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“Hibbs, who owns two shops on San Francisco, reports that his November sales were down for the first time in seven years. ”

QUARTERS, not years!!

-B

Yeah, Brian, your comment on Marvel succeeding in attracting new readers and the, wanting them to, right away, understand those weird renumbering/relaunch habits…
That said, if marvel do like they previously did with Hawkeye, the paperback readers won’t see the change, as the paperback will continue with their usual numbering. And a lot of those new readers are probably paberback readers, right?

“And a lot of those new readers are probably paberback readers, right?”

Some are, others absolutely are not — I see new 20 something readers in my store ALL OF THE TIME, and, yes, MOST OF THEM are getting *hooked* on the periodical comic. They like trades very very much, but the things that turns them into FANS is the motivation to buy a new dream fifty-two weeks a year.

-B

“Not launching a Supergirl comic when the TV show debuted seems to be the kind of thing a leveraged company would do in a heartbeat; that this little detail escaped the vertical-obsessed bean counters is troubling.)”

The bean counters probably looked at the The Flash Season Zero and Arrow Season 2.5 comic books, and figured the costs associated with regularly publishing something similar for Supergirl was not worth the investment. The Flash and Arrow companion comic books never really sold all that well.

The constant reboots with #1’s, the huge DC/Marvel universe altering mega-events, and the constant reinventing of traditional characters in the interest of diversity is what is killing the industry. I walked away from Marvel super hero books shortly before the most recent Secret Wars mini-series. The only one I still read is Spider-Woman because it is fun and interesting. It doesn’t take itself too seriously and is not deeply intertwined with 500 other Marvel titles. If it gets to that point I will drop it immediately. The only other Marvel books I read are Darth Vader and Star Wars. The rest of my regular titles are DC and Independents (Dark Horse, IDW, Boom!, and Dynamite.) DC is my favorite publisher and I really like what they are doing, although after Convergence things have become a little muddy. Just bring the real Batman and Superman characters back and all will be forgiven.

All the publishers need to just let series get into the triple digit issue numbers instead of rebooting every 15 issues for no reason other than to introduce a new creative team. There is nothing wrong with ending a story arc, then coming back the next issue with a new team. And for crying out loud, stop pandering to the diversity crowd. Just let the established characters stay as they were originally. Introduce NEW diverse characters, but leave your bread and butter characters alone!!

The also need to stop with the variant covers. No one, other than market speculators hording them, will miss them.

Finally, how about printing them on traditional newsprint paper like the good old days. Get the price of the books down to $1.99-$2.50 and watch sales soar. Save the premium paper and cover stock for the “prestige format”, limited edition special event books (a la Dark Knight, Killing Joke, etc.)

Not to be overly pedantic (too late, I know), but shouldn’t that be “semi-monthly” (twice a month), not “bi-monthly” (every other month).

Actually Scott, thanks – I spent the whole article confused, and I read it twice. You’re not being pedantic at all. Bi-monthly means every other month, which means DC would be shipping fewer titles. Which made no sense to me!

Oh, that’s good to know.

Actually, “It’s been going on for a long time at Marvel and it’s worked, ” I don’t think it works well. Of course, that makes more copies sold in total in one month but, as variant covers, it has a very nasty effect, because it secludes even more readers into their habit.
I almost stopped buying Marvel floppy because following one supposedly monthly Marvel means giving up on almost two others one at Image for example. I you have to spend $8-10$ on one Marvel title, that means, you could have spend this money on 3 image titles (3×2.99$). So this kind of behavior is hurting others publishers titles, as, most of the time, buyers will give up on their Marvel title last.
Or they simply stop buying them because the marvel double shipping on their title is pretty random (you never know when a title is gonna double ship in advance, it’s not a repeated pattern).
So, bad ideas do travel well. :(

“Or they simply stop buying them because the marvel double shipping on their title is pretty random (you never know when a title is gonna double ship in advance, it’s not a repeated pattern).”

Regardless of one’s thoughts on double shipping, the above is actually not true.
The indicia of Marvel titles says which months the book double ships.
Ex: Darth Vader’s indicia reads “published monthly except in February, October, and November”

Problem #1: Their best-selling titles like BATMAN and JUSTICE LEAGUE are exactly the titles that can’t keep to the regular MONTHLY schedule.

Problem #2: The reason people LIKE those particular books is at least partially because of stable, long-term creative teams — IF you try to get 18-24 issues of BATMAN a year, then it clearly can’t be Snyder/Capullo (though the latter was leaving after #50 I thought, anyway)

Problem #3: Doing this with the TOP selling books means less bandwidth down-channel for the poorer selling books, which is where DC’s true problems lay right now.

Problem #4: accelerated shipping, at least if you do it in the way that Marvel does (and we have no evidence whatsoever of HOW DC is doing this, yet), mostly just shifts the financial risk on to the retailer, because of the way in which comics are ordered — there are some ANAD Marvel books which we’re floating three issues with zero sales data. That’s bad bad bad juju. The retailer is the party LEAST able to absorb any losses.

-B

Bimonthly can mean either twice a month or every other month. Every other month is more common, but both are used relatively frequently – http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bimonthly

RJT: Yes, I know it’s written in the indicia but:
– do you think people are gonna look each time at the indicia to know when the double will double ship?
– the information in the indicia is not only different from one year to the other, but changes during the same year. I looked at one marvel title indicia in the same year, and it had very different information: in one it say it double ship only in decembre, then 3 months later that it double ship in february, april, juene and august, and then same thing + november. so youc an’t realy on the information in the indicica, as it keeps changing.

Brian, Batman is losing Capullo as artist, so I would assume they won’t have a problem keeping schedule; once Snyder is off it there won’t be someone with as strong a pull to fight it, either.

Same goes for Justice League with Johns.

I would be down with double shipping for two or three months out of the year in place of the annual, especially if the regular writer is handling the story. I was okay with Marvel during the periods in which they double shipped titles in place of the annual.

Brian Hibbs is totally right. If you accelerate the schedule too much, DC is going to cannibalize themselves. Mid-tier titles such as Grayson and Batgirl would be affected. I will definitely reevaluate my DC [& Marvel] titles depending on how DC handles double-shipping. I will not pay $3.99/whatever for subpar creative teams just because DC [or Marvel] want to grind out x number of issues. I would prefer to give that money to a quality title with a consistent creative team.

Means I will be moving away from DC like I did with Marvel and just read Image. This over pumping of material into the market is killing it.

Welcome to the cynical circle, Todd! :)
Only two comments:
– comparing Dr strange and Thor numbers doesn’t seem fair at all, especially for the Doctor. The last ongoing serie for the doctor was so much time ago that there is no real point of comparaisons, except that Dr strange was never a huge seller, but did manage to keep its ongoing title during more than 20 years.
– the creator mix is quite different. Many names are new and some associatiosn are quite new, let’s be fair. We can’t say that Marvel hasn’t put a lot of innovative titles with this relaunch. Of course, if you only lokk at the big titles, nothing has changed much, but the rest of their catalog is quite daring and innovative (and expensive too :p ).

Looking at the diamond numbers for the past couple of years gives such a flawed idea as to how its doing. Its not like the way it was in the past where the direct market is the main sales number and even then the Diamond numbers were still flawed. It doesn’t take into account the rather sizable digital numbers, where books like Spider-Gwen have such a huge audience that’s not reflected in these numbers. All the numbers to is allow people to manipulate them and show a small example in order to push their agenda.

“It doesn’t take into account the rather sizable digital numbers, where books like Spider-Gwen have such a huge audience that’s not reflected in these numbers”

And where can we see this digital numbers? I can totally believe Spider-Gwen selling big online but I’d like to check out the sales figures myself.

Mike

Bob, who’s your source on Spider-Gwen’s digital sales? The only digital comic at Marvel I’ve gotten confirmation *from Marvel* on a consistently percentage of digital sales is Ms. Marvel. From what I could tell, and I couldn’t get a straight enough answer to suit me, Ms. Marvel seemed to be selling close to (but not quite) print numbers in digital. Which was an anomaly. If Spider-Gwen is doing the same, then that’s two books out of the entire line.

Depending on who you talk to, digital is still 10%-15% of total sales and since there’s no more newsstand for Marvel, that leaves 85%-90% of the sales to Diamond. It reflects the reality of the Direct Market, where many retailers rely on Marvel to get them into the profit column each month.

