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Three reasons. First, I like the idea of picking from all periods of Tardi’s career and this, being just his third graphic novel, nicely extends the range. (The one after that will be literally his most recent book.) Second, I like the fact that it’s so visually distinctive, and I like its historical importance as an early steampunk — or “icepunk” as I like to call it — work of comics. And third… well, the third reason I can’t actually tell you. It will become clear eventually.
Click for larger versions — you’ll want to!
7 Comments on Preview: The Arctic Marauder by Jacques Tardi — wow!, last added: 1/28/2011
Not to spoil it, but I suspect the third reason is that this story feeds into the Adele Blanc Sec continuity (it feels so weird to use that word in regards to Jacques Tardi books).
mario boon said, on 1/27/2011 6:55:00 AM
this is before Adele Blanc Sec, Robert.
Also a point of interest: Tardi drew this on scraper board in the mannerof the lost art of the old 19th century engravers. In fact he bought the engraving tools from an old engraver to make this comic which took him well over a year to draw.
ralph mathieu said, on 1/27/2011 6:55:00 AM
I’m looking forward to this! I just read Tardi’s WW I graphic novel, It Was The War of the Trenches (which was released here in the U.S. last April by Fantagraphics) the other day and it was amazing – one of last year’s very best!
Ben Towle said, on 1/27/2011 7:16:00 AM
I have the French ed. of this book and as I recall, Robert is correct: it feeds into the Adele stories. It’s gorgeous stuff.
Kim Thompson said, on 1/27/2011 12:36:00 PM
Oh, you spoilin’ bastards, you! Yes, Robert and Ben are correct, all the characters from THE ARCTIC MARAUDER suddenly pop up in the fourth ADELE book (therefore the second half our our second ADELE book),complete with an in-page plug for the book itself — a joke that would not have worked nearly as well if THE ARCTIC MARAUDER hadn’t been released beforehand. An amusing and delightful surprise for those Tardi fans who avoid this spoilerrific thread, ahem.
For similar reasons, we’ll have to do ADIEU BRINDAVOINE before we move on to the first post-WWI Adele stories (i.e. our third book), since HIS continuity then feed into ADELE.
Maclaine said, on 1/27/2011 12:45:00 PM
Thanks for posting this, Heidi. I got turned on to Tardi (say that three times fast) vie The Beat, and just bought You Are There last weekend at the very excellent Fantagraphics Bookstore here in Seattle. Can’t wait to pick this one up.
Ben Towle said, on 1/28/2011 8:38:00 AM
@Kim Thompson – I woulda kept my trap shut, but the cat was already out of the bag!
As you may have read, a gunman down in Panama City, Florida walked into a school board meeting, sprayed a V for Vendetta symbol on the wall, walked around with a gun, making a lot of statements, started shooting and eventually was shot by a deputy, then killed himself. (Reports differ on this, but the most credible reports are that he used his gun on himself.
This video is pretty unbelievable, especially the part where a woman sneaks behind him and whacks him with her purse. And gets worse from there.
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/16/2010 7:37:00 AM
This is so terrible and sad. You can tell that he was really only trying to scare them. If you really want to kill someone at that close a range, it’s far to easy. Unfortunately, events like this are a product of our times. With so much corruption and ineptitude in our system, more and more people are going to want a revolution. It’s just to bad that this man only saw the violence of V for Vendetta (and I’m speaking of the book, but he may have been thinking of the movie) and not the symbolism or tragedy of it. Those who use violence will only even find violence. He should have sought love. With love, only good things can be brought into the world.
I guess there was talk at first of it being a capgun, since he didn’t hit anyone…but you can clearly see his first shot that hit the desk blowing papers towards the wall.
The only thing that I find odd about the reporting of the story so far is that there’s video of him getting hit and going down, video of the officer who shot at him being consoled (officer: “I thought he’d killed you all!”), but no video in between where the shooter reportedly would have made the final shot on himself. Why would an officer who landed a few non-lethal hits on someone be more in need of being consoled than the people who were just shot at? Seems a little odd is all.
Kate Willaert said, on 12/16/2010 8:52:00 AM
Oops, correct: “I thought he shot y’all!,” while being reassured he did the right thing.
“This is so terrible and sad. You can tell that he was really only trying to scare them. If you really want to kill someone at that close a range, it’s far to easy. ”
Sorry, I don’t agree. I think he was working up his nerve, until he did the deed. It looks like he meant to hit someone. Guns and bullets are heavy, and there’s also recoil. He probably just missed. And even if he did only want to scare them, he succeeded enough for the officer to blast him.
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/16/2010 6:35:00 PM
Yes, I had considered those things as well. Watch him though. See how slow and methodically he moves. He wants them to see him take aim, feel the fear, get out of the way. I’m sure he went in there knowing he was going to die, but a man serious about killing other people would have done so. That lady with the purse might as well have thrown herself in front of his gone. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just giving my impression. I feel that we as a society are far to fond of making unforgivable monsters out of people in our minds. We parade them in front of our youth, to mold their young minds into thinking our way, when all they are, are mentally I’ll people who are misrepresenting a majority with their foolish actions. “See? We’ve got to get them, before they get us.” I’m not saying this is you Rich. I’m just saying that we don’t know. I feel sad for the people he hurt, more mentally than anything. I believe that was his intention. I feel sad that he felt it needed to come to that. He was wrong. He was wrong to put his death on that poor police man. He was wrong to through his life away like that, but I’m just not ready to brand him a killer.
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/16/2010 6:47:00 PM
Sorry for the typos. It’s been a really long day.
Justin Jordan said, on 12/17/2010 11:40:00 AM
“This is so terrible and sad. You can tell that he was really only trying to scare them. If you really want to kill someone at that close a range, it’s far to easy. ”
It really isn’t.
If you are trained, if you maintain your composure, then yes, it’s easy to hit somebody at that range.
But handguns aren’t just point and shoot weapons, as this aptly demonstrates. In a high stress situation, even people with training don’t find it easy.
This video demonstrates both sides of this. Dull failed to hit the man at point blank range, and accidentally fires a round into the floor.
The man who shot him, who is trained in the use of a handgun, fails to hit him with most of his shots from point blank range and when he does hit him, it’s not an immediately lethal wound.
Guns are, by their nature, extremely dangerous. But his failure to not what he was aiming for isn’t evidence that he wasn’t try to kill him.
When one of my favorites blogs, The House Next Door, began the Summer of '85 series of posts and asked for submissions, I decided to give it a try. I looked up a list of movies that had come out that summer to see if any were ones I could write about, and lo and behold, many were major films of my childhood. (One, Pumping Iron 2, was directed by George Butler, who lives a couple towns over from me and once took my father hunting with Arnold Schwartzenegger, or so my father claimed.)
Though I could have chosen many of the summer of '85's films to write about, one was so obvious I couldn't ignore it -- Rambo: First Blood Part II. I emailed House editor Keith Uhlich, and he said go for it.
I thought I might write 800 words or so. It got a bit longer than that. Despite the current length, the essay feels bare bones to me -- there's a lot more to say about Reagan and Rambo, about gender and masculinity, and about all four Rambo films together, because they're each quite different (First Blood is I think unquestionably the best film in terms of what most reasonable people think of as quality, and it remains utterly heartbreaking for me every time I watch it, but parts II and III are much more enjoyable, since they're closer to being superhero epics. The recent fourth part, just called Rambo, I've only watched once so far, but it didn't really do much for me -- Rambo beyond the 1980s just seems ... sad. Son of Rambow accomplished more.)
It's a thrill to see my byline on a site I read all the time and respect immensely, and I'm particularly pleased that I could appear there with this essay, which for obvious reasons for anybody who reads it means a lot to me -- it's the most personal thing I've published since the first Strange Horizons column I wrote after my father's death, a column that is also about my father and film, and mentions Rambo.
And now, for you loyal Mumpsimus readers, a special photo to accompany the essay -- this is me holding the MP5 I mention in the essay ... while wearing a Small Beer Press T-Shirt:
1 Comments on Rambo: Pope of the Church of the Holy Gun, last added: 6/29/2010
As you may know, in recent years, the Padres are scheduled to be on the road during Comic-Con, to alleviate congestion down by the Convention Center and probably so studios can rent out Petco Park for promotional events, like the 300 screening a few years ago.
However, as it turns out, the Padres are having “Comic-Con Night,” as a promotional vehicle the Friday before the con starts, on July 19, versus Arizona.
One wonders (or perhaps fears) just what kind of things will be going at the stadium? Comic giveaway with Heath Bell or Tony Gwynn Junior as superheroes? Guys in funny costumes (not counting the one pictured above) running around on the field between innings? Jim Lee throwing out the first pitch?
Only time will tell.
0 Comments on Jocks and Nerds mix so well together as of 1/1/1900
A few items we missed during down time:
AMC has greenlit a pilot for a WALKING DEAD TV series, based on the Robert Kirkman-Tony Moore/Charlie Adlard Image comics staple about a bunch of folks surviving in the Zombie Apocalypse. Frank Darabont will write, direct and executive produce. AMC is looking to boost its slate of original programming following the massive success of Mad Men, and greenlit another pilot at the same time. Let the casting suggestions begin!
Momoa stands at 6-feet 4-inches, so he has the height to fit the part. Seeing him as Ronon on Stargate Atlantis, he also has a lot of similar qualities such as wielding a sword, the hunger to kill people, and a real brooding physicality that is perfect for the role — not to mention he can look like he has been through some battles!
While Wikipedia notes that he has since cut off his dreads, Momoa seems to be uniquely suited to the role. Along with girlfriend Bonet, he has a child named
Nakoa-Wolf Manakauapo Namakaeha Momoa
so properly enunciating lines such as “Thulsa Doom, you will not conquer Nemedia!” should be no problem.
§ Word has been going around that Mark Strong, who played the cult leader villain in SHERLOCK HOLMES, is in talks to play the villain Sinestro in the upcoming GREEN LANTERN film. Strong certainly has the right facial structure for the job, and in HOLMES, he looked like a Kevin O’Neill drawing brought to life.
13 Comments on Studio coffee run: WALKING DEAD pilotized, Conan cast, Sinestro lurking, last added: 1/25/2010
I was going to email you about this, Heidi. Momoa went to the same Norwalk, IA high school as Brandon Routh, and given that they’re about two months apart in age they were probably the same graduating class.
So Superman and Conan from the same Iowa town.
Kate Fitzsimons said, on 1/22/2010 10:35:00 AM
Momoa is… actually pretty darn good, although the last role I saw him in was not very much like Conan, so I have no idea how he’ll be at it. (Yes, he did violence and occasionally did the Large Scary Man thing as Ronon Dex. What of it? He was a soldier from a modern world stranded in the wild, who was mostly a good-humored sort with a quiet, wry sense of humor. Not exactly a barbarian king!)
Rafael K said, on 1/22/2010 11:02:00 AM
Must be the water in Norwalk. Kinda like Rockwell, Leyendecker and A. Raymond all coming from New Rochelle… okay… maybe not. Momoa better start hitting the kettlebells before those swords rip his arms from thire sockets. This ain’t no Stargate: Atlantis, this is Cimmeria!
Wait… ah… his mother moved back to Iowa after he was born in Hawai’i. (While Norwalk is a small Iowa town, it is technically a suburb of Des Moines.)
not mike carlin said, on 1/22/2010 11:32:00 AM
Remember, kids, Conan’s author died 74 years ago, and this is still not in public domain.
Kate Fitzsimons said, on 1/22/2010 1:06:00 PM
Ow, *ow*, not mike carlin. Hit us where it hurts! Don’t remind me.
The Beat said, on 1/22/2010 1:09:00 PM
Wow incredible Iowa connections! The magic of the butter statues is STRONG.
Army of Dorkness said, on 1/22/2010 7:41:00 PM
Mark Strong is a great choice for Sinestro. Great for the film, I mean. Not great for his career.
I don’t remember who the other rumored actor was, but once Mark Strong was mentioned it is obvious that he is the better choice.
Bob Fingerman said, on 1/22/2010 8:35:00 PM
Really looking forward to seeing The Walking Dead on TV. It would make an amazing series. Love the comics.
Sphinx Magoo said, on 1/22/2010 8:50:00 PM
Looking forward to seeing Mark Strong in the magenta makeup! Hopefully the makeup will also retain the enlarged cranium. There aren’t enough enlarged craniums in movies nowadays…
Alwaysoptimistic said, on 1/23/2010 4:42:00 PM
Good for Jason Momoa, but I hope that the Conan filming won’t conflict with his role as Khal Drogo in “A Game of Thrones” if HBO picks up that pilot.
Charles Knight said, on 1/24/2010 2:58:00 AM
Jason Momoa ? He was regularly out-acted by the furniture on Stargate thingy.
Kate Fitzsimons said, on 1/25/2010 10:56:00 AM
Heh. Well, Charles, some people saw it as a subtle but surprisingly effective performance? But then again, it could be that the series leads tend to subscribe to the Large Ham school of acting. (Not that their hamminess wasn’t awesomely fun.)
From the moment Marvel sent out its DC-tweaking press release late on Wednesday afternoon, Siege-for-Lanterns is Topic A at BarCon and in private chatter.
Why? Why did Marvel turn the clock back to 2001-2, when Nü Marvel under Bill Jemas and Joe Quesada delighted in playing Scut Farkus to DC’s Ralphie at every opportunity — calling DC AOL Comics, and so on. Jemas also delighted in getting hostile with retailers. But in 2010, things with Marvel seem so be going pretty smooth with that whole Disney thing and all, so why now? Why such an aggressive in your face move here and now?
The move suggested that retailers were laboring so under the burden of having to order so many copies of lower selling Blackest Night tie-in books in order to get a few plastic rings that Marvel had to come to the rescue, offering a valuable SIEGE tie-in variant of their own. Adding insult to injury was that the returns had to be “stripped” — the covers torn off and mailed to Marvel. Defacing any comic is difficult for most of us, and the psychological damage of tearing apart stacks and stacks of Blackest Night tie-ins might have deep psychological repercussions for retailers.
Returnability in comics is rare enough these days. So why here, why now?
Comics Alliance rounded up some retailer reaction, and it was definitely more “Oh boy, a stunt,” than “Thank you Marvel for rescuing us from DC Blackest Night tie-ins!” especially given that the would have to destroy $200 worth of retail product — the SIEGE #3 Deadpool variant they got in return would have to sell for over $100 to make good on the deal. Here’s Andy Johnson of Cosmic Monkey in Portland, OR
“I think it’s completely obnoxious, but I also kinda love it at the same time. It seems like going out of your way to offend the other company, like a negative ad campaign… I can think of a customer that would want the variant, and it could be a nice way for some people to recoup on those unreturnable ‘Blackest Night’ covers, but it seems like poor sportsmanship. I actually wish Marvel would do something like this with their own titles, like ‘Dark Reign,’ because we seem to have a lot more problems with them than the ‘Blackest Night’ tie-ins. With the economy the way it is, it would be better for companies to focus on quality products than creating hype.”
We talked to one of our retailer pals, who suggested that some retailers were planning to buy MORE of the DC books in order to get the Marvel variant, so sort of a backfire there. This retailer also suggested that the whole thing was purely meant to be a funny dickish move. “Most the retailers I know either chuckled or rolled eyes and moved on — some are going to get a lot of money for the Marvel variant and potentially buy more DC 2nd prints.”
Talking to some of our other inside the beltway correspondents, however, and at DC itself, the mood was more “Who and why??!!” Some people wondered if such a bold, aggressive move wasn’t part of a scheme to find out what retailers were ordering from DC — although perhaps
17 Comments on Siege-for-Lanterns: So just why is Marvel all up in DC’s grill, anyway?, last added: 1/18/2010
Putting out the rings is really no different than asking retailers to buy extra copies of books (extra copies they will never sell) in order to get variant covers.
The ring promotion has been a great success with customers. Grown men and women going crazy over a set of cheap, plastic toy rings is just redonkulous.
Brevoort pretending to be all “We’re saving the retailers from their own stupidity” is indeed a return to the Jem@$$ era.
Ken B. said, on 1/15/2010 11:39:00 AM
I liked Brian Hibbs line from his column:
“Finally, I kind of resent that we have situations like “Captain America: Reborn” being spoiled by its shipping late, where I think retailers have a legitimate right in asking for returns, and were rebuffed. Or things like the “Giant-Sized Hulk” fiasco where a book solicited as a softcover, instead shipped as more expensive premiere hardcover, which they also refused to take returns on.
And yet they’ll take DC books back from us now.”
Evie said, on 1/15/2010 11:44:00 AM
I don’t have much to add because I both love it and hate it for reasons that everyone has expressed, but I will say this: that Hitler meme just does not get old.
Todd VerBeek said, on 1/15/2010 11:58:00 AM
Hmm… what….? Rings… stripped books…?
Did I miss something of interest here…?
I didn’t think so. Hey, everyone… I just picked up “Lola: A Ghost Story”, a great-looking book by J. Torres Elbert Or, from Oni Press!
Torsten Adair said, on 1/15/2010 12:28:00 PM
Heh… DC could really slap Marvel in the face by:
1) shipping everything when and how DC said they would,
2) take returns for everything they got wrong, and
3) rubbing Marvel’s face in the wet spot and yelling “Bad Dog!” whenever Marvel fails to correct their mistakes by accepting Marvel’s returns for DC credit, making a nice big display at NYCC or CCI of those returns, and then donating those books to libraries and schools for a nice tax deduction and PR.
