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What an original Eye of Sauron you’ve got there, Millar.

So it’s Machine Gun What Dreams May Come to Lord of the Rings. Got it. Still not buying it since it’s just a movie pitch.

Who can afford comics that cost five dollars???!!!!

Four dollars!!!! Still,…..

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“This is not the way readers consume content anymore….. comics do it for no other apparent reason besides inertia.”

Seriously? Are you nuts?

For stories and genres that are well suited for serialization, periodical releases will always always always always sell more copies than an OGN (or whatever). Just look at the sales charts. It’s *obvious*.

If it wasn’t true, then publishers would have switched away from serialization a long long time ago. Have Snyder and Capulo do a BATMAN OGN, and I *guarantee you* it will not sell 100k copies in month #1 — but as a serialization it absolutely will AND THEN ALSO SELL AGAIN in trade later.

I also wish you two would stop pretending that Digital is at all a thing for the *overwhelming* majority of comics.

-B

That was Alex. He says crazy things. There are two of us, you know. And we don’t always agree.

So I don’t want to speak for him: but part of his point is that even serialized storytelling is more and more being dropped in bulk for a binging audience.

And you’re totally missing my larger point. Of course periodical Batman outsells OGN Batman in the world DC has built! Publishing, editorial, creative, production, marketing, DM sales, 3rd-party distribution, 3rd-party retailers ARE ALL GEARED TOWARD the periodical. You don’t need to be a genius to clock periodical dominance.

If you think the traditional means of production and distribution are down to the READER and not, well, tradition, I think you’re crazy.

And I mean two kinds of readers:

1) any potenial customer in the whole world–but especially audience exposed to our characters and our kind of stories in other media.

2) the core audience. They are conditioned to buy periodicals every Wednesday. Publishers are so close to readers. Retailers are even CLOSER. Of course we influence their buying habits; moreover, our effective marketing can influence their hearts and minds.

And I think we see eye-to-eye on things like variant covers and relaunches… why doesn’t M/DC clock the longterm diminishing returns? Can it be anything other than a bad habit, and a gun-shyness regarding course changes?

And you’ll have to take my word: no one loves the DM more than me. But I think we’re too afraid to conclude periodical format SHOULDN’T work. Or at least shouldn’t be dominant. Yes, “SHOULDN’T” prompts questioning what changes could be made to make things better…

But it should also prompt questions as to why it works! There’s a lot we could mine from our own successes for a better understanding of our business. But if you want instead to shrug your shoulders and say ‘Whelp! It works because it works!’ then you are in plentiful company–but unfortunately your net result is ‘standard’ attrition.

Well, we’re more than halfway through an odd-numbered decade; if the twenty-year boom-bust cycle is going to hold it had better hurry up.

The publishers have made a LOT of decisions over the past few years that have led me to think “This is unsustainable; it’ll lead to short-term gains but then things are going to collapse, just like the 1990’s.” It could still happen, of course, but I’m a lot less sure that it will than I was when, say, the New 52 launched.

I definitely think the Big Two are being too conservative, still catering too much to a niche audience, still putting out books that are far too samey (and even the ones that are different still follow the six-issue-arc format and all the plot beats that entails), focusing too much on the *illusion* of change (new #1’s every six months!) and not enough on *actual* change. But, on the other hand, it seems to be working out for them.

Meanwhile, Image is putting out a wide variety of great books; I don’t know if any have been breakout hits beyond the Wednesday crowd (except for Walking Dead and Saga), but I like to think what they’re doing is good for the future of the industry.

Here’s the thing: media is currently changing in a huge way. You cannot deny this. I used to follow weekly television viewer data, and just eight years ago heavily serialized shows like LOST pulled an average of 18 million viewers a week. Nowadays, Supergirl pulls around 7.5 million or so per week and is heralded as a breakout hit. On the largest traditional TV broadcast station. Television executives no longer talk about how well the show holds its audience, but rather how likely it might develop one.

Digital comics have an audience, particularly if you’re Ms. Marvel. Why is that? Why do so many people read this one particular comic digitally, and how can we develop more comics that this new audience might be interested in? I agree, digital comics are not a thing for most DM books right now. Personally, even I don’t read anything digitally. However, clearly, somebody is! Those somebodies may not be your typical Wednesday Warrior, and that is who comics publishers NEED to appeal to to bolster sales.

In all media, you have your entrenched audience. In theory, you have to worry less about appealing to them than you do about pissing them off. As long as you produce the type of story that they like, they’ll keep buying. This is why many mainstream bands and singers will produce stylistically similar records five times and still break sales records. Just look at Adele’s 25. However, you can’t only appeal to those people, because then you end up with a closed ecosystem like the one comics has! You’re draining your limited sphere of influence dry of cash while ignoring the fact that there are billions of fish with currency just as valid as your current catches’.