But really, accusing somebody who wrote a book on how the digital market works of ignoring digital to push a print agenda? Grow up. There’s better trolling to be done than that.

To be fair on Dr Strange, Marvel tied the incentive for variants on Dr Strange to Thor, so Marvel expected some sort of comparison. Sadly it was exceed 175% of Thor to get the variants, so they expected it to far outsell Thor

From an artist perspective that Iron Man Cover looks okay, but the computer lettering with all those style filters (embossing) added looks hideous. I don’t collect super hero books these days, but I would think all the movies and cartoons out there are creating a somewhat over saturation of the market. Perhaps people are looking elsewhere for something new. Rebranding of things don’t make for new.

Marvel need to do something to create buzz beyond the first issue. How they do this I don’t have the answer, but I would say this would need to be a long term thing and not reliant of the variant covers. Possibly they could do a big push on the tpb collections with an attempt get people to jump onto the floppies after.

Great analyses Todd! Good to see you here.

Once the delays and extra issue were announced I dropped Secret Wars. It was the first Marvel event I’ve indulged in since 2010 and I don’t see any reason to do these anymore.

I’m trying all of the #1s but reboot fatigue, lack of star talent and cost are looking like ANAD is a jumping off point for me. It’s looking like I’ll settle around the 6-7 title mark where pre-Secret Wars I was at the 15-16 title level.

Same thing happened with DC’s reboot too though. These reboots tend to shake the tree enough that I guess I’m one of the old base that falls off and haven’t really come back in any substantive way. I guess it’s up to some new fan to take my place at the superhero shops at this point.

I suppose Marvel should just switch over to an “every issue is a #1” relaunch! Maybe an Amazing Spider-Man #1, Amazing Spider-Man #1 (and in tiny print 1.1) and A,mazing Spider-Man #1 (1.2), and so on. ;) I jest, I jest, but I swear, this is how it’s going. At some point the companies (not the fans) decided the only thing that sells are #1’s and variant covers. It’s the usual short-term money making thinking, unfortunately. And the fanboys blindly fall into the trap, and become addicted to the idea, as well.

But also, wow, the new creative teams on these relaunches are just a big no for me. Even my best friend, and we’ve both read comics since we were in grade school, told me every single Avengers relaunch is horrible. We both bought them all before the relaunch, after, every single one dropped. And The Vision, Starbrand and NightMask, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, etc. – it’s just a personal preference, but the whole “indie” art thing at Marvel has killed my desire to buy these books, books that, if they had a more “traditional Marvel art style” I’d probably snatch up! I think overall the relaunch is just a mess in terms of characters and creative teams.

I personally like more “realistic” artwork, which is why most of my money goes to Independents now. Butch Guice, Alex Maleev (one hold=over at Marvel), Mike Perkins (the other), Michael Lark, Bill Sienkiewicz, Steve Epting, Gabriel Hardman, etc. All, at one point, Marvel artists…

“On a more hopeful note, Bergen Street did not close down due to low sales, but rather co-owner Tom Adams desire to move to Europe to be with his wife, co-owner Amy Adams.”

Well, if a comic book store owner can marry Amy Adams, then there is hope for all of us! ;-)

I fear January might bring a lot of not-so-hot news for “not forward looking” stores, if half of the undercurrents I hear suck people down. It’s probably harder to be a “Big Two” focused store today than almost any other time in the history of the DM.

-B

Oh no!
Far and away the best shop in the area.

Bergen St and Locus Moon are two stores that inspired me to take the path I’m currently on. This is sad news, but man, those future endeavours sure are bright.

Brian, Locust Moon is as far from a “big two” shop as I’ve ever seen.

Locust Moon rules forever! Tell me more about this Brooklyn store rumor.

Jacob: I know that. What I’m saying is that more mainstream stores are also likely to have a poor first quarter.

-B

You’d want to do a lot of looking at the financials, but if it is as represented, that’;s substantially cheaper than a new start-up would be, and you’d have at least some initial clientele to get you over the initial hump.

-B

Yes, from this it’s a cheap entryway. If it’s nuts and bolts hold up to scrutiny, however.

This breaks my heart. 10 years invested in their passion. I wish this retailer the best for their situation — both financially and for their family illness. Family always comes first.

I’d check with Diamond to see if the new owner qualifies for their “new store” grant.

From the Small Business Administration:
https://www.sba.gov/content/buying-existing-business
The SBA also offers the 7(a) loan program.

The State of Illinois:
http://www.illinois.gov/dceo/SmallBizAssistance/BeginHere/Pages/SBDC.aspx

Zone Comics is located on a main street.
There is a parochial school nearby, as well as a library.
Google maps is unclear about access to the train station. How easy is it to cross the railroad tracks?

The market is robust. The nearest competitor is 15 minutes away by car.

ooooo, near a library. Be still my heart. That’s a huge potential audience of library goers, including the folks who just go there to poop and the people who go there to look at porn.

I bought Treasury of Mini Comics volume 1 on walmart.com. Volume 2 is on there now.

One of the best comics from this post-Fort Thunder world of comics.
Hopefully this will mean more people will be exposed to it and have their minds blown.

ISLAND rocks. I sell more copies of ISLAND than virtually any Marvel or DC comic…. but, man, nationally it’s not at all what we’d call a hit.

-B

We’re early adopters, Brian. People are followers. Retailers, more so.

I hope they do well enough/worked out their business model to last long enough to let everyone else catch up, then — I’d LOVE to still be selling copies of ISLAND monthly in 2025 or later….

-B

I’ve never understood the desire for comics to be a boys club. When I was young, I would have loved to have a Heidi MacDonald or Kate Fitzsimons to chat with about comics. Alas, I didn’t know any girls who were into my hobby — and not many guys, either. I’m talking about the pre-Internet era.

I’ve heard that the resurgence of Image has brought more women into comics as readers. Image comics don’t take place in a shared universe, so you can pick up any title and start reading. You don’t have to read the entire line, or be aware of 50 years of continuity, to understand what’s going on.

Basically, it’s an “adult” version of the Twinkies ads in comic books. Snack food saves the day.

As far as sales of the big two go, I think that there are a number of promotions (variant covers, volume discounts even greater than normal) that they are using to help the direct market retailers. What they aren’t doing is publishing (main line super hero) stories that are building any kind of demand from consumers. I consider Convergence to be a huge mistake and a grand sale’s flop on DC’s part, and to a lesser degree but along the same lines with Secret Wars from Marvel.
Couple this with DC’s continuing policy of breaking promises on product continuity and Marvels continued strategy of turning their comics into sales catalogs (i.e. Amazing Spider-man #1, Avengers #0, Point One #1, etc., etc.) it is no wonder retailers are struggling to turn numbers.
On a positive note, I hope the current trends towards women and minorities (both in and creating) the new titles continue to gain readers. Personally I think that some of those titles are the most fun and enjoyable to read! (i.e. Batgirl, Spider-Gwen, Gotham Academy, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, and all of Amanda Conner’s stuff)

Heidi: Good points all. Something that would REALLY BE HELPFUL to folks like me looking for new stuff to try, and buying for grandkid comic book geeks: Instread of The Beat and other running Previews galleys from the upcoming catalog, why doesn’t Diamond make the catalog available ONLINE and FREE (or very CHEAP) to consumers who want to download it to their tablets RIGHT NOW? Have the paper copy available at stores, but make the catalog searchable and easy to find stuff… Makes great sense to me.

“Que to the Onion on my belt.” Oh, Heidi, you slay me. However, when you talk about things that were tried “30 years ago and didn’t work” I reflexively think of the comics union that was ALMOST started by Neal Adams and friends. I’m actually starting to think that may be the rising tide that lifts all boats. Talk about change! Oh, I’m sorry, I tangenated. “Which was the style at the time.”

When did I become the Older Partner in every Buddy Cop movie? I got to pull a full-on Glover and opine “I’m getting to old for this shit” because basically all of the linked commentary (not Heidi’s piece, but all of the links) had almost no relationship to the actual purchasing reality of the marketplace (including the book market, and, presumably digital, but since no publisher will give any real information, it’s pretty hard to definitively say so)

Like, and here’s just one example: Kate Leth seems to be trying to say that TPs sell better than serializations in her last three bullet points? I mean, while they potentially *can*, that’s really really rare, and I can’ t think of a single example where a comic that *failed as a serialization* went on to succeed collected? (There must be a few, but Exception That Proves The Rule and all that) In, at least, 90% of the cases where a serialization fails commercially (or succeeds, for that matter) the reason for that is the *underlying execution of the work*, not “ooh, that Darn Direct Market!” The DM is actually radically efficient, in my view — if you don’t learn very well how to read the market, you rapidly go out of business as a DM retailer.

