How to use this Page

I grew up playing Bubble Bobble on Nintendo and can’t help but this of that game when reading about this book. It looks like an interesting take on competition. Thanks for the recommendation…I will definitely have to pick up this book!

Those are some pretty amazing bubbles!

I love all these ideas for bubble play! The book looks great!

Thanks for the in depth review and fantastic activities! I’ll try the bubble breathing with my boys. And Catherine, I was a big fan of Bubble Bobble too, I must have been subconsciously influenced!

Good questions. Thanks for posting them and the answers. It's always good, too, to check the agency's submission section on its webpage.

Just to echo Donna's point, always always always check the agent's submission guidelines. Even if you think you know them, double-check, and then check again right before you hit send.

Notice, though, I said "agent" not "agency." Often they are the same, but not always. If the agent you're querying has his or her own web site or blog apart from their agency's site, look there for submission guidelines in case their requirements differ (even if only slightly).

With so many good books out there specifically covering the querying process, you should purchase a guide and read it from cover to cover. They usually cover all questions and have online forums that accompany the material. Why leave it all to guess work?

Great questions--and answers. I'm assuming double-spaced manuscript pages also apply when agents ask for pages (no attachments) in an email query? Copying/pasting from Word to email can create unwanted formatting issues; using Notepad as a middleman sometimes helps, but then double spaces are lost (and some email programs don't have a functionality to add them back). Anyone else run into this?

I do have the same issue as Writer Librarian with trying to format pages in the body of the e-mail. Many agents even say they specifically want plain text e-mails, since different e-mail clients don't necessarily click. I've always thought the best answer is to take the number of pages they request (say, 10) from my manuscript as formatted, reformat it for e-mail, and then send regardless of how long it becomes in the body of the e-mail (usually around 5.) It's a laborious process, but I don't know what else makes sense.

Wonderful questions and answers. I've always wondered about the personal stuff in the query letter. Thanks!

Great questions, great answers. Thanks!

A 16 year-old is a minor, so she can't legally sign a contract. What are your options if that situation arises?

Gilbert: I'm pretty sure that somewhere between "query" and "contract", you should let the agent know if you're underage.

Also, from what I've heard, people just have to get their parents to sign/co-sign.

Thanks a lot for sharing the tips in going for development.

Hi,
Fantastic blog, Love your blog.
I will share your blog with my friends. Keep it up with good work. Thanks a lot.

I am amazed to see such an amazing post. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for sharing such an interesting information. I think this is really a very nice post. Thanks for the great content!

Thanks a lot for sharing the tips in going for development.

Thanks for the awesome post. Keep on going; I will keep on eye on it.

Hello,

Very useful and informative content has been shared, I must say that your writing skills are very attractive. Moreover sharing information and acknowledging others is really very good job, keep it up.

Thanks for sharing with us this tip . I’ll use this anti spyware to see if it’s good . I always had problems with spywares , that is already a part of this internet ….

It is a very interesting topic that you’ve written here.
The truth is that I’m really related to this, and I think this is a good opportunity to learn more about it.

Thank you for such a wonderful post.

Interesting and important information. It is really beneficial for us. Thanks

Thanks for sharing with us this tip . I’ll use this anti spyware to see if it’s good . I always had problems with spywares , that is already a part of this internet ….

Question: if the author already had an offer for publication, why did he/she need an agent to sell what is already "sold"?

Thanks for the inspiring story on this dreary winter morning, Jessica!

Elaine

Congrats to you and your author! Rule breaking can work, if done correctly. (sounds like a total oxymoron, I know)

@phil - for the contract. An offer is not the same as "sold". An agent can spot problem clauses because they know what to look for; an excited writer doesn't. There's also a chance for better terms if there's an agent involved, rather than just getting handed the standard boiler plate "as is".

@phil - and I would add to Josin's response: to sell the next one

One book does not a career make, and an agent would be a huge asset for further sales.

@phil--another thought. An offer of publication is only an offer. An agent might be able to get a quick read at other houses and get multiple or better offers for the author to choose from. The goal is to find the house that will publish the book well--not just publish it. And as Josin said, even if the author goes with the original publisher, the contract can be very different.

As to Phil's question, I'm thinking that even with an offer from a publisher, an agent can navigate all the ins and outs and get the best deal for the author. If I get an offer, I'll certainly want to find an agent, because that end of things is time consuming and not very creative and takes away from writing time.

Meanwhile, congratulations to you and your author, Jessica.

This is such great news for you and the author. I clicked the button but I thought I would write it anyway: this made my day!

Also to Phil, having an offer for publication as a prize in a contest is not the same thing as actually selling the book and being published. This just demonstrates the variety of levels publication can take.

Loved the uplifting post, Jessica! This is one of those stories that inspire hope and a push to just--go for it!

Congrats to you and the author!

I'm with Phil. It seems like those contests include a number of copies of the book anyway and are usually run by small presses and include publication.

@Phil...authors are always going to need someone to go to bat for them. A lot of authors work without agents. I do and it's stressful hell. But the releationship between publisher and author, small press or large house, is tricky at best and the author is never able to put his or her guard down. Publishers only have their own interests at heart. This is basic human nature because there's money involved. And a publisher, large or small, e-book or print, will screw over an author the first chance they get. This is obviously why I'm posting anonymously.

This is the kind of story I love reading. :)

Thanks, Jessica!

A great story, and fabulous outcome for both of you.

Phil Hall, I can answer that question because I've been in that situation.

The answer is that the agent got me 10x as much $ as I would have gotten for myself.

When I had no agent, I made a living from my books but it was a ramen noodles living. Now I'm making an organic filet mignon living.

That said, an agent who was closed to queries wouldn't've been my choice for who to query.

Phil... (don't you love that everyone wants to answer you?) the truth is, it is harder to get an agent than a publisher, and the choice of an agent is more important. The author did exactly the right thing in using the offer from a publisher to help her get an agent.

Congrats to this author! They had a very good reason to think they were the exception to the rule. I'm glad it worked out so well.

"the truth is, it is harder to get an agent than a publisher"

This is an excellent point. And it's why I'm still working unagented and dealing with things I'd rather have an agent deal with. I'm contracted to do multiple books a year and there are times when I'd love to have agent's advice and representation. But a lot of agents haven't embraced all the changes in publishing and don't recognize authors who are, indeed, getting published and making money in non-traditional ways. With most, it's still about the unsolicited query and a lot of us have moved on from that place. This is something I don't get. And I think it will change. But it's taking longer than it took Grandma to figure out the iPad.

Anon @ 11:45

I don't understand how her message got through. You said your email system would send her an automatic reply then trash her query. Am I missing something?

Holly

Good post.
chers,
mood

Rules are important but another trap I see beginner writers and above fall into is following rules too closely. Like following the rules will make their story work. What do you think?

First, I love that picture. But second, I totally agree. Yes, people do break these rules, but for every person who successfully does it, there are thousands for whom the rule-breaking only hurts them. I feel the same way about grammar and punctuation. I think you have to understand the structure and flow of our language to really get creative with it.

This is a great post!

I have to laugh when I see anyone talking about how NOT to overuse adverbs. J.K. Rowling is laughing all the way to the bank by throwing this rule out of the window. I counted 12 adverbs on one page alone in the Prisoner of Azkaban. I, personally, do not find them distracting. Perhaps if we as writers focus more on developing our story, our characters and our dialogue, then our use of adverbs will be . . . overlooked?

Excellent post! Great writers break the rules all the time, but they do it with skill and they do it with purpose. Thanks :)

Totally agree! You have to know what you're doing before you break the rules, and sadly it's a fact of life that you pretty much have to be established before anyone will let you get away with breaking them (or at least the BIG ones). :)

I think it's true that you have to know what you're doing in order to break it, but I also think it's true that story trumps the rules. However, that means that the story, or some aspect of the story, has to be AMAZING -- as with JK Rowling.

I remember with my first book, I had to go back and revise that manuscript probably fifty times with each rule that I learned. Now most of it is second nature, though I still need loads of reminders. :-)

Oooh I love the discussion going on today! Thank you for all the comments. Here are a few of my own thoughts:

Laura - True, but it's a good first step. They have to become comfortable with the mechanics sometimes before they break free and figure out what takes the story to that next step. ;D

Sarah - that's a great example!!

Jenny - Yes. JK is the perfect example of a great book using a LOT of adverbs. But JK does a lot of showing too. Thus I think it works.

Melissa - I'd say it depends. I know that sounds terribly noncommittal but it's true. There are so many situations out there that may differ.

Susan - YES! It is like that, it seems tricky at first, then it becomes almost second nature, and we move on to the more complex things. But those extra words and such still have a tendency to sneak in.

That picture made me laugh out loud.

I'm going to teach a class to teens this summer on writing, and I want to make sure I explain this part well - that you HAVE to know and learn the rules. But I also want to encourage them to be themselves, and to not fear breaking them. So tricky.

My head spins with the rules, and the variations of the rules, and the rules we can break, and blah, blah, blah. BUT, I do learn those rules, and they make sense to me (um, when I understand them).

I'll raise my coffee cup to that! Excellent post on an excellent point. If we want to be taken serious in the business we need to take it serious. You're right, it can be hard to figure out which rules are okay to break and which aren't but with enough research and putting one's self out there, it can be discovered!

Great picture, Lisa. I appreciated what one of the authors said at the SCBWI Temecula retreat, that broken rules can cause fatigue in the reader. As writer's we can't say rules schmools.

I was just ask about how important grammar rules are when writing novels. I said, VERY. Learn them well. Learn when to break them to make your prose soar or to create characters that talk the way you want them to talk in order to reveal who they are.

Rools is very important.

Susan - Good luck with your class! That's exciting.

Julie - I know what you mean.

Heather - *clinks glass*

Leslie - Good point! I actually read a book not that long ago that did break the same rule over and over again, and it did get tiring. A little dab will do ya.

Lee - Thems is importants. :D

That picture made me laugh out loud. As if seagulls understand no-go zones? LOL!

great post (and yep, I LOVE that pic)

Ebony and Lynda - I LOVE that pic too! I've been having fun finding good ones lately. Godzilla at prom is still my fav though.

Great post, great point. I agree 100%. A rule broken in the right way at the right time can make a manuscript stand out, in the BEST way possible. But a rule broken because of ignorance and lack of craft is just poor writing.

Ishta - Well said!! And not just cuz you agree. He he he

I liked that last point especially - takin the thing seriously.

Margo - thanks! Yep, I joke around a lot, but underneath I am very serious about my craft. ;D

See. That is why I follow the rules. Great post! :D

Brenda - Yes you do. And you do a very nice job at it!

Yes, yes, yes! Please in the name of Zombies learn the rules before deciding which to break or adapt for your MS. Slush Piles everywhere will thank you.

And never stop learning either. As much as you might think all the rules are known, there is always more to learn about craft that can be applied to your work. Choosing to always grow as a writer is what marks you as a professional.

Angela @ The Bookshelf Muse

Angela - SO well said! A. Love the zombie line. But more importantly, B. NEVER STOP LEARNING - real writers know this. We can ALWAYS grow, learn, and improve.

This is why I love reading books on the craft of writing - to learn the rules but also discover how to properly break them if I wanted to. Great post!

Totally agree... if you don't know the rules, you won't know when it's ok to break them.

Ghenet - Books on craft are great! Same with conferences and just plain old blogposts. :D

Austin - Yup. If you break 'em you better be doing it purposefully and for good reason.

Makes sense to me. Master the rules so you know how to judiciously break them.

Lydia - Glad it makes sense. :D

Love the pic--so appro po!

Great, great post, Lisa!!! :-)

Elle - I love that pic too!!

Shannon - :D Thanks!

I'm celebrating your nicetude today, Lisa! :)

That was far from a rant, just laying out the facts :)

And as someone who's been rejected (although not by you) I can proudly say that I simply believed the agent when they told me whatever they told me was the reason for rejection. And yes one of those was a 'frankly, you're heroine isn't likeable enough to be marketable'. I took that as valuable input and altered my character for the better :)

Whoa…back up the truck !

As a third party observer I see something very interesting going on here. Both author and agent have been poked with a pencil where it hurts.

Author…how dare you tell me my character is unlikable, she’s been rattling around in my head for months…well actually years. You narrow minded so and so…

Agent…how dare you tell me I don’t understand books, they are my life, I am a success you narrow minded so and so…

Both…don’t tell me how to do my job you narrow minded, blah, blah, blah…

Ms Trite says: Oft’ times when you poke people with a pencil the ‘point’ you’re trying to make breaks.

I don't disagree with you and I think that authors should take constructive criticism and use it to their advantage. I am finding though that the characters that get created are like people I know. Maybe even more so than people I know, because I know their inner most hopes and dreams. I can see in their minds and feel everything they feel. I love most of them and I can honestly say that I have created a antagonist that I loath. I guess what I am trying to say in too many words is, writers look at it like you’re cutting on our loved one. And putting the passion in the story and the characters is an integral part, but you have to be able to grow as a writer and not be so overly sensitive. Trust that the people that are the experts will lead you down the right path.

One of the first things I've had to tell anyone I critique or anyone in any critique group I've ever been in, or when I was working my way through school as a writing tutor, was "Do not defend your manuscript."

Unless you plan to stand over the shoulder of everyone reading your book and explain to them what you meant to write, you'd be better off just writing what you meant to write. I hate it when I tell someone "This isn't working" and she comes back with five minutes explaining to me why it should work, why I'm too stupid to understand the great art she was striving to achieve, and how unenlightened I must be (and, I'd note, everyone else).

In one of my writing classes in college, the professor imposed a "cone of silence" on the person whose story was being critiqued in order to prevent exactly this because while defending, we're not listening.

Rant away! It's absolutely true.

The "delete" button must be a very good friend of yours, Jessica.

Yes, they probably do think you just "don't get it", but that's because THEY don't get it. Sure, it's possible that this story just didn't work for you and could work for someone else. But the author's defensive response gives me the feeling they should take another look at their work. A professional would just move on, either tweaking their ms if they agreed or leaving it as is if they didn't.

Please continue to give opinions in your rejections when you think it's warranted, Jessica. They DO help. If someone doesn't want to accept your comments, that's their problem, not yours.

I'd give my left arm to hear an agent saying what doesn't work. At least I know she's looked at the writing and taken the time to form an opinion instead of just rejecting.

If a writer can't take that kind of constructive criticism, they're in the wrong business. This kind of response tells me they are not looking to write the best possible book. They're merely looking to be told how smart and fabulous they are. To which I say, "Yeah. Good luck with that."

I see this as a *learning curve* all aspiring authors go through in order to attain publication.

They're no more stupid or mean-spirited than a baby learning to walk who falls down and cries in frustration. Like that baby, the thing to do is

Try Again.

And again.

again.

again.

again.

Cry if you need to, but keep on *learning* the craft and *trying.*

As a published author and college English instructor, I internally laugh at anyone who gets their panties in a bunch over their writing.

As I tell my critique group and my students--if you have to sit next to the reader telling them that what you're writing is off-formula or why the unlikeable heroine really is likable--that means you haven't done a good job with your writing. Since the writer isn't sold along with the book, you better make sure your writing/thinking/reasoning is 100% apparent on the page.

-S.

Rules of Publishing: Mondays are for squishing ants. :-)

i agree with anne in that it is great to receive feedback. doesn't matter to me if it is good or bad as long as it's constructive.

you rejected by ms with a standard form rejection, okay the ms wasn't for you i could take it, but there was a tiny part of me that did want to know what it was that turned you off. after all how am i to improve my story and make it the best it can be if not for feedback? i hesitated to contact you and ask this question (honestly i did) as i appreciate how busy you are, but i really wanted to know. so i contacted you and i have to say you were very gracious and told me the ms was too convoluted. i appreciated it because i needed to hear it (and it went on to get me a great agent).

I think we're talking about two different subjects here. One is whether or not a given reader buys into a story (subjective). The second subject is whether or not a set of common-sense rules exists in publishing. I believe they exist and as a writer you have complete control over whether or not you break them. And you break them at your peril -- that is to say, if you want to earn a living as a novelist, you have to provide something publishers can sell and consumers want to read. That's the first rule. So if in the process of writing your book your characters take you into realms you never thought they would, where these unwritten rules start to snap, you'll probably have marketablity and/or credulity issues. Other examples: The likeable protagonist is a big one, especially if you want to start a franchise. Knowing who will buy your book and aiming in their direction, or better still crossing demographics to lure in more readers (Potter, Hunger Games, where YA crosses age borders). Subject matter or even word count stays within genre norms. Avoiding elements that a given readership won't relate to (Tom Clancy military detail in a supernatural romance, for example, even if a key character is in the military). Or maybe your story embraces too many potential "turn offs" (too violent, sexual, political, religious, etc), or not have enough of something a genre requires (supernatural elements, romance, forensic detail, whatever readers love about a genre). Chances are if you aren't mindful of these things, you won't sell your book because all of these so-called rules swing you back to the first subject -- subjectivity -- and agents and/or editors won't be seduced by your story because it won't ring the bell for what type of book they need in a given area. And we certainly know that virtually every book needs to fit in a given area. Of course this stuff is never fun to talk about. Creative fields in reality -- when you talk marketability and consumer-friendliness, etc -- lose their sexiness when you realize that you can't just let your creation go where it wants/needs to go because even if it's one hundred percent where it honestly needs to go as a narrative, you could lose the reader. Whereas if you adhere to certain rules, maybe you won't lose your reader and you'll sell your book. Art and commerce, always a lively debate!