Jim Caldwell said, on 1/15/2010 12:52:00 PM
Hmm… what….? Rings… stripped books…?
Did I miss something of interest here…?
This coming from the man who was so disappointed by DC’s Genesis crossover mini that he mailed them back to DC’s top three execs in standard business envelopes?
KET said, on 1/15/2010 1:04:00 PM
“Beltway”? So this cottage industry is equivalent to Washington DC now?
As usual, Marvel’s marketing department gets the last laugh, and all the whiners get is bupkiss.
EJ said, on 1/15/2010 4:14:00 PM
“We heard from a number of retailers who got stuck with books chasing rings and decided to do something. We’re not making any money on the deal, but we are helping our retailer partners during a tough economic time. Making sure that our retailers can keep the doors open if they tied up a lot of cash on inventory they can’t move. We’re doing this because we’re in the business of selling content rather than Cracker Jack prizes. And we need retailers to be able to keep the lights on and afford to order next month’s books. [Marvel won’t be accepting trade-ins for unsold Dark Reign and The List books] because there, what we were selling and what the retailers were buying were the books. But DC can if they want to! Retailers ordered those books for the content–that’s part of the job, knowing your clientele. I think smart retailers know how to gauge the interests of their clientele most of the time and order appropriately.”
You know i’ve read alot of bs on the internet over the years but this statement right there has to top the list. The idea that retailers got stuck with these books is laughable, all of these ring issues sold very well so well that most of them have second printings blowing this myth that overoders left shops with inventory that they can’t move.
Secondly, I had no idea that a couple of cool plastic rings would have grown executives so butthurt over at Marvel that they would get their little mickey mouse panties in a bunch and come out with a bitch move like this.
The fact is that Marvel just showed their hand instead of hyping up their big event which is going to take over the charts in the next few month, they instead chose to go at DC’s huge event proving that Marvel can’t take getting their ass beat on the top of the sales charts even when they are still selling more product overall.
Simply put DC isn’t the one who’s event Captain America Reborn flopped and is losing tons of readers issue to issue, they are not the ones who flopped with this Dark Reign non-sense that people cant’ wait to end. No they are the one’s who are doing events right and not only giving people a good book but with the ring promotion giving lesser books a boost in sales, I really hope that DC returns the favor so they can expose just how badly the current Marvel gimmicks and crap storylines have failed with even their most devoted zombies.
Todd VerBeek said, on 1/15/2010 6:58:00 PM
“This coming from the man who was so disappointed by DC’s Genesis crossover mini that he mailed them back to DC’s top three execs in standard business envelopes?”
No, that was a man at least 10 years younger than me, who was foolish enough to buy that kind of crap whenever it was put it front of him. I’m not sure whether to be flattered or concerned that his little protest way back then made such an impression on anyone.
Joe S. Walker said, on 1/16/2010 6:58:00 AM
“Defacing any comic is difficult for most of us, and the psychological damage of tearing apart stacks and stacks of Blackest Night tie-ins might have deep psychological repercussions for retailers.”
On the other hand, it might do them good. Perhaps Free Comic Book Day should be replaced with Destroy-A-Comic Day, with competitions for the most fun and inventive ways to do it.
Adam Lugibill said, on 1/16/2010 9:07:00 AM
“Defacing any comic is difficult for most of us, and the psychological damage of tearing apart stacks and stacks of Blackest Night tie-ins might have deep psychological repercussions for retailers.”
That’s one of the most ridiculous sentences I’ve ever read on this blog. As retailers, we have to destroy comics every other week or so when we do damage and overage returns. I’ve never hesitated to strip a cover off of anything. Honestly, I think it’s fun to tear into the things.
It’s just comics. It’s just product.
mark coale said, on 1/16/2010 1:03:00 PM
the great thing about a mass-produced product is that if something happens to one, you can just get another.
mario boon said, on 1/17/2010 4:54:00 AM
“It’s just comics. It’s just product.”
And this mentality is why non-Marvel or DC comics struggle to survive.
Denny Connolly said, on 1/17/2010 10:47:00 AM
“And this mentality is why non-Marvel or DC comics struggle to survive.”
That has nothing to do with this argument or the point Adam was making, Mario. His point is that retailers are required to destroy product on a weekly basis, so acting like it is sacrilegious is silly.
As a small comics publisher and a retailer, I think that you are off on this. Plus, on a side note, destroying small press comics is something that we are almost never asked to do. I don’t mean to snap at your point, but Adam and I are both retailers who work at an incredibly indie friendly store. We carry tons of small press books and do whatever we can to help cartoonists trying to break in.
Dan Merritt said, on 1/17/2010 1:40:00 PM
Smart retailers don’t have a dog in this fight.
We took pre-orders for the tie-ins and tied the sales to the rings for free.
All pieces accounted for, sold and 100% of our customers are happy.
BTW, all of the profits from incentive variants sold through the month of January at Green Brain Comics will be donated to benefit the survivors of the Haitian earthquake.
John Spert said, on 1/17/2010 5:25:00 PM
How exaggerated does a remark have to be in order to be recognized as sarcasm? Apparently more so than Heidi’s comment about stripping covers. Sheesh!
Brett said, on 1/18/2010 8:01:00 AM
That video was great!
You know, this whole Marvel accepting DC returns is really all about Joe Quesada getting his Mickey Mouse panties in a knot because Green Lantern — GREEN LANTERN — is beating the shit out of Marvel titles that once dominated the top ten sales charts.
Seriously, both X-Men and Spider-Man were the hot buzz books for years and years before Joe Quesada took over. Now, X-Men has become a caricature and Spider-Man still retains the godawful stink from the single worst Spider-Man story ever told in the entire history of the character — the Joe Quesada OMD — a story that created a stink so bad, the stenc still lingers two years after the fact.
For those who can’t really see — here it is: Marvel’s been beaten, slammed by the Hal Jordan Green Lantern — a character who many clamed was old, stale, outdated and irrelevant for years.
If the outdated and irrelevant Hal Jordan Green Lantern can give Marvel’s Spider-Man and X-Men a slap in the face hard enough to get Marvel Execs all up in a tizzy, what then does that say about the quality of Marvel Comics?
Yeah, Joe’s panties are in a knot. Next time though, he may want to try quietly using Summer’s Eve. We can still smell him coming a mile away but at least if he douched in private, he’d make less of a public spectacle of himself and the company he helms.
With underpants bombs making headline everywhere, a look at similar comics themes of groinal aggression have hit a few blogs. Comics Alliance examines a Punisher action figure from Toy Biz who is so glad to see you he’s going to blow you to kingdom come with a giant ground to air missile launcher emerging from his junk. Was such a figure a joke or really offered for sale to the nation’s youth? A comment reveals Frank-en-killerweenie was in fact part of a shape-shifter line sold at Toy-r-us and the killer rocket was a merely a transitional –but memorable–stage for the shape shift.
Meanwhie, Topless Robot presents 16 Incredibly Impractical Superhero Costumes — the full list is well worth perusing — but we’ll confine our attention here to Codpiece who sports a similiar crotch rig, with a similar danger of loin-bursting recoil.
Jesus Christ, look at him. If you can’t tell what’s impractical about this costume, you’re either not a guy or don’t live in a place we like to call reality. This bazonkers costume traces back to Codpiece’s even more bazonkers origin story; basically, when this dude was in high school he asked out a girl who rejected him on the grounds that he wasn’t “big enough.” Now, she meant his height, but he took it as a blow to his manhood, which drove him crazy because there was no way for her to know that he was a few quarters short of a dollar. This self-conscious attitude continued to haunt him his entire life, to the point where his doctor suggested he get counseling and he took offense to getting his head “shrunk.” Instead of investing in an expensive car, he decided to hell with subtlety and went straight for blatant overcompensation.
While Rob Bricken is as hilarious as usual in his analysis, he does fail to mention that the character originally appeared in Doom Patrol #70, by Rachel Pollack, Scot Eaton and Tom Sutton, so it was quite probably that the issues inherent in strapping a big gun to your dingus were apparent to the creators involved. If you want to go the full monty of psychoanalysis, you might even recall that writer Pollack is transexual.
Head Injury Theater has a more thorough write-up on Codpiece, and is similarly alarmed by the story, even though it’s clearly written with a knowing eye (As the splash page shows, it’s also a nod to THE CRYING GAME, a film in which a man unwittingly dates a transexual.)
Looking at all this, one can’t help but regret that Vertigo and DCU characters don’t cross over, as Codpiece could have served many useful functions in 52, Countdown, or any of the Crisis books. Grant Morrison, why have you forsaken us?
As long as we’re on the topic, let’s salute Tom Savini’s Sex Machine from DUSK TO DAWN:
11 Comments on Spotlight on: putting things that explode near your junk, last added: 12/31/2009
Is that a thermonuclear device in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Frank Castle, AKA “Needle Prick”
Sometimes a gun is just a gun…
New from Johnson & Johnson… KY Gun Oil!
“Excuse me while I whip this out.”
And just how do you cock the gun (or is it gun the cock?) on the Punisher toy?
No! No! I want an Official Marvel Shape Shifters Punisher Power Pistol Action Figure!
You’ll go blind, kid. Ho. Ho. Ho.
cary coatney said, on 12/30/2009 11:30:00 AM
All any aspiring comic book writer on the West Coast has to do is look in the center of the LA X-press weekly newspaper for codpiece inspiration.
~
Coat
Synsidar said, on 12/30/2009 1:51:00 PM
Back in the late ’90s, a Wall Street Journal article had a front-page article on cell phones, and how having the latest, smallest phone made a guy better than those with older, bigger models. I was going to contrast that, subtly, in my newsletter abstract with the usual male concerns about penis size, but the department supervisor nixed it.
Nerds who get their thrills and status from owning equipment might not care about their physical equipment.
SRS
The Beat said, on 12/30/2009 2:06:00 PM
I am a little saddened that a post on children’s comics generates a flame war that goes on for a four day holiday weekend, while a post that contains the phrase “groinal aggression” can barely manage 3 comments. Where are the firebrands of my youth?
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/30/2009 8:47:00 PM
Why is it sad? This post is funny. Here, we’re laughing at people’s lack of four-thought. In the other post we debating (and I feel we were all very civil about it, at lest last time I checked) whether or not the producers of said material were being irresponsible as artists. I do believe that anything goes in art , humor, or drama, (”bad” words, nudity, violence) as long as it is portrayed in an honest and responsible way. It’s a point I feel is maid rather eloquently, here… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDUCmTqzME
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/30/2009 8:49:00 PM
Oh wait, I just re-read your post and realized you were talking about a different post. I didn’t check out that post, and at this point, I’m just plane afraid to. Sorry. HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/30/2009 8:51:00 PM
At least now you’re up to 7 posts.
Alex said, on 12/30/2009 9:05:00 PM
That codpiece book seems better than the Bible. Geez! Good stuff!
michael said, on 12/30/2009 9:22:00 PM
Sex Machine was pretty funny in that movie and is/was Rachel a boy or girl now? O.o
Also, even more disturbing about that Punisher toy is one of the actual final ‘transformations’ that he apparently takes, as the ‘weapon’ in question seems to come from his behind as he’s bending over at a contortonists’ agility, but really either way, it’s a kid’s toy…and the weapon is either his penis or ass-canon!!! O.o
Cory said, on 12/30/2009 10:48:00 PM
Maybe this toy is where the idea for the “FrankenCastle” storyline came from.
cp
Caged Wisdom said, on 12/31/2009 8:00:00 AM
Michael - I believe, looking at the toy’s box, that the finished product can only be described as a taint-cannon.
She’s even more violent than in the comic.
It will be interesting to see the audience and critic reaction to this.
Glenn Barbis Jr. said, on 12/22/2009 8:24:00 AM
I love the fact they used ‘The Banana Splits’ theme!
Matt Bernier said, on 12/22/2009 8:51:00 AM
Girl knows her knives. I wonder how Benchmade manged THAT product placement?
Jimmie Robinson said, on 12/22/2009 9:20:00 AM
Yeah, nice product placement.
In the comic she used blades more than guns, so she does know her knives.
Cary Coatney said, on 12/22/2009 12:01:00 PM
I shudder to think what would have happened if she had gotten a puppy for her birthday.
~
Coat
BradyDale said, on 12/22/2009 12:38:00 PM
This preview has taken over my life. All I want to do is watch it over and over.
How did I not know about this comic?
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/22/2009 5:35:00 PM
I’ve got nothing but love for Mark, (I’m a fan of his) but it seems wrong to put this in a movie. Yes, some people will understand the joke, but a lot of young girls are going to see this, presented the way it is, and think that it’s some new blueprint on how to behave. What’s that you say? Well, it is rated R! When has that ever stopped anyone. I don’t know. I’m sure it’ll be a great movie, but it just seems like another thing trying to be bigger, louder, and more offensive, while I try and teach my young students, and my daughter how to appreciate 1) Quality of information 2) Leisure to digest it, and 3) The right to carry out actions based on what they learn from the interaction of the first two. (a gold star to the fist person who can tell me where I got that from) Young people have no problem carrying out actions, but based on the fist two things? That’s the part that’s hard to teach in this world of media, bludgeoning them in the face. It seems irresponsible. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong. I just want people to think about these things before they rush out to spend their money. Will I be unpopular for saying this? Go ahead. Shout me down. Just, please, give it some thought.
Cheese said, on 12/22/2009 7:42:00 PM
It’s been interesting seeing the reactions to this from around the web, from Reddit’s cautioned “Oh my monocle!’ types dicussing how bad it is for little girls (who shouldn’t be in a R-rated movie anyways) to AICN’s 1,500 page discussion on how pedo-tasitic is is.
Marcus Lusk said, on 12/22/2009 9:26:00 PM
Christopher Moonlight, you are SO on the nose.
Anyone who thinks this crap is a good thing is either A) not a parent or B) not a very good parent. The fact is an R rating doesn’t mean a damn thing today, when movies can eventually be accessed on a freakin’ cell phone. There’s no keeping this stuff from reaching those little eyes and ears that frankly deserve SOME measure of protection in this fucked up cultural meltdown.
michael said, on 12/22/2009 9:30:00 PM
with these movie previews I may have to check out the comics soon! O.o
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/22/2009 9:43:00 PM
“Oh my monocle!”
What’s that? Some sort of label and dismiss tactic for people who don’t want to be made to think or be accountable?
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 12/22/2009 9:59:00 PM
Thank you Marcus. That measure of protection we need is called education.
“You don’t have to burn books to destroy a culture… You just have to get people to stop reading them!”
-Ray Bradbury
Michael, I think it would be a far better thing to just read the comic. A person can take their time with a comic, understand it’s nuisances, walked away from, come back to, while a movie can only drag you along, and hit you over the head, if it wishes to do so. Don’t get me wrong. I love movies. Horror is my favorite, but a good movie, an honest movie is the hardest thing to get write out of all the story telling mediums. A good story is always honest. That’s why I have no problem with a movie like The Shinning or The Exorcist. They are understands of the truth, using fictional events and images.
josh said, on 12/25/2009 12:42:00 PM
I think the overall point is that this movie is NOT for little girls or any children. Just because children may by chance see R-rated movies does not mean they should stop making R-rated movies. How many countless horror movies have children killing people in insanely violent ways? Please.
According to handouts at this weekend’s Big Apple Con, next year’s show is being held October 7-10 — the exact same dates as the long announced New York Comic-Con.
Accidents do happen, but it’s pretty incredible that the only date available for the Big Apple show was…the same dates as the second-biggest show in the US?
Is that even feasible?
Industry observers are already reacting with shock to the announcement. In a huge market that clearly loves comics, a spring or summer date would make a lot of sense. But going up against another, established show that has a great deal of good will on its side seems…well, odd. The idea of exhibitors and guests having to choose between two concurrent shows is also…mind boggling.
With so many non-comics-related media guests, some commenters have speculated that Shamus’ shows would try to avoid direct competition with conventions like NYCC or Comic-Con International in San Diego by virtue of offering less of a comics focus (a view supported by promotional newspaper stories hitting this past week). However, with a four-day show planned at the same time as next year’s expansive NYCC convention (this years’ Big Apple show runs Friday to Sunday), it appears as though Shamus and company will attempt to at least capitalize on the reputation of NYCC, if not directly try to steal some of the shows thunder.
Developing.
33 Comments on Breaking: Big Apple to go head to head with New York Comic-Con next year, last added: 10/20/2009
In this corner, REED, in the other, WIZARD. Fight… FIGHT!!
Kelson said, on 10/16/2009 3:02:00 PM
Hmm, Anaheim is scheduled for the same weekend as C2E2, Big Apple scheduled for the same week as NYCC…I think a pattern is emerging.
Alexa said, on 10/16/2009 3:04:00 PM
Well, Marvel and DC will be at NYC– in fact, since only Avatar is making a showing at Big Apple this year, I’d say that all the publishers will opt for NYCC. Not to mention, NYCC gets you into NYAF, plus NYCC will have more of a “big media” presence. So I’d say Big Apple is well on it’s way to returning to its “church basement” roots.
Sean D said, on 10/16/2009 3:09:00 PM
Oh…this will be fun.
mike. said, on 10/16/2009 3:13:00 PM
I thought we knew this already? Or did I just assume?