Comics are (and I say this as a person with two different comics shops) are literally never more popular than they are today, and sales are diversifying very nicely right now, but diversification *literally implies* the fragmentation of monolithic markets which yields much smaller sales for many many participants. *That’s normal*

For what it is worth, the math of the current “decline” comes down to Marvel fucking up the actual production of SECRET WARS (which is completely shattering the forward potential of ‘All-New, All-Different” of topping “New 52″… which it SHOULD have done , in a walk), and DC comics proving that taking a two month break from the regular production of your actual properly in-continuity comics made the readership re-evaluate buying ANY DCU comics…. BUT, like EVERY “disruption” of a like kind, the market will swiftly self-correct, and the retailers (DM *and* bookstore) will figure out how to more properly serve the customers who shop in their stores.

-B

The direct market IS doomed — not because it’s a bad idea or cannot work, but because the U.S. Justice Department decided antitrust laws didn’t apply to funnybooks because, while Diamond enjoys a monopoly on comics, it doesn’t control the distribution (and therefore the PRICE) of ALL books. Which is ridiculous: clearly comics constitute a separate market: they have their own separate marketplace! Single issue comics exist outside of the free market, and with no competition Diamond is in a position to allow its greed to slowly throttle their own golden goose, dictating what percentage they will take of every comic released and forcing all publishers to scrape what they can from whatever pennies they can charge over and above what Diamond dictates is their minimum cut. In any other area of business the Justice Department would have required that at least one other distributor exist in the comics marketplace so that competitive market forces would come into effect and the true market value of comics would be manifest to consumers. Diamond would be forced to reduce their cut because their competitor’s first move (barring collusion) would be to reduce their own, retailers could afford to lower cover prices, and consumers would but more, less expensive comics, insuring the continued existence of print comics and brick and mortar comic shops. Instead, a business whose demographic is ideally (though perhaps no longer in practice) younger people (how could they afford comics at these prices?) now trains its customers to either accept unjust business practice or forget about collecting Justice League. With all the challenges the industry faces, undoubtedly the biggest is the fact that comics — here in Canada, at least — just exceeded $5.00 per issue in most instances, factoring in exchange and tax. I’d be very surprised if a 20% drop since last year isn’t largely the result of many collectors being psychologically unwilling to cross that $5.00 frontier. Two comics for $10 is insane. Look for a 50% to 75% drop in sales when it happens in America…

Exhibit A!!!!

Jonathan, Diamond has *zero* control of, like, 80% of the comics they sell — Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image and IDW all *unilaterally* control prices and discounts for their products. Diamond has *zero* say in any of that.

I mean that literally — Diamond has no ability in ANY way shape or form to impact pricing from their top five suppliers because retailers aren’t buying *from* Diamond; they’re buying *from* those publishers! Diamond is just a mechanism!

There could be fifty different comics distributors, and *not a single one of those publishers* would sell through multiple distributors — they have far too many pricing and control advantages to even consider otherwise!

Marvel could change their cover prices to 25 cents and a 90% retailer discount, OR $50 cover prices and 5% discount tomorrow if they liked, and Diamond could not say anything or do ANYthing to change those decisions.

-B

And, I strongly suspect that if the JD somehow *forced* Marvel to use multiple distributors, losing their (among the) Most Favored Nation status (and the *drastically* lower margin that distribution takes as a result of that deal) that that would only ACCELERATE the move to $5 comics, not slow it.

-B

Great piece Heidi! There are a lot of outliers that are having an impact on the overall market. While the ‘big two’ are often referenced as the business drivers of the industry, new readers(kids and women) are finding books in mainstream retail, libraries, and even in schools. If you follow the money like Scholastic, First Second, Hachette, and Random House, then you publish books.

Mister Hibbs is definitely on target in pointing out that Diamond does not control the pricing of comics. They are a distribution company that has the responsibility of moving comics from publisher to retail. Their percentage of this business is insanely slim.

Jonathan Allen makes a very interesting observation ” I’d be very surprised if a 20% drop since last year isn’t largely the result of many collectors being psychologically unwilling to cross that $5.00 frontier. Two comics for $10 is insane. Look for a 50% to 75% drop in sales when it happens in America…” There in lies the real challenge for comics publishers. Are you publishing stories that people want to read? Or, are you publishing a collectible item? The second choice is not a wise one.

I was also struck by a telling comment from Todd McFarlane during the Will Eisner: Champion of the Graphic Novel panel at NYCC 15. He suggested that now DC and Marvel are owned by major corporations that have television rights wrapped up, indie comics publishers have a really good shot at getting their stories made into projects for TV or film. I get that he was demonstrating the new realm of opportunities but it is also something that corrupts the comics publishing mentality. If you publish with the idea that this comic is a collectible or a multi-media opportunity, you are thinking too far ahead.

Write and publish a great story, FIRST. Then,make it affordable. Get it to the widest possible audiences via what ever platforms you can use. If it stands the test of time, then it has the right to be considered a collectible.

The direct market is doomed because the overall economy is going back into recession. These numbers are proof that the next direct market crash has already begun. They’re every bit as bad as the darkest days of the pre-Jemas/Quesada Marvel market, even allowing for the SW outliers. Books in the 60s making the top 10? Marvel #1s not breaking 20K? The Top 300 bottoming out in the 5k range? Same old song and dance as before. Except everyone is older and more tired now and there is no Millennial calvary coming to save the day, no matter how many “diverse” books the same old bunch of middle aged white guys throw out there. I know a lot of retailers that have no stomach for another crash and are already making retirement plans. I’m sure Mr. Hibbs does as well.

Wayne Beamer: I completely agree about previews. They should make the catalog easier to get! I have to spend $4 a month just so I can buy more product from you?!? It’s insane. Thankfully my shop gives it to me at what they claim is cost for them ($1.70 or $2.70 or something in that ballpark. I can’t remember). I buy mostly indie comics and feel like I have to buy previews to make sure I don’t miss something that would appeal to me.

You can get questions through early in the
day videos and then answer them in a subsequent video clip.

I LIKED it. No periods, minimal cramps, minimal weight gain, no extra pimples, no mood swings.

The podcast appears to be an hour and a half long. Any chance we could read the highlights somewhere?

That is what treadmills are for. Get fit with podcasts!

If you’re going to talk about the current comics market, I think you might want to actually talk to someone who currently sells comics in some capacity instead of making wild speculative guesses about what the individual businesses’ model and reasoning and viability might possibly be?

You guys got it maybe 25% right, but the other three quarters was really kind of massively misinformed in so so so many ways about how the math works for who and how and when :(

From the little I know, you have it entirely wrong about Bergen St.’s profitability and motivation, in an entirely insulting way.

-B

“how do you get people to buy #4?”

Have #1-3 be transcendent wonderful of-the-moment comics.

But, really, for non-name non-exciting product the game is actually to get to the third TP collection (5-800 pages of material) — once you hit 6 inches of spine-out rack space then, maybe, you get enough shelf presence to move work to the next level.

-B

It’s rare to have a transcendent #1-3… but it happens more often than a #4 increase in sales, I’m sure you’ll agree. Which is why the question needs asking, I think.

As for the other stuff… yeah, you’re probably right. But it’s a casual conversation, not an essay. I thought we (or I) embraced it for the rant it was. I’m not looking to be dispositive. You should have stuck your fingers in your ears like I said! For what it’s worth: I owned a store for a long time–and throughtout and for almost 10 years after I left, it was very successful. One of Diamond’s Top 100 accounts by dollars. And that was all comics, as we were direct with most card, games, T-shirts, and statue companies. In the 10 years I’ve worked in publishing, I’m sure a lot has changed. But it doesn’t LOOK like a lot has changed. That being said: I know as much as anyone that you can’t get a real picture from the outside looking in. So YMMV.

There is always always always always always a drop in consumer sales in a series from #1 to #whatever — whether that is comical books or Netflix views — so for a comics series to GROW in sales with issue #4, the *only* way that can happen is that the first three issues were *under*-ordered. Which is exactly why it happens in the rare occasions that it does.