You may both be right. You don't know the writer, the writer doesn't know you. You're both making assumptions and you're both being awfully protective of your credibility and authority in your separate parts of this business.

It's all subjective.

And that's why it's sometimes best to just send a form decline.

Every person who reads a manuscript that isn't theirs, is casting it through their own spyglass. Every reader, from beta readers to editors to agents, brings their own subjectivities. And in the case of editors and agents, they not only run the manuscript through their overt subjetivities of what they *like* to read, but also their covert subjectivities (disguised as objectivity) of what they think will sell, based upon their vast experience in the industry.

Sometimes writers really do need to improve their works. I think making a character likeable is running the most subjective route. Some readers need to like a character, some don't. But works can always be improved.

But I also think some editors and agents get in their own way, looking for the sure thing. They look so hard for the sure thing, that they miss the sure thing.

Lord of the Flies was declared “An absurd and uninteresting fantasy which was rubbish and dull” by an early reader. It was rejected by 20 publishers before selling 14.5 million copies

Anne Frank's diary was described by one editor thusly, "The girl doesn't, it seems to me, have a special perception or feeling which would lift that book above the 'curiosity' level." How's that for someone not liking the character. Of course it was also rejected by 15 other publishers.

JK Rowling's Philosopher's Stone was rejected by nearly a dozen publishers including Penguin and Harper Collins. No doubt, they feel justified in their rejections.

Certainly authors and editors/ agents have work to do on both sides of the table. So, I have two final comments.

1) If a writer believes in his or her book/ character, wait until someone can see what you see. You'll both be the better for it.

2)Agents, please offer constructive comments whenever possible. An author's "defense" is knee-jerk. But, if there really is a glaring problem to be pointed out, then the author will grow because you took the time to illuminate it.

Thanks.

This really does fall into the category of authors learning to deal with criticism...in a broad sense.

The worst criticism is often a good thing most authors don't recognize. In other words, there's nothing more boring than a book on amazon three star ratings all the way down the line (snooze). Usually, the books with a balance of one star and five stars that are the best.

Sorry if this sounds more author oriented than agent oriented, but criticism is something all authors need to learn how to deal with if they are going to maintain their sanity.

Do you really think I’m so narrow-minded as an agent that I don’t understand books unless they follow certain formulas or rules?

I don't think the complaint is that you're too narrow-minded to understand the book. I think the complaint is that you're too narrow-minded to take a chance that the book might be a hit despite the supposed flaw you've noticed.

For example, what I'm hearing in your post is that books with unlikable characters are never published, no matter how brilliant the book may be otherwise. I know that's an untrue generalization, but it points out the problem. Published books follow certain formulas. Agents are scared of books that step outside those rules, even if breaking a rule is necessary for the story the author wants to write. An author who wants to tell a story about how an unlikable protagonist redeems herself is facing an uphill battle against the preconceptions of agents who demand first and foremost that the main character must be likable.

And yes, I've tried to sell such a novel, although not to you. :)

As a reader, how many hours will I spend with a character I don't like? That would be zero. If an agent -- or any experienced, thoughtful, respectful reader that I trust -- tells me something's not working, I am damned well going to thicken up my skin think about it.

Anne,

I hope that you would not give your left arm for any such thing.

I used to think that if I could just get one book published by a major publisher I could die content. Now that I've had several, I know it's not that simple. There isn't any Arrival, there isn't any moment when you've achieved your goal as a writer. Ultimately writing itself is the goal, and sometimes you wonder if any of the sacrifices you've made for writing are really worth it.

Certainly a left arm wouldn't be.

I see this conversation: "Your character just didn't grab me: she's not likeable, etcetcetc" vs "I just don't write the typical etcetcetc" as a lack of communication, not a real argument that can become a productive learning experience.

The Agent has been hard-trained to be objective, and to develop a subjective response to what will be popular with a very clearly defined market.

The Agent is all about marketing to a broad enough readership that the Agent's cut will make the Agent a living.

The writer is all about stirring heart-strings that are in tune with the writer's own.

The Agent is saying "give me something popular" and the Writer is saying "Make THIS popular, not that."

The Agent knows where to find the market, and how to recognize what that market is already hungry to devour.

The Writer has no clue where to find a market. The writer feels (not thinks) that the things she reads from a particular market that she ALMOST likes mean that the market will welcome her work because it corrects the flaws in the market's taste.

The two aren't talking about the same thing, so they don't communicate.

I blog about writing craft (from a professional mass market writer's point of view) with practical step-by-step break-downs of how to imagine the story-idea and then shape and craft that idea to fit a market before ever setting a word down in electrons.

It's what the writer does before "having" the idea that causes this non-argument conversation over a completed manuscript.

I've taught writing for more than 20 years and had many successful students finally "get it" and take off.

My blog post last week was another in a long series on Worldbuilding, and Nov. 16, 2010 (I post on Tuesdays on a co-blog) will be step-wise instructions on what I call "Information Feed" (techniques to avoid the expository lump which is often the cause of the "didn't grab me" and "not likeable" reaction).

http://aliendjinnromances.blogspot.com/2010/11/worldbuilding-with-fire-and-ice-part.html

Anonymous's comment on "learning curve" is just exactly true. Coordination is gained by practice! I try to supply something to hold onto while you practice creating a Mass Market product.

Jacqueline Lichtenberg
http://jacquelinelichtenberg.com

There should be a warning with this post that reads: "If you're in a bad mood and you feel like having an agent for breakfast, please don't read this."

And I'm in a good mood today :)

That's the danger of email and instant insults. You can fire off a reply as quick as hitting "reply".

People who send out things like that are the reason so many agents don't even send rejections anymore. That way there's nothing to reply to.

And what planet is that guy on that he thinks "alpha hero / beta heroine" is the "norm". Go to the library and read a few recent books. They don't all follow that pattern.

@Remus Shepherd
I don't think the Agent-Response is about "unlikeable character" (even when that's what the Agent has to say) but about "likeability that isn't broadly appealing enough to suit the market I can reach."

As far as selling a book about a truly unlikeable character (who does or does not "redeem" him/herself), the writer must have a huge track-record of sales on other titles, a developed following the writer can count on to buy a book and finish reading it, because in other books the writer delivered the goods.

EXAMPLE: Marion Zimmer Bradley's TWO TO CONQUER about a rapist.

Books are one market, but film is expensive and so needs an even broader market. To learn how to present an unlikeable character in an appealing light, read Blake Snyder's SAVE THE CAT! series.

"Save The Cat" is the first action you see the character performing - an act that suggests the character's redeeming feature without nailing it on the head. Immediately, you relate to the character, then find out about the flaws. Snyder teaches exactly how to do this.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Likeability is all about SHOW DON'T TELL - or as I said in my previous post here, about INFORMATION FEED.

What you illustrate first, what you illustrate second, etc. -- the way you intro a character is what counts. Expository lumps, non-artistically chosen actions can make a loveable character icky.

And it's also about Worldbuilding - how you illustrate the world the character functions within, the contrast between internal and external worlds and how you choose point of view.

All these craft techniques have to be mastered and interwoven, orchestrated with ease of performance before you can tell the story of a really unlikeable character to a broad enough audience for an Agent to make a living off their cut.

But most beginning writers are actually telling the tale of a truly likeable character who seems unlikeable because of failure of technique and craft.

That's why they argue back "You just don't understand" -- the beginning writer doesn't understand that the words they have presented don't say what they imagine in their minds.

As Anonymous said, it's a baby learning to walk, clumsy and tumble-bump at first, then smoother.

Agents aren't in the business of teaching writing craft. Don't expect anything more than "the main character just isn't likeable" as a response.

Jacqueline Lichtenberg
http://jacquelinelichtenberg.com

Sorry, I forgot to click the box to get an email on subsequent comments. Now I'll listen to the convo!

For a rant, pretty pitiful.

When a writer gets comments, they need to shut up - except for a sincere "Thank you." no matter what is said.

Although I consider it to be a separate topic, I agree with 'wry writer' that agents (and I would add, editors) typically don't welcome or take criticism too well themselves (though it isn't my perception that they generally ask for it or want it).

Regarding 'subjectivity', helloooo. These opinions are subjective, but they aren't reckless or made without reason. In this corner, with a record of 78-10-15, with 35 knockouts, at a trim and taut 102 pounds, we have Experienced Professional. (Cue wild cheers, stamping feet. [Maybe not.]) And in this corner. with a record of 1-0-10, at a bloated-as-their-manuscript 250 pounds, we have Would-be Novelist. (Cue derisive laughter, jeers.)

Whoa! Stop the fight now! I think we can see how this ends.

Part of me wants to say, "Oh, for God's sake agents, PLEASE do stop your whining and grow the heck up." and the other part of me says, "Thanks for the insight, it's always good to know what/how agents are thinking or reacting to what we write, do, or say."

But honestly...

Writing a 'black-hat' hero, a bad guy readers wind up pulling for, is a tough thing to do. Study Terrence Lore Smith's books. He did it superbly.

As my grandmother would say: What a shit-storm! Jesus. Somebody just say "Uncle" already.

And we wonder why agents send form rejections.

Having been on the author end of criticism I didn't want to hear, I understand the heat. I think it best if an author responds with, "How can I improve this, in your opinion?" but that isn't always easy to say.

Jessica, you have the DUTY to spot the flaws. You also have the decency to point them out. It's unfortunate that you get razed for it. I don't blame you for being upset. At the same time, it's still subjective, and there's always the offer to the author to submit it to another agent if they don't care for your feelings about it. Someone else might love their abrasive character. Of course, from your end, THAT isn't easy to say in the heat of the moment either.

Yucky Monday! Hopefully the next thing you read and the next bit of correspondence is brighter.

It sounds like you are reacting to the type of writer who either 1) can't take or acknowledge criticism 2) lacks the self control to refrain from immediately blasting back a defensive response or 3) isn't able to shrug it off when she sees the agent clearly doesn't "get" the work. (If that's the case, that agent wouldn't be a good fit for the book anyway, hmm?)

It must be frustrating to deal with this kind of response, but on the other hand, I doubt there's anything you can say to change their minds and convince them your criticism isn't totally off base. They will believe what they want to believe.

I guess you could just reply with a link to this post going forward, though. :)

I've had a lot of people tell me that the reason I get rejected is because agents are just looking for formulaic crap or something that rips off whatever is popular at the time.

I actually get rather annoyed whenever I hear the sentiment. I tend to think that if I'm being rejected it's either because my work wasn't good enough or because it just isn't for someone, but when people try to comfort me about rejections I always get the same comments.

I think there are a lot of people out there who really believe that the majority of books published aren't any good and that their books is better because it's the one standout in a crowd of mediocre crap. Granted, they're kind of making the rest of us look bad, and that's irritating even if we're not the ones directly having to deal with it as you are.

Why reel yourself in? If you want to rant, what the heck, let loose with both barrels and have at it. You're entitled. Plus it's healthy to vent now and again. Especially, as you intimate, someone really ticked you off. Let it loose. Sometimes you just gotta get it off your chest. Actually, I found your rant rather restrained. What I'd really like to see is one unleashed and reel-free.

Maybe if enough writers tell you "You just don't get it." you will finally get it. Why, we're just trying to help - and offering our rightgeous, bitchin' manuscripts to help you land the monster deal. Honestly babe, we are growing weary of waiting for you to catch up. We're happy to give you a second chance, an opportunity to recognize the brilliance, but you've got to get serious or we might move on.

Likeable and unlikeable are both really, really subjective. There are people who love Bella and Nora. I hate them and think they're two-dimensional and in need of personality transplants. There are people who love Felicity Worthington. I don't. All that means is that I find them unlikeable, that doesn't mean that they ARE unlikeable because clearly people like them.

The same is true for you. You can find a character unlikeable. For you, they ARe unlikeable. But that doesn't mean everyone will feel that way.

so true.

This summer my critique group said my character was unlikeable. I wanted to say, "But she's damaged, and rebellious, and hardened by life." But none of that mattered if still no one wanted to spend their precious time with her.

I changed her. The plot is still the same. The story, however, is completely different.

I'd call that a mini-rant if anything. :) I understand why agents don't like to give feedback because it's a two-edged sword. Writers (myself included) say we want to know why you passed on us, but many can't handle the truth.

Anonymous:

"Likeable" is not subjective in the terminology used in commercial markets. It's a technical term, jargon or code.

They don't mean whether "everybody" or even "anybody" will like a character.

They mean whether enough diverse people would like that character to make the product commercially viable. It's not personal, it's business (yeah, real bad taste in the mouth).

An Editor or Agent is trained the hard way (punishment and reward shocks) to recognize what has the broad commercial profile to make enough money to make it profitable FOR THE AGENT -- calculated on effort-to-return ratio, or Return On Investment (ROI in investing).

Jacqueline Lichtenberg
http://jacquelinelichtenberg.com

Oooh, it's awfully dark and gloomy up there.

There now, you see how wrong people can be? That there is what you might call the doorway to a place of enchantment...

Too many aspiring authors show the reader reason after reason not to read before they show any hint of a reason to read. Then they want to bully the reader up the chimney. It don't work that way.

I know I am guilty of being blind to my own flaws as a writer. I hope I never hassle an agent because of my own shortcomings.

My dearest wish (and there are probably writers/agents/editors who will agree) is that science will invent a Common Sense injection (though, not a vaccine--television already took care of that).

It's a pretty human reaction to want to blame others for your own failures. When a writer says, "You just don't get it," they're doing exactly that--trying to protect their ego by blaming someone else for the fact the writing didn't connect with the reader.

However, owning your failure is a necessary first step to improvement. You have to comprehend that something is not perfect before you become capable of making it better.

Learning hurts, but you'll never rise above the level you're at now unless you accept feedback. Take it on the chin, everyone.

Oh my, we’re all taking ourselves a bit to seriously today.
Here’s my ‘part two’ comment.

Once a writer figures out what the hell it is agents, publishers, editors, and readers want they have weathered many a rejection storm. For a writer to get pissed at an agent because ‘said’ agent doesn’t get the gist of the character, or whatever…that writer is either inexperienced or soooo… famous he or she feels they have a right to tell the agent to pound sand.
Really Jessica…you criticized someone’s work, does it really matter to you what they think? You are not in the business to make friends you are in the business to…what is it that you do…oh…represent and present.
That’s it babe.

To the writer…your inexperience is showing. You don’t like what someone says about your efforts…two words…move on.
I love Mondays.

I love it when you cause a ruckus.

Me, too!

As someone who is currently in the query process, let me add my two cents. I appreciate feedback and will not be ungrateful when an agent takes the time to clarify why they said no.

Two words: Lisbeth Salander

Ended up loving the crap out of that dysfunctional, mean & nasty little person...and she was obviously highly marketable.

Personally - be it from an agent's or author's viewpoint - I think it's all subjective.

Anonymous:

My point is that the Agent doesn't know -- and it isn't their job to know -- why they can't market a given property.

"The character isn't likeable" is a response that could mean "fix the point of view" -- but the Agent isn't required to know if that would work or what it would take you to make it work.

If the Agent gives you a clue, take it to a professional writer (not just a published writer, but someone who knows how to teach what they've learned) and find out what to do to fix that problem.

Chances are good you don't have to change the character, just the place where you start Chapter One.

Jacqueline Lichtenberg
http://jacquelinelichtenberg.com

JJbene...
you are beyond correct..owning failure is the first step to success...it means we're paying attention to more then ourselves.

It's "above and beyond..." to give a meaningful explanation for a rejection, and reasonable people would be grateful. But then there aren't too many of them.
I hope you will be kind enough to continue to give your explanations, despite the unkindness of man's ingratitude.

I just thought I'd check back in to see what transpired during the day. Ha! So many panties in a wad, so little time! Thanks, Jessica, for stirring the Monday pot. :-)

Jessica,

I love your blogs. They're so entertaining and stimulating and educational. I love the way they get everybody riled up and thinking about the good, the bad, and the ugly.

You go girl!!

I wish ALL agents would give us feedback like that! It took TWO years of polite rejections until finally an editor hit the nail on the head. Now I know what's wrong and am revising like crazy. Telling a writer "I didn't fall in love" is a waste of time.

I hope to find an editor turned-agent--what a big help and time-saver. PLEASE keep telling it like it is--we're listening!

The only rule to remember in writing is that there are no rules.

If there were, I wouldn't be published, because I break just about all of them!

@ Saturday Writers

Quote: "I love it when you cause a ruckus."

The sad part is, she doesn't actually have to do anything. A blog post of five words that reads "I don't rep space monkeys," will instantly generate the following response:

5 people who agree that space monkeys don't actually constitute a genre in fiction.

14 people who agree that Jessica should rep whatever she wants, and if space monkeys aren't on the list, that's ok.

2 people who wish Jessica did rep space monkeys, as that's what they're writing.

1 person up in arms against Jessica's racist denigration of space monkeys.

3 people who are fed up with all the rules about space monkeys, but continue to visit the blog anyway.

1 person to explain that publishing these days is too narrow-minded to take a chance on space monkeys, and that's why there aren't any good books published.

1 person who skims the post and fires back in defense of NASA.

1 patient response from Jessica, reiterating that she really doesn't have anything against space monkeys, it's just a personal taste, and she can't sell what she doesn't love.

And....

1 snarky response from somebody who wishes the insanity would just stop (me).