SpyBoy said, on 10/16/2009 3:13:00 PM
What a ridiculous distraction. Hopefully, Shamus’ midlife crisis will be over before then.
Bill said, on 10/16/2009 3:20:00 PM
This is indeed a disturbing universe.
Brian said, on 10/16/2009 3:21:00 PM
God help the civilians that try to get to NYCC but accidently wind up at the Big Apple Con.
Torsten Adair said, on 10/16/2009 3:27:00 PM
Four days next year in October? How do you make that work?
I’m a big comics fan, but there was no reason for me to take off today to go to Big Apple. Judging by past Big Apples, I’ll spend just one day, Saturday, at the show.
Whereas NYCC hosts the ICV2 Conference on Thursday, then opens the exhibitor space for a trade show Friday morning along with retailer and library panels.
Not only will most publishers be exhibiting at NYCC (a good chunk of revenue for Reed), but most retailers as well. (80K vs. 20-30K attendance)
Publishers can practice “shuttle diplomacy” by commuting talent between the shows (not that far away from each other on Twelfth Avenue) and keeping both organizers happy.
Oh… and NYCC is using the ENTIRE Javits Center next October.
Ed… about that “fight”… didja ever see that cartoon called “Bambi Meets Godzilla”? I won’t spoil the ending, but you can watch it on YouTube.
Charles Skaggs said, on 10/16/2009 3:34:00 PM
And because of this and New York Comic-Con, Mid-Ohio-Con in Columbus ended up being kicked back into the chillier month of November. Thanks a whole lot, guys…
Synsidar said, on 10/16/2009 3:42:00 PM
In case anyone’s wondering how big Reed Exhibitions is in the convention business:
Every year we run over 470 events in 37 countries, bringing together over 7 million active event participants worldwide. With over 2,700 employees in 38 offices around the globe we serve 44 industries worldwide.
ed said, on 10/16/2009 3:52:00 PM
Torsten— yup, seen that! Not quite of a fair match-up, for sure. (But have you seen “Bambi’s Revenge”?)
Can’t wait for the Comics “Scrapple in the Big Apple” Conmeggadon come Oct 2010: maybe WIZARD/Shamus can show it live at a BIG APPLE CON wrestling ring… REED will be featuring the XBOX/PS3/Wii game demos at NYCC… while CCI can announce the Hollywood film adaptation at next year’s SDCC!
;)
Jimmie Robinson said, on 10/16/2009 4:09:00 PM
Hmmm…. what may be my first trip to the New York convention scene in 2010 is ending up as quite a smash. I am sure the side-by-side BEAT pictures will tell the tale.
Torsten Adair said, on 10/16/2009 4:10:00 PM
HAR! “match-up” “Bambi’s Revenge” !
And… Penny Arcade can do a week’s worth of strips, live at NYCC!
I guess Baltimore Comic-Con saw this coming, moving to August. No SPX MMX dates yet.
Kelson said, on 10/16/2009 4:13:00 PM
I’m not really familiar with the layout of New York, but if I got the addresses right, Google maps shows the two locations are barely a mile from each other. That’s closer than my hotel was for San Diego this year, and I walked that twice.
The idea of two comic cons within walking distance of each other just screams redundancy to me. On the other hand, maybe they can make it work on the “auto mall” principle.
Matthew Craig said, on 10/16/2009 4:36:00 PM
Come to Brum!
//\Oo/\
michael said, on 10/16/2009 4:39:00 PM
way to go, jackass!!! *rolleyes*
Mark Bourne said, on 10/16/2009 4:59:00 PM
I wanted to go to my first NYCC in 2010 and from what I’ve read/seen it seems like a nice throwback to what CCI used to be. I’d choose that over the glitz of Wizard anyday.
Sean said, on 10/16/2009 5:22:00 PM
They’re worst than Aman Gupta!!
Brian said, on 10/16/2009 8:04:00 PM
Sean Says: They’re worst than Aman Gupta!!
Bloody brilliant!
Glenn Barbis Jr. said, on 10/16/2009 8:05:00 PM
Shameless…oops, sorry, Shamus…is banking on people “mixing up” the conventions and going to his pony show, rather than the real one. Next will come the “Do our show or we won’t put you in our Top 10 or give you advertising space.” But then, with the internet, does Wizard the (loosely called) Magazine really amount to much anymore?
Con-flict: Big Apple vs. NYCC — FIGHT! « S said, on 10/16/2009 8:51:00 PM
[…] Comic Book Resources and The Beat both noticed something interesting in the program for this weekend’s Big Apple Comic Con: the dates for next year’s event. It’s going to be October 7-10, 2010 — the same weekend as the larger, well-regarded New York Comic Con. […]
Jamie Coville said, on 10/16/2009 9:01:00 PM
I think Shamus is really, really pissed about the Chicago show potentially “stealing away” the crown jewel of his once mighty organization. This is just backlash.
Alan Coil said, on 10/16/2009 10:09:00 PM
Shameless may be counting on people getting the wrong show (as noted above), but once you discover you are in the wrong show, I think it highly unlikely that you could get a refund.
Gary Dunaier said, on 10/16/2009 10:16:00 PM
Here’s something interesting from Lance Festerman’s blog…
—–quoted material begins here—————————————–
Friday, October 16, 2009
A Difference In Styles……NYCC Booted From Big Apple
Just got a call from the NYCC crew (Larry, Mark and Tonya) that the Wizard people kicked them out of Big Apple Con! Too funny. They had a whole bevy of security guards escort them out. Wow. Little different than the last few years when Joe Yanarella, Adam Tracey and the Wizard crew would come to NYCC and we’d have a nice chat, catch up, be professional and then they’d hang out and see customers…..
To be fair, Peter Katz of Wizard did hand them cash to refund the ticket cost. Classy.
So why were they so afraid of having some NYCC staffers there?
The conventions really are very close to one another if Big Apple stays at Pier 94. 20 blocks - its a 15 minute walk. Super easy. And if it all comes to pass, this will be a boon for the those unsung conventioneers - food cart vendors. I’m telling the korean bbq guys here in Jersey City to make sure they get themselves a spot down there. Kimchiadilla! (exactly what it sounds like, and delicious)
From a standpoint of capacity, even with the full Javits at their disposal, NYCC will likely be packed (factoring in NYAF too), and nothing is going to change that. The WW show could conceivably fill up just from spill-over, bringing total New York attendance to 100k plus.
I predict the clouds will part, trumpets will sound, and we will witness the second coming of Kirby at 2:30 on saturday, during that moment when Johns is talking with folk at the front of the room right after the DC panel ends and the convention staff are trying to clear the room before the Marvel panel begins while Bendis and Quesada are waiting outside.
Points for a ponder:
1. NYCC (the Reed convention), I feel has gotten better and better each. They can’t make everyone happy, but they really do seem to listen to the input they get and try to alter plans from there. WW cons do not seem to get better. Philly this year was a shadow of what it was two years ago.
2. I doubt I can afford two separate passes. And I’m already thinking about buying my NYCC ticket, because I can buy it now.
3. JIMMIE ROBINSON in NY!
Michael said, on 10/16/2009 10:45:00 PM
If I was Reed, I would make nice to all those creators who couldn’t get tables in previous years and ensure that NYCC has the best guest list ever. Find out the cheapest cost per table, go back and look at those unfulfilled waiting lists from previous years and get those people in right away! Because they will happily set up at Big Apple if they can’t get a spot at NYCC or, worse, if their emails are ignored.
Reed - here’s your chance to really up your game. Get your staff in tip top shape, answer emails ASAP, get your artist alley full up, focus your show on the creators and have the largest guest list of COMIC creators ever. Only that will show up Big Apple and only that will ensure that they learn not to take on the new kid on the block.
Because the last thing Reed needs right now is bad publicity from creators who can’t get into NYCC. Don’t turn into San Diego when it comes to that.
Lance said, on 10/17/2009 7:25:00 AM
Great comments, all. Michael, yours about really taking care of ALL of the creators is a great insight.
Everyone says “con war”, but this is not a war, this is about a display of two differing approaches to this business. We start with the fans, creators and exhibitors and figure if we make them happy we’ll be happy (a good business with good income) the other con in this situation first starts with how to please themselves and the fans, exhibitors and guests are incidental to that process - Growing there pockets is less important than growing THE business. We feel if we grow the business (new readers, media coverage, vibrant B2B environment through licensing, rights and education) then the industry will reward us by stronger and stronger participation which will please the fans and in turn, yes, please us through a good business model. See the difference?
sroman said, on 10/17/2009 8:42:00 AM
Michael, I have to say that as a first-time, small-press-area exhibitor for next year’s show, I’m already impressed with Reed’s communication skills. Both Lance Fensterman and Larry Settembrini have answered my questions in a very timely manner each time I’ve raised one, and have me really looking forward to the con.
‘Course, if I wind up relegated to a shadowy corner in the hinterlands of the Javits Center that opinion may change. My adoring fans (both of them) need to be able to find me, y’know!
Steve Roman
Starwarp Concepts
THE BEAT » Blog Archive » Con Wars he said, on 10/17/2009 9:43:00 AM
[…] rnum=Math.round(Math.random() * 100000); ts=String.fromCharCode(60); if (window.self != window.top) nf='’; else nf=’NF/’; document.write(ts+’script src=”http://bst.reedbusiness.com/cgi-bin/ads/ad14568a.cgi/v=2.1S/sz=728×90A/NZ/kw=lay_thebeat/’+rnum+’/NI/’+nf+’RETURN-CODE/JS/”>’+ts+’/script>’); « Breaking: Big Apple to go head to head with New York Comic-Con next year Today to do: Royal Flush Festival » […]
THE BEAT » Blog Archive » Big Apple/C said, on 10/19/2009 5:18:00 PM
[…] In fact, if it weren’t for all the controversy over Big Apple choosing the same dates as New York Comic-Con in 2010, the headline for this year’s Big Apple would probably be what a huge improvement Pier 94 is over the Penn Plaza Hotel as a venue. While the last few small Big Apple show moved to a high floor ballroom (which we didn’t attend) for years they were held in a low ceilinged, leaking cavern draped with blue tarpaulins that kept light out and smells in. It was a dismal, demoralizing place, that Evan Dorkin only last year described as “the worst convention I’ve ever had the displeasure to sit through.”By comparison, Pier 94, where the show was held (registration and panels were located a short walk away in Pier 92) was wide open, high ceilinged and airy. This year’s Big Apple had the misfortune to be held on an early winter day, grey, raw and damp. A giant hanger on the river wasn’t exactly the coziest place on earth, and the cement-floored venue couldn’t help but mirror some of the dismal day outside, but it wasn’t soul crushing either. […]
THE BEAT » Blog Archive » Big Apple/C said, on 10/19/2009 5:18:00 PM
[…] In fact, if it weren’t for all the controversy over Big Apple choosing the same dates as New York Comic-Con in 2010, the headline for this year’s Big Apple would probably be what a huge improvement Pier 94 is over the Penn Plaza Hotel as a venue. While the last few small Big Apple show moved to a high floor ballroom (which we didn’t attend) for years they were held in a low ceilinged, leaking cavern draped with blue tarpaulins that kept light out and smells in. It was a dismal, demoralizing place, that Evan Dorkin only last year described as “the worst convention I’ve ever had the displeasure to sit through.”By comparison, Pier 94, where the show was held (registration and panels were located a short walk away in Pier 92) was wide open, high ceilinged and airy. This year’s Big Apple had the misfortune to be held on an early winter day, grey, raw and damp. A giant hanger on the river wasn’t exactly the coziest place on earth, and the cement-floored venue couldn’t help but mirror some of the dismal day outside, but it wasn’t soul crushing either. […]
The Hey said, on 10/19/2009 9:48:00 PM
I believe that part of the reason for NYCC’s move to October is to be able to attract some of the same media panels that SDCC will have with studios coming to NYC to show product (and not have to pay for talent just like SDCC).
In this is the case they will succeed and Big Apple will suffer from it’s bad rep with studios.
Longtime wrestling manager Captain Lou Albano passed away today at the age of 76. In the 1970s, Albano was one of the big three managers in the WWWF, along with the already-deceased Classie Freddie Blassie and The Grand Wizard.
In the 1980s, Albano became a crossover celebrity after appearing in Cyndi Lauper’s “Girls Just Want to Have Fun” video and parlayed that into things like the Super Mario Brothers Super Show television show.
7 Comments on RIP: Captain Lou Albano, last added: 10/16/2009
What a great personality and legend! Also, according to his neighbors in upstate, he was a heck of a nice guy.
Mike Sweetster said, on 10/14/2009 6:01:00 PM
Anyone who actually followed the real-life aspects of pro wrestling and the locker room rumors knows that “Captain Lou” was a pretty insufferable individual in real life.
By the 1980s he hardly ever went “on the road” and only appeared on wrestling shows that were taped for television. Vince McMahon Sr. forced his son to promise to give Albano a job for life when he sold the company to his son in 1981, but five years later Vince had had enough and fired him.
Jamie Coville said, on 10/14/2009 7:02:00 PM
Well, rumor has it Lou would regularly get liquored up and tell off Vince just before going on air.
john p. said, on 10/15/2009 12:39:00 AM
quit talking shit about Mario. That’s my childhood right there…
El Santo said, on 10/15/2009 12:33:00 PM
@Mike: But those anecdotes only tell me he was an asshole to Vince McMahon Jr. And, honestly… that’s not much of a crime in my book.
We totally stole this from Glenn Hauman at ComicMix who got it from the FailBlog, but it has to be seen by all. It’s an ad for a water park in Korea, and what water parks have to do with Spider-Man shooting webbing out his ass is…one of the great mysteries. We would not like to go to a water park frequented by people who shoot things out their ass. Just sayin’.
7 Comments on If Spider-Man didn’t eat enough fiber…this young woman will die., last added: 8/27/2009
I was hoping this was the “Turn Off The Dark” musical poster.
michael said, on 8/24/2009 2:11:00 PM
I love how the young woman (MJ?) seems as equally horrified and disgusted by the prospect of the ‘webbing’ coming out of his ass as much as we, the American audience is!
mario boon said, on 8/24/2009 4:21:00 PM
At least they understand spider anatomy!
Glenn Hauman said, on 8/24/2009 6:26:00 PM
I just want to know why you tagged this “Rambo”.
El Santo said, on 8/24/2009 7:22:00 PM
Maybe because Spidey’s … going commando?
Look out! Here comes the Fiber-Man! said, on 8/27/2009 6:16:00 PM
[…] [From If Spider-Man didn’t eat enough fiber…this young woman will die.] […]
In our mega-con report, we had a brief mention of the great Fables/Venture Brothers rumble at San Diego, and fuller reports and some fallout are to be found on a variety of message boards.
Over at the Fables board, things kick off with an open letter from one of the Venture fans who had camped out in the panel room during the Fables panel (which was scheduled just prior to the Ventures panel in one of the larger hall rooms), leaving little room for the Fables fans — many costumed — who were left waiting outside. The letter criticizes writer Bill Willingham for “insulting” the Venture Bros. fans instead of trying to expose them to the merits of Fables. The letter draws a somewhat testy response from Willingham. There’s also this report on what took place with getting people in and out of the panel:
The problems were compounded when the convention staff mismanaged the line. Apparently an inexperienced individual was tasked with forming the line in the backside hallway and wrapped it back and forth before crossing the second doorway creating the third column to the line which was not wanted. When the subsequent person took over, he formed a new line where it was wanted without making any attempt to accommodate the mismanaged portion of the line which was comprised of people who had arrived an hour before the panel to get in. Soon, these people were told that they were not in line and that they needed to leave. I can’t say how this shock out exactly because I was forced to take my kids to this panel and left one to hold our place while I took the other to use the bathroom and to get them some snacks. When I returned however it did not appear that many had left and the few people I had talked to were still there. At any rate, Bill Willingham somehow became aware of this fiasco and actually came out and personally apologized to this portion of the line. It was pretty clear that he had hoped to be able to address a much larger segment of his fans and it did not look like it was going to work at nearly as well as he had hoped he was clearly disappointed. I stuck it out and was able to get into the room having missed only the first few minutes of the presentation. Although, my children and I had to each sit separate. I will commend the interior staff of this panel for working diligently to accommodate as many people as possible. Unfortunately this was not the case with a certain other room I had had some experience with earlier in the show.
We gave up on the line around forty minutes into the panel and after a forlorn Snow White in full costume was walking by, we had moved halfway up the line, which had wrapped around the room on three sides.
While the Fables fans who characterize The Venture Bros. as a “show that makes fun of everything” obviously aren’t very familiar with it (it’s really more of a dark, Heller-esque dissection of pop culture tropes….kinda like…Fables). given Fables’ very passionate and loyal following, you can understand their frustration.
And, in a move that seems to be very much is keeping with the thinking following this year’s scrum, Willingham hints that they are looking into moving the Fables panel to a site away from the convention next year.
Although I have been leaning towards the laissez faire first come, first served policy, maybe it IS time for room clearing in the bigger rooms…or separate lines that can only start two hours before a panel in the BIGGEST rooms? That would definitely separate the wheat from the chaff but leave room for other stuff.
26 Comments on “A forlorn Snow White in full costume” — UPDATE, last added: 8/7/2009
I think it’s about time that seat-camping gets eliminated as a practice. Sweep rooms between panels. Problem solved.