I have nothing against the Direct Market, or comic book shops. I LOVE comic book shops because they provide a gathering place for a community that rarely has one. However, I also feel like many of these shops have rarely been curated for people like me. I was SHOCKED to read your article, Brian, and find that there are still shops that only sell DC and Marvel. That’s honestly absurd to me. I haven’t been reading comics seriously for that long, but I can safely say that if it weren’t for Image books, I would have never picked up the lifestyle.

The reason why I’m so critical of the way things are done, and so geared towards looking for alternatives, is because I AM a member of that alternative audience. I can count the number of floppies I am actively excited to read month to month on my hands. Yet, that doesn’t mean I don’t like the other dozens of titles I read each month. When I pick them up in trade, I love them. They’re fluid and contain interesting character arcs and stories. I feel like I got a full experience by reading one arc at a time rather than one chapter at a time. I’m not alone. On my Twitter feed, more people are touting the merits of trade waiting. Yes, industry patterns dictate that you /should/ be able to double dip on your single and trade sales, but that’s an inherently parasitic business practice and may well not continue to succeed in the long term.

Why do we think that comics can function differently than all other media forever? Why do we think the same-old, redone, will attract new audiences forever? I’m not saying that history will be on anyone’s side. I’m simply interested in looking for alternatives to what presently exists, because I don’t think comics’ current economic structure is capturing all the potential customers it could be.

Brandon:

” the core audience. They are conditioned to buy periodicals every Wednesday. ”

No. They are conditioned (sort of) to buy COMICS every Wednesday.

The REASON that FAR FAR more buy periodicals than OGNs is the cost factor — $2.99 is an easier bite than $24.99

OGNs are *inherently* more expensive than periodicals, because they have nothing to amortize their costs against.

Things that are more expensive has smaller audiences. It’s a rule, like gravity.

Alexander:

“You cannot deny this. I used to follow weekly television viewer data, and just eight years ago heavily serialized shows like LOST pulled an average of 18 million viewers a week. Nowadays, Supergirl pulls around 7.5 million or so per week and is heralded as a breakout hit. ”

When LOST was on the air, how many scripted television shows were broadcast? How many today? Because, as a viewer, it sure feels like it has trebled..

However, any comparison of a media that costs money for individual purchases vs a media that is either “free” (or is bundled in such a way that any individual component at least *feels* free) is going to be a skewed and flawed one, because getting people to reach into their pocket and take out hard earned cash in exchange for art is always an uphill struggle!

“Digital comics have an audience, particularly if you’re Ms. Marvel.”

I’d personally like something a little more significant than unsourced 2-year old anecdotes, and I’d very much want a relationship for that to *recent* issues of that book (as opposed to when it was a “hot” media story back in 2014) to actually base any analysis on digital velocity around that title, but even if that IS the case for that individual title, that still doesn’t mean that digital is particularly significant for the OVERWHELMING majority of titles. I keep hearing “8-15% of print on average” from source after source after source.

What I DO know is that a reasonably significant number of 20-something new readers have walked in to MY store in 2015 and said things like “Yeah, I was checking out digital, but I wanted to come and get the ‘real’ version” (like, without any prompting!) — given that print in comics is growing, in direct opposition to trends in other media (both of my stores are up double digits), I feel safe in positing that comics are different and that when something is working, changing it just to change it is probably not the wisest of course.

My suggestion is this: stop making the mistake that armchair pundits have been making literally as long as I’ve been in comics (just passed 30 years now), and stop being disdainful of the product (“floppies”) or the customers (“Wednesday Warriors”) and thinking that just because things aren’t CRAZY AMAZEBALLS PERFECT (as *you* specifically envision it) that there’s something fundamentally broken or screwed up about the market. The market has become what it is over time as and in a direct response to the inputs that are applied to it. I certainly think comics are a lot more smart, sane, and straight-forward than the bizarre and corrupt ways that television shows are made, for example; hell, or even prose which seems custom-designed to make sure that the overwhelming number of authors can’t possible make more than minimum wage writing….

I’d encourage you maybe to even have some actual working today store-owners on the show, maybe get a better idea of how things DO work, because, honest to god, if I went through your 1:15 picking out every “well that’s not actually true” statement from the Podcast, I’d probably have a 2000 word essay….