There, did I miss anyone?

Memphis Knit Mafia Need holiday gifts? We are having a fundraiser and will make hats, neck warmers, cowls, muffs, and fingerless mitts for your holiday gift needs! Contact us for custom orders and photos to come!! Please tell us if you are interested
it is very interesting story

@ LUCY... LMAO!!

@ Anonymous... This quote "I wish ALL agents would give us feedback like that! It took TWO years of polite rejections until finally an editor hit the nail on the head. Now I know what's wrong and am revising like crazy. Telling a writer "I didn't fall in love" is a waste of time."
I second this motion!

Anonymous:

"Likeable" is not subjective in the terminology used in commercial markets. It's a technical term, jargon or code.

They don't mean whether "everybody" or even "anybody" will like a character.

They mean whether enough diverse people would like that character to make the product commercially viable. It's not personal, it's business (yeah, real bad taste in the mouth).

An Editor or Agent is trained the hard way (punishment and reward shocks) to recognize what has the broad commercial profile to make enough money to make it profitable FOR THE AGENT -- calculated on effort-to-return ratio, or Return On Investment (ROI in investing).

I've never read of an agent thinking or saying that they disliked a character, a book's plot, an author's world building or the entire concept of a book, but taking it on anyway because it was commercially viable and they had no plans to ask for revisions. I know some agents will take on something they feel needs work, but they ask the author to revise.

Likeable refers to the characters or other factors. Jessica said that a tough and damaged protagonist could just be unlikeable. She didn't say that there's no market for a tough and damaged protagonist. There is. I read a rave review about a book with one such protagonist not long ago. There are books with characters who are out-and-out barely-if-at-all sympathetic bitches, and some people love them while others don't. Likeable does not mean commercially viable. IT means likeable.

I once read on a literary agent's blog that she hated a particular well-known book. She told authors not to query her if their books were like this particular book. She said she didn't care how well it sold, she didn't like it and that was that. Given that books very similar to that one continue to sell extremely well and others are still finding representation, I think it's safe to say that when an agent says likeablie, they mean whether or not they, as human beings, like the work. Otherwise, that other agent would have been happy to take on clone books because they are clearly highly commercially viable. Some agents might use the two terms interchangeably, but that doesn't mean all do. It's not fair to make a general statement that all agents mean one thing. I know that not all do because I've seen them draw that line.

What makes something ommercially viable is also subjective. Books have been rejected because agents or editors thought they wouldn't sell or wouldn't sell well and then those same books have gone on to be megabestsellers. Books that seemed like sure things have flopped bigtime. I know this because I've seen agents and editors say as much.

Jessica and other agents have said that they've passed on something because they didn't connect with some aspect of it, but they are certain it will sell. Agents have said that they've passed for that reason, have been certain it would sell, and then seen the deal, thus proving that they were right. They've passed, bot based on commercial viability, but their own personal taste.

Even in this post, Jessica doesn't say another reading might think a tough and damaged character is commercially viable. She says another reader might like what she doesn't. Even if she meant commercial viability, she's saying herself that it's subjective.

Most of publishing is subjective. That includes likeability and commercial viability, which I see as two different things. You are, of course, free to see them as the same, but either way agents still make choices based on their own taste and how they think the ever-changing, difficult-to-predict market will swing, not based on something they know for an absolute fact because in the publishing world that's damn near impossible. That, in my opinion, makes them both subjective.

Anonymous:

Oh, you're totally correct that Agents choose to represent a title or an author on the basis of a gut-response. Editor's too.

And that response part is subjective, but trained by reward/punishment experience.

But because of those innate traits, Editors and Agents gravitate toward markets and serve readerships with similar emotional responses. You can trust the successful ones with your life.

As for vastly popular works about really repugnant characters -- as I said in previous notes on this thread, it isn't the innate quality of the fictional character that makes it marketable. It is the author's choice of techniques for presenting that character to a specific readership/viewership that creates the marketability.

Once you get it written, then you have to find the Agent who has to find the Editor who can reach the market the item will "hit" with.

It's a huge, complicated problem, and to date nobody has made a science out of it. Each step is an Art.

Commerciality is not subjective, but Art is. Art is entirely subjective.

This post reminds me of something I read in Kim Lavine's Mommy Millionaire. She was dealing with a graphic designer, but as a writer I found the situation highly relevant. She said that creative people see their work as an extension of themselves and being critical of their work is like being critical of them. Sounds like a liability--but perhaps it is the best way to write. Because if you don't risk anything, you don't gain anything.

From this post, it sounds like agents take the negative replies from the rejected authors to heart too, just in a different way.

For people on either side of the publishing divide, I don't think it ever gets easier. All you can do is work that much harder on finding something that works.

Jodi and her fiction blog.

But because of those innate traits, Editors and Agents gravitate toward markets and serve readerships with similar emotional responses. You can trust the successful ones with your life.

If something has to be trained, it's not innate. And I think saying you can trust them with your life is going really far.

You said it yourself. They only reach those with similiar interests. If Jodi Reamer is just publishing stuff exactly like Twilight, she's not going to be someone with whom I want to work because I hate Twilight. So she's not reaching me. But those who work with authors I like and represent books I like are.

Jodi thought, and was correct in thinking, that Twlight was commercial enough to sell well. It would be stupid to say that it didn't. But what about all the other agents who rejected it? Did they not see the commerciality of it? Were they wrong in thinking it wasn't commercial, if that was the basis for their rejection? Clearly. But that just proves my point that what people think will be commercial is subjective.

Reading something and deciding it's commercial is just not objective. At least, not totally. People bring their own thoughts and feelings toward everything they read, and that will influence their decisions. It can't not.

So I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. You think an individual deciding what is commercial is objective. I don't. And that's okay.

Anonymous:

Just to clarify, no I do not think that an "indiividual" deciding what is commercial is objective.

I'm trying to make the point that each Agent/Editor/Publisher/Book wholesaler/book retailer "channel" is serving a "market" - and that's a concept that maybe you and I don't have in common.

"Market" means people who want more of whatever. It's a "place" -- a group - a connected, contiguous thing like "Market Day" in a "Market Square" in a village.

Each week farmers bring produce to this Square in the city, and ranchers bring meat to that square, and weavers are over here and soap makers over there.

Today we have "supermarkets" - where all kinds of stuff is under one roof, and "flea markets" where individuals bring one-of-a-kind stuff to sell or recycle.

"Market" is a technical term these days, but it's a concept that has to be learned.

A natural born "marketer" has to be trained -- just because you have an innate talent doesn't mean you can do the job.

Likewise in Art - or acting or anything else people have talent for -- it takes both talent and training, and sometimes in addition to that it takes education (which is different from training).

If say, TWILIGHT, is rejected by one Agent because it's "hokey" it will be accepted by another because it's seminal YA.

A rejection means the Agent doesn't know how to reach the market for that product. The Agent feels that their market would regard this product as having say, an unlikeable character.

Why does the Agent feel that way? Because they've found that characters they like sell well to this market. (Most Agents can fee4 many distinct markets, but not all.)

If an Agent doesn't respond viscerally to a story, they very likely won't know a market where they can sell it.

That's what Agents do for a living -- they sort the avalanche of product we produce into streams flowing to specific markets, and they do that sort by gut-reaction.

But it's not random, or they don't stay in business long.

Once you find the market-channel for what you write, and get the training to fit your product into that market channel, you'll get what publishers call sell-through.

Even a casual comment from an Agent rejecting your work can clue you in to where your product belongs and how to fit it to market specifications -- or perhaps make you decide that your product needs to make a NEW market.

That's what's happening in the Indie publisher and E-book self-publishing marketplace right now. And it's happening fast.

Romance has been leading the pack, and it's something to behold!

New markets are opening up all around, gathering, agreeing to gather again, grow, become more voracious.

Blogger-reviewers and discussion groups are forging the way.

Find (or make) a Market, and write-write-write.

Jacqueline Lichtenberg
http://jacquelinelichtenberg.com

"But it's not random, or they don't stay in business long."

This is a non sequitur. It's perfectly possible to stay in business making awful decisions, if the demand is organic and the supply is oligopolistic.

Considering the psychological need for narrative, publishing certainly qualifies on the former criterion, and considering how reliant on "networking" the biz tends to be, there is certainly an oligopolistic element to publishing supply.

The real test of professionalism in such an environment is not in whether an agent and his/her buddy list can stay in business by offering readers what they can't comfortably do without.

The only valid test is in the business fruits of one's decisions. When a book one pushes tanks, that means something. When a book one rejects (as Harry Potter was rejected, for example) goes on to succeed, that also means something. These are professional failures. As agents are quick to point out when writers complain about commercialism, this is a business and the metrics we use to judge success and failure should reflect that.

The idea that agents should react as consumers do, by selecting what they like rather than what they can rationally judge to key into consumer needs/demands, is a complete abdication of even the pretense of professionalism.

A professional chef would never get away with only making his/her own favorite dish, so why do agents think this sort of self-oriented behavior is professionalism? A professional agent seeks products other people will buy, not products they would buy.

And, if an agent can't get beyond his or her own preferences to accurately identify what others like but they dislike ... well, good luck buying holiday presents.

E. Martin: (I've got to break this comment into several parts)

Oh, yes, I agree! I've been represented by Agents and sold to Editors who have that "beyond personal taste" level of professionalism and learned how they do it from the inside.

I've rewritten to Editorial spec from people like that, and won awards because of it.

And as you point out, as the business climate shifts, those who can't make that leap beyond totally personal taste will leave the business.

The biz is all about who you know, who's friends with whom. Friendship happens because of subjective elements in common (or contrast.)

But from the beginning writer's point of view, not knowing "who knows who" and "who is friends with whom" just taking a shot in the dark and getting back "well, I can't represent this because the character is unlikeable" -- the beginning writer who isn't inside the social loop in Manhattan has no way to parse that problem or understand what to do next.

As Anonymous pointed out, it's a very complex and complicated and obscure and mysterious and confusing situation.

At some point, you can only explain it by saying "it's subjective."

But really, it's BOTH as you say.

MORE...

...more -- There are properties of the manuscript that are objective, and properties of the manuscript that are subjective, and properties of the Agent or Editor that are objective and properties of the Agent or Editor that are subjective.

And each of those 4 categories can be teased apart, broken down, analyzed and factored into dozens of separate processes.

Being successful in this biz is very much like driving a car or Dancing With The Stars, playing Championship golf, or perhaps winning a Martial Arts Tourney. It's small-muscle coordination run by the subconscious or autonomic nervous system -- it's what you do that you don't know that you're doing.

Success is all about coordinating all those disparate elements smoothly. The economy, the mood of the various audience fragments, the price of paper in China and the taxes on warehoused copies of a book (yes, books in warehouse are taxed).

But the beginning writer hearing "this character is not likeable" simply does not KNOW what that means.

I've had hundreds of experiences that have taught me what that means, and decades in the profession knowing professionals at every level. I try to break down these "buzz word" phrases that Agents and Editors emit into a form a writer with their head and emotions in a character's story can actually use to sell their product.

To that end, I've been blogging at aliendjinnromances.blogspot.com talking basically to Science Fiction Romance and Paranormal Romance writers, but really also to any writer with a story to tell about what to do inside your head with this information.

more...

...more
What to learn, where to learn it, how to practice using it, and why bother -- all to answer the ultimate question, "Why did my manuscript get rejected?" or worse, "Why did my published Mass Market Paperback not sell?" or "Why did I get rave reviews and still not sell well enough to get another contract?"

One big lesson that came to me was sitting on a big plane, in that huge center row, surrounded by professional writers, editors, and sitting next to an Agent who was reading a manuscript she'd whimsically accepted from an unpublished stranger at a convention we were returning from.

She read a few pages, flipped to the middle, sat forward and intensely flipped to the END - looked up glassy eyed, and went, "Wow, this is going to sell big time." She was right. (It was a vampire novel before they were popular - a genuine horror-genre item, not "good vampire," and right now I don't recall the title but the title got changed anyway.)

I asked, "May I see?" She handed me a few pages. I read. I didn't see it, I didn't like the character. She explained. (it was a 5 hour flight) The people around us agreed. Discussion was all about market.

I memorized that explanation and worked on it for years. I have come to understand. I am trying to show people what I learned.

One of those lessons is in my blog post this week, http://aliendjinnromances.blogspot.com/2010/11/information-feed-tricks-and-tips-for.html

It's a huge long post and part 1 of a series. It refers back to previous posts on information feed and worldbuilding.

All of these little craft techniques are ingredients in that final response "the character grabbed me" -- "the character is really hard-boiled, tough, seedy, gritty, disgusting but I loved him!"

Romance often uses the repellent guy as the Romantic Lead, and answers the question, "What does she see in him?" I tackled that here:

http://aliendjinnromances.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-does-she-see-in-him.html

One of my co-bloggers (this is a blog of 7 well published writers) wrote an entry on this topic:

http://aliendjinnromances.blogspot.com/2010/02/irredeemable-hero-material.html

So you see, this typical Agent comment, "the character isn't likeable" is the sum and substance of what I've been discussing for about 3 years, one post a week.

I can't even approach it in these little comments, and I'm sure the readers of this blog are tired of it by now.

Jacqueline Lichtenberg
http://jacquelinelichtenberg.com

I'm trying to make the point that each Agent/Editor/Publisher/Book wholesaler/book retailer "channel" is serving a "market" - and that's a concept that maybe you and I don't have in common.

"Market" means people who want more of whatever. It's a "place" -- a group - a connected, contiguous thing like "Market Day" in a "Market Square" in a village.

Each week farmers bring produce to this Square in the city, and ranchers bring meat to that square, and weavers are over here and soap makers over there.

Today we have "supermarkets" - where all kinds of stuff is under one roof, and "flea markets" where individuals bring one-of-a-kind stuff to sell or recycle.

"Market" is a technical term these days, but it's a concept that has to be learned.

A natural born "marketer" has to be trained -- just because you have an innate talent doesn't mean you can do the job.

Likewise in Art - or acting or anything else people have talent for -- it takes both talent and training, and sometimes in addition to that it takes education (which is different from training).

If say, TWILIGHT, is rejected by one Agent because it's "hokey" it will be accepted by another because it's seminal YA.

A rejection means the Agent doesn't know how to reach the market for that product. The Agent feels that their market would regard this product as having say, an unlikeable character.

Why does the Agent feel that way? Because they've found that characters they like sell well to this market. (Most Agents can fee4 many distinct markets, but not all.)

If an Agent doesn't respond viscerally to a story, they very likely won't know a market where they can sell it.

That's what Agents do for a living -- they sort the avalanche of product we produce into streams flowing to specific markets, and they do that sort by gut-reaction.

I think we're talking about two different things. First, I don't think predicting what groups of people want to read is innately anything.

Second, no one, no matter the training or experience, can make a prediction about the market that is 100% foolproof. The way you defined markets came across condescending to me, as if I have no idea what you mean. My opinion hasn't changed regarding the subjectivity of likeability and the subjectivity of the opinion of what will reach the market.

Books have come out of nowhere to reach a particuliar market and then some. No one gets it right every time and no one can say that a character they don't like absolutely will not appeal to a target audience. All they can say is they don't THINK it will. Agents and editors alike say that themselves.

Agents, as a group, cannot objectively decide what is commercial or what will appeal to a given market because that is always, always changing. What people bought last year is no indicator of what they will be into next year. They can watch the trends, but all it takes is one success to change them in what can seem like an instant. Therefore, they have to go with their gut. And that's subjective.

Rejections don't always mean that an agent doesn't know how to reach particular market. Agents do not reject only because they don't know how to sell to certain people. They reject based on their personal feelings about the work as well. Probably more often than just because the market is not their market.

This debate is starting to feel circular and I don't think either of us is really getting what the other is trying to say. I am willing to say that you opinon is valid to you and anyone who agrees with you, but I don't agree with you and my opinion is just as valid. It seems pointless to me for the both of us to keep saying the same information in different ways if it&#

Wow. That's so crazy!

Title: Shimmering Angels
Genre: Paranormal YA
Paragraph Pitch:

When sixteen-year-old Rayna Evans spots two angels—one with midnight black wings—nearly four months after her release from the Sunflower Sanitarium, she thinks she’s going crazy again until she finds her classmate dead. The bodies begin to pile up. There is something as mysterious about these deaths as her mother’s four years ago. Ray vows to find answers and end the killings before anyone else gets hurt. But protecting her friends means not only working with the angels but also trusting them and jeopardizing the one thing she desperately needs to hold onto: her sanity.

Thank you so much Shelli for hosting and Sarah for your time!

-Lisa B.
angel28140 (at) yahoo (dot) com

Title: Emma's Heaven
Genre: Up Market Women's Fiction
Paragrah Pitch:

Megan sees her missing daughter, Emma, everywhere. The little girl standing in the supermarket, the child waiting for the swings at the playground, the girl with ice cream dripping down her face.

But it's never Emma.

Megan wonders if she lost her sanity until, at the local town fair, she sees Emma holding hands and laughing with an elderly couple. Armed with only a photo and motherly instinct, Megan questions whether she's closing in on the people who took her child, or if she's giving up everything to chase an illusion.

What a fantastic opportunity! Thanks so much!