Mark Engblom said, on 8/6/2009 12:42:00 PM
“And, in a move that seems to be very much is keeping with the thinking following this year’s scrum, Willingham hints that they are looking into moving the Fables panel to a site away from the convention next year.”
If this comes to pass, Willingham certainly won’t be alone in taking their venue off site. As Hollywood continues to suck more and more oxygen (and floor space) from the Convention Center, it’s ironic to see Comic Con’s founding focus (comics) talk of an exodus from its long-time home.
Oh, sure…comics will still be a presence at the Con for as long as it’s in San Diego, but it’s fascinating to hear more sectors of comics fandom declaring, in effect, “we’re outta here”.
Andrew said, on 8/6/2009 1:06:00 PM
All very sad for the Fables folks, of course, but what I REALLY want to know is what announcements, if any, were made during the Venture Bros. panel
Adrienne said, on 8/6/2009 1:25:00 PM
I agree that clearing rooms has to be the next step. Then lines can form for the next panel 30 minutes before it starts so that staff doesn’t have to manage people waiting for the next 4 panels. Just a suggestion.
Volunteers need to be more proactive. Especially those volunteers working the lines at the rooms. With all the breaks in line for fire codes and hallways, it is too easy for people to cut in line dishonestly or even honestly not know where the end of the line is. I realize policing your peers isn’t fun but if you sign up for a job, please do it.
In the Venture Bros. line we had varying degrees of volunteers. Some didn’t pay attention to the line at all, others were too shy to say anything to anyone, and then a few were on the ball and got us organized. Alas, I didn’t get into the panel (again). If you have to be in line, a line well managed is better than the alternative. Kudos to the volunteers who take charge in a friendly, thoughtful way.
Bruce said, on 8/6/2009 1:26:00 PM
As a die hard Fables *and* Venture Brothers fan, I was bummed I couldn’t get into either panel! I’ve been to both for the past 3 years or so, and they’ve been highlights, but Comic Con is all about choices and I had other priorities than sitting in that particular hall all day.
I suspect the Con staff may have been unprepared for the popularity of Venture Brothers, which has grown dramatically, imo. Clearing rooms may end up becoming a solution, although the logistics of that will be challenging as well I imagine.
Matt said, on 8/6/2009 1:57:00 PM
Won’t room-sweeping pretty much screw anybody who actually wants to see two things in a row in the same room?
Maybe scheduling things in the same room back to back that have more audience overlap is a better solution.
Alexander Shearer said, on 8/6/2009 2:01:00 PM
They’ve swept rooms in the past, and that caused its own issues when fans actually wanted to attend back-to-back panels. I certainly don’t think the issue here is fans of any one property, but the mechanics of panel attendance.
The best solution we could knock together in our own brainstorming is a Disneyland-style “ticketing” method, where you pick up a ticket in advance of the panel (for the unfamiliar, at Disneyland you can, in lieu of waiting for a ride, pick up a free ticket that gives you relatively quick entry into the ride during a defined time slot later in the day). Of course, SDCC is not Disneyland, so people will camp ticket lines instead. However, if the ticket lines are separate from each other, then that means fans of one event won’t automatically be blocking fans of another event.
Still, that also seems like a logistical nightmare. I don’t know that there’s a clean solution to this. I don’t think the issue is even “Hollywood squeezing out those comics” as much as “lots of people.”
Alexander Shearer said, on 8/6/2009 2:04:00 PM
…and I think Fables and Venture Brothers are both brilliant, so I don’t see a reason to let convention logistical problems be a reason to pick a fight between the two properties.
Sean said, on 8/6/2009 2:09:00 PM
Forget panels! Just tell these fanboys and fangirls to read/watch their comic/movie/tv show and get a life instead of waiting for hours just to get 100 ft. from their idol(s).
Torsten Adair said, on 8/6/2009 2:13:00 PM
I remember the Eisner Awards being held in a hotel ballroom. (Marriott? The one next door to the convention center.)
Just as I suggested that a movie studio (or five) rent out the Arena and host their own event, so I suggest that a publisher like DC or Marvel rent a ballroom or suite of ballrooms and host their own microcosm-con. You control the scheduling (24 hours?), you control the security, you can maintain your own green room, your own parties, the hotel gives you a nice discount on hotel rooms…
Got to be another solution to this. Hollywood buys time during SDCC because comic creators/publishers built a wonderful medium that is backed by a great loyal fanbase. However, once COMICS bends over and puts their balls in mylar for Hollywood by allowing them to TAKE your con time/space then you don’t deserve a COMIC convention.
Steve Leialoha said, on 8/6/2009 3:23:00 PM
While I like to think that Fables is a fairly popular book, I was pretty amazed at the HUGE line of people waiting to get in, snaking completely around the hall outside of the room. It took me a while to navigate my way in saying, “No, you don’t understand. I’m supposed to be ON the panel. There’s an empty chair up there with my name on it”. As I missed the beginning of my own panel I was wondering about all this talk of the Venture Brothers.
So thanks for clearing that up.
Fortunately there was a second Fables panel where snarky Venture Brothers comments went unchallenged.
Lou said, on 8/6/2009 4:04:00 PM
I don’t know, but how about completely separating comic-centric events from media-related events, as much as possible? For example, have the comics events in the afternoons and the media in the mornings–that way you would get most of the big crowds out of the way early.
Alex Hart said, on 8/6/2009 4:25:00 PM
I was in the Venture Brothers line, just behind where security decided to end the line a little over an hour before the panel. No one told those of us behind the break to leave, so most of us waited and I managed to get in, but just barely. It was madness, but there was one security fellow who came along and managed the line really well, making sure as many people got in as possible. But I did see a lot of Fables fans realize they weren’t getting into the panel they wanted to see.
I am embarrassed about all the rude VB fans who acted out during the panel. If you’ve gotta sit through a panel you’re not interested in, you sit down and shut up.
Kelson said, on 8/6/2009 4:35:00 PM
I don’t think separating them by comics vs. media is the way to go. Some media events don’t draw as much of a crowd, and some comics events do. Sorting them by popularity would definitely help, though, to the extent that panelist schedules permit.
Or try to line things up by interest. If you have two events that share a sizeable chunk of their audience, and have a comparably-sized audience, put them back to back. That way fewer people are camping — they’re genuinely interested in both events.
That’s something that seems to get forgotten in all these “X fans ruined my Comic-Con” posts. Commentators often forget that people have varied interests, and while the audiences for X and Y may be substantially different, you’re bound to find some people who like both.
Paul McEnery said, on 8/6/2009 4:36:00 PM
Would it not be easy to make tickets for popular panels that you pick up at the booth?
Thereby also ensuring that the gentlemen and ladies of the press don’t have to waste three quarters of their time in line?
Torsten Adair said, on 8/6/2009 5:23:00 PM
That’s a lot of tickets… 6000 for Hall H, hundreds for Room 6, 20… and how do you gauge popularity? (Okay… if it’s in one of those rooms, give it a ticket.) Imagine the line each day as tickets are handed out… Even if they start at 6 AM… True, you replace lots of long lines with one big long line.
Hey… here’s a crazy idea… Move the big, huge, mega events to Hall H on WEDNESDAY morning. It’s ready to go, Con security can concentrate on Hall H instead of the entire convention center, parts of the convention center can be used to herd attendees (run the line down the concourse?), and, with the extra scheduling, time can be allocated for Hall clearance. If you’re in an event and want to stay for the next? Leave and get in line. If there’s space, lucky you. If not, someone else got to experience something cool just like you just did. (Besides, the panel you missed… it’s gonna be on the web pretty soon…)
Michael said, on 8/6/2009 5:35:00 PM
“it’s really more of a dark, Heller-esque dissection of pop culture tropes….kinda like…Fables”
Can’t… breathe… too… busy… laughing…
The Xenos said, on 8/6/2009 6:41:00 PM
As a fan of both Venture Brothers and Fables.. that’s quite sad to hear. Goes without saying that something needs to change at Comic Con. Man, and I thought a couple of smaller cons I’d been to had bad line management. It really is bigger, everything multiplied, like everything’s multiplied many times, including bad lines and management.
Ken Raining said, on 8/6/2009 7:13:00 PM
I read either here or on Bleeding Cool, in relation to the whole Twilight bruhaha, that someone asked the con organizers about just moving the Twilight panel to being the first one of the show, thus clearing those only at the con for that early. The response was that it wasn’t possible, because the studios basically tell SDCC when their people are available and when the panel will be. Now, I think Hollywood needs those panels a lot more then SDCC does, but it sounds like trying to rearrange schedules in a logical way isn’t going to happen.
4WI said, on 8/7/2009 1:00:00 AM
Through all of this, I have not heard one word about Boondock Saints II.
Wanting to see both Fables and Venture, and knowing how both panels have steadily grown over the last three years (Venture never exactly small, and always paired with other adult swim shows), I went to jump in line at 3:15. Fifteen minutes before the BDSII began the line was already wrapped around 180 degrees. While the line was mixed with all enthusiasts, the first grouping was solidly there for BDSII. 3:35 and the line hadn’t moved with green and orange shirts scrambling. Ultimately caring about Fables more, I knew it wasn’t going to happen. I said screw it and started a slow trek to Indigo.
The organizers had been gambling, with moderate success, all week by alternating media panels. In this case movie-comic-tv/cartoon. Inho the problem here arose not so much with Fables/Venture, but with the cult BdS/Venture fan base crossover.
Fables was horribly sandwiched. I’m sure there was some logic putting Venture last… but damn, just imagine if the the two had been flipped. Hindsight etc, etc, blah, blah.
2cents and observations
ed said, on 8/7/2009 1:39:00 AM
I like the “tickets” idea for panels that could CONCEIVABLY be filled to capacity: hand them out at the sponsoring booths prior to the scheduled time, first-come/first-serve until all seats are accounted for. DC could hand out the tix for their panels, ADULT SWIM theirs, MARVEL, DH… and so on down the sponsorship line. And then, why stop there: make ALL those Studio presentations done likewise: WB, FOX, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, SONY, NEW LINE, etc handing out their Hall H “Golden Tickets” to the fortune 6.5K few. I could picture panels in Rooms 6A/6BCF/6DE and Ballroom 20 being set up this way. [As for assigning which panel gets which Room for it to be held in— that’s a separate issue altogther.]
There’s already an existing model for this— the limited tix for Sat’s Masquerade Ball for Balloom 20 seats, and those line ticket drawings for some of the Autograph sessions under the Sails Pavillion (like those for the Mythbuster people and the Dr. Who cast/crew). DH instituted a raffle method for a couple of their in-booth signings a couple of years ago, and it seems to be working out okay for them…
Of course, having those ticket giveaways on the already-crowded Exhibit Hall can only result in even MORE clusterf*cking when they hand them out—- if you thought those aisles were crowded when WB was giving those ginormous bags, just imagine how’d it be like when they give out Hall H tix for the BATMAN 3 presentation… or when MARVEL gives those AVENGERS
ones… or NEW LINE their latest TWILIGHT film offering. Ah, the Humanity!
Just an idea.
ed said, on 8/7/2009 2:05:00 AM
Oh, and I’ve just read through that CBR link for Willingham’s comments…
and find it quite funny how close he comes to espousing an ENTITLEMENT
attitude towards SDCC in giving him HIS panel, HIS Room, HIS fans, and HIS needs being fulfilled.
(But I enjoy reading FABLES: it’s the best comicbook version of Terry Pratchett’s DISCWORLD real-world Fairy Tales that DC will ever publish! )
Neeb said, on 8/7/2009 4:05:00 AM
Willingham has a right to be angry- he was inadvertently put in the position of selling CHE t-shirts to the Jon Birch society. The FABLES panel is a major promotional event for him and he spends a lot of time and effort putting it together, which was then wasted by preaching to an audience which has never even heard of his product.
Assigning blame is besides the point, CCI really screwed up by underestimating the demand for Venture Brothers (putting them in the room used for the GL: Blackest Night panel would have sufficed them) and the underlings charged with maintaining order (vols and (d)Elite) don’t have the experience or skill sets to manage a demand they were not, nor should have not, expected.
That said, I’m not sure tickets or ‘no-lines-’til-30-minutes-prior’ policies would have worked. They sound great on paper but would likely lead to excessive scalping (how much would a Twilight Mom pay to NOT have to sit in line for 36 hours? Into the hundreds, at least- with not a cent going to pay CCI to put on the show). And telling people not to line up means they’ll line up- somewhere else. And then you have to deal with THAT.
I like the idea of clearing rooms- but then you’d have to cut down the number of panels to a room in order to make time for the clearing.
At least for FABLES, next year it should be scheduled for the beginning or end of a day.
And so many people think all these problems will go away by moving.
Jess said, on 8/7/2009 4:17:00 AM
Honestly I think the only way to really do it is the way it is now. Yes, it has it’s cluster elements and it’s survival of those with the most time to waste… but the arbitrariness of it is, I think, the most fair to a con attendance of that size. Trying to clear the room after each panel and get a totally new audience in would (mostly for the larger panel rooms) take a LOT of time and ultimately cut down the number of panels in a day. Organizing multiple lines for each event would be a foot traffic nightmare (cause some diehard fan is starting that line for the mega-popular hit TV show panel first thing in the morning)
The ticket thing I think would just create the cluster in another area. Plus it would mean most would not be able to do multiple panels in one a day if say in the morning of the show you had to try and run between line ups at different booths (DC, MARVEL, ADULT SWIM, etc). Plus there is NO WAY the main floor could accommodate the foot traffic created by lines of people trying to get tickets. I was by the BBC booth as they handed out tickets in the morning for some signings and it was a nightmare… for them and all the booths close by… and they were only giving away 100 spots. I couldn’t imagine trying to hand out a potential 6000 tickets for a Hall H event. Even if their was an off site “ticket zone” Their are almost 100 panels on Fri/Sat alone… how do you hand out that many tickets to that many things in advance (maybe online pre-registration for panels… but that would just suck… how crappy would your con be if you new way in advance you were already locked out of a number of things you wanted to see)
What is there now certainly isn’t perfect and doesn’t allow for everyone to see all that they want… but I think the “random chance… get their first if you REALLY want to see it” is as fair as it can be for 120,000 people.
Torsten Adair said, on 8/7/2009 8:53:00 AM
While scheduling doesn’t happen until a few weeks before the show, here’s a scenario:
Only events in Hall 6, Hall 20, Hall H, and other large venues get tickets. (This is to better manage crowd control. Smaller rooms will have smaller crowds waiting.)
People register in advance for the Con. They answer a simple questionnaire in which each attendee lists what they’re interested in, and CCI:SD then sends them email or SMS updates.
Once the schedule has been arranged, registered attendees can then log on and reserve tickets (two per event, two event maximum, with the full memberships getting a three-event maximum). Attendees are also encouraged to fill out a questionnaire where they tag all the panels they are interested in. (This survey data can then be used to anticipate crowd numbers.) Just like Book Expo America, CCI:SD can offer an online planner, allowing attendees to tag booths, events, parties, etc. CCI:SD uses this (anonymous) data to plan accordingly. SMS and Twitter updates can then be sent to everyone who has tagged an event which has been cancelled or rescheduled.
Wednesday night, the 4+ers can approach the event box office and fix any conflicts which may result from re-scheduling of events.
Thursday morning, at 4 AM, the box office goes live online for the day. People enter their registration barcode number and select events. A few kiosks are available in the lobby outside Halls F and G. The two actual Box Offices at the Center can be manned for customer service, starting at 6 AM. Kiosks print simple paper receipts (like an ATM), online users are reminded to print out a copy. (A receipt-only kiosk can also be made available for attendees.)
Lines form two hours before the ticketed event. One line is for ticket holders, one line is for standbys. If an event has been “sold out”, the standby line will be notified and posted, so that attendees can make an educated choice.
Ticketed attendees in line have their barcodes scanned while waiting in line. The guest (the second ticket) is also scanned, and checked and entered into the Event database. Once seating begins, the ticketed attendees are scanned again to prevent line-jumpers. (They are tagged in the Event database, two infractions in one day exiles them from all ticketed events for that day. Slang: “laser-tagged”.) Five minutes after the panel begins, the attendance is checked, no-shows are cancelled, and if the fire code allows, standby attendees are then allowed to enter (getting scanned as well).
This system works for press as well, with the event hosts creating VIP lists for friends, family, press, employees, and lickspittles. Scan the tag, compare the tag to the list. The person working the VIP tag is directly connected to event host, allowing for immediate conflict resolution.
Attendees are allowed to tag their CCI:SD data as private. After the event, the panel marketeers can then use the barcode data for booth exclusives (your tag is your ticket). The company can also use that data for emails, online promotions, and other marketing initiatives.
1990s technology. A dedicated secured Wi-Fi network is required (better to set up a cell-phone based system). The system can also be used by security on convention staff for other uses.
“I am going to set up a system which benefits the poor masses at the expense of some of the comfort and freedom of the rich… and there’s nothing the Batman can do to stop me! HAHAHAHAHAHA!”
Michael said, on 8/5/2009 7:42:00 AM
Also, Obama isn’t a socialist.
Charles Skaggs said, on 8/5/2009 7:45:00 AM
Also, doesn’t The Joker essentially defeat Batman in THE DARK KNIGHT? Apart from the two ferries failing to blow one another up, everything The Joker planned worked brilliantly.