-B

We all know #1 will sell the most copies. But what about when a major publisher forwards a creator an chart that says a 69-74% drop by #4 is considered normal–the “standard” in standard attrition… with more drops each following number? I think there’s a whole lot of room to improve between the impossible 101% and the accepted-as-normal 26%.

You can blame the content–but I think that’s likely unfair in a world where comics content is ubiquitous and in-demand across all media.

And while a significant minority, it is not a rare thing that books–especially early numbers–are under ordered:

1) Anecdotally, I’ve seen many books where #2 and/or #3 are cut too much. Reorders go quick and then those numbers are gone. Not just from Diamond, but off the shelf. And I think a lot of retailers are hesitant to up #4’s significantly above their total sales on #3–that’s a tough mentality to crack because they don’t know if the customers who lost out on #3 will instead opt to wait-for-the-trade.

1a) If Saga-like comics get their numbers bumped at 6, 11, 16, 21 (ie: singles after a trade)–that’s evidence singles were under ordered.

2) With all due respect to all retailers, I think it’s safe to say that some retailers cut orders on #2-4 more based on habit that close scrutiney of actual sales.

3) I’ve done it. I’ve hand-fed multiple, major stores sold out issues from my personal stock. Telling them I’ll take them back if unsold. When I did that with 1s, 2s, & 3s, orders for 4s, 5s, 6s increased. And it’s continued growth as I restock #4s, 5s &c when Diamond is out of those. I see the inititial orders, I see FOC, and I get the calls for restock. It’s hundreds of copies per issue–a little more than 5% of total Rocket Girl sales are by me, after Diamond sells out.

4) #1’s sell the most… with 100% of the marketing budget. It makes sense, but maybe a small but significant part of that is self-fulfilling-prophecy. When did anyone ever push a #4? And you don’t even have to make #4 a discrete marketing project–how about pushing “the series” three months after a launch–never happens, not even if the book is “transcendent.”

Now, maybe paragraphs 1-4 above don’t add up to a revolution. But maybe they do make a favorable dent of a few points in that “standard attrition” (which a cynic would say is code for “not my fault”) of the 75% drop some say you shouldn’t try to stop by #5. I call bullshit and we can do better. And, again, those are just small ideas that came to my head in an unscripted, unplanned podcast chat. Where’s our #4 Manhattan Project (the thinktank, not the Image book)?

Check this article about Netflix: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/09/24/netflix_knows_what_episodes_of_our_favorite_tv_shows_got_us_hooked.html

“Netflix analyzed data for 25 shows, and found the episode within each series after which 70 percent of people continued watching for the rest of its first season.”

So a 1/3 *OR GREATER* drop is *absolutely normal* in serialized fiction in general

If you read that article, ARROW’s transitional episode came at #8, so, at best, .7 of .7 of .7 of .7 of .7 of .7 of .7, which, if I did the math right (I Might not have done so!!!) says that like only 6% of the audience for episode #1 made it to #8?

People like to sample a whole lot of stuff, but those who FOLLOW it, is a substantially lower number. Trying to deny that is, basically, nuts, and I suspect that, overall, comics keep a higher percentage, over all, at #4 of a serialization from another media because we have an actual culture around buying comics on a particular day!

[My personal rule of thumb in ordering is 80% of #1 for #2, and 80% of that for #3, for whatever that is worth — 10, 8, 6 — but here’s the FUNDAMENTAL place that your 10-years-out-of-date ordering experience lets you down — WE HAVE FOC TODAY, and we can make radical changes in orders 3 weeks out from publication]

Now, is it true that some retailers miss maximizing sales on some titles because of the non-returnable nature of comics, and the conserrvatism that engenders?? Oh yes, of course — but I firmly believe that the overwhelming majority of full-service retailers are looking to maximize the number of copies they sell of every comic that they carry. Why? Because if they don’t do so THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS.

The actual math of the DM says that if you don’t order mostly right, most of the time, you go out of business.

The market isn’t supposed to look like you or I or a neutral third party might *want* it to be — it’s supposed to look like it *is*, and the cold fact is that the overwhelming majority of titles are bought at the “right” level, in that there are still plenty of copies on the market to purchase, and that demand for later issues isn’t scaling up for the market as a whole — for every anecdote you can show about providing 5% in restock, I suspect I can find you five stores that have 20% leftover in overstock.

But if you truly and sincerely believe that #2 and #3 are *Systematically* under-ordered, then the solution seems simple (short term) — double or triple ship those #2s and #3s, believing that the market will correct orders at #4 and #5.

In fact, maximizing early orders seems to be the trick to get the market to perform better than its native conservatism would seem to suggest, but when you see a recurring pattern over and over and over again, perhaps, just maybe, orders reflect a pattern that reflects our ordering experience? We DO lost half the audience between #1 and #2…. except when we don’t. But if I had to place a bet on any random title, I’d absolutely place it as a big loss between issues because that’s how most books are for most issues.

There are, OF COURSE, exceptions to that pattern, but they’re generally fairly rare because inefficient markets almost always collapse, and the DM is so very far from collapse at the moment…..

-B

I don’t want to take the bait about having not worked in retail for 10 years and turn this into a quarrel, but: I’ve scriutinized exact Initial vs FOC numbers for every store in the world on a significant number of books over the years from Image, DC, Vertigo; here and there with Marvel books; pay attention when these subjects come up with publishers; and have had scores of conversations with retailers on FOC day about FOC.

And we’re not even saying very different things. What I’m saying is that there is value in addressing your specific above concessions with publisher tools: publicity, information, returnability, other incentive/sales support, etc (and it doesn’t even have to be limited to publisher interaction). I think addressing ‘standard attrition’ post-#1 is something that makes a difference. I’ve still never said it’s going to raise number 4 above #1–but I think there is room for improvement.

And some specific responses: I think, unfortunately, the human component of 10-8-6 (I stress: only for some retailers) sometimes supersedes FOC analysis based actual sales. I think conservatism that hurts the busiess can be ameliorated by the tools in the previous paragraph. I recognize (and this was the point most discussed in the podcast) that OVERordering is probably a contributing factor for most stores that go out-of-business. But that doesn’t mean UNDERordering isn’t also an issue that effects the chain of creator-publisher-distributor-retailer-fan. And for the record: despite the podcast’s provocative title (which I didn’t choose!) the audio goes at great length to say the DM is not only viable, but recognized by publishers as the supreme channel.

The Netflix stuff is very interesting… but still very far from the DM. The huge difference being everything being on-demand at once. There are people today sampling the first episode of Walking Dead or Breaking Bad today because their friends have been talking about it for years. And it’s free (assuming you have the service anyway). So of course the drop off should be higher with free, home-delivered video-on-demand than you find in an informed hobby audience that is investing money-per-book.

In the DM, if you’ve heard good things about a book (and I’m again talking core customers–not civilians) and all there is is #4 on the shelf–there’s very rarely going to be a sampling. At that point, we’re in wait-for-the-trade mode–which does have con’s as well as the pro’s.

And regarding the common wisdom of maximizing a #1 launch, because the higher you start, the longer you can shed readers until you have to cancel (and relaunch)… I think it’s both very true and very dangerous. You can’t deny it, but to live by it without expanding your worldview… it’s the death of 1000 cuts. Forget #1s and #4s… when you have the .1 to 1 to 2 to 3% standard attrition on books that have been around for years, you have a fundemental business problem. That’s how you go from 108,000 copies of 2005 non-#1 Green Lantern to 42,000 copies of 2015 non-#1 Green Lantern. At the end of the day: I’m saying there’s an opportunity in those 64,000 lost copies–but some publishers and retailers instead throw their hands up and say “That’s Life!” I don’t know if I have any of the answers–but I’m not so cynical to believe it’s not worth talking about.

Regarding the Rocket Girl anecdote for #2 & #3. I can be conservative and say I put 500 copies of each into a handful stores (this is AFTER overprints sold out from Diamond). I don’t think the math of your counterargument holds up, because it’s +5% of the entire DM–not +5% of those individula stores. I’d have to dig up the numbers, but stores (and to be fair, it was only is stores were RG sales were already strong) where I supplied extras had increases of ~50-300% over orders shipped + reorders. The restocked copies were not dumped all at once, but over multiple shipments as needed.