Steena - [email protected]

Title: Hallways of Hell
Genre: YA
Paragraph Pitch:

Kylie broke the cardinal rule of high school when she gave the head cheerleader, Natalie, a black eye right before homecoming. It’s not her fault Natalie dragged her dead mother into the fight over Natalie’s boyfriend Drew, the guy Kylie has been secretly crushing on since middle school. Because of Kylie's actions Natalie is doing everything in her power to make Kylie a total outcast. Kylie accepts her fate of social damnation, but when she meets Braydon, the new guy in school who is charming, good looking and has a fighting chance at popularity, she can’t figure out why he wants to choose friendship with her over joining the ranks of the popular. Kylie will learn that Braydon may understand her situation more than she ever thought possible and it all has to do with the dark secret he’s been keeping from her.

Thanks for a great contest.
~Theresa
(Tmpmarkmajor(at)aol(dot)com

Title: THE GHOST SEER
Genre: YA Paranormal Romance
Paragraph pitch:

Sixteen-year-old Kayley Cartwright sees ghosts -- she's a Seer -- but it's no big deal because ghosts are harmless. When Kayley meets gorgeous, sweet Evan with his to-die-for British accent, she develops a huge crush on him and is thrilled that the attraction is mutual. Then Kayley learns of a new, mutant strain of ghosts who are intent on killing her for some, unknown reason and, even scarier, mutant ghosts appear to be living to Seers. Kayley revels in the interest gorgeous Evan shows her but grows suspicious when he starts acting strangely. Could Evan be a mutant ghost out to kill her?


Thank you, Shelli and Sarah!

-Tessa
tessadevan at hotmail dot com

Into
YA Fantasy

To escape death at the hands of a trusted orphanage employee, 17-year-old Faith runs headfirst into another world. Led by and insane, beautiful creature named Uri, they trek through the new land that is home to flesh-eating lake monsters, gnarled forest demon children, and a city full of faceless human replicas. But when Uri's odd nature turns homicidal, Faith must fight for both her life and her unborn child's.

Thank you both!

ce.murphy at yahoo dot com

Title: FLUX
Genre: YA Paranormal
Paragraph Pitch:

The war to decide the fate of mankind has begun; the humans just don’t know it yet. Then again, neither do the three supernatural orphans whose actions will decide the outcome of the war.

Tired of being shunned by his own, Gabe forsakes angelic law to inform Hex that she’s a fairy—not a human orphan. And when Gabe’s continued naïve actions put Hex back in sites of the human who has already tried to kill her once, Hex must choose between putting her faith in an angel or heeding the counsel of her personal demon, Luce, to stay alive another day—not to mention fight in some supernatural war.

author.pratt at gmail dot com

Thank you!

Title: FLIGHT
Genre: literary fiction/magic realism

When Maria Black experiences intense changes, she grows sick and feverish until she bursts into flames. From the fire that consumes her, a bird rises, takes flight, and returns to human form. Maria has suppressed burning for years but the quiet life she has built is interrupted when she runs—quite literally—into the famous musician Sam Montgomery and learns that they have been dreaming about each other. As they get to know each other, only Sam is willing to question the meaning behind their dreams; Maria is not interested in posing questions that don’t have answers. When Sam and Maria fall in love, she is forced to decide between her normal life with her husband and a seemingly predestined love that reawakens questions about meaning and why she burns.

writermorris(at)gmail(dot)com

Half-truth
YA paranormal

Rose Woodman couldn't care less about the fate of the Fae. After all, one of the them enchanted and abandoned her mother to the fatal birthing of his unusual child. Rose has no intention of following in those footsteps. That's why she learned to shoot so well. So why can't she forget the eyes of the young man who watches her from the shadows or his claim that the future of Faerie lies in her mixed-blood?

susan.b.james(at)sbcglobal(dot)net

blog-www.elfmama/livejournal.com

The Magic Withheld
urban fantasy

Justus Aubre is what the Imperium hates, a mage with unrestrained power. The secret guild of wizards wants him leashed. He wants them to butt out of his life so he can run his bar and live in obscurity among the humans. Then Sable interrupts his safe life and the Imperium isn’t far behind her.

beccoff(at)nwmo(dot)net

http://spiritcalled.blogspot.com/

Good contest :) Thanks for the opportunity.

Title: Mermaid in the Summer of Burning Water
Genre: YA Fantasy

In the dead of night, a deepwater oil rig explodes – sky bursts into continuous flame, stars are obliterated from view and military personnel are sent in to keep reporters and locals away. Three teenagers – Shrimp, Raine and Noah – sneak onto the beach one night, discover an unconscious mermaid lying facedown in the sand and try to roll her over. As the mixture of oil, dispersant and the natural coating on her scales soaks into their fingertips, they experience a heightening of all their senses. Over the next few months, they see and hear things they never noticed before, symptoms of deeply buried family secrets, including the accidental death of a twin. When the mermaid awakens, she offers the teenagers a chance to heal their families and bring the oil company to justice.

Email: [email protected]

Thank you so much, Shelli and Sarah, for this awesome contest!

- Marilyn Peake
Marilyn Peake

Title: Bittersweet Melody
Genre: YA Paranormal Romance
Pitch: When you’re a muse who isn’t permitted to inspire, life pretty much sucks—especially for a restless muse like Melody. After having her inspiration license revoked for a hundred years for reckless behavior, Melody is finally released from house arrest and put on probation. When her inspiration officer assigns her to help a pair of brothers, Melody is grateful to finally be working a case again, but she doesn’t count on both brothers falling in love with her. Love between muses and humans is forbidden, so when Melody starts to reciprocate feelings for one of the lovelorn brothers, she must decide: lose the one she loves to keep her muse status or give in to her feelings and give up her immortality.

[email protected]

Thank you Shelli and Sarah! :D

The Shadow of Moonlight
YA Paranormal


Lexy’s not the type of girl to stand by and watch a fight—after all she’s been training all of her life to fight the infected. In her world there are two simple rules 1. Zombies are bad. 2. Werewolves are worse. But Lexy has to choose between following what her family has taught her or following Kaden, a werewolf, for a chance to save Jason the boy—I mean zombie of her dreams.

miriam.caldwell (at) gmail.com

Title: Unraveled
Genre: YA Mystery
Paragraph Pitch:

All sixteen year old math prodigy, Autumn, wants to do is read about serial killers and dream about becoming an FBI agent. When her older sister is murdered, she begins her own investigation using the techniques and forensics she’s read about. When the evidence points towards someone she knows, Autumn offers herself up as bait sets a dangerous trap to obtain his confession for her sister’s murder.

Thanks for a great contest,

Susan
bradley_susan (at) yahoo (dot) com

Title: The Heartbreak Boys

Genre: YA Contemporary

Paragraph Pitch:

As a teen, most people aren't thinking about settling down and having a family. Neither was Eoghan until he moved in with Alex and his son Ryan. Now the attraction between Eoghan and Alex have them changing their idea of love. But when Eoghan's future comes calling and Alex can't let go of the past, both boys find their lives might not match up as well as they thought.

Email: Lauren51990 AT aol DOT com

Title: Baby Love
Genre: YA Horror
Paragraph Pitch:

"Outdoor girl" Maxine is vacationing with her family at the Carribean island of Sweet Ends when a harpy joins the party...and starts snacking on guests and locals alike. Unborn children are supposed to be a harpy's greatest craving, which is bad news since her mom's pregnant, her brother is four, and she isn't quite eighteen. With the help of Lucinda, a cheeky resort housekeeper, and Raile, a surly woodsman, Maxine hunts the harpy down before they become its next meal.

mariantpinera(@)gmail.com

Thanks for this!   

Title: Bittersweet
Genre: YA
Paragraph Pitch:

Seventeen year old Riley always took her social status for granted until an affair with her married art teacher ruined it all. Now, the whole school has turned on her - including her previous best friends - and her parents won't even look her in the eye. And then Theo shows up, so determined to save her from her path of self destruction and hard front. Except his need to save her comes from a deep, dark secret that could have serious consequences for them both.

Thanks for this!

chanelle(@)chanellegray(.)com

title of book: The Last Onset
genre: YA dystopia

paragraph pitch:
This time, Armageddon was planned. Mykelle, a cynical 16-year-old computer prodigy, is elected to survive. But Mykelle isn't happy to just leave everything behind — including her kid sister — so she hacks into the system so her sister can go with her.

And when Mykelle discovers that the destruction — from the wars to the natural disasters — is really a plot for eugenics planned by the government leaders, she decides to take action . . . before they wipe out the targeted 95% of the earths' population.

info:
chersti.nieveen [at] gmail [dot] com
http://cherstinieveen.wordpress.com

Hey thanks for hosting the contest Shelli, and for judging Sarah! This is such a great opportunity :-)

Awesome contest! The following pitch is for my YA fantasy novel, The Cure.


Seventeen-year-old William is Infected, which means when he dies he'll be reanimated into a flesh-eating monster. Tessa, the girl he loves, is Clean, and as the Infection is spread through blood and saliva, the two of them don't have much of a future together. When Will hears rumors of a cure, he leaves his protected community in search of it. And maybe he'll find it, if he can survive the journey through a post-apocalyptic countryside full of monsters.

kat-tastic(at)live(dot)com

I wasn't going to enter but why not.... :)

MERCY
YA magical realism

Eighteen-year-old Camilla Jay can rewind up to twenty-four hours to change events and she remembers everything. A tragedy like the death of her twin sister Madelyn shouldn’t be possible, yet Madelyn drowns - twice. Five months later, she finds notes hinting Madelyn might have known what would happen, leading Camilla on a quest to collect whatever her sister might have left her. In doing so, she must reconsider everything that has led her here and confront her actions at the accident, both times, if she’s to understand her gift, her relationship with Madelyn, and herself.

jessica @ jessicatudor.com

Sendek
Science Fantasy

In a world that tried to crush all forms of magic in favor of science, astronomer Talia Shannon is trapped. Her prophetic nightmares point to an approaching invasion, but to warn the military would expose her magical nature. If anyone learned she could heal herself, every scientist on the planet would want a piece of her.

Talia must learn to trust the magic coursing through her veins if she wants to survive the invasion and find a way to save her world. When science fails to protect her way of life, magic becomes the only hope.

[email protected]

Title: Vestige
Genre: suspense/magical realism

Pitch paragraph:

Tess Garibaldi’s past collides with the present when she discovers she’s a Vestige – a reincarnated soul sent to protect civilizations. Haunted by the failure in a past life to save her Incan lover and his people, flight attendant Tess sets out to destroy the Trinity Necklace, an Incan artifact that causes death by incurable disease. To end the destructive powers of the relic forever, Tess must find and stop the enemy from her past and present and reunite with her reincarnated Incan lover. With a handsome anthropologist and dodgy ex-husband as the only candidates for mate or foe, Tess must choose wisely, or else she will lose her lover again – and mankind could perish.

Email: alli_sinclair (at) yahoo.com

Thank you for this opportunity!

Title: Pulse
Genre: Urban Fantasy
Pitch: Lara leaves her perfect world to discover the dark secrets of the modern world that she was stolen from as a baby. Once here, she’s arrested as a suspected kidnapper and falls in love with the FBI agent assigned to interrogate her. In the end, she must choose between an immortal, single existence and a mortal life with a man who’s only too human.

Thanks for the fun contest!
kellybryson02(at)hotmail(dot)com

Title: The Surface of the Deep
Genre: YA Fantasy
Paragraph pitch:

Ares is Adonia’s most feared group of rebels; the king’s bane and the ones with the best chance to end his corrupt reign. But even the famed resistance is being crushed, and its final hope rests with a set of twins—infants who possess the rare power to kill with their minds. Eighteen years later, Valerian and Astra, hidden away in our world as children, have no knowledge of Adonia or their deadly powers. When Ares' leader crashes into their lives, they are dragged back home and forced to learn how to use their powers, charged with killing the king. All they want are answers, but in Adonia, the wrong questions can prove deadly—Ares is just as treacherous as the king, and revealing their secrets—or failing their mission—will label Valerian and Astra as traitors, for which the only punishment is death.

Email: jenniferwhite13 (at) ymail (dot) com

Title: Sector 3

Genre: YA Science Fiction/Mystery

Fourteen-year-old Jamie Drafkin, son of the millionaire father, turns heads when he walks down the halls of Third Sector High—because his father just committed suicide. Additionally (as if that alone isn’t enough to make him puke), his sister’s just run away, leaving him in charge of his disintegrating mother and brothers. It’s not until he’s at the breaking point, ready to flee—or do worse—himself, that he runs into a mysterious gothic teen named Badger who claims Jamie’s dad was actually murdered and hauled out of Sector 3—which, Jamie knows, can’t be true, because ages ago a former United States was split into four impenetrable sectors due to a horrific plague. Reluctant but curious, Jamie’s whisked onto a journey in the blink of an eye to locate his dad’s killer, Badger at his side. But it’s only after Badger goes missing that Jamie finally realizes there’s only one option at this stage in the game if he wants to find the killer, Badger, and his dad: break out of Sector 3.

Email: [email protected]

Title: The Practice of Wearing Skin
Genre: YA
Paragraph pitch:

Sixteen-year-old epic loner Sofia knows she has some lingering issues from being abandoned by her mom a year ago. So when Theo, a total weirdo who calls himself a grim reaper, approaches her and says she has thirty days until she dies, well that’s just freaking awesome. At least there’s one other person in the world that needs therapy more than she does.

Then near the end of her thirty days, Sofia uncovers evidence that her mom might never have abandoned her at all, but that she’s a grim reaper too. Sofia takes the chance to reconcile with her mom and join Theo, whose British accent, grey eyes, and perfect boy jeans are incentive enough to continue “living” with him as a reaper too, but when she makes it to the afterlife, Sofia learns the heartbreaking reason why her mom hasn’t tried to contact her in the last year.

Email: camarshallwrites AT gmail DOT com

Title: The Sober Coach
Genre: YA Contemporary

Seventeen-year-old Curtis isn’t some strung-out Hollywood actor; he’s a high school junior who happens to be under a lot of pressure to be perfect. Can anyone really blame him for letting off a little steam every once in a while to party with his friends?

His father certainly can, which is why he hires Tess, the resident prude, to be Curtis’s sober coach. Even though Tess’s upbringing makes her the ideal candidate for the job, she’s not exactly thrilled at babysitting the arrogant man-child.

Both of them know she’s out to change him, but Curtis soon realizes two can play that game: let the battle between virtue and vice begin.

nkrell(at)hotmail(dot)com

Thanks so much for hosting this, Shelli and thanks also to Sarah for her time!

Title: Where The Stones Speak
Genre: YA Historical Fantasy

Long ago, when pepper was more treasured than gold, there existed women of renowned talents.

Banished by those fearful to harbor one so marked with magick, sixteen-year old Iona, clan ruler on The Isle of Virgins, wields a javelin and sword to protect her refuge and ensure the existence of her kind. There she has received wise and ancient tutelage from those who wish to foster her talents for the good of mankind. But when she discovers she is a sibyl of ancient lineage, she must journey to find her sacred circle of stones and proclaim her oracles to the multitudes— But first she must evade the many who seek to silence the ancient world’s last free sibyl.

angelagoughnour at gmail.com

Thanks for this great opportunity guys!!

Title: BATTLE RING SEVEN
Genre: YA contemporary/coming-of-age

Paragraph Pitch:

Role-playing his life as a dark elf, 14-year-old Troy McAllister encounters daily battles with zombies and dragons, giants and ogres. While these foes and obstacles are chillingly real, the labels are all in his head. As he struggles to level up in the Battle Ring realm, he must forge alliances and develop courage while facing the Green Ogre (the school bully), evil zombies (a pack of teens from his trailer park), and pot-pushing lab partners. Trust issues abound for Dark Troy after he is abandoned by his mother, aka the Winged Blue Witch, and he must decide whether the mysterious girl in the library is an enchantress of benevolence--or one of evil.

The ultimate success of his future life depends upon it.

email: artzicarol [at] gmail [dot] com

Title: Across Two Universes
Genre: Science Fiction

Paragraph Pitch

Paul Harrison just lost his mom, discovered he’s the clone of a TwenCen rock star named Sean Quinn, and realized his Sean-obsessed great-uncle may have had his mom killed to gain control of him. Inspired by Hamlet, Paul plans to make his great-uncle confess by impersonating Sean’s angry ghost. To prepare for the role, he travels to another universe to meet Sean, then decides he must save Sean from being murdered himself. But saving Sean may cause the wormhole connecting the universes to collapse—unless Paul can master a quantum talent without losing his mind.

e-mail: [email protected]

Thanks to both of you for hosting/judging this contest!

Title: WITCH-ed
Genre: Paranormal Romance
Pitch:

After finding a dying woman in an alley, Becca's life was turned upside down in an instant. She now had unspeakable powers, a new life and love, and a psychotic killer out to steal her powers. Along with a group of local witches, Becca plays a magical game of cat and mouse as she searches for the killers identity.Becca soon realizes that we all have a destiny set forth for us, but it is uo to us to choose the path that leads to it.

Thanks.
[email protected]

Title: Drowning
Genre: YA urban fantasy
One Paragraph Pitch:

Only Elly knows her twin sister didn't drown in that crowded harbor like everyone thinks. She actually fell through a gate into a war-torn city in another world. It's not like Elly can tell anyone that, though, or she'll also have to tell them that she can read her sister's mind. When Elly decides to follow her sister's clues into the dark city, she finds herself at the heart of the battle, with one side claiming she is the rightful heir to the crown and the other side supposedly wanting her dead. Unsure of who she can trust, Elly must find her sister and get her home alive.