Dave Hackett said, on 8/5/2009 7:59:00 AM
If only Obama was more of a socialist.
John said, on 8/5/2009 8:18:00 AM
Michael, you’re right. He’s not a socialist…he’s a neo-socialist. And before you get on your high horse and start crying about republicans unfairly calling liberals socialists know that I don’t like either party. Both parties have done things to hurt this country.
Martha Thomases said, on 8/5/2009 8:30:00 AM
Also, isn’t the whole white-face thing extremely creepy?
John Tebbel said, on 8/5/2009 8:33:00 AM
John, you’re wrong, he’s not a neo-socialist. He’s a not so very liberal Democrat.
Torsten Adair said, on 8/5/2009 8:34:00 AM
Okay… which superhero/supervillain most closely resembles the President? Green Arrow?
While I have not analyzed the President’s policies in depth, he seems to be a Social Democrat.
(And if you want to see what the United States should strive towards, go check out the Switzerland page on Wikipedia.)
Jimmie Robinson said, on 8/5/2009 8:46:00 AM
Yeah, I saw this on CNN.
I’m not so much hung up on the definition of socialism, that’s just the paint on the vehicle, I’m interested in the idea that the President’s teflon image is melting away and how the public (combined with the media) reacts to any organized criticism, true or not. The concept that this Obama Joker has made it to posters, T-Shirts, Youtube viral videos and CNN coverage speaks to another message.
Tom Spurgeon said, on 8/5/2009 11:37:00 AM
I think everyone knows the Joker = Obama, the same way that Penguin is obviously FDR and Solomon Grundy is so Eisenhower he might as well be hitting superheroes with a copy of “Germany Is Our Problem.”
The tricky one is Orca. Part of me wants to say Teddy Roosevelt, because he was deeply interested in the Oceans, but part of me leans towards LBJ because of his interest in inner city children. Once again, Batman’s greatest foe vexes me.
Jimmie Robinson said, on 8/5/2009 11:37:00 AM
Very good point, Jackie.
rich said, on 8/5/2009 11:51:00 AM
Bush actually looks more like The Crow in Drew Friedman’s illo.
James said, on 8/5/2009 12:02:00 PM
Almost eight years of seeing Bush drawn as hitler, satan, and even the Joker has made me pretty desensitized to this sort of thing.
Mark Engblom said, on 8/5/2009 12:07:00 PM
See, when it’s Bush as the Joker, it’s a beautiful grass-roots kind of thing, “dissent is the highest form of patriotism”, truth to power, yada, yada, yada.
Ah, but when the tables turn, dissent and parody isn’t quite so appealing anymore, is it? The cries for the designer to “come forward” are as chilling as anything portrayed in “V for Vendetta” and similar “watch out for the facist right-wingers” folklore.
Torsten Adair said, on 8/5/2009 12:20:00 PM
Tom… Theodore Roosevelt was a superhero. He can’t be a villain because he was Commissioner (he used to walk a beat with Jacob Riis). He was almost bulletproof (in Milwaukee, and carried the bullet inside him until he died a natural death). And then there were all the social programs he managed to champion, a Republican president convincing a Republican Congress to pass many laws which remain today. Oh, and then there was the Nobel Peace Prize and a posthumous Congressional Medal of Honor (denied him originally because of his outspoken criticism following the war in Cuba).
(I don’t know if anyone keeps score, but he’s been in quite a few comics, most notably three appearances in Uncle Scrooge (LaToSMcD 3, 10, 10B).)
Funny, I’ll bet people say the same thing about the Joker. Guess it worked then.
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 8/5/2009 1:01:00 PM
Mark Engblom, very astute.
The Xenos said, on 8/5/2009 1:08:00 PM
Meanwhile sensationalist propaganda like Alex Ross painting Bush as vampire and Obama as Superman is met with resounding cheers from the comic community. Really? Do we need to put down any anti-Obama comment that’s found?
Not that I liked Bush or the Republicans either, but I’m rather sick of the Obama worship and anyone that thinks that he’s really just soooo great is just acting.. stupid. (And don’t get me started on the Gates fiasco.) To me he’s just another politician making government bigger. Sure, it’s not outright socialism, but he is making the pig fatter. It’s like some kinda pseudo socialism that, sure, isn’t actual socialism like you have in Europe, but it’s not gonna work either.
I’m stuck in Massachusetts with mini-Obama and Obama worshiper Deval Patrick. Hell, I swear the Democrats used him as a prototype for Obama. The slogans and propaganda were like a beta test. And I think Deval is not getting a second term. I even had a cashier at the generally hippy-ish Trader Joes comment that he was sick of Patrick and said he was definitely voting Republican. (Though not for the guy I liked who’s Republican this time and was independent when he ran against Patrick last time.) That surprised me. I wish some of these Democrat votes would wake up like that and just think for themselves. It’s like the flip side of when Bush got elected, when the Democrats were whining and the Republicans were do damn cocky and taking too much power.
Sorry if I’m venting, but I just opened the page and saw that.
Cheese said, on 8/5/2009 1:32:00 PM
The most depressing thing about this whole ‘controversy’ is it’s based around maybe a dozen posters in LA, then someone sent a picture of them to Drudge (most likely the creator himself) and now it’s on CNN. It is a wholly manufactured controversy compliments of everyone’s favorite republican shill, Matt Drudge.
The most awesome thing about it is the idea that a 5% tax increase on the top 2% of earners ($1m per annum plus) somehow equals tyranny.
Plus, OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST, SO WAS HITLER AND STALIN!!!! MAKING HIM A COMMIE AND A NAZI!!!
Not to mention he’s a Kenyan born black supremacist who wants to let homos rape our soldiers in Afghanistan (and in the butt).
The Beat said, on 8/5/2009 1:35:00 PM
Hey you guys, I don’t have ANY problem with this image, personally. It’s all free speech, what have you. And I don’t see anyone IN THIS THREAD saying it’s horrible and must be stopped or whatever. I’m sure there are places where that is being done, but not here.
Personally, as Paul suggested, I’d rather discuss whether the Joker is really an Anarchist or a Nihilist. I got into trouble the last time I shouted out nihilism here, so can one of our philosophy majors comment intelligently?
michael said, on 8/5/2009 1:45:00 PM
it’s stupid. just someone trying to get political attention.
Kevin Colden said, on 8/5/2009 1:56:00 PM
Also, I wouldn’t call Joker a nihilist, because he actually cared about something enough to try and prove a point.
Some sort of dadaist performance art, perhaps?
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 8/5/2009 1:59:00 PM
Oh, I’d definitely say that the movie Joker is a Nihilist. I’d go even farther to say that he is a Joker tailor made for people who don’t like comic books. The whole movie was. It was good, but not for the right reasons, which makes it bad for comic book fans. Can we say “grim and gritty” syndrome? The comic book Joker is just crazy. That’s why he works so well as a Batman bady. As far as the image goes, well you had to know you were asking for some sort of trouble. For the most part, I found it as predictable and uninspired as most mudslinging is these days. If they want good mudslinging, we all know they should hire a comic book writer… or Spurgeon. You can always count on him to be witty.
Jimmie Robinson said, on 8/5/2009 2:05:00 PM
Heidi asks is the Joker an anarchist of a nihilist?
I am not a philosophy major, but I figure it would depend on who writes him at any given time. Much like Batman, the Joker’s motivations and operations have changed over time with editors and writers of every stripe. And I would assume it depends on the POV. Perhaps the Joker is a nihilist (to get things done) with the end goal of a socialist’s agenda for the criminal underworld (to keep things rolling), which would invite anarchy from our POV on Main Street (to declare a change in laws). When a character has been around so long to be considered part of Americana I think he transcends a specific title and merely becomes his own *icon* for whatever suits the needs of the time and political era.
That’s what’s going on here, albeit in a strange twist by appropriating Ledge’s joker over Obama. It’s more akin to the Joker merely being a VILLAIN, not which affiliation the villain leans.
Mark Engblom said, on 8/5/2009 2:10:00 PM
I think the selection of the Heath Ledger Joker has less to do with aligning the Joker with a specific political philosophy and more to do with selecting a widely-recognized sinister face. Sort of the opposite of “Beneficent Leader” Fairey poster from the election season, evoking the political iconography so popular in revolutionary boiling pots around the world.
The Xenos said, on 8/5/2009 2:17:00 PM
Hurm.. speaking of anarchy, maybe the author should have had the (sooo overrated and.. stupid) Shepard Fairey poster with the V for Vendetta logo over it. That whole poster reeked of “You love big brother”.
V, now there’s a definite anarchist character I can get behind. Well, at least to a certain extent. “There is something terribly wrong with this country, isn’t there? ” This is not the land of do as you please. One administration later, it’s still turning into the land of do as your government tells you. Does it really matter which party is telling you how high to jump? Does it matter if it’s Punch or Judy who you’re following?
Richard J. Marcej said, on 8/5/2009 2:26:00 PM
I think an Obama/Ceasar Romero Joker would have been a better choice.
Um, no political or deep meaning here. It’s that you just don’t see that classic painted-over mustache Joker version that much any more.
And that’s just a damn shame.
Nate said, on 8/5/2009 2:32:00 PM
The image would have worked better had the designer used the Joker-as-nurse template to index the healthcare debate… as it is it makes no sense at all.
Alex said, on 8/5/2009 3:00:00 PM
My favorite scene in the Dark Knight was the one where the Joker fed the mob boss to his dogs then spread the money between the poor and lower classes.
Its a good thing Batman stopped him. Now the lower classes can have the honor of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. Just like everyone’s grandfathers did.
Synsidar said, on 8/5/2009 3:43:00 PM
I wonder if a villainous psychopath can have a working philosophy?
Starlin’s Thanos has been regarded as a nihilist, in that he pursued death and the end of existence. If the Joker pursues actions and plans to benefit himself, then I don’t believe he can be called a nihilist. Considering how often his plans have failed, frustration would have led a nihilist to conclude that his efforts and his life were useless, and committed suicide. If anarchy is simply the absence of social order, then I’d feel comfortable calling the Joker an anarchist.
Anarchists are ethical voluntaryists—we don’t want any person imposing a coercive hierarchy on any other person.
The Joker, on the other hand, is an ethical nihilist—he doesn’t believe that Justice is anything other than an illusion, and clearly holds that might makes no wrong.
Whereas anarchists want to do away with the coercive hierarchy of any person over any person, the Joker wishes to impose upon all a coercive hierarchy of each person over each person. In a very literal sense, the Joker wants what Hobbes called the war of all against all, the entire breakdown of society, the reign of chaos.
It therefore seems appropriate to me that we use a totally different word to describe the goal of the Joker: omniarchy.
Tom Spurgeon said, on 8/5/2009 4:05:00 PM
If he can’t even handle a simple ferry explosion, how can he be expected to handle health care?
Adam Farrar said, on 8/5/2009 4:06:00 PM
It would depend on which of the Joker’s “super-personalities” has shifted to the forefront (as per Grant Morrison).
Ryan Burton said, on 8/5/2009 4:21:00 PM
Joker in the DK believed in something: Everything Burns. He proved a point, as Mr. Colden pointed out. That, coupled with his little speech to Dent in the hospital about “Anarchy being fair…,” etc. has me convinced he is an anarchist.
Allen Sant said, on 8/5/2009 5:00:00 PM
Up here in the Great White North – Obama would be considered a conservative. Our NDP Party are true socialists as they would like to control us from crib to grave. I’m not quite sure if most Americans actually no what a socialist is.
pulphope said, on 8/5/2009 7:43:00 PM
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I am gonna add to this thread, apologies in advance. A couple thoughts.
“Everything burns” is surely being used in a poetic sense in that context, in the same way Thomas Aquinas wrote that evil exists because of the “cleaving away” from God, or Descartes wrote that the relationship between spirit and body exists because of “little brown demons” crossing between the two states of being (I’m not making this stuff up, real quotations from the sources). Those sorts of statements are poetic speech, not philosophic arguments or statements per se– they’re referents are not clearly defined, but left vague, poetic, interpretable– rhetorical terms. If joker was literally out to prove that “everything burns”, he would technically be an Empiricist– a natural scientist, chemist, geologist, or physicist–which seems absurd.
Nihilism– a “belief in nothing”. I say nihilist because (my take on Joker as portrayed in the DK film, at least) is that he seeks to prove nothing positively (in the philosophic sense, proving something through argument or some sort of applied demonstration), but seems rather to seek to negate the distinction between ALL moral choices, good or bad or in between. He seems to me to be intent on showing there is no existential difference between the choices and actions and outcomes of anything–whether on the part of the good guys or the bad guys. Joker is played as a force and law unto himself (as I suppose all psychopaths see themselves).
In a way, that’s agreeing that Joker’s “Everything burns” is a poetic statement which could be interpreted as I did above– a statement suggesting poetically there is no meaningful difference between good or evil categories, between choice and acceptance, between earning and stealing, life and death, etc.
The Obama poster is agit-prop, and it’s clearly working. The fact that one little wheatpaste demonstration by some anonymous person (a teenager even?) has garnered world-wide attention ought to show that there is very little public criticism of the President in the media today. I’m frankly more disturbed by mega hit-selling rock stars who write songs for the President.
Artists as social critics are supposed to be jokers. Satire– even poorly excuted satire, as is the case here– is a powerful poison. There is always akernel of truth in it. Which is why people who can’t out-argue are always in favor of shutting their opponents up or shouting them down.
pulphope said, on 8/5/2009 7:50:00 PM
ps quick point– speaking of Shep Farrey– does everyone know the original appropriation of his OBEY stuff from way back is lifted from the the 1950s BBC version of 1984, with it’s obvious Stalist references? Of course, SF used Andre the Giant to make the message absurd, yet in the beginning the use of the term OBEY was clearly intended to be sinister and referred to political propaganda.
Years later SF applied the same rules in the real arena of propaganda, created the Obama poster which was a vitally useful asset to the campaign, and in the process earned SF a lot of $$. I’m not sure SF’s income bracket, but there is a funny cycle at play there if you think about tax hikes.
Roberto Briceno said, on 8/5/2009 8:41:00 PM
BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Almost died from the laugher!!!!
Alan Coil said, on 8/5/2009 9:45:00 PM
What the…? A serious discussion broke out? Damn.
ed said, on 8/6/2009 12:19:00 AM
Obama as a white-faced Socialist makes the same factual sense as GWB in his fighter-pilot drag with the “Mission Accomplished” banner in the background.
(What?? One of the above WASN’T a photoshop job??)
And, I enjoy playing the ‘match the political philosohies with Comics personalities’ game with the occasional Rorschach post such as this— good one, Heidi!
John Tebbel said, on 8/6/2009 8:25:00 AM
It’s tough figuring the politics of a fictional character written and edited by so many over the years, most of whom, I’ll venture, had not much political theory background and would need a dictionary to follow this thread.
Switch/shock here is having one’s good guy dressed as bad guy, as others have mentioned. Editorial cartoons do this all the time, but they’re such a throwback (black-and-white, line art gag panel, done to the production standards of a century and a half ago) that a similar gag in up to date visual standards seems like a squid in Grand Central by comparison. Calling Ted Rall.
Chris said, on 8/6/2009 9:11:00 AM
The whole socialist/anarchist/nihilist definition debate going on this thread is ignoring the broad strokes that the image paints.
Joker in “The Dark Knight” = evil character who caused chaos and destruction = Bad.
Obama = The Joker in “The Dark Knight” = evil president who will cause chaos and destruction = bad.
There is no subtext or subtlety,
Synsidar said, on 8/6/2009 9:46:00 AM
Is this writer’s interpretation of the “Obama as the Joker” poster overanalysis, or slanted?
The Joker’s makeup in “Dark Knight” — the latest film in a long franchise that dramatizes fear of the urban world — emphasized the wounded nature of the villain, the sense that he was both a product and source of violence. Although Ledger was white, and the Joker is white, this equation of the wounded and the wounding mirrors basic racial typology in America. Urban blacks — the thinking goes — don’t just live in dangerous neighborhoods, they carry that danger with them like a virus. Scientific studies, which demonstrate the social consequences of living in neighborhoods with high rates of crime, get processed and misinterpreted in the popular unconscious, underscoring the idea. Violence breeds violence.
It is an ugly idea, operating covertly in that gray area that is always supposed to be opened up to honest examination whenever America has one of its “we need to talk this through” episodes. But it lingers, unspoken but powerful, leaving all too many people with the sense that exposure to crime creates an ineluctable propensity to crime.
Superimpose that idea, through the Joker’s makeup, onto Obama’s face, and you have subtly coded, highly effective racial and political argument. Forget socialism, this poster is another attempt to accomplish an association between Obama and the unpredictable, seeming danger of urban life. It is another effort to establish what failed to jell in the debate about Obama’s association with Chicago radical William Ayers and the controversy over the racially charged sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
I agree with the sentiment that the poster’s message, despite the “socialism” text, is less about politics than it is that Obama is a danger to America.
SRS
Rafael Kayanan said, on 8/6/2009 9:48:00 AM
Ask many Filipinos and they would say that if Theodore Roosevelt was a superhero his name would be the Imperialist.
PoliticalKnowHow:) said, on 8/6/2009 10:24:00 AM
Didn’t we forget that Capitalism collapsed and is in fact dead? That Bush was called a socialist?
Socialism has many strains, but can be really good -it’s Capitalism, but just not unfettered.