And I don’t think you will find a lot of stores with extra copies because RG 2 & 3 were returnable–and returns were so close to zero I don’t even remember them. (And if any retailer has extra 2s & 3s–I need them!). But overships and returnability are only part of the equation–so much more could be done.

Now, does my biased POV on Rocket Girl dispositively evidence a systemic problem? Of course not. But, again, I do think we as a business are missing opportunities to better sustain ongoing series sales (while undervaluing the importance of sustaining ongoing series).

Nobody understands better than me that a market is what it is. But we’re all actors! It is what we’ve made it. The market doesn’t exist outside of us!? We don’t respond to a market… we create it. We’re the manufacturers and distributors and consumers. Our actions have consequences that define the market.

Regarding variants, I liked Boom’s system: publishing variants covers in equal numbers. (I believe they were shipped 1:1 under the same order code.)
I would usually pick the most appealing cover. Some fans might buy both.

Do publishers ship out “thank you” variants, like Marvel did with the platinum edition of Spider-Man #1?

As for the retailer GN variants, I don’t know if that’s feasible for reprinting. Make the first printing (which is collectible by book collectors in general) a variant cover, then all subsequent reprintings would be of the trade cover. This reduces costs, especially for a title which might have a smaller second printing than the first. Of course, you could do what DC did with The Killing Joke… change the cover’s fifth color with each reprinting. http://www.comics.org/issue/43808/ (14 printings!)

I think today’s announcement from DC of polybagged secret variant covers should have everyone very very scared for the future.

-B

As the direct market eats its dead, the only tactic I’ve been able to find as a consumer is extreme indifference. It’s too bad though. Even in my cold, dead heart I still miss some of those characters but there’s no way I’m going to wade back into this madness. This stuff is a super turn-off. Life’s too short to be mad about it.

I have mastered my appetites such that I don’t HAVE to have anything from crackhead comic publishers running head long toward a fiery death. None of this ess is on me but it’s turned me into a voyeur when it comes to comics. It’s ironic, it seems like the only way to care is to abstain.

>> “What’s more, it creates the appearance where Marvel, and the retailer, are attempting to unjustly profit from an appropriated culture.”

It’s amazing how much typing one can get done despite having one’s head wedged proudly up one’s own backside. Ignore a group? You are unjustly excluding them from participating. Feature a group? You are appropriating their culture for profit.

It’s almost as if the thought process were about moral preening rather than logic or principle.

Great column! I agree with so many things you said, but DC and Marvel do’t seem to give a s.it. Dc is not the only one lacking information on their products. My august marvel sales analysis will talk a little about how Marvel did not give a definite number of issues to people buying from the Previews.

To JRH: I appreciate your opinion on the matter. The point I was attempting to get across – and one that is actually made in the context of the article you pulled that from – is there is a difference between celebrating a culture, and holding that culture ransom using qualifiers that effectively limit the supply and manufacture demand – while ALSO ensuring there are unsold copies of the regular editions chocking out shelves and clogging up cash flow.

Just stop ordering variants.
Tell your customers you can’t offer variants anymore unless they are a standard variant that doesn’t require you to order additional copies (essentially a 50/50 mix).
Your good core customers will certainly understand.
The speculators (if you have any) will just have to go elsewhere (they were not exactly good sustaining customers anyway — I gurantee those guys will chase a bigger discount given the opportunity).
If I walked into my local comic shop and they had zero variants, it wouldn’t bothrr me one bit. I READ comics for the content between the covers, not because of some spiffy looking image on the outside. If publishers want to sell a comic, put your best image on the cover. Don’t go trying to sell it with multiple images. Sell me on the ONE awesome image and even more phenomenal interior material.

Great article! As I see it, variants are a deadly thing. On the one hand, I admit loving a lot of them. On the other, I see how badly it can damage retailers and almost force them to take a gamble. I think Valiant is one of the few companies that does variants right, avoiding any wild and wacky things that need to be done, instead opting for simple 1:10, 1:25, etc.

To Brandon: yeah, I went digital. But keep on defending the marginalized.

“The only reason to use older ordering models, is to placate the collector’s market, which is often volatile and always, always, always unsustainable.”

Pistols at dawn, dude.

I have 26 years of hard sales data that really really clearly shows that you will always sell more copies of the first issue of an ongoing series of a meaningful character than you will of a mini-series of the exact same thing. ASM #1 vs ASM #1.1 for a great nearly perfect “head to head” recent example — we gave the books to the same sub customers, and the ongoing not only did better in the short term (by about 15%), but went on to sell about another third more copies of the ongoing, after the “life” of the mini.

We also sold more copies of the collections of the “ongoing” v1 than we did of #1.1.

YES, the sales velocity of MOST periodical is measured in periods that span days (if not hours) — except when it isn’t. Then periodicals will sell and sell and sell if you let them.

I fundamentally and unreservedly revile your statement that this is about “collector’s markets” — we’re a readers store; always have been always will…. and readers are happy to enter into a periodical-driven comic months after release for a select group of titles.

I actually think that the very notion of “seasons” means there’s less of a reason to buy into a periodical, because there is less urgency to “Stay current” — and that “Wednesday Experience” is the engine that really drives a whole lot of this business.

“or rather, the market is supporting the weight of an immense amount of product with a third of the unique product as a base. This is not a sustainable model, but one that’s born out of the ever increasing pressure that the companies are under to keep profits and volume up.”

One thing that never gets brought up in these discussions is our friends at Diamond.

a 1:25 variant for a book that sells 50k copies yields a MAXIMUM circ of 2000 copies — that’s assuming all stores everywhere order exactly in increments of 25, which is patently not possible or true, or even WANTS the variant (some don’t!)

Diamond makes, we’ve always been led to believe, a limited single-digit percentage of cover price on at least Marvel and DC (the other three “premier” publishers are far less clear) — I think a comic like that might only be drawing a gross income of a few hundred dollars. Do you think that’s really paying for the costs of the infrastructure behind it?

I mean, six years ago DCD changed their minimum order threshold from small press to $2500, and one imagines their costs have risen since then — if we assume (and I suspect this is low, as an average) that Diamond is making 15% on a “small press” book (buying at 60% and selling at 45%), then it might be safe to assume that they’re looking for $375 per line item as being “worth it” to distribute. If they’re only making 6% on a DC/Marvel book… well you can do the math and see that handling *most* variants probably isn’t “worth it” for Diamond — especially since I bet you those are the comics most subject to petty complaints about condition and outright lying about receipt, and therefore that cost Diamond the MOST to handle.

It’s a bigger concern, I think, how much bandwidth and resources that Marvel just absolutely wastes for everyone else for just marginal gains that would be much more sustainable if they put that brainpower into different marketing fun — even not caring about Variants in the main store, it take me like 50% more time to do the Marvel order than any other publisher because it’s fiscally foolish to not run their weird math and see if huh, by buying 15 more copies of SAM WILSON CAPTAIN AMERICA #1, *they pay me* $1.42, and I have 15 more copies to try to sell… or liquidate for more profit….and it unlocks a 1:25 that also generally offers a better margin.

But that’s not something that is currently presented to us programatically, and it just consumes a lot of time and attention to do those maths… and it doesn’t inherently sell-through more copies. All for me, at least.

Like… if you’re going to have “order 150% of Y in order to unlock Z”, and you’re doing this on a multi-title plan like the Hip Hops, at least have Y *be a constant and not a variable*. If you make a path to order a product difficult, AND you make it difficult to understand, then you will invariably create friction and poor customer experience somewhere in the chain, and that’s the last thing you ever want to do. “I’d love to order you ‘every Hip Hop cover’ [Beloved Customer Name], but Marvel won’t actually let me do that unless I buy 200 comics I don’t believe I can sell” or “No, I know, [A Different Beloved Customer], that we are ‘”The” SANDMAN store’, but I am physically incapable of ordering you that awesome Jean James cover, ironically because I sell so many copies of SANDMAN!” are not conversations that I, oddly, enjoy having. Go figure!

-B

that was me :p

And somethig hasn’t been said also about this variant crazyness: it kills al of the fun of the back issue search. Before, you were able to identify a specific issue by its cover. You knew you had this specific issue because you remembered the cover. Now, you can’t search and buy back issue, relating on their covers, because you will see in back issues bin tons of covers you don’t know…of comics you already purchased.
It just kills the identity of a specific issue of a comics, which is never good in the long term.

Order the amount you think you’ll sell.