Thanks so much for this opportunity!

acasile (at) gmail (dot) com

Kwizera Means Hope
YA

Rwandan teenager Cecile Kwizera survived four years of war, one hundred days of genocide and the death of her father in a refugee camp, and now she must overcome the guilt of having survived.
After watching her Tutsi classmates die and losing her father, nightmares and guilt plague Cecile. Unable to go back to school, she picks tea leaves with her mother all day. Despite the rumors, she refuses to believe her missing older brother joined the militias. Cecile dreams of a better life for herself and her younger siblings.

Thanks so much, Shelli and Sarah, for the opportunity.
Vicki Tremper
www.vbtremper.wordpress.com

Ack! I left my blog address instead of email.

Kwizera Means Hope goes with vtremp (at) yahoo (dot) com.

Sorry and thanks!

Hi Shelli! My story isn't right for Sarah, but she sounds like an awesome agent! You always have the neatest things going on here at your blog!

Title: Forever More
Genre: YA paranormal

Sixteen-year-old Victoria Robinson has two options: death or imprisonment.

Victoria has just found out that a. her family is cursed, and b. her immediate future involves either death or a life-time imprisonment at her Grandma’s creepy house.

If being part of the curse isn’t bad enough, Victoria has to contend with the knowledge that whatever fate befalls her, the other will go to her cousin, Elspeth.

But Victoria doesn’t take crap from anyone, least of all a four-hundred-year-old curse.

jaded747[AT]gmail[DOT]com

Thanks for the awesome chance!

"Waiting for April"
Paranormal romance

Twenty-one-year-old college student, April Fletcher, is unaware that she is living her fifteenth life.
April doesn’t know that she has never before survived to see her twenty-second birthday, nor does she realise that Scott Parker, her best friend, is actually her soul mate. Sadly, April is also oblivious to the fact that whenever she dies, fate renders Scott Parker immortal until she returns to him and confesses her love.
Scott Parker knows.
Unfortunately, what Scott Parker doesn’t know is that there is someone else out there whose immortality is dependent on the death of April Fletcher, and that person is dead set on living forever.

Thanks!

Jaime

lawrence(dot)jaime(at)gmail(dot)com

Title: Pieces of Moon
Genre: YA Magic Realism

A summer in Belize becomes a race against time for Time. When Tess travels back to fifteenth-century Maya, she uncovers her part in the ancient End-of-Time prophecy. Thrust into a battle between two Mayan gods, it is up to Tess to change history. But there is one person standing in her way--Eron, the Spanish soldier who is sad, brooding, and stubborn but always wonderful. And who she will love for all Time.

jessicaloliveros (at) gmail (dot) com

Thanks for holding another fun opportunity like this.

Title: Tattle Tell
Genre: YA Science Fiction

Pitch: Ephram Gray has been identified as a mutant since birth. Which wouldn't be so bad if the government would just leave him alone. Things get worse when a friend shows signs of mutation, forcing him to tattle. Discovering the truth behind the identification process and the men in suits leaves Ephram with a decision. Either risk telling on another friend or accept the life of a loser tattle tale.

Email: [email protected]

Wow, lots of characters named Tess!! :)

I know, Lisa! I noticed that as I read through. I think I'm the fourth or fifth Tess.

Title: High Hopes
Genre: Contemporary YA

Paragraph Pitch:

HIGH HOPES is a modern retelling of Jane Austen’s “Northanger Abbey,” but instead of going to Bath, eighteen-year-old Katie Moreland takes a trip to Florida for Spring Break week. There, she meets Hal Tilney, who quickly wins her over with his charm and wit, and who also happens to live in one of the most haunted houses in America – the home where the events of “The Amityville Horror” took place. When Katie is invited to visit for the weekend, her horror-obsessed brain goes into overdrive and she imagines ghosts and ghouls around every corner. Hal tries to explain to her that all the sinister stories about the house are just rumors, but Katie is convinced that the Amityville home is hiding a dark secret. Katie tries to find the source of her supernatural suspicions, but doesn’t know she also runs the risk of something truly scary – losing the guy she loves.

Email: lisagalek at gmail dot com

Title: Waking the Binding Tree
Genre: YA Fiction

Elliana thought the stories her abuela told her were just family legends. But when her clumsy behavior lands her in alternative school, obsessive-compulsive Jillian and mind-reading wannabe Javier help her delve into her own untapped power. While on a trip to Mexico to visit her grandmother, Elliana accidently unleashes the spirit of an ancient ancestor, banished inside the binding tree, who has been waiting to return to power for over four hundred years. As the ghost gains strength by stealing the memories of her loved ones, it’s a race between deception that’s centuries in the making and awkward teenage self-discovery. Can Elliana realize her own strength before she loses her family- and their history- forever?

jlhendricks924 at yahoo dot come

I am learning so much from both blogs! Thanks so much!

Title: From The Other Side
Genre: YA Horror
Email: rachael[dot]harrie[at]gmail[dot]com

For misfit Verity Ronson, being brutally murdered in a dark magick ceremony is only the beginning of her problems. As a ghost, Verity finds herself filled with uncontrollable rages and an unquenchable desire for vengeance against the teens who killed her---including the boy she once loved.

Struggling to harness her unpredictable and deadly new powers, Verity haunts and possesses her murderers, determined to make their lives---and deaths---as painful as possible. But as her world becomes darker and more drenched in blood, Verity begins to lose herself. And she soon realizes that, once you’ve started killing, it can be very hard to stop.

LOVE your pitch contests Shelli!!! Such a fantastic opportunity :)

In the Shadow of Vesuvius.
YA Historical Fiction


Vesuvius awakens. To save the infant she cares for, fifteen-year-old Mira must escape her master, and the slave ordered to shadow her, or share Herculaneum's fate.

Title: LOCK 19
Genre: YA Fiction
Pitch:

When Tabby's brother is killed by a car bomb that incinerates her father's genetics lab, she refuses to believe he is part of the terrorist group blamed for the explosion-- until she finds his confession. Following a trail of clues he left behind, she uncovers a dark family secret, a gang of genetic outcasts with magnetic powers and an obscure code only she can crack. As her brother's mystery unravels, Tabby realizes the only way to make his sacrifice matter is to take up his cause and destroy her father's legacy. Even if doing so costs her her life.


Email: sabrina.wolford(at)gmail(dot)com

Title: Colors Like Memories
Genre: YA Paranormal
Pitch:
Julia has a secret: she killed the guy she loved. It was an accident—sort of. Julia is a Sary, the soul of a child who died before birth, assigned to help those on the verge of ending their lives; she must save Marcy, or leave the Sary. When Marcy pieces together the truth about who her best friend really is, it shatters their friendship and any chance Julia had of helping her. The only way Julia can fix everything is by facing her past, but that’s going to require risking her role with the Sary, and endangering Marcy’s life.

Email: mrs.which (@) gmail.com

Thanks for holding this contest!

Title: The Spirit-Hunters
Genre: YA Steampunk

Pitch:

When a decomposing body delivers a ransom note for Eleanor's brother, she resolves to do anything to get him back. To face the armies of dead that have him, she joins forces with a three-man spirit-hunting team. Now Eleanor has to kick undead butt and deal with her growing attraction to the team's inventor, an exasperating but gorgeous ex-con. From the steampunk lab of the Spirit-Hunters to the emptied cemeteries of Philadelphia, Eleanor must follow the clues – and the bodies – to find her brother and stop the Dead before it's too late.

Email: stowersd (at) gmail (dot) com

Just thought I'd check in and am so impressed by these pitches! (Way to make it easy for me, writers...)

Title: LOOKING GLASS HOUSE
Genre: YA Contemporary

When you’re trapped inside the looking glass, the only way to get where you're going is to face the thing you most want to escape.

Alice Crawford appears from the outside to be a privileged sixteen-year-old, but she believes Seth will turn away when he sees inside her world, where Mum self-medicates bipolar disorder with gin and Dad turned his back years ago. Ally tries to escape the way her sister does - with pills, alcohol and the touch of a stranger. She risks losing Seth because of her own behavior, not her mother’s. When Ally realizes she must confront her parents’ world instead of running from it, she’ll find love, life and freedom from her LOOKING GLASS HOUSE.

Email: underthecoverswriter at gmail dot com

Title: THE GHOST WRITER
Genre: YA Ghost Story
Email: marcykate (at) gmail (dot) com

Seventeen-year-old Tessa James can’t even watch Casper the Friendly Ghost without nightmares, so when letters written in a French appear on her nightstand she does her damnedest to ignore the implications.

Soon Tessa realizes the letters are pieces of a diary, and the tale of Ava Dubois, a runaway millgirl turned rising starlet, begins to unravel. The Castle Theatre, her employer and once Ava's, is about to produce Hamlet, the very play canceled by Ava’s untimely death in 1935. A bizarre series of accidents plague the theatre staff, while the steady stream of letters and rumors of ghosts force Tessa into a dangerous game. She wants no part, but with the body count piling up—in the past and present—she must checkmate her ghosts and Ava's if she wants to live long enough to have a future.

Title: You Were Forever
Genre: Literary Fiction

From the Civil War when New York City’s fire department was still a volunteer force through September 11th and its aftermath, You Were Forever moves through time to tell the stories of women and girls whose lives are intertwined with the FDNY—the mothers, wives, mistresses, sisters and daughters of New York City firefighters.

Among them are eight-year-old Katie Doyle of Long Island who loses her adoptive father, a lawyer, on September 11th and her birth mother, Maggie O’Reilly, the daughter of a Brooklyn fireman killed in the line of duty in 1982 who never tells her boyfriend, also from a fire-family and waiting impatiently to join the FDNY himself, that he is a father. Katie’s great-grandmother, Annie-Rose, must stand by as her husband begins an affair with the widow of another fireman—Matty, who works at the firehouse as a matron (housekeeper) to support her children, customary in the days before the city offered benefits to fire widows. And Bridie Earley, a famine immigrant from Ireland working as a maid, who falls in love with the ghost of Civil War solider, a fireman who went to war as a paid substitute for her employer.

In the years that follow September 11th, it will be Katie’s search for her birth parents that ties the narratives in You Were Forever together.

Email: [email protected]

Title: LOCK 19
Genre: YA Fiction
Pitch:

When Tabby's brother is killed by a car bomb that incinerates her father's genetics lab, she refuses to believe he is a part of the terrorist group blamed for the explosion-- until she finds his confession. Heartbroken and desperate for answers, she follows a trail of clues he left behind, uncovering a dark family secret, a gang of genetic outcasts with magnetic powers and an obscure code only she can crack. As her brother's mystery unravels, Tabby comes to understand his sacrifice and realizes the only way to make his life matter is to take up his cause and destroy her father's legacy. Even if doing so may cost her her life.


Email: sabrina.wolford(at)gmail(dot)com

Title: Slipperage
Genre: YA science fiction
Paragraph Pitch:

The young king Zuku of the planet Mardyth doesn’t want to get married, and he especially doesn’t want to marry any of the daughters of his sworn enemy, Ali Alam Alem, no matter what his advisors say. But when Ali Alam Alem’s twelve oldest daughters, along with their entire space ship, keep disappearing only to return with tales of dancing and demon princes, Zuku can’t resist looking into the matter. After all, he is better at talking to machines than he is at talking to girls. The more he researches, the more involved he gets and now Zuku must figure out how to save the princess he doesn’t want to admit to loving before he loses her forever.

Email: jeni.any.dots (at) gmail (dot) com

Title: DESTINED
Genre: YA retelling (Cupid & Psyche)
Paragraph pitch:

Sadie's not just the most beautiful girl in ancient Greece, she's also Cupid's super-secret love interest. But Cupid can only keep his identity secret by visiting Sadie at night, veiled in darkness. Somehow, Sadie has to learn to love a god she will never see after being told in a prophecy that he's a monster. When Sadie finally gives into her fears, and takes a peak at his face, she loses Cupid's immortal love. As Sadie journeys alone through ancient Greece to reclaim Cupid's heart, she finds the strength to take on the gods and challenges the ancient adage: you cannot escape what is destined.

Title: Unseen Beauty
Genre: YA Fantasy
Paragraph Pitch:

Claudette must make the beautiful Seline fall in love with Beast before the castle is destroyed. Unfortunately Claudette is invisible, and no one from outside of the castle, including Seline, can hear her either. Such circumstances make encouraging Seline's romance with the arrogant Beast difficult enough, but then Claudette has to fall in love with Beast herself. Could an impertinent parlor maid's love be good enough to break the spell on the enchanted prince?

amity (dot) irene (at) gmail (dot) com

Title: Alternate
Genre: YA Sci-Fi
Pitch:
Sixteen year old Sara Morgan is drawn into a war between parallel universes when she meets Elira Black, an alternate version of herself from another dimension. Elira is the chosen one, a leader of the resistance trying to stop an empire from conquering all the worlds of the multiverse. The two girls share the same DNA, but couldn't be more different - Sara is no hero and has spent her entire life running away from her problems, while Elira has trained for her destiny since birth. But when the chosen one dies and Sara discovers Earth is the empire's next target, she must pretend to be Elira Black and find a way to make the prophecy come true to save everyone she loves.


My email is ebriggs23 at gmail.com. Thanks for this great contest!

Title: Unlives of the Undead
Genre: YA Paranormal
Pitch:

George, a dim-witted zombie, is on Unlives of the Undead, a reality show too dull for viewers to care about. That changes when one of the cast members, a snarky vampire, gets a stake through her heart. The show becomes must-see TV as audiences follow the hunt for the slayer. Unfortunately for George, all the evidence points to him. To avoid spending the rest of his unlife in jail, George must use all the power in his cognitively-challenged zombie brain to elude overzealous detectives, swirly-obsessed jocks, and vengeful vampires long enough to solve the crime and figure out who framed him.

Email: dustin.warren(at)nc.rr.com

Title of the book: The Lion Awakens
Genre: YA
Paragraph pitch:
Annie Lange thought her mom died when she was four. David McClure thought his dad died when he was four. Both are dead wrong. Their parents live in a parallel universe ruled by a tyrant hell-bent on taking over Annie and David’s world because his is dying. It’s up to teens to stop him and bring their parents home.
Email: [email protected]

Title: Edge of the Falls
Genre: YA Dystopian

Sabah has lived her whole life Outside the Commission controlled City. She likes it that way--giving away all choice and freedom is too steep a price to pay for safety. But when she is saved by a ban-wolf, the rejected genetic experiments of the Commission, she begins to question everything she knows. Arjun is wild and dangerous and honest in a way the her childhood friend, Berg, never has been. And despite the fur and claws, she can't help the attraction she feels for him.
Faced with the oppurtunity to live withing the safety of the City, under the protection of the Commission, Sabah must decide: does she love a monster? Is safety worth the sacrifice of choice?


Email: [email protected]

Thanks so much for the oppurtunity!!

Title: Moonstone
Genre: YA paranormal romance
Pitch:
Seventeen-year-old Emily Shaw never thought her dream guy would actually be the guy from her dreams. But prophetic visions and her burgeoning love life are the least of her problems when she stumbles upon family secrets that may have lead to her mother's death nearly a decade earlier. Now she must decide whether unraveling the mystery of her mother's past is worth losing everything - including her life.
Email: [email protected]

Thanks!!

Title: Time Warden
YA Dystopian


Kidnapped and brainwashed into believing that he time-traveled to the year 1692, a rebellious teen is taken in by a secluded village of time-traveling misfits and their offspring. Sixteen-year-old Ryan adapts well to his new life and falls in love with the founder’s granddaughter. When Ryan discovers that the town is nothing more than an elaborate modern-day deception, he struggles with how the truth will affect his girlfriend and makes plans to escape. Too bad no one has made it out of Stevenstown alive.

ChristyEvers (at) att (dot) net

This one applies to Daddy: A reservation is in order for Mother’s Day. As cute as you may think it is that the kids “made” me breakfast, it isn’t. I’d rather skip the watery coffee with grounds floating in it, the half-baked waffle with the runny inside and the strawberries with dog hair stuck to them. Oh yeah, and if I’m drinking OJ out of a champagne flute, it better have some bubbly in it! No breakfast in bed. I’ll get up, put on some real grown-up clothes, do my hair and make-up and feel like a human being. Three words: Mother’s Day Brunch!

Especially for someone like you who cooks, cooks, and cooks….real food.

Amen and Amen! LOL!!!! Happy Mother’s Day weekend to Mom’s everywhere…

You can ride the ‘L’ by yourself when I’m dead.

Now that’s the Marie we know and love.

Any dishes (or countertops) dirtied during this weekend will be washed and put away the same day they are dirtied… Mom will have NO part in this!! (aside from the dirtying, if she chooses)

So I guess you’re trying to tell us that kids never grow out of this bad habit, no matter how hard we try

The only bottom I’m wiping this weekend is my own.

The Chinese buffet is your favorite restaurant, NOT mine.

Yes, I am smarter than a fifth grader. I’m also smarter than a preschooler, first grader and third grader. I may not be smarter than my husband, but just for the weekend pretend.

Just keep adding but the first one stopped me in my tracks

Me, too. I’m gonna use that line.

I think the questioner is referring to Bilbo Baggins in "The Hobbitt" right? It really DOES work in that book!

If a lyric summed up everything so perfectly, for say a preface or something, is it really hard/impossible to get rights? Would agents even attempt or just give up and advise to write something else?