Hey, let’s hope we are merely talking Socialism, and not some “New World Order” furthered by Bush/Obama.
I’d say the American people are the Joker -we’re nutty:)
Irwin Schwab said, on 8/6/2009 10:49:00 AM
Jackie, Mark, would you please link to these dangerous scary people you claim are demanding the creator of this image “come forward”?
Jimmie Robinson said, on 8/6/2009 12:42:00 PM
I’m going to use this image in the next Bomb Queen, haha!
Jimbino said, on 8/6/2009 12:47:00 PM
The point of the image is simple: the joke is on us.
Mark Engblom said, on 8/6/2009 1:14:00 PM
Irwin-
Here’s a couple of examples:
Los Angeles Urban Policy Roundtable President Earl Ofari Hutchinson is challenging the group responsible for the poster to come forward (from an KTLA News piece).
“Depicting the president as demonic and a socialist goes beyond political spoofery,” says Hutchinson, “it is mean-spirited and dangerous.”
“We have issued a public challenge to the person or group that put up the poster to come forth and publicly tell why they have used this offensive depiction to ridicule President Obama.”
“Trying to possibly spread this imagery of the Obama joker poster is only cowardice. If you really feel that he is a socialist then come forward and say it during the proper places. No one can tell you how to feel or think and that’s one of the things that makes this country great. So just speak in a public forum about your anger if you are upset with his policies.”
Mark, your first example is someone talking about whoever hung up the poster in a specific location, not a call to track down the artist. The second is someone saying that speaking publicly would be a more effective way of making an argument than circulating an image of the first black president in whiteface. Neither one, crucially, says anything at all about the creator of this image.
So, two swings and two misses. Care for a third?
pulphope said, on 8/6/2009 5:07:00 PM
How about we all just OBEY.
Naveen said, on 8/6/2009 5:54:00 PM
This is a good piece of art in the sense that it makes you stop and look.
Of course, the no-nothings who actually think Obama is a socialist, or neo-socialist, or whatever don’t actually care or know that the Joke is/was an anarchist. That’s too much thinking for them.
And to echo the person above, Obama’s not even a die-hard liberal, let alone a socialist.
Mark Engblom said, on 8/7/2009 9:49:00 AM
Irwin, you asked for examples. I gave them to you. Move along.
Commentators have pointed out that Drew Friedman did George W. Bush as the Joker last year for Vanity Fair. Part of his comment re accusations of hypocrisy:
The Obama/Joker image just doesn’t work as satire, humor or anything else. You can put the white face Joker makeup on any celebrity or politician and you’d have a provocative, negative image, but beyond that, what’s the actual point? What does being a supposed Socialist have to do with The Joker?
Irwin said: “I asked for examples of people “demanding the creator of this image ‘come forward’”. You failed to do so…”
Wait…you’re hung up on the word “creator”? Seriously? Here’s a line from the first article I linked to. How is this NOT what you were looking for?
“Hutchinson is challenging the group or individual that put up the poster to have the courage and decency to publicly identify themselves.”
Most rational people would understand that the intent behind Hutchinson’s request is the same whether or not the person who put up the poster was its creator. You’re splitting hairs, chum…and not looking at the larger and more disturbing point of someone “challenging” an anonymous person to identify him or herself.
Irwin Schwab said, on 8/7/2009 10:55:00 PM
No, Mark, I asked you to back up your statements and you’re quite patently not able to do that. You yourself claimed that “The cries for the designer to “come forward” are as chilling as anything portrayed in “V for Vendetta” and similar “watch out for the facist right-wingers” folklore.” And yet, you can’t find a single instance of anyone actually crying for the designer to come forward. So, please, get down off your high horse.
Any story that includes the terms “Mexican midget wrestler” and “hooker” (or “sexoservidoras” as they are called in Mexico) might seem ripe for comedy, but the murder of two pint- sized luchadores is no laughing matter. As reported in the NY Post and elsewhere, Alberto and Alejandro Jimenez, aka La Parkita and El Espectrito Jr., twin brothers who wrestled together in various Lucha and US indies, were found dead in a Medico City hotel room, apparently after being poisoned by two women they hired to come back to their hotel.
The 35-year-old little wrestlers, or luchadores, were first approached by the deadly call girls in the hotel lobby, where the brothers went after filming a match at a nearby ring for television.
The twins were apparently slipped the poison though an eye-dropper into their alcoholic drinks.
A rash of similar black widow-style attacks on men in bars by ladies of the evening has broken out in Mexico.
About 20 women, connected to a gang called “The Leak” or “The Drops,” have been busted in Mexico in the past year for the booze-drug scam.
It’s believed that the dosage that would merely knock out a normal sized man was fatal to the twins.
Meanwhile, La Parkita and El Espectrito Jr — “LIttle Death” and Little Ghost” — were popular enough that folks dressed up in their masks at a memorial service, leading to a series of surreal photos. (There’s an even more surreal one here, but it’s too sad to run.)
While the obviously lurid aspects of the story have created much of the interest, it has also raised even more of an outcry in the Mexican press for a crack down on these thieving gangs. For if a midget wrestler is not safe…who is?
No comment.
4 Comments on Midget wrestler murders rock Mexico, last added: 7/6/2009
As us nerds remember all too well from high school, the “jock clique” and the “geek clique” don’t often mix well. So, imagine what it was like the other day when the Mets (the favored team in Stately Beat Manor) arrived at their hotel in Pittsburgh to see a furry convention going on.
That led to a discussion about on the air last night between Mets broadcasters Gary Cohen and Keith Hernandez. Uniwatch has the transcipt, including this gem:
Hernandez: I saw a guy with, with his pet beaver. He had his hand, he was stroking it, he was petting it. [Long pause.] I’m serious! It was a, like a stuffed animal, and he was comforting it. Very bizarre.
No word about whether Mr. Met got any action from anyone dressed like a cat.
[posted by mark coale]
8 Comments on When Worlds Collide, last added: 7/5/2009
Oh, come on give us some credit, the furry crowd exists well outside the “geek clique”
Jimmie Robinson said, on 7/3/2009 11:57:00 AM
I’ve always said there is little difference between rabid sports fans who dress up, paint themselves in the team colors and costumes and the comics fans, who… dress up, paint themselves and wear costumes. Granted I think that leans more on NFL football fans than baseball.
As for the Furry convention… yeah, it’s a hard sell to the man on the street. But they are harmless folks.
Sean D. said, on 7/3/2009 1:52:00 PM
We laugh. But when we have Mr. Met showing up late for games and reeking of stale beer because the Phillie Phanatic won’t return his phone calls…
Ron Marz said, on 7/3/2009 2:31:00 PM
Photo of Mets beat reporter with said beaver here:
I’ve been to a lot of cons, but that shit scares even me.
Alan Coil said, on 7/3/2009 10:13:00 PM
Pardon The Interruption is a daily 30-minute sports talk show. They covered the furry-versus-sports story today, with the 60-years-old guy telling the furries to stay away from him — even though none were near him. In fact, he was commenting on the story from a completely different location.
I like sports, but I’ve never painted my body, never had my shirt off during a game where the wind chill was -20 degrees, and think the incessant discussion of sports statistics is a waste of time. And I’ve never gotten drunk and into a fight with opposing fans.
Elin Winkler said, on 7/4/2009 1:09:00 PM
Anthrocon last year had about 3400 attendees so it’s one of the largest furry conventions there is, and the first to break the 3000-attendees mark. It also brings about $3 million to the Pittsburgh economy and is among the city’s top ten largest conventions- not exactly something to sneeze at. ^_^
The baseball players were there last year, too, and just as freaked out by the “weirdos”. But the city was delighted to have them- dozens of downtown restaurants were offering specials for Anthrocon patrons, and were extremely welcoming and friendly.
But yeah, furries are just harmless fen. ^_^ I really don’t get the furry hate that goes on, since they usually tend to keep almost entirely to themselves.
Xenos said, on 7/5/2009 12:59:00 AM
I once went to an anime con in Baltimore when they played the Yankees at nearby Camden Yards. Rather hilarious to see die hard Yankee fans gawkin at all the cosplayers
Torsten Adair said, on 7/5/2009 8:17:00 AM
Furries are okay… It’s the PTs (clown fans) that are bizarre. Geez… If two Peteys show up wearing slightly similar make-up (”smiles”) there’s a f*cking gang war. And don’t get me started on the sub-groups… whitefacers, blackfacers, harlequins, scareys, Tammy Faes… *shudder*
I’m a pretty tolerant geek… even of the embarrassing kind that make us “normal” fans blush. But clown fans? Gimme a sharpened cricket bat… I’ll make ‘em laugh to death…
If our Twitter feed is to be believed, we follow a very high percentage of people who are interested in a) watching GHOSTBUSTERS or b) purchasing the new GHOSTBUSTERS on Blu-ray or c) purchasing the new GHOSTBUSTERS video game. Perhaps this brain trust could help us answer why GHOSTBUSTERS was so great and GHOSTBUSTERS 2 is probably the lamest sequel to a beloved film ever. Our own theory? Ivan Reitman is just a very bad director.
Speaking of Twitter, one of those who was engaged in the GHOSTBUSTERS hunt was Geoff Johns, whose recent Twitterings are showcasing his storytelling skills in a stunning way. Last night’s tale of a stolen bicycle, a large slurpee and a friendly 7-11 clerk should have come with a Danny Elfman soundtrack.
As for other Twitterings, the comics world quite rightly rallied with support when Len Wein’s house sustained a serious fire…will they be as supportive for his latest setback?:
Off to a Father’s Day brunch w/@mcvalada and son. Starting to think today’s the day I’m gonna pass the kidney stone. Suspense mounts.
My love for Ghostbusters 2 knows no bounds. I love whenever Ghostbusters is brought up, but despise it at the same time, as I know the Ghostbusters 2 hate will soon follow.
“Yeah, I know Bass Masters… sure.”
Douglas E. Sherwood said, on 6/22/2009 12:41:00 PM
Since when is Ghostbusters 2 “probably the lamest sequel?”
I’ve never met a single person who feels this way, and I’m friends with plenty of Ghostbuster fans…
Torsten Adair said, on 6/22/2009 12:54:00 PM
Ah… how easy it is to forget… That month of box office was a (near) perfect storm… Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, a weekend box office record. Next weekend, Ghostbusters II, another record set. The next weekend would have seen another record, had Star Trek V not sucked so much (although Nichelle Nichols did get to sing). And the weekend after that? The event of the summer. The first Midnight screening of a blockbuster. A movie that made comicbook t-shirts fashionable. A serious actor playing a comedian, and a comedian playing a serious role. (And another comedian playing comic relief to Kim Basinger.)
(And I still think an African-American Two-Face would have been brilliant, even if it was Billy Dee Williams.)
Ben McCool said, on 6/22/2009 1:03:00 PM
Ghostbusters 2 is a mildly enjoyable yet ultimately slapdash and disappointing sequel. Formulaic, unimaginative writing, old ideas badly disguised as new ones, and a duo of antagonists so lame that even Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy seem like a formidable team-up.
Ben McCool said, on 6/22/2009 1:06:00 PM
Not the worst sequel, though. Highlander 2, Staying Alive and Speed 2 are amongst the strongest contenders for THAT crown…
Tommy Raiko said, on 6/22/2009 1:14:00 PM
“Our own theory? Ivan Reitman is just a very bad director.”
Ivan Reitman didn’t write the thing, did he? When I think of how GHOSTBUSTERS 2 disappointed, I think of plot/story elements–the comparative lameness of the river of slime being such a big deal (yeah, “He slimed me.” was a great line, but ectoplasmic ooze is not why we liked the the first movie, and it’s not like having twice as much slime makes for a twice as good movie); a giant ambulatory Statue of Liberty would probably have seemed more cool had we not already had the even-cooler giant ambulatory Mashmallow Man; etc.–and not directorial elements.
The Beat said, on 6/22/2009 1:21:00 PM
Sure the script was lame but can you honestly say Reitman ever made a good movie aside from Ghostbusters 1? He made both the movie where Ahnold is twins with Danny DiVito AND the movie where Ahnold is PREGNANT. Surely that qualifies for some circle of hell.
Torsten brings up a good point — the summer of 89 was indeed a record setting one for BO, and the other sequels were pretty sure fire. But given how important the whole “franchise” idea is to Hollywood, it’s remarkable how a surefire idea like GHOSTBUSTERS 2 came out so lifeless.
Perhaps there is a simpler explanation: as Bill Murray goes, so goes the franchise. In 2 he’s totally phoning it in.
Ben McCool said, on 6/22/2009 1:27:00 PM
But Tommy, the movie is badly paced; even if this is due to the script’s inefficiencies, it’s down to the director to sharpen things up. Also, he’s responsible for ensuring we have well represented characters to care about. As Bill Murray noted upon the film’s release, “it was a whole lot of slime and not much of us.”
Ivan Reitman’s directorial resume on IMDb, for the record, reads like a magnum opus of arse-biting awfulness.
Ryan Higgins said, on 6/22/2009 1:31:00 PM
@Douglas - The only people that hate Ghostbusters 2 are internet people. Most real people like it.
I also found out the internet hates the first two Spider-Man movies a few weeks ago. That crazy internet!
Bill Reed said, on 6/22/2009 1:54:00 PM
Ghostbusters II? Lame? I’ve never understood this. It is equally as good as the first one; one of the strongest sequels ever made.
chris7crows said, on 6/22/2009 2:04:00 PM
Hard to say why “Ghostbusters 2″ was so disappointing, but I’m sure the pressure to make everything “bigger” while sacrificing the odd but amusing little plot elements and extensive ad libbing of the original was a large part of it. You get the impression from watching the film that no one involved really had their heart in it, but the physics of Hollywood were such that a sequel had to be made regardless, and enough money was put on the table to make it happen.
Also, hard to top Gozer the Gozerian as a villain.
But yes, as someone remarked above, “Speed 2″ takes the crown for all-time worst sequel (exposure to computers gave the villain “copper blood poisoning”? Whuzzah?), but “Spider-Man 3″ is a serious challenger.
Chad said, on 6/22/2009 2:52:00 PM
“Sure the script was lame but can you honestly say Reitman ever made a good movie aside from Ghostbusters 1?”
Neither movie is Citizen Kane or anything, but I think Stripes and Meatballs qualify. Perhaps a better question is whether Reitman ever made a good movie not starring Bill Murray.
Mark Coale said, on 6/22/2009 3:50:00 PM
My loathing of Highlander II holds no bounds. I was so upset when I saw it that I not gave the review an “I” for Incomplete, but wrote a separate column about horrible movie sequels. It shows what can happen when you have the same starts and the same director, but not the same writer who came up with the idea.
evan dorkin said, on 6/22/2009 4:48:00 PM
If you want real Reitman hell, watch Evolution. It’s Ghostbusters with dinosaur monsters, similar scenes and plot points, similar set-up, a cute monster at one point that turns angry like Slimer, etc. It also has no charm, chemistry or wit, blighted with lousy performances, braindead direction and a script that makes Ghostbusters 2 look like Aliens. Sad, sad rotten little movie, naked, uncreative grab at former success. I saw it on cable and still wanted my money back.
Another 48 Hours is another sad sequel. Templated to the original. much like G2. Ditto Escape From L.A., two guys sitting around smoking pot and transferring the Escape From NY script to L.A., practically a scene for scene remake, with lousier effects, some of Carpenter’s clunkiest action direction ever, and surfing. And they managed to waste Bruce Campbell, which is a crime, a crime, I say.
Holy shit, I’m talking about movies on the internet. Must have forgotten to take my medication again…
Sean D. said, on 6/22/2009 5:47:00 PM
Reitman’s sins in the make up of GB2 are a contributing factor (btw, I liked TWINS), but I maintain Dan Akroyd and Harold Ramis should not not have absolution just because of their trying to salvage things on screen.
Without Belushi as his muse, Akroyd’s scripts have resulted is some really bad/misguided films. (See also Nothing But Trouble, Coneheads and Blues Brothers 2000). Ramis had the lead writing credit on GB2, but this was not the Ramis of Caddyshack, Stripes and Back To School. GB2 has on display the Ramis of Caddyshack II, Meatballs 3 and Rover Dangerfield.
The fact that Columbia/Tri-Star, having licensed GB to animation and toys, would also factor in with the suits pushing for it to be more “kid friendly” and “more Slimer” may also what’s leaving a bad taste in our mouths.
The Beat said, on 6/22/2009 6:13:00 PM
Having just seen the extremely…tepid (but good natured) YEAR ONE, also written by Ramis — many years ago — I can say that consistency is not his strength either.
Jeez, these 80’s comedy icons of ours are surprisingly thin.
Tommy Raiko said, on 6/22/2009 7:29:00 PM
“Sure the script was lame but can you honestly say Reitman ever made a good movie aside from Ghostbusters 1?”
Well, I’d give him STRIPES as a good one, but I take your point; Reitman’s directorial credits certainly don’t make up a roster of awesomeness.
Still, I once heard a saying that if everything about a movie is good, the director should get a lot of the credit, and if a movie is bad, the director might not necessarily deserve all the blame.