The second and third charts on the page are both for periodicals, in units and dollars. But they only run until the end of 2014 — need to update them soon. They represent just the Top 300s each month, but they go all the way back. Just 2012 through the start of 2015 can be found here: http://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/recentsales.html

Also note that August 2011 did include Justice League #1, so the real pre-DC-relaunch part of it is really closer to 6.0 million copies. But comparing any two months is always a crapshoot, because it is hard to do randomly. Octobers are almost always better than Augusts, for example, and October 2012 had one more shipping week. The most complete figure to look at is still going to be the annual year-to-date comparative: unit sales are up 11% when comparing the first eight months of 2015 and 2014 — and up 27% when comparing with the recession of 2009.

I remember reading here that you estimated the boost due to variants to be around 5k, am I right?
And with the order for the Bombshells #1 being so high, obviously because the pin-up art covers would be a better selling point in print than in digital, it’s quite possible the variants gave their biggest boost this month.
And if we estimate a 5,000 boost to all 21 titles involved… that would be 105,000 just for the variants, placing it as DC’s #2 seller after Batman.

Preliminary look at the DC numbers: Those with freely-orderable variants saw a rise, as Bombshells round 2 proved more popular than last month’s Teen Titans Go. DCYou titles on their 3rd issues fell, as third issues always do, most between 10-20%. Vertigo sales continue to be moribund, though Mad Max is a relative bright spot. The big success was DC Comics Bombshells, which sold very, very well for a digital first comic. More in a week or two when I’ve had a chance to write the full column…

“Marvel announced 53 delays on Secret Wars titles in four weeks in May and June…”
(Behind the scenes: Art director, marketing people poring over the shoulders of the colorists, ranting and shaking their fists, clutching cell phones: “More lens flare! More bling! More lighting effects! More bricks on each and every building! More ants, and microbes on the street! More detail !!!!)

In regard to Prez – you should read the comments on the Beat’s July DC sales analysis.

To quote myself:
“@Brian (and other guy!) – can i say a point about Prez? two points.

1) the preview to Prez in whatever Convergence book that was, – was very strong. The character was President, it had action, and she had agency. She was making decisions and being awesome.

2) IN the first issue of Prez (which I bought) – she had no agency. Not only was she not President, but she wasn’t taking steps to become president. Her Presidency isn’t a result of actions on her part, but of an accident with a fryer, and things being done TO her (dude uploads to youtube against her wishes, a different dude supports her for no reason) – She was NOT A PROTAGONIST.

Hibbs is right, that’s crap writing and crap editing. That’s why I didn’t come back for Issue 2.

Do you really really like Prez? – Buy 3 copies. It’s the only hope.”

to Quote Brian Hibbs:

“I find it pretty weird you’re using a DC comic to try to make a point about indy sales, BUT…. PREZ #1 featured 20 pages of story where the LEAD CHARACTER DID NOT MEET THE STATED PREMISE OF THE COMIC — she, in fact, doesn’t even come CLOSE to becoming President until issue #2. That, right there, is the sign of a writer (and much much more… an EDITOR!) who doesn’t know what he’s doing, and that’s why in my Indy-friendly store where we stumped hard for the book sales between issue #1 and #2 dropped by 60% or so. That’s like if BATMAN #1 ended with Bruce and his parents looking at the paper and talking about maybe seeing a movie over the weekend!”

Seriously. Prez is not a good book. It’s not a good book specifically because it does not do what it says on the tin. If you’re enjoying it – buy 3 copies.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-july-2015-life-the-universe-and-everything/

To @AwesomeDude – First, thanks for your opinion of the book – I can definitely see how Prez #1 could read like that, and see how folks would be frustrated by the lead character not being president by the end of the first issue. I read the preview and first issue differently, with the preview showing intent, and the person Beth Ross would become. I also like how the first two issues are about her choosing what’s important to her, and shows her resolve in the face of what appears to be crushing and inevitable, which in turn informs her decisions and resolve once the plot moves her into position. In terms of becoming president, she is passive. In terms of being president, she is not.

But that said, that’s my reading. That’s the fun of comics, and entertainment in general. Prez is not a good comic for you. Or I guess for Brian Hibbs. And that’s fine. As a reader, it’s your right to enjoy the books you read and it’s frustrating when you don’t – especially if you wanted to like something. As a retailer, I don’t have that luxury. Given my personal tastes, there’s a few comics I wouldn’t be ordering. As a result, I don’t have those books in my personal collection. But as a retailer, it is my job to sell books to people who will connect with them, regardless of my opinion of them – and that’s what I do.

Currently, Prez is my second best selling DC book, next to Batman – which is saying something, because Batman is a dynamo. I’ve had to place re-orders for every issue at this point, and honestly, I probably lost a customer or two from not having an issue here or there at any given point in time. Obviously, my sales don’t reflect the larger market, or even what Hibbs is experiencing – but to that end, Hibbs’ experience don’t reflect the larger market either. He’d probably be the first to admit that his sales charts don’t look exactly like the top 300.

But anyway. I’m gonna keep selling the hell out of a book that my customers seem to enjoy quite a bit, and I’m going to allow my orders reflect that. And I’m also going to go ahead and not read comments sections (beyond, you know, the two days or so I check back on the articles I write) because fun fact: comment sections and opinions sure as heck do not accurately represent anything beyond singular opinion. So I dunno. Keep doing you, I guess, and I’ll continue to purchase far more than 3 copies of Prez because… well, I have a store to run and 3 isn’t even going to BEGIN covering what I need for files.

Sorry. I should make it clear.

The fact that myself, and Brian didn’t personally like Prez isn’t really the key point. The point is, from a neutral stand point, it’s extremely obvious why the book sold so poorly. The lead character does not have agency and the book does not do what it says on the tin. That’s bad writing and bad editing.

As for the DC-You. You’re right. Bad marketing, bad concept, bad execution. DC is in a much poorer position without Bob Wayne. I’m not sure what they need to differently, as not every book can be Batgirl, but they have to do something, and soon.

Marvel, smart but evil…DC, just plain dumb.

I should probably have led with this but – i liked your article. Great specific take from a retailer perspective on how the poorness of Convergence affected the ordering of the DC-You push.

For what it’s worth I’m glad Prez is selling well in your store. Comics that sell well keep the industry afloat, and I’m very much in support of keeping the industry going. And it’s especially encouraging when a book that’s selling well is not a super-hero book and is potentially bringing in new readers.

@AwesomeDude – I’m glad you liked the article – I think our break down is this – I suppose that books like Prez (and really, the whole current DC You initiative) isn’t selling well because of the marketing, and how retailers are ordering. I base that from the fact that these numbers are usually a reflection of initial orders with very little adjustment – because HOLY WOW, retailers are slow moving and a good chunk do not do FOC for whatever reason. I know the orders for issue one can ONLY be that – and while I agree that the drop might have been steeper due to content, I wouldn’t put that down to editorial or creative team.

We can both surely find examples to support our theories – it’s certainly easy to do and there’s a lot of specifics that can be pulled. But after working in comics retail for… man, nine years now? I can tell you how little customers care about not getting the whole story in the first issue – or at least in any form of actionable way. Regardless, I’m pretty sure we’re just going to end up agreeing to disagree. Thanks for reading and offering your opinion though! It’s appreciated.

How could Prez sell badly because she’s not president in the first issue? Wouldn’t that take people reading the first issue and then telling their retailers they don’t like it? So, the sales for like issue 4 would drop?

Prez looks awesome. It also looks like the only interesting DC You book. Superman in jeans isn’t really a strong sales hook.

There was a Prez preview? I’m a long-time comic fan very interested in DCYou, and I had no idea. They did a horrible job promoting these “free tastes”. Even when I knew there was one I wanted to see — for Starfire, and I found out there was a preview because I was confused by what was going on with the character and then reading a review column, good job, DC — I had a very hard time finding it online.

I share “AwesomeDude”‘s take on Prez. I tried the first issue, wondered where the President part was, and didn’t come back.

@AwesomeDude
PREZ isn’t a bad book because she wasn’t President by the end of issue one; it isn’t a DC book because she wasn’t President by the end of issue one. Which is kind of what Brandon seems to be talking about: DC was courting an audience with PREZ who probably doesn’t even look at the DC shelves in the store. Meanwhile, audiences whose bread-and-butter was typical New 52 DC stuff would almost certainly find the stylistic choices made here off-putting. That’s not bad, because DC wanted to court a new audience. They just courted very poorly.

