isn’t the same thing. It’s like evaluating The Hangover and Schindler’s List on the same meter. They have different storytelling goals and the structures. It’s good for *what it is*, which is corporate super-hero excitement.

So is this going to be a weekly column where author complains about some comic book that he didn’t like? Because otherwise it doesn’t really make any sense to pick up Superman #32 and hope for good “one and done” story.

I USE t o enjoy Johns writing, but I now (and I have posted this in other sites), I consider Johns the Michael Bay of comic books.

As for the JrJr’s art, I enjoy most of his stuff, but I have to state, his artwork was sloppy at best and the issue (yes, that is a pun) also shows how STUPID the armor looks.

What might not be too obvious to readers (and reviewers) who are picking up Superman #32 as a jumping on point is this: Johns is clearly trying to jettison most of the trash that built up from the previous issues. Jimmy Olson a multi-millionaire? Brooding Clark running a news blog? I think it’s pretty obvious that Johns really, really likes everything the pre-N52 Superman had going for him. Most of the issue is spent trying to reset the tone of Superman to be more in line with that. That can read as filler if you weren’t exposed to the last few years of Superman books. But if you have been exposed, the time spent on this shift is pretty necessary.

I was curious about JRjr’s take on Superman, so I flipped through a copy of this issue. Honestly, it did not grab me. But maybe I will like future issues, and purchase them… we shall see.

If you prefer books like Trees, Saga, Fatale, The Wicked + The Divine and Mind Mgmt, you wasted your four dollars. Paying that much money knowing that you probably won’t like it just so you can give it a bad review on a comics site really doesn’t make sense. Superman can be a polarizing character for a lot of people who read comics, sometimes you’re just better off purchasing that issue of Trees. You might not have been able to call it a bad comic online but you’d have gotten your money’s worth.

I looked at your Twitter feed and noticed that you ask people to check this piece out by saying that you “sass Superman” in it. I now see the point of your article.

The same problem exists for online consumers who have to put in their preorders months before getting a number #1 issue. Do I order number #2 when I haven’t even got number#1?

Unless something sounds utterly absurd, I tend to be very humble when making suggestions on how a retailer should do something, because I know I don’t know squat. But it does seem like some of the responsibility has to be passed on to the customers. To allude to what “me” says above, buying from Discount Comic Book Service, I have to order a couple of months in advance myself. So I know I’m taking on the risk – I have to order #3 before I’ve had a chance to read #1. It seems like retailers might have to get a little more formal with pull lists and feedback from customers on what they plan to purchase, and hold them to it.

The floppy market is doomed long term…trades and digital are going to end the comic store…it’s inevitable…so yes, DC and Marvel don’t give a crap about you…why should they? You are a middle-man in a declining industry and they will cut you loose the second they can.

Classic economics, aging customer base = death. And at $4 I don’t see a lot of teens in the local comic store…

Comics are growing, weekly comics stores are doomed…

@Alex – I don’t disagree with you entirely. The current model is flawed and broken, and the weekly comic store is a part of that. As for not seeing a lot of teens or new readers at you LCS, I’d say they might be doing it wrong. A comic shop isn’t necissarily a “weekly comic shop”, nor is your window into a store a good view of different stores… Or even THAT one. Some operate with digital and collected editions, and some make more money off of collections that floppies. Some use all aspects to grow a readership. It’s all a matter of choice and perspective. Either way, good shops will find the means to survive and serve.

One store has stopped stocking Marvel and DC monthlies, except for subscriber’s pull lists. They do most of their business as a bookstore, selling trades.

Some suggestions:
Offer an event package: Pre-order and pre-pay all of the event titles and get 20% off. Or… give the customer that 20% discount as store credit. The more the customer orders, the more money is placed on the card for future purchases. If they use the card, cool, you’re moving product. If they don’t redeem the card, you’ve made some money.

Push slaes of temporary series to digital.
Of course, this requires that the store have a website, and sell merchandise via the website. Of course, if it’s Comixology, then you’re letting the fox into the henhouse (Amazon can see EVERYTHING you sell). And your customer might cut you out of the picture and order directly. You can mitigate that by discounting the title, like I suggested above with the paper issues. Since it’s all pure profit, with no risk or inventory, you’re making money (after you pay your IT guy and hosting service).

You could even have a “no event” or “no gimmicks” policy in your store. If someone wants to read the series, they need to pre-order/pre-pay it. Or they can wait for the trade, but let’s be honest… how well do those event trades sell? Less headache, less risk, budget can be directed to more promising titles / merchandise.

If DC and/or Marvel cause you headaches, then work with the publishers who aren’t as frustrating. Open up new sidelines, and encourage new customers who don’t care about superhero events. (Start with local schools and libraries.)