Question: the TITLES of songs aren't copyrighted, correct? So one could have a character humming I Want To Know What Love Is and no one would have to cut Foreigner a royalty check...although the author might have to apologize to the readership. :-)

(This is a test. This is only a test. No actual songs were hummed during the writing of this comment.)

I added song lyrics to my recent release, Stirring Up Strife. Because the book's characters take a Bible study together, I wanted one of them to pen praise songs. For this book, it worked, so I think Jessica's advice on following your gut is sound. Add the poems or the songs if they're our own and add another's work if you're certain the copyrights can be secured. For an example of a modern writer who does this, check out Louise Penny. Her books are filled with poetry and she's acquired the permission to reprint all the poems. Good luck!

Good point about the copyright issue. I had included parts of lyrics to an Aerosmith song in my story because they were creepy-- and perfect. The mc experiences a flashback because of the song. But after I found out how difficult and expensive it would be to get permission to use them, I wrote my own lyrics instead (after studying numerous books on songwriting). My lyrics are way creepier than the ones from the Aerosmith song and worked even better. Plus, I was able to link it to part of my story's concept. What more could I want? :D

I know as a reader, it generally drives me crazy when i have to read the lyrics to a song. Unless i can hear the music, i just don't want to deal with it. Even with some of my favorite authors.
But that's just me. It won't make me put down the book

I think as a reader it depends so much on the HOW and WHY. I think Bilbo's songs show some character and are fun, and could be cut to about 10% of the length that they're used.

I can see though, a special song or poem that binds a couple, or makes somebody rethink something or remember something. Needs to be relevant to the story though, and not just filler or fluff, or if it is about character, keep it to a low volume.

*waits for answer on song title* (I have a couple mentions too... only by title)

I started reading a book a while ago and in the first two chapters alone, the main character was listening to a U2 song, or whatever. I found the repeated references to be annoying and it really dated the book. In the end it took me out of the story so much that I didn't finish it. You have to be really careful when referencing music and artists...but used properly it can enhance a character. That's just my opinion though :-)

Philangelus, you can mention the title of songs without fear of copyright violation.

You can even reuse a title for your own song. There are at least two different songs entitled "Time after Time," for example.

I read a lot of Mercedes Lackey and the way she handled it seems good to me. She writes her own songs, but doesn't include the lyrics. She just mentions that the character sings _______ song and includes the lyrics in an appendix for anyone who wants to know what it was.

The lyrical poems and songs worked well in the Lord of the Rings, though there were times I thought Tolkien could have skipped these parts and the books wouldn't have lost anything. Following Lord of the Rings -- at least in the fantasy genre -- many authors have employed similar techniques in their writing. Personally, I've seen it so much in fantasy that I've grown tired of seeing it. I'm not sure about genres, as I mostly tend to read historical fiction and fantasy. You don't get a lot of sing-song pieces in historical fiction. My preference is to not have any songs like this.

My book has a song in it...my MC's ex is a musician and it is a song he sings at a show....it's about her so it's meaningful to the story....shows his feelings for her. I think if a song is there, it has to have a purpose.

I had a scene in this same book where the MC turns on her radio and dances around singing "Hey Mickey". I had a couple lines of the song but my editor suggested I take them out. In that scene it really didn't change anything...instead of saying "I belted out "Oh Mickey you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind..." I changed it to "I belted out the lyrics to my favorite 80's song as I danced around the room."

Similar Question-

The characters in my current WIP love the movies. There are several references to characters, titles, but no direct quotes at least once in nearly every chapter. One collects action figures and the other creates costumes inspired by their favorite movies.

Anyone, preferably also the Bookends ladies if they have time, know the 'rules' on something like that?

No issues with using song titles if used in the correct context like an iPod,TV,or car. I either know them of I don't. If I know the song, it does most times add to the experience. Using lyrics and quotes of songs, I find really annoying, especially before the start of the chapter.

On a similar note, I read a lot of paranormals which often include witchcraft, and I absolutely hate it when the authors reproduce long, involved spells that appear to be included merely to showcase their knowledge of witchcraft--when I recently did a novella for an anthology with a heroine who is a witch, I kept her spells REAL short. They had to be included, but the last thing I wanted to do was break the rhythm of the prose and irritate a reader the way I get irritated. I think it's the same with songs (your own) or poetry--remember the importance of pacing.

I think this is one of those things that are either loved or hated. Personally, I hate poems and lyrics in fiction, unless they're very, very short and obviously relevant. (Say, the Donald Justice poems from Irving's "Hotel New Hampshire", which were just lovely, brief flourishes.) I even stuck four whole lines of poetry in my own WIP, when the MC buys a book and reads one poem, because it's short and it's foreshadowing.

The high fantasy trogs through verse after verse of backstory? No thank you. I'll skip it. I'd rather not know.

Yet there are fen-singers galore at conventions and meetups who actually love that sort of thing.

Just my two cents as a reader...

I cringe whenever I see poetry/lyrics in novels, I then read the first line, and 99% of the time I skip to where it ends and prose returns.

I have yet to discover whether this is because most novelists write really bad poetry or because I just dislike reading it. Either way, it's a frustrating experience for me and makes me far less likely to return to the author.

So please, PLEASE make sure the poem/lyrics is both outstanding and necessary before forcing it on unsuspecting readers. We pick up your novel for the story, remember?

Judging from the comments just ahead of mine, looks like you'll need to start administering comments. Too bad one person has to ruin things for everyone else.

Anyway--about music. I agree that if I'm reading a book and there's a song being sung, original or not, if I don't know the music, I don't even bother reading the passage. As a writer, I find this tricky, though. My Muse is a wannabe rock star, so it's really hard for me not to write the songs that mean so much to me as I'm writing a scene into the text.

I'm finishing up "speed revisions" for my editor, who is rushing my YA novel to production for a September release, and one of her requests was that I pull most of the music. Some songs spark dialogue and couldn't be pulled without rewriting entire chapters, so they stayed. But the rest are gone. I know this is a good thing for my future readers, but my Muse is in tears. :(

Interesting subject. On a similar note, I made the decision to add illustration to my YA novel. The main character in the novel does a lot of referencing to an atlas. I though it would be nice if the reader got to read from the atlas along with the character.

Music? I wouldn't attempt it. Then again, I'm an artist not a musician.

As many of you know I believe strongly that everyone has the right to their opinion and has the right to use this blog as a forum to discuss those opinions. However, I do delete comments that are spam, liable, direct attacks on others, or simple advertisements for other blogs.

The comments deleted today had nothing to do with the blog post I made.

thanks for understanding

jhf

A. S. Byatt's Possesion is a great example of original poetry being integrated into a novel. It's also an amazing book. If you haven't read it already you might want to just to see the treatment of it in the story. It really worked well, I thought.

A. S. Byatt's Possesion is a great example of original poetry being integrated into a novel. It's also an amazing book. If you haven't read it already you might want to just to see the treatment of it in the story. It really worked well, I thought.

How would one know whether rights could be secured without an agent to help them find out? Investigating rights seems like something an author would require an agent do. So if the writer is unpublished and unagented, it seems tricky to pursue.

I have one character reading a piece of a poem to another, as well as a scene in which two characters are watching a movie and what's said by the characters on-screen is relevant to the characters in the novel. It'd be fairly easy to find out if the movie has slipped into public domain (it's a classic), but I don't even know where to start with the poem.

What about quoting an author who's made a statement? Do you have to get permission to quote someone in a novel. I'm thinking about a chapter lead-in, a quotation to set apart a section of the book.

Yeah, I think this is more acceptable in fantasy, thanks to Lord of the Rings.

i agree with you on that question, how do authors and agent feel about writing or publishing songs?

In library school, we were taught (nay, forcefed) copyright, copyright, copyright.

And...since Rock & Roll plays a big role in my WIP, I've thought a lot about this very topic.

Bottom line:
Quoting someone else's lyrics or poetry in your work without permission IS a copyright violation. (Unless it's a work within the public domain).

Therefore, use your own original lyrics or just reference the title of the song or poem.

From copyright.gov:

"Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases." (except for trademarked logos, etc.)

So...don't write, "There must be some kind of way out of here, said the Joker to the Thief."

Instead, write "ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER."

Or take it out completely.

Thanks for clarifying this issue so ambiguously Jessica :)

I have certain portions of my novel where the characters are listening to some music, and it just fits the mood, and so I cite the Artist and song and insert a line or two or lyrics.

Hmm, I wonder if that's the wrong approach to take. But, it does feel right in the moment, and it's not like I go on and on. Mostly, my intent is to plant the song in your head, so you absolutely have to U-tube it or play it in whatever format you've saved, and thus my scene stays in your mind for days and days.

You ever get a song stuck in your head and can't get it out until you find a way to listen to it? Yeah, I'm that kind of writer. Well, I'm the type at work to walk by, tap you in the middle of your back - right between your shoulder blades actually - and walk away after planting an itch you can't scratch.

.......dhole

In THE STAND by Stephen King one of the characters is a rock start and he frequently hums / sings one of his hit songs. It's restrained though...a chorus here, snippet of a verse there. Plus it totally fits the character.

The only actual full poems inside a novel that I enjoyed reading were the ones in Roald Dahl's works. That's because the poems are not only great in their own right, but they are great commentary on the situation in the story.

Other wise, I don't mind a couple of lines here and there - but it's got to be relevant and worth every word you use.

I have included some of my own poems when the context called for it - a character giving a poetry reading - or as a lead-in to a chapter. Since it's all mine, the copyright issue does not arise, just the issue of does-it-work.

This is a really important post, because it's a reminder that even when we're published there's still a lot we have to learn, skills we need to continually improve, and things we have to do that may not be our favorite part of writing. It also reminds me that I've learned to love something I used to hate--revisions. Jessica's got my latest WIP right now for a final read before it goes to my editor. I know she'll find things that she feels will make it better, and even though the book was finished, IMHO, I'll do whatever she suggests because I've learned that her suggestions will take a good story and make it better. And that's why it's called a WIP (work in progress) until it's printed out and scuttling across country to my editor.

(The best part is, while my agent is slaving over my story, I'll be camping in the sierras without Internet. Here's hoping I can survive total Internet deprivation for three whole days...)

As frustrating as it is, leave them be. That way I've got a much better chance of getting published...hehe

On a more serious note, what sort of percentage are these "instant reject" types? (Those that just put the name of the book and that's it, or send a 14 page synopsis, or kick up an almighty stink when you've shown interest, basically taking themselves out of that game in one foul swoop)

Obiously if it's every other one my chances just doubled. ;0)

It's taken me YEARS, and five manuscripts, to learn to write a decent query and synopsis. And just because I think it's decent it doesn't make my product any more salable, but I like to think it does give it a fighting chance. Putting up blinders and refusing to learn would be a red flag for any agent or editor. Who would want to work with someone who doesn't want to improve their product?
I'm with Andrew on this one, but the sad part of this situation is there is always the yahoo who refuses to follow instuctions and manages to get a six-figure deal, while the rest of us work hard and play by the rules.

I was having a conversation about this yesterday with an agent. I don't understand why writers have a hard time writing queries and synopses. To me, that's cake! It's like, I've done the really hard part - I've written and revised the book. Now I get to whittle it down to the nuts and bolts of the story and tell it in a sort of Cliff Notes version. How fun!

Here's my theory: It's like going to the grocery store. You dread the thought of going, but once you're there, it's not so bad. And if the store happens to be Wegman's, it's nirvana.

Here's a great link for anyone struggling with their pitch/query. After I studied this, I found writing my query actually enjoyable!

Now back to the WIP itself...heh...

http://jjdebenedictis.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-to-write-query-letter-pitch-maybe.html

It's kind of funny that someone has the gumption to contact you and say "I can't write [something] to save my life" and then asks you to try to sell his/her writing.

Dear Employer,

I can't write a cover letter or resume to save my life, so instead of learning those skills or asking a friend/colleague/job search expert for help, I'm simply going to expect you to interview me. I'm available next week.

Well.....

I don't know.

How were the pages?

I guess I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I think if you're going to send a submission to an agent, it's polite (and I mean that in the sense of considerate, as well as professional) to try to comply with their requests. If they want a query in order to consider working with you, I would send a query. If you want to work with them. So, I would consider that query to be rather rude - although perhaps unintentially so.

On the other hand, I think I've been fairly vocal in my dislike of the query letter. And I do think a writer can write a good book and not be able to write a decent query, so in that sense, it's possible the author here is being honest, not lazy.

Also, I believe you work hard, Jessica, but you do all the revisions and letters in order to make a sale. So, I don't think it would be easier to submit to an editor without doing all that, because your chances of selling would be lower.

So, I guess I feel that if an author wants an agent, they really need to play by the agent's rules. If they can't write a synopisis, they can hire someone who can do it for them.

On the other hand, one of the best things about the wave of the future, e-publishing and self-publishing, is that query letters won't always be necessary.

Wow. I can't believe that a writer would say to you, "I can't write." Thanks for the information. I have learned so much since stumbling upon this site!

I find that so strange. I love to write. But i also love to edit, and to revise and re-write. I had a lot of fun working on my query. All of it is just another form of writing, right?

Mira:

In a perfect world there wouldn't be such a thing as a query. Unfortunately, no one can go through 100 submissions a day.

Why?

Firstly, if you send 3 sample pages & no query you're instantly multiplying reading time for the agent by a factor between 3-6 (assuming a normal query is between half a page and a page) If 100 query letters took 3 hours, you're now looking at 9-18 hours a day.....I'm sure you can do the maths.

Secondly, Where the argument is a query letter gives great plot and energy but may not translate into great writing, a well written first 3 pages may not translate into a gripping plot. You need both to get the overarching plot and conflict from the query letter, and a short sample of writing as a quick assessment if the plot hits all the right buttons. Even if you reverse the priorities (good writing craft over appealing plot) and read the sample pages first, you're still going to need a synopsis afterwards to see if the stories' going anywhere.

It's a flawed system, I agree, but, like democracy, it's the best we've got until something new comes up.

Word verification - Pants: How cool is that????

Jessica,
Your comparing the query letter to cover art and the back cover teaser finally got through to me. I totally relate to that. The cover art, title, and description (and I'm not talking about author blurbs here-they do nothing for me) are what get me interested in picking up a book. Then I read the first few lines to see what sort of voice it's written in. I INVARIABLY choose books this way.
As for writing queries and synopses, I am SOOO intimidated by them. But, it is, as you said, just one aspect of a job (being a writer who wishes to be published). I've always known this, fight against it in my head, but realize I need to grow up and act like an adult with a real job. I feel the same way about promoting. I really just want to write (books, not queries :)) but I know I don't have that luxury. So I have done promotion and it turned out to be fun (and I learned new skills along the way, which is ALWAYS a good thing).
Thank you.

Oh shoot. I just logged on to delete my comment. I have a tendency to leap headfirst into any fray, and if one isn't happening, I apparently don't mind starting one. I'm trying to be choosier about my leaping.....But then Andrew responded.

I have yet to find an agent who doesn't like the query, so I think this is a losing battle.

But, I'll respond to Andrew - Andrew, you're right. A synposis is helpful for an agent. But you could accomplish that easily in two or three lines in a form attached to the query, rather than a whole business letter.

The reason I dislike the query so much is I think it wastes huge amounts of everyone's time, is completely irrelevant to the actual writing, distracts from the actual writing, causes good writing to be passed over,
and is just basically an irritating thing to write.

It also sets the wrong tone for the agent/client relationship. Agents are not employers. They are professionals hired to do a service. You don't send a letter querying a lawyer, doctor, accountant, or other professional asking you to take you on as a client. They may not accept you, but there isn't this intense power imbalance. The query letter sets up a very different dynamic altogether.

Mira,

I think our cheering squad is a little bummed today. ;-) You're always our energy-booster, girlfriend! If you wanna shoot me a line (just don't shoot me), go over to AbsoluteWrite forums and PM "L.C. Blackwell"

We can't have you down and cranky, it's not good for our morale. :-)

Lucy

Wordver: cobogric

Sounds sort of trollish, I think. Fantasy languages, anyone?

Lucy - thanks. :)

So, I AM sounding irritable?

I know, whenever I do this, people always say I'm torpedoing my career because I'm being outspoken, and evidentally this business engages in the utterly dispicable practice of black-listing.

Well, whatever.

I'm not even sure I can write a book. And if I do, and I'm blacklisted, I'll find someone who doesn't read blogs or use a psyduenm (I can't spell psydoemenen.) or self-publish or whatever.

I'm tired, and I hate queries.

Okay, well before I torpedo my career any further, I'm going to go take a nap.

Thanks for the opportunity to talk about this.

I think Andrew is spot on, and that's exactly how I have approached querying. In my last round, I queried 21 agents, three of whom were using submission forms. What went on those forms was the same information, word for word, that was on the traditional query letter that went to the others. Of those 21, 12 requested manuscripts, and two those were form submissions. To me, it's no different.

Mira,

Yes, you're cranky. Yes, we love you anyway. No, your career is not dead.

Go sleep. :-)

Lucy

Mira,

You're right I spent months perfecting my query. (I should say trying to perfect it,; I haven't tested it yet.) I wrote the synopsis in one day. It just flowed out. I am totally sure that there are really rotten queries that belong to excellent writers, and vice versa. I fought the query system right beside you and some before you, BUT I am finally starting to get the need for it. It takes talent to make a query sing. I am 100% positive that agents are missing out on good books that are written by bad query writers, but it makes sense that you have a better shot at a good book if someone is talented at writing their query. If you read Guide to Literary Agents blog you will find examples of queries that were successful. Not a one of them have been perfect IMO. I think both you and I let the query terrify us, needlessly. You are very talented at writing and have a wonderful voice (far more so than I and a lot of others that post); stop worrying.