It’s silly to pretend like you’re a ‘neutral observer’ just because you didn’t like a book. It’s well-crafted as hell, with phenomenal design and world-building and an emphasis on character instead of plot. It’s just not a DC book.

It seemed like it would’ve been a Vertigo title once upon a time–or at least the way I treat Vertigo books is how I went with Prez. I liked the first issue enough I’ll check out the collected edition(s) from the library when the series is completed…if I remember to. Just too many good books and prices are too high–standards get raised. If everything’s working right even good books don’t make the cut.

DC’s moves over the last 3-5 years have damaged the brand with me. I’m so far out of DC at this point it’s easier to just not bother with their output altogether and cherry-pick this era of DC in retrospect…once the verdict is in on what’s decent.

I think the main problem is simply the saturation of the market Marvel has done with Star Wars and Secret Wars. They’ve SOAKED the market with those books, which are also priced pretty high. Fans simply can’t afford to buy everything at $4, $5, and $6 a pop — and something has to give. Unfortunately for DC, it’s their books — because no one wants to miss out on the “event that changes everything” for Marvel or their new “canonical” Star Wars series. A bit of a shame, since DC has put out some good books with their DCYou initiative — but no real surprise.

“(And yes, DC did all of those free eight page previews, but did anyone outside of the regular comics community even know that they existed?)”
Probably not. I’m on the margins of the regular comics community, and I only knew about the previews from reading their reviews on The Beat. So, I went to the site, and looked each and every one of them myself. And then I bought none of those comics. I’m not sure what kind of crap shoot strategy is going on at DC these days, but none of the newest stuff makes me want to buy.

Agreed on all points about the failures of marketing and outreach, and DC’s burning readers and retailers alike repeatedly, not only with their waning annual non-events and seemingly neverending trudge of increasingly homogenized weeklies that don’t even tell bloody stories when they’re through, but with the utter disaster that was Convergence, effectively stopping stopping their line, among it several promising nascent titles, in its tracks for a full two months when the tepid Futures End month wasn’t even far back enough to be a distant memory. And I echo that it’s a shame, because there are legitimately good, interesting, and *fun* books on the stands. Check out Doctor Fate — Levitz is back in form, and Sonny Liew’s art is just to die for; there’s energy, a sense of danger, and an endearing uncertainty from the youthful lead, who I can’t wait to grow with from issue to issue! Fletcher and Wu’s Black Canary is just a crackling rock opera! And Prez is a roaring satire, blazing with invention and imagination! I honestly wish I had the cash to invest in some of these books from a creative standpoint myself, but I don’t. I’m just a reader, there’s a lot I want to read, and if DC decide that my money, attention, and good word of mouth that I’m trying to spread, not just to comics readers, but to people who might not be walking into a shop otherwise, aren’t worth my time, then that’s on them. I was excited, now as rumors fly about meat and potatoes, I’m wary; if they aren’t willing to see how this plays out in trade sales, I’ll happily leave too, because I’m obviously not the kind of reader they’d want.

Although I should add that part of the reason Star Trek/GL is selling the GL books is that it’s a number one issue. Hard to compare issue one of a book and issue 43 of a book.

Fables: Wolf Among Us is at least going to issue #16 as they’re soliciting 8 issues a trade and the Vol 2 trade was in the latest Edelweiss catalog. After that, I expect it to be done.

The most unfortunate thing, for me, is that DC continues to have no idea what to do with Superman. Why are Superman books selling in such lower numbers than they did a decade ago? Is he too old-hat? The elementary school kids I teach know who he is as well as they know Batman, Hulk, the Minions, the Ninja Turtles, Spongebob, etc… so he’s popular with kids. Of course, maybe two out of the thousand kids in my classes read comics. But the adult comic readers just aren’t into Superman comics, I guess?

Convergence – an odd case of the PUSHER forcibly breaking the ADDICT of the habit by eliminating the supply.

After two months of being clean, some addicts decide they don’t want to go back to being a junkie.

@Aaron: Ten years ago the Superman titles were crossing over in the “Sacrifice” storyline (Max Lord mind controls Superman, is killed by Wonder Woman) as part of the lead-up to Infinite Crisis. It was a surprise hit, with 2nd printings selling an additional 13K each for both Superman & Action (and a whopping additional 39K for Wonder Woman.)

Quick note to AwesomeDude : good analogy!
And I know it’s beyond the scope of this analysis- but I’d love to know (1) what other comics lapsed-DC fans are spending their money on and (2) does the $3.99 price point deter sales? Seems crazy to me that Image can offer so many cheaper books. And does that price threshold work differently for Marvel than it does for DC? I wonder if part of what we’re seeing is the emergence of Marvel & Image as the new big two…?
I’d also agree with your initial idea that new marketing was/is needed to attract new readers, Dave.

These steep drops even for something as guaranteed as Johns’ Justice League/Snyder’s Batman highly suggests to me that there is something fishy going on at the retailer level. I know DC has made some questionable moves in terms of returnability for DC books and it really sounds like retailers are ordering light on DC books in retaliation.

What a god damn shame.

Between Oct & Nov Previews, Marvel has 282 variant covers. Does anyone seriously believe the market needs or can support that amount?

Whenever buyers of variant covers will be bored and will go to the next trend, don’t expect me to have any tears for all those top publishers with suddent declininng sales and who planted the nails of their own coffin.

Two things:

1) This level of excess is a natural and native result of supporting variant programs all along. When retailers change behavior to get variants OF COURSE they’re going to try to find out just how far you’ll let them push it — that’s capitalism. That is to say that retailers who have been happily playing these variant games for years are the architects of their own petards.

2) Having said *that*, I don’t think that some/most of those requirements are Too Much — I certainly think that I will sell, say, 150% of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #1 as part of a line-wide relaunch as I did of ASM: RENEW YOUR VOWS #2 — an ASM #1 tends to have much much much longer legs than the second issue of a mini-series. *Conceptually* Marvel’s relaunch could function as well or better as DC’s New 52 reboot, and if THAT happens — with the lapsed returning to look, even for an issue or three — these projected numbers will be a tiny fraction of what the market might need. I remind you that the *last* ASM #1 sold-in 560k copies just two years ago, and ASM:RYV #2 sold-in 93k. Giving the market a target of ~140k doesn’t seem all that preposterous under that circumstance?

-B

These numbers don’t really seem insane. There’s nothing saying you MUST chase the variants. You literally aren’t required to fulfill that option.

I think there would be a far greater interest in variant covers if Marvel released very few of them, but made them easy to access. For instance if each month a different series or a milestone issue had one, or maybe two, variants and made them 50/50 in the orders you might see more interest. Instead of the 100 plus a month that nobody can afford all of or even keep track of.

It’s such a beautiful shop and well curated shop. This is depressing news.

@Evan Meadow

Except that superheroes aren’t mainstream. If it weren’t for the cartoons, video games, and movies, most people would not care about DC and Marvel. And even then, they aren’t that relevant outside of the United States. If nothing else, showing that comics can be more than just muscled capes and can have a wide variety of stories to tell is a good thing.

I’m going to miss Bergen. Got some really nice comics there and went to one of the after parties they sponsored. It was great seeing the local artists and their works. Hope that their foray into publishing is successful.

sad news. i wonder how much more of this we’ll see going forward with rents in big cities skyrocketing and margins getting smaller and smaller.

Sounds like the Hussein Obama Economy has claimed another victim.

The amazing thing? The “non-mainstream” and “mainstream” sides of comics are equally elitist, equally obnoxious, both smug and suffering from a massive inferiority complex about what non-comic fans think of their habits.

WB, you’re right. But any store catering exclusively to just one side will never work, And that’s for both mainstream and indy. Wasn’t Bergen Street the one that proudly claimed “We’re no longer going to order any DC or Marvel books unless our customers special order them?”

Saying that sets up an automatic doomsday clock. Because no store can neither ignore the popular, just as much as if they instead chose to ignore the esoteric which can’t be ignored either.

Maggie, you’re right, but Bergen would pride itself more on having copies of anything by Daniel Clowes or Kramer’s Ergot. That store in no way looks like the place to go to get Disney, Asterix, or anything Aw Yeah! People have clearly said they were able to find comics for their children there, but you don’t walk into that place expecting that, and visual first impressions are important.

One of the best stores ever. Sad to see them go!