-B

If you’re saying that dominance of the monthly format has more to do with someting discretely inherent in cover price than it has to do with 30+ years of publishers and distributors directing their business efforts in that specific direction, I can’t disagree more. I don’t even know what counter argument I can make… except that I’ve never met a professional in any aspect of the business that puts cover price–absenst buyer habits–in the ultimate position. To be fair: that’s monthly vs everything (OGN, TPB, Digital… library sales, whatever other little stuff).

And I hope I’m not reacting defensively to the “armchair pundit” comment, but rather you assertion that I disdain the DM. When I say “Wednesday Warriors” it’s with brotherly love as well as a bit of self-effacement. Same with Retailers. I’m a member of the tribe. Related: I don’t favor the term floppies… I usually default to calling them “monthlies”–but the context of this episode might have sometimes blocked my brain to that term. And in general: for any time I’m critical of this business, there’s at least five where I publicly cheerlead for it; moreover, I don’t think I’ve ever critiqued retailers or fans without explaining how publishers and creators are also a part of any given problem or lost opportunity.

As for the armchair stuff–we’ll, aren’t we all when it comes to systemic discussions? By your metrics, you’re not qualified to talk about publisher motivations for relaunches or incentive covers or anything else. In case some of the audience doesn’t know, I was a full-time retailer for 10 years. Granted, that ended 10 years ago. But as a 19-year-old I bought a dying store where the only alternative was Chapter 7. The store became one of Diamond’s top 100 accounts, and I left it in great condition. FWIW: from 1995-2005 Alternate Realities in Scarsdale NY sold a lot more comics than Comix Experience in San Francisco (having always read and noted your sales numbers posts).

You’ve got an open invitation to come on Podcorn. And to be more forward, I’ll suggest Alex reach out with an official invite. FWIW: Podcorn’s about discussion; it doesn’t attempt to tell people what to do.

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If someone says ‘off the record’ you should not quote them, even if you leave off their name. off the record means… off the record, as in NOT TO BE IN THE ARTICLE. Poorly written.

JS: Using the “according to an unnamed source” is way better. This link discusses what off the record is.
The real problem: Henry became part of the story…

http://www.prnewswire.com/blog/what-does-off-the-record-really-mean-7093.html

Wayne thank you for the link, as a person who is often interviewed by Press this is my understanding when I tell them off the record (straight from the article you linked!):

Shirley Skeel, a journalist for more than 20 years who reported finance news for papers such as the Daily Mail and The Telegraph in London, explains how this term was similarly understood by journalists in London. “’Off the record’ meant you could not use the information given to you in print,” she said. “However, it might lead you to other sources or a better understanding.”

Yeah this ‘article’ feels much more like a personal blog post, while the story is interesting it really isnt written as a news blog just a personal story.

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I don’t understand what is the big deal of reprinting art and selling it. I mean we pirate movies and television shows. I say it’s the same thing. Those artist just work for those blood sucking corporations. Forget those losers they already got there stinking money.

[…] Amazing Arizona Con 2015: Deadpool ruled & art crooks were called out The Valentines State's first comic con of the year wrapped up over the romantic weekend. Jimmy Jay, Amazing Arizona Comic Con organizer, didn't let a hallmark holiday get in the way of putting on his three-day annual comic book convention on Friday, Feb. Read more on Comics Beat […]

Jerry Marks – so you feel its ok to profit off someone else because you pirate movies and music?
Something you had no involvement in, something that you didn’t create and, if anything, copied if not completely reprinted… just ‘cus they “made their money”? No, they didn’t. If you pirate a movie, you didn’t pay for it which means they didn’t make that money.
SOME “of us” pirate. I also feel this is just a troll comment you make to spark this kind of response.

Maybe the artist in the article painted that piece with his/her own brushes and paints, but it’s clearly Bruce Timm which means, although probably referenced, the “artist” didn’t do anything more than “trace” and color-match the original just to make an easy $200. Although he may or may not “own the original” or a print, that doesn’t give him the right, or a transfer of copyright, without Bruce Timm’s permission.
This “artist” would need a signed document, from Timm, saying he can use the piece as he would like, including selling or reproducing.

But, I’m probably wasting my time ‘cus you feel it’s all fair game.

I am not surprised to read about Luevanos on this article. He was quite a rude person to us at his con when we had a table there last year. He was making excuses to not give contest winners their prize money after winning the kevin eastman art contest. He was absolutely unprofessional and rude to his staff and volunteers right in front us, yelling and cussing them out over something he himself had done. We said we’d never go back to his show…but art thievery did surprise me. And people commenting that its ok to steal someone else’s work to sell it is even worse to me.buying an art piece is just that..buying an art piece. To sell it you must have a signed document where the original artist has signed and agreed that it can be used for reprint and disbursement…if no document is available then it is illegal to sell in any reprinted manor. You can only sell ,if it is the owner of the pieces choice, the original piece bought.