@Torsen Adair – funnily enough, in my blue-sky thoughts about what kind of store I would run, I was thinking just that – focus on trades, and do the subscription-service on the side. Back issues through a door in the back, keeping them hidden and tidy.

(I had also envisioned Hooters-style girls working the floor with headpieces enabling them to talk to geeks working in the back to answer any questions, but that’s neither here nor there).

Mildly curious about the “IT guy and hosting service” – I would imagine that if any LCS is going to sell digital comics, it would be through Comixology, where all they would need is a PC and internet connection with which to communicate with Comixology to set things up with logos and whatnot for their storefront on Comixology – the store wouldn’t actually be hosting anything themselves…

“The floppy market is doomed long term…trades and digital are going to end the comic store…it’s inevitable”

Heh.

Y’know, for at least a decade I have positioned my comics store as a BOOK store — we’re EXTREMELY civilian-friendly, we strongly promote the book format work, and so forth and so on…. and you know what? We have exactly one book series that sells better than the periodical serialization in a time horizon of a year or less. ONE: SAGA (and that’s such a rare exception to about 20 different rules) — SAGA takes about 8 or 9 months to reach that level.

WALKING DEAD? It takes about 18 months for a trade to reach the same sales that the serialization reaches in the first month.

BATMAN? Three years in, and we’ve still not matched any periodical sale with book volumes.

There are, MAYBE, ten names in the business who would not sell more overall copies as a serialization than they would by doing an “Original Graphic Novel” first.

As for digital, clearly there are people who love it, but every piece of private and public evidence says that the market has just about plateaued for digital sales — just as it has for regular prose.

The fact of the matter is that the “super user” accounts for the largest percentage of periodical sales; and most “super users” are pretty anecdotally clear that they prefer print to digital most of the time.

I know that in my own store the rise of digital has done nothing but brought a rise in the number of people (including, YES, under-20s, women, readers of color, and so on) streaming in asking for the “real” versions of comics they read on line.

It would be ENTIRELY possible to destroy the periodical market though selling lousy product at too high prices that is all interconnected, but when you chase people away from the hobby in that manner those customers are NOT going to switch to digital or trades. They’re simply going to leave altogether.

There’s no sign (of ANY kind) that a significant number of NEW readers are being CREATED by digital — what we appear to be seeing is that you’re either getting channel migration (ie, switching from print to digital because of “space issues”, etc.), or people without a LOCAL comics shop moving to digital. But major metro areas with multiple quality comics stores? My periodical sales are up by almost a quarter from this time last year.

Periodical print comics are not going ANYwhere, because without them digital or TPBs would inevitably have to radically scale up in price.

Ask yourself this: why would ANY rational publisher want to give up a guaranteed sale that provides them with easy cash flow?

-B

Today, I wrote about how one big toy company’s disdain for the medium sized and small press outlets that cover them causes needless annoyance and ultimately, a scaling back of coverage. On that same note, Marvel not caring for the longevity of the local comic book shop will inevitably cause a negative reaction on some level, whether that be those shops forced to deal with Marvel in very drastic ways (perhaps an all or nothing policy) or, with no recourse but to continue playing the game, a slow scaling back of books ordered in favor of a more hobby shop atmosphere. A store has to do what they can to survive and if Marvel continually shows they don’t care about that survival, they will find their place in the scheme of things will be altered in a way they will have no control over.

“On that same note, Marvel not caring for the longevity of the local comic book shop will inevitably cause a negative reaction on some level, whether that be those shops forced to deal with Marvel in very drastic ways (perhaps an all or nothing policy) or, with no recourse but to continue playing the game, a slow scaling back of books ordered in favor of a more hobby shop atmosphere. A store has to do what they can to survive and if Marvel continually shows they don’t care about that survival, they will find their place in the scheme of things will be altered in a way they will have no control over.”

In this climate and the forced rising prices, would a group of local comic book shops ever stop ordering Marvel and DC and take a chance with just carrying independents for floppies-Image, Dark Horse, etc. It seems this system is fueling the uber-event mentality because it always seems like a logical ordering option ordering -wise, much like a bad/new Spider-Man #1 ordered at 545k. If they are going to bring down the floppie market this way, why not take a chance to control your destiny. Maybe its too risky but you can always carry that glut of corporate character product in trades in the back and bring the independents back out into the front. None of the corporate books are that good anyways. Just filler till the next event. Who has an itch to read Iron Man or Thor, seriously? Or 4 versions of X-men? And then have to find a place to store it. Fans and comic book shops should just nix event books in the bud like that silly Wolverine one just to show ‘em. It would be more fun to see Marvel and DC close up shop instead and stick with the movies. he comic book medium evolve to a better place and be more popular with the public and interesting again. That’s how the floppies could stick around, not just as wallpaper in LCS shops for milking addicitions to empty characters with bad stories.