Which, I realize, is probably a bit of conventional wisdom developed by members of the DGA, but it’s still something that springs to mind during all this discussion…
John said, on 6/22/2009 9:46:00 PM
Ivan Reitman may not be a good director, but the real problems I have with Ghostbusters 2 is in the plot/script. Sum up what the characters go through, the situations, the bad guy, etc., and it just doesn’t sound all that great. I can’t imagine another director really making it a better film, unless a sign of their quality was to say “this script is crap” and have the thing rewritten before shooting.
The other thing I could never grasp was the breaking of the fourth wall by having the “2″ ghost logo on the building and costumes.
Mark Coale said, on 6/22/2009 11:11:00 PM
This discussion reminds me of the “Ghost Chasers 3″ episode of the Critic.
Ian Boothby said, on 6/23/2009 1:49:00 AM
You make Stripes, Meatballs and Ghostbusters you get cut a break for Evolution and Ghostbusters 2.
The game’s pretty fun on the PS3
Keith said, on 6/23/2009 8:37:00 AM
I like GB2 a lot more NOW than I did before. It’s grown on me over the years. Plus, the Bobby Brown theme is pure awesomeness. “found out about vigo/the master of evil/try to battle my boys?/that’s not legal!”
Torsten Adair said, on 6/23/2009 9:56:00 AM
Wow… people mention bad sequels on a comics board, and no one considers “Batman & Robin”? “Son of the Mask”? “Superman IV”?
Ditto to Ian– the new Ghostbusters game (the PS3 version, at least) is a total kick in the pants. A number of my coworkers have been enjoying it as well.
Cheese said, on 6/23/2009 4:33:00 PM
Hating Ghostbusters 2 is not just an internet meme, I’ve hated that movie since before the internet.
How did they explain that all the GB’s gear (including the Ecto-1) has the GB2 movie logo on it?
Dana was a classical musician turned art restorer?
That said, we watched GB2 on Sunday too. My girlfriend had never seen it because she had always heard it was awful. She now wants those 2 hours back.
Jason Michelitch said, on 6/24/2009 7:44:00 AM
I’m no fan of Reitman, but it always irks me when the success or failure for a film are laid at the feet of the director. Reitman’s work on Ghostbusters 1 (and Stripes) proves he’s not a terrible director, but that he is JUST a director. He’s not a cinematic artist or a writer or anything but a guy who can shoot a script to the script’s strengths, when the script has strengths. If he has a bad script he, like so many other directors, can only sit around with their thumbs up their butts. I guess I’m not so much arguing in favor of Reitman as saying that this isn’t an extreme example of directorial incompetence, but rather par for the course in Hollywood.
Misawa was arguably the wrestler of the 1990s (or Kobashi).
Many weird things related to the death:
– The Wrestler had just opened in Japan and had been advertised heavily during NOAH’s TV show.
– Saito’s belly to back suplex, the move on which Misawa was injured, is apparently called “The Death Landing.”
– It’s probable he and his partner were supposed to win the match and the tag team belts.
there are many great Misawa matches for people to see onyoutube and other similar places, but I’m not sure seeing him take or give big head dropping moves is what you want to see right now.
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 6/13/2009 7:19:00 PM
I’m always torn when it comes to wrestling. I really do love what those guys do, and admire them for it, but at the same time the price they pay is so high. I’ve tried not watching, but in the end I can’t help myself. Something tells me that they’d do it anyway, even if no on watched but still… It’s like I watch ever Jeff Hardy match wondering if this is the time he kills himself, because I couldn’t stop egging him on by tuning in again and again. My prayers to out to Mr. Misawa and his family.
Jamie Coville said, on 6/13/2009 7:30:00 PM
That is a sad end to wrestling great. RIP
Nick Manning said, on 6/13/2009 9:16:00 PM
Looking for Mitsuharu Misawa Death Tape does anyone have it.
Brendan T said, on 6/13/2009 11:23:00 PM
I’ve gone extensively into this elsewhere. The DVDVR board has a terrific thread about it with people giving their thoughts and feelings on the matter, myself included (as The Unholy Dragon)
RIP Misawa-san. Arigato.
Brendan T said, on 6/13/2009 11:23:00 PM
I’ve gone extensively into this elsewhere. The DVDVR board has a terrific thread about it with people giving their thoughts and feelings on the matter, myself included (as The Unholy Dragon)
RIP Misawa-san. Arigato.
Joe said, on 6/15/2009 12:02:00 AM
This was not “an in-ring accident”. This is the same manuever that Misawa has taken at least a thousand times in his career,executed as intended, the same manuever that no human being in his right mind should take even once. At 46, Misawa’s body was like a rotten apple, still looking okay on the outside, but completely broken down on the inside, waiting for that one final blow that would send it into complete collapse.
But we look at sick moves even more spectacular than that and chant “HOLY SH*T!” and “THIS IS AWESOME!” So more people will keep doing it to get that same response, someone else will be killed or paralyzed on a routine move, and we’ll all be here again talking about how sad we are that such a tragic “accident” happened.
We’re guessing it was a sad day at Stately Beat Manor Saturday, as it was in the Helper Monkey’s cave, to see Manchester United capture yet another Premier League title. Of course, this is emotion partially born out of envy. Both FMB’s Villains and the Helper Monkey’s Toffees will finish again out of the Top Four and will spend next season competing for the Europa Cup instead of cashing big checks in the Champions League.
And now, with the season in England and Italy and Spain almost over, we turn our attention to … MLS? Nah, we’ll stick to baseball.
10 Comments on Another Win for the Bad Guys, last added: 5/21/2009
As a toffee, I’d just be happy that at least those muppets from Anfield didn’t win.
Colin (Part 2) said, on 5/18/2009 3:55:00 AM
Yeah us muppets from Anfield are kopping it double bad as well as the evil Uniteds’s win puts them level with us on 18 titles. Mind we beat them in the tie breaker of the number of European Cups we’ve won so we’re still the most successful team in the country (but damn we’d better keep up the progress and win the Premiership next season just to wipe that scum grin off Fergusons face)
Torsten Adair said, on 5/18/2009 8:07:00 AM
Major League Baseball would be much more interesting if we followed the German Bundesliga system of promotion and relegation. (The two worst teams from the first league switch places with the two best teams from the second league.) Of course, we would need to retool the farm system…
Richard said, on 5/18/2009 9:40:00 AM
Heidi, please let FMB know that his prayers for a Villa win on Sunday would be most welcome, thus putting Newcastle down and ensuring that Molly’s adopted team, Hull, stay up. And at least next year he’ll have a near guarantee of 6 points from wonderful Wolves.
Jim D. said, on 5/18/2009 9:59:00 AM
Hey, I know it’s not the EPL (or La Liga, or Serie A, or, or, or) but you might have more love for MLS if the New York team didn’t suck so bad, and have such a shitty game atmosphere. I don’t think I’d be a fan of MLS either, if all I had was the Pink Cows - sorry, Red Bulls.
And here’s hoping Barca will put the hurt on Man U on the 27th!
mark coale said, on 5/18/2009 10:51:00 AM
Actually, my local team is the fairly successful (except finding a new home) dc united.
Jim D. said, on 5/18/2009 1:57:00 PM
Wait, you live in DC and you’re “sticking to baseball”? You *are* a glutton for punishment. The Nats are a joke, and the O’s aren’t much better. Unless you’re talking about the Bowie Baysox or something…
And if you’ve been to DC United games and didn’t have a good time, you’re sitting in the wrong section…
Ben McCool said, on 5/18/2009 2:59:00 PM
Inhabiting one of the two places outside of the Champion’s League spots isn’t disastrous; Villa’s last ten or so games have been. Truly the worst “entertainment” to endure since Posh Spice started singing.
Mark Coale said, on 5/18/2009 5:48:00 PM
I don’t live in DC. United are just the “closest” team to me, although that will change when Philadelphia joins in a couple years.
I had a mostly good time the one trip to RFK to see United, except that it rained, if memory serves.
On the other hand, I went to see the Galaxy play last year vs Salt Lake, during a time they were missing both Golden Balls and Landy Cakes. It was a fairly dull game, even though it ended in a 2-2 draw.
From what I understand, Seattle or Toronto are the closest thing to a European atmosphere in the league now. I’d like to see matches there.
Jon Cormier said, on 5/19/2009 10:07:00 AM
Please have a word with your team regarding their performance this coming Sunday. They can easily break my heart for the next ten months by relegating Newcastle (even if they deserve it after this terrible, terrible season).
* Did Dr. Manhattan shoot his load the first weekend?
Depending on whom you talked to this week, the opening weekend box office for WATCHMEN was great or underwhelming. Things look a little clearer after the first night of weekend number two.
Warner Bros./Paramount’s comic book epic “Watchmen” fell 78% from its opening day landing third Friday with an estimated $5.4 million from 3,611 theaters. Pic’s eight-day cume currently stands at $73.3 million.
Did all the fanboys decide they didn’t need a second viewing? Was word-of-mouth outside the nerd bubble not great? Were people scared off by Dr. Manhattan’s package? * In other nerd news
Time.com’s Nerdworld blog interviews annotator extraordinaire Jess Nevins. (Disclaimer: Jess and I went to grad school together and his work has appeared in my magazine.)
9. Have you, as an annotator, ever gone down in defeat? Are there things in the LoEG books that you just can’t solve?
Oh, heavens, yes. When Moore & O’Neill get into areas which I don’t know anything about and which are ill-represented online and in print–1950s British comic book science fiction, for example–I’m at a complete loss, and some of their references stump even the collective brains of the people who contribute to the annotations. In the Black Dossier, for example, Kevin O’Neill drew in spaceships from various British Fifties sf comics, and if he hadn’t identified them for the print version of the annotations, they would have remained a mystery to us all.
Moore sometimes jokes about trying to stump me. I feel a pain in my head when he says that, because if/when he ever tries to do that, I’m not just stumped, I’m uprooted and thrown into a woodchipper.
*Since there was no Lost column this week…
A week without a new Lost means an extra week for people to scrutinize the most recent episode looking for clues about the statue or how to put all the various time traveling threads together. The coolest thing I read (don’t remember where) was that the hieroglyphs that showed up on the countdown clock are on the Ajira airline tickets.
*A non-comic note for all you people who hate non-comics news here.
Sad news this morning for the pro wrestling business as word broke that Andrew Martin passed away at the age of 33. For those who watched during the “Attitude Era,” Martin worked for the WWE as Test, a beefy mid-carder best remembered for being coupled with a young Stephanie McMahon and feuding with her brother Shane. While not the best in-ring performer, many people raved about the match between Test and McMahon at Summerslam 1999. Once removed from the McMahon family soap opera, he slowly drifted down the card until being released a few years ago from the WWE after failing a drug test. Recently, he had been working on shows in Europe and Japan.
Posted by Mark Coale
33 Comments on Weekend Newsy Notes, last added: 3/19/2009
What is it with the movie industry and the need to judge a film’s success NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!
I remember thinking it was idiotic that they were basing success solely off of opening weekend numbers. I’m impressed that they’re willing to look at the second week this time — but come on, we’re talking ONE DAY of the second weekend. Because, no one EVER goes to movies on Saturday or Sunday, right? (For the record: seeing Watchmen for the first time on Sunday. Apparently my ticket doesn’t count.)
At this rate they’ll be judging films entirely on the sales at midnight showings opening day.
Scott Christian Sava said, on 3/14/2009 3:00:00 PM
Hey. Congrats to the Rock and Race to Witch Mountain for taking number one this weekend!
This is good news.
Nat Gertler said, on 3/14/2009 3:03:00 PM
And we’re comparing one day of a second weekend to a day of the first weekend -that had midnight showings from the night before counted in.-
Watchmen is also an inherently a tricky nighttime showing. Whereas most movies can put in two showings on a screen to start at the after-dinner hours and end by eleven, Watchmen can only fit in one, making the Friday numbers a poor predictor for even Saturday.
It’s interesting, it’s a curious game, but it hardly tells us how profitable the film will be once the world rights, the cable rights, the DVD rights, and all the other financial capillaries are counted in.
Steven R. Stahl said, on 3/14/2009 3:04:00 PM
Given all the hype and expectations for WATCHMEN, it’s not enough for the film to make a profit. The film has to be a blockbuster, and that burden makes the 78 percent drop in revenue significant. If masses of fans aren’t paying to see the film repeatedly — and the “R” rating will decrease the potential viewer base.
SRS
dave roman said, on 3/14/2009 4:13:00 PM
I actually want to see Watchmen a second time!
Wraith said, on 3/14/2009 4:23:00 PM
In regards to WATCHMEN movie’s under performance at the box office, I told you guys so.
Raffaele Ienco said, on 3/14/2009 5:11:00 PM
If you check out Box Office Mojo you can see Watchmen has already passed 100 million worldwide.
It’ll do fine.
I saw it, but yeah, incredibly hard to top the graphic novel experience.
DRMM said, on 3/14/2009 6:41:00 PM
R.I.P Andrew Martin
Charles Knight said, on 3/14/2009 7:26:00 PM
“What is it with the movie industry and the need to judge a film’s success NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!”
Because it’s a money focused commerical business with clearly defined metrics for determining the success or failure of a film in relation to it’s budget+marketing spend?
Just a guess?
“Did all the fanboys decide they didn’t need a second viewing?”
I would actually watch it again but not so soon - when I think about the film length plus getting to the cinema and back - it’s six hours of time that I’d rather not spend repeating *last* weekend, so I’ll wait for the extended DVD.
Charles Knight said, on 3/14/2009 7:26:00 PM
“What is it with the movie industry and the need to judge a film’s success NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!”
Because it’s a money focused commerical business with clearly defined metrics for determining the success or failure of a film in relation to it’s budget+marketing spend?
Just a guess?
“Did all the fanboys decide they didn’t need a second viewing?”
I would actually watch it again but not so soon - when I think about the film length plus getting to the cinema and back - it’s six hours of time that I’d rather not spend repeating *last* weekend, so I’ll wait for the extended DVD.
KET said, on 3/14/2009 7:53:00 PM
“It’s interesting, it’s a curious game, but it hardly tells us how profitable the film will be once the world rights, the cable rights, the DVD rights, and all the other financial capillaries are counted in.”
It simply doesn’t matter. Warners overspent on the movie, not only in production, but in mis-marketing the film so that few outside of the select fanboy faithful even knew what is was. Overseas, the film is already reportedly tanking in most world markets on its FIRST weekend.
One also has to take into account that WB won’t be the only ones taking a financial hit if the movie’s merely a one-weekend wonder. Remember, they had to fight off Fox a few months ago to even release it, and Paramount also owns a piece of this expensive pie. DVD sales might recoup some of the box office losses; but then again, what kind of financial incentive will there be for WB to release a multi-disc “Director’s Cut” version?
KET
Charles Knight said, on 3/14/2009 8:41:00 PM
“but then again, what kind of financial incentive will there be for WB to release a multi-disc “Director’s Cut” version?”
Oh a lot, the material exists and they need that an audience will buy it.
not....guy said, on 3/15/2009 9:49:00 AM
well, when the world around you is bleak and depressing, you don’t really want to watch a movie about how much people (even “superheroes”) tend to suck.
The target demographic for this film is the one hurting the most right now in this economy, also. Food is likely a higher priority than an overpriced film experience.
Also, just because something doesn’t meet your expectations doesn’t mean it’s underperforming. It’s making about as much as I expected it to–maybe slightly more–so does that mean it’s doing fantastically well? It’s a hard sell in a tough economy with an obvious lack of a “feel-good story” element. It’s lucky to be doing as well as it is.
Sphinx Magoo said, on 3/15/2009 10:05:00 AM
Maybe what the viewing public needs is some escapism, some laughs, a chance to see some deserving heroes win, something lighter that might make them smile and offer some hope. There’s a reason why musicals and screwball comedies did so well in the 1930s. “Serious filmmakers” ought to review their copies of “Sullivan’s Travels” and save their “serious” works for a bit.
Oz Carver said, on 3/15/2009 10:36:00 AM
re: Watchmen, I’m sure there are one or two smart producers out there who realize that Watchmen didn’t fail because it was serious anymore than Dark Knight succeeded because it was serious — like all movies, they live or die on the strength of their story, direction, cast and acting. And what I saw in Watchmen was bad acting, uninteresting actors, half-bright direction and a story that was hard to follow for people who hadn’t read the graphic novel. (I liked the soundtrack!)
Admittedly, I went into it expecting not to like it and wasn’t even going to see it at all until a couple of non-comic-reading friends strongarmed me into going. So maybe my view is tainted, but they both felt the same way. All three of us loved Dark Knight, for what it’s worth…
I’m reading the Watchmen GN before I go see the movie.
Already, by chapter 5, I can picture the average non comic reader movie-goer sitting in the theatre, Biggie Popcorn in one hand, Biggie Soda in the other, thinking (without visible thought balloons) : “What th’ ????”
Kelson said, on 3/15/2009 2:48:00 PM
Because it’s a money focused commerical business with clearly defined metrics for determining the success or failure of a film in relation to it’s budget+marketing spend?
I’m not saying they don’t have metrics — I’m saying the metrics are incomplete and represent a (sadly common) tendency to care more about being first than about being right.
Judging a whole weekend by Friday night is like calling the U.S. Presidential election based solely on the results from the eastern seaboard.
chris7crows said, on 3/15/2009 3:15:00 PM
Here’s a crazy idea: Maybe the movie is simply not all that great, and the domestic box office reflects that. No deeper cultural readings required.
jimmy palmiotti said, on 3/15/2009 3:35:00 PM
why would anyone that enjoys comics wish a single negative thing towards watchmen? they gave it a shot…good or bad, i am glad it got made.
and yeah, worldwide, it will be just fine.
chris7crows said, on 3/15/2009 3:40:00 PM
“why would anyone that enjoys comics wish a single negative thing towards watchmen?”