[…] Conventions | Henry Barajas files a thorough report on the Amazing Arizona Comic Con, with lots of photos and an account of his encounters with a dealer who was apparently selling unauthorized reproductions. [The Beat] […]

I must say that I don’t ‘get’ how someone can think it’s okay to reproduce someone else’s art and sell it. Nor can I get how someone can sell prints of their sketches of Batman or other characters at cons. Is there a ‘turn a blind eye’ clause?

Dear Henry,

I just want to make it perfectly clear the MY company (HEROIC FINE ART) was NOT IN ATTENDANCE at this convention. I am the owner and the only one authorized to speak for the company. I think you did a great job at naming the individuals involved in selling this type of unlicensed product. I just want to make sure that everyone knows that I wasn’t in attendance and I don’t even know these people!

I was originally going to try to do this show, but my health (recent knee surgery) prevented me from attending. Apparently these guys took my booth space and didn’t bother to take MY company name down. I have been in business since 1999 and have always taken pride in selling amazing licensed products, as well as working DIRECTLY with amazing artists.

I would like my website name taken off at your convenience, or add a note stating that it was NOT me or my company present, so people don’t associate my reputable business with these jerk-offs.

Thank you for your consideration, and for your work exposing these losers.

Best,
James Fletcher
[email protected]

Kudos to Henry Barajas for writing this. Swipers should be exposed. Piracy is wrong, illegal, and unethical. Additionally, Luevanos sounds uncooperative and unethical as well. I respect other fellow content creators. I’ll proudly put my money into products and providers that I believe in. Thieves and freeloaders ruin the market for everyone. Artists don’t need a corporation to distribute private commissions at cons or wherever. You are taking opportunities directly from these artists when you overpay for pirated work.

The quality has definitely suffered on these since Bruce Timm left (& not everything he did was golden). The scripts are often boorish and predictable without the charm or nobility in early offerings. It almost feels like that awful grim & gritty period in comics when everyone though they were imitating Miller’s Dark Knight without ever understanding why it worked. Why did Timm leave? Does anyone know?

[…] this week, WB Animation announced the voice cast for Batman vs. Robin, the 23rd feature in their DC Universe Animated Film line-up. Today, they […]

hope it’s better than escape from Arkham. It was awful.

$2.99 books should be called $3 books and $3.99 books should be called $4. Using .99 is a foolish practice.

As long as he remembers to keep the part where Batman pisses himself, it’s all good.

[...] news of the next large Scott Snyder/Greg Capullo Bat-title arc: “Batman: Year Zero”. The Beat reports that Year Zero will “take the same kind of approach as Frank Miller’s ‘Year One’ story, [...]

Another origin story/year one? Really? Because there’s still a gnat in Timbuktu who doesn’t know little orphan ‘I shall become a bat’? Feeling sick already, but eurgh.

I agree w/ the above poster. Sick and tired of origins. I already messaged Snyder on fbook to tell him I’m dropping the book.

First we have a “Death OF the Family” in which the family doesn’t die in any sort of way that remotely makes even metaphorical sense.

Now we have a “Zero Year” that is said to simultaneously respect “Year One” and yet totally rewrite history.

I’m done with this. Snyder has written entertaining stuff before, but he can’t just continue to try and have everything both ways, being on the one hand over-reverential to history, while on the other hand giving us anti-climactic retcons and out-of-character moments for no conceivable reason.

Whatever anyone feels about redoing or retelling the origin, eleven issues is WAY too long. $44 for this? A year of keeping up with it? NO, dude, just NO.

Echoing the sentiments here. The calcified little core that hangs on through the thick and the thin of ongoing superhero comics can have this stuff. I’m out.

I follow w/the sentiment uttered here. ANOTHER origin story, dragged out for almost a year?!?

Thanks but NO thanks. I’m bailing too…

Surprised by the opinions here. Love Snyder’s work and the batman stuff so far has been thoroughly engaging. It’s been what 30 years since year one I think it would be interesting to see a new take on his origins.

30 Years since Year One, perhaps, but in the past couple of years we’ve had The Earth One ogn, the Year One animated dvd, and multiple flashbacks to Batman’s early days in both Snyder and Morrison’s Batruns. Push it back to less than a decade ago and we had a hugely successful film, Batman Begins, devoted entirely to his origin. Seems like horse is dead and pretty well-beaten to me.