The purpose of the local comics store is to service the needs of its customers. A retailer can’t simply decide not to order certain popular books. If readers decide to pass on these events books, retailers will end up ordering less, and the big companies might even decide to stop producing them. If people stop spending hundreds of dollars on exclusive store variants, the bigger retailers won’t order thousands of copies of a book just to have one.

This doesn’t mean, however, that a retailer can’t affect his customers’ reading habits by promoting and recommending books from the smaller publishers. I don’t feel the need to “hide” event books in the store I manage. They’re here for anyone who wants them. I just make sure to let people know (especially new readers) that I have a bigger variety of books to offer them and am always happy to help them find a book that is a good fit for them.

@Glenn:
I mean the whomever handles the website and computer needs of the store.
Someone has to post content to the website (and Facebook, and Twitter, and Google Plus, and…).
Someone has to design the weekly newsletter and manage the email rolodex.
Someone has to make sure that the e-store is running smoothly.
Someone has to make sure the POS and ordering systems are functional.
Someone has to talk with the hosting service to resolve problems.

THAT guy.

The weekly FOC is the best tool we have now, and here we don’t shelve books that deny that system. We’ll happily special order any weekly books for customers, and the strength of Batman has made us carry Batman Eternal on the racks for a limited time, but any title that denies us a decent period of time to track at least an issue’s worth of sales isn’t racked. The bi weeklies are risky enough, and weekly comics overstock gets to be wall insulation awfully fast.

This is a pretty fantastic marketing idea, I’m sure the next crop of creators releasing #1′s at Image are clamoring to get included in a deal with Loot Crate. This is better in some ways than the numbers retailers buy because these are at least guaranteed going into peoples hands unlike the stacks of unsold product continually feeding dollar bins that are ordered to get variants.

So, when Marvel prints these comics, will there be an ad for the Comics Shop Locator service?

Also, does Marvel’s advertising sales department have a special offer to advertisers, that when preorders hit 100K+, they include your ad in the issue, in place of a house ad? Were I an online retailer, I’d buy an ad which directs to a specific “Marvel Movie” homepage at my website, featuring ALL of the cinematic tie-ins for 2014 and previous.

P.S. Retailers:
Since the incentive to increase the order is so cheap ($50?), why not buy extra copies, slap a store sticker on the front (with a discount coupon), and hand them out at the local cineplex Thursday night/Friday?

Man, lemme tell you, movie theatres – at least non-independant ones – do not jive that that kind of promotion, in my experience. Some of the least helpful people to try and cross-promote with.

On one hand, if Loot Crate has a Diamond account, as one of the links contends, then I can’t see much for an asterisk as far as the Direct Market charts go — since historically they have always included sales to mail-order houses, and this seems to be a variation on that (though with huge numbers).

On the other hand, the original purpose of the DM sales charts — before the general public had access to them — was to tell retailers what their order levels were relative to the DM as a whole, and there, it does make the process more difficult on any book included.

There’s a history for these kinds of big purchases. Western Publishing made it a bit more difficult to see what the real (and really bad) sales situation was for comics in the 1970s, given its enormous purchases of Marvel and DC titles for its Whitman bagged-comic program. Those nonreturnable copies showed up as sold in the postal statements, even though quite of lot of the bags never got bought. Here, at least, we know consumers are getting the books.

“Much need for an asterisk,” that is…

Wasn’t there some kind of DC/video game related comic that sold huge numbers but wasn’t included on the charts? I’m not talking about Injustice or anything like that – I seem to remember it had big numbers but Marvel was crying about the validity of it since it was boosted by this very same thing. What am I saying – it’s Marvel. The PT Barnum of comics.

There have always been special orders here and there — just like comics that would have made the charts based on numbers alone didn’t because they weren’t sold into the Direct Market. GEARS OF WAR #1 would have had a claim on a high ranking in the last decade but for where it was sold, and the last million-seller in comics was Pokémon, due to the bagged editions Viz did in the mass-market.

The whole world outside the DM’s a relative gray area. Probably the highest-circulation comics I’ve written were the Mass Effect issues that were later reprinted for insertion in the video game boxes. No earthly idea how many of those exist.

“3rd or 4th month” – dammit, this site needs “edit”.

I suppose it’s not as bad when it happens with a #1 issue, as that one is generally inflated by all the people who just buy the #1 of everything. It’s not till about the 3rd of 4th month that sales are actually indicative of how much people like it.

Any retailer that increased their orders because of Marvel’s self inflated hype machine deserves to be stuck with 100 extra unsold copies.