PS Mira, you can also check out successful queries on Query Tracker on their home page under the success stories link. They are not perfect; trust me.

A-HA!,....I have cracked the query code....put that in your Dan Brown pipe and smoke it....=0)

Seriously though, I'm the same with cover letters for jobs (and I've had quite a few) most of the time simple, and strong does wonders....to be honest people only notice the bits around the core information when it's showy, utter tripe or....

Hang on I have an analogy.....wait for it...

The language, wording, whatever, that binds what would be simply fields on a form, are like dialogue tags.

Most of the time you don't even notice they are there, you just scan for the info and move on to the good bit. Too flashy, they stick out and annoy. Omit them all together, you're not sure exactly who's saying what. Stick to simple and confident and they just look....'right'. Granted every now and then someone pulls out a flashy doozy, but that's the least of your worries...Agents will want to read about your plot, not the naff patter around the edges

Little secret: 99% of the time we skim the query letter to get to that brief synopsis that you would've plugged into a form.

I always thought that the primary aversion to query letters was trying to compose those few sentences that describe your book. Is that not the case?

Mira, you said, "I'm not even sure I can write a book"

Well, that sorta explains why you're so adverse to writing a query. I'm here to tell you not to be afraid, because once the book is complete, or almost complete, your query will write itself.

Have you ever gone to a movie without knowing what its about?
Would you ever? Well, why would an agent take on a book (unless you're a celebrity or some other name that can generate sales)without knowing the genre, word count, hook and whether or not the author has a compelling voice?

Each query I write has my voice, because a part of me is in the manuscript. If I don't know the ins and outs of my own work, how can anyone else know? but more importantly, why would they need to care?

That's what you're going to show them in your query, why they certainly do need to care.

The query helps me sell my work, or bring it home as I like to say. You only get five to maybe ten pages to get a shot at convincing an agent with your writing. If they can see from the query that your writing is good, but your whole story is damn good, you have a better shot at getting published. I don't fear the query, I welcome it. Because I feel I'm that good. And after you finish your book, you may feel the same way too.

Remember too, that the query shows just how likely you are to be someone an agent would like to work with. Having an opinion is fine, but I doubt even you would want to challenge your agent every day on why you have to attend a book signing, or why you need to come up with a blurb, or why you need to do your own marketing, or why do you need to have a website...I think you get what I'm saying. Agents aren't likely to re-invent the wheel for writers, though sometimes if you're very clever (like the guy who tweeted his manuscript on the French Revolution and got a book deal) you can skip the query. But when crowds want to see you explain your work, and you can't sum it up or make it sound tempting enough for them to buy it, then why should they? Because in your query, that's one of the things you're doing, explaining to the agent what sets your book apart from everyone else's, and why your voice is THE VOICE. Okay, I'll stop now. Sorry this is so long winded.

Mythicagirl,

I think you just proved Mira's point with this line "Because in your query, that's one of the things you're doing, explaining to the agent what sets your book apart from everyone else's, and why your voice is THE VOICE." That was the part I found near impossible to do in my query letter, the part that freaked me out. We keep reading things like that, and it fries our brains to think about getting that into a short paragraph.

Kim,

It terrifies us, because everyone makes such a big deal about the qualities they want in it (not just agents, but help-sites also). It makes it very hard to relax and just write it. Then you get everyone's different rules thrown in, and we go psycho. To top it off, I have heard a lot of writers detail their letters for a specific agent only to find out they are no longer with that agency (which the online system eliminates some of). It's just a scary scary process to think you could be kicked out of for a slip in your query.

Very lively conversation! I love it when people are free and in fact encouraged to have a debate, voicing all sides of the argument like this.
This is the first time I've been so engaged with people in the comment line actually hearing and responding to each other. Probably because I avoid them, feeling that almost everything that goes out is sucked into nothingness, not read or responded to, like the cold shoulder so many agents have resorted to now days.

This line definitely has a personality!

Hi Anon 3:02,

If this is your first novel, I understand your fear.

I just want you to be aware that no one's query is ever perfect - however I have read some that were so concise and mind blowing on a few blogs that I just knew the author would get signed and published and I was so wishing I could craft like that. So what did I do? I learned from them. There are samples out there, guides to follow and adapt to your own style.

You know what? Fear can be a good motivator. It can make you write five queries or more until you get it right on the tenth, or twenty fifth, and so on.

Your query can be richly nuanced or brash enough to make an agent laugh out loud. Examples of queries that hooked agents can be found here: http://www.guidetoliteraryagents.com/blog/
There’s also Rick Daley’s Query slush pile site: http://openquery.blogspot.com/
And if you’re really adventurous, there’s Janet Reid’s Query Shark: http://www.queryshark.blogspot.com/

I’ve written queries in the first person of the character(s), I’ve written them carefree, I’ve written them serious, all to get that one closest to what I felt was a good representation of my voice and tale. What I found is as I pushed myself, there was a passage where I’d done myself proud (when its really good, I've even taken a part out of a query to place into my manuscript). Now, of course you’ll want to do the research and submit to an agent who best fits your work. But even if you don’t believe you can write a masterful query, don’t fret. The more you write them, the better you’ll get. You may be pretty good at writing a query, only you just don’t realize it until an agent finally says, “Send me the partial/manuscript.”

Kim,
My fear about queries is that I'll have spent a year or more on a novel and have polished it to the point where I can't see what else I can do to make it better, I think it's great, would be bought if read, etc, but no one will ever read it unless I put JUST THE RIGHT thing in my query letter. I come up with ideas, write the letter, and then think, "Oh, no! What if that isn't it?" Then I start again . . .

Trying not to get drawn into this again, but can't resist: I have been embroiled in the process of getting published for 10 years, I have attended conferences with agents on panels, read hundreds of agent blog posts, talked to dozens of agents personally (including the one who represents me), written dozens of queries and read hundreds, sympathized with the real or perceived struggles of thousands of writers, and I have never heard or read an agent say "I rejected that query because it wasn't obsequious enough."

Write a query that makes your book sound irresistible. Include the title, word count, and genre. Address it to a specific agent. For a teeny tiny boost of extra credit, include one sentence telling them why you're submitting to them. Anything beyond that, you're making it harder than it needs to be.

Mira,

This is for you :)

YA Novel I just made up:
They told her she asked too many questions. But that's because they didn’t have the answers.
So Mira was forced into fearful silence, until she finally spoke up for the one person who mattered most. Herself. In my 65,000 word YA urban fantasy QUERY, a teen challenges a system of obedience through submission, where family members and dissenters routinely disappear-

This is as far as I got, but I just wanted you to know you do have a query voice. It’s questioning, its sincere, it’s authentic. Don’t lose it, just use it well (I'm also not saying you're a teen. You may not be, I just used the YA genre as an example since first person works well in that genre, and also it's an age where teens can identify with others questioning social norms, so if you could channel your inquisitive angst into writing for teens, you never know...)

I think it all comes back to Jessica's point that she's repeated time and again: "There are no rules." There seems to be some resentment toward agents for lending tips/advice on writing a better query. The advice sometimes conflicts, requires a lot of extra effort, etc.... I think, however, that the problem lies more in how the reader interprets those blogs, articles, etc. I think it's often taken as gospel. "You must have this, you must do that..." Truly, they're just suggestions. And agents offer them in response to the numerous requests and questions we receive time and time again.

A query isn't like a recipe. The whole thing isn't ruined because you forgot the magic ingredient. If you've written a compelling, thoughtful book, I'm confident you can relay that in a letter. Is that letter going to be the example held up in query letter workshops as "perfect"? Probably not. But it doesn't need to be in order to garner a request.

Thing is, most of the novelists who say they can't summarize their work have that problem because there's a problem with the work itself.

Start with a 1-setence description. then do a 1 paragraph. Then 1 page. then 3-pages.

If you can't do it...you suck! Just kidding--ask yourself, why not?

Every single movie ever made is summed up in 1 sentence on the back of a Netflix envelope. Obvisouly, summarizing long stories can be done.

The writers who fuss over this don't fully understand what storytelling is.

A carpenter might not be expected to be able to draw you a picture of the finished house he's working on (he's used to pounding nails on unfinished beams)--but the architect damn well better be able to! As the writer, you're the architect! Not to be able to summarize the novel is to be like an architect who says, "I can picture the whole finished house in my head, but I can't actually draw it out for you."

Go big or go home, losers!

"Guess who definitely doesn't give a damn about queries: readers, the people making the business turn."

What are those 1-paragraph descriptions on the back covers? Um, the same thing you see in a query, minus the business letter content. So readers obviously DO care about book summaries--in fact, that's how many readers make their minds up about what to buy!

There's no escaping the art of the short form, people.

How do you think a lot of multi-book deals are made? Outlines, summaries, sample chapters. Only newbs have to write the full book out before they shop it. Once you've proven yourself, a good summary can bring a sale.

So keep saying "I can't summarize my 450 page novel into 1 page!" and make youself look like a dork. Because the key phrase in that sentence is simply, "I can't."

Kim,

The problem is we see agents as gods in the beginning, at least until we gain confidence. So naturally your word is law. It takes a while to believe our work is good enough to hand over to a god. Then finally a light shines down from the heavens, and we realize 'Ahh. These aren't codes, they're more like guidlines.'

"The problem is we see agents as gods in the beginning..."

Another Misconception common to Newbs. Agents are salespeople, not Gods! They all fight over the few unrepresented commercially salable manuscripts like dogs over a found piece of meat! Some writers don't even use agents, while others don't get one until later in their careers until they've sold enough copies that the agents come to them.

Agents are dying to uncover salable material. It's just that most of it happens not to be salable, so when newbs hear that they "picked" one, they think of it as the agent having blessed a particular ms., but in reality, they just happened to find something they think they can sell.

Mira, this is for you:

here is how to learn how to write a commercially lviable summary of a novel:

You must have a novel you've read sitting arouond somewhere at home. Think of one you liked and don't go look at the actual book just yet. Now write your own version of the jacket copy on the back cover. Do your absolute best, as if it were your own story you're writing a summary for. Then, when you're sure you've captured the essence, tone and spirit of that story in a concise, commercially salable manner, go read the actual jacket copy. How does it compare to your version?

Then pick another book and repeat the process. Do this, dozens of times perhaps, until you're confident that you can do it for our own, original work.

I guarantee you it will make you a much more savvy writer, not just another genre wannabe tweeting about the mundane details of their perpetual "WIP."

After a while, you might even write these jacket copy style sumamries BEFORE you begin the first draft, just to have tomething to select from, in case your publisher wants new ideas. You can always outline them later. Then, writing a first draft is just another step in the process, just a matter of pulling a story idea off the hook and writing it down. that's what I do. First drafts are just a small part of the overall process. Maybe 3 months. Again, this is for genre fic, not literary.

Good luck.

Mira,

I understand where you're coming from. I obsessed for MONTHS over my query letter. Shed actual tears because of all of the conflicting blogs I was reading, and I despaired of ever finding an agent because I couldn't write a "correct" query.

I tried writing queries that were "obsequious" and tried to sell my book as THE ONE. All of them resulted in form rejections.

*cue more tears and hair pulling*

I took a few months off to cool down (and get married) and when I came back to it, I said to hell with it all. I opened with a quirky tagline (it was actually a discarded line from the book), gave a quick synopsis of the book, then listed genre, word count, and all that mishmash.

Within 48 hours of sending it out to several agents, all of them requested partials. And I have had two requests for the full.

I think my point is that you don't need to kiss anybody's ass. You don't need to be obsequious. You don't even need it to be in the voice of your story.

Just be yourself. I've read your posts on several different agent blogs and you have a definite voice that shines through in your writing. You're funny and smart. Don't despair.

*virtual hugs*

Great post, Jessica! I "shop" for books the same way you do in my TBR piles :)

I don't know anyone who LOVES writing query letters et al, but I also don't know anyone who doesn't understand the need for them! Part of the job.

As much as I struggle with queries and synopses, they're just part of the process. And I know half the struggle is just stress.

Oddly though, I have been having the same thought with manuscripts I've been critiquing. A reader would have cover art and the back blurb to cue them in, but as a critiquer, all I have is the actual text, so there's a real push to understand what type of book I'm reading. I may start including a "back cover" for my own manuscripts when sent to critiquers.

Jessica, thank you for this post. I haven't published a novel yet, but I am so tired of reading posts by writers who are angry about the query system.

Listen up wanna-be novelists, if you want to publish your book, you have to figure out a way to describe it. Why is that so hard? If you can't describe it, how are you going to do an interview in the New York Times? Go on Oprah? Or even worse (gulp) explain it to your mother?

Plus, by asking an agent to take your work, you're asking them to invest in YOU. You want to be respected as a writer. You should respect their expertise in publishing. That includes following directions and giving them the material that they need to assess whether the two of you would be a good match.

I think that for many writers, the query becomes a talisman for their fear of failure. It's much easier to blame the system (the evil query) than to see the flaws or limitations of our work.

Reading the laments concerning the query letter, I can no longer remain quietly lurking.

Here's my writing history since graduating with a Bachelor's degree, and please note that each writing task requires a DIFFERENT skill set:

Computer Consultant (8 and a half years)
- Technical manuals
- Project proposals

Law Student (3 years)
-Legal Essays

Probate Attorney (8 years)
- Letters to clients
- Memoranda of Law
- Motions
(And again please note, I dealt with judges in fifty different counties in Texas. Each one wanted something different.)

Magazine Columnist (2 years)
- 1.5-2K-word essay per issue on legal issue facing law enforcement officers

Wannabe Novelist (um, we won't go into the years on that one)
- Phone call from crit partner while I was flat on my back with the flu. Had to help her redraft the back cover blurb for her first book.

A query is not that big of a deal. If my 9-yr-old son can write a game proposal to Hasbro, then y'all can write a query. There's plenty of good websites and classes out there that can help you.

P.S. Despite the good results, I DON'T recommend trying to draft anything while high on Tylenol Cold & Flu.

Love your firefighter analogy, Jessica! Speaking as a literary agent who's married to a firefighter, I think the comparison is dead-on. My hubby loves to fight fires more than anything, but spends the majority of his time responding to complaints of chest pain, minor traffic accidents, and like you said, rescuing people from their suicide attempts. He actually likes those calls because he loves helping people. But you'd be amazed how much time is spent behind the scenes in things like constant TRAINING and equipment maintenance. Those are the things he doesn't love, but he HAS to do them, or neither he nor the equipment will be ready when the important stuff happens.

There is a direct analogy between that, and working on those queries, synopses, blurbs, etc.

Writers who have a hard time with them need to realize that when they have a publishing contract, they are going to be asked to summarize, pitch, and describe their book many, many times in different ways and for different purposes, mostly for marketing. They will need to speak briefly but eloquently about their book at cocktail parties and Christmas gatherings. How great to be able to practice this important skill before being published!

Kim:

You said: "Little secret: 99% of the time we skim the query letter to get to that brief synopsis that you would've plugged into a form."

I know.

We all know it.

I don't get it. I see many hidden costs here. Don't agents?

When an agent has asked me to jump, I always say "How high?"
I submit a query, synopsis, revised ms.--whatever they want. But it doesn't seem to matter cuz my ms. seems to be ignored by even the *best* agents (present co. included) cuz they're too busy looking for the next Twilight.
(BTW I'm a published writer/editor, not a novice)

So, I wanted to tweak this.

I'm talking too much, I'm sorry, but people were really nice to me - and I want to thank them.

Lucy - Good to hear I haven't killed my career yet. I'm sure it's just a matter of time. :) I'll look you up.

Anon 2:14 - thanks for the tips! I don't want to write queries, but I'll probably have to, so thanks.:)

Mythicagirl - I really liked your paragraph in the contest. And I appreciate your story. :) Unfortunately, I left teen years behind a long, long time ago. But I act like I'm 12, so it all balances out.

Anon 6:09 - thank you. Great tips, appreciate that you took the time - thank you.

Anaquana - Congratulations on your requests!! And thanks for what you said - I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for the nice things you said about me - that means alot to me. :)

Rachelle, you're too nice to argue with. But I wish you'd reconsider the query too.

So, I promise not to talk very much tomorrow at all. I've totally monopolized, and I really appreciate it.

I do hope people heard some of what I was saying though - thanks for listening regardless.

The first query letter I have ever written was sent to Ms. Lionetti. It took me three days. After reading some of her posts I did my best to send what she was looking for or what I would want to see on the cover of a book. I am like her if the cover doesn't catch my eye I won't open the book. Another thing if I read the first couple of chapters and I am not intrigued I won't finish the book. It is a waste of my time.

Gloria: See now you're being prejudiced against all books with a first page you don't like! What about all the great 400 page books with a brilliant last 399 pages?....haha...Sorry just joking.

It does prove my point though. THE ONLY WAY TO ABSOLUTELY KNOW if a book is enjoyable (given subjectivity) is to read it cover to cover. Anything else leaves it open to a 'what if' statement. However, us as a reader/customer does not have the time or money to read every single book, so we make judgements based on limited information (Blurb, first page, cover art, etc). If you had 1 hour to skim 100 books in a book shop, you'd make snap judgments based on what's given at you. That's roughly how much time an agent has.