Finally new ground for DC! I was hoping Snyder would break out with the character great news!

“…no one has told the story of before. We see how Bruce became the Batman, built the cave, faced off with his first super villain …”

lol

I have not read a positive review of this issue, so I’m confused by your premise. Hannibal Tabu hated it: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=43760

CBR gave it 5 out of 5, Ifanboy had it as their pick of the week and IGN gave it 10 out 10.

It’s hard to pick on Snyder’s work because it’s completely passable by today’s standards (which is part of the problem) but Snyder has got to be the most over-hyped talent these days.

It begs proper criticism.

John Warren:

IGN gave it 10/10: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/12/batman-17-review

CBR gave it 5/5: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_review&id=5671

It was good, especially when re-read as a whole. I think the problem, however, revolves around the red herring that involved the dinner platter. Everyone expected a gruesome scene, and didn’t get one. The result was deflationary given the buzz and build up leading to this issue. I think if they’d actually followed through on something horrorific — Alfred’s hand or head on the platter — most people would be saying something different (or critical for different reasons). But overall. this was a very moody and evocative story that read as a love letter to prior Joker tales much as Brubaker’s Cap run was a homage to earlier Cap stories. It was well done I thought, even if the follow through on the “what’s on the plate” question wasn’t what people thought.

I agree, if people got their “blood”, then more praise would be heaped. I thought Jokers character was well played. No, not “gay panic”, but more like a single white female stalker. A, “but I’m your best friend, you don’t need anyone else…” Who hasn’t had those type of people in their life that were just one drop into an ACME vat away from being a Joker.
And for Snyder being the “over hyped talent..” isn’t that title split between Geoff Johns and Brian Bendis?
The point of the story is, it was the death of the family and it wasn’t done as a slaughter house but as a mind F*ck on the family. WHO DOESN’T want to know what Joker was saying to the family before Batman got there.

Wwwwwaiiiit a minute….part of the climax is like that of Seven, only with a plate instead of a box….? Hmmm….

I don’t get why turning the Joker into an absurd Leatherface knock off and going to tired “lets torture the sidekicks” route is praise worthy to begin with.

10/10 gay will read

Didn’t work for me. It’s fairly implausible that a psychotic butcher like the Joker (and I’ll note here that I HATE psychotic butcher Joker) would have all those heroes helpless and not actually harm any of them. The whole finale felt like Snyder spent a lot of time setting up a story that he didn’t know how to pay off.

There were some cool, subtle reveals that happened. But, overall, it was a lot of hype w/little payoff. Just not much of a story and the whole Joker/Batman symbiosis is exhausted. Enough already.

Have to reread the whole thing and see how it holds up. There are a lot of elements that I enjoyed in the final chapter, and I’m glad that Snyder and Capullo didn’t go for the “cheap pop” of killing off Alfred or maiming the Red Hood or any other particularly gruesome parting shots. Maybe it’s “funnier” for the Joker to drive Batman crazy without having actually done what he’s claimed to have done.

I’m not sure that I want to see the return of “Batman’s a jerk and even his friends and family don’t like him or trust him” version of the character. Every time he starts showing signs of humanity or normalcy, we’ve got something like this that sets up another two years of distrust and paranoia.

Well done review. I don’t know why online reviewers were rushing to give the book a perfect when a) there are no perfect stories b) the story being told here (Steve pointed out) isn’t even complete. Snyder has done excellent work on Batman however Death of Family is definitely one of his weakest on the book.

The let down was that everything the Joker promised remained undelivered. No one died (other than all the non-player people in the first two issues and a few policemen and Arkham guards here and there.)

But that’s just classic serial fiction. You can’t kill or maim your star characters.

On the plus side Snyder’s Joker was truly unsettling. Even if it is patently ridiculous that Bruce Wayne would do what Snyder had him do, the flashback scene at the asylum near the end of issue 17 was chilling.

On the REAL plus side Snyder and Cappulo are creating exciting comics. I finished each issue, and was excited to see what happened next. A month to read the next chapter seemed too long! As a jaded older comic book reader that feeling doesn’t happen to me much any more, but I felt it with Death of the Family. So thank you.

I just love that the pay off not that the Joker literally killed the Bat-Family, but that he has done so in a figurative sense.

Also, the last issue shows that everything that the Joker has been doing has been all to set up a joke. Ha.

I’ve read only the Nightwing, Red Hood and the Outlaws, and a couple of Teen Titans chapters of this, plus Batman 17, and I liked Batman 17 more than the other chapters I did read and more than I expected. I’m so tired of these long crossover stories.