Evan–
With all due respect, you are incorrect. Many stores that order heavily on Marvel & DC titles also shut their doors with regularity. I’ve seen so many comic shops that fit that description disappear I’ve lost count. Also, I’m going to speculate that you didn’t shop there, and are relying on your interpretations of things you’ve read online about Bergen Street. I would hate for other stores to get the same impression, which is why I’m taking a moment to write.
It doesn’t matter if a store sells bread and milk, or comic books: no store can stock its shelves with items that regularly don’t sell, or OVER stock its shelves with stuff that sells only marginally. Simply put, Bergen Street adjusted it’s ordering to reflect what its customers were actually buying.
When you walk into a comic shop and see stacks of previous -months issues sitting there? That may look impressive when you’re a customer, but it all represents unsold stock that must be leveraged against and subtracted from what the store did manage to sell. It only makes sense to adjust the ordering to eliminate product that isn’t selling and give that shelf space to stuff customers actually want.
Most comics shops don’t carry EVERYTHING. To some extent, they’re all curating. Bergen Street absolutely carried Marvel & DC Comics as anyone who actually shopped there can attest. Many Image Comics are outselling Marvel and DC, at least in Brooklyn, and the shop reflected that. It also stocked books that have dominated the best sellers lists for years like Drama, Smile, and volumes of The Walking Dead just to name a few. There are enough massive, MASSIVE sellers outside the monthly superhero market to support a store like Bergen Street (although again, they carried that stuff too). The shop was a staple of the community and was responsive to that community’s wide tastes, which included a large all-ages section along with everything else. Beyond that, the shop did everything it could to get whatever someone walking in asked for if it wasn’t already there. Sometimes sales aren’t the only factor.

WB–Yah, that’s never a surprising and an always disappointing truth.

I was never a fan of the dark wood actually, just, well, too dark, but the staff was always friendly to me. A small curated selection for all types of comics, and what else should you be doing in a space that size? An contrary to some of this commentary, a really welcoming eye-level to tykes all-ages section. It wasn’t my regular shop, but I had pleasant times there.

I love the Weirdworld comic. I was never a fan of the main character, nor am I too into the whole Secret Wars thing going on, but the art is fantastic and weird and I love it.

I really want to read it: Arkon has been such a jerk, I’m interested to see what was made of him. And of course, I wanna know the terrilbe fate of the Crystal warriors! I’m a huge fans of Saga of Crystar.

What happened in Ant-Man #5 that made it jump so far in sales?

It looks like a special crate/box offer, or a special variant program at the same time than the release of the movie (like “buy 50 of those to 1 special variant cover for this”) but it had clearly nothing to do with readers taking a sudden interest into reading it.

Hi Xavier! Great column, as usual. The phenominon that is Star Wars sales are outrageous. How would Marvel stack up against DC if they didn’t have the numbers from the Star Wrs titles?

Thanks for the response, Xavier.

I do think the Star Wars books are sort of proof that a stable creative team can do a lot for a book/line of books. Darth Vader’s had a stable team, and while Cassaday didn’t stick around on the main book, I’m confident Immonen can deliver on a monthly basis. Sorta like Snyder/Capullo on Batman.

Why in the world would someone pay $25 dollars for a trade that they could have bought for $18 in floppies?!

THOR HC VOL.2 – 2,562 | 136p, $25
Only two months after the release of volume 1, here is volume 2, at a not-very-friendly price, and collecting very few things (only issue 6-8 and Annual 1). Sales are ok but its less than the first volume. Apparently, reviewers were not really happy with the small amount of stories collected.

I mean, there is value in a trade that floppies don’t have (ease of display, ease of re-read, no ads), but also factor in that it’s easier to pay non-cover price for a trade. Amazon marks stuff down on the regular. But I agree, a bit lower a price would be preferable.

Remind yourself that it’s a HC: they are always way more expensive than their floppy counterpart.

What about TPBs of the comics they’re printing?

There is obviously printing costs and staff/production costs but the creative costs of writing/drawing/etc.. have already been paid for. I expect royalties are being paid to some members of the creative team, but they are a percentage of sales.

Is there an average TPB order amount for comics selling in the 4000 – 5000 range? What’s the average sale price? Royalties percentages? Is there a long tail of sales for these books with blips of reorder activity when subsequent TPB volumes come out?

Great analysis, and the numbers ring true. Making indie comics is a tough gig, and only sustainable if you can get into the higher print runs… our experience with our indie title is that digital sales still have a long way to go. Our ratio of print and digital is not close to 10%. Comixology and Gumroad are great ways to theoretically distribute your comic around the world, but buyers who reside outside the distribution area of your printed comic book still need to know about your digital title in order to buy it. And that takes marketing dollars.

This is article highlights why i think publishing your comics on the internet is better. Webcomics help you reach a large number of people for very little. Thanks to services like Patreon and Kickstarter it is getting easier to get people to support the things they love. If you can get your foot in the door I’m sure print is awesome, but don’t discount disregard Webcomics.

“What about TPBs of the comics they’re printing?”

1. With these numbers, how many indie publishers have the resources for a TPB program? One that can keep TPBs in print for years?

2. If you’re selling 5,000 or less of a $4 comic, exactly how many copies of a $15 or $20 TPB usually sell?

Mike

Jamie:

That question is VERY hard to answer from public data (and I remind BEAT-ers that http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/1850/icv2s-top-300-comics-top-300-gns-index is a wonderful link that everyone should bookmark for easy access to data) because the velocity of those kinds of GNs tends to be so low that they don’t actually show up on the charts.

I went back a year to Aug14 and scrolled down to the bottom of the chart looking for something I knew had a trade, and I picked DR SPEKTOR, which lists #3 as selling 5621 copies (FWIW #1 sold 16471, #2 sold 7318, and #4 didn’t chart… but Sep14’s chart cut off at 6300 copies)

The TP charts in Dec14 when it initially ships and sells… 443 copies. It never ever shows up on a sales chart again… which only means it didn’t sell between 4 and 500 copies in any following month. At a pure guess that might suggest roughly 1k copies total in month #1 into comics and all book channels combined. Knowing what I know as a bookseller, and how the long tail functions for “no brand” books, I’d hazard a guess that the print run for the trade was probably 2-3k therefore, and it’s probably fairly unlikely that when then sell out of those copies in 2-ish years that they would go back to press on the book due to velocity being so low.

Its profitable, sure — but only in a desultory way. No one is lighting cigars with $100 bills at those kinds of numbers.

Now, when you start talking about POPULAR properties, then the numbers can drastically swing the other way — SAGA sells like 60k-ish as a periodical release? v4 of the the TP came in at month #1 (Dec14) at like 24k, which probably means 60k or more including the book market, and Diamond shows reorders of 8400, 5100, 4400, 6300, 4800, 4400, and 2600 in the subsequent months (you can multiply that by, say, 1.2 to guess at bookstore sales) — or 150% or so of initials over the next 7 months…. but that’s SAGA, and virtually nothing else performs like that, and it would be extremely foolish to build a publishing plan around thinking you’re going to sell like SAGA :)

I think selling roughly 15-20% of your periodical sales as a TP on initials and then perhaps selling that much again over the course of the following entire year, is a much more realistic benchmark for how a low-circ book is going to function — and that tracks fairly well with how I expect most book-format comics seem to do in my strongly book-oriented retail environment.

-B

Don’t forget that many smaller publishers also sell books directly on their website as well as at cons and through other outlets, so sales figures on many of the trades can be higher and not show up in the bookseller indexes.

Hi Brian, thanks for responding.

I was pretty sure that low circulation books were not selling large number of trades and likely didn’t have that much of a long tale, but it is another revenue source that I think needs to be factored in when talking about how much money is being made from low circulation titles. It’s almost a given that books are going to be put into a trade and I would be surprised if a TPB brought in less money then the digital copy of the comic.

So assume 15% on a 4,000 selling low-circ book = 600 books
Assume Introductory $9.99 price for volume 1 = $5,994.00.
Again assume Diamond is taking 60% = $2,397.60 for the publisher.
I’m not sure what print costs, royalties and production costs would be. But it’s possible that the amount left over would be equal or greater than the supposed $800 – $1100 range for a digital comic.

These numbers are dead on. A small publisher will , most of the time, lose a lot of money on comics that sell under 5,000. Factor in the time to put it together, delivery and all the other small things and its a rough business out there.