Example, If I read that one of the main protagonists is under the age of 12, I put the book back on the shelf. Because I assume something about the content, the use of the character, the realism of the whole thing, is going to fall in line with what I believe. I *should* read the whole thing to make a balanced judgement. I don't because of time.

If you gabble, waffle, misuse words, basically write poorly, an agent is going to *assume* your MS is the same even if the first 5 lines of the attached pages are OK. If you describe a rubbish plot, and agent will *assume* she won't like the plot.

In a perfect world you'd read the whole book, then choose to buy it. In a perfect world an agent would read the whole MS, then choose to represent it.

Good Lord.

Why do some people need to make this so complicated - for themselves and for everyone else?

If you can write a paragraph describing your book and stick it an online form, what in God's name is so horrendously, traumatically difficult about taking that SAME EXACT PARAGRAPH, adding "Dear [Insert Agent Name]" and "Sincerely, [Insert Your Name]," pasting it into an email or onto a Word document, and sending it on its way? What?? If that's the way an agent needs to see it in order to decide whether or not to spend countless hours, days, weeks, months considering your work, WHAT IS THE BIG FREAKING DEAL?? There is no magical alchemy involved in this. If you're a good writer and have a good sense of what your book is about, you'll do fine. If you can't do it, the, trust me, the problem is not with the agent or the query system - and you have no business demanding that the agent waste time reading your pages to come to that same conclusion.

Gah.

I have an agent, and I write queries and synopses for my WIPs all the time. These tools are invaluable. They help me maintain my focus, sharpen my story, and keep my stories and characters on track. They also come in very handy when, as in the case of my last book, the publisher massacres the back-cover and/or catalog copy and you need to swap in something snappy in a hurry.

Stop whining, folks. Write the paragraph.

Anon 6:09,
THANK YOU! What an awesome suggestion.
Another writer once suggested to me (when I said I'd never written a synopsis and was having trouble with it) that I style it like a short story. Tell the same story as in your novel, just do it in short story format. I intend to try it, but have put it off b/c I've never written short stories, only novels, so I really need to learn that skill, too!

Rachelle, you're too nice to argue with. But I wish you'd reconsider the query too.

Mira, I don't quite understand the logic of trying to convince agents that the query system doesn't work, that it wastes their time, etc. Agents will continue to request queries because the system DOES work for them. (And heck, writing queries and synopses works for me because it enables me to evaluate my story elements. Like one other person here mentioned, I write my query and synopsis when I'm still drafting my novel. Of course it's difficult. But so is writing the dang novel.)

I'm also puzzled by your impassioned posts because you state you're not even sure if you can write a book. If you haven't even written a book, why are you so worked up about the query at this stage? You might find it easier to write than you think. And there are tons of online examples and people who can help.

writergrrrl,

Well, agents need writers. Without them, they have no job. So, anything that is bad for writers is also bad for agents.

Even if it's subtle and hidden.

Agents may not agree that the query is bad for writers, but I believe that it is, and I'm trying to convince them.

Thanks for your suggestion about my writing - I'll check out some resources. But regardless of whether I personally can write, I still have strong feelings about the dynamics between agents and writers.

Mira, I read your comments here and over on Nathan's blog.

I'm a little confused as to why you have made the query system your cause celebre. You haven't even finished a book and gone through the query process, so you can't be jaded by it.

I think it's interesting that you didn't comment on that post by Susan, who listed out all of the different types of writing that she's done. Or any of the other posts that suggest that you're making this too hard.

You claim that you want to debate, but I don't think that you actually do. You've already made up your mind that the query system is a big bad hobgoblin.

The bottom line is that the publishing industry is not about YOU. Just because you don't like the query system, the industry isn't going to change. The sooner you realize that, the happier you will be as a writer.

And in case you're wondering. . . No, I'm not an agent, nor do I work for a publishing house. I'm a writer who can see the merits of the query system.

summary? No problem.
writing the book itself? Scary, I'm brand new at it.
Having a clear idea of who my characters are and where I start and stop? getting there. It's the middle...
Explaining the book to my _mother_?

....oh no....

scarier than all the rest of this stuff put together :-)

the Q-sys rules!

How else would I get a FREE story idea evaluation service!

here's how to 2 make it work 4 u:

Write out 1 jacket copy style summary for each novel idea you have. Say you have 3 ideas and are wondering which has the most commercial potential. So write 3 different Q's, each with a different name and use fake titles. Send each 1 out to about 50 agents who handle that genre and are currently accepting subs.

Then, tally the results as they come in. After 3 months, whichever Q got the highest # of requests, that's the one you write!

Then, a year or so later after the agents have forgotten all about your initial testing-the-waters Q, you write the REAL Q using the real title and your real name, and send that one out to the same 50, in waves of 10.

Funny, I found writing, and rewriting, the query letter helped me write a synopsis. I'd been having trouble with it, and decided to focus on the query, and give up on submitting to any agents that required a synopsis.

I didn't realize how vey limiting that philosophy was! Once I sat down to accomplish the job, it felt a lot like writing a short story, and polishing it to fit whatever magazine (or e-zine) I wanted to submit to.

Honestly, I think we all make much more work of the synopsis than it really is. I of course was very guilty of that.

But now I'm glad it done. Because now I'm not afraid of "pitching" the novel to an Agent at a conference. I have an idea of what I need to say.

Thanks for this post Jessica.

.........dhole

CommonSenseWriter,

No, I'm not jaded. I just think the query system is wrong, and as a writer, that's part of what I do. Write about what I think is wrong.

On a thread like this, where tons of people are arguing at once, I sort of developed a policy that I only respond to the ones that address me by name. Otherwise, I'd be completely and totally monopolizing the thread, which I'm trying not to do. So, I really didn't mean to ignore anyone, or imply that their opinion wasn't important.

In terms of debate - I think there are discussions where people explore issues and come to conclusions. Those are really fun. But the debate on this thread, is the kind where people take different stances and then try to convince each other. Those are really fun, too.

So, yes, I've pretty much made up my mind. It's possible I could learn to see the merits of the query system, but I doubt it.

The query system is the point at which the devaluation of the writer in the publishing industry begins. It wastes time, confuses the real issues, sets up an inappropriate power imbalance between agent and client, and most importantly - something we all secretly know - agents don't even really read them. They just make writers do them.

And therein lies the cruz of the problem.

Mira,

You couldn't be more wrong!

Many writers love the query system as it is now. It works.

Selling writing is difficult no matter what acquisition system is in place.

Try this: if you're so convinced that your writing is so ready for public consumption that the ONLY thing holding you back from your adoring readership is the query letter-agent construct, then take the POD route and go direct to Amazon. IF you sell enough copies there, the agents will beat a path to your door.

Whatcha waiting for?

Great advice, Jessica, thanks for the post.

I think it's important that the writer sticks to the POV and the tense. Once you make that decision, you need to ride it out. If you choose present tense, but then litter the story with constant flashbacks, maybe the story doesn't really take place in the present.

If you choose first person, but then provide narrative about other characters that the MC should not know, you are cheating; there is no first-person omniscient (with out getting deeply spiritual).

Like so many aspects of writing, it all boils down to the execution.

I've always wondered about this. I've read books written in both tenses, with of course past being the most popular.
When I wrote the first version of my WIP I wrote it in first person, past tense and then when I rewrote it came out in first person, present tense. It just flowed out that way. I hope it flows for the reader too. Nail bite...

Nicely said. I love books in first person past tense. I've read a present tense one, and I found myself frustrated. Didn't like it as much. Anyway, good luck with your writing!

Do you think it makes a difference what genre you are writing for? There is a book I've read where the tense switched from FP for one viewpoint character to TP for another and alternated from present tense to past tense to show when one was talking about the present or past.

Hank Phillippi Ryan writes in first person present, and her series has done well. But her protagonist is a newscaster, so it's appropriate. I know there are some people who simply will not read anything in present tense, but if it's done well you don't notice--or care.

A Great and Terrible Beauty is written in first person, present tense if you'd like to take a look at a bestseller that uses this. I found it a bit jarring but probably because it is so uncommon. At any rate, something about that book works and the voice is very unique.

I think Rick brings up a great point. It would be hard to pull off a story that isn't chronological in present tense. The only example I can think of is The Sound and The Fury Benjy section and that is the POV of an idiot savant with perfect recall but no sense of time.

Emily Giffin also writes in present tense.

I think it comes down to a combination of voice and execution. What tense is the best choice for your story will hopefully become apparent as you write it and then have it critiqued. You can always experiment by rewiting the opening in a different tense and see how it feels, how it sounds. See if the voice still sings, or sings even better.

Present tense feels to me 'too close'. It almost goes with a Second person narrative (think Goosebumps 'you choose' books or personal erotica).

I read a lot of fan fiction, because I'm a geek that way, and notice new writers OFTEN choose first person, so Jessica, I think you're right, that this must be EASIER for a lot of people, but I think it takes a very skilled writer to pull it off and have it not sound amateurish.

You write in whatever tense or POV works best for you. If you write in which doesn't work for you, and the story, it's obvious and the story will bomb. The reader will hurl your book against the wall and never buy again, and she'll tell all her friends not to as well. You need confidence in your telling and that takes knowing you've nailed it.

But, I think this is a common worry when you're not writing just like everyone else in your genre/subgenre. I feel it too because mine is YA, which seems to be almost entirely in First Person POV these days. I only feel confident in deep Third Person Limited POV.

Those writers who like to write in present tense should consider writing YA novels. Unlike adult readers, teens have no problem with that tense, and many first person pov books are actually written in the present tense.

Of course before you jump over to the YA genre, make sure you read tons of books for that age group. Also there's some great writing books geared specifically for writing to the teen market. It's not as easy as some people may think, but it is a lot of fun.

As a writer, I use past tense. As a reader, present tense is a little jarring at first, but I get used to it. I have no problem with third person or first person in both reading and writing.

With viewpoints, I try to use as few as possible, only what is necessary to tell the story. In reading, too, I get frustrated if a PoV change doesn't really add anything. Stick to the main character(s) unless you absolutely can't for whatever reason.

Just my two cents.

Present tense drives me nuts as a reader. I don't care if the book is touted as being brilliant, I can't read it.

YA is dominated by first person narration, it's pretty much the standard, I think, because it is so accessible. But even in YA present tense has a tendency to grate on my nerves. Literally, it makes me nervous.

The thing I really can't stand though, and for some reason this happens a lot in YA, is the second person POV in which the word "you" is used for a couple of paragraphs here and there, even though the rest of the book is in first person. I always think, where in the heck are the editors. Since when is it okay to address the reader directly as "you" when the rest of the book is in first?

I think it takes a true master to pull off a present tense narrative. Too often, I can feel the writer in the background, thinking, "I'm spitting out some real literature here."

I think it depends on the genre, the book, and the writer. I am writing a Civil War narrative nonfiction, a true Cold Mountain, a book of historic adventure and enduring love, in the first person point of view. The book starts off with the main character, Colonel Osgood Vose Tracy, giving a speech at a 25th Gettysburg reunion. He then flashes back to the time he left for war. It reads a bit like Geraldine Brook's book, March, with a couple different viewpoints. Many readers have told me that they like the first person much better than third, that they feel "right there" with Osgood...http://atruecivilwarstoryofcourage.blogspot.com/

As usual, I do my own thing. My women's fiction is in first person present tense and my YA novel is third person. I think you just need to listen for how the story wants to be told and tell it that way. I have no problem reading no matter what the tense is, as long as the story and writing are captivating.

Do whatever serves the story. SIMMER is narrated in first-person present because the narrator changes over the course of the story. By the end of the book, she's changed enough that it wouldn't be the same story if she were looking back on it.

Learn both, use whichever works for the story you're telling. Ditto first and third person.

(One of my favorite books, Alias Grace, alternates between first person past and third person present, and it makes perfect sense for that story, though if you had asked me in the abstract I would have said NEVER DO THAT.)

A great present tense series I've read is Ann Aguirre's scifi Grimspace and Wanderlust.

If you want to read books that work with that tense you should read them.

There's been some great discussion on my blog recently about writing in first person present tense. People had some great thoughts about the pros and cons, and I found it really helpful for organizing my thoughts about it.

Thank you for the advice, Jessica. Great answers, all.

I found a similar post on the Redlines & Deadlines blog:

http://redlinesanddeadlines.blogspot.com/2008/06/writing-in-present.html

(Sorry, I couldn't get the link to work, but there are lots of interesting opinions in the comments.)

I would encourage you to start honing the craft of writing in past tense. Once you master that skill go ahead and try present tense.

I improved most as a writer when I started fluctuating my POVs and tenses, perhaps because present tense comes easiest to me. But I also wrote flash pieces in future and present perfect to intentionally experiment and stretch myself.

Ultimately, I find present tense less awkward for backstory and such, because then I just need to use past tense and not the clumsy past perfect. Ulgh. (And even if you use the option to substitute past for past perfect once you've established that you're talking about something in past perfect, how do you specify where specifically you return to strict past instead of past perfect?)

More lately, I've written a short story in 2nd person POV that got a revision request letter (and the revisions requested were not related to the POV, actually, though it did bring comments of surprise from the editors). It's out on submission now. :)

So what I ask is, why must a novice master third person, past tense before experimenting? What if he's naturally a present tense writer?

I never willingly read a novel in present tense.

When I pick up a book and find it's in the present tense, I put it back. I do the same with dialogue that isn't in quotations. Sorry. It's a total turnoff. It's distracting and it takes me out of the story. I am constantly aware of the writing and the writer.

I will never forget reading the book set in pre-protestant Europe written in 3rd person present tense omnicient. GAH!!! If this is historical fiction, it should not be written in the present tense.

sticking with a tense is most important. Honestly, most present tense work, especially in first person, reads like the minutes of a bad D&D game.

First person can make me forget, as long as that author is completely in the character's head. Charlaine Harris does a good job of not head-jumping. Still, I prefer vastly 3rd person past tense work. I've never even attempted to write fiction in any other way, since I know it takes a master to do it. I'm not there yet. Heck, I still have trouble keeping to limited and not omnicient.

While it is important that a writer grow and learn, pissing off the reader is not a good way to do so.

Thank you Jessica! With this post, (and your wonderful readers' comments, too) you freed me from two months of bang-the-head-on-the-laptop frustration over issues related to both tesne and POV! Now, on the third rewrite of my fourth draft, I think I've finally figured it out. All it took was changing tense and a slight change of POV to create a more effective, efficient and possibly even more shocking narration technique!! Thank you again - Perfect timing.

Thanks so much Ginger!! What a nice surprise on this drizzly Sunday morning!!

Wow- thanks Ginger! this is fun. You've been doing so much wonderful work lately and putting me to shame! Now you've inspired me to post more even if I'm busy. Thanks again!

I agree entirely.

Also: one thing to keep in mind is that all those bestsellers–usually these books that are selling out aren’t their first ones. The writer has proven himself before with past books. It’s part of another “rule”: You’ve got to know the rules before you break them. I’ve beta read a lot of stuff that just was…wrong…and part of that was because I didn’t trust the writer to know the rule.

When Cormac McCarthy doesn’t punctuate his book, I don’t have a problem with it. He’s proven before that he CAN, so when he doesn’t, I know he’s not doing it on purpose. When Joe Schmoe unpublished writer doesn’t, I’m afraid to say I don’t give him the benefit of the doubt.

[...] By Day Writer Balancing work, life and the desire to create « The writing rules Two more rules broken May 30, 2009 Yesterday I wrote about the so-called [...]

Thanks, Beth. I know what you mean. I put up two more broken rules today. Enjoy.

Every once in awhile I like to go through my journal to see what I was doing in this month in years past. Here’s what I wrote on May 29, 2007:

I plan to either not write for [magazine] again or to ask what we can do to make sure I don’t go through another experience like I am right now, when [editor's] boss decided he wanted the article to have a completely different slant — and he wanted me to do it over the holiday weekend and with no extra pay. Ugh.

I must have forgotten those words of wisdom, because this past week, for the first time, I turned down an assignment from this magazine due to the insane number of revisions the editors make me go through. Hey, it only took me two years!

It’s difficult for us freelancers to turn down work because we never know if it’s going to be the last assignment we ever get for the rest of our lives. Even if we have too much work, it’s tempting to squeeze in more, because who knows how long the famine will last once the feast is over?

Some writers say it’s necessary to turn down work that doesn’t fit our goals in order to make room for better opportunities to come through. Well, twenty minutes after I said no to this assignment, I received an e-mail from the owner of a social media marketing firm asking for a meeting to discuss working together. I’ve been wanting to do more work in blogging, Twitter, etc., so this is a great opportunity. Would I have been able to say yes to a half-day meeting if I had been busy turning around the article for the PITA client (which had a short deadline)? I don’t think so.

Next time, I won’t endure two years of PITA-ness before scratching a client from my list.

Have you ever turned down work? WHy did you turn it down? How did it make you feel? Did you get better offers afterward? [lf]

Share This

1. You have the right to say no. An editor asks you to write for exposure? “No.” A source asks to see your article before you turn it in? “No.” A friend keeps calling during your working hours because “you’re always free”? “No.” See how easy it is? You have the right to say no — [...]

My buddy Jennifer Lawler has a great post on her Finding Your Voice blog called 7 Tips for Pitch Sessions with Editors and Agents. If you’re heading to a conference that includes those speed-dating-like pitch sessions, give this blog post a read. [lf]

Share This