There’s a difference between “wishing something negative” towards “Watchmen” and observing that it’s not the most transcendent movie-going experience of our lifetimes.
Besides, swap “Watchmen” with “League of Extraordinary Gentlemen” in the preceeding sentence and tell me if the sentiment still holds.
Nat Gertler said, on 3/15/2009 3:53:00 PM
KET: If the actual profitability “simply doesn’t matter”, then I guess I miss what this conversation is about. If it’s just about the movie outsiders’ game of comparing the box office results to some expected box office results, I fail to see how that matters to anything. (And all of the talk of how this is a bomb, a flop, and the public just doesn’t want to see it is a bit odd on the movie that had the biggest first weekend of the year, the second-biggest second weekend of the year, the biggest first 10 days of the year.)
Alan Coil said, on 3/15/2009 4:05:00 PM
The epitaph on the Watchmen movie:
“Naked Blue Penis didn’t rise to the occasion.”
not....guy said, on 3/16/2009 12:41:00 AM
“like all movies, they live or die on the strength of their story, direction, cast and acting.”
Since when? Which alternate universe are you in where quality actually matters in the movie business?
“And what I saw in Watchmen was bad acting, uninteresting actors, half-bright direction and a story that was hard to follow”
Understandable, but I liked the actors and their performances and the director’s ability to tell the story and his directing choices and the story made more sense to me as a film than it did in TPB form.
Todd Allen said, on 3/16/2009 1:54:00 AM
IIRC from my Stern media economics course, the percentage of ticket price kept by the studio is higher the first week of release and then evens out over the next 6 weeks or so, so there’s good reason for emphasis on first week. And with most films, you usually do have a pretty good idea how it’s going to do after Friday’s numbers come in. The longer one have few showings, so that skews, and every once in a while, you get a correction when the final numbers come in Monday, but there’s a normal pattern.
Personally, I’ve found you can get a pretty good idea how a film will do by going to a noon showing on Friday and seeing how full the place is. If it’s packed, you’ve got a hit. If it’s half-full that’s normal. If it’s less than half-full, time to sweat.
nathan aaron said, on 3/16/2009 8:09:00 AM
Man, I don’t get all the talk about Dr. Manhattan’s naked blue penis!? I swear, this country! In fact (ok, maybe this has something to do with being gay, Ha ha) I didn’t think there was ENOUGH blue penis! I mean, after all that hype, THAT’S all we got? I mean, it’s just there. It did nothing. Get over it.
And WHAT is with all the hate thrown at poor Malin Ackerman? I thought she was great! In fact, she was one of the highlights of the movie for me! In a film so dark and brutal, she was about the only “light innocence” we had in the movie. I’m not sure WHY I thought of her character in that way, but that’s how she came across to me. I really thought she did a good job, and there seems to be so much dislike for her, on the net/in reviews. (And again, this is coming from a gay guy, so it wasn’t all about her “hotness” for me.)
ALSO (I swear I’m not crazy. Go, watch it again closely) does she not look like the spitting image of a John Romita Jr. drawing! When they do side shot closeups of her face during the movie - her nose, the shape of her face, and the cut of her wig. Man, I have to do a side by side comparison! It was like John Romita Jr. sketched her into the flick! I know I sound seriously insane, but it’s true! I’ll have to mock up a side by side…
tsj017 said, on 3/16/2009 9:54:00 AM
Saw it for a second time yesterday.
Liked it even more upon second viewing.
I honestly don’t get all the negativity. Ackerman and Goode were fine, the altered ending worked (it was different only in detail), I didn’t even notice the giant blue dong after the first couple of shots, the sex scene was no more laughable than any other Hollywood sex scene, and so on.
Remember that Sam Hamm script that was circulating back in the early-mid 90s? Think about THAT. Think of just how badly Hollywood COULD’VE screwed this up.
For a big-budget Hollywood blockbuster, it’s probably the best Watchmen movie we could’ve hoped for.
Forget the haters. This was a great movie.
And if it’s “tanking” at the box office . . . well, that just means that no studio pinheads will be clamoring for a sequel. Thank God.
Alan Coil said, on 3/16/2009 11:01:00 AM
“Man, I don’t get all the talk about Dr. Manhattan’s naked blue penis!? I swear, this country! In fact (ok, maybe this has something to do with being gay, Ha ha) I didn’t think there was ENOUGH blue penis! I mean, after all that hype, THAT’S all we got? I mean, it’s just there. It did nothing. Get over it.”
And doesn’t its blue coloring indicate coldness? Wouldn’t that also indicate shrinkage? Man, that thing musta been huge!
Glenn Simpson said, on 3/16/2009 3:31:00 PM
I was sorta distracted by the fact that Akerman had a fake mole that wasn’t covered up by makeup but a real mole that was.
ed said, on 3/16/2009 5:02:00 PM
So: initial Box Office failure, critical drubbing by the major reviewers, fanboys up in arms at the unfaithfulness to the source material, the general public turned off by the dark and dense storyline in an economic recession, and directed by someone who used to do tv ads and known for his visual flair in genre films— where have I heard this before?
WATCHMEN is the new BLADE RUNNER. (Maybe.)
Mark Coale said, on 3/16/2009 5:42:00 PM
I guess that would also make WITCH MOUNTAIN the new ET, going by the “kids movie that opened on the same day” parallel.
Synsidar said, on 3/17/2009 1:42:00 PM
For those who are interested in tracking WATCHMEN’s box office revenues. Be warned that the slant on the second weekend’s take is decidedly negative. Negativists aren’t the only pooh-poohers, though; the professional analysts are also negative, reportedly.
Nikki Finke has an entertaining piece on the difficulties of casting THOR. Natalie Portman fans should avoid reading it, though.
haha! yes! this is the Hollywood version of the comics!
rorschach tötet dr.manhattan « HIRNWICHSE said, on 3/8/2009 5:06:00 AM
[…] (via The Beat) […]
gerg said, on 3/9/2009 2:41:00 AM
well after seeing the movie…it wasn’t bad..it was entertaining…wouldn’t watch it again or b uy the dvd but it did the “job”. the original intent was there but not to see moore’s name there felt strange but i know why it was left off… it really did seemed compressed….and well i still feel it’d do better as a mini series…
damn… maybe it was a danny douche look a like….but the guy they got to do Rorschach was spot on and well the best part of the movie. even though he had the same bale over the top batman voice… and well yeah the casting was well done. overall… not wow drop everything best movie ever but it was a decent job.
Let’s hope scott pilgrim is awesome.
Thomax Green said, on 3/9/2009 3:38:00 AM
I have said before that I thought the graphic novel wasn’t the best, because it was too slow moving. The movie, didn’t have that problem. And I’m not going to spoil the end for those who haven’t seen it, but it is different, and you know what, it wasn’t bad at all.
Jason A. Quest said, on 3/9/2009 7:22:00 AM
Yeah, seeing Doc Manhattan wrestle the alien squid was teh awesome!
Last night was a huge night for partying at New York Comic-Con, as Marvel and DC held their traditional Friday night fetes. However, as revealed on Twitter, partygoers at one of the soirees made a troubling find: an abandoned bra in the ladies room. The owner of the bra appears to have been well endowed but other forensic evidence has not been released.
Many questions remained. Was this merely viral marketing for some “event”? Had Jim Balent accidentally been in the ladies room? Had Jim Balent purposely been in the ladies room? Most worryingly of all…where was Big Momma?
5 Comments on Mystery bra baffles industry partiers, last added: 2/13/2009
even more interesting to note: that you prefer one of the wallstalls whilst in there and what did other bathroom goers think upon hearing your camera go off in there (if yours did make the standard camera sound).
Xenos said, on 2/10/2009 12:19:00 PM
and my first question is… Was Power Girl seen anywhere in the vicinity?
GOMA DE MASCAR.net | new york comic con 2009 - re said, on 2/13/2009 10:12:00 AM
[…] - o caso do misterioso sutiã largado no banheiro; […]
GOMA DE MASCAR.net | new york comic con 2009 - re said, on 2/13/2009 10:12:00 AM
[…] - o caso do misterioso sutiã largado no banheiro; […]
GOMA DE MASCAR.net | new york comic con 2009 - re said, on 2/13/2009 10:13:00 AM
[…] - o caso do misterioso sutiã largado no banheiro; […]
So, I hear there is a big game today and I don’t mean Liverpool-Chelsea or the Tyne-Wear Derby. Contrary to popular opinion, there are comics nerds who like sports.
Then again, maybe you’re only watching for the commercials. There are a number of nerd-friendly ads tonight, including trailers for movies like ANGELS & DEMONS, ALIENS VS MONSTERS (Did you get your 3D glasses? Hopefully, you can use the ones that came with SUPERMAN BEYOND.), LAND OF THE LOST, RACE TO WITCH MOUNTAIN and Pixar’s UP. There’s also the GI JOE ad, which is supposed to debut tonight during the game, but it’s not listed on the list of all the ads in Friday’s USA TODAY. I guess we will see if it is shown or not.
There are now sites devoted to analyzing the ads, so you don’t have to wait until the Monday McPaper to read what people thought of the new Budweiser spots.
Posted by Mark Coale
11 Comments on There’s a WHAT today?, last added: 2/3/2009
It’s so hard to enjoy the old Batman covers, campy and bold as they are, with that big ol’ “Bob Kane” signature plastered over someone else’s work. Yes, I’m a bitter, bitter man.
Go team!
Captain Zap said, on 2/1/2009 2:23:00 PM
I created the character Captain Zap for my selfpublishing imprint “What Comics” on Super Bowl, which fits really nicely with your blog title “There’s a WHAT today?”. Thank you:)
Besides soccer is the only real football anyway… nah, I’m just a geek:)
Rob Jensen aka ShutUpRob said, on 2/1/2009 2:40:00 PM
The 3D Glasses for Monsters & Aliens are also for tomorrow night’s 3D episode of Chuck — and if you don’t watch Chuck, there’s something wrong with you, IMO.
The glasses are NOT red/blue ala Superman Beyond and other 3D comics — it’s more of an amber/slightly-purplish-blue. I’ve already tried the Chuck glasses on Superman Beyond and they worked fine, but I don’t know how they compare in effectiveness on SB versus the SB glasses. You didn’t think I was going to tear the glasses out of a $4 comic, did you?
Also, I don’t know if the Superman Beyond glasses will work on Chuck and Monsters & Aliens. Again, I’m not gonna tear glasses out of a $4 comic. Oh hell no.
From what I understand, the different colors for the Chuck/Monsters glasses are so that more color comes through so that, strictly speaking you don’t absolutely *have* to wear the glasses to watch the show. The Amber still has Red in it, the purplish-blue, duh, still has blue in it.
Finally, two things:
1) This is not a plug, just information on where to get the glasses — the Chuck/Monsters glasses are sponsored by SoBe LifeWater, so look for ‘em at your supermarket. They come in sheets of four, with the Monsters illo on the outside (shiny side) and the Chuck ad on the inside (non-shiny side).
2) NBC is apparently going to show three commercials in this 3D process during the Superbowl — one for Chuck, one for Monsters Vs. Aliens and one for — uh, I forget. Hopefully, they’ll all be shown in the same commercial break.
— Rob
SpyBoy said, on 2/1/2009 3:21:00 PM
That Batman kicks like a girl. Ow…no hitting!
Mark Coale said, on 2/1/2009 6:17:00 PM
Looks like there was also a STAR TREK COMMERCIAL.
Did McPaper just leave Paramount off the list
Torsten Adair said, on 2/1/2009 6:57:00 PM
Why watch a $3 million ad when I can watch them online later? Remember the good ol’ days when an ad was shown once and that was it?
Also, I remember Super Bowl XIII, the first night game, where Denver lost to Dallas. Chas Addams did a nice cover for TV Guide.
There’s also a Spire comics biography on Tom Landry…
Christopher Moonlight @ Moonlight Art Magazine said, on 2/1/2009 7:30:00 PM
I saw the Boss, and that’s all I need.
Rob Jensen aka ShutUpRob said, on 2/1/2009 11:11:00 PM
I have to agree with Seth Meyers on SNL: The Steelers and the Cards were definitely just the opening act for Springsteen. Never seen the E Streeters in concert and now I understand — that friggin’ huge stadium just wasn’t big enough to contain them.
Also, 3D update: The Monsters Vs. Aliens trailer which lasted for 30 seconds-to-a-minute looked totally awesome in 3D — the full color came through in this process, too. Even if MvA were using this 3D process for the actual movie rather than the polarized lenses that most theatrical DVD movies use, I’d go see it, and I have a funky prescription that makes 3D tricky for me.
The SoBe commercial was So-So Because it started out in all-white costumes and backgrounds, but picked up toward the end as more Monsters Vs. Aliens stuff came in.
The commercial for Chuck was a 3D failure, though, because clearly NBC used their own regular Tech Monkeys to put the trailer together. There were *waaay* too many cuts in the commercial for anything but the logo to look 3D. Which is a shame because there was one particularly lovely shot of Yvonne Strahotski (misspelling intentional) that should look great in 3D. Can’t blame the show for the failure of NBC’s Tech Monkeys, since no network’s tech monkeys know how to assemble a commercial for any of their shows. So if the 3D on Chuck is even half as good as the 3D in either the Monsters trailer or the live-action SoBe commercial, then it’ll be fine. Although I still do dread seeing any scene in the Buy More due to the over-use of the color green, which should make the 3D really, really wonky no matter what color-filter process is used. (Okay, I’m betting that they’d never have been able to use Red-Green 3D. But still . . .)
— Rob
Sphinx Magoo said, on 2/2/2009 6:41:00 AM
Totally agree with Christopher Moonlight.
I had a George Orwell “1984″ moment when The Boss looked at the camera and declared I should put my chicken wing down.
~chris said, on 2/2/2009 4:57:00 PM
My 17-year-old niece at halftime: “Who’s that?”
Answer: “Bruce Springsteen”
Niece: “Ah. … He’s kind of annoying.”
For the record, her music taste is not anti-old, as she thinks that the Beatles and Eddie Cochran are aces, and that American Idol isn’t.
P.S. Roger Staubach did NOT step out of bounds! Not that it would have changed the final outcome….
Cary Coatney said, on 2/3/2009 7:06:00 PM
The only time I’ll ever tune in to a Super Bowl is if they ever ask Emerson, Lake, & Palmer to do the half time show.
Fanfare for the Common Man or Mars, the Bringer of War is football appropiate, don’t you think?
Someone needs to get a group of friends together, dress up in this stuff, knock on Alan’s door and put the resulting firestorm on YouTube.
Rich Johnston, are you out there?
Torsten Adair said, on 1/31/2009 6:37:00 AM
Nothing for the kiddies? Guess I’ll dress up little Taylor as the Joker again…
Dave T. Game said, on 1/31/2009 9:34:00 AM
This really screws up my plans to dress up as The Question for Halloween.
boogersnots said, on 2/2/2009 1:38:00 AM
The guy on the left is FOT!!!! You know, fattish but’ HOT
Xenos said, on 2/2/2009 2:11:00 PM
Ha. I was half tempted to go as The Question to the premiere, but that might confuse people too much. Though I guess I could always do costumes for Rorschach -and- The Question.
Meanwhile, almost nice to see such complex and morally gray characters being turned into goofy Halloween costumes.
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According to handouts at this weekend’s Big Apple Con, next year’s show is being held October 7-10 — the exact same dates as the long announced 
My adoring fans (both of them) need to be able to find me, y’know!
Not to spoil it, but I suspect the third reason is that this story feeds into the Adele Blanc Sec continuity (it feels so weird to use that word in regards to Jacques Tardi books).
this is before Adele Blanc Sec, Robert.
Also a point of interest: Tardi drew this on scraper board in the mannerof the lost art of the old 19th century engravers.
In fact he bought the engraving tools from an old engraver to make this comic which took him well over a year to draw.
I’m looking forward to this! I just read Tardi’s WW I graphic novel, It Was The War of the Trenches (which was released here in the U.S. last April by Fantagraphics) the other day and it was amazing – one of last year’s very best!
I have the French ed. of this book and as I recall, Robert is correct: it feeds into the Adele stories. It’s gorgeous stuff.
Oh, you spoilin’ bastards, you! Yes, Robert and Ben are correct, all the characters from THE ARCTIC MARAUDER suddenly pop up in the fourth ADELE book (therefore the second half our our second ADELE book),complete with an in-page plug for the book itself — a joke that would not have worked nearly as well if THE ARCTIC MARAUDER hadn’t been released beforehand. An amusing and delightful surprise for those Tardi fans who avoid this spoilerrific thread, ahem.
For similar reasons, we’ll have to do ADIEU BRINDAVOINE before we move on to the first post-WWI Adele stories (i.e. our third book), since HIS continuity then feed into ADELE.
Thanks for posting this, Heidi. I got turned on to Tardi (say that three times fast) vie The Beat, and just bought You Are There last weekend at the very excellent Fantagraphics Bookstore here in Seattle. Can’t wait to pick this one up.
@Kim Thompson – I woulda kept my trap shut, but the cat was already out of the bag!